Marvel's Civil War

[That Matt Guy]

So issue one has been out for a couple of days, has anyone else been reading? What do you think about it so far? What do you think is going to happen?

Just get the ball rolling here people... I know I'm not the only person here interested in this story.

[ZariusTwo]

So issue one has been out for a couple of days, has anyone else been reading? What do you think about it so far? What do you think is going to happen?.


Joe Quesda is going to end up apologising for it the way he did with "The Other", the way he did with "House Of M", the way he's going to do with "Onslaught Reborn"...

It's not a pretty pattern.

[KROW]

I'll most likely pick this up, considering that my favorite Marvel hero, Spider-Man, is going to be at the forefront of a company-wide storyline.

And I don't care what people will say about this; it's definitely going to be better than Marvel Zombies (I know that's not saying much from a guy who liked the "Spider-Clone" saga, making me one in about 2 or 3 in the world :P )

That all aside, I'd love to hear what people think about Spidey's new costume. I like it; it's nifty that he can mentally change back to his original duds with it. The new abilities are quite cool.

[Anarky]

Civil War definitely is better than Zombies, which was a load of rubbish in retrospecitve. I wouldn't even dream of comparing this to Marvel Zombies.

Anyways, I still hate Peter's new looks and definitely appreciate the retcon-possibility they've already given us. The new costume is too plain for me, especially in the head area. The Spider-Web-pattern we all know was definitely better.

And I wonder what will become of Tony when this is all over.

[ZariusTwo]

I'll most likely pick this up, considering that my favorite Marvel hero, Spider-Man, is going to be at the forefront of a company-wide storyline.

And I don't care what people will say about this; it's definitely going to be better than Marvel Zombies (I know that's not saying much from a guy who liked the "Spider-Clone" saga, making me one in about 2 or 3 in the world :P )

That all aside, I'd love to hear what people think about Spidey's new costume. I like it; it's nifty that he can mentally change back to his original duds with it. The new abilities are quite cool.

Don't get used to it, Joe and JMS are going to get rid of it as soon as this is ove, this is just to symbolise the side Peter will take, and the side he will eventually abandon.

And in relation to the new coustume, it's s*it, and is intended to be s*it beyond it's purpose of being nothing more than a plot point.

As for changing to his civilian clothing with mental powers...big whoop, Superman did that with his electric blue coustume in 1997, another case of sadass effort from a weaker DC at the time.

[KROW]

Don't get used to it, Joe and JMS are going to get rid of it as soon as this is ove, this is just to symbolise the side Peter will take, and the side he will eventually abandon.

And in relation to the new coustume, it's s*it, and is intended to be s*it beyond it's purpose of being nothing more than a plot point.

As for changing to his civilian clothing with mental powers...big whoop, Superman did that with his electric blue coustume in 1997, another case of sadass effort from a weaker DC at the time.
Yeah, I expect his new costume to be short-lived; I doubt that Quesada would make it last past the story. But at least it has a nice scientific origin, whereas Superman's ability was just another in a long list of attributes that made him so farfetched.

[CookSux]

There's probably a reason why Tony is having Spider-Man wear the suit, we'll just have to see. BTW I'm actually liking Civil War, I hope Mark Millar doesn't rush this like how IC was rushed at the end.

[DrSpengler]

So far, the thing I like most about Civil War are all the fake banners fans have been making.

The people in this thread went crazy. Some of em are gold.

http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7339

[Dr. Doom]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/GuardConvoy/Pictures/CW3.jpg

[KROW]

I love the Deadpool one. :lol:

[DrSpengler]

For some reason, I got a kick outta this one:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/bigbot69/civpeach.jpg

[Jester]

I have the books that the picture in the one Dr. Spengler has. It's from the "Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark" series.

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, I've got the collected edition. Fond memories of scarring my childhood forever.

