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View Full Version : 5 years after Viacom buys the turtles, thoughts?


sdp
03-08-2015, 07:11 PM
It feels just recent that Viacom bought the turtles but I just realized it's been more than 5 years already, time sure flies. It feels like just yesterday when I read the announcement or when we first saw the concept art for the show and all the trouble with the live action movie also feels recent. But now that we've been under the viacom umbrella, we've had three seasons of the CG show, we've gotten plenty of merchandise and a movie. When Viacom first bought the turtles most people at the drome were fairly negative, I think Cybercubed nearly committed suicide and at least 200 of his post count is how Viacom would turn the turtles into sponge bob. There were definitely a few who were positive about it, I was one of those few and I remember Roseangelo as well being happy Laird would have nothing to do with the turtles anymore. Even at the time I would've preferred for Mirage to keep the turtles but I thought at least with Viacom it meant movies and shows and whatnot which Mirage didn't seem to be able to do by itself since they didn't have the money so i was fine with the purchase.


But after a few years, I think that it's been a huge disappointment. I was one of the few hyped for the new show but I had a lot faith that they wouldn't do a crappy show based on how much they spent for it and that they needed an action show in their line-up, I loved all the concept art as well and while I didn't love the final designs I was more than fine with them with the exception of Splinter and Shredder (he looked too over the top and 90s). But while I never felt the show was bad I also never got all the praise that it had, to me the show is very safe and for that reason it's boring to me even if I have enjoyed episodes. I recently decided I wasn't going to be watching the show anymore, it just doesn't hold my attention to be waiting for new episodes and whatnot. I'll definitely watch the whole show once it has finished its run though, since I did enjoy it I just can't be bothered to be watching it as it airs since it's not as interesting as say 2k3. I can't talk about the IDW comic since I don't read it but I can say I don't like the art and the blending of OT nostalgia pandering and "mature" seems like its not something I'd like but who knows.

The new movie I actually liked, I know it gets a bad rap here but while it definitely has plenty of flaws like the turtle designs and some decisions in the plot/shredder it felt like a turtles movie and I'll be watching the sequel. But I still can't not feel disappointed after the awesome confirmed live action movie Mirage had been planning before the buyout, everything they mentioned was the turtles movie we all wanted and we may never get anything like that ever again. But how about Merchandise? Maybe Viacom is not to blame too much but Playmates has shat on another turtles toyline, it started with promise only for that to be all they were going to do. Besides that I do have to give credit that Viacom has given the license to many other companies, we've gotten Lego, Minimates, those blind bag figures/bobble heads etc. Sadly those don't appeal to me so they didn't do much. Having revoltech Turtles was indeed awesome. So I guess Viacom has done a good job there. Now let's get to the videogames which have always been an important part of TMNT media. We all know Konami did a mediocre job with the 2k3 show games but they weren't terrible and Ubisoft faired similarly when they got the license but what about Activision? They made that terrible "gritty" live arcade game and I just found out they've released 3 3DS games, they're so incredibly mediocre that they didn't even register on anyones radar, at least the other companies got press about their games. Who knows for how long Activision has the license but I'd love to see another publisher take a stab at it.

So yeah overall Viacom owning the turtles hasn't been great for me, I would've preferred Mirage keeping the turtles even if it meant no turtles media for the foreseeable future, maybe we'd only be getting rumors about a new show right now but also we might've gotten a much better movie. The future of the turtles with Viacom is also uncertain, they don't shy away from getting rid of stuff that was once popular and making money for them so if they ever get tired of the turtles we may never see them again but they do have the money and at least they wouldn't shy away from an 'adult' oriented TMNT show/movie if there was ever demand for it. Let's just hope that after the current movie series and cartoon end it isn't too long before Viacom makes another one because I'd love to see what they do I could see Viacom not making a new show for more than ten years after the current one ends.

Please don't make your post into a rant of "NICK SHOW/Bay's Movie SUCKS, **** Viacom" if you don't like it be constructive like I was and if you've liked it well tell us why.

CyberCubed
03-08-2015, 07:14 PM
2 out of 3 of the new incarnations since Viacom bought the license are great, so I'm content.

The Nick cartoon is good, the IDW series is good. The Michael Bay 2014 movie (and likely its sequels) are terrible. So we got 2 out of 3, I'm content.

Netkeeper
03-08-2015, 07:20 PM
The only incarnation since the purchase I've liked is IDW. I don't like how the 2k3 series has been treated since the purchase. I'm glad the old show and comics have gotten attention, but they act like 2k3 never happened at all. I don't care about the video games either way. I am however happy about merchandise turnout.

I'll reconsider my stance when 2k3 gets a full DVD release but for now I'm wishing the purchase hadn't happened.

CyberCubed
03-08-2015, 07:26 PM
I'll reconsider my stance when 2k3 gets a full DVD release but for now I'm wishing the purchase hadn't happened.

The 2k3 series will likely be released on DVD eventually. They already tested the waters last year by airing the first two seasons on Nicktoons and on their site for a bit to expose new kids to them.

Jephael
03-08-2015, 07:35 PM
My friend and I actually liked the Michael Bay film. We watched it together the other day while I was in town for a visit (the first time he saw it) and we had a good time viewing it. He actually got startled when April was caught in the subway scene, which cracked me up.

turtlefanforever
03-08-2015, 08:16 PM
lots of merch is great, the all the rest is ****

Mormegil
03-08-2015, 08:50 PM
As long as they leave the IDW series alone, I'm happy. Even then I wish they would allow the series to be a bit darker.

There s nothing wrong with the fred wolf or nickolodeon cartoons, I just prefer the series to take itself more serious with the comedy bits well placed but not too often.

Autbot_Benz
03-08-2015, 09:06 PM
Stop trolling turtlefanforever. First warning.

-DarthRaphael

Dirty Blond
03-08-2015, 09:19 PM
I like the Nick show.

I have not seen the movie, so I can't comment (although avoiding the movie may be a comment in itself).

But best of all is how IDW is giving us a very nice ongoing comic as well as reintroducing the Mirage material, most of which I missed the first go-round. The 30th anniversary issue was stellar.

The toys are cool too, even though I don't collect them.

Powder
03-08-2015, 09:54 PM
2 out of 3 of the new incarnations since Viacom bought the license are great, so I'm content.

The Nick cartoon is good, the IDW series is good. The Michael Bay 2014 movie (and likely its sequels) are terrible. So we got 2 out of 3, I'm content.

To be brief, this sums up my feelings, too. But I'd say it's 2/4, as the toys are a pretty major part of the franchise, too. So I am pleased with the comics & cartoon, but not the toys or film(s).

IDW's original comics are very creative. They're very much in the vein of past material, across different eras. You can tell there is influence being taken from, & homage being paid to, the Archie & Mirage comics, & all 3 TMNT cartoon series, with there being drips & drops of other familiar flavors throughout. I feel that it at times pulls too much from the Fred Wolf/Playmates aesthetic & cast too much, but for the most part, I am less tolerating that & more so growing fond of old things in a new light. In other words, while I may not want X or Y to be a part of the book, they find a way to make me like it. So I'm more forgiving of it now. If nothing else, it can't be argued that IDW puts out a lot of high quality content, consistently. 3 TMNT books a month, if not more, when you count reprints & their many variations. Their host of artists is both broad in size & variation, giving opportunities to artists with very unique styles who may not otherwise have a spotlight position at one of The Big 2. This sort of indie operation is not unlike Mirage, who gave many of today's prominent artists their jump-start in both Mirage's guest era of the late 80's & their Tales Of TMNT Vol. 2 of the 2000's. So while they may be under the reigns of Viacom, it still has some working man's charm to it. Oh, & the crossovers! Whoo! X-files, Cthulu, Ghostbusters, it's all rad & feels right at home. While I'm not completely happy with IDW's treatment of Mirage works (the colored reprints have some pretty grievous errors), I am greatly appreciative of how they push/respect the original comics, there seems to be an effort there to raise awareness of the turtles' roots. Plus there's the fact they employ people like Dooney & Lawson to create new covers for these volumes, helping us to have a steady flow of new art from the awesome gang at Mirage. Not to mention doing the 30th anniversary book featuring new stories in each of the old school comic continuities. So us comic fans have it pretty damn good right now.

Nick's series is an amazingly strong program, I think. Much like IDW, they'll include something I'm unsure of, or against, & revitalize it in just such a way that it clicks perfectly, & makes you wonder how it hadn't been done before. The character designs, are in my opinion, the penultimate. The definitive look of a teenage mutant ninja turtle. They've got a uniform appearance while being different from one another in perfectly subtle ways, with their varying heights, head shapes, & facial features. The build of their limbs is taken from the very first drawing of the TMNT, so the Mirage turtles are immediately called to mind from their general appearance, which is heightened by the brown pads & grimy wraps. Just the same, they have a childlike charm that makes them endearing from the get-go, intertwined with anime & Japanese monster aesthetics, that tickle my geeky sensibilities in every way imaginable. & that goes for all characters on the show, really. April was always incredibly boring to me, aside from being the turtles' link to the human world, she's never offered much personality. But here, she's young, smart, sassy, & very funny. Maybe I'm biased for loving her new look & voice actor, but I think she's the best April to date (though I am not a fan of her psychic abilities). Shredder & Splinter are so perfectly badass & stoic, they've got such presence. I'm into ALL of the characterization, new designs, etc. All of that is infinitely appealing to me. On an art/visual level, the show is bonkers. It's really cinematic with it's laugh out loud humor, high octane martial arts, sci-fi & slasher tributes, & killer soundtrack. It's a giant love letter to pulp/cult media, which is what the TMNT were originally built on. Comics, cartoons, kung-fu movies, heavy metal, etc. It knows where it came from & wears the badge proudly. It's able to be dark & violent without offending censors or coming off as melodramatic, by utilizing psychedelic visuals, non-human cannon fodder, & using surrealistic body horror. It's clever in more ways than one. Unfortunately, there are times where it (by force, I think) relies too heavily on the say-so of Playmates toys, and/or whomever is pushing the Fred Wolf elements. The series had a brand new, fresh, yet very general, 4kids/Mirage/Archie kind of vibe for season 1 & portions of two, but then in season 2 it went into a somewhat formulaic pattern dubbed "Mutant Of The Week" by fans, during which plot would take a backseat to random humor & introducing one-off characters to promote the toyline, not unlike the original cartoon (which was awesomely crossed over into this one & will be again, so I hear). So while the story is wonderful, we don't always get as much of it as we'd like. But we don't know who is ultimately responsible for that. The breaks don't help, either. It seems now, halfway into season 3, that the tone is changing yet again, perhaps returning to a style more similar to that of season 1. Overall, the series focuses a lot on the actual ninja element of the property, which I feel is very important & often not given the attention it deserves. Similarly, they care very much for the heart & family dynamic, which includes celebrating your weirdness, individuality, & knowing that it's not always about blood but who has your back. Good themes to give kids, & important stuff to remind us adults. It's also very weird, the good kind of weird. Never weird for weirdness' sake, rather, it just plain feels right.

The other two aspects of the modern era TMNT, the toyline & new live action film, I cannot speak highly of. I tried to be brief, but I goofed up.

Playmates started off strong with wave 1. Detailed sculpts, plenty of cartoon accuracy, a large assortment of weapons (albeit unpainted), & the scale was decent, relatively. Over time, figures saw less & less paint, less articulation, worse scale, quality control issues, re-used parts, very basic sculpts that at times don't even match up with past figures or plain look cheap, etc. It just all went downhill. They still sometimes make nice sculpts in the basic line, though they're consistently hindered by ill-conceived, cost effective, setbacks. They're even harder to appreciate in-store, because when the toys are revealed to the public, they are fully painted. Production models do not reflect the same level of quality, despite being falsely marketed as such. The adult "collectors" lines were well intended but very poorly executed. They made a lot of promises they did not or could not keep, their promo was at times poorly worded, misrepresenting the products, quality control was at a low (Cross-eyed turtles, Rocksteady's neck unpainted, legs on backwards, etc), directionless articulation made it difficult for figures to hold their weapons, the "Henson" turtles looked nothing like the source material, fans were both ignored & teased, it goes on & on. & those Mirage turtles? Gross. I'd say they look like NECA bootlegs but that'd be a grand insult to NECA bootlegs, because, wow, somehow those are better than factory made collector pieces from a major corporation. In addition to that, Playmates' PR is virtually non-existent, they keep re-hashing concepts that haven't done well in the past, there are tons of variants/role-playing kits shelf-warming, I could go on forever. The struggle is real. On the bright side, Viacom seems to be hip to us now, & has been lending out the license to other toy creators, like Revoltech, so that we can get better pieces for our collections. A big upside.

What did I like about the new film? Well, it had very nice CGI (for the most part), showed the turtles as kids, which was cool, the turtles' voice actors were decent, aaaaaand that's it, I guess. I hate pretty much every single thing about it. Bad writing, bad editing, bad color palettes, bad script, bad plot, gaping plotholes, bad acting, bad cast, bad designs, iffy characterization, bad leaked stuff/re-shoots, unnecessary/terrible changes to lore, a staff who knows little to nothing about the TMNT, obvious product placement, generic score, crummy theme song, it's just all around terrible. No bueno. IDW & Nick's creative teams consist of fans & past turtle veterans, so they're good. The films creative team consists of a bunch of guys who make things go boom for bags of money, so it's bad.

My opinion is my opinion, not here for an argument.

All in all, I think the good outweighs the bad, but the bad is baaaaaaad.

Sabacooza
03-08-2015, 09:59 PM
Viacom owning the property is a double edged sword I suppose. I love that we have lots of merchandise and I love the current show and comics but at the end of the day Viacom is an entity with no heart and the moment the property becomes nonprofitable, it's dead, maybe to be shelved permanently. I just hope they're kind enough to sell it off to someone else if they come to a point where they have no intentions of doing anything with it anymore.

Having Laird own it on the other hand was a bit better in a sense because the property was safe. True, Laird could've shelved it permanently as well but being the co-creator he had a certain love for it that Viacom will never have. We might not have had as much material with Laird but again, I felt that as long as he owned it there was no danger of it vanishing forever. He continued to produce the comics even when sales weren't great. Also, under him, we very well could've gotten a really good new live action movie that stuck to the source material.

What will keep TMNT afloat should Viacom choose to not make TV shows and movies in house are the licensees much like when Laird owned it. I just don't know if I could stand not having any movies or a TV show once Viacom feels it's not profitable to do so.

CyberCubed
03-08-2015, 10:15 PM
Having Laird own it on the other hand was a bit better in a sense because the property was safe. True, Laird could've shelved it permanently as well but being the co-creator he had a certain love for it that Viacom will never have. We might not have had as much material with Laird but again, I felt that as long as he owned it there was no danger of it vanishing forever. He continued to produce the comics even when sales weren't great. Also, under him, we very well could've gotten a really good new live action movie that stuck to the source material.so.

If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.

Jester
03-08-2015, 10:15 PM
Enjoying what I like, not really caring for what I don't. Same as it was under Pete. :P

Sabacooza
03-08-2015, 10:20 PM
If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be. You have a point but the same thing will happen with Viacom. They'll get tired of it and not want to do anything with it. It's a cycle. The question is will they then sell it off or just sit on it?

CyberCubed
03-08-2015, 10:22 PM
Yeah, and the same thing can eventually happen again under Viacom so what's your point?

Because we're getting new stuff now. If PL didn't do anything with TMNT within the last 5 years, he likely wouldn't do anything with it for the next 5 either. PL viewed the 4kids cartoon as the TMNT cartoon he always wanted the first time around, so he likely never had any desire to partner with any other company to make another. And as seen by Mirage's comic output since the sale...which is basically nothing.

You're right in that Viacom might shelve the franchise for some time after the Nick/IDW series end. But even then its probably for the best to avoid franchise burnout. I'd rather the series take a 5-10 year break rather than getting a 4th cartoon and another comic reboot so soon thereafter.

Sabacooza
03-08-2015, 10:33 PM
You're right in that Viacom might shelve the franchise for some time after the Nick/IDW series end. But even then its probably for the best to avoid franchise burnout. I'd rather the series take a 5-10 year break rather than getting a 4th cartoon and another comic reboot so soon thereafter.Okay, then you'd pretty much be in the same situation TMNT was in under Laird. There would be no desire to do anything with it. We'd have how many years of nothing. I feel in order for the property to stay alive it needs to eventually be sold off to someone excited enough to do something with it.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-08-2015, 10:33 PM
If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.

I agree with everything you said, CC.

I think that when the time comes, Viacom will sell the rights. They're in the business to make money, so after they wring all the cash out of it, it makes good business sense to pass it along and make even more money with a last sale. (Hopefully... they could also just squat on the rights and hog them, because selfishness.)

TMNTChris1980
03-08-2015, 10:38 PM
I'll give what I like, and add a criticism, so people don't think I'm a complete maniac.

Really dig the show, they do so many nods to Mirage, it makes me happy knowing that kids will one day read the original comics, and realize where it all started. Down side of it, I wish Shredder was smaller (yeah, I got nothing)

The IDW comics are really good. Lots of great artists, and writing keep me coming back. Downside of the IDW series, WAY too many micro series, spinoffs, and variant covers. I also am not a huge fan of a million mutants. Where the series started was very low key and paced well, now it seems like a million mutants. Too many nods to the toyline than the mirage comic.

The new movie, not going to start a battle here. I did not like the new movie at all. I honestly can't think of a single thing I liked about it. Oh wait the one scene where Shredder (?) was tied up on the ground, and did some bad ass karate moves on Karai's foot soldiers. Oh and the first time they showed Splinter the little girl in front of me saying "ewwww, he's gross". Nailed it.

Sabacooza
03-08-2015, 10:38 PM
(Hopefully... they could also just squat on the rights and hog them, because selfishness.)Hopefully? why would one hope for that? That would be terrible.

sdp
03-08-2015, 10:58 PM
You guys are fools if you think Viacom is going to sell the turtles, any major company would rather sit on an IP and do nothing with it than let others use it. The only reason Saban was able to buy Power Rangers from Disney is that it was co-owned by Toei if not Power Rangers would be a dead franchise right now, if you can think of another example go ahead.. Look at how many iconic IPs Viacom owns and they do absolutely nothing with them. A smaller company like Mirage was bound to use their only popular IP again and Laird is an old man so the turtles would've outlived him even if he didn't want to do anything more and had plenty of opportunities. Viacom shelving the franchise to rot is a genuine concern.

I hope it doesn't happen, I mean I think it's likely a new movie reboot would go "back to its roots" after the current take stops after the third or however many it makes. And I think a new show would either take a more comedic route or just try something totally new to separate itself from the 2k3 and Nick shows. Similar to how Batman cartoons had trouble after BTAS, I consider the nick show to be like The Batman which wasn't bad but it was just hard to follow BTAS.

I'm intrigued about the IDW comic now after reading Powder's description, a blend of all universes is something I wanted to see. The art always put me off though and seeing "mature" versions of so many OT things kind of rubbed me the wrong way thinking they were just pandering to adults who grew up with the OT. I guess I'll check it out in a few years when there's more storylines finished up or the series is over.

CyberCubed
03-08-2015, 10:58 PM
Hopefully? why would one hope for that? That would be terrible.

Who would you want to buy the rights to TMNT though? Nick wouldn't let the TMNT franchise go cheap. They paid $60 million for it back in 2009 and that was when it was a fading property again, after the success of their cartoon and IDW comic they'll probably ask for $100 million or more if they want to sell it off.

Other than Disney I can't see anyone else spending that much for TMNT.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-08-2015, 11:00 PM
Hopefully? why would one hope for that? That would be terrible.

I was saying my previous statement was hopeful, and then listing a bleaker, hopefully-not-going-to-happen potential scenario. You misunderstood me. Sorry 'bout the misphrasing.

Powder
03-08-2015, 11:26 PM
and seeing "mature" versions of so many OT things kind of rubbed me the wrong way thinking they were just pandering to adults who grew up with the OT.

Oh they definitely did do that. But we've moved past it. For now.

CyberCubed
03-09-2015, 12:03 AM
I'm intrigued about the IDW comic now after reading Powder's description, a blend of all universes is something I wanted to see. The art always put me off though and seeing "mature" versions of so many OT things kind of rubbed me the wrong way thinking they were just pandering to adults who grew up with the OT. I guess I'll check it out in a few years when there's more storylines finished up or the series is over.

The IDW comic has many different art styles and the Turtles look drastically different between who is drawing it. I think you're refering to Dan Duncan's look who did the first 12 issues, he's not around anymore.

The IDW comic is really coming into its own now. It started off feeling like, "The original toon for grown-ups" but the mythos has been building very well and they're mixing Mirage/Archie/Fred Wolf/4kids and even Nick elements all into one.

Honestly by the time the IDW comic ends and we can read the run from start to finish it'll probably be viewed as the definitive TMNT universe outside of Mirage.

Candy Kappa
03-09-2015, 02:13 AM
It certainly could have been better, we could have had a movie that isn't tertible and a toyline that hasn't declined in quality. And the video games have not been very impressive.

But overall things have been relatively good. The IDW is going strong, the Nick cartoon is very good.

Xav
03-09-2015, 03:12 AM
If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.Well we would have gotten a new movie which was in development before the sale. I do wonder how that would have turned out.

neatoman
03-09-2015, 03:52 AM
Mostly it's been positive, reprints of comics can make it all the way to my country, the current comics are of great quality and there's a good (albeit slow) cartoon.

Of course there's a bad movie but that's kind of it.

Allio
03-09-2015, 04:35 AM
your crazy the nick cartoon & bay movie are better than the crap mutation.

that's not exactly a great accomplishments.

and I actually don't mind The Next Mutation

Shark_Blade
03-09-2015, 04:52 AM
Pretty much content with everything.

CyberCubed
03-09-2015, 11:14 AM
The Playmates toyline has declined but it was also bad in the later 4kids years too. Besides we have a whole bunch of other companies making TMNT figures and retro figures, we got Lego TMNT which I never thought would happen, we get statues and collectors figures, etc.

Then again I'm not in my young 20's anymore, so I've lost interest in collecting toys in general. I remember when the 4kids series came out I was buying every new TMNT figure they made simply because I was so excited we had a new TMNT show on the air.

Then again I was only 17 when the 2003 series was airing so you can imagine being that young made me want to buy toys again to relive my childhood youth.

plastroncafe
03-09-2015, 11:47 AM
I remember being at SDCC in 2009, back before we knew the 25th Anniversary Party was a wake, and having so many artists in Artist Alley being excited that the Mirage Crew was there.

Dave Petersen, of Mouse Guard, and Gene Yang, who writes the Avatar Comics as well as I think...is he going to do Superman now too?
Both of them specifically asked me what I knew about Tales, because both dreamed of writing a TMNT story.

I know we would have gotten a new set of Mirage trades, because the one they sold at the Con had a Zero on the spine.

Since?
I don't follow the IDW series as closely as I should, though I really loved the Ghostbusters-TMNT x-over. I've stopped watching the Nick Toon due to a combination of not having cable and feeling tired of the direction they took the stories in. The live action was a trainwreck, and not in the fun way it could have been.

Still, there's always room for improvement.

CyberCubed
03-09-2015, 11:52 AM
Since?
I don't follow the IDW series as closely as I should, though I really loved the Ghostbusters-TMNT x-over. .

Why don't you follow the IDW series as closely as you should? I remember you saying you have over 1000 comics in floppies around your house. I'm sure following another series won't hurt you.

plastroncafe
03-09-2015, 11:58 AM
Couple of reasons.

I find the TELL Storytelling, as opposed to say SHOW storytelling, to be laborsome and unfulfilling to read. Also the pacing always seems to be break-neck, and there's very little time for the characters to regroup.

I've been busy.

And finally because F^&% YOU, that's why.
Why are you willfully insufferable, Cyber?
You are not the arbiter of what is or isn't hurtful to a person.
Your gatekeeper highhorse is a deadone, stop beating it.

Allio
03-09-2015, 12:12 PM
Better than saban's four years with power rangers (and 2 with digimon)

CowabungaMikey
03-09-2015, 12:16 PM
I love everything Viacom did with the Turtles. Great to see them back in action since 2009.

neatoman
03-09-2015, 12:19 PM
Better than saban's four years with power rangers (and 2 with digimon)

Aren't both of those just dubs?

I know there's a little bit more going on with Power Rangers but from what I can see it's never that different from Super Sentai.

sdp
03-09-2015, 12:21 PM
Saban has had PR for 5 years also I think. In the toy department it's been a mixed bag while the normal toylines are as bad as they've been in the past years at least the collectors line they got right. The actual shows took a dive writing wise and became a huge missed opportunity, part of the problem with the current PRs shows is actually Viacom's fault since they've only ordered 20 episodes per year instead of the usual 38 that PRs used to get. But Saban has been learning I think the new show seems to finally be on track, we're finally getting a new movie and we've gotten comics and cool merchandise. I'm optimistic about the future of PRs, also it being the biggest brand Saban has there is no worry that they'll shelf the PRs.

Bry
03-09-2015, 12:35 PM
Pre-sale we had a show I enjoyed (pre-Fast Forward, anyway), comics I mostly enjoyed (V4 and Tales V2, though each were spotty at times), a theatrical movie that was decent (it was certainly flawed, but also got a lot right), a toy line that I'd largely stopped following, a video game line that was... a mixed bag, but produced a few good/solid titles, and an era capped off with a truly great TV movie in Turtles Forever.

Post-sale we've got a show I enjoy, comics I really enjoy (the IDW team is killing it, and as a whole they're treating TMNT very well), a theatrical movie I hated with the fury of a thousand suns, a toy line I've entirely stopped following, and a video game line that's a mixed bag at best.

All said? I'm pretty happy. It's not perfect, and there's a lot of stuff happening now that would never get the Peter Laird Seal of Approval (which could be a good or a bad thing depending on your personal tastes), but some fresh blood in the creative process like Team IDW & Ciro and the Nick gang have helped rejuvenate the property in some really fun ways. I do wonder about what could have been -- especially re: the pre-Bay movie plans -- and in general I preferred it when TMNT was owned/run by Mirage, but that's strictly for personal reasons.

Anyway - the great stuff is offset by some truly terrible stuff, but... that's nothing new for this property since it really started branching out. Overall, I'm not really more or less happy now than I was before 2009. I'm glad there's good stuff being produced and I'm just gonna enjoy that as long as it lasts (while ignoring the crap).

Candy Kappa
03-09-2015, 01:12 PM
Aren't both of those just dubs?

I know there's a little bit more going on with Power Rangers but from what I can see it's never that different from Super Sentai.

There hasn't been a straight up Sentai dub since the late 70's iirc.

PR mostly in varying degrees uses Sentai footage and cuts it into their own story compared to the Sentai sow they use, and have their own actors potraying the characters in and out of costume.

Turtle_power_eh?
03-09-2015, 01:24 PM
If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.

^THIS!

I have loved the IDW comics thus far, The show has been pretty solid but I've only watched the first season and the few episodes of season 2 (although I did watch a few newer ones randomly...Napoleon and dream beavers?...sigh, not sure I dig the direction this is heading). Don't get me started on the latest movie...I still want my money back for that one.

But with all my complaints, the franchise would have been lost if Pete had held onto it.

IDW Comics>NickToon>2014 Movie.

Leave out that terrible "film" and I would be pretty happy...unfortunately it is a skid mark on the underwear of Hollywood.

Allio
03-09-2015, 03:34 PM
Saban has had PR for 5 years also I think. In the toy department it's been a mixed bag while the normal toylines are as bad as they've been in the past years at least the collectors line they got right. The actual shows took a dive writing wise and became a huge missed opportunity, part of the problem with the current PRs shows is actually Viacom's fault since they've only ordered 20 episodes per year instead of the usual 38 that PRs used to get. But Saban has been learning I think the new show seems to finally be on track, we're finally getting a new movie and we've gotten comics and cool merchandise. I'm optimistic about the future of PRs, also it being the biggest brand Saban has there is no worry that they'll shelf the PRs.

ashame the comics sucks

rickwj324
03-09-2015, 05:47 PM
To be brief, this sums up my feelings, too. But I'd say it's 2/4, as the toys are a pretty major part of the franchise, too. So I am pleased with the comics & cartoon, but not the toys or film(s).

IDW's original comics are very creative. They're very much in the vein of past material, across different eras. You can tell there is influence being taken from, & homage being paid to, the Archie & Mirage comics, & all 3 TMNT cartoon series, with there being drips & drops of other familiar flavors throughout. I feel that it at times pulls too much from the Fred Wolf/Playmates aesthetic & cast too much, but for the most part, I am less tolerating that & more so growing fond of old things in a new light. In other words, while I may not want X or Y to be a part of the book, they find a way to make me like it. So I'm more forgiving of it now. If nothing else, it can't be argued that IDW puts out a lot of high quality content, consistently. 3 TMNT books a month, if not more, when you count reprints & their many variations. Their host of artists is both broad in size & variation, giving opportunities to artists with very unique styles who may not otherwise have a spotlight position at one of The Big 2. This sort of indie operation is not unlike Mirage, who gave many of today's prominent artists their jump-start in both Mirage's guest era of the late 80's & their Tales Of TMNT Vol. 2 of the 2000's. So while they may be under the reigns of Viacom, it still has some working man's charm to it. Oh, & the crossovers! Whoo! X-files, Cthulu, Ghostbusters, it's all rad & feels right at home. While I'm not completely happy with IDW's treatment of Mirage works (the colored reprints have some pretty grievous errors), I am greatly appreciative of how they push/respect the original comics, there seems to be an effort there to raise awareness of the turtles' roots. Plus there's the fact they employ people like Dooney & Lawson to create new covers for these volumes, helping us to have a steady flow of new art from the awesome gang at Mirage. Not to mention doing the 30th anniversary book featuring new stories in each of the old school comic continuities. So us comic fans have it pretty damn good right now.

Nick's series is an amazingly strong program, I think. Much like IDW, they'll include something I'm unsure of, or against, & revitalize it in just such a way that it clicks perfectly, & makes you wonder how it hadn't been done before. The character designs, are in my opinion, the penultimate. The definitive look of a teenage mutant ninja turtle. They've got a uniform appearance while being different from one another in perfectly subtle ways, with their varying heights, head shapes, & facial features. The build of their limbs is taken from the very first drawing of the TMNT, so the Mirage turtles are immediately called to mind from their general appearance, which is heightened by the brown pads & grimy wraps. Just the same, they have a childlike charm that makes them endearing from the get-go, intertwined with anime & Japanese monster aesthetics, that tickle my geeky sensibilities in every way imaginable. & that goes for all characters on the show, really. April was always incredibly boring to me, aside from being the turtles' link to the human world, she's never offered much personality. But here, she's young, smart, sassy, & very funny. Maybe I'm biased for loving her new look & voice actor, but I think she's the best April to date (though I am not a fan of her psychic abilities). Shredder & Splinter are so perfectly badass & stoic, they've got such presence. I'm into ALL of the characterization, new designs, etc. All of that is infinitely appealing to me. On an art/visual level, the show is bonkers. It's really cinematic with it's laugh out loud humor, high octane martial arts, sci-fi & slasher tributes, & killer soundtrack. It's a giant love letter to pulp/cult media, which is what the TMNT were originally built on. Comics, cartoons, kung-fu movies, heavy metal, etc. It knows where it came from & wears the badge proudly. It's able to be dark & violent without offending censors or coming off as melodramatic, by utilizing psychedelic visuals, non-human cannon fodder, & using surrealistic body horror. It's clever in more ways than one. Unfortunately, there are times where it (by force, I think) relies too heavily on the say-so of Playmates toys, and/or whomever is pushing the Fred Wolf elements. The series had a brand new, fresh, yet very general, 4kids/Mirage/Archie kind of vibe for season 1 & portions of two, but then in season 2 it went into a somewhat formulaic pattern dubbed "Mutant Of The Week" by fans, during which plot would take a backseat to random humor & introducing one-off characters to promote the toyline, not unlike the original cartoon (which was awesomely crossed over into this one & will be again, so I hear). So while the story is wonderful, we don't always get as much of it as we'd like. But we don't know who is ultimately responsible for that. The breaks don't help, either. It seems now, halfway into season 3, that the tone is changing yet again, perhaps returning to a style more similar to that of season 1. Overall, the series focuses a lot on the actual ninja element of the property, which I feel is very important & often not given the attention it deserves. Similarly, they care very much for the heart & family dynamic, which includes celebrating your weirdness, individuality, & knowing that it's not always about blood but who has your back. Good themes to give kids, & important stuff to remind us adults. It's also very weird, the good kind of weird. Never weird for weirdness' sake, rather, it just plain feels right.

The other two aspects of the modern era TMNT, the toyline & new live action film, I cannot speak highly of. I tried to be brief, but I goofed up.

Playmates started off strong with wave 1. Detailed sculpts, plenty of cartoon accuracy, a large assortment of weapons (albeit unpainted), & the scale was decent, relatively. Over time, figures saw less & less paint, less articulation, worse scale, quality control issues, re-used parts, very basic sculpts that at times don't even match up with past figures or plain look cheap, etc. It just all went downhill. They still sometimes make nice sculpts in the basic line, though they're consistently hindered by ill-conceived, cost effective, setbacks. They're even harder to appreciate in-store, because when the toys are revealed to the public, they are fully painted. Production models do not reflect the same level of quality, despite being falsely marketed as such. The adult "collectors" lines were well intended but very poorly executed. They made a lot of promises they did not or could not keep, their promo was at times poorly worded, misrepresenting the products, quality control was at a low (Cross-eyed turtles, Rocksteady's neck unpainted, legs on backwards, etc), directionless articulation made it difficult for figures to hold their weapons, the "Henson" turtles looked nothing like the source material, fans were both ignored & teased, it goes on & on. & those Mirage turtles? Gross. I'd say they look like NECA bootlegs but that'd be a grand insult to NECA bootlegs, because, wow, somehow those are better than factory made collector pieces from a major corporation. In addition to that, Playmates' PR is virtually non-existent, they keep re-hashing concepts that haven't done well in the past, there are tons of variants/role-playing kits shelf-warming, I could go on forever. The struggle is real. On the bright side, Viacom seems to be hip to us now, & has been lending out the license to other toy creators, like Revoltech, so that we can get better pieces for our collections. A big upside.

What did I like about the new film? Well, it had very nice CGI (for the most part), showed the turtles as kids, which was cool, the turtles' voice actors were decent, aaaaaand that's it, I guess. I hate pretty much every single thing about it. Bad writing, bad editing, bad color palettes, bad script, bad plot, gaping plotholes, bad acting, bad cast, bad designs, iffy characterization, bad leaked stuff/re-shoots, unnecessary/terrible changes to lore, a staff who knows little to nothing about the TMNT, obvious product placement, generic score, crummy theme song, it's just all around terrible. No bueno. IDW & Nick's creative teams consist of fans & past turtle veterans, so they're good. The films creative team consists of a bunch of guys who make things go boom for bags of money, so it's bad.

My opinion is my opinion, not here for an argument.

All in all, I think the good outweighs the bad, but the bad is baaaaaaad.

100% agree!! I absolutely love the Nick toon! My favorite out of any turtles series for sure! I also love what IDW has done with the comics. I wasn't a fan of the latest movie, but I can tolerate it I guess (and my son loves it, so there's that).
As for the toys, the first wave was awesome! So much so that I started collecting them and decided to go back and collect the vintage stuff. It's truly a shame that the quality has degraded so much! I love the sculpts for most figures, but the lack of paint has gone beyond the point of ridiculousness!

rickwj324
03-09-2015, 05:49 PM
Honestly by the time the IDW comic ends and we can read the run from start to finish it'll probably be viewed as the definitive TMNT universe outside of Mirage.

Definitely! I hope this series has a VERY long run though before that happens.

mgambino
03-09-2015, 06:21 PM
I didn't like the movie, but I enjoy the Nick show quite a bit (particularly because it gives me something watch with my son that I can enjoy as much as he does).

I LOVE the IDW comic though. Seriously, I think its the gold standard for how to properly treat licensed material. It's clear that the people working on the series really care about the franchise and aren't treating it like a cash grab.

...and the art. As a comic fan (a serious, hardcore, ultra nerdy comic fan) I can honestly say that I've never encountered such a string of talented artists working on one project.

Mew
03-09-2015, 06:26 PM
Like the movie and show! Like most of the merch and toys, and I scored lucky and found a slue of TMNT stuff at the Dollar Tree! So yeah, I love what they have done!

Duke Nukem
03-09-2015, 07:37 PM
The 2k12 show is okay, I don't think it quite lives up to OT and is miles behind 2k3, but not terrible at least. I think it's possible that Laird's involvement with the 2k3 show may have quashed a few good ideas before they could become realized just because something about it didn't sit right with him personally. However, without him, I'm sure a ton of terrible ideas would have slipped through. That's pretty much what we're getting with the current show.

After years of expecting a sequel to the first four films, TMNT 2k14 flat out sucks compared to what I imagined we'd get, as has been repeated 70 million times by most of us.

I'm happy with IDW's comics so far, they're not 100% perfect but they're goddamn good. And, we still get whatever comics Laird may or may not write, so it's like the best of both worlds. New Animated Adventures is hit or miss (more miss than hit), but there's definitely been much worse before (Spaced Out, anyone?)

I can't speak on the toys because I know pretty much nothing about anything that came out after the early 90's. I guess it'd be cool if I could find the same enjoyment playing with toys as I did when I was a kid, but I can't imagine ever playing with them as a 30+ guy.

MrPliggins
03-09-2015, 08:35 PM
Nick Show: I'm currently at season 2, episode 15. I love all of the throwbacks in the show and there are some good laughs. Season 1 had me kind of bored, season 2 has been more interesting so far. I don't like many of the new character designs. I feel the show is geared more towards kids, which is probably why I have a hard time getting excited about it. Plus, it came after 2k3, which is a near perfect TMNT show IMO. This is the first TMNT show I don't feel the urge to watch every week.

IDW comic: I'm currently at issue 28. I like what I've read so far. Some characters seem thrown in just for the sake of using them, but that's ok. I hope this comic goes on for a long time. I think there are a bit too many variants.

Toys: I don't collect them. But I couldn't help but notice how awful the Mirage Turtles were. The very first wave of toys looked pretty cool, though.

Merchandising: I haven't seen this much merchandising everywhere since the '90s heyday. It's nice to see, and it's really establishing the Turtles as a lasting presence. The Turtles have now spanned generations. I don't think they'll disappear any time soon. And if they do, they'll be back.

Movie: It was adequate. It was good, mindless fun. I was expecting it to be much worse from the reviews. I'm not buying it, but I'll see the sequel.

Cipher
03-09-2015, 08:51 PM
Couple of reasons.

I find the TELL Storytelling, as opposed to say SHOW storytelling, to be laborsome and unfulfilling to read. Also the pacing always seems to be break-neck, and there's very little time for the characters to regroup.
'Ay, yo! There's a concise version of why my interactions with the IDW series are so spotty. The trend so far has been that about two or three times a year, I'll feel compelled to read it again and order a few trades; wind up kind of liking the ideas but be vaguely disappointed in the execution. I keep up with the series' development by way of TMNT Entity just to curb my curiosity, but, yeah ... plenty of times I've decided I was done with it wholesale. I'll keep checking it out, but damned if I know why. I guess I like it enough to want it to be better. The ideas are all there.

The Nick show is largely excellent, but I'm not the target audience for it. Like the comic, I'll check it out in spurts and generally enjoy myself when I catch up, but ... at the end of the day it's a kids' show, and glibly entertained is the most I can be by it (and impressed, on a technical level, but again that only goes so far).

The Viacom sale has meant getting available reprints of Mirage material, though, even if the methods for it haven't always been the best, and that's currently currying the most favor with me. The double-edged sword of being rescued from obscurity in that way is that future iterations of the franchise will continue onward in a kind of neutered way, though. Do I really care as long as the material I actually enjoy is kept available?

Not really? Maybe? Sure?

Some characters seem thrown in just for the sake of using them, but that's ok.
I think it's actually wildly distracting, but since I can't read the series in an alternate universe in which I'm not aware of who's a pre-existing character and who's not, I don't know if it's an entirely valid complaint. I'd be pretty interested in reading blow-by-blow reactions from someone with little to no familiarity with the franchise.

CyberCubed
03-09-2015, 09:37 PM
I notice a lot of people saying, "The Nick show is great, but its for kids" like its some kind of aside. I'm kinda baffled by that, since both the original cartoon and 4kids series was for kids too, and most of you watched and enjoyed those.

Sure we're all much older now than when the original toon and 4kids series originally aired (and as such we're less easily impressed now than back then), but the Nick show has smart and clever writing and great action scenes. Its far from perfect but its wholly entertaining.

Do you guys feel you're too old for cartoons or something? I'm close to being 30 and I don't feel like I have to stop liking kids shows if they're entertaining.

Cipher
03-09-2015, 10:20 PM
I notice a lot of people saying, "The Nick show is great, but its for kids" like its some kind of aside. I'm kinda baffled by that, since both the original cartoon and 4kids series was for kids too, and most of you watched and enjoyed those.
I did, when I was also a kid (Fred Wolf show) or closer to (4Kids, which also had the novelty of being a closer Mirage adaptation, which pulled a lot of weight with me at the time). The Nick show is probably a better production than either one and, like I said, I enjoy it (certainly don't think I'm too old to enjoy cartoons; Dragon Ball's still the bee's knees), but it's a novelty. It's really good for what it it is, but it's an episodic kid's cartoon, and even in that, as sleek as it is, not the most engaging I've seen. All respect due (and it deserves a lot), I wouldn't be checking in with it if I weren't interested in the franchise as a whole.

Gunstar_Red
03-09-2015, 10:48 PM
I don't know about long term, but I do love the revival. I get to collect new comics and old reprints in volumes, plenty of new cute plushes and trinkets, and new clothing.

I love the new comics and pretty okay overall with the new show. I was very disappointed with the 2014 movie, but sorta hopeful they fix a lot in the next movie.

I was one of those people who were certain the franchise was doomed when it was sold 5 years ago. But I didn't think Viacom would be lucky enough to have hired quite a few people who seem to care about TMNT to work on it (minus the movie). I think there's a lot of executive meddling with some things, but I'm happy that from what I hear who works on the cartoon and comics, they are able to do almost whatever they want.

Do you guys feel you're too old for cartoons or something? I'm close to being 30 and I don't feel like I have to stop liking kids shows if they're entertaining.

That's how I feel. I'm 28. If it's enjoyable to watch, I don't care if it's a cartoon. Shell, I have a current TMNT lunchbox and thermos I take to work everyday. If there's a care about what other people think, I don't have any.

pennydreadful
03-09-2015, 10:52 PM
I have a Nick Turtles lunchbox that I take to work every day as well. :tcool:

Gunstar_Red
03-09-2015, 10:55 PM
I have a Nick Turtles lunchbox that I take to work every day as well. :tcool:

Haha! Sweet! We are definitely the "cool kids" at our workplaces. :D

plastroncafe
03-09-2015, 11:03 PM
I'm too old to waste my time on bad cartoons, and money on bad products made in their image.

Quality stuff knows no age, regardless of what the marketing suits try to tell you.

TurtleTitan97
03-09-2015, 11:22 PM
Outside of the new movie, I enjoy the rest. Still enjoying the Nick show, and from what I've read of the IDW comics, those are pretty good too.

Gunstar_Red
03-09-2015, 11:25 PM
I'm too old to waste my time on bad cartoons, and money on bad products made in their image.

Quality stuff knows no age, regardless of what the marketing suits try to tell you.

That kinda makes me laugh. Each version has their really cool and well made products and a ton of crap that should have been dead on the cutting room floor. Don't pretend that previous version(s) were/was the best and had no faults.

For example, the OT is guilty for poor quality control for the show (which was not uncommon for a lot of cartons at the time) and cash grab toys. But hey, I don't bad mouth it and I still enjoy it for the campy cheesiness fluff. (That show is my go-to when I need something playing in the background when I'm home alone.) I still think their designs are so easily marketable by being so simple.

plastroncafe
03-09-2015, 11:58 PM
the question was whether not I thought I was too old to watch cartoons, not about whether or not I think the new cartoon is bad.

nowhere in my previous statement do I pass any judgement on previous incarnation of the cartoon.

rickwj324
03-10-2015, 05:50 AM
I'm close to being 30 and I don't feel like I have to stop liking kids shows if they're entertaining.

Dude...I'll be 45 this month and I absolutely love the Nick toon. I'm reading/watching/buying more TMNT stuff now than ever. :D

Gunstar_Red
03-10-2015, 06:16 AM
the question was whether not I thought I was too old to watch cartoons, not about whether or not I think the new cartoon is bad.

nowhere in my previous statement do I pass any judgement on previous incarnation of the cartoon.

It was vague to what you were replying to, the topic or Cube. Sorry for biting your head. ^^;

neatoman
03-10-2015, 09:21 AM
So I think we might need a few more years to really get a feeling of what Viacom likes to do with TMNT. We have had one major comic, one movie and one cartoon, maybe when there's a bit more of those things?


As for some predictions.

IDW will probably continue to publish TMNT comics for a long time to come, at least until 2021 I'd wager.

The movie series will get at least one more movie, probably more but there will be an eventual reboot. Let's say it reboots arounds... 2025-2030?

The Nicktoon seems like it could end at season 4, that would be around 2016-2017. Another one might hit one to three years later, 2017-2020.

CyberCubed
03-10-2015, 10:54 AM
IDW will probably continue to publish TMNT comics for a long time to come, at least until 2021 I'd wager.

I can see the IDW TMNT comic lasting about 10 years. Its most likely going to still go on after the cartoon ends.

The Nicktoon seems like it could end at season 4, that would be around 2016-2017. Another one might hit one to three years later, 2017-2020.

The Nick cartoon will probably do 7 seasons just like the 4kids series did before it ended. Ratings are still good and the merch sales keep it afloat. Likewise they'll likely want to keep the cartoon on the air for as long as the Bay Turtles movies are in theaters. I predict 7 seasons and a DTV movie.

ryukenden
03-10-2015, 10:04 PM
I had my doubts at first but I'm glad that the franchise is doing well and that the current generation is enjoying the show.

LeotheLateBloomer
03-12-2015, 09:34 AM
It's not all bad. There are some good things that have come out of this buyout.

I really like the 2012 series despite it's flaws. If they can lay off the pandering of the OT, it could be a lot better. But the people behind it have done their homework and know so much about turtle lore.

IDW is something I just got into reading and while I sort of dislike some of the art styles, the storytelling is pretty good. I look forward to reading future issues. I kinda wish IDW would buy the IP off of Viacom to be honest. But they're just a comic book publisher for existing brands, aren't they?

The 2014 is likely the biggest offender. While I initially thought the movie was okay at first, the more I watched it, the worse it got for me. These people didn't care about the story. JL probably just wanted to make a live action movie with a lot of action scenes. And this is a guy who says that he didn't want to ruin the source material. Pffftt! Kevin Eastman actually approved of this movie?! I'm starting to think he's becoming the Stan Lee of the IP. I can't wait to hear or read what Peter Laird has to say about this movie.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-12-2015, 09:52 AM
The 2014 is likely the biggest offender. While I initially thought the movie was okay at first, the more I watched it, the worse it got for me. These people didn't care about the story. JL probably just wanted to make a live action movie with a lot of action scenes. And this is a guy who says that he didn't want to ruin the source material. Pffftt! Kevin Eastman actually approved of this movie?! I'm starting to think he's becoming the Stan Lee of the IP. I can't wait to hear or read what Peter Laird has to say about this movie.

Actually, it's more like Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird were Firestorm together. Together, it was a perfect symbiotic relationship that had a balance of intellect and action, science-fiction and gritty urban warfare.

Separate the two? Disaster.

Kevin Eastman: the blood-bullets-boobs fest that was Bodycount and the mindless annual specials from IDW.

Peter Laird: the snooze-fest of Volume 4 that drags on... and on... and on... and never finishes, and never goes anywhere, and LOVES Al Gore and Apple.

So, in summary:

Blood-bullets-boobs + intellectual-scifi-overdose = Awesome TMNT

Warhorse
04-15-2015, 05:12 PM
OK, Netflix and Disney have paired together to show DareDevil, and people seem to like the way things are working out, think maybe we'll see the next incarnation give it a shot on Netflix, where it might have more room to grow as a series?

Prowler
04-15-2015, 05:39 PM
I don't see why any Turtle fan would be unsatisfied. The Turtles were pretty close to dying, and now they're the strongest they've been since the early 90s.

Even if the IDW comics and the Nick show have some things I don't like, at least it's better than having no Turtles at all. Now, the live action movies ,on the other hand, I'd rather not have them at all.

Shark_Blade
04-15-2015, 05:44 PM
I like everything so far - the 2014 movie, 2k12 series, IDW comics, Out of the Shadows, toys etc. Praise and thanks to God for all these gifts.

Best things in my mind right now: Donnie's "death" in IDW (rep boost for Bebop & Rocksteady, oh yeah!), creepy-horror elements in 2k12 (some examples: Season 2 Squirrelanoids & Season 3 Within the Woods), Megan Fox as the perfect April O' Neil, 2k12 Revoltech figures, 2k14 accurate 1/6 scale movie figures. :tlove: :tlove:

Leo656
04-15-2015, 09:25 PM
I don't see why any Turtle fan would be unsatisfied. The Turtles were pretty close to dying, and now they're the strongest they've been since the early 90s.


Depends, and it's a serious matter of opinion.

I personally, no matter how much I enjoy something, don't really need product for product's sake. If TMNT had "ended" a few years ago, we still as fans have been completely spoiled compared to how much attention TMNT has gotten compared to other popular franchises. If we had never gotten anything more, we still would have had plenty. And by and large, most of it was good.

Now that it's a fully-corporate product, there really is nowhere to go but down. Yes, we will consistently see more and more TMNT products being released and pushed, but... they're all of questionable quality. You can bet money that we will NEVER see another good TMNT movie, for starters, and that's a shame. The Nick show had a lot of potential, and it's alright, but the fact that it's entirely aimed at kids and dripping with 80s nostalgia and horrible writing has slowly pushed me away from it. There's only so much, "Well, it's aimed at kids" I can take before I just have to say, "Well, I get that, but it's still a badly-written show and I have other things to do." The toys, apparently, suck eggs, according to some of the members here who are making a point to collect them. The video games are pretty lousy, and even the best one, "Out of the Shadows", has gotten the "trash" label from the majority of people who played it (I don't agree with that, but it is the accepted consensus).

The only thing that really interests me, and that I've liked almost everything I've seen of it, is the IDW comics. And I'm not really collecting comics right now, so what I have seen is really limited. And even that's kind of heavy on cramming in 80s stuff "just because". But I like it better than everything else TMNT-related we've gotten for a few years.

So... (Deep breath) Feel free to call me a heathen, and I know I'm in a vast minority... but I'd honestly be happier if the sale didn't happen, even if it meant TMNT would have "faded away". As of 2010-ish, we'd already had a bunch of TMNT stuff and about 80% of it or more was "Good". Now, inevitably, the longer it gets the "push" as a big corporate product, the more crap we are going to see, and one day, as the franchise "grows" exponentially, the "Crap-To-Quality" ratio is going to flip upside down, we'll have much more Junk than Not-Junk, and that's going to be a shameful thing to see. We had a good balance. MOST of what's come out since the sale has frankly not been, objectively, very good. I don't see that trend slowing down, frankly.

"More" is not always "better", basically. Look at Mickey Mouse; he was, at one time, one of the most popular characters in the world. Now, his face is on everything from posters to toilet paper, so he remains one of the most recognizable characters in the world, but ask yourself how many people over the age of 5 even give a sh*t about Mickey Mouse? He's not at all "popular", he just sort of "exists", because he's a corporate mascot, and because he's a corporate mascot, it's impossible to do anything interesting with the character other than stick him on a T-shirt and sell it to grade schoolers.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. TMNT was "special"; it's not special anymore, it's just a product. I honestly think we were better off before. I'd be happier having a few things of good-to-great quality, than a never-ending ocean of mindless swill, which is the inevitable point the franchise is heading for.

Prowler
04-15-2015, 10:41 PM
Depends, and it's a serious matter of opinion.

I personally, no matter how much I enjoy something, don't really need product for product's sake. If TMNT had "ended" a few years ago, we still as fans have been completely spoiled compared to how much attention TMNT has gotten compared to other popular franchises. If we had never gotten anything more, we still would have had plenty. And by and large, most of it was good.

Now that it's a fully-corporate product, there really is nowhere to go but down. Yes, we will consistently see more and more TMNT products being released and pushed, but... they're all of questionable quality. You can bet money that we will NEVER see another good TMNT movie, for starters, and that's a shame. The Nick show had a lot of potential, and it's alright, but the fact that it's entirely aimed at kids and dripping with 80s nostalgia and horrible writing has slowly pushed me away from it. There's only so much, "Well, it's aimed at kids" I can take before I just have to say, "Well, I get that, but it's still a badly-written show and I have other things to do." The toys, apparently, suck eggs, according to some of the members here who are making a point to collect them. The video games are pretty lousy, and even the best one, "Out of the Shadows", has gotten the "trash" label from the majority of people who played it (I don't agree with that, but it is the accepted consensus).

The only thing that really interests me, and that I've liked almost everything I've seen of it, is the IDW comics. And I'm not really collecting comics right now, so what I have seen is really limited. And even that's kind of heavy on cramming in 80s stuff "just because". But I like it better than everything else TMNT-related we've gotten for a few years.

So... (Deep breath) Feel free to call me a heathen, and I know I'm in a vast minority... but I'd honestly be happier if the sale didn't happen, even if it meant TMNT would have "faded away". As of 2010-ish, we'd already had a bunch of TMNT stuff and about 80% of it or more was "Good". Now, inevitably, the longer it gets the "push" as a big corporate product, the more crap we are going to see, and one day, as the franchise "grows" exponentially, the "Crap-To-Quality" ratio is going to flip upside down, we'll have much more Junk than Not-Junk, and that's going to be a shameful thing to see. We had a good balance. MOST of what's come out since the sale has frankly not been, objectively, very good. I don't see that trend slowing down, frankly.

"More" is not always "better", basically. Look at Mickey Mouse; he was, at one time, one of the most popular characters in the world. Now, his face is on everything from posters to toilet paper, so he remains one of the most recognizable characters in the world, but ask yourself how many people over the age of 5 even give a sh*t about Mickey Mouse? He's not at all "popular", he just sort of "exists", because he's a corporate mascot, and because he's a corporate mascot, it's impossible to do anything interesting with the character other than stick him on a T-shirt and sell it to grade schoolers.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. TMNT was "special"; it's not special anymore, it's just a product. I honestly think we were better off before. I'd be happier having a few things of good-to-great quality, than a never-ending ocean of mindless swill, which is the inevitable point the franchise is heading for.
The movie definitely blew and the second one will most likely blow as well. Yea sucks that we wont' get a good movie anytime soon, I agree. As for the rest, while this current incarnation of the TMNT isn't my favorite and I think it's the weakest cartoon series of the 3, it still has some redeemable stuff. Although if I was younger, I'd enjoy it more, I'm sure. I can still enjoy Fred Wolf and the 4Kids toon fine after all these years, so I guess maybe this current cartoon doesn't have the "it" factor that appeals to both kids and adults?

And TMNT has been a corporate thing since the Fred Wolf series, pretty much. Okay, it belonged to two dudes instead of a company like Viacom, but mainstream TMNT has always been sorta kiddy.

Video games? Sadly the 4kids toon based ones sucked as well.

The toys suck? I cannot tell you about that I'm afraid. I've bought a few but they're all packed still. I mean, as a 24 year old guy I no longer can bring myself to play with toys and I dont' have any little brothers or cousins, so I see no need to open the toys. DO they break easily or something? My 4kids toys broke kinda easily and some had pretty stiff joints. My Raphael loss an arm after one month. A year later or so, I had to convince my mom to buy new Turtles again since they were all armless by next Christmas :lol:

CyberCubed
04-16-2015, 12:40 AM
I'm content with the Nick and IDW series, but after these two series end I wouldn't mind if TMNT is put on the shelf for a good 10 years.

We'll have 3 cartoons, three major comic series (Mirage, Archie and IDW), and multiple movies. That's more than enough for a while.

neatoman
04-16-2015, 01:28 AM
Video games? Sadly the 4kids toon based ones sucked as well.


And in all fairness when it comes to the 80's/90's era games, most of them are arcade style beat-em-ups, it's kind of hard to make one of those bad. The few that did not belong to that genre kind of sucked (I think we all know of that AVGN review). When I compare Tournament Fighters to the more popular fighting games of the early to late 90's, the only ones I can think of that are worse are the really early SNK games and the Mortal Kombat games.

Leo656
04-16-2015, 01:38 AM
Really? I liked Tournament Fighters. I mean, not really a fighting game guy, but I could play it and beat it. I'unno, I had some fun with it. SNES version, anyways. Never got my hands on the Genesis one.

Shark_Blade
04-16-2015, 01:59 AM
Holding off TMNT? Let it die into oblivion?

It may be enough for some longtime fan, but then you are preventing new generations from experiencing TMNT and that's pretty selfish. It's good they got to experience it now. It may not be to your liking, maybe some are biased by nostalgia, but the fact they like it is enough. You are not the target audience, they are. Different time, different preferences. Like, I know I could barely stay awake watching the old Star Wars trilogy but then that's considered heaten talk by the purists.

Good thing the fate of the franchise didn't fall into some unscrupulous fans. The sale to Nick/Viacom was the best decision ever made of this franchise - it was at a dying stage when TMNT 2k7 was released anyway. What a kickstart 2k12 was, absolutely brilliant way to revive a long run franchise.

Leo656
04-16-2015, 02:12 AM
Nah, if people have taste they'll go back to older things without having new product product thrown at them constantly. There are brand new fans of He-Man, Dick Tracy, Thundercats, Speed Racer and Voltron every day, and those things haven't been "relevant" in ages. But people go back and rediscover them every day. You don't need to constantly pump out new plastic to create a new audience for something. All of those things, like TMNT, were only a "fad" or a big deal for a few peak years, and yet, they've stayed moderately popular enough for decades, despite not being aggressively marketed or revived every few years. People just have a natural nostalgic curiosity. Even stuff that isn't being recycled never really "goes away", as long as it was popular enough at one point.

Now, what you're talking about is totally different. You're talking about trying to keep the TMNT brand "alive" as a fad or a phenomenon through constantly being branded and merchandised so that people will buy it. That has less to do with what's good or bad for TMNT or its fans, but everything to do with companies making money.

Point of fact: They could stop doing new TMNT merchandise, TV and movies tomorrow, and the brand would never really "die", because it's already long ago reached that certain level of popularity. People would forever talk about it, write about it, and occasionally create new content about it. And "new generations" of fans would be exposed to it and become fans of it even without a barrage of crummy movies. Other than Next Mutation, there was a near-drought of TMNT "content" for almost a decade. It survived. Think about just that for a second... TMNT survived, despite there being a time when TNM was the ONLY new TMNT content being made! That's pretty impressive in and of itself, honestly. It's strong enough to be kept alive purely though its own existing fanbase and the people they in turn expose to it, to the point where it honestly doesn't need a never-ending cycle of mediocre "stuff" being churned out by a corporation that only sees it as a way to make a few bucks.

I mean, I get it, you like having a never-ending stream of plastic thrown at you, with your favorite Corporate Brand logo on it. Fair enough. I'd still argue that it's damaging to the long-term integrity of the brand, though. Especially anyone who sees the potential of TMNT as something made for more than 6-year-olds.

neatoman
04-16-2015, 02:20 AM
Really? I liked Tournament Fighters. I mean, not really a fighting game guy, but I could play it and beat it. I'unno, I had some fun with it. SNES version, anyways. Never got my hands on the Genesis one.

Well it is kind of awkward compared to whatever the most recent version of Street Fighter 2 was out or King of Fighters '94. It's better than the Mortal Kombat games, but Mortal Kombat seemed prioritise gimmicks over the actual gameplay.

VaughnMichael
04-16-2015, 07:44 AM
Not too shabby but I'd really like to see the collectors market taken better care of and I'm not talking more statues.

shuriken
04-16-2015, 09:08 AM
Enjoying what I like, not really caring for what I don't. Same as it was under Pete. :P

This. sooo this. Plus Pete was done and he said so. IDW and the 2k12 toon are great. I don't really buy the figures and the movie was, mediocre at best and an abysmal bastardization at its worst.

Prowler
04-16-2015, 01:21 PM
And in all fairness when it comes to the 80's/90's era games, most of them are arcade style beat-em-ups, it's kind of hard to make one of those bad. The few that did not belong to that genre kind of sucked (I think we all know of that AVGN review). When I compare Tournament Fighters to the more popular fighting games of the early to late 90's, the only ones I can think of that are worse are the really early SNK games and the Mortal Kombat games.
The SNES version is pretty alright. Nothing special but a fun enough fighting game for Turtle fans.

I agree on the early MK games, but the early SNK games? I've only played the original KoF game(King of Fighter 94, I think) on the Wii Virtual Console, but I don't think it's bad at all.

neatoman
04-16-2015, 01:30 PM
The SNES version is pretty alright. Nothing special but a fun enough fighting game for Turtle fans.

I agree on the early MK games, but the early SNK games? I've only played the original KoF game(King of Fighter 94, I think) on the Wii Virtual Console, but I don't think it's bad at all.

KOF '94 is good. I'm talking about Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting, the earliest ones.

Prowler
04-16-2015, 01:38 PM
KOF '94 is good. I'm talking about Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting, the earliest ones.
Oh

I believe Fatal Fury was in the SNK Arcade Classics Vol. 1 for the WII and other consoles. At least I remember playing a game with the Bogards on it and they're originally from Fatal Fury. King of Fighters basically mixes the characters from ever SNK franchise.

neatoman
04-16-2015, 02:21 PM
Oh

I believe Fatal Fury was in the SNK Arcade Classics Vol. 1 for the WII and other consoles. At least I remember playing a game with the Bogards on it and they're originally from Fatal Fury. King of Fighters basically mixes the characters from ever SNK franchise.

Yes that is true. You know it's funny, despite KOF having been intended as a mere crossover it's far more successful than the other SNK franchises.

Wanna know another thing? King of Fighters has a seperate continuity from Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting, why is that necessary? Because Art of Fighting ended turning out to be a prequel to Fatal Fury set in the 70's, they were already in continuity but the only for KOF to be part of the same timeline is the AoF characters were 20 years older than the Fatal Fury characters!:lol:

It's as if someone decided to make a non-canon show featuring both The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra characters, without any explaination for why the Last Airbender characters are not older and then that show lasted 20 seasons, basically subplanting the old canon. It's hilarious when you think about it!:lol:

LincolnHawk
04-16-2015, 03:22 PM
hot doo doo on the street

LincolnHawk
04-16-2015, 03:23 PM
I like everything so far - the 2014 movie, 2k12 series, IDW comics, Out of the Shadows, toys etc. Praise and thanks to God for all these gifts.

Best things in my mind right now: Donnie's "death" in IDW (rep boost for Bebop & Rocksteady, oh yeah!), creepy-horror elements in 2k12 (some examples: Season 2 Squirrelanoids & Season 3 Within the Woods), Megan Fox as the perfect April O' Neil, 2k12 Revoltech figures, 2k14 accurate 1/6 scale movie figures. :tlove: :tlove:

I hope you are being sarcastic

NYShell
04-16-2015, 04:51 PM
Still wish Mirage owned it. The current show is ehh. The current movie is ehh, but fun. Doesn't feel the same anymore after the Nick buy out.

Xav
04-16-2015, 05:33 PM
Nah, if people have taste they'll go back to older things without having new product product thrown at them constantly. There are brand new fans of He-Man, Dick Tracy, Thundercats, Speed Racer and Voltron every day, and those things haven't been "relevant" in ages. But people go back and rediscover them every day. You don't need to constantly pump out new plastic to create a new audience for something. All of those things, like TMNT, were only a "fad" or a big deal for a few peak years, and yet, they've stayed moderately popular enough for decades, despite not being aggressively marketed or revived every few years. People just have a natural nostalgic curiosity. Even stuff that isn't being recycled never really "goes away", as long as it was popular enough at one point.But He-Man, Thundercats, Speed Racer and Voltron have all had cartoons/comics/video games released in the last frew years.

Jephael
04-16-2015, 07:10 PM
When was the last time we saw a Dick Tracy remake?

Shark_Blade
04-16-2015, 07:12 PM
I hope you are being sarcastic
Why would I be?

Leo656
04-16-2015, 08:13 PM
But He-Man, Thundercats, Speed Racer and Voltron have all had cartoons/comics/video games released in the last frew years.

Not so anybody'd really notice it though. :lol:

That's the thing, they pop up every now and again for a little while, they go away for a long time, and they come back. People keep going back to them even if they don't have a constant "push" in the form of TV and movies, etc.

That's kind of exactly the point I was making. That you don't need to constantly stuff it in people's faces to get a "new generation" involved with it. That new generation of fans is always going to create itself, even with minimal outside help.

When was the last time we saw a Dick Tracy remake?

Too goddamn long ago, if you ask me. Y'know, if they remade L.A. Noire with the Dick Tracy license, I would play it every day forever, even if it was the exact same game. :lol:

Shark_Blade
04-16-2015, 08:50 PM
Found there was a Dick Tracy remake in 2012 albeit it's a piss poor ripoff..

http://i.imgur.com/WJjDUeN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xNpt4sb.jpg

John Pannozzi
04-16-2015, 09:59 PM
When was the last time we saw a Dick Tracy remake?

Well, the comic strip (http://www.gocomics.com/dicktracy) is still around.

CyberCubed
04-16-2015, 11:39 PM
Still wish Mirage owned it. The current show is ehh. The current movie is ehh, but fun. Doesn't feel the same anymore after the Nick buy out.

But the point is if Mirage still owned it we wouldn't be getting anything right now. Peter Laird can't even bother to finish Volume 4. And the 4kids series concluded.

We were literally dead in the water with Mirage.

Shark_Blade
04-17-2015, 01:01 AM
That's why the Nick/Viacom sale was a blessing. Abundance of OT elements in Nick, IDW and even the 2k14 movie. :tlove: Tbh I don't even know much of the OT characters; I find it satisfying to read their past histories and look up their episodes.

Jephael
04-17-2015, 10:39 AM
That's why the Nick/Viacom sale was a blessing. Abundance of OT elements in Nick, IDW and even the 2k14 movie. :tlove: Tbh I don't even know much of the OT characters; I find it satisfying to read their past histories and look up their episodes.

I'm kinda that way with Next Mutation. Never got into that show, but at the same time it had a really impressive rogues gallery from what I understand.

LincolnHawk
04-22-2015, 01:29 PM
Why would I be?

cause she was god awful in the movie

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-11-2015, 07:30 AM
If the 2009 purchase hadn't happen, we would probably right now experience the same lack as during the late 1990s. Or remember?

*1987 cartoon: cancelled November 1996
*Archie: cancelled March 1996
*Next Mutation: cancelled March 1998
*Mirage-Image comics: cancelled October 1999

then it slowly came back:
*Mirage Comics: returned December 2001, Tales of the TMNT soon restarted
*2003 cartoon: start February 2003
*Dreamwave Comics: start 2003 (OK, didn't last long)
*2007 film

then came:
*2003 cartoon: cancelled February 2009
*Mirage Comics-Tales of the TMNT: less and less issues published

then we would probably have some lacking years again, but instead it was all purchased and we got:

*IDW comics: started August 2011
*2012 cartoon: started september 2012
*2014 film, 2016 film

But I think many people rahter want the franchise to die out instead of getting exposed to commercialism over and over again.

slashpieturtlemix
05-11-2015, 10:06 AM
As a HUGE tmnt fan I am pleased with everything the franchise is doing. I saw the show, read the comics and seen the movie and I saw no real reason to complain about any of them.

The show feels safe to me too but the plot does move. The animation industry in the US got torn inside out and this is what is left. The story moves along and it has decent plots. I don't like their deviation from the plot every five or six episodes but they are trying to appease to fans with extra mutants, mutanimals, etc. Our fans are just hilariously picky and complain about everything.

The movie was good to me. They were some moments that I was just dumb struck (how Splinter learned ninjitsu through a shaddy martial arts book) but besides the designs, I actually liked it. I have been a bay hater since I started collecting transformers and I think he did a very nice job on this. Everything from what I saw actually made sense. Plus the writer was obviously a fan because he tossed in some awesome tmnt jokes for us (like the tcri container, the joke about it being from space, etc).

The comic is my favorite at the moment. I haven't been able to get all of them yet but the IDW series is amazing. They have impressed me every step of the way since they did the krang wars. Plus making the Neutrinos awesome is a serious plus in my book! Commandos > surfer dorks.

My main gripe with this franchise is that people complain way to much lol luckily I have seen worse in the Transformers community. Those dudes just need to get another hobby if they hate people so much lol

Powder
05-11-2015, 12:09 PM
Plus the writer was obviously a fan because he tossed in some awesome tmnt jokes for us (like the tcri container, the joke about it being from space, etc).l

http://i62.tinypic.com/1043ue0.gif

slashpieturtlemix
05-11-2015, 12:18 PM
http://i62.tinypic.com/1043ue0.gif

lol looks like a seizure moment!

Powder
05-11-2015, 01:33 PM
lol looks like a seizure moment!

http://i58.tinypic.com/vsma21.gif

slashpieturtlemix
05-11-2015, 01:40 PM
http://i58.tinypic.com/vsma21.gif

The giff looks like a seizure that you posted. That's what I was referring to.

Galactus
05-11-2015, 07:06 PM
But the point is if Mirage still owned it we wouldn't be getting anything right now. Peter Laird can't even bother to finish Volume 4. And the 4kids series concluded.

We were literally dead in the water with Mirage.

I don't get why people think this?

The was movie deal in place. It was the deciding factor for Nickelodeon purchasing the franchise if I recall correctly because the work had been done.

There was also some talk of licensing the comic rights to company like Dark Horse to do their own series as well as reprints of Mirage material.

The only thing missing would have been an animated series and while Laird may not have wanted to dip his toe in it so soon after the 4kids series but I think it would have happened sooner rather than later.


Plus the writer was obviously a fan because he tossed in some awesome tmnt jokes for us (like the tcri container, the joke about it being from space, etc).

I don't think we can definitively prove that wrong but I'm sure I can make a good case.

What little interviews we had with Nemec and Applebaum they obviously didn't say so but they never portrayed themselves as big fans and I don't know if you've read the leaked Blue Door script they wrote but I don't think anyone would come away thinking that was written by fans.

Perhaps the biggest case for this is the third writer (Evan Daughtery) was brought in to help tweak their script because he had some knowledge of the franchise. That pretty much supposes that the other two had little to no TMNT knowledge.

As for the various callbacks Jonathan Liebesman himself said that he and his people eventually skimmed through TMNT related things online specifically for easter eggs to add. While neat to have I would have preferred they'd based their actual story on TMNT.

Leo656
05-11-2015, 09:44 PM
"It's just a toy movie, we can do this. Nobody's gonna care." That was 100% their approach to writing the movie. They figured all they had to do was get the names right, and the marks would fall in line and fall in love with it.

Shamefully, a decent number of people proved their assumptions correct.