MIRAGE VOL.4 - ISSUE #10 [MAJOR SPOILER]

[PWDESAI]

Splinter.






I got the issue a day early, the very last page. Splinter is dead. To be Continued.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

If that's true, then I am officially pissed!

[Bowser]

How does he die? Wait, don't answer that, I'll find out for myself.

[PWDESAI]

Please, do not look at this picture unless you're ready for some intense spoilers. I'll try and scan the page where he actually falls and dies, but it may ruin the binding and i don't want to do that.
http://images.wheeljack.com/Comics/tmntpic1.jpg

[Nate]

Attack of the red X!!! .. I'd kind of like to see it to.. I won't be getting it for a week.. so I might as well get a look see now.

[PWDESAI]

Sorry bout that, i fixed the link, it's sad aint it :) err.... :(

[Nate]

Thank's bud :) .. but yes.. sad .. it sucks, definently an end of an era.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

OK, now I'm officially pissed! Splinter was my favorite character!

[The Stryker]

*william shatner moment*....................NOOOOO!!!!:( :( :(

im still gonna buy it....cause i bet this issue is gonna be worth something some day......poor splint splint.....*goes to make a tribute video*

[TheShredder]

Luke Skywalker "Nooooooooooooo!" They killed Splinter those bastards! Well I guess they had to live up to there volume two.........

[XERO]

It was bound to happen sooner or later. I saw it coming.

RIP, Splinter.

Now let's just hope they don't kill him the the cartoon. :o

[Dane E5R]

It's alright everyone, when you think about it, comic characters die all the time. But they continue to live on through the many different forms of media. Splinter will never be lost.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Yeah, he better damn well live on in other TMNT media! (well Shredder did, so no worrys there)

Hopefully Leo can occasionally contact his spirit in meditation so he's not gone from the comic forever.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

What really pisses me off is that the idea of Splinter dying has been talked about so much in the comics, cartoons, movies, etc. that actually killing him off is totally redundant!

[Caliosidhe]

*sighs* I don't think I can read the comic now ever again. Not having a Splinter would be.... just kinda, not right. o.O

[Leo656]

Machias is gonna cry. :(

[Nate]

No kidding, Leo.. can anyone hack Machias' computer so she doesn't have to see this... wait! I wasn't serious.. What's wrong with you?!?!

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

I was thinking about Machi, too. :cry:

[Kid Icarus]

Wow. I figured April...

Only a few hours till I can get this issue. And the DW #1. I'll never look at my splinter toy again though.

Reminds me of when I was little, and I burried a Splinter figure in the sandbox and never found him again :dead: .

[Leo656]

You did WHAT??? :o

This was all YOUR fault, you Voodoo Witch! :evil: :evil: :evil:

"Yes yes! A witch!"
"But how do we know?"
"Build a bridge out of 'im!"

Uh... heh... sorry...

[GK Punk]

pooor Machi.. she won't take this well...

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Reminds me of when I was little, and I burried a Splinter figure in the sandbox and never found him again .
You did WHAT??? :o

This was all YOUR fault, you Voodoo Witch! :evil: :evil: :evil:

And, besides voodoo is MY department!

[Cherubae]

While it may be sad that Splinter is "dead", it's hard for me to feel empathy when the artwork looks horrible. If it's such an important moment, Laird should of done the last panel of the comic, not Lawson.

[GermanTurtleManiac]

Hey could somebody please scan in the cover for #10?
I'm really dying to see it,'cause I will get the issue tomorrow!

[Raven]

While it may be sad that Splinter is "dead", it's hard for me to feel empathy when the artwork looks horrible. If it's such an important moment, Laird should of done the last panel of the comic, not Lawson.

ya that i agree with

[PWDESAI]

The cover is just the last page but painted by dooney.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Now Dooney, theres an artist!

[TheShredder]

It was bound to happen sooner or later. I saw it coming.

RIP, Splinter.

Now let's just hope they don't kill him the the cartoon. :o This takes place 13 years after the cartoon. So Splinter won't die unless the shows goes on for a real long time.

[Nate]

He wouldn't even die then.. it's a cartoon! Now, on to the art aspect. I am 100% satisfied with the art ... Lawson! w00t! Seriously, show some respect, he's been drawing/inking TMNT since Volume 1, and Laird obviously has no problem with it. To me, he's doing something right.

[Nate]

Hey could somebody please scan in the cover for #10?
I'm really dying to see it,'cause I will get the issue tomorrow!

From mycomicshop.com:

http://www.mycomicshop.com/webpics/BA5ZR010.JPG

[Machias Banshee]

...


I...oh god...I dont know what to say, I...oh god no...


give me some time...

*leaves*

[Kid Icarus]

You did WHAT??? :o

This was all YOUR fault, you Voodoo Witch! :evil: :evil: :evil:

"Yes yes! A witch!"
"But how do we know?"
"Build a bridge out of 'im!"

Uh... heh... sorry...

:wink: careful, I'll make your hair bright pink :lol: .

[Aztec General]

He wouldn't even die then.. it's a cartoon! Now, on to the art aspect. I am 100% satisfied with the art ... Lawson! w00t! Seriously, show some respect, he's been drawing/inking TMNT since Volume 1, and Laird obviously has no problem with it. To me, he's doing something right.

Well he didn't do much in vol 1, he really started with vol 2 and 4
and he does suck.


Return to New York, #28, City At War, Tales of the TMNT? That's not much?

If you don't like his style than stopping reading it. Lawson has been drawing TMNT for some time and I think he's quite good. If you don't like it fine, but you have no idea what you're talking about if you think the man who pencilled the above Mirage storylines "sucks".

[Nate]

THANK YOU!

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

...


I...oh god...I dont know what to say, I...oh god no...


give me some time...

*leaves*
It's OK Machi :cry: **pats Machi's shoulders in an attempt to comfort the Ravishing Reptile**

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Can I help it if I feel that Lawson's skills have grown dull?

[Nturtle]

*phew* That is sad, Splinter is deffinitely my favorite character too :( :cry:

But I have to agree with some people here that that last panel is really badly drawn. i would like to see Laird do a little more, he doesn't seem to be doing to much at all as of late.

[PWDESAI]

Just cuz the guy sucks at drawing i should stop buying it? THAT IS THE MOST RETARDED THING I HAVE HEARD. I wouldn't be surprised if you were that little retard boy running in that pic. Ok ok I'm sorry I sorta got pissed because of your ignorance. Drawing is not the only thing in a comic book. The storyline is as important if not more.

BTW HE DID NOT WRITE THEM. What made those storylines good was the WRITING! He still sucks at drawing, and tons of people agree with me. That's why the dreamwave book will probably sell better.

