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MikeandRaph87
11-19-2013, 04:49 PM
On occassion I get on kicks where I want to read certai characters. Of late I have had interest in reading Wally West. During the course of his series after I started collecting I only picked up a two parter with Dick Grayson and Grodd and Rouges War six issue storyline. Later on I picked up #200. In the last week I picked up an assorted bag of 11 Flash vol.2 issues and am currently in the process of reading through them. A lot of them are last issues of a storyline with issues scattered from #51 to #236. I was looking for opinions on the volume and overall favorite storylines or characters, creators on the book,etc. So what is your opinion on Flash vol.2? Thanks for contributing.

Leo656
11-19-2013, 10:00 PM
Golden. Wally West's run as The Flash was a ton more interesting than anything Barry ever did. I really like the earliest stuff, the first hundred or so issues, but it's all great, especially the later Geoff Johns stuff.

"The Return Of Barry Allen" storyline from the early '90s is one of the greatest comics stories ever and my personal favorite Flash story. That one gets my highest possible recommendation. I think it ran through issues 75-80 or around there, but I don't have it handy. It's amazing, though.

MikeandRaph87
11-19-2013, 10:05 PM
Ah,that is the one where Ebord Thawne does not travel far enough back and somehow gets delusions that he is Barry,right? I know the twist beforehand. Would that detract from the story itself when reading it?

When does Linda Park enter the series ? Which villian do you like the best?

Leo656
11-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Well, the initial impact may be lessened somewhat... as a kid, I was completely shocked. But it's still fun to re-read it. I try and read it once a year a least. It's different knowing what's coming and seeing it foreshadowed. I love it.

Linda comes in pretty early on. Literally the first 100 issues are pretty much all terrific. Vandal Savage is pretty cool, his arc leading up to issue #50 (and the debut of the "Shiny Suit" for Flash) is neat. But I always had a soft spot for Zoom, either version. I guess I sentimentally prefer the original, but Geoff Johns's version was good, too. They built to it well.

MikeandRaph87
11-20-2013, 06:25 AM
Its strange that DC is making a third Reverse Flash when the whole DCnU started thanks to Thawne causing trouble. Its like he accidently erased himself from exsistence trying to screw with Barry. I can't say which I perfer of the two. Zolomon got really just two stories in the event leading up to #200 and the last two chapters of Rouges War,correct? Not enough time to read his unique villiany. Thawn did a lot of damage but was absent from 1983-2008 and I feel Johns tried to compesnate making him due things with the help of retcons. I guess Reverse Flash is the main foe of Flash? Sometimes its hard to tell since both Legion of Doom members stand tall, Captain Cold and Grodd. Trickster has to be of some importance if he got to be the featured villian in the little known two 90s' films.

As crazy as a concept I have always liked Grodd the best of the Flash villians. The stories are a good blend of a serious threat in a ape with mind control powers and fun.

Leo656
11-20-2013, 08:12 PM
Honestly, what DIDN'T the New 52 f*ck up? Every single thing about it was like DC swatting a fly with a bazooka. You took care of one little nagging problem while creating a bunch of gigantic new ones. :roll: The fact that readership has tapered off to pretty much pre-reboot levels means that by and large it HAS to be considered a failure, more or less. All it did was piss off long-time readers while trading them for a few newer ones, most of whom haven't or won't stick around. What a mess. I hate it.

The DCU from '86 to 2009 was brilliant. As soon as Final Crisis under-performed, BAM, panic button. What a f*cking joke.

Sorry to rant, I just really, REALLY hate almost everything I've read from the reboot. It's not even close to the same universe and characters anymore, except Batman, who's too popular to screw with. :roll: Also, no Wally West Flash means your universe can go f*ck itself, son. :lol:

MikeandRaph87
11-20-2013, 08:50 PM
Honestly, what DIDN'T the New 52 f*ck up? Every single thing about it was like DC swatting a fly with a bazooka. You took care of one little nagging problem while creating a bunch of gigantic new ones. :roll: The fact that readership has tapered off to pretty much pre-reboot levels means that by and large it HAS to be considered a failure, more or less. All it did was piss off long-time readers while trading them for a few newer ones, most of whom haven't or won't stick around. What a mess. I hate it.

