Mirage Comics Ending?: Official Discussion Thread

[Aztec General]

I started this conversation in another thread (and I now acknowledge that I shouldn't have because it was off topic) and seems that a lot of people want to talk about it. So this is the official thread to talk about the possibility of Mirage Comics closing up shop at the end of '07.

Here's what we know: Jim Lawson stated that Volume 4 is on hold indefinetely because Peter has writer's block. Peter also has decided not to create any new Tales Vol. 2 stories for the year '08. Thus Mirage is in a state of limbo.

Listen to Jim Lawson's comments here: http://tinyurl.com/2nrraj

So what do you guys think about this development?

Personally I'd like to see Volume 4 continued but with a new writing staff. I love Laird, and many of his ideas were interesting in Vol. 4, but if he is having difficulty coming up with ideas why not let a new team have a crack at it?

Let's be honest Vol. 4 has been a series of fits and starts. Peter will come up with a great idea and then go almost nowhere with it. I can't tell you how many great storylines I've been frustrated with because he never properly addressed them or just quickly ended them. I felt like I kept getting psyched up only to be disappointed.

Just Some Examples:
Eunuch Warriors
Triceraton vs. Utrom storyline
Xihad
Villainous toymaker (can't recall his name)
The mysterious van
The secretive guy who runs the superhero hospital (can't recall his name)
The Talking dinosaurs
Oroku Yoshi

Tales Vol. 2 has demonstrated that there are clearly creative teams who are capable of telling good TMNT stories. Why not give one or two of those guys a shot for a year or two? Let Peter play the role of consultant and executive.

Keeping the TMNT alive is very important. The new film demonstrated that there is definetely still interest in the franchise. I'm sure DVD sales will only help solidify that notion. Why stop now when interest in the franchise has been renewed?

[CyberCubed]

Eh, I'd like Peter to be the one to continue Volume 4 whenever he is ready. I'm not a fan of the creator starting a long storyline and then handing it off to someone else.

And then you know when that happens Peter Laird will get fed up 5 years later and declare everything after him "not in continuity." Mirage already tried this with the Image series and I don't think they want to make that mistake again.

I never expected the Tales series to last forever. In all honesty, the Tales series was a bonus. We got a lot of great stories out of them and it tied up a lot of loose ends in the TMNT universe over the years, but if it ends we can agree it had a great run. They made almost 50 issues which is quite impressive so if it ends then there's not much we can do about it. Tales was never going to last forever and Mirage has been losing money on each book they print so I think of Tales as more of fanservice for the fans rather than anything else. Just appreciate the run it had, because none of us expected it to last as long as it did.

I just want Volume 4 continued at some point, hell he can even do his "quartley" Volume 4 idea he said in the letters pages, where only 4 issues would come out a year but they would have around 60 pages each. They could do that.

[Time Mistress]

Tales is ending? That's sad to hear. I've really been cutting down my comics budget lately, but the TMNT books are among the ones I've continued to support. The comics martket is so screwed up these days. The recent Top 300 comics selling list for March I saw showed TMNT selling around at only the 3000-4000 copies range, and that was the movie promoted tie ins. Does anyone know what TMNT sold at in it's hey day of the late 80s/early 90s?

I'd continue to support TMNT as a quarterly like suggested above. Is there any chance Mirage could imitate the manga format like the American manga company Seven Seas or swing some deal with Tokyopop as a publishing partner to get it in regular bookstores? TMNT is already a b&w book anyway and teens eat that up these days. How did Stan Sakai keep Usagi afloat long enough to reach it's 100th issue recently? What about making TMNT into a webcomic?

And where does this leave the Raphael mini? Is that still going to see the light of day this summer or has it been canceled too? And what about Forever War?

[Mecha Cow]

I see no reason why TMNT couldn't keep going under different creative teams. I know Pete doesn't like other people handling his baby, but seriously, would he rather have no TMNT at all?

[Roseangelo]

Not that everybody doesn't already know how I feel about this, but...

First of all, I don't think that Volume 4 should actually be continued by a new writing/drawing team. Honestly, we need to get as far away from Volume 4 as possible. If Peter wanted to continue Volume 4 on his own time, however frequent or infrequent that might be, fine, I can humor that idea, but it cannot be the sole TMNT comic on the market. There HAS to be a continuing comic, with a team that is neither Laird or Lawson (although Laird can still oversee and make sure all of his TMNT "commandments" are followed, of course) and it HAS to attempt to be a mainstream book.

I know TMNT has never in truth been a mainstream book, but by that all I mean is that it has GOOD art and a continuing storyline that moves in small chunks with story arcs that last 2-5 issues (with room for a few exceptions, of course). Unless the book is going to be properly toned (so that it's not only flat black & white, with virtually no in between, which is pretty much all we've seen in TMNT books for at least the last two years, possibly longer), I really think it's time to give color another chance.

Is there any chance Mirage could imitate the manga format like the American manga company Seven Seas or swing some deal with Tokyopop as a publishing partner to get it in regular bookstores?

Actually, I think it'd be smart for Mirage to allow a manga-style TMNT book. The regular book should definitely not be published that way, but look a MNT Gaiden and how popular that is among the fans. If you published something wacky like that and put it in front of all those kids who are buying manga these days, you could strike a completely new audience. STAR TREK has a manga book out, why not TMNT?

How did Stan Sakai keep Usagi afloat long enough to reach it's 100th issue recently?

He writes/draws a compelling comic book with an engaging plot and art that is pleasing to the eyes. This can't be said of TMNT in at least the last 15 years, depending on what your view of Volume 2 is.

And where does this leave the Raphael mini? Is that still going to see the light of day this summer or has it been canceled too?

No books have been canceled. Everything that's planned for publication at this point, including the Raphael mini, will be published. It's new projects after those that are up in the air. Jim Lawson has apparently just written a script for a Michaelangelo mini, but even he doesn't know if that will ever be completed/published.

And what about Forever War?

This is still a go, too... assuming it ever gets finished. (And if Mirage is smart they'll publish this in a TPB that can actually be ordered by bookstores and be widely available to the graphic novel-reading public, because this story has more potential than most anything else Mirage has done of late.)

[DrSpengler]

I know Pete doesn't like other people handling his baby, but seriously, would he rather have no TMNT at all?

Possibly.

Laird has always told the fans that Vol. 4 and Tales were "gifts"; that they lost money on every issue, he was paying for the difference ut of his own pocket and was publishing the books as a gift for the fans (a gift you had to pay for, anyway). And as with any act of "generosity", he can take it away whenever he feels like it.

I suppose my only problem with Vol. 4 ending as is is that there's no resolution. When Vol. 1 and 2 ended they were at a convenient stopping point or at least the end of an arc. Vol. 4 is smack in the middle of several action scenes. Try collecting that in a TPB and having it end so suddenly.

I'm more sorrowful for the lost of Tales. Some fantastic stories and art came out of that series and Mirage's dedication to giving a spotlight to "unknown" creative teams was worthy of praise.

Even more depressing, this probably means we're never going to get the Forever War.:ohwell:

[Rooish]

Woah, I think I should know what the Forever War is. What is it?

[Lone Wolf]

Peter Laird is the artistic integrity of the turtles; he has a strong vision of what the franchise is, and at this point in his career, he won't compromise on it. Furthermore, if it wasn't for his interest in the Turtles this past decade plus, there wouldn't be any new comics, a new cartoon, or a new movie. In short, I recognize and respect Laird's instrumental role in all of these aspects of the franchise.

Nevertheless, Mirage is a screwed up company; a desultory and ineffectual giant lumbering along until a new licensing opportunity arrives. If Laird is tired of making his "gift" for the fans (and I certainly don't begrudge him that; in fact, I admire his passion for the franchise in this regard), I hope to Xenu that he thinks about the long-term future of the TMNT. Does he really want to take the franchise to the grave with him?

On the other hand, I honestly don't know what the answer is in regard to the comics inability to make a profit. The comic book business is so tough, particularly for a black and white book. Particularly for a book not about superheroes. Particularly for a black and white book that is not about superheroes and not published by DC or Marvel. That is a steep mountain to climb, and Dreamwave has already crashed and burned in an attempt to bring the TMNT to the mainstream of a marginalized industry. Will comic readers be welcoming of yet another reboot of the TMNT, another reboot amidst a history of reboots that don't have a great commercial track record to begin with?

Maybe if Laird was willing to open the coffers and get some decent names in the comic biz to collaborate on an Ultimate TMNT book, there could be a chance. On the other hand, they could go in a different direction and market to the college crowd that remembers TMNT from their childhood and are now reading Manga. I don't know, maybe there is a happy medium between those two methods, or maybe they are both doomed to failure.

I just hope there is a future for TMNT comics.

[VaughnMichael]

I really love when people talk for other people.:roll:

[Roseangelo]

Woah, I think I should know what the Forever War is. What is it?

The Forever War was SUPPOSED to have been the last story arc of the Archie Comics. After that, the book was getting canceled. Two or three issues were solicited in Previews, but then Archie changed their minds and canceled the book just BEFORE the Forever War. It was a Future Turtles story that involved Shredder, although I've long forgotten the details that I read in Previews.

However, Chris Allan has the would-have-been cover art for the series on his site (http://www.ak-studios.com/chrissite/chrisportfolio.html). Needless to say, it looks fantastic.

[Fledermaus]

It's not a huge dishonor for Laird to let others contribute to TMNT while he assumes the role as "overseer" and guide for the franchise. Once a character/franchise gets to be a certain age, say twenty years, it belongs to the fans as well. :( Stan Lee didn't just halt the production of Spider-Man comics when he got tired or temporarily ran out of stories to tell -- he allowed others to contribute to the character. He stayed around for a long time though as a kind of overseer of the comic, which continued regularly.

What is holding Laird back from taking this approach? Is he sick? Maybe he needs a new "partner" -- one who can help him maintain a schedule and keep/achieve a list of goals they can work out together. It's just not right to stop TMNT -- what about the fans?

[Roseangelo]

What is holding Laird back from taking this approach? Is he sick? Maybe he needs a new "partner" -- one who can help him maintain a schedule and keep/achieve a list of goals they can work out together. It's just not right to stop TMNT -- what about the fans?

I agree wholeheartedly. I just assume he hasn't done this because he's stubborn. I know it's his characters and his book blahblahblah, but it would be nice if he could show an ounce of appreciation for the fans, instead of actually telling us not to buy the book. A little fan service could go a long way.

[VaughnMichael]

I agree wholeheartedly. I just assume he hasn't done this because he's stubborn. I know it's his characters and his book blahblahblah, but it would be nice if he could show an ounce of appreciation for the fans, instead of actually telling us not to buy the book. A little fan service could go a long way.
Then he'd say something like oh I am by bringing these comics out every so often when they're not making any money.
Which I can hardly believe! The Comics are so hard to find nd always sell out I'd have to believe tales is selling more than vol. 4 Peter's probably ticked about that.