[Stefano]

did anyone else notice the rat king is in the room right before splinter dies

[Aztec General]

BTW HE DID NOT WRITE THEM. What made those storylines good was the WRITING! He still sucks at drawing, and tons of people agree with me. That's why the dreamwave book will probably sell better.

I'll choose to ignore your previous immature comments.

Are you saying that the art in Return to New York, City At War, #28, etc. "sucks"? Because if you think so then I don't know what to tell you.

I do agree that the writing is THE most important part of any comic. Thus far the writing for Vol. 4 has been excellent as well.

At any rate, let's get back on topic. A major character has died, and that is far more worthy of discussion. My thoughts: It's always a shame to see a great character die, but sometimes things like this are important to move a story along. It also adds a sense of realism to the events. Besides, as we all know Splinter was pretty old (especially in this series), and his death was predicted in Vol. 2. Let's also not forget that this is the Mirage TMNT and there has violence and death with regularity in this series.

Now for something that I can't believe that no one (at least from what I remember) has mentioned: what was the Rat King's role? Was he just guiding Splinter to the "other side"? Evil magic? Revenge? Hmm..... could be interesting.

[Stefano]

and as i said above the rat king did apear before splinter if you look

[Nate]

Some of Lawson's terrible work on the Return To New York series

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/19/1902.jpg
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/20/2002.jpg
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/21/2101.jpg
Lawson sucks? You've got to be kidding me.

[xZAOx]

his humans suck these days IMO. i like everything else. i hope we see some action some day =/.

and i totally called splinter dying! hah! (check that other thread)

but as we all saw rat king was there. and rat king has spoken to splinter from his grave before. so i dont think its 100% the end of splinter, whether hes physically dead or not.

also, remember we still have baxter who found out time travel. i still think that will be going somewhere.

[PWDESAI]

He wasn't as bad for return to new york, but he was still bad. Compare his art to anyone else's, his just doesn't cut it. He was much better back in the day I agree, but modern days, he sucks. Please stop trying to force your opinions on me. I notice you like it fine, I don't, leave it at that.

[donnyman444]

splinter RIP :cry:

[Leo656]

((Hugs Machias)) Awww... :(

I've gone on record with my opinion of Lawson: He's not good. His TMNT are fine, he excels at that, but as far as everything else he's just not good. Call it "stylized", call it whatever you want, it still looks more like fan art than something someone got paid to do. Yes, he may have had a hand in some of the best TMNT Mirage stories ever (and his art WAS much better back then, IMO), but as was said, that doesn't mean HE made those stories great. I've been reading comics for almost 20 years and I've seen plenty of great stories with lackluster art. Do I respect him for being part of the TMNT "Legacy"? Yeah, sure, but I still don't like his art, and I persist in thinking that if Mirage didn't exist, Lawson wouldn't have a job drawing comics. Disagree if you want, we all have our opinions. But nobody should attack someone for saying Lawson's art sucks, just like nobody should attack anyone else for saying they like Lawson's art.

Nobody should also drop a book they like just because they don't like the art... well, unless the art is that much of an issue for them. I know what to expect when I buy an issue of TMNT from Mirage: Decent story, bad art. If I was *expecting* Lawson to draw like Jim Lee or Dan Jurgens or Ed Benes, maybe I'd be disappointed. But he draws like Lawson, so I know what to expect going in. ((Shrug))

I'll miss Splinter... but I kind of expected it. So much speculation about it for so long.... bound to happen sooner or later. Still... that sucks. :(

[Peanut]

I'm real sad now. I loved Splinter. Now he's gone. I just hope that there are ways for the turtles to contact him in the afterlife. I'm really curious to see what the Rat King had to do with it.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

I agree withe Leo and Mike.

[Voltron]

HE'S DEAD? WHAT POINT IS THERE TO LIFE ANYMORE? If you need me I'll be sobbing in the dark....

[Nturtle]

The rat king being there adds a whole new creepyness factor to it, the rat king is never fully explained, very very weird character...

[donnyman444]

does splinter just die from old age or what? it realy doesnt tell u

[Kid Icarus]

does splinter just die from old age or what? it realy doesnt tell u I think it was old age.

[Aztec General]

The rat king being there adds a whole new creepyness factor to it, the rat king is never fully explained, very very weird character...

I agree completely. That's probably why I like his character so much.

[Donatello 3:16]

It was bound to happen sooner or later. I saw it coming.

RIP, Splinter.

Now let's just hope they don't kill him the the cartoon. :o This takes place 13 years after the cartoon.


heh guess there not Teenage anymore :sick:

i can't believe splinter died :cry:

[Peanut]

I'm pretty sure it was a heart attack. That's what it looked like anyways.

[lhb412]

As much as it saddens me I knew this is what would happen, Splinter was very old and his character really wasn't needed scince he had taught the TMNT everything.

[Nate]

Is there anyway someone could post the page where he falls? I'd really appriciate it.. I ordered it, but it won't even get shipped until the 17th.

[TheShredder]

Why is everone making souch a big deal about his death? He won't appear in Mirage Volume Four so what!? We'll still see him in the in Cartoon and Dreamwave comic.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Why is everone making souch a big deal about his death? He won't appear in Mirage Volume Four so what!? We'll still see him in the in Cartoon and Dreamwave comic.But that's not as canon as the Mirage comic which is the MAIN TMNT universe!

[Leo656]

Well... to be fair, Chewbacca is technically dead in the Star Wars universe (his death was written in one of the novels) but since there are so many "untold tales" within the Star Wars universe, him being dead doesn't really mean anything all that important.

Not to make light of it, but this is kind of the same way... I mean, "Tales of the TMNT" is supposedly coming out again soon, and you can bet Splinter'll be in that book. His death doesn't mean we'll necessarily get less Splinter, even as far as "canon" is concerned. I mean, about 15 years of stories to tell between Vol 2 and Vol 4? There's a lot of Splinter in there, I'd wager. Basically all this does is establish a set point of when/how he died within the Mirage TMNT timeline.

Oh god... I made like Cochran and used the "Chewbacca Defense"....

Anyway.. it does suck though. I had a strong feeling it'd be April, thinking that Splinter would be too obvious. It just goes to show you: never think, it'll bite you in the rear.

Sigh. It's not how I would've pictured him going out, either.... :(

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Yeah but at least Chewbacca didn't die in the movies. That's what this is like.

And yeah, Splinter should have gone down fighting! If at all.

[ThirdMarioBro]

HE'S DEAD? WHAT POINT IS THERE TO LIFE ANYMORE? If you need me I'll be sobbing in the dark....

I'll be there with ya buddy. This feels like a knife in the neck. I can't believe he's really gone. Life seems so empty now. How could they do this. I hope this new animated series lasts a long time now, because it's the only place that has our beloved Master Splinter. IF THEY EVER (and I know we're a long way from it) KILL SPLINTER IN THE SHOW THEY WILL PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes cartoon characters can die. Poor Splinter. This is a dark day, truely it is.