[Jester]

In retrospect though...not so scary...:P

EDIT: Though this pic is...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Jesterangalo/FreakinScary.jpg

[Brodie]

Jesus jumpin christ, Jester, that was unexpected. i was speed scrolling and reading what you had typed right as the image just loaded up at once.

Anyways, on a side note to this Civil War ****. I'm interested. Specifically in the Wolverine series going with it, mostly cause Humberto Ramos is drawing it. I dig my Wolverine, and I ****ing adore Ramos. its like Randal Graves'd say "its like hermaphradidic porn, the best of both worlds."

[Barkworm]

These are awesome:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/JCxxx/Comics/civilwar_dd.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/JCxxx/Comics/capcivilwar.jpg
Could anyone give a short summary on what this is all about?

[Jester]

Basically the New Warriors take on some super villains and the result is cataclysmic. Hundreds die for nothing more than a reality show to put the NW’s on the map. Due to these events the US government, at the behest of citizens, some the family of the victims, draft legislation that says that super-beings that wish to be heroes must be registered and trained as civil servants. This leads to a schism for some of the heroes, some who feel that the legislation would cause their families harm. Cap even confronts S.H.I.E.L.D. Acting Commander Hill, telling her that most of the “street” heroes will probably be on the other side of the new law and that super beings need to above politics, or they become pawns of a government who ends up “telling us who the super-villains are.” In the end, Cap becomes, almost by accident, a figurehead for those heroes who are willing to buck the law.

There you go Barkworm. (Thanks to Anarky fo helping me get the issue)

[ZariusTwo]

Or "Captain SUBURBAN Amercia":P

[R-iZZy]

Yeah, I have a friend who doesn't look at comics at all. He was actually interested in this issue and absolutely loved it. We both pretty much bashed Iron Man after reading this. We're both with Captain America on this. We have another friend who likes to play devil's advocate, so he's sort of siding with Iron Man on this issue.

This series will definitely be one of Marvel's best. Anyway, go Cap!

[Barkworm]

Thanks Jester!

[FireFly]

ok afther rereading the spidey road to civil war and issue 1 i want to know now what is stark up to in the spidey RCW he's against the registerion act payed a old cold war villian to try to kill him and peter and now volnteared to hunt down one of his oldest friend and the argonaut project what iis his angle

[Anarky]

Wow, Noddy, you need to learn about punctuation. Seriously, that was one illegible blurb.

Anyways, Frontline #1 came out on Wednesday and there's three stories in it. Two are more or less about Spider-Man and his dilemma and one's about Stamford.

I liked the first, because it dealt with journalists and reporters which finally shifts the focus away from the heroes and villains and shows us some more real world.

Speedball's story's kinda nonsensical, but I wonder where it will lead.

The last story is damned awesome. That poem's so bloody cool and the last phrase is more than awesome.

Get it, people. You must.

[Brodie]

Wasn't Speedball killed?

[Anarky]

Wasn't Speedball killed?

Apparently, the forcefield surrounding him absorbed the blast he was supposed to take. So he got thrown across the state and landed in some farmer's field where his forcefield finally gave up. He is now powerless, in a hospital and was arrested by S.H.I.E.L.D. That's as far as the second story goes.

The other members of The New Warriors are probably dead though.

[Brodie]

That's pretty cool. Especially about the other New Warriors.

[Dr. Doom]

I remember reading early on that one member survived, so I guess it was Speedball. Frankly, he was the most recognizable of the New Warriors anyways.

[ZariusTwo]

ok afther rereading the spidey road to civil war and issue 1 i want to know now what is stark up to in the spidey RCW he's against the registerion act payed a old cold war villian to try to kill him and peter and now volnteared to hunt down one of his oldest friend and the argonaut project what iis his angle

Stark's a d*ck. Always has been, from the way he;s been written for years, a transistion into a much darker manipulitive role suits him much better. Just as Hal Jordon made a great transistion from GL to Parralax, Tony may finally be able to become the Lex Luthor of the Marvel Universe his storylines have been driving him towards.

[Raph's Girl]

Check it out folks...it's the trailer for Civil War. Basically recaping it for those that don't read every Civil War comic. Also includes a preview of Civil War #2 which comes out on wednesday:
http://www.marvel.com/news/-1.464

[Raven]

So far from what I've been able to read its been pretty good, I love how Mike Millar is writting it, but I dont care for any of the books that have led up to the civil war mini.

[BartAllen]

I wonder how many people will now drop certian comics based on the events of civil war 2.

[Raph's Girl]

Just read Civil War 2....Now thru all this Civil War stuff my main thing is wondering what J. Jonah Jamison's reaction would be to Peter revealing that he's Spider-man...... And what's his reaction? He fainted! :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

Aside from making Iron Man a total manipulitive badass, this is the second most redemable aspect of this storyline (let's see how long this lasts before a random cosmic enforcer like Strange blanks everybodie's memory), Quesdas had been constantly preaching how Spidey needed a fresher direction, and all he had to do was go ahead with a public unmasking in the first place, sparing us "The Other".

[Brodie]

I'm pretty sure MP means Mark Millar.

[R-iZZy]

Wow... can't believe Peter actually revealed to the world that he was Spider-Man. LMFAO@Jameson's response, though. Wow... I'd faint, too.

I dunno what further to say... we're only two issues into this series, and so much has already happened!

[Raph's Girl]

I dunno what further to say... we're only two issues into this series, and so much has already happened!

Technically 3 issues if you count Civil War Frontline.... Also, Thunderbolts #103 has a bit as to the reaction to what Spidey did on a couple pages.

And here's something interesting.. Wikipedia has a list of who's on what side:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_%28comics%29#Taking_Sides

[FireFly]

And people the reason you do not regiser
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/KINGOFNOD5/CivilWar5Cover__scaled_800.jpg
hopefuly............down the line...........Cap give's one frank castle a shield class rail gun to take care of a armored no good pinko commie for putting a friend directly in harm's way.

[Anarky]

And people the reason you do not regiser

hopefuly............down the line...........Cap give's one frank castle a shield class rail gun to take care of a armored no good pinko commie for putting a friend directly in harm's way.

Okay, you used punctuation. Now please try to say that in English. You know, the language we all know, because I don't have a clue what you're trying to tell us. I'm serious.

Okay, so I do smell a retcon here. Also, what annoys me a lot, is that Peter just overdid it. I mean registering is just registering with the government, not with the people. If he was really worried about his identity, why didn't he just tell S.H.I.E.L.D. or whoever is in charge of metahuman registering? He didn't need to go and do it on national TV. Sure, it adds to the drama, but I felt it was terribly unnecessary.

It just felt like you bring a dozen of cows when you say "I'm going to get some milk."

[Brodie]

God I hate what they did to Venom right there. Whats with giving him tiny eyes in the middle of big eyes.

[Dr. Doom]

Is that Mac Gargan? That might be an explanation.

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah, it's Gargan. Brock's supposed to be dead after a suicide, but no body was seen, so it's convieniantly up in the air. I think Gargan makes for a better host, he's more familiar to Spidey's history than Brock initially was (the 90's series got Brock right there also, keeping him as a reccuring character way beforethe Symbiote merged with him)

[Jester]

I wish I knew where to get these, i can't find any comic shops in the near by area.

[FireFly]

Okay, you used punctuation. Now please try to say that in English. You know, the language we all know, because I don't have a clue what you're trying to tell us. I'm serious.

Okay, so I do smell a retcon here. Also, what annoys me a lot, is that Peter just overdid it. I mean registering is just registering with the government, not with the people. If he was really worried about his identity, why didn't he just tell S.H.I.E.L.D. or whoever is in charge of metahuman registering? He didn't need to go and do it on national TV. Sure, it adds to the drama, but I felt it was terribly unnecessary.

It just felt like you bring a dozen of cows when you say "I'm going to get some milk."

Tony wants Peter to be the face of the Registration Act and his right hand man. So he and Peter unmasked pubicly and this is why i don't like the Peter/Tony friendship he's playing peter like a fiddle.

And to answer my perevious post i love tony but i wish that he is harmed badly hopefully by cap or Hulk when he get's back.

[That Matt Guy]

Why the hell is Cable on Cap's side?

[Dr. Doom]

I don't find that suprising in the least.

[ZariusTwo]

OWNED

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://luchins.com/dickery/WF_314.jpg&imgrefurl=http://typolad.livejournal.com/&h=385&w=519&sz=109&tbnid=AgcGMXaBgN7xaM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=128&hl=en&start=5&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSuperman%2Bdickery%26svnum%3D10%26hl% 3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG


:lol: :lol:

[That Matt Guy]

A lot of really good stuff came out today. Front Line was excellent, I really like what they are doing with Speedball; he is really bearing the brunt of everything.
Also, Firestar quitting was great. I hope we see more heroes simply retire instead of getting involved. Iron Man and SHIELD taking out drunk Prodigy in front of a crowd was great too.

New Avengers really filled in a lot of gaps, showing how Cap and Falcon started their resistance. And FF, wow. Also can't wait for Thor to come back.

[Anarky]

Frontline #2 was indeed kicking ass. I like the Frontline-thing's idea, I mean, showing how the press is involved and what minor characters do... that's what gives it its "Across the whole universe"-thing, I think. I mean, sure, DC had some minor heroes in their crises, but they were just in the back, yelling "Go Superman" and "Yay, Batman!" and then they got killed off or reinstutionalized in sucky crossovers (The battle for Blüdhaven - what a load of junk).

That's why I like CW much more than IC... so far. We still got stuff ahead of us, so it could all turn around.

[BartAllen]

I wish I knew where to get these, i can't find any comic shops in the near by area.
http://csls.diamondcomics.com/

there ya go. that should help.

[Jester]

Yeah, I've used that....I found one....now it's just a matter of asking the owner how much I've missed pertaining to Civil War.

[Anarky]

CW#3 kicked ass... on a really big scale. Especially the last page. But I wonder where Codename Lightning came from. And I must say, I really like this better than Infinite Crisis. Sure, this one's also universe-wide, but seeing how they're handling it, it's way less confusing.

And Tony Stark is such a bastard. I hope he stays that way.

[Raph's Girl]

But I wonder where Codename Lightning came from.

Thor is the god of Thunder and Lightening

[FireFly]

damn now cap's side is greatly underpowered
but i see namor, most of the mutants and the sentry to join up with him along with spidey
and on the new guy whats his name th....tha...thethor somethings up with donald blake he's fighting against the QUOTE UNQUOTE Man who can command the gods and his oath brother herules. but one god is uncounted for............the god of war himself Ares so maybe he will be the one to even things out along with hulk when he gets back.
so far every thing for the war is looking good from the intertrmore in the F4 to wolverine taking on nitro i like this ark better then House of M and Infinte Crisis DC who;)

[Anarky]

Thor is the god of Thunder and LighteningI do know your cousin's job, I wonder where he comes from? An answer would be something like "He came from the mall." or "He just returned from the toilet." or "He took a vacation on a caribbean island." But not what you said. That's like saying "We breathe air." Everybody knows who he is and what he does.

Also I wonder how he fits into all this. Technically, Thor's not american anyways and he's above mortal things like that anyways. So why does he even bother making his extremely cool return here?

[Raph's Girl]

Thor's not american anyways and he's above mortal things like that anyways. So why does he even bother making his extremely cool return here?

He was in the neighborhood. His Hammer fell in America, causing a crater, and tons of people tried to pick it up before Thor, in one of his disguises, re-claimed it.

[That Matt Guy]

Also I wonder how he fits into all this. Technically, Thor's not american anyways and he's above mortal things like that anyways. So why does he even bother making his extremely cool return here?

Maybe because he is friends with Tony Stark, and was persuaded to their side by him and S.H.I.E.L.D.? Any way, Cap's side is horrendously underpowered now.

[Anarky]

Whoo... Frontline 4 and Amazing 534 were simply awesome. It was about damn time Spidey was having doubts about the whole thing. I wonder how he's going to get out of this.

And the Luke Cage thing was beyond awesome. I mean, they've finally taken him from his role as a token black guy saying "Fo sho, Cap, yo!" in every panel he appears in. He kicks a tremendous amount of ass in that.

[Raven]

Looks like well be waiting for awhile for the next ish to come out.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=80636

[That Matt Guy]

Nice! Marvel's big summer 2006 event won't be over until winter 2007. Way to go.

[FireFly]

ok so four came out this last week and i thought it was a good issue and i think tony and reed are taking this whole must stop cap at any cost thing too far. don't beleave me meet the new members of the reg forces




































http://samuron.fwooshnet.com/images/cw4lastpanel.jpg
any questions.

[R-iZZy]

Wow @ the additions made to Stark's team, at the end of ish 4. This war just took a turn for the worst.

[KROW]

Crap. I gotta get my ass to a comic book store. I'm missing out on all this.

[That Matt Guy]

Iron Man is a bad ass.

[Anarky]

You want to see insanity? Here you go:

http://www.cinnamonstars.com/civilwarchecklist.gif

This is a fancreated CW-checklist, including all the tie-ins and miniseries and whatnot.That's 95 comics right there. 95 bloody comic books. What were they thinking. Then add the delays and you completely wreck a quite interesting crossover.

And they announced a miniseres à la "CW - Aftermath". Nice, eh?

[raphael_is_cool]

I'm liking the Punisher War Journal. Oh, how I've missed him.

[Anarky]

Missed Frank? He's been around for about three years now. He's got this wicked ongoing on Marvel Max, written by Garth Ennis. It's truly awesome, although he made one bad move lately which I thought was just stupid. But the whole series is awesome.

[raphael_is_cool]

I'd never seen that anywhere near me. Curse them.

[That Matt Guy]

Most of those tie-in issues suck.

[R-iZZy]

LMAO @ Punisher during issue six. Dude is a f'n screwloose.

[Anarky]

The finale is delayed. F*** this. Seriously. No matter how interesting the story might be, these delays are killing it.

[That Matt Guy]

Because of this delay, extra pages are being added to the issue. I'm guessing splash pages of Iron Man beating Cap into the ground.

[Anarky]

I couldn't care less about bloody extra pages. I want this whole thing to be over. You know, like an ending.

[That Matt Guy]

Well you can be grateful it isn't being rushed.

[That Matt Guy]

This is it... we finally get the end and this whole mess will be over with. My guess is Iron Man is about to pound Cap into the ground, then at the last minute Cap gives up.

[Raven]

I havent really been interest in this at all, but the out come should be interesting considering the picture that was leaked a while back of Cap in iron man armor with red, white and blue armor.

[Anarky]

Finally, the end is here... until the "Civil War - Aftermath"-titles start next week. But we're done with CW per se. Today it ends. Hoorah. I remember when they went "Oh, we'll begin in early summer and we'll be done by Christmas", screw you, Marvel.

And I'm being told CW is actually quite good if you don't have to wait for every single issue.

It's over. What a piece of crap.

I mean, what were they thinking when... Cap went "Oh, ****, I'm wrong" in the middle of THE fight of the century and gave up? Screw this!

[That Matt Guy]

Just read the ish, and yeah I saw it coming a mile away. Cap arrested.
All in all this was a good crossover, but not the "earth-shattering omg the Marvel U will never be the same" gibberish it was promoted as. At least now I can look forward to two Avengers titles each month.

[Raven]

Your kidding right? Theres no way they would end there biggest series like that!


I really hope they pull off something big now, because that just sounds extremly lame.


EDIT: By any chance what did all happen?

[Anarky]

First, everyone fights. Then the Atlanteans appear out of nowhere and disappear into said nowhere again within one page. And in the end, Cap's side is winning. Then Captain America is tackled by a cop, a firefighter, a mailman and a nurse (I wish I was kidding) and goes "Oh, I'm wrong. Stand down, troops" in the middle of winning this whole mess. He gives up and is arrested. At this point, we're about halfway through the issue. What follows is Reed Richards mentionning how great he is in a letter to Susan. Oh, and he apologizes somewhere too. Hank Pym gets the "Man of the Year" award for absolutely nothing at all and every hero gets an amnesty. Despite this amnesty, Captain America is still in prison for no reason at all.

Oh, and Clone Thor gets hammered on the head by Hercules.

And that's it... until the Epilogue books start next week. Hooray.

[That Matt Guy]

And then Hulk and Thor come out and f*** all their s*** up. Not really, but I wish.

[Mecha Cow]

I havent really been interest in this at all, but the out come should be interesting considering the picture that was leaked a while back of Cap in iron man armor with red, white and blue armor.
I didn't read Civil War so I don't know all that's going down, but I saw the picture you're referring to, and it was a photoshop. Here (http://comicsnewsi.net//g/albums/Marvel/Civil_War/Action/CW-Initiative.jpg)'s the original.

[ZariusTwo]

Wow.

Marvel sure had balls going with that ending, but "World War Hulk" is the true finale for this storyline, so it's not like anything that ended here can't be turned around

How much would they have sold if

Cap won

Afterwards anyway?

[Raven]

I didn't read Civil War so I don't know all that's going down, but I saw the picture you're referring to, and it was a photoshop. Here (http://comicsnewsi.net//g/albums/Marvel/Civil_War/Action/CW-Initiative.jpg)'s the original.

Yeah I just found that image today, kind of pisses me off a little. I know its all about marketing and trying to toy with the consumer but it really is just lame.

[ZariusTwo]

I doubt it. What draws more? The winning side or the side that's totally immorally wrong and will no doubt implode from within if given the oppertunity to run things their way?

Cap won by losing.

[Spawn Guy]

How is Iron Man with Caps sheild diffrent from an image of Batman's cowl and superman's cape draped over Wonder Woman's sword?

[KROW]

Ugh... Not the ending I would have liked, but at least Stark got his ass handed to him. Quite frankly, I found the Spider-Man book's crossover to be more intriguing than the actual CW arc itself.

[R-iZZy]

I enjoyed seeing the Cap and Iron Man fight... but that had to be one of the most uninspired endings I've ever read. WTF.

Cap: Yeah, we're whooping ass. Let's get'em Anti-Registration Team. *gets tackled by regular-ass nobodies* OH NOEZ!! We're fighting and it's wrong. Everything I've ever believed in has become invalid now, and I've realized that in the heat of battle. Arrest me, policemen. Give me the Rodney King treatment while you're at it; I deserve it!

This series had one of the greatest build-ups just to give me one of the most disappointing endings. I guess we'll have great stories to follow now that Pro-Registration's side won.

I have no problem with who won, because I think better stories can come from this (even if I was die-hard for the other side), but that ending was just so bland.

[Anarky]

Thing is, it was never really a debate. Pro had won long before any of CW happened. The law had passed, the whole fight was over. It wasn't going to be like "Oh, yeah, the whole nation was wrong, the americans were wrong, Anti is clearly stronger."

But yeah, the ending sucked big time. Frontline's ending was a bit better though.

[ZariusTwo]

Thing is, it was never really a debate. Pro had won long before any of CW happened. The law had passed, the whole fight was over. It wasn't going to be like "Oh, yeah, the whole nation was wrong, the americans were wrong, Anti is clearly stronger.

And it'll continue. Such is the way of Cap's cause. Already there's fall-out from the whole incident, Ben Urich is researching the reasons made to begin the law, Tony is close to the bottle again because he can't handle running SHIELD, Spidey has taken over from Cap etc.

The Pro-Regs will soon crumble into little more than a meaningless joke whose time is ticking, and I think what just occured in Captain America Issue 25 will catapult those who sided against him into a much clearer realisation of who they have become

[Anarky]

Basically, including recent events in Cap #25, it's safe to say that Marvel Comics isn't really all that much of fan of the United States. There is no way you can like anyone on the government's side, they're so evil. It's a miracle we haven't seen panels where Tony's eating babies with puppy-eye-sauce.

[That Matt Guy]

Basically, including recent events in Cap #25, it's safe to say that Marvel Comics isn't really all that much of fan of the United States. There is no way you can like anyone on the government's side, they're so evil. It's a miracle we haven't seen panels where Tony's eating babies with puppy-eye-sauce.

Um.. did we read the same issue? The government didn't really have anything to do with what happened, it was Red Skull secretly pulling the strings.

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah, for once, Marvel used an ACTUAL comic villain, and one of the best and most overlooked in recent times.

Not to mention there was no "average citzien", or "Carol Danvers/Iron Man/Some random soon-to-be-killed-obscure hero" pulling the trigger, it was Crossbones.

[Anarky]

Um.. did we read the same issue? The government didn't really have anything to do with what happened, it was Red Skull secretly pulling the strings.

Of course it was Red Skull who did it. But look at what they have killed. Look at what he represents and combine that with the fact that during Civil War, the government was the bad guys through and through. And while Joe Q said that "everyone can interpret whatever he wants into the death", everyone with half a working braincell can figure it out. It's not about who pulled the trigger, but about who was shot.

[That Matt Guy]

So disregard all that planning and plot development that's been going on in the Cap book since before Civil War? It's about time the Skull succeeded in killing him.

[Anarky]

Not really, no. Red Skull is behind it, whoohoo, I get that. But look at the editorial side. What does Marvel say with killing him? Joe Q himself said... Quesada said he wanted to readers find their own meaning in Cap's end.

"There is a lot to be read in there. But I'm not one who is going to tell people, this is what you should read into it, because I could look into it and read several different types of messages," he told CNN.

It's blatantly obvious what he wants to say, if you take the act, not the story around it. But lets completely miss the point and rave on and on about Red Skull who isn't even part of my reasoning. Did you know Red Skull was behind it, by the way?

[That Matt Guy]

You are taking it way too seriously. Just because his shirt is a flag makes him the symbol of all American values in comics? And they bump him off, oh lord Marvel hates America now.

[Raven]

So caps finished......how long will it be until he returns?

Really I love comics and all but its things like how death is treated with the constant returning of those that were killed keep coming back, that really pisses me off......

[Brodie]

Some comic had a report about Cap being tucked away, in "a safe place." And thought to be dead.

That might also have been from a webpage, I'm not sure. I got this from other people.

It didnt last long.

[Anarky]

The "in a safe place"-thing Brodie mentioned is from this week's "Civil War: The initiative"-one shot. What's amazing about this book is that it was done by Top Cow Productions. Since when do they make stuff for Marvel? And since when can Ms. Marvel's ass talk? Seriously, half the panels had her butt talking.

[Spawn Guy]

Steve Rogers, we hardly knew ye. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=104091)

[That Matt Guy]

They've done a pretty good job of destroying most of the original Avengers these past few years. Thor, Hawkeye, and now Cap killed off. Scarlet Witch goes nuts, Quicksilver turns evil (again), Tony becomes an huge asshole and then turns into Ultron. I'm just waiting for someone to step on Wasp.

[Spawn Guy]

You forgot Hank Pym and his emo pills. (http://www.capvsbats.com/Parodies/CivilWar06byDH01.htm)