US Government Shutdown

[pannoni1]

Well as of today, me and my parents (soon to retire) got furloughed just because our country doesn't know how to be good at managing money. Over 800,000 are also out today. While this means more free time and have a bunch of money saved, it shows that the Obama isn't getting along with the Republicans.

[Sofistocat]

IOU's to the men and women of the armed forces who put their lives on the line for our freedom? You think the Grim Reaper or terrorists takes IOU's?

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, I find this to be so ridiculous, especially that the military isn't getting paid what it should because the idiots running this country can't get it together. You know what I think we should do? Fire the idiots in Congress for not doing their jobs or at least suspend their pay. Maybe then they'll learn that they have to do their jobs properly in order to have a successful country. I think it sucks that so many people are getting laid off while these idiot politicians get to keep their paychecks and don't have to worry about any of this affecting them while the little people get screwed. The way I look at it is if Obamacare is good enough for all of us, then it should be good enough for the other people, too, and they shouldn't be exempt from it.

And everyone says America's so great? Not by a long shot.

[Peanut]

So, is stuff actively on fire down there or what, guys?

[BubblyShell22]

Well, a lot of workers have been furloughed without pay. national parks and museums are shut down, and the military will not get their pay. But if you're talking about a real fire or something, no, that hasn't happened yet, though I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[Peanut]

You must be a riot at parties.

[Brodie]

They've stated multiple times that the military is getting paid.

[Jester]

They've stated multiple times that the military is getting paid.
Indeed the troops have no real worry. That'd make Congress look like monsters. Can't have that...

It's mostly "non-essential" government workers who wind up furloughed. If anyone should have their pay withheld, it should be ALL of Congress...they seem pretty "non-essential" to me at the moment.

As the old adage says: If Pro is the opposite of Con, than what is the opposite of Progress?

[愛]

I'm a little miffed that McDonald's doesn't have a new sandwich to distract us from all of this.

[Jester]

The McRib will end all suffering!

[Sofistocat]

They've stated multiple times that the military is getting paid.

An IOU in this case is retroactive pay. Problem is there has been no time frame given for when the retro pay will actually be payed out. The military is currently working w/o pay until a date is given for the retro payout. Gov states alot of things... Do the homework and see for yourself

[Jester]

"Do you like my hat?"
http://lonelyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg

Retroactive pay is for the furloughed people....not the military.

[Roseangelo]

Retroactive pay is for the furloughed people....not the military.

No, the military are getting IOUs. I'm pretty sure the regular furloughed people don't get retroactive pay.

[Sofistocat]

I guess at the current moment you are right. When/if the shutdown ends, the military IOU's will become retroactive pay....

A furlough is a temporary layoff. They will not be compensated but may be able to collect unemplyment... case by case dependent.

Ny times blurb:

Current Congressional dispute concerningAffordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare, was tied to a*government shutdown on October 1, 2013*at 12:00*AM*EDT. During the shutdown, most "non-essential" government employees are furloughed. This has resulted in approximately 800,000 public servants being put on indefinite unpaid leave beginning October 1.


Congress cant not pay itself, thank the 27th ammendment for that one. Coincedently the reason the ammendment was drafted kind of gave a loophole that keeps the congressional paychecks rolling during a shutdown.

[BubblyShell22]

You must be a riot at parties.

I don't go to parties.

They've stated multiple times that the military is getting paid.

Yeah, in IOUs. And to me, that's not really equal to a real paycheck. Don't people usually have to pay back IOUs?

Sure, the furloughed workers could get unemployment, but it's still ridiculous that these workers are getting laid off while the idiots who have f*cked up this country still get their paychecks and have nothing to worry about.

[plastroncafe]

We get the government we vote for.

[The Stryker]

Yeah, in IOUs. And to me, that's not really equal to a real paycheck. Don't people usually have to pay back IOUs?

No. They're not being paid in IOUs.

Pay back IOUs? That doesn't happen. Who the hell told you that?

[CyberCubed]

As long as the post office and mail delivery functions as normal, this does not affect me in any way.

The last government shutdown happened way back in 1995 in November, and it came back up in January 1996...so it was only 2 months. I suppose something similar will happen now.

[Jester]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36186614.jpg

[Fjaj]

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely, except Cuchulainn" -Cuchulainn

Once you get in congress, and start getting paid that much, it's hard to lower your own pay when you have the power to raise it. It's also hard to have a risky opinion when you can just go along with your party and have a much better chance of reelection.

The problem with congress is that it controls itself, which is an extremely hard problem to fix since only they can fix it.

[Guitar_Raph]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/PCenter/Mystery%20Section/Maxine_zpse96569b7.jpg

[plastroncafe]

As long as the post office and mail delivery functions as normal, this does not affect me in any way.

The last government shutdown happened way back in 1995 in November, and it came back up in January 1996...so it was only 2 months. I suppose something similar will happen now.

How nice for you.
I know quite a few people where the opposite of this is true, and two months without pay will ruin them.

And if that happens, and they have to file for bankruptcy, guess who gets to pay their debts for them: We do.

[Refractive Reflections]

It's mostly "non-essential" government workers who wind up furloughed. If anyone should have their pay withheld, it should be ALL of Congress...they seem pretty "non-essential" to me at the moment.


Hmm, so the big question here is, how can we (the citizens) make the furlough have a mandatory effect on the legislators' salaries? That would make things move quickly. :D:lol:

[Slade]

Well, I'll be going to work and not getting paid until all this is settled.:x:(

[blindturtle02]

Well, I'll be going to work and not getting paid until all this is settled.:x:(

Oh man, sorry about that. That has to be very stressful. Hang in there and I'm hoping things get resolved sooner rather than later.

[Slade]

Yeah, it is. I have one more check coming that I hear is going to be five days short..

[Jester]

Hmm, so the big question here is, how can we (the citizens) make the furlough have a mandatory effect on the legislators' salaries? That would make things move quickly. :D:lol:
Sadly the 27th Amendment makes it impossible. Nice of them to insure their own paychecks....although, "we the people" had to ratify that amendment...and it took almost 200 years.

[BubblyShell22]

No. They're not being paid in IOUs.

Pay back IOUs? That doesn't happen. Who the hell told you that?

Nobody. That's just what I thought. And I heard about the IOUs on HLN when I was watching about this stuff, so that's where my source came from.

Well, I'll be going to work and not getting paid until all this is settled.:x:(

That sucks for you, but I'm sure the idiots don't care about that. And the Republicans should learn that you can't do something twice. They tried this before and didn't win, yet their move is to try and defund a damn law that's already in effect and signed. It's not going to happen, so they should just get over it. And I don't see what they have to be angry about since it doesn't affect them anyway. They're exempt from the damn law, so why should they complain about it?

[Plasticplayhouse]

How nice for you.
I know quite a few people where the opposite of this is true, and two months without pay will ruin them.

And if that happens, and they have to file for bankruptcy, guess who gets to pay their debts for them: We do.

not to mention, all the money those 800,000 people normally spend on rent, healthcare, utilities, groceries, clothing and supplies for their children, car payment, entertainment or services like landscaping, construction, cleaning services, etc. all of that money that would normally trickle down and help support the American economy as a whole is now missing :( many others not associated with the federal govt will feel the pinch as well.

when all said and done, the fed govt should waive any late fees/penalties due to late payments on morguages/bills.

[Roseangelo]

No. They're not being paid in IOUs.

Pay back IOUs? That doesn't happen. Who the hell told you that?

Yes, that does happen. Do your research before you get snarky. The bill to pay them with actual paychecks during the shutdown happened just Monday. Otherwise they'd be getting IOUs.

Washington Post Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-signs-bill-that-allows-military-many-defense-civilians-to-be-paid-during-shutdown/2013/10/01/ac562ec2-2ad9-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_story.html)

[Redeemer]

They've stated multiple times that the military is getting paid.

Not all of them (I think), I believe it was mentioned that the active military will get paid, but those who are doing Non-Essential Intelligence are on Furlough they will not be paid. I am assuming that this is the National Guard or Reserves.
If I can find source I will post later, was watching CNN..

[Katie]

Active and reservists are being paid.....with actual checks and not IOU's.......and IOU means that the government owes whomever. Not whomever is owed the money would have to pay the government back.

I'm one of those who'd like to see congress lose their paychecks in a shut down. They'd learn to compromise then. Buncha babies. Can't even do their jobs. Let's fire them all.

[Refractive Reflections]

Sadly the 27th Amendment makes it impossible. Nice of them to insure their own paychecks....although, "we the people" had to ratify that amendment...and it took almost 200 years.

Well this country did have the 21st Amendment to repeal the 18th, and end prohibition. ...Maybe not as impossible as we think...? ;)

[BubblyShell22]

Active and reservists are being paid.....with actual checks and not IOU's.......and IOU means that the government owes whomever. Not whomever is owed the money would have to pay the government back.

I'm one of those who'd like to see congress lose their paychecks in a shut down. They'd learn to compromise then. Buncha babies. Can't even do their jobs. Let's fire them all.

Totally agree with you there, Katie. They need to all be fired, or at least suspended without pay for not doing the jobs they were hired to do.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

I found it ironic the Government was shut down the day GTA Online went live lol :lol:

[Redeemer]

Active and reservists are being paid.....with actual checks and not IOU's.......and IOU means that the government owes whomever. Not whomever is owed the money would have to pay the government back.

I'm one of those who'd like to see congress lose their paychecks in a shut down. They'd learn to compromise then. Buncha babies. Can't even do their jobs. Let's fire them all.

I didn't say activist weren't getting paid. The military was suppose to take IOU's, but Obama used an executive order to stop that and give them regular pay, but some non-essential reservest are not being paid right now. Hell they suspended reservist school funding a few months back, I dont even know if they ever re-enstated the funding for school.

Ok so yes Non-essential Reservist ARE NOT GETTING PAID! Will post link later
FTW: http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/228029/37/NY-National-Guard-Furloughs-1500-Civilians
http://www.koin.com/2013/10/01/1000-ore-military-employees-furloughed/

Bottom line:Active Military gets paid, Non-Essential reservist are furlough aka not getting paid.

[shuriken]

It's mostly "non-essential" government workers who wind up furloughed. If anyone should have their pay withheld, it should be ALL of Congress...they seem pretty "non-essential" to me at the moment.


YES. That's what I was thiking when I read about the shutdown.

[Lethal Lullaby]

My mom still has to go to work, but she isn't getting paid until this ends, too.

So the Congress still is getting paid, but they can't even do their bloody jobs? And is it true what i hear? That they're shutting it down longer then last time? (based upon what i saw in CyberCubed's post when he mentioned when the last one was)

[Jester]

My mom still has to go to work, but she isn't getting paid until this ends, too.

So the Congress still is getting paid, but they can't even do their bloody jobs? And is it true what i hear? That they're shutting it down longer then last time? (based upon what i saw in CyberCubed's post when he mentioned when the last one was)
No one really knows how long it's gonna stay shuttered. If neither side can concede, then it may be a long time.

[Nameless]

"Sorry Folks the governments Closed. The moose outside should have told you"

[papa_smurf73]

I normally don't speak my mind about politics.... but... Found out today that my Dad is affected by this. It pains me to know that my father served in our military and retired as a master sergeant. He spent 2 years in Iraq (one for desert storm), and the other as part of his duty in the military. He's more than put his life on the line for our country, but the moment he comes back to civilian life, and things are somewhat starting to level out for him, he's laid off. WTF... Our government is acting like a bunch of children who aren't getting their way. Of course, my Dad is only one of thousands affected by this, and I'm just as upset about everyone else's situation, but this just sends me over the edge.

Not to mention, a friend of mine casually, and ignorantly says, "I'm glad the govt. is shutting down non-essential functions." Frustrates me to no end.

When I told my dad how I felt about everything that's happening, his response was simply, "write your congressman, and make sure you vote". Humbling, and makes me sad at the same time. I hope this ends sooner than later so that everyone affected by this can return to some level of normalcy.

If you're reading this and you're personally affected by what is happening, "Thank you for your service, and you're in my thoughts for sure."

Sorry for the rant.

[Luke795]

"Sorry Folks the governments Closed. The moose outside should have told you"

That made me laugh.

[Redeemer]

Shots just fired at the capital
watching MSNBC right now.
And there saying there is a car chase???

[Sofistocat]

Shots just fired at the capital
watching MSNBC right now.
And there saying there is a car chase???

Supposedly towards the HOR side of the capitol bldg. Sounds like a democrat fired a shot across the GOP bow...

[plastroncafe]

No one really knows how long it's gonna stay shuttered. If neither side can concede, then it may be a long time.

There's nothing to concede, is the problem.
The GOP is trying to overturn three year old legislation with a budget extension.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, just heard about the whole Capitol shots thing. Turns out the police were shooting at a woman who tried to run them down and even injured a Capitol police officer. Not sure if she was doing this in protest of the shutdown or what was going on.

[Redeemer]

There's nothing to concede, is the problem.
The GOP is trying to overturn three year old legislation with a budget extension.

Yep sounds about right. ughh hopefully they will be able to get the spending bill passed.

[Barkworm]

One of the most reputable German newspapers had "USA in the hand of extremists" as their major headline this Tuesday. Seems sensational but also sums up the situation pretty well.

[Crabfight]

Not to mention, a friend of mine casually, and ignorantly says, "I'm glad the govt. is shutting down non-essential functions." Frustrates me to no end.

This. And it's coming from our flippin'* media sources! One such news outlet was discussing how life seems to be running normally since the shut down and even went as far as to suggest the possibility that the amount of "nonessential" jobs contributed to the shutdown.

The notion that there are any Americans at all that aren't furious about this boggles my mind. These are people's livelihoods that are being messed* with, for pete's* sake! This thing HAS to be settled by October 17th or poop'll* really hit the fan, and though I'm certain that it WILL be resolved by then, it is ridiculous how close to that date our representatives are willing to let it get.

*It was very difficult for me to use these words. I had others in mind.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

So what exactly caused the government to be shut down?

Is it something to do with money, or is it political matters?

[愛]

Congress needs to set a budget for the year by October 1st (the beginning of the fiscal year for the government?) or else they have to shut it all down. Guess which one happened?

[Sofistocat]

Congress needs to set a budget for the year by October 1st (the beginning of the fiscal year for the government?) or else they have to shut it all down. Guess which one happened?

It's sad that a Japanese dromer knows the real answer to this and 9/10 americans, when asked, would probably say it's over Obamacare.

Let's hear it for Japanese intellect! Japan, one of the many places I'm considering when I renounce my US citizenship... :tsad:

[愛]

I'm from New Jersey. LOL

[plastroncafe]

9/10 of Americans would be right, this is because of Obamacare.
The budget extension sent from the GOP controlled House of Representatives to the Democratic controlled Senate had language added to it that would push back the implementation of the ACA.

But by all means, renounce that citizenship.

[Sofistocat]

I'm from New Jersey. LOL

+1

9/10 of Americans would be right, this is because of Obamacare.
The budget extension sent from the GOP controlled House of Representatives to the Democratic controlled Senate had language added to it that would push back the implementation of the ACA.

But by all means, renounce that citizenship.

I feel 愛's response was the the correct response, Obamacare is just the catalyst for the posturing. Dem's knew this was going to happen. Just another prime example our legislative/electoral process could benefit from change...

Regardless, Obamacare is a law passed in 2009. If the standard political process has resorted to waiting until there are enough members of your party to think you can make a stink years after the fact, then so be it. I don't agree with Obamacare, but have no choice to accept it's a legislative fact.

Maybe if the GOP had practiced better politics back when ACA was on the floor of congress, they wouldn't be where they are now. They didn't, blame Bush for the dem's takeover of Congress instead of themselves and this is we we are today. This country has become quite comfortable living beyond it's means. Giving out more than you take in = failure any way you look at it...

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/cm-45336-050f8b2ba4c916.gif

[plastroncafe]

The Failure of the American system as I see it is the collective acceptance of a world in which "I've got mine, screw you!" is considered to be sound public policy.

愛's response is correct, and succinct, but it also lacks reference to those responsible for our current Government Shutdown, which I think does the conversation as a whole a disservice.

The fact remains that by your estimation 9/10 Americans are still right, and that this shut down is due to the ACA.

I know you may be against the ACA, but if you're not currently insured, you should really consider checking out the marketplace. That way should, god forbid, something catastrophic happen to you health wise....you won't need to rely on your fellow tax payer to cover your costs.

[愛]

I'm not part of the conversation, because I can't form a good opinion on all of this. I was just trying to tell him why it's shut down.

[Sofistocat]

I'm not part of the conversation, because I can't form a good opinion on all of this. I was just trying to tell him why it's shut down.

No worries, we know...

---

I agree with you plastron, to the T. I have worked very hard at my career for over 10 years and have what some consider "Cadillac" heath care. I very much can relate to the "got mine, screw you", despite being very much against it and truely believing helping your fellow man is why we are here. This whole "let's put everybody into one social class by providing for those who can't make it there on their own accord" idea is absurd to me. It used to be called "earning" a living, not "expecting" a living.

I see your point in ACA's responsibility for the shutdown, but want people to not be bogged down by it all. Yes it's responsible, but I feel ALOT of people are looking at that solely and not all the other things that had a part in this. Ultimately I want taxpayer to see this as a wake up call the next time they pass by their voting office on November 4th and don't stop.

As far as the "Marketplace" goes, I really think it's a disservice that the gov't is helping facilitate a for-profit industry that is truely the most responsible party for this mess.

This statement is pointed at nobody:

If you can surf the Marketplace for free/affordable insurance in lieu of looking for a better job, or a job at all, you may want to reevaluate your priorities to not include the sense of entitlement that many US residents(legal/un-documented) have happily acclimated to. Working for you, your family and what you believe in is a notion being grossly discarded in today's society.

[Katie]

Not every job out there offers insurance. Even "good jobs" sometimes don't offer it.

Not everyone can get approved for insurance because of those pre-existing health conditions. not all pre-existing health conditions are something a person can plan for. (Think being born with cerebral palsy....having multiple sclerosis.....being diagnosed with cancer)

If you do get insurance and you have or have had a major illness you may not be able to afford what you are offered.

Don't assume that someone is lazy if they are having to research to find an affordable policy. Don't assume that everyone who doesn't have insurance is in a low level job.

[Jester]

Yeah, the Preexisting Conditions bit is probably the best part of the bill...considering even things like medication controlled depression count as a "preexisting condition."

And just because your employer has health insurance doesn't mean it's GOOD insurance. I have insurance through my job (mainly for my wife, as I'm fairly healthy and she needs her 2 to 3 visits a year if only to check the dosage of her meds.) that's over 1/3 of my pay...and it covers nearly nothing. So when open enrollment was available we looked at getting it outside my job (from the same company even) and were denied because of the depression. We are definitely gonna look into finding cheaper insurance outside of work now that the major hurdle is gone.

[plastroncafe]

You know what I'd like, Sofistocat? To have my healthcare not dictated by my employment status. You know, the way things used to be before the wage freezes that followed WWII. If I wasn't so damn dependent on having health care through my employer, and could feasibly buy it on my own, I could do what I really want to do for a living, and not what I have to do to make ends meet.

I'm quite glad you have the Cadillac of insurance plans offered by your employer. That means I'm far less likely to have to bail you out should you find yourself ill and unable to make your health care payments. If there's one thing that chafes me so it's having my hard earned tax money go to people who insist that the word "entitlement" is somehow a slur.

I do agree with you though about the voting thing. I just hope that when people go to the polls they remember that the GOP is the one that left 800,000 hardworking American Government employees out in the cold because they decided playing at politics was more important to them than the health and well being of the people who put them into office in the first place.

I just hope they don't listen to you and show up at the polls on November 4th, because...that's not when elections are this year. They're on the 5th. They're always on the first Tuesday of the first full week in November. I know because I work a 16 hour day that day, at my third job as an Election Warden.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I'm so glad i don't live in america.

The UK government seems fine, so far

[Katie]

As much as I think the shutdown is idiotic, part of me does hope that it lasts through election day if for no other reason that it will get people to go vote.

Also, the GOP is so sure that America doesn't want Obamacare? It's not gonna change by holding the govenment hostage. Let it go into effect. If they are so sure everyone will hate it, let it fail. People will vote for them to get rid of it. Instead they are acting like ignorant babies and sealing their own fates.

[blindturtle02]

As much as I think the shutdown is idiotic, part of me does hope that it lasts through election day if for no other reason that it will get people to go vote.

Also, the GOP is so sure that America doesn't want Obamacare? It's not gonna change by holding the govenment hostage. Let it go into effect. If they are so sure everyone will hate it, let it fail. People will vote for them to get rid of it. Instead they are acting like ignorant babies and sealing their own fates.

It would be nice if people decided to cast their votes more often. My mom would always get so ticked off at my grandpa because he'd always complain about the government, but he never voted a day in his life. I think voting is quite fun especially since they have this computer with built in screen reading tech for totally blind folks such as myself to access in order to vote without some random person marking you down for who knows what?

[BubblyShell22]

Sorry. Nothing will make me vote unless they implement something where politicians have to take lie detector tests to see if they're telling the truth about their issues and what they want to do. If they pass, they can keep on going with their campaign. If they fail, they can't go on. Maybe that would be better than us just putting blind faith in these people and believing all their empty headed promises they spout.

[blindturtle02]

Good idea Bubblyshell lol! Lie detector tests should definitely be brought into play. I keep picturing the following scene in my head but I'd certainly feel safer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TZ8Z5S9rI

I think the first person to take the test should be our uh highly esteemed governer here in Texas. Man I'd love to sit in on that one.

[blindturtle02]

I'm so glad i don't live in america.

The UK government seems fine, so far

Yeah man, you ain't kidding. It's such a joke over here right now. It's like everybody in congress decided to have this big wild party, got drunk, participated in a mud wrestling competition, then took a bunch of goofball pills to wash all the booze down while joining in a flash mob. That's about the best I can do when summarizing the current state of our government. I'm betting Obama goes out of office at the end of this Presidential term looking quite a bit older than he should.

[Katie]

Sorry. Nothing will make me vote unless they implement something where politicians have to take lie detector tests to see if they're telling the truth about their issues and what they want to do. If they pass, they can keep on going with their campaign. If they fail, they can't go on. Maybe that would be better than us just putting blind faith in these people and believing all their empty headed promises they spout.

The thing is, most politicians are decent people. Most really do believe that they can change the status quo and most believe they can help people and make a difference. They are human. Humans can fail and they aren't perfect. One thing they all have in common is that they don't know how the job works until they get elected.

They want to lower taxes and save poor people.....until they realize what exactly all those idealistic things involve....what it affects......and why it probably can't be done.

[BubblyShell22]

Sorry, I beg to differ on that. I believe that most politicians are in it for themselves. I would start voting if these changes were implemented:

1. The lie detector tests as I said before. I think that would be a good idea to weed out who really does care about the American people and which ones are only in it for themselves and the money because it seems to me that most of them are in it for themselves and for the money they get for campaigning and the like.

2. Stop showing negative campaign ads because frankly, those just make it seem like politicians are immature bullies. "Hey, look at how my opponent sucks and why you should vote for me." Keep the positive ads there and let voters decide based on that.

3. Everyone in Congress and up should be subjected to the same laws they pass on the rest of us and they shouldn't have the big perks either. In the event of a government shutdown, all of them should have their pay revoked until they can come to an agreement. Furthermore, if they don't come to an agreement in a certain amount of time, they get fired. That's how it would be in any other job.

4. Stop the lobbying or at least make it so they don't get paid for it. None of them should be paid until they actually reach whatever office they're campaigning for. That's the way it should be.

5. As far as it goes with terms, I think that whether a President is up for re-election should be based on the approval rating of the people. If the approval rating is down after the end of that term, the President shouldn't be re-elected. I also believe that Congress should get terms as well and only be able to serve either one or two terms before they are not allowed to run anymore. Maybe that would help with all of the stuff that's been going on.

6. Presidents and other politicians running for a certain office shouldn't be allowed to vote for themselves as I think that's very unfair. When they vote, they should be exempt from voting for whatever they are running for so that things stay fair.

So, until things like this happen, I refuse to vote, and I refuse to believe that politicians are really in it for the people when we all know they're in it for themselves. That's my two cents on it.

[plastroncafe]

Might I suggest then that the proper course of action not be to not vote at all, but rather to vote every election and cast your ballot as a write-in: no confidence. Here's the thing, you may think that you're taking a stand by not voting, but you forget that the only people who are listened to are the ones who speak up.

The bad guys don't want you to vote. They're depending on you not to vote. They're going out of their way to make it so you can't vote.

Not liking who is on the ballot is a poor excuse for not voting is essentially what I'm saying.

[PAAATE]

1. The lie detector tests as I said before. I think that would be a good idea to weed out who really does care about the American people and which ones are only in it for themselves and the money because it seems to me that most of them are in it for themselves and for the money they get for campaigning and the like.

Lie detectors aren't necessarily trustworthy. Also, do you know how hard politicians work? "No one" does it for the money. You have to be passionate about it.

2. Stop showing negative campaign ads because frankly, those just make it seem like politicians are immature bullies. "Hey, look at how my opponent sucks and why you should vote for me." Keep the positive ads there and let voters decide based on that.

Can't disagree on that.

3. Everyone in Congress and up should be subjected to the same laws they pass on the rest of us and they shouldn't have the big perks either. In the event of a government shutdown, all of them should have their pay revoked until they can come to an agreement. Furthermore, if they don't come to an agreement in a certain amount of time, they get fired. That's how it would be in any other job.

Can't disagree. Well, maybe not fired. Wouldn't that be kinda dangerous for society?

5. As far as it goes with terms, I think that whether a President is up for re-election should be based on the approval rating of the people. If the approval rating is down after the end of that term, the President shouldn't be re-elected. I also believe that Congress should get terms as well and only be able to serve either one or two terms before they are not allowed to run anymore. Maybe that would help with all of the stuff that's been going on.

Oh no, statistics can't rule. There's a margin of error in that, and that's certainly dangerous.

6. Presidents and other politicians running for a certain office shouldn't be allowed to vote for themselves as I think that's very unfair. When they vote, they should be exempt from voting for whatever they are running for so that things stay fair.

That would mean someone's actually checking who they vote for, and I don't know about the US., but that would be illegal here in Sweden. But like I said, maybe not in the US. I dunno.

[Redeemer]

Lie detectors aren't necessarily trustworthy. Also, do you know how hard politicians work? "No one" does it for the money. You have to be passionate about it.


No the Interms and staff work their ass off. Politicians are basically public speakers. Politician do not have the hardest job in the world.

And also whats this crap about not doing it for the money??? If you serve one term in the Senate you get all of your childrens college paid for. You have free healthcare. You get salary for LIFE (Well Almost). They can double dip into (FERS) and social security. They get paid 80% of their salary for the rest of their life starting at 62 and at age fifty? I believe if they four terms.
But regardless they may go into politics for the passion, but most, not all have money in mind.

[PAAATE]

No the Interms and staff work their ass off. Politicians are basically public speakers. Politician do not have the hardest job in the world.

And also whats this crap about not doing it for the money??? If you serve one term in the Senate you get all of your childrens college paid for. You have free healthcare. You get salary for LIFE (Well Almost). They can double dip into (FERS) and social security. They get paid 80% of their salary for the rest of their life starting at 62 and at age fifty? I believe if they four terms.
But regardless they may go into politics for the passion, but most, not all have money in mind.

Ok, sure, I might have gone overboard on that one. Then again, different cultures.

I had no idea about all those perks. Free college and health care is already a thing for everyone here, and I never even imagined that it works like that in the US.

Whatever. When you say it like that, sure, you might be right ;)

[Redeemer]

Ok, sure, I might have gone overboard on that one. Then again, different cultures.

I had no idea about all those perks. Free college and health care is already a thing for everyone here, and I never even imagined that it works like that in the US.

Whatever. When you say it like that, sure, you might be right ;)

Definately different in cultures. Our local (City of Columbus) school superintendent (Perso in charge of schools) was caught stealing money and fudging the numbers. And the saddest thing about all this??? She already make $206,000 a year!!!! and whats worse! our governer make $142,000 she make more than the person running the whole damn state!!!!

Politics 9/10 are out to make money first and help the people second.....

You guys get free healthcare and college over there you say??? Maybe my family and I should move back to sweden ;)

[BubblyShell22]

Might I suggest then that the proper course of action not be to not vote at all, but rather to vote every election and cast your ballot as a write-in: no confidence. Here's the thing, you may think that you're taking a stand by not voting, but you forget that the only people who are listened to are the ones who speak up.

The bad guys don't want you to vote. They're depending on you not to vote. They're going out of their way to make it so you can't vote.

Not liking who is on the ballot is a poor excuse for not voting is essentially what I'm saying.

No, it's a perfect excuse. Sure, there may be write in candidates, but it doesn't matter because those are essentially ignored, especially in a presidential election. Even if I were to vote for an independent candidate or a liberatarian candidate, it wouldn't matter because all they care about is either the Democrat or the Republican candidate to win. So, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm going to politely decline.

[Jester]

But Bubbly....it's your voice. Even if the 2 major parties "always" win, it might put a fire under them to see 3rd party options getting higher and higher election results every year. It'd be a sign that The People are growing more and more dissatisfied with them. It may be one way to put the fear of God into people who at best want what they feel is best their small segment of America and at worst just want what's good for them.

You vote to let your voice be heard...even if it's just a whisper in the screaming throngs of the 2 Party System.

[Katie]

Yup exactly. At one time there were no republicans. There were whigs. Don't have those anymore. Was a major party at one time. Presidents even. People stopped backing them. Party died.

But I fear we're speaking to a brick wall. Some people are very content to let the rest of us dictate their lives with our voices.

[plastroncafe]

No, it's a perfect excuse. Sure, there may be write in candidates, but it doesn't matter because those are essentially ignored, especially in a presidential election. Even if I were to vote for an independent candidate or a liberatarian candidate, it wouldn't matter because all they care about is either the Democrat or the Republican candidate to win. So, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm going to politely decline.

First of all, the only people who get ignored on election day are the one's who don't show up.
Secondly, no one's individual vote counts in a Presidential Race because that race isn't decided by popular vote, but by Electoral.

The races that are actually important, the ones that impact your daily lives, are the local municipal and State/Commonwealth elections. Those would be the ones held every November, and very rarely involve party politics at all.

So...yeah, sorry. By not voting you're only really hurting your own cause.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Sorry. Nothing will make me vote unless they implement something where politicians have to take lie detector tests to see if they're telling the truth about their issues and what they want to do. If they pass, they can keep on going with their campaign. If they fail, they can't go on. Maybe that would be better than us just putting blind faith in these people and believing all their empty headed promises they spout.

I've got a feeling that most politicians would be good enough liars to trick the lie detector.:)

[Leo656]

The reason I laugh when people blame one party or the other for "what's wrong" is that all politicians are jagoffs. The second the cameras are off, almost all of them head right to the same strip clubs with the same "paid escorts" and do the same cocaine with rolled-up bills they got from OUR taxes. So many Democrats and Republicans even have the same speechwriters, it's ridiculous. F*ck 'em all. It's all a huge work, even this "shut-down" is just something they staged to get normally-complacent people impassioned leading into an election season. How convenient is it that so many people who usually have nothing to say about politics are suddenly so deeply invested in it? It's all a game to our Corporate Masters. None of it affects them, so it's theater. They don't care what happens to The Little Guy? Sh*t, what else is new?

Anybody who wants to "save the world" joins the Peace Corps. Nobody who wears a suit for a living is doing it for ANYONE but themselves.

[Jester]

Can't say I disagree with most of that....

[Crabfight]

The reason I laugh when people blame one party or the other for "what's wrong" is that all politicians are jagoffs. The second the cameras are off, almost all of them head right to the same strip clubs with the same "paid escorts" and do the same cocaine with rolled-up bills they got from OUR taxes. So many Democrats and Republicans even have the same speechwriters, it's ridiculous. F*ck 'em all. It's all a huge work, even this "shut-down" is just something they staged to get normally-complacent people impassioned leading into an election season. How convenient is it that so many people who usually have nothing to say about politics are suddenly so deeply invested in it? It's all a game to our Corporate Masters. None of it affects them, so it's theater. They don't care what happens to The Little Guy? Sh*t, what else is new?

Anybody who wants to "save the world" joins the Peace Corps. Nobody who wears a suit for a living is doing it for ANYONE but themselves.

**Disclaimer: This isn't solely directed at you, Leo; some of my points are also in response to some posts before yours.

Your disillusionment is completely understandable, but sweeping generalizations are rarely, if ever, accurate. I have a wife studying policy now with a mind to enter politics in order to make the changes she believes to be necessary in our government. MANY politicians start on this road, and the assumption that they all end up being "jagoffs" is a bit too simplistic of an explanation for me. Heck, I live in Texas, one of the most frustrating states in the union when it comes to politics, and it's not hard to find good people who care about each other trying to make change in politics.

The unfortunate result that an enormous percentage of our higher up representatives are taking advantage of us for their own personal gain is, at least in part, the result of voter ignorance and apathy. We put them there and most of us never raised a single concern when more and more legislation that entrenched money further and further into our political model got passed.

Are there a lot of jagoffs in politics? No doubt. Do they come from all sides? Absolutely. And I wouldn't go as far as to say it's solely the fault of the American people, but the plan of "Welp, nothing we can do now" is, in my humble opinion, not a good one. I think people should absolutely be involved in making the decisions that affect their lives. America's system is just that, a system. In my opinion, it's better than some countries' system and worse than other countries'.

Also, there's a bit of irony in your using the Peace Corps as an alternative for doing good in the world. That, too, is a program that has a lot of great people in it, but has received lots of criticism due to a few in the spotlight taking advantage of their positions of power, as well as a model that can, at times, be damaging to the people it's trying to help.

P.S. - Bah! I don't wanna make my post too long, but I forgot to mention that if I were to vilify a single profession (though I should definitely take my own advice and not generalize), I'd be tempted to blame the modern media. They (in many cases) are the ones who are perfectly happy to abandon the tenets of their noble profession in order to make them g's.

[BubblyShell22]

But Bubbly....it's your voice. Even if the 2 major parties "always" win, it might put a fire under them to see 3rd party options getting higher and higher election results every year. It'd be a sign that The People are growing more and more dissatisfied with them. It may be one way to put the fear of God into people who at best want what they feel is best their small segment of America and at worst just want what's good for them.

You vote to let your voice be heard...even if it's just a whisper in the screaming throngs of the 2 Party System.

That may be, but most of the time, third party candidates don't even get majority of the votes like I said. It would be a waste of time, and I'm not going to waste my time holing up in a booth and voting for people who really don't count in the general scheme of things since the majority of Americans vote either Democrat or Republican.

Yup exactly. At one time there were no republicans. There were whigs. Don't have those anymore. Was a major party at one time. Presidents even. People stopped backing them. Party died.

But I fear we're speaking to a brick wall. Some people are very content to let the rest of us dictate their lives with our voices.

Yep, you are. I'm not going to vote because the desire's not there and never has been. Besides, if you guys want to vote, that's fine. You can let your voice be heard because you vote for one specific party and your voice WILL be heard. Mine won't no matter what anyone thinks. Screw it.

First of all, the only people who get ignored on election day are the one's who don't show up.
Secondly, no one's individual vote counts in a Presidential Race because that race isn't decided by popular vote, but by Electoral.

The races that are actually important, the ones that impact your daily lives, are the local municipal and State/Commonwealth elections. Those would be the ones held every November, and very rarely involve party politics at all.

So...yeah, sorry. By not voting you're only really hurting your own cause.

No, I'm being smart about it because I'm not going to blindly follow anyone. And even those small elections don't matter to me because I just don't care about any of them. They're meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but then again. anything involving politics is.


The reason I laugh when people blame one party or the other for "what's wrong" is that all politicians are jagoffs. The second the cameras are off, almost all of them head right to the same strip clubs with the same "paid escorts" and do the same cocaine with rolled-up bills they got from OUR taxes. So many Democrats and Republicans even have the same speechwriters, it's ridiculous. F*ck 'em all. It's all a huge work, even this "shut-down" is just something they staged to get normally-complacent people impassioned leading into an election season. How convenient is it that so many people who usually have nothing to say about politics are suddenly so deeply invested in it? It's all a game to our Corporate Masters. None of it affects them, so it's theater. They don't care what happens to The Little Guy? Sh*t, what else is new?

Anybody who wants to "save the world" joins the Peace Corps. Nobody who wears a suit for a living is doing it for ANYONE but themselves.

Definitely agree with you, Leo. Half of the politicians are lying when they say they're for America. Even if they act like they are, a lot of them turn around and change what they said during their campaign and pretty much sh*t on all of us. Obama is a good example of that, and Congress isn't doing much better with it. But whatever. If you guys want to buy into the political B.S. and vote, that's your business. I'm going to stay far away from it because I feel that's the best thing I can do.

And back on topic of the shutdown, did you guys hear that the Amber Alert website was shut down because of all of this? Seems ridiculous to have something as important as that shut down when there are tons of missing kids out there who need to be found.

[plastroncafe]

And back on topic of the shutdown, did you guys hear that the Amber Alert website was shut down because of all of this? Seems ridiculous to have something as important as that shut down when there are tons of missing kids out there who need to be found.

Don't worry, those kids are "...meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but then again. anything involving politics is."

One party is responsible for the shut down, and we should be holding them, and anyone who voted to put them in power or didn't vote at all accountable.
The Shutdown could end today, if House Speaker Boehner brought a clean Budget Extension bill to the floor for a vote, but he won't because he knows it'll be the end of his GOP political career.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, looks like Boehner isn't going to budge on this one. Obama just held a news conference concerning this and pretty much said that if Boehner would just let Congress have the floor and vote on this, it would be done. However, he's probably not going to because he's an idiot. They tried this sh*t before Obamacare was signed into law, and it didn't work, so it's pointless to do this now when you know you can't repeal the law once it's been signed. You have to wait for a period of time before you can do anything. These guys need to just use common sense.

As for who voted them in, no one will know, so you can't really hold anyone responsible for that since the voting is top secret. Best thing we can do is just hope that this will get resolved soon, though I'm not going to get my hopes up.

[Crabfight]

As much as I think the shutdown is idiotic, part of me does hope that it lasts through election day if for no other reason that it will get people to go vote.

I would totally agree with this sentiment if the debt limit deadline weren't earlier than Election Day. Letting October 17th pass while we're in shutdown mode would be terrible for us.

So yeah. Hopefully people have a memory longer than half a month...

[Leo656]

I hear ya, brah, but the fact is "The System" eats idealists for breakfast. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," as the saying goes. I've watched people go from moderate means to having lots of money and how it *completely* changes them, to say nothing of what happens when someone with the best of intentions becomes part of "The System". Because no matter what they say, no matter which misbehaving politician they throw to the wolves every so often to prove there's SOME form of "accountability", it's all nonsense. When you reach the upper levels of the American Political System, you are essentially free to do whatever you want, whenever you want, to whoever you want, for the rest of your friggin' LIFE, and as long as you know how to assuage your constituents, you can go to your grave with a big Thumbs Up from the public. And there is NO way to handle that and remain a decent, noble, honest person, not when *every single part of your job*, every single day, involves lying to people to suit your own ends. No matter what people *want* to do when they get into politics, by the time they're done, they're all the same. That overwhelming power combined with lack of any and all consequence is just too powerful to overcome.

Case in point, Teddy Kennedy killed someone! Beyond any shadow of a doubt, a person who, were they you or I, would have been punished *severely* for what they had done, not only received pretty much NO punishment at all, but went on to have a SPECTACULAR political career, and most people still think he was a helluva guy, "Except for, y'know, that one little thing." A lot of these are the same people who will wax poetic about how O.J. Simpson was a phenomenal athlete and overall great human being, "Except for, y'know, that double-murder thing. But other than THAT, he was a helluva guy!" Point being, when we're "trained" to look up to, trust, and idealize these fallible, corruptible human beings, we tend to let them get away with a LOT of bullsh*t.

So I simply don't think you can change The System from within, I think The System is too powerful and people are too easily swayed by money and power. It's not like there's some group of people out there anywhere on Earth who can turn down millions (potentially billions over a lifetime) of dollars in income and favors, along with the ability to live a life free of punishment and consequence, provided you don't make any enemies among your own political party. Politicians are only human, and humans aren't just fallible, they're essentially hard-wired to be selfish and dishonest. The very *worst* of them, ascend to the top of the heap and become "Our Leaders". The idealists are either "turned to the Dark Side" or otherwise gotten rid of because they hold back the Big Machine.

So I don't vote and never plan to. Choosing "The Lesser of Two Evils" Isn't how I roll. If I don't believe in something or someone 100%, I don't put my stamp on it. If I see someone who seems to have the same values as I do, and I think they're not *entirely* full of sh*t, I may change my mind. I'm not above changing my mind. But so far, all I've ever seen is sh*t on top of sh*t, where whenever anyone votes all they ever say in defense of their pick is, "Well, at least they're not (The Opposing Candidate)," and that kind of weak, "Hold your nose and pick one" method of choosing the people who are supposed to LEAD us is frankly disgusting to me. I don't need to vote to make my voice heard. I have YouTube and a Facebook page, I'm real easy to find, and my message to our corporate overlords is "F*CK YOU." The last time anyone in America successfully enacted any real change and sent a message to their Masters, they didn't do it by voting, they did it by dressing up like Indians and dumping a bunch of tea into Boston Harbor. *That* is how you send a message that you're fed up. Not by writing a name on a piece of paper in some pre-determined farcical demonstration of make-believe democracy, and not by sitting outside a building on Wall Street holding signs.

Then again, this dude always explained it better than I ever could. This hits the nail on the head, and to me, is the only logical argument one can make about our electoral process...
07w9K2XR3f0

[Katie]

I would totally agree with this sentiment if the debt limit deadline weren't earlier than Election Day. Letting October 17th pass while we're in shutdown mode would be terrible for us.

So yeah. Hopefully people have a memory longer than half a month...

It would be terrible for us regardless. I believe someone will blink before that happens. Neither side wants austerity to kick in. That would KILL the economy. (See: Europe)

Also, totally glad so many of my fellow americans are so totally happy with the choices I'm making and the people I'm choosing to lead the country that they feel no need to override my vote with theirs. Awesome feeling! :-)

[BubblyShell22]

Leo, I agree with you one hundred percent, and you pretty much summed up why I never plan to vote.

And, Katie, why should it matter? I think voting is stupid and really would be better if the politicians themselves didn't get to vote for themselves. Then we'd see a fair system. And like Leo said, most politicians go in one way and then totally change their tune about things when it's all said and done. As we know, our illustrious president is a big example of this and how he said certain things on his campaign trail that definitely haven't been followed through.

It was funny because when Obama said, "We look pretty bad to the rest of the world right now," I yelled at the TV, "Then why don't you just nix your stupid healthcare act since that's the cause of all this sh*t, you idiot?" I had to turn the channel because I pretty much couldn't stand to listen to Obama go on and on and continue to lie. Guy needs to be impeached.

[愛]

I have a feeling this is going to go the wrong way soon, so I should interject and say be civil and understanding of opinions here. We're already bending the rules by allowing this thread.

[The Stryker]

It was funny because when Obama said, "We look pretty bad to the rest of the world right now," I yelled at the TV, "Then why don't you just nix your stupid healthcare act since that's the cause of all this sh*t, you idiot?" I had to turn the channel because I pretty much couldn't stand to listen to Obama go on and on and continue to lie. Guy needs to be impeached.

So you're mad at him because he is sticking to his guns on a plan and promise he made during his campaign?

Isn't that exactly what you want politicians to do? Do what they say?

[Redeemer]

It was funny because when Obama said, "We look pretty bad to the rest of the world right now," I yelled at the TV, "Then why don't you just nix your stupid healthcare act since that's the cause of all this sh*t, you idiot?" I had to turn the channel because I pretty much couldn't stand to listen to Obama go on and on and continue to lie. Guy needs to be impeached.

Well katie truthfully I flirt with the republican side of things (Actually independent) but I actually like a few things about Obama care such as...
1. You now cannot be denied insurance for pre-existing conditions.
2. A young adult can stay on their parents healthcare until there 26 now no matter what. I believe it used to be that 24 and you had to be a full time student.

These two are especially good for me. I am currently not in school and I have not been for a year bc I ran out of money bc I broke a vertabrea while working.

And I have severe injuries from a car wreck and I have a genetic disorder when Im older a insurance company would have been able to deny me bc they were pre-existing injuries, cant do that now.

What I dont like is that people will get fined if they do not have health insurance and the fact that for major surgery the deductable is 4500$ dollars and that it does NOT roll-over.

Truthfully I believe that the insurance should just be taken out of taxes.
The healthcare plan is not perfect, but is a good start.

[plastroncafe]

Also, totally glad so many of my fellow americans are so totally happy with the choices I'm making and the people I'm choosing to lead the country that they feel no need to override my vote with theirs. Awesome feeling! :-)

Yup, pretty much.

I really truly wish I was lucky enough to be one of those people who so easily fit into the constructed norm that I didn't have to vote. Must be awesome, really.

[BubblyShell22]

So you're mad at him because he is sticking to his guns on a plan and promise he made during his campaign?

Isn't that exactly what you want politicians to do? Do what they say?

Yes, but I want politicians to be for the people and care about them. Obama doesn't, and it shows within this act. I agree that the pre-existing condition clause and the clause about kids being on their parents' insurance is the only good thing to come out of this, but there are a lot of bad things that are in this bill, mainly that people are forced to have health insurance when this stupid bill is going to make insurance cost more to even get. But then again, this is what comes of the mindless idiots who passed this stupid bill without reading it first. If they had read it first, they would have seen what was in it and would have been able to repeal it, but their excuse is that they couldn't pass it without reading it first, which is a load of B.S. If they really cared about us and what we wanted, they would have read it first. These people aren't using common sense, and that's the problem. Obama is the same way in that he thinks forcing people to get health insurance will change things, but you can't do that in a poor economy, and many hospitals are only opting for one type of insurance for low income families anyway.

So, no, I don't agree with this bill and if you have to blame anybody, blame the idiots who supported it and didn't read the damn thing first before passing it.

And I believe that by refusing to vote, I am taking in stand in that I don't approve of what politicians do and that I see through their lies. I think the best thing we can do is just refuse to vote one Election Day to show our disapproval of how things are being run. Maybe then they'd get the message that we aren't going to buy into their B.S. and that they'd better start being honest about their policies and a lot fairer about them, too.

That's my opinion on it. You don't have to agree with me, but that's what I feel. I march to the beat of my own drum and don't follow the herd like so many others when it comes to politics. I'm not trying to stir debate but just stating my opinion. I don't care if you vote and feel you can let your voice be heard that way. I do things my way, and that's the way I'm going to continue to do it. Plain and simple.

[Candy Kappa]

Redning all this... The new Norwegian government doesn't seem all that bad, really.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, and I thought politics was crazy everywhere.

[Andrew NDB]

If the government shutdown in some way interfered or shut down the production on TMNT Part 5 then I might have some feelings about it one way or the other (good feelings, in that case).

[Barkworm]

It was funny because when Obama said, "We look pretty bad to the rest of the world right now," I yelled at the TV, "Then why don't you just nix your stupid healthcare act since that's the cause of all this sh*t, you idiot?" I had to turn the channel because I pretty much couldn't stand to listen to Obama go on and on and continue to lie. Guy needs to be impeached.

Hahaha. Wow.

[LordShredder]

Not going to lie I think they are really having a party in there. I mean why else haven't they figured this mess out?

On a serious note I'm sorry to say this but I think the U.S. has taken so many hits it will never be the power house it once was.

[CyberCubed]

This is still going on? I haven't been paying any attention since it first happened.

I'd laugh if it takes into next year to "open" the government.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, still going on as far as I know. They're trying to get it resolved, but I don't know if it'll get resolved right away.

And, LS, I agree with you. My biggest fear is that this shutdown will make any countries who have seen us as their ally may not want to be friends with us because they figure that if we can't even agree on our own stuff, they may see us as untrustworthy.

[Jester]

What I think is ridiculous is some things they are shutting down take more money to "shutdown" than it does to leave them open. I mean, closing open air monuments? Are we serious?

[BubblyShell22]

I agree, but this IS the government we're talking about here. They don't have common sense to do anything right. I'll be surprised if they come up with an agreement about the debt ceiling in a few days not to mention if they'll even resolve the whole Obamacare issue, but I don't have hopes on that one.

[Katie]

What exactly is there to "resolve" on Obamacare? It was passed into law....it was upheld by the Supreme Court when it was challenged...

The only way to change it at this point is to pass legislation repealing it and guess what? That's not gonna happen unless both halves of Congress have enough votes to pass and override a veto. Which they don't have at the moment.

So basically, all this tacking on of anti-Obamacare riders on the budget is idiotic. Again, if Republicans are so confidant that people hate Obamacare, let it go into effect. If it is a disaster, the mid term elections are next year and people will vote Republicans in to revoke the law. Right now they are killing themselves because most people realize the above facts.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, that's true, and I agree. I just heard they've reached a deal on the debt ceiling and it will be put to a vote in the Senate and then the House gets it tonight. So, we'll see what they do.

[plastroncafe]

And then we get to go through this all again in January. Whee!

[BubblyShell22]

Well, they did reach a deal, but I think all of this was done on purpose anyway. I knew they'd wait until the last minute because that's what they want to do. Stupid, idiotic politicians!

[pannoni1]

These "kicking the can" deals are unsustainable. Another financial firm is likely going to downgrade the US's credit rating. Its sad considering that its more about playing a political game for Congress as opposed to being for the people. The US is the only large developed country with a debt ceiling, and we don't know when, but at some point unless if a great discovery is made, will keep slipping in the world rankings.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, and soon no country will want to ally itself with us anymore because we can't get our sh*t together.