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View Full Version : Why hasn't the earth been conquered by Shredder hundreds of years ago?


TurtleFan2012
03-05-2015, 03:33 AM
The problem with immortal villains (or baddies with long life span) is that they could have destroyed, or conquered, the earth loooong before the protagonists were born.

There were no teenage turtles and rat interfering with his schemes. They were not born yet. Why did Utrom Shredder waited until 2003 to try to conquer the city/planet/universe?

The only explanation I can think of is that Mortu got in his way, but Mortu and the guardians can't be THAT powerful.

neatoman
03-05-2015, 04:21 AM
An army of ninjas in the pre-industrial age ain't gonna take over the world, the same reason why the other Utroms couldn't build the transmat for hundreds of years either. It took hundreds of years to get the right resources.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-05-2015, 08:53 AM
Ch'rell wasn't interested in conquering the world. He was interested in returning to space to destroy the Utroms. For that, he has to wait for technological advancement to catch up to a point where he can develop space travel and weaponry.

Candy Kappa
03-05-2015, 09:25 AM
yeah, Ch'rell gave two ***** about Earth. He wanted off this rock and go home and do some real damage there.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-05-2015, 09:55 AM
yeah, Ch'rell gave two ***** about Earth. He wanted off this rock and go home and do some real damage there.

Because Ch'rell was a badass. The End. :tlol:

ABrown
03-05-2015, 11:34 AM
This is a big reason that I had a hard time buying that Oroku Saki was actually Ch'rell. If Ch'rell ambitions were more than to simply be a crime lord, why wouldn't he have attempted such? I could've seen Ch'rell having been, say, Hitler. But Ch'rell didn't seem like he'd be the type to pose as a legitimate businessman. The Oroku Saki persona just didn't seem like a match for Ch'rell.

Candy Kappa
03-05-2015, 11:39 AM
It's a bit jarring for sure. But, I think Ch'rell wanted to lay low, being a wanted war criminal with mass genocide on his record. Hence why Ch'rell's alter ego had an alter ego as well. :lol:

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-05-2015, 11:47 AM
It's a bit jarring for sure. But, I think Ch'rell wanted to lay low, being a wanted war criminal with mass genocide on his record. Hence why Ch'rell's alter ego had an alter ego as well. :lol:

The little Ootie had focus. He was willing to work with the Turtles or anyone else to reach his endgame, until the TMNT became his enemies. And we also know he was determined to find and exterminate the other surviving Utroms... he was only one Utrom, so he had to lay low lest his enemies take the fight to him.

mrminister4446
03-05-2015, 12:27 PM
He got the Tokugawa clan into power in Japan, which ruled Japan until the 1800's. So he could have potentially become emperor of Japan instead of putting them into power. From that point, he'd be able to make an empire by ruling Japan.

If he did that he could have taken big parts of Asia if he is a good strategist, and considering he lives so long, I am sure he'd manage to conquer Asia using Japan, after a bunch of centuries. It would be hard for the turtles to stop him, and he'd have unlimited funds to make rockets when the technology becomes advanced enough. The only question is: Would the utroms be able to know about this? How could they know that Shredder has created an empire on earth?

If the irl japanese empire was so dangerous, imagine if it was ruled by him.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
03-20-2015, 09:41 AM
He could have developed the technology on Earth, but would probably been considered a demon in Ancient Japan until the mid-19th century.

mrminister4446
03-20-2015, 04:11 PM
He could have developed the technology on Earth, but would probably been considered a demon in Ancient Japan until the mid-19th century.

Let's say he takes Japan, and the people see him as some sort of god, since he is so tough and immortal, which is likely considering people believed in that stuff before, and some probably would today if they saw someone like him, how do you think the rest of the world would have reacted. He'd have to expand quickly enough to make Japan strong enough to stop the europeans, since they would see him as a threat and probably call him satan or something.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
03-20-2015, 04:40 PM
Let's say he takes Japan, and the people see him as some sort of god, since he is so tough and immortal, which is likely considering people believed in that stuff before, and some probably would today if they saw someone like him, how do you think the rest of the world would have reacted. He'd have to expand quickly enough to make Japan strong enough to stop the europeans, since they would see him as a threat and probably call him satan or something.

In the Middle Ages, the Europeans would probably view him as the Christian devil and try to burn him at the stake. Or maybe a male corresponding to a witch.

Indigenous peoples would probably see him as some kind of spirit.

Finally in the 19th century he would be seen as the extraterrestrial he is (but probably been mistaken to be from Mars).

Powder
03-20-2015, 09:14 PM
He wanted to perfect his sewing technique first, so that he could adorn his throne with a lovely blanket featuring a pattern of his face stitched into it.

mrminister4446
03-21-2015, 01:41 AM
In the Middle Ages, the Europeans would probably view him as the Christian devil and try to burn him at the stake. Or maybe a male corresponding to a witch.

Indigenous peoples would probably see him as some kind of spirit.

Finally in the 19th century he would be seen as the extraterrestrial he is (but probably been mistaken to be from Mars).

If the europeans and later the americans had knowledge of him from before, it would be an established fact that he would either be the devil or a super human, I don't think it would cross their minds that he's an alien.

Prowler
08-25-2015, 09:42 PM
This is a big reason that I had a hard time buying that Oroku Saki was actually Ch'rell. If Ch'rell ambitions were more than to simply be a crime lord, why wouldn't he have attempted such? I could've seen Ch'rell having been, say, Hitler. But Ch'rell didn't seem like he'd be the type to pose as a legitimate businessman. The Oroku Saki persona just didn't seem like a match for Ch'rell.
Yea it's kinda funny, really. Oroku Saki is seem as a cunning and yet patient and seemingly rational man. Like some sort of mafia boss. But Chrell himself seems like such a hateful and aggressive creature. Hard to believe he had so much patience to pose as an alter ego.

MsMarvelDuckie
08-26-2015, 01:05 PM
Isn't it obvious? Ch'rell had a split personality. Cold and rational on one side, and bat-sh*t crazy and genocidal on the other. Hannibal Lector and Hitler in one body.

ABrown
08-26-2015, 01:36 PM
Looking back, I think I would've preferred that Ch'rell and Oroku Saki been two separate characters. Ch'rell would've basically taken the role that Krang had in the original cartoon. And then Saki could've had a story similar to the role that Yukio Mashimi had.

Candy Kappa
08-26-2015, 01:43 PM
Yea it's kinda funny, really. Oroku Saki is seem as a cunning and yet patient and seemingly rational man. Like some sort of mafia boss. But Chrell himself seems like such a hateful and aggressive creature. Hard to believe he had so much patience to pose as an alter ego.

It would have been funny if the moments Saki looks calm, quiet and cunning. Ch'rell was actually spending a lot of time thinking on things to say, or just fumbling with the controls.

Xav
08-26-2015, 01:45 PM
Looking back, I think I would've preferred that Ch'rell and Oroku Saki been two separate characters.But they were separate characters. The real Oroku Saki was a warlord from ancient Japan. Ch'rell was just using his identity.

Prowler
08-26-2015, 01:47 PM
It would have been funny if the moments Saki looks calm, quiet and cunning. Ch'rell was actually spending a lot of time thinking on things to say, or just fumbling with the controls.
Lol ye. Those utrom exosuits sure copied human movements perfectly, didn't they? I bet the utroms would also be great gamers if they ever tried playing video games.

ABrown
08-26-2015, 01:49 PM
But they were separate characters. The real Oroku Saki was a warlord from ancient Japan. Ch'rell was just using his identity.

Thank you Catherine Obvious. But I mean the Oroku Saki who lead the Foot against the turtles. I honestly believe that the only reason that the demon Shredder Oroku Saki was created, was because of the outcry of fans after finding out that Oroku Saki was an utrom.

Actually that brings up a second problem with Oroku Saki. How did people not realize that Oroku Saki was hundreds of years old and never aged?

mrminister4446
09-20-2015, 05:05 AM
Thank you Catherine Obvious. But I mean the Oroku Saki who lead the Foot against the turtles. I honestly believe that the only reason that the demon Shredder Oroku Saki was created, was because of the outcry of fans after finding out that Oroku Saki was an utrom.

Actually that brings up a second problem with Oroku Saki. How did people not realize that Oroku Saki was hundreds of years old and never aged?

That might be explained in two ways:

1. He didn't need to be oroku saki in ye olden days, so he was just the shredder, humans working with him, never seeing his face might be changed out often, so people will think that its a different shredder as the years passes or something. So he might not have had the oroku saki persona until it was needed, much later.

2. I forgot what I was going to say here lol

ffxplayer
10-16-2015, 08:11 PM
I think he preferred to keep a low profile to avoid getting wiped out by the other Utrom or getting too many people pissed at him at once. He was a clever little creep, so he worked slowly but successfully to conquer earth.

shuriken
11-17-2015, 10:36 PM
Cuz Ch'rell didn't care about Earth and just wanted to lay low until he could go back to the Utrom homeworld once technology caught up. In the meantime he built a criminal empire while fighting off the Gaurdians.

Chopperface
11-30-2015, 03:09 PM
Ch'Rell did have quasi-immortality (or at least couldn't be killed like a normal human in his exo-suit, so he could build up this legend about himself being an immortal warlord, or a cult of personality. Plenty of mercenaries I'm sure would love to join up with a supposedly immortal warlord, and he definitely could've taken over the world during the era of Feudal Japan, methinks, or at least pose a serious threat to the world if nothing else.

But Ch'Rell wasn't really interested in conquering Earth. Or at least, it wasn't his top priority. He strongly implied he'd be back to conquer Earth during his farewell address at his party, but I'm sure his top priority when he came back was to strip Earth of resources. His top priority was conquering the Utrom homeworld, then the rest of the galaxy.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
12-05-2015, 04:21 PM
If the europeans and later the americans had knowledge of him from before, it would be an established fact that he would either be the devil or a super human, I don't think it would cross their minds that he's an alien.

Not until somewhere between 1750-1850 or something. There's much that has been explained with supernatural or faith, which is today explained with scienc.

mrminister4446
12-07-2015, 06:14 AM
Not until somewhere between 1750-1850 or something. There's much that has been explained with supernatural or faith, which is today explained with scienc.

Would you as the Prime minister of Great Britain, or the Tsar of Russia manage to guess that he is from outer space? I think they would just have solidified their own government, by uniting religious people against this immortal devil who wants to conquer earth.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
12-07-2015, 07:00 AM
Would you as the Prime minister of Great Britain, or the Tsar of Russia manage to guess that he is from outer space? I think they would just have solidified their own government, by uniting religious people against this immortal devil who wants to conquer earth.

Not as a head of state or government, but maybe as a scientist-astronomer like William Herschel or Caroline Herschel.

mrminister4446
12-07-2015, 10:41 AM
Not as a head of state or government, but maybe as a scientist-astronomer like William Herschel or Caroline Herschel.

I think it would just be an assumed fact that he would be some sort of demon, so nobody would question it and those who would, would just be ridiculed.

Since there would be "proof" right in front of everyones eyes that demons and magic exists, there would be alot less atheists.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
12-08-2015, 05:46 AM
I think it would just be an assumed fact that he would be some sort of demon, so nobody would question it and those who would, would just be ridiculed.

Since there would be "proof" right in front of everyones eyes that demons and magic exists, there would be alot less atheists.

Where believers see a demon or spirit, scientists see a physical explanation.