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Ramboraph4life aka Matt
06-19-2014, 04:05 AM
Since both the Ultimate Visual History Book (which only has at most 1 & 1/2 pages of text total if you put it altogether about the making of the show...2 if you include Turtles Forever), and the new documentary (since it's been confirmed that a lot of stuff about the 4kids show was cut out for pacing issues, and the DVD will have no Bonus Material. And who knows when that stuff will be released) don't/won't have much about the making of this show...

Could we perhaps have this be a thread that could have articles/videos/interviews/etc. about the making of this show? And if anything gets found out (any new interviews, or etc.) then it could go here?

That way, for those who Do Actually want to learn about the making of this show, they could just go on here and read it...because to be honest, it looks like that will be the only way to really find out about the making of this show...

For example, to get things started:

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Netkeeper
06-19-2014, 10:12 AM
Since both the Ultimate Visual History Book (which only has at most 1 & 1/2 pages of text total if you put it altogether about the making of the show...2 if you include Turtles Forever), and the new documentary (since it's been confirmed that a lot of stuff about the 4kids show was cut out for pacing issues, and the DVD will have no Bonus Material. And who knows when that stuff will be released) don't/won't have much about the making of this show...
I didn't order the book yet but WOW, WOW, THIS IS SO INSANELY UPSETTING and even the documentary is ucking glossing this show over???? WHAT THE **** WHY IS EVERYBODY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH IGNORING THIS SHOW AND PRETENDING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN WHAT THE ACTUAL **** IS THE DEAL HERE I'm so sick anf ucking tired of remaining silent about this and hoping somebody would actualyl explain what the deal is herwe

I do have some vidoes to contribute to this thrwad bnut I am just not in the emotional state to handle this right now I am so sorry I will post a video once I can gatherr up the ability to go through my bookmarks I'm really sorry

The-Shredder
06-19-2014, 11:37 AM
Here are links to the videos in better quality. However, there are still more Peter Laird interviews that go beyond four. Also, the channel that posted these videos also has some high quality vintage Playmates Toys commercials if anyone is interested.

Peter Laird Interview Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkNX1Q-FV4

Peter Laird Interview Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt41fPi0Y6o

Peter Laird Interview Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVbxwO2478

Peter Laird Interview Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54nFtdqlVCk

Behind the Scenes at 4Kids Entertainment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88UcsqLMW7k

Looking back on the production of the show and watching some 4Kids panels compared to what Nickelodeon is doing makes me feel that Nickelodeon is going more all out with the Turtles with crazy and bizarre ideas than 4Kids did, and although that may sound good on paper, it doesn't really guarantee high quality. I felt that Peter Laird's presence on the 4Kids show really helped to ensure that a lot better. As for the popularity of the show, it's all about promotion. The 4Kids series aired early Saturday mornings on the FoxBox/4Kids TV and at the same time briefly on Cartoon Network, and eventually the CW4Kids, whereas the Nickelodeon series is being aired on none other than Nickelodeon. That and along with Viacom having more resources than 4Kids is the reason the new show is more popular. Even some of the former 4Kids staff brought up the ignorant idea from fans that the Turtles were back after a long time once the 2012 series began, when in fact they've been around for almost the entire 2000s. Or it might have to do with the less serious, less gritty tone being more approachable to a wider audience. Or that the 2003 series is attached to the 4Kids name, which gets a lot of flack from the anime community due to their dubbing. Oh well.

TheSkeletonMan939
06-19-2014, 12:19 PM
Looking back on the production of the show and watching some 4Kids panels compared to what Nickelodeon is doing makes me feel that Nickelodeon is going more all out with the Turtles with crazy and bizarre ideas than 4Kids did, and although that may sound good on paper, it doesn't really guarantee high quality.

Exactly. This is why I have a very hard time enjoying the new Nick series. After a stellar and compelling cartoon like the 2K3 series, I was hoping Nickelodeon would also know how to have fun with the series while keeping it reasonably within realistic bounds.

Considering every episode in the Nick series is about some absurd new mutant, I'm not impressed by it.

Traximus
06-19-2014, 02:57 PM
To be honest, I have a hard time going back and watching the 2k3 series. Especially since this current one. All the pacing issues and overall lack of fun are just too jarring for me.

Plus I can honestly see why they would gloss over this one, as it's really in the forgotten middle child period of the TMNT franchise.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
06-19-2014, 03:37 PM
Plus I can honestly see why they would gloss over this one, as it's really in the forgotten middle child period of the TMNT franchise.


A show that had 7 Seasons, over 150 Episodes, tons of memorabilia (from video games to even a Halloween Bucket Pail) and a TV movie should just be 'glossed' over? There's still quite a bit of fans for this show. So we agree to disagree on that.

But when there are No re-releases of DVD's for new folks (or even older folks) to watch, when documentaries/books/magazines/etc. constantly ignore or gloss over it again & again, and when the new show wants to ignore it completely and yet constantly relate or become an homage to the 80's cartoon...then no wonder the 4kids is 'getting forgotten'.

It's almost like everyone is trying to force this show out of the picture completely.

And again, I wanted to make this thread for folks to put information on the making of the show ala articles, interviews, written interviews, etc...for folks who ARE fans of the show. Not for folks to come in and yet again give their own reasons of 'why it sucks' or etc.

Traximus
06-19-2014, 04:07 PM
A show that had 7 Seasons, over 150 Episodes, tons of memorabilia (from video games to even a Halloween Bucket Pail) and a TV movie should just be 'glossed' over? There's still quite a bit of fans for this show. So we agree to disagree on that.

But when there are No re-releases of DVD's for new folks (or even older folks) to watch, when documentaries/books/magazines/etc. constantly ignore or gloss over it again & again, and when the new show wants to ignore it completely and yet constantly relate or become an homage to the 80's cartoon...then no wonder the 4kids is 'getting forgotten'.


I'm really not trying to start an uproar about this, but when you really go back and put it all perspective, the 2k3 series was never an important part of the franchise's legacy.

The Mirage comics started it all, the original series is the reason for the success, the original movies and video games were a continuation of that success, and the IDW comic, Nick cartoon, and upcoming movie are the rebirth. Even Next Mutation was so mind-bogglingly horrible that it's hard to forget it. I remember during the period of the 2k3 series, most people didn't even know it existed, and the ones that did either liked it, or just passed it over for "not being the old series". It was a successful show in it's own right but never added anything major to set itself up as a notable part of the TMNT legacy. Plus, it made every effort possible to distance itself from the old cartoon series (aka, the thing that put the franchise into pop culture history) so much so that even when paying homage to it it just comes off as resentful and mean-spirited, that it's no wonder no one outside the hardcore fandom gives it any props.

TMNachoT
06-19-2014, 04:38 PM
I did an interview with dancing diablo studios, they did the color and other visual stuff for the 2k3 series!

pennydreadful
06-19-2014, 05:06 PM
I'm really not trying to start an uproar about this, but when you really go back and put it all perspective, the 2k3 series was never an important part of the franchise's legacy.

The Mirage comics started it all, the original series is the reason for the success, the original movies and video games were a continuation of that success, and the IDW comic, Nick cartoon, and upcoming movie are the rebirth. Even Next Mutation was so mind-bogglingly horrible that it's hard to forget it. I remember during the period of the 2k3 series, most people didn't even know it existed, and the ones that did either liked it, or just passed it over for "not being the old series". It was a successful show in it's own right but never added anything major to set itself up as a notable part of the TMNT legacy. Plus, it made every effort possible to distance itself from the old cartoon series (aka, the thing that put the franchise into pop culture history) so much so that even when paying homage to it it just comes off as resentful and mean-spirited, that it's no wonder no one outside the hardcore fandom gives it any props.

Respectfully, I've gotta disagree here - I feel that every entry in the franchise is important, even the things we don't like. It's what gives the franchise history in the first place.

And for my part, 2k3 and Next Mutation are both important (and enjoyable) parts of that history.

TheSkeletonMan939
06-19-2014, 06:08 PM
I did an interview with dancing diablo studios, they did the color and other visual stuff for the 2k3 series!

Did they have anything interesting to say?

Traximus
06-19-2014, 07:04 PM
Respectfully, I've gotta disagree here - I feel that every entry in the franchise is important, even the things we don't like. It's what gives the franchise history in the first place.

And for my part, 2k3 and Next Mutation are both important (and enjoyable) parts of that history.

I can respect that. Despite how I may come across, I actually do like the 2K3 (the first four seasons at least). But i do see how it tends to get overlooked. That whole period for 2003 to 2010 tends be forgotten by most outside the fandom.

CyberCubed
06-19-2014, 07:14 PM
But that's not true. Hun has made his debut in both IDW and Mirage. Karai being Shredder's adopted daughter started in 4kids and was used again in both Nick and IDW.

There's a lot from 4kids that influenced what came after it. I'd even say it's the series that made the action aspect recognized.

tmntpower1988
06-20-2014, 12:46 AM
The 2003 series is really underrated and doesn't get the recognition it deserves. Sad really because this show is my favorite of the three. It had the best plots and action scenes. The fights between the turtles, the foot and Shredder in season 1 were truly epic, much better than the 80s or Nick series. I would not like the TMNT franchise as much if the 2003 series didn't exist. It's what really got me into the turtles. I loved the 80s show when I was a kid but I can't even watch it now. The Nick series can be good some times but there's only a few episodes I like, the majority of them I won't even be watching again with the stupid mutants like Spider Bytez, Snakeweed etc.

Traximus
06-20-2014, 03:23 AM
But that's not true. Hun has made his debut in both IDW and Mirage. Karai being Shredder's adopted daughter started in 4kids and was used again in both Nick and IDW.

There's a lot from 4kids that influenced what came after it. I'd even say it's the series that made the action aspect recognized.

The action aspect was always there from the Mirage comics. It has never been fully realized in animated form, but people remember the action from the first movie more.

True 2k3 introduced characters that would pop back up like Hun and Angel. But in terms of adding anything substantial to the lexicon of TMNT, the only thing in brought was hyper kinetic fight scenes that the new cartoon does just as well.

Jester
06-20-2014, 03:48 AM
One could argue that adapting certain Mirage issues was somewhat substantial....in the cases that they did it well...like the Donnie 1-shot.

Netkeeper
06-20-2014, 04:37 AM
A show that had 7 Seasons, over 150 Episodes, tons of memorabilia (from video games to even a Halloween Bucket Pail) and a TV movie should just be 'glossed' over? There's still quite a bit of fans for this show. So we agree to disagree on that.

But when there are No re-releases of DVD's for new folks (or even older folks) to watch, when documentaries/books/magazines/etc. constantly ignore or gloss over it again & again, and when the new show wants to ignore it completely and yet constantly relate or become an homage to the 80's cartoon...then no wonder the 4kids is 'getting forgotten'.

It's almost like everyone is trying to force this show out of the picture completely.

And again, I wanted to make this thread for folks to put information on the making of the show ala articles, interviews, written interviews, etc...for folks who ARE fans of the show. Not for folks to come in and yet again give their own reasons of 'why it sucks' or etc.
Exactly. Even if you don't like it [for whatever bizarre reason; it adapts the Mirage comics so if you don't like 2k3, you don't like Mirage, all there ****ing is to it] it is still an important part of the franchise. So important. INCREDIBLY important. It deserves more recognition for being amazing animation and marketing needs to stop shoving this show under the god damn rug, because it's really starting to piss me off. I'm not sure who's responsible for it, but if I ever find a way to let my voice be heard, I'm going to make sure it's ****ing LOUD, because I am absolutely livid.

Jester
06-20-2014, 04:43 AM
it adapts the Mirage comics so if you don't like 2k3, you don't like Mirage, all there ****ing is to it.
I'm not sure I'd go that far. I know many Mirage purists aren't huge fans of the 4Kids series because some times it doesn't necessarily adapt, it bastardizes.

*Note: This is not my personal opinion....but I've heard that argument before.

