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View Full Version : What were your reactions when you saw Shredder decapitated?


TurtleFan2012
04-13-2015, 03:49 PM
When you first saw the episode where Shredder's head gets cut off, were you guys shocked? At the time we didn't know Shredder was an alien.

Did you guys thought he was gone for good? What was going on in your heads at the time?

TurtleTitan97
04-13-2015, 03:50 PM
Not really shocked, actually.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-13-2015, 04:00 PM
Not really shocked, actually.

My reaction was a wide-eyed "SQUEEEEEEEEEE!" of shocked delight.

Candy Kappa
04-13-2015, 04:10 PM
I knew there was something fishy about it.

Andrew NDB
04-13-2015, 04:19 PM
I'd already knew about it, but given how truly terrible the rest of the episode is, and that the episode made sure and show you (before the end credits rolled) that Shredder was OK, I just rolled my eyes.

TurtleTitan97
04-13-2015, 04:21 PM
I'd already knew about it, but given how truly terrible the rest of the episode is, and that the episode made sure and show you (before the end credits rolled) that Shredder was OK, I just rolled my eyes.

Yeah, showing that Shredder was ok at the end kinda killed it. Probably would have been best if they hadn't shown that part.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-13-2015, 04:23 PM
I'd already knew about it, but given how truly terrible the rest of the episode is, and that the episode made sure and show you (before the end credits rolled) that Shredder was OK, I just rolled my eyes.

Really? Terrible? Dude, you're of course entitled to your own opinion, but for something like that, at least please explain a bit why it grated on your nerves... you have both my attention and curiosity!!!

DarkLightDragon
04-13-2015, 04:48 PM
At first surprised to see something like that be shown on TV. But, then noticed how no blood was gushing out from the neck and how the body almost robotically collapsed instead of it being naturally instant.

Kind of gave it away that he wasn't human even if you ignore how the episode ends and how he survived having a water tower fall on him in The Shredder Strikes Part 2.

ABrown
04-13-2015, 05:01 PM
When Leo initially cut off his head, I just assumed that Shredder was just going to be a first season villain. But then when Shredder's headless body got up and walked away, I spend the next eight episodes wanting an explanation. The possibility of Shredder being an utrom never entered my mind until Secret Origins. Even after part one of that story it was obvious that's what he was.

At first surprised to see something like that be shown on TV. But, then noticed how no blood was gushing out from the neck and how the body almost robotically collapsed instead of it being naturally instant.

Even if Shredder had been human, they weren't going to animate blood gushing out of his headless body. That just wasn't going to happen.

DarkLightDragon
04-13-2015, 05:18 PM
Wasn't asking for it to happen. Just thought it looked unnatural if the audience is supposed to believe he was a human up until that point. Even again ignoring prior hints that he might've not been one.

neatoman
04-13-2015, 06:20 PM
I'd already knew about it, but given how truly terrible the rest of the episode is, and that the episode made sure and show you (before the end credits rolled) that Shredder was OK, I just rolled my eyes.

What was terrible about it?
Let me guess, it "ruined" a "totally dark and serious" comic book issue? If so, get over it, the Mirage stories (that one included) were never that dark.

Jephael
04-13-2015, 06:31 PM
I remember being pretty surprised when it happened, though similar to Andrew I was a little bummed out when it was later revealed that it was just an exo-suit for an evil Utrom pretending to be Shredder.

CyberCubed
04-13-2015, 06:31 PM
I was shocked as I watched it when it first aired, only because Shredder got up and picked up his "head."

This was before we knew he was an Utrom, so at the time everyone thought he was immortal or some kind of God or something. You can probably dig up the old review thread from 2004 and read peoples reactions from a decade ago

Jephael
04-13-2015, 06:34 PM
at the time everyone thought he was immortal or some kind of God or something

I can't help but wonder how the show would've gone had they done that instead of making him an evil Utrom.

CyberCubed
04-13-2015, 06:35 PM
I can't help but wonder how the show would've gone had they done that instead of making him an evil Utrom.

Well we did technically get that with Demon Shredder afterward, he was essentially over 1000 years old.

turtlefanforever
04-13-2015, 07:02 PM
Sensei i just need to learn more.

really i just was kind of amazed. I'm glad they did it though and got away with it. Really added a lot to the show

Leo656
04-13-2015, 10:40 PM
I knew there was something fishy about it.

Yeah. I liked it, and I literally went, "..............HUH." out loud, but then when they had him pick his head up 5 seconds later I was like, "Huh," but in a different way. Gotta confess, my money was at first on some kind of cyborg rather than an alien, but I did start to think that 5 seconds later.

