Shredder vs The Turtles 2014

[MastahShredder]

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Shredders martial arts backround expanded upon by his fighting.

NYC rooftop, late 80's..does it get much better for a fight scene?

He only took a kick from Raph a slice to his arm and presumably a katana to the face by Leo.

What are your thoughts and ideas of how their battle will go down.

Fictner confirmed he has a stunt double so there has to be a final showdown physically between them.

Is there something you'd like to see specifically?

Here is the full fight:

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[Davetello]

Probably my favourite scene in the movie...well, tied with the Splinter scene around the fire in the woods.

It was a brilliant scene, and the best part is the extended part with Leo. Leo is the only one who gets anywhere near him. I also really love how Donnie goes for a leg sweep and Saki easily evades it - it's so subtle but it shows just how on the ball he is, and just how out of their depth the brothers are.

Something which really adds to the scene is the music - it just captures the moment perfectly. It really is a fantastic few minutes for the reasons you allude to.

I'm not sure how fight scene(s) with Shredder will go in the new movie, but it won't capture the mood the way this scene did.

[MastahShredder]

Probably my favourite scene in the movie...well, tied with the Splinter scene around the fire in the woods.

It was a brilliant scene, and the best part is the extended part with Leo. Leo is the only one who gets anywhere near him. I also really love how Donnie goes for a leg sweep and Saki easily evades it - it's so subtle but it shows just how on the ball he is, and just how out of their depth the brothers are.

Something which really adds to the scene is the music - it just captures the moment perfectly. It really is a fantastic few minutes for the reasons you allude to.

I'm not sure how fight scene(s) with Shredder will go in the new movie, but it won't capture the mood the way this scene did.

Agreed. I should have stopped the video at "He Dies".

The video was made to show Shredders skills.

The way he plays mind games with them as well is amazing.

When he turns his back after the first trial of fights, is so subtle yet so awesome. You never turn your back to an enemy, it is the biggest sign of disrespect you can give them.

Like Tatsu said

"Never lower your eyes to an enemy"

Implying he killed Splinter and threatening to kill Leo then the rest of the Turtles was so dark. Look at his face turn into a smirk when he says "It had a name"

The cinematography is beautiful. Dark, wet, gritty NYC at night.

And yeah, Shredders Suite is a masterpiece.

[Jester]

It will take a lot for any movie to top the original for me. Sure a lot of it may be nostalgia, but there's really a lot going on under the surface of that film that makes me love it even more as an adult. Subtle things like the anguish in Splinter's voice when he tells Danny "All fathers care for their sons..." the fact that Mikey blew Donnie off when he wanted to talk about "what it would be like, you know not havin' [Splinter]..." only to see later in Northampton just how much not having Splinter DOES affect him.

Say what you will, the Steve Barron Turtle movie will be extremely hard to top...not just in the action scenes, but in its heart.

[MastahShredder]

I also love this lead-up scene to the fight. It gets me every time.

I get chills when he tells Tatsu he's going to fight himself and to kill Spinter.

Tells Danny to "shut up" and goes into straight militant mode.

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His intro to the Turtles is wicked as well. Drops from out of nowhere.

http://i.minus.com/iRvULLibanVEE.gif

Can't forget the compiment he gives them before the fight.

"You fight well, in the old style. But you've caused me enough trouble"

The music in every scene hits the tone of the film spot on.

[Davetello]

Agreed. I should have stopped the video at "He Dies".

The video was made to show Shredders skills.

The way he plays mind games with them as well is amazing.

When he turns his back after the first trial of fights, is so subtle yet so awesome. You never turn your back to an enemy, it is the biggest sign of disrespect you can give them.

Like Tatsu said

"Never lower your eyes to an enemy"

Implying he killed Splinter and threatening to kill Leo then the rest of the Turtles was so dark.

The cinematography is beautiful. Dark, wet, gritty NYC at night.

And yeah, Shredders Suite is a masterpiece.

Some great points there, especially regarding the psychology of the scene and Shredder's calculating nature. I'd not made the link between Tatsu's comment earlier in the film and Shredder turning his back on the turtles - nice spot.

His supreme confidence in his ability and knowledge that he was a master ninja (and hence his ego) was ultimately his undoing though - had he not been caught off-guard he could have killed Leo and destroyed Splinter far more than he would have had he succeeded in knocking him off the roof, but ultimately his ego and thirst for revenge was too great. There's no way a guy like Saki charges at an enemy standing on the edge of a New York roof without losing his focus due to being consumed by hate. It's interesting that he went from completely and utterly dominating the psychological battle to losing it when a far more experienced adversary appeared.

And, as you say, when all of this is set against the grim backdrop (which is thematic for the entire film) it becomes a brilliant, brilliant scene.

