What would your line in the sand be for IDW?

[erik]

By which I mean, what kind of changes or additions introduced in IDW TMNT, would you just say "ok, you've gone too far" - and make you want to stop reading.

It's just while its all been great, they have been reviving a lot of old concepts, and hinted at hated ones - like a 5th Turtle (even if tangentially, like recently seen in the April spotlight issue.)

Another mutant team (like the Frogs, from the old TMNT show)? A Baxter Stockman transformation into a fly? Bebop, Rocksteady? Krang and Shredder partnering up and bickering? A cool, but rude, Raph?

For me, another Turtle is going too far. I can accept what was hinted at with the April issue, but not as a direct relative.

Oh, and if any girl Turtle, like a Venus de Milo, shows up (or is joked about, like in any way like at the end of the TMNT leaked script) - that will cause me to drop the IDW series entirely.

Oh, and alien origins. Splinter better not suddenly say "I was lying this whole time!" (ala the leaked script. boy was that horrible - makes me doubt Kevin Eastman's creditability and judgement)

The reincarnation twist, for me, has actually played pretty well. And the mature topics, like atheism debates, child abuse, and Spinter going all ninja-crazy in regard to said abuse (even if he goes "psyche" - it was an awesome moment!), is a welcome sight - especially as a counter-weight to all the old cartoon references.

So what would you consider crossing the line, for IDW? What would make you drop the series, if the story-lines go too off kilter? Or has the line already been crossed for you?

[thelouisguy]

For now, they are doing a really good job of introducing everything. When the series first started, I would have said The Technodrome would have made me stop reading, but a year later and the Fugitoid issue was probably one of my favorites to read!

Actually, yes. There is one thing they could do that I would not be happy with. Tokka and Rahzar. I really do not like those two. They were created for no reason just to have "more mutants". As much as I did not like the Fred Wolf Bebop and Rocksteady, those two should have been in the Secret of the Ooze and not Tokka and Rahzar.

Otherwise, IDW has been firing on all cylinders and is a must read for any Turtles fan.

[Toby Barrett]

Guess you better go ahead and drop the book, since we already have a fifth turtle in the form of Slash showing up in the Blood Brothers arc.

And I've been hoping for Tokka and Rahzar since I learned there'd be more mutants in this series. :lol:

[erik]

Guess you better go ahead and drop the book, since we already have a fifth turtle in the form of Slash showing up in the Blood Brothers arc.

And I've been hoping for Tokka and Rahzar since I learned there'd be more mutants in this series. :lol:

I was talking about just that - having read the April issue. Since he's a villain, and perhaps just another Turtle used in the lab - then I think I can accept Slash.

[thelouisguy]

And I've been hoping for Tokka and Rahzar since I learned there'd be more mutants in this series. :lol:

Ha ha! Well, like I said before, IDW has been doing a really good job at interweaving the TMNT Universes so who knows; if done properly, IDW might even make me like Tokka and Rahzar...

I was talking about just that - having read the April issue. Since he's a villain, and perhaps just another Turtle used in the lab - then I think I can accept Slash.

Yes, I have accepted Slash since his origin makes a lot of sense.

[Lampy]

i think you cleared all the possibilities already. most of what you said regarding a 5th brother or sister Turtle, splinter lying in purpose just for revenge, alien origins are some of my worst nightmares coming out of this series. i'm okay with the technodrome, tokka and rahzar, slash, the other mutant teams so long as they're done right. even if they weren't... it's not enough reason for me to drop the entire series. those mentioned in my first sentence are. but one thing that would give me reason to drop the book is if one or more of the Turtles dies young permanently... whether its in year two or year five. i'm okay with a future tale (ala mirage) though... but a Turtle dying young is something i won't take. i don't even care if they try to replace him... it won't be good enough.i know it's not gna happen... but.. that's my line.

[chrisdude]

Venus, alone, wouldn't stop me. But introducing that level of magic and mysticism would almost certainly turn me off the series.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I hope to see some of TNM characters show up. I say bring on Venus and Silver at least. I really hope Tokka and Rahzar show up. Love those two.

[MikeandRaph87]

You obiviously perfer the black and white comics so your line in the sand is different from mine,one who perfers the other media approach. My line in the sand is one of the turtles murdering a villain. I like the hero and villain separated by willingess to kill. Also, one the turtle turtles dying or losing a limb. I doubt the latter will happen but the former is still up in the air. I think the story with Slash will give an answer on the other. I do appreciate how IDW is weaving it all together not ignoring characters and bringing in elements from everywhere. Another line crossed I would not tolerate is a female turtle named Venus. That line like losing limbs should not be a problem though.

[Archon_Turtle]

Is the "You're" in the title of this thread driving anyone else crazy? Lol.

[thelouisguy]

Venus, alone, wouldn't stop me.

If she had a similar origin to Slash, I would take Venus. Being a "sister" would not work since we have already established that Hamato Yoshi has four sons.

But introducing that level of magic and mysticism would almost certainly turn me off the series.

Second.

Is the "You're" in the title of this thread driving anyone else crazy? Lol.

Ha! Yes.

[Vegeta]

If it starts mirroring the nick show instead of being its own universe. The comic definitely did a bait and switch in the beginning with the mirage feel and pretty much abandoning it. I can forgive that but not if it becomes too childish.

[Candy Kappa]

Wait, Reincarnation is A-Okay, but magic isn't?

so many laughing meme faces to choice from to convey the hilarity.

[DrSpengler]

I suppose what my potential "breaking point" might be is if they changed editors.

We are VERY lucky to have an editor as dedicated to the material as Curnow; someone who actively thinks about where issues slot in between other issues and keeps a timeline of events to maintain narrative cohesion. Not all editors give that much of a damn and IDW has had their fair share of them on other titles.

Andy Schmidt was so apathetic toward the Transformers books he edited (a series with so many simultaneous releases it NEEDED a dedicated editor like you wouldn't believe) that the series became an absolute mess of nonsense and contradictions for years. Then when he actually tried to sculpt a timeline he only made things worse and created MORE contradictions.

A good editor can make or break a book, particularly one that has multiple titles released at once, yet they all need to interweave without stepping on one another's toes.

The mere fact that we get placement notes on the interior covers of each Microseries, telling us where they go in regards to the ongoing series, says a lot. Most editors wouldn't even try *that* hard.

So if they changed editors and we wound up with someone less interested in the material and just trying to collect a paycheck, I might have to call it quits. After close to ten years of collecting Transformers comics I never thought I'd stop cold turkey, but the editing on those titles were so incompetent they succeeded in making me throw up my hands and cancelling all my subs.

So once again, I'm really happy with the creative teams we have on the IDW book AND the editorial staff. They keep a well-oiled machine.

[Cryomancer]

Thus far they've managed to toy with various concepts that run the spectrum of everyone likes it / not everyone likes it and it's been pretty much fine so far, so I really don't know if there is any one particular thing that I would "stop reading forever" over just because it existed, you know?. That's a long sentence. Basically I'm saying even if they introduce Venus or girlfriends or drawing-April or whatever other thing that sucked before, I'd at least give it a chance and see what they do with it. They could very well take something that had poor execution before and turn it into something cool, you never know.

I mean they already made the Neutrinos into something (comparatively) better, despite them perhaps losing some of their "identity" in their appearances so far. They've made them into something that can indeed have tragic stories written about. Although I wouldn't mind seeing some weird hair and flying cars from them too, eventually.

[CyberCubed]

Honestly the only thing that would truly anger me is killing off one of the main cast, like April or Casey.

Thankfully there's probably no chance in hell of that happening, so I have nothing to worry about.

[pannoni1]

Basically if any problem that arose in any previous incarnation arose, that would do it, or if the plots become too repetitive and dull. IDW does well since lots of the writers were raised on TMNT and create fresh new takes on previous material, reinventing characters and other plotlines. But I would say as long as the Turtles don't become fully human or we have nothing but one-shot villains with lame plots, we would have an entertaining series to read, just like any other form of entertainment.

[Powder]

How can you know the word "Tangentially" but not the difference between "You're" & "Your"?

[Candy Kappa]

How can you know the word "Tangentially" but not the difference between "You're" & "Your"?

spell check can be a cruel mistress? :P

[chrisdude]

Wait, Reincarnation is A-Okay, but magic isn't?

so many laughing meme faces to choice from to convey the hilarity.The reincarnation bit is lame, IMO. I appreciate the ready-made history, but I was denying it with Donnie. I'm dealing with it.

What I'm afraid of, is them one day finding out how it happened, and it being some magical silliness. Or, worse yet, they may remember their entire past lives, and deal with being humans in gross mutant bodies...

[CyberCubed]

They aren't humans, they were mutated from turtles as see in the first issue. They merely have the spirits of Yoshi's sons.

It's not like how Splinter actually IS Hamato Yoshi.

[Jephael]

It takes a lot for something to bother me, though I will admit if we ever see any vampires or zombies introduced, I'm calling it quits! Twilight and True Blood just ruined that genre for me.

[Sophie Campbell]

i don't think my line in the sand would be over an idea or particular character, i think with the right touch and right execution anything can be made good. i know it when i see it. i'm open to new interpretations of anything. you never can tell.

my line would be over something really racist or sexist appearing in the series, or some ethical breach similar to (not to drag this into it) the stuff DC Comics has been going through recently with creators' rights. or if Tom or Bobby turned out to be Neo Nazis or something, i could no longer put money in their pockets!! ;) (HI, YOU GUYS)

i'm trying to think of characters or ideas that i plain old hate but i'm not coming up with much except prophecies and Chosen Ones, not crazy about those but there are exceptions, i suppose. i'm kinda tired of stuff all being related to destiny and prophecies and fate, i wish some things could just be accidents sometimes.

another thing that i'm never crazy about with TMNT is when they're tasked to save the world, they've never seemed to me like those kind of characters. TMNT and epicness don't go together in my opinion so i might be kinda put off if IDW TMNT got too epic with the Turtles saving the Earth or the universe or whatever. if anybody could pull that off, though, it's the IDW folks. all the war campaign stuff has been played great so far, i like how even Krang and the Neutrino stuff is still done in a very down-to-earth tone.

anyway, man this is long. OH, you know what would really tick me off, is something like Turtles Forever showing up in IDW TMNT, like the IDW Turtles meeting the Mirage Turtles or some crossover meta garbage like that. YOU HEAR ME, BOBBY?!?!? ;)

[Noah13]

She who cannot be named!!!

No female turtles!

[thelouisguy]

No female turtles!

Then how do they reproduce?

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Death of a Turtle or April or Casey.

Besides that, I'm up for just about anything.

[Heather Breckel]

As long as the series continues to be entertaining, there really is no specific line for me.

[n-zero]

Hard to say. I would have said the Nuetrinos, but they're already a part of the series and are handled extremely well. At this point, as far as characters are concerned I'm excited to see anything they can reimagine.

The only thing I can think of would be messing with the core four too much. It would be like a Fantastic Four roster change- it may be interesting for a few months, but if you try to make it permanent you've killed your book.

[Cryomancer]

It takes a lot for something to bother me, though I will admit if we ever see any vampires or zombies introduced, I'm calling it quits! Twilight and True Blood just ruined that genre for me.

Mirage had some werewolves, it was alright. It did give an excuse for a few Raph+Shadow issues and had sweet ass Ross Campbell covers.

edit: There's something IDW could screw up, introducing Shadow and using her poorly, haha.

[Candy Kappa]

Mirage had some werewolves, it was alright. It did give an excuse for a few Raph+Shadow issues and had sweet ass Ross Campbell covers.

edit: There's something IDW could screw up, introducing Shadow and using her poorly, haha.

There where also Vampires in Mirage

[Godzilla]

As long as I find enjoyment and entertainment in the books, I'm on board. If it gets to the point where reading becomes a chore, that's the line in the sand.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I think the fact that people have "a line in the sand" is kind of funny. I mean lets stop and think about that for just a moment. A line in the sand is something that is very flimsy to begin with. Any little thing can erase that line by walking over it, a wave crashing over it, or a new line being drawn. A line in the sand is a flimsy marker. It isn't permeant.

When I hear these kinds of statements using the line in the sand it just makes me wonder. To me it is more of posturing and trying to come off as bad ass. Yet I have never seen it happen yet. I have faith in the IDW guys that they will do things right for their book. This isn't Archie, Mirage, Image, Fred Wolf, 4kids, exe. This is IDW and a brand new timeline. Just because a character shows up doesn't mean they will be the exact same.

To shut down or drop this title because you are stuck on an idea from a different version shows how narrow minded you are. Just because something was done poorly before doesn't mean it would be in IDW. For example I'm not a big fan of Bebop or Rocksteady. They were fun in the cartoon, and I'll admit their cameo kind of upset me at first. But then I realized I haven't seen what IDW is going to do with them. Who knows I might like IDWs take.

Point being is people need to calm down. If they kill a character off, I'm going to assume they thought it was for the best and have a story to tell by doing so. Regardless of what they do in this universe I still have others that I can read/watch.

[Jephael]

If they kill a character off, I'm going to assume they thought it was for the best and have a story to tell by doing so. Regardless of what they do in this universe I still have others that I can read/watch.

I don't believe they're going to kill anyone off, atleast not until we get to maybe the #50 milestone. Also, they wouldn't go killing off any of the Turtles. They're the title characters for Petesake!

[Donnie]

Is the "You're" in the title of this thread driving anyone else crazy? Lol.

Indeed...indeed.

[Jephael]

Been trying hard not to make a comment, but yea that misuse of punctuation is irritating!

[CyberCubed]

While I wouldn't exactly hate it, I don't think we need to see Don turned into a cyborg again. Having that happen once was enough.

[Galactus]

I don't think there's any one thing that would be a line in the sand. There's plenty of things that I'd say were dubious or be wary (some very very wary) if but it'd be more a case of overall quality decline or vasty differing vibe from what I asoiate with TMNT that would cause me to quiit reading the books.

[Jephael]

While I wouldn't exactly hate it, I don't think we need to see Don turned into a cyborg again. Having that happen once was enough.

Same should be said for any of the Turtles losing limbs, eyes or any other body part. However, it would be interesting to see one of the guys get his appendix removed.

[Dirty Blond]

If they go in any way political, I won't like it.

[Coola Yagami]

None exists for me. Even if they were to bring in Venus and Lord Dregg, I would be very curious as to IDW's take on the characters.

[TurtleMaster4]

Make the turtles aliens...... and their dead.

[frank_one]

As I said here (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38258&page=5), Nickelodeon putting IDW under pressure to make the comics more similar to the show is where I would stop buying the comics.

[Lampy]

As I said here (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38258&page=5), Nickelodeon putting IDW under pressure to make the comics more similar to the show is where I would stop buying the comics.

yea... that would really suck. i don't mind if they introduced nick characters... but if the characters start acting like their nick counterparts and the book starts looking and feeling that way... i'd drop it too. by the looks of it... it may already be starting... considering the secret history of the foot mini-series art.:tsad:

[Jester]

If Alopex is revealed to be the reincarnated Tang Shen.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I realize everyone has their breaking point, that they just can't take anymore, but come on really them looking a little more like their Nick look? Every artist has their own take and I'm sure some will be influenced by the Nick stuff. Heck if I was to draw the turtles I'd try to mix the Mirage and Nick look as those are my two favorite looks right now.

Jester and me were talking about Alopex being Tang Shen, while that wouldn't be my cup of tea I don't think I'd give up the book even at that. I would asume they were doing it for a reason and not just shock. I've found I'm very forgiving when it comes to things TMNT related.

[CyberCubed]

What if they turn April into a drawing created by Kirby's magic crystal?

Oh wait.

[Lampy]

I realize everyone has their breaking point, that they just can't take anymore, but come on really them looking a little more like their Nick look? Every artist has their own take and I'm sure some will be influenced by the Nick stuff. Heck if I was to draw the turtles I'd try to mix the Mirage and Nick look as those are my two favorite looks right now.

Jester and me were talking about Alopex being Tang Shen, while that wouldn't be my cup of tea I don't think I'd give up the book even at that. I would asume they were doing it for a reason and not just shock. I've found I'm very forgiving when it comes to things TMNT related.

i don't mean if they start looking like the nick counterparts...what i meant was if nickelodeon started calling shots that start to influence the story and look and feel of the series. then that would be a major issue for me. looking like their nick turtles doesn't bother me that much. i'd still read it.

alopex being a reincarnated tang shen would be something else entirely... but i wouldn't drop the book because of that either.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Nick already calls the shots. They have to run every story, every character, everything they want to do by Nick. So I'm not sure why that would change anything now. Nick seems to be fine letting IDW be its own thing. Besides didn't IDW say they were trying to get a Nick toon based comic off the ground?

[Lampy]

Nick already calls the shots. They have to run every story, every character, everything they want to do by Nick. So I'm not sure why that would change anything now. Nick seems to be fine letting IDW be its own thing. Besides didn't IDW say they were trying to get a Nick toon based comic off the ground?

you just answered your own question.

[Cowabunga Carl]

You realize your point makes no sense right? IDW runs things by Nick right now. We already know the origin in the comic is vastly different then the show. So they can't get things to much inline with the show. Besides if they start a separate Nicktoon comic it would be no different then the Archie and Mirage comics.

[Lampy]

You realize your point makes no sense right? IDW runs things by Nick right now. We already know the origin in the comic is vastly different then the show. So they can't get things to much inline with the show. Besides if they start a separate Nicktoon comic it would be no different then the Archie and Mirage comics.

how does it not make sense? you said that nick seems to be letting idw do its own thing. and if they suddenly want to take the reigns and call all the shots that somehow change how this series feels... if they start to make changes that start to influence this universe... then i personally would start to hate it because its not idw's universe anymore... it's nick's. it's as if the editor and writer won't matter if nick wants to do things their way if they should ever take that freedom away from idw to write this series the way they are now.

if a nick-based comic arises... then cool. but i have my reasons to drop the series should need be... and you have yours. take it or leave it.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Nick already does call the shots. That's the part I don't understand where you are coming from. So your basically already reading a series you don't want to already. That is why doesn't make sense. Why all of a sudden would they change what Tom and company were doing? I think people need to just relax and enjoy the ride.

Plus I believe Tom said they had two years of stories mapped out. That means whatever is coming was already approved. Who is to say that it is Nick saying to do things 100% and wasn't what Tom had been planning all along?

[Jester]

I think he means if they demanded or grabbed MORE control, but so far they've given Tom plenty of free reign. I think the mask change was a Nick mandate...

[Lampy]

the nick toon premiers later this month... and the idw series has been on for over a year. the idw has already established its own look and feel. if nick makes changes to the idw series that change that look and feel of this comic universe that will resemble closely to what the toon will be doing... then the idw series loses its charm for me. get it? when a large corporation like nickelodeon gives idw the freedom to write its series... then later takes that freedom back by giving them a list of things that they need to fulfill in order to match the nick's show... then the idw series loses its personality to me. it's like nick saying "here... don't forget don's gapped tooth... don't forget that krang is supposed to be a kraang alien. oh and don't forget to add a twist where the april turns into a 16 year old and don falls in love with her." it changes the way i see the series.

[Lampy]

I think he means if they demanded or grabbed MORE control, but so far they've given Tom plenty of free reign. I think the mask change was a Nick mandate...

YES!!! see... Jester understands what i'm getting at. sorry to double post by the way.

[CyberCubed]

What are you worrying about? The IDW universe is already established and its quite different than the Nick universe. They can't magically de-age April to 16 and change the Turtles from not being reincarnated.

[Cowabunga Carl]

See Cubed gets it.

[Jester]

See Cubed gets it.
Not...um...not the best argument, my friend. :P

[Lampy]

What are you worrying about? The IDW universe is already established and its quite different than the Nick universe. They can't magically de-age April to 16 and change the Turtles from not being reincarnated.

ok so maybe not the de-aging bit... and i'm not really worried. as this thread asks where my line in the sand for dropping the book is... is it not? well... that's one of mine and i thought i was just clarifying it. and it's not impossible for nick to take the reigns from tom.

[Powder]

You've made your point very well, I see where you're coming from and somewhat agree (though it'd be hard for me to put down a TMNT comic on any terms). Don't bother reiterating over and over if some people are blind to your stance. That's their own problem. You're entitled to your opinion.

[corvus]

Ch'rell, the mutanimals, Cajin leatherhead, 5th turtle(slash doesn't count), the turtles turning into dragons, cyber shredder, adding a ****-ton of mutants with stupid names, more reincarnated characters, punk frogs. Most of these things I'd probably give a chance for a bit but the one thing that'd really do it for me is hiring a manga type artist, I wouldn't be able to read that.

[Lampy]

You've made your point very well, I see where you're coming from and somewhat agree (though it'd be hard for me to put down a TMNT comic on any terms). Don't bother reiterating over and over if some people are blind to your stance. That's their own problem. You're entitled to your opinion.

thanks Powder. yea it would be very difficult for me to put it down as well. i've been a Turtles fan all my life... and it would be tough not reading it especially when you know there's an ongoing title out there.

[Toby Barrett]

I think he means if they demanded or grabbed MORE control, but so far they've given Tom plenty of free reign. I think the mask change was a Nick mandate...

Bobby mentioned that the mask changes was Tom's story idea, not Nickelodeon.

[frank_one]

We just hope Nickelodeon won't start to put MORE pressure and reduce the freedom of the artists involved. I guess this is what Lampy was trying to say and is what I meant with my first post:

As I said here (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...t=38258&page=5), Nickelodeon putting IDW under pressure to make the comics more similar to the show is where I would stop buying the comics.

I know that Nick HAS BEEN checking IDW's work since the beginning and that's ok, they are doing well letting IDW a good amount of freedom. Here's hoping they just don't start to suddenly get annoying. So far they've done well.