Why do long-time fans still have mixed reactions to Nick's TMNT?

[bwrosas]

Why long-time fans still have a mixed reaction to the "NEW" TMNT cartoon on Nickelodeon.

Now I will give them credit for creating some orginal ideas and characters for this new incarnation on the turtles. As well as adding some new twists to some already established ideas and character backgrounds.

However, while there is some/alot of good ideas and twists in the show, There are some not so good ideas.

For example, and most notably, turning characters like April, Casey and Kirai into teenagers. Now one can probably understand why they did it, especially in this current time period. But any long-time fan could/can see it as a turn-off to the new show.

The reason being, is because (IMO) some long-time fans (like myself) just can't see them as teenagers. Especially now with the 2nd season and The writers having April not wanting anything to do with turtles because she's mad at them for what happen to her father. To older fans like myself, that's not April.

What I'm saying, is sure April has be mad at the turtles before, if not frustrated at them, but not to the point that she completely shuts herself off from them (until this cartoon came around and had it happen).

Now if Nick wants to go with a realistic reason for this, and say she's going through teenage girl emotions, then that would make her anger towards them, make a little more sense. But this current way? No, that doesn't really make sense.

And for what reason could they be doing This? To possibly start a love/relationship rivalry triangle between Donnie and Casey with April stuck in the middle? May seem that way. Because just recently, in this version, April has to tutor Casey to help get his grades up, so he can remain on the High School hockey team. And it's during all this, that Donnie finds out about him and in turn, Casey finds out about mutants. So yeah, I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to figure where this maybe leading towards. (I guess Donnie vs Casey will replace Raphael vs Casey in this version)

Now, again, don't get me wrong, this incarnation has some good stuff in it, that's for damn sure. But it just that there are certain elements and characters that long-time and even new fans from the past decade (2003-2010 series) just don't agree with.

Once again, we can understand and respect why certain changes were made, it's just for some fans of the past 30 years (27 for the cartoons) it just doesn't connect well with them.

And then add in the fact that next year, along with their airing of this show, that Nickelodeon via Paramount will be releasing a live-action/CGI movie, that seems to be somewhat based off the 1989-1996 cartoon. So if you think the 30 year fans are mixed about this new cartoon, which is currently in it's second season, then just imagine the mixed reaction of the newer younger fans of the new series when this movie comes out next year.

Overall, the new TMNT show is good, it just has some things that long-time fans look at with an understanding , yet mixed reaction, that is all.

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[CyberCubed]

This thread needs to be locked.

[Jester]

1. Ciro explained that de-aging April made her more of a contemporary and also freed her to be involved, as she didn't have a 9-5 job.
2. Getting your dad back from his evil alien abductors only to have him mutate into a giant bat-mutant would probably piss anyone off. Add to it the people "responcible" are your "friends" and it could make you want to disconnect from them. Makes sense to me without any "teenage girl emotions". That's human emotions.
3. Yes...they're building for a Donnie/Casey rivalry. Just another change is all.

(Side note: To post youtube videos, just use the 11 characters after the v= in the URL, like so...)
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Edit: Wait? Did you created this thread to pimp your youtube videos? le sigh.

[CyberCubed]

The funny thing is I haven't seen anyone bothered by April/Casey/Karai being teenagers in this show, as it fits the universe.

Where the **** is this thread coming from?

[Cowabunga Carl]

Okay, wow not sure how to respond to this one. I mean really? Really you are venturing to speak for long time fans? If you are going to post your views then do that, but don't venture to say you are speaking for all.

I know there are a lot of "long time fans" who love the new show. So not sure where you getting your facts that all are like you.

Plus pimping your own videos, nice.:trolleye:

[SpiderFly]

I'm not a long-time tmnt fan so I don't know if my reply would be helpful to you but . . . I like that Casey, April, and Karai are younger. I don't think it would be any better or worse than them being older. It's just a different scenario to rehash and explore which is what makes the tmnt stories so fun. Why rebooting them doesn't get old. If you have the same old, same old (not that there's anything wrong with the old) then things just get stale. Not to mention it just makes more sense.

Adult April would have a job. Karai's age would have to make sense if they want to make her a brainwashed Miwa. And if April's an adult, then it is only going to be silly if Casey is this normalish buff guy in hockey gear, running around with a group of teenage vigilantes and a teenage girl. (then again they are mutant ninja turtles)

Before the Nick toon did anyone ask the question, "What if these guys had met each other at a younger age? That would be fun to explore." I would find it hard to believe that nobody would entertain thoughts like that.

[Karai Samurai]

First of all, welcome to the forum!

And, yeah, this topic has debated a million times. The general consensus is that long-time fans have a mixed reaction to the show because it's different. Also, plenty of old fans love this show, alongside new fans like me. I don't think you can speak for all of them.

[bwrosas]

Look I understand what you all saying. It just feels a little weird for a long-time fan [like me] to get adjusted to the new changes. (Even if [others] do love the show for what it is)

[Cowabunga Carl]

As Splinter has said in almost all versions, "Change is constant."

[CyberCubed]

Look I understand what you all saying. It just feels a little weird for a long-time fan (imo) to get adjusted to the new changes. (Even if they do love the show for what it is)

Virtually all of us are long-time fans and we got used to the changes from the first episode.

[Bossa Nova]

The funny thing is I haven't seen anyone bothered by April/Casey/Karai being teenagers in this show, as it fits the universe.

Where the **** is this thread coming from?

You haven't seen anyone bothered by these changes? You obviously haven't looked...well, anywhere.

Edit: Also, Spiderfly, up till now April, Casey and Karai have all been young adults in some form, and their age has never really been an issue when it comes to interacting with the turtles.

[Jester]

Virtually all of us are long-time fans and we got used to the changes from the first episode.
Right....like how someone couldn't get their brain around a queen bee Kraang Prime, but was overjoyed when she was revealed to be a he.

[SpiderFly]

Edit: Also, Spiderfly, up till now April, Casey and Karai have all been young adults in some form, and their age has never really been an issue when it comes to interacting with the turtles.

I'd like to think an adult April would have a different relationship with the turtles than a teenage April would.

Or, though not happening, if the turtle tots had met a littler April, what kind of relationship would they have? (as cute as that would be)

But my mind runs off in all sorts of directions.

[Coola Yagami]

I can understand his points, but dude... pimping your videos kinda makes you lose all credibility. I do understand the changes affect the storylines, but I can where some fans might have to adjust to all this teenage stuff when in past versions not even the turtles themselves acted like teenagers.

Cybercubed, you have to learn to let people voice their opinion. Kinda sick of you automatically saying 'someone needs to lock this thread' the moment someone starts something you don't like to hear. The day you become a mod, I'm walking out. Mark my words.

[BabyTurtles]

im pretty much fine with April being younger :D

..........but I'd be lying if this while DonniexApril thing isn't the mole of TMNT for me........(I complain about it waaay too much)


I think we will see Raph and Casey being friends *_*

[chrisdude]

I must have missed the part when long-time fans had a mixed reaction.

http://i.imgur.com/L5vz5wz.jpg

Or when any sizable portion of the fanbase had anything negative to say. If people here are cool with it, long-time fans are cool with it.

I think we will see Raph and Casey being friends *_*
I want this more than anything.

[Coola Yagami]

I must have missed the part when long-time fans had a mixed reaction.

http://i.imgur.com/L5vz5wz.jpg

Or when any sizable portion of the fanbase had anything negative to say. If people here are cool with it, long-time fans are cool with it.


I want this more than anything.

There's a whole world outside this forum ya know.

[CyberCubed]

There's a whole world outside this forum ya know.

Most people are fine with it.

[Jester]

Most people are fine with it.

Indeed, most of the most negative reactions are from Youtube commenters...but then almost everything in youtube comments is negative

[Toby Barrett]

It's just Brian Walmer. He posts his crappy videos in pretty much any fandom message board he can. Best to just ignore him.

[Electric]

The younger April, as Ciro stated, allows her to grow with the turtles, since he's starting them off different then they will be at the end.

April being mad at the turtles, is April. This April. Who's younger and is going through a lot and takes her anger out on them. You can't say that's not April, cause it is. It may not be the April you prefer, it's still her

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

All I would like to say is, If you call yourself a "long time fan" then I am assuming you should love the Ninja Turtles for what it is and embrace all different aspects, and Incarnations.

[Bossa Nova]

All I would like to say is, If you call yourself a "long time fan" then I am assuming you should love the Ninja Turtles for what it is and embrace all different aspects, and Incarnations.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.

[Coola Yagami]

Most people are fine with it.

How do you know? Have you gone out and ask people on the street? Do your friends and family like it too? Have you seen outside of this forum out in the real world also be 'fine with it'. What if we were the minority and the youtube naysayers were the majority?

This is a TMNT forum, of course everyone here would be fine with it (even though some of us were so fine with it that they ended up chasing Ciro himself out of this place). Stop thinking of a 13% of the world and look at the big picture.

[Electric]

Geez this forum is out of control. All that's really been going on is generalizing groups of people into categories saying they don't like this or don't get that, then other groups fight back, then both get personally accused of assuming, generalizing, understating, overstating, insulting, etc.

These threads aren't discussing the nick tmnt show, they're just fans bickering.

[chrisdude]

I was operating under the assumption that this forum represented the most critical members of TMNT fandom.

This forum is really the only place I've seen people complain. (For all intents and purposes, YouTube commenters aren't people.)

[CyberCubed]

God how I wish this thread was locked.

[Coola Yagami]

God how I wish this thread was locked.

God how I wish would go on forever.

[CyberCubed]

God how I wish would go on forever.

This thread is nonsense. The title doesn't even make sense.

[Jester]

This thread is nonsense. The title doesn't even make sense.
So...illiterate?
It's a thread about issues long-time fans have taken with the Nick series. Though originally created to pimp his youtube vlogs, this thread is far from nonsense.

[CyberCubed]

So...illiterate?
It's a thread about issues long-time fans have taken with the Nick series. Though originally created to pimp his youtube vlogs, this thread is far from nonsense.

Because nobody is complaining about anything in this thread. It's made up in the head of the thread poster.

[Coola Yagami]

Because nobody is complaining about anything in this thread. It's made up in the head of the thread poster.

No.. YOU'RE not complaining. Don't put words in the mouths of everyone else.

[Jester]

So...his reasons aren't what some people complain about? Because I'm sure Zarius could explain exactly why he, a long time fan, doesn't like the show if you'd like.

And way back people were really bent out of shape about teen April. Some have warmed to it, but I'm sure there are still those that are a'gain it.

[CyberCubed]

And way back people were really bent out of shape about teen April. Some have warmed to it, but I'm sure there are still those that are a'gain it.

Nobody is complaining about April being a teen.

Show me the proof. From people who actually watch the show, not youtube people who have probably not watched a single episode.

[Coola Yagami]

So...his reasons aren't what some people complain about? Because I'm sure Zarius could explain exactly why he, a long time fan, doesn't like the show if you'd like.

And way back people were really bent out of shape about teen April. Some have warmed to it, but I'm sure there are still those that are a'gain it.

I'm curious about what Zarius would say. I mean I love the show, but even I have complaints.

[CyberCubed]

Where is the proof? Show me the proof.

[Coola Yagami]

Where is the proof? Show me the proof.

What proof is there of the contrary?

[CyberCubed]

What proof is there of the contrary?

People don't mind April being a teen since it fits with the shows structure.

[Coola Yagami]

People don't mind April being a teen since it fits with the shows structure.

what people? show me the proof. There are just as many that wish she was adult as those that are already used to her being a teen.

[CyberCubed]

what people? show me the proof. There are just as many that wish she was adult as those that are already used to her being a teen.

LOL, what? Everywhere I go where people follow the Nick cartoon they don't have a problem at all.

[Coola Yagami]

LOL, what? Everywhere I go where people follow the Nick cartoon they don't have a problem at all.

... I mean as in you actually leaving the house...

[Bossa Nova]

LOL, what? Everywhere I go where people follow the Nick cartoon they don't have a problem at all.

I follow this show. I consider myself a pretty dedicated fan to the franchise. I have a problem with April being turned into a teenager and all around her entire character portrayal in this show. There. Happy now?

For those of you who think these forums are the end all of the most dedicated fanbase, how about you check out Deviantart and read some discussions going on there? I can assure you there are MANY fans who don't appreciate April's development or certain aspects of the new show that are still just as 'hardcore' as anyone here. Big surprise that a lot of fans don't like coming here seeing as the attitude of many members are so callous.

[Powder]

Dear OP, go away forever.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I'll go in and say I'm still not big on April being a teenager either. Don't hate it but don't love it and kind of still think it was pointless.

So there's a few of us who don't like it. I mean, I'm over it, but if by the end the main point of doing it was the whole Donnie "thing", then no, then it was dumb. But eh I'm not the one writing it.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, I'll go in and say I'm still not big on April being a teenager either. Don't hate it but don't love it and kind of still think it was pointless.

So there's a few of us who don't like it. I mean, I'm over it, but if by the end the main point of doing it was the whole Donnie "thing", then no, then it was dumb. But eh I'm not the one writing it.

How was it pointless though? What would an adult April be doing in this type of show?

Nick's TMNT are younger, April growing up with them makes sense.

[Jester]

True...but most past Aprils were more a mother figure, in parallel to Splinter's masculine influence. That's what she'd bring to it. It's all a matter of preference and some prefer things how they were.

[Leo656]

It doesn't *not* make sense, yeah, but again... I don't know. I don't think it *had* to be done, is all. I mean, neither does anything, really. I just find it a rather arbitrary change that I'm pretty sure was done *just* to make April and Donnie a convenient "not-couple" so they could build stories about that, and I don't really like the way they did those stories.

Basically, I've been hoping there was a reason beyond that for the change, but since there doesn't seem to be, I'm not sold on it. Doesn't mean it's terrible, just isn't how I'd prefer it done. I've always been fine with April being older than them, having it be different this time doesn't hurt anything but it doesn't "fix" anything, either.

Teen April is kind of like Utrom Shredder. I think either works for their own version, but not as "The" version of either character. In each case they're okay for the show they're in, but in neither case was it at all necessary to change the character the way they did.

I guess it all comes down to where a person stands on "different for different's sake". I generally like a little more reasoning for stuff changing, but it doesn't ruin things if there isn't one.

[CyberCubed]

The difference is this is a show with very little human contact and the Turtles being portrayed as younger than ever before.

