PDA

View Full Version : Barron's TMNT: The Best TMNT Movie We Can Hope For?


Jester
01-30-2015, 08:07 PM
So....I was thinking. Opinions are massively mixed about the PD TMNT flick, but most will agree that Steve Barron's TMNT flick was a very good combination of Mirage and Fred Wolf elements. But sadly, is it the best we can expect?

Hear me out. Even with Peter Laird hard at the helm, the best we got was TMNT, which feels like a random sci-fi adventure flick with the Turtles along for the ride....and he's the co-creator. And let's not forget Eastman's own endorsement of the PD flick.

So if even the movies with an assumed "Seal of Approval" from the co-creators can be less than what fans were looking for, can we ever expect a TMNT movie to ever meet fans expectations?

shuriken
01-30-2015, 08:12 PM
^^No. Because Studios don't know what the hell that is and there isn't enough material to make it obvious. TMNT and DUNE-Turtles were both clusterf**ks in terms of what it wanted to be and focused too much on anyone other than the TMNT.
I think the 1990 film sadly is the best we'll get. Until we get a studio and director that cares more about the characters and the product, we will continue to get a mish mash of cinematic confusion and unneeded and rage inducing changes to the mythos.

Powder
01-30-2015, 08:15 PM
Barron had 2 excellent things at his disposal that no others did- A collection of Mirage's first ten or so issues, & Jim Henson.

So while we may one day get something similarly amazing, without taking inspiration from the source or having the worlds greatest team of creature creators, it will never top the original.

DarkFell
01-30-2015, 08:32 PM
Much can be learned from the original movie; there's no doubt about it. Most of the complaints that PDMT has gotten here is bad script writing, fugly Turtles, too much April, and a Megatron hybrid Shredder. Those same characters *and replacing Megatron hybrid Shredder with a normal looking Shredder* were designed, handled, and balanced the movie better in the original Barron film.

IndigoErth
01-30-2015, 08:44 PM
Unless they have people involved who really know their stuff and are allowed to work free from the control of others who don't know so much... until then, if ever, probably is. :ohwell:

The Boston Ninja Turtle
01-30-2015, 08:48 PM
honestly you dont even need somone who knows the source material in depth


now hear me out...i would take some one who respects the property and does the work to go back and learn and even ger a feel of the turtles based on their own research

rather than someone who slightly remembers it from an 80s induced sugar rush

Jester
01-30-2015, 08:52 PM
The one thing I'll applaud Barron for is using Mirage books as essentially storyboards. He didn't know the property backwards and forwards, but he saw that it had it's place in his movie.

Leo656
01-30-2015, 08:59 PM
The first was an indie flick. It's part of the corporate machine, now. It is physically impossible for a corporation worried entirely about selling action figures and winning over the Chinese audience, to produce a movie that worked on so many levels as the first film, especially in the more... subtle areas. Their focus is not on telling a story, it's about Creating Product. That's always a priority, but when it's the FIRST priority, the product suffers. It's very easy to see, in watching either film, where the focus in making it was. The first film created a world and these characters and made you believe in it. The new one is all, "Yeah, let's blow some sh*t up and sell some toys, nostalgia's hot right now."

The rules have completely changed. It's balls-out Bayhem, now, forever and ever. We've seen the best. Every movie ever yet to come will be bigger, for sure, but in no way better. Huge part of why I'm pretty distressed about the future of the franchise.

snake
01-30-2015, 09:11 PM
Probably. The first movie is so good that it's pretty stunning how well it turned out. I could watch it non stop, THAT'S how much effort and love was put into that movie.

B-Man
01-30-2015, 09:12 PM
It's hard to imagine a live-action Turtles film being made that's BETTER than the 1990 movie, and if it happens, it'll be when we're too old to really care. BUT I'm still holding out hope that one day we'll get a straight-to-bluray black & white CG animated movie based on the original comic. That could be the only new Turtles movie we'd need.

Jester
01-30-2015, 09:24 PM
Yeah, Leo you're probably right. Part of the heart of the 1st flick was that it was a very well made INDY flick. That independence meant it was meant to tell a story and not sell a toy. Heck, Playmates REFUSED to make TMNT 1 toys, because it was "too violent."

B-man, I'd love a animated Black, White, and Red (for bandannas and blood) TMNT #1 flick. It'd be epic.

Powder
01-30-2015, 09:27 PM
It's hard to imagine a live-action Turtles film being made that's BETTER than the 1990 movie, and if it happens, it'll be when we're too old to really care.

Assuming I make it to be a shriveled old raisin, even on my death-bed, something like that would provoke tears of joy, believe that. If I've been this hardcore of a fan or 20 years, ain't no stoppin' this train. The tattoo is with me forever, proving that.

snake
01-30-2015, 09:33 PM
Yeah, Leo you're probably right. Part of the heart of the 1st flick was that it was a very well made INDY flick. That independence meant it was meant to tell a story and not sell a toy. Heck, Playmates REFUSED to make TMNT 1 toys, because it was "too violent."


Really? Did the movie star figures come out after the movie or during it's release?

The Boston Ninja Turtle
01-30-2015, 09:34 PM
if memory serves me right the movie star turtles are actually secret of the ooze figures

snake
01-30-2015, 09:36 PM
if memory serves me right the movie star turtles are actually secret of the ooze figures

Prolly. I'll need to check the archive.

Jester
01-30-2015, 09:40 PM
Really? Did the movie star figures come out after the movie or during it's release?

if memory serves me right the movie star turtles are actually secret of the ooze figures
Yep, they were released for SotO, hence the "combat cold cuts", Nerf bat, and fire extinguisher packaged with Mikey, Leo and Donnie.

EDIT: Just noticed...I left out Raph's Yo-yo as that was Mikey's alt weapon in that scene too, BUT I forgot Leo didn't use the Nerf bat he came with...that was Donnie.

Bry
01-30-2015, 10:05 PM
Barron had 2 excellent things at his disposal that no others did- A collection of Mirage's first ten or so issues, & Jim Henson.

You nailed it here, and I'm gonna pointlessly elaborate on this for no real reason other than I want to. :lol:

Like you touched on, I think the movie benefited a lot by having a relatively "pure" amount of source material to work from. The cartoon was a growing phenomenon, but it was still pretty fresh, and the movie didn't have to deal with as many expectations to follow its lead at that very specific point in time. The comics and the cartoon were relatively new and the movie was helping build "Turtlemania" alongside them - and not trying to pander to a sense of hazy nostalgia like we're seeing lately.

It's totally possible to take on a whole bunch of different versions and combine them into something great (IDW's doing it right now), but it's more complicated the longer the property goes on - especially one like this that's had a lot of variance in tone. For this movie, having a really strong story in the Mirage comics and a few tweaks courtesy of the cartoon just worked in a way that's much harder to pull off now.

And yeah - I've said as much like a billion times by now, but practical effects are still the best call for a live-action TMNT movie. Believing they're real does so much of the work automatically, and nothing's beat the Henson suits yet.

CyberCubed
01-30-2015, 10:50 PM
I believe we'll never have a TMNT movie as good as the first one again.

Even after "Bay Turtles" ends, I'm not confident whatever movie reboot we get after would be any better.

pennydreadful
01-31-2015, 12:15 AM
I don't think we'll ever get a better live-action TMNT than the 1990 movie.

Leo got it in one - the fact that it was an indie film meant that Barron was free to do exactly what he wanted without studio interference. He wasn't hampered by execs saying "You have to include X because we have toys to sell" or "You have to cast _____ because it'll appeal to Target Market Segment A". This movie wasn't hamstrung by studios trying to market it to kids and teens and adults - it was just made as its own thing and found success with people of all age groups regardless. Yes, some edits had to be made to the final product when it came time to release (like Tatsu beating that foot clan soldier to death), but by and large, he was free to pursue his artistic vision from start to finish.

I doubt we'll ever see a live-action Turtles movie like it again because these days, the studio approach to everything is to make it a blockbuster - with huge effects, big stars, action scenes that they think will have everybody on the edge of their seats, explosions and cars flipping over etc etc.

neatoman
01-31-2015, 01:38 AM
Right now the 1990 movie might be the best to hope for. In the future however, yeah it's possible we could get a real masterpiece of a TMNT movie.

Candy Kappa
01-31-2015, 01:44 AM
I still have hope that when the PD era of sequels is over, we might get a movie that could turn into the best TMNT movie yet.

saul
01-31-2015, 02:29 AM
The only thing better than the 1990 movie would be if a special edition came out that fixed the lip syncing with CGI, and fixed the few goofs (human hand during skateboarding scene, faces inside mouths, rubber swords, etc)

DarkFell
01-31-2015, 02:37 AM
fixed the few goofs (human hand during skateboarding scene, faces inside mouths, rubber swords, etc)
You've got good eyes if you can see that stuff.

Leo656
01-31-2015, 07:25 AM
More like "once you notice 'em, you kind of always will". They don't kill the movie for me, though. They're not all up in your face but once your eye knows to look in a certain spot you have to fight NOT to notice 'em.

nylemon
01-31-2015, 07:30 AM
the point is u can't make big money depending on those hardcore fans,it's all about money.besides lots of people's tastes are getting lower,they like explosions,so called"blast Visual Effects",so called "high-tech" and other shallow things(i know it's little rude but somehow it's true),as long as u follow these rules even stupid movies can make great home box.

NYShell
02-12-2015, 09:24 PM
The first was an indie flick. It's part of the corporate machine, now. It is physically impossible for a corporation worried entirely about selling action figures and winning over the Chinese audience, to produce a movie that worked on so many levels as the first film, especially in the more... subtle areas. Their focus is not on telling a story, it's about Creating Product. That's always a priority, but when it's the FIRST priority, the product suffers. It's very easy to see, in watching either film, where the focus in making it was. The first film created a world and these characters and made you believe in it. The new one is all, "Yeah, let's blow some sh*t up and sell some toys, nostalgia's hot right now."

The rules have completely changed. It's balls-out Bayhem, now, forever and ever. We've seen the best. Every movie ever yet to come will be bigger, for sure, but in no way better. Huge part of why I'm pretty distressed about the future of the franchise.

Agreed completely. (Although I like the look of the PD Turtles; nothing more)

FoxBoxKid
02-13-2015, 07:38 PM
One problem is that TMNT fans just don't have enough sway. If we were a much bigger fandom, the studio might have to care about what we want. As it is now, TMNT fans have little effect on the outcome of a big-budget Hollywood movie.

mexichrist83
02-14-2015, 05:59 PM
I think that the 1990 film is the best TMNT movie we are ever going to get and I'm totally happy with that. I think the 1990 movie is another example of how TMNT can do so much with so little. The comic was the little comic that could. It was a self funded independent comic that became a big seller and we all know the rest. The movie was also the little movie that could. It was a low budget independent film that became a big hit making it one of the most successful independent films.

The fact that the movie was independent allowed us to have a darker and more violent movie that was not too much for the child fan base but just enough to be that much more exciting and allow us to feel the danger present. This also allowed us to have a TMNT movie that didn't need pander and to talk down to it's child fan-base and give us something we could appreciate as kids and adults (look at the big tonal difference between TMNT 1990 and "Secret of the Ooze"). The movie was also being made by people who wanted to tell a good story while also staying very true to the source material without major studio interference and the driving force of making the movie just to be a brand name product like most major studio movies these days. I think that's what makes the 1990 movie so special. We got really lucky with this movie.

Bitsy83
02-18-2015, 04:27 PM
One problem is that TMNT fans just don't have enough sway. If we were a much bigger fandom, the studio might have to care about what we want. As it is now, TMNT fans have little effect on the outcome of a big-budget Hollywood movie.

Never really thought about it, but i guess this fandom is pretty young and small compared to others that have been around since the 60s, like Star Trek and Batman. Those have had some pretty embarrassing film portrayals, too, but they managed to bounce back nicely. Filmmakers are still trying to reach that "Dark Night" level with superhero movies, thinking that dark, brooding protagonists are what people really want in their heroes.

Then again.....Guardians of the Galaxy certainly didn't need that formula too much and did pretty well.

Unfortunately, since the 80's cartoon is the most popular incarnation and thanks to the new Nick show, people will always affiliate TMNT with kids, therefore have lots of goofy humor and catch phrases. They'll either forget or be unaware of Mirage and even IDW that depicts the Turtles in much more adult and serious conditions. And if a movie WAS made with that, parents (and fans) would be so outraged that the Turtles were too dark and scared them. Yeah, Batman had some pretty kiddie stuff in the past, too, but even the 90s cartoon treated the audience like adults, even if it wasn't intended for adults. I watched that show a bunch and I turned out ok. But we're so overly sensitive now that we're afraid if a kid sees ONE drop of blood in a cartoon, it'll turn them into Michael Myers.

For me, that's why I forgave Bay Turtles...mostly. While I spent most of my time cringing at the plot and bad jokes, I did like how the personalties of the Turtles were mainly accurate and I eventually got over the over-the-top details. I just wish we focused more on them. But, no, April's screeching and panting were WAY more important! :trolleye: Despite that, it was a fun guilty pleasure and harmless enough. As awesome as Dark Knight was, I couldn't sit through that movie more than once, maybe twice.

So, maybe we will get a better movie in the future. Or maybe the sequel might be better now that they got over that stupid leaked script BS. I hate that Bay's still attached, but I am curious as to what the new director's gonna do. If we could bring a bit more heart and less BOOM BOOM POW POW FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT, then the film might surpass the first one. Whenever I see a movie that I find subpar, I find the sequel to be 10 times better. For example, Shrek 2, X-men 2, Kung Fu Panda 2, and Madagascar 2 I felt were all way better than the first movie.

BTW, what does PD stand for?

LeotheLateBloomer
02-22-2015, 06:12 AM
One problem is that TMNT fans just don't have enough sway. If we were a much bigger fandom, the studio might have to care about what we want. As it is now, TMNT fans have little effect on the outcome of a big-budget Hollywood movie.

Well then again, didn't they change Eric Sachs from being the Shredder to an average business man because of the fan out cry?

Mew
02-22-2015, 06:22 AM
Well then again, didn't they change Eric Sachs from being the Shredder to an average business man because of the fan out cry?
I think so.
Eric BallSachs should of been a Japanese collector interested in collecting the Shredder armor, or something like that, in the original script.

Anyway, a mix of TMNT 1990 and TMNT 2k7 would be mine. I love the 2k7 CGI, but it needed Shredder.

Refractive Reflections
02-23-2015, 04:47 AM
After the PD movies, I think there could be a possibility of having a TMNT movie around the quality of Barron's TMNT, but we'd probably have to wait for another generation to pass by, and your son Jester, would probably be a pre-teen or teenager by then. :lol: ...though I highly doubt a future TMNT movie will reach critical acclaim close to any type of Oscar-nominated territory unless there's a directing team or fan movement whose passion for such a quality movie is just that strong, and Nickelodeon (or whoever owns TMNT at that time) is willing to take such a creative risk.

To add with the comments of pennydreadful and Leo656, most studio companies see comic book hero franchises appealing primarily to kids and the young male demographic; therefore the storywriting and scripts will be fairly superficial, have immature jokes, eye candy of females (whose figures supersede their acting skills significantly) to make teen boys salivate over, excessive "badass" anti-hero imagery to make these same teen boys want to emulate/imitate, and over-the-top visual "loudness" with explosions and fights that obscure the characters and storywriting itself. You have to ask yourself: Do most people who come in to see an action movie, if they could only choose one option, actually want to see deep character growth or primarily see explosions and fighting?

The studio executives reason that the audience doesn't want profound and poignant drama writing considering the age demographic, and in addition, why would they consider it (or bother to change the Bay style of making movies) when the public mass consumes this form of entertainment anyways? If someone abhors that type of quality from movies that much, then stop purchasing tickets and renting/buying it, because as much as one might complain about how horrible it is, the companies only care about the bottom financial line, which frequently viewing, complaining fans inadvertently support.

leogan
02-23-2015, 04:13 PM
you all have it right about what movie studio ppl think of the ppl who really make them money. and i still don't understand why they think this. when you look at shows and movies meant for "kids" that take a serious approach when telling a story they do great. avatar the last air bender is one example(show, not film)
i think the first film was the best, but the new one had potential , mainly because it took itself as a serous movie (mostly). hoping the second can get things a bit more right.

Xav
02-23-2015, 08:34 PM
BTW, what does PD stand for?Platinum Dunes

turtlefanforever
02-23-2015, 10:05 PM
Most likely. Clearly as of right now they are just churning out crap. And by the time it comes for a reboot, the people that really care and grew up with the good stuff will be gone, or at least not directing it. It'll be the people who grew up on this new generation of turtles. The OG turtle fans have seen the best days already. Won't get any better for us. We're a dying breed as much as I hate to say it.