The Foot as a military organization

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Ok, in response to a post I made over in another thread, one aspect about the new film people seem to be against is the presentation of the Foot Clan as a military organization. Well, that might not be as far-feteched as some people think.

Ok, let's see, Ninjas/Shinobi, who were esentially the Sengoku period's version of silent commados who rely on thier stealth, and people want them to run around the modern world, with it's modern weapons, in old Kabuki costumes instead of protective bulletproof armor, and weilding only feudal era weapons with no guns or modern weaponry, despite the fact that's what modern ninjas would probably do?

A modern ninja clan, if such a thing could plausably exist in the present, would esentially be a group of mercanaries- private solders for hire. Ninjas would not be using archaic tequines and weapons, but would be fully eqiupped with any weapon, modern or archaic, that would get the job done. Guns with silencers, light armors that are bulletproof, night vision goggles- a person would be hard pressed to see a difference between black ops commandos and modern ninjas- think Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. Sure, maybe they have Katanas (Do not mention ninjatos to me) or other old meelee weapons if the mission calls for them, but why do so many fans have to have trained martial artists running around in bug-eyed pajamas?

[Powder]

Blah blah blah. People don't dislike it because it's not ninja like, they dislike it because it deviates from every single version of the foot EVER- Traditional ninjas (or robots, if you want).

[TurtleTitan97]

Blah blah blah. People don't dislike it because it's not ninja like, they dislike it because it deviates from every single version of the foot EVER- Traditional ninjas (or robots, if you want).

^ Pretty much this. I'd rather have The Foot "running around in bug-eyed pajamas" than as some millitary ops team.

[1984TMNT]

Why does this thread have "spoilers" in the label? There is nothing spolierish about this - unless you are stating that you have credible knowledge on the script being used?

[Bmaga123]

Why does this thread have "spoilers" in the label? There is nothing spolierish about this - unless you are stating that you have credible knowledge on the script being used?

Was thinking the same thing myself :ohwell:

[1984TMNT]

^ Pretty much this. I'd rather have The Foot "running around in bug-eyed pajamas" than as some millitary ops team.

I agree (though I wouldn't be completely revolted by a more military style look for the foot clan). The traditional ninja look could be plausible if they are running around at night blending into the shadows....not to mention they could still be wearing bullet proof vests under those, if needed. With that said, the need to wear such protective gear would certainly depend on what types of crimes they were committing as well as who their enemies were and what weapons they used, no?

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

There are some people who would complain about bringing up the leaked script without a spoiler tag.

Don't get me wrong, I think the classic look is amazing, but I think it could be militarily updated. There is nothing wrong with a foot carrying a gun, instead of using ninjas stars. Or bulletproof armor under thier outfit.

[1984TMNT]

I think it's safe to say that the old leaked script is not what's being used here (at least not anything close to the same). So, no need to label this as a spoiler thread. Instead, it's giving off the impression that there is confirmation in the new movie that the foot clan is a military organization, which hasn't been confirmed or denied. Just my 2 cents

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I agree, though I can't seem to edit it.

[Powder]

I agree, though I can't seem to edit it.

Go to edit, then click the advanced tab. Lots of people seem to not know about that feature, but it allows you to edit titles, or even delete the thread if you so desire.

[Kendamu]

A modern ninja clan, if such a thing could plausably exist in the present, would esentially be a group of mercanaries- private solders for hire. Ninjas would not be using archaic tequines and weapons, but would be fully eqiupped with any weapon, modern or archaic, that would get the job done.

Let's not get started on realism. If you want modern equivalents of Ninja, you're brushing a lot closer to that with the Turtles disguising themselves as construction workers in Corporate Raiders from Dimension X (http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Corporate_Raiders_from_Dimension_X) or Danny Pennington telling the Shredder where the Turtles were hiding out in the first movie than you ever would be some sort of commando team raiding a place and taking it by force with any sort of weaponry whether it be old or new.

Realism aside, why are you making it sound like it's wrong for fans to want a general degree of faithfulness in translating stereotypical comic book ninja from the pages to the screen?

If you're down with realism, though, check out this book (http://www.amazon.com/True-Path-Ninja-Definitive-Translation/dp/4805311142/). It's really good.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Let's not get started on realism. If you want modern equivalents of Ninja, you're brushing a lot closer to that with the Turtles disguising themselves as construction workers in Corporate Raiders from Dimension X (http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Corporate_Raiders_from_Dimension_X) or Danny Pennington telling the Shredder where the Turtles were hiding out in the first movie than you ever would be some sort of commando team raiding a place and taking it by force with any sort of weaponry whether it be old or new.

Realism aside, why are you making it sound like it's wrong for fans to want a general degree of faithfulness in translating stereotypical comic book ninja from the pages to the screen?

If you're down with realism, though, check out this book (http://www.amazon.com/True-Path-Ninja-Definitive-Translation/dp/4805311142/). It's really good.

Yes, for disguise missions. I was the one who had argued in another thread that ninjas were more spies and saboteours than assasins. (History major with Asian studies focus here)

I'm not demanding realism, nor am I saying that the tradtional outfits shouldn't be used. I am simply arguing against the purely sterotypical potrayal, in favor of something more of a combination of the two. Again, Snake Eyes combines the best of Modern Commando, yet evoke the traditional view of the ninja. I don't see anything wrong with a fictional ninja using a gun with his Katana, or grenades with his smoke bombs.

[chrisdude]

It doesn't bother me. The robots from the cartoon didn't bother me. The thuggish runaway teens from the movie didn't bother me. The military soldiers from the script didn't bother me. The way they look in the set photos looks fine to me (Even though they do look low-budget).

And I concur with the general notion of Panda's post, though I know nothing about ninjas.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Thanks Chrisdude, and thanks Powder for the edit info. And the whole point of this post was speaking up in defense of the military designs of the outfits in the pictures. Military makes sense for an urban mission.

[Kendamu]

Yes, for disguise missions. I was the one who had argued in another thread that ninjas were more spies and saboteours than assasins. (History major with Asian studies focus here)

I'm not demanding realism, nor am I saying that the tradtional outfits shouldn't be used. I am simply arguing against the purely sterotypical potrayal, in favor of something more of a combination of the two. Again, Storm Shadow combines the best of Modern Commando, yet evoke the traditional view of the ninja. I don't see anything wrong with a fictional ninja using a gun with his Katana, or grenades with his smoke bombs.

Modern explosives, if going for realism, I see explosives as a gray area. Outright assault weapons are a different matter to me when it comes to ninja.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I have no problem with them using guns, and those 'foot soldiers' we saw in the trailer had guns. I think this might be at least one subgroup of the foot's outfit; military-esque fatigues with 'anonomuys'-influenced face masks.

[Andrew NDB]

In other words... in a movie which will almost undoubtedly feature Krang and Technodromes and Dimension X and other Fred Wolf wackiness, the producers are really that concerned about making sure the Foot ninjas are appropriately modernized and realistic despite not looking like any sort of ninjas we have ever seen in any TMNT media (or any media, period, really) or would expect to see?

Look, we all know how Bay likes his military guys and military-esque battles... I don't think we need to look much deeper than that into things. "How can we get the military involved in the TMNT movie??" "Well, there is a Foot Clan with Foot SOLDIERS... maybe we can do something there..."

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

In other words... in a movie which will almost undoubtedly feature Krang and Technodromes and Dimension X and other Fred Wolf wackiness, the producers are really that concerned about making sure the Foot ninjas are appropriately modernized and realistic despite not looking like any sort of ninjas we have ever seen in any TMNT media (or any media, period, really) or would expect to see?

Look, we all know how Bay likes his military guys and military-esque battles... I don't think we need to look much deeper than that into things. "How can we get the military involved in the TMNT movie??" "Well, there is a Foot Clan with Foot SOLDIERS... maybe we can do something there..."

Not arguing that. Merely pointing out that ninjas in military fatigues isn't as far fetched as people make it out to be. Again, not arguing for realisim, this is a movie. These particular ninjas, in this particular film, probably are a result of Bay's love of military.

[Xav]

I don't see why traditional ninjas can't work, Batman Begins and GI Joe did it.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I don't see why traditional ninjas can't work, Batman Begins did it.

The league of assasins wore traditional ninja gear and weilded traditional weapons in other parts of the world, but during the final battle in gotham they were wearing army-esque outfits, and weilding modern weapons

[Xav]

I don't think have anything against the Foot using modern weapons, both the comics and cartoons had the Foot wielding guns. But even modern day soldiers would be trained in unarmed combat. Why you make a good point about Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow, that doesn't seem to be what we are getting. If these guys wore ski masks and had both ranged and close quarters weapons sure. But these guys just seem like generic soldiers.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I don't think have anything against the Foot using modern weapons, both the comics and cartoons had the Foot wielding guns. But even modern day soldiers would be trained in unarmed combat. Why you make a good point about Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow, that doesn't seem to be what we are getting. If these guys wore ski masks and had both ranged and close quarters weapons sure. But these guys just seem like generic soldiers.

Okay, I will grant you that. I do wish they had gone in a more Traditional ninja look mixed with the guns and military fatigues.

[ctt4lfecw]

Im not a fan of the masks, the rest of the attire looks good.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Ethier the outfits minus the masks, or something like the foot tech ninjas from 2K3, with a little more combat gear added would be good.

[zodiac brave]

its interesting that gi joe, a franchise with a premise heavily based on military trappings did "traditional" ninjas so well, yet tmnt, where the word NINJA is in the title (and has always skewed to the more old-school "traditional" portrayal of ninjas) is now portraying them more like military style troops.

something funny bout that... :ohwell:

[Candy Kappa]

For me, the design of the Foot are unique to any other pop-culture ninja creation. Their bug eyed masks are creepy as heck, hiding all of their face unlike the usual pop-culture ninja look where they somersault around in a black or bright colored Karate Gi and silly masks.

The Foot look is unique to the TMNT as a label and as a franchise, and ninjas are totally kewl. So there is no need to "realism" a ninja clan to be a military unit (If that is the whole case for the film, remember we have only one image to base this off), "realism" is stupid when we're talking about a comic book property about humanoid turtles fighting a ninja clan in modern day New York. There a huge difference in realism and making things plausible. the first TMNT movie isn't realistic or invoke realism, there are no such things as human-like mutant reptiles that can talk. But the movie does a well job of pushing your suspense of disbelief and makes it seem as it could happen, thanks to great storytelling and effects.

explosives are fine, actual Shinobi did use bombs, the Foot ninja used firearms, explosives and other modern time equipment.

Shredder wore a grenade on his person in issue 1, the Foot uses guns in at least in CaW, robots, robotic suits, they used modern science mixed with magic to clone Shredder, in 2k3 we had Tech Foot Ninja with camo suits and the gunner Foot.

would actual modern day Shinobi been using military uniforms? Yes. Not their own kind of uniform, but infiltrating in other units. In New York though, seeing they are supposed to blend in, a Shinobi group in NY would more likely dress as a normal person, hiding small weaponry under his daily day clothes, maybe a padded suits under, but not likely as you aren't meant to be discovered, running around in a Kevlar suit would certainly be a good way of sticking out as a sore thumb if someone noticed it. Unless a Shinobi was disguised as a Police Officer.

And this is a movie, we have to have something interesting to look at, military units are not interesting to look at. We have seen that countless times, probably morose then the atypical pop-culture Ninjas in a high budged Hollywood movie. And even less the Bug-eyed Foot ninja from the TMNT franchise.

They don't have to be crimson and gray in color, but maybe more akin to how the Foot looks like in the new Nick cartoon.

[Walkabout]

The Foot Clan and technology have gone hand in hand since dot, but if whatever that is in the pics we have seen is how the foot dress regularly Im not impressed at all.

Maybe they dress up like this to take over the channel 6 building only as to hide their "true" appearance?

Geez Larry Hamas GI Joe was great, shame the movies are absolute s%@t.

Hoping this film isnt like the Joe movies :ohwell:

[Shred87]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles/news/?a=78955

I apologize if this is posted somewhere but I haven't seen any comments on it. What's everyone's thoughts on this?

[Powder]

...Are you... s-serious?

That's what this entire thread is about.

[Shred87]

Thanks for the explanation... I didn't see anyone post those pictures or talk about what they might be (if they aren't the foot)
... Thus the reason for putting the link in this thread

[Crabfight]

It's all just a matter of style. Tech can be used; updated equipment certainly can be too. What is going to annoy fans (or at least some fans) will be if this feels more like a military unit than a ninja clan.

Of course the foot would want to update their arsenal, but main stream audiences can easily be convinced that the kind of traditional tactics they've been taught ninjas use would still also be useful in a modern fight.

So to the OP: I think your main thesis is fine. Merging updated tactics into a ninja clan is fine. Andrew's point is the more realistic one though. Bay's likely just going for what will be cooler to mainstream audiences, not what incorporates more realism.

As for those images of the potential new foot soldiers. I'm very much not sold, but we'll have to see them in action to get any definitive opinions.

[samxsteal]

The league of assasins wore traditional ninja gear and weilded traditional weapons in other parts of the world, but during the final battle in gotham they were wearing army-esque outfits, and weilding modern weapons

I was kind of thinking the same thing Even the "traditional" gear wasn't so old school as people think it a very updated style of Uniform. I think a combo Similar to Snake eyes would be perfectly fine he's the perfect combo of the two styles.

It's all just a matter of style. Tech can be used; updated equipment certainly can be too. What is going to annoy fans (or at least some fans) will be if this feels more like a military unit than a ninja clan.
The funny Part about all this is That the military Like Navy seals and Special Forces obviously adopted the whole Ninja thing. I even remember seeing a whole Documentary about the "modern Ninja" and people to realize the most realist ninja are those who just look like every day people ninja in the old days didn't normally dress in the black Gi they dressed as farmers and used mostly farming tools and just about anything to the disposal. Just a thought

Of course the foot would want to update their arsenal, but main stream audiences can easily be convinced that the kind of traditional tactics they've been taught ninjas use would still also be useful in a modern fight.
Yes they are like I said alot of Modern military Special forces tactics Are adopted from the art of Ninjutsu

So to the OP: I think your main thesis is fine. Merging updated tactics into a ninja clan is fine. Andrew's point is the more realistic one though. Bay's likely just going for what will be cooler to mainstream audiences, not what incorporates more realism.
People Seriously need to remember though bay is Producing this he is not Directing this movie nor did he work on the script. So no this is not him.

That said I believe there's a lot of information we're missing. Though if you just take those guys from the photos and strap on a couple sword to their backs, would change all the ideas about these guy faster then you would think.

Having a pistol doesn't seem like major military hardware to me and there are no shots with other weapons.

I'm also wondering what the masks are about maybe is important for the particular scene.

As for those images of the potential new foot soldiers. I'm very much not sold, but we'll have to see them in action to get any definitive opinions.
That a good point but like i said above give them swords knives and other ninja style weapons and have them fight using martial arts and the whole look of them will change from "omg military" to "OMG NINJA". Seriously Snake Eyes is all i have to say when in comes to a Commando ninja.

[Raven]

The masks look horrible, I'm praying they are not the foot or we are seeing something heavily out of context. But this looks like crap.

[TurtleMaster4]

I'm all for foot ninjas with guns, even machine guns, that would be awesome!

But, an apple can't fall far from it's tree, well unless there's a giant hill next to it, but that's not the point!


In all seriousness, I would love to see the turtles running around fighting Foot Ninjas with Ninja Weapons, and then the next thing you know, a bunch of foot with Machine Guns come out and start firing at them. And every so often this could happen, as long as if the majority of foot ninjas are, you know, your classic types of ninjas.

[Galactus]

The idea of the Foot using military-esque weapons and garb is not a problem. I've said on another thread not only is the precedent for ninjas to that in other popular depictions of them such as Ras's Al Ghul's henchmen in "Batman Begins"and eben in TMNT. The modern Foot Ninja in the Mirage comics as well as the Foot Tech in the 4Kids series and Imagi movie.

The real talking point is whether they are an actual military group. If that is so not only is it pretty big deviation from what they should be but sends alarm bells of a certain Colonel in command that is secretly a yellow skinned alien that grows spikes.

[chrisdude]

Just thought I'd throw this out there.

The trailer for a movie called, "The Escape Plan" has prison security guards that look a lot like the new Foot.
http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/06/27/escape-plan-trailer-1

I don't really know the story behind the outfits for either movie, but maybe there's a similar reasoning, and viewers won't think it's weird? I dunno. Just felt it was worth posting.

[Powder]

Interesting. I guess 'anonymous' creep-ass cops are a new trend. Unrelated, but that seems like a pretty rad action flick.

[jestermon]

I don't think people remember that they had huge laser rifles in the cartoon, it's like people have selective memories.

[Powder]

That's not the real foot. Those were robots. Robots because they (the turtles) couldn't be violent with humans on the same level. They were laser guns, not real guns, because those weren't allowed.

[Galactus]

I don't think people remember that they had huge laser rifles in the cartoon, it's like people have selective memories.

That's been mentioned. The Foot using guns and other high tech gear is not the issue. The issue is whether they are an actual military unit.