Setting the record straight: Peter Laird

[Nobody_At_All]

Don't kid yourselves guys, anytime there's a weirdo choice in the line (which basically means off-color themes or strange "new" character choices) it's all Pete. Remember what Eastman just said in his interview: the creative portion is strictly Laird now.

I've got a few good friends that have worked at Playmates in the recent past (specifically people that worked on 2k3-ff-movie). They all say the same thing:

Peter's not interested in doing "new" versions of any of your beloved characters (80’s or comic…whether they appeared in the show or not), nor new characters from 2k3 in the "movie style.”

Look at Alien Hunters. With a theme like that you'd expect to see new takes on a Triceraton, maybe an Utrom and for good measure Fugitoid. Why? Because they’re obvious thematic choices. I can assure you those were propositioned!

Yes Playmates is going to do toy-ettic "Auto Attack" like figs. to fill a pricepoint at retail, but you bet your buns they're going to push for brand-iconinc main and secondary characters. That's the business that makes sense and makes them money! You don't go and buy Spider-man toys of "made up" villains-- no one would buy 'em. You'd want Venom, Mysterio and the lot. And while a core chunk of the old TMNT business was "made up characters" (which were ridiculously fun) Playmates isn't allowed to "go there" and humanize nor mutate anything (a specific rule from Peter). If you get an anthropromorphic character in the line (like we will with Global Mutant Missions) they must be "already existing or created without mutagen" like a urban legend: Sasquatch or Moth man, that sort of thing.

Bottom line: Peter's always flexing his “creative” power just to feel like he’s accomplishing something. He’s what the industry calls “bad creative,” meaning he holds too tight to his ideas and sadly like a strangling vine around a rosebed, gradually kills the growth, security and beauty of the property. Now that he's "made his peace" with the 2k3 toon he should let others try on TMNT and allow the brand to truly flourish once again (and collect his checks). If Stan Lee kept writing and directing all of his Marvel creations indefinitely, I can guarantee you they wouldn't be around anymore today. His stories and ideas wouldn't have translated era after era without the energy and contextual rationalization of new creative teams. Stan learned early on that he had created something unique and had to "let go" like a good parent. He knew that many of his creations would outlive him. Peter just hasn't got a hold of that one yet and like a greedy child holds tight to his possession, massaging his insecurities.

Playmates can come up with greatest and most awkward choices imaginable for the line, but at the end of the day, the direction and approval comes from somewhere….and I can assure you it’s not from Costa Mesa, CA.


Nobody_At_All

[Toonami Tom]

So according to that information, the rest of the TMNT figures will be screwed up turtle variants, space aliens, and random monsters. That sucks.

On a positive note, I will have more money because I won't be spending it on TMNT figures. That is until NECA's TMNT figures are released.

[VaughnMichael]

You're preaching to the quire more stuff about Peter and playmates I already knew.
It's a shame Kevin had to get out but I can't blame him one bit and i'd say the same thing about kevin if he acted like a two year old but he doesn't he's honest and upfront about his life and himself.
Oh well I don't understand how Neca can make toys of past characters but playmates isn't.
And I believe you about them wanting to do it and Peter turning it all down it's just like Kevin Eastman told Kevin Monroe that you have to make Peter believe he came up with the ideas so they can get made.

[Roseangelo]

Well, I guess it makes me feel like less of a whining fangirl when someone inside the industry is saying the same things I've been saying/thinking for awhile. Maybe I know what I'm talking about after all.

Even back in the 80s, Peter and Kevin didn't do it on their own. They did it with the support and talent of the most awesome crew of people they could have possibly assembled. Without those people, the TMNT universe would be incredibly small. They are evidence of what kinds of greatness can happen when you work with a team of people who know your characters and understand how the creators want those characters to be and how they should grow. I see no such trust in any team today; I only see people who try to get projects approved. The results end up rather disjointed.

If Peter happens to read this, I think all any of us want is to see the TMNT continue for as long as possible, preferably infinately, as characters whose continued stories the public enjoys. Putting so many limitations on what can and can't be done only hurts this from happening. Fifteen issues of comic books can only be stretched so far.

It can't be easy or fun to read so many negative comments directed toward you, but when you're the sole guy in charge, you're the only person to whom such comments can be directed. It's an unfortunate blur of business and person. It's a situation that doesn't happen when people complain about Warner Brothers (or other companies), where there's no single name that can be attached to any good or bad decisions that they make.

These days, "Mirage Studios" simply means "Peter Laird."

[CyberCubed]

Something about the OP doesn't add up.

Why would Laird give the OK for freaky looking aliens in the movie line over a Triceraton, Fuigitoid, or new Utrom toy?

Wouldn't you think Laird would WANT Mirage universe aliens done in "movie-style" then funky aliens that look like rejects from Fast Forward? That's why I find this hard to believe.

[VaughnMichael]

Something about the OP doesn't add up.

Why would Laird give the OK for freaky looking aliens in the movie line over a Triceraton, Fuigitoid, or new Utrom toy?

Wouldn't you think Laird would WANT Mirage universe aliens done in "movie-style" then funky aliens that look like rejects from Fast Forward? That's why I find this hard to believe.
Perhaps it has to do with the deal they made with Neca concerning their line of toys based on the comics.

[Nobody_At_All]

Ok, let's clear the table a little bit.

The NECA thing is officially figural news as of last week which came as a surprise to Pmates entirely. Contractually they were only supposed to be doing (of all things) miniature weapon replicas.

As for the odd character choices, it's what Pete considers "strategy." My friend tells me Playmates will keep running with the "movie" look for as long as possible (in their mind, it's visually "more turtles" than ff ever was, which wasn't selling). Peter didn't/doesn't want "movie-esque" "classic" characters (even though it is now the core "look" of the brand) because they didn't appear in the film, period. It's sad. My source also tells me they fight all the time over it and seemingly magical "shout outs" like Jagwar are only coincidental and would never get cleared if presented to him early.

Nobody_At_All

[BigApple3AM]

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property. He's Peter freakin Laird, he co-created them. Last time I checked Eastman sold his rights, he was the one who wiped his hands of turtles. Peter's the one that stuck around. I like and respect them both.

Was it Peter Laird's decision to make the toys really crappy too? Like 5 points of articulation and no paint? I can't disagree with him about Triceratons in the movie line, Playmates already did Fugitoid and Triceratons for the new cartoon line and they sucked. They were as tall or shorter than the turtles, and had as much detail as a pre-school toy. At this point who knows if there's a sequel the Triceratons might appear and then you'd have a toy made for the first movie line that doesn't match up. I wouldn't want the movie to be tied down to some toy designer's idea of a triceraton revision. Besides they already did Shredder who wasn't in the movie, that's enough non-movie characters for now. So I agree with his decision. Last time I checked it was mostly Playmates and 4kids fault for switching to fast forward in the first place. And for all we know your friend could be the receptionist, until someone comes on with definite proof it's all hearsay and rumors.

If playmates wants to do the old school characters, first prove to everyone that they can make good toys, then maybe I'll support them. Until then the main reason I'm rooting for NECA is because it's not Playmates. The fact that they're doing comic stuff is icing on the cake.

[VaughnMichael]

Ok, let's clear the table a little bit.

The NECA thing is officially figural news as of last week which came as a surprise to Pmates entirely. Contractually they were only supposed to be doing (of all things) miniature weapon replicas.

As for the odd character choices, it's what Pete considers "strategy." My friend tells me Playmates will keep running with the "movie" look for as long as possible (in their mind, it's visually "more turtles" than ff ever was, which wasn't selling). Peter didn't/doesn't want "movie-esque" "classic" characters (even though it is now the core "look" of the brand) because they didn't appear in the film, period. It's sad. My source also tells me they fight all the time over it and seemingly magical "shout outs" like Jagwar are only coincidental and would never get cleared if presented to him early.

Nobody_At_All
Um so ok who's idea was FF then everyone acts like Playmates bumrushed 4kids and Peter laird into doing the show and now they act like it's a red headed step child. So really who was behind all of that? Of course Peter is the same guy who acts like he didn't have a hand in the next mutation but he had just as much a part in it and the old toon as anyone else he should be proud of his past he brought allot of joy to allot of people growing up thats nothing to be ashamed of at all.
And that's odd about NECA none of us really even know whats going on with that yet so maybe they are just doing what you just said they are we've all just been speculating what they're going to do more than anything else.
I know Playmates has been wanting to do a Retro figures line and Peter says no absolutly not I really don't see what the issue is as long as it's a sub-line and not the focus of the turtles toy line.
And also who's idea is it to make almost every turtle figure the same looking? because honestly thats really bland even as a kid I collected all the wierd monsters and mutants before I ever bought another turtle figure that was dressed up but hell even back then at least each figure had a brand new sculpt was that Peters idea to get rid of brand new sculpts also or is Playmates just cutting back costs by using the same heads and bodies?
Yeah it's a shame the Jagwar figure really doesn't look like the real Jagwar character very much but oh well at least he will have his bio from the archie comics.
I have to admit it's really stupid that an Ultimate TMNT line in't being done.
I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property. He's Peter freakin Laird, he co-created them. Last time I checked Eastman sold his rights, he was the one who wiped his hands of turtles. Peter's the one that stuck around. I like and respect them both.

