What are your thoughts on old toon Raphael compared to his other incarnations? [Archive]

CyberCubed

04-01-2007, 09:59 PM

Out of all the Turtles in the original cartoon, Raphael's personality was probably tweaked the most from the comics. Although there were definitely episodes here and there where old toon Raph showed his anger, he was more of a wise-cracker and enjoyed making jabs whenever he could.

Now with all the newer versions of Raph that have shown up since then, (the original movie trilogy version of Raph, the 2k3 Raph, the new movie Raph), and as well as compared to Mirage Raph, how do you view the original cartoon version of Raphael?

I still love the guy, as he was my favorite Turtle as a kid, but I still wish his anger showed up a tad more often than a handful of episodes. What are your thoughts on old toon Raph?

Revan

04-01-2007, 10:24 PM

Warhorse

04-01-2007, 10:24 PM

He's still cool, but he would be so owned by the Raph that now takes center stage.

But, his personality back in the old toon wasn't that much different from my own. I get sarcastic from time to time. And OT Raph had moments when he did use his umph to get the upper hand. I remember one scene, in where he is interrogating some bad guy, and he ends up going "either you start talking, or I am going to have to get sarcastic!" while pointing his sai at the guy in a threatening way. Even when Raph has to be kiddied down, he's still so cool!:D

Jester

04-01-2007, 10:32 PM

Raphael was my favorite for that reason...so...don't care he's so diffrent. I like raph either way.

Nightwatcher

04-01-2007, 10:35 PM

I fell in love with old toon Raph for one reason, he made sarcastic comments like me. That and he seemed to be the turtle that was always saving April. I've been watching the old cartoons again and I noticed Raph usually catches April when she falls and whenever she grabs onto one of their shells while they escape somewhere it is Raph's most of the time. So he is the sarcastic ladies man, just like I wanted to be :D.

What the heck happened to that plan.

Rockzero

04-01-2007, 11:12 PM

I liked Raph in the old toon but I definetly like the anger-filled, angst ridden Raph of the other mediums. OT Raph had some great one liners and his sarcasm was fantastic, but yeah, I wish his anger had shown a little more. I agree with Neutrino in that it was great for the target audience, though. Children probably would have accepted him much easier than the other Raph.

iris

04-01-2007, 11:23 PM

I love OT Raph. He's a blast. I don't think it's possible to properly compare him to the other Raphaels. He's almost a different character.

Coola Yagami

04-01-2007, 11:26 PM

I definately see the difference between the OT and every other medium. I think it's best that he is more happy go lucky for the old toon due to the target audience. But I have to say I prefer the movie and mirage version of Raph.

In the old toon, Raph seems too similar to Mikey. I think it's better to have a balance in personalities so all audience members have a turtle they can relate to.

A leader, a tech head, a joker, and a hott head appeals to more people than
A leader, a tech head, and two jokers. IMO

Hmm actually... the joker role went from Raph to Mike. And even then it's different, Mike's a goof-off, Raph was a smartass that even poked fun at his own show. It was more like-

A leader, a tech head, a surfer dude joker and a hot head -2003
A leader, a tech head, a surfer dude, and a sarcastic smartass -80's

I wonder where they came up with the idea of makin Raph the wisecracker instead of Mikey. I know they couldn't have made Raph as pissed and violent as he was in the original comics, but they could have at least made him the 'eager to fight, rush headlong without thinking things through' type. In the old toon, of the 4, Raph seemed the least eager to fight (always with some kind of 'do we have to' wisecrack') unless he was pissed. Oddly enough, one of the episodes I think it was called 'Raphael gets a shrink' or something like that, about him being hit by a 'nice-guy' ray or something and tricked into helping some guy commit crimes, completely revolved around the fact that Raph was the hothead of the bunch.