To "New Guys", with regard to Andrew:

"Not Mirage = Total Blashpemy."

So, yeah, really no need for any follow-up questions. That's pretty much the answer. To everything. :trazz:

mrminister4446
04-14-2015, 05:03 AM
I was like "AWEESSOOOMEE" when his head was cut off, then I was like "BADASSS"when he picked up his head :P

I also could have never ever guessed he was an utrom, I thought he was some sort of god/demon/magical person thingy...

Icebot
04-14-2015, 08:19 AM
I thought it was the end of Shredder. I actually didn't believe in the scene where he picks up his head and walks until I found out he's an Utrom.

Turtle Park
04-14-2015, 10:06 AM
The first time I saw Leo cut his head off, I believe they finally kill the Shredder, so it is really surprise me when he wakes up and pick up his head.
In that time, I do think he is the being beyond human, but never thought he will be an alien, when his identity reveal in secret origins arc, it was kinda suck.
Because that means his power is from his pilot(wonder if it's the right word to use)skill instead of actual martial art.
But I ignore that thing after watched all episodes.

Andrew NDB
04-14-2015, 11:19 AM
Really? Terrible? Dude, you're of course entitled to your own opinion, but for something like that, at least please explain a bit why it grated on your nerves... you have both my attention and curiosity!!!

Yes, a big poop in the face of the real "Return to New York." Yep, right in the mouth. I mean, I really, really wanted to like it (I was trying to marathon run through all the 4Kids eps before, sure that this I would like, at least)... but every scene was either wacky or just felt like a toy commercial, absolutely the antithesis of what it was "trying" to adapt. From what I vaguely remember (believe me, I've been trying to forget the episode) it lost me somewhere around the Turtles fighting some weird floating, whirling dervish guys in an atrium.

Prowler
04-14-2015, 11:41 AM
I was pretty taken aback. And being what, 13 at the time, naturally I found it badass and awesome. Him picking up his head kinda killed it, but hey, it's a kids cartoon. Decapitating him was already a huge risk, even if he turned out to be non-human later.

Man, this show sure got away with a lot considering we're living in very PC and overtly sensitive times.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 11:59 AM
Yes, a big poop in the face of the real "Return to New York." Yep, right in the mouth. I mean, I really, really wanted to like it (I was trying to marathon run through all the 4Kids eps before, sure that this I would like, at least)... but every scene was either wacky or just felt like a toy commercial, absolutely the antithesis of what it was "trying" to adapt. From what I vaguely remember (believe me, I've been trying to forget the episode) it lost me somewhere around the Turtles fighting some weird whirling dervish guys in an atrium.

So the story with the featuring unexplained Triceraton (seriously, there's no explaination for why Zog is on earth), Raph playing around in a weird robot thing, mutant clones of Shredder and Shredder himself revealing that he is a clone made up of magic worms, did not at all come across as "wacky" to you? Not to mention, the original story is full of corny dialouge and really does not have whatever deeper meaning you're implying, it's basically a re-revenge story that is mostly just an action romp. Honestly, it's good but it's not amazing.

Andrew, this is why I can't this kind of criticism seriously. It's not like I didn't enjoy reading the Mirage stories once I actually got the chance to read them, but it's not like I didn't see the glaring problems they had, so to me it's fully understandable to make changes to them. Shortly after I read the Ultimate Collection and some of the other material IDW reprinted, I went ahead re-watched those first four seasons and guess what?

Most of the stories are basically the same! Seriously, there's basically no difference in most of them except some filler and slight alterations. The ones that do contain signifigant alterations throughout are that way because the original issues had severe problems.

Like issue 14 for example, in which they made it less of a detective story and changed what the stolen item was, but I didn't mind these changes because the original story is an incomprehensive pile of ****.

Prowler
04-14-2015, 12:02 PM
Yes, a big poop in the face of the real "Return to New York." Yep, right in the mouth. I mean, I really, really wanted to like it (I was trying to marathon run through all the 4Kids eps before, sure that this I would like, at least)... but every scene was either wacky or just felt like a toy commercial, absolutely the antithesis of what it was "trying" to adapt. From what I vaguely remember (believe me, I've been trying to forget the episode) it lost me somewhere around the Turtles fighting some weird floating, whirling dervish guys in an atrium.

I know you love Mirage Comics more than anything else, but did you seriously expect anything different from a cartoon adaptation? I mean you knew it was gonna be for kids all along once it was announced, didn't you? It was on FoxBox, after all...

Andrew NDB
04-14-2015, 12:19 PM
So the story with the featuring unexplained Triceraton (seriously, there's no explaination for why Zog is on earth),

Yes there is.

Raph playing around in a weird robot thing,

I don't think he was playing around in it. I think he was trying (and succeeding) to kill a lot of Foot Soldiers in their warehouse.

mutant clones of Shredder and Shredder himself revealing that he is a clone made up of magic worms did not at all come across as "wacky" to you?

I thought it was both grotesque as it was clever. And scary.

Not to mention, the original story is full of corny dialouge and really does not have whatever deeper meaning you're implying, it's basically a re-revenge story that is mostly just an action romp.

As opposed to what? The Turtles thriving on camp and running into guys like Garbageman and other action figures of the week?

And yes, the early Mirage stuff is kind of a tragic circle of blood debts... Saki avenging Nagi, Splinter avenging Yoshi (by way of the TMNT), the Foot avenging Saki. Eventually the Turtles become hip to that and pull themselves out of that vicious cycle and it becomes, "What is our place in the world?" for which there's never really a simple answer. And I dig that. Do things get wacky from time to time, and do the Turtles joke around? Of course, but that's hardly its foundation.

4Kids and Fred Wolf and all that is just, "Duuuude! Let's go on wacky adventures and fight evil people because we're crime fighters, for no reason or motivation whatsoever. And eat a lot of pizza, because cowabunga!!!"

At least the Nick show isn't trying to pretend it's taking itself seriously, or remotely trying to masquerade as the Mirage material. And it's genuinely funny.

I know you love Mirage Comics more than anything else, but did you seriously expect anything different from a cartoon adaptation? I mean you knew it was gonna be for kids all along once it was announced, didn't you? It was on FoxBox, after all...

Not really, particularly after watching the episodes that preceded it. But I was hoping.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 12:39 PM
Yes there is.

Well, then they sure as hell didn't say it the three times I read that story.



I don't think he was playing around in it. I think he was trying (and succeeding) to kill a lot of Foot Soldiers in their warehouse.

Fair enough, but it still looks ridiculous.



I thought it was both grotesque as it was clever. And scary.

Maybe Resident Evil spoiled me, I've seen far horrifying, to me it was just silly.

As opposed to what? The Turtles thriving on camp and running into guys like Garbageman and other action figures of the week?

Garbageman only had two episodes, yes they were terrible, but they were few.


And yes, the early Mirage stuff is kind of a tragic circle of blood debts... Saki avenging Nagi, Splinter avenging Yoshi (by way of the TMNT), the Foot avenging Saki. Eventually the Turtles become hip to that and pull themselves out of that vicious cycle and it becomes, "What is our place in the world?" for which there's never really a simple answer. And I dig that.

Oh you mean issue 1! After which they mostly get into stories like "Mikey saves Christmas" or "Evil scientist commits crimes because it's fun" or how about "Run around after cow sculpture". Seriously, who are you fooling but yourself?

Leo656
04-14-2015, 12:41 PM
I wonder what Sacred Cow tastes like.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 01:00 PM
I wonder what Sacred Cow tastes like.

In this case? Like selective memories.

Leo656
04-14-2015, 01:08 PM
Touche'....

Andrew NDB
04-14-2015, 02:09 PM
Well, then they sure as hell didn't say it the three times I read that story.

I don't know if it's implicitly stated (though I feel like it was), but anyone reading through the books should be able to put two and two together -- he's one of the 3 Triceratons that were transported to Earth with the TMNT in that first outer space story arc. In fact... I don't think the other 2 have ever been accounted for. Does anyone remember?

Maybe Resident Evil spoiled me, I've seen far horrifying, to me it was just silly.

I hope you're not talking about the movie...

But yeah, the games weren't out when I first read "Return to New York."

Garbageman only had two episodes, yes they were terrible, but they were few.

Do you really want a flowchart of all the nonsense?

Oh you mean issue 1!

Uh, no. Yoshi's vengeance on Nagi for Shen, Saki's vengeance on Yoshi for Nagi, and Splinter's vengeance on Saki for Yoshi (via the TMNT) was covered in #1, but then we got Saki's vengeance on the Turtles for himself in the Leo special, #10, and #19-21. And then the Foot's vengeance on the Turtles for Saki sporadically leading up to "City at War," and then "City at War" was all about that (#50-62). And there's still been hiccups about the uneasy truce reached therein (Vol. 3, bits of Vol. 4 and Tales V2).

After which they mostly get into stories like "Mikey saves Christmas" or "Evil scientist commits crimes because it's fun" or how about "Run around after cow sculpture". Seriously, who are you fooling but yourself?

Those are just 2 issues and 1 special. And even when they went to outer space, the material was still suitably toned... for example, I seem to recall Donatello's bo breaking, and him stabbing a Triceraton to death in the neck with it.

TMNT #1 speaks for itself. #9 was a fairly gritty showing of them when they were pre-teens. #10 and the Leo special was some of the grittiest fare TMNT has seen. #11, a nice retrospective. #17 we get our first look at Michelangelo the writer. #19-21 is RTNY... awesome, and #21 is probably my favorite issue of any comic of all time. #24-26, "The River" is pretty badass. #28, another retrospective, and the first time a spotlight is really shined on how alone the TMNT are (as opposed to 90% of the other universes, where they're... not, suffice to say). #29, it's Turtles vs. vampires and it's Farley... what's not to like? #37, "Twilight of the Ring"... a story as spiritual as it is gritty and crazy. #42 more spiritualism (darker so) and vengeful Savanti wife. #43, Hall of Lost Legends... more Farley, and the Turtles pretty grittily going toe-to-toe with Greek Gods and monsters of myth and a very moving tale of the Turtles' worth within the context of their everyday lives that no one will probably ever even know about. #44 more urban grit, from Rick Arthur. #45, basically a City at War prelude from Berger. #48 and #49 some pretty bleak stuff with Casey killing a kid and getting really drunk. #50-62... "City at War."

And that's just the first volume. And it's not that every story must or should be gritty ninja stuff, all the contrary. The Turtles can confront other ninjas, or go to space, or time travel, or fight a monster in the forest... yes, they can do all of these things (and well), but without endless sight gags and camp and "Let's stop and look at how stupid Mikey is in this episode! Bwahahah!!" and a gamut of action figures/vehicles of the week stories.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 02:22 PM
I don't know if it's implicitly stated (though I feel like it was), but anyone reading through the books should be able to put two and two together -- he's one of the 3 Triceratons that were transported to Earth with the TMNT in that first outer space story arc. In fact... I don't think the other 2 have ever been accounted for. Does anyone remember?


They were all sent back, they even say so.


Those are just 2 issues and 1 special. And even when they went to outer space, the material was still suitably toned... for example, I seem to recall Donatello's bo breaking, and him stabbing a Triceraton to death in the neck with it.

TMNT #1 speaks for itself. #9 was a fairly gritty showing of them when they were pre-teens. #10 and the Leo special was some of the grittiest fare TMNT has seen. #11, a nice retrospective. #17 we get our first look at Michelangelo the writer. #19-21 is RTNY... awesome, and #21 is probably my favorite issue of any comic of all time. #24-26, "The River" is pretty badass. #28, another retrospective, and the first time a spotlight is really shined on how alone the TMNT are (as opposed to 90% of the other universes, where they're... not, suffice to say). #29, it's Turtles vs. vampires and it's Farley... what's not to like? #37, "Twilight of the Ring"... a story as spiritual as it is gritty and crazy. #42 more spiritualism (darker so) and vengeful Savanti wife. #43, Hall of Lost Legends... more Farley, and the Turtles pretty grittily going toe-to-toe with Greek Gods and monsters of myth and a very moving tale of the Turtles' worth within the context of their everyday lives that no one will probably ever even know about. #44 more urban grit, from Rick Arthur. #45, basically a City at War prelude from Berger. #48 and #49 some pretty bleak stuff with Casey killing a kid and getting really drunk. #50-62... "City at War."

And that's just the first volume. And it's not that every story must or should be gritty ninja stuff, all the contrary. The Turtles can confront other ninjas, or go to space, or time travel, or fight a monster in the forest... yes, they can do all of these things (and well), but without endless sight gags and camp and "Let's stop and look at how stupid Mikey is in this episode! Bwahahah!!" and a gamut of action figures/vehicles of the week stories.

Whatever. I suppose you forget about the gags in comics then?

"...Tarter sauce, and mustard, phew! Bagbalm, garlic and mixed salts too! Pickles, onions and some special kind of goo! Tutti-frutti skip-a-dee Doo! Up my dead, get a clue, it's time to live, there's lot's to do!..."

Want another quote from these comics or is this enough?

Andrew NDB
04-14-2015, 02:34 PM
They were all sent back, they even say so.

They haven't always been truthful.

Whatever. I suppose you forget about the gags in comics then?

Who said there can't be any gags? Not me.

"...Tarter sauce, and mustard, phew! Bagbalm, garlic and mixed salts too! Pickles, onions and some special kind of goo! Tutti-frutti skip-a-dee Doo! Up my dead, get a clue, it's time to live, there's lot's to do!..."

Want another quote from these comics or is this enough?

Wow, the Turtles goof around from time to time. Of course they do, why wouldn't they? But it's not nonstop and it's not anywhere near the level of the other universes, or at a consistently infantile level.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 03:20 PM
Wow, the Turtles goof around from time to time. Of course they do, why wouldn't they? But it's not nonstop and it's not anywhere near the level of the other universes, or at a consistently infantile level.

You know the funny thing is that it's no even one of the Turtles I was quoting, it was Savanti Romero.

Anyway, within the Mirage comics, the Turtles actually do joke around quite a lot to be honest, even during what one would consider the "serious" parts (noticed a few while quickly skimming Return to New York just now). You are right about it not being quite as frequent as most other versions, but that mostly seem to be because there's less focus on dialogue and more on the visuals (which is certainly one of the strengths of the series). But there is certainly more comedy in there than you're letting on and I would not say it's the most mature type of comedy either.

I don't have these long standing memories of these comics, as I didn't start reading them until three years ago, so it's quite fresh in my memory. What I discovered is that the Mirage series, despite what I've been told all these years and when cut through superficial differences, is not really that different from the rest of the franchise. It's slighty more adult and calmer at times. In fairness volume 1 starts out and ends with more mature themes but in general it's still over the top, fantastical, somewhat goofy and there is a certain sense of humor to it. Just like how the rest of the franchise is.

But I guess you don't want to admit how similar it really is to the rest of the franchise, do you?

Jephael
04-14-2015, 03:26 PM
I don't have these long standing memories of these comics, as I didn't start reading them until three years ago, so it's quite fresh in my memory. What I discovered is that the Mirage series, despite what I've been told all these years and when cut through superficial differences, is not really that different from the rest of the franchise. It's slighty more adult and calmer at times. In fairness volume 1 starts out and ends with more mature themes but in general it's still over the top, fantastical, somewhat goofy and there is a certain sense of humor to it. Just like how the rest of the franchise is.

But I guess you don't want to admit how similar it really is to the rest of the franchise, do you?

http://media.giphy.com/media/lI6nHr5hWXlu0/giphy.gif

plastroncafe
04-14-2015, 03:29 PM
It's not similar to the rest of the franchise, the rest of the franchise is similar to it. I know, a pedantic correction, but an important one from where I'm standing.

You couldn't have the other iterations if it hadn't been for Mirage Vol 1, where as the reverse just isn't true.

I wouldn't compare the Mirage Vol 1 books to any other part of the franchise.
I think they're too different on almost every level.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 03:48 PM
It's not similar to the rest of the franchise, the rest of the franchise is similar to it. I know, a pedantic correction, but an important one from where I'm standing.

You couldn't have the other iterations if it hadn't been for Mirage Vol 1, where as the reverse just isn't true.

I wouldn't compare the Mirage Vol 1 books to any other part of the franchise.
I think they're too different on almost every level.

Yes, you could never have anything TMNT related without Mirage. I just wanted to point out that it seems like most of what came afterwards probably isn't as far off as Andrew claims it is.

plastroncafe
04-14-2015, 03:55 PM
Yes, you could never have anything TMNT related without Mirage. I just wanted to point out that it seems like most of what came afterwards probably isn't as far off as Andrew claims it is.

In several cases that's exactly what it is though, "far off." I mean...we've yet to see a 1:1 translation of the Mirage Turtles to the screen, excepting the last few scenes of "Turtles Forever."

The first movie is much more in keeping with the spirit and tone of Volume 1 than anything else that's come out, and even that had some changes.

The Original Toon is Vol 1 Mirage run through a marketing focus group.
And the Archie books are a copy of that focus group...so now two steps beyond.
2k3 gives lipservice to the events of Vol 1, but doesn't maintain its tone.
The Nick toon is TMNT fanboy fiction.

As for Platinum Dunes...

Bay's Turtles : TMNT :: Constantine : Hellblazer.

Jephael
04-14-2015, 03:57 PM
The first movie is much more in keeping with the spirit and tone of Volume 1 than anything else that's come out, and even that had some changes.

The Original Toon is Vol 1 Mirage run through a marketing focus group.
And the Archie books are a copy of that focus group...so now two steps beyond.
2k3 gives lip-service to the events of Vol 1, but doesn't maintain its tone.
The Nick toon is TMNT fanboy fiction.

As for Platinum Dunes...

Bay's Turtles : TMNT :: Constantine : Hellblazer.

What do you consider Next Mutation then?

plastroncafe
04-14-2015, 04:02 PM
What do you consider Next Mutation then?

A cash grab.

Andrew NDB
04-14-2015, 04:19 PM
In several cases that's exactly what it is though, "far off." I mean...we've yet to see a 1:1 translation of the Mirage Turtles to the screen, excepting the last few scenes of "Turtles Forever."

The first movie is much more in keeping with the spirit and tone of Volume 1 than anything else that's come out, and even that had some changes.

The Original Toon is Vol 1 Mirage run through a marketing focus group.
And the Archie books are a copy of that focus group...so now two steps beyond.
2k3 gives lipservice to the events of Vol 1, but doesn't maintain its tone.
The Nick toon is TMNT fanboy fiction.

As for Platinum Dunes...

Bay's Turtles : TMNT :: Constantine : Hellblazer.

All of that sounds about right to me.

neatoman
04-14-2015, 04:49 PM
In several cases that's exactly what it is though, "far off." I mean...we've yet to see a 1:1 translation of the Mirage Turtles to the screen, excepting the last few scenes of "Turtles Forever."

The first movie is much more in keeping with the spirit and tone of Volume 1 than anything else that's come out, and even that had some changes.

The Original Toon is Vol 1 Mirage run through a marketing focus group.
And the Archie books are a copy of that focus group...so now two steps beyond.
2k3 gives lipservice to the events of Vol 1, but doesn't maintain its tone.
The Nick toon is TMNT fanboy fiction.

As for Platinum Dunes...

Bay's Turtles : TMNT :: Constantine : Hellblazer.

Well, change kind of has to happen in any adaptation. For the countless Dracula movies, I can't think of a single one without changes to the book's plot. Things have to be changed for run time, pacing, character development, imagery, target audience, budget etc, not to mention what can happen when the original author's intent clash with the director's vision.
The author of Mary Poppins hated the movie because it had very little to do with how she envisioned the book. Same thing with Stephen King the Shining, King really hates that movie.

As for the Nicktoon basically being too little adaptation, too much fan fiction... Yes that is true but you might say most comics after the 70's are a buch of fanfics, and while it could benefit from a faster pace and more character development, it's not bad.

plastroncafe
04-14-2015, 05:03 PM
That all depends on what we're using for metrics of quality, and even then it's all awfully subjective.

If the metric we're using is the adherence to the Mirage Vol 1 canon...then yeah, it kind of is bad.

But it's actually pretty good on other accounts.

Personally I find the 2k3 series the more frustrating because of how close it comes to translating Mirage to the screen. It's almost like the Uncanny Valley in that I can't stop seeing where things deviate to the point of distraction.

The Nicktoon frustrates me because the creators are better than the product they've been releasing...and that just makes me sad.

Jephael
04-14-2015, 05:46 PM
Personally I find the 2k3 series the more frustrating because of how close it comes to translating Mirage to the screen. It's almost like The Uncanny Valley in that I can't stop seeing where things deviate to the point of distraction.

That's actually what I found enjoyable about the show. I loved how 4Kids adapted the early comics, and even some of the Volume 4 material.

CyberCubed
04-14-2015, 05:51 PM
Personally I find the 2k3 series the more frustrating because of how close it comes to translating Mirage to the screen. It's almost like the Uncanny Valley in that I can't stop seeing where things deviate to the point of distraction.
.

It was rather obvious 2k3 was going to deviate from the Mirage comics from day 1, so I don't see why this is an issue. You didn't expect them to kill off Shredder for good in the first episode, did you?

The only way I can see the Mirage comics getting a 1:1 adaption is if they make direct-to-DVD animated PG13 movies with all red bandanas following the Mirage storyline to a T. But such a market for that is so small it probably won't ever happen.

Prowler
04-14-2015, 05:59 PM
It was rather obvious 2k3 was going to deviate from the Mirage comics from day 1, so I don't see why this is an issue. You didn't expect them to kill off Shredder for good in the first episode, did you?

The only way I can see the Mirage comics getting a 1:1 adaption is if they make direct-to-DVD animated PG13 movies with all red bandanas following the Mirage storyline to a T. But such a market for that is so small it probably won't ever happen.
I think the only easy for that to happen would be for a japanese studio to take on the TMNT franchise.

plastroncafe
04-14-2015, 07:38 PM
It was rather obvious 2k3 was going to deviate from the Mirage comics from day 1, so I don't see why this is an issue. You didn't expect them to kill off Shredder for good in the first episode, did you?


Your commentary has absolutely nothing to do with the quoted text.

TurtleFan2012
04-14-2015, 07:59 PM
my money was at first on some kind of cyborg rather than an alien, but I did start to think that 5 seconds later.

I too thought he was a robot. Dr. Doom uses robot duplicates to fool his enemies. I thought Shredder was doing the same thing.

Speaking of Dr. Doom, why Ch'rell didn't add lasers, missiles, jet power shoes to his suit after the utrom twist.

plastroncafe
04-14-2015, 08:01 PM
I remember being slightly shocked when Leo took Shredder's head, but immediately remembered that Raph stabs a guy in the chest in the OT...and then finds out the Foot Soldiers are robots.

Two call-backs, no waiting.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-14-2015, 08:35 PM
It was rather obvious 2k3 was going to deviate from the Mirage comics from day 1, so I don't see why this is an issue. You didn't expect them to kill off Shredder for good in the first episode, did you?

The only way I can see the Mirage comics getting a 1:1 adaption is if they make direct-to-DVD animated PG13 movies with all red bandanas following the Mirage storyline to a T. But such a market for that is so small it probably won't ever happen.

I'd love that... except for the all-red bandannas. Ugh. :tlol:

Jephael
04-14-2015, 09:20 PM
I'd love that... except for the all-red bandannas. Ugh. :tlol:

When all else fails...
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/54889422.jpg

Xav
04-15-2015, 12:36 AM
The first movie is much more in keeping with the spirit and tone of Volume 1 than anything else that's come out, and even that had some changes.

The Original Toon is Vol 1 Mirage run through a marketing focus group.
And the Archie books are a copy of that focus group...so now two steps beyond.
2k3 gives lipservice to the events of Vol 1, but doesn't maintain its tone.
The Nick toon is TMNT fanboy fiction.

As for Platinum Dunes...

Bay's Turtles : TMNT :: Constantine : Hellblazer.What would you call IDW then?

Andrew NDB
04-15-2015, 01:45 AM
It's not similar to the rest of the franchise, the rest of the franchise is similar to it.

Oh, why aren't we married? :)

Candy Kappa
04-15-2015, 02:32 AM
Well, change kind of has to happen in any adaptation. For the countless Dracula movies, I can't think of a single one without changes to the book's plot. Things have to be changed for run time, pacing, character development, imagery, target audience, budget etc, not to mention what can happen when the original author's intent clash with the director's vision.

If only we could get a book accurate Dracula movie. Coppola's "Bram Stoker's Dracula" is a big lie, and quite possibly is the one Dracula movie I loathe the most.

Cryomancer
04-15-2015, 02:44 AM
I think TMNT comic fans would get along with Getter Robo fans. Both have long, excellent original comic runs and multiple animation projects that vary from "kinda close, I guess" to "totally a different thing altogether". And neither has ever or will probably ever get a legit attempt at doing a "the source material adapted to moving pictures as close as we can" sort of take.

2k3 or the first TMNT movie were arguably as close to Mirage as TMNT is likely to ever be adapted. And they were good, and sometimes bad, but they sure as **** were not Mirage.

On topic, I didn't see the show until after it was over, so I knew about the utrom thing already. I think Ch'rell was an interesting take, appropriate to the overall tone of the series, and I imagine either he was decided to be an utrom specifically so they COULD decapitate him, or they realized him being one allowed to get a decent action scene past standards and practices for a change. Thus, I like the hell out of that part. I think the turtles fighting Ch'rell were some of the best scenes in the show in generally, really. Unfortunate that they have to have an excuse like robot suits to actually have extended battles with actual blows being dealt, but it was ultimately a kid's show so I think they did the best they could with that and the decapitation is one of it's pinnacles. Looking at it real quick on youtube though, it sucks that Leonardo had to use the magic sword thing to do it. But it's cool that Ch'rell picked up Leonardo's swords to fight him with.

neatoman
04-15-2015, 04:39 AM
What would you call IDW then?

A loose remake?

ImmaAxolotl
04-15-2015, 06:49 AM
When I first saw it when I was little, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Walking away with his head? Even cooler! Now when I watch it I can't believe this got on television. If I ever have kids I'm stilling letting them see this scene, though.

You know, this actually reminds me of that time in the Legend of Korra when Tarlok tried bloodbending Amon and the latter resisted it. My thought was, "Woah! Is he an Utrom in a bodysuit as well? Cool beans!" I know that sounds silly, but it's what I thought at the time.

neatoman
04-15-2015, 08:40 AM
If only we could get a book accurate Dracula movie. Coppola's "Bram Stoker's Dracula" is a big lie, and quite possibly is the one Dracula movie I loathe the most.

Yeah my old English teacher hated that movie too. It should probably have been called "Coppola's Dracula instead", given the changes.

Let's see, the major changes I can think of are: A backstory for Dracula, scenes from Dracula's perspective and the idea that Mina has genuine affection for Dracula which gets into the ending. That's about right, correct?

DarkLightDragon
04-15-2015, 09:45 AM
Yeah my old English teacher hated that movie too. It should probably have been called "Coppola's Dracula instead", given the changes.

Let's see, the major changes I can think of are: A backstory for Dracula, scenes from Dracula's perspective and the idea that Mina has genuine affection for Dracula which gets into the ending. That's about right, correct?

I didn't really like that version either. It's one of those "everyone says it's good but I personally hate it" movies. And we had to watch it after reading the novel for class. One of those 'an obviously evil villain who didn't need a tragic backstory to justify said evil' which I detest immensely. Not to mention the idea of Mina being a reincarnation of his dead wife not only seemed forced and unnecessarily dramatic, it totally cheapens what relationship she's meant to have with Jonathan by having her return his feelings. Like who cares about her husband who went through literal hell because of this guy and having her fall in love with said guy because "she looks like his wife duh." Gimme a break.

*Suddenly remembers what topic this is*

Well... This is awkward. Uh..carry on.

*Leaves*

plastroncafe
04-15-2015, 11:04 AM
What would you call IDW then?

A pastiche or collage.

Oh, why aren't we married? :)

We both know I would break you.
;)

Jephael
04-15-2015, 11:49 AM
Oh, why aren't we married? :)
We both know I would break you.
;)

On some messed up level, I kinda want to see that happen.

Andrew NDB
04-15-2015, 11:54 AM
Yeah my old English teacher hated that movie too. It should probably have been called "Coppola's Dracula instead", given the changes.

Let's see, the major changes I can think of are: A backstory for Dracula,

There's a couple of paragraphs in the Dracula novel that does talk in vague terms about his life as Vlad the Impaler. His fighting the Turks, crossing the Danube, and being a brilliant tactician in battle.

neatoman
04-15-2015, 12:07 PM
There's a couple of paragraphs in the Dracula novel that does talk in vague terms about his life as Vlad the Impaler. His fighting the Turks, crossing the Danube, and being a brilliant tactician in battle.

But there's no reason given why he became a vampire, that's what I meant by that.

The whole "I reject God for letting my wife die, now I will impale a statue and drink the blood oozing from it!" thing is not in the book.

Andrew NDB
04-15-2015, 12:59 PM
But there's no reason given why he became a vampire, that's what I meant by that.

The whole "I reject God for letting my wife die, now I will impale a statue and drink the blood oozing from it!" thing is not in the book.

Oh, that. Yeah, there's nothing about that at all, even remotely.

shuriken
04-15-2015, 03:17 PM
We both know I would break you.
;)

Is it weird that I read that in Tom Hardy-Bane voice? Cuz I did.
When I saw it, my 14 year old self thought it was really cool that they were gonna off the Shredder like in Return to New York Part 3 of the Mirage run(I had recently read a few of the original mirage books after scourging the internet for the past year or so, totally blew my mind and brought me back into the TMNT, after the dissapoinment that is Next Mutation). Then He picked up his head and thought maybe he was some tengu demon er something.

plastroncafe
04-15-2015, 03:30 PM
Is it weird that I read that in Tom Hardy-Bane voice? Cuz I did.


Anyone who has met me in person knows that I sound exactly like Bane.
:D

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-15-2015, 03:36 PM
Anyone who has met me in person knows that I sound exactly like Bane.
:D

Now I wanna meet you! :tlol:

shuriken
04-15-2015, 03:59 PM
Andrew and PlastronCafe's first (and last) interaction.
8IfTwS7dGz0

Jephael
04-15-2015, 07:23 PM
Anyone who has met me in person knows that I sound exactly like Bane.
:D

Been meaning to bring this up on the podcast, but I never had to balls to say it... I kinda had a crush on you after hearing your Supergirl voice on Hal & Kyle.

Powder
04-15-2015, 07:49 PM
My reaction to Shredder's "beheading":
http://i59.tinypic.com/2ytnzi9.gif

My reaction to some of this thread:
http://i59.tinypic.com/e0hh8n.gif

Jephael
04-15-2015, 07:52 PM
My reaction to some of this thread:
http://i59.tinypic.com/e0hh8n.gif

Funny, that's how I react to 98% of this forum.

Leo656
04-16-2015, 01:00 AM
Maaaan now I wanna know what everyone sounds like. Especially the chicks.

I always sound kinda stuffy, personally.

shuriken
04-16-2015, 02:17 AM
Sounds like a perfect idea for a thread...Elsewhere.