[ZariusTwo]

It's a little difficult when the fans have been treating some of his decisions and freinds like s*it.

What the ungrateful brats don't seem to grasp though, is that Laird is single-handidly, single-flipping-handily, handling a franchise that has surpassed the episode counts and length of other revivals, despite the "perceived failiure", the series has thrived, the movie has come out. He has worked his ass on the buisness side of things to keep TMNT alive, and obviously it had an adverse effect on him.

Stress, exhaustion, distractions, this was the cause of Volume Four's abruptness with storylines and eventual hiatus. Right now, Tales has reached a healthy number, it's not big by any means, but it's still a good run, the long time survival of the franchise in the mainstream is what is more important to him, as a buisness man who has done far more to try and give the fans what they want, he can't be faulted for lapsing.

[Fledermaus]

It's a little difficult when the fans have been treating some of his decisions and freinds like s*it.

Is this a reference to the movie, the volume 4 comics, or what happened to the new show? Which "friends"? :-?

[Lone Wolf]

Then he'd say something like oh I am by bringing these comics out every so often when they're not making any money.
Which I can hardly believe! The Comics are so hard to find nd always sell out I'd have to believe tales is selling more than vol. 4 Peter's probably ticked about that.

3000 copies worth of sales is essentially breaking even in todays game; it doesn't matter if they sell out.

I will actually defend Laird up to this point: he isn't making any money of the book, so he deserves recognition for making the book solely for the love of it.

On the other hand, nobody is putting a gun to his head and making him write a book that makes no profit. He can either 1) accept it, 2) try to change the books position in the marketplace or 3) quit.

I was and am willing to tolerate #1 and hope for #2, I just hope he isn't considering #3.

[Ninjinister]

TMNT (and Tales) is the only comic I regularly attempt to keep up with. If there are no more TMNT comics... then my visits to my local comic shop will be even less frequent.

[Lone Wolf]

TMNT (and Tales) is the only comic I regularly attempt to keep up with. If there are no more TMNT comics... then my visits to my local comic shop will be even less frequent.

Same here dude :(.

[ZariusTwo]

Is this a reference to the movie, the volume 4 comics, or what happened to the new show? Which "friends"? :-?

1. April, the human illustration
2. Lawson's art
3. Pete's liberal opinions
4. His exhaustion and failiure to follow up on concepts due to exhaustion

And god knows what else the "fans" have given him nothing but greif about.

[ZariusTwo]

He writes/draws a compelling comic book with an engaging plot and art that is pleasing to the eyes. This can't be said of TMNT in at least the last 15 years, depending on what your view of Volume 2 is.

That's your opinion, Tales has had a few arcs that have been very well written, either by Murphy, Lawson, Laird or otherwise.

[VaughnMichael]

Same here dude :(.
Same here well almost I some times pick up other comics if the art is nice or if I like a character the comic is about.
The only other comics I buy are The Walking Dead (another B&W comic), and Worm Wood.
1. April, the human illustration
2. Lawson's art
3. Pete's liberal opinions
4. His exhaustion and failiure to follow up on concepts due to exhaustion

And god knows what else the "fans" have given him nothing but greif about.
I remember correctly you complained about the April being a drawing just as much as anyone else? But hey I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure you disliked it to. Personally I thought it cheapend April as a character but hey what can you do?
I honestly don't care what he does in his new comics they're his new comics so he can do as he pleases.
You know it's funny btw half of those opinions expressed in tales aren't even Peter lairds they belong to Steve Murphy I believe.
And I honestly have no problem with them because I agree with most of what they're saying.
And his being tired and over working himself was only brought upon by himself and taking to much of a work load on by himself.
I am a fan of Jim Lawson btw thats the only friend of Peters that I can think of that he's so chummy with that people rip on but I'm not a fan of his reccent work and I've made it pretty clear myself I don't think it's so much him drawing badly at this point as it is who ever is inking his work because no one inks his work better than himself.
Maybe Peter should let Kevin Monroe have some fun with the turtles for a bit longer and make a mainstream comic.
I don't see what it could hurt at this point we've all seen how much he cares for the turtles and what he can do.
That's your opinion, Tales has had a few arcs that have been very well written, either by Murphy, Lawson, Laird or otherwise.
I'm gonna have to agree with you here while I've not always liked the art both tales and Vol. 4's storys are something I enjoy.

[Roseangelo]

1. April, the human illustration
2. Lawson's art
3. Pete's liberal opinions
4. His exhaustion and failiure to follow up on concepts due to exhaustion

And god knows what else the "fans" have given him nothing but greif about.

Being a fan doesn't mean your obligated to like every decision made by a creator.

1. That and several other plot devices in Vol. 4 simply aren't in line with what the TMNT story is supposed to be. Peter may be co-creator, and as such you'd think he'd know more than anyone what fits his characters, but can you honestly read volume 1 and draw a bridge between that and volume 4? I can't just go along for the ride when I think Peter has lost sight of what's important and has replaced it with endless dinosaurs, motorcycles, and Star Trek-type sci-fi. That is all I see in Volume 4.

2. Lawson has been the sole penciller on Mirage TMNT titles (excluding Tales, although he also does a lot of that) since Vol. 1 #48. Let's look at his work through the years...

Tales of the TMNT Volume 1 (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/tales/02/0201.jpg)
City at War (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/52/5202.jpg)
TMNT Volume 2 (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume02/03/0302.jpg)
TMNT Volume 4 (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/22/04.jpg)

It's simply time for change.

3. His political opinions wouldn't be an issue if he didn't use the letters page as a platform for them. It also doesn't help that he insults anyone who doesn't share his point of view.

4. Which is why he needs to let someone else take over the comic book duties.

It's honestly not disrespect, it's just trying to provide feedback and constructive critisism. But Peter just isn't very responsive to either.

That's your opinion, Tales has had a few arcs that have been very well written, either by Murphy, Lawson, Laird or otherwise.

I have no issues with Tales. I was referring to Volume 4.

[Chris]

I'd rather it didn't end but if it has to end then I'd at least want Tales to reach issue 50 (I'd also love to see the tale of April and Casey's wedding and of the TMNT's reaction to being able to walk around in public that was pretty much skimmed over in Vol. 4 but that's just me).

Same for Vol. 4, I don't want it to end but if it must I would at least like some closure and the storylines wrapped up. I don't think he's forgotton about any storylines, they're just being dragged out and leading to other things at the same time (like the warriors led Leo to the Battle Nexus which in turn has led to a new Shredder whilst the warriors themselves have not yet been explained/resolved). I'd hate for it to be left where it is right now. I'm all for Peter Laird doing an extra size quaterly or bi-annual comic rather than bi-monthly. Being completely honest I'd take a rushed ending designed to simply tie things up rather than just leaving it opened ended like it is now.

I don't think Vol. 4 (or Tales for that matter) will ever be main stream and I appreciate Peter's desire to maintain control of the comic. I respect that he's doing not for profit and only for the fans and out of love of the characters. I also think that both of those deserve closure which isn't there right now. That said I'd actually rather leave it as it is now than have someone else come in and finish the story, but I think given time Peter can and will do it.

As for a main stream comic (if Peter Laird even wants one), I think it would have to be an "Ultimate" style book, revamping the TMNT and starting from the ground up, most likely in color and, though it doesn't bother me and Tales has proven it isn't needed for quality, with "names" attached to help sales. Peter could serve as a creative consultant (as he does with Tales, the TV series and the movies) to ensure it meets his standards.

[rayfillet101]

I think there should be a new comic set in the cartoon/movie universe. He did say there would be one a while back. He can have a break and the fans can get a generally accepted version of the turtles with less "what the shell" and more stories. the dreamwave series done right.

[Fledermaus]

1. April, the human illustration
2. Lawson's art
3. Pete's liberal opinions
4. His exhaustion and failiure to follow up on concepts due to exhaustion

And god knows what else the "fans" have given him nothing but greif about.

Well... it is natural for fans to react to horrible concepts with disdain. Sort of like how lots of Spidey fans hated what JMS did to Spidey's origin. Many felt it threw away a lot of what made the character fun to begin with. That Spider-Man wasn't specially "chosen" or placed high above other mortals to receive a gift.

In April's case, I think a lot of fans liked how she was relatively "normal" in her origins -- she was one of the few links between the world of reality and the world of mutant ninja turtles. Casey was a hockey mask-wearing vigilante. April was a regular human being. Was. Until we were recently told that she wasn't. :ohwell:

But that's my opinion on the negative reaction there.

A lot of the plots that I've seen in Volume 4 are just... The stories, for the most part, just aren't worth reading to me. What's the point? The art doesn't draw me in, the stories feel lost. What is the point? the point is probably that the writer is currently out of stories to tell. Laird has done great work in the past, but I think the current state of the franchise (and Volume 4) is a strong indicator that he is stretched too thin. When I mean state of the franchise... it's not dead by any means, but it never hits as high as intended (it's not all Laird's fault -- a lot of it is simply bad luck). The new show gets dumbed down as a result. The new movie... well it wasn't much of hit. As for Mirage Volume 4 and us whiny fans, we're not the reason why the arcs in were lousy, however you have a point; ensuing disapproval (lack of support) is always unhelpful fuel to the fire. No doubt Laird could use a break from the TMNT.

Still... this pattern shouldn't continue in the future, if there is to be any hope for the franchise. Eventually, Laird is going to have to delegate and let other people contribute their strengths, let go and accept that the TMNT no longer belong to just him -- it belongs to the fans as well. Just like Superman belongs to the fans as well as the creator. Batman, Spider-Man. And Star Wars... :sweatdro: As an artist, Laird may be feeling drained and restless because he hasn't been able to try new things in so long -- since he's so busy trying to run everything.

So, it's entirely understandable what Laird is going through.

But regardless of why, the TMNT comics, both of them, lose out -- with it goes much potential for the franchise. What a huge shame.

EDIT: I second Putrescent on the Kevin Munroe idea. :) He's a guy who seems to have a LOT of energy and tenacity to explore new ideas while remaining true to the TMNT characters.

[Time Mistress]

Maybe Peter should let Kevin Monroe have some fun with the turtles for a bit longer and make a mainstream comic.
I don't see what it could hurt at this point we've all seen how much he cares for the turtles and what he can do.


That would be an interesting idea.

Also what about Kevin Smith? He was in the new movie which suggests he has an interest in the TMNT? He did wonders for reviving the Green Arrow comic. Imagine what he could do for TMNT.

[Roseangelo]

Kevin Munroe working on the TMNT comic would be excellent, but I think he's securely tied-up with Gatchaman for the next couple years.