Was it Peter Laird's decision to make the toys really crappy too? Like 5 points of articulation and no paint? I can't disagree with him about Triceratons in the movie line, Playmates already did Fugitoid and Triceratons for the new cartoon line and they sucked. They were as tall or shorter than the turtles, and had as much detail as a pre-school toy. At this point who knows if there's a sequel the Triceratons might appear and then you'd have a toy made for the first movie line that doesn't match up. I wouldn't want the movie to be tied down to some toy designer's idea of a triceraton revision. Besides they already did Shredder who wasn't in the movie, that's enough non-movie characters for now. So I agree with his decision. Last time I checked it was mostly Playmates and 4kids fault for switching to fast forward in the first place. And for all we know your friend could be the receptionist, until someone comes on with definite proof it's all hearsay and rumors.

If playmates wants to do the old school characters, first prove to everyone that they can make good toys, then maybe I'll support them. Until then the main reason I'm rooting for NECA is because it's not Playmates. The fact that they're doing comic stuff is icing on the cake.
um no Ecto Kevin washed his hands of PETER LAIRD not the TURTLES.
he even states so in his most recent interview and really with how childish Peter acts I can't say I blame him one bit.
And people need to stop praising the laird! I quit worshiping like an idol fan boy years ago it's time that people open their eyes and realize playmates isn't doing this crap.
It's one thing to enjoy what they do or did but it's another to sit by and allow some one to destroy something you love.
I'm pretty sure Kevin feels the same way but at this point he'd rather not be around Peter who is like a 5 year old with his mine mine mine gimmie gimmie gimmie no no no mine attitude.
Kevin would have never allowed that recent story about Casey Jones to ever be published.
Peter has his hands in more cookie jars than he likes to talk about which isn't very much these days the man hasn't even said a word about the new movie at all. Yeah he just cares so much.
Also let me add he was the one who turned down tuns of things for the new toy line because it's not what HE wanted.
He hated the fact that the old toy line had amazing individual art work for the toys he felt it misrepresented the toy in the box I mean really if that isn't a stupid move in a world of faceless box art these days I don't know what is.
Turtles used to stand out so much in the toy stores but now it's just a faceless mess pretty much just like everything else.

[gobo]

I have to admit that I'm not happy about Laird's virtual dictatorship over the TMNT franchise, but I know that there's a chance we'll get him to do the exact opposite of what we want if he sees nothing but ungratefulness coming from us. Let's try making a big deal about his good decisions too sometime. Like, give him the credit he deserves for rejecting that dreadfully uninspired card game season. Honestly, I think that he should loosen his choke-hold on the franchise too, but it's ultimately not my decision. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, right?

[CyberCubed]

I think people will be happier when the first designs or story plots for the 2008 season are revealed and bring the Turtles back to their roots.

I'm sure at that point Playmates will stop the Movie line and move onward to do Season 7 style TMNT toys, and whatever new villains appear in that season.

I'm still hoping Murphy pulls through and gets us new toys of Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady for the 2009 anniversary.

[VaughnMichael]

I have to admit that I'm not happy about Laird's virtual dictatorship over the TMNT franchise, but I know that there's a chance we'll get him to do the exact opposite of what we want if he sees nothing but ungratefulness coming from us. Let's try making a big deal about his good decisions too sometime. Like, give him the credit he deserves for rejecting that dreadfully uninspired card game season. Honestly, I think that he should loosen his choke-hold on the franchise too, but it's ultimately not my decision. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, right?
I'm sorry but the bad seem to outweigh the good here.
I've got no problem with Peter Laird personally but he seems to treat his co-workers and friends like utter crap almost to the point of loik slave labor.
And you listed one thing he's done that was good.
He's rejected countless others and to be honest I'm not ungreatfull at all he has done allot of great things like 2k3 and bringing the turtles back for the love of splinter!
But honestly the good are few and far between I'm always watching for the good but it doesn't come.
I'd love to see Peter prove people wrong he gets so upset about things people say about him here but instead of going wow these kids hate me allot maybe he should focus on what we're saying instead of acting like a aby and going gar! my turtles me do what me want and screw fans they no like me turtles ne stop doing volume 4 which btw was finally going some place cool and he stops he stops because he has "writters block" which in reality he got so down over the fans of this site putting him down he stoped doing it.
I can't blame him though I mean sure we can be pretty harsh some times but you know what it's because we care just like he and Kevin do.
I don't want to see the turtles as crap but I don't want them to forget their amazing past either no matter how many mirage elitists think that old toon is stupid. Seriously I like a little bit of everything from each tmnt universe but I really hate the direction my favorite the toy line has gone in it's such a shell of it's former self.
I'm still hoping Murphy pulls through and gets us new toys of Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady for the 2009 anniversary.
He's got a hell of a job on his hands with this issue because Playmates has been trying to make it happen for some time and PETER is the one saying no I really don't see what a line saying that they are exclusive limited edition retro figures would harm at all.:roll:

[TristanHuwJones]

Can I ask why we need another one of these threads?

I think everyone here has expressed their disappointment with the Playmates line at one point or another, but ultimately you can't JUST single out Peter for every bad thing that's happening with the toys. Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost? And remember, these are aimed - just like the cartoon shows - at CHILDREN. Not Collectors. TMNT toys have NEVER been collector friendly until now (with NECA getting the comic license). Ultimately, it's what killed the line last time around (all the variants) and anyone can see that it's happening again.

Pete's stipulation about the "no mutagen" rule is completely fair. Marvel did it to their mutants - people were becoming creatively bankrupt and simply saying "he/she got their powers through mutation", so House of M happened. Whether you liked it or not, something had to happen, and the original TMNT was running the same track for a while - X character + X animal/situation = X mutant. It's not really that hard to come up with reality based characters for the TMNT, or characters that don't need mutagen to come into being. Most of the supporting cast of the comics AND recent TV show came about that way.

In the end, Playmates, just like 4kids, are making kids action figures. They have to look at what they think are going to sell to kids. Unfortunately, Fugitoid was one of the worst offenders when it came to pegwarming, and until I hear from someone who makes these sorts of decisions directly as to why such and such a character hasn't been or wasn't made, then there are just too many other factors to consider to pin the blame solely on Peter Laird.

Bottom line - right now, we have NECA, who are making toys FOR US! Not for kids! These guys know how to market shizzle like this! Let Playmates do what they've always done - make kids toys. If you wan to buy them, buy them, if not, don't. We just really don't need another "I hate Peter because of X" thread when ultimately, you weren't there and you don't know Peter personally.

I want to reiterate that this ISN'T a snipe, or an attack or anything like that on any ONE person in any way at all - it's just that we've heard all this before, and people just get angry and we end up with another thread of hate, dragging the board down to a level it DOESN'T need to, and SHOULDN'T be at.

[Nobody_At_All]

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property.

Hey, I'm not saying anything about the man personally, I'm talking business. Laird's not coming in an actively ruining things, rather, he's closing doors for other's to make Turtles something again. It extends from a nasty paranoia developed from Fred Wolf changing Pete's "baby" back in the day.

To your inquiry on Fast Forward: As I understand it, again it was a Pete decision. Yes Playmates wanted to make the show more kid friendly, introducing some more contemporary themes...but the intent wasn't to (absurdly) launch them 99 years into the future...that was a 4Kids idea approved by Mirage. The latest pitch involving the toddler turtles was also derived from the same formula which (as I hear) is:

Playmates internally brainstorms their wants from the show which always equates to more roots oriented media, humor and iconic characters (not far-off concepts and situations like some of you would believe).
+ 4Kids translating those "needs" into weird gimmick shows which they sell to Peter before getting everyone on board 100%
+ down to the wire decisions=
rushed mistakes like Fast Forward.

Was it Peter Laird's decision to make the toys really crappy too? Like 5 points of articulation and no paint?

Sadly Ecto, those type of issues come from 2 things:

a.) Mass market manufacturing (which means cost vs. profit)

and the big one:

b.) Time. In the toy industry, things are always at least a year in advance. Playmates isn't a airport hangar full of people, we're talking 60 max with maybe 5 working on everything in the boys and activities aisles respectively With late decisions, difficult licensor expectations for the brand and lack of any creative control, 4Kids, Playmates and Mirage suffers extensively together. Why do your figures come out with 5pts of articulation (even though the TMNT now have 13 thanks to great efforts of folks in these groups)...well, like I said: there's just too much to do, too few people and no time to do it in. And as I stated last time:

Playmates can come up with greatest and most awkward choices imaginable for the line, but at the end of the day, the direction and approval comes from somewhere….and I can assure you it’s not from Costa Mesa, CA.

All of it still has to get approved.

And for all we know your friend could be the receptionist, until someone comes on with definite proof it's all hearsay and rumors.

Listen or don't, that's your choice. Mine is posting here voluntarily, trying to give you guys some much deserved insight.

Nobody_At_All

[Mutated Leo]

Can I ask why we need another one of these threads?

I think everyone here has expressed their disappointment with the Playmates line at one point or another, but ultimately you can't JUST single out Peter for every bad thing that's happening with the toys. Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost? And remember, these are aimed - just like the cartoon shows - at CHILDREN. Not Collectors. TMNT toys have NEVER been collector friendly until now (with NECA getting the comic license). Ultimately, it's what killed the line last time around (all the variants) and anyone can see that it's happening again.

Pete's stipulation about the "no mutagen" rule is completely fair. Marvel did it to their mutants - people were becoming creatively bankrupt and simply saying "he/she got their powers through mutation", so House of M happened. Whether you liked it or not, something had to happen, and the original TMNT was running the same track for a while - X character + X animal/situation = X mutant. It's not really that hard to come up with reality based characters for the TMNT, or characters that don't need mutagen to come into being. Most of the supporting cast of the comics AND recent TV show came about that way.

In the end, Playmates, just like 4kids, are making kids action figures. They have to look at what they think are going to sell to kids. Unfortunately, Fugitoid was one of the worst offenders when it came to pegwarming, and until I hear from someone who makes these sorts of decisions directly as to why such and such a character hasn't been or wasn't made, then there are just too many other factors to consider to pin the blame solely on Peter Laird.

Bottom line - right now, we have NECA, who are making toys FOR US! Not for kids! These guys know how to market shizzle like this! Let Playmates do what they've always done - make kids toys. If you wan to buy them, buy them, if not, don't. We just really don't need another "I hate Peter because of X" thread when ultimately, you weren't there and you don't know Peter personally.

I want to reiterate that this ISN'T a snipe, or an attack or anything like that on any ONE person in any way at all - it's just that we've heard all this before, and people just get angry and we end up with another thread of hate, dragging the board down to a level it DOESN'T need to, and SHOULDN'T be at.

Well put. I'm glad to see TMNT rolling again.

[gobo]

If you want to buy them, buy them, if not, don't.
No wonder you got Pete's back. :P Sorry... That was just a bit of observational humor. I hope no one takes it seriously.
I want to reiterate that this ISN'T a snipe, or an attack or anything like that on any ONE person in any way at all - it's just that we've heard all this before, and people just get angry and we end up with another thread of hate, dragging the board down to a level it DOESN'T need to, and SHOULDN'T be at.
Thank you for saying this. It's exactly what I've been trying to say. Anger only breeds more anger. It helps nothing. Worry is a different matter. It doesn't involve pointing fingers.

[TristanHuwJones]

No wonder you got Pete's back. :P Sorry... That was just a bit of observational humor. I hope no one takes it seriously.


Lol! I see where you're coming from, but it's true, now that there's a line of figures in the works that's geared SPECIFICALLY towards the adult market, let's try and ensure that THAT line gets the legs it deserves! Playmates has been doing their thing for the kids market and they're going to keep doing that. Let the kids play with the kids toys, and let's try and give all the support we possibly can to the NECA line. BUT if you are digging what Playmates puts out, for sure, grab it! I'll admit, the only figures I've picked up in recent times have been the core characters and/or sculpts I've liked - but being Australian, we missed a whole lot of them already! I've also only picked up Splinter from the movie figures and so far only plan on grabbing Shredder too, but that's because they're the only figures I've been really interested in getting (and that's me HOPING the Shredder hits our shores!).

[Roseangelo]

The NECA deal is nice, but it still isn't going to get us figures of Ninjara, Armaggon, or any of the other popular Archie characters unless Peter lets them (assuming they're interested). Since he wouldn't let Playmates make any of those figures, it doesn't seem likely to happen now. Jagwar getting through was just a fortunate fluke.

[Slash]

I'm sure Playmates could put together a line of mutant like animal figures under a different toy-line name.

Playmates did, afterall, put together toylines that were basically knockoffs of TMNT.

Barnyard Commandos - mutated pigs, hogs, sheeps, and rams with military weapons.

Toxic Crusaders - yes, Toxic Avenger was a movie prior to the whole TMNT boom.

A brown bat with robotic wings... No one could really say that it was a rip off of Wingnut if they named Valkrie or something.

[Ninjinister]

Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost?

Malibu Stacy with a new hat, yo.

[odupianist]

Oh well I don't understand how Neca can make toys of past characters but playmates isn't.

Once NECA's line comes out and does amazing, Playmates will either a) be kicking themselves, b) try to compete and do something similar or c) both.


These days, "Mirage Studios" simply means "Peter Laird."

Didn't the old saying used to be, "If it's not late, it's not Mirage" or something? Now it's "If it's not Peter Laird, it's not Mirage or TMNT canon" :P

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property. He's Peter freakin Laird, he co-created them. Last time I checked Eastman sold his rights, he was the one who wiped his hands of turtles. Peter's the one that stuck around. I like and respect them both.

He is ruining the property in my opinion. Yes he co-created them, but that was with a partner and before he decided to blow it. I mean the Turtles need Eastman AND Laird. Eastman gives TMNT the grittiness that we love, and Laird gives it the sci-fi touch we love. Yes Eastman sold his portion but from what I hear about Laird I'd probably get fed up too.

I think everyone here has expressed their disappointment with the Playmates line at one point or another, but ultimately you can't JUST single out Peter for every bad thing that's happening with the toys.

Why not? It's a lot easier on us if we just single out one person :lol:

[Slash]

We all keep saying that NECA will be amazing. How big are these figures going to be? Regular NECA scale? 2k3 Scale? Etc?

We might get 2 inch NECA figures.

[TristanHuwJones]

Once NECA's line comes out and does amazing, Playmates will either a) be kicking themselves, b) try to compete and do something similar or c) both

I don't think so, I think they'll just keep making toys based on what sells to the kids, most likely tied to the shows or movies. NECA will give the adult market what they have been after and Playmates will keep doing their thing.

He is ruining the property in my opinion. Yes he co-created them, but that was with a partner and before he decided to blow it. I mean the Turtles need Eastman AND Laird. Eastman gives TMNT the grittiness that we love, and Laird gives it the sci-fi touch we love. Yes Eastman sold his portion but from what I hear about Laird I'd probably get fed up too.


But that's the thing, you're basing your opinion on what you've heard, and if that's mainly what's been coming up here on the boards, it's a fairly biased view. I know I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but there really is far too much negativity on this board and no-one posting here knows Peter personally, nor Kevin for that matter, so all you're ever really going to get on the boards is "Oh, this has happened and Pete is involved in some way". You're never going to get the full story on anything here on the boards unfortunately, but people seem to take some of these things as faact and use them as fuel for a fire that could be burning for totally the wrong reasons.

[Scandia]

Could you please explain the "no mutagen" part? I am unsure as to what this entails.

[VaughnMichael]

Some ones nose seems awfully brown to me...:roll:

[Drtooth]

Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost? And remember, these are aimed - just like the cartoon shows - at CHILDREN. Not Collectors. TMNT toys have NEVER been collector friendly until now (with NECA getting the comic license). Ultimately, it's what killed the line last time around (all the variants) and anyone can see that it's happening again.

Hmmm.... that pretty much sums up the problem with the line.

I give Playmates credit with the toys. in fact, I will say that the playmates line, aside form the usual complaints, is one of the better kid geared toy lines. While I can't say they're collector friendly, I see just horrid stuff coming out of certain toy companies that are grossly overpriced (One Piece line for example).

Personally, why I complain about Auto attack and other things like that is that they're expensive and unnecessary to the line. The large figures with large rediculous gadgets don't work because they're stupid, but we're in a rotten economy right now, and toy lines are flopping left and right. What these lines do not need are toys identical to the ones that are released that cost more money because they can do something that will get old after the third time. If only the reason they cost way too much money and parents won't buy them.

That was the downfall of the FF line. All the regular release action figures did pretty good, at least in my area. But the action feature toys that cost 15 bucks or more just sat on the shelves.

The varients in time do kill the line. Not because they are pointless, but because the secondary characters are always short packed compared to the main characters. That's why Baxter Robot and Karai were hard to find in a seas of "Ninja Knight" Dons. If anyone remembers the Muppet toy line, the folly was that they thought more people would get Kermit and Piggy, and they short packed Bunsen and Dr. Teeth. Then we had millions of Piggys warming the shelves.

I totally get that the reusing bits is a money issue. But I really think if they at leat switched up the character heads (just repaint their masks) they would have been interresting.

[Janus Prospero]

Could you please explain the "no mutagen" part? I am unsure as to what this entails.

Peter's point is that he doesn't want the toy line full of characters that became mutants via mutagen (ie like the turtles.) It takes away from what makes the turtles special, plus it gives the toy company free reign to make an army of uninspired characters. So to me it makes sense, and I have to side with Peter on that one.

That's not to say that there can't be mutants and freaks in the toy line, but they need to come up with a different way to justify their existence.

[VaughnMichael]

Peter's point is that he doesn't want the toy line full of characters that became mutants via mutagen (ie like the turtles.) It takes away from what makes the turtles special, plus it gives the toy company free reign to make an army of uninspired characters. So to me it makes sense, and I have to side with Peter on that one.

That's not to say that there can't be mutants and freaks in the toy line, but they need to come up with a different way to justify their existence.
& I say that's whats missing from the toy line.
I mean they had that mutants and monsters line for 2k3 perfect for mutants there wasnt a single mutant or monster in that line...:dead:

[Scandia]

Ooooh, like a lot in the OT were. And the Mutanimals in a way.

In Mirage and the NT, so far the only mutants like that would be the Turtles, Splinter, and Leatherhead. Can't think of anyone else at this time.

OT- Turtles, Splinter, Bebop, Rocksteady, Tokka and Rahzar, Mondo Gecko, the Frogs, Leatherhead, Mutagen Man, possibly Wingnut and Screwloose IIRC, Baxter Stockman, and I do not remember who else.

Archie- Turtles, Splinter, Man Ray, Mondo Gecko, Leatherhead, Jagwar, some wolf dude, possibly Ninjara but I have not gotten to that part yet.

[VaughnMichael]

Ooooh, like a lot in the OT were. And the Mutanimals in a way.

In Mirage and the NT, so far the only mutants like that would be the Turtles, Splinter, and Leatherhead. Can't think of anyone else at this time.

OT- Turtles, Splinter, Bebop, Rocksteady, Tokka and Rahzar, Mondo Gecko, the Frogs, Leatherhead, Mutagen Man, possibly Wingnut and Screwloose IIRC, Baxter Stockman, and I do not remember who else.

Archie- Turtles, Splinter, Man Ray, Mondo Gecko, Leatherhead, Jagwar, some wolf dude, possibly Ninjara but I have not gotten to that part yet.
Wingnut and Screwloose are aliens in both the comics and in the show.
Jagwar was not a mutant.
Leatherhead in the archie comics is not a mutant he was transformed by maryr bones.
Dredmon also is not a mutant he was cursed and turned into a wolfman.
Ninja and her people are also not mutants.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Leatherhead and Dreadmon are mutants indeed. Turnstone, curse, mutagen-- doesn't matter what brought it on. The point is that they went from being humans to being humanoid animals, so they're mutants.

[VaughnMichael]

Leatherhead and Dreadmon are mutants indeed. Turnstone, curse, mutagen-- doesn't matter what brought it on. The point is that they went from being humans to being humanoid animals, so they're mutants.
They are Mutants in a normal world sence of the word but We're talking about being turned by Mutagen here that's what Peter's against.
Obviously why the Turtles around the world line or whatever it's called has Characters that would be considerd mutants to you but aren't because like Jagwars story being used he is indeed half human and half animal but his father was a mystical jawgwar spirit.

[Nobody_At_All]

Regardless of their mutagen, or non-mutagen origins, Peter still prohibits the use of "mutants" (think 80's toyline-like characters) where they had humanoid personalities and proportions. When he says "no mutagen" he means that the creatures that will appear must be (for the most part) mindless monsters at best (ex: the generic looking aliens in the recently unveiled "Alien Hunters"). Don't expect to see the likes of Mondo Gecko, Slash, Wingnut or Leatherhead-type, unique looking characters. That's the issue here: the lack of approval to re-imagine fan faves or invent potential new ones for the contemporary line.

[VaughnMichael]

Then they should start their own line they don't need ninja turtles to have a cool line of characters hell I've made up tuns of my own tell playmates to gimmie a call and we'll talk ;)

[Nobody_At_All]

It's not that easy Pute, they still have to get the line placed in the Target's, Walmarts and Toys 'R" Us' of the world...and the only way (sadly) nowadays to do that is through licensed goods. If it's not going to happen through Turtles (which desperately needs it), then it's just not going to happen. :(

[VaughnMichael]

It's not that easy Pute, they still have to get the line placed in the Target's, Walmarts and Toys 'R" Us' of the world...and the only way (sadly) nowadays to do that is through licensed goods. If it's not going to happen through Turtles (which desperately needs it), then it's just not going to happen. :(
We'll like I said I've got my own thing I'm working on called New Eden I've been working on it for years.
Looking for a Company to make them happen in plastic form.
The way I want to do it is sort of tell the story through the toyline like each one would come with a story that would continue the story for the series if that makes sence.
It was going to be called Dark Days but that names been so used to death now it's not even funny.

[Roseangelo]

But that's the thing, you're basing your opinion on what you've heard, and if that's mainly what's been coming up here on the boards, it's a fairly biased view. I know I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but there really is far too much negativity on this board and no-one posting here knows Peter personally, nor Kevin for that matter, so all you're ever really going to get on the boards is "Oh, this has happened and Pete is involved in some way". You're never going to get the full story on anything here on the boards unfortunately, but people seem to take some of these things as faact and use them as fuel for a fire that could be burning for totally the wrong reasons.

I appreciate your attempt to "calm the fire" Tristan, but the original post speaks truth. I am also very confident that the general assessment of Peter that we see laid out around here speaks the truth. My personal assessment comes from both what I hear/read from reliable sources and from some personal issues as well. I don't think this thread was built for Peter Laird bashing - and I don't think it's become that - I think it was built to explain to us why there's been a whole lot of Playmates toys recently that we're not happy with. Because there has been a lot of Playmates bashing lately.

And it's like I said in my original response in this thread - there is an unfortunate blurring of lines between Peter Laird the person and Peter Laird the business. I have no reason to believe Peter Laird the person is anything but a fine human being. I think Peter Laird the business has made a lot of missteps in recent years. Missteps that hurt the TMNT as a whole, be it with toys or comics books or tv or whatever. Since continued success for the TMNT is important to me, pointing out the flaws I see in Peter Laird the business is what's gonna happen.

[odupianist]

I don't think so, I think they'll just keep making toys based on what sells to the kids, most likely tied to the shows or movies. NECA will give the adult market what they have been after and Playmates will keep doing their thing.

I'll agree with you there Tristan. As for the Peter thing, I'm sure he is a nice guy. Obviously you know him better than us, but from our point of view and the limited stuff we know and our lack of Pete talking to us other than letters, it just seems like he can be very cranky, insecure, nit picky, whiny and stubborn. And I say that as nice as possible I promise lol. Pete has done a lot for the TMNT dont get me wrong. It's like celebrity gossip, the good gets overlooked by the bad so we have something to complain about and laugh at. Human nature lol :P

[turkishproverb]

Pete's stipulation about the "no mutagen" rule is completely fair. Marvel did it to their mutants - people were becoming creatively bankrupt and simply saying "he/she got their powers through mutation", so House of M happened. Whether you liked it or not, something had to happen, and the original TMNT was running the same track for a while - X character + X animal/situation = X mutant.

OH, no. I'm not letting a positive comment about "No more mutants" from HOUSE OF M pass without tellign the facts.


Ah, it should be pointed out that, unlike the "No mutigen" rule, in fact even moreso, this decision was reviled as uneccesary. Especially when Editorial did it as much because they didn't like the idea of mutants representing modern minorities (IE: moving forward in the world, trying to discover a cultural identity while still dealing with varying levels of persicution) as they had begun doing a while before this. The Editor in cheif at marvel at the time (and now) strongly disliked most changes or evolutions to the marvel mythos that happened from about the late seventies/early eighties, to when he became EIC.

In this case, he was specifically trying to undo the X-men work of Grant Morrison, the most visionary writer on the character since Chris Claremont.

Grant moved the mutant polulace to the point of being an acnowledged minority with its own slowly developing cultural identity, complete with mutant fashons, cult figures, fringe groups, etc.

Joe didn't like that, he was upset that mutants now represented a viable group in the world. He didn't like the fact that Xaviers Mansnion was being used as a school for mutants for the first time in a decade. He had a real problem with the human supporting characters that were put into place. He hated that. Just like he hated the idea of evolutionary dead end mutants, or the idea of mutants whose primary concern was not mutant rights, but rather HELPING PEOPLE (this being his excuse, most of the time, for changing things by force of an editiorially driven, badly written event)

[Roseangelo]

The latest pitch involving the toddler turtles was also derived from the same formula which (as I hear) is:

Playmates internally brainstorms their wants from the show which always equates to more roots oriented media, humor and iconic characters (not far-off concepts and situations like some of you would believe).
+ 4Kids translating those "needs" into weird gimmick shows which they sell to Peter before getting everyone on board 100%
+ down to the wire decisions=rushed mistakes like Fast Forward.

This comment stuck out at me when it was first made, but I didn't say anything about it. Today, it just makes so much sense. :dead: