To me, TMNT 2k3 ended with 'Enter the Dragons' Part II.

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

Not just animation style, obviously. But the tone was lost. While I liked Fast Forward and I am enjoying Back to the Sewer, the first 5 seasons were clearly the best Turtles animation we have got so far. I wish the DTV would be in the same type of animation as 2k3 and the same tone. That is what missing since they all decided to change it over but keep the same continuity. So to me (and I bet to a lot of you) 2k3 ended with 'Enter the Dragons' Part II. It's almost as if Seasons 6 & 7 can be ignored.

[CyberCubed]

OK. Not sure why we needed yet another thread on this.

I view the transition more like B:TAS to TNBA, but whatever floats your boat.

[ZariusTwo]

OK. Not sure why we needed yet another thread on this.

Because it's relevant. And we don't care if you disagree.

...And that's a SERIOUS insult to TNBA...yeesh. BTTS is nowhere near it's quality.

[Drtooth]

...And that's a SERIOUS insult to TNBA...yeesh. BTTS is nowhere near it's quality.

Exactly... even the Kid's WB Batman episodes shared the same sort of tone and action as the rest of the series. A little more comical at parts (the Creeper episode for example)....but it didn't pander to the youngest demographic while turning into the 1970's Filmation Batman in the wrong ways... and I don't recall the new Robin turning even more juvenile with each passing episode.

[mumbo230]

I thought Season 5 actually had a noticeably different tone from the first four seasons. I didn't like it that much, it was a bit gimmicky, melodramatic, and rushed. Too much into the realm of "saving the world." That's always the risk you take when you open the series to a grander scale in hopes of making it more epic though.

Of course FF and BTTS can be ignored though. I don't hate them and have gotten some enjoyment out of them for wha they are, but yeah they definitely feel like extensions for the sake of extensions. Probably because they are :/ An expected fate of such a long-running action cartoons though, unfortunately.

[Mandi-chan]

I agree with Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle, I feel nearly the same way (I dislike FF and BTTS).

...And that's a SERIOUS insult to TNBA...yeesh. BTTS is nowhere near it's quality.

Exactly... even the Kid's WB Batman episodes shared the same sort of tone and action as the rest of the series. A little more comical at parts (the Creeper episode for example)....but it didn't pander to the youngest demographic while turning into the 1970's Filmation Batman in the wrong ways... and I don't recall the new Robin turning even more juvenile with each passing episode.

Totally agree with Zarius and Drtooth in regards to CyberCubed's comment.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

Not just animation style, obviously. But the tone was lost. While I liked Fast Forward and I am enjoying Back to the Sewer, the first 5 seasons were clearly the best Turtles animation we have got so far. ... So to me (and I bet to a lot of you) 2k3 ended with 'Enter the Dragons' Part II. It's almost as if Seasons 6 & 7 can be ignored.

Ummm... so, can we go back to the no pupils and rounder heads, please?

[VaughnMichael]

As much as I enjoyed FF and BTTS is ok I'd much rather think that the series ended before that anime influenced pile of trash called the lost season.
To me that was the start of the season gimmicks, but we can thank a certain toy company for that even if they don't take advantage of it.

[Drtooth]

You have to admit one thing about the Lost (held hostage) season.. it had structure. There were only 3 filler episodes... 1 wasn't produced, 1 had some connection to the plot, and the other... well.. it was a good stand alone episode. It definitely did what good fillers did, cut through the tension while waiting for the gathering storm.

But I restate, I had troubles since the 4th season... all those random aliens getting into fights with each other and the Turtles playing second/third to them... the endless string of Y’Lyntian based episodes (I'm sorry, but that crap ended for me with the equal to the Notes from the Underground saga)... The whole "Mutants and Monsters" subtitle (except for the Bishop related stuff) wore thin... I think the second half of that season was much better....

[CyberCubed]

The Ninja Tribunal arc was good for what it was. I never had a problem with their anime powers, I knew it was only going to last for that one arc.

[VaughnMichael]

I do find it funny how it's ok to bash other seasons of the show but don't dare say a bad thing about the ninja tribunal or old uncle ancient one may lay a fart bomb in your face.
Each season has it's good and bad things for me even the next mutation had some cool things about it.
I do agree though that we could take each season since the Ninja Tribunal though and look at it as a different series or stand alone.
I mean really they haven't made an episode based on a Mirage comic since what season 4? And it's something I do find really funny that even tooth complains about episodes being fillers when they are based on issues of the comics hence why they got made.
do a bit of research guys that's what the official site is there for.

[Drtooth]

I mean really they haven't made an episode based on a Mirage comic since what season 4? And it's something I do find really funny that even tooth complains about episodes being fillers when they are based on issues of the comics hence why they got made.


Considering how Sons of a Silent Era (that's the title, right?) got massacred, I'm glad they didn't do that anymore. Of course, I don't see how a comic book adaption could have worked for any of FF... they certainly could have added some elements like Savanti and Renet some how....

Anyway, Filler is supposed to take tension off something, or help to build tension of the gathering storm... FF built up too much for the gathering storm, while BTTS is building up for a storm that may not even come.

[VaughnMichael]

Considering how Sons of a Silent Era (that's the title, right?) got massacred, I'm glad they didn't do that anymore. Of course, I don't see how a comic book adaption could have worked for any of FF... they certainly could have added some elements like Savanti and Renet some how....

Anyway, Filler is supposed to take tension off something, or help to build tension of the gathering storm... FF built up too much for the gathering storm, while BTTS is building up for a storm that may not even come.
silent age and it's title comes from the david bowie song.
allot of things could have been done in FF like the Arhcie future shark stuff, etc.
Mirage voume 4 also could have been used and would have helped (perhaps) sales of the comic.
I'm happy they didn't do that for Ff at all to be honest and thats why it was such a breath of fresh air for a long time fan like me, I'm the type of person who enjoys brand new stories and doesn't like to see the same thing over and over again.
Like say I don't know Shredder every season, in some way shape or form.
Peter Laird has also stated a number of times that no episodes are filler episodes and everything is connected in some way shape or form and I happen to agree with him on this 100%, you'd have to be blind not to see how all the events and characters are all tied together in one big story.

[Casual Matt]

Season 6 and 7 are both better than Season 5.

There, I said it.

[ZariusTwo]

We don't beleive you.

There. I smited an opinion. Because I could. With sauce.

[Casual Matt]

We don't beleive you.

There. I smited an opinion. Because I could. With sauce.

Nicely done. Seriously, Season Five had some good episodes that were much better than anything in Seasons Six and Seven. But the majority of it was boring and gimmicky.

[Drtooth]

silent age and it's title comes from the david bowie song.
allot of things could have been done in FF like the Arhcie future shark stuff, etc.

Of course, Mirage would have to actually acknowledge Archie in some form or shape in that context... that's why we didn't have Ultimate TMNT in the first place.

Though I do agree... everything is connected somehow... A lot of the "fillers" have connected in some way to past plots... and some things that happened in certain ones lead to evens.