Netkeeper
06-20-2014, 04:47 AM
The kind of opinions that are easy to ignore, in other words.

But hey, I'd talk to a Mirage purist over a Nick purist any god damn day.

Powder
06-20-2014, 04:53 AM
As a hardcore Mirage fan, the 4kids show was at it's best when it was completely original. Ninja Tribunal, Fast Forward, season 4. The Mirage "adaptions" are not so good.

Jester
06-20-2014, 04:55 AM
As a hardcore Mirage fan, the 4kids show was at it's best when it was completely original. Ninja Tribunal, Fast Forward, season 4. The Mirage "adaptions" are not so good.
To a point. I think one of the best adaptations was the Kirby episode....but it's the easiest to adapt...heck, even random House did when I was a wee lad.
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Netkeeper
06-20-2014, 05:04 AM
As a hardcore Mirage fan, the 4kids show was at it's best when it was completely original. Ninja Tribunal, Fast Forward, season 4. The Mirage "adaptions" are not so good.
I respectfully disagree. Our opinions are going to differ because my tastes are more inclined towards animation than western comics, so I know my perspective is different from yours, but when watching 2k3 I honestly would not have known the stories contained within were adapted from Mirage if I didn't know about its existence prior. It brought stories from a medium I do not usually enjoy [western comics] and translated them to a medium I heavily enjoy [western 2D animation] almost flawlessly. The changes and part of what made 2k3 it's own unique work just push it over the edge and make it the most enjoyable TMNT experience for me personally, because it caters to my precise tastes.

EDIT: I might want to tack on a disclaimer of "I also heavily enjoy medium-to-medium adaptations and am currently working on one myself" to this post as I know I contain bias as being one of those rare adaptation-enjoying fans.

Jester
06-20-2014, 05:11 AM
City at War was a unmitigated mess...but the more I think about it the adaptations seem to be pretty spot-on aside from that one misstep.

Netkeeper
06-20-2014, 06:09 AM
Okay, yeah, as I rewatched that one recently I can agree there.

The-Shredder
06-20-2014, 10:16 AM
Here are some interviews Michele Ivey did for Cowabunga Corner that give a lot of great insight into how the show was made.

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Whatswiththeheadbands?
06-20-2014, 03:07 PM
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Woah, Michael's voice has certainly changed. Usually with Voice Actors you can tell, even if they aren't doing voice acting, what voice character they are playing.

With Michael's voice, I can't tell he played Leo at all.

Powder
06-20-2014, 05:19 PM
Heh, I was there in person for the Scott Williams interview. He's one hell of a guy. He invited us out for drinks but I had a train to catch. :(

CyberCubed
06-20-2014, 06:13 PM
Some people in this thread have no idea about the fandom history. 4kids TMNT was a ratings hit on 4kids block only getting beaten by Yu-Gi-oh and Sonic X in ratings.

The show also aired on Cartoon Network on weekdays or at least Seasons 1-3 did for at least 2 years.

TMNachoT
06-20-2014, 07:56 PM
Did they have anything interesting to say?

The question is, what is interesting for you? I liked the interview, the guys were really nice to me. Here it is, both in spanish and english: http://universomirage.blogspot.com/2011/03/miscellaneous-entrevista-dancing.html :D

marcelangelo
06-30-2014, 08:30 AM
hey guys....I like this thread very much and found this one today...enjoy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQGk3NaarnM

Leofan26
07-11-2014, 02:22 PM
Yah, I hate how the Nick series is trying to ignore the 4Kids series more than any thing. I was really hoping we'd get some what of a crossover between them like what they did with the 80s show but nope.

Funny thing is, they are doing kind of the same episodes but doing it too slow in my opinion. They could have done so much with these arcs in season two of the Nick series but keep adding in filler type episodes making it feel like it's taking forever to see. Three or four episodes later they connect the arcs, filler episodes they act like nothing important happened, example? Learning the secret about
Karai, he's had this big crush on Karai since they first interacted and no reaction or helping till they get back to the main plot, it's like what?

Sorry if it sounds like a complaint but yah know :ohwell: