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Tack
08-11-2014, 06:07 PM
I've been hearing for a long time that the 2003 series was actually better then it should have been. And while it's hard to find whole seasons now, was it really that good?

CyberCubed
08-11-2014, 06:11 PM
Are you being serious? The show was one of the best written action cartoons of the 2000's, with the best fight scenes, animation and story arcs of any show of the era. Its not just a good TMNT show, its one of the best American animated superhero/action cartoons of all time.

The entire show can be watched for free on youtube. Look up an episode list and type the episodes on youtube, you can watch the entire series for free.

TheSkeletonMan939
08-11-2014, 06:17 PM
Action sequences are well executed, the animation style is realistic yet still cartoony in its own way, the character development is great, the plots are exquisite, and the music is top-notch. Highly recommended. You might find that the first few episodes start out a little slow, but it's one of the best television shows I've seen.

CyberCubed
08-11-2014, 06:19 PM
You might find that the first few episodes start out a little slow, but it's one of the best television shows I've seen.

The first season moved at a very good pace, aside from a few of the fillers. Whenever I think back to the show it amazes me the huge amount of story material they covered in such a short time.

TheSkeletonMan939
08-11-2014, 06:26 PM
The first season moved at a very good pace, aside from a few of the fillers. Whenever I think back to the show it amazes me the huge amount of story material they covered in such a short time.

I can imagine a newcomer being a little intimidated by the fast pace of the first three episodes.

Netkeeper
08-11-2014, 07:06 PM
2k3 is amazing. It's absolutely worth it, and the episodes are so good you'll go through all of them in no time. It's definitely the best on-screen incarnation of the turtles we have ever, and probably will ever, get.

DarkLightDragon
08-11-2014, 07:15 PM
I'd say so.

Still my all-time favorite iteration of the Turtles. It was my first exposure to them and honestly couldn't have been a better introduction to the franchise for me.

Werecat
08-11-2014, 07:49 PM
Actually, I would rate 2k3 a 5/10, it isn't the best or the worst. There are several plot holes and missed opportunities. The characterization is poor. Leo is the only one that gets any development and is god moded beyond belief. Raphael is the weakest, insignificant character on that show because he contributes nothing to the team and is more of a liability then a competent ally. While Leonardo is portrayed as the superior one. If you don't care about good characterization and have low expectations then watch it. It is not terrible but it does have several negatives.

2012 is probrably the best animated TMNT show so far. 1987 coming in second place. 2k3 coming in 3rd.

CyberCubed
08-11-2014, 07:55 PM
Actually, I would rate 2k3 a 5/10, it isn't the best or the worst. There are several plot holes and missed opportunities. The characterization is poor. Leo is the only one that gets any development and is god moded beyond belief. Raphael is the weakest, insignificant character on that show because he contributes nothing to the team and is more of a liability then a competent ally. While Leonardo is portrayed as the superior one. If you don't care about good characterization and have low expectations then watch it. It is not terrible but it does have several negatives.

2012 is probrably the best animated TMNT show so far. 1987 coming in second place. 2k3 coming in 3rd.

Lol, what? There aren't any plot holes in the show, at least not major ones. And the characterization for the Turtles were very spot on, aside from Mikey's character getting a tad annoying/obnoxious in the later seasons.

And you're completely and utterly wrong about Leo getting portrayed as superior. All the Turtles get an equal time to shine, it's just that Leo ties in to Splinter's grudge with Shredder the most. Mike wins the Battle Nexus, Raph gets his spotlight episodes and Donatello saves the day and comes up with the plans to take out shredder/Bishop or any situation.

The show isn't perfect, it has some dull fillers but it's the best plot written of the 3 shows.

shuriken
08-11-2014, 08:01 PM
^^It's not that bad. But Leo is definitely "Super Leo " in this series.
Casey (as the seroes progresses) is the liability constantly getting his ass kicked.
It has a good pace and good action. Its sometimes unintentionally funny, and it takes itself waaaay to seriously at times as well as making Mikey an annoying prick by the 3rd season. Donnie and Leo are written consistently well while Raph and Mikey are anywhere from good to terrible.
It's not terrible, but it's definitely worth a shot.

Raphies
08-11-2014, 08:37 PM
It's my favorite incarnation of the turtles, it got me into turtles, I'd say so.

And I have to agree with the "super Leo" thing, as much as I love him, he gets the most episodes. I also feel Raph didn't get enough development sadly, most of the episodes centered around him are in the first season.

It's still worth a shot though.

Slade
08-11-2014, 08:59 PM
It's why we got Turtles Forever, which had Turtle Prime, which needs it on series....

Yeah, the show is good. Better than the OT I think.

Leo656
08-11-2014, 09:16 PM
I dig it, I recommend it. I'm really only most familiar with the first two seasons since I saw them the most but I always liked it a lot. I thought a lot of the characterization was fine, if a little one-note sometimes, but Splinter was actually really deadpan funny a lot of the time, which I loved.

And since I've always seen Leo ignored, pushed aside or made out to be a "whiner" or "bossy know-it-all" in every other incarnation, I had zero problem with him being so much of a focus of this show. He's the leader, he should be the focus. Naturally they all should have a "turn", but everyone else always got a lot more attention than Leo did in every other version, so in my mind it was just "catching up". Obviously I'm biased, but still, it was good to see Leo get a push instead of Raph for a change.

It's a good show, everyone should check it out. Some people don't like it, but that's their prerogative. Seems like some of them vastly prefer a "sillier" TMNT, but even if you completely don't care about TMNT at all, objectively, it's still a good action/adventure show with some good comedy in there as well.

CyberCubed
08-11-2014, 09:26 PM
The best comparison for this series is Gargoyles, Young Justice or Justice League. If you liked any of the Greg Weisman cartoons or the DCAU, there's no reason not to like TMNT 2k3. Its written almost the exact same way, just with slightly weaker characterisation.

pennydreadful
08-11-2014, 10:48 PM
For my two cents, I think it's the best TMNT cartoon that we've had. It manages to hit the right notes between action and comedy, it's fairly well-animated, incorporates some good storylines from the comics - while some people feel that later seasons weren't as strong, I enjoyed all of it.

If nothing else, at least check out the first few seasons. I think you'll find it to be time well-spent.

Netkeeper
08-12-2014, 12:35 AM
Leo is the only one that gets any development and is god moded beyond belief. Raphael is the weakest, insignificant character on that show because he contributes nothing to the team and is more of a liability then a competent ally. While Leonardo is portrayed as the superior one.
Ah yes, Leonardo, who stupidly almost joined forces with the Shredder, spent like half a season moping, is definitely OP in this series. I bet Leonardo himself would agree with you as he thinks back to the time he hurt his own Sensei during training.

And in case you weren't aware, having a hair-trigger temper IS a liability. Anger will cloud someone's thoughts and their fighting will suffer for it -- this is common sense. Good fighting shows cover this weakness (http://youtu.be/TBur0HmRKlo?t=8m50s), because it's definitely not a strength.

Raph isn't weak or insignificant, however, you're probably just butthurt that Michelangelo's raw talent and manipulative personality beat Raph's angry ass at the Battle Nexus. That right there was one of the best moments in 2k3. Proof that Mikey isn't an idiot, he just acts like it because it's what people think is funny and because it makes it easier to get what he wants.

musashi-kamiizumi
08-12-2014, 02:13 AM
Hmmm, maybe I should watch it. It's one of the few turtleverses I haven't seen much of, though I have seen Turtles Forever.

Candy Kappa
08-12-2014, 02:15 AM
it's a decent show.

Whatswiththeheadbands?
08-12-2014, 04:42 AM
Are you being serious? The show was one of the best written action cartoons of the 2000's, with the best fight scenes, animation and story arcs of any show of the era. Its not just a good TMNT show, its one of the best American animated superhero/action cartoons of all time.

The entire show can be watched for free on youtube. Look up an episode list and type the episodes on youtube, you can watch the entire series for free.

Action sequences are well executed, the animation style is realistic yet still cartoony in its own way, the character development is great, the plots are exquisite, and the music is top-notch. Highly recommended. You might find that the first few episodes start out a little slow, but it's one of the best television shows I've seen.

2k3 is amazing. It's absolutely worth it, and the episodes are so good you'll go through all of them in no time. It's definitely the best on-screen incarnation of the turtles we have ever, and probably will ever, get.

I'd say so.

Still my all-time favorite iteration of the Turtles. It was my first exposure to them and honestly couldn't have been a better introduction to the franchise for me.

It's my favorite incarnation of the turtles, it got me into turtles, I'd say so.

And I have to agree with the "super Leo" thing, as much as I love him, he gets the most episodes. I also feel Raph didn't get enough development sadly, most of the episodes centered around him are in the first season.

It's still worth a shot though.

For my two cents, I think it's the best TMNT cartoon that we've had. It manages to hit the right notes between action and comedy, it's fairly well-animated, incorporates some good storylines from the comics - while some people feel that later seasons weren't as strong, I enjoyed all of it.

If nothing else, at least check out the first few seasons. I think you'll find it to be time well-spent.

I agree with all of this. I grew up with this series, and I think it's the best incarnation. It has the perfect blend of light hearted and dark, which is exactly what I love.

tmntpower1988
08-12-2014, 04:47 AM
You should definately watch it. It's the best cartoon incarnation of the turtles. The storylines are much better in this show than they are in Nick and OT. The fight scenes are impressive too. The animation is great too in the first 5 seasons.

The best comparison for this series is Gargoyles, Young Justice or Justice League. If you liked any of the Greg Weisman cartoons or the DCAU, there's no reason not to like TMNT 2k3. Its written almost the exact same way, just with slightly weaker characterisation.

Justice League is amazing. Gargoyles is good too but it's not as good as 2k3 or JL though. Never watched Young Justice.

DarkLightDragon
08-12-2014, 07:59 AM
I dig it, I recommend it. I'm really only most familiar with the first two seasons since I saw them the most but I always liked it a lot. I thought a lot of the characterization was fine, if a little one-note sometimes, but Splinter was actually really deadpan funny a lot of the time, which I loved.

And since I've always seen Leo ignored, pushed aside or made out to be a "whiner" or "bossy know-it-all" in every other incarnation, I had zero problem with him being so much of a focus of this show. He's the leader, he should be the focus. Naturally they all should have a "turn", but everyone else always got a lot more attention than Leo did in every other version, so in my mind it was just "catching up". Obviously I'm biased, but still, it was good to see Leo get a push instead of Raph for a change.

It's a good show, everyone should check it out. Some people don't like it, but that's their prerogative. Seems like some of them vastly prefer a "sillier" TMNT, but even if you completely don't care about TMNT at all, objectively, it's still a good action/adventure show with some good comedy in there as well.

Agreed. Aside from the original 1990 film and to an extent Mirage, there never seemed to be a *really* good portrayal of Leo. It almost seemed like Leo got the shaft in terms of being a favorite Turtle or given as good writing as his brothers got. He was just the unofficial leader, that's it. There seemed to be a lot of untapped potential regarding how he personally felt about shouldering so much responsibility and how failure was an inevitable thing every time they got themselves into deep s*it, and I feel the Mirage comics or the FW didn't completely grasp that. Here, we got that in spades. Yeah, I understand it might not be everyone's cup of tea and can see how the 'Super Leo' can be backed up, but to me, it's a whole lot better than what came before. And another I want to give this show credit for is that it paved the way for more decent portrayals for Leo:

-The '07 movie (to an extent, though that would file under more of the flaws of the movie's script)
-IDW
-And of course, the 2012 Nick show

These three examples still managed to carry over what could make Leo an appealing character worth writing about while each making their own twist on it.

Tack
08-12-2014, 10:04 AM
Then maybe I can try to watch the first episode and go from there. I know it's highly regarded by fans. I remember flipping though the tv one morning and seeing the turtles on the Triceratons planet! So I'm guessing they draw more from the Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird's comic a bit more?

Netkeeper
08-12-2014, 10:05 AM
Yeah, they adapt a lot of stories. And speaking as a person that loves adaptations, they did it really well.

CyberCubed
08-12-2014, 10:09 AM
I remember flipping though the tv one morning and seeing the turtles on the Triceratons planet! So I'm guessing they draw more from the Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird's comic a bit more?

And this is odd, how? The Turtles go into space in every single incarnation.

ABrown
08-12-2014, 10:39 AM
The 4Kids TMNT cartoon is not only my favorite TMNT cartoon, but it's probably my all time favorite action cartoon of any franchise. It's exactly what I want an action cartoon to be. The sixth season, the Fast Forward season, was a little lighter. I didn't enjoy it on the same level that I enjoyed seasons 1-5, but it was still very entertaining. After the final season aired, I wasn't really sorry to see the show come to an end. And the show closed out with a very memorable movie to celebrate all of the various TMNT incarnations. It's a shame that Nickelodeon pretends that the series never existed, and only pays homage to the original cartoon.

Tack
08-12-2014, 10:48 AM
And this is odd, how? The Turtles go into space in every single incarnation.

