Fans reaction to angst in the turtles.

[Sage Ninja]

I've been noticeing alot of people worring over Don becoming another Leo from season four. With his angst and pain over Splinter, and him becoming very determined and pushing him self hard to make for it. Alot of people where not happy or distressed seeing Leo like that in season four even though he had good cause for it. What I'm wondering is why fans seem to not have a problem with the turtles having tough things thrown their way that pushes them out of their normal spectrum and they have to cope with it. I think it gives us good character development and diversity to the turtle that is going through it to have to go through and get over an emotionally trumatising experience/sitatution.

But I noticed during Leo's time during season four and even Don now at this early stage of him reacting to his failure, alot of focus on the coldness of their behavior and not so much their issue that they're dealing with? I think it really works with some one like Don who is normally very calm and mellow to become like this because it's so uncommon in him. I seriously don't mind any othe turtles angsty, but others seem to. So whats every ones opinion on the turtles being angsty?

[triplexxx]

Well I agree it promotes character development. However, I honestly believe that in Donatello's case, if he ends up going down that path, it would be for a much bigger and better reason than when Leonardo did...because unlike in the beginning of Season 4, this time they actually lost something, their father. Being distressed, depressed, and obsessed with failure makes a lot more sense when there's a clear motive, which in this case is the possibility of never seeing their father again...Leonardo's motive was too faint, that was probably the problem some had with it.

[Mandi-chan]

Well I agree it promotes character development. However, I honestly believe that in Donatello's case, if he ends up going down that path, it would be for a much bigger and better reason than when Leonardo did...because unlike in the beginning of Season 4, this time they actually lost something, their father. Being distressed, depressed, and obsessed with failure makes a lot more sense when there's a clear motive, which in this case is the possibility of never seeing their father again...Leonardo's motive was too faint, that was probably the problem some had with it.

I totally agree. Don's reasons for being "angsty" are very understandable and I'm loving it, and I agree that his is for a much bigger and better reason than Leo's angst (which was rather weakly excused in comparison...)

[Scandia]

Maybe because Leo and Donnie are the two more mature Turtles. Unlike Raph and Mikey, who are always getting into trouble and who need Splinter to very much be their father, Leo and Donnie can be given more freedom and are usually much more rational and can think ahead of time and do so most of the time.

[Drtooth]

Maybe because Leo and Donnie are the two more mature Turtles. Unlike Raph and Mikey, who are always getting into trouble and who need Splinter to very much be their father, Leo and Donnie can be given more freedom and are usually much more rational and can think ahead of time and do so most of the time.


Raph IS angst! He just clowns around with Mikey... cuz when you're with Mikey, that's the ONLY way to go.

Of course, Leo's angst was a big focus in season 4 of TMNT... Don's seems to be character development. Other than a few times, one of which he was turned into a ragin' 'roid head, Donny was basically just the guy who did the gadgetry and stuff. Seems to me, most of the series focused on leo and Raph... and Mikey in FF....

[CyberCubed]

I never understood why people complain when characters show "angst" or whatever, and then they use the lame "emo" excuse to bash them.

Absolutely pathetic, I'd rather see the Turtles act real enough then to see them be static characters.

[VaughnMichael]

Raph IS angst! He just clowns around with Mikey... cuz when you're with Mikey, that's the ONLY way to go.

Of course, Leo's angst was a big focus in season 4 of TMNT... Don's seems to be character development. Other than a few times, one of which he was turned into a ragin' 'roid head, Donny was basically just the guy who did the gadgetry and stuff. Seems to me, most of the series focused on leo and Raph... and Mikey in FF....
And now it's Don's turn the end...
I never understood why people complain when characters show "angst" or whatever, and then they use the lame "emo" excuse to bash them.

Absolutely pathetic, I'd rather see the Turtles act real enough then to see them be static characters.
It's because people want to see more out of the turtles lives them bad crap happening to them all the time and them being depressed and down.
But if you notice any time they do go a differnt direction the other side complains that it's not showing enough EMOtion.
Frankly I don't give a Splinter's @ss what they do just as long as it's decent enough.

[Sage Ninja]

I don't get why every one is saying that Leo's angst wasn't character development or that he didn't have a good reason to be the way he was in season four. He felt like he failed his family and even though he didn't actually lose anything he came pretty damn close to it. Almost losing something is just as bad as actually losing it.

With Donatello, i'm not annoyed with his snappy and distant behavior because for one thing it's not like Don has ever been grumpy before and shut himself from the others because he's working on something. But this is the first time something this personal and important has happened to him so he feels he has to fix it. I like the way Tempus Fugit was played out involving Don leading up to the moment where he's made helpless to stop Viral from shooting Splinter and scattering him, and then his blaming him self. It all flows very well.

