Talkback: Laird's 2k3 development notes!

[oldmanwinters]

I figured it's a pretty big deal that Peter Laird is finally making public the nature of his input on the 2k3 episodes on his blog (email correspondence with Lloyd Goldfine), so why not devote a thread to it so the fans can offer their opinions on what might have been, what actually was, and could it have been either better or worse?

Here is the Index, (so far):

Rogue in the House (Part 1 & 2)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/blast-from-past-296-notes-from.html

Reflections-Big Brawl IV
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/blast-from-past-297-more-notes-from.html

The King (possible origin of the multiple endings!)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/blast-from-past-298-more-notes-from.html

Nightmares Recycled THE BANNED EPISODE!!!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blast-from-past-300-more-notes-from.html

Hunted, Touch and Go, Nobody's Fool, Survivalist Skills/H.A.T.E.
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blast-from-past-301-more-notes-from.html

Episode #100: Tale of Master Yoshi
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blast-from-past-303-more-notes.html

Ultimate Drako concept
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/blast-from-past-347-drako-designs.html

On Shredder being an Utrom:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/blast-from-past-139-evil-utrom-designs.html

The Darkness Within
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/blast-from-past-369-more-development.html

Junklantis, April's Artifact, Rogue in the House Pt.1&2
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/blast-from-past-370-more-notes-from.html

On Bishop's character history and motivation:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/blast-from-past-371-more-notes-from.html

Nobody's Fool, The Lesson, The Entity Below, and the final (yeah, right!) fate of the Shredder!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-372-more-notes-from.html

Mission of Gravity
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-373-more-notes-from.html

New Blood and references to Secret Origins Part 3
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-374-more-notes-from.html

The Lesson, The Darkness Within, The Entity Below
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-375-feb-3-2004-more.html

The proposed "TMNT: Overload" series (June 28, 2007)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/tmnt-overload.html

The Lesson
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-376-more-notes-from.html

The Entity Below and Mission of Gravity
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-377-more-notes-from.html

The Lesson
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-378-feb-16-2004.html

The Darkness Within (2nd draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-383-feb-23-2004.html

Time Travails
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-384-mar-6-2004-re.html

Reality Check
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-385-mar-9-2004-ep-71.html

Same as It Never Was (1st draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-386-mar-22-2004-re-tmnt.html

Across the Universe + The Real World
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-387-mar-23-2004-re-tmnt.html

Across the Universe 1st draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-388-mar-30-2004-re-tmnt.html

Bishop's Gambit
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-389-mar-30-2004-re-tmnt.html

Bishop's Gambit, Reality Check (SuperTurtles designs) and thoughts on the Fred Wolf series:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-290-april-3-2004-re.html

Reality Check (more SuperTurtles concepts) + The Real World
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-291-apr-2-2004-comments.html

Same as It Never Was 1st Draft (with creepy Hun/Baxter hybrid art!)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-293-apr-6-2004-re-tmnt.html

"Planet Racers, "Bishop's Gambit," and "The Real World"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-294-apr-8-2004-re-ep-72.html

"Same as It Never Was" final draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-295-apr-14-2004.html

Bishop's Gambit (Episode 76)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-296-notes-on-ep-76.html

The Real World + Character designs for "Same As It Never Was" and "Reality Check"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-297-re-april-15-2004-72.html

Exodus Parts 1-2
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-298-april-21-2004-re.html

Exodus Pt.1 (first draft), Pt. 2(outline)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-299-april-30-2004-re-ep.html

Season 4 overview
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-300-re-may-11-2004-tmnt.html

Exodus I (3rd Draft) & Exodus II (1st Draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-301-re-ep-77-exodus.html

Exodus I (3rd Draft), May 15, 2004
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-302-may-15-2004-re-ep.html

Exodus I (3rd Draft), May 17, 2004
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-303-may-17-2004-re-ep.html

Season 4
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-304-may-17-2004-re.html

On the feasibility of Shredder's spaceship launch in "Exodus":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-305.html

Exodus II (final draft) + "Sons of the Silent Age"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-306-may-25-2004-re-ep.html

"Cousin Sid" + "The People's Choice"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-307-may-31-2004-re-tmnt.html

Laird on "sub-branding" the series:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/may-27-2004-re-sub-branding.html

"Dragon's Brew"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-308-june-15-2004-re.html

"The People's Choice"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-309-june-22-200-re.html

"I, Monster"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-310-june-25-200-re.html

Sons of the Silent Age
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-311-re-comments-on.html

Wing and a Prayer
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-312-july-2-2004.html

I, Monster
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-313-july-6-2004-re-tmnt.html

Grudge Match
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-314-july-11-2004-first.html

Wing and a Prayer, Bad Day, Aliens Among Us, Dragons Rising, Rat King's origins
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-314-july-17-2004-notes.html

Grudge Match 2nd draft, Wing and a Prayer 1st draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-315-july-20-2004-ep-84.html

Wing and a Prayer 2nd draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/subj-notes-on-ep.html

Still Nobody + Wing and a Prayer final draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-317-august-2-2004-re-fw.html

Aliens Among Us, Samurai Tourist, The Ancient One
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-318-august-3-2004.html

Bad Day-The Ninja Tribunal
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-319-august-5-2004.html

Dragon's Rising-Scion of the Shredder
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-321-august-13-2004-re.html

Prodigal Son
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-322-august-19-2004-ep.html

All Hallows Thieves-Samurai Tourist
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/august-24-2004-comments-on-ep-90-first.html

Outbreak
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-324-september-2-2004-re.html

Samurai Tourist + Prodigal Son
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-325-september-7-2004.html

The Ancient One
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-326-september-8-2004.html

The Trouble with Augie
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-327-omments-on-premise.html

Outbreak + Insane in the Membrane
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-328-september-12-2004.html

The Ancient One + Insane in the Membrane
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-329-september-16-2004.html

Prodigal Son + Trouble with Augie
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-330.html

Insane in the Membrane + Return of Savanti
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-331-september-24-2004.html

Prodigal Son
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-332-september-28-2004.html

Trouble with Augie + Insane in the Membrane
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-333-september-29-2004.html


Index continued in next post.

[oldmanwinters]

Outbreak
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-334-september-30-2004.html

Adventures in Turtle Sitting
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-336-october-1-2004.html

"Prodigal Son" + Unproduced Justice Force episode
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-337-october-3-2004-re.html

[Unknown "episode 91"] + "The Trouble with Augie" + "Return of Savanti Romero II"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-338-october-4-2004.html

"Return of Savanti Romero I" + "Adventures in Turtle Sitting" + "A Tale of Master Yoshi"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-339.html

Insane in the Membrane
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-340-october-16-2004.html

"A Tale of Master Yoshi" + "Return of Savanti Romero I"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-341-october-19-2004.html

Insane in the Membrane (2nd Draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-342-october-27-2004.html

"Return of Savanti II" + "A Tale of Master Yoshi" + "Good Genes I-II"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-343-november-2-2004.html

"Return of Savanti II" 2nd Draft + Season 5
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-344.html

"Good Genes I-II" + "Ninja Tribunal"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-345-november-12-2004.html

"A Tale of Master Yoshi" 2nd Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-346-november-17-2004.html

"Good Genes I" + "Ninja Tribunal" + "Adventures in Turtle Sitting" 2nd Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-347-november-23-2004.html

"Good Genes I" + "Ninja Tribunal" 1st Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-348-december-7-2004.html

"Good Genes II" final draft + "Ninja Tribunal" 2nd Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-349-december-13-2004.html

"Lap of the Gods" + "Demons and Dragons"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-350-december-21-2004-re.html

"Ninja Tribunal" designs + "Lap of the Gods" + "Legend of the Five Dragons"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-351-january-6-2005-re.html

Prodigal Son (Splinter's new walking stick design) + Demons and Dragons + Beginning of the End
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-352-january-8-2005-re.html

Nightmares Recycled
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/january-30-2005-re-outline-for-ep-110.html

"Nightmares Recycled" + "More Worlds Than One"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-354-january-31-2005.html

"Beginning of the End" + "Legend of the Five Dragons"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-355-february-3-2005.html

Laird's future plans:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/note-to-readers-of-this-blog.html

"Membership Drive" + "New World Order"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-356-february-7-2005-re.html

"Nightmares Recycled" 1st Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-357-february-11-2005.html

"Membership Drive" + "New World Order pt.II"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-358-february-18-2005-re.html

"Nightmares Recycled" 3rd Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-359-february-26-2005.html

"Membership Drive" + "Fathers and Sons"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-360-march-2-2005-re.html

Fathers and Sons
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-460-march-4-2005-re-114.html

"New World Order" I-II
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-464-march-12-2005.html

New World Order + Past and Present + Enter the Dragons
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-465-march-18-2005-re.html

Fathers and Sons + Past and Present
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-466-march-22-200-re.html

Past and Present + Enter the Dragons I-II
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-467-march-30-2005-re.html

Season 4 intro
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-468-april-2-2005-re.html

"Punching Bag"(s) + Season 6
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-469-june-12-2005-re.html

Shorts: "Ice Scream" + "Faster" + "Free Comic Day"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-470-june-15-2005-re.html

Fast Forward "Bible"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-471-july-13-2005-re.html

Future Shellshock
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-472-july-14-2005-re.html

Sh’okaNabo
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-473-july-18-2005-re.html

FF redesigns
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-474-july-25-2005-re-new.html

Future Shellshock
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-475-july-22-2005-re-fw.html

Home Invasion + Headlock Prime
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-476-july-26-2005.html

Obsolete
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-477-july-28-2005-re.html

Concept models + Future Shellshock
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-478.html

Home Invasion
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-479-august-3-2005-re-fw.html

Future Shellshock 2nd draft + Home Invasion
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-480-august-3-2005-re.html

Headlock Prime + Playtime's Over + Future Shellshock 3rd draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/subj-re-show-121-outline-date-thursday.html

FF Revised Designs
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/subj-re-tmnt-season-6-revised-designs.html

Obsolete 1st Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-484-august-9-2005-re.html

Obsolete 2nd Draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-485-august-11-2005-re.html

Playtime's Over + Obsolete
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-486-august-12-2005-re.html

Home Invasion
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-487-august-14-2005-re.html

Home Invasion, Night of Sh'Okanabo, Clash of the Turtle Titans, Bishop to Knight
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-488-august-17-2005.html

Home Invasion + Headlock Prime
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-489-august-18-2005.html

Serling designs
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-490-august-19-2005-re.html

Season 6 design, Headlock Prime, Clash of the Turtle Titans
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-491-august-23-200-re.html

Night of Sh'Okanabo
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-492-august-30-2005-re.html

Playtime's Over, Bishop to Knight
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-493-august-31-2005-re.html

Clash of the Turtle Titans
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-493-september-4-2005-re.html

Bishop to Knight
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-494.html

Bishop to Knight, Bad Blood
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-495-september-9-2005-re.html

Invasion of the Body Snatcher, Night of Sh'Okanabo, Clash of the Turtle Titans
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-496-september-14-2005.html

Space Usagi + Clash of the Turtle Titans, The Freaks Come Out at Night, Bad Blood
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-498-september-15-2005.html

Fly Me to the Moon, Gaminator, Invasion of the Body Snatcher
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-499-september-23-2005.html

Freaks Come Out at Night, Gaminator, The Journal
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-505-october-13-2005-re.html

Freaks Come Out at Night
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-506-october-17-2005-re.html

The Journal + [new premises, nanobots]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-507-october-19-2005-re.html

Graduation Day + [episode micro-springs]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-508-october-23-2005-re.html

The Journal + Graduation Day
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-508-october-23-2005-re.html

Gaminator
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/november-8-2005-re-show-131-gaminator.html

Timing is Everything + Milk Run
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-510-november-10-2005.html

Enter the Jammerhead
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-511.html

[oldmanwinters]

Fall of Darius, Milk Run, The Gaminator
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-512-november-14-2005-re.html

Timing is Everything, Turtle X-tinction, The Gaminator
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-514-november-16-2005-re.html

Episodes 133 + 135
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-515-november-19-2005-re.html

The Fall of Darius, Milk Run, character design of Dark Turtles
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-516-november-17-2005.html

Turtle X-tinction
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-517-november-24-2005-re.html

Enter the Jammerhead, Head of State, DNA is Thicker than Water,
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-518.html

Fall of Darius, DNA is Thicker than Water
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-519-december-8-2005-re.html

Turtle X-Tinction
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-520-december-12-2005-re.html

DNA is Thicker than Water, Fall of Darius (3rd draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-521-december-14-2005-re.html

Cosmic Completist, Head of State, Turtle X-Tinction
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-522-december-17-2005-re.html

Race for Glory, Turtle X-Tinction (3rd draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-523-december-19-2005-re.html

Head of State, Race for Glory, Zixxth Sense
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-524-december-25-2005-re.html

Race for Glory, Head of State (2nd draft), Cosmic Completist
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-525-january-1-2006-re.html

DNA is Thicker than Water
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-526-re-140-dna-is.html

Race for Glory, Zixxth Sense, Cosmic Completist
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/blast-from-past-527-january-4-2006-re.html

DNA is Thicker than Water (2nd draft), Day of Awakening
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-528-january-10-2006-re.html

Day of Awakening (beat sheet), Cosmic Completist, Zixxth Sense
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-529-january-14-2006-re.html

Head of State, DNA is Thicker than Water
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-531-january-20-2006-re.html

Head of State, DNA is Thicker than Water, Zixxth Sense
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-531-january-25-2006-re.html

Head of State, Day of Awakening
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-532-re-huge-mouser.html

Day of Awakening, Zixxth Sense
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-533-february-1-2006-re.html

Fast Forward theme song
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-534-february-23-2006-re.html

FF theme song, FF interstitials
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-535-april-2-2006-re.html

Season 7 springboards
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/february-1-2007-re-here-we-go-again.html

Master Fighter 2015, Triceraton Shredder, unproduced FF eps
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-537-february-13-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-538-february-20-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps, Chrell-Triceraton
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-539-february-24-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps, Triceraton Shred
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-540-march-1-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps, Mortu Vs Mortu
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-541-march-10-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps, Stockman return
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-542-march-21-2007-re-ep.html

Space Usagi
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-543-april-2-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/blast-from-past-544-april-6-2007-re.html

Unproduced FF eps
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-545-april-15-2007-notes.html

CyberShredder
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-546-october-12-2007-re.html

Season 7 redesigns
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-547-october-16-2007-re.html

Tempus Fugit, Season 7 springboards
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-548-november-15-2007-re.html

Tempus Fugit, Something Wicked, Engagement Ring
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-549-november-23-2007.html

Tempus Fugit, Karate Schooled, Hacking Stockman
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-550-december-3-2007.html

Season 7 sub-branding, Engagement Ring
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-551-december-6-2007-re.html

Turtle X-tinction, Karate Schooled, Something Wicked
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-552-december-12-2005-re.html

Karate Schooled, Something Wicked
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-553-december-14-2007-re.html

Web Wranglers, Engagement Ring, Hacking Stockman
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-554-december-19-2007.html

Identity Crisis, Interstitials, Engagement Ring
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-555.html

sub-branding, Superquest, Something Wicked, Identity Crisis
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/blast-from-past-556-january-2-2008-re.html

Hacking Stockman, Web Wranglers, Virtual Reality Check, Incredible Shrinking Serling
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-557.html

Incredible Shrinking Serling, City Under Siege, Identity Crisis
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-558-january-20-2008-re.html

SuperQuest, Sidekickin' It(Super Power Struggle), Identity Crisis, Web Wranglers
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-559-january-23-2008-re.html

Web Wranglers
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-560-january-31-2008-re.html

Turtles Forever/Shredder Wars, Virtual Reality Check, City Under Siege
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-561-february-5-2008.html

Super Power Struggle, Virtual Reality Check, Wedding Bells & Bytes
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-562-february-12-2008-re.html

Wedding Bells & Bytes
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-563.html

City Under Siege, Super Power Struggle, Wedding Bells & Bytes
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-564-february-20-2008-re.html

Virtual Reality Check [Cyber-April], Wedding Bells & Bytes
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-565-march-5-2008-re.html

Wedding Bells & Bytes [Usagi]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-566-march-14-2008-re.html

[Comic Con]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-567-april-16-2008-re.html

Turtles Forever
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-568-may-5-2008re-tmnt.html

Turtles Forever
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-569-june-4-2008-p-laird.html

Turtles Forever
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-570-august-20-2008-re.html

Turtles Forever (live-action scene)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-571-february-12-2009-re.html

Turtles Forever [B](last email exchange)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/blast-from-past-572-june-23-2009-re-hey.html

--Back to Season 1--

Series plans/Utrom Shredder
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-573-may-2-2002-re-new.html

Series plans/Utrom Shredder
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-574-may-3-2002-re-new.html

TMNT 101
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-575may-9-2002-re.html

Turtles/Lair design + Notes from the Underground
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-576-may-14-2002-re.html

logos/backgrounds/Things Change 1st draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-577-may-20-2002-re.html

Better Mousetrap
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-578-may-22-2002-re-102.html

Better Mousetrap, Splinter characterizaton
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-579-may-28-2002-re.html

Attack of the Mousers, Meet Casey Jones, 1st season arc
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-580-june-2-2002-re.html

Better Mousetrap, Meet Casey Jones, vehicles & BG
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-581-june-4-2002-re-fw.html

[oldmanwinters]

Nano, Darkness on the Edge of Town, Meet Casey Jones, Better Mousetrap, [turtle-lingo & vehicles, early character designs]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-582-june-10-2002-re.html

Darkness on the Edge of Town, Attack of the Mousers, Nano, [vehicle/character designs]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-583-june-14-2002.html

Nano, Things Change, Meet Casey Jones, [Splinter's design]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-584.html

[Model sheets], Way of Invisibility
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/blast-from-past-585-july-4-2002-re-fw.html

Way of Invisibility, "Cold Blooded," [mouser/lair designs]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-586-july-15-2002.html

Nano, Way of Invisibility, Fallen Angel, Garbageman, Cold Blooded
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-587-july-22-2002-re.html

[Character designs], Garbageman
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-588-august-1-2002-re-fw.html

Sword of Tengu notes, Things Change
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-589-august-8-2002-re.html

Nano, Garbageman, Shredder Strikes, [character designs]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-590.html

Guardians, Turtle Titan, Notes from the Underground
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-591.html

Notes from the Underground, Shredder Strikes
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-592-august-28-2002-re.html

Turtle Titan, Shredder Strikes, Notes from the Underground, The King, Shredder Strikes Back, Fallen Angel
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-593-september-3-2002-re.html

Main title, Kirby, Notes from the Underground, Tales of Leo, [Behind the Scenes footage]
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-594.html

Shredder Strikes Back, The King, Notes from the Underground, Monster Hunter, etc.
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-595-october-10-2002.html

Foot Mystics, The King, Unconvincing Turtle Titan, Shredder Strikes Back, Tales of Leo, Search for Splinter
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-596-october-23-2002-re.html

Search for Splinter, Monster Hunter, etc.:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-597-november-7-2002-re.html

pre-teenage turtles (designs), Meet Casey Jones (designs), Return to New York, etc.:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/blast-from-past-598-november-12-2002.html

Search for Splinter, Lone Raph and Cub, Monster Hunter, Nano's design, Return to New York
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/blast-from-past-599-november-18-2002-re.html

Return to New York, Lone Raph and Cub
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/blast-from-past-600-november-27-2002-re.html

Return to New York, Search for Splinter
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/blast-from-past-601-december-3-2002.html

[Utrom council designs], Search for Splinter
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/blast-from-past-602-december-10-2002-re.html

[TCRI building designs], Attack of the Mousers
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/blast-from-past-603-january-10-2003-re.html

Meet Casey Jones, Nano
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-604-february-11-200-re.html

Season 2, Turtles in Space, Usagi Yojimbo
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-605-february-21-2003.html

Turtles in Space, Fugitoid design
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-606.html

Turtles in Space, Fugitoid design
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-607-march-23-2003.html

Turtles in Space
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-608-april-1-2003-re.html

The Arena, Triceraton Wars
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-609-april-5-2003-re.html

Secret Origins
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/blast-from-past-610-april-11-2003.html

Secret Origins, Design of Ch'rell, April as a reporter? continuity with Dreamwave comic
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-611-april-22-2003-re.html

Stan Sakai/Usagi Yojimbo + Episodes 36 (Reflections) - 52 (Big Brawl)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-612-april-23-2003-hey.html

Kirby + Secret Origins, Turtles in Space, Reflections, Return of Nano, Return to the Underground
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-613-may-2-2003-re-show.html

Secret Origins, Trouble with Triceratons, Ultimate Ninja, Return of Nano
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-614-may-11-2003-re-fw.html

Sword of Tengu + The Big House, Return to the Underground, Reflections
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-615-may-26-2003.html

Secret Origins + Ch'rell design
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-616-may-27-2003-re.html

Return to the Underground, Ultimate Ninja, What a Croc
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-617.html

The King, Return of Nano
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-618-june-1-2003-king.html

Return of Nano, Ultimate Ninja
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-619-june-5-2003-re.html

Prime Leader Zanramon + City at War, Return to the Underground
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blast-from-past-620-june-8-2003-ep.html

[Redeemer]

This is the only input he had on the show? That is not as much as I thought.

[oldmanwinters]

Place holder post

[Ninjinister]

So they wanted Nano to originally have stayed with the Turtles? Yeah, I don't like that idea either.

[oldmanwinters]

This is the only input he had on the show? That is not as much as I thought.

I would imagine he was involved with original story pitches as well. Plus, he wrote most of the source material.:tgrin:

So they wanted Nano to originally have stayed with the Turtles? Yeah, I don't like that idea either.

Man, it would have been like having Serling as early as the second season!

Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, Mr. Laird! Thank you!

I went back and watched "The Ultimate Ninja" today since the email exchange suggests the original pitch was substantially different. Laird even complains about why the Ninja kidnapped April, evidently concerned it was getting too similar to the Old Toon!

[Vivi]

I love this stuff, thanks for posting. It's like watching thoughts in bloom. I found myself agreeing with Peter Laird's suggestions, but others would have been interesting to see (only because it be like seeing a new episode, though:cry:). Putting Usagi in the Battle Nexus = brilliant.

[Spacebabie]

This is quite the insight. Thank you for posting this.

[oldmanwinters]

Episode index has been updated with three more posts from Laird's blog! And, boy, is it a doozie! The banned episode, "Nightmares Recycled" unveiled (in fragments) at last!

Episode #110: "Nightmares Recycled" THE BANNED EPISODE!!!
(February 11, 2005)

Episodes #60-63
(January 13, 2004)

Episode #100: "Tale of Master Yoshi"
(November 17, 2004)

[ToTheNines]

Pete's... kind of a dick lol. I mean, the writers make some dumb spelling/grammar mistakes considering they write for a living, but the guy is really harsh haha

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if Pete was as involved with the FF and BTTS scripts.

With the way he's ripping apart the writers on these Seasons 1-4 episodes, I wonder why some of the dialogue or actions passed in FF/BTTS that he didn't allow back here.

[Cipher]

Pete's... kind of a dick lol. I mean, the writers make some dumb spelling/grammar mistakes considering they write for a living, but the guy is really harsh hahaThe guy's doing his job.

Just looked through the notes on "Tales of Master Yoshi." I'm actually really surprised how involved he was the scripts, and how many logical and subtle character nuances he told them to add. Where are these kinds of dialogue and pacing choices in his Volume 4 work? (I actually love the premises in Volume 4, but not Laird's actual scripting.)

[Luzmagica]

Its very interesting !Thanks for post it! :tgrin:

[Barkworm]

Wow, what an annoying asshole that guy can be.

[Anarchistguy]

While I find this VERY interesting and I understand completely that he wanted to protect his creation, did he have to be so condescending with the writers?

[Cipher]

While I find this VERY interesting and I understand completely that he wanted to protect his creation, did he have to be so condescending with the writers?In some of those cases, yes.

Writing's a tough gig. If you're going to cry when someone rips through your poorly written children's cartoon scripts, there are a dozen people behind you who won't.

He was polite with Lloyd Goldfine at least, because Lloyd was putting in all the effort he could to create the best product possible.

[Candy Kappa]

guess Laird still had issues from the OT, and wanted to keep things his way

[ZariusTwo]

Hey, at least Pete gave them honest and valid pointers, other head writers (like Russel T. Davies) would have rewritten all the scripts themselves with their own ideas and not touch the scripts of people they were friends with

Besides, anyone who ever pointlessly b*thced at Laird in the comic letters pages ought to know he takes things personally

[plastroncafe]

The guy's doing his job.

Just looked through the notes on "Tales of Master Yoshi." I'm actually really surprised how involved he was the scripts, and how many logical and subtle character nuances he told them to add. Where are these kinds of dialogue and pacing choices in his Volume 4 work? (I actually love the premises in Volume 4, but not Laird's actual scripting.)

I get the impression that Laird shines best when he's part of an ensemble, and not say...solo.

[Spacebabie]

While those snippets were most lilkely part of a rough draft, it was nice to get a peak into "Nightmares Recycled."

[Ninjinister]

While those snippets were most lilkely part of a rough draft, it was nice to get a peak into "Nightmares Recycled."

Except now it's gone.

EDIT: Never mind, I found it... the above link was just broken, is all.

[oldmanwinters]

Except now it's gone.

EDIT: Never mind, I found it... the above link was just broken, is all.

Thanks for the heads up! It should be fixed now. Must have been poor copy & pasting on my part.

[Cowabunga Carl]

It is cool to see where the writers where taking it but how we got more faithful adaptions and truer characters.

[Sabacooza]

After reading these, I've come to the conclusion that Laird is a complete douche. I mean I've know this for some time but his rude comments on these scripts make it official.

I can understand one being very strict, opinionated, and specific about ones property but there's a better way to go about pointing out mistakes and concerns than to be so insulting and rude.

Thank God this creep has nothing to do with TMNT anymore.

[Venom]

Stop posting and start coloring more Turtle art. :)

[Sabacooza]

Stop posting and start coloring more Turtle art.
Oh I am but unfortunately it isn't anything I can show at the moment. Andrew also mentioned Frank's TMNT Spawn pages on the forum which I'm working on to.

[Venom]

Awesome, dude! Can't wait to see more.

[agoaj]

I really hope he puts one up for Return to New York or Exodus.

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blast-from-past-298-more-notes-from.html

I'm sorry if this is old. (Probably is.) Is this the closest we ever got to reading a script about this episode?

[Turo602]

http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blast-from-past-298-more-notes-from.html

I'm sorry if this is old. (Probably is.) Is this the closest we ever got to reading a script about this episode?

Thanks for posting this. I always wanted to find out more about that episode. It was a good read.

[Andrew NDB]

It's difficult to disagree with much/any of what Laird was saying there. It sounded like a truly horrible episode.

[gobo]

I'm a little less peeved I'll never get the opportunity to see this ep now. That is some BAD writing. I'll finish reading sometime later... when I'm a lot more bored.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Warrior. :tthumbsu:

[Eiko]

Sounded like it was going to be a pretty silly episode.

[gobo]

Sounded like it was going to be a pretty silly episode.
Oddly enough, even sillier than the rest of that season. :lol:

[PAAATE]

Well, the only other episodes this guy wrote before FF (never saw FF) was the clip show Reflections in season 2 and Adventures in Turtle Sitting in season 4. I dunno, AiTS was probably him inspired, and Nightmares Recycled was him uninspired and unbelievably high.

[CyberCubed]

Aside from the ep being bad, the way PL talks is so sarcastic and insulting that its actually funny.

I wonder if PL reacted that same way to all the episode scripts he was shown?

[Sabacooza]

If anything, the way Peter responded was rude. So the script was horrible. I get that but he could've conducted himself in a more mature manner.

[oldmanwinters]

http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blast-from-past-298-more-notes-from.html

I'm sorry if this is old. (Probably is.) Is this the closest we ever got to reading a script about this episode?

Well, I guess this thread is a bit late to the party, since I started a catchall thread for all of Laird's 2k3 notes. But since it's been so long since he's posted anything it's easy to understand how people would forget.

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=30722

Perhaps a mod can merge the threads?

[Machias Banshee]

Here we go, threads merged... :)

[Prowler]

Regardless of Peter Laird being a douche or not some of the writers original ideas were bad. Also, when a comic/manga is adapted to a TV series, the writers tend to take liberties with the source material and bastardize it, no wonder most people prefer the original material. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe whether people find it rude or not so I agree with Peter in this case

[Nelson]

If anything, the way Peter responded was rude. So the script was horrible. I get that but he could've conducted himself in a more mature manner.

That's true, especially considering that Peter is not that good of a writer himself.

Plus many of the earlier TMNT comics had the most embarrassing typos...

[Venom]

you have to stand up for what you believe

Now THAT'S Turtle Power! :D


Plus many of the earlier TMNT comics had the most embarrassing typos...

That's because Kevin did a lot of the lettering in theh early books and has admitted to not being the best of spellers.

[LioConvoy]

Oh man...thank you so much for posting these!!

[oldmanwinters]

Not a true entry in the 2k3 development notes, but I figured I'd mention that Laird has posted his conceptual thoughts on the look of the Ultimate Ninja-Drako hybrid:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/blast-from-past-347-drako-designs.html

[oldmanwinters]

I've updated links in the original post to reflect Peter Laird's new "twain" blog format (HT to Archon Turtle (http://gogreenmachine.org/?p=4082#comments)for that word!)

Peter Laird's original blog now has a strict "NO TMNT" policy:
http://plairdblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/news-about-future-of-this-blog.html

All past and future TMNT items have been moved to:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/

[jaymq]

All past and future TMNT items have been moved to:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/

Good to know, thanks!

[BubblyShell22]

I really liked looking at these notes and am pleased that Peter had such a say in the development of the episodes. Yes, he did seem harsh with some things, but I can understand why. Good writers proofread their work before sending it off. It seems as though some of these writers just wrote stuff and never checked it over.

Great find.

[oldmanwinters]

More updates courtesy of Laird's TMNT blog!

Some interesting commentary on the production of "Junklantis," "April's Artifact," "Rogue in the House Pt.1&2," and "The Darkness Within!"

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/blast-from-past-369-more-development.html

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/blast-from-past-370-more-notes-from.html

*Index updated on first page*

[FlippytheMaster]

Interesting stuff. I always wondered what Mr. Laird thought about drastically changing Shredder's origin and now I can see that he thought it up! So that's pretty cool, less unsettling than I would have thought.

[ToTheNines]

I think it's pretty cool that Pete shaped this turtle-verse the way he did. Now it's Kevin's turn with the IDW comics :)

[oldmanwinters]

Hmm... I would have liked to have seen concept art for the proposed "vampiric April" and "monster Raph in mirror" ideas that Peter Laird ultimately thought was too cliche. But I'm guessing those ideas never really got any further than the scripting process. I do think Darkness Within was one of the series' most awesome episodes in its final form, so kudos to Peter for that if he had some influence!

I think the whole "Turtles experience nightmares induced by monster" bit could very successfully be tweaked to reveal more of our characters' personalities/dreams without the cliched "vampiric April" and "monster Raph in mirror", etc. What I suggest is that the monster does in fact ensnare them, but instead of nightmares, it reaches into their minds and creates scenarios based on what they desire -- attacking them at their weakest.

Although his alternative proposals didn't exactly make it into the episode, if I remember:
For example, Leo could dream of being a great warrior hero, lauded by the masses and set upon a throne, a Shogun. Mike could be seen with all of the snack foods and toys and STUFF that he could ever want in a giant mansion or estate (think Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch to the tenth power). Don's fantasy might be of having access to any kinds of technology or gadgets his heart desires. And so on.
Now, they could struggle and eventually free themselves in a manner like what is in the premise, but I was thinking that it might be even more fun and cooler to bring Splinter into the scenario, and have the twist be that HE can defeat this monster because, as a master of Zen, he desires NOTHING ... and it drives the greed monster crazy.

And looks like Peter's suggestion to leave out Angel didn't fly:
I also wonder about bringing Angel back in this story, which doesn't really seem to have much to do with her or her brother -- they're just convenient props to get the story rolling. To my mind, it might work better if it were either April or Casey or both of them who bring the Turtles into the fray.

[ToTheNines]

I'd LOVE to see the notes on "City at War"... I really want to know how much it bothered Pete to see his epic conclusion to Volume 1 totally shat upon.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, but those notes might not be available.

[Xav]

I'd LOVE to see the notes on "City at War"... I really want to know how much it bothered Pete to see his epic conclusion to Volume 1 totally shat upon. You can in the second link.

[FlippytheMaster]

I actually sort of like how he's playing the devil's advocate while commenting on this stuff. I know it might make him seem like a curmudgeonly old man but SOMEONE'S gotta point out the mistakes. The first rule of writing is that if, when you show somebody your work, the only things they say are good things, go find someone else. This helps you fix mistakes you make and improve your writing overall. So to all the people who are saying he sounds embittered: He's just being a good critic, it's WHY they got him to do that.

[ToTheNines]

You can in the second link.

Thanks man.

WHY WHY WHY WHY didn't they listen to Pete???? Ugh. Those notes make me HATE the city at war episodes even more. I'll probably never watch them again.

[oldmanwinters]

Laird shares his thoughts (and expresses his confusion) about Bishop's character history and motivation:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/blast-from-past-371-more-notes-from.html

It appears these ideas/suggestions from Laird ended up having a significant influence on Bishop's evolution.

[BubblyShell22]

That's awesome how Laird made Bishop cool. Thanks for sharing the link.

[oldmanwinters]

Notes on "Nobody's Fool," "The Lesson" (groan), "The Entity Below," and the final (yeah, right!) fate of the Shredder!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-372-more-notes-from.html
(February 1, 2004)

Notes on "Mission of Gravity":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-373-more-notes-from.html
(February 1, 2004)

Index on first post update!

Sounds like "The Lesson" (Working Title: "Sensei") went through quite a bit of reworking. And yet it's still one of the more problematic episodes for the series' continuity!

[Leonardo Mystic]

I love these types of entries because it shows just how much Peter was involved in the creative process. He's saved countless episodes it sounds like being really retarded. I mean, seriously. Some of the things the 4Kids' writers came up with were crap, like they really didn't even think it through.

[oldmanwinters]

I love these types of entries because it shows just how much Peter was involved in the creative process. He's saved countless episodes it sounds like being really retarded. I mean, seriously. Some of the things the 4Kids' writers came up with were crap, like they really didn't even think it through.

Yeah, the guy really poured his heart and soul into the 4Kids toon and the CGI film as well as trying to carry one comic book series and oversee another. It's no wonder the guy got burnt out on turtles!

[lethrhd]

so is peter laird not going to have any say in the new viacom tmnt? or is he involved in some level.

[oldmanwinters]

Sooooo many updates in the past few weeks (and with pictures!)...

Hopefully I can keep them all straight:

"New Blood" and references to "Secret Origins Part 3"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-374-more-notes-from.html
(February 2, 2004)
[Pete makes a suggestion to introduce "Vernon" into the show!!!]
[Laird was monitoring positive feedback on Secret Origins III on the 'Drome Forums!]
[If I am keeping my episode numbers straight, Pete was apparently 100% pleased with the script for "Nobody's Fool"]

"The Lesson," "The Darkness Within," "The Entity Below"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-375-feb-3-2004-more.html
(February 3, 2004)
[Pete says he's "not real crazy about the implied April/Don hookup" in the original draft for "Darkness Within"]

The proposed "TMNT: Overload" series
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/tmnt-overload.html
(June 28, 2007)

"The Lesson"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-376-more-notes-from.html
(February 9, 2004)
[It's amazing that given all the thought and effort put into this episode from both Pete and Lloyd, it's STILL one of my least favorite episodes of the series!]

"The Entity Below" and "Mission of Gravity"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-377-more-notes-from.html
(February 13, 2004)

"The Lesson" (Outline)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/blast-from-past-378-feb-16-2004.html
(February 16, 2004)
[The proposed setup actually sounds more interesting than what we got in the final product]

"The Darkness Within", second draft
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-383-feb-23-2004.html
(February 23, 2004)

"Time Travails"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-384-mar-6-2004-re.html
(March 6, 2004)

"Reality Check"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-385-mar-9-2004-ep-71.html
(March 9, 2004)

*Index on first post updated*

[The Big Bad]

Yet another update: this time, the first draft for "Same as it Never Was", (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-386-mar-22-2004-re-tmnt.html) which sounds a lot different from what we eventually got.

All these updates have really made it clear to me how involved in the series Laird really was, and how deep the working relationship between he and 4Kids/Lloyd Goldfine was. I'm really glad they allowed him to wield as much influence as they did, and that they were willing to listen. It also makes me think that part of the problem with Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers is that he was no longer as involved, for whatever reason--we haven't seen any correspondence regarding specific episodes from seasons six or seven, have we?

ETA: Shameless plug: I wrote a little bit about Laird's involvement on the show on my blog (http://nymonsters.wordpress.com/).

[CyberCubed]

Did you guys read the latest entry? This one is HILARIOUS, Peter Laird went ballistic on the 4kids writers. LOL:


Mar. 30, 2004: Re: TMNT - 76 premise

From: Peter Laird
To: Lloyd Goldfine

Lloyd,

Groan.

Here are my notes on the Ep. 76 premise.

1.) To start off with, I absolutely f...ing hate this one. I'm not even sure if I should waste my time commenting on it... but I suppose I should. I'll try to only hit the high points (or is that "low points"?).

2.) Re: the following:

"We open at the turtles’ lair, deep underground, where all are abed and sleeping. All seems calm and peaceful until … <boom>, there’s a huge explosion as part of the wall explodes inward.

Laser sights beam around the room as a squad of Bishop’s commandos enter and secure the center room through much fire and explosions. "

I have said many times that the only way I will accept the discovery and invasion of the Turtles' lair as a part of a story is if that story is GREAT and there is a GREAT reason for the reveal of the Turtles' secret home. This story doesn't even come close.

3.) Re: the following:

"The turtles rise to the challenge to face him, but Bishop isn’t interested in them. "Amphibian DNA is useful, but … it’s not even close to human." He’s come for different quarry today.

Bishop: "Family Muridae, genus Rattus." He smiles at Splinter, "Namely, you!""

For (hopefully) the last time...

... TURTLES ARE NOT AMPHIBIANS!!! THEY ARE REPTILES!
REPTILES!!
REPTILES!!!
Jesus freakin' Christ...

4.) Re: the following:

"Well, the boys aren’t going to let them take Master Splinter without a fight (nor is Master Splinter going to go without a fight). So, there’s a fight.

Unfortunately, Bishop really lets himself go on the turtles and beats the crud out of them."

Great to know that all Bishop had to do was "let himself go" and he could -- single-handedly -- "beat the crud" out of all four Turtles. At the same time. Together. I sure hope he remembers to do that later in the episode when they fight again.


5.) Re: the following:

"Bishop scoffs at the groaning turtles. He’s not even going to bother to finish them off he thinks so little of them. "

Could this BE any sillier? At the very LEAST he would kill them to keep them from coming after him... after all, he SHOULD have learned from their previous encounters that they are resilient and resourceful. But no, for the sake of a RIDICULOUS "macho pose" moment, we'll have Bishop act like a COMPLETE FOOL.

6.) Re: the following:

"Bishop also has something else he’s working on. An ergonomic portable gene therapy processor that one can wear (think Bane and his "juice") as a backpack or shoulder pack.

With this, Bishop can control, regulate his own genetic enhancements on the spot … for whatever is called for: i.e. extra strength, silence/stealth, seeing in the dark."

"An ergonomic portable gene therapy processor"... the mind boggles. So basically this is Bishop's own Fred Wolf-style "mutagen" -- something he can carry around with him and squirt onto himself so he can have new powers according to what the script demands? It's almost like that old comic book "Dial H For Hero"! (Or would that be "Dial V For Villain"?) Truly, the mind boggles. (Not to mention that if he already has something that has this incredible power, what the bleeding HELL does he need Splinter for???!!!)

7.) Re: the following:

"Meanwhile, the turtles, LeatherHead and Honeycutt are barreling down the subway tunnels on target and soon …

The turtles, LeatherHead and Honeycutt burst (literally) into Bishop’s base where they’re holding Splinter.

Bishop is surprised to see them. And, he’s even more surprised to see his train car. "

And he's not the only one! What an amazing subway car this is -- somehow able to maneuver all over the place, switching tracks, etc. Incredible!
And the Turtles and Leatherhead smashing Bishop's subway car through the wall of his secret base lab -- brilliant! Why use stealth? Or intelligence? Or strategy? Let's just slam into a wall and hope we don't DIE so we can MAYBE find Bishop and fight him? (And hope he doesn't remember to "let himself go"!)

8.) Re: the following:

"The turtles face Bishop. He uses his new portable gene therapy device and really starts to kick their butts … "

Can anyone read that second line and not break out laughing?

9.) Re: the following:

"… and the turtles save Master Splinter. They carry him to the train car and roll out of there just as the whole place overloads and explodes."

Hmmm... was that the same train car that was SMASHED into/through the wall of Bishop's secret HQ? Durable sucker, that.

10.) My advice on this premise? Burn every copy.

-- Pete

:lol:

[Jester]

Wow...that episode seems soooo bad.

[oldmanwinters]

Wow...that episode seems soooo bad.

It's certainly a good thing Laird intervened. I think "Bishop's Gambit" became one of the most interesting episodes of Season 3, and the plot ended up sparking a lot of other stuff revisited later in the series.

[Jester]

Sounds like Good Genes would have been this episode...am I right?

[oldmanwinters]

Sounds like Good Genes would have been this episode...am I right?

Nah, Laird has been going through his notes on Season 3 almost chronologically. "Episode 76" matches up with "Bishop's Gambit," where Bishop captured Splinter.

[Drako-Cat]

Not a true entry in the 2k3 development notes, but I figured I'd mention that Laird has posted his conceptual thoughts on the look of the Ultimate Ninja-Drako hybrid:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/blast-from-past-347-drako-designs.html

Gosh, I wish the other concept like this was uploaded! the only way I know of getting them is playing TMNT 2 Battle Nexus, extracting the art from the data of the game might work..

Anyways, thanks for linking these! ^^

[oldmanwinters]

April 3, 2004: Peter Laird softens up after Goldfine calls him out!
(But they both still hate most of the Fred Wolf series!)


(Note: The following email is one I wrote to Lloyd after he responded to my less-than-kind, shall we say, comments about the premise for episode 76 of the 4Kids TMNT show. Lloyd gently took me to task for my comparison of that premise to some of the more objectionable stuff from the first TMNT animated series. He didn't necessarily disagree with me, for the most part, but felt that I could have toned down my vitriol out of regard for the people at 4kids who were all working hard to make the deadlines required to keep the series on the air.


While I felt then -- and still feel now -- completely justified in the comments I'd made, and you can see some of that reflected in my explanation in this email about WHY I expressed myself in this fashion, I did take Lloyd's comments to heart and from that point on I gave some more thought to how I expressed my displeasure with things that aggravated me. I didn't refrain from pointing out when something seemed bad, but I did it in a slightly more thoughtful way.


Or at least I think I did. -- PL 08-18-11)

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-290-april-3-2004-re.html

EDIT:
What the heck?
I wouldn't accept Chuck Patton wanting to put points on the backs of the Turtles' heads, and I wouldn't accept some writer's idea to have a Turtle get his shell pushed in and then stick his thumb in his mouth and blow on it and thus expand his shell again, and so on

[Jester]

April 3, 2004: Peter Laird softens up after Goldfine calls him out!
(But they both still hate most of the Fred Wolf series!)

Yeah, it only made the Turtles a house hold name. I can understand his total hatred for that show...wait?

[oldmanwinters]

Yeah, it only made the Turtles a house hold name. I can understand his total hatred for that show...wait?

I wanna have Fred Wolf/David Wise & Lloyd Goldfine/Peter Laird on Celebrity Death Match. It would be epic.

[Jester]

Indeed it would. Say what he will about the FW series, it didn't have a back log of comic books to draw story inspiration from. The FW writers (most noticeably David Wise) had to come up with mostly unique stories, and they had to be both action packed and funny. The 4Kids series was a lot like many other animated action cartoons, the humor is kinda an after thought.

[Xav]

so is peter laird not going to have any say in the new viacom tmnt? or is he involved in some level. No Peter sold all the rights to Viacom and made it clear he wants nothing to do with the turtles for a long time.

[CyberCubed]

The weird thing of it all is I don't think PL actually knows what the original cartoon was actually like anymore.

Yes, it was always silly and filled with ridiculous things, but it never got too retarded and the characters were all well characterized. The plots fit that particular universe, and the writers had a ball with it.

[oldmanwinters]

The weird thing of it all is I don't think PL actually knows what the original cartoon was actually like anymore.

Yes, it was always silly and filled with ridiculous things, but it never got too retarded and the characters were all well characterized. The plots fit that particular universe, and the writers had a ball with it.

Well, except for maybe one or two episodes.:D

Like this one (http://oldmanwinters.deviantart.com/art/Michelangelo-s-Birthday-Color-253697256).

[CyberCubed]

Well, except for maybe one or two episodes.:D

Like this one (http://oldmanwinters.deviantart.com/art/Michelangelo-s-Birthday-Color-253697256).

LOL, even Donatello thought the idea of moth balls was ridiculous.

[Xav]

Yeah, it only made the Turtles a house hold name. I can understand his total hatred for that show...wait? Well the writers on that show didn't really listen to him and I can understand how that could upset him. Even so he and Kevin still had to give approval on everything on the show.

[Jester]

Rewatching Back to the Sewer makes me wonder: HOW DID INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SERLING GET PAST LAIRD'S POISON PEN?!
I mean seriously....this episode is just plain bad...I mean bad Fred Wolf episode bad....

[TheSkeletonMan939]

The only reason I watched the rest of BttS was to say that I'd seen every episode. But yeah, most of them were pretty bad. I'd like to see his thoughts for that episode and Super Power Struggle.

[Jester]

The only reason I watched the rest of BttS was to say that I'd seen every episode. But yeah, most of them were pretty bad. I'd like to see his thoughts for that episode and Super Power Struggle.
Super Power Struggle was sooo painful. Not only did it have Mikey as Turtle Titan which got progressively more annoying, but it threw Raph in the mix and made him just as big an idiot as Mikey had become.

I'd also like to see Laird's notes on SuperQuest. The only thing I liked about that episode was Jester Raph (even used it as an avatar for a while).

EDIT: Still watching Incredible Shrinking Serling...did the toy shop owner seriously just break the 4th wall?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I thought it was kinda funny that Hun was that helpful guy in SuperQuest.

What part in Shrinking Serling are you at? I want to see if the old man broke the 4th wall or not myself.

[Jester]

What part in Shrinking Serling are you at? I want to see if the old man broke the 4th wall or not myself.
When Splinter comes to the rescue, he say something along the lines of "A giant rat...this city really does attract all kinds." and I'd swear he looks dead on the camera.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

You're RIGHT! This makes me hate BttS even more!

[Jester]

You're RIGHT! This makes me hate BttS even more!
The irony is that's some of my favorite stuff in the Fred Wolf series...but in that show it worked!

[Jester]

I'm now watching my favorite episode of the 4Kids series Super Power Struggle. Man, even Raphael vs the Volcano isn't this bad... How did Laird not rip this episode a new orifice. Then again, maybe he did...we ain't there yet in his blog.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I'm now watching my favorite episode of the 4Kids series Super Power Struggle. Man, even Raphael vs the Volcano isn't this bad... How did Laird not rip this episode a new orifice. Then again, maybe he did...we ain't there yet in his blog.

Maybe he was just so annoyed with 4Kids for making the show so stupid he just started scanning the scripts for completely idiotic ideas that could have been written by a drunk monkey.

[CyberCubed]

The way I see it, BTTS had 3 bad episodes, the 3 obvious fillers you guys mentioned, but I liked the other eps.

[Jester]

The way I see it, BTTS had 3 bad episodes, the 3 obvious fillers you guys mentioned, but I liked the other eps.
I agree. Though the stories were not quite up to par for the previous seasons, the only painful ones were the 3 fillers.

[TobTurn]

Awesome! We finally know who would win in a battle between Agent Bishop and The Shredder... Shredder!

[oldmanwinters]

Here's a really interesting exchange on the character designs for "Same As It Never Was" and "Reality Check." I wish Laird had posted pictures!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/blast-from-past-297-re-april-15-2004-72.html

[The Big Bad]

Rewatching Back to the Sewer makes me wonder: HOW DID INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SERLING GET PAST LAIRD'S POISON PEN?!
I mean seriously....this episode is just plain bad...I mean bad Fred Wolf episode bad....

Like I said...the various notes strongly suggest that a reason why the latter two seasons were such a step down from its predecessors was because Laird was no longer supervising every episode. Given how burnt out he seemed to have gotten, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that had been the case.

[oldmanwinters]

Here's a great image of the Hun/Baxter hybrid from "Same As It Never Was" that Laird shared! You can see the development process!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vWlBlZcPDnw/TlUas8bltFI/AAAAAAAADY0/uSyx82tK1n0/s1600/hun+in+wheelchair.jpg

Amazing that this was approved by the censors but the Siamese Twins bit in "Nightmares Recycled" got the whole episode axed.

[Jester]

Wasn't there a massive censor shift after this season? I mean they approved Insane in the Membrane then...didn't.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Wasn't there a massive censor shift after this season? I mean they approved Insane in the Membrane then...didn't.

I think I remember reading somewhere there was a change of hands and the old people who had approved it were no longer working. Thus, the episode had to be reshown again to the board to be approved, but the new people said 'no way' because they deemed it too graphic for children.

I guess they thought Stockman was Freddy or something. :trolleye:

Edit: Though on second thought, perhaps it was Baxter's mother dying in a flashback they didn't want to show.

[oldmanwinters]

At long last... notes on "Exodus!"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-298-april-21-2004-re.html

That was one of the high water marks for the series in my mind.

[Jester]

I know this may come off as "nit picky" but I wish he'd put episode titles on these.

[The Big Bad]

I think I remember reading somewhere there was a change of hands and the old people who had approved it were no longer working. Thus, the episode had to be reshown again to the board to be approved, but the new people said 'no way' because they deemed it too graphic for children.

I guess they thought Stockman was Freddy or something. :trolleye:

Edit: Though on second thought, perhaps it was Baxter's mother dying in a flashback they didn't want to show.

I'd think it's the episode as a whole that was the issue. It's a villain-focused take on Flowers for Algernon featuring graphic scenes of body parts melting away, and a conflict that is solved not because of the heroes, but because the villains mind deteriorated to the point where he started believing that the person he kidnapped was his long dead mother. Then he sinks into the water and basically dies, in a way that for him is actually sort of a happy ending--and then gets cheated out of that, as well. Nobody learns anything, and nobody is better off for the events of the episode--it's just a person's slide into madness after a brief moment of happiness. Is there any other show--and I mean live-action stuff too--which would have an episode like that?

[CyberCubed]

Wow, in his new blog PL is the reason why Hun became disgusted by the fact that Shredder was an alien.

The 4kids writers wanted Hun to remain loyal to Shredder even after he found out he was an Utrom! Thank goodness Peter Laird changed this, it really made Hun's character make much more sense!

[oldmanwinters]

I know this may come off as "nit picky" but I wish he'd put episode titles on these.

That's why I've created the index on the first post (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=771465&postcount=1) that provides titles for easy fan reference!

[CyberCubed]

In a reply someone said they hated "Shredder's Mom" ep from the OT.

Wow, I thought most loved that episode.

[BubblyShell22]

I really like these development notes that I've seen, especially for Exodus. I think it's nice of Pete to allow the fans to view how the series evolved with each episode.

[CyberCubed]

Heh, look at what PL suggested:

-- I had this vision of Hun as the Shredder -- not sure why, but maybe it was the thought of how imposing and deadly Hun would appear in a suit of Shredder armor made to his scale. And I also had a vision of Karai as thee Shredder, too, and the two of them mixing it up -- "Battle of the Shredders!"

I guess they never went with the Hun as Shredder idea. They did put Karai in the Shredder armor though. :p

[oldmanwinters]

New today:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-300-re-may-11-2004-tmnt.html

It's a Season 4 overview!:tsmile:

Peter Laird offers his suggestions about "getting more mutants into the mix."
*gasp*:tsurpris:

And...
Laird suggests that they might actually make Hun into a mutant. Foreshadowing of things to come!

EDIT:
Heh, look at what PL suggested:

-- I had this vision of Hun as the Shredder -- not sure why, but maybe it was the thought of how imposing and deadly Hun would appear in a suit of Shredder armor made to his scale. And I also had a vision of Karai as thee Shredder, too, and the two of them mixing it up -- "Battle of the Shredders!"

I guess they never went with the Hun as Shredder idea. They did put Karai in the Shredder armor though. :p

Sorry, CC, didn't realize you were referencing today's post. That would have been a cool idea to make Hun the Shredder.

[BubblyShell22]

Some of those ideas sounded good while others didn't sound that great. I wouldn't have been happy with the whole crossovers idea with other universes as that would've been overkill.

[CyberCubed]

"MICHELANGELO
We don’t stand a chance without our weapons.
DONATELLO
We didn’t do all that great WITH them.
RAPHAEL
Well boys… Then I guess we go down fighting!"

What kind of weenie, defeatist crap is this?! They should be ashamed of themselves -- some ninjas they are!


LOL! :lol:

PL is hilarious.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, he is pretty hilarious. And I agree with him there.

[oldmanwinters]

Quite a few updates over the last few weeks regarding Laird's exchange with Lloyd over getting the "Exodus" episodes. They really spent a lot of time trying to get the Season 3 finale just right.

Exodus I (3rd Draft) & Exodus II (1st Draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-301-re-ep-77-exodus.html
May 14, 2004

Exodus I (3rd Draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-302-may-15-2004-re-ep.html
May 15, 2004

Exodus I (3rd Draft)
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-303-may-17-2004-re-ep.html
May 17, 2004

Season 4
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-304-may-17-2004-re.html
May 17, 2004

On the feasibility of Shredder's spaceship launch in "Exodus":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-305.html
May 19, 2004

[CyberCubed]

It's funny how 4kids did whatever Laird wanted. He got all the changes and they had to give up their ideas for whatever he wanted.

Really makes you wonder than why some of the worse parts of FF and BTTS happened.

[ToTheNines]

It's funny how 4kids did whatever Laird wanted. He got all the changes and they had to give up their ideas for whatever he wanted.

Really makes you wonder than why some of the worse parts of FF and BTTS happened.

More like Lloyd, who was the showrunner, did whatever Laird wanted. And who can blame him? I certainly would have listened to him as much as possible if I were making the show.

[The Big Bad]

I actually disagree with that analysis: so far I've seen that a fair amount of Laird's suggestions never make it to the screen, or are altered in such a way that they can't be fully credited to him. Overall, were it not for Laird's occasional lack of tact, I think their relationship is almost a perfect example of an ideal partnership: they each take the others ideas and use them to improve the overall work. The show would probably be a lot worse if it weren't for Laird's involvement, but likewise, I feel a show where every one of Laird's suggestions were followed would have been a poorer one as well. Take away either of them, and the show doesn't work.

[CyberCubed]

The idea of Splinter training Hun was kinda crazy, glad it was only a passing thought and not something ever seriously considered.

[CyberCubed]

LOL, 4kids wanted to name one of the aliens, "Krang" in "The People's choice" ep from Season 4:

"Moriah berates her crew of motley monstrous aliens (“freaked out Herculoids”) for screwing up a simple ambush. She particularly doesn’t like it when her general (lizard-bird man), Krang, points out that she was the one who fired on Jhanna’s transport before they were in range. "

Wow, that would have been weird.

[BubblyShell22]

It would have been weird, but it would have been a great homage to the OT.

I liked the ideas Lloyd had about Leo and also Laird's idea of him finding his own sensei. However, I'm glad they went with the idea of Splinter getting hurt and deciding that Leo needed to seek the Ancient One. I'd really like to see more notes about the eps "Samurai Tourist" and "The Ancient One."

[The Big Bad]

Okay, so we've gotten to "Dragon's Brew", and I am totally sad that Hun's hat didn't make it to the final design. Hun with a hat would have been the awesomest thing ever.

[oldmanwinters]

Okay, so we've gotten to "Dragon's Brew", and I am totally sad that Hun's hat didn't make it to the final design. Hun with a hat would have been the awesomest thing ever.

It was a pretty neat design!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VbT7G-es5-o/TnX4kOtafnI/AAAAAAAADbQ/grCgJ9T8bAQ/s1600/MasterHunwcoatandhat.jpg

Also, I'm curious as to what the original April/Casey sub-plot was (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-309-june-22-200-re.html) in the "The People's Choice." It's been so long since I've seen that episode, I can't remember if it made it into the final cut or not.
EDIT: Oh, ok I think I remember now:
6.) The Casey/April stuff is fine up until the "we should get hitched" bit. It's not appropriate, and it's not cute, and it's not funny. The resulting tiff between Casey and April is REALLY dopey and sophomoric... and THROWING PLATES? What is this -- "Dagwood and Blondie"?
I really don't think we need yet another "Casey tries to express his feelings to April/April misinterprets Casey's fumbling attempts/fight ensues" thing. I'm not saying this is the best route, but here is an alternative suggestion: What if April also goes to Splinter for help, much as Casey does? And what if he gives her the same advice he gave Casey, and they BOTH end up bringing -- or trying to bring -- the other breakfast in bed. Or maybe he gives her some other advice which ends up comedically conflicting with his advice to Casey (not sure what that would be right now). But I think instead of resorting to this TRULY tired fight scenario, it would be better if they come to realize through each other's actions how they feel about each other.
Again, I'm not sure exactly how it would work out, but I think something along the lines of that old story (by O. Henry, I think) "The Gift of the Magi" might be cool. Remember that story?
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-307-may-31-2004-re-tmnt.html

[Donnie]

I love reading Laird's notes. He is very intelligent, and it's great to see that logic never leaves the scene!

[Jester]

Actually I think Laird comes off as nit-picky and tactless.

[CyberCubed]

I've learned that the 4kids writers were awful. PL saved this show.

The scene of Hun being shocked that Shredder was an Utrom was one of my favorite scenes, and 4kids wanted Hun to stay loyal even after finding out?

[Jester]

I'll admit, that was one of the choices that worked. But Laird also floated the idea that the Turtles would no longer be Splinter's students opening the door for new students...including Hun. WTH!?

[oldmanwinters]

Regarding Laird's skewering of the writers. It's a tough call. Clearly the writers worked hard on their scripts/screenplay... they just didn't do a very good job thinking things through. Very little of the physical staging makes sense... characters often do things against type, and many action scenes are far too often resolved by sentences like "Bishop goes all out."

Laird, a guy who always puts some thought into his work, has shown the greatest tact when critiquing things he doesn't agree with and/or like. While all his complaints tend to be valid, the manner of the delivery is just about always over the top.

It's easy to see why he needed to get away from the franchise by the time 2009 came around.

Still, kudos to him for having the guts to post these email on line, even when it doesn't present himself in the best light. It's a nice bit of transparency.

I'll admit, that was one of the choices that worked. But Laird also floated the idea that the Turtles would no longer be Splinter's students opening the door for new students...including Hun. WTH!?

Well, he described it as a "vision." :lol:

One of the "big issue" things that this discussion raises is -- how long is Splinter going to be the Turtles' teacher? Are they going to be perpetual students, or do they get to "graduate"? And if they did "graduate", would Splinter retire... or would he take on NEW students? I know this sounds crazy, but as I was typing that I had this vision of Spinter teaching HUN! Can you imagine?!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-304-may-17-2004-re.html

[oldmanwinters]

New today...

Rat King!!!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-310-june-25-200-re.html

[CyberCubed]

It's such a shame Rat King is so underused in this show. He really deserved a second full episode.

How odd that the old toon gives Rat King like 10 episodes and this series only one.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I wanted to see Rat King more, too. He was someone who had a lot of promise.

[VaughnMichael]

It's almost like Peter never watched the old toon with comments about the flinging bricks and stuff.
Also he talks about Mikey being tied down by the ratking and mentions the slayers past on the table.
The way he talks is like he never even saw tales volume 1 # 4.

[CyberCubed]

LOL, PL called Krang an, "Utrom wanna-be" in his newest note:

While this might have been an appropriate joke about that Utrom-wannabe "Krang" from the old TV show, it seems kind of weird in the current context, where the Utroms DO have bodies -- they're just not humanoid bodies. And while it is a minor point, I really don't want to give the rabid old show fans ANY encouragement to say "See! See! The Utroms ARE disembodied brains, just like Krang!"

LMAO.

[Jester]

More reason for me to really start wondering if my "well he is the co-creator of the series." respect for Peter Laird is misplaced. He seems like a real jerk.

[CyberCubed]

More reason for me to really start wondering if my "well he is the co-creator of the series." respect for Peter Laird is misplaced. He seems like a real jerk.

Well had next to nothing to do with the old show, so it has nothing to do with him.

[Toby Barrett]

Doesn't mean he has to act that way however. He comes off as a bitter old grouch. =\

[Jester]

Exactly. The Fred Wolf series, like it or not, brought a lot of fans to the franchise. Fans who would eventually buy and read Mirage comic books, and watch the new, obviously more superior series. [/sarcasm]

[CyberCubed]

I think its because he believes most of the big old-cartoon fans never read the comics, and just view the franchise as that.

In a way its true, most casual TMNT fans never read the Mirage comics. Most of them never watched the 4kids cartoon either.

I think those of us who DID stick with the franchise, get into the comics and watch the 4kids show are a minority.

[Jester]

Yes, but did most casual fans really watch the 4Kids series (which you said...sorry.) or go so far as to write on Laird's blog that "Shredder is Krang?" I'm sure most "casual" fans of the Turtles don't even know the name Peter Laird. I ought to try that. Stop a person on the street with a TMNT shirt and hold up a picture of Kevin or Peter and ask, "Do you recognize these men?" and see how many right answers I get.

Peter Laird isn't calling out "casual fans" he's calling out fans who's Turtles of preference happen to be the Fred Wolf series Turtles, and that's a very douchie thing to do.

[Galactus]

Yes, but did most casual fans really watch the 4Kids series (which you said...sorry.) or go so far as to write on Laird's blog that "Shredder is Krang?" I'm sure most "casual" fans of the Turtles don't even know the name Peter Laird. I ought to try that. Stop a person on the street with a TMNT shirt and hold up a picture of Kevin or Peter and ask, "Do you recognize these men?" and see how many right answers I get.

The comics letters pages even up to volume 4 would occasionaly have letters along the lines of ..."where's Shredder and Krang? You should bring them back" and "why don't the turtles eat pizza and fight Bebop and Rocksteady anymore".

Not to mention the likes of "I watched the new show and you've turned Shredder into Krang" and the likes of "I was raised by the old show and love it but the new show sucks and you're raping my childhood" and "you're ruining the franchise" etc

Those sentiments are out there and Laird is aware of it and clearly doesn't appreciate it. Hell comments section pf his original blog section had people like Armaggon who wished him ill because of it.


Peter Laird isn't calling out "casual fans" he's calling out fans who's Turtles of preference happen to be the Fred Wolf series Turtles, and that's a very douchie thing to do.

It's quite clear the Fred Wolf show isn't his thing at all so I would argue he's doing fans of the show a service with the occasional homages. Hell the guy even recomemnded a cameo of Vernon Fenwick in the 2k3 show just because he thought old toon fans would get a kick out of it.

Beyond that he just didn't want his show to be crap, is that so bad?

[Xav]

Well had next to nothing to do with the old show, so it has nothing to do with him. How can you say that though? He helped create the main characters. Also he and Kevin still had to approve ever single script for the show.

[oldmanwinters]

Notes on "I, Monster" and "Grudge Match" are now up. These were two of my favorite eps from Season 4, mostly on account of the dramatic staging of the action and fight scenes. Animation was really sharp at points in Season 4.

I, Monster
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-313-july-6-2004-re-tmnt.html

Grudge Match
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/blast-from-past-314-july-11-2004-first.html

[CyberCubed]

These are getting a bit repetitive to read, because all they are is just Peter Laird telling the 4kids writers that they're stupid and that their scripts suck.

Its actually kinda amusing.

[Jester]

nDKDBd22lNM
Peter?

[Jester]

Re: The following:
3.) Re: the following:

"MICHELANGELO
But then, none of you is Michelangelo…
(“Kung Fu” overtones)
“He who moves like the shadow.”"

As I think it is a great recurring gag to have Mikey tout his BattleNexus championship whenever possible, perhaps it would be fun to add it here, as follows:
MICHELANGELO
But then, none of you is Michelangelo… BattleNexus Champion! And...
(“Kung Fu” overtones)
“He who moves like the shadow.”"

IT WAS HIM!!! It was Laird who made Mikey a complete joke after winning the Battle Nexus. Thanks a lot, Pete.

[oldmanwinters]

Re: The following:


IT WAS HIM!!! It was Laird who made Mikey a complete joke after winning the Battle Nexus. Thanks a lot, Pete.

Imma gonna defend Peter on this point.

The Battle Nexus taunting was something that was always intended to be portrayed as annoying and it was something that got on the rest of the turtles nerves. Mikey had a nice moment of maturity in Grudge Match, so if his ego had been corrected right there, we might have been out of the woods for the next 3 seasons. Unfortunately, they took Mikey's immaturity over being an champion and then expanded it to every aspect of his personality to the point where Mikey became a self-absorbed, insensitive twerp by the Fast Forward and BttS seasons. However, I think the Battle Nexus taunting was entirely consistent with his personality as it had been established up to that point.

[Jester]

hspNaoxzNbs


Just playin' Winters. If he had matured after the whole Grunge Match episode, he'd have been fine. Sadly the idiot 4Kids writers beat the joke to death worse than me and gobo....wait, wha?

[oldmanwinters]

hspNaoxzNbs

That's one of my all-time favorite sound bites!

So if anything, we can blame Peter Laird for giving the writers the horse with which they beat to death. It will be interesting to see how much involvement Laird had beyond the fifth season. Perhaps once he was out of the way, he wasn't there to stop them for destroying Mikey's personality.

[CyberCubed]

I really wish PL would skip ahead to the Fast Forward episodes. I am REALLY interested to see how they came up with the concepts for some of the new characters and story ideas.

Some of the stuff was really stupid, and I'm surprised PL didn't make them change it like we see in this Seasons 3 and 4 scripts.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I'd like to see that, too, but we'll have to wait and see if he made any comments regarding those eps.

[oldmanwinters]

Looks like Lloyd Goldfine made a successive pitch to get us a second "Nobody" episode!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-317-august-2-2004-re-fw.html

Also, some commentary on how to circumvent the BS&P standards!

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Looks like Lloyd Goldfine made a successive pitch to get us a second "Nobody" episode!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-317-august-2-2004-re-fw.html

Also, some commentary on how to circumvent the BS&P standards!

What does BS&P stand for?

[BubblyShell22]

BS&P stands for Broadcast Standards and Practices.

[The Big Bad]

While BS&P restrictions on guns annoy me as much as they apparently annoy Laird, I'm not sure I understand his point here. Part of the point of this and the previous Nobody episode is that laser weapons are slowly becoming mainstream among criminals (which makes a certain amount of sense, given things like power-settings and the lack of incriminating rifling marks). Once that happens, I'm not sure how using laser weapons is any harder to use or more technical than using good ol' projectile weaponry.

On a related note, I'm a bit surprised at Goldfine's assertion that the weapons used by H.A.T.E. in that episode were meant to be laser weapons; it sure didn't seem that way in the episode itself. Similarly, these back-and-forths give the impression that B&SP rules regarding firearms were more stringent than they appeared to be, and that the show wasn't allowed to use "real" guns at all. It doesn't quite jive with what was presented on the show, since by this point we'd had at least one wild-west shootout with real revolvers (albeit one that was fictional within the universe, and was storyboarded to leave the actual moment where the weapons fired off-screen) and guns that, while not particularly realistic-looking, were ambiguous enough to allow the audience to believe what they wanted regarding them. Likewise, there's the "Mission of Gravity" script draft which explicitly references machine bullets being ineffective against Chaplin's Mousers; while the episode itself has the guns' muzzle flash be light purple (instead of the traditional yellow/orange), suggesting some BS&P interference, the fact that it was included at all suggests that the rules weren't as simple as "no real guns" ever. It's interesting.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

If I recall correctly, guns were used in "The Golden Puck", and Bishop's arm-turret thingy in "Aliens Among Us" shot what seemed like bullets.

[oldmanwinters]

Early concept art for The Ancient One:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-318-august-3-2004.html

I kinda like that design best, it makes him look less like a midget sumo wrestler.

[The Big Bad]

Early concept art for The Ancient One:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-318-august-3-2004.html

I kinda like that design best, it makes him look less like a midget sumo wrestler.

Not quite: that's the design used for the flashback segment of "Tale of Master Yoshi".

I reeeeeally hope that updates for "Samurai Tourist" include the character model for Gen. We've already got Usagi and Tomoe Ame, so I'd just need him to complete the Usagi Yojimbo power trio.

[oldmanwinters]

Not quite: that's the design used for the flashback segment of "Tale of Master Yoshi".

I reeeeeally hope that updates for "Samurai Tourist" include the character model for Gen. We've already got Usagi and Tomoe Ame, so I'd just need him to complete the Usagi Yojimbo power trio.

Doh! My bad! Funny thing is that Laird's title for the file is "AncientOne."

[BubblyShell22]

Yay! I liked reading about two of my favorite eps from season four. That was really cool. Even though they didn't use Pete's idea for how the AO would be revealed, I liked the way they did it in the episode itself. The flashbacks were just so cool and very powerful.

[oldmanwinters]

Email problem concerning AOL:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/august-11-2004-re-nothin.html

Big collection of posts covering the last half of Season 4:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-319-august-5-2004.html

The funniest part of this exchange was how Laird was trying hard to convince 4Kids that Raph should be the infected/mutated turtle as opposed to Donatello. He makes the totally believable case that it would be a good tie-in with the Mirage comics storyline and even tries to root the argument in characterization. But I just think it's obvious that Don's his favorite turtle.:tlol:

[Jester]

I think the best part of the "Donnie becomes the Gamera rip-off" idea is the story concept about how lost the rest of the family is...if it were anyone else, as Leo himself says, Donnie would have whipped up a cure no problem. This is one I'm glad Laird lost.

EDIT:
Episode 97 sounds like a sad attempt by the 4kids writers to rip off Almost Got 'im an episode where Batman's rogues gallery sits around playing poker, also betting on the best "I almost got Batman" story. When did Malignus and Touch and Go ever face off against all 4 Turtles?

[oldmanwinters]

I think the best part of the "Donnie becomes the Gamera rip-off" idea is the story concept about how lost the rest of the family is...if it were anyone else, as Leo himself says, Donnie would have whipped up a cure no problem. This is one I'm glad Laird lost.

I agree with you. It really shows how essential Donny is to the group when he is out of commission (I think we also see evidence of that fact when Shredder took over the world after he "disappeared" for years in SaiNW). When Raph goes Gamera, business proceeds more or less as usual.

EDIT:
Episode 97 sounds like a sad attempt by the 4kids writers to rip off Almost Got 'im an episode where Batman's rogues gallery sits around playing poker, also betting on the best "I almost got Batman" story. When did Malignus and Touch and Go ever face off against all 4 Turtles?

Oh, yeah, the final script ended up drastically different than the initial pitch, didn't it?

[Xav]

I don't think that episode got a final script. It sounded a bit like Night of the Rogues. Also I think you can still hate the Turtles even if you didn't fight them all at once.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm glad it was Don who got mutated as it showed a different side to the dynamics of what Don contributes to the team and how vital it was to help him.

[oldmanwinters]

The discussions between Lloyd and Laird as to whether Raph or Don should get infected continued in their email exchange for "Outbreak":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-324-september-2-2004-re.html

[Jester]

The discussions between Lloyd and Laird as to whether Raph or Don should get infected continued in their email exchange for "Outbreak":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-324-september-2-2004-re.html
I'm sooo glad Lloyd won that one. I agree it is very much dramatic that Donnie is the one mutated because he's the "go to guy". Although the Mikey or Splinter angle could have been intriguing.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I'm glad it was Don who got mutated because it added a lot more emotion. If it had been Raph, it would've been too cliche since we know he has somewhat of an anger problem already. So, kudos to Lloyd for saving that one.

[oldmanwinters]

Apparently, "Insane in the Membrane" was going to be a remarkably different episode than the one we actually got (at least on DVD, that is):
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-328-september-12-2004.html

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-329-september-16-2004.html

In an early draft, Dr. Malignus would be exercising his "super mind powers" to control Leonardo like a puppet and pit him against the other turtles. It was gonna be a Justice Force episode that features lots of old B-villains from the series like Garbage Man and some previously unseen old foes of the J.Force (Grim Repo, Red Menace, Gas Giant, Mr. Destructo, Super Synthesizer and the Living Volcano). Wild stuff!

No clue when and why they eventually decided to go with Baxter Stockman's shocking descent into insanity, but I'm glad we got that instead of more Malignus.

[Jester]

Malignus and his Legion of Doom knock off....WEAK!

[ToTheNines]

Hot damn. They sure did love using Silver Sentry and all those other ****** characters every chance they got. We're really lucky we only had them in the episodes they're in.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Nobody is the only Justice Force guy they should have introduced to us. But Dr. Malignus did show some promise...

[Jester]

Nobody is the only Justice Force guy they should have introduced to us. But Dr. Malignus did show some promise...
Well, the NEW Justice Force. The Classic JF was fine...and was Mirage canon.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm glad they used Baxter instead of the JF plot which would've been way too weak. With Baxter we had a better backstory on him and his past.

[oldmanwinters]

Okay, turns out the Baxter/April story also existed at the time but under a different episode number:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-331-september-24-2004.html

So I guess that Justice Force story just got scrapped altogether and the title went to the Baxter episode?

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, and I'm glad that JF story did get scrapped. It was horrible by the way it sounded.

[CyberCubed]

Virtually every single one of these is Laird telling the 4kids writers that they're stupid or something is silly or makes no sense.

Its almost comedic.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Virtually every single one of these is Laird telling the 4kids writers that they're stupid or something is silly or makes no sense.

Its almost comedic.

Well, Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer are what happens when Pete DOESN'T look over the script for every single episode. And look how unpopular those seasons are compared to the others.

[ToTheNines]

Well, the NEW Justice Force. The Classic JF was fine...and was from Mirage canon.

Fixed......

[CyberCubed]

Well, Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer are what happens when Pete DOESN'T look over the script for every single episode. And look how unpopular those seasons are compared to the others.

I think he still had some input on those seasons, but he was getting really burnt out on the franchise in general at the time and was too busy working on the 4th movie with Imagi and Kevin Munroe.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I know he worked on the general storyline for those seasons, but I don't think he reviewed every episode.

[BubblyShell22]

I agree, TSM. Laird had every right to critique the writers' work and tell them what would fit and what wouldn't. That's how protective he was of the franchise he created. If he hadn't said anything, we would've gotten some pretty horrible episodes instead of the good ones that were made.

[oldmanwinters]

More notes on "Prodigal Son."
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-332-september-28-2004.html

I appreciate how Laird tried hard to prevent the writers from taking the "Super Leo" approach. Leo appeared to be supernaturally competent by the time Season 4 rolled around.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I agree about the Super Leo approach. The way I see it, he isn't a super ninja at all and is still learning.

[Xav]

I know he worked on the general storyline for those seasons, but I don't think he reviewed every episode. Well he sort of had to. He owned the rights to the franchise, so he had to give the OK on everything they did.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

He never seemed to pay too much attention to the 1987 series.

[Xav]

I think he did, its just that the old toon writers didn't really listen to him or Kevin.

[oldmanwinters]

More "Insane in the Membrane notes" (the real one that is, but before it officially took over the IitM name):
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-333-september-29-2004.html

Believe it or not, I have exceeded the 10,000 character limit on the first post. Looks like the future of the "Index" might be in jeopardy.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Just make another post and link to it from the first.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. Interesting analysis on these episodes.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Here (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/blast-from-past-334-september-30-2004.html) is a draft on episode 95, "Outbreak". Seems Peter was pleased with this one, seeing as it's clearly one of the more intelligently written scripts.

[MikeandRaph87]

I thought you all might be interested in Mr. Laird's response in reference to episodes pushing the envelope that i asked.


mikeandraph87 said... Did the "Tales of Yoshi" episode meet with any trouble because of the implied deaths of Yoshi's friend and girlfriend not to mention Yoshi himself? "

I don't recall any particular problem with "Tales of Yoshi" vis a vis Broadcast Standards and Practices… but I was less involved with that end than Lloyd and his crew at 4Kids. There may have been objections, there may not have… I just don't know.

"While we know the 4Kids network did not like the Hun and Garbage Man as conjoined twins episode in your eyes was there anything wrong with it as far as being aired as a cartoon?"

It's hard for me to judge. But I think it probably fell into whatever "safe zone" we'd established for the 4Kids TMNT show over the years it was on. It was definitely a weird story with a slightly unpleasant edge, but not so much that kids couldn't handle it, I think. -- PL

[oldmanwinters]

Laird has now gotten around to sharing his notes for the once-Lost Season 5!

"Return of Savanti II" 2nd Draft + Season 5
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-344.html

"Good Genes I-II" + "Ninja Tribunal"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/blast-from-past-345-november-12-2004.html

[MikeandRaph87]

I asked him awhile ago about J.Finn and what he was to Agent Bishop and if there was a reason Bishop experimetned on him. He replied he would look in the development notes when it came up,but I don't remember him covering "Dragon's Brew". Did he and I just miss it and if so which blog date was it? That episode was left open ended. I know all series have them but it if some of the answers can be given that would be great.

[MikeandRaph87]

I just saw this on Peter's TMNT Blog. I found it interesting and I agree on the "what the" and its the strangest usage of the TMNT likness I can think of. It beats the Shredder climbing something on a magizine cover that Peter spotted about a year ago.
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/what.html

[oldmanwinters]

Wow, "Nightmare's Recycled"! ... with concept art!

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/january-30-2005-re-outline-for-ep-110.html

The episode too risky for production!

Apparently, the Hun-Garbageman-as-brothers angle was a suggestion by Laird after he read the original script:

I'm not crazy about the origin of Garbageman as laid out in this outline, but I have to say that when I read the logline for this episode and saw that Hun and Garbageman were in it, I was IMMEDIATELY struck with an idea -- what if Hun and Garbageman were related? What if, in fact, they are BROTHERS? Think about it -- they share a certain bulky physicality.


We haven't really gotten into much of a backstory for Hun, and this could help to flesh out both him AND Garbageman. One approach might be to say that Garbageman was Hun's younger brother, deformed -- or at least disabled -- since birth... and maybe even a little mentally ill. When Hun became leader of the Purple Dragons and then the Shredder's right hand man, he tried to help out his brother through his connections... maybe attempting to use some of the Shredder's technology to provide him with mobility and opportunity, with the thought that this might also help him with his mental illness. But something went wrong, and Garbageman was born. (Making this connection to the Shredder and his tech might go a long way to explaining how Garbageman gets a lot of his amazing machines.)


His relationship to his crazy brother is one that Hun is obviously not pleased to reveal and/or talk about, and we could use that to good effect in this story. It would also make for a great bit just before a commercial break -- Garbageman calls Hun by name or something, and the perplexed Turtles can say "You guys know each other?"... and Hun, with a look on his face which mixes love, regret, loathing, and a bunch of other emotions, would say "Yeah... he's my brother!"

[BubblyShell22]

You know, put in that context, it actually sounded like a good idea the way Laird had it. Too bad they scrapped it.

[MikeandRaph87]

I wonder if instead of conjoined twins they were brothers about 18 months apart. I believe that was what Laird had in mind. If they want with that I would think it would have gotten the full go ahead.

[Jester]

Ok...fans let us track down "Raf" and hurt him...bad....
yawn .... are you going to finish these anytime soon? Seriously. Blast from the forgotten past is boring. TMNT fans are following Kevin Eastman's stuff now. So much more exciting to read what he posts online.Snore… I find comments like this as tedious as you apparently find my blog posts. They remind me of the ones I used to get when I was actively doing the TMNT Volume 4 comics, wherein I would be taken to task for the slow, boring, sci-fi, blah blah blah way I was doing the comic. And I would respond that it was pretty clear that I was doing the book the way I wanted to do the book, and the way I intended to CONTINUE doing the book, and if people didn't like it, they should STOP READING IT!!! There are plenty of other things to read in the world.

So, "Raf", I would give you the same advice regarding my blog -- if it bores you, why torture yourself? Stop reading it! Go read Kevin's exciting posts. I think all concerned would be happier if you did. I have several more years worth of my work on the 4Kids TMNT series to put on my blog, and I will continue to do that as I see fit.

[Donnie]

Aw man, it looks like Pete took that tool's comment to heart. ARGH!

[oldmanwinters]

Ok...fans let us track down "Raf" and hurt him...bad....

Aw man, it looks like Pete took that tool's comment to heart. ARGH!

Yeah, that fan's comment was pretty bad. Some fans just feel like the world is their oyster... only their whims and narrow interests should be fed.

If I could give Peter Laird one piece of advice, it would be to ignore the inevitable negative criticism that lacks substance. Instead, he should focus on the many positive compliments, constructive critiques, and inquisitive questions that also come his way.

It seems almost unfair that somebody as accomplished as Peter Laird should feel compelled to dignify the ravings of a cyber-punk like "Raf" with a response and an entire blog post. People like that simply shouldn't be encouraged with the exposure and extra attention. From what I've read on the comments section of Laird's blog, the majority of the fans' comments have been overwhelmingly positive to his decision to share production notes of the 4Kids series. Lots of very good questions tend to get asked, but most of them simply go answered on his part.

As someone who has read all the old fan letters in the Mirage Volume 1 and Volume 4 comics, I think that tendency is something Laird should try to work on in his later years. For all the good feedback he receives from fans (sometimes with little more than a polite "thanks"), he will (almost on cue) get disproportionally upset over some foolish fan's baseless complaints. Laird made a big step in his life trying to "get away" from the TMNT franchise and focus on the things in his life that were truly important. I hope that he is able to learn that life is still okay if there are a few rotten apples on the tree of the TMNT fandom.

[MikeandRaph87]

Peter got some nasier comments right after he sold TMNT to Viacom and is sure to get idiots like that post things on one of his twin blogs. Its a shame but its to be expected on Blogspot and youtube and other social tools. Slash will take care of that naysayer for Peter though! I reply to that too tomorrow afternoon. I love hearing what Peter has to say and he deserves a happy semi-retirement. This is all a favor to us and I am honored he enjoys it.

[Jester]

I responded:
Wow, has the internet age brought an end to tact? Peter could very well not put out this blog, he does it for us fans, and though Kevin may be more active now, Peter was working on them hard and heavy for years and got no love.

Thank you Peter. I may selectively read these posts (I'm glad to see suggestions and plot descriptions for the un-produced Nightmare Recycled) but the ones I do actually read are always very fun and make me glad I read them. Any chance you'll get to Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer? I'd love to see you're takes on the last 2 seasons and their radically different tone.

[Donnie]

It seems almost unfair that somebody as accomplished as Peter Laird should feel compelled to dignify the ravings of a cyber-punk like "Raf" with a response and an entire blog post. People like that simply shouldn't be encouraged with the exposure and extra attention. From what I've read on the comments section of Laird's blog, the majority of the fans' comments have been overwhelmingly positive to his decision to share production notes of the 4Kids series. Lots of very good questions tend to get asked, but most of them simply go answered on his part.

Extremely well said. Pete takes negative comments too harshly, he really lets these goons get to him. This "Raf" character is the only overtly negative comment I've seen on PL's blogs so I'm wondering how many other negative comments he has received. Either way, PL is so accomplished at this point and to let a worm like that piss you off resulting in an entire blog post about him is a little...much. I hope Pete chills out a little bit and realizes he has fans who really care about what he posts.

[CyberCubed]

From the responses PL gave, it seems Vol. 4 will continue to be on hiatus for a number of years.

At this point I wouldn't mind if IDW does their own conclusion for it based on his notes with Jim Lawson back as the artist.

[MikeandRaph87]

He also told me that projects like The Forever War which he could give some of his 18 a year to the Mirage Dudes to complete he refuses on the belief that he would get roped into it somehow. Is there another wat for The Forever War to get completed/published?

While its on my mind any speculations on Splinter showing up at The Battle Nexus?

[oldmanwinters]

Another sneak peak into what "Nightmares Recycled" may have been:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-357-february-11-2005.html
Super Garbageman Concept Art included!

At this point, Laird was still trying to convince the 4Kids team to go with the conjointed twins backstory for Hun-Garbageman.

Also, some of those writers made some embarrassing mistakes. Wheel barrel = Wheelbarrow? Come on, guys, grab a Dictionary!

[Xav]

He also told me that projects like The Forever War which he could give some of his 18 a year to the Mirage Dudes to complete he refuses on the belief that he would get roped into it somehow. Is there another wat for The Forever War to get completed/published? Yeah you would have to ask IDW about it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah you would have to ask IDW about it.

Just a suggestion but perhaps we could get a group of us from here to each write a letter via IDW's email address for letters? The more of us who commit to that will make it a little greater of a chance. How about Xav and guys? Lets how interest!

[oldmanwinters]

The Hun & Garbageman as conjointed twins plot twist finally takes shape.

The grisly details are unveiled!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-359-february-26-2005.html

"EXT. JUNKYARD – DAY
HUN JR. runs happily holding the freshly removed, unconscious GARBAGEMAN JR, his lower half wrapped in DIRTY BLANKETS. Hun JR. <TOSSES> Garbageman Jr. into a pile of TRASH. CAM FOLLOWS Garbageman Jr.’s flight, falling unconscious amid the garbage."

It seems a little preposterous that young Hun could run right after such a serious operation... and unlikely as well that -- if his motive in finding the creepy doctor was to just get rid of his conjoined twin -- Hun would care enough about that twin to have the doctor keep the twin alive during or after the operation.


I would suggest a slightly tweaked version, in which Hun and the creepy doctor strike a deal -- the doctor will do the operation, but as payment he gets to keep the malformed twin for his own sick purposes, to experiment on as he sees fit. But at some point the freak turns on the doctor and kills him, then takes over his equipment and supplies ("recycles" them, you might say) to begin his career as Garbageman.

[CyberCubed]

Shame that after all the work on the script for that episode, the whole thing never went into production. Sounds like it also would have redeemed Garbageman as a character as well.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. That sounds really dark but good. I wish they would've made that episode because it probably could've had some potential.

[MikeandRaph87]

I think it could have worked if Garbage Man was Hun's younger brother by a year or two instead of conjoined twin. If that was done I think it would have gotten the green light. What do you all think?

[oldmanwinters]

I think it could have worked if Garbage Man was Hun's younger brother by a year or two instead of conjoined twin. If that was done I think it would have gotten the green light. What do you all think?

Reading the first accounts of the conjointed twins approach actually does strike me as a more gruesome than necessary origin story for a Saturday morning cartoon. I mean... little Hun throwing the remains of his surgically removed brother into the garbage. Or agreeing to give your little brother to a crazy scientist to experiment upon. geez...

I think that sort of thing would work much better in a comic book than in a cartoon show.

[Jude]

I think it could have worked if Garbage Man was Hun's younger brother by a year or two instead of conjoined twin. If that was done I think it would have gotten the green light. What do you all think?

I think you are probably right. It makes it sound a lot less gruesome.

[MikeandRaph87]

I think you are probably right. It makes it sound a lot less gruesome.

Hey, Jude. I see your registration is earlier than mine but welcome to the board anyway. I think that Hun could be ashamed Garbage Man for his deformity and inabilities to things not to mention the disgusting thing he became trying to prove himself to his family. Maybe thier father was the unnamed mob boss's lieutenant and Hun learned the ropes of crime and was a founding member of the Purple Dragons street gang. While Hun was successful Garbage Man ignored and deformed thought he would taken in others who are ignored as in the homeless to use for his own neafarious purposes. Maybe an underground doctor agreed to help Garbage Man with his deformity but lied to him so Garbage Man threatened his life unless the doctor supplied him with the resources to become the Garbage Man. There you have it a way to make the episode happen and not have to deal with the conjoined twins controversey. Thought its all just my idea and opinion I hope others like it.:tsmile:

[oldmanwinters]

Laird posted his notes on the "Fathers and Sons" outline (which I know should excite Jester because it's his FAVORITE EPISODE OF ALL TIME!!!).
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/blast-from-past-360-march-2-2005-re.html

At least Peter seems to recognize a continuity problem with the script:
But more important -- are we saying that Splinter returned to Japan with ALL FOUR TURTLE TOTS in tow, just to see the Ancient One? That seems a bit ridiculous.
Also, doesn't this break continuity? In the episode where Leo goes to see the Ancient One and receive training from him, Leo doesn't recognize him... but if Leo had seen the Ancient One when Leo was a youngster, wouldn't he have remembered him?


Anyway, quotes like these once again reveal Laird's sensitivity to the old FW series:


1.) Re: the following:

"We open on an eerie full moon against a blood red night sky."

Very poetic, but as far as I can tell, impossible. How can the sky at NIGHT be "blood red"? Plus, the mention of a red sky puts me in mind of the old cartoon, the last season of which I believe is referred to as the "red sky" season. I MIGHT be able to buy a blood red moon, as that makes a little more sense.

I think it's kinda funny. :tlol:

And it's too bad we didn't get to see this little homage in the final animation!
"Leo pours a magical powder all over Mikey’s head. Mikey’s head quickly transforms in a super-quick homage to the old Turtles series: his head becomes Bebop <POOF> Rocksteady <POOF> Krang’s Android Head, and <POOFS> back to Mikey’s head. "
Yeah... Peter didn't go for that idea at all!

[BubblyShell22]

Well, at least he recognized some of the continuity errors. The one that bugs me about this ep (and I do like this ep a lot) is that Splinter knew of Shredder being an Utrom when he was shocked when it was first revealed in Secret Origins.

And as for Leo not remembering the AO, I think we can chalk that up to the Tribunal erasing the Turtles' memories when they were younger. That would make sense that Leo wouldn't recognize him even though the AO recognized Leo.

[Xav]

Shame that after all the work on the script for that episode, the whole thing never went into production. It actually did go into production. Some animation was done before the episode was pulled.

[oldmanwinters]

Some animation was done before the episode was pulled.

Now that I'd like to see. I remember the 4Kids Rep who had a Technodrome Forum account and updated their TMNT blog hinted that they might have plans for the Nightmare's Recycled episode on one of their future DVD releases. Unfortunately, that never happened due to the buyout and other factors.

[TobTurn]

''.) Pretty freakin' cool! I have one comment, re: the following:

"Later. Gracie Mansion. Several of the Mayor’s employees look up at the weird new tree in front of the mansion.


The bark looks frighteningly like a demon’s face.


As they leave, a HUMAN HAND pierces the bark from the inside of the tree, reaching out!!"

What is up with this? What is this human hand? Are we bringing back the Tengu Shredder so soon? If so, I'm not sure that is such a great idea. I'd like to know more about what is meant by this scene.
If we want to end this season on a cliffhanger, here's an alternate suggestion (incorporating some ideas I discussed with Lloyd earlier):


The big battle is over, and our heroes breath a sigh of relief. "Finally... the Shredder is gone forever."
Cut to outer space, many light years away. A hulking space ship makes its way through an asteroid field. We see that it is crewed by Triceratons... they are part of a long range deep-space survey/salvage crew. A shuttle is launched from the ship and it lands on one of the larger asteroids, a bleak and frozen place. Freezing, howling winds blow snow and shards of ice around. Several Triceratons in space suits exit the ship and go about some kind of scanning for valuable resources on this planetoid. They are about to leave when one of them gets an odd reading on his scanner. They follow the readings...


... and come to their source: the frozen Utrom Shredder!!!''

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[oldmanwinters]

At last!

The first set of feedback on the notes for "Season 6", which would eventually become "Fast Forward!"
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-469-june-12-2005-re.html

[Jester]

I'd really like to see the boards for the re-work of the theme.
4.) Re: the following:

"Casey Jones is a son-of-a-b***h"

Huh??? Maybe there is another meaning to that phrase that escapes me, but for me it has always meant "@$$hole". And I don't think of Casey that way.
Where does this come from? I totally agree with Laird. What the hey?

[oldmanwinters]

I'd really like to see the boards for the re-work of the theme.

Where does this come from? I totally agree with Laird. What the hey?

Yeah, I had no idea why that line was supposedly in the "Revamp Bible." Eh???

[CyberCubed]

It seems like Fast Forward wasn't originally going to happen at first. There's post there of characters that would eventually become Cody and Jammerhead, but they're by different names and agendas.

[Redeemer]

Wow that Garbage man episode sounds pretty gruesome, would have love to see it, but I think it would have gotten shelved like insane to the membrane

[Jester]

Laird on the Fast Forward Bible (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-471-july-13-2005-re.html)
I really like that logo. Better than the one we got.

[CyberCubed]

So far nothing from the Fast Forward stuff seems wacky...I still want to know why the hell Triple Threat and Mike becoming obsessed with videogames was approved of...

[oldmanwinters]

Future Shellshock notes, complete with early Cody Jones concept art.
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-472-july-14-2005-re.html

Love that Tron-approved jumpsuit!

Also, this was a cool recommendation by Peter Laird:
7.) Another thought that just came to me: It might be fun to have holographic computer simulated versions (either insubstantial or solid like STAR TREK holodeck holograms) of the original Casey and April, programmed by them (and their descendants) to be as close to the originals as possible. They could be used by Cody for teaching and reference... and to some extent, companionship. Might make for some fun interactions with the Turtles and Splinter. And maybe one of Don's projects is to use his first-hand knowledge of the original Casey and April to reprogram the holograms so that they are more like the actual people that he knew.
That might have been cool. I'm not sure how much mileage they could have gotten out of it though. I can't help but think it would end up like a Tim Taylor talks to Wilson moment (Home Improvement) at the end of every episode.

[Jester]

I dunna, one of the things I missed the most was April and Casey in >>. This idea could have worked. Heck, I think it would have been if the wrist gauntlets projected April/Casey alla R2D2.

I do like how they had regional environment with their own atmosphere, helped get away from the whole "the air is TOO clean" stuff.

[oldmanwinters]

The origins of Sh’okaNabo and the FF redesigned turtles!

Sho'ky:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-473-july-18-2005-re.html

Peter Laird draws his own take on how the enviropacks should look:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-474-july-25-2005-re-new.html

[Jester]

I kinda wish I could see the original >> Turtles, with their "goofy black Ace bandages."

[oldmanwinters]

Glad to see Laird shot down the notion of Splinter having trouble telling the turtles apart without their bandanas:

3.) Re: the following:

"(NOTE: If there's room, I'd like to get a running gag out of Splinter not being able to tell the Turtles apart without their masks.)"

To my mind, this is a REALLY dumb, lazy gag -- after raising them for fifteen-plus years, Splinter SURELY knows how to tell one Turtle from another. He could tell them apart with his eyes closed! Now CODY -- that's another story. It might be funny when he meets them for the first time, he mixes up their names.
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-475-july-22-2005-re-fw.html

That joke was done fairly well (in my opinion) by Brian Thomas and Steve Sullivan in TMNT Adventures #58, since the turtles were still so young. But it wouldn't be believable once the turtles were teenagers... who also happened to have distinctive voices and skin tones.

[Jester]

...and in >>, body types.

[CyberCubed]

Interesting that PL wanted Cody to have an Utrom friend, particularly Glurin from Volume 4. It might have been interesting to see an Utrom living with Cody and Serling.

Makes me wonder why the writers didn't use this suggestion from Peter.

[Jester]

I really wish we had gotten the "Holo-Shredder" episode. Yeah, Viral used the holo-trainer for nefarious purposes, but could you imagine a holographic Shredder who either thinks he's real, or actually knows he's a hologram and tries to use the holo-program to conquer the world!!!

[Jester]

Oh my gosh, Peter intentionally created a key plot point for a major blockbuster.

"Cash"? We're a hundred years in the future and they're still using cash? Maybe that's possible -- albeit unlikely -- but perhaps there is something more valuable AND unique to this particular venue that she is stealing. How about the Pan-Galactic Wrestling Federation Ultra-Mega-Heavyweight belt made of jewel-encrusted Unobtanium?

Wait....false alarm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium)... :(

[CyberCubed]

Man the Triple Threat episodes of FF were my least favorite. I think that character is what gave the series a bad name, particularly that he appears as early as the 4th episode.

Its sad really, FF actually had some really good episodes but its the weaker ones that everyone remembers for some reason.

[Jester]

Headlock Prime is mentioned in the latest blog (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-476-july-26-2005.html), but the story changed very VERY drastically. Triple Threat was originally a woman....a very fat woman named, are you sitting down, THE FAT WOMAN. Subtle.

Also Viral and Sh’okanabo get a gender swap.

[CyberCubed]

Wow, so Triple Threat was going to be even worse? The more you know.

[oldmanwinters]

Lots of concept art for the Fast Forward Season:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/blast-from-past-478.html

Also, Laird revealed that he's found lots of email exchanges with Lloyd on the 1st season! He'll post them eventually!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/what-to-do.html#comment-form

[CoolWhip]

Awesome stuff.

[Raven]

After seeming some of these notes, I don't know if I would like to be in some of these writers shoes. Laird kind of belittles a lot of what they do, I know hes trying to get better stuff out of them but insulting the person behind it seems like hes over stepping a boundary.

[oldmanwinters]

After seeming some of these notes, I don't know if I would like to be in some of these writers shoes. Laird kind of belittles a lot of what they do, I know hes trying to get better stuff out of them but insulting the person behind it seems like hes over stepping a boundary.

Laird's critical tone has been a source of debate amongst the fandom, but I've come to the conclusion that most of the writers who did the actual scripts for the 4Kids show did some really terrible work, despite their best efforts. They failed at grammar, logic, and characterization. Laird and Lloyd Goldfine really salvaged the show and turned it into a pretty respectable action cartoon. Without them, the show could have been abyssal.

Even the commonly disliked Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer seasons that we ultimately got were substantially better than what we could have seen on TV.

[Xav]

After seeming some of these notes, I don't know if I would like to be in some of these writers shoes. Laird kind of belittles a lot of what they do, I know hes trying to get better stuff out of them but insulting the person behind it seems like hes over stepping a boundary. Though I don't think the writers saw what Laird said. He was talking to Lloyd Goldfine, who probably just told the writers what Laird wanted.

[Jester]

Though I don't think the writers saw what Laird said. He was talking to Lloyd Goldfine, who probably just told the writers what Laird wanted.
That's a good point, Lloyd was probably the "middle man" who censored, or at least softened, Laird's points. Though, now one wonders how many of the 4Kids staff reads these blogs... :P

I used to be one of those who saw these as nitpicks, then (with help from a certain forum friend and cohort) I realized, these guys are professional writers, some of these things they have little excuse for.

[FearlessLeader]

I used to be one of those who saw these as nitpicks, then (with help from a certain forum friend and cohort) I realized, these guys are professional writers, some of these things they have little excuse for.

THIS!

It's bad enough they attempt to write for a franchise without at times understanding the fundamental characterizations of the creations they are writing for but the grammar errors are just unforgivable for a professional.

I mean imagine if you were reading a magazine and there were mistakes every 3rd of 4th sentence. I am pretty certain you would be annoyed to be paying to read it.

[The Big Bad]

These aren't final versions of the scripts, though: they're drafts in what are mostly early stages of production. Consistency and sense, and yes, spelling, are less important than figuring out what works and what doesn't work. While the evidence rather unambiguously seems to show that Laird's touch improved every script, there's also little evidence that they wouldn't have improved without him (and yes, I know that would mean proving a negative).

On another note, I guess we can now safely discard the theory that the drop in quality in the last two seasons was due to Laird's lack of supervision. Right now I'm leaning towards short deadlines myself, especially since both seasons got better as they went along, production-wise.

Also, looking at the info we've gotten for "Obsolete", I'm surprised that we haven't gotten any inkling about Starlee's existence yet. It makes me wonder in what order characters were conceived in. And dangit, we better get official art of her, and Darius. They're the two biggest FF characters we haven't gotten art of yet.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah it seems PL was just as critical of the FF scripts. I am glad he shot down the idea of bubbles blowing out of Mike's ears when he was scared...seriously WTF was up with that?

Some of these writers really are retarded. Its hard to believe the majority of the 4kids series turned out quite good after seeing how bad it could have been.

[Xav]

Also, looking at the info we've gotten for "Obsolete", I'm surprised that we haven't gotten any inkling about Starlee's existence yet. It makes me wonder in what order characters were conceived in. And dangit, we better get official art of her, and Darius. They're the two biggest FF characters we haven't gotten art of yet.Laird posted art of Starlee on his blog.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JgXLEJwykEI/T1BGvHUVAaI/AAAAAAAAD2M/Y3i4MGPW9CY/s1600/starlee.jpg

[Raven]

Laird's critical tone has been a source of debate amongst the fandom, but I've come to the conclusion that most of the writers who did the actual scripts for the 4Kids show did some really terrible work, despite their best efforts. They failed at grammar, logic, and characterization. Laird and Lloyd Goldfine really salvaged the show and turned it into a pretty respectable action cartoon. Without them, the show could have been abyssal.

Even the commonly disliked Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer seasons that we ultimately got were substantially better than what we could have seen on TV.

yea now after looking through these again I kind of can see where Mr. Laird is coming from. These guys are getting paid for this and this is what there turning out? I guess I would be just as critical as he was.

Plus when your making a show of high quality some of these scripts seem kind of hammed up. Im really glad to see Mr. Laird put some pressure on them.

[Killer Moth]

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-490-august-19-2005-re.html

Not the absoulte latest, but here he just posted his past contentions about the series' use of Serling. He's fine with the character, but the whole character treatment of "a character in his own right vs. his goofy robot butler archetype." I don't disagree, as the series seemed to go back-and-forth about that. (Bear in mind, I haven't viewed Fast Forward in years, so anyone is free to refresh my memory.)

Bonus points for Laird's "Lost In Space" reference, because I'm obviously an old-school nerd.

[oldmanwinters]

Peter Laird suggests introducing "Space Usagi!":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-498-september-15-2005.html

[Killer Moth]

Peter Laird suggests introducing "Space Usagi!":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-498-september-15-2005.html

It's a shame that wasn't able to occur. Space Usagi would have fit right in with Fast Forward. Maybe if the concept kept going, they might have gone there. After all, weren't they about to devise a Triceraton Shredder? Or so I heard.

This bit from the "Night of Sh'Okanabo" first draft is amusing:

"SH’OKANABO (CONT’D)
I will eliminate myself. TONIGHT."

All right! The end of the big bad guy -- and he's going to do it himself! Woo hoo! That's great! I --


Uh...


... I just realized -- that line's probably just missing a "them" between "eliminate" and "myself". Darn.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/blast-from-past-496-september-14-2005.html

"Darn," indeed. Still can't stop laughing.

[MikeandRaph87]

Hey guys,Peter Laird comments on the alien debacle on his TMNT Blog:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/more-musings-related-to-turtles-as.html
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/question.html
Its an extension to a reply to a comment if any are interested.