[MzTheInsomniac]

anyone notice the rat king in the death scene

[Leo656]

Yup.

[Stefano]

anyone notice the rat king in the death scene
I already mentioned it

[Peanut]

I'm creating a black arm band with an S on.

[VeryLaZ]

Does anyone know what the significance of the Rat King was? Just now getting into the comics and only following the old cartoon, I was a bit puzzled by this, is he a ghos or something, trying to warn splinter?

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Rat King appeared as a ghost in "City at War" and saved Splinter's life. He's kinda like a guardian angel for him. A creepy one though.

[DJRuden]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but what I thought was as interesting at the rat king thing, was how it kept panning out and came full circle by showing the cat eating the bird that splinter fed earlier.
People get down on Lawsons art, but I thought that was really spectacular how he did that.

[EZweasel]

I dont believe splinter is actually dead. its to be continued. Splinter will leave on . dont worry

[Donatello 3:16]

what is that thing in don's (i think) hand it looks like a wierd toothpick.

[HorseTechie]

what is that thing in don's (i think) hand it looks like a wierd toothpick.
Heh... I was wondering what the heck that was too. Until I read al the way through the comic. It's a (cell?) phone. It's also supposed to be Leo holding it, since he recieved the news first. :wink:


Wow... I feel silly now for thinking it would be a human, like April, that dies. I even believed what Laird said in an email a year or so ago that he planned to keep Splinter around.

But I guess I should have heeded the forwarnings (like in Mirage Vol. 2). The biggest clue, was in the CGI clips. Remember those? Where they had Splinter's body on a slab with candles all around, and Leo paying him his respects? I'm not that upset witrh his death... not yet at least. Strange. I guess I read on too many fanfic where he had passed on, so that this doesn't strike me hard.

I do like the set up to that moment. The simplance of the 'circle of life'. And the ghost of the Rat King acting as Splinter's Grim Reaper... or spiritual guardian, to take him away.

His body is no more.. but then I do wonder if Splinter will still be around in spirit. In your classic Obi Wan Kenobi way. Another friend of mine who read the comic, thought maybe Splinter was giving the Turtles and the Turtlebots a hand during April's darkest hour. Like one life was lost so another could be spared. Deep...

The plot also thickens with this rather familar terrorist/Xmen plot device forming against the aliens. Hrmmm..

Now.. about all this with Lawson's art 'sucking muck', shesh. Can it, will yah? Sure, he may not draw beautifully like Frank Miller, Jack Kirby, or Stan Lee, but what style he does have is quite unique. In a Picasso sort of way. Of course, not everyone likes Picasso's style, but it is still note worthy enough to be considered fine art. You try to draw people in action in fifty different poses with no references to go by, and you'll realize it's a lot harder that it seems. Reason number one I'm staying away from the comic book business!

I'm sure many you have the comic now have read the litlte segment from Lawson in regards to his style. Simply put, he said he WANTS to draw that way. I also will admit my heart went out for Lawson when he said that everyone hated him. *tsk* The gall of some fans to 'diss' him so much that it leaves him with that impression.

[EDIT - I was referring to real dissing of Lawson's art, by saying it "SUCKED" along with other rude/derogatory ways of expressing how bad it is. I don't mind the politely stated opinions about how bad his art is. ]

[PWDESAI]

Excuse me, you are a mod, you should know by now that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You of all people should understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinon. In my opinion, his art SUCKS, it's barely even art. I understand what the man feels, if he feels so bad about it he'll change it, or leave. Obviously he doesn't feel that bad.

Regarding everything as canon, in my opinion this book is just to tell Peter's way, just because he is the creator doesn't make this "100% official" I agree the old mirage comics are, but he doesn't even have Eastman anymore. I hate all this alien garbage, so I just like to stick to the Cartoon and the Dreamwave book. I would also like to note that both sell much better than this comic. I understand other people's opinions, and they can keep them, but these are my own and unless krang comes in here and deletes or edits my post, I'm allowed to say them.

[Leo656]

Well, as one of the people who gets reamed for criticizing Lawson's art the most, I feel compelled to reply to that.

For one, I don't dislike the guy on any personal level.

Secondly, as I've said before, if you take a position where your creative endeavors are on display for all to see, and you can't handle people telling you they don't like it, well, then, you're in the wrong business. Criticizing someone's art isn't "gall", it's called "free speech" and "letting one's opinions be known."

Third, it's all well and good that he wants to draw that way. But again, if people don't like it, and they say so, then he has to be prepared to deal with criticism. I mean, if that hurts his feelings that's a shame, but that's the nature of the beast.

Fourth... look, I just have to say this. People defending Lawson's art by saying "he's been the artist on TMNT since the beginning, therefore he's the best and deserves to be on the book now"... I don't accept that. Joe Shuster was one of Superman's co-creators and the original penciller for the series, but when better artists became available, Shuster stepped aside because, in all honesty, even though he created the character, his art was crude even by the standards of the time. To me, making the book the best it can possibly be in ALL areas (story AND art) should be more important than patting someone on the back for something they did years ago. Lawson may be the "definitive" Mirage TMNT artist to many people, but then again, how many regular pencillers did Mirage have woking on the book back then?

I'll compare Lawson to two other much-loved creative talents within the industry: John Byrne and Dan Jurgens. Byrne's worked on some of the most famous and popular characters in history, with runs on Superman, X-Men, Fantastic 4, Wonder Woman, and many others. Dan Jurgens can say the same, having done art and writing for Superman, Justice League, G.I. Joe (current series), Tomb Raider, Thor, Spider-Man, Captain America, and the Marvel vs DC mini-series of a few years back. Now, both of these guys have been called "the definitive artist/writer" for many of the books they've worked on for one simple reason: talent. They are, quite simply, two of the best in the industry, bar none. Maybe I'm just spoiled, but when John Byrne draws Superman, it looks like Superman. When he draws Batman, it looks like Batman. And when he draws Clark Kent and Jimmy Olsen standing next to each other, I can tell who is who.

So imagine how much it hurts my eyes trying to tell the human characters apart in Vol 4, considering that almost all of them look exactly alike. In a black and white book, the penciller's job is even more important because he doesn't have the benefit of various inks and colors as a "safety net". That said, maybe I'd appreciate Lawson's current style better if it were in color. And I say current style because to me, like many others have said, I think his art was better years ago.

I will grant that he draws the turtles themselves quite well, but that area is about the only place he succeeds. In that case, I don't see how anyone could say he was prolific as a penciller. To bring up Jurgens again, the reason DC selected him to draw the DC/Marvel book was because the guy, quite simply, can draw anything and anyone and do it WELL. That's why his resume is so extensive. Say that Lawson's style is "unique" all you want, but in closeups I have a hard time telling Casey and April apart, and that's just plain bad.

