TMNT II - thoughts on it? [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

Misfit

08-23-2003, 06:31 PM

I just now re-watched TMNT II and it really hit me for the first time that I actually DON'T like this movie.

There's so many things I find wrong with it.

- Paige Turco replacing the perfect Judith Hoag as April
- No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place.
- Much less realistic turtle costumes
- Shredder's return - I didn't buy it that anyone would survive Shredder's fall...especially since he got CRUSHED in that garbage truck too.
- Tokka and Razor were as lame as Hell. Why them and not good old Bebop and Rocksteady?
- Keno was really, REALLY annoying.
- Excrucatingly lame script. The TMNTs dancing in a Night Club with, of all people, Vanilla Ice? The same Ninja Turtles who in the first movie were all for completely secrecy of their existance fighting and dancing openly in front of dozens of people and making no attempts to conceal themselves or anything and even worse, Splinter finding it FUNNY when he learns of it? Bah.
- Horrible cartoon sound effects.
- Shockingly cheesy and goofy, and not good in the old toon way but stupid and (in fear of being repetitive with my wording), lame.

I am so tempted to just throw out my tapes of TMNT II and the even worse TMNT III. The first movie is a genuis work of art that's to be treasured for a life time...but the sequels? What a big steaming pile of *bleep*. Never should've been made or at least should've been handled with the same quality, care and respect the first movie got.

What's everyone's thoughts?

Karpo_007

08-23-2003, 06:48 PM

My toughts exactly. You forgot the total lack of weapons. Most popular theory is that parents complained about the first movie, saying it's to violent etc. So New Line decided to do this cheesy kids film instead of a real sequel.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 07:14 PM

I agree with all that you said NinjaGirl. Except one thing...
I liked Tokka and Rahzar.

Anyway, isn't it weird that it took so long to notice how bad TMNT 2 was?
I never liked TMNT 3 from the start but, I liked TMNT 2 until, the first time I saw it after the TMNT's disappearance.

Misfit

08-23-2003, 07:38 PM

Oh yeah the lack of weapon's is another thing to add to the list. Also the less realistic and cartoony like fighting. Like the opening scene in the toy store for example.

The martial arts in the first flick were awesome...here? Forget it.

Karpo_007

08-23-2003, 07:58 PM

Well I too liked the movie as a kid, I guess it works for children.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 08:09 PM

I Guess.
That's about the only way I could figure it.

Jephael

08-23-2003, 08:11 PM

I just wanted to make an attempt to defend the sequal here by stating my feelings towards what NinjaGirl said before.

"Paige Turco replacing the perfect Judith Hoag as April."

It's not the first time an actor has been replaced. Judith obviously wasn't available for the part. It threw me for a loop back in the day, but now that I'm old enough to understand, it doesn't phase me.

"No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place."

I read somewhere that he reminded people too much of Jason from Friday the 13th. It is ashame they had to forget about him like that.

"Much less realistic turtle costumes"

I liked the costumes. They were just as realistic as the ones from the first flick.

"Shredder's return - I didn't buy it that anyone would survive Shredder's fall...especially since he got CRUSHED in that garbage truck too."

People do **** like that all the time in movies. It's basic movie logic, really.

"Tokka and Rahzar were as lame as Hell. Why them and not good old Bebop and Rocksteady?"

Eastman and Laird didn't want that, so they settled to have 2 different bumbling mutants. Atleast Tokka and Rahzar put up a much better fight against the turtles than Rocksteady and Bebop.

"Keno was really, REALLY annoying."

This I agree with. He barely had any real purpose for being in the movie.

"Excrucatingly lame script. The TMNTs dancing in a Night Club with, of all people, Vanilla Ice? The same Ninja Turtles who in the first movie were all for completely secrecy of their existance fighting and dancing openly in front of dozens of people and making no attempts to conceal themselves or anything and even worse, Splinter finding it FUNNY when he learns of it?"

Ummm.... no comment.

"Horrible cartoon sound effects."

Where were there any cartoonish sound effects?

Dane E5R

08-23-2003, 08:12 PM

Gonna have to disagree with ya Jeph, the costumes in the 2nd had much brighter colors and uh..Bug eyes. Especially Donatello.

Another gripe to add to the list..

Leonardo is struggling to break free of a net..When he's got two swords strapped to his back. What, were they afraid kids world wide were gonna start attacking nets?

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 08:15 PM

GEEZ, Jeph! we're having so much fun bitching and you go and ruin it for us!! :x
I'm Just Kidding! :lol:
Your opinions are as valid as ours! :)

No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place."

I read somewhere that he reminded people too much of Jason from Friday the 13th. It is ashame they had to forget about him like that.
I can't believe the filmmakers were dumb enough to listen to the focus groups on that one! (or anything else!):lol:

Raven

08-23-2003, 08:18 PM

I would have to agree with every thing you said, but I also liked tokka and rahzor. I dont know why though.

Jephael

08-23-2003, 08:21 PM

GEEZ, Jeph! we're having so much fun bitching and you go and ruin it for us!!
I'm Just Kidding!
Your opinions are as valid as ours!

That's the best part about these discussions. The people who liked a certain flick/show defend it against the people who bitch about it.

Leonardo is struggling to break free of a net..When he's got two swords strapped to his back. What, were they afraid kids world wide were gonna start attacking nets?

Maybe he couldn't reach his swords, cause there wasn't enough elbow room. I remember the same thing happening in an ep of the toon.

Leo656

08-23-2003, 08:46 PM

I also loved the flick as a kid, not so much now. I still don't despise it or anything.

Paige Turco replacing the perfect Judith Hoag as April
I thought Paige was a lot hotter, and that's about my only criteria, so I liked her April a lot better.

No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place.
THAT pissed me off.

Much less realistic turtle costumes
Never really noticed.

Shredder's return - I didn't buy it that anyone would survive Shredder's fall...especially since he got CRUSHED in that garbage truck too.
It wan't THAT unrealistic. B'sides, not a lot of kids (which were like 90% of the TMNT audience at that time) would have cared about the movie if Shredder wasn't in it. Kinda like how nobody cared when TMNT III came out.

Tokka and Razor were as lame as Hell. Why them and not good old Bebop and Rocksteady?
Yeah, that was pretty dumb I thought. If you were gonna use dumb mutants, at least use dumb mutants people would recognize. The only thing I can figure is "new characters = new toys to sell".

Keno was really, REALLY annoying.
I'll drink to that. I'd trade him for Casey in a heartbeat. All the martial arts kicks in the world won't do jack against a pissed-off psycho with a hockey stick.

Excrucatingly lame script. The TMNTs dancing in a Night Club with, of all people, Vanilla Ice? The same Ninja Turtles who in the first movie were all for completely secrecy of their existance fighting and dancing openly in front of dozens of people and making no attempts to conceal themselves or anything and even worse, Splinter finding it FUNNY when he learns of it? Bah.
Without a doubt THE worst part of the entire TMNT Trilogy. Again, it was all about the kids at that point.

Horrible cartoon sound effects.
Again, never noticed.

Shockingly cheesy and goofy, and not good in the old toon way but stupid and (in fear of being repetitive with my wording), lame.
That's open to interpretation. I thought it was plausible all the way up until the dumb stuff at the end with the nightclub.

However, I can look past all the bad because it all lead up to.... KEVIN F*CKING NASH as Super-Shredder, arguably THE best thing out of all the Turtles movies. If it's Nash, it's gold. Especially since his part in the film got him more attention from the suits at WCW, who gave him more screen time, so he could jump to the WWF as Shawn Michaels' bodyguard and eventually win the World Title, then jump to WCW and form the nWo, then win their World Title, then jump back to the WWF, get a haircut and have a part in the new Punisher movie.

So as you can see, the most important events in the history of the universe all begin - and end - with Kevin Nash. His very prescence saves TMNT II from being ALL bad, since nothing with the Nash Seal of Approval could ever be truly bad.

As for TMNT III, I thought it was more corny and boring than truly bad. The costumes were pretty cheap, though. Casey being back was good, but it loses points because he didn't fight and Nash wasn't involved.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 08:52 PM

I liked the concept of Super Shredder, but NOT the execution.

It should have been more mystical and supernatural instead of a mutation and turning into a berzerker muscle-head isn't very "super" to me. He should have attained more agility and not lost his intelligence and maybe shoot energy projectiles!

Leo656

08-23-2003, 09:12 PM

But it still should have been Kevin Nash.

I've long maintained that TMNT II should have ended with Super-Shredder no-selling everything the Turtles threw at him, then Jackknife Power Bombing each of them off the pier and into the water. He would then take off his mask and talk to the audience in a "shoot" for the next fifteen minutes, telling them that "Wolfpac in the house!" and saying "the only thing real about this business is the money", then going off in a tangent and making insider references nobody in the audience understands and shout-outs to Shawn Michaels. He proceeds to talk straight through the credits until he is cut off by the screen fading to black. Then the letters "n-W-o" would appear in red spraypaint across the screen as "Don't Turn your Back on the Wolfpac" played.

Cuz if you're gonna use Kevin Nash, you just gotta let him cut loose, ya nah'mean?

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 09:18 PM

Well, that would be better than the ending they used!

GK Punk

08-23-2003, 10:42 PM

It would also have been brilliant if bebop and Rocksteady were played by Sean Waltman(Syxx/X-pac) and Scott Hall. :lol:

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 10:49 PM

They should have toned it down even further removing ALL violence from the movie, then they should have put Kala the neutrino in it, and have a REALLY explicit "adult" scene between her and Mike just to get reactions from the parents groups!

Krangfan

08-23-2003, 11:28 PM

Personally, I liked #2 the best out of all three movies (I liked all three btw). C'mon guys, it WAS after all made mainly for kids, (heh, maybe that's why I like it, at age 15 I'm still considered a kid right... RIGHT?!) I agree Keno was annoying, and the lack of weapons was kinda lame. The way I look at it is this: if you want a good story with a lite sprinkling of humor and some good old fashion action: watch the first movie. If you want something to laugh at and have a good time with humourous cartoony action (gotta love that opening sequecne when they're using the yo-yo's and other toys) and stuff: watch the second movie (I always like to watch it when I'm feeling sad or something). If you want lots of action, a pretty good story, and some humor, watch the third movie. Tokka and Rahzar I thought were cool, and I think the voices for Raph and Don were best in the second movie. The way I look at it is, you hafta watch Secret of the Ooze with a younger person's view in mind, kick back and just enjoy the witty antics of four pizza loving turtles! :D

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-23-2003, 11:30 PM

....and Kevin Nash.

I still say a Neutrino sex-scene would have saved that movie!

Dane E5R

08-23-2003, 11:31 PM

LOL!!! I just got your nWo joke, GK. I was sittin' here gettin' riled up cuz Bebop is black. If X-Pac was in that movie, that would've definitely earned it 1000 cool points in my head.

damnhooligan

08-24-2003, 02:49 AM

While I agree that the second film wasn't nearly as great as the first (Sheer novelty, I think), I thought it was cute.

As much as people love Corey Feldman (Who doesn't?), I really liked Adam Carl as the voice of Donatello. Plus, I found Brian Tochi's voice to be far more controlled and Leo-esque. Something erked me about his voice in the first movie.

But otherwise, it felt almost like an entirely different universe from the first.

Karpo_007

08-24-2003, 04:06 AM

Well the fact that it's a kids movie do justify the lack of weapons, goofy fights sound effects, and maybe even the REturn of the Shredder the way he did. But it really doesn't justify the cheesy script. There are children's movies with good script too.

Krangfan

08-24-2003, 09:00 AM

How was the script cheesy?

Jephael

08-24-2003, 09:03 AM

As much as I loved this flick, they could've beefed it up alittle more with the fighting and whatnot.

Karpo_007

08-24-2003, 09:15 AM

How was the script cheesy?

First of the whole dialogue, and like Ninjagirl said, TMNT dancing in a night club? They were supposed stay out of sight. Every battle was cheesy and goofy with cartoony sound effects. Especially with the yoyos and sausages. One of the worst, bunch of foot Jump over Mikey, he gets out but foot continue hitting the ground. Extremely cheesy and lame. As is the Return of Shredder. First movie showed how the Helmet was crushed, no human could have survived that.

But like I said before, unlike the first movie it's made for children, and it justifies most of those things. But of course If you compare it to the great first movie, it will look very bad.

Cyber Samurai Don

08-24-2003, 09:39 AM

re: Shredders helmet getting crushed - My thoughts on this was that his helmet fell off when he fell into the truck and so the empty helmet was crushed. (how he survived is another thing).

RE:April. I read/heard somewhere that the first April didn't go down well with the kids and that's why they changed her.

Super Shredder was awesome! His action figure was one of the best TMNT figures ever made (albeit a little short/small). The fact that his clothes 'mutated' made no sense, but oh well.

My fave line was when Mikey said; "a little too Raph"

TMNT II was the best film IMO.

Leo656

08-24-2003, 09:45 AM

I always preferred to think of it as Shredder's helmet getting crushed... cuz after a fall from that height it's actually pretty likely that his helmet would fall off. That it would land in the garbage truck.... that's a bit of a stretch but not altogether impossible. Shredders' return wasn't all that implausible if you remember that it is, in fact, a movie and that all people in movies are a bit more durable than they would be in real life.

And yes, CSD, Super-Shredder did indeed rule the universe. Not for anything he actually did... just cuz it was Nash. The fact that his clothes mutated made no sense, indeed, but... well neither did Nash letting Hogan pin him after a poke to the chest with his finger. Nash bends the laws of physics and reality. Cuz he's God, and God can do that.

Shellfox

08-24-2003, 09:59 AM

1. Tokka and razor were not stupid. THEY WERE INFANTS!!! At least in human terms, for guys who just became intelliginet being able to talk in a day is pretty damn smart!

2. The costumes were better in the second movie, the Henson company refinded them to an art form in the movie so I have no clue how anyone can complain.

3. We never saw the shreddded get crushed in teh first movie jsut hiw helmet. So it is possible he survived.

4. I can't debate V-Ice, that was just a cheap idea to get people to watch the movie.

5. never heard any sound effects.

6. Keno wasn't a bad addition, yes he was diffrent, but he added much needed martial arts action since the suits naturally impeded some moves.

7. I can't say I cared about Casey, since the fight took place over 3 days or so, its not a big deal that they didn't go find and/or mention him.

8. So they didn't use their weapons, you act like its the greatest offence in teh world. Had they not been wearing their heads, I'd be mad, but weapons, thats hardly a reason to not like a movie

All in all 2 is my favorite of the 3 movies, its probblly the best blend of action and comidy they did.

Karpo_007

08-24-2003, 10:01 AM

Well even if he was in the crusher without his helmet, he would have still died. Grabage crusher does not that much space. But compared to everything else, it is still a minor detail.

Quiller-Bee

08-24-2003, 10:04 AM

Not all kids necessarily like things that have been dumbed-down and "kiddified", especially when they have something else to compare it to, such as the first movie or the Mirage comics.

My parents dropped my two younger sisters and me off at the theater to see TMNT II. Going in, our hopes were high from the precedent that had been set in TMNT I. Walking out of the movie was a totally different story for me. Yes, we were kids, but I knew right then that we'd been ripped off big time. (To be honest, I was flat-out depressed after seeing it.) It was obvious that the movie had been "kidded-down" considerably from the first.

Like many of you, some of the things that bugged the living crap outta me were:
1.) No Casey.
2.) No use of weapons.
3.) No usage of the term "Damn!" on Raph or anyone else's part.
4.) The addition of the annoying and, in retrospect, completely useless Keno. (Okay, maybe not completely useless. I just didn't like 'im.)
5.) No Casey.
6.) Rahzar - I thought Tokka looked pretty cool at the time, but Rahzar struck me as being a big, goofy reject from the backalley of Sesame Street.
7.) I'm going to be honest here and admit that both my sisters and I were young enough to actually think that Vanilla Ice was cool at that point in time. (My God, I look back and cringe . . . .) Still, the whole "Ninja Rap" routine was simply lame.
8.) Super Shredder . . . his severely disappointing lack of screen time; the fact that he lived such a brief time after his mutation; the fact that in his normal human form, Shredder survived FALLING from a ROOFTOP and being CRUSHED by a GARBAGE TRUCK, but colapsing LUMBER could KILL the SUPER SHREDDER. Gyahd!!! NnnNN - F*** ME!!! (Okay . . . woops . . . >ahem< . . . I thought I'd laid that all to rest in therapy. Guess not. Heh-heh.)
9.) No friggin' Casey.

As for Paige Turco's replacement of Judith Hoag as April, it bothered me for about five seconds, but I was quickly able to get past that with little trouble. Like Leo, the fact that she was hotter than Hoag won me over. (Hey, say what you will, but boys will be boys . . . even before puberty turns us into total hormonal maniacs.)

In closing, we were at TMNT II on its opening weekend. It left such a bad taste in our mouths that by the time TMNT III was released, we waited for it to come out on video.

Karpo_007

08-24-2003, 10:29 AM

I said the movies shouldn't be compared, but since you opened the door, let's.

1. Tokka and razor were not stupid. THEY WERE INFANTS!!! At least in human terms, for guys who just became intelliginet being able to talk in a day is pretty damn smart!

Compared to to the first movie's seriousness and excellent plot, Tokka and Rahzard are very stupid thing. But the overall movie style has changed from action/comedy to cheesy children's comedy so they do kind of fit in.

2. The costumes were better in the second movie, the Henson company refinded them to an art form in the movie so I have no clue how anyone can complain.

I guess it's matter of opinion, but most fans like the TMNT without that many spots. Excluding the spots they are pretty much as good as in first movie.

3. We never saw the shreddded get crushed in teh first movie jsut hiw helmet. So it is possible he survived.

Helmet or not, Human would not survive in garbage crusher. But again, the movie has so little credibility that it's a minor detail.

4. I can't debate V-Ice, that was just a cheap idea to get people to watch the movie.

Yes, and the TMNT dancing was the second thing that totally deleted the ninja part from their name. Getting back to that later.

5. never heard any sound effects.

Then you should probably watch the first and second movie in a row. Most noticable are the yoyo and sausages at the begining.

6. Keno wasn't a bad addition, yes he was diffrent, but he added much needed martial arts action since the suits naturally impeded some moves.

I never really had anything against Keno, annoying character, yes but nothing stupid like Tokka and Rahzar.

7. I can't say I cared about Casey, since the fight took place over 3 days or so, its not a big deal that they didn't go find and/or mention him.

No sure what to say, Casey wouldn't have made the movie any better.

8. So they didn't use their weapons, you act like its the greatest offence in teh world. Had they not been wearing their heads, I'd be mad, but weapons, thats hardly a reason to not like a movie

This IS a major point. Ninja Turtles fighting with yoyos and sausages instead of traditional Ninja weapons? But again, it reflects the whole style and writing of the movie, goofy action for chidren.

But the general publick did not like it. Altough it wasn't as big flop as the TMNT III, it clearly was one. Because of this TMNT III never really had a chance, it was just the last attempt to cash out from a dieing success of the TMNT.

First movie was a hit that no one expected. Mainly because Kids' were not it's main audience. New Line shouldn't have changed the working formula, but they did, and can only blame themselfs.

As a movie TMNT is far superior in every way, but I really think that Ooze shouldn't be comapred to the first movie since it's much more closer to the cartoon. Kids and an old cartoon fans liked it, so it does appeal to the fan base that prefer the goofy TMNT.

Sparvid

08-24-2003, 02:22 PM

Two things I haven't seen mentioned yet:

Even if Keno is irritating himself, something even more annoying is his lines when he fights / jumps around, which were clearly dubbed in afterwards.

The Foot soldiers becomes really incompetent! If these guys really are the best well-trained youths in NY, I wonder how bad fighters the rest of them must be...

Quiller-Bee

08-24-2003, 04:20 PM

J Legault

08-24-2003, 05:03 PM

Not this again...The sequal might be off balance but i don't see anything bad in it. sure it contains Comedy but nothing wrong to me. If it did awful howcome on the back of my VHS Box said better than the First.

Now here are my options:

The April Charater was play be a different actress but I didn't notice anything about that.

Notice The company was T.G.R.I. while the true letters were TCRI. Same techno company that created the ooze exspect it didn't had any Utroms in it.

I don't mind Keno at all. I guess the movie needed someone pasides danny to be the Kid charater. Nothing wrong with a Japenese Kid in it.

The costumes look like the ones from the original only design differently.

Shredder's Costume had a differnet Visor and Helmit.

Tokka and Rahzar, yes two dumb Mutated animal they don't bother me ether so some of you might as well let that past.

When I first saw the movie on Video I didn't even know who Vanilla Ice is.
Sorry but it's true.

On a different Topic Karpo007 said that the Original one was too serios for younger viewers. Then why does my vHs said the Term Family on it then

now if parent went to stupid enough to tell new Line what to do then maybe today you all would say better thing about it. i don't care what you you what's wrong with the sequal, They are still my favorite. and there's no Wrong thing about it.

Jephael

08-24-2003, 06:19 PM

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Quiller-Bee

08-24-2003, 06:26 PM

Nobody's saying that you're wrong, man. Your opinion is your opinion, and that's fine . . . and the same goes for those of us who weren't crazy about II or III.

That having been said, here are a few more of my own: :evilgrin:

The reason the back of your VHS box says that II is better than the first is a little thing called hype. That's a statement often made in one form or another in regard to a sequel for the sake of marketing . . . a statement that is rarely true. The ticket sales on II didn't begin to approach those of the first movie.

Who says movies like the TMNT flicks HAVE to have a kid character? Firstly, the Turtles themselves were close enough to being kids themselves. Secondly, kid characters irritated me even more when I was a kid myself. (When you pretended to be TMNT characters when you were a kid, did you or any of your friends ever say "Word, I wanna be Keno!") Thirdly, I really don't think the fact that Keno was a "Japanese" character had anything to do with the opinions of 99% of those who didn't like 'im. Certainly not for me.

As for what Karpo said, I won't insult him by attempting to speak for him, but I'll say this in defense of his comment: I don't think he was saying that the first movie was NOT made for kids at all. It was, by definition, more of a family flick than the second movie in the sense that it had elements aimed at both kids and adults. The second was aimed solely at kids . . . which was exactly why some kids didn't like it. :lol:

Dane E5R

08-24-2003, 06:36 PM

The costumes do not look the same.. I doesn't anyone remember that chart that JoshBYawn made awhile ago depicting the different versions of the TMNT? If anyone still has that, it'd be nice of you to post it. I've got plenty more to say, but just don't feel like it right now. Heh.

Karpo_007

08-24-2003, 10:39 PM

Right... Well Quiller-Bee covered it. TMNT made about 3 timesas much money in the Box office, so your VHS is just hype. And Yes, TMNT was a asuccess beacuse it wasn't children's movie. It was PG, and suitable for children but not made for them.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-24-2003, 11:42 PM

Sparvid

08-25-2003, 04:54 AM

Karpo_007

08-25-2003, 05:16 AM

Didn't even remember that thread... Well you can certailny see that they were going for more cartoony look. Still, it never was the suits that bothered me in the movie.

jeff the cheff

08-25-2003, 10:40 AM

I think the new cartoon is more childish then the second movie..and we all seem to like it...right?

Karpo_007

08-25-2003, 10:44 AM

I think the new cartoon is more childish then the second movie..and we all seem to like it...right?

More childish? :lol: Well not going to argue with you. Just going to say that watch the movie again.

Misfit

08-25-2003, 11:21 AM

Not this again...The sequal might be off balance but i don't see anything bad in it. sure it contains Comedy but nothing wrong to me. If it did awful howcome on the back of my VHS Box said better than the First.
Because that is someone's opinion. Doesn't mean they're right, doesn't mean some of us are wrong. They feel it's the best, but it doesn't mean it IS the best. Though of course anyone who does think it's the best has the perfect right to that and I don't see anyone getting bashed for that belief.

I don't mind Keno at all. I guess the movie needed someone pasides danny to be the Kid charater. Nothing wrong with a Japenese Kid in it. Please don't bring up race. I never said there was anything wrong with having a Japenese kid in the movie. I think it could've been a really good move it's just that Keno didn't do anything for me. He had (IMHO) no personality or point. I don't like him, he was a waste of space. The writer's could've brought in a really cool kid character with the whole Japenese/Martial Arts background and given him a bit of depth, yet we got Keno instead.

Tokka and Rahzar, yes two dumb Mutated animal they don't bother me ether so some of you might as well let that past.No sorry I won't "let it pass". I strongly dislike Tokka and Rahzar and I'll say so as often as I like. Free speech and all that. :)

When I first saw the movie on Video I didn't even know who Vanilla Ice is.Nothing wrong with that. *shrugs*

i don't care what you you what's wrong with the sequal, They are still my favorite. and there's no Wrong thing about it.YOU think there is nothing wrong with it, *I* think it sucks. We'll have to agree to disagree here and except each other's opinions. I think it's cool you can enjoy the movie, that's great, but it's just not my thing and I'd rather have seen another movie like the 1st if there HAD to have been a sequel. But whatever, it got made, it is like it is, and nothing can be done about it. It's just good to rant sometimes that's all. :)

Quiller-Bee

08-25-2003, 09:27 PM

I think the new cartoon is more childish then the second movie..and we all seem to like it...right?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:embarass: :embarass: :embarass:

GK Punk

08-26-2003, 03:31 AM

HorseTechie

08-26-2003, 07:04 AM

I don't mind Keno at all. I guess the movie needed someone pasides danny to be the Kid charater. Nothing wrong with a Japenese Kid in it. Please don't bring up race. I never said there was anything wrong with having a Japenese kid in the movie. I think it could've been a really good move it's just that Keno didn't do anything for me. He had (IMHO) no personality or point. I don't like him, he was a waste of space. The writer's could've brought in a really cool kid character with the whole Japenese/Martial Arts background and given him a bit of depth, yet we got Keno instead.
Piff.. I liked Keno as a character. Made the movie a little more worthwhile to watch! What blew it for me was Vanilla Ice. *shudder*

Of course, I didn't realize the whole ploy that Ernie Reyes father had staged just so his son could get an acting part until a year or so ago. Oh... and I dunno if it really matters for the movie or not, but Ernie is actually Phillipino. :P

But yeah... TMNT2 is just for the kiddies. Gimmie TMNT1 anyday! :evilgrin:

Jephael

08-26-2003, 08:38 AM

To me, the failure of TMNT2 was it's attempt to combine two completely different TMNT stories:

--The appearence of Rocksteady and Bebop from the old cartoon.

--The Utrom saga from the comics

The problem was that this fusion contained neither Bebop and Rocksteady, nor the Utroms!

Personally those two stories wouldn't have fused that well anyway.

That was always my biggest problem with the film. I remember as a kid wondering why the hell Tokka and Rahzar where there, and why there was no Bebop or Rocksteady -_-

Plus, I had already read some of the Mirage TMNT by this time, and Didn't Understand why
A: TCRI became TGRI
B: Why were there no Utroms in the TGRI bulding.

I can fill that one for ya. At the time they made the movie, there actually was a company called TCRI, so they couldn't use those initials or else there would be a great deal of legal problems.
As for the Utroms, it was obvious that they couldn't be used since they looked a great deal like Krang.

cqb101

08-26-2003, 01:28 PM

I think the new cartoon is more childish then the second movie..and we all seem to like it...right?

:lol: That's like saying saving private ryan is more childish then dude wheres my car?

J Legault

08-26-2003, 05:48 PM

Not this again...The sequal might be off balance but i don't see anything bad in it. sure it contains Comedy but nothing wrong to me. If it did awful howcome on the back of my VHS Box said better than the First.
Because that is someone's opinion. Doesn't mean they're right, doesn't mean some of us are wrong. They feel it's the best, but it doesn't mean it IS the best. Though of course anyone who does think it's the best has the perfect right to that and I don't see anyone getting bashed for that belief.

I don't mind Keno at all. I guess the movie needed someone pasides danny to be the Kid charater. Nothing wrong with a Japenese Kid in it. Please don't bring up race. I never said there was anything wrong with having a Japenese kid in the movie. I think it could've been a really good move it's just that Keno didn't do anything for me. He had (IMHO) no personality or point. I don't like him, he was a waste of space. The writer's could've brought in a really cool kid character with the whole Japenese/Martial Arts background and given him a bit of depth, yet we got Keno instead.

Tokka and Rahzar, yes two dumb Mutated animal they don't bother me ether so some of you might as well let that past.No sorry I won't "let it pass". I strongly dislike Tokka and Rahzar and I'll say so as often as I like. Free speech and all that. :)

When I first saw the movie on Video I didn't even know who Vanilla Ice is.Nothing wrong with that. *shrugs*

i don't care what you you what's wrong with the sequal, They are still my favorite. and there's no Wrong thing about it.YOU think there is nothing wrong with it, *I* think it sucks. We'll have to agree to disagree here and except each other's opinions. I think it's cool you can enjoy the movie, that's great, but it's just not my thing and I'd rather have seen another movie like the 1st if there HAD to have been a sequel. But whatever, it got made, it is like it is, and nothing can be done about it. It's just good to rant sometimes that's all. :)

Other people like me have different thoughts. Man maybe shredder should of died in part 3 and part 3 would have a different plot.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-26-2003, 06:44 PM

I can fill that one for ya. At the time they made the movie, there actually was a company called TCRI, so they couldn't use those initials or else there would be a great deal of legal problems.
As for the Utroms, it was obvious that they couldn't be used since they looked a great deal like Krang.
I would tell the "real" TCRI to go fornicate with themselves, because TCRI is what it's called in the comic and the comic came before the company! If anything TCRI should have the legal problems!

Also, I think they should have thrown the "Krang-thing" to the wind, and used the Utroms! I mean, it wasn't a problem when they used a closer to the comic origin story for the first movie.

Donatello007

08-26-2003, 06:53 PM

I think the new cartoon is more childish then the second movie..and we all seem to like it...right?
I dont know about that. I definately think that the new cartoon is oriented to more of an older audience than the 2nd movie and the old toon. It was probably designed for like 7 to 12 year olds where as the old one and the movie was probably for a slightly younger audience. (Even though people of all ages watch all of these)

RskimB

08-27-2003, 12:18 PM

Personally even as a kid i seemed to prefer the original better, but at the time i still enjoyed it even if i didn't like it as much. Now i can see that the second film is pretty awful though. I can't even watch it anymore its too kid oriented with none of the things that made the 1st great. I mean the 1st had good humor that wasn't forced or too silly, decent action, and good story. I don't think the first movie is all that violent(no blood, no death, Leo, Raph, and even Mikey really dont even use their weapons except for defense), the only thing parents really could've complained about is the language.

The first movie is far more superior IMO i still have the VHS and plan on getting the dvd; i just saw it again yesterday and it still holds up pretty well after all these years. I never even bothered with tmnt 2.

Karpo_007

08-27-2003, 12:22 PM

Same with me, Liked it as a kid, don't really want to watch it anymore. And no, The first movie isn't very violent, but it seems it was to violent for some parents. Most of the weapon use takes place in the battle with Shredder, they show how Leo hit Shredder's arm etc.

Jephael

08-27-2003, 12:29 PM

There was death in the movie though. Remember the backflash when Saki killed Yoshi and Teng Shen? I can definitly see how that could've upset parents.

Karpo_007

08-27-2003, 01:23 PM

True, and It was pretty graphical.

jeff the cheff

08-27-2003, 02:13 PM

I think the new cartoon is more childish then the second movie..and we all seem to like it...right?

:lol: That's like saying saving private ryan is more childish then dude wheres my car?

No its not. The new cartoon is for children just like the second movie. Did you see the promo for the new episodes on fox? It jokingly says how serious they are...then it says they aren't so serious.

Karpo_007

08-27-2003, 02:17 PM

It's is suitable for children, not made for them. There is a big diffrence. And this is not even something that can be debated about. Same with Batman TAS, Beyond and JLA for example.

Misfit

08-27-2003, 03:08 PM

There is a big diffrence. And this is not even something that can be debated about. Same with Batman TASI'd actually say that some of B:TAS is certainly not suitable for kids. Some episodes, mainly the early ones, are VERY graphic for a cartoon, especially in the violence department. The storylines were also heavy handed and nothing was dumbed down.

To see what I mean check out the amazing two-parter episode "Two Face" if you can.

Karpo_007

08-27-2003, 03:14 PM

Heh I have watched the whole series. Here it aired Saturday mornings. I still say it's suitable for children, if a villain falls down from a roof, the camera instantly shows how he lands on a tree and that kind of stuff. So it was dumbed down.

New TMNT has had the few deaths to, altough the death blow is never shown. A fun detail I noticed was that in Shredder Strikes back part 1, when to foot retreat and fall of a roof, the don't show any miracle save.

I think both are suitable for children, but Batman TAS does more mature themes. Beyond would probably be better for comparison.

Leo656

08-27-2003, 03:39 PM

I remember being like 11 when Batman: TAS came out and I was totally thrown by how dark it was and how much implied violence there was when it first started. I kinda stopped keeping up on it for a while after the third season or so, but the first few episodes were total "Holy Sh*t" stuff when I was a kid. Considering the last animated version of Batman before that was the one in Super-Friends, that's not hard to believe.

Karpo_007

08-27-2003, 03:44 PM

Yes, the show was pretty exceptional when it came out. They really showed to everyone how cartoons are done.

Leo656

08-27-2003, 03:49 PM

I think that version of Batman is really close to the perfect vision of what Batman is like. That show and the first movie.

Speaking of, did you ever notice there were little things about the show and the movie that kind of crossed over? Like in one episode, a doctor at Arkham Asylum was naming several Bat-villains who were incarcerated at Arkham, and the Joker was referred to as "Jack Napier". I thought that was kinda neat.

Karpo_007

08-27-2003, 03:52 PM

Yeah, but that's no wonder since the success of the movie spawned the series. In some levels I think it's even better than the movies[Speaking of the first two natrually]. I still think that Mask of Phantasm is the best Batman movie ever made.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-27-2003, 11:45 PM

Agreed!

And, the new TMNT is a mixed bag.
All the Shredder Eps. are all pretty dramatic.
Nano was actually quite disturbing.

But, most of the time the Turtles themselves are acting silly, and everything else is dead serious.

Karpo_007

08-28-2003, 04:47 AM

Yeah, in the New Show the TMNT really act like Teenagers.

RskimB

08-28-2003, 06:16 AM

my mistake i forgot the tang shen scene and leo getting shredder's arm.

can't believe i missed that after just seeing the movie :goofygri:

Leo656

08-28-2003, 11:10 AM

I still remember being in the theater when the movie came out, and was all like 'Holy sh*t, he cut him!" when Leo sliced Shredder's arm. I was totally not expecting that.

Karpo_007

08-28-2003, 11:16 AM

I was still a kid [7 I think] When I first saw the movie and I tought it was awesome the fights were, especially the one with Shredder. Since I was used to the cartoon I wasn't excpecting anything like that.

Leo656

08-28-2003, 11:23 AM

Yeah the stuff that stood out for me the first time was 1) wondering where Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady were, 2) wondering why Splinter and Shredder's origins were different from the cartoon, and 3) being surprised that there was so much language in a movie based on a kids' cartoon.

Suffice to say my TMNT knowledge was extremely limited at the time. Outside of the cartoon and the Archie comic I knew nothing.

Karpo_007

08-28-2003, 11:27 AM

Same with me. I didn't know anything about Mirage at that time.Well before I watched the movie I had heard that there was no Krang, Bebop or Rocksteady so I wasn't really disapointed.

Leo656

08-28-2003, 11:32 AM

I remember hearing that there was another, black n white TMNT comic back then that supposedly preceded the cartoon, but no shops around here carried anything except issue 1, first print. So I was Mirage-less until I won an issue playing one of those wheel games at the Boardwalk (actually, after about 7 bucks of losses the guy running the game took pity on me and just let me have it, heheh). The issue was right in the middle of the "City at War" arc, so I had NO idea what was going on, but I was glad to have it anyway. Then two years ago I found my current comic shop and bought every Mirage, Image and Archie TMNT comic they had. I'm a little behind on reading though. I still prefer the Archie comic since I'm more familiar with it, but I like the storytelling in the Mirage books.

And Image I just thought sucked.

Karpo_007

08-28-2003, 11:39 AM

It was few years after the movie I read ab article about the TMNT. Thats where I first learned about Mirage comics, but since it was never released in Finland I had no means of getting any issues.

It was about year and a half ago I returned to the TMNT fandom, registered here, Downloaded the whole old cartoon and bought every issue of Mirage. I like achie too, I own almost every issue release, altough they are all in Finnish.

Leo656

08-28-2003, 11:41 AM

What I loved about Archie was that while it started out as a direct adaptation of the cartoon, it went its own way and really "grew up". I was mad when it got cancelled, especially since it was so abrupt. That series definitely deserved a better ending.

So did the Image series, but... I prefer to pretend the whole thing never happened.

Karpo_007

08-28-2003, 11:47 AM

As a kid I always prefered archie over the cartoon, it had very good stories most of the time. Haven't read thos books in years tough... Im sure they are still around somewhere.

From the few issues of Image I have seen, I can say that I don't like it. Mainly because of all the mutilations. Im glad it doesn't belong to the Mirage continuity anymore.

Leo656

08-28-2003, 11:49 AM

Yeah, I think the long-running joke amongst TMNT fans is that it's good for Mikey that the Image series ended when it did, otherwise he woulda probably been castrated. :lol:

jeff the cheff

08-28-2003, 11:53 AM

the new cartoon is kind of a childrens show. It is not made for adults or anything. I love the new show just as much as the next guy but it is just like the second movie... which wasnt as bad as everyone says it is.

Karpo_007

08-28-2003, 11:53 AM

:lol: Yeah...

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 05:09 PM

jeff the cheff

08-28-2003, 05:18 PM

No...its a cartoon.

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 05:39 PM

Yes, that's right, it is a cartoon . . . and your point is? If you'll take that Mikey mask off you'll see more clearly that the cartoon has more of an edge to it than TMNT II did. :D

cqb101

08-28-2003, 05:48 PM

No...its a cartoon.

Do you know what else is a cartoon? Family Guy, south Park, simpsons, etc. Those shows are cartoons, but that doesn't mean they're meant for children.

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 05:53 PM

No...its a cartoon.

Do you know what else is a cartoon? Family Guy, south Park, simpsons, etc. Those shows are cartoons, but that doesn't mean they're meant for children.

Exactly . . . not to mention Heavy Metal or a huge chunk of anime. They're aiming the new cartoon at older TMNT fans along with the kiddies of today.

jeff the cheff

08-28-2003, 05:55 PM

Yes, that's right, it is a cartoon . . . and your point is? If you'll take that Mikey mask off you'll see more clearly that the cartoon has more of an edge to it than TMNT II did.

Not by that much. I think tmnt 2 was made for both audiences too.

Dr. Doom

08-28-2003, 05:58 PM

I don't think he was implying that all cartoons are made for kids. What he's saying is true. It is a children's show. Mainly in that it's marketed towards children. Does that stop us? no. Hell, I watch Cartoon Network all the time, mosta that is aimed towards kids, just like the new show and just like the second movie. But certain shows are also made with non-children in mind, or in the case of TMNT, die hard fans. No kids today would remember the old cartoon that well, much less the original mirage series. Who do you think alla that stuff is for? Just because something is marketed towards kids, doesn't mean that it's like a sin for someone mature to enjoy it. If there was no quality to be drawn from the new show or II, then I wouldn't be here right now talking.

cqb101

08-28-2003, 06:01 PM

I don't think he was implying that all cartoons are made for kids. What he's saying is true. It is a children's show. Mainly in that it's marketed towards children. Does that stop us? no. Hell, I watch Cartoon Network all the time, mosta that is aimed towards kids, just like TMNT and just like the second movie. But certain shows are also made with non-children in mind, or in the case of TMNT, die hard fans. No kids today would remember the old cartoon that well, much less the original mirage series. Who do you think alla that stuff is for? If there was no quality to be drawn from the new show or II, then I wouldn't be here right now talking.

But what jeff is saying is that the new toon is just as kiddie as the second movie, which it isn't at all. Not even close.

Dr. Doom

08-28-2003, 06:04 PM

I think they're on the same level. The difference you're probably noticing is the time peroid. The world was quite a different place 12 years ago. And, yanno, this is ignoring the whole Vanilla Ice thing.

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 06:05 PM

I personally don't even think that the issue is whether or not the cartoon is a kids' show or not . . . it's on the Fox Box, for Christ's sake, so I think we all know who the primary target audience is. Still, there are varying levels of maturity in content for kids' shows and movies, and the level is a bit higher in the new 'toon than in TMNT II in practically every way. Saying that the two are basically the same just ain't true.

Dr. Doom

08-28-2003, 06:07 PM

Well, that's your opinion, not mine. While there is the whole Vanilla Ice thing, along with Super Shredder, and Keno was kinda stupid too, I'd still say that they were pretty much on generally the same level, more or less. I dunno, I guess I'm just really good at ignoring the crappy stuff in favor of enjoying the more.....err.....enjoyable stuff in the movie. The fact that I can allow myself to be so ignorant of that stuff may warp my view of the movie as it would be compared to others. But still, I stand by my previous statement. Yanno, more or less.

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 06:16 PM

I'm not saying that the difference here is as great as Saving Private Ryan vs. The Rugrats movie . . . just that the new series has a bit more of a darker and (sometimes) more serious tone to it than TMNT II.

Dr. Doom

08-28-2003, 06:18 PM

What about the constant wisecracking tho? I don't think it's any secret that II was a lot more comedy based than the frst one.

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 06:29 PM

Nope, no secret . . . and for me, one of its biggest setbacks. With a couple of exceptions, I never found the “comedy” to be consistently funny. The first movie—as well as the new cartoon—suit my personal tastes much better.

Dr. Doom

08-28-2003, 06:34 PM

Well now you're just trying to make me sound immature. That's real nice. Listen, I dunno why the hell I like II so much with alla that crap innere when I'm fully aware of it, I just do. Everything kinda points in the direction that I should be saying the same thing as you, but I ain't, which is kinda frustrating. It's probably Adam Carl. Corey Feldman sucks as Donny. Whatever, I'm sicka this crap already. You got your opinion, I got mine. Let's just leave it at that.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-28-2003, 06:44 PM

IMO the new cartoon is for all ages(kids AND adults) like the first movie, and not for-kids-only like TMNT II, or adults only like the original comic. A balance, if you will.

Quiller-Bee

08-28-2003, 06:45 PM

No way, bro, I'm not trying to make you sound like anything. There's no need to get defensive and take this all personally or anything. Like you said, you've got your opinions, and I've got mine. That's what we're here to discuss, right? This is no fight, man. There are no harsh feelings on my part, anyway. If you like II, you like II . . . and that's cool, no matter what I or anyone else says about the movie. None of it on my part is intended as a dig on you as a person or your level of maturity. For what it's worth, you seem okay to me.

Dr. Doom

08-28-2003, 07:10 PM

That's good to know......Sorry I got a little pissed, I guess I kinda wish I thought II sucked, but I don't. Goddamnit, why'd they pick Corey goddamn Feldman for the first one, he blows as Donny!

Karpo_007

08-29-2003, 04:28 AM

Themes in the new show are much more mature than in the second movie. Family is just one of them. And of course there are the few off screen death scenes. New show is more or less on the same level as the first movie.

jeff the cheff

08-29-2003, 11:55 AM

I loved Donny's voice in the first one...I dont know why but it was my favirote voice of all of them.

mikey0

08-29-2003, 12:49 PM

I own that movie. I really like the plot.

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-29-2003, 01:05 PM

PWP?

Anarchistguy

08-29-2003, 09:01 PM

You guys probably don't care but did you see how FAT the Foot soldiers looked in the TMNT vs. Foot Soldiers at TGRI ?

Tetsu Deinonychus Power-5

08-29-2003, 09:05 PM

Yeah, they were pretty chunky for Runaway teens turned Ninja henchmen. I think they just dug up some cheap extras for the group scenes and used maybe two stunt-doubles for the action scenes.

Dr. Doom

08-30-2003, 04:43 AM

Well that one that catches the canister and is all like "AAAH-HAAAA!" Is kinda large, but I think they did that on purpose.

jeff the cheff

09-02-2003, 02:28 PM

I think a non tmnt fan can watch this movie..but if i was watching the new show with a non-fan...I would feel embarresed at some of the dumb things...i dont feel that way about this movie though.

Jephael

09-02-2003, 05:01 PM

That's what was so great about the movies though. It didn't matter if you never heard about TMNT before, cause the films were set in their own little universe!

spazyk

09-05-2003, 03:32 PM

LEOTMNT

01-19-2012, 12:09 PM

I don't know about you but TMNT II was my fav out of all three TMNT I was to boring for me. TMNT III was just way to cheesy and boring. But I can watch TMNT II over and over and not get sick of it.... I really don't care about all the LITTLE things... the movie is fun to watch... OK now you guys can yell at me... because I like it and you don't

WELL.... Cool! i loved TMNTII as a kid because just that, its a fun movie to watch with the turtles!! that said now...yes, i definitely notice how poorly written it was at moments, whether due to restrains by the fact that it was "dumbed" down for a younger audience or whatever be it. The quality in the suits did steadily decline throughout the movies which was sad and the weapons became laughable accessories. the sound effects as mentioned was also unnecessary. but still a solid TMNT film!

so now TMNT I is has been my favorite for many years now but followed by TMNTII and uh...its a shame they didnt make any more. well the 07TMNT wasnt too bad. And turtles forever.

annnd i just realized that this thread has been dead since 03...

marcelangelo

01-19-2012, 01:21 PM

;)hahahaha

Metropoliskid41

01-19-2012, 01:30 PM

I agree with most of what LEOTMNT said except for the suit decline. I believe that the suits in TMNT II were better for the most part than the suits in TMNT I except for Mikey seeming to be a little more vertically challenged. I thought the expressions and mouth movements were much smoother than the first movie. Its so hard to believe that it went from that to the crapshoot that is TMNT III. Man those turtles look awfully and their mouths are just flapping non stop, they say one word and their lips would flap 10 times.

TMNT II was probably my favorite growing up, I just loved the opening fight scene in the mall, and yeah I notice how dumbed down it seems today but I still find it very enjoyable to watch, but TMNT I is just awesome. Wish they could have carried more of the grittiness from movie I over to number II.

Redeemer

01-19-2012, 01:47 PM

Yeah lol but now its alive and well again thanks 2 u :P

But yeah I pretty much feel the same way

Herald7

01-19-2012, 09:57 PM

To be honest I thought the suits/puppets were a little more creepy looking this time around, lol. I guess they were trying to look more realistic, but sometimes that's not the way to go, lol.

Hermano Dyvas

01-20-2012, 10:51 AM

As a kid I loved this movie, it was definately my favorite back in the day. I remember seeing it at the movies with my dad. As an adult TMNT I is my favorite but I still like TMNT II a lot.

There are 3 things I found dissapointing as a kid I still find dissapointing now.

1. No use of weapons, at one moment Leo teases by pulling half of his swords out of his sheets but they go right back in shortly after. Dissapointing!

2. Tokka and Rahzar. Don't get me wrong, I like their characters but when I saw this movie the first time as a kid and after all this talk about mutagen I was pumped to see, who else, Bebop and Rocksteady on the big screen! So yeah, when it turned out to be 2 different mutants I was dissapointed !

Note to Tatsu: A rhino and a warthog are a lot more dangerous then a dog and a snapper turtle dude.
Shredder: "these were the most dangerous animals you could find?"
Tatsu: "*Noobish acknowledging grunt*"

3. Jordan Perry should've been Baxter Stockman. This issue is not remotely on the same level as the issue with Tokka and Rahzar but I'd lie if I say it never bothered me.

Leo656

01-26-2012, 06:54 AM

Definitely could have chosen more threatening animals to mutate. I always wonder what kinds of off-camera discussions super-villains have when their plans go awry...

SHREDDER: That's the best you could find? Seriously?

TATSU: What's wrong with them?

SHREDDER: Oh, I don't know, maybe I wasn't exactly planning on building a super-mutant out of a cuddly little puppy dog?

TATSU: Woah, okay, first of all, it's not a dog, it's a wolf...

SHREDDER: It's two friggin' weeks old! It's trying to climb into a slipper!

TATSU: Okay, LISTEN, a**hole, you call me at 3 in the morning, "Go find me some animals," every pet store in New York is CLOSED, do you understand that?! So YES, this was the BEST that I could find behind the dumpster at White Castle at 3 in the f*cking morning, OKAY?!

SHREDDER: Why didn't you break into the zoo?

TATSU: Do you listen to yourself? "Why didn't I break into the zoo?" Who the hell breaks into a ZOO?!

SHREDDER: ...Someone could.

TATSU: Like who?

SHREDDER: ......Crazy people...?

TATSU: That's right, crazy people. Crazy people would break into a zoo at 3am, just like crazy people would try and turn a wolf into a... what exactly did you say the plan was?

SHREDDER: I'm building an army of super-mutants to destroy those wretched Turtles!

TATSU: Okay, see, this is why stuff gets screwed up, we don't communicate. If you had TOLD me you wanted animals for some kind of mutant army, I could have done something else entirely.

SHREDDER: What did you THINK I wanted them for?!

TATSU: I thought you were lonely! I thought you wanted a pet! How was I supposed to just KNOW you were going to pump them full of steroids and teach them how to kickbox?

SHREDDER: How would me having a PET help me destroy the turtles?!

TATSU: I thought you wouldn't be so stressed out all the time, yeeeeeesh! Listen buddy, this isn't about me, this is about you. You're over-thinking these plans of yours. We can do better against those turtles. Y'know people actually use guns nowadays?

SHREDDER: I like the idea of fighting giant mutants with giant mutants. We're going with it.

TATSU: Yeah but if you would'a told me... y'know what, nevermind, this is getting us nowhere. How'd the other one turn out?

SHREDDER: The snapping turtle? Ehhhh... did it HAVE to be another turtle? That seems so lazy...

TATSU: Are we back to THIS sh*t again?!

SHREDDER: No, I'm sorry, you're right, you're right, I should have told you what the plan was... but how do we know they're not related?

TATSU: What on Earth are you talking about? How can a wolf and a snapping turtle...?

SHREDDER: NO you idiot, how do we know this one isn't related to the other turtles? Like, we go to unleash these two on them, he recognizes them, turns on us and we're all f*cked royal, y'know?

TATSU: I still say you're thinking too much. This plan f*cking sucks. Let's just shoot the friggin' turtles and get it over with already.

SHREDDER: Where is this coming from?

TATSU: Oh LOOK at you, you make me sick! You and all your theatrical nonsense, call yourself a ninja but you traipse around covered in steak knives for chrissakes... y'know anyone can hear you comiing from a block away with all that crap you wear? How is that stealthy?

SHREDDER: It looks f*cking badass! I had to buy 17 blenders and take metal shop just to put it together, don't you give me sh*t just because I look like a GOD and you walk around in your bathrobe all day, grunting like you're constipated.

TATSU: Y'know what? I hope those turtles kill you, or kill me, because I swear I am NEVER working with you again after this fiasco.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

01-26-2012, 12:41 PM

3. Jordan Perry should've been Baxter Stockman. This issue is not remotely on the same level as the issue with Tokka and Rahzar but I'd lie if I say it never bothered me.

If so, we would have a TMNT universe where Baxter Stockman is a good guy.

ryukenden

01-26-2012, 04:31 PM

As a kid, I first thought Perry was Baxter Stockman.

TonySiegel

01-26-2012, 05:20 PM

Illness:
- the tgri story
- the turtles were still holding it down just like the 1st movie
- hot april
- splinter looked awesome (he took a shower i guess)
- the new lair

Complaints:
- Baxter Stockman should've at least gotten a name drop in this film
- Beebop and Rocksteady would've been grand
- Tokka and Rahzar got defeated way to easily
- movie was a bit to slapstickish
- Shredder was defeated to easily
- why the need for Vanilla Ice?

Redeemer

01-26-2012, 08:05 PM

Sucks balls :x

:P lol weve been over this so many times I think everyone covered every thing

pannoni1

01-26-2012, 08:25 PM

I actually watched this movie the most as a kid since I was raised on the cartoon (I was only 5 when the first movie came out and the cartoon was still where it was at), and I agree with a lot of what others have posted already. Even back then I could remember how distracting the Ninja Rap scene was, it took attention away from the battle and drew toward an artist who at the time had his brief career fall by the wayside. And I'm disappointed in the use of Shredder. I remember confusing the scientist for Baxter given how similar he was in style. I even thought that at the time the movie had continuity with the cartoon, despite April working for Channel 3, thinking that they don't really watch the cartoon.

Herald7

01-26-2012, 08:39 PM

despite April working for Channel 3

I still remember seeing the 1st movie in the theater and whispering to my Dad, "But she works for Channel 6!" Dad of course said "Shhh!" and I was left confused, Lol :lol:

cartoonistaaron

01-28-2012, 10:33 AM

Man talk about bumping an old thread!

I wish if the 2nd movie was gonna take cues from the cartoon, they had just gone all-out and adapted the cartoon. I think that would have been a ton of fun. But barring that, I wish they at least had kept April and Corey Feldman, and Raph's original Movie I voice.

Also, watching it today and knowing what I know now, it feels like Peter Laird got way too involved, trying to "fix it" or keep it from turning into the cartoon. I felt cheated, as a kid, when I saw it the first time and realized Rocksteady and Bebop weren't in it.

Hermano Dyvas

01-28-2012, 11:12 AM

Jephael

02-16-2012, 10:32 AM

That would've been kinda cool!

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

03-05-2012, 01:13 PM

That would've been kinda cool!

OK. Do you want Shredder to steal his mousers (if they were in the movieverse).

Killer Moth

03-05-2012, 06:17 PM

OK. Do you want Shredder to steal his mousers (if they were in the movieverse).

That would make for a fun visual -- Foot Ninja stealing little toothy robots. Anyway, the 2003 series had Baxter initially working for the Shredder, which actually made some sense, storytelling-wise. Not that I don't like Baxter as an independent operator, yet his character shines best working with someone else, be it Shredder, Bishop, etc.

As I recall, Feldman was in rehab when the second movie was filmed, so he obviously couldn't voice Don. He came back in the third movie, so all was well.

I'll discuss about Tokka and Rahzar in another post, but I do want to say Leo656's post was too funny beyond words.

"You and all your theatrical nonsense, call yourself a ninja but you traipse around covered in steak knives for chrissakes... y'know anyone can hear you comiing from a block away with all that crap you wear?"

I can't stop laughing. Hah.

Logan

03-05-2012, 06:53 PM

I like SotO. I do have the pretty much all the same qualms with it that everyone else here has.

The Shredder was underused, in my opinion. I would've loved an actual fight scene between him and the boys. But I liked his new helmet and he was still imposing. Also, the "babies" line is made that much funnier by that voice.

Killer Moth

03-05-2012, 07:09 PM

The Shredder was underused, in my opinion. I would've loved an actual fight scene between him and the boys. But I liked his new helmet and he was still imposing. Also, the "babies" line is made that much funnier by that voice.

The Super Shredder scene was pretty intense, yet it doesn't compared after the first film's fight. I agree. Or did you mean his "training" Tokka or Rahzar? Asking on your use of "boys."

Agreed about his design, both normal and Super Shredder. Why couldn't Playmates made a better looking figure of the latter that was of scale with the main line? Just not as awe-inspiring as I hoped it would be. I blame the lack of mega-muscles, height issues and no cape, myself.

David McCharen's use of "Naaagh!" sold me most about the line. Short of Avery, could anyone else pulled that off? Quick, someone get Scottie Ray to say, "They're babies! Naargh!"

Matches Malone

03-05-2012, 07:35 PM

3. Jordan Perry should've been Baxter Stockman. This issue is not remotely on the same level as the issue with Tokka and Rahzar but I'd lie if I say it never bothered me.

I think what they had in mind originally were the Utrom scientists who were behind the mutagen in the comics. By the time it was clear they weren't going to do the Utrom reveal at the end of the movie, it was probably pointless to go back and change Jordan Perry into a different character. A lot of missed opportunities in this movie is kind of the ongoing theme here...

If so, we would have a TMNT universe where Baxter Stockman is a good guy.

Not necessarily. It's possible there could have been a reveal of his own evil ambitions at the end of the movie; even setting it up for a sequel!

Leo656

03-06-2012, 02:46 AM

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

03-06-2012, 05:36 AM

I think what they had in mind originally were the Utrom scientists who were behind the mutagen in the comics. By the time it was clear they weren't going to do the Utrom reveal at the end of the movie, it was probably pointless to go back and change Jordan Perry into a different character. A lot of missed opportunities in this movie is kind of the ongoing theme here...

Not necessarily. It's possible there could have been a reveal of his own evil ambitions at the end of the movie; even setting it up for a sequel!

Can you do that (revealing Utrom) in a live action movie? Not knowing of Mirage as a kid, I thought Krang wasn't in the movieverse just because technical difficulties.

plasticturtle

03-06-2012, 11:47 AM

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

03-06-2012, 12:13 PM

I have the same problems with SoTO that everyone else has. But I still can't hate it. I don't think it's near as good as the original, but I still kind of enjoy it. 3 is worse than 2 but I can't really hate that one either.

As a kid, I adored the change to movie 2 and 3, because they were more like the 1987 cartoon-Archie Comics, giving them more "real TMNT feel", not knowing of Mirage.

Mutant_Hero_Turtle95

03-06-2012, 04:52 PM

Its funny this movie got me into the TMNT in the first place so I have to say that I like this movie and grateful that I saw it or I would'nt be here.

Killer Moth

03-07-2012, 02:43 PM

Can you do that (revealing Utrom) in a live action movie? Not knowing of Mirage as a kid, I thought Krang wasn't in the movieverse just because technical difficulties.

Back then, other than the diehard Mirage fans, the main audience likely would have been too young to realize or appreciate the difference. (It certainly includes myself, as I would have been confused.) It isn't like we had the internet (it was around back then, but nothing like today) and multiple media to show that an Utrom doesn't necessarily equal Krang. When you're young and you have only the OT, Archie and a few other venues, you draw the conclusions you have. So, I can't blame the producers for doing what they did. These days, it would be more unforgivable, as we had the 2003 series and everyone now has somewhat of an idea about the Mirage characters or about the Utroms.

I had the same issue with Karai and the Tournament Fighter games, and then I did the research when I was older. It was really neat and subtle to include her, yet, again, confused me at the time. It happens.

Edit: I'll address Leo's post in another post. Mainly, as I have a long answer, but I'll save for it later.

RadicalPat

03-07-2012, 05:18 PM

I would lie if I said I didn't like tokka and rahzar.. I loved them as a kid, and they're some of my favorite characters even now.

I think the only think I really disliked was the lack of weapon use, and the lack of casey jones.

The whole vanilla ice part was kind of a guilty pleasure for me.

Magneto

03-07-2012, 05:56 PM

When I think of TMNT II, I always think of how as a kid I had a Super Shredder action figure, but wanted movie Shredder as well. Didn't matter if it was the 1990 Shredder, or 1991 Shredder with the modified helmet and scars. *sigh*

lizard6king6

03-07-2012, 06:00 PM

As a kid, I adored the change to movie 2 and 3, because they were more like the 1987 cartoon-Archie Comics, giving them more "real TMNT feel", not knowing of Mirage.

Exactly. Nowadays though the first movie is amazing and the other two, not so much. But I still enjoy them. Amazing how your views change as you age :)

Killer Moth

03-07-2012, 08:24 PM

Thanks Killer Moth, that's the kinda stuff I say out loud to my girlfriend when we watch that movie sometimes nowadays, just for laughs. That movie's way better when you turn off the sound and do your own dialog. Although "Traditional Pre-Fight Dounts" is never NOT funny.

And yeah, that flick needed way more Shredder. In the first movie he's all Darth Vader-ey and killin' fools, and he would'a killed all four of the Turtles if Splinter never showed up. In the sequel, he doesn't... really... do anything. And when he finally does, he still doesn't. He jobbed to a buncha logs.

Understandable. I tend to do that or do a MST3K-like treatment often with present-day films. I suppose I could do that with SOTO, except A) it's an easy target and B) it isn't Casablanca. They set out to make an enjoyable-albeit-very-dopey film, and so they did. Besides, why pile on, when everyone else online or film critics have already done so? Your bit was funny, as I certainly thought in-context, 'why a wolf and snapping turtle? Your evil ninja army couldn't do better?' Not that I dislike Tokka and Rahzar by any means, yet it doesn't prevent the thought from occurring.

I noticed how sparse Shredder was used in the first movie, saving him up for the big finale. Conversely, he's up and about within SOTO's first 20 minutes, spreading him a little thin when it came to the fighting. Super Shredder was still awesome, but as you said, "he jobbed to a bunch of logs." Oh, well, that's why we have the video games. You won't think that of him after the Manhattan Project, at the very least. (I know I didn't.)

Agreed about "Traditional Pre-Fight Dounts." I'm surprised that joke hasn't appeared in other media, elsewhere. Oh, well, it's an opportunity, joke writers....

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

03-09-2012, 05:14 AM

Back then, other than the diehard Mirage fans, the main audience likely would have been too young to realize or appreciate the difference. (It certainly includes myself, as I would have been confused.) It isn't like we had the internet (it was around back then, but nothing like today) and multiple media to show that an Utrom doesn't necessarily equal Krang. When you're young and you have only the OT, Archie and a few other venues, you draw the conclusions you have. So, I can't blame the producers for doing what they did. These days, it would be more unforgivable, as we had the 2003 series and everyone now has somewhat of an idea about the Mirage characters or about the Utroms.

I had the same issue with Karai and the Tournament Fighter games, and then I did the research when I was older. It was really neat and subtle to include her, yet, again, confused me at the time. It happens.

Edit: I'll address Leo's post in another post. Mainly, as I have a long answer, but I'll save for it later.

But if you did this?

"Reveal the Utrom, and having him say he's Krang from Dimension X. This would give us a TMNTversion where Krang is a good guy, but we had the same with some of the Mutanimals in Archie."

ssjup81

03-09-2012, 11:50 PM

When I was a kid, movie 2 was my favorite because of the slapstick (I grew up with the OT series). I even enjoyed the dance club scene. Even as an adult, I get a kick out of movie 2, despite its cheesiness, but I do notice the problems with the film more. The main problem I had with movie 2 as a kid (and still do now) was how Super Shredder was defeated. I mean, in Turtles in Time/Hyperstone Heist Super Shredder was so challenging! In the movie, a dock fell on him. I was hopeful that in movie 3, he'd be back to get his revenge and that he didn't actually die. I mean, it's not like the turtles actually fought him and at the end of movie 1, when he wasn't "super" he survived being crushed inside of a garbage truck.

The other thing I didn't pay much attention to, until I was slightly older (when I was a teen), was the fact that none of their weapons were used. I was so amused by the slapstick, I don't know how I didn't notice it when originally seeing it.

Let's see, as a kid, what else did I like...ah, Keno. I loved his character for some reason. I liked how he could fight and found him cute. :P

I didn't notice the April change.

I remembered wondering where Casey was, but didn't think much of it since, at that time, I didn't recall much of the first film other than Casey was in it.

I was expecting Bebop and Rocksteady as opposed to Tokka and Razaa.

I can't remember if I ever viewed the professor as Baxter or not.

Now, stuff that I've noticed since revisiting the film...

The acting by the extras in the dance club scene was just awful.

The dance club scene was unnecessary...but only because Vanilla Ice started to freestyle the Ninja Rap (and yet, I still have a soft spot for this entire scene).

I just can't dislike movie 2, it seems despite its cheesiness.

Go ninja, go ninja go! :tlol:

Now, movie 3 on the other hand, I hated that one as a kid since there was no Shredder and that his defeat in movie 2 was a royal gyp. I liked the premise of movie 3, just felt the execution was terrible. Them traveling was very nice. Reminiscent of Turtles in Time.

Mr._Mutant_Man

03-10-2012, 12:58 AM

I've flipped through the Secret of the Ooze movie novelization.

I think one of my favorite parts is on the first page.

"He (Keno) wondered how she (April) could eat so much pizza and still be so thin".

That's a question that everyone who knew April must have been asking themselves.:)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

03-10-2012, 03:57 AM

Killer Moth

03-10-2012, 04:28 PM

But if you did this?

"Reveal the Utrom, and having him say he's Krang from Dimension X. This would give us a TMNTversion where Krang is a good guy, but we had the same with some of the Mutanimals in Archie."

I agree, as that would be a nice change of pace. However, again, would the kiddie audience in '91 have accepted that so easily? You do raise an interesting counterpoint with several Mutanimals being revised in the OT as villains, and how jarring that was in late 1990-91. (If I'm reading your comment right, so feel free to correct me.) The big difference, as we both know, between Krang with the Mutanimals is the former was a major and highly visible antagonist while the latter were one-shots or semi-recurring characters. Back in 91, it would have been far harder to split or appreciate that difference, but then, who knew the OT would do what it did with Mondo Gecko, Man Ray and the rest? That is a good topic into itself, especially with the nostaglia issues.

It all makes for a great What If -- what if Jordan Perry was an heroic version of Krang? I don't know if the 1991 version of myself would have easily accepted that, but the 2012 version would have been quite interested.

I hope I am not repeating myself too much, as it just feels that way, at the moment.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

03-10-2012, 05:41 PM

Mondo Gecko

I love Mondo Gecko, and both of these origins are actually nice.

Maybe movie II should have Utroms from Dimension X, both god and bad, and one of the bad guys would be Krang. It would be explained that a war was raging on their home planet, and when chasing each other by spacecraft from their home planet, they finally crashed on Earth.

In "Four Musketurtles" that first aired back in 1989, we actually saw other aliens like Krang.

Killer Moth

03-10-2012, 07:32 PM

Maybe movie II should have Utroms from Dimension X, both god and bad, and one of the bad guys would be Krang. It would be explained that a war was raging on their home planet, and when chasing each other by spacecraft from their home planet, they finally crashed on Earth.

In "Four Musketurtles" that first aired back in 1989, we actually saw other aliens like Krang.

Good idea. I think the audience probably would accepted that, as an interesting way to split the difference and everyone gets what they want or they avoid enough confusion.

Wonder if Eastman and Laird would have gone there. They had enough influence to omit Bebop and Rocksteady, so would they have accepted a "good Utrom, bad Utrom" split? Given Laird's present issues with Krang, I'm not sure or maybe a more accurate "who knows?"

I forgot about that flashback sequence. A pity that was never followed up, especially as one of them had a old man 'stache. Heh. Guess whomever removed Krang's brain from his body had some practice.