I think it was more that they were aiming an arc more toward the original comics. :trazz:

zodiac brave
08-12-2014, 12:35 PM
^^It's not that bad. But Leo is definitely "Super Leo " in this series.
Casey (as the seroes progresses) is the liability constantly getting his ass kicked.
It has a good pace and good action. Its sometimes unintentionally funny, and it takes itself waaaay to seriously at times as well as making Mikey an annoying prick by the 3rd season. Donnie and Leo are written consistently well while Raph and Mikey are anywhere from good to terrible.
It's not terrible, but it's definitely worth a shot.

this.

it's not bad and when its great, its GREAT.

but when its bad...its BAAAAAAD...sheesh.

CyberCubed
08-12-2014, 12:53 PM
this.

it's not bad and when its great, its GREAT.

but when its bad...its BAAAAAAD...sheesh.

Even when the show has some bad episodes, they weren't that terrible.

pharaohyami5000
08-12-2014, 01:36 PM
Yes. It is a high recommendation. Even if 2k3 is a re-creation of TMNT, I also see it as a tiny sequel of the Classics (if you've watched all of them from start to end) from watching 2k3's 1st episode.

I love the characterization of each turtle and the other characters (including screentime of for example Usagi), a mixture of continuation and episodic episodes, every action scenes and good combination of drama and humor, all the villains (bar 1, which got 2 episode appearances? really?) and currently my favorite Shredder.

Say whatever you want of Shredder not being human. If this "flaw" allows him to be 1 of the most evil, diabolical and ruthless overlord of the TMNT series, so be it. Heck, I don't recall any human in cartoons for the older audience (I would say... in the 20s?) and under that has this level of evil baddasery, are there? I may have missed a few or more. *shrugs*

Try the series out. If you like what you see, please continue. If not, ah well.

Yorae
08-13-2014, 12:49 AM
Definitely give this series a watch! You are missing out on a great TMNT universe if you don't.

shuriken
08-13-2014, 01:52 PM
Even when the show has some bad episodes, they weren't that terrible.

The golden puck, Garbageman, Nano, effin Monster Hunter were all terrible.

Netkeeper
08-13-2014, 01:56 PM
Dude, I loved all of those episodes. They're adorable and silly.

Also wow did Nano make you sad at the end, is that why you dislike it, because I've never met a single person who thought that was a bad episode

CyberCubed
08-13-2014, 02:30 PM
The golden puck, Garbageman, Nano, effin Monster Hunter were all terrible.

The Golden Puck was great, what was wrong with it? The first Nano and Garbageman episodes were average, nothing terrible but nothing great. The second Nano episode was dull because it was too much of a repeat of the first. Junklantis and Monster Hunter were bad though.

TheSkeletonMan939
08-13-2014, 02:32 PM
Even the word "Junklantis" makes me want to punch something. I think that was the worst episode of the entire series, FF and BttS included.

CyberCubed
08-13-2014, 02:39 PM
Even the word "Junklantis" makes me want to punch something. I think that was the worst episode of the entire series, FF and BttS included.

Eh, I'd say that random BTTS episode with the evil toy mad scientist and the baby Turtles was the worst episode of the entire series. But Junklantis was the worst episode of the first 5 seasons at least.

Why they made that instead of giving Rat King a second episode is beyond me. Truly the biggest missed opportunity of this show was that Rat King only ever got a single episode. I have no idea why that was for such an important villain in TMNT history.

plastroncafe
08-13-2014, 02:46 PM
I remember really enjoying what I've seen of of the 2k3 'toon.
My major complaints are superficial at best, ie: I'm not a fan of that incarnation of Mike, and the theme song trips my contact embarrassment for some reason.

But if you have the means I would totally check it out.
If you're looking for the 'toon on DvD, I might be able to help you out.

ABrown
08-13-2014, 02:53 PM
The overall greatness of the 4Kids series FAR exceeds the occasional filler episode. I'd said my times, I'll take a 4Kids filler episode over a Nickelodeon mutant-of-the-week episode any day.

CyberCubed
08-13-2014, 03:04 PM
I remember really enjoying what I've seen of of the 2k3 'toon.


You mean you weren't watching it when it originally aired? Where were you from 2003-2009?

plastroncafe
08-13-2014, 03:29 PM
You mean you weren't watching it when it originally aired? Where were you from 2003-2009?

Walking the earth like Kane from Kung-Fu.

Leo656
08-13-2014, 08:51 PM
http://media3.giphy.com/media/IxJMT1ugyBMdy/giphy.gif

Warhorse
08-13-2014, 09:54 PM
You mean you weren't watching it when it originally aired? Where were you from 2003-2009?

I didn't become aware of the show until I discovered this place, so that would be around 2006. At first, I wasn't too crazy for it (I didn't like the Turtles being shown without pupils, about as much as you don't like the new movie where the Turtles have large, overprotruding nostrils)

But I got over it. It's a great show, but it's also frustrating to watch when you're a Raph fan. It's like, they really were holding him back in this, it's like a stretch to write great storylines and fight scenes for him. All of the glory went to Leo the most.

Eiko
08-13-2014, 10:11 PM
It was a good show, only problem it had was it focused to much on Leo.

Leo656
08-13-2014, 10:42 PM
That's a pretty good "problem" to have.

CyberCubed
08-13-2014, 11:06 PM
It doesn't even focus on Leo that much except for a few eps in Season 4. I have no idea where people are getting this idea from.

Leo656
08-13-2014, 11:07 PM
Nah, I kinda get it. He definitely seems like the "main character" of the Turtles themselves right from the beginning. But eh, fine with me.

Netkeeper
08-14-2014, 01:49 AM
I don't mind it at all because it gives Leo a distinction aside from "the boring vaguely-spiritual leader".

ABrown
08-14-2014, 07:37 AM
I would say that the 4Kids series was definitely more Leo focused than on any of the other three turtles. Never really saw it as a problem though. In fact, I usually enjoyed the stories that focused on Leo.

LeotheLateBloomer
08-14-2014, 08:57 AM
The Leo episodes may have been the pivot point but Raph, Don, and Mikey definately had plenty of episodes that developed their characters. Raph has more episodes focused on him in this show than in the Nick cartoon.

thebrownranger
08-14-2014, 02:07 PM
I highly recommend the 2k3 series Tack, pretty much for all the reasons that were already listed by other members. There's a user on YouTube that has pretty much the whole show uploaded except the last season, I believe.

TheSkeletonMan939
08-14-2014, 02:40 PM
There's a user on YouTube that has pretty much the whole show uploaded except the last season, I believe.

That'd be tmntuploader (https://www.youtube.com/user/tmntuploader), an old friend of mine.

The reason Back to the Sewer isn't on YouTube is that, for some bizarre reason, Nickelodeon has decided to take down season 7 episodes. They leave seasons 1 through 6 and Turtles Forever alone, but you'll be hard pressed to get a BttS episode on YT. It's mind-boggling.

CyberCubed
08-19-2014, 05:06 PM
. They leave seasons 1 through 6 and Turtles Forever alone, but you'll be hard pressed to get a BttS episode on YT. It's mind-boggling.

That's odd, I'd probably say its because Season 7 never got a U.S. release on DVD. But then again it doesn't make sense since Nick isn't selling new 4kids DVDs and they leave the rest of the show up.

THGhost
08-19-2014, 07:24 PM
Oh good God yes! This is my favourite TMNT cartoon and you should definitely watch it.

I never really liked Leo compared to the others, always found him boring. So the show couldn't have had all that much focus on him. :P

Davetello
08-20-2014, 11:11 AM
It's well worth watching. As mentioned, Turtles 2k3, Gargoyles and Justice League are all brilliant. Turtles is my personal favourite due to me being a bigger turtles fan than DC fan, but objectively speaking Justice League is the best of the three.

I remember when I first saw the show - it was winter 2003, and I'd been out of the fandom for a while, say about 6 years (was teased back in circa May 2002 when the original film and SotO were broadcast on television). The first episode I seen on TV was "Tales of Leo", and as you can imagine it was confusing. I had no idea a new turtles cartoon was being made - this was at a time when I rarely used the internet and didn't have it in my home. I also knew nothing of the Mirage comics at the time. The show ended up being repeated on television in 2004 and from there I watched and taped (yes, taped), the first season.

From there I sort of lost track again until 2006. Not sure why. But come 2006 I finally had the internet at home and started reading up on Mirage, the new show etc. I managed to get access to all of the first four seasons. I absolutely loved them. And when I went back to read Mirage in 2007 I found that the comic adaptations were pretty faithful.

In 2007 I watched Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward, then BttS when it aired in 2008 and 2009.

I'd say I've watched the entire show about 5 times in total now. I just finished an entire rewatch the other night. It's one of those shows where I feel truly envious of anyone who's about to watch it for the first time - if I could erase the contents of the show from my mind and watch it fresh, I'd do it in an instant. The plots, animation (other than Fast Forward), characterisation are all excellent facets of the show. It is surprisingly dark as well (people who've seen the show know the sort of events I am talking about, but I won't cite examples so as not to spoil).

Definitely give it a watch mate - you won't regret it. As CyberCubed says, the entire show can be watched on Youtube for free whilst we're waiting on that much desired DVD boxset.

Refractive Reflections
08-20-2014, 04:41 PM
I would suggest viewing through it once (as with any TMNT series) before purchasing, just to make sure the tone is what you like.

Although the storywriting (the first 4 seasons) and character development of Leo is solid (hyperfocused from my perspective), to me though, the pretentiousness and melodrama of the series is its Achilles' heel. The action scenes can be over-the-top, not in terms of cartoon logic, but defying its own fighting logic. Which I kind of explained here:

Oddly enough, and I know I'm probably going to get flamed here, but I would say some of the melodrama moments were unintentionally hilarious, especially with Ch'rell. These were just a few examples I could think of...

1) In "The Shredder Strikes Back Part 2", when the Turtles, April, and Casey are locked in the freezer closet at April's store when Ch'rell attacks; and after cutting the gas line, he slowly walks away and gives part of his "Pheonix from the ashes" speech rather than the logical approach of running the heck out of there.

2) "Return to New York, Part 3", the arguing was more like bickering than threatening between Ch'rell and Baxter Stockman. The fiery explosions released by Baxter's cyborg suit, and the floor still didn't fall in?!? Just when you think that mosquito Baxter is gone three times and yells as if it's his final doom, he comes back again quickly reassuring each time, "Oh! I planned for that possibility...". :lol: Then finally when Baxter's launched away, for me at least, the tone gets serious again.

3) "Secret Origins, Part 3", just when you think there's this epic moment of Baxter (the robotic insect) defeating Ch'rell and Hun lifting Utrom Shredder's lifeless body saying, "We'll be back freaks..." Less than 5 minutes later, BOOM, Ch'rell is back as if nothing happened to him. That was quick... I guess Baxter didn't really do much damage to Ch'rell then. :lol:

It's moments like these that somewhat deflated the suspense and seriousness of 2K3 TMNT (when the show wasn't even trying to be funny at these times), at least for me. :ohwell:

For me, with a series taking itself so seriously (which is the crux of the whole series), it's moments like those that ruin the delicate aspect of conveying a serious tone. In addition, the visual melodrama with the sudden appearance of the top and bottom black horizontal lines to focus on their eyes for an upcoming suspense scene, and the prolonged attention on their intense facial reactions just further amplify the emotion beyond the logic. (To me, the 1990 movie is the TMNT depiction I would consider, executed and maintained an effective serious tone at the appropriate times.)

To sum up from my experience, when 2K3 is good, it's GOOD, but when it's melodrama bad, it's laughable in what it is trying to accomplish.

CyberCubed
08-20-2014, 06:07 PM
Season 5 had great storytelling, the only flaws being the human acolytes were rather underdeveloped and didn't serve much purpose. Perhaps if Season 5 got 26 episodes we could have seen more of them.

tmntpower1988
08-21-2014, 05:40 AM
It's well worth watching. As mentioned, Turtles 2k3, Gargoyles and Justice League are all brilliant. Turtles is my personal favourite due to me being a bigger turtles fan than DC fan, but objectively speaking Justice League is the best of the three.

Definitely give it a watch mate - you won't regret it. As CyberCubed says, the entire show can be watched on Youtube for free whilst we're waiting on that much desired DVD boxset.

I agree Justice League is the best, the first two original seasons anyway. I felt Justice League Unlimited was a bit rushed at times and it didn't have the same epic feeling as the original JL but it was still good though. I won't hold my breath on getting a boxset for the 2k3 series. As much as I'd love for it to happen, I just don't see Nick releasing them for some reason :(

ABrown
08-21-2014, 08:37 AM
I agree Justice League is the best, the first two original seasons anyway. I felt Justice League Unlimited was a bit rushed at times and it didn't have the same epic feeling as the original JL but it was still good though. I won't hold my breath on getting a boxset for the 2k3 series. As much as I'd love for it to happen, I just don't see Nick releasing them for some reason :(

Actually, I prefer the 39 Justice League Unlimited episodes to the 52 regular Justice League episodes. I thought that JLU episodes matched up a little bit better with the first five seasons of the 4Kids TMNT series. For whatever it's worth, the first 26 JLU episodes from 2004-2005, along with the third season of the 4Kids TMNT series were two of my favorite seasons of any action cartoon. So that was a REALLY enjoyable season of action cartoons for me.

jenna
08-21-2014, 08:43 AM
I didn't become aware of the show until I discovered this place, so that would be around 2006. At first, I wasn't too crazy for it (I didn't like the Turtles being shown without pupils, about as much as you don't like the new movie where the Turtles have large, overprotruding nostrils)

But I got over it. It's a great show, but it's also frustrating to watch when you're a Raph fan. It's like, they really were holding him back in this, it's like a stretch to write great storylines and fight scenes for him. All of the glory went to Leo the most.

Same. It took me a while to adapt to the look of the turtles, and Raphael is really shortchanged as a character. It's like they didn't quite know what to do with him, so just resorted to making him brutish and loud enough to mask the fact that there are very few Raph-centric episodes.

That aside, I would definitely recommend 2k3. It's compulsive watching, at least until the Ninja Tribunal story arc, which took things off in a different direction. It's well-written (Raph notwithstanding), atmospheric and has some interesting original characters as well as old favourites such as Leatherhead. It takes most of its stories from Mirage, but it is respectful of other incarnations and there are a lot of OT references. Even Krang makes a cameo appearance! The martial arts are also done well. I'd definitely recommend it.

All I would say is... start from the beginning and work through it chronologically. The story-arcs can be long and cover multiple episodes, so it's not really something you can dip in and out of. I found that out the hard way. Thank God for dvds....

Netkeeper
08-21-2014, 12:39 PM
Season 5 had great storytelling, the only flaws being the human acolytes were rather underdeveloped and didn't serve much purpose. Perhaps if Season 5 got 26 episodes we could have seen more of them.
Yeah, this would have been great. I liked seeing the turtles interact with them.

The True Shredder
08-31-2014, 06:54 PM
Season 5 had great storytelling, the only flaws being the human acolytes were rather underdeveloped and didn't serve much purpose. Perhaps if Season 5 got 26 episodes we could have seen more of them.

The human acolytes were there to help the Turtles on their journey. Have you noticed that each human acolyte represent ed each Turtle? They were never going to be relevant to begin with.

CyberCubed
08-31-2014, 07:23 PM
The human acolytes were there to help the Turtles on their journey. Have you noticed that each human acolyte represent ed each Turtle? They were never going to be relevant to begin with.

Had Season 5 been 26 episodes, the human acolytes would have likely had a far bigger role and been much more fleshed out. Instead of "dying" when the tribunal is destroyed, the human acolytes should have simply jumped through the portal with the Turtles to NYC. Then they could have made 10 episodes (instead of just the one Nano/Justice Force one), showing the human acolytes with the Turtles in NYC and training and going on missions.

We also would have likely gotten another Rat King episode, and probably a few more one-shot comic adaptions in the span before Demon Shredder came back to life leading into the end of the season.

Davetello
08-31-2014, 09:27 PM
I agree Justice League is the best, the first two original seasons anyway. I felt Justice League Unlimited was a bit rushed at times and it didn't have the same epic feeling as the original JL but it was still good though. I won't hold my breath on getting a boxset for the 2k3 series. As much as I'd love for it to happen, I just don't see Nick releasing them for some reason :(

Yeah, I felt the same about JLU. It was good, but the first two seasons i.e. the original JL consisted of two and three part stories which meant they were able to develop more characters and plotlines. They weren't constrained by time limits. Plus it just felt more epic limiting the team to 7 of the most well known heroes. I like the fact that they chose more women and a black GL as well - as many have said it was a very culturally and racially open team.

I don't think the DVD set will be released soon either, but I was speaking more out of hope than expectation, lol.

tmntpower1988
09-01-2014, 05:41 AM
Yeah, I felt the same about JLU. It was good, but the first two seasons i.e. the original JL consisted of two and three part stories which meant they were able to develop more characters and plotlines. They weren't constrained by time limits. Plus it just felt more epic limiting the team to 7 of the most well known heroes. I like the fact that they chose more women and a black GL as well - as many have said it was a very culturally and racially open team.

I don't think the DVD set will be released soon either, but I was speaking more out of hope than expectation, lol.

Also the theme song for the first 2 seasons was amazing :D One of the best theme songs I've ever heard for a cartoon. The original 7 JL members were the best. There was a sh*t load of members in JLU :o

Davetello
09-01-2014, 08:25 AM
Also the theme song for the first 2 seasons was amazing :D One of the best theme songs I've ever heard for a cartoon. The original 7 JL members were the best. There was a sh*t load of members in JLU :o

Agreed, the original theme was pretty serious in tone - it starts quite slowly and it builds up to being grand and epic.

I couldn't always keep up with who was who in JLU. I like DC, but I'm far from an expert on the more obscure heroes, so often I didn't know anything about the characters.

tmntpower1988
09-02-2014, 07:34 AM
Agreed, the original theme was pretty serious in tone - it starts quite slowly and it builds up to being grand and epic.

I couldn't always keep up with who was who in JLU. I like DC, but I'm far from an expert on the more obscure heroes, so often I didn't know anything about the characters.

I didn't really care much for the large amount of heroes in JLU, there was only a handful I liked. Green Arrow was my favourite. Was pissed when they killed off my favourite villain Grodd in the second last episode as well. I was hoping he would have to team up with Justice League in the final episode.

Davetello
09-02-2014, 09:58 AM
I didn't really care much for the large amount of heroes in JLU, there was only a handful I liked. Green Arrow was my favourite. Was pissed when they killed off my favourite villain Grodd in the second last episode as well. I was hoping he would have to team up with Justice League in the final episode.

Yes, Green Arrow was by far the most worthy addition.

Since it relates to the Justice League, have you played the Injustice video game? I bought it on release day last year and have played through the story mode a few times. I have also completed some of S.T.A.R Labs but trying to get 100% seems like too much hassle so i haven't played it in a while.

I'm enjoying these games by NetherRealm. Mortal Kombat 9 had the best story mode I have ever seen in a fighting game - played through it multiple times and enjoyed it immensely. I also enjoyed Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe.

Prowler
09-02-2014, 11:00 AM
Yes, it is worth it, especially if you consider yourself to be a Ninja Turtles fan. The first 4 seasons are definitely worth a watch.

CyberCubed
09-02-2014, 11:43 AM
Yes, it is worth it, especially if you consider yourself to be a Ninja Turtles fan. The first 4 seasons are definitely worth a watch.

I'd say the whole show is worth a watch. Season 5 and 6 are also good, although the final season was the weakest, there are still some good eps there.

Prowler
09-02-2014, 12:16 PM
I'd say the whole show is worth a watch. Season 5 and 6 are also good, although the final season was the weakest, there are still some good eps there.
Sure, but my point is, missing the last 3 seasons isn't much of a big deal while not watching the first four is certainly missing out on some great episodes.

Davetello
09-02-2014, 12:23 PM
Yeah, that's how to sum it up: seasons 5 and 6 are very enjoyable and the latter is underrated. Season 7 is okay and better than claimed too. However, they aren't 'essential'. The first four seasons just seem like the core 2k3 experience - as CC would say, they are required viewing for a turtles fan.

CyberCubed
09-02-2014, 12:35 PM
The ending of Season 4 ties directly into Season 5 though. The last episode of Season 4 literally has the Turtles going into Japan to meet the Ninja Tribunal.

Season 5's finale could have technically been the final episode of the whole show. Demon Shredder and the Mystics were dead, Bishop and Baxter go back to the EPF, Karai and Chaplain seem like they no longer have disdain for the Turtles, and Hun is just treated like comic relief.

You could tell the finale of both Season 3 and 5 were written as possible "series finale's" in case the series didn't get renewed. The show could have ended at the end of either Season 3 or 5 and most stuff would have been wrapped up, however Season 4 ends on a cliffhanger making it not a good stopping point.

I'm also glad we got Season 7, imagine if the show ended with the Turtles still in the future? Good god.

Prowler
09-02-2014, 12:39 PM
Ninja Tribunal was too "anime-like" for my taste. I like anime but Ninja Turtles aren't an anime and they aren't supposed to have super powers. One thing that distinguishes the Turtles from your typical US comic book hero is the lack of superpowers. Kinda like Batman.

The turtles shouldn't even have gone to the future in the first place.

CyberCubed
09-02-2014, 12:43 PM
Ninja Tribunal was too "anime-like" for my taste. I like anime but Ninja Turtles aren't an anime and they aren't supposed to have super powers. One thing that distinguishes the Turtles from your typical US comic book hero is the lack of superpowers. Kinda like Batman.

I didn't mind the anime powers at all, it was only for one season (and they only use the powers in 9 out of the 12 episodes), and it was a fun take.

Otherwise Demon Shredder would have just been a copy of Ch'rell had he not had magical powers and turned into a dragon. I'm not even a big anime fan myself but I liked the powers the Turtles had.

The turtles shouldn't even have gone to the future in the first place.

Can't say I agree on this, FF was a good way to refresh the show, I just wish the animation and tone was kept more similar to the first four seasons.

MrTMNT2012
09-02-2014, 01:19 PM
If Seasons 6 & 7 were at least half-way decent, maybe. Because the first 5 were incredible!

It still has an abysmal ending in my opinion.

CyberCubed
09-02-2014, 01:26 PM
It still has an abysmal ending in my opinion.

The wedding episode and Turtles Forever were both fantastic endings for the series. Its one of the few shows I was completely satisfied with how it ended.

Davetello
09-02-2014, 01:33 PM
The ending of Season 4 ties directly into Season 5 though. The last episode of Season 4 literally has the Turtles going into Japan to meet the Ninja Tribunal.

Season 5's finale could have technically been the final episode of the whole show. Demon Shredder and the Mystics were dead, Bishop and Baxter go back to the EPF, Karai and Chaplain seem like they no longer have disdain for the Turtles, and Hun is just treated like comic relief.

You could tell the finale of both Season 3 and 5 were written as possible "series finale's" in case the series didn't get renewed. The show could have ended at the end of either Season 3 or 5 and most stuff would have been wrapped up, however Season 4 ends on a cliffhanger making it not a good stopping point.

I'm also glad we got Season 7, imagine if the show ended with the Turtles still in the future? Good god.

Lots of good insight. In relation to your point about the cliffhanger ending to season 4 - if it were me recommending the show to people, and they said they had limited time, I would recommend that they watch the first four seasons but omit the final ep of season 4. Donnie's salvation in "Good Genes" is a pretty good way to end the series for anyone who won't watch beyond season 4, for whatever reason. It has a lovely family feel to it, and in a way it ties into "TMNT" thematically with the family thing (even though they are different universes). There would be no point in watching the final episode of season 4, and I'd make sure they knew not to unless they had time to continue into season 5.

I loved the Ninja Tribunal season though.

CyberCubed
09-02-2014, 02:30 PM
Yeah my only real problem with Season 5 was the lack of development and focus for the human acolytes. Only Adam and Joy even had a slight bit of personality, the other two were incredibly bland. They ultimately served little purpose other than being the ones to finish off the Foot Mystics.

Davetello
09-02-2014, 02:44 PM
Yeah my only real problem with Season 5 was the lack of development and focus for the human acolytes. Only Adam and Joy even had a slight bit of personality, the other two were incredibly bland. They ultimately served little purpose other than being the ones to finish off the Foot Mystics.

Yeah, I have seen you say that before and I agree. As you've also said, 26 episodes would have given more time for character development. They were intended to be a 'friend' to each individual turtle but there just wasn't enough development. We weren't even sure why each turtle paired off with each person, other than the fact that they probably loosely mirrored the respective turtle's personalities.

I suppose they had to be in the show though as it wouldn't be very believable if the turtles were the only beings on Earth considered worthy of training as acolytes.

CyberCubed
09-02-2014, 03:31 PM
I suppose they had to be in the show though as it wouldn't be very believable if the turtles were the only beings on Earth considered worthy of training as acolytes.

I'm honestly surprised characters like Karai and Bishop weren't chosen by the tribunal to be acolytes. Instead of making 4 new human characters who did very little, the writers could have used the established cast.

Considering the big role Karai and Bishop play in the finale too, it would have made sense if they were chosen. Also seeing Karai and Bishop work alongside the Turtles despite being former enemies would have been nice growth.

I mean if they wanted to choose the most powerful humans on the planet, why not Bishop? Why not Karai?

Davetello
09-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I'm honestly surprised characters like Karai and Bishop weren't chosen by the tribunal to be acolytes. Instead of making 4 new human characters who did very little, the writers could have used the established cast.

Considering the big role Karai and Bishop play in the finale too, it would have made sense if they were chosen. Also seeing Karai and Bishop work alongside the Turtles despite being former enemies would have been nice growth.

I mean if they wanted to choose the most powerful humans on the planet, why not Bishop? Why not Karai?

The tribunal will have put lots of thought and preparation into things. They will probably have been worried about the potentially catastrophic results of enemies teaming up. It's an explosive cocktail.

Bishop and the turtles worked together in "Good Genes" but that was out of necessity. They still hated each other. Karai was still harboring animosity towards the turtles over Ch'rell's exile at that point. It could certainly have made the season more entertaining and dramatic, but casting them as acolytes wouldn't have made sense imo. Examining the relationship between enemies would have been an interesting treatment of the characters. But ultimately whenever anything went wrong we'd all be saying "why did they even select Bishop and Karai in the first place? It was such a risk given their animosity with the turtles". Yeah, we saw them work together in the finale to great effect, but hindsight is fantastic. In saying that it's implied in the finale that the tribunal has some sort of psychic abilities (like rejecting Yoshi's pleas for help because his demise would set in motion the events which led to their acolytes being created).

Besides, by the season's climax people are aware of the full gravity of the situation. The turtles make it very clear to the others that the Tengu Shredder is the real fvcking deal and a greater challenge than anything they have ever encountered. At the start of the season the acolytes don't really know what they're in for and because of this the turtles, Bishop and Karai wouldn't have had any immediate solidarity.

The whole season would have been built on foundations of sand. On the other hand, perhaps this one was as well as there's no way that the human acolytes were more worthy candidates than the likes of Karai and Bishop. But I suppose you can give it more credence by my point above - yeah, they're not as talented or intelligent as those two, but they're far more likely to develop a good relationship and teamwork with the turtles.

tmntpower1988
09-02-2014, 05:39 PM
Yes, Green Arrow was by far the most worthy addition.

Since it relates to the Justice League, have you played the Injustice video game? I bought it on release day last year and have played through the story mode a few times. I have also completed some of S.T.A.R Labs but trying to get 100% seems like too much hassle so i haven't played it in a while.

I'm enjoying these games by NetherRealm. Mortal Kombat 9 had the best story mode I have ever seen in a fighting game - played through it multiple times and enjoyed it immensely. I also enjoyed Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe.

Never played Injustice before, was planning on getting the game in the next month or so. Yeah Mortal Kombat 9 is great, my favourite MK game. I got Justice League Heroes for the PS2 the other day, haven't played it yet though, it looks alright in the gameplay videos I've seen on Youtube. Looks similar to the Marvel Ultimate Alliance games.

Have you seen Batman The Brave and the Bold? I've seen a few clips of it, some times it looks sort of serious then other times it looks like a goofy comedy. I was thinking about getting them on DVD, I did find some of the clips hilarious. It's good to see some of the characters from Justice League back again even if the show is like a parody.

Davetello
09-02-2014, 05:45 PM
Never played Injustice before, was planning on getting the game in the next month or so. Yeah Mortal Kombat 9 is great, my favourite MK game. I got Justice League Heroes for the PS2 the other day, haven't played it yet though, it looks alright in the gameplay videos I've seen on Youtube. Looks similar to the Marvel Ultimate Alliance games.

Have you seen Batman The Brave and the Bold? I've seen a few clips of it, some times it looks sort of serious then other times it looks like a goofy comedy. I was thinking about getting them on DVD, I did find some of the clips hilarious. It's good to see some of the characters from Justice League back again even if the show is like a parody.

Justice League Heroes is a game which I planned to buy, but never got round to. I might get it cheap for the Xbox in future. I'd like to play the Ultimate Alliance games as well - just never got around to it. In terms of recent Marvel games I really enjoyed Shattered Dimensions and I'm a rare person who really liked Edge of Time - got it from the library and completed it in a few nights. I loved the 2099 Spiderman and that game actually prompted me to buy SD, even though it came out before Edge of Time. EoT received poor reviews but that can be misleading. I'm thinking about buying the Lego Marvel game too.

Nah, I've never seen that show. Looks alright but I think The Batman (08 show) is higher on my priority list as I have only seen one season of that show and really enjoyed it. If you like the look of TBATB you should certainly buy it. Who knows, it might even be on Netflix if you have that.

I have an appointment in the morning and as you know it's late on our side of the Atlantic, so I am gonna go to bed mate. If you wanna talk about these things some more best to PM me so we don't derail the thread. :)

Night.

RaphaelinSTL
09-02-2014, 09:23 PM
I've been hearing for a long time that the 2003 series was actually better then it should have been. And while it's hard to find whole seasons now, was it really that good?

Yes. It's damn good.

Leo656
09-02-2014, 09:50 PM
Just chipping in that Justice League Heroes is a pretty decent game; still haven't gotten around to playing the Ultimate Alliance games, but Heroes is kind of similar to the precursor series, X-Men Legends, with fewer on-screen playable characters (two in JLH instead of four in XML/MUA) and a little less of the RPG elements. Kind of more of a beat-'em-up, and it's really short and linear, but it's a fun weekender. New Game + and some unlockable costumes add a little replay value. No reason not to check it out, it could be beaten inside a day if you wanted to. I still mess with it once in a while. There's a hundred "better" games in the exact same style/genre, but given how few really good DC games there are to begin with, a fan can't go wrong. :)

THGhost
09-03-2014, 07:12 AM
I've been hearing for a long time that the 2003 series was actually better then it should have been. And while it's hard to find whole seasons now, was it really that good?

Absolutely!

tmntpower1988
09-05-2014, 11:33 PM
2k3 is by far the best of the 3 series, I was surprised at how good the show was when I first watched it. Was blown away by it. Loved every minute of it and didn't want the show to end.

IndigoErth
09-06-2014, 12:11 AM
I've been hearing for a long time that the 2003 series was actually better then it should have been. And while it's hard to find whole seasons now, was it really that good?
Started in on the last season last night. Yeah I dunno about some of the changes made in the late end of the series, and there's some things I'm kinda 'eh' on, but collectively I've liked it better than I expected. Having watched Turtles Forever before ever seeing this series did not set me up with high hopes of these Turtles... but I see now that 'movie,' while playing the original series guys for fools also played this set for jerks that they don't otherwise seem to be in the series.

Leo's definitely a heavy hitter in this one, though where my fandom sits I can't say I mind too much (lol), esp not after the first series never really doing a whole lot with him. (Do wish his mad phase would have been shorter though.)

Ultimately I'm not much of a critic... I like all three series just fine. :)

CyberCubed
09-06-2014, 07:29 AM
The only weaker season is the very last one, BTTS. Both Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward have many great episodes, as long as you don't mind there being a "gimmick" to both seasons, the first with mystical anime powers and the second in the future.

Coola Yagami
09-06-2014, 09:16 AM
The only weaker season is the very last one, BTTS. Both Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward have many great episodes, as long as you don't mind there being a "gimmick" to both seasons, the first with mystical anime powers and the second in the future.

Actually liked btts more than ff due to it coming back to fighting the foot and the purple dragons. Fast forward was one season too long. Could have just been a 3 part or even 5 part episode. But a while season? No thanks.

CyberCubed
09-06-2014, 09:26 AM
Actually liked btts more than ff due to it coming back to fighting the foot and the purple dragons. Fast forward was one season too long. Could have just been a 3 part or even 5 part episode. But a while season? No thanks.

They had enough villain material for a full season.

Coola Yagami
09-06-2014, 11:03 AM
They had enough villain material for a full season.

That I didn't care about. The only major threat was shkonabo and again, that day of reckoning and evil tmnt clones all could have been a 5 parter.

You don't just sidetrack a show for a season and get rid of ALL of the supporting cast.

Monte Williams
09-06-2014, 11:56 AM
I only ever saw a clip here and there during the original broadcast run, and man what a tantalizing teaser each scene proved to be. I had a vague but persistent sense that the 2003 animated series was a high-water mark for the franchise and for action animation in general.

I've more recently watched the first ten episodes or so and a few random episodes, including "Same As It Never Was".

...and the show doesn't quite work for me.

The best way I can explain it is this:

It is a show that's easy to admire, but difficult to enjoy.

Pros: It dares to take its premise and its characters seriously. It is stylish and mostly animated well. It is largely loyal to the original comics.

Cons: It takes itself too seriously, and for want of moments when the show invites the viewer to laugh with it, the viewer instead finds himself too-frequently laughing at it. For example, the turtle-themed slang that serves as substitutions for swearing; "What the shell?" and the like. If these goofy phrases were used for comedic effect they would be fine, but they are used for dramatic effect... and they are used over and over again. It's distractingly earnest and silly.

Ultimately, the series lacks personality. I think its most enthusiastic fans are those who grew up with it, who have the benefit of nostalgia, and those who place an inordinate amount of importance on the extent to which a given iteration of the franchise follows the Mirage comics template.

CyberCubed
09-06-2014, 12:11 PM
That I didn't care about. The only major threat was shkonabo and again, that day of reckoning and evil tmnt clones all could have been a 5 parter.

You don't just sidetrack a show for a season and get rid of ALL of the supporting cast.

The entire cast had run their course by the end of Season 5. Karai and Bishop were done and we saw more of Hun in the last season. Casey and April had run their course too with the writers barely doing anything with them towards the end.

FF villains were some of the shows best.

RaphaelinSTL
09-06-2014, 12:24 PM
Ultimately, the series lacks personality. I think its most enthusiastic fans are those who grew up with it, who have the benefit of nostalgia, and those who place an inordinate amount of importance on the extent to which a given iteration of the franchise follows the Mirage comics template.

You make logical points but right here is where I have to disagree with you. The writing and pacing of this series gave it one of the most unique personalities of any cartoon series at the time and it still has a vibe and tone to it that IMO only the original Batman Animated Series can match.

Coola Yagami
09-06-2014, 01:07 PM
The entire cast had run their course by the end of Season 5. Karai and Bishop were done and we saw more of Hun in the last season. Casey and April had run their course too with the writers barely doing anything with them towards the end.

FF villains were some of the shows best.


If the entire cast has run their course..... then it's time to end the show, isn't it?

It's the writers job to continue the story somehow. It's not like Baxter, Karai, Bishop and Hun have announced their retirement and will promise to never ever do any evil every again. Hell, the city being nearly destroyed by Demon Shredder left it vulnerable for the crime bosses to take over.


As for the show's villains.... aside from the evil TMNT, I didn't care for the FF villain crew when compared to the more established TMNT villain crew.

Monte Williams
09-06-2014, 01:27 PM
You make logical points but right here is where I have to disagree with you. The writing and pacing of this series gave it one of the most unique personalities of any cartoon series at the time and it still has a vibe and tone to it that IMO only the original Batman Animated Series can match.

I found the drama and darkness and menace of Batman the Animated Series much more compelling and credible and convincing. But perhaps I chose my words poorly, 'cause the 2003 series certainly does have a distinct tone and aesthetic. Maybe "personality" isn't the right word. It lacked... character? Is that the word I'm looking for?

Again, I admire that it took itself seriously, but it seems to me that it forgot to be fun. I don't need it to be dumb, or even zany or whatever. But it wasn't very fun or engaging, for me.

CyberCubed
09-06-2014, 02:28 PM
If the entire cast has run their course..... then it's time to end the show, isn't it?

It's the writers job to continue the story somehow. It's not like Baxter, Karai, Bishop and Hun have announced their retirement and will promise to never ever do any evil every again. Hell, the city being nearly destroyed by Demon Shredder left it vulnerable for the crime bosses to take over.


As for the show's villains.... aside from the evil TMNT, I didn't care for the FF villain crew when compared to the more established TMNT villain crew.

Karai and Bishop were done. Baxter was done. They got their final runs in Turtles Forever and Fast Forward. The writers made it clear their character arcs had been finished.

Hun was the only character whose story was still going and we saw that finished in the last season.

Coola Yagami
09-06-2014, 03:31 PM
Karai and Bishop were done. Baxter was done. They got their final runs in Turtles Forever and Fast Forward.

So basically skip the last 2 seasons and go straight to Turtles Forever. Got it.

I don't think bishop turned in his badge. Nor do I think Karai disbanded the foot. They could have made fast forward into 5 eps them back to the sewers. Then end it with the shredder wars. Throw in some filler with shoate, carnage (with a redesign), radical, and braunze. Maybe even adopt the gang wars story and toss in cha ocho too.

CyberCubed
09-06-2014, 07:00 PM
So basically skip the last 2 seasons and go straight to Turtles Forever. Got it.

I don't think bishop turned in his badge. Nor do I think Karai disbanded the foot. They could have made fast forward into 5 eps them back to the sewers. Then end it with the shredder wars. Throw in some filler with shoate, carnage (with a redesign), radical, and braunze. Maybe even adopt the gang wars story and toss in cha ocho too.

Are you actually being serious? Karai was done. That's why she's not with the Foot and Khan takes it over in Season 7, I imagine she and Chaplain left the Foot Clan after Demon Shredder was killed. The only reason Karai returns after is because of Ch'rell.

Bishop was done. He goes back to the EPF protecting Earth from aliens/demons/whatever, and in FF we see him become the President of Earth. Baxter was also done, as he also went through so many forms there was nothing else to do with him. His FF gave him closure.

Hun and the Purple Dragons continued into BTTS because there will always be crime and street punks in NYC. But even as seen with BTTS, there wasn't much Hun did there that wasn't a retread of what he had already been doing.

Aside from that, all the other secondary villains were either dead or done away with, aside from Rat King, who really should have gotten a second episode at some point but never did. Why do you think the BTTS season didn't even have many villains to use? Khan was like the only "new" character and he was probably one of the Elite Guard anyway.

The FF cast, particularly Shokonobo, Viral, Torbin Zixx, Boss Zukko the Triceraton gang leader, the Inuwashi Gunjin, Jammerhead were all great or interesting new villains. Only Triple Threat the 3-headed guy sucked. Even the Dark Turtles and Dun had untapped potential.

Netkeeper
09-06-2014, 07:07 PM
For example, the turtle-themed slang that serves as substitutions for swearing; "What the shell?" and the like. If these goofy phrases were used for comedic effect they would be fine, but they are used for dramatic effect... and they are used over and over again. It's distractingly earnest and silly.
I'm reasonably sure those phrases are there to remind the viewer that the writers do realise the premise is silly. The use of those puns is very silly. It's the exact same thing as the horse puns in My Little Pony. They're just there because puns are fun.

Monte Williams
09-06-2014, 08:56 PM
I'm reasonably sure those phrases are there to remind the viewer that the writers do realise the premise is silly. The use of those puns is very silly. It's the exact same thing as the horse puns in My Little Pony. They're just there because puns are fun.

Initially I thought so, too, but those phrases are all over "Same As It Never Was", for example, and that's obviously not a lighthearted treatment of the premise.

Coola Yagami
09-06-2014, 11:46 PM
Are you actually being serious? Karai was done. That's why she's not with the Foot and Khan takes it over in Season 7, I imagine she and Chaplain left the Foot Clan after Demon Shredder was killed. The only reason Karai returns after is because of Ch'rell.

Bishop was done. He goes back to the EPF protecting Earth from aliens/demons/whatever, and in FF we see him become the President of Earth. Baxter was also done, as he also went through so many forms there was nothing else to do with him. His FF gave him closure.

Hun and the Purple Dragons continued into BTTS because there will always be crime and street punks in NYC. But even as seen with BTTS, there wasn't much Hun did there that wasn't a retread of what he had already been doing.

Aside from that, all the other secondary villains were either dead or done away with, aside from Rat King, who really should have gotten a second episode at some point but never did. Why do you think the BTTS season didn't even have many villains to use? Khan was like the only "new" character and he was probably one of the Elite Guard anyway.

The FF cast, particularly Shokonobo, Viral, Torbin Zixx, Boss Zukko the Triceraton gang leader, the Inuwashi Gunjin, Jammerhead were all great or interesting new villains. Only Triple Threat the 3-headed guy sucked. Even the Dark Turtles and Dun had untapped potential.

I found them all boring, except the Dark Turtles and Sh'Konabo.

And yes, I forgot about the Rat King. We needed stuff like that. Another Rat King episode. Karai challenging Khan over leadership of the Foot. I mean honestly, you kinda can't walk away from the Foot.... and if Karai was the sole leader and she left... well that would basically cause another City at War all over again. Seeing how Khan rose to power would have been nice. And again, Choate, Radical, Carnage, Braunze, Cha Ocho. Another Usagi episode. There was still stuff they could have done without having to resort to gimmicks.

RaphaelinSTL
09-07-2014, 01:10 AM
I found the drama and darkness and menace of Batman the Animated Series much more compelling and credible and convincing. But perhaps I chose my words poorly, 'cause the 2003 series certainly does have a distinct tone and aesthetic. Maybe "personality" isn't the right word. It lacked... character? Is that the word I'm looking for?

Again, I admire that it took itself seriously, but it seems to me that it forgot to be fun. I don't need it to be dumb, or even zany or whatever. But it wasn't very fun or engaging, for me.

To each their own I suppose.

I guess I just found a tone that felt more mature and serious in nature was just as fun as it was something different and a breath of fresh air to the franchise when it needed it most. Like you said, it didn't have to be zany or silly...it was it's own different kind of animal and I loved it for that.

tmntpower1988
09-07-2014, 01:58 AM
As for the show's villains.... aside from the evil TMNT, I didn't care for the FF villain crew when compared to the more established TMNT villain crew.

I agree Triple Threat was awful and I thought Jammerhead was annoying. There's times where I just wanted to slap Zixx too.

Started in on the last season last night. Yeah I dunno about some of the changes made in the late end of the series, and there's some things I'm kinda 'eh' on, but collectively I've liked it better than I expected. Having watched Turtles Forever before ever seeing this series did not set me up with high hopes of these Turtles... but I see now that 'movie,' while playing the original series guys for fools also played this set for jerks that they don't otherwise seem to be in the series.

I noticed that in Turtles Forever the 2003 turtles were jerks, especially Raph. You know something is wrong when even 2k3 Mikey tells the 80s turtles to be serious lol Thankfully they weren't like that in the series.

To each their own I suppose.

I guess I just found a tone that felt more mature and serious in nature was just as fun as it was something different and a breath of fresh air to the franchise when it needed it most. Like you said, it didn't have to be zany or silly...it was it's own different kind of animal and I loved it for that.

I prefer shows to have a more darker serious tone, that's why I prefer 2k3 over OT and Nick. 2k3 did have it's funny moments though.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 07:18 AM
I found them all boring, except the Dark Turtles and Sh'Konabo.

Your loss. I'll take Boss Zukko, Zixx, the Inuwashi Gunjin over crap like Nano/Garbageman, etc. anyday.

The best part of FF were the villains, also because Karai/Hun/Bishop/Baxter had been done to death by that point too.

LeotheLateBloomer
09-07-2014, 09:02 AM
I agree Triple Threat was awful and I thought Jammerhead was annoying. There's times where I just wanted to slap Zixx too.


I noticed that in Turtles Forever the 2003 turtles were jerks, especially Raph. You know something is wrong when even 2k3 Mikey tells the 80s turtles to be serious lol Thankfully they weren't like that in the series.


I prefer shows to have a more darker serious tone, that's why I prefer 2k3 over OT and Nick. 2k3 did have it's funny moments though.

Only Raph was a jerk to them. Leo was indifferent towards them, Donnie thought his counterpart's method of inventing was rather silly, and Mikey thought they were cool at first but annoying later.

I prefer 2k3 over OT and Nick as well because it's closer to the comics and I think it does a better job fleshing out the characters.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 09:43 AM
Your loss. I'll take Boss Zukko, Zixx, the Inuwashi Gunjin over crap like Nano/Garbageman, etc. anyday.

The best part of FF were the villains, also because Karai/Hun/Bishop/Baxter had been done to death by that point too.

Not really my loss since I just don't care.

And that's kinda unfair. I can also say that I'd take Karai and Bishop over Triple Threat and the Collector anyday too.

And again, it's up to the writers to find new twists and turns for the story to go. Karai leaving the Foot would have started a City at War all over again. Let's see Khan actually rise in power. And let's get some more Mirage stuff in there. It's what the series started on, the farther its focus went away from that the worse it got.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 09:57 AM
Not really my loss since I just don't care.

And that's kinda unfair. I can also say that I'd take Karai and Bishop over Triple Threat and the Collector anyday too.

And again, it's up to the writers to find new twists and turns for the story to go. Karai leaving the Foot would have started a City at War all over again. Let's see Khan actually rise in power. And let's get some more Mirage stuff in there. It's what the series started on, the farther its focus went away from that the worse it got.

Why do you keep going on about Karai? Her character was done.

Cure
09-07-2014, 11:00 AM
You have some nerve to ask someone why they would keep going on about anything considering you're the worst at it.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 12:26 PM
Why do you keep going on about Karai? Her character was done.

Cause one can't just.... 'leave the Foot'. If anything Kahn would have sent the Foot after her to rub her out. Even with her gone, the Foot would still seek out the Turtles for revenge ala Mirage. There was still good stories left to do without having to resort to stupid gimmicks.

Edit- someone should really do a pic of Shredder or Karai with that meme 'one does not simply... leave the Foot'

Technogeek29
09-07-2014, 02:15 PM
Only Raph was a jerk to them. Leo was indifferent towards them, Donnie thought his counterpart's method of inventing was rather silly, and Mikey thought they were cool at first but annoying later.

I prefer 2k3 over OT and Nick as well because it's closer to the comics and I think it does a better job fleshing out the characters.

Now to it's credit, Nick does a very good job at fleshing out it's characters. It's the filler episodes that ruin them actually. And the over abundance of filler episodes certainly don't help.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 03:16 PM
Cause one can't just.... 'leave the Foot'. If anything Kahn would have sent the Foot after her to rub her out. Even with her gone, the Foot would still seek out the Turtles for revenge ala Mirage. There was still good stories left to do without having to resort to stupid gimmicks.

Edit- someone should really do a pic of Shredder or Karai with that meme 'one does not simply... leave the Foot'

Karai and Chaplain left the Foot. Khan who might have been one of the Elite Guards tried to lead them. We saw enough of Karai.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 03:38 PM
Karai and Chaplain left the Foot. Khan who might have been one of the Elite Guards tried to lead them.

And send the foot out to kill Karai and Chaplin.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 05:23 PM
And send the foot out to kill Karai and Chaplin.

The Elite Guard were loyal to Karai. 3 of them died against the Demon Shredder. Khan wouldn't have any reason to hunt Karai when he risked his life to save her.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 05:33 PM
The Elite Guard were loyal to Karai. 3 of them died against the Demon Shredder. Khan wouldn't have any reason to hunt Karai when he risked his life to save her.

What if Khan was secretly biding his time waiting for the right moment to take over. To ensure no one short of shredder would ever step in to take power away from him, he'd have Karai and Chaplin killed. Plus still has bishop to deal with. They totally dodged the fact that the turtles couldn't mess with him too much after knowing he becomes good in the future. Then like I said we still have people like radical, carnage, choate and braunze to throw in there. And more rat king. Have the dark tmnt follow them to the past to further flesh out their story.

There's so much that could have been done without resorting to gimmicks.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 06:03 PM
The only gimmick that was lame was the cyber world gimmick in the last season. I liked the anime powers and future elements .

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 06:14 PM
The only gimmick that was lame was the cyber world gimmick in the last season. I liked the anime powers and future elements .

Whatever man. Agree to disagree. The final battle with the Shredder shouldn't involve the turtles turning into dragons. It's like the big wigs realized 'wait... the turtles don't really have any actual super powers do they? let's fix that'. Fast Forward was a waste. BTTS was also bad but at least it brought back the regular cast.

TheSkeletonMan939
09-07-2014, 06:17 PM
I agree that Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward aren't what you might call the high points of the show, but I have to admire the writers trying to change things up. How boring would it be if every season was about the turtles having little adventures in New York (i.e. seasons one and two)?

I'm not saying seasons one and two were BAD, I'm saying that it would have been boring to just see them just do the same sort of stuff every season.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 06:17 PM
Whatever man. Agree to disagree. The final battle with the Shredder shouldn't involve the turtles turning into dragons. It's like the big wigs realized 'wait... the turtles don't really have any actual super powers do they? let's fix that'. Fast Forward was a waste. BTTS was also bad but at least it brought back the regular cast.

Lol, no. They fought Ch'rell as ninja's we don't need Demon Shredder being a carbon copy of him in battle. FF wasn't a waste because it refreshed the show with good villains, new plots and amazing twists. While it was toned down a bit it still had enough good writing to pull it through.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 06:21 PM
Lol, no. They fought Ch'rell as ninja's we don't need Demon Shredder being a carbon copy of him in battle. FF wasn't a waste because it refreshed the show with good villains, new plots and amazing twists. While it was toned down a bit it still had enough good writing to pull it through.

Like I said... just didn't like it. Only things I could stand were Sh'Konabo and the Dark TMNT and again, all of that could have been a 5 parter. Besides, the turtles have all kinds of adventures through time and space, other dimensions, and even Northampton. They don't have to stay in New York. Again, it's the job of the writers to make it interesting. Maybe you can't think of how to extend the series... but you're not the ones being paid to come up with new storylines.

IndigoErth
09-07-2014, 07:15 PM
Finished...

Tribunal was ok, though seemed like they were trying to appeal to a different crowd a little - a bit 'eh' on some themes but got into it pretty well. Fast Forward, yeah that art style...bleh. Stories were fairly good, though found most of the villains annoying...and then that one and the robot followed them into the final season.. noooooo. Don't mind that they gave them visible eyes, I prefer it that way but in this case it looked weird, either too big or maybe too detailed in color while the art style/coloration had otherwise become so flat.

D'aww... didn't realize an April/Casey wedding actually exists. Too bad the guys aren't seen involved in the actual ceremony. (Why are they off to the side and not at least sitting in the front row? *lip pout*) TMNT in tuxes though, aww... Too bad the art style wasn't that of the older seasons.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 07:49 PM
Like I said... just didn't like it. Only things I could stand were Sh'Konabo and the Dark TMNT and again, all of that could have been a 5 parter. Besides, the turtles have all kinds of adventures through time and space, other dimensions, and even Northampton. They don't have to stay in New York. Again, it's the job of the writers to make it interesting. Maybe you can't think of how to extend the series... but you're not the ones being paid to come up with new storylines.

Your loss. Some of the best episodes of the shows run were in FF and with some slight tweaks they could have fit in with the earlier seasons just fine.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 08:07 PM
Your loss. Some of the best episodes of the shows run were in FF and with some slight tweaks they could have fit in with the earlier seasons just fine.

Not really my loss cause I don't care. Didn't care for the change of tone either. And the lack of multi-parters. It's like turning a kid's show... into more of a kid's show... It's like Red Sky, in reverse. Just no thanks.

Those 'best episodes' could been part of a 5-parter.

Zog
09-07-2014, 08:10 PM
Is this series worth watching? Absolutely. I am fan of the 80's toon, the first two movies and even the most recent movie was alright but the 03' series in my opinion is the best incarnation of the turtles for me. I've been reading the IDW comics, 14 issues in, and I do like it so far it's a nice change to origin a bit. I've heard some good things about the Nick series so I've started watching that, 17 episodes in, and I think it's ok.

I may end up liking the IDW comics or the Nick series better, probably not, but who knows I'm open to it. Still, I think the 03' series is best. Even Laird has said that the 2k3 series was the closest version of the turtles to his vision, written in the TMNT ultimate visual history book. While I love the whole series, seasons 1-4 are truly the highlights. FF and BTTS were ok in comparison.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 09:04 PM
Not really my loss cause I don't care. Didn't care for the change of tone either. And the lack of multi-parters. It's like turning a kid's show... into more of a kid's show... It's like Red Sky, in reverse. Just no thanks.

Those 'best episodes' could been part of a 5-parter.

And...you're wrong on that. Lack of multi-parters? The entire season has three season long story arcs with Shoko'nobo, Darius, Torbin Zixx/Zukko, let alone Bishop and recurring characters like Jammerhead and the Gunjin.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 09:49 PM
Recurring characters does not a multi-parter make. I think Day of Reckoning was the only 2 parter in the whole thing.

Literally aside from the art style and btts design changes, you can skip these last two seasons and go right into Turtles Forever without really missing anything.

CyberCubed
09-07-2014, 09:57 PM
Recurring characters does not a multi-parter make. I think Day of Reckoning was the only 2 parter in the whole thing.

Literally aside from the art style and btts design changes, you can skip these last two seasons and go right into Turtles Forever without really missing anything.

I made the same point about Season 3. You can technically stop watching at the end of Season 3 after Ch'rell gets exiled and not watch anything after and it feels like the show ended.

The writers wrote both Seasons 3 and 5 as possible "series finale's" just in case the series didn't get renewed for more seasons. That's why they feel like series enders, meanwhile Seasons 4 and 6 were written with the knowledge they would get another season.

tmntpower1988
09-08-2014, 05:39 AM
Only Raph was a jerk to them. Leo was indifferent towards them, Donnie thought his counterpart's method of inventing was rather silly, and Mikey thought they were cool at first but annoying later.

I wish they made the 80s turtles more serious like the way they were in the red sky episodes. It was hilarious the way the Mirage turtles scared the sh*t out of Ch'rell lol I wish there was a fight with Mirage Shredder as well instead of him being knocked off the building with rubbish as soon as he appears lol

I agree that Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward aren't what you might call the high points of the show, but I have to admire the writers trying to change things up. How boring would it be if every season was about the turtles having little adventures in New York (i.e. seasons one and two)?

I'm not saying seasons one and two were BAD, I'm saying that it would have been boring to just see them just do the same sort of stuff every season.

I agree with this 100%.

CyberCubed
09-08-2014, 07:25 AM
Obviously the first four seasons were the best. However I really do like Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward almost as much. FF isn't as good as Season 5 but since it has more episodes there was a bit more to enjoy since it had more recurring characters.

Examples of great Fast Forward episodes that are just as good as the 2k3 run:

Timing is Everything (time travel paradox ep with Shredder)
DNA is Thicker than Water (Dark Turtles final episode
Head of State (Baxter returns and great Bishop episode)
Bishop to Knight (first Bishop and Zixx episode)
The Day of Awakening (Finale episode)
Milk Run (Excellent episode with Boss Zukko the Triceraton)
Fly me to the Moon (Inuwashi Gunjin's second episode)
The Fall of Darius Dunn (Darius trying to kill Cody)

I loved those episodes, however I also find the Jammerhead episodes funny and the others are pretty average too. The only episodes I really hate are the 3 Triple Threat episodes, since his episodes were awful.

Hakase
09-17-2014, 08:21 PM
This show is pretty good. I stopped right after the Ninja Tribunal, since Fast Forward, doesn't look that great. I love the voice actors, even though Splinter's was a bit lacking. I think Leonardo got super obnoxious, during season 4, even though he is still my favorite turtle.

CyberCubed
09-17-2014, 09:01 PM
This show is pretty good. I stopped right after the Ninja Tribunal, since Fast Forward, doesn't look that great. I love the voice actors, even though Splinter's was a bit lacking. I think Leonardo got super obnoxious, during season 4, even though he is still my favorite turtle.

Why would you stop before even watching Fast Forward? Most of it is good and not watching the whole show through once is ridiculous.

Hakase
09-17-2014, 10:55 PM
Why would you stop before even watching Fast Forward? Most of it is good and not watching the whole show through once is ridiculous.

I watched the first three episodes and it didn't really appeal to me. That's all

CyberCubed
09-18-2014, 12:28 AM
I watched the first three episodes and it didn't really appeal to me. That's all

What didn't appeal to you? Also FF gets better as it goes on. Why you wouldn't watch the whole thing and finish the show up properly is beyond me.

Hakase
09-18-2014, 12:55 AM
What didn't appeal to you? Also FF gets better as it goes on. Why you wouldn't watch the whole thing and finish the show up properly is beyond me.

I didn't like Cody, the redesign, the concept of them being in the future, and the tone. I'll probably give another chance, when I have more free time.

Monte Williams
09-18-2014, 04:50 PM
Why you wouldn't watch the whole thing and finish the show up properly is beyond me.

Not to speak for anyone else, but certainly I for one feel no compulsion or obligation to dedicate my time to something I do not enjoy.

Netkeeper
09-18-2014, 05:28 PM
Obviously the first four seasons were the best. However I really do like Ninja Tribunal and Fast Forward almost as much. FF isn't as good as Season 5 but since it has more episodes there was a bit more to enjoy since it had more recurring characters.

Examples of great Fast Forward episodes that are just as good as the 2k3 run:

Timing is Everything (time travel paradox ep with Shredder)
DNA is Thicker than Water (Dark Turtles final episode
Head of State (Baxter returns and great Bishop episode)
Bishop to Knight (first Bishop and Zixx episode)
The Day of Awakening (Finale episode)
Milk Run (Excellent episode with Boss Zukko the Triceraton)
Fly me to the Moon (Inuwashi Gunjin's second episode)
The Fall of Darius Dunn (Darius trying to kill Cody)

I loved those episodes, however I also find the Jammerhead episodes funny and the others are pretty average too. The only episodes I really hate are the 3 Triple Threat episodes, since his episodes were awful.
I recently watched Timing is Everything since I've heard it was one of the better FF episodes.

It was watchable and I was surprised by that, but I wouldn't call it on par with the first five seasons. It was still pretty dumb, just because of all the time travelling.

Just don't mess with time travel. Don't do it...

THGhost
09-18-2014, 07:57 PM
What didn't appeal to you? Also FF gets better as it goes on. Why you wouldn't watch the whole thing and finish the show up properly is beyond me.

Because if you don't like something right away and don't see it improving, why continue with it? I'm not saying FF is bad, it just pales in comparison to the rest of the show. It's like the European Vacation of the 2K3 series (which I also enjoyed, but it wasn't as good).

Netkeeper
09-18-2014, 08:23 PM
Yeah. FF and BTTS didn't live up to the rest of the 2k3 standard, so I didn't watch them. I didn't want to remember 2k3 that way. I wanted to remember it as the best western animation I've ever seen. And I do.

THGhost
09-19-2014, 08:06 AM
Yeah. FF and BTTS didn't live up to the rest of the 2k3 standard, so I didn't watch them. I didn't want to remember 2k3 that way. I wanted to remember it as the best western animation I've ever seen. And I do.

I don't remember much of BTTS, but I remember its theme song. That thing is badass. :tcool:

CyberCubed
09-19-2014, 11:43 PM
I recently watched Timing is Everything since I've heard it was one of the better FF episodes.

It was watchable and I was surprised by that, but I wouldn't call it on par with the first five seasons. It was still pretty dumb, just because of all the time travelling.

Just don't mess with time travel. Don't do it...

Timing is Everything was the best time travel paradox episode the show did. Sounds like you can't appreciate time paradox's which were done right.

And it was definitely on par with the first 5 seasons, sans the animation.

Netkeeper
09-20-2014, 03:04 AM
It wasn't done right, are you kidding me? :lol:

I generally don't like time travel at all, really, because it's pretty much never done right.

CyberCubed
09-20-2014, 10:41 AM
It wasn't done right, are you kidding me? :lol:

I generally don't like time travel at all, really, because it's pretty much never done right.

Not done right? The whole paradox time travel was done perfectly. What exactly are you refering to?

Coola Yagami
09-20-2014, 11:38 AM
Timing is Everything was the best time travel paradox episode the show did. Sounds like you can't appreciate time paradox's which were done right.

And it was definitely on par with the first 5 seasons, sans the animation.

Except it wasn't. Trying to change if to a more childish tone was NOT the way to go.

CyberCubed
09-20-2014, 12:49 PM
Except it wasn't. Trying to change if to a more childish tone was NOT the way to go.

What was childish? FF? I still don't see what was "childish" about it outside of Mike's personality getting more exaggerated (which was already happening after Season 2), and the brighter color pallette of the show.

Darius Dun killed Cody's parents. The Turtles kill Shoko'nobo by batting a grenade in his mouth and it exploding. Dark Leo almost got killed by a laser and the Turtles nursed him back to health. Baxter tries to extract Bishop's brain from his body while he's still alive to kill him and steal his body. Torbin Zixx smuggles weapons/bombs in containers to help war fanatics.

FF had plenty of dark moments.

Netkeeper
09-20-2014, 01:35 PM
Not done right? The whole paradox time travel was done perfectly. What exactly are you refering to?
The part with Leo and the Shredder, mainly. That would have caused some issues and it really broke my willing suspension of disbelief.

CyberCubed
09-20-2014, 01:36 PM
The part with Leo and the Shredder, mainly. That would have caused some issues and it really broke my willing suspension of disbelief.

You can read the review thread from when that episode originally aired, I don't remember people having a problem with that.

Coola Yagami
09-20-2014, 02:10 PM
The part with Leo and the Shredder, mainly. That would have caused some issues and it really broke my willing suspension of disbelief.

Agreed. That would have changed everything right after Shredder Strikes.

TheSkeletonMan939
09-20-2014, 02:16 PM
Agreed. That would have changed everything right after Shredder Strikes.

Would it have? Shredder just saw Leo again in weird armor and some kid tagging along.

CyberCubed
09-20-2014, 02:32 PM
Agreed. That would have changed everything right after Shredder Strikes.

Why? Shredder had no idea Leonardo was from the future, and Cody could have been any random kid.

Likewise it makes sense why Shredder came back more angry than ever to kill the Turtles in Shredder Strikes back.

Netkeeper
09-20-2014, 03:46 PM
You can read the review thread from when that episode originally aired, I don't remember people having a problem with that.
Just because nobody else appeared to have that concern doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Would it have? Shredder just saw Leo again in weird armor and some kid tagging along.
It means the turtles would know he's alive.

TheSkeletonMan939
09-20-2014, 04:05 PM
It means the turtles would know he's alive.

Wait, what? Here's how it goes down:

Splinter knocks Shredder off of the building, and he and the turtles walk away on the rooftops. Down on the street, Leo and Cody emerge as Shredder gets up from the wreckage. Quick fight. Shredder and some Foot go into the future for a moment, some stuff happens, and Shredder goes back to the present. The end.

CyberCubed
09-20-2014, 04:58 PM
It means the turtles would know he's alive.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The present day Turtles (from Season 1) were already gone at that point and went back to the lair. The only Turtle who saw Shredder was Fast Forward Leo.

It doesn't mess up any continuity because the Season 1 Turtles wouldn't see him again until Shredder Strikes back.

Coola Yagami
09-20-2014, 05:08 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about. The present day Turtles (from Season 1) were already gone at that point and went back to the lair. The only Turtle who saw Shredder was Fast Forward Leo.

It doesn't mess up any continuity because the Season 1 Turtles wouldn't see him again until Shredder Strikes back.

If anything, Shredder would have asked the turtles about the weird future technology he saw in Sh'Konabo's place and demanded information on it.... while the turtles scratch their heads wondering what he was talking about. Not only that, but after Leo somehow defeated Shredder effortlessly by himself.... I'm sure he would have brought even bigger and better reinforcements than just the Elite for Shredder Strikes Back and the gang would have been killed outright. Shredder could have upgraded his armor to a more powerful and durable design.

CyberCubed
09-20-2014, 05:10 PM
If anything, Shredder would have asked the turtles about the weird future technology he saw in Sh'Konabo's place and demanded information on it.... while the turtles scratch their heads wondering what he was talking about.

He didn't know it was the future. He thought he just jumped through a portal to another part of the city. Remember he never left Shokon'obo's ship.

Coola Yagami
09-20-2014, 05:26 PM
He didn't know it was the future. He thought he just jumped through a portal to another part of the city. Remember he never left Shokon'obo's ship.

still would have wanted the technology though.

Netkeeper
09-21-2014, 01:52 AM
You have no idea what you're talking about. The present day Turtles (from Season 1) were already gone at that point and went back to the lair. The only Turtle who saw Shredder was Fast Forward Leo.

It doesn't mess up any continuity because the Season 1 Turtles wouldn't see him again until Shredder Strikes back.
Okay, I was really tired when I said that, and worded it terribly, my mistake.

I meant from the Shredder's perspective. He would have seen Leonardo, therefore thought the turtles would know he was alive, and that he wouldn't have the element of surprise over them come Shredder Strikes Back.

Ok, apparently I'm still tired, because I'm not sure if I'm explaining this wortha ****. Remember kiddies, this is why you never use timetravel as a plot device literally ever.

Coola Yagami
09-21-2014, 02:04 AM
Okay, I was really tired when I said that, and worded it terribly, my mistake.

I meant from the Shredder's perspective. He would have seen Leonardo, therefore thought the turtles would know he was alive, and that he wouldn't have the element of surprise over them come Shredder Strikes Back.

Ok, apparently I'm still tired, because I'm not sure if I'm explaining this wortha ****. Remember kiddies, this is why you never use timetravel as a plot device literally ever.

Of course there's also the fact that slightest change can seriously **** things up in the future....

CyberCubed
09-21-2014, 04:35 PM
Come to think of it a lot of FF's villains would have worked just fine had they come in the present day instead of the future. Only exception being Darius and maybe Triple Threat.

Shokonobo was an alien so him arriving on Earth in the present would have made no difference, Viral was a computer construct, the Dark Turtles were clones, the Inuwashi Gunjin were aliens from a long extinct race, and Jammerhead was just a cyborg ala Baxter Stockman. Torbin Zixx I assume was an alien too (although he looked human), and was a cool Han Solo type bounter hunter.

Its a shame the secondary villains like Garbageman, Nano, Touch and Go weren't really all that interesting. FF had a much better set of recurring villains.

Netkeeper
09-21-2014, 07:56 PM
Of course there's also the fact that slightest change can seriously **** things up in the future....
Potato chip from the future

TheBlueTurtle1
09-22-2014, 06:33 AM
Come to think of it a lot of FF's villains would have worked just fine had they come in the present day instead of the future. Only exception being Darius and maybe Triple Threat.

Shokonobo was an alien so him arriving on Earth in the present would have made no difference, Viral was a computer construct, the Dark Turtles were clones, the Inuwashi Gunjin were aliens from a long extinct race, and Jammerhead was just a cyborg ala Baxter Stockman. Torbin Zixx I assume was an alien too (although he looked human), and was a cool Han Solo type bounter hunter.

Its a shame the secondary villains like Garbageman, Nano, Touch and Go weren't really all that interesting. FF had a much better set of recurring villains.

That's actually a really good point. Imagine if the Dark turtles come to the present and met up with the original Krang Shredder.

THGhost
09-22-2014, 10:45 AM
You only have to listen to FF's theme to see how childish they made it. :lol:

pharaohyami5000
09-22-2014, 01:21 PM
I cannot sing along with Fast Forward's theme song. There's just too many words. Adding "It's ninja time" didn't really help either.

It's still an okay season on how the plot was structured. Just tipped down a bit from the previous 5 seasons I've grown used to and loved. Not to mention it felt incomplete with Cody, Dunn, the Dark Turtles and maybe that bounty hunter guy that could be given more episodes.

CyberCubed
09-22-2014, 01:41 PM
Torbin Zixx wasn't really a bad guy, he was more of an anti-hero who worked for himself and sometimes engaged in questionable activities.

pharaohyami5000
09-22-2014, 02:36 PM
I did list Cody in my last sentence, so my list of characters aren't all antagonists.

I'd like to see at least an episode of Torbin Zixx's backstory. He kind of filled in as the "Bishop" of FF, even if he's in here too. Along with more of Cody and relative, Starlee Hambrath, the Ninja Tribunal, possibilities of the Foot being around, all that stuff.

evan2000
09-22-2014, 02:38 PM
Torbin Zixx wasn't really a bad guy, he was more of an anti-hero who worked for himself and sometimes engaged in questionable activities.
Yup, I love that you can't spell Torbin Zixx without Double-Crosses!

CyberCubed
09-22-2014, 03:52 PM
Anyone find it interesting there was no Foot Clan in Fast Forward? I wonder if the organization became extinct after Karai disbanded it. Hell it probably happened right after Turtles Forever.

Technically the Ninja Tribunal should still be alive in FF's time, but we didn't see them.

LeoRaph
09-26-2014, 08:13 PM
Alright, I've finally watched the first 5 seasons where I'll be taking the plunge to watch Fast Forward and Back To the Sewer before I finish 2K3 with Turtles Forever but so far it is DEFINITELY worth it. I've said it before and I'll say it again this is by far my favourite Animated version of the turtles. To me it's what the turtles should have been in the first place.

Yeah, it's a little Leo centric but he is the Leader for a reason and given how many times he was overlooked for the Mikey & Donatello OT and the Raph centric Movies, it's about time. And yeah, the first Shredder of seasons 1-3 is an utrom and Raph takes some getting used to but he grows on you, he has many moments that reveal more than his seemingly meathead tone leads on.

As an overall series it just works! The characterizations are done well, even Raph and Mikey (I'm probably in the minority but I prefer this Mikey best). There is actual all round character development and continuity. The story is able to mix gritty, mystical, fantastical and sci fi elements without going too kiddish with it. The humour isn't too over the top, I love the serious tone mixed with subtle character driven humour. I've laughed out loud so many times that weren't ONLY Mikey moments (Mikey too, Like I said I like this Mikey), the reactions from the others to Mikey always brought a smile too. Even Utrom Shredder and Baxter had many funny moments between them. Then there's the fight scenes, which are awesome! Sometimes you watch an animated series and you fast forward the fight scenes because they're just so boring but with 2K3 you look forward to them, they are always creative, fresh and a pure joy to watch.

And let's not forget the Dark Moments, the violence really goes as far as it can and if they could show blood they would but it is still a kids show. There is so much death and potential death it's hard to believe it's on a network called 4kids. I swear, this is as close to an adult anime as you can get without well the 'adult' content. Plus the emotional moments you really feel it, when Leo got stabbed in the Season 3 Final after seeing 'Same As It Never Was' just...wow. Then seeing him harden because of his failure and how it affects everyone around him then his moment where he hurts splinter is animation gold to me.

I also love the original 4kids characters of Hun and Agent Bishop they are great bad guys. I hope if they bring Agent Bishop back to the Nick Series they use David Zen Mansley again as I can't imagine anyone else doing the character justice. I also love how pompous Baxter Stockman is and even bonehead Casey grows on you as his heart is always in the right place. And of course Scottie Ray is the most menacing Shredder ever in an animated series right on par with the 1990 Movie Shredder.

Yeah, I could go on and on but I just got a lot of Love for this series.

I know now the quality is about to drop as I head into Fast Forward and Back To the Sewer but I have faith that they can't be as bad as the many many pointless filler stories and campyness of the OT. Besides, I'm sure once I get through them Turtles Forever will finish on a high.

Anyway, heres to finishing the journey that is 2K3!

CyberCubed
09-26-2014, 09:18 PM
Anyone else think Fast Forward's tone actually almost matches the Nick cartoons? Its not as funny, but it has a similar feel ignoring all the future stuff.

Shark_Blade
09-26-2014, 11:48 PM
I don't feel it considering Fast Forward's dire tone is all like a scratching on a chalkboard.

CyberCubed
09-27-2014, 12:14 AM
I don't feel it considering Fast Forward's dire tone is all like a scratching on a chalkboard.

What on earth are you talking about?

evan2000
09-27-2014, 01:43 AM
What on earth are you talking about?
He meant "jarring" :tlol:

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 05:40 PM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?

FoxBoxKid
11-24-2014, 05:57 PM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?

Why not? Are too you busy for cartoons?

pennydreadful
11-24-2014, 06:01 PM
My thought - you should watch it. :tgrin:

Jester
11-24-2014, 06:06 PM
^ what she said...

As for >>, it isn't THAT bad. There are quite a few quality >> episodes. BttS is more hit and miss.

Powder
11-24-2014, 06:19 PM
I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be

My condolences...

Netkeeper
11-24-2014, 06:23 PM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?
How long ago did this happen? Because I felt much the same way back when 2k3 was new. Decided to shove those thoughts aside when I gave the series another try as an adult and loved it.

Jester
11-24-2014, 06:24 PM
That's the 1st movie for me.

Come at me....

CyberCubed
11-24-2014, 07:10 PM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?

Why do people act like this? Look at how many different incarnations of Batman and Spiderman there are, how is TMNT any different?

I never understood this nonsense of TMNT should only have "one definitive version" when people gladly accept a billion versions of Batman, Superman, Spiderman, X-men, etc.

Jester
11-24-2014, 07:16 PM
To be fair, just because we grew up with the FW series and the Barron Flick (BEST...TURTLE MOVIE....EVER!!!) doesn't mean we can't appreciate the Mirage books, the 4Kids series and everything else. I think the only TMNT media I legitimately loathe is Turtle Tunes/Christmas, because...GOOD GOD!

CyberCubed
11-24-2014, 07:24 PM
To be fair, just because we grew up with the FW series and the Barron Flick (BEST...TURTLE MOVIE....EVER!!!) doesn't mean we can't appreciate the Mirage books, the 4Kids series and everything else. I think the only TMNT media I legitimately loathe is Turtle Tunes/Christmas, because...GOOD GOD!

I'm more perplexed why people can't realize TMNT has around 10 different incarnations now:

- Mirage
- Original toon
- 4kids
- Nick
- IDW
- Archie
- Live-action movies
- Michael Bay Turtles
- Next Mutation

I could list others but they're part of the same universes so they overlap.

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 07:46 PM
For me, the 2k3 series was so dramatically different from the 87-94 series that it was hard for me to push aside what I was familiar with and give the 2k3 series a chance. I was also put off by the theme song, which I just didn't care for at all, particularly compared to the 87-94 series.

CyberCubed
11-24-2014, 07:53 PM
I don't see why you would judge a show by its theme song.

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 07:56 PM
Because, for cartoons and other kid's shows, the theme song is an integral part of the overall product and the presentation of said product.

Jester
11-24-2014, 07:58 PM
Man...I LOATHE Red Sky. Such a piss-poor theme song.

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 08:04 PM
It wasn't just the theme song that put me off. I also didn't really much care for the Utroms or the characterization of April, Baxter, and Shredder. It was also hard for me to accept Karai because she wasn't a character I was familiar with at the time.

Powder
11-24-2014, 08:35 PM
Well, this show is based on the original comics, the source material, the REAL TMNT. So to not give it a fair chance is a bit absurd if you fashion yourself a true fan of the turtles.
Everything you know about the turtles is a lie, haha.

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 08:43 PM
Well, this show is based on the original comics, the source material, the REAL TMNT. So to not give it a fair chance is a bit absurd if you fashion yourself a true fan of the turtles.

That's kind of unfair, don't you think?

To my credit, though, I'm at least considering giving it a chance now.

Powder
11-24-2014, 08:50 PM
Yeah, it's unfair.

To Eastman & Laird.

CyberCubed
11-24-2014, 09:40 PM
It wasn't just the theme song that put me off. I also didn't really much care for the Utroms or the characterization of April, Baxter, and Shredder. It was also hard for me to accept Karai because she wasn't a character I was familiar with at the time.

So you don't like new characters? I'm baffled by this. The original cartoon had tons of new characters introduced as it progressed

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 09:55 PM
I should've clarified that because she was not a character I was familiar with, she seemed like a ripoff of the character of Lotus from the 87-94 series, which made it hard for me to accept her.

Jester
11-24-2014, 10:06 PM
I should've clarified that because she was not a character I was familiar with, she seemed like a ripoff of the character of Lotus from the 87-94 series, which made it hard for me to accept her.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4a/4aee5737f48eab9e8cb6db02bfa99554ed1fe9ae28ff1deee1 8ab36755feb89c.jpg

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 10:14 PM
^ I think I'm missing the proper context for that comment.

The crux of my original dislike of the 2k3 series is that most of the things that I didn't like about what I saw of it are things that I didn't like because I wasn't able to judge them on their own merits and kept comparing them to things from the 87-94 series and what I was familiar with. That might be closed-minded, but that's how I felt at the time. It wasn't what I knew, and therefore I didn't like it.

Jester
11-24-2014, 10:27 PM
The Lotus v. Karai argument has been had a lot over the years.

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 10:37 PM
The Lotus v. Karai argument has been had a lot over the years.

I feel very differently now about the character of Karai in general than I did back when the 2k3 series was airing, and recognize that my knee-jerk dismissal of the character as being a ripoff of Lotus was exactly that: a knee-jerk reaction.

Netkeeper
11-24-2014, 10:49 PM
Well, this show is based on the original comics, the source material, the REAL TMNT. So to not give it a fair chance is a bit absurd if you fashion yourself a true fan of the turtles.
Everything you know about the turtles is a lie, haha.
Don't start with the "true" fan ********. A true fan of TMNT is someone that likes TMNT. Someone can like the turtles however they like. It doesn't discredit them from being a fan. We aren't some exclusive club.

That said, I think you guys are ganging up on the dude for voicing previous opinions and reasons as to why they didn't like 2k3 in the past, and acting like they still hold those perspectives now. That is hardly fair and all it's going to accomplish is turn a prospective 2k3 fan away from even trying the series.

And Digi, as I said earlier, I understand how you feel. You are of course not obligated to try the series at all, it does not make you any sort of "untrue", "fake", or "inferior" fan, however, it's a very enjoyable series.

DigificWriter
11-24-2014, 11:08 PM
^ I don't feel like I've been ganged up on, but thanks for the words of support nonetheless.

I'm currently working my way through another 4Kids series - Yu-Go-Oh! - right now, but am considering making the 2k3 TMNT the next thing I watch once I'm finished.

Netkeeper
11-25-2014, 12:45 AM
Well that's good, I hope you enjoy it. If you want someone to discuss [first series] Yu-Gi-Oh with, feel free to leave a comment on my page.

neatoman
11-25-2014, 04:01 AM
The Lotus v. Karai argument has been had a lot over the years.

Really? People remember Lotus? Meh, whatever, I'm sure Lotus will be forgotten sooner or later since she was only in two (very different) episodes, while Karai has actually stuck as a major character.

tmntpower1988
11-25-2014, 05:31 AM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?

Tbh I used to be like that. I also grew up with the 80s show and when I first watched 2k3 I hated it. I remember seeing Hun and thinking to myself "Who the f*ck is this guy? Where's Bebop and Rocksteady?". Also didn't like that Shredder was too serious. I never bothered with the show until a few years later when I started to lose interest in the 80s cartoon. The 2k3 series blew me away, I was so impressed with it that it became my favourite TMNT cartoon. I still love it, pity I can't say the same thing for the 80s series. I can't even sit through an episode of it anymore it just bores me to death. Each episode feels like they last over an hour they drag in that much.

Powder
11-25-2014, 06:06 AM
Don't start with the "true" fan ********. A true fan of TMNT is someone that likes TMNT. Someone can like the turtles however they like. It doesn't discredit them from being a fan. We aren't some exclusive club.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Aaronardo
11-25-2014, 07:08 AM
Guys, he did say he was giving the show a chance, right? Then how about stop bashing his (admittedly stupid) opinion that he doesn't even have anymore? He was saying that he thought the show was going to be crap because it didn't look like the '87 series. Now, he's giving it a chance. So how about stop racking on him about an opinion he doesn't have anymore?

DigificWriter
11-25-2014, 11:01 AM
^ I told Netkeeper I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, but that's starting to change. There's no call for people to exhibit snobbery when it comes to the TMNT in any incarnation, and if this is the kind of behavior that the 2k3 series engenders, I might be better off continuing to dismiss it.

BTW, calling my opinion stupid while telling people to leave me alone is kind of hypocritical.

Wesley
11-25-2014, 11:36 AM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?

I think the 2003 series is worth a watch. I felt the same way about 2003 at first. The first episode I saw was the Garbageman one and it was somewhat boring. I stuck with it, though, because if reminded me of the Red Sky seasons which I liked. I changed my mind about the show when I saw "The Shredder Strikes Back". I loved watching it after that.

I still missed characters and elements from the 1987 cartoon, but I considered 2003 to be a good standalone show. At least 1987 was still regularly re-run on rte two in the 2000s, so I was able to watch both at the same time.

jenna
11-25-2014, 12:45 PM
Sorry to 'hijack' the thread, but I didn't want to start one of my own for the same topic.

I grew up with the 87 series and consider it to be the standard for what the TMNT are supposed to be, and consequently found myself disliking what I saw of the 2k3 series, but am wondering if it's worth it to shove aside my preconceptions and watch it. Thoughts?

Hello! I also grew up with the old FW cartoon and I would definitely recommend 2k3. At first it is a bit of a shock if you are only used to the OT because it's so different in design and tone, but it's important to recognise that it is a completely separate entity. It's not a reboot or a sequel. It takes it's lead from the original Mirage comics, which the OT gave less regard to. So don't expect to see Bebop and Rocksteady or Krang etc, although you might spot the odd homage or two ;) .

Being completely honest, it took me a few episodes to get over certain things (the bulkier, buffer turtles, the lack of pupils in the turtles' eyes, Raphael's extremely gruff, aggressive character etc), but after that I was very quickly hooked.

It gets into the soul of TMNT. The martial arts are good, the characters are much deeper, the humour is more sophisticated. There's also a strong philosophical element which gives it depth.

Treat it as what it is, a different incarnation inspired by the same source material. It really is a good series, mostly well-written and mostly beautifully presented (up until the end of season 4 at least IMO, but that's another story).

Incidentally, you may like to take a look at Turtles Forever. It's a film which is one long self-effacing piss-take. It's great. It highlights a lot of the differences between the two incarnations, as well as the similarities. It's great fun.

FoxBoxKid
11-25-2014, 12:57 PM
Don't start with the "true" fan ********. A true fan of TMNT is someone that likes TMNT. Someone can like the turtles however they like. It doesn't discredit them from being a fan. We aren't some exclusive club.

So if someone, for example, liked Dragonball Evolution, but disliked Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, you think they should be able to call themself a Dragon Ball fan?

plastroncafe
11-25-2014, 01:03 PM
I can't think of a good reason why anyone who believes themselves to be a fan of something suddenly isn't because someone other than them says so.

Leo656
11-25-2014, 01:06 PM
Depends.

If someone said they were a huge Superman fan, for example, and their main point of preference was "Superman IV: The Quest For Peace", I would calmly settle the discussion by politely setting them on fire, then stomping them out until the squishing noises stopped.

plastroncafe
11-25-2014, 01:13 PM
Oh I'm not saying that we can't judge people for their poor life choices and preferences, I'm just saying no one has the right to tell someone else they're not a fan of something.

For instance, people who love "Next Mutation" are turtle fans, they're just turtle fans with questionable taste.

Netkeeper
11-25-2014, 01:22 PM
^ I told Netkeeper I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, but that's starting to change. There's no call for people to exhibit snobbery when it comes to the TMNT in any incarnation, and if this is the kind of behavior that the 2k3 series engenders, I might be better off continuing to dismiss it.
It's not the kind of behaviour I, as a 2k3 fan, certainly condone. This is just people being elitist bastards. The fans that give us a bad name.

So if someone, for example, liked Dragonball Evolution, but disliked Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, you think they should be able to call themself a Dragon Ball fan?
Yes, if that is what they wanted to do. And I say this as a huge Dragonball fan myself.

DigificWriter
11-25-2014, 01:29 PM
people who love "Next Mutation" are turtle fans, they're just turtle fans with questionable taste.

One could say the same thing about fans of this series (not that I would).

People like what they like, and don't deserve to be looked down upon because what they like is different from what someone else likes.

Wesley
11-25-2014, 01:36 PM
One could say the same thing about fans of this series (not that I would).

People like what they like, and don't deserve to be looked down upon because what they like is different from what someone else likes.

I agree. I did like The Next Mutation when I was 12, though. A few people at school preferred it over the OT (presumably due to the fact that it was live-action and loosely based on the films). I watched a few episodes of it a year ago and thought it was awful (it wasn't as good as I remembered it).

Powder
11-25-2014, 01:43 PM
The fans that give us a bad name.


This coming from the guy who goes out of his way to let people know he's sexually attracted to the turtles. :tneutral: Nice of you to use the term "bastards", very civil.

FoxBoxKid
11-25-2014, 01:43 PM
Yes, if that is what they wanted to do. And I say this as a huge Dragonball fan myself.

You would enable misguided opinions?

CyberCubed
11-25-2014, 01:49 PM
I think this thread needs to be locked.

jenna
11-25-2014, 01:52 PM
(it wasn't as good as I remembered it).

:lol: Isn't that always the way? Had the same experience with the OT. But then I had a very different set of priorities when I was 8!

plastroncafe
11-25-2014, 01:58 PM
A friend of mine has coined the term, "Visited by the suck fairy" for just such occasions.

CyberCubed
11-25-2014, 02:00 PM
I think some people here need to grow up.

Aaronardo
11-25-2014, 02:41 PM
I think this thread needs to be locked.

Please, for the love of god, make that your sig. (Seriously though, guys, he's right. Y'all need to chill).

Also, DigificWriter, if you get Nicktoons, I figure this thread (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=50191) can help you get in on the 2003 TMNT!

Jester
11-25-2014, 03:16 PM
There is nothing wrong with liking or disliking whatever you wish. I think the question is the dismissiveness of a certain part of the franchise without a proper viewing. Dislike it, sure but give it a chance before dismissing it as "not the Turtles i remember."

Aaronardo
11-25-2014, 04:12 PM
Guys, he did say he was giving the show a chance, right? Then how about stop bashing his (admittedly stupid) opinion that he doesn't even have anymore? He was saying that he thought the show was going to be crap because it didn't look like the '87 series. Now, he's giving it a chance. So how about stop racking on him about an opinion he doesn't have anymore?

Seems like everyone's ignoring this comment. He doesn't have that opinion anymore. No need to tell him why it's wrong.

pennydreadful
11-25-2014, 04:48 PM
We aren't some exclusive club.

Wouldn't it be cool if we were an exclusive club though? With, like, special decoder rings and secret handshakes? :tgrin:

http://pics.livejournal.com/wheelsonthebuzz/pic/000qptzk

For instance, people who love "Next Mutation" are turtle fans, they're just turtle fans with questionable taste.

Mikey approves all things of questionable taste. :trazz:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PLjSnZkTNtE/Ty8JECRYMnI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/awobdJZrz3o/s200/Mikeys%2Bpizzas.jpg

So if someone, for example, liked Dragonball Evolution, but disliked Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, you think they should be able to call themself a Dragon Ball fan?.

Yup - I call myself a DBZ fan and I've never watched DB and can't stand most of the characters in DB, DBZ or Evolution (except for Vegeta). I'm one of thooooose. And there's nothing anyone can do about it! *laughs maniacally*

http://38.media.tumblr.com/0fa5b03309b7627735ca9ae95ec94c0c/tumblr_n5blt3NIne1rufqdvo1_500.gif

Seriously though, let's all be friends - we're all a pretty freaky bunch in our own way. And I, as the self-nominated Lord of Filth & Freakiness* here, say that we should not quibble over minor differences - we are all a wonderful batch of weirdos, each and every one. :tcool:

* You may challenge me for my title if you wish, but remember - There Can Be Only One. :D

DigificWriter
11-25-2014, 05:39 PM
There is nothing wrong with liking or disliking whatever you wish. I think the question is the dismissiveness of a certain part of the franchise without a proper viewing. Dislike it, sure but give it a chance before dismissing it as "not the Turtles i remember."

I didn't just dismiss it 'out of hand'. I HAVE seen a few episodes and do have a cursory knowledge of it and the ways in which it differs from the series I grew up with.

THGhost
11-25-2014, 08:33 PM
Jesus. What happened to this thread!? :o

I think some people here need to grow up.

I think this thread needs to be locked.

I call myself a DBZ fan and I've never watched DB and can't stand most of the characters in DB, DBZ or Evolution (except for Vegeta). I'm one of thooooose. And there's nothing anyone can do about it! *laughs maniacally*

I'm the same. I'd be willing to bet that most DBZ fans, even the die hard ones, have never watched DB. *Laughs maniacally with you*

Netkeeper
11-25-2014, 08:43 PM
This coming from the guy who goes out of his way to let people know he's sexually attracted to the turtles. :tneutral:
http://i.imgur.com/tL6TU5J.png
Hey, you know, what can I say? I have good taste.

Seriously though, let's all be friends - we're all a pretty freaky bunch in our own way. And I, as the self-nominated Lord of Filth & Freakiness* here, say that we should not quibble over minor differences - we are all a wonderful batch of weirdos, each and every one. :tcool:

* You may challenge me for my title if you wish, but remember - There Can Be Only One. :D
I will not challenge you if I get to call dibs on the title of Lord of Strange & Questionable Fetishes.

pennydreadful
11-25-2014, 09:40 PM
I will not challenge you if I get to call dibs on the title of Lord of Strange & Questionable Fetishes.

Deal. Should I ever be assassinated by the anti-tce... er, "anti-shipping and adult-situations fanfic" contingent here, you shall inherit my throne.

Til then, I reign supreme, bitches. 8)

http://static.tumblr.com/udkdg8l/tz0m4pnyg/smug.gif