[VaughnMichael]

Kevin Munroe working on the TMNT comic would be excellent, but I think he's securely tied-up with Gatchaman for the next couple years.
Indded I thought the same exact thing but you never know.
We could loose one Kevin and bring a new one in but people might get a bit confused if the books start saying Peter Laird & Kevin Monroe's TMNT lol:lol:

[Fledermaus]

We could loose one Kevin and bring a new one in but people might get a bit confused if the books start saying Peter Laird & Kevin Monroe's TMNT lol:lol:

Yeah. Just like people got confused with "Stan Lee Presents [insert comic title here]"... :roll: ;) I don't think people will gripe too much over it. So long as the stories are worth reading and so long as the comics maintain the spirit of the TMNT... whatever that is. :P

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah. Just like people got confused with "Stan Lee Presents [insert comic title here]"... :roll: ;) I don't think people will gripe too much over it. So long as the stories are worth reading and so long as the comics maintain the spirit of the TMNT... whatever that is. :P
Oh wasn't saying they'd gripe I was more thinking they'd confuse Kevin Monroe with Kevin Eastman.:lol:

[Fledermaus]

Oh wasn't saying they'd gripe I was more thinking they'd confuse Kevin Monroe with Kevin Eastman.:lol:

To counter any confusion, the first page (on the inside of the cover) could have an obligatory "how it all began" story of the TMNT comic, emphasizing that it was the creation of Kevin EASTMAN and Peter Laird. It could feature pictures of both Laird and Eastman -- and clearly, thoroughly explain that Kevin Eastman is a completely different person than Kevin Munroe, who would be writing/managing/helping out the comic in some way.

If Kevin Munroe ever does work on an "ongoing" TMNT comic -- he would probably do better to emphasize the "Munroe" part of his name rather than the "Kevin." ;)

[VaughnMichael]

To counter any confusion, the first page (on the inside of the cover) could have an obligatory "how it all began" story of the TMNT comic, emphasizing that it was the creation of Kevin EASTMAN and Peter Laird. It could feature pictures of both Laird and Eastman -- and clearly, thoroughly explain that Kevin Eastman is a completely different person than Kevin Munroe, who would be writing/managing/helping out the comic in some way.

If Kevin Munroe ever does work on an "ongoing" TMNT comic -- he would probably do better to emphasize the "Munroe" part of his name rather than the "Kevin." ;)
That'd be fine and dandy by me seeing s how I read all of those front page and letters pages. But I don't think your average reader does.
But of course I don't think the avarage reader picks up tmnt comics anyways. :ohwell:

[Roseangelo]

But of course I don't think the avarage reader picks up tmnt comics anyways. :ohwell:

Which is the bigger problem. I don't think we have to worry about people getting the Kevins confused at this point in the game. ;)

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Being a fan doesn't mean your obligated to like every decision made by a creator.

1. That and several other plot devices in Vol. 4 simply aren't in line with what the TMNT story is supposed to be. Peter may be co-creator, and as such you'd think he'd know more than anyone what fits his characters, but can you honestly read volume 1 and draw a bridge between that and volume 4? I can't just go along for the ride when I think Peter has lost sight of what's important and has replaced it with endless dinosaurs, motorcycles, and Star Trek-type sci-fi. That is all I see in Volume 4.



I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything, but I gotta call BS on that. Aside from missing Eastman's tone, nothings really changed in the stories. Peter hasn't lost sight of anything. All the sci-fi and motorcycles have been a staple in TMNT since 1984. Why does everyone keep acting like this is new. It's been like this in the comics, cartoons, movies, and next mutation.

[SLASH!!!]

I gotta agree with you on the scifi stuff being there from the begining. By issue ten they had battled robots, travled into space, went back in time, and Don found himself in another dimension.

[Roseangelo]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything, but I gotta call BS on that. Aside from missing Eastman's tone, nothings really changed in the stories. Peter hasn't lost sight of anything. All the sci-fi and motorcycles have been a staple in TMNT since 1984. Why does everyone keep acting like this is new. It's been like this in the comics, cartoons, movies, and next mutation.

All of that sas been a staple of the series in small doses, but Volume 4 became seriously overrun with it. So aliens land and reveal themselves and the whole world just accepts it and now the TMNT walk where ever they want. There goes the whole outcast part of the story that was intriguing and conflict-causing.

The way #10 was solicited, it was going to be a giant issue featuring a "death in the family." Ok. Only for it to be a giant issue about nanobots and oh, Splinter dies, too.

Raphael IS a dinosaur. Oh yeah, that's brilliant.

If all this stuff could happen without taking away the heart and soul of the characters, it wouldn't be a big deal, but there's just no depth to any of the characters anymore.

If you want to disagree and say that's BS, that's fine, I can't force you to think anything. But I'm hardly the only person who does feel this way; I'm just one of the few that says anything.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

All of that sas been a staple of the series in small doses, but Volume 4 became seriously overrun with it. So aliens land and reveal themselves and the whole world just accepts it and now the TMNT walk where ever they want. There goes the whole outcast part of the story that was intriguing and conflict-causing.

The way #10 was solicited, it was going to be a giant issue featuring a "death in the family." Ok. Only for it to be a giant issue about nanobots and oh, Splinter dies, too.

Raphael IS a dinosaur. Oh yeah, that's brilliant.

If all this stuff could happen without taking away the heart and soul of the characters, it wouldn't be a big deal, but there's just no depth to any of the characters anymore.

If you want to disagree and say that's BS, that's fine, I can't force you to think anything. But I'm hardly the only person who does feel this way; I'm just one of the few that says anything.

Small doses? Pretty much every major arc had some sci-fi aspect to it. Robots, Mutants, Time Travel, Space Travel, Cloning, Superheroes, whatever the hell the Rat King is. it's always been overrun with it, but it's more noticable now because theres only one writter instead of all the guest writters, but even then there was still a big dose of sci-fi.

There is still depth to them, but since they're adults now, and they've already matured, they don't need to keep addressing the same problems over and over(Leo's prefectionism, Don and Mikey's lack of focus, and Raph's anger).

[OldSchooler]

Looking at the continuity thread, there's a huge amount of sci fi going on in the TMNT books, even since the early days. It's just that the MAJOR arcs have dealt with the Foot...


Tales Vol. 2 #13 – Loops Part 1
Tales Vol. 2 #14 – Loops Part 2
Vol. 1 #9 – The Passing
Tales Vol. 2 #1 – Not Forgotten


Vol. 1 #2 – TMNT Vs. the Mousers
Vol. 1 #3 – The Great Chase
Vol. 1 #3 – Complete Carnage & Radical
Vol. 1 #4 – Rescuing Master Splinter
Fugitoid #1 – The Fugitoid’s Origin
Vol. 1 #5 – Teaming Up with Fugitoid
Vol. 1 #6 – The Triceraton Homeworld
Vol. 1 #7 – All is Revealed
Gizmo and the Fugitoid #1
Gizmo and the Fugitoid #2
Tales Vol. 1 #3 – All Hallow’s Thieves
Vol. 1 #5 – Ghoul’s Night Out
Turtle Soup (one-shot) – The Howl
Turtle Soup (one-shot) - Apparition
Vol. 1 #8 – Team Up with Cerebus
Grunts #1 – The Lesson
Vol. 1 #4 – The Survival Game
Donatello – Kirby and the Warp Crystal
Gobbledygook (Vol. 2) #1 – Technofear!!!
Gobbledygook (Vol. 2) #1 – Crazy Man
Turtle Soup (one-shot) – Turtle Dreams
Tales Vol. 1 #5 – Complete Carnage and Radical
Tales Vol. 1 #6 – Leatherhead
Tales Vol. 1 #7 – The Return of Savanti Romero
Turtle Soup Vol. 2 #3 – Sweat, Sweat, Sweet Renet
Turtle Soup (one-shot) – Turtle Soup and Rabbit Stew
Usagi Yojimbo (Vol. 1) #10 – The Crossing
Usagi Yojimbo (Vol. 2) #1 – Shades of Green part 1
Usagi Yojimbo (Vol. 2) #2 – Shades of Green part 2
Usagi Yojimbo (Vol. 2) #3 – Shades of Green part 3
Vol. 1 #10 – Silent Partner


Vol. 1 #13 – The People’s Choice
Vol. 1 #15 – Dome Doom
Vol. 1 #17 – Distractions
Vol. 1 #19 – Return to New York Part 1
Vol. 1 #20 – Return to New York Part 2
Vol. 1 #21 – Return to New York Part 3


Tales Vol. 2 #3 – The Worms of Madness Part 1
Tales Vol. 2 #4 – The Worms of Madness Part 2
Tales Vol. 2 #3 – Green
Casey Jones #1 – North by Down East part 1
Casey Jones #2 – North by Down East part 2
Gobbledygook (Vol. 2) #1 – You Had to be There
Vol. 1 #27 – Dreams of Stone
Vol. 1 #24 – The River Part 1: Down to the River
Vol. 1 #25 – The River Part 2: River Hymn
Vol. 1 #26 – The River Part 3: Old Man River
Vol. 1 #28 – Sons of the Silent Age
Vol. 1 #29 – Men of Shadow
Vol. 1 #30 – Sky Highway
Vol. 1 #42 – Juliet’s Revenge
Vol. 1 #43 – Halls of Lost Legends
Turtle Soup Vol. 2 #1-4 – Turtles Attack
Turtle Soup Vol. 2 #1 – The Purpose of Fear – The Ring

Vol. 1 #44 – The Violent Underground
Vol. 1 #45 – Leatherhead, Too
Tales Vol. 2 #8 – Virus
Tales Vol. 2 #23 – Attack of the Replicants
Vol. 1 #46 – Masks Part 1
Vol. 1 #47 – Masks Part 2

Vol. 2 #1 – Memories of the Future
Vol. 2 #2 – Winds of Change
Vol. 2 #3 – Evolution
Vol. 2 #4 – Intruders
Vol. 2 #5 – Death Race
Tales Vol. 2 #20 – The Cure
Vol. 2 #6 – Killer on the Loose
Vol. 2 #7 – Confrontations
Vol. 2 #8 – Face Off
Vol. 2 #9 – Victory?
Vol. 2 #10 – Descending into D.A.R.P.A.
Vol. 2 #11 – The Rescue
Vol. 2 #12 – The Escape
Vol. 2 #13 – The Battle

Tales Vol. 2 #9 – The Path – Community Service
Tales Vol. 2 #10 – Kaddish

Tales Vol. 2 #19 – A Ghost Story
Tales Vol. 2 #20 – The Trophy – The Rippling
Tales Vol. 2 #21 – A (Bull) Wrinkle in Time

Tales Vol. 2 #24 – Rock of Ages

Tales Vol. 2 #30 – Circle of Darkness – The Mother of All Anger
Tales Vol. 2 #32 – The Eye of Aga-Moo-Tou

Tales Vol. 2 #7 – Darkness Weaves

Tales Vol. 2 #12 – Paris Nocturne
Tales Vol. 2 #15 – Hell’s Blacktop

Vol. 4 #1
Vol. 4 #2
Vol. 4 #3
Vol. 4 #4
Vol. 4 #5
Tales Vol. 2 #16 – Sins of the Past
Tales Vol. 2 #18 – The Blue Hole
Tales Vol. 2 #28 – Shanghaid – Channeling
Tales Vol. 2 #29 – Soul Survivor
Tales Vol. 2 #31 – Reflections
Tales Vol. 2 #10 – The Question
Tales Vol. 2 #14 – First Mud
Tales Vol. 2 #15 – Apocalypse Vow
Tales Vol. 2 #18 – Altered Fates
Tales Vol. 2 #25 – The Doors of Deception
Tales Vol. 2 #4 – The Grape
Tales Vol. 2 #6 – The Raisin
Tales Vol. 2 #8 – The Risen
Vol. 4 #6
Vol. 4 #7
Vol. 4 #8
Vol. 4 #9
Vol. 4 #10
Vol. 4 #11
Tales Vol. 2 #17 – Wrong Turn
Vol. 4 #12
Vol. 4 #13
Vol. 4 #14
Vol. 4 #15
Vol. 4 #16
Vol. 4 #17
Vol. 4 #18
Vol. 4 #19
Vol. 4 #20
Vol. 4 #21
Vol. 4 #22
Vol. 4 #23
Vol. 4 #24
Vol. 4 #25
Vol. 4 #26
Vol. 4 #27
Vol. 4 #28
Tales Vol. 2 #27 – White Horse

[CyberCubed]

All of that sas been a staple of the series in small doses, but Volume 4 became seriously overrun with it. So aliens land and reveal themselves and the whole world just accepts it and now the TMNT walk where ever they want. There goes the whole outcast part of the story that was intriguing and conflict-causing.

Heh, anyone else think that's where the idea of FF came from? The whole "aliens on Earth and the Turtles walking around in public" from Volume 4 seems to have been lifted directly into Fast Forward.

Surprises me that the Utroms haven't really been shown on FF yet.

[Raph's Girl]

The secretive guy who runs the superhero hospital (can't recall his name)

Uh... That's Zippy Lad....he's an original member of the Justice Force so not really secretive there.

As for Forever War: Come on.. Ninjara in Mirage comics! What more could one want! :evilgrin:

And as for Mirage going the way of the dodo. Gods I hope not.

[Raph's Girl]

Surprises me that the Utroms haven't really been shown on FF yet.

There's Utroms in FF! In one of the earlier eps you can see some floating about in the street as the turtles walk by.

[CyberCubed]

There's Utroms in FF! In one of the earlier eps you can see some floating about in the street as the turtles walk by.

I know, but I mean as a major role, not just cameos.

[TristanHuwJones]

Whoa! Never mind, I just figured out what the post meant to say! :D

[ZariusTwo]

The way #10 was solicited, it was going to be a giant issue featuring a "death in the family." Ok. Only for it to be a giant issue about nanobots and oh, Splinter dies, too.

The few panels and the concluding scene showcasing Splinter's spoke for themselves brilliantly. Real critics don't look into the best stuff of the fourth volume to find problems, the desperate do.

If you want to disagree and say that's BS, that's fine, I can't force you to think anything. But I'm hardly the only person who does feel this way; I'm just one of the few that says anything.

No, unfortunatly you're not, there's too many "fans" LIKE you, and it showed in the letters pages of Volume Four. Bitter and stuck up, under the pretentious mentality there "owed" something, despite all you have received in contrast to one, unprofitable comic that does'nt meet your elitist expectations.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Mirage Comics ending? Without any reprints of Volume One in trade format? If that's the case, I wouldn't mind Marvel buying the rights or something. Seriously, I think it would be great for getting the old comics back out there into comic stores as trades, and it would beat having no more turtles comic releases. Marvel is great at making their old comics available.

[ZariusTwo]

In April's case, I think a lot of fans liked how she was relatively "normal" in her origins -- she was one of the few links between the world of reality and the world of mutant ninja turtles. Casey was a hockey mask-wearing vigilante. April was a regular human being. Was. Until we were recently told that she wasn't. :ohwell:

The ironic part? Laird figured out what to do with her in the current series, lost Uncles, a physical role (Archie introduced that side first, but you get the point), even the plantonic relationship with Donny freshened up April in more ways that Volume Four did and gave her character multiple aspects.

Yes, more could have been done with April as a character in the comics, but I don't think the origin did much to change anyone's perspectives. April's conception was like a test tube birth with ink and paper, she still breathed and lived life relativly normal (where as her lost "versions" could be considered accidental abortions).

The origin I think was social commentary on how some children don't have a past or know where they came from, but it does'nt remotley matter in the final accounting. It's a lesson people don't grasp to this very day.

A lot of the plots that I've seen in Volume 4 are just... The stories, for the most part, just aren't worth reading to me. What's the point? The art doesn't draw me in, the stories feel lost. What is the point? the point is probably that the writer is currently out of stories to tell.

I don't agree with that, Laird worked on the series WITH the other writers, Battle Nexus, Utrom Shredder, all of that was not just Goldfline, or Isenberg, or Ryan, or Yost, it was also Laird. The guy can still provide tons of concepts, he's not "out of ideas", he's SWARMED by a franchise that, like the original, has become too big to handle alone.

People like to bash Laird because it's easy. He's stubborn in his opinions, he does what he wants with his co-creations, and he lets everyone know it. What these pricks do to him is disgusting. They know how exhausted he is from juggling a succesful franchise almost single handidly, they KNOW they've gotten movies, games, series, and they want more. If he can't deliver, they attack without mercy, on him and Lawson. I don't know about anyone else, but that is'nt a sign of a respective fanbase, and anyone who stoops to that low knowing how much they already have has no class and should'nt call themselves fans to begin with.

Back on topic though, I agree that Munroe should become a custodian of the franchise, TMNT was'nt your typical Turtles outing, but then we have had a lot of good work in Tales...it all depends on seeing one thing when aggresivly attacking another.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

No, unfortunatly you're not, there's too many "fans" LIKE you, and it showed in the letters pages of Volume Four. Bitter and stuck up, under the pretentious mentality there "owed" something, despite all you have received in contrast to one, unprofitable comic that does'nt meet your elitist expectations.

Yeah, I mean, look at the stuff he's done for the fans. He's continuing to tell the TMNT's story even though the book is barley turning a profit. He went out of his way to make sure the Lost Season got distributred. He's working on getting TPBs of Volume 1 for everybody, and he personally gave the okay to Kevin Munroe and was hands-on with the production of TMNT.

And he does it all for us.

Mirage Comics ending? Without any reprints of Volume One in trade format? If that's the case, I wouldn't mind Marvel buying the rights or something. Seriously, I think it would be great for getting the old comics back out there into comic stores as trades, and it would beat having no more turtles comic releases. Marvel is great at making their old comics available.

Marvel, god no. I wouldn't want to see the TMNT in the grasp of Joe Quesada.

Besides, the TMNT fit better in DC.

[ZariusTwo]

Shove Quesada, what if THE premiere Marvel hack Bendis got a hold on TMNT?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Shove Quesada, what if THE premiere Marvel hack Bendis got a hold on TMNT?

Then Wolverine would replace Raphael. And Spider-Man would become team leader.

[Ratchet]

Blech! Not Marvel. Actually, not anyone. As soon as Dreamwave got a hold of Turtles they became elitists about it. Check Murph's note at the start of Tales #2. Marvel would do the same. Sure we might get some 'bigger' names, but that doesn't mean they're any better. The Turtles team at the moment really throw themselves into the books, and I'd rather it keep going the way it is than see another company take hold. I'm sure this whole thread is getting blown way out of proportion, and porbably shouldn't even exist. So they haven't worked out what they're doing next year... so what? That doesn't immediately spell doom and gloom. The other thing is that I'm pretty sure the most vocal "fans" are a minute portion of the overall fanbase. You can't tell me that we're all there is, and the few letters that appear in the backs of the comics are often written by the same people! The problem is no-one writes in with anything NICE to say!

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Marvel, god no. I wouldn't want to see the TMNT in the grasp of Joe Quesada.


You know what? I must really be tired. I totally read Joe Quesada as Joe Quesadilla. :roll:

Yup, it's bedtime for me....

[ZariusTwo]

Then Wolverine would replace Raphael. And Spider-Man would become team leader.

And the first thing he'd do is kill Casey, then bring him back..as Hawkeye, and Shredder will be punched out by his immortal nemesis...Luke Cage

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

And the first thing he'd do is kill Casey, then bring him back..as Hawkeye, and Shredder will be punched out by his immortal nemesis...Luke Cage

Yeah, but if they were handled by Quesada, he'd kill off April and Shadow, convinced Casey should be a bachelor again.

[Roseangelo]

Look, I have nothing against TMNT having sci-fi. I love sci-fi (including Star Trek) and obviously there's been tons of it in all of the different universes, including the new movie. But at the end of all those sci-fi adventures they've always come home to a normal New York that rejects them. With that element now gone from the stories, I just find there to be something missing. Volume 4 is supposed to be taking place in the here and now of our world, but it's no longer our world. That's what I don't like. Hell, the TMNT walking around freely in Fast Forward doesn't bother me, because it's 100 years in the future and maybe all of that could happen in 100 years.

And I'm not trying to be "elitest," only realistic. As it's been, Volume 4 doesn't sell. Peter may not care about making money, but if he wants the franchise to continue and be taken seriously, it would be in everyone's best interest for Mirage to publish a comic book that sold to more than just the existing hardcore fans. All those kids buying action figures right now are going to grow up, and as it stands they're not going to have TMNT comic books to discover like most of us eventually did.

Peter has made alot of great business decisions in recent years that have benefitted all of us, and I love him for that. I just think he needs to step back from some of the other stuff. It's not bad, it's just change.

[Chris]

I think there's room for both - Vol. 4 for the hardcore fans and a new modern day "Ultimate" style retelling that could be sold mass market and hopefully turn a profit.

That said would Peter Laird want that? He's been stretched thin as it is.

After all he's done for us recently (the new movie, the lost season, continuing a book without making any profit, etc) I think he's earned a bit of a break. I just hope he does return to Vol. 4 soon, to wrap it up properly if not to continue it as a full ongoing title again.

Though I must admit I'm unsure why Tales has to end just because the main series is taking a break. It's been going so well and I really want to see it reach at least 50 issues (heck I'd love 50 to be by Eastman and Laird but that's just fanboy dreaming).

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

As far as the Marvel possibility goes I would really only want it because Marvel is really good at making trade paperbacks of older stuff. I wish Laird would stop being a George Lucas and realize that his stuff was great and doesn't need to be changed.

[Raph'N'Roll]

Roseangelo:But at the end of all those sci-fi adventures they've always come home to a normal New York that rejects them. With that element now gone from the stories, I just find there to be something missing. Volume 4 is supposed to be taking place in the here and now of our world, but it's no longer our world. That's what I don't like.

I thoroughly agree with you Roseangelo, this massive change in the Turtles world was taken far too lightly and should really have been a 4 or 5 part arc set in the future or an alternate reality.
The whole stealth aspect of their Ninja skills are pretty much redundant in a New York that accepts them.
I've always loved the fact that they didn't fit into normal society, and to me VOL 4 feels just as out of continuity as Image's VOL 3.
Splinter's death which should have been a huge story, was dealt with far too quickly and with a certain lack of emotion.
Remember the Issue from volume 1 were April gives her thoughts on each of the Turtles, and how she feels after meeting her new friends, well they could have done an issue like this, that instead deals with each of the four Turtles feeling's and how they've been affected by the passing of their master.
As for Aprils silly pencil sketch origin, well the less said about that the better, although Tales of April was pretty good.

I would like to see VOL 4 finished and most of the loose ends tied up, and to be honest I don't mind it ending, because I don't like the universe they occupy in this volume.
The worst thing about this is that if there is a volume 5, the Turtles will still be in this Alien populated New York.
I'd love to see Tales continue though, I was hoping this would be the first Turtles comic to reach issue 100, but that doesn't seem likely now.

[ZariusTwo]

Splinter's death which should have been a huge story, was dealt with far too quickly and with a certain lack of emotion.

Aunt May's (temporary) death was covered in two issues of Spider-Man. Beutifully. Splinter's death took two issues to cover. Beutifully.

Stop looking for problems that don't exist.

As for Aprils silly pencil sketch origin, well the less said about that the better, although Tales of April was pretty good..

"Tales of April"...hmmm, what was that again...what, oh what was that again? Oh yeah, a story that continued a plot hole from Volume Four, a story that closed it out and put April back on track and refocused her. Wow, how could the so-called "fans" miss that one during their blind negative rampage?

"Tales of April" was proof that the current publication could still be used to tell storylines Volume Four could'nt close out.

I think there's room for both - Vol. 4 for the hardcore fans and a new modern day "Ultimate" style retelling that could be sold mass market and hopefully turn a profit.

Are you cheaply plugging that UTMNT idea? :P

That said would Peter Laird want that? He's been stretched thin as it is.

After all he's done for us recently (the new movie, the lost season, continuing a book without making any profit, etc) I think he's earned a bit of a break. I just hope he does return to Vol. 4 soon, to wrap it up properly if not to continue it as a full ongoing title again.

Though I must admit I'm unsure why Tales has to end just because the main series is taking a break. It's been going so well and I really want to see it reach at least 50 issues (heck I'd love 50 to be by Eastman and Laird but that's just fanboy dreaming).


TMNT has become a theatrical powerhouse and could very well have a guaranteed sequel, which obviously needs to go through different scripts, ideas, storylines, castings, release dates, and god knows what else. With FF renewed and slowly becoming a show the fans are liking, he has to make sure the consistency is good enough to keep the show alive.

The franchise as a buisness has killed the TMNT comics, a consequence of becoming too big.

[The Shelf]

I think everyone would do well to just calm down and chill out. This is all purely speculation at this point so no one has the slightest idea whether or not TMNT, Tales, or Mirage will die out anytime soon. I really don't think they will. There's certainly no reason to think that Mirage will die or go out of business or whatever people are saying about it these days. Peter's still planning to release a bunch of TPBs and Tales has solicitations through August.

As for those who think that the turtles should be taken over by another company or at least revamped... I must emphatically disagree. I love that the turtles are older now and changing. Keyword there: changing. That is what makes Mirage so much better than any other comic book company out there right now. Their characters have changed. Look at Marvel or DC. Most of their flagship characters have experienced very little real change throughout their decades of existence. Marvel finally worked up the guts to change their universe around the last couple years, and it has made them interesting again. The turtles are allowed to roam free finally, and that opens up all sorts of character-developing possibilities. But people don't like it because they don't like change. Apparently, they want the turtles to be another Spider-man or Captain America or Hulk where they constantly revert back to their original state after every adventure. Nobody wants anything to be permanent, and that makes for very stale writing. Marvel and DC are only successful because they have sold themselves as slaves to that type of writing.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I never want the turtles comic books to be very popular because the exact same thing would happen to them. The cartoons and movies and whatnot can be as popular as sauce on spaghetti, but please let the comics continue the way they are.

People may not like how Splinter's death was handled, but the important thing is that he's dead and he's never coming back. That may sound sadistic of me, but it's great for the stories because it forces the turtles and their supporting characters to move on and grow. And we don't have to worry about Laird bringing Splinter back because Mirage isn't Marvel. Splinter may come back in some other form, or there may be a clone of him somewhere along the line, but Splinter himself is dead. That will never be retconned.

Also, I'm astounded that so many people hated April's origin. That issue is one of the greatest single comic book issues I've ever read. Laird took a crystal that was only ever mentioned in one issue of the comic around twenty years ago (as far as I know, anyway; it may have been mentioned in a couple other issues that I'm not aware of), and tied it to a main character who is very close to the main character of the issue where that crystal was first seen to begin with. I've never seen that happen with any other comic story, but then, maybe I just don't read enough comics.

I'll quit rambling, but... I'm afraid that the day Laird stops writing comics the way he wants and starts writing stories only to appeal to the masses will be a sad day for Mirage. That sort of thing should be left to the cartoons.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. Mike might actually have kids! I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned more often. I would want Laird to continue Volume 4 just for Mike's sake alone. If he continued all the rest of the stories, they would just be icing on the cake.

[Kendamu]

As much as I'd hate to see the stories end, the Mirage continuity is published independently and I would like it to stay that way.

If the TMNT are ever done by a bigger company then those stories can be their own universe.

[OldSchooler]

I think ultimately the comics continuing comes down to two people. Peter Laird and Gary Richardson. If Pete does decide to pack it in, then I think it'll come down to Gary Richardson deciding on where the money should be going. If Tales isn't making money, then it could well be that they give it the chop. :\

[Sparvid]

Mirage Comics ending? Without any reprints of Volume One in trade format? If that's the case, I wouldn't mind Marvel buying the rights or something. Seriously, I think it would be great for getting the old comics back out there into comic stores as trades, and it would beat having no more turtles comic releases. Marvel is great at making their old comics available.
A company like Marvel handling the reprints sounds like a great idea.

No, unfortunatly you're not, there's too many "fans" LIKE you, and it showed in the letters pages of Volume Four. Bitter and stuck up, under the pretentious mentality there "owed" something, despite all you have received in contrast to one, unprofitable comic that does'nt meet your elitist expectations.
Isn't it strange how Tales in general apparently lives up to those "elitist expectations"..?

Aunt May's (temporary) death was covered in two issues of Spider-Man. Beutifully. Splinter's death took two issues to cover. Beutifully.

Stop looking for problems that don't exist.
I'd have to check out the early Clone Saga issues to be sure, but as far as I remember, Aunt May's health got worse, which was the reaon for Ben Reilly to return, and then she passed away 5-6 months later (although I'm sure she didn't appear in every single issue of all four titles during those months)

Speaking of Aunt May, I've got this great idea for the next Spider-Man writer: Let's reveal that Aunt May in reality is an Alien. Robot. From the future.
It's flawless!

[Chris]

Aunt May's (temporary) death was covered in two issues of Spider-Man. Beutifully. Splinter's death took two issues to cover. Beutifully.

I have to agree, I had tears in my eyes reading Leo's farewell in #11.

Are you cheaply plugging that UTMNT idea? :P

Actually as far as I was aware there has never been an "Ultimate" TMNT idea, the closest thing would be the current cartoon. All I was meaning to say was that Vol. 4 is loosing money and readership is unlikely to increase much (sad but true as I love the book). To get to a new modern audience a new, more main stream book would be needed, set when the TMNT were in their mid-teens rather than mid-thirties. I simply used the word "Ultimate" as that seems to be what the majority of people call modern retellings/revamps (Marvel have done really well with brand image here).

Personally I'd read both. I'd never want the Mirage continuity to end in favor of a new telling, but to reach a new audience (and with the movie now is probably the best time) a new title would be needed. No reason both couldn't exist - Vol. 4 would be the same as it is now, Peter's labor of love and a gift to the fans, and "Ultimate" TMNT (for lack of a better title) would be the modern day retelling for the main stream just getting into the TMNT now.

Of course there's absolutely no need for that type of retelling so long as Peter is happy just doing Vol. 4 for the fans and not turning a profit. It would only ever be needed if he wanted to bring the title into the main stream. Of course the Vol. 1 TPB reprints could serve to do the same thing if we're lucky.

[JAkeBlack]

Mirage is not going out of business...

There will always be TMNT comics -- whether in Mirage continuity or through companies like Titan who are publishing the upcoming FF-based series (featuring work by writers like me, Tristan, and I think even Murphy...)

And there have been NO decisions made about publishing or anything. It's all rumor and speculation based on Peter's writer's block, etc.

[Chris]

Thanks Jake, that's great to hear.

Hopefully there's still plenty of good years left in both Vol. 4 and Tales Vol. 2

[Aztec General]

Mirage is not going out of business...

There will always be TMNT comics -- whether in Mirage continuity or through companies like Titan who are publishing the upcoming FF-based series (featuring work by writers like me, Tristan, and I think even Murphy...)

And there have been NO decisions made about publishing or anything. It's all rumor and speculation based on Peter's writer's block, etc.


That is good news Jake. Sweet a new TMNT comic line!

[Andres P.]

Mirage is not going out of business...

There will always be TMNT comics -- whether in Mirage continuity or through companies like Titan who are publishing the upcoming FF-based series (featuring work by writers like me, Tristan, and I think even Murphy...)

And there have been NO decisions made about publishing or anything. It's all rumor and speculation based on Peter's writer's block, etc.

You can take a look here!

http://andresponce.blogspot.com/2007/04/turtles-beyond.html

...and rigth now I`m drawing another story writen by Jack himself!

A!:)

[Ninjinister]

"Tales of April"...hmmm, what was that again...what, oh what was that again? Oh yeah, a story that continued a plot hole from Volume Four, a story that closed it out and put April back on track and refocused her. Wow, how could the so-called "fans" miss that one during their blind negative rampage?

"Tales of April" was proof that the current publication could still be used to tell storylines Volume Four could'nt close out.

I'd have to agree with that. I never read the actual April's origin issue, but I have heard the ruckus created as such. However, I do own "Tales of April", and that seems like a valentine to fans on the subject, beautifully closing out that subplot.

[Raph's Girl]

There will always be TMNT comics -- whether in Mirage continuity or through companies like Titan who are publishing the upcoming FF-based series (featuring work by writers like me, Tristan, and I think even Murphy...)


Wha?! A FF series?! It's UK only tho? *pouts*

Ooh.. I love the look of Splinter in that. :D

[bullet]

Mirage is not going out of business...

There will always be TMNT comics -- whether in Mirage continuity or through companies like Titan who are publishing the upcoming FF-based series (featuring work by writers like me, Tristan, and I think even Murphy...)

And there have been NO decisions made about publishing or anything. It's all rumor and speculation based on Peter's writer's block, etc.

well that solves that :P

great to hear.

[CyberCubed]

Is the FF comic going to be published in America at some point? It looks pretty cool and considering TMNT's biggest audience is presumedly in the U.S., it would be interesting to see it.

It's a shame the Dreamwave series ended after only 7 issues because the 2k3 series never had an ongoing comic counterpart. The old toon had the Archie series and the Dreamwave series would have been nice as the 2k3's counterpart. This FF comic series could be a nice counterpart as well.

[Raph'N'Roll]

ZariusTwo: Aunt May's (temporary) death was covered in two issues of Spider-Man. Beutifully. Splinter's death took two issues to cover. Beutifully.

Stop looking for problems that don't exist.

That is YOUR OPINION, it's NOT MINE.
People have different opinions, and that's what makes the world both interesting and sometimes annoying, and that's how it should be.
I didn't like the way they handled Splinter's death, you did, can you not accept that, rather than attack fans and accuse them of looking for problems, WTF??
I'm not trying to find problems that don't exist, I just think that Splinters death was far more interesting, and deserved more coverage than a group of talking Dinosaurs that I couldn't give a toss about.

[VaughnMichael]

Aunt May's (temporary) death was covered in two issues of Spider-Man. Beutifully. Splinter's death took two issues to cover. Beutifully.
Splinter death was hardly covered gracefully in one issue let alone two.
Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining about the April Nanobot storyline making Splinters death story suffer.
And I'd say Master Splinter's Death is allot more Special than Aunt May.
He was pretty much the Glue in the turtles lives in every single incarnation of the comic and shows.
I just think that tale should have held off a bit at least for an issue to make at least one entire issue dedicated to the master of the turtles not just a few measly panels.
I don't want some big woopty doo funeral I'd have preferred a nice look back at his life rather than that.
I Also think it would have been fitting if Peter Laird had drawn the issue also.
There really wasn't that big oomph to the issue besides Michael Dooneys beautiful cover as usual.
But there's really no point in anyone complaining at all about Splinters death at this point it's done and he's gone besides in the pages of Tales of TMNT.
Stop looking for problems that don't exist.
Dude no one's looking for problems perhaps they're over analyzing things a bit to much since the fact that it's only a comic book. But I'd hardly say the majority of people are looking for things that are wrong.
If they don't like Jim Lawsons art or anything else for that matter doesn't make it wrong sure they could be more civil about it but it's not wrong to have your ow opinion it never is even and especially if someone else disagrees with it. You should never change what you as a person believe in I would think you of all people would know this because you believe your opinions to always be the highest truth.
"Tales of April"...hmmm, what was that again...what, oh what was that again? Oh yeah, a story that continued a plot hole from Volume Four, a story that closed it out and put April back on track and refocused her. Wow, how could the so-called "fans" miss that one during their blind negative rampage?
Zarius can I seriously ask you something for a moment? And I am not being a jerk here.
Why are you always so angry? Well Not all the time but most of the time anyway You let these people get to you more than you really need to. It's just like when I'd get Angry over people Bashing Fast Forward you don't see me jumping down peoples throats for such things I usually make a light hearted joke about it.
You know it's not good for you though your going to end up getting stomach ulcers trust me I know. :(
Anyway Yes Tales of April is Brilliant I really loved it and the issue touched me deeply.
That being said how could the fans forgetting it? Easily the Issue was single handily the hardest issue for me to track down I finally found it last month on ebay and paid over $5.00 + shipping for the thing but I must say it was very much worth the wait and money.
"Tales of April" was proof that the current publication could still be used to tell storylines Volume Four could'nt close out.
It sure is and thus proof that Tales Vol. 2 is much better than tmnt vol.4 Simply because it can do something Vol. 4 can't which makes the series just brilliant in my mind which is the fact that they can tell tales from just about any time period of the turtles or other characters lives and still make it fit in.
Isn't it strange how Tales in general apparently lives up to those "elitist expectations"..? You know it's comments like this that will divide any fanbase.
Tales has many reason that it's more well accepted than Vol.4
Like I said before the telling of the story's can take place at any period of time continuing past story's, opening new ones from characters long gone, and even going into the future or perhaps even dreams.
The art isn't always the best which is always a matter of opinion but it is very interesting to have so many different and up coming indie artist working on these comics.
I think these are just a few things that allow people to enjoy Tales vol. 2 so much more than TMNT vol. 4 because you can pick up just about any issue of tales (if u can find it) and read it and not need to be clued in as to what happened 5 issues ago.
I'd also like to say something but not in the defense of people complaining but Simply just to state that people getting angry over change is nothing new it's always happened be it something large or something small people are always going to get angry and complain over there favorite character being changed even if it's so much as a costume change or loosing a tooth. It all seems pretty petty if you sit and think about everything else going on around us.
Actually as far as I was aware there has never been an "Ultimate" TMNT idea, the closest thing would be the current cartoon. All I was meaning to say was that Vol. 4 is loosing money and readership is unlikely to increase much (sad but true as I love the book). To get to a new modern audience a new, more main stream book would be needed, set when the TMNT were in their mid-teens rather than mid-thirties. I simply used the word "Ultimate" as that seems to be what the majority of people call modern retellings/revamps (Marvel have done really well with brand image here).
Personally I'd read both. I'd never want the Mirage continuity to end in favor of a new telling, but to reach a new audience (and with the movie now is probably the best time) a new title would be needed. No reason both couldn't exist - Vol. 4 would be the same as it is now, Peter's labor of love and a gift to the fans, and "Ultimate" TMNT (for lack of a better title) would be the modern day retelling for the main stream just getting into the TMNT now.

There's just talk amongst fans pretty much I'm not sure if on here but I've spoken to a few people on aim who would love an ultimate tmnt with all the characters ever sans a few very silly ones of course.
I don't see the problem with it at all myself if it was handled correctly.
You can take a look here!
http://andresponce.blogspot.com/2007/04/turtles-beyond.html
...and rigth now I`m drawing another story writen by Jack himself!
A!:)
WOW! Beautiful art thanks so much for sharing with us!
Man I really hope I can find this!

[ZariusTwo]

Is the FF comic going to be published in America at some point? It looks pretty cool and considering TMNT's biggest audience is presumedly in the U.S., it would be interesting to see it.

Not to mention it's the first TMNT comic to be written by Simon Furman (though his strip work on Power Rangers in Jetix Magazine was half-ass, it still had some decent material in it)

[ZariusTwo]

Zarius can I seriously ask you something for a moment? And I am not being a jerk here.
Why are you always so angry? Well Not all the time but most of the time anyway You let these people get to you more than you really need to.!

Because I'm a fan whose never had a problem with Laird's workload, I've enjoyed every inch of it, and any lapse in some of the serialized arcs I've understood and respected due to the work load he's undertaking. These fans not only choose NOT to understand, they deliberatley don't respect it.

[VaughnMichael]

Because I'm a fan whose never had a problem with Laird's workload, I've enjoyed every inch of it, and any lapse in some of the serialized arcs I've understood and respected due to the work load he's undertaking. These fans not only choose NOT to understand, they deliberatley don't respect it.
Well I'm a fan who's never had a problem with tmnt period lol *shruggs*
Even when the craps been flung at us from all directions.
And as you've come to see over time I'm not just some run of the mill fan who fallows everything tossed at me some times I've got a baseball bat ready to hit the crap back at them.
While I agree there is a lack of respect these days for the creator of a franchise we all love I don't think they're doing it intentionally.
I do think they have a right to be a bit ticked about a few things.
But much like I've said over in the Fast Forward topics it's just simple change be it bad or good people just can't handle it and they never will.
Especially a quick sudden change much of which Vol.4 and FF both are they also both take place in the future. I'm really starting to think people just hate the future unless it's dark foreboding and evil.
I don't know about you or anyone else but I honestly don't wish that on myself let alone the Turtles.
And Sure Laird has allot on his plate but as easily as he shrugs fans off to not read the comic if they don't like it I'll just as easily say he can't really use the excuse of having to much on his plate perhaps his eyes are just bigger than his proverbial stomach.
Like I said before and a few people have agreed He really needs some help Be it Kevin Monroe or someone else close to Peter but I think at this point the man can hardly handle the work load alone.
I'd honestly rather you resort to proving them wrong and showing them up by the way rather than resorting to name calling and grouping people together because your going to offend allot of innocent people who while they don't agree or like allot of things that came from Vol. 4 they don't hate it nor do they hate Laird.
This isn't directed at you but others but I'm also sick as hell of people using the excuse that he owes us something or we owe him something for all these years.
No, the real fact of the matter is this if it wasn't for Peter & Kevin there would never have been a TMNT there would never be any of us here talking and if it wasn't for us falling for it all over and over time and time again there would be no them it really goes hand in hand.

[ZariusTwo]

Well I'm a fan who's never had a problem with tmnt period lol *shruggs*
Even when the craps been flung at us from all directions.
And as you've come to see over time I'm not just some run of the mill fan who fallows everything tossed at me some times I've got a baseball bat ready to hit the crap back at them.

But you underestimate the capability of others to duck.:D

As far as FF is concerned, it's got little to do with "fearing change", it's about consistency, and I've never seen it, so goody for you for finding some.:P

Yes, you're not the "run of the mill" kind, as you can actually get along with everyone whose tempers are considerably higher at times, but then you also understand what is good AND bad about FF, some see one thing or another, and they present a much bigger problem when given the platform. Fortunatly, the critics have made FF discussion so uncomfortable and unwelcome, it's never a big topic.

But make no mistake about it, people won't "accept change", this fanbase most certaingly can, people won't accept badly written scripts, that's all.

Proving them wrong really does'nt apply here, the franchise's broad scope is all the evidence I need to stick it to them...and heck, if they did'nt resort to the lows they do, and the sickening behaviour only elitists could POSSIBLY stoop to, I would'nt be grouping them in, I would'nt be saying "that's not passion, that's being an a**hole", because all I get from them is that there fully aware of everything that's going on, they just don't want Pete to suffer from it and expect him to give them everything despite it.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

A company like Marvel handling the reprints sounds like a great idea.


I agree. I wouldn't want them really changing anything else, because TMNT has its own flavor different from Marvel. But I'm saying even when Marvel is in a slump they at least make their old stuff available, which is why it would be cool if Laird handed off the reprint duties to another company if Mirage isn't going to get around to it.

Why they didn't do any reprints in time for the movie, I have no idea. They could have really done well off of that.

[JAkeBlack]

Just to clarify, the art that's up on Andre's site is not from the story he's currently drawing for me...it's from another in the TMNT FF series...

[TristanHuwJones]

Nor is it mine actually... curiouser and curiouser... ;)

[Roseangelo]

I think it's by Simon Furman. He has a little blurb in his blog (http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/).

[longbowhunter]

Well....this has been an interesting thread. Heres my take on all this. I've been a longtime fan of the Turtle comics...all the way back to issue 7 of the original MIRAGE series. I finally quit buying the Turtles on a regular basis sometime during the IMAGE run-the books just werent that good and they were always late/too hard to find. I recently picked up the movie prequel comics by MIRAGE and was amused to see several of them ship late and out of order-some things NEVER change. I have tried to track down some of the back issues of TALES after reading so many glowing reviews here on the boards and all of my regular comic shops had the same thing to say-the Turtle books just dont sell well enough to make them worth the hassle to stock. What Laird ought to do is take a Gene Rodenberry/George Lucas approach-he can oversee all aspects of the Turtles universe and control all the licensing issues,and find an artist/writer team with a love of the Turtles to take over the monthly books. Keep Tales and let it continue as a venue for different creators to tell out of continuity stories. And above all....SHIP THE BOOKS ON TIME!!! Yeah,I know its the legacy of MIRAGE to ship late,but in this day and age missed deadlines is the number one complaint from store owners...one of my local stores wont even stock ANYTHING by Jim Lee for this very reason. The Turtles are an evergreen property,and it would be a shame for the comics to close up shop just as the movie is introducing the characters to a new generation.

[TristanHuwJones]

...one of my local stores wont even stock ANYTHING by Jim Lee for this very reason.

That's insane! I keep hearing things like this about comic shops over in the U.S.
Being Australian, there aren't that many retailers about, but the ones that are will get in ANYTHING you ask for. My guys won't put sexually explicit material on the shelves, because kids do come in from time to time, but if you can find it online or in Previews or through whoever, they can and will order it.

[VaughnMichael]

That's insane! I keep hearing things like this about comic shops over in the U.S.
Being Australian, there aren't that many retailers about, but the ones that are will get in ANYTHING you ask for. My guys won't put sexually explicit material on the shelves, because kids do come in from time to time, but if you can find it online or in Previews or through whoever, they can and will order it.
Yeah that must be really nice I must just have bad luck with comic shop owners I've had to buy half of my comics off of ebay and trust me I hate having to pay some of the crazy shipping prices some times that people charge...it really shouldn't cost more than 3.00 if even that to ship one comic book to some one.
But anyway I live in los angeles (Hollywood) and we have 3 local shops they get one issue of tales and when it came out either 1 or no issues of vol.4
I ask them to look for back issues for me they tell me they have them but they never get back to me no matter how many times i ask.
I ask them if i can get a subscription they tell me if i order like 5 or 10 other comics..now tell me why would I want to do that when I only read turtles.:roll:

[Murphy]

(Thanks to Mr X for sending me the link to this thread.)

Okay, where to begin?

I don't have that much free time right now, so let me just list a few things:

1. Yes, TMNT V. 4 continues to be "on hold" pending Peter Laird's return to writing/creative work.

2. No, Tales is not cancelled (nor are our quarterly Tales trade reprints or various mini-series).

3. Until such time as one of us Mirage employees/insiders writes an autobiography (or posts a truthful blog), all your speculation as to the workloads, feelings and opinions of Mirage's owner, CEO, or staff members, are just that -- speculation. Really -- and I say this without trying to be a smartass or to be disrespectful -- you all haven't a clue as to what goes on here. Neither do the freelancers who work for us. You all would be quite surprised if you knew the truth.

4. To the person who ragged on Mirage for getting the movie comics out a little late and for letting #4 (April) ship before #3 (Don), consider this: Mirage Publishing consists of two people: myself and the part-time Eric Talbot (on production). And I only devote maybe 15% of my time to Publishing, the rest being centered on Licensing. I think the fact that Eric and I got six comic books out in one month was nothing short of a miracle. Oh, and you can blame the primary inker on the Don Prequel for that book being so late.

5. Mirage comic books are available to all comic book retail shops. Any shop that doesn't carry TMNT has made the conscious decision not to.

6. Mirage's trade paperbacks are not available to book stores such as B&N because Mirage made the business decision not to deal with book stores because of the issue of book store "returns" (unsold copies being returned to a publisher). Mirage just doesn't have the support staff to deal with such a thing. Nor do we have a sales staff, or marketing staff, or...

Don't get me started. Thanks.
-m.

[GK Punk]

6. Mirage's trade paperbacks are not available to book stores such as B&N because Mirage made the business decision not to deal with book stores because of the issue of book store "returns" (unsold copies being returned to a publisher). Mirage just doesn't have the support staff to deal with such a thing. Nor do we have a sales staff, or marketing staff, or...

Don't get me started. Thanks.
-m.

I always wondered about that. I can find the most random of things and my local borders, but never TMNT. Now I understand why that is. Thanks for clarifying that.

[The Shelf]

Murphy, thank you so much for taking the time to set everyone straight. People can be so quick to jump to extreme conclusions at even the slightest rumor. It's annoying, quite frankly, and I'm happy you took the time to clear things up.

[CyberCubed]

Murphy, thank you for coming here. We appreciate it.

Just curious, but is the Archie comics "Forever war" still in progress?

[GK Punk]

I would really like to know the answer to that as well

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Murphy! *hugs* Glad you stopped by and blew the whistle on this thing--it was starting to get out of hand. Thanks for setting the record straight. :thumbsup:

[Andres P.]

About the TMNT:FF comics...

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/117732018217559.htm

Scroll down...:D

A!

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

About the TMNT:FF comics...

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/117732018217559.htm

Scroll down...:D

A!

Oh snap! I'm gonna have to get that. Can't wait to see how Raph's prequel comic will look. And 52 pages weekly?! Goodness...

[Time Mistress]

Not to mention it's the first TMNT comic to be written by Simon Furman (though his strip work on Power Rangers in Jetix Magazine was half-ass, it still had some decent material in it)

Simon Furman writing TMNT?!:thyper: When? What issue? And how can I get a copy here in the US?

Edit: goes and reads link provided

Cool! May 10th huh? Is there any way to order the Marvel UK stuff here in the US? I want the new Transformers comic too!

[ZariusTwo]

3. Until such time as one of us Mirage employees/insiders writes an autobiography (or posts a truthful blog), all your speculation as to the workloads, feelings and opinions of Mirage's owner, CEO, or staff members, are just that -- speculation. Really -- and I say this without trying to be a smartass or to be disrespectful -- you all haven't a clue as to what goes on here. Neither do the freelancers who work for us. You all would be quite surprised if you knew the truth.-m.

Well done Murph, I was getting a little too cosy with how nice some of you were when some of these clowns did'nt deserve it with their ass-tight behaviour. I commend you setting the record straight with a bit more force. Until there in the industry, they don't know squat about it, that applies to almost everything, even beyond the comic's pace and scheduling.

[zkarlette]

Im really glad that Murphy came to set things straight, lately I feel that some fans are getting very judgemental and full of complaints ( comics , movie toon etc..) instead of thanking the Mirage crew for taking their time on keeping TMNT alive .As they say it must be a lot of work for a small company.

[Fledermaus]

2. No, Tales is not cancelled (nor are our quarterly Tales trade reprints or various mini-series).

Now THAT is confirmation. :D (Answering my main concern with a simple, resounding 'NO: That rumor is complete and utter bullcrap.')

Wow, I can't believe you dared venture into this hellpit. :lol: Thanks for restoring the sanity to the thread. (More like introducing it.)

EDIT: lately I feel that some fans are getting very judgemental and full of complaints ( comics , movie toon etc..) instead of thanking the Mirage crew for taking their time on keeping TMNT alive .As they say it must be a lot of work for a small company.

Aye... a humbling truth that should never be forgotten. :( Though I "judge" comics, that's not to say I am unthankful for what Mirage does manage to publish or that I disapprove of ALL aspects of the Volume 4, or that I don't do my part when I have some spare cash to support the comics. I fail to express my deep thanks in every post where I criticize (because I'm a fan -- if I didn't care then I wouldn't bother with criticisms), though starting now (especially when it comes to comics) I think ought to make a habit of acknowledging the intense struggle to keep TMNT alive. It's amazing that TMNT is still going.... it's just incredible. I spend so much time thinking about how things could be better when the reality is that TMNT just lacks the manpower (among many other things that I simply cannot know because I don't regularly work at Mirage) to make those things happen.

[Kendamu]

(Thanks to Mr X for sending me the link to this thread.)

Okay, where to begin?

I don't have that much free time right now, so let me just list a few things:

1. Yes, TMNT V. 4 continues to be "on hold" pending Peter Laird's return to writing/creative work.

2. No, Tales is not cancelled (nor are our quarterly Tales trade reprints or various mini-series).

3. Until such time as one of us Mirage employees/insiders writes an autobiography (or posts a truthful blog), all your speculation as to the workloads, feelings and opinions of Mirage's owner, CEO, or staff members, are just that -- speculation. Really -- and I say this without trying to be a smartass or to be disrespectful -- you all haven't a clue as to what goes on here. Neither do the freelancers who work for us. You all would be quite surprised if you knew the truth.

4. To the person who ragged on Mirage for getting the movie comics out a little late and for letting #4 (April) ship before #3 (Don), consider this: Mirage Publishing consists of two people: myself and the part-time Eric Talbot (on production). And I only devote maybe 15% of my time to Publishing, the rest being centered on Licensing. I think the fact that Eric and I got six comic books out in one month was nothing short of a miracle. Oh, and you can blame the primary inker on the Don Prequel for that book being so late.

5. Mirage comic books are available to all comic book retail shops. Any shop that doesn't carry TMNT has made the conscious decision not to.

6. Mirage's trade paperbacks are not available to book stores such as B&N because Mirage made the business decision not to deal with book stores because of the issue of book store "returns" (unsold copies being returned to a publisher). Mirage just doesn't have the support staff to deal with such a thing. Nor do we have a sales staff, or marketing staff, or...

Don't get me started. Thanks.
-m.
You could just have the book stores "return" them to my apartment! I'll distribute them (into a box for safekeeping) from there! Hehehe!

[iris]

This concludes the current installment of "Our Wild Speculation." Tune in next time when we will follow the reclusive Zarius zephyrydum as it struggles to defend its harem from amitory aardvarks.

[Aztec General]

Let the record show that I was started this thread to DISCUSS the POSSIBILITY based upon comments from an actual Mirage employee. Then I simply gave my OPINION of what COULD happen if it WERE true.

I did not jumpt to any conclusions.

With all of that said, thanks Murph.

[longbowhunter]

Well....to be honest...maybe Mirage has too much on their plate. I think its great that two people can produce/write/distribute/oversee an entire comics compay,but Mirage has missed a lot of opportunities. The Turtles have a HUGE fan base,and yet not many stores carry the Mirage comics-because of the reasons stated above. And while I certainly understand the decision NOT to deal with book stores due to the issue of returns,why not do as someone else suggested and license the printing of the trades to another company like Marvel or Dark Horse? When the movie came out,the price of the out of print trades skyrocketed on Ebay...there is obviously still a demand for the old stories and the release of the movie was the perfect opportunity to capitalize on them. I cant help but compare the Turtles with Hellboy. Hellboy has become MUCH more mainstream in the last few years and thats thanks mostly to the way Dark Horse has promoted and supported the property. With a little bit better promotion behind them,the Turtles could be just as popular and profitable as they were at their height in the 80's.

[cormano]

I got here late, I just wanted to say that I really hope Volume 4 continues at some point at least long enough to wrap up the current story lines. Despite what seems to be the overall feel of people in this thread, I love it and think it's the best Turtles comic since the early days of Kevin and Pete on Volume 1.

It's good to know that we'll at least have Tales, which I also enjoy, but more or less so depending on the creative team of each issue. Also, forget all the complaints about the lateness of the prequel comics. It really is amazing that we got six comics based on the movie, five of which I really enjoyed :P.

[Roseangelo]

Well....to be honest...maybe Mirage has too much on their plate. I think its great that two people can produce/write/distribute/oversee an entire comics compay,but Mirage has missed a lot of opportunities. The Turtles have a HUGE fan base,and yet not many stores carry the Mirage comics-because of the reasons stated above. And while I certainly understand the decision NOT to deal with book stores due to the issue of returns,why not do as someone else suggested and license the printing of the trades to another company like Marvel or Dark Horse? When the movie came out,the price of the out of print trades skyrocketed on Ebay...there is obviously still a demand for the old stories and the release of the movie was the perfect opportunity to capitalize on them. I cant help but compare the Turtles with Hellboy. Hellboy has become MUCH more mainstream in the last few years and thats thanks mostly to the way Dark Horse has promoted and supported the property. With a little bit better promotion behind them,the Turtles could be just as popular and profitable as they were at their height in the 80's.

This is basically how I feel, although I probably come off as an ass in the process. I do love that the TMNT come from a small company, but maybe two people-small is a little too small?

Thanks for posting, Murph.

[Raph's Girl]

OMG! The TMNT comic is a WEEKLY?! Hmm.. *pushes 52 and Countdown aside* Dude... I hope this really comes to Barnes & Noble in the u.s like I read it would! There's no comic store near me at all but there's a B&N just up the street! :evilgrin:

[Tabularasa]

Same here. I understand the reasons why they are not in B&N or Borders, but I can't get my hands on a lot of comics mainly because the comic book store is pretty far from where I am.

[FearlessLeader]

As always great to hear from you Murphy!

In case you look at this thread again I would love to take this chance to tell you how much I enjoyed your work on the Leo prequel comic. It was my favorite of the bunch, very well written with a very gripping story.

[JAkeBlack]

Just learned the FF comics are monthly, not weekly, but they will in fact feature colorized versions of the Prequel books.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Thanks Jake, that sounds a heck of a lot more reasonable. :thumbsup:

[Raph's Girl]

Just learned the FF comics are monthly, not weekly, but they will in fact feature colorized versions of the Prequel books.

Oh.. Monthly...hmm.. yea I guess that makes more sense in the long run. Still Im gonna be heading over to my local B&N in May. :lol: Thanks for the heads up Jake. :D

[TristanHuwJones]

You got me all excited Jake! Monthly does make more sense though...

[Spitfire]

Well done Murph, I was getting a little too cosy with how nice some of you were when some of these clowns did'nt deserve it with their ass-tight behaviour. I commend you setting the record straight with a bit more force. Until there in the industry, they don't know squat about it, that applies to almost everything, even beyond the comic's pace and scheduling.

I'd like to see you apply that to your senseless FF bashing then. If he reads the comic section I'm sure he reads the TV section too.

Way to be a total hypocrite.

Also maybe I'm in the dark here but what are FF comics? Fast Forward? I hope not, I don't think I can handle another toon comic, but I'd get it anyways.

[wyze2099]

Just learned the FF comics are monthly, not weekly, but they will in fact feature colorized versions of the Prequel books.

That sounds like great news! I'm really interested in seeing what the prequel pages look like in color, and to be honest, a lot of the artwork in the movie adaptation seemed more suited for color than black-and-white.

[Raph'N'Roll]

Originally Posted by longbowhunter
Well....to be honest...maybe Mirage has too much on their plate. I think its great that two people can produce/write/distribute/oversee an entire comics compay,but Mirage has missed a lot of opportunities. The Turtles have a HUGE fan base,and yet not many stores carry the Mirage comics-because of the reasons stated above. And while I certainly understand the decision NOT to deal with book stores due to the issue of returns,why not do as someone else suggested and license the printing of the trades to another company like Marvel or Dark Horse? When the movie came out,the price of the out of print trades skyrocketed on Ebay...there is obviously still a demand for the old stories and the release of the movie was the perfect opportunity to capitalize on them. I cant help but compare the Turtles with Hellboy. Hellboy has become MUCH more mainstream in the last few years and thats thanks mostly to the way Dark Horse has promoted and supported the property. With a little bit better promotion behind them,the Turtles could be just as popular and profitable as they were at their height in the 80's.

I agree dude!

So the UK FF comic is aimed at the younger market, the Raphael prequel will be censored for sure, shame that.

[Ratchet]

Also maybe I'm in the dark here but what are FF comics? Fast Forward? I hope not, I don't think I can handle another toon comic, but I'd get it anyways.

Yes, it is. And to use Peter Laird's thinking... why? Why get something you don't want?

[iris]

Why get something you don't want?
Hello. My name is iris, and I'm a TMNTaholic.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Hello, iris. *nods*

[VaughnMichael]

Hello. My name is iris, and I'm a TMNTaholic.
Hello Iris I am also a TMNTaholic:cry:

[Vegita-San]

I agree wholeheartedly. I just assume he hasn't done this because he's stubborn. I know it's his characters and his book blahblahblah, but it would be nice if he could show an ounce of appreciation for the fans, instead of actually telling us not to buy the book. A little fan service could go a long way.

I also think that some people just aren't prepared for the demands that 'fame' bring them. Pete to me seems like a very quiet, very laid back guy who doesn't care to have allot of pressure on him.

He just got done producing a multi-million dollar movie, probably hasn't read all the comics consisting of Volume 4 since he got done to help remind him where he is with all the story points, has to deal with whether or not a movie sequel could, should, would be made....etc. That's allot of business decisions for any one person.

Myself, I'd love to see him oversee the book, but he could have someone else come up with the stories, and especially art. I LOVED what Jim did with Return to New York, and I still don't mind his turtles, but his humans STILL look atrocious. I prefer as close to detail and realistic drawings as possible. Take the 1994 season of TMNT compared to the, say, terrible art of 'Landlord of the Flys' for example as a comparison. Straight, detailed lines, lots of attention to detail, compared to unfinished looking draft drawings.

I dont' know who could take over, however. I don't really pay attention to Mirage style drawings all that much. Maybe they could hire one of the TV animators or something?

[ZariusTwo]

I'd like to see you apply that to your senseless FF bashing then. If he reads the comic section I'm sure he reads the TV section too.

Way to be a total hypocrite.

That would make sense if my "senesless" bashings did'nt come with reason, and they have in the past.I know full well the circumstances behind FF's toning down etc, I just have never liked how they went around it. That can change, as plenty can.

And heck, they could have easily took an open mike and bashed me anytime, but no, they did'nt, Murph lost his cool with these people in particular because they DON'T understand or respect anything that comes with handling a franchise this big from an independent publication

As for the FF comics, where the hell have you been? There was already a seperate thread announcing that magazine,
maybe if you could get your priorities straight as a fan first and a vindictive ass with grudges against FF critics second, you'd be able to follow up a little better.

[Bry]

And while I certainly understand the decision NOT to deal with book stores due to the issue of returns,why not do as someone else suggested and license the printing of the trades to another company like Marvel or Dark Horse? When the movie came out,the price of the out of print trades skyrocketed on Ebay...there is obviously still a demand for the old stories and the release of the movie was the perfect opportunity to capitalize on them.
I'm glad that Mirage has been releasing some trade paperbacks recently, though I have to agree that not re-releasing the original stories around the time the movie came out was a missed opportunity. The colourized first 12 issues previously released by First Publishing would make for a great all-in-one package (Absolute TMNT, anyone?) and "City at War" is just begging to be collected as well. I hope we see them eventually - sooner than later, I hope - and making them available to bookstores would definitely be a smart idea. Licensing the trades out to Dark Horse sounds like it might solve a lot of problems.

[The Shelf]

... and "City at War" is just begging to be collected as well.

YES! Can anyone official tell us whether or not Tales 36 will be collected with the rest of City at War in a new TPB?!?! It's the perfect excuse to release it since Mirage is releasing Tales into TPBs now, and 36 would fit much better with the rest of City at War than with any other Tales stories.

[TristanHuwJones]

As far as I know, there are no plans to collect Tales 36 in with CaW. We all know Pete wants to collect everything in continuity, but that's something I don't know much about either. CaW would be a pretty daunting trade as it is, and collecting it with my book - while very cool - would make it even more so. Who knows too, if everyone digs #36 and it goes down well with the higher ups there might be call for a sequel or something!:lol:

[Tigershard]

I have not posted here in ages. I occasionally come around here because it is a place where TMNT news congregates. I just thought I would throw in some comments because this seems to be a heated issue:

1) Trust Mirage! They haven't let us down over the years, at least in the steady flow of TMNT suff. Everyone has their favorite series/comics in the TMNT-verse and the stuff they can't stand, but we have been getting a nice and steady stream of TMNT related things for many years now. Just as there are many consumers that love TMNT, there are artists and writers who love TMNT as well. I don't see the end of TMNT coming any time soon.

2) Roseangelo made an interesting point about the TMNT being different because they do not need to hide anymore. I have always had the feeling that TMNT and other series such as Gargoyles that deal with alienation and a small but tight nit family always strike close to home for many people. We are always trying to find somewhere to belong, people who can be close to and trust, it touches on a lot of human emotions we often felt as teenagers and maybe many still feel as adults. While I admit, I do like those kind of stories as well, I enjoy seeing the Turtles as adults and facing new problems and dilemmas, such as losing a father and having a family.

3) If TMNT were to disappear from the public eye for a few years... so what? It has happened before, and now it is back. Lions Gate keeps releasing DVDs of the original series that are selling well, and it has been a long time since that aired. Gargoyles disappeared, and now we have a new comic. I think we need to stop speculating on doomsday scenarios, trying to figure out what is going on in the mind of Laird, Mirage employees, and other TMNT artists and writers. As long as we continue to be fans and enjoy the previous offerings, and keep our minds open, we will always be able to look forward to our boys being around. I know this thread is specifically about the comics, but that is why this point is important. Even if the comics disappear for awhile, I'm sure they can make a come-back. Maybe not Vol. 4, maybe a reboot, whatever. I would like to see Vol. 4 finished, but I will take what I can get. If I don't like the next offering, well, I might like the one after that. Don't rob people of their enjoyment of something because YOU personally don't like it. I see people trying to do that to others much too often on this message board, which is one of the reasons I don't frequent much anymore.

Back to lurking, peace!
-TS