The DCU from '86 to 2009 was brilliant. As soon as Final Crisis under-performed, BAM, panic button. What a f*cking joke.

Sorry to rant, I just really, REALLY hate almost everything I've read from the reboot. It's not even close to the same universe and characters anymore, except Batman, who's too popular to screw with. :roll: Also, no Wally West Flash means your universe can go f*ck itself, son. :lol:

I much enjoyed what I was reading before the reboot and I dropped Batman and Detective Comics following that. Yes,I hate the reboot just like you.,but what about the above. Is Reverse Flash considered Flash's main foe or another such as Captain Cold or Grodd? Trickster was important enough to be in the two little known 90s films. Also,who is your favorite Flash foe? Grodd for me.

Leo656
11-20-2013, 09:04 PM
Well, I'd guess thematically Zoom would be... it's hard to get more "opposing" than to be "The Reverse-Flash"; although others would say Captain Cold, since The Flash is perpetually in motion and Cold's gimmick is to freeze things solid. I always preferred Zoom, though. I also prefer the name "Zoom" to "The Reverse-Flash"; it's silly, but a bit more creative. I'm weird.

Based on my favorite Flash story being "Return of Barry Allen", Thawne/Zoom has been my favorite Flash foe, overall. He arguably did more to mess things up for the Flash Family than anyone. A good case could be made for Zoom, Cold or Grodd to be the "main" foe, but I think Zoom has had the biggest overall impact.

MikeandRaph87
11-20-2013, 09:17 PM
Reverse Flash, always sounded better to my ears, but you could argue both sound silly. Anyway, yes Thawne did the most having "killed" Iris and neary killed Barry's second fiancee and forced him into that trial ordeal then to beef him up after a 25 year abcense he killed Barry's mother and brought us to this ridiculous reality called the New 52.

I like the fact there is no definite foe. Its like with Spider-Man having three almost equal great threats in Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, and Venom. Even though Norman has done more the other two have done quite a bit as well. I also like the other two a lot more.

I always wondered where did the concept of a hyper-intellect gorrilla with mind controlling powers come from? I am sure there is some inspiration but Planet of The Apes was about a decade away and I don't believe secret dome cities had been in literature at that point.


Its an odd combo. You like Thawne best as a villian and Wally best as Flash. I perfer my Flash to be Wally West and my Green Lantern to be Hal Jordan so I cannot say much.

Leo656
11-20-2013, 09:29 PM
I think Wally became a genuinely more interesting character through his run than Barry ever got to be. That's probably because the writing quality in the 80s and 90s was miles ahead of what passed for writing in the 60s and 70s. I do like Barry, but Wally's run was all about him earning it and finding his place in the "pantheon" of DC heroes, and I loved it immensely. Even though he's been back a few years now, and I do like him, I still haven't seen the real solid story that totally justifies his resurrection. Especially at Wally's expense.

As a kid I didn't like Hal Jordan much, except (oddly) when he was in Flash stories, where he was like Wally's mentor in a sense and acted as a bridge between Barry's era and Wally's. Otherwise, I preferred Guy Gardner as Green Lantern. I wasn't a huge fan of Hal's character, but after "Green Lantern Rebirth" I've been a big fan. I still kind of prefer Guy, but Hal's got a lot more depth than he used to.

MikeandRaph87
11-21-2013, 01:48 PM
To me Barry always came across as boring and bland. He is just the good ole midwestern guy who lost his wife for awhile and ironically known for being slow and late. He just happened to have strong relatinoships with the likes of Elongated Man, Atom, and Green Lantern and on friendlier terms with Batman than most and a great array of villians. The science fiction got out of hand or floruished depending on view with two villians from the future (25th) and (64th) centuries and a wife from the 30th. Then there is the cosmic treadmill and Gorrilla City. Bland Barry has his surroundings to thanks for his success.

