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neatoman
09-14-2014, 02:02 PM
For better or worse, the 4Kids cartoon is probably as close to a straight adaptation of the comics we will ever really get and as a result the changes and additions it made does tend to pop a bit. So the question is, are there any you liked or disliked in particular?

I know a lot of people hate the Utrom Shredder thing but I don't, when you really think about it the Shredder always kind of sucked as a main villain because of a pointless attampt at making a big bad out of a character meant to die from start and has very little terms of personality and abilities. So you might as well mess around with his nature, I honestly think it's better to have him be over the top and bizarre than a regular human, he is a Zombie in the IDW comics for a reason. I also like many additions like Hun, Bishop, Battle Nexus etc.

As for what I don't like, well it might have been better to make City at War into a season finale instead of a filler arc so it could have the same impact as in the comics and we could have done without some additions that had very little impact like the Garbageman. Over all I respect most changes and additions.

Netkeeper
09-14-2014, 02:06 PM
I know a lot of people hate the Utrom Shredder thing but I don't, when you really think about it the Shredder always kind of sucked as a main villain because of a pointless attampt at making a big bad out of a character meant to die from start and has very little terms of personality and abilities. So you might as well mess around with his nature, I honestly think it's better to have him be over the top and bizarre than a regular human, he is a Zombie in the IDW comics for a reason.
I really have to agree here; with this show, the creative team was able to take a retrospective look at Mirage's story when they decided what changes would be made in the adaptation process, though, and that's probably one reason why this was done. Because it gave the Shredder more mystery as well as longevity. The idea of him being a main villain wasn't the original intent in the beginning of Mirage. There was no way to look back on that and mess with things.

People always think changes in an adaptation are like some kind of devil, but usually there are logical reasons for these decisions and that they weren't just done to troll the fanbase or just because they wanted to. I've never understood the hate for Utrom Shredder.

oldmanwinters
09-14-2014, 02:23 PM
I thought the color masks with the light brown pads actually looked really good in animation. Not sure if that style had been previously seen before that.

Most other adaptations have followed the 4Kids show design on that point.

pharaohyami5000
09-14-2014, 03:17 PM
I personally like 2k3's Shredder. If they made him human, they will not get away with having that Shredder VS Leonardo fight, which is 1 of the biggest highlights. I also like they made Shredder as this ultimate overlord. First he looks as human, then he comes back as this spiritual demon, then he comes back again as an online program. Nothing can stop him from being the threat. Oh, you killed me. Pfft. Back-up file .

Only thing I wish 2k3 would do better is Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers be a little more complete. The threat from FF didn't look like it was resolved and BttS didn't really go through much of Master Khan. Ah, and there's also the Rat King. That... didn't develop further.

CyberCubed
09-14-2014, 04:19 PM
Saving the Turtles in Space arc until after Season 1 was a brilliant idea.

Coola Yagami
09-14-2014, 04:41 PM
Not much. I kinda wish it kept the wild and wacky order of things like they were in the comics. It was jarring not seeing Zog in Return to New York and not appear in rogue in the house only because they screwed up the order of things. Also city of war needed to be a 5 parter and actually about the foot fighting itself with Karai cleaning house.

Only change is I guess updated dialogue. The 80s slang woulda been out of date in the 2000s.

CyberCubed
09-14-2014, 08:47 PM
Not much. I kinda wish it kept the wild and wacky order of things like they were in the comics. It was jarring not seeing Zog in Return to New York and not appear in rogue in the house only because they screwed up the order of things. Also city of war needed to be a 5 parter and actually about the foot fighting itself with Karai cleaning house.
s.

Nah, its better the way they did it. If the Turtles had traveled to space as early as episode 5-6 it would have been disorienting and off-putting. Having the Turtles mostly "grounded" in realism for most of the first season made sense. That's why the Utroms aren't even revealed till the finale.

I also loved how they saved Zog for "Rogue in the House," he really wasn't needed for the 2k3 version of RTNY, especially since the show added the Foot Mystics and Baxter's robot body in the mix.

Cryomancer
09-14-2014, 09:04 PM
Utrom Shredder was a pretty brilliant idea for the format, I think. It was the perfect excuse to have a badass beheading scene in a kid's cartoon, at least. Also let them have battles with other "dismemberment" without stopping the fight, as he'd continue to fight even naked which I always thought was pretty neat. Works well with the "famous face secret crimelord" concept.

Coola Yagami
09-14-2014, 09:09 PM
Nah, its better the way they did it. If the Turtles had traveled to space as early as episode 5-6 it would have been disorienting and off-putting.


It sure as hell wasn't disorienting and off-putting when Mirage did it. It was more disorienting and off-putting for me when they put things out of order. And then had to make more changes down the line to compensate.

CyberCubed
09-14-2014, 09:21 PM
It sure as hell wasn't disorienting and off-putting when Mirage did it. It was more disorienting and off-putting for me when they put things out of order. And then had to make more changes down the line to compensate.

It was disorienting to you that the show did its own thing? Who said the 4kids series had to follow the Mirage order down to a T? I don't even know why you would be thinking that.

I'm also pretty sure we had the full episode list on ninjaturtles.com before it aired, so if you were around back then you would have known from the start the show was going to do its own thing.

Coola Yagami
09-15-2014, 05:47 AM
I don't think I was around here that often when it first debut. It can be it's own thing and still follow the comics general order. That's what the filler eps and stuff like notes from underground was for.

CyberCubed
09-15-2014, 04:30 PM
I don't think I was around here that often when it first debut. It can be it's own thing and still follow the comics general order. That's what the filler eps and stuff like notes from underground was for.

Following the comics wouldn't make sense for a cartoon, especially if Shredder was killed off early. Likewise I much prefer how the storyline of Volume 2 was more or less merged into Bishop's EPF storyline and Baxter becoming a cyborg earlier in the series.

Coola Yagami
09-16-2014, 11:02 PM
Following the comics wouldn't make sense for a cartoon, especially if Shredder was killed off early. Likewise I much prefer how the storyline of Volume 2 was more or less merged into Bishop's EPF storyline and Baxter becoming a cyborg earlier in the series.

Except he came back (as a clone) for the Silent Partner/Return to New York story. I wouldn't be surprised if they found some way to not kill him in the first fight, like they did with the water tower.

This topic is about changes I admired or disliked. Those are the things I disliked. End of story.

CyberCubed
09-17-2014, 01:30 AM
If I want to read the Mirage comics, I'll read them. I'm glad the 4kids series did its own thing.

LeotheLateBloomer
09-17-2014, 07:42 AM
Pretty much this. The 2003 series, while based on the comics, did a lot to stand out on it's own. There were a lot of changes made, some good, some controversial, but I love the fact that it took a hell of a lot of risks. Not every cartoon is going to properly adapt their comic book counterparts but this show has shown fans how the turtles were originally supposed to be. I think all of the characters were represented well and I don't think there was ever a time when this show disappointed me aside from FF and BttS but even I enjoyed those to an extent.

I can go on for saying how much I LOVE this show.

Taartru
09-17-2014, 07:45 AM
The '03 turtles are my favourite, Why? Well.

It's the most close to the comics, Personalities are my favourite.

The Changes I admire were, The personalities and the darker tone of the show, With even some being stabbed *Spoiler* Remember that dragon? Yeah he got cut in half, And shredder's ''Head'' got cut off too However it was later revealed that he was an utrom and That head was not his real head.

Changes I disliked? I have none I really don't I also think that the Back to the sewers season was Pretty good. Even though I am in the minority there. I disliked changes they made IN the 03 series itself, Like the Design change they made when i believe nick got their hands on TMNT, It's not horrible or anything, but I just think that the origina l 2003 design is the best. So yeah..

ObiWanFan4life
09-17-2014, 01:20 PM
I love this show. The characters are well-written and the action is phenomenal. However, the turtles in this version act more like twenty or thirty year olds instead of teenagers.

Myko
09-18-2014, 08:58 AM
I liked that Shredder was an Utrom. The beheading scene in RTNY is one of my favorite cartoon moments of all time.

But Ch'rell the character wasn't very good by the end. Noone is all to the core evil and still an interesting character.

Icebot
09-18-2014, 11:08 AM
I loved April's purple shirt and the way she looked in it.

tmntpower1988
09-18-2014, 12:49 PM
I love this show. The characters are well-written and the action is phenomenal. However, the turtles in this version act more like twenty or thirty year olds instead of teenagers.

That's what I love about the show. I like the way they had no pupils as well when they wore their masks.

neatoman
09-18-2014, 03:01 PM
I love this show. The characters are well-written and the action is phenomenal. However, the turtles in this version act more like twenty or thirty year olds instead of teenagers.

To be fair, the Nick cartoon is really the only incarnation that actually writes them as teenagers, the rest just kind of think they need to joke around a little and calls them teenagers.

The way I rationalise this is that they're mutated turtles and don't have to age the same way a human does, like how a human is still a child at eleven yet a dog is at the end of it's life span. From what I get real turtles mature faster than humans but live longer lives.

Netkeeper
09-18-2014, 06:51 PM
Ah yes

http://38.media.tumblr.com/60a81c210018b3254d4ff487c93e583e/tumblr_n7zv9xsf0V1siaga8o1_500.png

Sometimes I forget

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me63fy2gMU1qdyb9vo3_250.gif

The 2k3 turtles

http://33.media.tumblr.com/dfc1d536d42ae7483bfddaf89a475a8d/tumblr_n9gmm9EQ1Z1qjlgzio4_1280.png

Aren't actually teenagers

http://38.media.tumblr.com/af2f3191323db6f58b2e82188380800f/tumblr_n8q0cbiZaj1rg87cko8_500.gif

But I'm not quite sure what they are

http://31.media.tumblr.com/79d0b6f21c61097d6cc2510e4d390512/tumblr_nbjpknfGbi1ra4ndco2_400.gif

If they're not teenagers

http://38.media.tumblr.com/bcd5fd55fb1456eb7eaeaa07e1bc5089/tumblr_mm1l8tAGWN1qdyb9vo1_250.gif

Wait just a freakin minute

http://38.media.tumblr.com/ca282b96d2508d9320f486600f0a836f/tumblr_n6bnlh6uUv1rjz1v3o4_r1_500.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/777feefac630c7cde3dce688698797a4/tumblr_n6bnlh6uUv1rjz1v3o3_r1_500.gif

YOU LIE. They (http://38.media.tumblr.com/132aa6610096891480fb1e0542c3c02a/tumblr_mv8m9qsdbU1s7wrkco1_500.gif) most (http://31.media.tumblr.com/f6531f8f365b45b381923b7029468371/tumblr_n4c5jhuuqt1s28906o1_250.png) certainly (http://33.media.tumblr.com/c561dc1a3eeb553c4bc93729783b5ffa/tumblr_n5tnw9EG3H1qbknvio5_250.gif) ARE (http://38.media.tumblr.com/613e2a48fcd917b0f300829b83ecf241/tumblr_mian0cqKID1ri7ot7o1_500.png) teenagers (http://media.tumblr.com/a948f5f86cc14f298ba0e2620f281eea/tumblr_inline_n8z1i5mXkL1rsvtof.png).

Myko
09-19-2014, 03:05 AM
I think they're written "teenagerly" enough. If they were like most real human teenagers they would be unbearable.

neatoman
09-19-2014, 03:06 AM
Ah yes

http://38.media.tumblr.com/60a81c210018b3254d4ff487c93e583e/tumblr_n7zv9xsf0V1siaga8o1_500.png

Sometimes I forget

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me63fy2gMU1qdyb9vo3_250.gif

The 2k3 turtles

http://33.media.tumblr.com/dfc1d536d42ae7483bfddaf89a475a8d/tumblr_n9gmm9EQ1Z1qjlgzio4_1280.png

Aren't actually teenagers

http://38.media.tumblr.com/af2f3191323db6f58b2e82188380800f/tumblr_n8q0cbiZaj1rg87cko8_500.gif

But I'm not quite sure what they are

http://31.media.tumblr.com/79d0b6f21c61097d6cc2510e4d390512/tumblr_nbjpknfGbi1ra4ndco2_400.gif

If they're not teenagers

http://38.media.tumblr.com/bcd5fd55fb1456eb7eaeaa07e1bc5089/tumblr_mm1l8tAGWN1qdyb9vo1_250.gif

Wait just a freakin minute

http://38.media.tumblr.com/ca282b96d2508d9320f486600f0a836f/tumblr_n6bnlh6uUv1rjz1v3o4_r1_500.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/777feefac630c7cde3dce688698797a4/tumblr_n6bnlh6uUv1rjz1v3o3_r1_500.gif

YOU LIE. They (http://38.media.tumblr.com/132aa6610096891480fb1e0542c3c02a/tumblr_mv8m9qsdbU1s7wrkco1_500.gif) most (http://31.media.tumblr.com/f6531f8f365b45b381923b7029468371/tumblr_n4c5jhuuqt1s28906o1_250.png) certainly (http://33.media.tumblr.com/c561dc1a3eeb553c4bc93729783b5ffa/tumblr_n5tnw9EG3H1qbknvio5_250.gif) ARE (http://38.media.tumblr.com/613e2a48fcd917b0f300829b83ecf241/tumblr_mian0cqKID1ri7ot7o1_500.png) teenagers (http://media.tumblr.com/a948f5f86cc14f298ba0e2620f281eea/tumblr_inline_n8z1i5mXkL1rsvtof.png).

Yeah there is certainly some effort in there but I think what a lot of people mean is that a lot of the time they were potrayed with the responsibility, confidence, judgement and competence of adults (which I have no problem with since they've been trained to be like that).

Basically what they're saying is: There is more to being a teenager than goofing off once in a while.

Netkeeper
09-21-2014, 08:53 PM
Yes, absolutely. Glad someone gets it. The world these turtles were raised in required them to be responsible and competent, so they were. [Especially Leonardo, dang.]

Leo656
09-22-2014, 09:09 PM
I kind of concur with that, based a lot on my own circumstances. My life put me in a position where I had to be, more or less, a "responsible adult" at about 13. Even beyond myself, though, I knew a lot of "kids" who held jobs and acted "mature" far beyond their years. Literally the only people I knew who acted as "stereotypically teenager-ish", like Nick Mikey, were the people who did way too many drugs and were just completely fried. That's not how "normal teenagers" act, in my experience. It kind of bugs me when people say that; it's not true, and if anything, the characters often come off as some 40-year old's half-memory of what being a teenager is like, filtered through the cracked lens of someone who is decades removed from their own experience.

The way they act is a parody of how teens act, basically. It's not exactly true to life. 2K3 may have skewed a little too far the other way, but it's still more accurate, from my perspective.

Netkeeper
09-24-2014, 04:47 AM
Exactly. Characters like Nick Mikey come across as tryhard in the writing. I mean, there were some teenagers who acted kinda like that, I myself being one of them at around that age. I was a youngest and was allowed to act as immature and dependent as I wanted, so that's just how I developed. I was kept in a very safe, sheltered, and controlled environment for the first ten years of my life, and as a teenager I was still very kid-like in a lot of ways. [Also, I was insufferable. I still have old forum posts from as early as 2005 to prove it.]

But nearly everyone I knew swayed more towards the mature side of the scale, wanting to act like little adults. While I never understood this and to an extent still don't, it's just how teenagers are. They want to grow up already. They'll indulge in silly behaviour and do a lot of stupid things because their minds aren't yet fully developed, but most of the teens I knew and still know [I hang out with a LOT of 16 - 18 year olds] are in a huge hurry to grow up and try to act mature. Add this tendency to the 2k3 turtles' environment and upbringing, and you DO have a bunch of little adults.

Coola Yagami
09-24-2014, 10:22 AM
I kinda see three kinds of teenagers. The wild party types that wanna party, get laid and buy their first car. The kinds that spend more time studying and getting ready for whatever college they're striving for. And the kind that do both.

Even the party ones are mature and responsible in their own way since they're working hard to get jobs for the cash they need for cars and dressing to impress the ladies.

The thing is, most if the silly selfie type teens are barely 13 or 14. The turtles being 15 are already closer to the 'time to stop acting stupid and plan for the future' kinda age.