In my personal opinion, I think the best thing to do would be make Lawson the promotional artist for the TMNT, playing to his strengths (drawing the turtles themselves) and eliminating his weaknesses (drawing everyone else). That way he wouldn't be out of the TMNT "loop", and someone with a little bit wider range and a cleaner style could take over the main penciling chores.

Look, I know I'm gonna catch flak for this, but my criticism of Lawson isn't because of anything personal, it's simply because I want the TMNT book to succeed. I want the widest possible audience to read it, like it, and keep reading it, and that won't happen as long as Mirage does nothing but cater to their niche fanbase and ignore everyone else. Quite simply, the number of people (and I mean people in general, not just TMNT fans) who like Lawson's art is a much smaller number than the number of people who dislike it. Most people aren't very familiar with Jim Lawson, his history with the TMNT, or his style, and therefore are a little less forgiving. I, myself, know many people who are TMNT fans who do NOT buy the new book because of the fact they just don't like the art. Comics ARE a visual medium, relying as much on art as script to tell a story, and both art AND story should be as good as they can be. They aren't right now, and it does make a difference.

That's all I really have to say at this point, and I strongly suggest that any replies to this post or any further comments about Lawson in general should be made in a new thread. That's probably a good idea anyway, since it'll keep things from getting any further OT in here and I just know how people hate that.

[PWDESAI]

I agree with you, Comics are a visual medium, if they didn't rely on good artistry they would be novels or something else.

I can't say I like his turtles either. Compare issue #1 cover to any other cover not drawn and then painted by michael dooney. Dooney has some major talent, but not even he can fix the crap Lawson puts out. I don't care if anyone here flames me or dislikes me for saying it, but Lawson's art sucks. I don't know him on a personal level, he coule be a nice guy, maybe I would keep these comments to myself, but I can't and I won't.

[Keno]

I think Splinter should stay dead, because well, it was his time. But I wouldnt mind if they had him as a spirit guiding them somehow.

I honestly never noticed the art until everyone started bringing it up. I dont really mind it. thats his style and i accept it, its not gonna change

O yah, and the Nano TurtleBots were kinda cute!

[Leo656]

I first noticed Lawson when he drew a few early issues of "TMNT Adventures" for Archie. I had no idea about Mirage, no idea who Lawson was, but even at the age of 7 I thought the art was bad and was upset by the absence of the regular penciller. ((shrug))

[TheShredder]

What I was trying to say was he may be dead in the Mirage Universe. But we'll still see him in other TMNT media so he's not gone.

[PWDESAI]

I first noticed Lawson when he drew a few early issues of "TMNT Adventures" for Archie. I had no idea about Mirage, no idea who Lawson was, but even at the age of 7 I thought the art was bad and was upset by the absence of the regular penciller. ((shrug))


That's exactly how I felt, especially the horrible movie adaption he did.

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

Well Lawson did do some crappy artwork in the Archie series but alot of his old Mirage work is fine, like Return to NY and Volume 2. Also those colored pencil pinups are breathtaking. But, his Volume 4 work just isn't that great. Not great at all.

Back on Topic: I do like the idea of Splinter as a spirit guide. That would be a decent direction after this.

[PWDESAI]

Lawson was not good for volume 2, for return to new york he was decent tho. I don't remember city at war to well, and I don't bother to read it again, so I'll just say that was fine since I didn't really make a note of how bad it was in my mind :)

[ThirdMarioBro]

I think Splinter should stay dead, because well, it was his time. But I wouldnt mind if they had him as a spirit guiding them somehow.

I honestly never noticed the art until everyone started bringing it up. I dont really mind it. thats his style and i accept it, its not gonna change

O yah, and the Nano TurtleBots were kinda cute!

How could you say such a thing!?! :o :evil: :o Splinter has been there from day one, and it's going to be really different without him.

[Nate]

I'm not going to defend Lawson, or my opinions anymore, I will just say that I not only appriciate, but enjoy all of his work.. and that is my opinion.

[Leo656]

You're right, it is your opinion and you're entitled to it. And I tried really hard to word my opinion as honestly and politely as possible.

That way I know that if anyone replies with some rude, barely literate and profane response, it'll be because they're dumb and incapable of debating or disagreeing in an intelligent manner.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and people CAN disagree without saying things like "OMG YOU ARE RETRDED! LAWSON RULZ/SUX! UR A *** YOU SHOLDNT EVEN READ TMNT!"

I really, REALLY hate that stuff.

[Nate]

Yes you did put it clearly, and politely.

[Leo656]

I always try to. I mean, it's a given people don't always agree. But why is it that so often around here people turn disagreements into arguments? Like the whole "new cartoon/old cartoon" thing. Just because people disagree doesn't mean people have to check their rationale at the door and say things that are unnecessary.

I mean, you obviously like Lawson's art... and I hate it. But I don't hate you, or think you're stupid, or that your opinions are stupid... meh.

Too much hostility lately. We need more rainbows and stuff. And some of GK's brownies. :evilgrin:

[Nturtle]

*snaps his fingers and brownies rain from the sky*

Is that better? :D

I'm gonna be under the pyramid, if ya need me just holler... :sleep:

[Roseangelo]

I have no problem with the concept of Splinter dying. I've been prepared for that for years. But as of right now I do not like how/when it happened. I think it's gonna take issue #11 and maybe a couple more before I settle with what I really think about all this.

[HorseTechie]

*big sai*

Let me put it this way... I'm not ratting on you guys about viewing your opinion about Lawson's art, if you do so in a polite manner.

I'm getting sick of the fact it's repeated over and over and over every time this particular comic is mentioned. I get the point... everyone else here on the forums got the point.

And Lawson and Laird definately got the point.

So let it up already... I'm getting tired of seeing the old fact: that you guys can stand Lawson's art, and then you made a rude scene about it. I'm sure a bunch of others feel the same way now.

I rather see more discussion about the new topics. The new changes. Deceased rats. Terrist attacks.

Not how many times we hafta beat the dead horse.

[Nturtle]

Y'know, I would like to see dan Berger do some more work on the new comics!! I really like his art style!

[PWDESAI]

Y'know, I would like to see dan Berger do some more work on the new comics!! I really like his art style!

Nturtle you're a fun person to talk with. Horsetechie I agree I'm sorry if it's been talked baout before, but I sorta took 2-3 months of barely posting here and didn't know what was going on. I totally agree Nturtle, have you read gutwallow? I jsut reread half of volume one yesterday, very nice artwork indeed.

[Leo656]

Duly noted... but given the mood I'm in the past couple days I honestly can't be bothered to care. (Not gonna go into it, HT you know why).

Not to sound like a jerk or anything.

[SlayerX]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! the old rat finally kicked the bucket. Here's what he probably looks like now

HAHAHAHAA im so glad hes FINALLY dead!

http://www.freewebs.com/triceraton/splinterdead.JPG

Definitly an improvement from previous looks!

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!
EVERYBODY!
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!

[mod edit - the rest of the posts that ensued after this were deleted. Please don't post anymore like this. ]

[Skeletoncrew]

*sigh*

I knew it was going to be Splinter. April was too obvious, and Splinter hasn't been involved enough in the new volume to be indispensible.

*sob*

So I'll admit it, even knowing that it would be him...I cried when I read my comic today. :cry:

I wonder if we'll have some afterlife Splinter scenes in the next? He seemed very distressed to be leaving his sons. If you're the sort who believes in ghosts and hauntings, I think you'll agree that he'd be a prime candidate for hanging around a bit after death. The presence of the Rat King (ghost) is very interesting as well. He did save Splinter once, though Splinter didn't like having to stoop to eatting his fellow rats to live.

[PWDESAI]

Oh my god, I am sorry Techie, I now feel your pain. These people are the most immature I have ever met. And I thought I was bad :roll:

Anyways, this was the first time I had brought up the subject of Lawson's art being crappy, I never once said it before, unless it was a minor side note. I hardly see why this is *going on and on and on*


Guys, just play nice, be happy, and grow up.

[Nturtle]

Nturtle you're a fun person to talk with. Horsetechie I agree I'm sorry if it's been talked baout before, but I sorta took 2-3 months of barely posting here and didn't know what was going on. I totally agree Nturtle, have you read gutwallow? I jsut reread half of volume one yesterday, very nice artwork indeed.

Thanks dude :P

I haven't read much of Gutwallow, just the first issue and a few pictures, though I thought it was preety good!! I like the comic strips he made a lot, and the way he does the turtles facial expressions is very unique!

[impetus]

Remember Donatello's vision in V2 #1 ?

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impetusdev/tmntdonsvision.jpg
(if it does not show up, drag it into your addy bar)

Well, now it makes sense. With aliens on earth, that strange flying car/ship now makes sense.

[Stefano]

what does the flying car have to do with anything?

[xZAOx]

the left page is donatello's vision, it was showing that it was in the future. the right picture was current day vol. 2, with him talking to splinter.

laird has said before that vol. 4 plays off some ideas they were tossing around for vol. 2, so i personally think this will tie heavily in with all the foreshadowing in vol. 2 issue 1.

the flying car makes sense, and i think splinter isnt 100% dead yet. how's this for a twist:

the rat king spirit invades splinter's body, then one of the turtles has to kill splinter to save splinter's soul. that would explain the first page, as well as his appearance right before splinter died. it was also tie in with 'city at war', b/c the rat king and splinter have a strong pyscic (sp?) history since that (or at least you could say he did) and rat king decided now was his turn to be the predator, and take over his body.

well, you heard it hear first! im the ultra mega plot figurer-outer guy!

but hey, it could happen! ;-)

[Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5]

I wonder if we'll have some afterlife Splinter scenes in the next? He seemed very distressed to be leaving his sons. If you're the sort who believes in ghosts and hauntings, I think you'll agree that he'd be a prime candidate for hanging around a bit after death. The presence of the Rat King (ghost) is very interesting as well. He did save Splinter once, though Splinter didn't like having to stoop to eatting his fellow rats to live.That's about what I'm hoping, too.

the rat king spirit invades splinter's body, then one of the turtles has to kill splinter to save splinter's soul. that would explain the first page, as well as his appearance right before splinter died. it was also tie in with 'city at war', b/c the rat king and splinter have a strong psyschic history since that (or at least you could say he did) and rat king decided now was his turn to be the predator, and take over his body.
Hey, I thought of the "Splinter Possesed by a ghost" thing before you did.

BTW doesn't Donatello with the oriental straw hat look cool?

[splint]

there has to be more with the cat then we are able to see sofar.

[Raven]

doesn't Donatello with the oriental straw hat look cool?

they should draw him like that more

[Splinter]

I haven't been following the Mirage Comics at all, but this is a very somber turn of events. Sure, we knew it had to happen at some point. But it's still a massive blow to all Splinter fans. :cry: :(

*Vintage Splinter cues up "What a Wonderful World" by Louie Armstrong*

[HorseTechie]

Remember Donatello's vision in V2 #1 ?

Yah, yah! I mentioned that too in my post. But... hrmm, it somehow got overlooked.

But it does make sense to me. The flying car can be one of the Utrom/alien crafts.

[TheShredder]

I don't think Splinters coming back. They made a big deal about "someone" dying. I think this death is permanent!

[darthsmozers]

I didn't notice the Rat King in the background under after I flipped through it again. Eerie :sick:

[Nate]

doesn't Donatello with the oriental straw hat look cool?

they should draw him like that more

I'm drawing alternate reality looks for all of the turtles and my Don is wearing one of those things.

[impetus]

I really hope #11 has those panels (from Don's vision). The same exact panels but redrawn to fit the new look would be great. In fact, I will probably be disappointed if it happens any differently. Only mildly, but disappointed nonetheless. :P

And Don, if not all the TMNT, better be in Chihaya in the next ish. OK, I'm done demanding. :lol: But it would be great if those V2 #1 questions were finally answered. :D

[Leo656]

I doubt it. Comic book continuity aint what it used to be. That plot point from Vol 2 mighta been forgotten by now. ((Shrug)) Just habve to wait and see I guess.

[xZAOx]

I doubt it. Comic book continuity aint what it used to be. That plot point from Vol 2 mighta been forgotten by now. ((Shrug)) Just habve to wait and see I guess.

personally, i really strongly hope, and i feel pretty good, that it will carry over. on the status of vol. 2 visions, a couple of things have been said. at one point it was said that the things shown were just visions, which may or may not come to pass. and recently on vol. 4, laird has said that hes using some ideas they had planned for vol. 2. so its not like he has forgotten vol. 2, and laird is an excellent story writer when plot is concerned, and with the lack of action, by god the story better be continous as hell! :)

[Nturtle]

I'm wondering how they will explain the bloody Splinter vision....

[darthsmozers]

what is this bloody image you speak of :-?

[ironhelix]

Which series is this? Doesn't sound like it's old...

[The Stryker]

i think this is the bloody pic of which you speak of

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/stryker0/Splint_dream.jpg

i thought it was gonna be linked with raph's dream....although the rat king theory might come into play (remember that dream monster form of the rat king?)

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/stryker0/Raph_dream.jpg

seeeeee? a pretty big rat

[Nate]

I think (like others have said) that The Rat King will enhabbit Splinters body.. and then Raph will kill him, like with the rat monster .. thing.

[The Turtle Titan]

why splinter damnit! why didnt they just kill-off April....i mean no one really likes her anyway...Splinter.......i cant belive it.......what are the turtles without splinter...soon Rapheal will be going on crazy rampage.......Don will get so involved in his inventions he will not know whats real outside his computer screen....leo will...well leo will be really sad.....Michelangelo will cry!......ahhhhh whats the world coming to!

[Machias Banshee]

Guys, knock it off, Please...


God, I cant believe he's not there anymore...this is so strange...

*sniffs*

I"m making myself a new sig piece. its from a story Terran and I am doing currently via email, but I think it will be something good...


I'll miss you Splinter. I only hope that you DO return in your wonderful mystical ways....

[Jephael]

Why didnt they just kill-off April....i mean no one really likes her anyway...!

I know I'm gonna miss Splinter alot, but please don't go dissing April, Casey, Robyn, Shadow or any other of the secondary characters.

[tormentedvagrant]

First, In this time of mourning, Splinter will be missed, a few lines of scilence...
....
...
..
.
I dont believe that the rat king will inhabit splinters body and get killed by Raph. It just seems too ludicrist, the rat king pushed splinter to a point where his will was bent 180 degrees, giving him the strength to survive. I thimk that we saw the rat king in the back ground for one of two reasons, the most unambigus being, he was there to provide safe passage to the next level as he was the teacher when the master became the student. This would cause for no further or very little mention of this. Then there is the more imaginative possability, He was there to provide his sprit with safe harbor, to guide him and what not, leading to a possability for his to return in some way or form. Only time will tell what only Big L and a few seclect others know........
RIP Master Splinter........... for now

[tormentedvagrant]

aww come on....... 8) we just love our turtles, its only an act of respect for the charecters that have been created so long ago.

[HorseTechie]

Well, it's like this. Splinter had become an icon almost ofthe Turtles. Like April and Casey, pizza, and NYC.

Sure, it's JUST a comic, but it was an awesome comic! I am not deeply moved by this, but I still can understand why some people are. And I'll respect that for them. So please, heed Machias warning to not let this also turn into another messy argument.

Thank you.

[Splinter]

True, the art is pretty horrible. And proffessional artists I have shown it to say it looks like it was done by a 10 year old. But still, the point of the thread is talking about the death of a beloved character. Not how terrible the art is. That's a subject for another thread. :)

[impetus]

everyone keep in mind that as far as we know the Rat King is dead, so he may be a ghost or something.

[Splinter]

everyone keep in mind that as far as we know the Rat King is dead, so he may be a ghost or something.
Yeah he's dead. Leonardo killed him with a shuriken and then Splinter found his body when he broke his leg. That was the same time he first encountered the spirit of the deceased Rat King, who helped/forced him to struggle to survive. Also made him eat a rat to stave off hunger. So he's either back for some nefarious purpose, or to help guide Splinter in the afterlife. :)

[ironhelix]

I will ask one more time... What series is this? It doesn't seem like it's a reprint of any old books because I don't remember Splinter ever dying.

[Leo656]

Splinter just died in the issue that came out last week, Mirage Vol. 4 #10.

[Peanut]

Everyone needs to settle down and discuss in a MATURE manner or the big man up stairs *here's a hint: he's little and pink* just might slam his foot down on some of you for arguing so much.

[impetus]

vintage, I think you're right about him being dead but I very much doubt Leo killed him. In the ish (Tales #4) it show the shuriken hitting him, but the last page show the Rat King sitting with all the rats around him, very much alive.

[tormentedvagrant]

Krangs android body has feet! :D Well now everyone, cant we all just get along? I always wanted to say a line like that. Back to splinter, he will be missed, any guesses as to the cause? Just old age? a heart attack? evil? whats your oppinion (all)?

[darthsmozers]

Maybe if everyone agrees to drop it....

:dead:

ANYWAYS, back on topic yet again (and please note the PM button after every post - its there for a reason.)


I'm headed to the comic store tomorrow, hoping to pick up ANY back issues of the old series. (v1,2, and 3.) I only have...3 of them LOL.

:P

When does issue 11 come out....two months from now? or will there be a delay due to 10 being double sized? and thank goodness 10 and 11 were combined into just 10, or else 10 would have been pretty boring alone...

Oh, yeah...happy 200th post for me

:D

[Nate]

My Vol 4 #10, and DW #1 shipped today! 3-5 more days :D

[Krang]

The next person who continues the argument in this thread will get a warning. If you want to continue arguing, keep it off the forums.


[mod edit - all the arguments prior to this post are now deleted. ~HT ]

[darthsmozers]

Its sad the Turtles weren't there when he died :(

[MzTheInsomniac]

i bet the turtles are happy

[Splinter]

i bet the turtles are happy
:roll: Oh, ha ha. Yeah, I'm sure that they are pleased as punch. The only father that they have ever known for 20+ years. One that cared enough to raise them from babies. And wanted to ensure they survived in the dangerous world out there. Especially after not being there to even be with him when he died, so that they could say goodbye. Yes, I'm sure they are overjoyed with happiness. :roll:

[darthsmozers]

Yeah Mz, that was an odd comment.

VintageSplinter, I agree. Now, it could very well be a burden on their minds...or a guilt April will carry knowing because of her, Splinter had no family nearby when he collapsed and died :(

[Machias Banshee]

*sigh* Losing their father....Its so sad. I just hope that Splinter doesnt fully leave. Maybe like a bunch have people have said, maybe He'll come and speak to the turtles, maybe tell them he'll always be there, watching over them, and all that stuff...

[Jephael]

I don't think April would feel guilty just because her ailment drew everyone away from Northampton. She may however feel bad that she survived while another beloved member just died.

[darthsmozers]

true..

[Peanut]

Did anyone else just stop and stare at the page where Splinter was laying on the floor? I knew someone was going to pop off and I prepared myself for it.. I promised I wouldn't be moved TOO much, but it didn't work. I just kinda felt sad...poor Splinter. I stared at that page for at least 10 minutes.

[impetus]

what I wonder is why he dropped in front of the open door where he could be seen?

[Dane E5R]

what I wonder is why he dropped in front of the open door where he could be seen?


Yea..Because, y'know, he could've chosen where he wanted to die..

Sorry for the sarcasm, but dang.

[XERO]

Could someone post that picture of Splinter dying, please?

Thanks

[impetus]

Elite5Raph, if you've read the book you know that he started out in the kitchen, started to get weak then took several steps OUT OF THE KITCHEN before falling and dying right in front of the door.... so to answer your unnecessarily sarcastic comment, YES, he could have. You HAVE read it, right? If so, then you know the question makes sense. If not... I won't even go into that.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but dang.

Now my theory, to answer my own question is that perhaps he meant to close the door. Or perhaps in his shock he wasn't really thinking (likely).

[Jephael]

I can't help though but wonder what was going on in Splinter's mind when it hit him. His last words: "My sons!"

I gotta show this issue to my cousin Wendy. She used to be so frightened of Splinter when the original film first came out. This might creep her out even more now.

[Splinter]

I can't help though but wonder what was going on in Splinter's mind when it hit him. His last words: "My sons!"
I'm going to go with the standpoint that he was afraid to leave them alone. Or that he was wishing that they were here before he died. Or maybe it was some part of Splinter, wanting to warn his son's about somthing. Especially if the Rat King's apperance has a more sinister reason. Like what has been discussed before in the thread. :)

[Dane E5R]

Elite5Raph, if you've read the book you know that he started out in the kitchen, started to get weak then took several steps OUT OF THE KITCHEN before falling and dying right in front of the door.... so to answer your unnecessarily sarcastic comment, YES, he could have. You HAVE read it, right? If so, then you know the question makes sense. If not... I won't even go into that.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but dang.

Now my theory, to answer my own question is that perhaps he meant to close the door. Or perhaps in his shock he wasn't really thinking (likely).


Dude, I don't want to start another fight here, but no, Splinter could not pinpoint the exact moment that he was gonna die. You honestly think he thought "The front door! That looks like a good place to die! I'M ON IT!" NO. I can guarantee it. It's just like when people complain that Uncle Ben's last words were "Peter, Peter" in the Spider-Man movie. Alright? Right.

[impetus]

alrighty! :wink:

[TheShredder]

I still can't belive they killed off Splinter! I mean a rat that somehow learned nitjitsu from watching some guy! Splinter He taught them to be Ninja teens!

[impetus]

You honestly think he thought "The front door! That looks like a good place to die! I'M ON IT!"
No - which is exactly my point. You misinterpreted my question, which, if it was worded awkwardly, I apologize for. All I'm saying is, what might have caused him to go to the door (Other than the camera zooming out to the cat) ?

[HorseTechie]

I have yet no answer for that. Maybe he was hoping he could find the others (those retired superhero dudes) for help?

[Donatello02]

I tihnk it would have been better if Splinter died in battle and not just by some stroke.

[Ghidorah2000]

I tihnk it would have been better if Splinter died in battle and not just by some stroke.

I was thinking the same thing. But eh. What are we gonna do about it now?

[Nate]

As I mentioned in another thread, he did just take a sip of his tea. Would I be crazy to think it may have been poisoned... by Rat King, mabey?

[Machias Banshee]

*using her powers of ESP, predicts that there will be a flood of angry/sad/homicidal/suicidal fanletters sent to Peter as to WHY he killed Splinter like this.*

[Nate]

I hope not, Mirage is getting enough ******** from "fans" as it is, be it about Laird's replies, or Lawsons style. Just shut the hell up people. If I were Laird, I'd've packed up my ****, and said good bye, if half the "fans" don't even like the stuff, which is the prevaling theme of at least the Turtle Tracks.

[Jephael]

I gotta agree with you on that, dude. It sickens me that people have to be so negative about this stuff, that it drives me to be more and more posative about how much I enjoy the comic book, no matter what its "flaws".

[Nate]

Jeph, I appriciate positive, intelligent, and constructive letters like your's (in Vol.4 #10) more, and more everyday. I will be writing one very soon concerning these matters, and the fact that they do not represent the ideas of the fanbase. Please tell me that more of you besides Jeph and I that feel this way. If you do, you don't have to post it here, but please write Mirage, and tell them what a fantastic job they're doing, and be sure to thank them for doing this, in this depression that comic book sales are in: they can't be making a whole lot of dough, and it's all for the love of the series and the fans. Be a fan.

[impetus]

spoken truly :)

[Leo656]

I'm a fan.

A fan who wishes the book could live up to its full potential (which it isn't at the moment), but a fan nonetheless.

[Nate]

That, Leo, is just as much an opinion as the opposing side. It is all probably just my nature, but I find coming on a Ninja Turtles forum and calling it's given art style bad (or less than good, whatever) a tad disrespectful, and a little rediculous.

[Leo656]

Then I guess my opinions are disrespectful, and if that's the case then so be it, but it's still my opinion and I'll continue to express it.

I, for one, think it's ridiculous that it's far more likely that Laird would probably prefer to cancel the book out of frustration rather than get a better artist. The guy's stubborness is outrageous. And I swear, the reason he prints letters of criticism must be because he enjoys bitching at people, because he seriously comes off like a jerk.

After reading him refer to some fans and their opinions as "stupid", much as I'm a fan of the book, much as I'm a fan of the TMNT, I am NOT a fan of Peter Laird, and that's just something he and everyone else is going to have to deal with. If I'm any less of a fan because I refuse to swallow whatever someone force-feeds me, then I guess I'm just not a fan.

Which is a ridiculous statement to make, but then again, Peter says some pretty ridiculous things himself.

[Nate]

I think you are mixing Laird's and fan's words... but you make valid points, and for whatever reason, be it that I think you're a pretty cool guy, or that I just back down pretty easily, I'll be dropping it now. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just think that we should all try and suport our TMNT in every way we can.

[Leo656]

Look, I'm just saying that, though I AM glad the TMNT are back, that doesn't mean I'm going to blindly accept everything TMNT that I see. I mean, I was glad when The Next Mutation was on, just because it was a TMNT show, but I never thought it was *good* or anything.

My problem with Laird is that he knows what people don't like about the book, one measly, stupid little thing, and instead of placating the fans who he claims to care so much about, he stubbornly sticks his neck out, defends "his" vision, and lashes out at the very people putting money in his pocket solely because their opinions differ from his. If Lawson was replaced as the regular artist, nobody would have reason to complain about the quality of the TMNT book, and all the criticism Laird hates hearing would disappear completely. Instead, it seems FAR more likely that Laird would rather cancel the book because he was sick of hearing the criticism. What's wrong with that picture?

If Laird doesn't want to replace Lawson, that's his prerogative, BUT, he knows where the criticism is coming from, and why, and thus he ought to expect it. Meanwhile, I'm doing my part to support Laird by buying the book DESPITE my lack of enthusiasm for the art, so he really has nothing to complain about anyway.

I, too, have nothing left to say on this. It's all been said. I don't have any problem with you, either, it's just that to me, being vocal with your opinions, even critical ones, doesn't make one any less of a fan, it just means you want the product to be as good as it can (and, indeed, HAS) been.

[Nate]

My problem with Laird is that he knows what people don't like about the book, one measly, stupid little thing, and instead of placating the fans who he claims to care so much about, he stubbornly sticks his neck out, defends "his" vision, and lashes out at the very people putting money in his pocket solely because their opinions differ from his. If Lawson was replaced as the regular artist, nobody would have reason to complain about the quality of the TMNT book, and all the criticism Laird hates hearing would disappear completely. Instead, it seems FAR more likely that Laird would rather cancel the book because he was sick of hearing the criticism. What's wrong with that picture?



Put yourself in his position, help create this great entity, and have it be to your standards (any many others) the best it can be, and change it because some people don't agree with your vision of your creation.

Oh, and as I said somewhere: read closer, Laird ain't bitchin' about it, and he said he'll keep doing it untill it's not fun.

[Ghidorah2000]

That, Leo, is just as much an opinion as the opposing side. It is all probably just my nature, but I find coming on a Ninja Turtles forum and calling it's given art style bad (or less than good, whatever) a tad disrespectful, and a little rediculous.

I think I understand what Leo is trying to say. Would you want to watch a cartoon if the animation was less than quality animation? For instance, there are many episodes of the G1 Transformers cartoon that are drawn very horribly when Toeii (The same people who animated the Dragonball, DBZ, and DBGT series) were not available. Upon watching these episodes, you could tell how rushed and shoddy the work was compared to Toeii. It had a very displeasing blocky, candy colored look to it. Plus for some odd reason the animators gave certain characters giraffe sized necks in certain closeups which looked extremely bizarre. It is not so bad to demand quality in a product you love. I mean would you want another Batman movie on par with Batman and Robin? No. So why should the Mirage Ninja turtles comic be any different? People would like an aesthetically pleasing image to go with the words on the page. It says something about the product when you take the time to lovingly craft the art to look very nice. I think the death of a major character deserves the best artwork possible, don't you?

[HorseTechie]

Mod Warning: As stated earlier, views of opinion are allowed, as long as everyone doesn't attack others for thinking differently.

In all honesty, I understand Ghid's viewpoint. It does make sense, IMO, to put the best I can into something I do, if I enjoy doing it. So I also feel a bit of remorse, when the Mirage comics that hooked me into the TMNT, aren't drawn in the same quality as they used to be.

But I still think there is not much that Laird can do about it. Like they have a tight budget in that they can't hire better artists aside from the ones they have. Or they have too many other things going on so that they aren't focused 100% on the comic like they were back in the day (hence the reason the book is bi-monthly instead of monthly). Then Lawson, for whatever reason, has gotten less carefull about his style too.

I dunno. I don't like it, but at the same time, I don't see why we need to be POing Laird. You know how that strange bit of psychology goes: the more one gets peeved, the less likely they will change the way they do things to please the other.

But until then... my eyes will be getting their candy from the better drawn FoxBox show and DW comics. What's one poorly drawn comic gonna do to dampen my TMNT sprirt? :wink:

[Karpo_007]

Im to lazy to read this whole thread, so just going to post some comments about issue #10 wich I just finished reading. I think it a very nice issue, maybe even the best yet. Im not sure if it's just me, But Lawssons style looks great compared to first issues, or then Im just getting used to it.


So it was Splinter after all... Well the "end of era" kind of gave it away I think. It looked like a heart attack to me, but wich ever the case I belive it was a natural death. You think we will be seeing TMNT go to the old country to bury him?

About the debate/argument going on, Lawsson is one of the oldest TMNT artist there is, and a Friend of Peter Laird. It is miniority that complains about his art, and Im sure it has nothing to do with budget.

And Like Lucas on Star Wars, Laird has every right to do TMNT the way he wants. Leo, I have seen you defending Lucas about Star wars, It is excatly same thing about TMNT. And Lucas does not answer to complaints so diffrent way. Lucas nor Laird is not going to change their creation to something else even if some fans do complaint about it.

Now everyone has the right to think what ever they want about the new book and Peter Laird, but of course Laird has the right to answer to the complaints as well.

[Dane E5R]

About the debate/argument going on, Lawsson is one of the oldest TMNT artist there is, and a Friend of Peter Laird. It is miniority that complains about his art, and Im sure it has nothing to do with budget.


Certainly doesn't seem like the minority..

[Karpo_007]

Not the minority of this board, butminiority of comic book readers. If most people really disliked the art, it would not sell as good as it does now.

[Dane E5R]

I suppose, but it still seems like a lot of people are writing in about it as well, not just the people at this forum.

[Karpo_007]

Yeah, but it seems most of the feedback is positive.

[Cascadia]

I feel that the books are doing very well. The art is not bad at all.

[HorseTechie]

Yeah... I'm hooked now. I wanna see what happens in the next issue! I don't care if it seems like I'm looking though a kind of distorted privacy glass. :P

[Stefano]

how good is the mirage series doing. my comic shop only buys two copies each issue

[HorseTechie]

Umm.. I dunno!

[Cascadia]

the comic store that I go to buys about 10 copies of an issue. I am usually the first one to get one. :wink:

[Taloniss]

My comic shop generally gets 10 issues for the rack, plus issues for all who preorder it. The 10 are usually gone within a few days, so it sells pretty well, I guess.

[Aztec General]

My comic shop generally gets 10 issues for the rack, plus issues for all who preorder it. The 10 are usually gone within a few days, so it sells pretty well, I guess.

Yup, that's about right by me too.

[Nate]

All of my comic shops are the suck, and don't get them at all.. and wrather than order through them, I just do it myself.

[lhb412]

Splinters death was unavoidable, the series happens in real time and Splinter has been an old rat scince day one. Hopefully they ( the turtles) can still communicate with him, perhaps in a similar way to in the first TMNT movie.

Anyway, I hope this story arc doesn't have a quick unsatisfying ending. With all the build-up, talking dinosaurs, alien monsters, and terrorist groups runnin' around I'm hoping for a big finale! BTW I like Lawson's art style, and I appluad him for sticking to it despite some (undeserving) harsh criticism.

BTW in Laird's response to my letter he said that Letherhead will "sort of" appear in the next issue. I don't know what "sort of" exactically means, perhaps a flashback. Or maybe he comes to Splinter's funeral.

[The Master]

Hopefully they ( the turtles) can still communicate with him, perhaps in a similar way to in the first TMNT movie.

I'd hope not. If that were the case, Splinter wouldn't be really dead now, would he? Kind of dumb, IMHO.

The Turtles need to deal with Splinter's death and move on. They've been in training all their lives up to this point, and been preparing for the day when he would leave them, when they would officially be their own sensei.

[DJRuden]

The story arc will probably end just like the turtles finding that armored car-- the writers will forget about it, and sooner or later, so will we... :(

[impetus]

definitely not true :o

[JameO]

The story arc will probably end just like the turtles finding that armored car-- the writers will forget about it, and sooner or later, so will we... :(

Most people that are followers of Mirage probably wouldn't forget that he was dead. They can't just put it in. Definately not a serious character as Master Splinter. People reading the comics will have to read without Splinter and if they stick him in would be just stupid. I don't read the comics but if you read them all the time just sticking him in would be very noticable. Unless Splinter comes back as a ghost or something like that.