Seeing an adult April interacting with Nick's TMNT would seem out of place...she's essentially just be a second Splinter or something like that.

And April seems exactly like April we've always known, only younger.

[Leo656]

Seeing April interact with them is odd no matter how old she is, because she's a mostly-normal person and they're a bunch of nuclear abominations, and anything past that is just splitting hairs. :lol:

[Bossa Nova]

And April seems exactly like April we've always known, only younger.

This April acts far different than past versions of her. Don't kid yourself.

[CyberCubed]

This April acts far different than past versions of her. Don't kid yourself.

She has a bit more angst because she's a kid, but she's not much different than the others.

[Venom]

Where is the proof? Show me the proof.

Okay, I'll bite.

I'm not too keen on "high-school punk" Casey, and still not fully use to the idea of April being 16. Personally, I feel it detracts from their characters because the inevitable connection they form will most likely be nothing more than a teenage girls fascination with the bad boy trope.

Personally, I would have much preferred if they be college age - like in IDW - around 21-22, then their connection would feel much more substantial since by that age, most of us have some sense of self and begin looking for more deeper connections from life.

In every medium where April and Casey become an item, they have always been represented, basically, as somewhat normal people who found themselves thrown into a wild ass situation and forming a bond that eventually evolves into love.

So there, while I do love Ciro's vision of the Turtles, it's not without it's flaws and doesn't put me off from wanting to watch the show.

[bwrosas]

She has a bit more angst because she's a kid, but she's not much different than the others.


And that's just it. True in other mediums, she'll get mad or fustrated witht the Turtles, but not to the point that she competlely avoids them or shuts them off from her.

And in IMO, that's what fans like myself just don't like about the idea of her being a teen. Because it's not the way April would really act in anger towards them.

[Jester]

Again, none of the other Aprils had much reason the get mad at the Turtles. Through their actions her dad is now a mutant...and might be forever. That's a big deal and a legitimate reason for her to write off the Turtles at this point.

[bwrosas]

Again, none of the other Aprils had much reason the get mad at the Turtles. Through their actions her dad is now a mutant...and might be forever. That's a big deal and a legitimate reason for her to write off the Turtles at this point.

Again I can understand that. But if they mixed/balanced out this April's personaility with the pervious ones, then maybe (imo), fans like myself and others outside of this forum wouldn't be so unkeen to her being protrayed as teenager.

[Bossa Nova]

Again, none of the other Aprils had much reason the get mad at the Turtles. Through their actions her dad is now a mutant...and might be forever. That's a big deal and a legitimate reason for her to write off the Turtles at this point.

1990 film April lost her home, dad's shop and her job all in the span of 24 hours while discovering her life was in danger by a clan of ninja chasing down a bunch of mutants she was suddenly fraternizing with (and not really by her initial choice either). I don't know about you, but that's a lot to take in all at once. She could have easily dumped them all off the side of the road, did as the Foot said and kept her nose out their business and attempt to piece her normal life back together. But she didn't blame the turtles. They saved her life. She cares about them and she's going to help them in return for what they've done for her.

How much have the Nick turtles given their April, how many times have they saved her? And her dad? And the world? She doesn't have to sit back and be hunky dory with what has happened to her dad, she's allowed to be upset, angry and hurt and possibly need some time to herself to digest everything that's happened, pretty much anyone would, but dismissing everything the turtles have done for her and going so far as to not even caring if they might possibly die right in front of her (which very could have happened with Mutagen Man), is just too much for me to find her the least bit likeable anymore. Hell, if she was a character who had only met the turtles a couple of times before (like Timothy) and then this suddenly happened to her dad, I could totally understand why she'd want to see the turtles not only out of her life but possibly even dead, and she'd probably make a pretty awesome villain I could sympathize with. But as April? A girl I'm supposed to find relatable and root for? Not even close.

[Jester]

True...there and Mirage both she practically lost it all (Can't believe I forgot all of that.) but that April was also an adult, and more able to deal with the losses That and she was on the Foot's radar before the Turtles in the movie anyway. Without them, there's the distinct possibility everything would have gone up in smoke (pun totally intended) anyway.

I can understand you deciding that it might be over blown, and that it can effect your liking the character, but it's not an wholly unreasonable reaction to getting her dad back to lose him again so quickly.

And "wanting them dead" when it comes to Mutagen Man is a bit harsh. She was trying to keep Casey from finding out about them...which to me any way shows she still cares. And she knew the Turtles could take care of themselves.

[Konchadunga]

How do you know? Have you gone out and ask people on the street? Do your friends and family like it too? Have you seen outside of this forum out in the real world also be 'fine with it'. What if we were the minority and the youtube naysayers were the majority?

This is a TMNT forum, of course everyone here would be fine with it (even though some of us were so fine with it that they ended up chasing Ciro himself out of this place). Stop thinking of a 13% of the world and look at the big picture.

Come on; you know that's rubbish. There are so many different incarnations of the turtles that fandom rivalries are inevitable; it's guaranteed around this forum that someone's not going to be thrilled with any given new incarnation.

I am going to agree that making April a teenager, if indeed they did it so she could interact more with the turtles, was a pointless move; given that she still doesn't interact with them that much. Did they forget that people go to school before they get jobs? Because the way I see it, being a traveling reporter or quite a few other jobs could easily afford more time to visit friends than full-time schooling does.

[Technogeek29]

Personally not a fan of Teen April either, She get's information sure but she was better at that as an adult who wouldn't be question twice about being there. Even a College April (IDW) can sneak into places abeilt limited as well but she could still do it. I get she wants to have a normal life, Mirage April did to. Even 2k3 and eventually (and surprisingly) OT April wanted to get away from all the craziness and have some sense of normality in their life. But those versions have not full out just left the Turtles hung and dry.

Kid Casey might grow on me but it's too soon to form an opinion on him.

[Electric]

It doesn't *not* make sense, yeah, but again... I don't know. I don't think it *had* to be done, is all. I mean, neither does anything, really. I just find it a rather arbitrary change that I'm pretty sure was done *just* to make April and Donnie a convenient "not-couple" so they could build stories about that, and I don't really like the way they did those stories.

Basically, I've been hoping there was a reason beyond that for the change, but since there doesn't seem to be, I'm not sold on it. Doesn't mean it's terrible, just isn't how I'd prefer it done. I've always been fine with April being older than them, having it be different this time doesn't hurt anything but it doesn't "fix" anything, either.

Teen April is kind of like Utrom Shredder. I think either works for their own version, but not as "The" version of either character. In each case they're okay for the show they're in, but in neither case was it at all necessary to change the character the way they did.

I guess it all comes down to where a person stands on "different for different's sake". I generally like a little more reasoning for stuff changing, but it doesn't ruin things if there isn't one.

But it does have a reason beyond that. If you listen to ciros podcast, he states that April, in his original plan, was a mother like figure. When things started to change, he de aged her so she could develop along with the turtles, and make some mistakes, like they do. She's not fully mature, so yes while past April wouldn't be mad at the turtles, this April has just lost her father, and doesn't know how to deal with it so she mistakenly takes it out on the people she could blame. Also don't think losing your apartment and job is anything close to losing your dad. The crush on her from Donnie wasn't the reason she was de aged. The crush was to add something to a character ciro thought needed it, to give him someone to impress, but that was decided after they de aged her. He also didn't want April to have a 9-5 job, which makes more sense if she's only 16. So there really is reasoning behind it.

I'm not saying you have to like this version of her, but saying it was just for the Donnie crush isn't right. They de aged her to make her fit within this series, and have reasons as to why.

[pingclang]

Isn't this sort of the thing with TMNT? I mean, every version is different, usually by a good stretch, so a different April is kind of a good thing. All the Aprils up to the Nick series were very similar, just different jobs and changes in personality, but now we have new younger April. Do I like it? No, she IS the mother figure in the Turtles lives, but it's something new. I do agree that it seems to be more of a writing thing, but it continues the Turtles tradition carried on with each new take: Change.

[BubblyShell22]

I like teen April myself, and I can understand her being mad at them after just getting her dad back and losing him all over again. Not to mention that the Turtles rescued her dad and are now responsible for him getting mutated. The way Mikey talked about it would set me off, too, so I'm glad April got mad at them and that she's not forgiving them. I hope she stays mad at them for longer because forgiveness is overrated in our society, and it makes more sense for her to be mad at them. I admit, I was leery about the teen April change, but I've warmed up to it now.

[Leonardo_]

True...but most past Aprils were more a mother figure, in parallel to Splinter's masculine influence. That's what she'd bring to it. It's all a matter of preference and some prefer things how they were.

A mother figure? Maybe I have missed something?...To me she only was a whiney woman, that wasnt able to look out for herself (especially in the OT) and in almost every episode the turtles had to rescue her. Additionally she was often groaning how immature the turtles were. Then she had nothing different in mind than her stories.....Sorry..I dont want to see that anymore. If thats what fans want...no thanks. Her role was senseless...in the OT at least. In the 2003 toon she was weird as well.

A teen April is better in my eyes. Its something different..something new. Why not giving it a chance?!

[bwrosas]

Hello fellow ninja turtles fans,

Yes I am fairly new to this message board, but I came here not just as a fellow fan, but as someone that wants to give their own personal opinion on the TMNT franchise.

Now it just so happens, that ever since the new Nickelodeon incarnation of the ninja turtles debuted back last year, in my own opinion , I feel that there are some fans of the franchise that have embraced the new series, but yet find some flaws with it. And one of the major flaws/changes they find wrong with it or feel needs improvement is the idea to take the three (so far) main human characters and change/redesign them as teenagers. That in my opinion is one of the major flaws/changes that some fans at this message board and outside of it feel was unnecessary.

And you know what's funny, within this same time frame, you have another franchise which has a huge fanbase as well, and as of October of last year and throughout the majority of this year, it was revealed and shown that five of the main characters of the comic book adaptation for this franchise were getting redesigns, to make it seem like they came from the very video games that this comic book is based upon.

Now the reason I bring that up, is because just like the people/fans who don't agree with the deaging of April, Casey, and Karai. Fans of this franchise don't agree with the redesigns. And the reason being is because it betrays what the characters originally look like, and from a story standpoint, happens because the main hero of the comic book and overall franchise was interrupted by the main villain while trying to restore his world back to normal.

You may ask, "what does that have to do with April being a teenager?" Nothing really, except that just like with those characters getting redesigns after 20 years of having the same/similar designs, there are fans here within this franchise that find April, Casey, and Karai being turned into teenagers as being un-necessary.

True, some will argue that it was done so that April could grow up with the turtles, and learn just like they do, as well as have fun and make mistakes like any ordinary teenager would do.

Now that I can understand, from a realistic standpoint I can understand that. Except for what happened recently in this second season. Now I don't watch the new series as much as I should, the best way I'm informed about anything going on within this new series continuity, is either through the Internet in places like this or through my soon to be 10-year-old nephew, that's how I keep tabs as best as I can on what's going on in the series.

And, for a longtime fan like myself and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, I have no problem with some of the ideas and twists the they put into the series. I have no problem with the new original ideas for the backgrounds of certain characters, I have no problem with the twists they put on established characters and established backgrounds, I have no problem with them adding in new characters to help freshen the show and the franchise up. But for longtime fans like myself, I guess you could say it's more of a personal preference, that when I watch a ninja turtle series, that I am used to seeing the turtles interact with a semi-to fully adult April, Casey and Karai, more so then seeing them interact with the same characters as teenagers. Again, for a longtime fan like myself and possibly others out there, it's just a personal preference that's all.

And you see, I'm sure no one would have a problem with these characters being portrayed as teenagers, only if the personalities were a mixture of the previous incarnations personalities. The closest so far to that in this show, from what I have seen and heard, is Karai. The others not so much. I mean, if you're going to have April being upset with the turtles after losing her dad again, yeah I can understand that. But after being a fan for 25 out of the 30 years of this franchise, the April we know and have seen, would indeed be upset, but more understanding that the turtles, her friends if you will didn't mean for her father to become a mutated bat. That April would understand that. And not only understand, but with her friends help, be more determined to get her father back and restore him to normal.

However in this version, you have April so ticked off at her friends, that she shuts them off completely from her. Now, I have read what some of you have said. And yes her being portrayed as a teenager, shows how much harder this is for her to handle and that instead of thinking things out rationally, she goes the other way and lets her emotions get the best of her and override her rational thinking, to the point that instead of sitting down and talking it over with her friends, she blames them and then shuts them off from her life completely, or at least until maybe the midseason finale, if not sooner.

But think of it this way, put yourself in the shoes of a longtime fan, and you see April react the way she did here in the second season, for a majority of longtime fans like myself, in my own opinion that is, when we hear or see April react this way, we look at each other, we look at the show, and we all agree that this is not the April we know. That if this was a true to character April, even as a teenager, yes she would be upset, but not to the point where she completely shuns her friends from her.

Now as far as Casey goes, like many have said before, it's still too early to judge how they are going to portray his character throughout the series. Only clues and hints that we have gotten so far, even with his debut episode, is he's a player for the high school hockey team, his class performance, grade wise is bad, and that he's bound to become a mutant hater, for the short time being in the future. Those are the only clues we have on teenage Casey.

And speaking of which, as I mentioned in my original post, it seems we may be getting a love/relationship rivalry triangle between Donatello and Casey Jones with April stuck in the middle. Yeah if that wasn't hinted on in Casey's debut episode, I don't know what was.

And you see, that's another thing to, for any longtime fan, you know April and Casey end up together as a couple. Yet, never once was there ever a love triangle involving the two and somebody else. But yet that's what we will probably be getting with the new series. So as I mentioned in my original post, it seems Donatello versus Casey Jones is going to replace Raphael versus Casey Jones in this incarnation of the franchise.

And believe it or not, that's another gripe some fans have with the new series, that you're going to create a love/relationship rivalry triangle between these three. Which is something that previous incarnations never did. But I guess as the old saying goes, "there's a first time for everything."

Overall, as I said before the new series is good in its own special way. Yet as I and several others have pointed out, it does have its flaws and some of the changes that were made, just fill unnecessary or could have been done in a way that doesn't completely betray who the character is or who they may be. As well as doesn't mess with status quo romances by turning them into love/relationship rivalry triangle's.

Again, the series is good, it wouldn't be good if it didn't already have a third season planned. So those are just my opinions and perhaps they are shared by other fans in the community, but these are just my own opinions and thoughts on some of the changes in the show and the franchise that I along possibly with others feel all flawed and unnecessary. That is all.

[Tazi]

3. Yes...they're building for a Donnie/Casey rivalry. Just another change is all.

That's actually not that much of a change; they were never best pals in Mirage. If I'd want to simplify it I'd say it's because they're polar opposites, Casey is a jock, and Don is a nerd. The peak of this conflict were present in the Shades of Grey story arc, where drunk Casey attacked Don.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23327853/MS-TMNT-v1-%2349-c01.jpg

Even if this new show doesn't gets it's ideas from this story, I think it was a nice idea.

[Klunk1234]

I don't have a problem with April as a teen, it makes more sense to be around by 15 year old teens like the turtles.

I know she has a grudge against the boys for what happened to her father, but she can't avoid them for life. After all, the boys did so much for her like offering their house, so she can be safe.

In real life, there are people that turn their back after you have done so much for that person. In fact, many people hurt the ones that only give them love.

April will be reunited with the turtles and she will realized that she found real friends like no other.

[Bossa Nova]

If the writers were struggling with Don's character and all they could come up with to make him more 'interesting' was to give him some girl to crush on, then maybe they shouldn't be writing for this show.

[Electric]

If the writers were struggling with Don's character and all they could come up with to make him more 'interesting' was to give him some girl to crush on, then maybe they shouldn't be writing for this show.

They didn't say they were struggling, they just said out of the turtles, he needed it most to have someone to try and impress. If anything, Donnie has been the most interesting turtle so far. He's taken on so much responsibility that he's not sure if he can solve all of it, making him try harder.

[Coola Yagami]

They didn't say they were struggling, they just said out of the turtles, he needed it most to have someone to try and impress. If anything, Donnie has been the most interesting turtle so far. He's taken on so much responsibility that he's not sure if he can solve all of it, making him try harder.

I do like how he's actually working on it. I mean, he at least did rescue April's dad, and also is seen working on retromutagen. Not like the OT where he's like 'I'll help Usagi go home' and it's never seen or mentioned again.

[IMJ]

It's just Brian Walmer. He posts his crappy videos in pretty much any fandom message board he can. Best to just ignore him.

This whole thing was very strange. Some semi.... slow... 30-something weirdo posting talking heads without any production motif after he explains that he has to make his videos in secret because his mom might catch him.

That was very weird basement dweller stuff right there, man.

[Slime State Alumni]

LOL four pages in. Oh god my sides.

[BabyTurtles]

They didn't say they were struggling, they just said out of the turtles, he needed it most to have someone to try and impress. If anything, Donnie has been the most interesting turtle so far. He's taken on so much responsibility that he's not sure if he can solve all of it, making him try harder.

then why does does he need someone to impress...to me he didn't really need to crush on April...Donnie is already interesting in Nick's version

I like the episodes without April that are about Donnie. He's already cool.

his crush on April is just becoming a parasite to April's character.


and to tell you the truth......I can't even feel that bad that April left the turtles...cause she was barely friends with them anyway, except Donnie. There's only been about 3 episodes where she actually talked to any of them about something other than the plot. (and Donnie's crush)

they needed to flesh out April more before making her go all angry IMO.

that being said I love the idea of teen April....but not the way they are executing it.

[Karai Samurai]

then why does does he need someone to impress...to me he didn't really need to crush on April...Donnie is already interesting in Nick's version

I like the episodes without April that are about Donnie. He's already cool.

his crush on April is just becoming a parasite to April's character.

But isn't his crush on April part of the reason why he's such an interesting character? Sometimes the crush thing goes too far (Monkey Brains...) but the sense of responsibility he's developed to April and her father is what makes Donnie so likeable. Plus the crush stuff emphasizes the teenage part in TMNT.

I agree that April needs more development, but it seems like Ciro is wary of that because he's afraid of her getting "too powerful." That sucks.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I do indeed like this show and some prefer it over the previous cartoons for whatever reason. While some see the new changes that they've made as interesting, on the other hand, you have to look at it from a hardcore TMNT fan's perspective.

Without being a biased fanboy of one incarnation, here's some of my problems with the show.

The number one problem I have with it is that, while this show is trying to be something of it's own, I think there are times when it tries to be a bit fan-pandering. While I stated that I like the changes that they've made to some of the characters to the show, I can't help but feel that Ciro and the folks are just adding characters from the property for the sake of getting praise from the fans. Kirby did not need to be Wingnut because it served no purpose with how the mutant is. He could have been a totally new character like "Man Bat". Why exactly is Timothy called the Mutagen Man in this show. Mutagen Man was never even a popular character to begin with. And Pizza Face,.....uh, why are we bringing this never-heard-of character back again. I'm pleased that Ciro has respect for the old cartoon, I don't like the idea of him bringing back characters for the sake of fan-service. If you're going to do that, reinvent them to make them more interesting or relatable to the plot. It just goes into the whole identity issue this show suffers from.

April being a teenager is actually a unique idea. It helps her become more active with the turtles. And I'm actually like the strained relationship between her the turtles because it shows a bit of belief in the story and that they now have to find a way to fix this mess. Now I can see why some people are used to a more adult April and I am one of them but I think it's a unique idea and concept. With that said though, the only problem I have with her is that she doesn't seem to do a whole lot for the turtles despite being leagues ahead of the OT April. Certain episodes just seem to build her up as a character but the way she is used in the show, she seems to be just there. She really hasn't done anything unique to help the turtles or even the story for the matter. I think there is a lot more they can do with this character but that's up to them figure out how they can make it work.

Again, this is just my opinion.

[BabyTurtles]

But isn't his crush on April part of the reason why he's such an interesting character? Sometimes the crush thing goes too far (Monkey Brains...) but the sense of responsibility he's developed to April and her father is what makes Donnie so likeable. Plus the crush stuff emphasizes the teenage part in TMNT.

I agree that April needs more development, but it seems like Ciro is wary of that because he's afraid of her getting "too powerful." That sucks.

his connection to April does make him more interesting....but that's just it...

April should have a connection with all the turtles to form some interesting bond with them too.

I don't think it's fair to just give April's plot to mostly Donnie.

it only seems like Donnie is sad that she is gone...which makes it seem April wasn't that good of friends with the other turtles....cause they are like "whatever....April's gone for now"

it just doesn't seem right.

I'd be fine with Donnie's crush if they didn't make everything April related about Donnie too.

[DONATELLO DUZMACHINES]

I tried to watch the videos on the first page, but the guy lost me when opened with the whole thing about his mom taking a shower. Im a long time fan, I love the old stuff but I also love the new stuff, with any re interpretation of any source material there is going to be change and as a long time comic book reader Ive come to accept that and move on. Change is good, I like young April and toothless Casey and this feels like the first time that the turtles actually act like teenagers. To me its just a great time to be a turtle fan old and new.

[demonsweat]

This whole thing was very strange. Some semi.... slow... 30-something weirdo posting talking heads without any production motif after he explains that he has to make his videos in secret because his mom might catch him.

That was very weird basement dweller stuff right there, man.

I tried to watch the videos on the first page, but the guy lost me when opened with the whole thing about his mom taking a shower.

http://i.imgur.com/FQdoJie.jpg

[Avatar Yuffie]

I like how Black Nerd commented his annoyance of two guys crushing on April. It was funny.

Doug Walker is right though, unless it's a comedy, love triangles just drag the narrative down. So hopefully that show won't make the mistake Legend of Korra did.

I don't really have an issue with teen April. Since the OT, she doesn't need to be loyal to the original depiction of the character.

[Bossa Nova]

But isn't his crush on April part of the reason why he's such an interesting character? Sometimes the crush thing goes too far (Monkey Brains...) but the sense of responsibility he's developed to April and her father is what makes Donnie so likeable. Plus the crush stuff emphasizes the teenage part in TMNT.

I agree that April needs more development, but it seems like Ciro is wary of that because he's afraid of her getting "too powerful." That sucks.

I guess it depends on your interpretation of interesting. I've always found Don interesting in past versions. His crush on April doesn't make him more interesting to me, instead I'm finding more and more that my favorite turtle comes off as embarrassing, overly awkward, and downright creepy stalkerish, and I'm not really sure I like him all that much when April's around. Don's responsibility for April's dad could have still been a strong driving element for his growth and character seeing as he's the only one with the scientific know-how to do even begin working on something like, and his whole 'I'm doing it cause I love her' factor would never even have to come into play. Instead, Don would be developing into someone who takes responsibility for his actions, not just another fanboy trying to get some girl to like him.

[Coola Yagami]

Now don't get me wrong, I like the current April, but why is everyone acting all like 'she HAS to be younger' to work in this series? She was always an adult everywhere else and it worked out. I like the new direction they went with her, but let's not act like she had to be younger to 'work' on the show. I just kinda hate that thanks to her, Karai had to be de-aged as well to be some sort of rival to her. We're lucky Chris and Xever weren't random punk kids.

[Slime State Alumni]

http://i.imgur.com/FQdoJie.jpg

Pretty much, yeah.

[Refractive Reflections]

But isn't his crush on April part of the reason why he's such an interesting character? Sometimes the crush thing goes too far (Monkey Brains...) but the sense of responsibility he's developed to April and her father is what makes Donnie so likeable. Plus the crush stuff emphasizes the teenage part in TMNT.

I agree that April needs more development, but it seems like Ciro is wary of that because he's afraid of her getting "too powerful." That sucks.

I guess it depends on your interpretation of interesting. I've always found Don interesting in past versions. His crush on April doesn't make him more interesting to me, instead I'm finding more and more that my favorite turtle comes off as embarrassing, overly awkward, and downright creepy stalkerish, and I'm not really sure I like him all that much when April's around. Don's responsibility for April's dad could have still been a strong driving element for his growth and character seeing as he's the only one with the scientific know-how to do even begin working on something like, and his whole 'I'm doing it cause I love her' factor would never even have to come into play. Instead, Don would be developing into someone who takes responsibility for his actions, not just another fanboy trying to get some girl to like him.

That's why I'm critical of how shows do shipping because most of the time it seems to restrict character growth and makes them more one-dimensional (with Nick Donnie, overemphasis on the crush dialogue) rather than make the characters self-reflect about their own personalities (i.e. Ninjara with Archie Raphael). But it's not surprising since this is a kids' show, and its rare that they would explore dating relationships since kids would see it as "that grown up icky stuff" and involves "cooties".

A mother figure? Maybe I have missed something?...To me she only was a whiney woman, that wasnt able to look out for herself (especially in the OT) and in almost every episode the turtles had to rescue her. Additionally she was often groaning how immature the turtles were. Then she had nothing different in mind than her stories.....Sorry..I dont want to see that anymore. If thats what fans want...no thanks. Her role was senseless...in the OT at least. In the 2003 toon she was weird as well.

A teen April is better in my eyes. Its something different..something new. Why not giving it a chance?!
If it wasn't for OT April, the Turtles wouldn't be able to get most of their information of the outside world. (Her role was clearly established when Splinter emphasized they needed her contacts and skills as a reporter in the third OT episode, "A Thing About Rats".) As for her "nothing different in mind than her stories"? I'm sure many people would react that way about their work, if they worked for a demanding boss like Burne Thompson who threatened firing their employees all the time and a work schedule that demands being the first source of updated, exclusive information.

As for teen April, we'll see how it develops but if it was merely to be a peer of the Turtles (and therefore a chance for her to be involved with the Turtles), then it would be a hollow unsatisfying change as Leo656 was alluding to earlier.

[Electric]

I guess it depends on your interpretation of interesting. I've always found Don interesting in past versions. His crush on April doesn't make him more interesting to me, instead I'm finding more and more that my favorite turtle comes off as embarrassing, overly awkward, and downright creepy stalkerish, and I'm not really sure I like him all that much when April's around. Don's responsibility for April's dad could have still been a strong driving element for his growth and character seeing as he's the only one with the scientific know-how to do even begin working on something like, and his whole 'I'm doing it cause I love her' factor would never even have to come into play. Instead, Don would be developing into someone who takes responsibility for his actions, not just another fanboy trying to get some girl to like him.

He's not doing it because he loves her though. He's doing it because they were responsible, and he's probably the only one that can do it and it's what's right.His theory is not "if I turn her dad back she'll like me" he's doing it to give her dad back, not to get her to like him. It's the same as with Timothy. He's not changing him back for any reason other than he feels responsible.

[BubblyShell22]

LeotheLateBloomer, Tim is not Newtralizer. He's Mutagen Man. You made a mistake there and should fix that.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

LeotheLateBloomer, Tim is not Newtralizer. He's Mutagen Man. You made a mistake there and should fix that.

Yeah, my mistake. I fixed it just now.:P

[Krang100]

In the begining, i didn't like the idea about April and Karai's deaged. Ironically, the video game based on this like TMNT out of the shadows, shows an adult version of April and Karai as well.

[BabyTurtles]

In the begining, i didn't like the idea about April and Karai's deaged. Ironically, the video game based on this like TMNT out of the shadows, shows an adult version of April and Karai as well.

In TMNT out of the shadows she was still a teen :-?

[Coola Yagami]

In TMNT out of the shadows she was still a teen :-?

No...? She was a young adult there.

Plus Out of the Shadows wasn't based on any specific version, but used a lot of Nick references, so it kinda made sense to use adult April and Karai, since that's how they're most commonly portrayed.

[Garfield]

The number one problem I have with it is that, while this show is trying to be something of it's own, I think there are times when it tries to be a bit fan-pandering. While I stated that I like the changes that they've made to some of the characters to the show, I can't help but feel that Ciro and the folks are just adding characters from the property for the sake of getting praise from the fans. Kirby did not need to be Wingnut because it served no purpose with how the mutant is. He could have been a totally new character like "Man Bat". Why exactly is Timothy called the Mutagen Man in this show. Mutagen Man was never even a popular character to begin with. And Pizza Face,.....uh, why are we bringing this never-heard-of character back again. I'm pleased that Ciro has respect for the old cartoon, I don't like the idea of him bringing back characters for the sake of fan-service. If you're going to do that, reinvent them to make them more interesting or relatable to the plot. It just goes into the whole identity issue this show suffers from.



This is my sentiment as well. Probably the only thing that I'd say sticks out as REALLY annoying to me.

I'm a long time TMNT fan and i'm mostly indifferent to this cartoon. Its okay, I have personal standards and I'm not going to like everything TMNT related. This cartoon is a fun watch from time to time, but for what it is, I can't get passionately into it. Its okay. a lot of other people really enjoy it and i'm very glad for that.

[Electric]

I do indeed like this show and some prefer it over the previous cartoons for whatever reason. While some see the new changes that they've made as interesting, on the other hand, you have to look at it from a hardcore TMNT fan's perspective.

Without being a biased fanboy of one incarnation, here's some of my problems with the show.

The number one problem I have with it is that, while this show is trying to be something of it's own, I think there are times when it tries to be a bit fan-pandering. While I stated that I like the changes that they've made to some of the characters to the show, I can't help but feel that Ciro and the folks are just adding characters from the property for the sake of getting praise from the fans. Kirby did not need to be Wingnut because it served no purpose with how the mutant is. He could have been a totally new character like "Man Bat". Why exactly is Timothy called the Mutagen Man in this show. Mutagen Man was never even a popular character to begin with. And Pizza Face,.....uh, why are we bringing this never-heard-of character back again. I'm pleased that Ciro has respect for the old cartoon, I don't like the idea of him bringing back characters for the sake of fan-service. If you're going to do that, reinvent them to make them more interesting or relatable to the plot. It just goes into the whole identity issue this show suffers from.

April being a teenager is actually a unique idea. It helps her become more active with the turtles. And I'm actually like the strained relationship between her the turtles because it shows a bit of belief in the story and that they now have to find a way to fix this mess. Now I can see why some people are used to a more adult April and I am one of them but I think it's a unique idea and concept. With that said though, the only problem I have with her is that she doesn't seem to do a whole lot for the turtles despite being leagues ahead of the OT April. Certain episodes just seem to build her up as a character but the way she is used in the show, she seems to be just there. She really hasn't done anything unique to help the turtles or even the story for the matter. I think there is a lot more they can do with this character but that's up to them figure out how they can make it work.

Again, this is just my opinion.

naming kirby wingnut was unecessary. but i can see why he would do it. kirby mutated into a bat, theres a mutant bat in tmnt, as far as we know, that wont be appearing in this series, so why not throw in one line referring to the character.

with mutagen man though, it doesnt matter that he was unpopular. if anything thats more incentive to add him. it gave him a new take, new look, new tragic backstory. its not like he took a carbon copy of the unpopular old one and threw it in this series. he took an old character, and developed a different interpretation of it.

with april, i have to disagree and say she has contributed to the story. her situation drove the turtles to take on the kraang, to get her father. her connection to the kraang gave the turtles reason to defend her. so she has helped the story.

as for helping the turtles, yeah she hasnt done much. but shes done what she could for the time. she spied on shredder and got the information on how he was going to blow up the sewers. she found out about the mutagen bomb. she helped them locate the kraang ship. she delivered leatherhead to tcri. she also told raph where to find leo and karai. some of these are significant, some arent, but in her situation, shes done what her character could do at the time.

but with that, there is definitely a lot more she can do now, and i hope they develop that.

[rodster6]

God how I wish this thread was locked.

Why does it need to be locked? If you don't like it you can just ignore it. There is no rule that you have to read it or post in it.

[Coola Yagami]

Why does it need to be locked? If you don't like it you can just ignore it. There is no rule that you have to read it or post in it.

Cybercubed lives to lock threads. If he was mod, 79% of the threads here would have been locked or deleted.

[CyberCubed]

Because this is nothing more than a complaint thread acting like long term fans dislike the show when it couldn't be further from the truth.

[Coola Yagami]

Because this is nothing more than a complaint thread acting like long term fans dislike the show when it couldn't be further from the truth.

But there ARE long term fans that dislike the show. Not everyone's opinion matches yours dude. Think outside the damn box for once.

[rodster6]

Because this is nothing more than a complaint thread acting like long term fans dislike the show when it couldn't be further from the truth.

Don't read it then? Can't censor every opinion in the world you don't agree with.

I've never really liked April and could happily have lived without her in any TMNT cartoons but I don't know how anyone could argue the original cartoon version was better than the new series version. All she did in the old cartoon was get in the way and get captured. At least the new one has character development and more personality.
I'm fine with her falling out with the Turtles too. People have fallings out and relationships break down no matter how close they are or have been. Though I am biased as I don't really care for April, the longer they feud the less screen time she gets.

[The Sewer Lord]

As a long time fan, there are lots of things I dislike about Nick TMNT. Most of time, these flaws don't bother me to the point that I can't bear to see even a glimpse of an episode. However, this new, second, season though, has many flaws which make the show even worse. Compared to its precedessor, this season is very, very bad. I won't call it garbage, but if this is how the rest of the season will be like, then it definetely is. And no, this is not because of April's de-aging (which also brings Karai and Casey to the mix). :roll: Although the de-aging changes the way the chracter gets developed, it still doesn't change what the writer want to receive from it.

Anyway, here's a list of all the things I dislike about the show:


A frequent move made by the writers in this series is to simply forget about an arc still in progress so that another one can develop, grow and become more complex. What's up with that? I know the show tries to joggle around with multiple arcs at the same time which exist all at the same time, simply forgetting about one arc so that another can develop is a very bad move. It's simply wrong. Here are a few examples:


April's heritige and origin. In the first season, there's something special about April and her mind powers that the Kraang could put to their use. She has very powerful telepathy, she's immune to Kraang water... but the writers never explain why. Where did she get these powers from? This was simply forgotten and the first season finale. She's now safe and there's no need to explain where she got these powers from. Which is kinda dumb.
Leonardo is in love with Karai. But after "Karai's Vendetta", there's no mention of this! Leonardo is no longer in denial, Raph doesn't confront him about it... nothing. And then Splinter reveales to him Karai is his daughter. What? They never show how Leo reacts to this. He's totally fine that he's in love with his step-sister! And there's no reaction from the other turtles either!
Mikey and Bradford's relationship. The two were "friends" a long time, why don't the other characters aknoweledge this? Not even by Mickey and Bradford themselves! This could have used as a great development tool in "Mickey Gets Shellacne". But we didn't get it. Sadly.


That's simply silly. :o

The show often never explains what exactly is going on. Somethings are left unexplained, with no explanation where did these things come from or how they work, why do they work... nothing. Here are a few examples:


The mutagen. They never explain how it works, what the Kraang want it to do, why do is do things... all we get is "It's unpredictable!" Seriously? That's your big explanation!? This mutagen never follows a pattern: in one episode, in fuses creatures of two species; in another, it burn your skins; in a different one, it gives you telepathy (although they did say Dr. Falco made some changes to the mutagen); in yet a different one, it turns you into an alien... there's no explanation how the circumstances affect the product of the mutagen.
What is the opinion of every average Joe about crazy mutants roaming around the city? Aren't people freaked out that they see mutants daily trying to eat them or kill them? Snakeweed, the monkey doctor, Ball-- I mean Spiderbytez, Justin, the cockroach... Aren't the authorities worried? No contamination of the city? Seriously?
How does that battery from "I Think His Name Is Baxter Stockman" work? On what does it work? Magic!? Seriously - that thing simply attached to Baxter suit and turned it into a giant powerful tank. The episode seriously undermined Baxter's genius as simply a automatic - even though later on, without having that battery, he still made more powerful and better tech than before. That's utterly silly? Where did Donnie actually find that thing? He simply found it in the garbage!? :x
Like I said before, April's powers. :D


Logic? Where are you going? Oh, he's going through the window. :roll:

The villains often get some very silly designes and names. Take a look at Spiderbytez. He's name makes no sense. If he was the one that got merged with tech, then it would have made sense. You know, "bite" and "byte"? And take a look at his design. He looks like a bowling ball. With arms. And legs. And-- whatever those are. And Snakeweed. I would have understood if he was a by-product of bith snakes and weed, but because he was called "Snake"? Serously? Although I have to say, the name does sound catchy. :P

This new, second, season, has been trying to introduce a development web, a situation where all the characters' development are connected to each other and relying on each other. If one chracter changes, then the another does. One change leads to a hundred new more. Of course, I have to aplaud the writers for having the sheer guts to do something like this instead of less complicated development. Of couse, they have great ideas of what to do and how for the characters to change, but they're not executing it well. Here are a few examples:


The Leo-Splinter-Karai relationship I mentioned before. :D
Bradford development started to occur too late. Development is not something that occurs in just one episode, it's something that takes places ove episodes and seasons. But this episode introduces us to Bradford problems. The thing is, they should have done this before! We should've seen how the character grows tired of the situation to reach the one we see in "Mikey Gets Shellacne". Also, they should've shown his reactions to his absense in the dojo. That would've been even better development. Although his development was simply great.
In "Mikey Gets Shellacne", the humor overshadowed Mikey's development. Of course humor is needed when developing this version of Mikey, but that was simply too much.
In the first season of the show, April was simply a plot device. She wasn't a character. She was simply there for Donnie to love and Kraang to chase. It was great to see that the writers have decided to take a new direction with the character and simply develop her. That moment at the end of the season premiere was simply great! But with "Mutagen Man Unleashed", the character was simply ruined. She turned into a jerk and an idiot when she refused to help the turtles, even though they saved her multiple times. Yes, she can be mad, they mutated her father, but let's not forget they saved him in the first place.


This bad ways of developing the show are making me dislike the show more and more. If the show continues like this, I might quit watching it.


And that's pretty much it. I haven't seen "Target: April O'Neil", so there might be something redeeming the show about it.

[Refractive Reflections]

The Sewer Lord, most of the reasons you listed are why the show is becoming progressively disappointing for me, except instead of having these reasons all in one post, they are scattered throughout the Nick forum. :lol:

The series does have a few good episodes: "The Gauntlet", "Baxter's Gambit", and "Follow the Leader", but its a jilting experience when 2-3 episodes later the series undermines those developments by either ignoring the character arcs (not expanding on Dogpound's character), making the character forget about what they learned/witnessed (Mikey using the mutagen on "Mikey Gets Shellacne"), and being negligent in adhering to some form of universal laws that they have created or at least implied from earlier (i.e. the Nick mutagen).

For me, the "Mikey Gets Shellacne" episode is probably going to be noted as creating a "tarnishing spot" upon the series because there's really no excuse on why Mikey used that mutagen. Mikey's behavior diminishes the intense drama/darkness the show was priding itself on earlier (Timothy's mutation in "The Pulverizer Returns"). If somebody makes an argument the series has character growth, at least with Mikey, that episode would contradict that claim (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1179786&postcount=176). For all I know things could change completely in the direction of the show, but for now that situation clearly displays the lack of progressive character growth, with Mikey at least...

I still have to watch "Target: April O' Neil", but in my opinion, it's a bit worrisome and unusual that more people are interested and excited for whatever new created villains, numerous TMNT franchise references, and possible shipping this series makes, rather than people being just as excited or more so for the plot, characters, etc. It just makes the series more hollow and flamboyant when the audience is supposed to be dazzled by the new imaginative mutants, TMNT references, and fight scenes but yet the characters stagnate or regress from their experiences (Mikey's experience with mutagen), or the series flies right past that without exploring it (Dogpound's character era).

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well you are correct with Mutagen Man. He is unique in his own right and I like what they are doing with him in this new series. However, bringing back old characters for the sake of appeasing us is not helping the show stand out. Old characters should be brought back in a unique way. Like the Foot Soldiers (Foot Bots) in this series show skill and progression the more they take damage. As robots, they learn from the master and try to replicate it successfully. Also, The one nitpick I had with today's episode was using the "Chrome Dome" name on the robot just because it debuted in the 1987 toon. At this point, I'm more looking forward to the new mutants of the show like the Tiger one.

[The Sewer Lord]

The Sewer Lord, most of the reasons you listed are why the show is becoming progressively disappointing for me, except instead of having these reasons all in one post, they are scattered throughout the Nick forum. :lol:

I'm making an OK face right now. :(
But seriously, but I have seen a lot of fan wanks similar to mine. But I still haven't seen anyone other than me mention the villain's names and designes.

The series does have a few good episodes: "The Gauntlet", "Baxter's Gambit", and "Follow the Leader", but its a jilting experience when 2-3 episodes later the series undermines those developments by either ignoring the character arcs (not expanding on Dogpound's character), making the character forget about what they learned/witnessed (Mikey using the mutagen on "Mikey Gets Shellacne"), and being negligent in adhering to some form of universal laws that they have created or at least implied from earlier (i.e. the Nick mutagen).

That pretty mcuh is a short version of my first point. :lol:

For me, the "Mikey Gets Shellacne" episode is probably going to be noted as creating a "tarnishing spot" upon the series because there's really no excuse on why Mikey used that mutagen. Mikey's behavior diminishes the intense drama/darkness the show was priding itself on earlier (Timothy's mutation in "The Pulverizer Returns"). If somebody makes an argument the series has character growth, at least with Mikey, that episode would contradict that claim (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1179786&postcount=176). For all I know things could change completely in the direction of the show, but for now that situation clearly displays the lack of progressive character growth, with Mikey at least...

I still have to watch "Target: April O' Neil", but in my opinion, it's a bit worrisome and unusual that more people are interested and excited for whatever new created villains, numerous TMNT franchise references, and possible shipping this series makes, rather than people being just as excited or more so for the plot, characters, etc. It just makes the series more hollow and flamboyant when the audience is supposed to be dazzled by the new imaginative mutants, TMNT references, and fight scenes but yet the characters stagnate or regress from their experiences (Mikey's experience with mutagen), or the series flies right past that without exploring it (Dogpound's character era).

You're absolutely correct.

I am now left speeechless. No really. I got nothing to reply to you anymore. :-?

[The Sewer Lord]

Well you are correct with Mutagen Man. He is unique in his own right and I like what they are doing with him in this new series.

Mutagen Man is better in this series than he was in the OT. I liked the OT version too, but this one stands out.

However, bringing back old characters for the sake of appeasing us is not helping the show stand out. Old characters should be brought back in a unique way. Like the Foot Soldiers (Foot Bots) in this series show skill and progression the more they take damage. As robots, they learn from the master and try to replicate it successfully. Also, The one nitpick I had with today's episode was using the "Chrome Dome" name on the robot just because it debuted in the 1987 toon.

True, true.

At this point, I'm more looking forward to the new mutants of the show like the Tiger one.

Oh, you mean Tigerclaw (http://tmnt2012series.wikia.com/wiki/Tiger_Claw)?

[Refractive Reflections]

I'm making an OK face right now. :(
But seriously, but I have seen a lot of fan wanks similar to mine. But I still haven't seen anyone other than me mention the villain's names and designes.


Oh no, I'm with you somewhat on the villains' names and designs. :) I probably have to think about that some more, but I just relented more or less after "The Mutation Situation" that the series just wanted to add mutants for the sake of doing so, or possibly to fulfill an action figure "quota" (being pressured by Nick's merchandising). It's just with me, that aspect is obscured with this series having much deeper flaws with its characters. :lol:

[The Sewer Lord]

Oh no, I'm with you somewhat on the villains' names and designs. :) I probably have to think about that some more, but I just relented more or less after "The Mutation Situation" that the series just wanted to add mutants for the sake of doing so, or possibly to fulfill an action figure "quota" (being pressured by Nick's merchandising). It's just with me, that aspect is obscured with this series having much deeper flaws with its characters. :lol:

That's the point of the second season. To introduce as much as mutants as it can, which is my greatest fear about the season - too many mutants and no character or plot development.

[Refractive Reflections]

That's the point of the second season. To introduce as much as mutants as it can, which is my greatest fear about the season - too many mutants and no character or plot development.

Right with you there too Sewer Lord. :D I mean if we peel away those more superficial aspects of the series (the new mutants, the TMNT references, the shipping, the flashy fight scenes), how much material does this series really stand on? Especially when its not attentive to its characters and subplots? Again, I can be proven wrong as soon as next month to the next couple of seasons, but right now... **shrug** :ohwell:

[sdp]

I don't like it too much, it's enjoyable but definitely a disappointment. I don't know what it is, it's abusing things like mutation and changing established characters too much or using new characters that resemble older characters. I like it for what it is but I expected it to outdo 2k3 and it hasn't and doesn't look like it ever will.

[beavercartoon]

And you know what's funny, within this same time frame, you have another franchise which has a huge fanbase as well, and as of October of last year and throughout the majority of this year, it was revealed and shown that five of the main characters of the comic book adaptation for this franchise were getting redesigns, to make it seem like they came from the very video games that this comic book is based upon.

Now the reason I bring that up, is because just like the people/fans who don't agree with the deaging of April, Casey, and Karai. Fans of this franchise don't agree with the redesigns. And the reason being is because it betrays what the characters originally look like, and from a story standpoint, happens because the main hero of the comic book and overall franchise was interrupted by the main villain while trying to restore his world back to normal.

You may ask, "what does that have to do with April being a teenager?" Nothing really, except that just like with those characters getting redesigns after 20 years of having the same/similar designs, there are fans here within this franchise that find April, Casey, and Karai being turned into teenagers as being un-necessary.

True, some will argue that it was done so that April could grow up with the turtles, and learn just like they do, as well as have fun and make mistakes like any ordinary teenager would do.

Now that I can understand, from a realistic standpoint I can understand that. Except for what happened recently in this second season. Now I don't watch the new series as much as I should, the best way I'm informed about anything going on within this new series continuity, is either through the Internet in places like this or through my soon to be 10-year-old nephew, that's how I keep tabs as best as I can on what's going on in the series.

I would have addressed this post earlier, but I'm new to the forums and my account was only recently activated.

I know you from other forums, so although you didn't name the other franchise I know you were talking about Archie Sonic even though it never needed to be brought up in this topic. But since you mentioned it: I am a 'long-time fan' of Sonic. I started reading the comics late in the 90's, and it always bothered me that characters from the games (Sonic, Knuckles, etc.) looked very different from those who originated in cartoons (Sally, Antoine, etc.) and comic book exclusive characters (Mina, Warlord Kodos, etc.) I spent a good 14 or so years wishing for style cohesion. The redesigns were long overdue to make them more identifiable as the SEGA brand, thus appeal to casual customers as well as people who prefer comic art to have a uniform style and adhere to model sheets.

Archie Sonic was building towards a gradual reveal of the character redesigns, supplying reasons for extreme changes. Antoine, for example, was wounded and seen covered in bandages so any changes to his face could be seen as the result of reconstructive surgery. The abrupt transition of a hero and villain fight and accidentally change history happened not because the author wanted to alienate the old fanbase but because LEGAL troubles necessitated a change. Many of the old cast members were rendered off-limits after Archie failed to regain their copyright in a long, drawn-out lawsuit. There had to be some in-universe explanation for why those characters are gone. Maybe it wasn't the best possible idea/execution but the author (Ian Flynn) was trying to do the best he could under limiting circumstances. But even without the lawsuit the remaining characters still would have gotten redesigned because their old appearance didn't fit the overall series style.

Characters from long running franchises get redesigned periodically, whether you like it or not. This is also why April doesn't wear a yellow jumpsuit all the time or always work for a news crew, despite that being the most well-known representation of her character (although it wasn't the first portrayal of April.) Nickelodeon's April still has red hair and yellow as her primary clothing color so I don't think it would be too hard for fans of the OT to look at the character and know "that must be April!" even before someone says her name.

This is hardly the first time any of the TMNT characters have changed in appearance, age, or backstory. April was heavily implied to be a curly, dark-haired black woman in the first Mirage comics and while I loved that design, I still expect April to be a carrot top in most versions because that's the character model they've settled on (sort of like how Link from Legend of Zelda has been a blond for years, despite originally having auburn or brown hair in sprites and artwork.) She might have bright red hair like in 2k3, short hair like in the OT, or an orange-red ponytail in Nick TMNT, or any other variation thereof, but she's still April O'Neil. Splinter is sometimes an old man turned rat, a younger man turned rat, or just a mutated rat that used to be Hamato Yoshi's pet. It doesn't change his character too drastically. I might prefer Splinter the mutated rat to Splinter the rat/human hybrid, but as long as he still acts like a father figure to the turtles, I'm cool.

The Sonic characters still have essentially the same personalities and relationships they did before a lawsuit forced some changes to their backstory. I can still accept them for who they are. If you can't, that's your decision and you're entitled to feel that way. But please, DON'T presume to speak for all fans.

PS. The length of time you spend in a fandom is not some automatic badge of honor that makes you better at determining how stories ought to be written. A new fan has just as much of a right to their opinions as an older one does.

(I'd also like to apologize if I derailed this topic with excessive talk of Sonic, and I'll try to keep the discussion more TMNT-centric from this point forward.)

[Metalwolf]

That's the point of the second season. To introduce as much as mutants as it can, which is my greatest fear about the season - too many mutants and no character or plot development.That's mine as well. I think it's to shill toys, and this minimal plot stuff and random filler episodes is getting on my nerves. They can use plot and character development to introduce new characters for the toys, instead of just dropping in a ton of no-name or lame 'filler' mutants, which I bet most of these 'toys' will prove to be.

Several plot points I'd wish they'd get to developing already:
Miwa/Karai being Splinter's biological daughter. You don't throw hints and drop this big a bombshell and then have the characters not react to it or do much with it. It makes Splinter look like he doesn't care now, especially as we were seeing him looking sad whenever his old life was brought up before.

Whatever the big deal is with April. She's made as this big maguffin the Kraang are after, so lets get the ball rolling. I know they're going to explore this a bit more after the show comes back on, but it'd better not just be a single piece interspersed between yet more random mutant episodes.

Dopound's development. We just recently learned that he wanted to become human again, and why. Also Shredder is being heavily implied to intend to replace him and Xever with Tigerclaw. And to add to this powder-keg drama, Karai walks off with Baxter, callously leaving Bradford and Xever possibly for dead after their electrocution, a move that might set them on her. A big civil war likely brewing in the bad guy camp, and it's barely touched on?

Molecular Centrifuge. Donnie can do things with it that he couldn't have done previously (like making the 'acne' antidote' and theoretically making retro-mutagen.) It's another big item to have, but I'm betting it will just become some glorified paperweight and forgotten about. :roll:

[beavercartoon]

They already forgot about the centrifuge. Donnie found one in Parasitica (where Mikey could follow advice and use it to save the day), but then they turtles needed to get another one in Mikey Gets Shell Acne (and Mikey can't tell this centrifuge apart from a beaker, or a microscope, or the same beaker...) :lol:

[Aaronardo]

How the **** is this thread not closed?

[CyberCubed]

LOL, the very first post in this thread was saying, "This threads needs to be locked."

[Coola Yagami]

That's mine as well. I think it's to shill toys, and this minimal plot stuff and random filler episodes is getting on my nerves. They can use plot and character development to introduce new characters for the toys, instead of just dropping in a ton of no-name or lame 'filler' mutants, which I bet most of these 'toys' will prove to be.

Several plot points I'd wish they'd get to developing already:
Miwa/Karai being Splinter's biological daughter. You don't throw hints and drop this big a bombshell and then have the characters not react to it or do much with it. It makes Splinter look like he doesn't care now, especially as we were seeing him looking sad whenever his old life was brought up before.

Whatever the big deal is with April. She's made as this big maguffin the Kraang are after, so lets get the ball rolling. I know they're going to explore this a bit more after the show comes back on, but it'd better not just be a single piece interspersed between yet more random mutant episodes.

Dopound's development. We just recently learned that he wanted to become human again, and why. Also Shredder is being heavily implied to intend to replace him and Xever with Tigerclaw. And to add to this powder-keg drama, Karai walks off with Baxter, callously leaving Bradford and Xever possibly for dead after their electrocution, a move that might set them on her. A big civil war likely brewing in the bad guy camp, and it's barely touched on?

Molecular Centrifuge. Donnie can do things with it that he couldn't have done previously (like making the 'acne' antidote' and theoretically making retro-mutagen.) It's another big item to have, but I'm betting it will just become some glorified paperweight and forgotten about. :roll:

I agree with all these points. The show suffers from a severe case of plot amnesia. Noone gives a crap about April's father until whenever he comes back again. Splinter doesn't really care about the Karai/Miwa thing unless it's another Karai episode. And so forth.

I think Ciro wants all the episodes to be one-shots to prevent boring the kids with plot continuity or something like that.... But dude... you can't have it both ways. Either make it an ongoing story with multi-part arcs or make it episodic. Doesn't work as well when you try to do both.

[Shark_Blade]

How the **** is this thread not closed?

Ditto. *facepalm*

[Coola Yagami]

Ditto. *facepalm*

Why facepalm? This thread brought up a lot of valid points of discussion.

[Metalwolf]

I think Ciro wants all the episodes to be one-shots to prevent boring the kids with plot continuity or something like that.... But dude... you can't have it both ways. Either make it an ongoing story with multi-part arcs or make it episodic. Doesn't work as well when you try to do both.If he is trying to not bore the kids with plot continuity, then he's going to have real trouble resolving everything if he wants to give the show a tangible ending at the last season. Plus I think he's underestimating kids' attention spans, there were a bunch of kids able to sit through the 2003 Turtles, and that had plot stuff galore. He's underestimating his audience, and eventually kids might grow bored if all they have is filler episodes.

[The Sewer Lord]

That's mine as well. I think it's to shill toys, and this minimal plot stuff and random filler episodes is getting on my nerves. They can use plot and character development to introduce new characters for the toys, instead of just dropping in a ton of no-name or lame 'filler' mutants, which I bet most of these 'toys' will prove to be.

Yeah. It's pretty much "quantity over quality".

Molecular Centrifuge. Donnie can do things with it that he couldn't have done previously (like making the 'acne' antidote' and theoretically making retro-mutagen.) It's another big item to have, but I'm betting it will just become some glorified paperweight and forgotten about. :roll:

Well technically, Mikey poured a failed batch of retro-mutagen on himself, so the cure was a "retro-retro-mutagen". If that makes any sense. :ohwell:

They already forgot about the centrifuge. Donnie found one in Parasitica (where Mikey could follow advice and use it to save the day), but then they turtles needed to get another one in Mikey Gets Shell Acne (and Mikey can't tell this centrifuge apart from a beaker, or a microscope, or the same beaker...) :lol:

Mikey's getting dumber with each new ep. :roll:

I think Ciro wants all the episodes to be one-shots to prevent boring the kids with plot continuity or something like that.... But dude... you can't have it both ways. Either make it an ongoing story with multi-part arcs or make it episodic. Doesn't work as well when you try to do both.

The OT handled that pretty well. It had a specific type of arcs, you know. Like Shredder searching for a power source for the Technodrome.

[ZariusTwo]

this feels like the first time that the turtles actually act like teenagers.

Have you ever been around teenagers?

The simple fact is the Turtles behavior in this show does not make them endearing or for that matter likeable. They come off as irksome, irritating, incapable of learning lessons and instead cause more problems, they havent budged an inch in development over two whole seasons, where as every other interpretation learned things much quicker and grew a hell of a lot and gained more dimension in half the time it's taken the Nick incarnations.

How the **** is this thread not closed?

Because concise, well-reasoned points about the show's very apparent flaws is a far step above sucking corporate kool-aid and playing obediant brand loyalist.

[Jester]

1. We don't have "2 whole seasons." Season 2 is less than 1/3 of the was through.
2. 4Kids Mikey completely degraded over the course of the series, going from learning he does good from the shadows as opposed to out in the open as Turtle Titan to fighting with Raph over a magic cape.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

4Kids Mikey completely degraded over the course of the series, going from learning he does good from the shadows as opposed to out in the open as Turtle Titan to fighting with Raph over a magic cape.

I agree. But remember, given the dark tone of the show, he was their only good source of comic relief. I honestly can't think of much humor in the show that didn't come from Mikey in later seasons (there were a couple goofy Casey moments, but seriously, that's it). I'm not saying I approve of his idiocy later in the show, but I can understand why it was done.

[Coola Yagami]

The OT handled that pretty well. It had a specific type of arcs, you know. Like Shredder searching for a power source for the Technodrome.

True, but the OT wanted it set to a way where the episodes don't have to played in a certain order and you can miss a few episodes without missing anything important. Aside from a few eps that introduced a character or so, most of the season 3 eps could be rerunned in random order... and they pretty much were.

This show kinda wants to be that episodic with filler after filler and people forgetting important things like Karai being Miwa and April's father being missing until the plot calls for it again. But then you throw in series-altering events like Rahzar, Slash, wether or not Baxter is working for the Foot again etc.

Can't have it both ways. Make it one one-going storyline, or make it episodic. Not this bizzare mixture of both.

[Jester]

I agree. But remember, given the dark tone of the show, he was their only good source of comic relief. I honestly can't think of much humor in the show that didn't come from Mikey in later seasons (there were a couple goofy Casey moments, but seriously, that's it). I'm not saying I approve of his idiocy later in the show, but I can understand why it was done.
Which shows how weak the 4Kids show was comedically. It forced all the humor into one character...and often times he came off as obnoxious.

[The Sewer Lord]

1. We don't have "2 whole seasons." Season 2 is less than 1/3 of the was through.
2. 4Kids Mikey completely degraded over the course of the series, going from learning he does good from the shadows as opposed to out in the open as Turtle Titan to fighting with Raph over a magic cape.

I agree. But remember, given the dark tone of the show, he was their only good source of comic relief. I honestly can't think of much humor in the show that didn't come from Mikey in later seasons (there were a couple goofy Casey moments, but seriously, that's it). I'm not saying I approve of his idiocy later in the show, but I can understand why it was done.

Which shows how weak the 4Kids show was comedically. It forced all the humor into one character...and often times he came off as obnoxious.

I think you guys are at the wrong forum...?! :-?

True, but the OT wanted it set to a way where the episodes don't have to played in a certain order and you can miss a few episodes without missing anything important. Aside from a few eps that introduced a character or so, most of the season 3 eps could be rerunned in random order... and they pretty much were.

This show kinda wants to be that episodic with filler after filler and people forgetting important things like Karai being Miwa and April's father being missing until the plot calls for it again. But then you throw in series-altering events like Rahzar, Slash, wether or not Baxter is working for the Foot again etc.

Can't have it both ways. Make it one one-going storyline, or make it episodic. Not this bizzare mixture of both.

That's... pretty much what I said, though. :lol:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

True, but the OT wanted it set to a way where the episodes don't have to played in a certain order and you can miss a few episodes without missing anything important. Aside from a few eps that introduced a character or so, most of the season 3 eps could be rerunned in random order... and they pretty much were.

This show kinda wants to be that episodic with filler after filler and people forgetting important things like Karai being Miwa and April's father being missing until the plot calls for it again. But then you throw in series-altering events like Rahzar, Slash, wether or not Baxter is working for the Foot again etc.

Can't have it both ways. Make it one one-going storyline, or make it episodic. Not this bizzare mixture of both.

I think this may be another problem I have with this cartoon.

[n-zero]

Virtually all of us are long-time fans and we got used to the changes from the first episode.

The one thing you learn quickly as a Ninja Turtles fan is that every incarnation of the turtles series is going to be radically different. The first two universes, Mirage and Fred Wolf, couldn't be any more different. As long as the core of the characters remains true and the quality of the storylines is top-notch, changes are just part of the territory.

[Shiro Kame]

I think this may be another problem I have with this cartoon.

Me too. When it was revealed that the Kraang were after April, I was disappointed that the next episode completely ignored this and no one had the brains to have April hide until Karai's failed kidnapping attempt.

[Luckyday]

Which shows how weak the 4Kids show was comedically. It forced all the humor into one character...and often times he came off as obnoxious.

If they don't want comedy in a series then don't put comedy in it. They could make Mikey more like his mirage counterpart since that was what they were going for originally, but instead they shoehorn it in and it ended up breaking the flow of the show.

[DarkLightDragon]

Gotta entertain the kiddies somehow.

[Luckyday]

You make a show for children without comedy. Batman: The animated series?

[beavercartoon]

Batman: The Animated Series had comedic moments. There's the scene in "Almost Got 'Im" where the villains all recount their brilliant Death Traps to get rid of Bruce Wayne, each story getting more elaborate, and then Killer Croc brags about how he threw a rock at Batman (it was a big rock...) It's not really Killer Croc who says that, it's Batman in disguise. Everybody falls for it though because it sounds just like the kind of plan Killer Croc would come up with. A few episodes later, the real Killer Croc actually DOES throw a rock at Batman. He misses.Actually, Killer Croc contributed to several funny moments. I don't care what the Joker thinks, I wanted to hear more of the "Batman is really a robot" theory.

There's also the XMas episode where the Joker escapes Arkham using a robot shaped like a Christmas tree and singing "Jingle Bells, Batman Smells." Or Harley crying out "Puddin!" after the Joker is blown up, only for Bats to tell her "he probly is." Or the funny and sweet moment where Harvey Bullock has to act as a Mall Santa and a little girl wants Santa to bring her Daddy home... from prison.

Just because a show has a reputation for being serious or gritty or more mature doesn't mean it's completely devoid of humor. Considering one of the B:TAS writers (Paul Dini) wrote some hilarious Tiny Toons episodes (not just BatDuck parodies) it would actually be more surprising if he never included funny dialogue or interesting background gags.

[Jester]

TYSNUL2hrQM

[Electric]

i personally prefer the episodic type over the filler. i like having things take place in an order. filler episodes just arent as exciting to me, as they dont always move any existing plots along. however, if "filler" episodes like shellacne are where they are going, those are fine by me. yeah goofy new unrelated plot, but updated us on the villains and added a twist.

[Jester]

Took me a while to catch your meaning, because episodic and filler are technically the same thing. Episodic shows can be watched in any order and have only basic continuity...so basically filler.

[Electric]

Took me a while to catch your meaning, because episodic and filler are technically the same thing. Episodic shows can be watched in any order and have only basic continuity...so basically filler.

sorry, messed it up. i prefer...i dont know the word for it...plot-moving? episodes as opposed to fillers. episodes that impact arcs and that need to be watched before moving on to another episode

[Cure]

Serial, man.

[Metalwolf]

i personally prefer the episodic type over the filler. i like having things take place in an order. filler episodes just arent as exciting to me, as they dont always move any existing plots along. however, if "filler" episodes like shellacne are where they are going, those are fine by me. yeah goofy new unrelated plot, but updated us on the villains and added a twist.I don't think Shellacne is a true random episode, as it at least has to be placed after the episode that had Baxter's 'funhouse,' and it changed a major character (likely) permanently. I would say that episodes like the Squirrelenoids are true random, if they never show anything that can definitively place them anywhere in a timeline.

[DarkLightDragon]

You make a show for children without comedy. Batman: The animated series?


>Batman with no comedy
>Has a popular villain whose theme is comedy

Coupled with posts with detailed examples above, your statment is false.

[BubblyShell22]

I definitely agree about the plot amnesia sometimes. It does get a little grating such as in season one where April's dad was captured yet in "New Friend, Old Enemy" April was hanging out with the Turtles and never even mentions her dad. In fact, that plot isn't spoken of again by April until "Metalhead." So, yeah, I thought that was odd. And in this season the whole idea of Kirby being a bat wasn't really mentioned that much except by Donnie when he's talking about creating a retro-mutagen and by April in "Target: April O'Neil." I get that they may be doing this so that people can watch episodes without being confused, but at the same time, even if they catch something that may be more of a filler episode, there may be elements mentioned that go back to previous episodes, and they may be confused by it.

So, yeah, I get what everyone's saying about the plot thing. But even so, it's not enough of a nitpick for me to really stop watching the show as I like what they're doing so far.

[DarkLightDragon]

It's not so much as nitpick that will detract people from watching the show again, but just a noticeable problem with how the show seems to organize certain important plot points and when to make them most relevant.

Like someone may have said already, it's like the writers are either unintentionally being inconsistent with plot development or they're trying to do story arcs without making the episodes less stand-alone.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

^^ Which is part of the reason everyone loves Joker? He brightens the mood up to an otherwise "too dark" cartoon.

I never did think that 4Kids forced humor onto Mikey. In Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers yes but those are when the series was losing it's sense of direction. Mikey has always been the lighthearted one who could always fine a quick laugh (April pointed this out in the comics when Mikey was training in April's barn). Some things a continuity will be amplified. And 2k12 Mikey is no different, except out of all the turtles in this incarnation, Mike's character growth has been inconsistent. One episode, he grows as a character, the next episode he is treated as the fool of the group. And while I appreciate all of the turtles having their own unique sense of humor, Mikey's humor does not need to be attributed by his lack of intelligence. To me, his playfulness is more than enough to make him an entertaining character.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, but in 4Kids, it seemed the writers didn't know what to do with Mikey either. He'd learn a lesson and then they'd do an episode just like it where it seemed like he never learned anything at all. Plus, he always acted like a conceited jerk after his BN win. I'll take 2012 Mikey over 2K3 Mikey any day.

And, DarkLightDragon, I agree with you on the points you've made. They try to cram in some good plot and then they ignore certain points for a while until they suddenly remember to bring it up again. Even in the filler episodes, I'd love to see some mention of certain things like the whole Miwa thing or more about April's dad. Ah, well, we take what we can get I guess.

[BabyTurtles]

IDK.....the whole forgetting stuff isn't bothering me....maybe I just don't notice it?

and Leo not bringing up Miwa....well it's not like he forgot..it's just that he's keeping it too himself I thought.

the only time when I hate inconsistency is when it ruins a character's development. like something they learned...and then they do it again....and again...

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Yes, but in 4Kids, it seemed the writers didn't know what to do with Mikey either. He'd learn a lesson and then they'd do an episode just like it where it seemed like he never learned anything at all.

And you're saying 2k12 Mikey doesn't suffer from the same problem?

[Coola Yagami]

And you're saying 2k12 Mikey doesn't suffer from the same problem?

More like everybody else. Mikey has shown his usefulness time and again, and even saved the day when it was completely left up to him.... yet everyone keeps treating him as if he's useless and good for nothing. It's like they forget all the times he helps out.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Which is something I think that needs to be worked on. Mikey's never been the sharpest knife of the tool but it has never been this blatantly portrayed before. It's rather insulting when Nick compared his intelligence to Patrick Star in one of their commercials.

[DarkLightDragon]

Oh yeah, I remember that from last year.

Then they had to say it was a tie. I may not be the biggest fan of 2012 Mikey (then again, I somehow tolerated 2k3 Mikey as he never bothered me, so excuse my unpopular opinions) but even I felt that was tad contrived for them to do.

[BubblyShell22]

And you're saying 2k12 Mikey doesn't suffer from the same problem?

Not as badly as 2K3 Mikey. 2K12 Mikey isn't a conceited jerk, and while he may not learn lessons, the others suffer from that, too, but I chalk it up to the fact that they're younger in this version. In 2K3 they acted older than fifteen, so that's sort of why it bothered me that Mikey had that problem and that he constantly rubbed his win in their faces without even worrying about what the hell they all went through while there. It just irked me.

2K12 Mikey has shown how useful he is and how compassionate he is with others. That's one of the things I like about him.

[Jester]

"The heart is a soft muscle, man. A soft muscle...squish."

[BabyTurtles]

Which is something I think that needs to be worked on. Mikey's never been the sharpest knife of the tool but it has never been this blatantly portrayed before. It's rather insulting when Nick compared his intelligence to Patrick Star in one of their commercials.

Mikey doesn't have to be smart :3 I don't even mind that he's a little ignorant and doesn't get things as quick. His mind isn't that filled with knowledge but it's filled with tons of imagination! (rapping mummies, cheese demons, cowboy adventures lolz)

as long as he's competent then I'm cool with it. and Nick Mikey has been competent....and has shown to be pretty sensible even if everyone brushes him off.

now...if only if the turtles would just listen to him a little more....


also....Nick should NOT have compared Mikey to Patrick...I mean that's just insulting.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

2K12 Mikey has shown how useful he is and how compassionate he is with others. That's one of the things I like about him.


I haven't really seen him show that much compassion to some folks, like Raph.


When Raph was poisoned, all Mikey could say was "You ate my pizza, you liar." Or when Raph had an alien inside his stomach, Mikey's 'show of compassion' to him was scaring him to death by having a 'chainsaw-like' saw and threatening to cut him open. Or Raph being scared in the 'cockroach episode', Mikey showed anything but compassion.

I'm not saying Raph is an angel, not by a long shot. But at least with Raph, I've seen him show compassion to Mikey. Like Raph hugging Mikey when the character woke up (after being knocked out unconscious in an episode of the first season). Or sequences in 'Slash and Destroy." Or Raph telling him that he was a good guy, after the Bradford character turned on him.

Never really heard Mikey ever say a nice thing about Raph, come to think of it. But I've heard Raph say a couple nice things about Mikey.

Maybe the only brief time I saw something like that was when Raph was electrocuted and Mikey checked on him.

[BabyTurtles]

I haven't really seen him show that much compassion to some folks, like Raph.


When Raph was poisoned, all Mikey could say was "You ate my pizza, you liar." Or when Raph had an alien inside his stomach, Mikey's 'show of compassion' to him was scaring him to death by having a 'chainsaw-like' saw and threatening to cut him open. Or Raph being scared in the 'cockroach episode', Mikey showed anything but compassion.

I'm not saying Raph is an angel, not by a long shot. But at least with Raph, I've seen him show compassion to Mikey. Like Raph hugging Mikey when the character woke up (after being knocked out unconscious in an episode of the first season). Or sequences in 'Slash and Destroy." Or Raph telling him that he was a good guy, after the Bradford character turned on him.

Never really heard Mikey ever say a nice thing about Raph, come to think of it. But I've heard Raph say a couple nice things about Mikey.

Maybe the only brief time I saw something like that was when Raph was electrocuted and Mikey checked on him.

OF COURSE Raph has to say all those nice things....cause usually he says something harsh beforehand and has to make-up for it. :D


like when........ he was nice to him after the Bradford thing cause he was a jerk before that. Telling Mikey that no one would ever understand him was harsh man. Also....... all the loving times he has smacked Mikey.

shoot, I'd say Mikey's true compassion shows when he just brushes off everything Raph says or does to him XD

either way we all know Raph loves his brothers, but what about other people?

Mikey's shown to be both lovable and sympathetic to people that aren't his brothers

greatest example is Leatherhead~

but Mikey's also been caring to his brothers too~ like when he offered to give Leo his comic book so he wouldn't be mad. or when he hugged Leo when he came back after he left the team in Raph's hands. or even giving Raph that little lecture about being more sympathetic to Donnie's feelings for April. And of course he was totally focused on keeping Raph safe when he was poisoned.

[Technogeek29]

Both shows are a bit of a rollercoaster with Mikey if you ask me.

[BabyTurtles]

Both shows are a bit of a rollercoaster with Mikey if you ask me.

ya I kinda agree.....I love Nick Mikey alot more cause even though he can be a little dumb sometimes he makes up for being kickbutt and adorable. :D

anyway~ I think the writers can be inconsistent with him....one moment he's getting something...then in another episode he doesn't understand something else. it's kinda weird.

(I think he's getting better this season though :3)

they need to give some of Donnie's development time to Mikey XD

[Technogeek29]

ya I kinda agree.....I love Nick Mikey alot more cause even though he can be a little dumb sometimes he makes up for being kickbutt and adorable. :D

anyway~ I think the writers can be inconsistent with him....one moment he's getting something...then in another episode he doesn't understand something else. it's kinda weird.

(I think he's getting better this season though :3)

they need to give some of Donnie's development time to Mikey XD

Yeah unless the episode is Mikey centric 2k3 Mike can really grate on your nerves, although its the other Turtles who I have a problem with when it comes Nick Mikey centric episodes. I'm afraid how dumb he might've been if it wasn't for Ciro cutting out unecessary dumb lines.

And yeah Don is my favorite Turtle but I want to see Splinter or Casey centric episodes now. I mention Raph but Slash n' Burn made up for it.

[BabyTurtles]

Yeah unless the episode is Mikey centric 2k3 Mike can really grate on your nerves, although its the other Turtles who I have a problem with when it comes Nick Mikey centric episodes. I'm afraid how dumb he might've been if it wasn't for Ciro cutting out unecessary dumb lines.

And yeah Don is my favorite Turtle but I want to see Splinter or Casey centric episodes now. I mention Raph but Slash n' Burn made up for it.

it takes alot to annoy me XD Mikey even in 2003 was my fav turtle.

IDK I guess I like upbeat characters or something. but once he beat the battle nexus he was so bad! lol XD bragging left and right even though he didn't technically win fair in square, though he did beat Raph fairly. (poor Raph lol)

Nick Mikey isn't braggy UNLESS he has to tell off his brothers how he was able to do something and they didn't believe him.

(also thank you Ciro for cutting out most of Mikey's dumb lines and trying to get him smarter!! *_* you're my hero!)

[LeotheLateBloomer]

2k3 Mike is indeed boastful and has an ego problem but to say he is a conceited jerk is very untrue. Mike is always looking for ways to make people laugh. Plus his hyperactive nature and easygoing personality has always made him one of the most positive of the turtles. Mike knows when to take things seriously and never looks for a fight. And this version has also showed compassion for the likes of characters such as Leatherhead. And while he has his moments of forcing his sense of humor out or annoying his brothers, I never did feel that it was otherwise intrusive to the character for anyone to enjoy. In other words, when Mike does praise himself, it's all in good humor.

For 2k12 Mike, they downplay him as the unreliable and ignorant one of the group and I feel that they are doing it all for the sake of making people laugh of which for what the show's tone is going for, is unnecessary. Mike in this version has some unique qualities and has proven himself as an effective fighter but more often than not, they are usually overshadowed by his incompetence and impulsiveness. And one cannot use the arguments, "they are younger" or "they are teenagers" because the turtles are still the same age as all of the other interpretations. And as far as Mikey being adorable, it's not about being cute, it's about having the qualities that are not detrimental to the character and what he helps contribute to the turtles such as his unique athleticism.

[BabyTurtles]

For 2k12 Mike, they downplay him as the unreliable and ignorant one of the group and I feel that they are doing it all for the sake of making people laugh of which for what the show's tone is going for, is unnecessary. Mike in this version has some unique qualities and has proven himself as an effective fighter but more often than not, they are usually overshadowed by his incompetence and impulsiveness. And one cannot use the arguments, "they are younger" or "they are teenagers" because the turtles are still the same age as all of the other interpretations. And as far as Mikey being adorable, it's not about being cute, it's about having the qualities that are not detrimental to the character and what he helps contribute to the turtles such as his unique athleticism.

good thing he does both :D

anyway Mikey isn't incompetent in Nick. His brothers treat him as if he is, but he isn't. He's shown a bunch of times to help the team and has saved the day more than once with his creative thinking.

1) saved them in Parasitica
2) saved them in Squirrelanoids
3) saved them from Bradford bo--I mean Chrome dome

Mikey is very immature....but hasn't he always been? IDK...it's nothing knew. That quality about him doesn't hurt his character it just adds to his personality.

Mikey seriously needs an episode that focuses on something other than his brothers being proved wrong about him being only a goofball.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Maybe, just once, they could show some of his OTHER talents for a change? That would go a long way to helping his character development.

[BabyTurtles]

Maybe, just once, they could show some of his OTHER talents for a change? That would go a long way to helping his character development.

that'd be nice. Maybe Ice cream kitty episode? or Pizzaface episode?

why does Mikey get all the weird episodes........

[MiBs]

And one cannot use the arguments, "they are younger" or "they are teenagers" because the turtles are still the same age as all of the other interpretations

I think it's a very valid argument. For me it seems like the writers is actually making an effort of making them seem younger - and the way they are animated just emphasize that IMO. We see them turning 15 and going topside for the very first time in ep. 1. Leo is given the role as leader, and both he and the others have to ajust to that.
I see that as an explanation of why they don't learn their lessons right away - they have to make mistakes (and maybe making them over and over) for them to truly learn. I don't mind that they are younger this time - but I can understand why some have problems with it.

As far as the Mikey debate. I wasn't a big fan of the 2k3 version, for the same reasons as others has pointed out (especially the Battle Nexus Tournament)

2012 Mikey is a goofball, but I think it's gotten a lot better i Season 2. And I think his sillyness is actually a lot funnier than in the 2K3, and Mikey in general is much more likeable - and more competent. I give a lot of the credit to Greg Cipes way of
portraying him

[Technogeek29]

2k3 Mike is indeed boastful and has an ego problem but to say he is a conceited jerk is very untrue. Mike is always looking for ways to make people laugh. Plus his hyperactive nature and easygoing personality has always made him one of the most positive of the turtles. Mike knows when to take things seriously and never looks for a fight. And this version has also showed compassion for the likes of characters such as Leatherhead. And while he has his moments of forcing his sense of humor out or annoying his brothers, I never did feel that it was otherwise intrusive to the character for anyone to enjoy. In other words, when Mike does praise himself, it's all in good humor.

For 2k12 Mike, they downplay him as the unreliable and ignorant one of the group and I feel that they are doing it all for the sake of making people laugh of which for what the show's tone is going for, is unnecessary. Mike in this version has some unique qualities and has proven himself as an effective fighter but more often than not, they are usually overshadowed by his incompetence and impulsiveness. And one cannot use the arguments, "they are younger" or "they are teenagers" because the turtles are still the same age as all of the other interpretations. And as far as Mikey being adorable, it's not about being cute, it's about having the qualities that are not detrimental to the character and what he helps contribute to the turtles such as his unique athleticism.

Everyone always forgets the notes from the underground guy. When after they froze him Mikey was the first one to feel bad for him. just looked for the 2k3 mikey thread if you want my full opinion on him.

[sdp]

This show is just so unoffensive, it does nothing particularly wrong but it does nothing different enough to set itself apart. No changing the origin of a few characters isn't enough. The show is just kind of there. The OT had the comedy, 2k3 had the dark tone. There's just nothing special about this show, its rather generic.

[BabyTurtles]

This show is just so unoffensive, it does nothing particularly wrong but it does nothing different enough to set itself apart. No changing the origin of a few characters isn't enough. The show is just kind of there. The OT had the comedy, 2k3 had the dark tone. There's just nothing special about this show, its rather generic.

I have to disagree....this show being a mix between the OT's fun and the 2k3's dark tone does make it different.

I know this has been said to death....but the turtles actually acting like teens is something new.

and the brotherly love is everywhere in this version.

I can't speak for the OT cause...well I haven't watched THAT many episodes XD

but in the 2k3 they acted more like college buddies than brothers

in the Nick show, they get on each others nerves all the time! They prank each other...they sometimes don't respect each other, but they also care about each other so much and have fun together.

IDK...I think that's something new.....it shouldn't be new seeing as thats what the show is supposed to be about....but Nick took the time to portray them like real brothers and I like that :)

(I've been calling out 2k3 alot...but I want everyone to know that I love that show so much! too :3 every show has it's flaws though)

[Electric]

I have to disagree....this show being a mix between the OT's fun and the 2k3's dark tone does make it different.

I know this has been said to death....but the turtles actually acting like teens is something new.

and the brotherly love is everywhere in this version.

I can't speak for the OT cause...well I haven't watched THAT many episodes XD

but in the 2k3 they acted more like college buddies than brothers

in the Nick show, they get on each others nerves all the time! They prank each other...they sometimes don't respect each other, but they also care about each other so much and have fun together.

IDK...I think that's something new.....it shouldn't be new seeing as thats what the show is supposed to be about....but Nick took the time to portray them like real brothers and I like that :)

(I've been calling out 2k3 alot...but I want everyone to know that I love that show so much! too :3 every show has it's flaws though)

exactly what i was about to say.

no its not dark. no its not goofy. it takes elements of both and puts them into a show that is arguably the most enjoyable for the largest range of fans. thats what tmnt is for most, goofy, or serious so this one combined them

and the brotherly interaction, as you stated, along with them acting like actual teens, does set it apart, making them true to the name "teenage" mutant ninja turtles. they look, in my opinion sound, and act like teenagers, and that is something i dont think any other incarnation has hit

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, exactly. And I love the fact that they actually show affection to each other by hugging each other, something 2K3 refused to do, such as when Leo returned from Japan, and Don was happy to see him and shook his hand. Really, Don? You couldn't have just hugged your brother? But in this show, they're not afraid to show that dynamic, and I love it to death. This show is a mix of both serious and lighthearted humor, and I love that as well.

[BabyTurtles]

Yes, exactly. And I love the fact that they actually show affection to each other by hugging each other, something 2K3 refused to do, such as when Leo returned from Japan, and Don was happy to see him and shook his hand. Really, Don? You couldn't have just hugged your brother? But in this show, they're not afraid to show that dynamic, and I love it to death. This show is a mix of both serious and lighthearted humor, and I love that as well.

I know right you would never see Leo and Raph hug for no reason 2k3

but here they are bro hugging

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/194/e/b/leonardo_hugged_raphael_______by_chrystalthehedgeh og-d6dd65y.jpg

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, they DID hug in the 2K3 show- I forget which episode it was, but there was a scene where they were separated, and when Donnie finally finds Raph and Mikey, they all had a group hug. I think there were a couple of other times, too, but I can't recall off-hand.

[BabyTurtles]

Actually, they DID hug in the 2K3 show- I forget which episode it was, but there was a scene where they were separated, and when Donnie finally finds Raph and Mikey, they all had a group hug. I think there were a couple of other times, too, but I can't recall off-hand.

>:U but is it frequent!?

[Technogeek29]

>:U but is it frequent!?

Mostly to Splinter

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I wouldn't call it frequent, but seriously, how often do you ever see brothers hug in RL? It's not exactly "manly", and most siblings grow up not being overly demonstrative of affection in a "mushy" way like hugging. That's more of a sisters kind of thing. Usually, it's more rough-housing, goofing off, and teasing each other between bros. That's how most siblings USUALLY show their affection- and the 2K3 TMNT did PLENTY of that!

[Electric]

It doesn't matter how manly you are, if you lose your brother, then get him back, you hug him, especially if you're as close as they are. And even things like Leo putting his arm around Donnie in mousers attack, just a brotherly thing to do, that I feel like other series missed

[Bossa Nova]

>:U but is it frequent!?

It might not be frequent and at times I DO wish they had showed more appropriate physical affection, but I have a difficult time at all saying the 2k12 turtles act more like "real" brothers than the 2k3 turtles. Honestly, right off the bat in 2k3 I could feel that sibling vibe between the turtles-they joked around and teased each other, but there was always an underlying air of affection to it. In 2k12, for many of the turtles' pranks and comments they all come off at times as genuinely mean-spirited and like how a bunch of guy buddies might interact, rather than brothers whose lives depend on one another. Of course 2k12 does have some awesome episodes, such as Slash and Destroy, here I DO feel that real brotherly bond, but just because the 2k12 turtles might physically interact a bit more, I don't really see that as an automatic sign of brotherly relationships. How they speak to each other and generally show how they view each other plays a big role too.

[BabyTurtles]

It might not be frequent and at times I DO wish they had showed more appropriate physical affection, but I have a difficult time at all saying the 2k12 turtles act more like "real" brothers than the 2k3 turtles. Honestly, right off the bat in 2k3 I could feel that sibling vibe between the turtles-they joked around and teased each other, but there was always an underlying air of affection to it. In 2k12, for many of the turtles' pranks and comments they all come off at times as genuinely mean-spirited and like how a bunch of guy buddies might interact, rather than brothers whose lives depend on one another. Of course 2k12 does have some awesome episodes, such as Slash and Destroy, here I DO feel that real brotherly bond, but just because the 2k12 turtles might physically interact a bit more, I don't really see that as an automatic sign of brotherly relationships. How they speak to each other and generally show how they view each other plays a big role too.

thats how siblings are though, they tease cause it's fun.

me and my sister get on each others nerves ALL the time. (at least twice a day) You are meaner to your family than you are your friends, cause you are more comfortable around family.

plus they all have a different relationships

you don't see Donnie and Leo yelling at each other every second, or Mikey and Leo. it's mostly Raph-->every turtle... that starts the fights and quips

and Mikey being an annoying younger bro....and Leo being that bossy older brother NO ONE wants to listen too. (I know that too well.....)

so yea...I disagree....maybe it's different depending on the family....but seeing as these brothers have trained together and lived in a sewer together for 15 years....I'm surprised they haven't killed each other yet.

also physical interaction does help show how close you are to that person (it just means they are comfortable around each other)....I don't like hugging my friends that much, but I hug my sister a lot...even if she does drive me crazy.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Guys, I think we should be posting on why some other long-time fans may have some problems with this show than what we have. Like what aspects about it may turn them off.

[Metalwolf]

Guys, I think we should be posting on why some other long-time fans may have some problems with this show than what we have. Like what aspects about it may turn them off.That would be hard to do, since that would be only speculation. Unless you know of another active TMNT site that you could ask that question :)

[BabyTurtles]

That would be hard to do, since that would be only speculation. Unless you know of another active TMNT site that you could ask that question :)

well I know my friend doesn't like the show because

1) she hates the CGI
2) Donnie's gap
3) Donnie's crush on April

....Donnie is her favorite character XD and when you do something to a character that she doesn't like, she will NOT budge lol

that being said her husband likes it....so she's kinda made to watch it anyway lol

[LeotheLateBloomer]

That would be hard to do, since that would be only speculation. Unless you know of another active TMNT site that you could ask that question :)

No but we won't speculate what 87-only fans hate about it since they hardly count.;)

[Gwydion]

Not sure why '87 only fans hardly count as my sis to this day loves only that version (with the possible exception of the live action movies - I don't know that she's seen them in ages), but I can tell you why she doesn't care for/can't get into the Nick version. Admittedly, though, most of the reasons have already been covered, if not all of them.

While she (and most other folks I know who at least admit to having watched the OT) doesn't really care for the CG animation, that was something she was able to look past once she saw a few episodes. She also wasn't too thrilled with April being de-aged, but again, she was willing to give it a shot anyway.

However her biggest complaint is with the Turtles themselves. She has had the unfortunate luck of seeing the episodes in which the Turtles are genuinely unlikable in parts, like The Pulverizer Returns. Seeing how down right mean they all were at the end was a huge turn off for her, and I can't blame her, honestly. She also feels Mikey is too "dumb", and he has always been her favorite, so that didn't help matters.

She also feels it's just really violent. She's also seen both Karai's Vendetta and Slash and Destroy which had two of the most violent fights in the series. Now combine that with Tim's mutation scene and the most mean spirited Space Heroes segment. Personally I don't know that she'd care as much if the show wasn't aimed at kids and she wasn't a mother of young children, but it is what it is.

[BabyTurtles]

Not sure why '87 only fans hardly count as my sis to this day loves only that version (with the possible exception of the live action movies - I don't know that she's seen them in ages), but I can tell you why she doesn't care for/can't get into the Nick version. Admittedly, though, most of the reasons have already been covered, if not all of them.

While she (and most other folks I know who at least admit to having watched the OT) doesn't really care for the CG animation, that was something she was able to look past once she saw a few episodes. She also wasn't too thrilled with April being de-aged, but again, she was willing to give it a shot anyway.

However her biggest complaint is with the Turtles themselves. She has had the unfortunate luck of seeing the episodes in which the Turtles are genuinely unlikable in parts, like The Pulverizer Returns. Seeing how down right mean they all were at the end was a huge turn off for her, and I can't blame her, honestly. She also feels Mikey is too "dumb", and he has always been her favorite, so that didn't help matters.

She also feels it's just really violent. She's also seen both Karai's Vendetta and Slash and Destroy which had two of the most violent fights in the series. Now combine that with Tim's mutation scene and the most mean spirited Space Heroes segment. Personally I don't know that she'd care as much if the show wasn't aimed at kids and she wasn't a mother of young children, but it is what it is.

maybe you should let her watch "It came from the depths" XD that episode had alot of good Mikey moments....and it wasn't too violent!

[CyberCubed]

Not sure why '87 only fans hardly count as my sis to this day loves only that version (with the possible exception of the live action movies - I don't know that she's seen them in ages), but I can tell you why she doesn't care for/can't get into the Nick version. Admittedly, though, most of the reasons have already been covered, if not all of them.

While she (and most other folks I know who at least admit to having watched the OT) doesn't really care for the CG animation, that was something she was able to look past once she saw a few episodes. She also wasn't too thrilled with April being de-aged, but again, she was willing to give it a shot anyway.

However her biggest complaint is with the Turtles themselves. She has had the unfortunate luck of seeing the episodes in which the Turtles are genuinely unlikable in parts, like The Pulverizer Returns. Seeing how down right mean they all were at the end was a huge turn off for her, and I can't blame her, honestly. She also feels Mikey is too "dumb", and he has always been her favorite, so that didn't help matters.

She also feels it's just really violent. She's also seen both Karai's Vendetta and Slash and Destroy which had two of the most violent fights in the series. Now combine that with Tim's mutation scene and the most mean spirited Space Heroes segment. Personally I don't know that she'd care as much if the show wasn't aimed at kids and she wasn't a mother of young children, but it is what it is.

Why don't you show her the series in order? Obviously watching random episodes out of context you're going to be confused as to what's going on.

The series is meant to be watched in order.

[Gwydion]

Well, first off, she only gets whatever episodes are available On Demand, and she lives too far away for her to watch them with me. Secondly, it's not that she's confused by what's going on, it's the characters. If you don't like the characters, who cares what's going on in the story? This is my problem with the 2003 version - thought the story was interesting but didn't like the way my favorite characters were portrayed so I eventually gave up.

But even beyond that, I'm pretty sure Slash and Destroy's level of violence assured she won't be watching it around her kids anymore, and she is ALWAYS around her kids, lol. Do I think there are episodes she would like? Absolutely! I think It Came From the Depths would be right up her alley, actually. But I doubt she'll give it another shot at least until her boys are older. In the meantime, she's trying to get them hooked on the OT (which the oldest really enjoys, apparently), so maybe in a few years I'll try to get them (and her) hooked on the Nick version, too.

[CyberCubed]

Well, first off, she only gets whatever episodes are available On Demand, and she lives too far away for her to watch them with me. Secondly, it's not that she's confused by what's going on, it's the characters. If you don't like the characters, who cares what's going on in the story? This is my problem with the 2003 version - thought the story was interesting but didn't like the way my favorite characters were portrayed so I eventually gave up.

Oh, I assumed she had the DVDs. Since all of the first season is out on DVD it would be pretty easy to watch through all of that at least.

But even beyond that, I'm pretty sure Slash and Destroy's level of violence assured she won't be watching it around her kids anymore, and she is ALWAYS around her kids, lol. Do I think there are episodes she would like? Absolutely! I think It Came From the Depths would be right up her alley, actually. But I doubt she'll give it another shot at least until her boys are older. In the meantime, she's trying to get them hooked on the OT (which the oldest really enjoys, apparently), so maybe in a few years I'll try to get them (and her) hooked on the Nick version, too.

You know I'm kinda surprised people find this show violent. The shows primary target audience is 7-8 year old kids. It's like the same as Batman: TAS was, it was aimed at kids but sophisticated enough for adults to enjoy it.

And really the violence isn't any worse than standard Disney movie violence.

[BabyTurtles]

You know I'm kinda surprised people find this show violent. The shows primary target audience is 7-8 year old kids. It's like the same as Batman: TAS was, it was aimed at kids but sophisticated enough for adults to enjoy it.

And really the violence isn't any worse than standard Disney movie violence.

Ciro did admit that making the turtles adorable helps them get away with more violence XD

[Gwydion]

Oh I'm not saying it's too violent for it's intended audience, but her oldest boy is 2 and a half, so he's quite a bit younger than what the Y7 rating is meant for. XD She wasn't familiar with the 2003 cartoon at all (or the comics, for that matter), so she was expecting something more goofy like the OT when she first let him watch it.

[Bossa Nova]

thats how siblings are though, they tease cause it's fun.

me and my sister get on each others nerves ALL the time. (at least twice a day) You are meaner to your family than you are your friends, cause you are more comfortable around family.

plus they all have a different relationships

you don't see Donnie and Leo yelling at each other every second, or Mikey and Leo. it's mostly Raph-->every turtle... that starts the fights and quips

and Mikey being an annoying younger bro....and Leo being that bossy older brother NO ONE wants to listen too. (I know that too well.....)

so yea...I disagree....maybe it's different depending on the family....but seeing as these brothers have trained together and lived in a sewer together for 15 years....I'm surprised they haven't killed each other yet.

also physical interaction does help show how close you are to that person (it just means they are comfortable around each other)....I don't like hugging my friends that much, but I hug my sister a lot...even if she does drive me crazy.

Oh trust me, I understand. I fight and argue and tease my siblings ALL the time! But I feel that the way its presents in 2k12 comes off as extremely brutal. The turtles still argued and teased each other in 2k3, plenty of times! But it was done in such a way that I could sense they beneath all their bickering they still cared about each other. On the other hand, when the 2k12 turtles fight each other, I genuinely believe that one of them could just walk off and leave his family forever and the others would hardly even care. It just doesn't have that underlying tone of family bonding that I would like to see, and that's what bothers me.

[BabyTurtles]

Oh trust me, I understand. I fight and argue and tease my siblings ALL the time! But I feel that the way its presents in 2k12 comes off as extremely brutal. The turtles still argued and teased each other in 2k3, plenty of times! But it was done in such a way that I could sense they beneath all their bickering they still cared about each other. On the other hand, when the 2k12 turtles fight each other, I genuinely believe that one of them could just walk off and leave his family forever and the others would hardly even care. It just doesn't have that underlying tone of family bonding that I would like to see, and that's what bothers me.

I guess agree to disagree then :) I just don't see it that way.

I mean look at these moments *_*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kLQ51awho

[bridgegrn]

Oh trust me, I understand. I fight and argue and tease my siblings ALL the time! But I feel that the way its presents in 2k12 comes off as extremely brutal. The turtles still argued and teased each other in 2k3, plenty of times! But it was done in such a way that I could sense they beneath all their bickering they still cared about each other. On the other hand, when the 2k12 turtles fight each other, I genuinely believe that one of them could just walk off and leave his family forever and the others would hardly even care. It just doesn't have that underlying tone of family bonding that I would like to see, and that's what bothers me.

Really? The 4 of them seem like they're practically glued at the hip lol. They actually seem to have the most natural chemistry to me. They don't shower each other with I love yous but hey, they are 15.

[BubblyShell22]

I also have to disagree, BN. Sure, they may come off as harsh at times, but they really do care for each other such as when Raph forgives Leo and says he's sorry in "New Girl in Town" or when Raph hugs Leo and says he's glad to have him back in "Follow the Leader." Sure, they may not show affection all of the time, but the bond is there, and you can tell they really do care for each other.

[Bossa Nova]

I guess I should agree that only Raph and Leo seem to really give a crap about each other. The only time Raph ever extends any display of genuine concern is when Mikey is pretty much near death (though Slash and Destroy was a very nice exception and I really felt a brotherly bond for ALL the turtles that I really quite enjoyed). It's the little things, like when Don just up and left his bros because April was calling him (despite how she's been treating him for who knows how long), or that the turtles don't seem to REALLY care when another one of them is upset, such as at the end of the Metalhead episode when none of the turtles gave two flips about Don and why he was feeling so subpar in his combat capabilities (hell, none of them even seemed to much care that he wasn't even coming with them to fight in the first place), or how Don didn't seem to give a rat's butt that Leo very well could have been dead after sacrificing himself in last seasons finale (he only showed concern in the final five seconds before Leo showed back up again and only because Raph started talking), or the overall treatment of Mikey when he really could have died in the Shellacne episode. It all just doesn't sit right with me. There's a way to show brotherly teasing and boys being boys, I expect roughhousing and pranks, I don't expect blatant displays of disdain or plain uncaring behavior.

[BubblyShell22]

But they did show anger when Don left them. Raph even said, "Did he just ditch us?" They weren't happy at all that Don wasn't there and even called him out on it when Leo said, "Way to ditch us, dude."

But, hey, to each their own. I really don't mind how they act and I do see the love there even if it's not shown all of the time.

[Gwydion]

I was curious about which scenes in particular you were referring to earlier, Bossa Nova, so I'm glad you pointed some out. I can agree that there are times when the Turtles seem to lack the proper ability to care, and this is something that actually really bothers me, but it's always seemed to be more toward others (like Donnie's response to April having to live in the sewer or Mikey telling April about her dad in the season opener). It's also rare enough that I try to just look past it, though admittedly I have no desire to watch certain episodes again because of it.

As for how the Turtles act to each other, I think a lot of little things get missed as far as their interactions go. For example, pretty much the one thing I heard about constantly while season 1 was airing was how mean Raph was to Mikey. This kind of shocked me as I just didn't see it. New Friend, Old Enemy is a really early example of Raph showing he cares about him, and it's not just because he's in trouble either. I mean, if nothing else, Raph allows Mikey to go on and on about Bradford for 3 hours - obviously by the end of that someone like Raph is going to get fed up, but just think about how long he lasted, and Leo and Donnie weren't even paying attention, lol. It's just one, quick comment, though, and we only see the end result, so I think people would see that and go "oh look, Raph's just picking on Mikey again".

Personally I think there are a fair amount of little scenes like that between all the brothers - they just seem to get overlooked because they aren't as loud and in your face as the negative ones. You mentioned the Shellacne episode and how everyone seemed to care so little. What about how afraid Donnie sounded after testing Mikey, knowing that he'd used his failed batch of retro mutagen ("It's a terrible 'oh no'.")? Or how freaked out Leo got? Or the fact that Raph was so upset they lost the centrifuge that he was just pacing and punching things because he didn't know what else to do? I think at first they didn't seem concerned, but I figured it was just because they didn't realize it was actually serious - I'd make fun of my brother if he suddenly showed up covered in weird bumps we all thought were harmless. But once they knew it was serious I thought they acted appropriately (from what I can remember).

Everyone is going to interpret scenes differently, and different characters' behavior will stand out to different people (I, for one, notice Raph the most). I guess I say this not to say "You're wrong, here's how it really is" but more "This is how I see things". Was Donnie ditching the other Turtles in T:AO not cool? Yeah, but it's not like he didn't have any good reasons whatsoever - April is far less experienced then the Turtles and up against Karai and a bunch of Foot bots. Personally I was more upset by the fact that April suddenly went "Oops, looks like I'm in trouble, guess I should apologize to Donnie so he'll save me." then the fact that Donnie was willing to do so. I just find it interesting how people can view one scene so differently.

(...my apologies for rambling. I have a tendency to do that...)

[snake]

I think that it shows that the turtles are brothers more often in this series. Way more then 2k3. Plus, brothers often argue.

[Walkabout]

Well I got the turtle bug via the FW show and playmates toys back in 89, and I just bought Nick's season 1 on DVD (having only seen a few eps on free to air)...I've only just seen them face Shredder and the whole Xever/Bradford mutations and I'm sold on this being the best TMNT show yet.

The early FW episodes will always have that special place, and the 00's show was great but this new show is absolutely brilliant-it tips it's hat to the previous incarnations, does it's own thing...it's genuinely funny, the action kicks shell and I'm seriously impressed.

[tmntpower1988]

I like the plots in the Nick episodes but I still can't get used to the design of the turtles.

[Alongtmnt]

I am watching it with my 3 year old son, he tends to be a bit too playfull from time to time and start hitting people.

I personally like the Nick TMNT alot! i am 30 now so i grew up with the original. But since i have something to enjoy with my kid together i think that is the main reason why i can look pass the differences between the old and the new.

But i do feel the new turtles has a lot more individual charater too them and the story makes more sense. But! my son also watches the older shows and enjoys them! the only show i personnaly will never grow into is the 2003 series, the whole drawing style etc is way too off for me personally.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, that's awesome that you have something you can share with your son. That's always a good thing to see.

[TMNTmousers]

The Don- April crush is the reason for me.