'Now pretend to be smashing the vending machine'. (exact line?)
*slams mashine* 'With pleasure! This thing just ate my quarter!!' *starts pounding on it'*

Rooish

04-01-2007, 11:36 PM

Man, Raph was hilarious in the old toon. But he was pretty cowardly at times, eh? He was like Rattrap from Beast Wars.

Jo Dawn

04-02-2007, 07:50 AM

weredog

04-02-2007, 09:03 AM

Well, I do prefer new toon/movie Raph to OT Raph. I can certainly identify with New Raph's hotheadedness and tendency to explode ( because I have a vicious temper myself ). In the old show Mikey was my favorite, but nowadays, I prefer Raphael.
Not that I dislike OT Raph though. His sarcasm always amused me, as I'm a bit of a smartass myself. But newer Raph is definately the better of the two.

sdp

04-02-2007, 12:29 PM

He was my favorite as a kid too,

I prefer his sarcastic persona though, the new show makes him out to be more of a "jock" or "i love fights" which makes me not like him as much. His movies (old) interpretations were good in my book as well i liked those.

Revan

04-02-2007, 12:31 PM

Hmm actually... the joker role went from Raph to Mike. And even then it's different, Mike's a goof-off, Raph was a smartass that even poked fun at his own show. It was more like-

A leader, a tech head, a surfer dude joker and a hot head -2003
A leader, a tech head, a surfer dude, and a sarcastic smartass -80's

I agree Raph was more sarcastic and Mikey more "surfer" dude joker. I was just saying that there was no true rebel in the OT the way there is in other mediums. I know there are people who identify with Raph's hot head version.

Time Mistress

04-02-2007, 08:05 PM

I thought it was a weak characterization, to be honest. I didn't really like the OT Raph; I much prefer the new incarnations of him... ANY of them. As a child, the comments got boring after awhile (and trust me, I am plenty sarcastic myself)... But he just never made an impact on me. I didn't like him, but I didn't DISlike him, either. He was just there.

Jo Dawn sums up my feels well, though I'm not a sarcastic kind of person.;) I never much cared for OT Raph, though I like Paulson well enough. OT Raph was my least fave of the four, I just couldn't relate to him. "Too watered down" are the words I'd use to describe him. His sarcasm made him seem too much of a bully at times toward Mikey and I hate bullies. It's one of reasons I prefer the new toon, Mike gives as good as he gets insult wise. Also, as Rooish said OT Raph could seem cowardly too. That is like the the exact opposite of what Raph is supposed to be, so not the Raph I know and love. I like my Raph angry and angsty, foolhearty and hotheaded. After I saw the first movie, Raph went from my least fave to my fave. While I came to apreciate OT Raph after that, (he could be pretty funny) I do have to wonder why they "neutered" his personality so much in the first place.

That was one thing I was worried about when the new toon first appeared. Would they get Raph right this time? As soon as I heard the "teacher's pet"/"ninja dropout" exchange though I knew I had nothing to fear. I always wished they could have made OT Raph more like Archie Raph in the later seasons, like season 4 on. Archie Raph was closest to OT Raph. I could hear Paulson doing his voice when I read the comics but he also had the attitude. I don't hate OT Raph, he's okay. But movie, Mirage, and new toon Raph rock.

Cassidy

04-02-2007, 08:48 PM

I love OT Raph. He's a blast. I don't think it's possible to properly compare him to the other Raphaels. He's almost a different character.
Amen to that. I loved OT Raph back in the day, but he's entirely different from the Raph I've grown to love from the movies and 2k3 series.

I wouldn't trade Raph for the OT Raph for all the tea in China.
Just too watered down for my tastes.

Sariele

04-03-2007, 07:23 AM

He was my favorite as a kid too,

I prefer his sarcastic persona though, the new show makes him out to be more of a "jock" or "i love fights" which makes me not like him as much.
Yay, someone who feels the same as me! So many people seem to identify with hothead Raph, but I have always identified more with smart-arse sarcastic Raph.

Raph is possibly still my fave in the new series (although sometimes I sway more towards Don or Leo when Raph's being a jerk). My ideal Raph would be a healthy balance between OT and NT Raph. :nod:

Gothamite

04-04-2007, 04:01 AM

Although 'Angry Raph' can get quite annoying and repetitive, I do prefer him to the sarcastic joker of the old toons. I do think that he fits well into the format of the old series though, because you have two smart people and two jokers who are more relatable.

04-04-2007, 05:35 AM

I really do prefer the "angry" incarnation of Raph compaired to the Old Toon. The Old Toon Raph was pretty easy going compaired to his other incarnations, which I didn't like at first. Now I like it a bit more, since I see now that the Old Toon focused a bit more on comedy than action. In the wise words of Peter Laird - "It was like comedy with a little bit of action in it".

I love the new toon and movie incarnations of Raph the most since they are true to his Mirage roots. He is angry, quick to act on impulse, moody...I can basically see myself in him. In the Old Toon incarnation...the only thing I had in common with the dude was that we both liked to shoot sarcastic comments (only his were better than mine :P). Some of his smart-ass comments really knocked him down on my favorites list in the Old Toon incarnation, but he still remained my favorite. A Raphael fan will never change his or her ways ;)

Sariele

04-04-2007, 10:20 AM

My ideal Raph would be a healthy balance between OT and NT Raph. :nod:
Yep, quoting my own post, as you do!

Having stated the above, and having just walked in the door from seeing an advanced screening of the new movie (I'm in Australia and it doesn't officially come out til tomorrow), I can now state that 2007-movie Raph is my favourite incarnation. To me, this Raph is exactly as I stated above: a combination of OT and NT Raph. I know some of you may not understand why I think this, but there you go. :)

Hope that if there's a sequel they keep this Raph the way he is.

Uh oh, I think I might be turning into a Raph fangirl! I promised myself it wouldn't come to this!! :lol:

DrSpengler

04-04-2007, 10:54 AM

While I prefer angry crybaby emo Raph as seen in most other incarnations, the old toon Raph was still alright.

I liked him best in the first season, though, where he showed off some of his pent-up anger at least once per episode. Later seasons completely erased that aspect of his character.

Daunt

04-04-2007, 11:05 AM

....I can now state that 2007-movie Raph is my favourite incarnation. To me, this Raph is exactly as I stated above: a combination of OT and NT Raph. I know some of you may not understand why I think this, but there you go. :)

Hope that if there's a sequel they keep this Raph the way he is.

Uh oh, I think I might be turning into a Raph fangirl! I promised myself it wouldn't come to this!! :lol:

I'm so with you there. I loved Raph in this movie so much. I find myself falling prey to the Raphfangirl-bug myself! I did love the old OT Raph a lot and his comic incarnation was also freaking cool....but the 07 movie gets stars for being my fave.

Ava Collier

04-04-2007, 11:47 PM

Uh oh, I think I might be turning into a Raph fangirl! I promised myself it wouldn't come to this!! :lol:

*sigh* I completely sympathize. It's all my best friend's fault! >.<
It's the way she portrays him that made my little Ava fall for him. *sigh2, the sequel*

I never read the comics, because I heard things...and I want to live in my delusion that the boys keep all their body parts, stay together, and Master Splinter is immortal. OT Raphael had his qualities, but out of the ones I know, he's probably my least favorite. (I'm going to assume OT and NT stand for old toon, and new toon respectively. Yeah...I'm smart.) they gave him attitude, but it was the wrong kind. He just wasn't...constipated enough.

I haven't seen the new movie yet. I hurted myself...uhh...NINJA TRAINING! Certainly not sliding on tiles on my way to the bathroom! I hope I won't be dissappointed. From the clips I've been a bad girl and looked at, I doubt that'll happen.

Sariele

04-05-2007, 07:51 AM

I never read the comics, because I heard things...and I want to live in my delusion that the boys keep all their body parts, stay together, and Master Splinter is immortal.
I apologise for being OT (Off Topic, not Old Toon! lol), but I just wanted to chime in here and say this is probably why I haven't pursued the comics either. Although some of the storylines sound pretty cool, I don't want my boys to grow up (age-wise) and I don't want to see things fall apart or change in this world.

That, and I've never ever read comics in my whole life. I just don't "get" them. ;)

Back on topic, just saw the movie a second time, and I now know without a doubt this is my favourite Raph. I think he's a bit too hard on Leo, but that's my only criticism and anyway he wouldn't be Raph if he didn't antagonise the Blue One. I just melt in that scene where he faces Splinter with Leo's broken katana. He looks so lost...

Buslady

04-05-2007, 08:22 AM

I'm not a big fan of the old toon Raph as much as today's Raphie.
There was none of his anger, just sarcastic wit and humor; that's only ONE part of him. That's all they showed with that one. He was unbalanced.
This was a kiddie show though and not a true representation of TMNT.

Rooish

04-05-2007, 12:36 PM

Oh no you didn't! ;)

heretic888

04-05-2007, 06:26 PM

ToTheNines

04-05-2007, 07:07 PM

In season 1 Raph had a few angry out bursts during fights (GET OUT OF MY FACE, JERK!).

Revan

04-05-2007, 09:38 PM

Raph become funnier and more witty as the show progressed. Most of his smart comments in season one were totally lame. After the first season he got more into his smart alec self we all know.

Sage Ninja

04-06-2007, 12:45 AM

OT Raph was basically Mirage Mike, more or less.

Sadly enough, he was probably the closest thing to the original Michelangelo being depicted in something other than a black-and-white indie comic book. And, he was supposed to Raphael....

wow...Mirage Michaelangelo was like Old toon Raphael, huh? I guess that suprices me a bit because I've never thought of Michaelangelo's character as being the sarcastic type. i thought maybe Mirage Michaelangelo was a bit more good natured.

any way back on topic. I really enjoyed Raphael's interpertation in the old toon. It was a diffrent take on the turtle and it was an entertaining one at that. I don't think the old toon would have been half as entertaining or as good with out Raphael in it and his witty dialogue.

GK Punk

04-06-2007, 12:56 AM

I always liked OT Raph, easily my favorite of the OT Turtles. Movie 1 Raph is my favorite Raph all around though.

Ava Collier

04-06-2007, 01:00 AM

I don't think the old toon would have been half as entertaining or as good with out Raphael in it and his witty dialogue.

I don't think THAT was up for debate! But for example, I remember in the Four Musketurtles episode, (HEY! I remember something! Praise me!) "I'd give Leonardo the shell off my back, but I am NOT wearing lace with feathers, and that's final!"
...in the next scene, guess who was wearing feathers, and lace? XD
It was hilarious, wouldn't change a thing! But if something like that happened in any of the more modern versions, I'd be disturbed, and dissappointed...though I have to admit, I'd probably still laugh.

GK Punk

04-06-2007, 01:01 AM

What was that line he said in I think the third episode "Don't make me get SARCASTIC." and said it in such a serious manner :lol:

Sunshine

04-07-2007, 06:03 PM

I liked old cartoon Raph but not nearly as much. He really doesn't even seem like the same character at all. And from the moment I saw the first movie I loved the slightly darker Raph. He felt more real and I could just relate to him better. Raph from the old cartoon just seemed like he was missing something like we only saw one side of him. I preffer his other incarnations.

heretic888

04-07-2007, 08:08 PM

wow...Mirage Michaelangelo was like Old toon Raphael, huh? I guess that suprices me a bit because I've never thought of Michaelangelo's character as being the sarcastic type. i thought maybe Mirage Michaelangelo was a bit more good natured.

"Sarcastic" and "good natured" are not mutually exclusive. ;)

I would say that Mirage Michelangelo is pretty good natured and sociable, but he's also a pretty snarky fellow. He comes across as a sharp and witty personality, with both a powerful compassionate (re: Klunk) and artistic (re: writing stories) side. This is pretty much absent in his other incarnations (except for the Archie and Dreamwave versions).

This is in contrast to the way that Mike is portrayed in pretty much all the cartoons and movies, in which he's pretty much a doofus. He's not bright, he's not sharp, he's not witty, he's not really artistic. His compassionate side gets reduced to dressing up like a superhero and his artistic side gets reduced to this huge obsession with comic books and pop culture.

What gets passed for "humor" with the non-comic Michelangelo is falling on his head, bonking himself with his own nunchaku, or belching. In other words, all pretty much "physical" humor (i.e., slapstick) that highlight the character's lack of intelligence and wit. Hell, there's been at least one episode in both the FoxBox and Fast Forward series solely about the fact that Mikey just doesn't "get it" (at least, not without some serious prodding in the right direction).

At least, that's how I see it. ;)

Sunshine

04-07-2007, 08:14 PM

I sadly have no idea what the comics are like. I've heard things but that's about it. I still think Mikey and Raph are the best but from what I've seen they both tend to get changed a bit more and a bit more often then the others from one incarnation to the next. Still there hasn't been any incarnations of them that I didn't like at least a bit. <3

Jester

04-07-2007, 08:18 PM

What was that line he said in I think the third episode "Don't make me get SARCASTIC." and said it in such a serious manner :lol:
Baxter: I'll never talk...
Raphael: You'd better or else I'm gonna get...sarcastic!
Baxter: He's in an old mansion on Green St. near 10th. He's got a master control for all the Mousers there.
Raphael: See, nothing beats cutting wit.

triplexxx

04-07-2007, 08:27 PM

If anything, I'd say OT Raphael was pretty smart, of course, so is NT Raphael.

Warhorse

04-07-2007, 09:09 PM

Oh, I think new toon Raph is very, very smart, and has almost an intuition about him, in the sense on how he can read people and size up situations. He is also very savvy when it comes to his fighting, and sometimes, he comes off as brilliant in his innovativeness.

He just tends to also have no fear, and I think that's what messes him up every now and then.

Revan

04-07-2007, 11:22 PM

He just tends to also have no fear, and I think that's what messes him up every now and then.

I LOVE Raph's fearlessness. Example: At the end of season four when the wooden ninjas come from the tribunal to collect the turtles, the wooden guys totally kick their shells. A few eps later, the wooden things surround the turtles and Raph makes a comment, I've been dying for a rematch, or something like that. Raph gets ready to fight again, showing no fear. Watching this ep I'm thinking to myself
"Why would he want a rematch with an IMMORTAL AND VERY SKILLED enemy! There is no way the turtles can win!"

I would have been scared to fight something that I knew I could not kill. Especially when it completely dominated the boys the last time they faught.

Warhorse

04-08-2007, 09:03 AM

I LOVE Raph's fearlessness. Example: At the end of season four when the wooden ninjas come from the tribunal to collect the turtles, the wooden guys totally kick their shells. A few eps later, the wooden things surround the turtles and Raph makes a comment, I've been dying for a rematch, or something like that. Raph gets ready to fight again, showing no fear. Watching this ep I'm thinking to myself
"Why would he want a rematch with an IMMORTAL AND VERY SKILLED enemy! There is no way the turtles can win!"

I would have been scared to fight something that I knew I could not kill. Especially when it completely dominated the boys the last time they faught.

There really are people in the world who are like that. They don't back down from a fight, especially when it is a fight for survival. It's really the animal instinct in us all that are the backbone to our revolution, and Raph is kind of a scary mirror to what we would have to be to achieve that goal.

I always thought, if the comic books were to come to some apocolyptic ending, I am betting that Raph would be the first to go.:cry: But his ending would be some sort of monumental moment that could wake up the world in what a true heroe is really all about.