I like the multiverse set up of pre-crisis. Stories were not one epic arc after the other and different sets of characters all activie at the same time in thier prime. The Justice League had the first string and a solid portion of the second string in its roster in the coolest of headquaters not to mention Robin and Batgirl were at Batman's side and on their own without any replacments or too many extra appentages of the bat. Great set of villians and the tone was a good middle ground. Not to mention arguably the best set of creators there may ever be.

So aside from Return of Barry Allen, what stories or issues did you like? I know after Hal went from Green Lantern to Parallax nad Kyle came in the two seem to be good friends. Was it by force because of the Jay and Alan and Barry and Hal relationships and did you feel it ever took away from Dick being his best friend?

Edit:I want to read a story that features The Weather Wizard. I have not really read anything aside from the groupings with The Rouges I only read the mid y0s Detective Comics issue where is alone. Whbat out there is thefre that is a good feature of himl It does not have to be Flash vol.2 but is perferred.

Thanks for your insight,Leo656. Glad to have your insight on something I have sporadic knowlesge on. Anyone else who has appreciation of this volume is also welcomed.

DaVinci
11-22-2013, 10:38 AM
Come on guys, Jay Garrick is where it's at.

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2013, 06:50 PM
Come on guys, Jay Garrick is where it's at.

I like him in the supporting role. He is good as an advisor who can also be a great help in the battlefield. Any more comments on this notable volume?

MikeandRaph87
11-24-2013, 06:19 PM
What happened in the arc called "Hell to Pay" in Flash vol.2#127-#129? I know it has something to do with Underworld Unleashed from a couple of years prior.

DaVinci
11-25-2013, 11:16 AM
Any more comments on this notable volume?

Sorry man, I have a Wally-West-shaped gap in my Flash knowledge. I've seen him on TV a couple times and that's it.

Wish I could be genuinely helpful but, on this topic, 'tis not to be.

MikeandRaph87
12-08-2013, 12:57 PM
If The Rogues were largely absent until about 1997 to the end and the newer villians like Tarpit and Murmur did not show up until 2001 who did Wally face in the first 100 issues or so aside from Abra Kadabra and The Turtle?

Leo656
12-09-2013, 06:14 AM
A lot of the usual. Vandal Savage, Grodd, Dr. Alchemy, Captain Cold, Golden Glider, stuff like that. The first 80 issues or so were almost more character-based stories, kind of like some early Spider-Man, where the books were more like "So something earth-shattering occurs in the life of Wally West that may drastically change his life forever! Also, he fights Chunk. But it's really more about the other stuff." :lol: There were some great stories involving the villains, but it was mostly about Wally coming into his own and growing into the Legacy of being The Flash. Once that was established with "The Return of Barry Allen", then the villains got a lot more focus.

What's most-remembered about the first 50-70 issues isn't so much who he fought, but angles like him winning and losing a fortune in the lottery, rampant fluctuations in his power levels, anxiety over living up to Barry's approval (remember, at the time they literally just killed Barry like 5 minutes ago), and acting as a full-fledged member of the Justice League for the first time. I really loved it.

So much so, that when I stopped reading comics for a few years before reading heavily again around 2002, at first it was a bit jarring to me how much more focus the villains got over Wally. It was fine, just took a little getting used to at first.

I may be in the minority, but I'd still take Wally's entire run from 1986 to 2009 over anything they've done with Barry since. I like him, but I grew up with Wally, I watched him grow and earn it and become a complete character in and of himself, one arguably stronger than Barry. I'm always going to be a little biased.

Krutch
03-05-2014, 09:37 PM
I enjoyed the extremely brief run that Bart had as The Flash. And not because it was brief like most people; I genuinely liked the character. He was actually really sympathetic if you think about it. A kid suddenly an adult, having to force himself to mature and lose the golden years of his childhood. And even though he was an mopey stressful guy when he was alone, he always tried to be lighthearted and relaxed around everyone. And then it was all over before it even got started.