Who is the eldest among the brothers?

[Shark_Blade]

Is there any official info on this?

Donnie seems the tallest. Does that makes him the eldest because he's grown more? That couldn't be necessarily true since even I'm a tad shorter than my little brother. Mikey seems the youngest.

Just because Leo leads, does that necessarily makes him the eldest? Does the way they act and think hints to their birth order?

My guess in order:

1. Raph
2. Leo
3. Donnie
4. Mikey

Normally I put Leo as the eldest, but now I thought that if anyone's able to be hot temper and went berserk at anytime, it's usually the eldest. Me being the example. :P In addition, Leo elected himself to be the leader in Nick's show, and not because he's the eldest. Usually being the eldest, you're automatically elected to lead just like what my parents do.

[Slade]

I actually agree with you, but I'm sure you will get a bunch of they're all 15 answers.

[gobo]

In at least a couple incarnations, Leo is the oldest.

[BabyTurtles]

I thought it was

1) Leo---cause he's the most responsible, level-headed, leader
2) Raph----cause he's the toughest, very protective....but has a bad temper
3) Donnie---cause he's smart....but kinda wimpy XD
4) Mikey---he's the shortest most immature and very dependent on the others

Donnie and Raph could be the same.....but since Raph seems to be alpha over Donnie...I put him as older lol

as for Leo...I always thought he was the big brother....cause in the 2007 movie Raph called him big brother

[Jester]

Some theories abound that Leo and Raph are the same age, making Raph's angry rebellious streak more of a "Why's Leo so great? I could be the leader too!" attitude.

[DonatelloNinja82]

I look at it as Leo, Raph, Don, then Mike.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Hasn't this been done before? In this version it appears they're all the "same age", at least from Splinter celebrating their "Mutatuion Day" in the first ep as if it was a birthday. But in other incarnations, it's always seemed to be Leo, then Raph, then Don, and Mike as the youngest.

[TurtleTitan97]

In the motion comic on Nick, Splinter says Leo's the oldest, followed by Raph, Donnie, then Mikey.

[Jester]

Hasn't this been done before?
A thousand times. Just wait for the 15,000th "Who is your favorite Turtle?" thread.

[gobo]

I always figured Donatello to be second-oldest in the OT. Of course, they weren't brothers in that iteration.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Lol! Yeah, right?! To quote Mikey- "It was a JOKE!" I've seen this question so many times I've lost count. To be honest, I'm more curious about their actual "birthdays" than who's supposedly older. We've heard that line often enough to know the order, so I'd be more interested in what actual dates they were "born"(hatched). I have a tentative set of birthdays picked for them, but I'd like to see what b-days others would give them. Zodiac signs and elemental afilliations/personal birth-numbers played a big part in how I did it, but I'd like to know if there are any official canon dates around. I saw a thread for that somewhere, but it didn't seem to have any difinitive answers.

[Jester]

It's occasionally referenced that they were brothers in the FW toon. There's Splinter mentioning Donatello's "Brother Turtles", there's the babyized Turtles calling the normal ones "Big Brother." (Although they called Splinter Uncle...)
The only Turtle series to completely undo the Brotherhood was Next Mutation.
I never saw them as biological brothers, anyway, but rather a family by adoption.

EDIT: I think the only definitive dates were on the old Playmates card backs. Or did the RPG guide have birthdays?
EDIT the 2nd: Not dates...just ages on Playmates packaging. Leo's 16, Mikey's 15 1/2, and Don and Raph are 15.

[gobo]

Exactly. But, a handful of suggestions out of 192 eps doesn't make it so. Remmber Splinter once called April "my child"? It's a pretty safe bet that they aren't related. :trazz:

[Pterobat]

As screwy as continuity and things can get, wouldn't four baby turtles being sold at the same time be from the same clutch of eggs?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Huh. That would make Mikey older than both of them, if true. He sure don't ACT like it, though!

Honestly, I'd be surprised if they WEREN'T biologically related. Pet stores get most of their stock from breeding farms or private breeders, and especially with fish or reptiles, they are usually sold in batches of animals from the same hatching or from several clutches that hatch around the same time- mostly because that's how they're kept/raised until shipped to the shop. This is so that older and larger animals don't crowd out or attack the smaller and younger ones (or eat all the food). And since turtles can lay fairly large clutches of eggs at one time, or even several in one season, it would be likely that one female could supply the eggs for several shops in just one or two layings. Which would mean that all those eggs would have been incubated together. Also, most breeders work with a limited amount of space, and thus a small breeding stock- usually just a few breeding-age animals. Large-scale farms are mostly a thing of the past, as the industry cracked down on farms decades ago for animal safety reasons.

Chances are, they probably WERE all from the same mother (even if she mated with more than one male and they hatched out at slightly different times). At least that's how I've always seen them. It helps to know a bit about how the pet industry works. (Thanks mom, for raising all those hamsters!!!) I even tried getting into it myself once- but failed miserably when the male Bettas I was breeding would EAT the eggs they were supposed to be gaurding.... Or get too rough with the females and end up killing them trying to mate. I gave up after just a few tries.

Edit: And yes, what Pterobat said is true. They most likely would be.

[chrisdude]

I can see how, by traits, people guess that Leo the oldest, and Mikey is the youngest. I don't, however, see why people seem to think Raph is older than Donnie.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Competetive middle-child syndrome? Just a guess. It makes more sense if he's second-oldest, instead of second-youngest. Donnie's got the comfortable spot of not having to compete with the other two, and get left alone to do his own thing. It's the logical choice.

[Gwydion]

In the motion comic on Nick, Splinter says Leo's the oldest, followed by Raph, Donnie, then Mikey.
Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm unaware if it's ever mentioned in any other versions of TMNT, but for the Nick show, this is actually the official order (so long as the online comic is considered "canon", I suppose - who knows, the cartoon could undo this down the road).

[chrisdude]

Competetive middle-child syndrome? Just a guess. It makes more sense if he's second-oldest, instead of second-youngest. Donnie's got the comfortable spot of not having to compete with the other two, and get left alone to do his own thing. It's the logical choice.Makes sense, in the general TMNT multiverse.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm unaware if it's ever mentioned in any other versions of TMNT, but for the Nick show, this is actually the official order (so long as the online comic is considered "canon", I suppose - who knows, the cartoon could undo this down the road).And I'll buy this as, 'canon until overwritten.'

[Candy Kappa]

Huh. That would make Mikey older than both of them, if true. He sure don't ACT like it, though!

Honestly, I'd be surprised if they WEREN'T biologically related. Pet stores get most of their stock from breeding farms or private breeders, and especially with fish or reptiles, they are usually sold in batches of animals from the same hatching or from several clutches that hatch around the same time- mostly because that's how they're kept/raised until shipped to the shop. This is so that older and larger animals don't crowd out or attack the smaller and younger ones (or eat all the food). And since turtles can lay fairly large clutches of eggs at one time, or even several in one season, it would be likely that one female could supply the eggs for several shops in just one or two layings. Which would mean that all those eggs would have been incubated together. Also, most breeders work with a limited amount of space, and thus a small breeding stock- usually just a few breeding-age animals. Large-scale farms are mostly a thing of the past, as the industry cracked down on farms decades ago for animal safety reasons.

Chances are, they probably WERE all from the same mother (even if she mated with more than one male and they hatched out at slightly different times). At least that's how I've always seen them. It helps to know a bit about how the pet industry works. (Thanks mom, for raising all those hamsters!!!) I even tried getting into it myself once- but failed miserably when the male Bettas I was breeding would EAT the eggs they were supposed to be gaurding.... Or get too rough with the females and end up killing them trying to mate. I gave up after just a few tries.

Edit: And yes, what Pterobat said is true. They most likely would be.

Although made just for comedy, the 1988 toys bio cards lists the turtles from different pet stores.

[BubblyShell22]

I always thought Raph was second oldest because of how he competes with Leo and how close they are at times. However, I could have sworn someone mentioned that Peter Laird stated that it was Leo, Don, Raph, and Mikey in the comics universe.

But since we're talking about the Nick universe, I'd say that Raph is the second oldest until stated otherwise.

[Jester]

The RPG guide lists all 4 as 15.

[BabyTurtles]

The RPG guide lists all 4 as 15.

yea they are all the same age XD

but even if they are quadruplets some would have to be seconds older than the others (though I don't know how turtle babies work...)

but mentally I'd say
Leo
Raph
Donnie --- Donnie might be the smartest but he still seems younger to me.
Mikey

[snake]

yea they are all the same age XD

but even if they are quadruplets some would have to be seconds older than the others (though I don't know how turtle babies work...)

but mentally I'd say
Leo
Raph
Donnie --- Donnie might be the smartest but he still seems younger to me.
Mikey

Your order works the best, it's probably the closest to the actual order

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Although made just for comedy, the 1988 toys bio cards lists the turtles from different pet stores.

I don't buy that for a minute. If they were from different pet shops as stated on the cards (which if memory serves were also in different TOWNS!) how would they all be in the same bowl carried by one kid in NYC just after being bought? That just doesn't add up.

[Candy Kappa]

maybe Chet likes to travel? :P

[Jester]

Maybe his dad buys him turtles when he's away on business....

[Dudette]

I think I also read somewhere that Donnie's older than Raph, Leo being the oldest and Mikey the youngest. Still, I consider Raph to be second oldest. It makes more sense regarding the leader rivalry. I've always thought they were related and that's not going to change no matter what.

Leo
Raph
Donnie
Mikey

is my head canon for the Nick-verse. At least for now.

[DonatelloNinja82]

I think I also read somewhere that Donnie's older than Raph, Leo being the oldest and Mikey the youngest. Still, I consider Raph to be second oldest. It makes more sense regarding the leader rivalry. I've always thought they were related and that's not going to change no matter what.

Leo
Raph
Donnie
Mikey

is my head canon for the Nick-verse. At least for now.

They are totally brothers to me as well...I think they only one where it was stated they weren't biological brothers was NM.

[gobo]

Just thought about it, and I seem to recall Kevin Munroe giving a rundown of their supposed ages. I think he had Raph as the oldest. If so, that would suggest that the reason he emphasized "big brother" is because he was getting... sarcastic. As if to say, "I'm older than you, so I should be the leader".

I could be remembering wrong though. :ohwell:

[Shark_Blade]

^That's fascinating. I hope to learn more.
EDIT: I think the only definitive dates were on the old Playmates card backs. Or did the RPG guide have birthdays?
EDIT the 2nd: Not dates...just ages on Playmates packaging. Leo's 16, Mikey's 15 1/2, and Don and Raph are 15.Huh, so the OT have Mikey as second oldest? Much older than Raph and Don? Interesting.

Thinking back, OT Mikey was not immature and childish like Nick Mikey. :P He's got that signature surfer dude attitude.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, but he still had plenty of immature moments there, too. Like the ep where he was obsessed with reading his comic book in spite of everyone being in danger (forgot which one it is), and what about his decision to eat those mutagen-laced cookies in spite of Don's warning? Not exactly the most responsible choice. And there was "Cowabunga Shred-head", where he was so obsessed with pizza that Splinter had to hypnotize him into not wanting it anymore. They found him hiding in the cupboard gorging himself for heaven's sake!

[Shark_Blade]

Your description kinda reminds me of Bart Simpson. Despite being older, Bart is childish and immature compared to his siblings.

[The Sewer Lord]

Your description kinda reminds me of Bart Simpson. Despite being older, Bart is childish and immature compared to his siblings.

Don't know why, but that kinda reminded of how much of a badass Maggie was in the series.

[Shark_Blade]

Yeah the milk bottle breaking in the movie. Hard as nails.

[Refractive Reflections]

I can see how, by traits, people guess that Leo the oldest, and Mikey is the youngest. I don't, however, see why people seem to think Raph is older than Donnie.

Same here. I always assumed Raph was younger than Don because Raph doesn't display the same protective feelings toward Don as Raph does with Mikey. (One would think that if Don was younger, Raph would be just as protective but I haven't really seen that in most versions.)

I assumed that since Leo and Don already had their niches first that contributed most (Leo's ninjitsu skills, and Don's technical knowledge) in accomplishing their missions, it made Raph feel overshadowed and slightly peeved in not contributing as much (or not feeling as valuable as Leo and Don), which could be part of the source of his anger. Not only in being critical of Leo's leadership but also of Don's "crazy" inventions. In addition, it could explain how its the fuel in his rage to "prove" himself in fighting, to Splinter and his brothers.
If Raph was older than Don, one would think that he would be a more supportive older sibling of Don's inventions. :ohwell:


However, I could have sworn someone mentioned that Peter Laird stated that it was Leo, Don, Raph, and Mikey in the comics universe.

Roseangelo said that (but said it was Kevin Eastman):
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1029279&postcount=6

[DonatelloNinja82]

Yeah, but he still had plenty of immature moments there, too. Like the ep where he was obsessed with reading his comic book in spite of everyone being in danger (forgot which one it is), and what about his decision to eat those mutagen-laced cookies in spite of Don's warning? Not exactly the most responsible choice. And there was "Cowabunga Shred-head", where he was so obsessed with pizza that Splinter had to hypnotize him into not wanting it anymore. They found him hiding in the cupboard gorging himself for heaven's sake!

Or "Nightmare in the Lair" when he put on the "Dream-O-Vision" helmet despite Don's warnings that it wasn't "perfected".

[MsMarvelDuckie]

LOL! I almost forgot about that one! And as far as Rpah and Donnie go, I'd say he feels less need to protect the brainiac than his "baby bro" because Don's both older than Mikey, and more responsible. He's perfectly capable of taking care of himself, and Raph likely knows that. Plus, his tendancy to overanalyze things leads him to be far more cautious and take fewer risks than the others. Since Don's also the pacifist and less likely to get into fights, Raph has less reason to worry about him. Now MIKEY, on the other hand...... Yeah, I can see how Raph would go nuts trying to keep an eye on HIM, lol!!

[DonatelloNinja82]

LOL! I almost forgot about that one! And as far as Rpah and Donnie go, I'd say he feels less need to protect the brainiac than his "baby bro" because Don's both older than Mikey, and more responsible. He's perfectly capable of taking care of himself, and Raph likely knows that. Plus, his tendancy to overanalyze things leads him to be far more cautious and take fewer risks than the others. Since Don's also the pacifist and less likely to get into fights, Raph has less reason to worry about him. Now MIKEY, on the other hand...... Yeah, I can see how Raph would go nuts trying to keep an eye on HIM, lol!!

Funny how things are different in the other incarnations...I'm watching 2k3 through presently with my sons and just for fun we are counting how many times Raph saves each brother's butts in a battle (yes, I'm THAT much of a geek). For Don, the count is three and we just finished ep. 19 (Shredder Strikes, part 2). :D I love how protective of Mikey Raph is in 2k12, tho. :) He is somewhat in 2k3 as well...but he's just a rough and tumble guy in that incarnation period.

[Refractive Reflections]

Since Don's also the pacifist and less likely to get into fights, Raph has less reason to worry about him.

I don't know, if Raph did know Don was such a pacifist Raph probably wouldn't tease Don so harshly. It would bother the heck out of Raph that Don would just be tolerating it and not doing anything about it.

At least to me, Raph teases Don the same way toward an older sibling (tearing down their pedestal position or capabilites; or in this case Don's inventions) rather than a younger sibling (more playful bantering with Michelangelo).

Eh... just my opinion though...:P:lol:

[BabyTurtles]

I don't know, if Raph did know Don was such a pacifist Raph probably wouldn't tease Don so harshly. It would bother the heck out of Raph that Don would just be tolerating it and not doing anything about it.

At least to me, Raph teases Don the same way toward an older sibling (tearing down their pedestal position or capabilites; or in this case Don's inventions) rather than a younger sibling (more playful bantering with Michelangelo).

Eh... just my opinion though...:P:lol:

I see it like this...since both Mikey and Donnie are intimidated and pushed around by Raph they are the youngest. :lol:

plus they both respect Leo :) they just have the younger vibe (they don't question the older brothers....don't complain as much)

as for Raph only being protective of Mikey....I think they are all protective of Mikey XD....Raph is just louder

(though my opinion also ^_^)

besides Raph has that second child complex going on XD he's so close to being the oldest...but not quite.

[Atren]

First thought about this was actually how would they even know who is youngest or oldest?

[Shark_Blade]

besides Raph has that second child complex going on XDWhat is this second child complex? Tell me more.

[kelligrafie]

Someone mentioned they might be quadruplets.

Let's play with that theory and suggest that the foursome might be made up of two sets of twins.

Leo & Raph - Mr Cool & Mr Hothead.

Donnie & Mikey - Mr Thinker & Mr Doing-Without-Thinking.

[BabyTurtles]

What is this second child complex? Tell me more.

when your the second oldest you can sometimes feel overshadowed by your older sibling.

I'm the second oldest XD...and I feel it sometimes too....

it's like my sister gets all A's and I just can't seem to catch up with her
and does it feel good to beat her in something XD
even my mom went through it and gets jealous of her older brother


but thats my case....it might be different for others....though Raph seems to have it too XD

[Bossa Nova]

I don't think I would love Raph nearly as much as I do if he was younger than Don. As the second eldest his rivalry and occasional antagonizing feelings with Leo makes sense. He doesn't want to be told what to do, he's just as capable (in his mind) as calling the shots and its in his inherent nature to be a protector, which can rub him the wrong way if he's feeling he can't fully protect Leo when he's off doing his leader thing. However, as the second youngest, Raph's rivalry with Leo just feels extremely immature and childish. The fact that he would feel intimidated by big brother Leo's role in the group and not big brother Donnie leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes Raph come off as somewhat of a spoiled jerk who just wants all the attention on himself. But that's just how I see it.

So yeah, I subscribe to the Leo, Raph, Don, Mike birth order. But then, I like to also think they all assume they're pretty much the same age (instead of one or two years apart), since in the end, how are any of them ever going to KNOW? (I mean, for all they know they ARE a few years apart, but why are they going to bother making things complicated when it's just simpler to state they're all 16 one year and then all 17 the next?) So they're supposed birth order is something Splinter likely assumed long ago and what the turtles just decided to stick with. I'm sure if they argued long enough they could decide Don was the oldest and Raph the youngest but in the end, to them in any case, it wouldn't really mean anything since there's no surefire way of proving anything about their lives before they were mutated. It doesn't really seem like age even really matters the turtle anyway, since not even Leo pulls out the, 'Well I'm oldest' card, instead, it's always the 'I'm the leader' card. This whole age order, I feel, is something that really only matters in our heads, or at least it does in mine anyway.

[Refractive Reflections]

It doesn't really seem like age even really matters the turtle anyway, since not even Leo pulls out the, 'Well I'm oldest' card, instead, it's always the 'I'm the leader' card. This whole age order, I feel, is something that really only matters in our heads, or at least it does in mine anyway.

I'm sure that would change if Raph was the oldest, and Leo was younger. :lol: If you thought the rivalry was bad, just imagine how much it would ignite Raph's anger to know that a younger sibling is dictating to him on what to do. It would be quite a scene to hear Splinter say, "Yes Raphael, your younger brother Leonardo has greater leadership capabilities than you." :lol: