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TigerClaw
09-07-2014, 09:28 AM
Check this out, a Storyboard/Concept Artist posted a Storyboard of an alternate origin for the TMNT Movie. In this one, Splinter learned Martial Arts by watching TV.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=107218

http://i.imgur.com/NvNsaP0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/knYqXlJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0GZ9P00.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aetKEDP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TU6D1f3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dEOim8s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IkMBs6r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Wnc2tfh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cJHjwdf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bs1Arj1.jpg

TurtleTitan97
09-07-2014, 12:12 PM
Check this out, a Storyboard/Concept Artist posted a Storyboard of an alternate origin for the TMNT Movie. In this one, Splinter learned Martial Arts by watching TV.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=107218

http://i.imgur.com/NvNsaP0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/knYqXlJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0GZ9P00.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aetKEDP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TU6D1f3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dEOim8s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IkMBs6r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Wnc2tfh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cJHjwdf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bs1Arj1.jpg

That's even dumber than learning it from a book! :trolleye:

Did the people who even worked on this film even bother to look at the source material?

Donnieangelo
09-07-2014, 12:15 PM
That's even dumber than learning it from a book! :trolleye:

Did the people who even worked on this film even bother to look at the source material?
Guess not.

Powder
09-07-2014, 01:36 PM
Wow, what terrible storyboards. So unprofessional looking...

Anyway, all of the origin is/was stupid, but honestly, I feel like this would have been a lot more acceptable than a "Ninjutsu for dummies" book. I mean, most martial arts films have actual techniques in them, & it's not completely unreasonable to think that a genetically altered creature could absord what it saw & recreate it when it was able bodied. But to look at drawings of poses & suddenly know the fluid movements behind them? Nonsense. That's like saying the old Solson training guides put out in the Mirage days actually taught kids how to fight.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 01:53 PM
Wow, what terrible storyboards. So unprofessional looking...

Anyway, all of the origin is/was stupid, but honestly, I feel like this would have been a lot more acceptable than a "Ninjutsu for dummies" book. I mean, most martial arts films have actual techniques in them, & it's not completely unreasonable to think that a genetically altered creature could absord what it saw & recreate it when it was able bodied. But to look at drawings of poses & suddenly know the fluid movements behind them? Nonsense. That's like saying the old Solson training guides put out in the Mirage days actually taught kids how to fight.

The only reason I don't RAEG over this is because the original comic started out with a rat watching Yoshi fight from his cage.... and somehow learned it well enough to train the turtles into the bad-asses they are today. And that was before Eastman or Laird went back said 'uhh.... even before the Mutagen he was already kind of a mutant rat''.

I'll always preffer it when Splinter was Yoshi himself.. plus that always makes the vendetta against Saki that much more personal.

RaphaelinSTL
09-07-2014, 02:22 PM
Wow, what terrible storyboards. So unprofessional looking...

Anyway, all of the origin is/was stupid, but honestly, I feel like this would have been a lot more acceptable than a "Ninjutsu for dummies" book.

Hahaha, that's exactly what my brother and I described the book he was reading as.

What a stupid, stupid movie.

Candy Kappa
09-07-2014, 02:30 PM
I'd much prefer an idea that the ooze can imprint the subject visual stimuli. Like Splinter watching Yoshi do martial arts and speak infront of the rat, he'd later imprint what he've seen and it'd go into the muscle memory as if he knew it.

It would have totally fitted the "created as weapons" theme as it could have been used on soldiers to watch a training video and boost their training method and shorten the time it would take to get new fully trained soldiers. But they tested it on animals first.

newhire13
09-07-2014, 05:12 PM
What I find interesting is that the storyboards make it look like he was being forced to watch. I'm guessing it's the sensory thing that was rumored before the movie hit: that part of the mutagen experimentation had them shaping his mind to learn martial arts by exposing him to it over periods of time, essentially downloading it into his head. Kind of like how Neo learned to fight in The Matrix. Much more interesting approach. In that way Splinter and the turtles would have literally been designed to fight.

Xiewin
09-07-2014, 05:26 PM
Well I guess those early rumors were true. In a way...

DevilSpooky
09-07-2014, 05:48 PM
Did the people who even worked on this film even bother to look at the source material?

Did you? How is learning it from watching old martial arts movies worse/different from learning it from watching a human do it? At least in here he was already mutating and getting more intelligent.

Anyway, I would like this version a lot more then what we got, it feels like an updated version of the original origin.

TurtleTitan97
09-07-2014, 05:52 PM
Did you? How is learning it from watching old martial arts movies worse/different from learning it from watching a human do it?



Because Hamato Yoshi was an actual ninja, not some actor from a martial arts film.

I'd take Splinter learning from Hamato Yoshi or him and Yoshi being the same person over this or the book origin.

Xiewin
09-07-2014, 05:53 PM
Did you? How is learning it from watching old martial arts movies worse/different from learning it from watching a human do it? At least in here he was already mutating and getting more intelligent.

Anyway, I would like this version a lot more then what we got, it feels like an updated version of the original origin.

I do find them both to be ridiculous in their own way. But the only downside to this origin is that there is no Hamato/Oroku saki link. I would have been fine with this if that was place somewhere in the story, but it's not. So which is why this idea sucks.

Galactus
09-07-2014, 05:58 PM
We could debate whether this is better of worse than what we got but it still cuts out the most important aspect of the origin. The connection to Yoshi, the rivalry with Saki.

Hasn't Leibesman admitted the only research he did was look at still images. :roll:

I suppose you could say that maybe the writers might but it strikes me the same as the recent Star Trek movies were they just skimmed through for catch phrases and random things to put in with the belief that it would be satisfying for fans.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 06:17 PM
We could debate whether this is better of worse than what we got but it still cuts out the most important aspect of the origin. The connection to Yoshi, the rivalry with Saki.

Hasn't Leibesman admitted the only research he did was look at still images. :roll:

I suppose you could say that maybe the writers might but it strikes me the same as the recent Star Trek movies were they just skimmed through for catch phrases and random things to put in with the belief that it would be satisfying for fans.

We changed everything about the series as you know it, including the things that made you love the franchise in the first place... but look!!! They still have their weapons!!! They do flips and stuff! THEY LOVE PIZZA!!! THEY SAY COWABUNGA!!! Fans will love it!!! It's a sure fire winner!!!

Shark_Blade
09-07-2014, 06:31 PM
Even the "pet rat copying his master" origin is stupid.

Only ones I prefer are 'Hamato Yoshi turned into a mutant rat', and 'IDW reincarnation' origins. Since both originated from a human that truly knows martial arts.

Galactus
09-07-2014, 07:40 PM
Even the "pet rat copying his master" origin is stupid.

True. It has a certain whimsical charm to it but yes on the whole it's stupid like almost all comic book origins but then there's a pass that Eastman & Laird get because they had no idea that their work (that mostly holds up) would be put under any serious scrutiny.

A a major motion picture that was an attempt at a tent pole for a series should know it is going to face serious scrutiny. If they were set on changing the origin then it really needed to be something that at least sounded plausible but what they came up with was even stupider that they may as well as just left it alone.

It also eliminates the most important aspect; The Yoshi and Saki back story.

I've said it before but if they were set on having them aliens but kept everything else abut their back story...well I wouldn't be too happy but I'd like that they'd kept the really important part. Why they do what they do is more important than how...at least to me.

slingtheory
09-07-2014, 09:14 PM
my biggest problem with both these origins is what it means for the turtles heritage. by removing yoshi from the story you effectivly remove any roots splinter and the turtles have back to japan or ninjitsu. yeah the idea of a rat mastering martial arts by watching his master is probably the hardest pill to swallow in all of tmnt lore but i can still get behind that origin more because at least theres an actual master in the equation whose culture and beliefs splinter could absorb. in this movie he just kind of stumbles onto something, decides its cool. its not something he learned from a father figure or spent most of life being around its a hobby he decides to devote the rest of his life to and then builds his life around it.

Galactus
09-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Oh the turtles have links to Japan alright because not only did Splinter master martial arts from a single book but fully appropriated Japanese culture from it too. :roll:

It also seems highly contrived that Splinter finds a book on ninjitsu and coincidentally the people who own the lab he was created in are also supposed to ninjas (even if the don't act like it) with own ties to Japan.

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 09:54 PM
I kinda wonder if there was a foot clan in the first cut. It made sense now when they added an Asian shredder in the last minute, but if Sachs was to be shredder all along, why would he need a Japanese clan. He already had a standard American military unit.

IndigoErth
09-07-2014, 10:11 PM
Yoshi as lab tech involved in lab accident would have been so easy... *sigh* Hey writers, directors, whoevers... sometimes the easy route in some elements is ok, ya know?



Honestly if they wanted to go full wtf, they should have kept white Shredder, who ALSO learned ninjutsu from a book - the SAME book - and tie it together in some way we're supposed to be impressed with by saying April stole his book as a child, then felt guilty about it and dropped it into a sewer grate thinking it would never be found out. Years later she sees the book on a shelf in the Turtles and Splinter's home and is like oh ****.

So then it's like April that Shredder actually wants to kill for taking his book and the Turtles have to protect her... or just want to (aka forced to) for some random reason. When really they're wanting to say "Look just take it and get out of here, else he's gonna explode our wall - Bay style."

Coola Yagami
09-07-2014, 10:14 PM
Yoshi as lab tech involved in lab accident would have been so easy... *sigh* Hey writers, directors, whoevers... sometimes the easy route in some elements is ok, ya know?

but they still have pizza and cowabunga so it's A-OK....

Cryomancer
09-08-2014, 12:03 AM
The "learn by watching" thing as a goal of the experiment would make a lot more sense and make for a better movie, yeah. The thread title makes it sound like "watched tv" was the same as "read a book" but this is more like "was forced to watch video as a test to see if he would learn it" which really just works a lot better.

I wonder if this was cut because it would have involved like 5 or 10 minutes of nothing but animals being forced into things in a lab?

Candy Kappa
09-08-2014, 12:19 AM
my biggest problem with both these origins is what it means for the turtles heritage. by removing yoshi from the story you effectivly remove any roots splinter and the turtles have back to japan or ninjitsu. yeah the idea of a rat mastering martial arts by watching his master is probably the hardest pill to swallow in all of tmnt lore but i can still get behind that origin more because at least theres an actual master in the equation whose culture and beliefs splinter could absorb. in this movie he just kind of stumbles onto something, decides its cool. its not something he learned from a father figure or spent most of life being around its a hobby he decides to devote the rest of his life to and then builds his life around it.

Their Japanese roots are now from Gwen Stefani music videos, so much better then what previous versions did... :lol:

Myko
09-08-2014, 12:47 AM
Honestly if they wanted to go full wtf, they should have kept white Shredder, who ALSO learned ninjutsu from a book - the SAME book - and tie it together in some way we're supposed to be impressed with by saying April stole his book as a child, then felt guilty about it and dropped it into a sewer grate thinking it would never be found out. Years later she sees the book on a shelf in the Turtles and Splinter's home and is like oh ****.

So then it's like April that Shredder actually wants to kill for taking his book and the Turtles have to protect her... or just want to (aka forced to) for some random reason. When really they're wanting to say "Look just take it and get out of here, else he's gonna explode our wall - Bay style."

Easy now, are you trying to get hired by Platinum Dunes? :trazz:

Commenter 42
09-08-2014, 04:59 AM
Honestly if they wanted to go full wtf,

Never go full WTF.

Sumac
09-08-2014, 04:05 PM
It's like they tried to hard to be original...and flopped in the mud as a result.

grungethemovie
09-08-2014, 04:38 PM
I'd much prefer an idea that the ooze can imprint the subject visual stimuli. Like Splinter watching Yoshi do martial arts and speak infront of the rat, he'd later imprint what he've seen and it'd go into the muscle memory as if he knew it.

It would have totally fitted the "created as weapons" theme as it could have been used on soldiers to watch a training video and boost their training method and shorten the time it would take to get new fully trained soldiers. But they tested it on animals first.

MICHAEL BAY! Give this girl a job! (i'm assuming you're a girl by your avatar - if you're not a girl, Mr. Bay will be somewhat disappointed i guess)

IndigoErth
09-08-2014, 05:14 PM
He's prob miserable to work under if even Megan Fox got mad and broke up with him for a while. So that said...
Easy now, are you trying to get hired by Platinum Dunes? :trazz:
...nooo. lol But they can pay me for any ridiculously lame ideas they like as long as they don't apply it to TMNT. :D


It's like they tried to hard to be original...and flopped in the mud as a result.
Mud flopping should be part of the creative process... maybe if the writers go roll around in it a while...

Never go full WTF.
Awww... but imagine the spectacle!

zodiac brave
09-09-2014, 02:08 PM
Wow, what terrible storyboards. So unprofessional looking...


yet, he is the professional who did these and got paid for them, regardless of whether they were used or not.

and what do "professional" story boards look like? these look like any story board for any movie, to me...

this origin is head and shoulders above the ridicluous one we got in the actual flick. it's actually NOT as silly as the idea from the original movie where he just learned by watching without any kind of outside help. i think that for the direction they ended up taking this flick in, this would've been perfectly fine, and honestly, outside of yoshi being a human mutated into a rat, this origin could work in any movie.

i think a lot of people are ready to trash anything having to do with this movie regardless of whether its actually bad or not...

the way i see it, if we'd had a director who was universally loved, some amazingly accomplished screenwriters and producers who seemed to actually care-with this SAME EXACT ORIGIN filmed and used in the movie, people would've been fine with it.

as it is tho, seems like the same ol' drome movie section around here...turning this-a post showcasing some unused story boards-and turning it into a hate-fest, retreading EVERYTHING we've all heard, said, argued about for months.

awesome.

Powder
09-09-2014, 02:28 PM
Yeah, there's also "professional" writers involved, who penned such lines as "Drain them of all their blood, even if it kills them.". Being established or having a degree doesn't exactly mean your work is any good. Comic sans, typos, jumbled text, these are not the sort of things that should be on a storyboard. & I'm not some God damned bandwagoner, as you seem to imply. You're a cool dude outside of the boards, but here, you're on ignore. All this BS about people only hating the movie due to names involved is a freakin' insult, if you'd read a single point from our side of things you'd know that's a garbage excuse to dismiss opinions you dislike. :tlol: Quality.

Commenter 42
09-09-2014, 03:04 PM
Yeah, there's also "professional" writers involved, who penned such lines as "Drain them of all their blood, even if it kills them.". Being established or having a degree doesn't exactly mean your work is any good. Comic sans, typos, jumbled text, these are not the sort of things that should be on a storyboard. & I'm not some God damned bandwagoner, as you seem to imply. You're a cool dude outside of the boards, but here, you're on ignore. All this BS about people only hating the movie due to names involved is a freakin' insult, if you'd read a single point from our side of things you'd know that's a garbage excuse to dismiss opinions you dislike. :tlol: Quality.

Wow.

All i can say is that boards vary across productions. It really depends on the time given to the artist, the style of the artist, the number of revisions to the layout, and the type of production.

Commercial boards can be extremely detailed, animation even more so, from what I've seen. http://www.animaticmedia.com/ < these guys take boarding to the extreme.

But there is definitely no "standard" to boards, as usually an animatic is made pretty quickly once the idea is approved.

3rd floor is a good example of this, if you're looking to see what is acceptable.http://www.thethirdfloorinc.com/#home-7a225

But i agree, the level of detail in the boards is wanting, when you consider the skill of most artists jockeying for these jobs. i just think they go for speed over quality, in most cases.

Bry
09-09-2014, 03:19 PM
That's even dumber than learning it from a book! :trolleye:

Did the people who even worked on this film even bother to look at the source material?

Do we really need to ask that question at this point?

Funny - it's exactly the "virtual ninja training" some folks were talking/speculating about before it was released. They really bent over backwards to do anything but have an actual ninja behind Splinter's ninja skills. Weird, dumb choice. But marginally better than the weirder, dumber choice they went with, I guess.

Hasn't Leibesman admitted the only research he did was look at still images. :roll:

Oh man - is that true? It wouldn't surprise me a bit, but man... if that is the case, the bar's set even lower for professionalism.

I kinda wonder if there was a foot clan in the first cut. It made sense now when they added an Asian shredder in the last minute, but if Sachs was to be shredder all along, why would he need a Japanese clan. He already had a standard American military unit.

They basically were a standard American military unit in practice, anyway. Aside from that one quick scene of "Saki" ninja training, nothing about them was particularly ninjaesque. They were just masked special ops dudes with guns and gear.

Their Japanese roots are now from Gwen Stefani music videos, so much better then what previous versions did... :lol:

Y'know what? There are some details I forgot in the past month, and I had a few moments where I wondered to myself, "Was the movie really that bad? Maybe you're being too critical." And then I remember details like this, and I know: it was absolutely that bad.

zodiac brave
09-09-2014, 05:03 PM
Yeah, there's also "professional" writers involved, who penned such lines as "Drain them of all their blood, even if it kills them.". Being established or having a degree doesn't exactly mean your work is any good. Comic sans, typos, jumbled text, these are not the sort of things that should be on a storyboard. & I'm not some God damned bandwagoner, as you seem to imply. You're a cool dude outside of the boards, but here, you're on ignore. All this BS about people only hating the movie due to names involved is a freakin' insult, if you'd read a single point from our side of things you'd know that's a garbage excuse to dismiss opinions you dislike. :tlol: Quality.

yo, i didnt mean to imply anything about you being a "band wagoner". i've known you didnt feel really any part of this production since pretty much the get go and the only part of my post that was regarding you was the part about the quality of the story boards. and really, that was just kinda cuz your remark sounded kinda "hater-ish", i guess. (and i hate that term by now, but fuggit...im at my job working off a baclofen hangover due to back pain. i'm too tired to find a more eloquent way to describe it. full disclosure.)

that said...i wish i coulda done story boards. it would've been an amazing experience, but i didnt. because im not a professional. therefore im not gonna trash the work of those that did get the opportunity.

and i get that you were just vocalizing your opinion, but theres criticism...then theres shade. and if you didnt mean to throw shade, then my bad. i misunderstood. apologies.

and its cool if im on ignore or whatever...but i will say that i've never been one of the posters on here like others that blindly love the flick because the flick exists. as a matter of fact, i've been one of the only vocal-ish proponents of the idea that this flick has its flaws (VERY BIG FLAWS), while also recognizing the entertainment value of it as a dumb, fun, goof of a movie. i do think we coulda gotten better, but im also not gonna grow a hate-on for it, because there's real life stress i gotta worry about. this is just a movie to me.

the rest of the post was aimed at the feeling of this forum in general, cuz, yeah i do think that at this point a lot of posters are on a band wagon of hate for liebsman, bay, pd...whomever. NOT you. not bry. not leo656. yall have valid, thought out and, frankly TRUE reasons and arguments. many more than you might think, that i agree with wholeheartedly.

but there're also a lot of posters on here who...well...DONT. they arent informed yet still loud and full of hatred. (and thats the worst and most dangerous type of hatred.)

sorry for the confusion and i honestly didnt mean to offend you in any way, man.

and also for the record...im not on any "side".

:)

Powder
09-09-2014, 05:13 PM
Fair enough. Respect, brudda.

Leo656
09-09-2014, 08:03 PM
It's nice when people "get it".

Not about "hate", it's about discourse. Dig it. You hepcats are alright.