And frankly, I did like a lot of the stand alone episodes in the previous seasons...

I'm going to sort of disagree with what Zarius said some place (either this thread or another)... I don't think the problem is the Cyber Shredder stuff... just the Cyber Splinter stuff.

[DrSpengler]

I felt the streak of quality began to noticeably diminish after season 4 (or more specifically, "Good Genes part 2"). Starting with the Ninja Tribunal arc, the show began to get gimmicky for season-long stretches at a time, when before, gimmicks were employed for maybe an episode at a time. While I don't hate season 5 (I enjoyed much of it, in fact), I could feel a distinct change in atmosphere, direction and overall tone which would only continue to disintegrate.

Fast Forward was some distracting fun that went on for too long and felt unfocused. Ignoring the change in setting, it just didn't have the edge the first 4 seasons had (which I hold in regard as being genuinely GOOD animation, both in story and production).

Back to the Sewers ost my interest after about 4 episodes, focusing far too much on Mikey's juvenile humor (the previous seasons were guilty of this, but never to the extent BttS took it) and some moronic story arcs (collecting Splinter's "bits"). I didn't stick around long enough to see if the payoff with the Shredder War was worth it. I'll just wait for the DVD set.

Anyhow, that's my personal weigh-in on the matter. I think the first 4 seasons make for some of the best animation of the decade (saying this not as a TMNT fan, but from a critical perspective) and proof that America still has the chops to stay in the television animation game (contrary to what most Japanophiles may think). Seasons 5-7 are a sudden drop in quality, while not in the "terrible" department (at least, not immediately), they don't live up to the first 4.

[Drtooth]

Fast Forward was some distracting fun that went on for too long and felt unfocused. Ignoring the change in setting, it just didn't have the edge the first 4 seasons had (which I hold in regard as being genuinely GOOD animation, both in story and production).

Back to the Sewers ost my interest after about 4 episodes, focusing far too much on Mikey's juvenile humor (the previous seasons were guilty of this, but never to the extent BttS took it) and some moronic story arcs (collecting Splinter's "bits"). I didn't stick around long enough to see if the payoff with the Shredder War was worth it. I'll just wait for the DVD set.

That's the problem with FF and BTTS... Mikey went from being the child-like goofball of the group to the childish yutz of the group... of course, I'm not a fan of the over exaggerated Mikey/Raph stuff at all. Seems like the next episode will be 7 minutes of Mikey acting like a child, 7 minutes of Raph pounding him on the head or calling him an idiot, and maybe 5 minutes of actual plot. I think the one thing they dropped the ball on is making Mikey and Don buddy buddy like they were in the first movie.

The one thing I think they got better with BTTS is that Mikey has at least twice shown that he is competent to save the day... Too little too late, I think. And that Superquest episode was Mikey acting like he was in a play ground...

In the context of FF I sort of let it slide. I mean, the only concern was they had to get back to their own time... and maybe down the line watch out for Darius and Shokkenabo... but other than that, no Shredder... no Foot... Bishop was hiding something clearly, but he was never established as a threat of any kind... it was like a Vacation to them.

The one thing that would have made BTTS powerful is when Mikey was clowning around near the beginning of the second episode, he turned around to hide tears or something. Changing the subject when they were talking about Splinter was a pretty understated moment... too bad that they burried that under more abusing Serling jokes later...

[cup-mikey-gertha]

I felt the streak of quality began to noticeably diminish after season 4 (or more specifically, "Good Genes part 2").

:-?

So would it still be possible to go back to the same story flow and art style on Seasons 1-4?

Don't get me wrong. I'm OK with Fast Forward. I also bought Fast Forward collectibles like most of us here. I'm staring at Playmates' Fast Forward Mike Asst#54860 right now while it's unopened mint condition box is hanging on my wall. But my vote is with this sentiment. "Same As it Never Was" from Season 3 alone is far one of the best if not the best episodes for me in the Turtle universe. And how may of us here and out there love "Adventures in Turtle-Sitting" from Season 4? And I know that I am not the only person here who've watched the pilot ep "Things Change" over and over again until the media is already scratched. By my last count, I've reran The Shredder Strikes Back (1 & 2) for over 80 times. I've practically have the count of how many Foot/Feet (hehehe) attacked Leo. Point is, that is how excellent the episodes back then. You watch it again and again and again and again. Will you do the same with the other seasons?

Just a thought.

:roll:

[gobo]

I do find it funny how it's ok to bash other seasons of the show but don't dare say a bad thing about the ninja tribunal or old uncle ancient one may lay a fart bomb in your face.
O_o Where do you get these ludicrous ideas from? There are a handful of people who have nothing but disgust for The Lost Episodes, and no one fiercely defending it like other unpopular facets of the franchise. The best I've ever seen was a "well, it wasn't entirely lame..." defense. So, in all seriousness, how can you say that?

[VaughnMichael]

O_o Where do you get these ludicrous ideas from? There are a handful of people who have nothing but disgust for The Lost Episodes, and no one fiercely defending it like other unpopular facets of the franchise. The best I've ever seen was a "well, it wasn't entirely lame..." defense. So, in all seriousness, how can you say that?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/VaughnJohnny/910_sitting_too_close_to_the_tv_mak.gif

[Mandi-chan]

I really liked Season Five a lot, but it did have it's flaws.

I hated the gimmicky anime-ish stuff with them turning into dragons (with only two of them actually looking like dragons...). That was just lame.

I liked the idea of them tapping into their spiritual power (there is a spiritual side to the comics after all), and I didn't feel it was overdone or anything...it reminded me of Xena a little. Although, I hated the new weapons they got to go with their chi abilities as well as the amulets...

I really can't stand the Ancient One (never did to begin with, thought he was annoying and gross for no reason...I would have liked him a lot better if he was like he was in the flashbacks with Yoshi and Splinter taking the kids to Japan).

They kind of resolved (kind of) the vendetta Karai had against the Hamato clan, I was left with the impression in the last episode that she was willing to let it go and move on with her life. Especially when you consider the fact that she saved Leonardo's life, when she didn't have to...

They finished off the Shredder storyline nicely too (I missed a couple of eps, did they have an ep explaining how Utrom Shredder took over the Shredder name?), and all that was really left was the Bishop/Stockman stuff. I LOVE Bishop, he was easily a more interesting villain than Shredder was and I would have loved to see more with him. Stockman too...I was hoping to see him finally get some peace. (Hacking Stockman was actually a pretty good ep, the only one from BTTS that I can honestly say I loved).

Aside from the unresolved Bishop/Stockman (mainly Bishop) stuff...I really felt the finale for Season Five was an acceptable finale for the series as a whole.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

I agree. TMNT 2k3 ended with the defeat of Tengu Shredder. Enter the Dragons II pretty much had a happy ending for all once Tengu Shredder was defeated.

Also if you really look at Fast Forward and BTTS. They don't really connect to the timeline of the first five seasons. I mean sure you could say they're part of the timeline somewhere, but they don't directly connect to the first five seasons. Making them more like spin offs or sequel seasons than an actual part of the continuity.

As for the anime hate. I wish people would give that a rest. Especially since there are people who do love anime on this forum.

[Ninjinister]

As for the anime hate. I wish people would give that a rest. Especially since there are people who do love anime on this forum.

My beef isn't that in and of itself (especially since I rarely watch it anymore myself), but because there are people that throw anime under an umbrella of "magical powers used to fight evil" like Lost Season had. There are more anime that DON'T have that than DO. Anime is as diverse as any other country's animation, or any live action films.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

My beef isn't that in and of itself (especially since I rarely watch it anymore myself), but because there are people that throw anime under an umbrella of "magical powers used to fight evil" like Lost Season had. There are more anime that DON'T have that than DO. Anime is as diverse as any other country's animation, or any live action films.

I don't know why people classify anime like that. I mean the whole magical powers used to fight evil thing is like one genre of anime's many different genres. That's like saying spongebob is every American cartoon ever. At least in my opinion.

So yeah I agree with what you say there. It's like many of the people who don't watch anime just magically think every anime is DragonBall Z.

And honestly I didn't really even consider the special weapons and the dragon forms anime powers anyways. I don't even know why they're considered that. Just because they yell out their attacks doesn't mean it's anime based. That's just another stereotype.

[gobo]

True that it's unjust stereotyping, but it's the way of the world to judge every subject by its extremes. Sad but true...

[ZariusTwo]

As for the anime hate. I wish people would give that a rest.

I wish people would give anime a rest.

Not that I have anything against the good sort...it's just the good sort tend to only be 26 episodes, tell a story, and get the hell off of my screen before it becomes an irritation.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

I wish people would give anime a rest.

Not that I have anything against the good sort...it's just the good sort tend to only be 26 episodes, tell a story, and get the hell off of my screen before it becomes an irritation.

The animes that last over a hundred episodes do tell a story too and can be just as good, but I guess you lack that much of an attention span to really enjoy something that long.

Oh well though... It's your loss.

hmmm and you're right Gobo. It is the way of the world to judge everything to the extreme.

[ThirdMarioBro]

It's the Ninja Turtles cycle. Show starts great, show gets toned down, show turns kiddy, animation goes to hell, show gets canceled. That's why I bailed out a long time ago. The cycle always repeats itself.

[Ninjinister]

O_o Where do you get these ludicrous ideas from? There are a handful of people who have nothing but disgust for The Lost Episodes, and no one fiercely defending it like other unpopular facets of the franchise. The best I've ever seen was a "well, it wasn't entirely lame..." defense. So, in all seriousness, how can you say that?

Let me break the cycle then. I liked Season 5. More than about half of Season 4. More than Seasons 6 or 7/8/whatever 4kids wants to call Back to the Sewer. I recall watching the first few episodes (sans Demons and Dragons, as it was not aired there back then) On Demand when they first showed up, and being awe-inspired. I had shivers when I found out there was a real man named Oroku Saki that was once considered a hero. I liked the entire idea of The Shredder originally being some sort of hideous demon who made a bargain with Saki. It's nowhere near the other half of season 4, or the first three in their entirety, but on the whole, every season has kept me entertained. And that's the reason I even watch the show.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

Actually to be honest. Season 4 rather bored me. I mean it was great that we got more Bishop, but Bishop alone just couldn't save the season from being so boring. The whole mutation arc thing just seemed to drag... Though I did like the idea that they had to find some way to cure Don.

But I'll at least admit that season 4 was more interesting than the stupid triceraton vs federation stuff. I honestly felt that was the most boring aspect of the first five seasons. I just didn't really care about it.

[Spitfire]

The animes that last over a hundred episodes do tell a story too and can be just as good, but I guess you lack that much of an attention span to really enjoy something that long.

Oh well though... It's your loss.

Before I begin this rant I'd like to formally state this is in no way an attack on or directed at you, more or so a rant in general referencing a comment you made.

Anime does not have good storytelling. Anime is about barfing exposition into your face in long monologues or in inappropriate situations.

Stop me if you've seen this one
Good guy attacks bad guy, bad guy deflects the attack and then talks about it for two episodes.

Bad guy attacks good guy, good guy asks bad guy why he's bad. Bad guy stops and explains their entire life story in the middle of a fight. The only episodes of "Naurto" I saw took place during a martial arts tournament where some kid in orange fought another kid who looked like an emo jock. All the orange one kept doing was making copies of himself and it never worked yet he kept doing it, probably because it didn't cost money to reanimate it. Then out of no where the emo jock starts babbling about his life story. I'm sorry but if I paid to watch two people beat the hell out of each other I'd be pretty pissed if they started sharing life experiences.

I bring that series up because anytime I make a claim anime is garbage they bring it up. I've also seen Bleach and don't get me started on how horrid that was.

Anime breaks the number one rule of story telling, graceful reveal of exposition. They're too busy trying to save money so they animate faces talking to explain everything. This is the difference between a ****** movie and a good movie. Telling the audience everything is basically you calling the audience morons and proclaiming that your story is too complex for them thus you need to tell them everything. This could be why most anime fans are snot nose pricks who think they're smarter then everyone else because they can see some sophistication in the mess that is almost every anime's storyline.

I've seen tons of it, against my will in most cases. Out of the **** I shuffled through I found a few gems, and they're all movies. I also enjoyed Cowboy Bebop but the voice acting and some of the dialogue is just horrid and barely holds up. I'd watch it subtitled but listening to Japanese people babble is equivalent to nails on a chalk board for me. Their vocal range passes the threshold of pain somehow, that or they just mix their vocals way to loud. Either or some of those screams could break glass. I also have trouble telling the difference between the men and women and am baffled that sometimes the male heroes are acted by women, which I guess further proves my point.

As far as animation goes maybe I'm behind but most anime looks terrible. It's not fluid at all. That or they blow their load on the action sequences and leave the rest of the stuff to look low budget. I guess that's all that matters to the fans who make thousands of Linkin Park music videos using them.

And you ever been to an anime convention? Eat onions for a week straight and don't bath. That's what the one I went to smelled like. There's being a nerd, such as myself whose currently posting on a Ninja Turtles message board, and then there's living the nerd. These people spoke using internet lingo, such as brb. Most of them either looked like their Mommy dressed them or a Halloween store exploded near their bedroom. If that's not bad enough hearing them talk is the real frightening part. Some of them think they're Japanese which is just plain sad and the others just sound like every nerd stereotype you've ever heard in a movie of TV series.

Anime fans are like a whole different race/gender/religion of people all together. They're a bunch of bizarre smelling ape creatures that like hair gel and metrosexuals. I just don't, and won't ever understand them.

Don't even get me started on the ones who like the video games...

It's the Ninja Turtles cycle. Show starts great, show gets toned down, show turns kiddy, animation goes to hell, show gets canceled. That's why I bailed out a long time ago. The cycle always repeats itself.
Not really, Red Sky had great animation and the storylines were actually less kiddy then any of the previous seasons. Technically the exact opposite happened to this series that happened to the old toon.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

Before I begin this rant I'd like to formally state this is in no way an attack on or directed at you, more or so a rant in general referencing a comment you made.

Anime does not have good storytelling. Anime is about barfing exposition into your face in long monologues or in inappropriate situations.

Stop me if you've seen this one
Good guy attacks bad guy, bad guy deflects the attack and then talks about it for two episodes.

Bad guy attacks good guy, good guy asks bad guy why he's bad. Bad guy stops and explains their entire life story in the middle of a fight. The only episodes of "Naurto" I saw took place during a martial arts tournament where some kid in orange fought another kid who looked like an emo jock. All the orange one kept doing was making copies of himself and it never worked yet he kept doing it, probably because it didn't cost money to reanimate it. Then out of no where the emo jock starts babbling about his life story. I'm sorry but if I paid to watch two people beat the hell out of each other I'd be pretty pissed if they started sharing life experiences.

I bring that series up because anytime I make a claim anime is garbage they bring it up. I've also seen Bleach and don't get me started on how horrid that was.

Anime breaks the number one rule of story telling, graceful reveal of exposition. They're too busy trying to save money so they animate faces talking to explain everything. This is the difference between a ****** movie and a good movie. Telling the audience everything is basically you calling the audience morons and proclaiming that your story is too complex for them thus you need to tell them everything. This could be why most anime fans are snot nose pricks who think they're smarter then everyone else because they can see some sophistication in the mess that is almost every anime's storyline.

I've seen tons of it, against my will in most cases. Out of the **** I shuffled through I found a few gems, and they're all movies. I also enjoyed Cowboy Bebop but the voice acting and some of the dialogue is just horrid and barely holds up. I'd watch it subtitled but listening to Japanese people babble is equivalent to nails on a chalk board for me. Their vocal range passes the threshold of pain somehow, that or they just mix their vocals way to loud. Either or some of those screams could break glass. I also have trouble telling the difference between the men and women and am baffled that sometimes the male heroes are acted by women, which I guess further proves my point.

As far as animation goes maybe I'm behind but most anime looks terrible. It's not fluid at all. That or they blow their load on the action sequences and leave the rest of the stuff to look low budget. I guess that's all that matters to the fans who make thousands of Linkin Park music videos using them.

And you ever been to an anime convention? Eat onions for a week straight and don't bath. That's what the one I went to smelled like. There's being a nerd, such as myself whose currently posting on a Ninja Turtles message board, and then there's living the nerd. These people spoke using internet lingo, such as brb. Most of them either looked like their Mommy dressed them or a Halloween store exploded near their bedroom. If that's not bad enough hearing them talk is the real frightening part. Some of them think they're Japanese which is just plain sad and the others just sound like every nerd stereotype you've ever heard in a movie of TV series.

Anime fans are like a whole different race/gender/religion of people all together. They're a bunch of bizarre smelling ape creatures that like hair gel and metrosexuals. I just don't, and won't ever understand them.

Don't even get me started on the ones who like the video games...



Um... well not all animes are like Naruto though. Honestly Naruto is like probably one of the few where I've seen something like that done.

Stuff like Hokuto no Ken, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, heck even stuff like One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin and even Full Metal Alchemist don't try to explain every single attack in explicit detail. Heck even Bleach doesn't do that, and Bleach sucks harder than Naruto does in all honesty. Not saying they never do it, but unlike Naruto they don't do it all the time is what I'm saying. Now granted in series like Zatch Bell it does come up, but it's done in a way where the strategical elements that are used ARE that amazing, and in all honesty sometimes it just helps you get why it actually worked. Cause at least in Zatch Bell something will make you go WTF until it's explained and then suddenly you're like "Oh man I never expected that; that's what happened!" Another example of a series where it's used wisely is Detective Conan. An extremely long mystery series, but a damn good one.

And honestly I think Naruto is a horrible series anyways. I mean I liked it years ago back when my only anime experience was DBZ, but the series has turned to garbage, and I've found better series so I feel that Naruto is a bottom of the barrel series. About as overrated as FF7 even. It's fandom is just as bad too to be honest.

But anyways we're talking about shounen action series. Which by itself is just one genre, and is mostly catered to teenage boys anyways. Also not all animes break that rule. Not all animes explain stuff. That's just one of the many stereotypes it seems to get just because it happens in pokemon, yugioh, and Naruto.

Animation wise... well I won't lie to you. Anime has it's bad animation moments, and it's good animation moments. Some series like Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann are animated beautifully. Like every episode is 40% of the entire animation budget. It's just that damn awesome, but with the long series like Naruto. You will see the animation is a bit on the sketchy side at times because of the budget. Then again it's not like Western animation has the best budget either. I mean it's not like all cartoons can have disney movie quality even though we wish they could. Oh and to be honest I wasn't a big fan of cowboy bebop either... I just didn't like it. I honestly don't get why people think it's the greatest thing ever. I mean animation and choreography it's good. Plot wise though not so much in my opinion at least. I never did like any of the characters.

And well as for voices... all I can say is the Japanese voices are really good and fitting. It's obvious to all anime fans that the english voices just never match up, and rarely EVER fit the characters. Honestly compare japanese One Piece to 4kids One Piece. You'll see the difference.

I've personally never been to an anime convention, but I honestly don't think it's as bad as you say, and even if it is I can assure you it's probably just as bad at comic con and other American comic conventions. Not to mention the sci fi conventions too. After all you think the basement dwellers only come out for anime conventions? Not to mention they dress up the same way... especially in their little costumes. I mean honestly it's not like anime conventions are the only guilty party in this.

And heck knows I don't act like those people do. Then again I consider myself a casual anime fan. Heck if I did go to an anime con. I'd be like one of those guys that DOESN'T cosplay and I'd wear regular street clothes. I like video games, but I'm not some hardcore gamer or anything either. I mean anime and video games are just hobbies to me. Not my way of life, but when I see all the anime bashing on this forum. It's like you're indirectly insulting me. Even if you're not trying too. I feel a lot of anime haters use too many stereotypes to classify anime and its fans, but not all anime fans are like the ones you described. Just as not all animes are like the ones you described too. I'm not going to say you're blinded by your hatred, but I'm pretty sure there are people who would say that.

But ah well... I can't force you to like something. All I'm asking for is for people to respect that there are anime fans on this forum so please just tone down the hate a bit. After all not all anime fans are bad, and they deserve respect just as much as anyone.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

Oh guys, common!

Fact: Not all anime are about magical powers.
Fact: Saying that anime are only about magical powers is stereotyping.
Fact: Anime and cartoon are entirely different art.

I love anime. I was an otaku for a long time. I may not be an otaku anymore, but I am definitely an enthusiast. IF SOMEONE INSULTS ANIME, I AM DEFINITELY OFFENDED.

I love cartoons. My place is filled with their existence. Let's not start an unncessary debate about which is better or not.

:)

TMNT is a cartoon. It had the anime version in Japan, am I correct. Some of the latter TMNT seasons appeared like anime. you know my preference in my earlier post. I'll repeat it-- I prefer TMNT cartoon version and not TMNT anime-like version. Not that I don't like anime. It's jsut that if I want to watch an anime episode, I'll pop in a Slam Dunk (THIS HAS NO POWERS) by Takehiko Inoue DVD or a New Mobile Report Gundam Wing (THIS HAS NO POWERS) in the player. Though, Naruto and Bleach (they are more than 100 episodes AND DEFINITELY HAVE STORIES), have new episodes. I might watch them in the weekend. Hehehe.

:lol:

[The Terror of Death]

[B]Anime does not have good storytelling. Anime is about barfing exposition into your face in long monologues or in inappropriate situations.

Stop me if you've seen this one
Good guy attacks bad guy, bad guy deflects the attack and then talks about it for two episodes.

Bad guy attacks good guy, good guy asks bad guy why he's bad. Bad guy stops and explains their entire life story in the middle of a fight. The only episodes of "Naurto" I saw took place during a martial arts tournament where some kid in orange fought another kid who looked like an emo jock. All the orange one kept doing was making copies of himself and it never worked yet he kept doing it, probably because it didn't cost money to reanimate it. Then out of no where the emo jock starts babbling about his life story. I'm sorry but if I paid to watch two people beat the hell out of each other I'd be pretty pissed if they started sharing life experiences.

I bring that series up because anytime I make a claim anime is garbage they bring it up. I've also seen Bleach and don't get me started on how horrid that was.

No offense but if you think the best anime television has to offer is Cowboy Bebop, Dragonball Z, Naruto and Bleach which alot of people do, then you are sadly mistaken.

I'm not trying to say there's not a lot of bad anime because trust me I sat through alot of crappy ones that I regret watching but you sound like you saw most of the bad and none of the good. There are a dozen anime that hold up to great american cartoons like Justice League, Batman,TMNT, Spectacular Spiderman, and etc you just have to know how to look for them.

(As much as you stereotype, I actually agree with some of what you said)

[cup-mikey-gertha]

Anime does not have good storytelling. Anime is about barfing exposition into your face in long monologues or in inappropriate situations.

I AM DEFINTELY OFFENDED ON THIS STATEMENT OF YOURS AND I'M VERY SURE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE IN THE FORUMS.

:evil:

But, hey, everyone's entitled to his/her opinion. You can go on believing on that yourself for all the time you want.

So it just means to say that you dispise the anime version of TMNT-- Mutant Turtles: Superman Legend (ミュータント・タートルズ超人伝説偏, Myūtanto Tātoruzu: Chōjin Densetsu Hen.

Well.

:oops:

[Drtooth]

I agree. TMNT 2k3 ended with the defeat of Tengu Shredder. Enter the Dragons II pretty much had a happy ending for all once Tengu Shredder was defeated.

Also if you really look at Fast Forward and BTTS. They don't really connect to the timeline of the first five seasons. I mean sure you could say they're part of the timeline somewhere, but they don't directly connect to the first five seasons. Making them more like spin offs or sequel seasons than an actual part of the continuity.


The one thing I say that TLS has to offer is that it DID have an ending that could have worked for the series finale. They wrote the season almost as if it was the last. Sure, it had pilfered completely from Naruto, and it was basically a cheesy gimmick... but they act like there was another season, all the while building stuff up they never got into. BTTS and FF both fail to have that sort of focus, because they didn't ever think that FF would end halfway before it was supposed to and BTTS would be it.

Fact: Not all anime are about magical powers.
Fact: Saying that anime are only about magical powers is stereotyping.
Fact: Anime and cartoon are entirely different art.

Finally. I hate this whole thing that when it got mainstream everything had to be Dragon Ball Z or Pokemon... That's why I do half my anime watching from those crappy 1 dollar tapes they throw away at Korean markets. Stuff like Doraemon, Kochikame, Crayon Shin-Chan (outside of the dreadful Adult Swim dub), Dr. Slump... all the goood stuff stays in Japan... sometimes we get a diamond like One Piece (I love that one, but did they really need to make Thriller Bark a year long story arc?), but mostly we'll get some sort of toy commercial for the kids and one of those boring little girl slice of life moe things where one of them turns out to be an alien, and they don't even do anything interresting until the last episode.

When it comes to anime for me, outside of a few, I'm all about classics, and especially 1970's-1980's stuff.

[Jon]

Frankly, with the stuff in here as well as in "officially ticked" thread, it's becoming clear Spitfire doesn't want to watch shows for fear he might actually find something he likes (after claiming all of such a thing as 'bad'). As he's made note of seeing ads or previews from DVDs for shows and basing his displeasure on those simple viewings. Along with the stereotyping/umbrellaing [maybe not a word, but using it for the sake of this post] in here.

[The Terror of Death]

So that this thread somewhat stays on topic:

I feel the quality went down beginning with season 5. The origin stuff was good and so was the Splinter and Karai subplots but everything else was meh to me. The acolytes were a waste of character space, the turtles themselves received less focus than other seasons, most of the fights were boring energy blast battles, and the animation was inconsistent. I sat through a majority of the episodes somewhat bored. It tried to be an epic final season but that hurt more than helped. I consider Fast Forward too be a lot better. It wasn't too focused like TLS, the fights were a good medium between special weapon attacks and martial arts, the villains and allies had much more personality than Tengu Shredder, his minions, and the acolytes, and the story didn't try to be bigger than it actually was.

If I had to choose between having TLS, BttS, and FF quality episodes for future seasons (since were obviously never returning to seasons 1-4 quality) I would choose FF. BttS and TLS focused too much on their gimmicky aspects unlike FF in which the the future was secondary to the characters most of the time.

[Drtooth]

I say FF should have just continued... by the end of the run, it got the focus and voice that it was struggling to find in the first 13 episodes. To me, FF was trying to take the 2k3 characters and make them into something from OT, but without any of the charm. I really think the Darius story needed closure, and they were going to close that out.... but...

BTTS seems like it wants to be all the various rejected ideas (with the obvious exception), 2k3, and FF all at once. As I said, had they gone entirely with the Cyberworld concept, no doubt there would be more episodes like "Superquest." "Super Power Struggle" seems like the sample script for the one about the Super Heroes (though, frankly, it seems like every episode of Darkwing Duck with Gizmoduck in it without the humor)... and that thing with the Baby Turtles seems like it's from that stupid idea. I miss the younger turtles we had in "Tales of Leo" and that one where they trained Casey Jones without even knowing it. Not these Tweety Bird looking ones.

The problem with BTTS is that its concepts sound better than they came out to be... I mean, I liked the idea of Serling trying to build his own time portal and getting lost in time... I like the idea of Turtles brainwashed to be Foot Soldiers...but when the episodes came out, they focused too much on goofy comedic aspects that just don't fit... as well as cliches that would have fit better in the OT. Not to mention the constant flipping around buildings and skateboarding around the lair... sure, we had that stuff before but it was worked into the plot, and didn't last half the episode.

[Spitfire]

Frankly, with the stuff in here as well as in "officially ticked" thread, it's becoming clear Spitfire doesn't want to watch shows for fear he might actually find something he likes (after claiming all of such a thing as 'bad'). As he's made note of seeing ads or previews from DVDs for shows and basing his displeasure on those simple viewings. Along with the stereotyping/umbrellaing [maybe not a word, but using it for the sake of this post] in here.

After reading everyone's post yours was the only one invalid enough to warrant a response. I will watch virtually anything at least once, it's a common rule. I can learn even from watching garbage. I've seen an entire episode of Yu Gi O before, it's like watching a toy advertisement. The preview for Chaotic was a toy advertisement and proclaimed itself to be the "coolest card game ever". Any rational adult should be able to see that, which is why it baffles me any one older then 12 would watch it.

I have no fear of liking things I've just seen a lot of garbage. Bleach and Naurto aren't the only anime I've been subjected to. I dated a girl who was into it for two years and saw quite a bit of it. Please excuse my spelling, rusty memory, Inuyasha, DearS, Marmalade Boy*Seriously worst title ever*, Elfen Laden*Supposedly the number one anime series of all time...*, Hellsing, Devilman, Vampire Hunter D, Outlaw Star, Doki Doki School Hours, FLCL, and countless others whose names elude me at the moment.

There's also the laughably bad live action Japanese shows but that's a different story.

The main root of my distaste for anime is the storytelling. I'm huge on it and if a movie/show has poor storytelling I can't subject myself to it. Sometimes I can through a bad movie/series just because the story is engaging. They take too long to establish and build everything. There's tons of pointless dialogue and usually several inappropriately placed comedy scenes. Most of the time they create a character just for that purpose. As I stated before the biggest killer is the exposition. They shovel it into your face and just don't know how to gracefully reveal.

Now yeah obviously every anime doesn't fit into this stereotype but 90% of what I've seen does. I'm sure in the deepest darkest caves of the internet there lies some super amazing anime I've never seen but the fact I'd have to go digging all over to find it, and probably watch a bunch of crappy ones to get to it, voids it. I'm all about obscurity and independent films and such but anime is already something I dislike so digging around for more of it to find something good feels like repeatably hitting myself with a hammer. It's like asking myself to be tortured.

As for the rest of you I apologize if I "offended" you. And yes the turtles anime is horrid, I would know I helped dub it.

[Ninjinister]

If you eat nothing but fiber, you're going to poop a lot. If you watch nothing but mainstream shounen, that's what you're going to think all anime is like.

[Jon]

*Spitfire*

"Invalid enough" huh? So you don't believe you're overdoing it with the attitude about Anime, along with other shows; giving off such comments on your dislike, on grounds (as you have noted) of seeing one type or just watching an ad for a show.... whatever.

[Spitfire]

*Spitfire*

"Invalid enough" huh? So you don't believe you're overdoing it with the attitude about Anime, along with other shows; giving off such comments on your dislike, on grounds (as you have noted) of seeing one type or just watching an ad for a show.... whatever.

You don't believe your overdoing it by assuming this
it's becoming clear Spitfire doesn't want to watch shows for fear he might actually find something he likes

One type? I could listen to every country band in the world, I'm not gonna start liking it. There are things some of us just don't like. I never said what I thought was fact, get over it.

[VaughnMichael]

*spitfire*

"invalid enough" huh? So you don't believe you're overdoing it with the attitude about anime, along with other shows; giving off such comments on your dislike, on grounds (as you have noted) of seeing one type or just watching an ad for a show.... Whatever.
seriously who f2cking cares if someone enjoyes anime or not.
Things suck, things don't suck, wa wa wa wa wa.:cry:
God damn get over yourselves already, it's the freakin holiday season and I've had enough of this sh1t to last me a life time.
If I see one more bitchy thread I'm hunting the person down and blowing their brains out, that includes asking if the show is cancled or not.:evil:

EDIT: This thread is pointless from the start as all it did was highlight one persons opinion and could have been put into a number of other threads.
There really is no need for this thing to be open anymore, seriously a mod should close it before more bullsh1t bickering goes on.:sleep:

[ToTheNines]

EDIT: [B]This thread is pointless from the start as all it did was highlight one persons opinion

Truth. Anyone can come out and say they think the show ends at any given season (or even episode) and as much as they want to believe that... it really don't mean ****.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

Oh guys, common!

Fact: Not all anime are about magical powers.
Fact: Saying that anime are only about magical powers is stereotyping.
Fact: Anime and cartoon are entirely different art.

I love anime. I was an otaku for a long time. I may not be an otaku anymore, but I am definitely an enthusiast. IF SOMEONE INSULTS ANIME, I AM DEFINITELY OFFENDED.

I love cartoons. My place is filled with their existence. Let's not start an unncessary debate about which is better or not.

:)

TMNT is a cartoon. It had the anime version in Japan, am I correct. Some of the latter TMNT seasons appeared like anime. you know my preference in my earlier post. I'll repeat it-- I prefer TMNT cartoon version and not TMNT anime-like version. Not that I don't like anime. It's jsut that if I want to watch an anime episode, I'll pop in a Slam Dunk (THIS HAS NO POWERS) by Takehiko Inoue DVD or a New Mobile Report Gundam Wing (THIS HAS NO POWERS) in the player. Though, Naruto and Bleach (they are more than 100 episodes AND DEFINITELY HAVE STORIES), have new episodes. I might watch them in the weekend. Hehehe.

:lol:

True, but I just never really saw TMNT at any point as being anime like. I mean I never watched it and thought once that they were trying to mimic anime or anything. Honestly the only thing I can think of where people would even think they were trying to mimic anime was when the turtles yelled out their attacks, but that to me doesn't really mean much, and it's more like a coincidence.

The one thing I say that TLS has to offer is that it DID have an ending that could have worked for the series finale. They wrote the season almost as if it was the last. Sure, it had pilfered completely from Naruto, and it was basically a cheesy gimmick... but they act like there was another season, all the while building stuff up they never got into. BTTS and FF both fail to have that sort of focus, because they didn't ever think that FF would end halfway before it was supposed to and BTTS would be it.

Meh saying the lost season ripped off Naruto is like saying Avatar the last Airbender is a ripoff of Naruto, and well it's really not, but people still like to compare it to Naruto for no real reason. Personally I see no reason to compare the lost season to anime. I mean that's like saying Mucha Lucha or Xiaolin Showdown likes to copy anime, and heck knows they weren't. At least from what I could see.

As for FF and BTTS... well they're like to TMNT what Laverne and Shirley, Mork and Mindy, and Joanie and Chachi were to Happy Days in my view.



Finally. I hate this whole thing that when it got mainstream everything had to be Dragon Ball Z or Pokemon... That's why I do half my anime watching from those crappy 1 dollar tapes they throw away at Korean markets. Stuff like Doraemon, Kochikame, Crayon Shin-Chan (outside of the dreadful Adult Swim dub), Dr. Slump... all the goood stuff stays in Japan... sometimes we get a diamond like One Piece (I love that one, but did they really need to make Thriller Bark a year long story arc?), but mostly we'll get some sort of toy commercial for the kids and one of those boring little girl slice of life moe things where one of them turns out to be an alien, and they don't even do anything interresting until the last episode.

When it comes to anime for me, outside of a few, I'm all about classics, and especially 1970's-1980's stuff.

Meh most of the outspoken anime fans are the 14 year olds with ADHD that have a 5 second attention span. The reason they love stuff like DBZ and Naruto is because it's just nothing but constant action, action, action. For some reason American kids love that stuff, and hate on the good animes that are... well actually good because they aren't just all action and explosions 24/7. I never really got why that is.

Although I still enjoy pokemon believe it or not. It's just one of those shows I still love to this day. Same with Yugioh and Digimon really. I don't think they're the best ever, but I still find them entertaining to watch.

I say FF should have just continued... by the end of the run, it got the focus and voice that it was struggling to find in the first 13 episodes. To me, FF was trying to take the 2k3 characters and make them into something from OT, but without any of the charm. I really think the Darius story needed closure, and they were going to close that out.... but...

BTTS seems like it wants to be all the various rejected ideas (with the obvious exception), 2k3, and FF all at once. As I said, had they gone entirely with the Cyberworld concept, no doubt there would be more episodes like "Superquest." "Super Power Struggle" seems like the sample script for the one about the Super Heroes (though, frankly, it seems like every episode of Darkwing Duck with Gizmoduck in it without the humor)... and that thing with the Baby Turtles seems like it's from that stupid idea. I miss the younger turtles we had in "Tales of Leo" and that one where they trained Casey Jones without even knowing it. Not these Tweety Bird looking ones.

The problem with BTTS is that its concepts sound better than they came out to be... I mean, I liked the idea of Serling trying to build his own time portal and getting lost in time... I like the idea of Turtles brainwashed to be Foot Soldiers...but when the episodes came out, they focused too much on goofy comedic aspects that just don't fit... as well as cliches that would have fit better in the OT. Not to mention the constant flipping around buildings and skateboarding around the lair... sure, we had that stuff before but it was worked into the plot, and didn't last half the episode.

Honestly I agree. Fast Forward should have continued as that was far more entertaining. I don't really hate BTTS or anything, but I just liked FF more because FF was all about the fun. It's like with BTTS they tried and failed to give the fans what they wanted since FF was brought out. Personally I blame the fate of FF on the people who hated on it. Cause hey we could have had an awesome new season of FF instead of BTTS.

[Coola Yagami]

I always felt TMNT was kinda anime-ish in the sense of all the Japanese elements and the fact that the story was always on-going. Things that happened in one episode would carry over to the next, and even the filler episodes would carry over stuff from the past episodes. It wasn't all stand-alone. Like for example, in the Kirby ep, the TMNT were living with April since the Foot was lurking the sewers, in the Return of Savanti episode, Don was sick from when he was infected by Bishop's mutants, and in the Cousin Sid ep, the Turtles were still recovering from the Exodus battle.

[Krang]

Anime does not have good storytelling. Anime is about barfing exposition into your face in long monologues or in inappropriate situations.
Anime is not a genre (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22anime+is+not+a+genre%22&btnG=Search).

The only episodes of "Naurto" I saw
Not that I'm claiming that Naruto is a good show at all, but it's funny that you act like you know everything about it from watching just a few episodes. How many anime series have you seen entirely (meaning watching every episode from start to finish)?

[...Many ridiculously ignorant generalizations later...]

Anime fans are like a whole different race/gender/religion of people all together. They're a bunch of bizarre smelling ape creatures that like hair gel and metrosexuals. I just don't, and won't ever understand them.
If you're talking about hardcore anime fans who obsess over it, kiss up to dub voice actors at cons, make up fan pairings, etc., then I can agree with you there based on what I've seen. But if you're talking about everyone who watches anime period, then you can file this one with the rest of the ignorant generalizations...

Now yeah obviously every anime doesn't fit into this stereotype but 90% of what I've seen does.
This page (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/) currently lists 5071 anime titles, and even that list is still nowhere near complete. I doubt you've seen even 1% of that from start to finish, so I think you need to look at the bigger picture, stop it with the generalizations, and acknowledge that you're not the anime expert you pretend to be.

On a side note, sorry for derailing this thread further. As suggested earlier, it probably should be locked, but I just wanted to make a few comments about these minor annoyances first.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

Sorry I feel bad in a way. Because I feel I led to the derailing of the topic.

[Krang]

Don't worry about it, the thread was pointless from the beginning like Vaughn mentioned.

[Anarky]

Well, as much as I'm not a fan of generalizations and going "Boo! Anime sucks!" I can see where Spitfire's coming from to a degree. There just are times when I can't stand looking at it, the fans or any form of people involved. The exception to that rule is, of course, the "Fist of the North Star"-phenomenon, which is undoubtedly the manliest and therefore best anime ever.

There are times where I just can't look at all the hero-shots and powering-up-phases we get to see in mainstream anime and the endless fighting paired with some sorry excuses for dialog. And I am fully aware that not every anime is like that, but the annoyance kind of carries over to the rest of anime in general.

Fans, especially the ones calling themselves otaku, should be euthanized for the good of humanity, though. Nothing good can and will come from them. Especially the ones who engage in in more than just watching/collecting anime and related items.

I guess that's all that matters to the fans who make thousands of Linkin Park music videos using them.

Didn't you know? It is scientific fact that it's not allowed to be called an AMV unless it has music by Linkin Park and images from Naruto.

As for "Boo, thread pointless" it might have started out pointless, but it's now evolved into a somewhat interesting discussion. So I'd suggest that we just carry on.

[Cipher]

I'll just hit both the main arguments in this thread.

90% of anime is terrible, because 90% of anime is aimed at ten-year-old boys. Heavy on exposition and cliches. Those that target an older audience have the potential to be better, but often aren't. I used to love anime, but now there are only three I really still enjoy. Dragon Ball (Z/GT), because its nostalgic and doesn't take itself seriously, Fooly-Cooly because its the greatest, most Fruedian madcap anything ever, and Hellsing, because it's incredibly stylish and almost doesn't seem Japanese.

There're plenty of good anime, but yeah, they're covered in a pile of other anime that's not worthing watching at all. And if I like an anime, its because I'd like it if it was live-action, American, or whatever else.

As for the "TMNT ended with Season 5" argument, I can see where you're coming from. Think of that like the ending to the first "volume" of the show. As for what's come after, I like alot of the concepts, but the execution has been spotty. I've seen better sequel shows, and worse sequel shows.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

Well, as much as I'm not a fan of generalizations and going "Boo! Anime sucks!" I can see where Spitfire's coming from to a degree. There just are times when I can't stand looking at it, the fans or any form of people involved. The exception to that rule is, of course, the "Fist of the North Star"-phenomenon, which is undoubtedly the manliest and therefore best anime ever.

There are times where I just can't look at all the hero-shots and powering-up-phases we get to see in mainstream anime and the endless fighting paired with some sorry excuses for dialog. And I am fully aware that not every anime is like that, but the annoyance kind of carries over to the rest of anime in general.

Fans, especially the ones calling themselves otaku, should be euthanized for the good of humanity, though. Nothing good can and will come from them. Especially the ones who engage in in more than just watching/collecting anime and related items.



Didn't you know? It is scientific fact that it's not allowed to be called an AMV unless it has music by Linkin Park and images from Naruto.

As for "Boo, thread pointless" it might have started out pointless, but it's now evolved into a somewhat interesting discussion. So I'd suggest that we just carry on.

I agree about Fist of the North Star. Though JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is far more manly and awesome.

So then as an anime fan that enjoys the occasional fanfiction and likes to discuss my interests on anime forums. Would that classify me in the "smelly, greasy, basement dwelling nerd" category? Cause you'd be wrong if you say it did. Besides as I said it's not like anime fans are the only ones who are like that either. Just look at the comic cons, sci fi cons, role playing/fantasy cons. You'll find that they're just as smelly and just as greasy as any of the so-called "bad anime fans."

and no I'm not calling you out on that statement. I'm just making a point is all...

And I agree about the AMVs. I mean there are some really good AMVs out there but they all get overshadowed by the millions of crappy AMVs about Naruto and Sasuke set to some freakin' Linkin Park or Eversance music, and most of the AMV messages are the same. The two characters wanna screw each other. That's it.

Freakin' pisses me off. Thank goodness though there's decent AMVs out there.

[Kendamu]

Meh most of the outspoken anime fans are the 14 year olds with ADHD that have a 5 second attention span. The reason they love stuff like DBZ and Naruto is because it's just nothing but constant action, action, action.

You really haven't really watched Dragonball Z, have you? That show is so full of "standing around" filler that I can't stand watching it. The manga, on the other hand, which encompasses both Dragonball and Dragonball Z (no matter what VIZ would have you believe) is a fun, lighthearted martial arts adventure manga that, even in it's more action-oriented parts, is paced in a way that it isn't over loading you on just that one aspect of the series. The subtle humor involved that sometimes makes fun of itself (especially in the Boo Saga) in the manga version really helps, too.

To say that Dragonball Z is the stereotype of something that moves so fast that it only keeps the attention of ADHD kids really shows how little you know about it. It's 291 episodes of standing around with some action thrown in once in awhile.

It's like saying that the Vol. 1 TMNT comics are stupid because you don't like the way the fight scenes worked out in 2k3.

[Tomoshibi Amatsu]

You really haven't really watched Dragonball Z, have you? That show is so full of "standing around" filler that I can't stand watching it. The manga, on the other hand, which encompasses both Dragonball and Dragonball Z (no matter what VIZ would have you believe) is a fun, lighthearted martial arts adventure manga that, even in it's more action-oriented parts, is paced in a way that it isn't over loading you on just that one aspect of the series. The subtle humor involved that sometimes makes fun of itself (especially in the Boo Saga) in the manga version really helps, too.

To say that Dragonball Z is the stereotype of something that moves so fast that it only keeps the attention of ADHD kids really shows how little you know about it. It's 291 episodes of standing around with some action thrown in once in awhile.

It's like saying that the Vol. 1 TMNT comics are stupid because you don't like the way the fight scenes worked out in 2k3.

But it keeps kids attention. Especially those with ADHD because of it's low level of plot. After all you don't get much more basic than a "save the world from the next big bad guy" plot every arc. Honestly you think kids with ADHD would follow a shorter series with a much deeper and complex plot to it? No way. Simple plot plus tons of action and explosions seems to please just fine.

Also to answer your question. Yes I've watched DBZ. I know there are times when all they do is stand around powering up. Heck I make jokes about that all the time, but I didn't say what I did because I know "little about it." It's just common sense really. Just so you know though I'm not saying anything about the original Dragonball as I found that more enjoyable. Just the DBZ phenomenon, and honestly when you've asked a lot of DBZ fans what they like about it, and their answer is mainly "the fighting" that says a WHOLE lot.

Just look at Naruto and Bleach. Those series are now popular with those same DBZ fans because it's more action than plot. Honestly you think saving Sasuke is a deep plot? Heck Bleach doesn't even HAVE a plot, and no matter what kind of plot you try to think it has. It really doesn't have one.

So yeah DBZ, Naruto, and Bleach. Three hugely popular series in the west that you don't really need to waste your braincells on. No wonder they're so big compared to other, better series. After all you don't really need much of an attention span to get what's happening. Which leads me back to what I said.

[sdp]

To me, TMNT 2k3 started with Fast Forward.

[shuriken]

...This is the thread about 2K3 ending with enter the Dragons II Right ?
Yeah I agree because that had a nice feeling of closure. Karai and Chaplin get together (which I thought was kinda sweet cuz she hated him at first but obviously grew on him, anyway) I mean sure Rat King was still out there, Stockman and Bishop too but that's about it. They defeated the Tengu Shredder, and saved the world while they were at it.
As stated before it had some elements in the story/plot/character department that I didn't like. The other acolytes were pretty useless, they just took away screen time from the turtles and gave Raph a chick he could oogle. I hated the weapons given to them and the fact that they all became dragons, that felt really cheap and rushed. I also would have enjoyed if the Tengu SHredder actually kicked some ass and fought as opposed to blasting everything in his path.
I liked Tengu SHredder's design and his mystics, as well as the fact that Oroku Saki was once a hero corrupted by the power of the Tengu, and had to be taken down by his former team mates so to speak. The filler episodes were pretty enjoyable, although I wouldn't even call them that due to the fact that they were semi important to the plot (ie Ancient on giving them their bandanas, Nano joining the Justice Force).
To me FF and BTTS are spin-offs like Angel or Batman Beyond (kinda). You could watch it and enjoy it for what it is, or complain that it isn't as good as the previous 4-5 seasons were.
Now onto this anime business, I do not hate anime, I am aware that many, many, many people enjoy it, I just don't think anyone should be crucified for disliking it. I myself enjoy yu yu hakusho and Ghost in the Shell as well as Dragonball. And yes I did like watching DBZ back when my cousins got me into it. Although there was a lot of uneeded gasping at how powerful someone was or the fact someone had died for like the 3rd time and couldn't be revived. I seriously can't watch a whole episode of DBZ anymore without wanted to down a tequila shot but I digress... I am aware that most of the mainstream anime is crap, and I know asstated before that there is a lot of good anime out there. But hey I'm sure there are tons of people that consider TMNT crap *GASP! Blasphemy* but does that bother me? No. More of my TMNT to enjoy. But whatever f*ck it I'm tired.

[Krang]

anime in general
90% of anime
I see now that it was a bad idea to leave this thread open.