It will take a lot for any movie to top the original for me. Sure a lot of it may be nostalgia, but there's really a lot going on under the surface of that film that makes me love it even more as an adult. Subtle things like the anguish in Splinter's voice when he tells Danny "All fathers care for their sons..." the fact that Mikey blew Donnie off when he wanted to talk about "what it would be like, you know not havin' [Splinter]..." only to see later in Northampton just how much not having Splinter DOES affect him.

Say what you will, the Steve Barron Turtle movie will be extremely hard to top...not just in the action scenes, but in its heart.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Many people seem to give this film backhanded compliments (Roger Ebert said it was 'probably the best possible Turtle movie') but I feel it stands well as a film in its own right. Other than the engaging story, state-of-the-art costumes and well choreographed fight scenes, it does deliver an interesting message regarding family and trust. And, as you say, it goes into it all fairly deeply if people are willing to look.

For a film which was predominantly targeted at youngsters, it is really quite dark and heartfelt.

[Powder]

They don't need to top it, and obviously they're not trying to. They're completely different.

[MastahShredder]

Some great points there, especially regarding the psychology of the scene and Shredder's calculating nature. I'd not made the link between Tatsu's comment earlier in the film and Shredder turning his back on the turtles - nice spot.

His supreme confidence in his ability and knowledge that he was a master ninja (and hence his ego) was ultimately his undoing though - had he not been caught off-guard he could have killed Leo and destroyed Splinter far more than he would have had he succeeded in knocking him off the roof, but ultimately his ego and thirst for revenge was too great. There's no way a guy like Saki charges at an enemy standing on the edge of a New York roof without losing his focus due to being consumed by hate. It's interesting that he went from completely and utterly dominating the psychological battle to losing it when a far more experienced adversary appeared.

And, as you say, when all of this is set against the grim backdrop (which is thematic for the entire film) it becomes a brilliant, brilliant scene.

Look how angry he was when he couldn't find out what the Turtles were, how they took on all of the Foot and Splinter won't speak.

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HANG THERE, UNTIL YOU DIE.

Once he saw that face again, he snapped. You are correct.

His obsession with the Turtles led to his demise.

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[Slade]

I'm pretty much in agreeance with everything that's being said here. I also never noticed the connection of Tatsu's line and Shredder turning his back. T'was an awesome fight scene. I don't think it could be topped emotionally. I imagine the physical part could be at some point.

To Davetello. You say Shredder began losing it when a far more experienced adversary appeared. How do you mean? Just in the psychological aspect?

[MastahShredder]

They don't need to top it, and obviously they're not trying to. They're completely different.

We can use a different word. This movie will never top Barron's.

I just want to hear different ideas from posters.

[Davetello]

I also love this lead-up scene to the fight. It gets me every time.

I get chills when he tells Tatsu he's going to fight himself and to kill Spinter.

Tells Danny to "shut up".

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His intro to the Turtles is wicked as well. Drops from out of nowhere.

http://i.minus.com/iRvULLibanVEE.gif

Can't forget the compiment he gives them before the fight.

"You fight well, in the old style. But you've caused me enough trouble"

The music in every scene hits the tone of the film spot on.



He's just so dominating and intimidating. You can tell that everyone is ****-scared of him, and with good reason - even Tatsu, as we see more closely in SotO. The quote above highlights the supreme confidence in his own skills, and the fact that he sees the turtles as nothing but bothersome flies to be swatted with minimal effort. He would have killed all four of them easily too, had Splinter not appeared. He even uses the psychology to bait them in a 'what could have been' sense, by telling the others that they could have overpowered him had they kept their weapon and sacrificed Leo. I don't think he genuinely believes that for a second, but it's another way for him to antagonise them - at that points he is assuming he will kill Leo and then the other three. By planting that thought in their minds he was piling on the despair. Very cold, sadistic and sociopathic when you think about it.

Like much fiction does, they set the antagonist up as this unbeatable master - a warrior of insane ability. That makes the payoff better as Splinter actually takes him down fairly easily - but as I say above, it's not his skills which let him down, it's his ego and his anger.

Thanks for adding the full video to your original post -I've deleted my link :)

[Davetello]

Look how angry he was when he couldn't find out what the Turtles were, how they took on all of the Foot and Splinter won't speak.

HANG THERE, UNTIL YOU DIE.

Once he saw that face again, he snapped. You are correct.

His obsession with the Turtles led to his demise.

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Yep, he was completely consumed with hate and anger. As always, obsession leads to mistakes.

[Davetello]

I'm pretty much in agreeance with everything that's being said here. I also never noticed the connection of Tatsu's line and Shredder turning his back. T'was an awesome fight scene. I don't think it could be topped emotionally. I imagine the physical part could be at some point.

To Davetello. You say Shredder began losing it when a far more experienced adversary appeared. How do you mean? Just in the psychological aspect?

Yes mate. Splinter doesn't do anything special in terms of ability to take Saki out. I mean his timing is impeccable but really a piece of cake for a guy like Splinter. It's the way he turns the tables psychologically - letting Shredder know who he is by referring to him by his full name, and also revealing in no uncertain terms that he's Yoshi's pet rat. Splinter knew exactly what he was doing there, and that was the hard part done. From there it was moreso Shredder's own rage which killed him, not Splinter's ability. Splinter capitalised on the knowledge that Saki would react without thinking in the heat of the moment. I mean look at how Saki completely forgets about the turtles when Splinter reveals who he is. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even glance at them again - it's tunnel vision.

And sorry for not multi-quoting with these two recent posts - I replied to the first above and I'm not sure how to re-edit and add in a second quote.

[MastahShredder]

Yep, he was completely consumed with hate and anger. As always, obsession leads to mistakes.

Agreed.

I am very curious as to how Splinter will be used in the final fight scene.

I'm also looking forward to see what kind of armor and weaponry Shredder carries.

[NYShell]

This is the best iteration of the Shredder, hands down. Happy Thanksgiving everyone btw.

[Davetello]

Agreed.

I am very curious as to how Splinter will be used in the final fight scene.

I'm also looking forward to see what kind of armor and weaponry he carries.

At this stage I'm not expecting a lot from the new movie, so I will personally not speculate for now.

You can tell just how obsessed he is because he still tries to kill Splinter with the knife as he's dangling from the roof - no consideration that he's about to meet his maker - just pure desire to take the rat down with him.

That scene wasn't in the UK cut so I didn't see it until about 2006 :lol::lol:

You too donnyt2u - have a lovely time.

[MastahShredder]

At this stage I'm not expecting a lot from the new movie, so I will personally not speculate for now.

You can tell just how obsessed he is because he still tries to kill Splinter with the knife as he's dangling from the roof - no consideration that he's about to meet his maker - just pure desire to take the rat down with him.

That scene wasn't in the UK cut so I didn't see it until about 2006 :lol::lol:

You too donnyt2u - have a lovely time.

He was extremely menacing. I just don't think Fictner can pull it off but I am not someone to judge something before I even see it.

He's 56 and his real face will be exposed for much of the movie.

I really hope he has some good action scenes and doesn't make the Foot do everything.

[Slade]

Yes mate. Splinter doesn't do anything special in terms of ability to take Saki out. I mean his timing is impeccable but really a piece of cake for a guy like Splinter. It's the way he turns the tables psychologically - letting Shredder know who he is by referring to him by his full name, and also revealing in no uncertain terms that he's Yoshi's pet rat. Splinter knew exactly what he was doing there, and that was the hard part done. From there it was moreso Shredder's own rage which killed him, not Splinter's ability. Splinter capitalised on the knowledge that Saki would react without thinking in the heat of the moment. I mean look at how Saki completely forgets about the turtles when Splinter reveals who he is. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even glance at them again - it's tunnel vision.

And sorry for not multi-quoting with these two recent posts - I replied to the first above and I'm not sure how to re-edit and add in a second quote.

I thought that's what you meant. Was just making sure.

[Davetello]

He was extremely menacing. I just don't think Fictner can pull it off but I am not someone to judge something before I even see it.

He's 56 and his real face will be exposed for much of the movie.

I really hope he has some good action scenes and doesn't make the Foot do everything.

It's been discussed ad nauseam but the fact that Fichtner isn't Japanese (as well as the whole Eric Sachs thing) means he's climbing a mountain from the start. He's a good actor but he isn't Shredder.

There's no real excuse not to make a fantastic Ninja Turtles movie in the year 2014. Unfortunately it looks like it will not materialise.

[MastahShredder]

Another subtle shot is when he says "It had a name". Check out the smirk on his face.

I really dislike people who dismiss this as a "kids" movie.

[Davetello]

Another subtle shot is when he says "It had a name". Check out the smirk on his face.

Hahaha yeah, You can see the smirk under his mask - which makes things even better because it's subtle, implied and thinly-veiled, just like the remark itself.

When Leo's anguish is clear with the 'you lie!' reaction, he replies with a question - 'do I?'- as well as another smirk. He is taunting them with every comment. He's really quite evil in this movie and preys on people's emotions.

[Jester]

And then Secret of the Ooze happened...

[MastahShredder]

Hahaha yeah, You can see the smirk under his mask - which makes things even better because it's subtle, implied and thinly-veiled, just like the remark itself.

When Leo's anguish is clear with the 'you lie!' reaction, he replies with a question - 'do I?'- as well as another smirk. He is taunting them with every comment. He's really quite evil in this movie and preys on people's emotions.

All of this darkness and we are talking about a five minute clip.

Fictner says this is the darkest Shredder ever (what does he know?)

It's off topic a bit but there was not one light hearted moment with Shredder in the entire film. I love love love that the writer and Barron made him a monster.

Another part is when Splinter disappears from Casey.

Where'd he go? Another chilling moment when you know he's climbing to the top of the building to help his sons.

Sorry to rehash a lot of stuff that has been discussed but I can't get enough of it.

[Davetello]

And then Secret of the Ooze happened...

It was a decent film by sequel standards, and was clearly never going to live up to the original. I think the fact it's (rightly) seen as very inferior to the original is more of a compliment to the original than a slight on SotO, personally.

The film had some nice moments - I particularly enjoyed Donatello's struggle with the realisation that they were just an accident and not part of anything grander.

All of this darkness and we are talking about a five minute clip.

Fictner says this is the darkest Shredder ever (what does he know?)

It's off topic a bit but there was not one light hearted moment with Shredder in the entire film. I love love love that the writer and Barron made him a monster.

Another part is when Splinter disappears from Casey.

Where'd he go? Another chilling moment when you know he's climbing to the top of the building to help his sons.

Sorry to rehash a lot of stuff that has been discussed but I can't get enough of it.

Fichtner is just saying that to try and drum up interest in the film. Can't blame him really but it's highly transparent.

You're right - there's zero humour in this version of Shredder - there doesn't even seem to be any mercy. He's just completely and utterly brutal. I suppose you could say he let Danny go after finding out he'd been with the turtles.

Splinter appearing on the roof seems much like Shredder appearing from out of mid-air - both acts seem implausible in terms of time and/or physics (bearing in mind Splinter has been tied up for weeks and is wounded, as well as the frailties of age), but it's like we are being told that these two characters are masters who are capable of doing things lesser mortals are not. It's building up both of their characters for that final moment on the roof - although, to reiterate, the kicker is that Splinter's victory had little to do with pure physical martial art skill and was far more about psychology.

[MastahShredder]

If I had to guess..

Foot kidnaps Splinter, Leo, Donnie and Mikey.

Raph and April help them escape and a chase ensues with the Foot.

All of this culminizes into a showdown with Sachs.

Where? No clue.

[Davetello]

I thought that's what you meant. Was just making sure.

No problem man. I've enjoyed the discussion - glad you have also.

If I had to guess..

Foot kidnaps Splinter, Leo, Donnie and Mikey.

Raph and April help them escape and a chase ensues with the Foot.

All of this culminizes into a showdown with Sachs.

Where? No clue.

That actually sounds alright, but you just know it will be executed poorly. I know I'm giving this prospective film a lot of cr*p but I just don't see any positive signs.

[MastahShredder]

Leo was swinging to kill. It appears that one of his blades slide across Shredders face piece towards the end of their battle.

Shredder was so slick with his moves and even better at blocks. So elusive as well.

[raph27]

And then Secret of the Ooze happened...
NIIIIIIIIIIIINJAAAAAAAA COWWWWWWBOOOOOY!:tlol:

[chrisdude]

I really feel like the fight from Nick's "The Guantlet" is the fight to beat, now.

There was that talk of "The Raid Redemption."
All the actors can talk about is how cool the action is going to be.
Will Arnett said, "You can take kids, but a lot of the action is really intense."
All the superhero/action movies are PG-13, these days.
Michael Bay.

Everything points to a PG-13 rating. So, I think we're going to see the Turtles as we've never seen them before, in terms of action on the big screen. This is one area in which I have no doubt they will excel.

[NinjaPug]

Watching Attack of the Clones now is making me realize we're probably going to get the Christopher Lee / Count Dooku treatment for the Fichtner / Shredder fight scenes. At least Shredder has a mask so the CGI head replacement won't be as noticeable.

[thebrownranger]

It will take a lot for any movie to top the original for me. Sure a lot of it may be nostalgia, but there's really a lot going on under the surface of that film that makes me love it even more as an adult. Subtle things like the anguish in Splinter's voice when he tells Danny "All fathers care for their sons..." the fact that Mikey blew Donnie off when he wanted to talk about "what it would be like, you know not havin' [Splinter]..." only to see later in Northampton just how much not having Splinter DOES affect him.

Say what you will, the Steve Barron Turtle movie will be extremely hard to top...not just in the action scenes, but in its heart.

You said it. Personally, it's even hard to find the same heart behind all the other comic book crazed movies coming out in recent years. And John Du Prez's compositions were a masterpiece adding all the more to the heart and emotion of the film.

[MastahShredder]

Re-watching the scene, the smirk on Shredders face when he drops in is awesome. He was giddy to have some sort of formidable opponent.