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View Full Version : Why do people obsess over "Same As It Never Was"?!


Jephael
11-06-2014, 09:14 PM
I swear I've seen this story used time in time again in fan comics, artwork and videos! Sometimes people will take it in a more creative direction, like imagining what an older version of Donatello might look like in that scenario or something, but most of the time it's just a blatant rehashing of the scene where Mikey, Leo and Raph all get killed.

Davetello
11-07-2014, 05:00 AM
Probably because people have a liking for more dark and gritty storytelling, as well as time travel or alternate dystopian futures. A large part might be how the latter factor is similar in theme to the Days of Future Past comics, which are very popular.

Personally I really enjoyed SAINW. I thought it was a fantastic episode and my only gripe is that it wasn't a double or triple parter. I liked the time travel episodes in FW as well.

CyberCubed
11-07-2014, 06:43 AM
Because it was a great episode? Its pretty obvious the most talked about episodes of ANY series tend to be the best written ones.

TheBlueTurtle1
11-07-2014, 07:00 AM
It was awesome, thats why.

Whatswiththeheadbands?
11-07-2014, 07:46 AM
Because it's one of the best 2k3 episodes, and one of the best episodes in TMNT Episode history IMO

Xiewin
11-07-2014, 09:23 AM
For me it's mostly due to the emotional aspects of the episode.

DarkLightDragon
11-07-2014, 03:36 PM
Like most have said already, it was a dark and emotional episode as well as demonstrating how 2k3 could really push boundaries of what is deemed acceptable in a "kid's show." It's not common practice to have all or most of your protagonists get killed off for good, regardless of it being 'just a possible future' or not.

Plus, it was only place that wasn't in another dimension that the other Turtles went to.

Mikey- Super Turtles
Raph- Planet Racers
Leo- Usagi's world
Don- A potential future where Shredder rules a dictatorial regime.

*One of these things was not like the others*
*One of these things just takes you off guard*

Rooish
11-07-2014, 05:23 PM
I think people love it because the older Turtles were so badass boss awesome, and because it was dark. Its script is pretty cheesy and unoriginal though.

snake
11-07-2014, 05:28 PM
It was a dark and well written episode.

Refractive Reflections
11-08-2014, 01:36 AM
As most have said, it's one of the most prominent dark episodes where in this alternate reality there IS no happy ending. It's a bleak, pessimistic future, especially at the end of the episode with Mikey, Raph, and Leo dying. It of course has deeper themes of tragedy and despondency, which is not expected for most "kids" cartoons or with TMNT cartoons in general.

As for why it's used in so many fan works, I think it's used as a starting point for gloomy TMNT fanworks and used as a cathartic, creative outlet of sorts.

Shark_Blade
11-08-2014, 03:00 AM
I love seeing the gloomy future and the turtles getting killed. I'm sure many others share my dark fascination as well.

This is no different than the stories of where Superman got killed, Robin's death, Batman's murder, etc. We like to see closure of our favorite fictional characters.

I think people love it because the older Turtles were so badass boss awesome, and because it was dark. Its script is pretty cheesy and unoriginal though.I think their design looks awful and they kinda look fat, but it's a terrible future so I just take as it is. Still a treat to see them die.

tmntpower1988
11-08-2014, 11:33 AM
I'd actually like to see a similar episode in the Nick series where the turtles, Casey and Splinter die.

neatoman
11-08-2014, 12:22 PM
It's an interesting episode to be sure, it gives us a look into how the world would be if the Shredder really took over the world. I know the FW cartoon did an episode like that but it was played for laughs, this is sort of the "real" Shredder controls the world episode, his government is opressive, he has enslaved two planets, he will go on to conquer the universe, Splinter and Casey are dead, the turtles have changed for the worse and there's a lot of sacrifice. Yes technically none of it happened in the real timeline but the story is still good, and gives us some insight on what a threat the Shredder really is.

As for the fan fiction? I avoid fanfics since I've never seen a fanfic that's better than mediocre, but I do see traces of this episode in TiT #4.
Still, TiT #4 is very different:

Only Donnie is left of the turtles (the opposite of this episode)
The world is split between Shredder, Krang and maybe Stockman
North America is full of mutants who seem to live in relative peace

Netkeeper
11-09-2014, 03:59 AM
Because it's the best episode.

Warhorse
11-09-2014, 11:46 AM
Because it's the best episode.

I don't think so. I think Tales of Leo is the best. When something happens to actually make Raph cry, speechless. That whole scene of him going to the window and just looking out, one of the best scenes ever for TMNT. I could actually feel his pain at worrying what is going to happen to his brother.

Netkeeper
11-09-2014, 05:31 PM
Nah. It's the best episode.

shuriken
11-09-2014, 05:40 PM
^^ Best? Probably Return to New York part 3. SAINW was just a solid episode. I wouldn't say people obsess over it but would be fantastic to see and explore how the turtles got to the point where they don't communicate or interact with each other, and how far-gone things have become with Shredder ruling the world.

Netkeeper
11-09-2014, 05:48 PM
Nah. SAINW was the best episode.

pennydreadful
11-09-2014, 06:43 PM
There's actually a lot of people who would like to have seen either more SAINW episodes, or even a spinoff arc which showed a bit more of that world.

Myself, I agree that SAINW is a really tight, well-written, dark episode - I rarely watch it or even look at fanart from it because it's too dark for me to handle most of the time; I just get way too mopey afterwards. Yeah, I get emotional over cartoon characters I love being hurt and killed - sue me. :tlol:

PangolinFeets
11-09-2014, 07:21 PM
There's actually a lot of people who would like to have seen either more SAINW episodes, or even a spinoff arc which showed a bit more of that world.

Myself, I agree that SAINW is a really tight, well-written, dark episode - I rarely watch it or even look at fanart from it because it's too dark for me to handle most of the time; I just get way too mopey afterwards. Yeah, I get emotional over cartoon characters I love being hurt and killed - sue me. :tlol:

I was never a big fan of the 4kids show, but I went back and watched it after it was hyped as being the best episode ever ever ever and it fell short for me. I mean, its dark and its interesting to see what happens in that potential future of that universe, but I guess I need to be more invested in the 4kids version for it to be truly impact-ful.

I feel like if there were more episodes or if it was a mini series in its own right that explained and fleshed out everything that was happening, I might have been more into it.

pennydreadful
11-09-2014, 08:05 PM
Good point; I guess it would've probably been harder to be as invested if you're not as hugely into 2k3. I think that a miniseries, either animated or in comic form, would've been really well-received by the fans.

Netkeeper
11-10-2014, 03:16 AM
Yeah, that episode isn't going to hold as much meaning to someone that doesn't care about 2k3 or hasn't watched a lot of it. Whenever I show the series to my friends, I tell them not to watch that episode out of context. Wait for it.

pennydreadful
11-10-2014, 03:52 PM
Or don't watch it at all, unless you want to end up sobbing in the foetal position. :P

Seriously man, I know this gets said all the time, but I'm getting so jack of waiting for this show to be released on dvd. Literally, what do I have to do? I'M DESPERATE. I WILL SELL MY BONE MARROW.

Netkeeper
11-10-2014, 04:59 PM
Same, basically. Time to hit up the black market guys.

Coola Yagami
11-10-2014, 07:21 PM
Or don't watch it at all, unless you want to end up sobbing in the foetal position. :P

Seriously man, I know this gets said all the time, but I'm getting so jack of waiting for this show to be released on dvd. Literally, what do I have to do? I'M DESPERATE. I WILL SELL MY BONE MARROW.

Don't you mean re-released...? Pretty sure it was released back in the day.

Warhorse
11-10-2014, 11:05 PM
Nah. SAINW was the best episode.

Not it's not, that's just your opinion. Shredder Strikes Back parts 1 and 2, Tales of Leo and Exodus 1 and 2 are better.

pennydreadful
11-10-2014, 11:11 PM
Don't you mean re-released...? Pretty sure it was released back in the day.

True dat - ok, I'll reword: re-released and all seasons actually available. :) Preferably a nice big box set of all seasons, with lots of special features and commentary.

That would be worth a lot of bone marrow.

Powder
11-10-2014, 11:36 PM
Not it's not, that's just your opinion. Shredder Strikes Back parts 1 and 2, Tales of Leo and Exodus 1 and 2 are better.

No they're not, that's just your opinion.

See how that works? This is a forum, & most of you are actually sharing opinions, in fact. It's hypocritical for you to say he's wrong & then tell him why as if it's not purely subjective.

Netkeeper
11-11-2014, 04:06 AM
Adding "in my opinion" to any opinion is redundant. Sorry some people don't get that memo.

Jester
11-11-2014, 04:15 AM
We all know the best episode are the ones with Turtle Titan anyway.
[/sarcasm]

evan2000
11-11-2014, 06:20 AM
We all know the best episode are the ones with Turtle Titan anyway.
[/sarcasm]
Actually, even the [/sarcasm] tag isn't necessary in your post. People get it.

Oh wait, not all people :tlol:

MsMarvelDuckie
11-11-2014, 02:13 PM
I really loved SAINW, but I also loved The Monster Hunter, Turtle Titan, and Good Genes. Sons of the Silent Age was another great one, as was The People's Choice. It just depends on your personal taste. In any case, I do think it was one of the best-written episodes, a la 1984, Animal Farm, and other classic dystopian fiction. I think it shows a much more realistic view of what the OT Shredderville TRIED to be. While that one was done mostly for laughs, this one hit home just how big a threat he was.

Davetello
11-11-2014, 09:56 PM
I really loved SAINW, but I also loved The Monster Hunter, Turtle Titan, and Good Genes. Sons of the Silent Age was another great one, as was The People's Choice. It just depends on your personal taste. In any case, I do think it was one of the best-written episodes, a la 1984, Animal Farm, and other classic dystopian fiction. I think it shows a much more realistic view of what the OT Shredderville TRIED to be. While that one was done mostly for laughs, this one hit home just how big a threat he was.

SotSA and TPC were fantastic eps. I really loved those early season 4 episodes based on Northampton. They were Mirage adaptations and Leo's struggles just gave them an extra dimension too. I, Monster and Cousin Sid are also both brilliant.

Jester
11-11-2014, 10:40 PM
Don't get me wrong. I love the 1st Turtle Titan episode...because it wraps up that bit of Mikey at the end. Then they decided to bring Titan back a few to many times. The >> and Back to the Sewer episodes being the worse offenders.

CyberCubed
11-12-2014, 12:31 AM
Don't get me wrong. I love the 1st Turtle Titan episode...because it wraps up that bit of Mikey at the end. Then they decided to bring Titan back a few to many times. The >> and Back to the Sewer episodes being the worse offenders.

Yeah, I think the Season 5 Turtle Titan episode was the best one after the first. Mainly because it also wraps up Nano's storyline too.

IndigoErth
11-12-2014, 12:41 AM
I suppose it's the emotion, but personally I wasn't all that impressed. Though I will admit that I was strongly considering skipping it when I finally watched the series over the summer. Was glad each segment was at least fairly short. Not much of a fan of storylines that suggest the end to them... would much rather that was forever left open ended and unknown.

Only end I could probably accept would be if they ended the entire franchise and killed them off with it. But that would be heartbreaking in that case.

Jester
11-12-2014, 01:00 AM
Yeah, I think the Season 5 Turtle Titan episode was the best one after the first. Mainly because it also wraps up Nano's storyline too.
I'll admit, I really liked Membership Drive.

MsMarvelDuckie
11-12-2014, 01:17 AM
Same here. I don't get why so many dislike Nano. I thought he was a cute, sweet, and kind of sad character. I was glad when he finally got his "happy ending" with the Justice Force. I liked the episodes with them, anyway, and having him join them was just great.

Netkeeper
11-12-2014, 02:30 AM
I loved Nano. The ending of that first episode was just heart-wrenching.

TurtleFan2012
11-14-2014, 02:38 PM
I wonder why Future Ch'rell looks completely different in that episode? You think they would have checked Ch'rell's design before drawing him.

magidkaiser
01-09-2015, 02:02 AM
i like this episode too :trolleye:

Bry
01-09-2015, 08:26 AM
THREAD RESURRECTED.

I mean... yeah, it was a great episode. Definitely one of the best in that series. But it also stands out so much by contrast. Even though the 2003 series went to darker places than most other "mainstream" TMNT stuff, that episode went so full grimdark it was pretty shocking.

I wouldn't want to have seen any more of it, though. It still has so much impact because it was a one-off, I think. It'd lose its specialness if they'd gone back to that well, and they were smart not to.

I loved Nano. The ending of that first episode was just heart-wrenching.

That scream! Man. I remember that being a surprisingly emotional ending for the episode where the Turtles fought Garbage Voltron.

In hindsight, that episode had a lot more going on than one'd expect.

ABrown
01-09-2015, 09:09 AM
Lots of action cartoons have a "what if" episode. The original TMNT cartoon had "Shredderville", or whatever it was called. But this episode, I mean wow. This episode just took it to a whole nother level. There's action cartoons where you sit there and you're rooting for the character because you like the character. But when watching SAINW for the first time, I remember just really wanting the turtles to come out victorious. I remember how badly I wanted them to defeat Shredder for the terrible future he created.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-04-2015, 01:14 AM
Funny, but I just remember staring dumb-struck when Mikey went down. And then Leo, and Raph. Heck, I was even a little shocked on first seeing Mikey with a missing arm. I knew at that point it was gonna be seriously dark. Oddly enough, I LOVED his future bad-@$$ self almost as much as his present-day self!

mrminister4446
02-04-2015, 08:34 AM
Yeah, its a cool episode, sort of gave off a Wolfenstein new order vibe. But as others have pointed out, it didn't need a 2nd episode. I also do not think it was extremely awesome and one of the best, since it didn't leave an impact on me, but it was one of the good ones.

Huzzah
02-04-2015, 02:47 PM
There's a reason I've made multiple customs in various scales of SaiNW Mikey (see my avatar). It's an episode that shows the eternal optimist, most immature, and the most lighthearted can be effected by tragedy. It's awesome seeing Michelangelo as a bad@ss, thar is the driving factor for me loving this episode. Plus, who doesn't love seeing Raph with an eyepatch?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-04-2015, 05:33 PM
I don't think people are so obsessed now. It was more the first years.

909 Turtle Fan
02-05-2015, 02:51 AM
There's a reason I've made multiple customs in various scales of SaiNW Mikey (see my avatar). It's an episode that shows the eternal optimist, most immature, and the most lighthearted can be effected by tragedy. It's awesome seeing Michelangelo as a bad@ss, thar is the driving factor for me loving this episode. Plus, who doesn't love seeing Raph with an eyepatch?


Raph actually has stitches across his eye, not an eye patch. also IMO this was by far the greatest tmnt episode ever. I remember watching it that Saturday morning and being in awe.

Huzzah
02-05-2015, 04:17 AM
True, but I actually just meant that he was one eyed, which is always fun. Haha

909 Turtle Fan
02-05-2015, 03:04 PM
True, but I actually just meant that he was one eyed, which is always fun. Haha

that's right! I hope IDW or nick show him with the one eyed look at some point. also your customs are rad :tgrin:

Huzzah
02-05-2015, 03:45 PM
Thank you much, but if history has shown us anything in the new cartoon, only bad guys have one eye (Shredder, Rocksteady, Tigerclaw), unless they plan to either make Raph evil, or shake up the status quo, I dunno if it'll happen. Now I do see it happening one way or another in the IDW comic though.

Xav
02-05-2015, 07:33 PM
I know the FW cartoon did an episode like that but it was played for laughs, this is sort of the "real" Shredder controls the world episode, his government is opressive, he has enslaved two planets, he will go on to conquer the universe, Splinter and Casey are dead, the turtles have changed for the worse and there's a lot of sacrifice.Shredder enslaved two planets? I thought he only enslaved Earth.
I wonder why Future Ch'rell looks completely different in that episode?Most likely because he was older.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-06-2015, 02:04 AM
He was already over a thousand, what's a few more decades by that point? ALL the Utroms were "old" to begin with at the beginning of the series, they live a REALLY long time. I doubt three more decades would make any difference to appearance. I think it was because it was a different "reality". That was ONE possible future, a la Back To the Future. Like Donnie going into the alternate timeline where Biff was rich, powerful, and married to his mom. Or in this case, Shredder was in control of everything, and Don's family was in pieces.

NoName999
02-07-2015, 08:31 AM
Shredder enslaved two planets? I thought he only enslaved Earth.


He also took over the Utrom homeworld (hence the captured Utroms forcing to work under him) we just don't see it.

DarkLightDragon
02-07-2015, 01:27 PM
He also took over the Utrom homeworld (hence the captured Utroms forcing to work under him) we just don't see it.

Yeah, that was practically where he was planning to strike in upon leaving Earth in Exodus. Heck, some have probably speculated that if the Turtles never intervened and tried stopping him from escaping, he would've come back, with a newly-enslaved Utrom race and all their technology in tow, so he could take over Earth with little struggle, thus leading to the kind of world SAINW is set in.

mrminister4446
02-07-2015, 04:07 PM
Yeah, that was practically where he was planning to strike in upon leaving Earth in Exodus. Heck, some have probably speculated that if the Turtles never intervened and tried stopping him from escaping, he would've come back, with a newly-enslaved Utrom race and all their technology in tow, so he could take over Earth with little struggle, thus leading to the kind of world SAINW is set in.


I do not think it woud be that quick to take the utroms then return to earth. Traveling accross the galaxy is going to take a bit of time, even with triceraton technology. Then he'll have to actually wage a big war, which is going to take loads of time too. So, in my opinion, something else needed to happen in order for that reality to happen, instead of him just managing to leave the planet at that point.

Garfield
02-08-2015, 09:41 AM
because a lot of people are into the grim dark, macabre doom and gloom stuff. That kind of thing is intriguing to a lot of people. I thought SAITW was okay. really liked it the first time I saw it but think its a little ridiculous now. Also the fact that they couldn't do the things they needed that they needed to make that kind of thing show better goof it up for me a little*remember Karai's death scene* utter cheese. blarg!

Spike Spiegel
02-08-2015, 06:55 PM
There's no question of how great this episode was. Time travel stories can do a lot in showing the personalities of certain characters in a different light. To see a Michelangelo that doesn't tell jokes--that was scary.

But personally, I think "Insane in the Membrane" was even grimmer and darker. It was almost like a David Cronenberg film.

Cure
02-08-2015, 08:31 PM
There's no question of how great this episode was.

Of course there's a question. There are many: was it pandering? How much of it was done solely for shock value? Why was it so cliched?

That's just three.

Spike Spiegel
02-08-2015, 10:29 PM
Was it pandering?

No one necessarily wanted to see everyone die at the end. I think the expectation was that Donatello would bring them all together and that they would win the battle easily. That seems like something that would go against fan expectations, as well as the precedent for clean neat endings set by other examples of these kinds of stories (i.e. that episode of "Teen Titans" where Starfire goes to the future).

How much of it was done solely for shock value?

I think a lot of the different aspects of that story built on the characters and their relationships in a logical way, which allowed for the "shocking" stuff.

April is just as steadfast as ever, despite the loss of Casey. Karai's stubbornness and her spurned attraction (?) to Leonardo created a lot of tension that forces you to more closely examine their present-day relationship. The fates of Stockman and Hun hinted at their symbiosis and relation to each other in the dysfunctional family that is the upper management of the Foot Clan (i.e. Shredder is like a narcissistic parent, with Hun as the Golden Child and Stockman as the Scapegoat).

Why was it so cliched?

It was your basic Orwellian future, but the storyline struck me as the kind of thing Donatello might think about a lot, being the most intellectual turtle. Maybe it's like his worst nightmare realized. The episode took the conventions of that type of future and adapted it to the Turtles' lives in a unique way.

Besides, everything's "been done before," right?

jestergoblin
02-11-2015, 11:15 AM
I'd suggest reading the original reaction thread when the episode aired:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=11953 (ignore single-minded posts... and the whole thing in middle)

Here's the big thing about the episode: we didn't know what was coming. We knew the general gist of the episode because of the previous ones, we knew it was Don's turn and the teaser from the previous week told us it was some kind of future where Shredder ruled.

That was all we knew.

There wasn't anything about it being a world without Don, or what happened to the other three. We basically went in blind, expecting something similar to Raph and Mikey's episodes and instead were blindsided by a dystopian story that ended with multiple deaths.

slingtheory
02-12-2015, 10:18 PM
Yeah, that was practically where he was planning to strike in upon leaving Earth in Exodus. Heck, some have probably speculated that if the Turtles never intervened and tried stopping him from escaping, he would've come back, with a newly-enslaved Utrom race and all their technology in tow, so he could take over Earth with little struggle, thus leading to the kind of world SAINW is set in.
Now that you mention it now it's makes even more sense to me how Donnie not being around could lead to shredder taken over. If dons not around for exodus nobody's there to hack open the door on shred heads escape rocket. Not only that but Donatello was the one who grabbed on to the rocket when it was taking off and the others grab on to him to get onboard. No Donnie splinter and the turtles miss the boat and shredder takes over the ultrom home world before coming back to earth with an alien army.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-18-2015, 02:45 AM
There's no question of how great this episode was. Time travel stories can do a lot in showing the personalities of certain characters in a different light. To see a Michelangelo that doesn't tell jokes--that was scary.

^This. While I love his normal personality, seeing Mikey go grim and serious was such a shock- and then I loved his "new" personality just as much. Always kind of wondered how he got that way, though. Would have loved to se a story on that. (IE- maybe an episode that foreshadows SAINW, with Mikey showing hints of that future self beginning to form.)

Mew
02-18-2015, 05:54 AM
^This. While I love his normal personality, seeing Mikey go grim and serious was such a shock- and then I loved his "new" personality just as much. Always kind of wondered how he got that way, though. Would have loved to se a story on that. (IE- maybe an episode that foreshadows SAINW, with Mikey showing hints of that future self beginning to form.)
This personality is more like the original comics, like the tone of the whole show. I mean, obviously Mikey was comic relief, but I always found this Mikey to be less jokey, in this series as a whole. I think it is a nice change from Mikey's usual personality, and found it to be quite enjoyable. The tone, in my viewing at least, was on the level of the 1990 movie. Although, being used to his original personality, it did feel a little weird seeing him be depicted like this.

312
02-22-2015, 11:07 AM
I just watched it for the first time in years, and it was amazing. Everything about it. In fact It just really demonstrated how differently the nick and 2k3 show actually were.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
03-20-2015, 06:42 AM
I just watched it for the first time in years, and it was amazing. Everything about it. In fact It just really demonstrated how differently the nick and 2k3 show actually were.

The Nickelodeon show didn't exist in 2005, so you maybe mean the 1987 cartoon?

Yesterday (or some sources say 17 March 2005) was 10 years since the episode first aired.

Shark_Blade
03-20-2015, 08:43 AM
Because the story is pretty impactful as opposed to other forgettable episodes?

megashredder
03-21-2015, 07:40 PM
shredder ruling the world! Karai-Amazon bot's with rotary canon's?
Foot police, and don't even get me started on Stockman!!

One question?
where are Chaplin and the Elite foot?
did they betray him at one point.


http://s21.postimg.org/qtlvqqasj/TMNT_Same_Karai_Legions.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/qtlvqqasj/)

aliena
05-16-2015, 11:00 PM
I just finished watching SAINW and I was BLOWN AWAY! Hands down one of my favorite episodes of any incarnation. I can't believe they went that dark. And seeing Raph crawl to Leo to die made me cry.

Wow, such a fantastic arc for all the turtles, except Leo's. I did not care for that first part at all. Leo was the only thing I liked about it. And Raph, what a guy. He is the Raph to beat for me. I just can't get enough of him.

BTW, was Leo blind? How come he could see everything he was doing? His Ninja senses can't be that good. Still, he was super hot in that episode.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-17-2015, 12:32 AM
Yes, he was blind, but he had learned to use his other senses to compensate, sort of like Daredevil. Remember when he was blind-fighting in the rain in the Shredder Strikes Back arc? Same thing.

The part that really got to me was Mikey getting cornered by the Karai-bots and calling out to Don right before he died. He was the first to go, and the fact that none of them ever tried to reach him was heartbreaking to me. Like, why didn't Leo or Raph go to him? Even Donnie at least NOTICED he was down! Yet still didn't do anything about it, unlike Raph with Leo. Made me sad to think they basically ignored his death.

pennydreadful
05-17-2015, 12:39 AM
Is anyone curious as to whether there's going to be a SAINW-style episode in the Nick series?

Xav
05-17-2015, 01:18 AM
BTW, was Leo blind?No, in the script he is simply referred to as "Scarred Leo" and there is no mention of him with any kind of vision impairment.

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 05:17 AM
I see Same As It Never Was as an amazing episode, but I do prefer other episodes in the series more. It's one of the darkest and tragic tales in the TMNT franchise and people love gritty and darker material. (ex: Dark Knight over Adam West Batman) We as viewers love to get invested in the story and the more well-written the material, the more we love the story told. The fan art can be annoying but that moment stood out the most, seeing the beloved heroes in a half shell get killed, which is why it's used often.

Personally though, although I find it an amazing episode like others, I still like other episodes more. My personal favorites are the Good Genes arc, Insane in the Membrane, Reality Check, both Enter the Dragons, and the entirety of City at War. Same As It Never Was ranks in my top 20 for the series, but I would say close to my top 10. Still a great episode looking back.

Prowler
05-17-2015, 07:30 AM
Because it was a great episode and also a pretty edgy and mature one considering this was a children's cartoon.

Unworthy tinker
05-17-2015, 11:35 AM
Because, how many other children's cartoons have you seen where several characters are killed on screen? I've sorta been working a (probably never to be) reboot idea with my boyfriend. We compared it to this episode to determine if we went too dark with some things. LOL. But seriously, this episode was deep. I don't blame anyone for loving this episode.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-18-2015, 01:00 AM
No, in the script he is simply referred to as "Scarred Leo" and there is no mention of him with any kind of vision impairment.


And the fact that he not only wore the typical "blind-man" glasses and his FACE was the part that was scarred had nothing to do with it, right? Also, in the few shots where you see his eyes behind the shades, they are most definitely different than the others. Sort of "milky" looking, as opposed to the usual white-out look, indicating they had been damaged somehow. He was definitely blind. Just wasn't hindered by it, apparently. Mikey was also scarred, but there's no question what HIS handicap was. Yet he didn't seem bothered by it. Raph didn't seem too bothered by the fact that he was missing an eye, either. Ninja training, y'now.

ImmaAxolotl
05-18-2015, 11:54 AM
And the fact that he not only wore the typical "blind-man" glasses and his FACE was the part that was scarred had nothing to do with it, right? Also, in the few shots where you see his eyes behind the shades, they are most definitely different than the others. Sort of "milky" looking, as opposed to the usual white-out look, indicating they had been damaged somehow. He was definitely blind. Just wasn't hindered by it, apparently. Mikey was also scarred, but there's no question what HIS handicap was. Yet he didn't seem bothered by it. Raph didn't seem too bothered by the fact that he was missing an eye, either. Ninja training, y'now.

Not to mention that when, given time, anyone could learn to live with their handicap. As far as we know, these guys could have gained those injuries decades ago.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-22-2015, 12:08 AM
Not to mention that when, given time, anyone could learn to live with their handicap. As far as we know, these guys could have gained those injuries decades ago.


True enough, but I figured that part was a given. Getting around normally is one thing, but they were all still FIGHTING with their handicaps. Which means that not only did they have time to get used to them, but to even TRAIN with those handicaps!

xbennoda
05-22-2015, 01:52 PM
It's simple, really... "Same As It Never Was" was the darkest episode TMNT 2003 had to offer. It had a lot of story behind it and it probably happened to the least expected turtle... Don! To be honest, it made me cry :cry: and it messed with my feelings the first time I watched it. It is definitely my favorite one of the whole series of 4KidsTV.

megashredder
06-14-2015, 07:23 PM
Some many thing's to love about this ep good aand bad. Did chrell sample stockmans third sesn armor bot? &amp where is chaplin and the foot elite?
Are the utrom slvs loyal to oroku SAKI?

Danetello
08-04-2015, 04:12 PM
I just watched this episode for the first time the other day, since I have been watching all the 2k3 for the first time on DVD.
While it is a very good episode, I wouldn't "obsess" over it like the OP says in the title. It definitely is very dark and edgy, which I like. I like that they weren't afraid to show the demise of some of the characters; adding the chilling reality of mortality to the series. Heroes can be heroes, but they are still mortal. I might be a bit biased towards it since it was a Donnie episode, too!

Eurydemus
08-04-2015, 04:25 PM
Shock value and the episode's overall tragic tone are my guesses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there had ever been a situation (until IDW TMNT 44) where a single turtle - let alone 3/4 of the team - was straight-up killed in action.

Ch'rell getting a drillbit to the head was pretty gruesome, too. However, Karai eating a rocket and the face she makes after declaring she's finished makes me laugh.

In any case, I don't quite obsess over it, but SAINW is definitely one of my 2K3 favourites.

Danetello
08-04-2015, 04:30 PM
Ch'rell getting a drillbit to the head was pretty gruesome, too.

:arrow::ksad:

That was pretty awesome!

:tlol:

Eurydemus
08-04-2015, 05:20 PM
:arrow::ksad:

That was pretty awesome!

:tlol:

Others have expressed the same sentiment countless times, but I still can't believe 2K3 got away with so many implied - and some very explicit - deaths and injuries.

jenna
08-05-2015, 11:54 AM
Because... Angst.

Because it played to a more mature audience, which let's face it, most of us are.

oceanfr
08-08-2015, 10:06 PM
Was good, but the turtle titans best.