[Cure]

Almost losing something is just as bad as actually losing it.

Wow. That's not true at all.

[Sage Ninja]

in...what way? If you almost lost your parents wouldn't it make you more aware and scared of their mortality and the real threat that you may lose them some day? Women who are "almost" raped sometimes are just as scarred and need therapy as much as a woman who actually was; sometimes more. Traumatic experinces still take a toll on you even if it actually happen or you just have a brush with it.

[Cure]

in...what way? If you almost lost your parents wouldn't it make you more aware and scared of their mortality and the real threat that you may lose them some day?

It just can't be compared to it actually happening. I'd be relieved since they didn't actually die. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be feeling that way if they did die.

[Raph's Girl]

I myself don't mind this and believe that all this stems from SAINW when Future Mike took Don to Splinter's grave. Don somewhat blamed himself then for not being there when his brothers needed him and now he blames himself for being the catalist (IE creating the weopon) thaf caused his father's dissapearance in the first place. All this angst has been eating him up inside for a long time and is now coming out into fruition. Plus, he probably feels the pressure from the knowledge of all the stuff he'll invent/create (IE Donatellium, and O'Neil Tech amongst other things). Notice all the gadgets and gizmos he's already made since coming back to the past.

[Sage Ninja]

it was still a trauma he experienced and if effected him. Every one reacts diffrently, some might shrug it off and be thankful that everything turned out alright, and others might be scarred for life. Maybe season four indicates how delicate minded Leo is when it comes to truama.

[Drtooth]

And now it's Don's turn the end...

'bout time. The only 2k3 episodes that focused really on him where when he was too over-mutated to enjoy it!

[Ninjinister]

Leo just turned into Raph #2, and that was irritating. Don at least is showing different ranges in his depression.

And let it be known that I officially hate the word "angst". Too many conflicting consonants in a row. Plus whenever I think of the word, I think of the prettyboys on the ol' WB that look like the wind is always blowing in their hair and whine about problems that are way too mundane. :lol:

[NameGoesHere1066]

Raphael really hasn't been all that angsty in the 2k3 series though. And Don may not have been front and center the entire time but he has had the most suble development in the series of the turtles, and in my opinion the most profound. I think of all the turtles he's lost the most and had to deal with emotinal hurt by himself out of all of them.

That kirby episode

thinking he failed and lost The Fugitoid

being sent to a twisted future where his father was dead his brothers are at odds and then seeing each of them killed before his eyes.

having that blue skinned girl he got close too leave him him with just a lock of her hair as a memento.

losing all his experiments and files and codes he worked on with April when Karai wrecked their home, and the strain he felt from it.

His DNA being scrambled and turned into a monster in season four

and now his guilt over Splinter.

and lets not forget the ever present April thing.

it's pretty long list, I don't think any of the other turtles have a list of emotional hurt as long as Donatello's.

[Wolf Ninja]

In Leo's case it was good for character development, but I think Don has a better reason than Leo had. I don't mind this kind of things happening. It's a good diversity from the regular characters and gives a bit to the character development, but I don't want it to last for too long.

[Cipher]

It just can't be compared to it actually happening. I'd be relieved since they didn't actually die. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be feeling that way if they did die.If they almost died and you felt responsible, however, you'd be pretty messed up.

I think Leonardo's angst was well enough justified. He almost lost his family, and he felt like it was because he didn't do enough. Afterwords, he poured himself into fighting so he could ensure they would never have to make that choice again.

Anyway, I don't mind the "angst" we've seen in Leo and Don. You know it's not going to be permanent. Angsty Don doesn't bother me near as much as how cavalere the other Turtles were acting last episode.

[triplexxx]

I don't get why every one is saying that Leo's angst wasn't character development or that he didn't have a good reason to be the way he was in season four. He felt like he failed his family and even though he didn't actually lose anything he came pretty damn close to it. Almost losing something is just as bad as actually losing it.

in...what way? If you almost lost your parents wouldn't it make you more aware and scared of their mortality and the real threat that you may lose them some day? Women who are "almost" raped sometimes are just as scarred and need therapy as much as a woman who actually was; sometimes more. Traumatic experinces still take a toll on you even if it actually happen or you just have a brush with it.With people in real life, yes, this is probably very true, and I'd think the same way about the turtles if it weren't for the fact that it happens all the time to them, they always get into danger and face a lot of close calls with each other's lives and their family, but it always turns out all right in the end, and after it does so, they seem to usually move on, emotionally speaking.Maybe because Leo and Donnie are the two more mature Turtles. Unlike Raph and Mikey, who are always getting into trouble and who need Splinter to very much be their father, Leo and Donnie can be given more freedom and are usually much more rational and can think ahead of time and do so most of the time.With all due respect, that sounds like it implies Leonardo and Donatello are not in as much need of a father...they may be a bit more independent psychologically speaking, but these emotional periods are proof they are just as much in need of a father. If Splinter was gone for good, they'd end up just as lost and unstable as Raphael and Michaelangelo.


Also, about that list of Donatello's stressful events NameGoesHere1066 mentioned.....I remember some people saying Leonardo has suffered most in 2k3, but this may give some second thoughts.

[Sage Ninja]

I think Leo has suffered the most "open" suffering of the turtles and reacted to it. Donny has suffered the most silent suffering of them and has kept it quite to himself, which I'm sure isn't easy.

[Mandi-chan]

Raphael really hasn't been all that angsty in the 2k3 series though. And Don may not have been front and center the entire time but he has had the most suble development in the series of the turtles, and in my opinion the most profound. I think of all the turtles he's lost the most and had to deal with emotinal hurt by himself out of all of them.

That kirby episode

thinking he failed and lost The Fugitoid

being sent to a twisted future where his father was dead his brothers are at odds and then seeing each of them killed before his eyes.

having that blue skinned girl he got close too leave him him with just a lock of her hair as a memento.

losing all his experiments and files and codes he worked on with April when Karai wrecked their home, and the strain he felt from it.

His DNA being scrambled and turned into a monster in season four

and now his guilt over Splinter.

and lets not forget the ever present April thing.

it's pretty long list, I don't think any of the other turtles have a list of emotional hurt as long as Donatello's.


You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Leonardo15]

Another stressful moment for Don, was when he worked night and day on finding a cure for his friends underground. He was annoyed then with anyone who bothered him.

I'm not really bothered by the fact he going to be
"angsty" one for this season, he's been depressed and obsessed in his work before. Now they found their Sensei his angst will probably be shortly lived after all there only 11 episodes left.

[NightwatchersOnlygirl]

I think Leo been thowing more hissy fits than Raphael

[Jelly Bean]

Another stressful moment for Don, was when he worked night and day on finding a cure for his friends underground. He was annoyed then with anyone who bothered him.

I'm not really bothered by the fact he going to be
"angsty" one for this season, he's been depressed and obsessed in his work before. Now they found their Sensei his angst will probably be shortly lived after all there only 11 episodes left.

I think that was already mentioned. :ohwell:

I don't get why everyone says Don is so mellow and passive. He's ushually in a prickly and snappy mood if you bug him at the wrong moment when he's busy.

[Leonardo15]

I think that was already mentioned. :ohwell:

Sorry, I didn't see it.

[NameGoesHere1066]

I don't mind angst at all as long it's handled well and give you another side their character and not just for a cliched angst situation, "oh noez, I didn't make the cheerleading squade, my life's over!"

There are some young teenage drama shows where I can't stand them because they are brimming over with frothy teenage angst where said character is just an annoying caracture of a whiney emo goth brat who spends all their time cutting them selves. yeah none of that, I don't need to see angsty teenagers just for the sake of angst.

I actually wish they would make Mikey angsty over something and make him brood if for no other reason than to show that Mikey has emotions and actually cares about something other than comics, video games, and junk food.

[Jelly Bean]

Leo just turned into Raph #2, and that was irritating. Don at least is showing different ranges in his depression.

And let it be known that I officially hate the word "angst". Too many conflicting consonants in a row. Plus whenever I think of the word, I think of the prettyboys on the ol' WB that look like the wind is always blowing in their hair and whine about problems that are way too mundane. :lol:

I really don't like it when people say that. Leo didn't turn into a Raph clone, thats like saying only Raph can get mean and violent and it's just his characteristics and no one else can get that way. Raph's anger is ushually explosive psychotic while Leo's was more of a quite silent type and calulating.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

I don't get why every one is saying that Leo's angst wasn't character development or that he didn't have a good reason to be the way he was in season four. He felt like he failed his family and even though he didn't actually lose anything he came pretty damn close to it. Almost losing something is just as bad as actually losing it.

With Donatello, i'm not annoyed with his snappy and distant behavior because for one thing it's not like Don has ever been grumpy before and shut himself from the others because he's working on something. But this is the first time something this personal and important has happened to him so he feels he has to fix it. I like the way Tempus Fugit was played out involving Don leading up to the moment where he's made helpless to stop Viral from shooting Splinter and scattering him, and then his blaming him self. It all flows very well.

I agree. Leo had a good reason for being angsty during Season 4. I mean he even explained it himself. He's the oldest. He's the leader. He's the most responsible. He feels that the rest of his family relies on him, and after not only getting bitchslapped by Ch'rell but stabbed by Karai and forced to blow him and his family up along with the ship all because there was no other way of defeating Ch'rell. I can understand wholeheartedly why Leo felt the way he did.

He even explains his reasoning multiple times. He felt weak. He felt he wasn't good enough. That he should have been stronger and done more, and maybe things would have been different. Leo's pride and honor was deeply scarred by the events of Exodus, and since Leo is not usually such an angry character it was much harder for him to overcome his anger and feelings of inadequacy. Much harder than it would for Raph at least.

Lets face it. Leo might not have had any regrets when they decided to nuke the ship, but after being saved by the utroms and those events engraved into his memory. Not just Leo but anyone would feel "is that all I could do? Was there nothing more I could have done to protect those I love?" And for Leo... a guy who prides himself on protecting his family. It'd be weird if he wasn't blaming himself and angsting over it.



I actually wish they would make Mikey angsty over something and make him brood if for no other reason than to show that Mikey has emotions and actually cares about something other than comics, video games, and junk food.

Where would the comedy relief be then?

[NameGoesHere1066]

I agree. Leo had a good reason for being angsty during Season 4. I mean he even explained it himself. He's the oldest. He's the leader. He's the most responsible. He feels that the rest of his family relies on him, and after not only getting bitchslapped by Ch'rell but stabbed by Karai and forced to blow him and his family up along with the ship all because there was no other way of defeating Ch'rell. I can understand wholeheartedly why Leo felt the way he did.

He even explains his reasoning multiple times. He felt weak. He felt he wasn't good enough. That he should have been stronger and done more, and maybe things would have been different. Leo's pride and honor was deeply scarred by the events of Exodus, and since Leo is not usually such an angry character it was much harder for him to overcome his anger and feelings of inadequacy. Much harder than it would for Raph at least.

Lets face it. Leo might not have had any regrets when they decided to nuke the ship, but after being saved by the utroms and those events engraved into his memory. Not just Leo but anyone would feel "is that all I could do? Was there nothing more I could have done to protect those I love?" And for Leo... a guy who prides himself on protecting his family. It'd be weird if he wasn't blaming himself and angsting over it.?

words taken out of mouth :D

Where would the comedy relief be then?

:roll:

[Ninjinister]

I really don't like it when people say that. Leo didn't turn into a Raph clone....

I'm sorry, I was confused by Leo doing EVERYTHING Raph does when he's upset. The only thing he did that Raph doesn't is whine about it.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

words taken out of mouth :D



:roll:

Well what can I say? I don't wanna feel like I'm watching a soap opera or one of those super serious drama shows you see on prime time TV.

and to be perfectly honest Leo, Don, and Raph are just far too serious to take up the role of comedy relief if Mikey's the one being a downer. So unless they have Casey in every single episode filling in that role for Mike. I'd say it's better off if Mike stays in his comic relief role. Suits him best in my view.

[Jelly Bean]

that's awfully limiting as a character to do that. Mikey is one of the main characters too so why can't he have more involved storylines given to him instead of just ones where he is skate boarding or tossing his cookies. And hello? There are other comedic characters on the show other than Mikey. theres Serling and Casey Jones to name two, and not all comedy has to be at some ones expence, which is the bulk of any humour involving Mikey saddly.

[Buslady]

Raph has barely exhibited "teenage angst" throughout the whole series...bits here & there...but very little fear or anxiety.

I never understood why it says in his profile that he puts to shame any human teen's angst. Im like...huh?

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

that's awfully limiting as a character to do that. Mikey is one of the main characters too so why can't he have more involved storylines given to him instead of just ones where he is skate boarding or tossing his cookies. And hello? There are other comedic characters on the show other than Mikey. theres Serling and Casey Jones to name two, and not all comedy has to be at some ones expence, which is the bulk of any humour involving Mikey saddly.

But the thing is Casey and Serling can't be in every single minute of every single episode to fill the comedy relief gap for Mikey can they?

Besides at least this version of mikey doesn't go around talking about how much he wants to eat pizza so much that they base an entire episode on trying to break his pizza cravings. Honestly I get the impression that people think all 2k3 Mikey does is crack jokes all the time and that's not true. Maybe in FF but that was more about the jokes anyways. In the more serious seasons Mikey has always shown a serious side when the time calls for it. I mean you don't really see him cracking jokes when the turtles are fighting a serious threat. Like any version of the shredder for instance.

So why does he have to be a sourpuss? You don't always need to have angst to get character development.