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View Full Version : I must applaud the writers for making a show without a ton of mutants


CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 11:55 AM
The 4kids cartoon is probably the only series that did not introduce a ton of mutants for toylines as it progressed.

There were only two big mutant storylines, the "Notes of the Underground" mutants which resembled monsters more than mutants from Season 1 and 2, and then the mutant outbreak storyline in Season 4 which gave us another cockroach mutant and some random bug mutants. Bishop's forces managed to cure all of NYC from the mutant population. Likewise all the Notes of the Underground mutants were also cured and reverted back to their human forms.

So other than Leatherhead, there were no recurring mutants in this series. While I would have liked to see Slash in this show, I must say it was great to see a TMNT cartoon be as "mutant free" as possible.

Jeff
10-17-2013, 12:49 PM
i love mutants, but i kind of agree. its much better than getting a new mutant every week like we are with the new toon.

TheSkeletonMan939
10-17-2013, 01:11 PM
Yeah. I'm sure someone's going to come to this thread and say, "But season 4 was all about other mutants!"

Yeah, but there was one, good, solid reason for that: Bishop messed up with his 'alien invasion'.

In the new 2012 toon, each week some dumbass falls into mutagen and turns into a monster who's never seen again (Spider-Bytez, for example; I doubt we'll see him again until it's time for another filler episode).

CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 01:27 PM
And the thing is all of Season 4 hardly had any mutants either, it was only for one 4-episode plotline. Most of Season 4 dealt with a whole bunch of other stuff.

Jeff
10-17-2013, 02:21 PM
Yeah. I'm sure someone's going to come to this thread and say, "But season 4 was all about other mutants!"

Yeah, but there was one, good, solid reason for that: Bishop messed up with his 'alien invasion'.

In the new 2012 toon, each week some dumbass falls into mutagen and turns into a monster who's never seen again (Spider-Bytez, for example; I doubt we'll see him again until it's time for another filler episode).

i was so excited to hear Lewis Black, too. such a let down.

Xav
10-17-2013, 02:52 PM
So other than Leatherhead, there were no recurring mutants in this series.Do the Dark Turtles count? They were clones of mutants.

Powder
10-17-2013, 03:26 PM
We all know it was Pete, not the writers, who kept it relatively mutant free.

CansecoBat
10-17-2013, 03:35 PM
What's the difference between "less mutants" and chessy, over the top "aliens", abundance of sci-fi and "mysticism"? haha. Bastardizing gritty Mirage story lines, by infusing them with "trying to be cool" sci-fi plot themes and devices.

Technogeek29
10-17-2013, 03:43 PM
What's the difference between "less mutants" and chessy, over the top "aliens", abundance of sci-fi and "mysticism"? haha. Bastardizing gritty Mirage story lines, by infusing them with "trying to be cool" sci-fi plot themes and devices.

So was this necessary Alliance?

Jester
10-17-2013, 03:55 PM
So was this necessary Alliance?
Funny, I was gonna call CyberCubed the "Nick Alliance", because he's a freakin' broken record on the whole "Mutant of the Week" BS.

CansecoBat
10-17-2013, 04:06 PM
So was this necessary Alliance?
Huh?

Alliance with who? What are you talking about?

Technogeek29
10-17-2013, 04:11 PM
Funny, I was gonna call CyberCubed the "Nick Alliance", because he's a freakin' broken record on the whole "Mutant of the Week" BS.

I agree I love the nick show but I always voice my complaints as opposed to what I like. assume I like it if I don't say anything.

CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 04:49 PM
What's the difference between "less mutants" and chessy, over the top "aliens", abundance of sci-fi and "mysticism"? haha. Bastardizing gritty Mirage story lines, by infusing them with "trying to be cool" sci-fi plot themes and devices.

Aliens didn't show up that frequently in 4kids, what are you talking about? The Utroms, Triceratons and some one-off characters here and there? Most of the villains in 4kids were humans.

The Battle Nexus characters were from other planets or whatever but it all took place in a nexus dimension.

Coola Yagami
10-17-2013, 05:24 PM
Aliens didn't show up that frequently in 4kids, what are you talking about? The Utroms, Triceratons and some one-off characters here and there? Most of the villains in 4kids were humans.

The Battle Nexus characters were from other planets or whatever but it all took place in a nexus dimension.

It feels like for every thread someone makes downing the 2K3 series... you feel obligated to make one in its favor.

Icebot
10-17-2013, 05:26 PM
There were more mutants in Turtles Forever.

Like Tokka and Razar, some Purple Dragons.

Hun became one too, was he renamed Slash?

CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 05:26 PM
It feels like for every thread someone makes downing the 2K3 series... you feel obligated to make one in its favor.

Because there is a lot of misinformation going on around here.

Coola Yagami
10-17-2013, 05:31 PM
Because there is a lot of misinformation going on around here.

There is no misinformation. It's people's different opinions that just don't coincide with yours. The show has come gone. Let it go. Noone cares. We have a new show now, we're all over that. The 80's show has released the full series on DVD not too long ago so we can look back at that, and it has all sorts of retro merchadise coming out including re-releasing some of the old figures. If anything, their upcoming cameo in the new series will further remind fans of that show.

Unless they re-release the 2K3 series seasons sets and start remaking Bishop figures and the like... this show is pretty much forgotten. Just let it the hell go.

CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 05:47 PM
Unless they re-release the 2K3 series seasons sets and start remaking Bishop figures and the like... this show is pretty much forgotten. Just let it the hell go.

What exactly does that mean? We're not supposed to forget the 2k3 series as it is not only a good show to begin with, but also an important part of TMNT history.

You might as well say the IDW series is ignored since the Nick series is overshadowing that too.

Coola Yagami
10-17-2013, 05:51 PM
What exactly does that mean? We're not supposed to forget the 2k3 series as it is not only a good show to begin with, but also an important part of TMNT history.

You might as well say the IDW series is ignored since the Nick series is overshadowing that too.

Unlike the 2K3 series however, the IDW series is still ongoing with no signs of slowing down. The 2K3 is just forgotten and out of the public eye, save any time Nick decides to rerun Turtles Forever.

CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 06:07 PM
Unlike the 2K3 series however, the IDW series is still ongoing with no signs of slowing down. The 2K3 is just forgotten and out of the public eye, save any time Nick decides to rerun Turtles Forever.

It's ongoing because its new, that doesn't mean the casuals are paying any attention to it. The IDW series only sells around 17,000-19,000 copies of its issues a month, while the Nick show averages 2 million viewers per episode.

I bet most people following the Nick show don't even know IDW is publishing a new TMNT series.

Coola Yagami
10-17-2013, 06:39 PM
It's ongoing because its new, that doesn't mean the casuals are paying any attention to it. The IDW series only sells around 17,000-19,000 copies of its issues a month, while the Nick show averages 2 million viewers per episode.

I bet most people following the Nick show don't even know IDW is publishing a new TMNT series.

That is true, especially since people nowadays don't read much comics. However that doesn't make the 2k3 series any less forgotten.

Jester
10-17-2013, 06:54 PM
How many people who watched the FW or 4Kids series knew Mirage (and to lesser extents Archie, Image, and Dreamwave) were publishing TMNT comics?

Cipher
10-17-2013, 07:07 PM
It was all Peter and Lloyd Goldfine. I'm sure Playmates was chomping at the bit to get a line of animal mutants going.

Coola Yagami
10-17-2013, 07:10 PM
It was all Peter and Lloyd Goldfine. I'm sure Playmates was chomping at the bit to get a line of animal mutants going.

Who's Lloyd?

Cipher
10-17-2013, 07:14 PM
Who's Lloyd?
The show-runner for the 4Kids Ninja Turtles show. All those emails Pete posts on his blog from the making of the 4Kids show? They are with Lloyd, and you can tell Lloyd gave a ridiculous number of f*cks about what he was doing.

CyberCubed
10-17-2013, 08:05 PM
It was all Peter and Lloyd Goldfine. I'm sure Playmates was chomping at the bit to get a line of animal mutants going.

I believe that's why the Battle Nexus arc happened too, the whole Playmates toyline made a huge batch of characters from it. They wanted to make all the different designs from it.

Shark_Blade
10-18-2013, 04:54 AM
It's ongoing because its new, that doesn't mean the casuals are paying any attention to it. The IDW series only sells around 17,000-19,000 copies of its issues a month, while the Nick show averages 2 million viewers per episode.

I bet most people following the Nick show don't even know IDW is publishing a new TMNT series.I hope the comics will get a spike in sales when the movie is released. It deserves lots of audience and love. :tlove:

Maybe. I don't even know Teen Titans has a comic until recently, no surprise there.

Jeff
10-18-2013, 07:23 AM
There is no misinformation. It's people's different opinions that just don't coincide with yours. The show has come gone. Let it go. Noone cares. We have a new show now, we're all over that. The 80's show has released the full series on DVD not too long ago so we can look back at that, and it has all sorts of retro merchadise coming out including re-releasing some of the old figures. If anything, their upcoming cameo in the new series will further remind fans of that show.

Unless they re-release the 2K3 series seasons sets and start remaking Bishop figures and the like... this show is pretty much forgotten. Just let it the hell go.

the only reason the 1987 is still getting merch is because of nostalgic 20-30somethings. Give it 10 years when the kids growing up with 4kids are in their late 20s and then have this argument. Maybe they won't care about 2k3, but the certainly wont care about 87.

Whatswiththeheadbands?
10-19-2013, 08:43 AM
I'm starting to get sick of this whole 'Forget the 2k3 series' deal people have in their minds now.

What if the show ended? We (the people who like the 2k3 series) should be entitled to talk about the series as much as we want.

You lot, who talk like no one remembers it need to rephrase it. It's 'A small amount of people remember it'.

I know i am going to get alot of hate from this post, but this is a forum. People talk about things on forums. I'm just simply talking about this.

I am preparing for the hate.

CyberCubed
10-19-2013, 08:46 AM
It's mostly from bandwagon hoppers. These same people were here when the 2k3 series was airing and loved it. Now they only decided to forget it because they think the Nick shows popularity makes a previous show not good.

Trust me when the Nick show ends or the hype dies off it won't be looked on as favorable as it is now. People gravitate to new things over old.

Whatswiththeheadbands?
10-19-2013, 08:50 AM
It's mostly from bandwagon hoppers. These same people were here when the 2k3 series was airing and loved it. Now they only decided to forget it because they think the Nick shows popularity makes a previous show not good.

Trust me when the Nick show ends or the hype dies off it won't be looked on as favorable as it is now. People gravitate to new things over old.

This make sense, in my mind.

I grew up with the 2003 series. If the series was bad as most people say it is, then i wouldn't be on this site at all.

The nick series, although it is good, just has too many filler episodes and, as discussed in this and other threads, has just too many mutants in it.

And also the fact that they are trying to make it too much like the OT series in my opinion.

snake
10-19-2013, 09:44 AM
Funny, I was gonna call CyberCubed the "Nick Alliance", because he's a freakin' broken record on the whole "Mutant of the Week" BS.

Spot on, my friend. Kids love new mutants, and that's who the show is ment for.

Coola Yagami
10-19-2013, 05:06 PM
It's mostly from bandwagon hoppers. These same people were here when the 2k3 series was airing and loved it. Now they only decided to forget it because they think the Nick shows popularity makes a previous show not good.

Trust me when the Nick show ends or the hype dies off it won't be looked on as favorable as it is now. People gravitate to new things over old.

There's no bandwagon my friend, at least where I'm coming from. Even back then I rolled my eyes and facepalmed when they felt the need to screw up the Mirage-inspired episodes. 2K3 was good, but far from perfect.

I see it more of a matter of choice. Back then we didn't have much of a choice. If you wanted a bad-ass martial arts stick-to-the-shadows serious TMNT show you only had the 2K3 one. It was either that, or the corny slapstick of the 80's show with limited budget and animation.

Now we have more of a choice. If you want a funnier story, but still mixed with actual martial arts action AND old school characters returning like Metalhead, Slash, Baxterfly and Mutagen Man, you have this show. If you don't like it, then you still have the choice to bust out the old DVDs and watch the 2K3 show and relive the memories. I just happen to like this show more than the older one, and that is my opinion.

Avatar Yuffie
10-19-2013, 05:48 PM
Aliens didn't show up that frequently in 4kids, what are you talking about? The Utroms, Triceratons and some one-off characters here and there? Most of the villains in 4kids were humans.

The Battle Nexus characters were from other planets or whatever but it all took place in a nexus dimension.

*facepalm*

Shredder is an alien.

IIRC season 2 started with the Turtles in outer space. With aliens.

Then we had Triceratons. ALIENS.

4Kids didn't frequently shown aliens are you kidding me???

CyberCubed
10-19-2013, 06:44 PM
I said other than Utroms and Triceratons who only appeared in certain arcs. Prior to FF how many aliens showed up otherwise?

Coola Yagami
10-19-2013, 07:38 PM
I said other than Utroms and Triceratons who only appeared in certain arcs. Prior to FF how many aliens showed up otherwise?

It was still full of monsters, superheroes, the fighters from the Battle Nexus, Ultimate Ninja, Drako, Nano, other random one-shot creatures, etc etc etc. For whatever reason Pete was ok with every other single form of non-human being other than a mutant is ok.

What's the deal with mutants anyways? The heroes are mutants, make sense they fight mutant villains. There aren't really much interesting human villains besides the Foot, Baxter, the Dragons and the Rat King. You watch a show about mutated talking turtles, you kinda expect them to fight weird non-human villains.

Pterobat
10-19-2013, 08:27 PM
It was still full of monsters, superheroes, the fighters from the Battle Nexus, Ultimate Ninja, Drako, Nano, other random one-shot creatures, etc etc etc. For whatever reason Pete was ok with every other single form of non-human being other than a mutant is ok.

What's the deal with mutants anyways? The heroes are mutants, make sense they fight mutant villains. There aren't really much interesting human villains besides the Foot, Baxter, the Dragons and the Rat King. You watch a show about mutated talking turtles, you kinda expect them to fight weird non-human villains.

Much as I disagree with the rumours of the 4Kids's fossilization, I have to agree with this. I know the reasoning is not to oversaturate the series with mutants, but the worth of characters is proven by who they are, not what they are, which makes being a mutant a neutral thing, neither good nor bad.

Avatar Yuffie
10-19-2013, 08:38 PM
I said other than Utroms and Triceratons who only appeared in certain arcs. Prior to FF how many aliens showed up otherwise?

They're still aliens, man. And they're not a singular event. EVERYTHING that happened in seasons 1-4 is all thanks to them.

CyberCubed
10-19-2013, 09:02 PM
They're still aliens, man. And they're not a singular event. EVERYTHING that happened in seasons 1-4 is all thanks to them.

The difference is there wasn't a new, "freak of the week" that showed up every episode or two to give the Turtles a new creature to fight. The Nick show is very mutant of the week, the 4kids series didn't do that.

If the 4kids show introduced a new alien to attack the Turtles every 2 or 3 episodes, I'd agree with you.

Avatar Yuffie
10-20-2013, 01:09 AM
The difference is there wasn't a new, "freak of the week" that showed up every episode or two to give the Turtles a new creature to fight. The Nick show is very mutant of the week, the 4kids series didn't do that.

If the 4kids show introduced a new alien to attack the Turtles every 2 or 3 episodes, I'd agree with you.

You don't have to agree with me, alright? You only accept your opinions anyways, so I'm just wasting my time.

I'm seriously flabbergasted you'd suggest the aliens weren't a big part of 2k3's universe.

Coola Yagami
10-20-2013, 09:37 AM
The characters did have longer arcs, but it was still kinda 'freak-of-the-week'.
Let's see in season 1 alone they faced Purple Dragons, Mousers, Nano, Invisible Ninjas, Garbageman, Shredder, that villain Mikey faced as Turtle Titan, the Monsters from Underground, Kirby's monsters, random mobsters, and Utrons, with a cliffhanger that ends with them being sent to outer space.

The main difference is that this series has 2 or even 3 part stories, hell, even 3-part filler stories, so it does feel more fleshed out, less episodic and not exactly freak of the week.

However, season 1 did have episodes where the Turtles just faced Chris and Xever again without introducing new characters or villains. I assume we'll be seeing more of Chris, Xever, Karai and Shredder again in these episodes too. Mutagen Man himself doesn't count as new since he's been around for a while.

turtletoons81
10-20-2013, 10:03 AM
The characters did have longer arcs, but it was still kinda 'freak-of-the-week'.
Let's see in season 1 alone they faced Purple Dragons, Mousers, Nano, Invisible Ninjas, Garbageman, Shredder, that villain Mikey faced as Turtle Titan, the Monsters from Underground, Kirby's monsters, random mobsters, and Utrons, with a cliffhanger that ends with them being sent to outer space.

The main difference is that this series has 2 or even 3 part stories, hell, even 3-part filler stories, so it does feel more fleshed out, less episodic and not exactly freak of the week.

However, season 1 did have episodes where the Turtles just faced Chris and Xever again without introducing new characters or villains. I assume we'll be seeing more of Chris, Xever, Karai and Shredder again in these episodes too. Mutagen Man himself doesn't count as new since he's been around for a while.
I Heard Karai is going to have a bigger role in season 2 than she did in season 1 even though she was already big in season 1

CyberCubed
10-20-2013, 07:07 PM
Let's see in season 1 alone they faced Purple Dragons,

Humans

Mousers, Nano,

Robots

Invisible Ninjas,

These are Foot with stealth gear, they're human.

Garbageman,

Grossly deformed human, but human nonetheless

Shredder,

Well in Season 1 he seemed human

that villain Mikey faced as Turtle Titan, the Monsters from Underground,

The only mutant arc.

Kirby's monsters,

These were drawings that came to life, don't really count.

random mobsters,

Humans

and Utrons, with a cliffhanger that ends with them being sent to outer space.

So in other words it took till the end of the season for aliens to show up.



Going through your list, thanks for proving my point. They mostly fought humans in Season 1 with a mix of robots, and only one mutant arc...with the Utroms saved for the tail-end.

Coola Yagami
10-20-2013, 08:10 PM
Humans



Robots



These are Foot with stealth gear, they're human.



Grossly deformed human, but human nonetheless



Well in Season 1 he seemed human



The only mutant arc.



These were drawings that came to life, don't really count.



Humans



So in other words it took till the end of the season for aliens to show up.



Going through your list, thanks for proving my point. They mostly fought humans in Season 1 with a mix of robots, and only one mutant arc...with the Utroms saved for the tail-end.

Nope, it just prooves that they fought a different enemy almost every episode, including filler freaks like Nano, Garbageman and Kirby's monsters. The only filler freaks season 1 had were Rockwell and Justin since I doubt either will return. Falco was almost filler before they turned him into Rat King. So far the only freak-of-the-week in this season are the Squirrelanoids unless they come back.

I think you're confusing mutants with actual characters. For me, freak-of-the-week are one time random monsters for the hell of it, like Justin. Anybody else like Spider Bytes and the Cockroach Terminator are bound to return.

Technogeek29
10-20-2013, 08:22 PM
Nope, it just prooves that they fought a different enemy almost every episode, including filler freaks like Nano, Garbageman and Kirby's monsters. The only filler freaks season 1 had were Rockwell and Justin since I doubt either will return. Falco was almost filler before they turned him into Rat King. So far the only freak-of-the-week in this season are the Squirrelanoids unless they come back.

I think you're confusing mutants with actual characters. For me, freak-of-the-week are one time random monsters for the hell of it, like Justin. Anybody else like Spider Bytes and the Cockroach Terminator are bound to return.

Actaully Nano and Garbageman came back so only Kirby counts as a filler here.

Coola Yagami
10-20-2013, 10:25 PM
Actaully Nano and Garbageman came back so only Kirby counts as a filler here.

True, but as of season 1, they were filler villains. As was the guy Mikey and Silver Sentry faced (and wow, he didn't return until Back in the Sewers). For all we know, Justin might return in season 2, but we don't know yet. Falco returned in the same season.

Technogeek29
10-20-2013, 10:34 PM
True, but as of season 1, they were filler villains. As was the guy Mikey and Silver Sentry faced (and wow, he didn't return until Back in the Sewers). For all we know, Justin might return in season 2, but we don't know yet. Falco returned in the same season.

Ah I see your point.

Jester
10-21-2013, 12:11 AM
But then so are Spiderbytes and CRT...because as of now they've appeared in one episode...oh...and Snakeweed.

And, not that I disagree with you at all...I just want to beat Cubed to it because it's fun....Kirby's creatures even return as cameos in the Battle Nexus.

TurtleMaster4
10-21-2013, 07:54 PM
Yea Mutants are cool and all, but I was glad we didnít get to many of them. The Alien Arcs were there instead; aw man those Utroms are so cool! Iím still hoping we get to see some Peaceful Utroms in the IDW comic! The Tricaritrons are awesome as well especially DRAXIMUS! Dudes the Alien episodes were by far the greatest!

Coola Yagami
10-21-2013, 09:25 PM
But then so are Spiderbytes and CRT...because as of now they've appeared in one episode...oh...and Snakeweed.

And, not that I disagree with you at all...I just want to beat Cubed to it because it's fun....Kirby's creatures even return as cameos in the Battle Nexus.

Though Snakeweed returned in the same season...

Jester
10-21-2013, 09:39 PM
Though Snakeweed returned in the same season...
Yeah...that's me forgetting the 2nd Snakeweed episode...or trying to remember if it was an episode or an issue of the comics. :P Sorry.

Technogeek29
10-21-2013, 10:19 PM
In your defense it was when Karai was introduced so he naturally got over shadowed.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-22-2013, 11:56 AM
How many people who watched the FW or 4Kids series knew Mirage (and to lesser extents Archie, Image, and Dreamwave) were publishing TMNT comics?

I think the 2003 show brought the knowledge to not everyone, but a lot of people who never knew before.