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View Full Version : Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep18: "The Deadly Venom"


Machias Banshee
05-16-2015, 10:05 PM
So, all that character development in Karai learning Splinter was her father and realizing Shredder was an evil SOB. Is that all kaput now?

Baxter conveniently creates a mind control serum (which we briefly saw tested on Raph - and failed), and they use it on Karai to get her under their control again. Leo broke the control on Raph by... pissing him off (what?). What will it take to get Karai out of the trance? Is he gonna have to kiss her?

From what the spoiler pics have seen of Karai's kiss... Leo may not want to take that option. But it'll create some controversy to discuss.

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 05:04 AM
I really hope this leads to a good episode for this four episode period. I wasn't a fan of the first two and enjoyed Meet Mondo Gecko. I just hope this episode leads to strong developments of a personal storyline.

I just don't like Karai has been utilized as a plot device for the feuds between Shredder VS. Splinter and against Leonardo more than being an actual character. It's just becoming boring that nothing has been done to her besides getting mutated. It has promise that has failed potential for the time being. Hoping this is the episode that breaks that sense to close out the new episode marathon for the time being.

Aaronardo
05-17-2015, 07:42 AM
This four-episode deal has been a major groan for me. Probably the biggest quality hiccup this show has had so far imo. I liked the Muckman episode, but Clash of the Mutanimals was awful and Meet Mondo Gecko was a whole episode dedicated to selling toys. And we all know how good those are.
Long story short: if this episode (that promises to get back to the storyline, but then again, Clash sort of did as well) isn't any good, I'll be done with this series.

saintsaucey
05-17-2015, 08:02 AM
This four-episode deal has been a major groan for me. Probably the biggest quality hiccup this show has had so far imo. I liked the Muckman episode, but Clash of the Mutanimals was awful and Meet Mondo Gecko was a whole episode dedicated to selling toys. And we all know how good those are.
Long story short: if this episode (that promises to get back to the storyline, but then again, Clash sort of did as well) isn't any good, I'll be done with this series.

How was meet mondo gecoo dedicated to selling toys. Other than one new figure. But hell isn't that potentially every episode.

Aaronardo
05-17-2015, 08:04 AM
How was meet mondo gecoo dedicated to selling toys. Other than one new figure. But hell isn't that potentially every episode.

Basically all of Shredder's henchmen were there... and for what reason? What's the point of them being there, not to mention they're all completely out of character. Just that whole idea's a little screwy to me. Not to mention that the episode on its own was just crap (which has nothing to do with selling toys, just a reason I don't like the episode as a whole).

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 08:09 AM
Basically all of Shredder's henchmen were there... and for what reason? What's the point of them being there, not to mention they're all completely out of character. Just that whole idea's a little screwy to me. Not to mention that the episode on its own was just crap (which has nothing to do with selling toys, just a reason I don't like the episode as a whole).

It doesn't make sense on the inclusions of the mutants at all besides showing "Hey everyone, miss us? We're back and still alive." The Foot I understand as they want to see if Xever can finally prove himself, but a big brawl should have occurred. Felt like a screwy end to the racing portion.

Otherwise, I'm kinda the inverse of the Noxious Avenger and this episode. I sort of liked the latter episode while not entirely a big fan of the former.

Also, 50 minutes til showtime.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 08:28 AM
Basically all of Shredder's henchmen were there... and for what reason? What's the point of them being there, not to mention they're all completely out of character. Just that whole idea's a little screwy to me. Not to mention that the episode on its own was just crap (which has nothing to do with selling toys, just a reason I don't like the episode as a whole).

Why do you think it's crap, I thought the episode was alot of fun and didn't mind seeing the villians on their down time. But that's just me to each his own.

Luckyday
05-17-2015, 08:29 AM
None of the four episode hasn't been rage inducing for me.

Casey vs the Underworld was okay. Hun as a character doesn't have a lot of things going on for him. He's pretty much "Here this new guy and look how cool and awesome he is! He awesome, right? Right?". As a fighter, he will make some fights interesting but outside of that, he feels like a generic TigerClaw 2.0. Them referencing and remembering that a invasion had happened was good because it was my ultimatum for me to stick by this show. This show can't just forget that an invasion had happened but it didn't so no major complaints.

Muckman episode was such a nice surprise. Hardly any legit problems and almost felt like a season 1 episode.

Clash of the Mutanimals while not being the beginning of the Dark Raph character arc that I really wanted, it wasn't a bad episode.

Mondo Gecko started lackluster and predictable but that death race turn it around it for me. My only complaint is that I wish the entire episode was death race.

Normally last episode of the set is usually the one that drops the ball. I am hyped but my real concern is Karai. I really really hope that this mind control won't last beyond a episode and becomes the norm for a long while.
The turtles already knows how fight the mind control serum but with it being perfected they probably have find a new way to beat it.

I read somewhere that they called her "Kiba" to help break the control so I'm hoping that might mean the writers are not going keep this mind control aspect for the rest of series as something to keep them fighting over.

NinjaPug
05-17-2015, 08:32 AM
How about taking the discussions about past episodes to those threads?

cartooncrazy4
05-17-2015, 08:35 AM
Why do you think it's crap, I thought the episode was alot of fun and didn't mind seeing the villians on their down time. But that's just me to each his own.
Same here I've enjoyed all the episodes so far but that's just me

Aaronardo
05-17-2015, 08:40 AM
Why do you think it's crap, I thought the episode was alot of fun and didn't mind seeing the villians on their down time. But that's just me to each his own.

Well, I mean, don't you think it's a little silly imagining Shredder's henchmen spending some skateboarding race in their downtime? That seems off to me. I mean, if Shredder had come barging in and screamed "WHAT IS GOING ON IN HERE?!" then that'd be something else, but as it is, it's just... off.

Drose18
05-17-2015, 08:42 AM
Well, I mean, don't you think it's a little silly imagining Shredder's henchmen spending some skateboarding race in their downtime? That seems off to me. I mean, if Shredder had come barging in and screamed "WHAT IS GOING ON IN HERE?!" then that'd be something else, but as it is, it's just... off.

I 100% agree with everything youve said this show has gone to **** lets hope this new episode is good.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 08:46 AM
Live stream is down again :cry: so I won't able to watch the new episode until it's up on Anime flavor later so I have to avoid spoilers for about 2 hours. Luckily I got Man Utd vs Arsenal to keep me occupied but I just hope Arsenal will win :D

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 09:00 AM
Episode starts NOW!!!

kelligrafie
05-17-2015, 09:04 AM
Live stream is down again :cry: so I won't able to watch the new episode until it's up on Anime flavor later so I have to avoid spoilers for about 2 hours. Luckily I got Man Utd vs Arsenal to keep me occupied but I just hope Arsenal will win :D
Keep an eye on tumblr, sometimes an alternative stream comes up way before it appears on Anime Flavor.

I hate football so I'll be watching the Dream Beavers episode to keep myself entertained.

TurFlytle
05-17-2015, 09:06 AM
Wait, how?

TurFlytle
05-17-2015, 09:12 AM
I felt like it would've been a suprise if it wasn't for the leak.:-(

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 09:12 AM
Wait, how?

The episode already beginning?

TurFlytle
05-17-2015, 09:14 AM
The episode already beginning?

yes. it is.

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 09:15 AM
yes. it is.

Guess cause time was flying, I guess.

xenopokemon
05-17-2015, 09:16 AM
That kiss of death...
Casari?

TurFlytle
05-17-2015, 09:20 AM
Please end in a good way

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 09:20 AM
:teek:

Karai has proven to be dangerous already, sheesh. This is insane, well worth it so far.

yellowmario27
05-17-2015, 09:30 AM
So Leo's a healer now

PangolinFeets
05-17-2015, 09:31 AM
Leo OP. Nerf plz.

TurFlytle
05-17-2015, 09:31 AM
The ending sucked a little, but nice development.

snake
05-17-2015, 09:32 AM
This was damn good. Continuity nods all over the place. I'd have to say it felt like a season 1 episode.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 09:33 AM
I loved this episode , nice to see a somewhat human Karai back.

Jephael
05-17-2015, 09:38 AM
I wonder what Baxter did to stabilize Karai, and I'm hoping we'll see Splinter be the one to snap her out of the mind control.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 09:39 AM
This was damn good. Continuity nods all over the place. I'd have to say it felt like a season 1 episode.

I loved the part where Mikey listed all the things that bit him.

PangolinFeets
05-17-2015, 09:40 AM
This was a good one though. I'm still so sick of stupid snake Karai, but there were a lot of cool aspects to this episode. I liked Splinter and Leo sparring in the beginning.

snake
05-17-2015, 09:44 AM
I loved the part where Mikey listed all the things that bit him.

Yeah, that was a fun callback.

And I just remembered Squirrelanoids are still a thing.

IndigoErth
05-17-2015, 09:45 AM
Was ok. Interesting, kinda different. (Guess all this is why Karai has remain reflected in Shredder's mask in the opening.) Right from the start of it, kinda obvious we're going the mystic magic route, but I thought it might come down to Splinter to save whoever was affected.

Think the main dower for me is knowing I'm going to get online expecting the anti-Leo brigade :(... because they really kinda did go way too fast on him learning that skill or whatnot. :ohwell:

Although I guess we're letting up on a bit on the all powerful April thing.

Pineapple head... wtf. lol (Get your references out of the Turtles, Spongebob.)

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 09:45 AM
I'll probably analyze this more later, but for now I can say it was a good episode, just wish the ending to fighting Karai had a little more meaning.

yellowmario27
05-17-2015, 09:45 AM
Do you think Karai control snakes, or does she just have a few that follow her around/listen to her?

Majcvd49
05-17-2015, 09:45 AM
Can anyone describe what happened with April in the episode? Been missing her lately with her limited screen time.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 09:45 AM
Yeah, that was a fun callback.

And I just remembered Squirrelanoids are still a thing.

The best call back was probably the fact that Splinter is still recovering from Slash hitting him. I wasn't expecting that.

yellowmario27
05-17-2015, 09:46 AM
Can anyone describe what happened with April in the episode? Been missing her lately with her limited screen time.

At first we see her and Casey walking out of a movie together. Casey drops her off at home. She has a nightmare about being bitten by snakes, and when she wakes up she actually does getting bitten.
Her dad then takes her to the turtles lair, where she remains in a semi-comatose state till the end up the episode

snake
05-17-2015, 09:47 AM
The best call back was probably the fact that Splinter is still recovering from Slash hitting him. I wasn't expecting that.

Oh that too. I honestly forgot that happened, and the one time I DON'T expect them to bring something up, they actually do.

pannoni1
05-17-2015, 09:47 AM
Mike had a pretty clever disguise at the start, but that was about as silly as it got, and Raph sure knew the importance that would crucial in saving everyone at the end. This brings Karai full circle being still wanted for Splinter yet clearly something that people like Casey shouldn't flirt on, with just some dragon powers in addition. The concept involving April fainting and needed a quick antidote isn't original in the multiverse (see OT's Enter The Fly), but the clever Ninja exercise at the end after a decent confrontation with the Foot/Karai felt was a good way to end the May Sweeps.

Show Grade: 8/10

ObiWanFan4life
05-17-2015, 10:04 AM
So, Leo is now one bullet-dodging scene away from becoming Neo :D. But overall, a good episode.

Foombamaroom
05-17-2015, 10:05 AM
I wasn't too happy with where this episode was placed. The Karai arc has been spread out all through season 3, and it just feels weird to have it right now and know that the next episode will have nothing to do with her. It felt like it was just to say, "Hey, Karai's still a character."

Luckyday
05-17-2015, 10:35 AM
I wasn't too happy with where this episode was placed. The Karai arc has been spread out all through season 3, and it just feels weird to have it right now and know that the next episode will have nothing to do with her. It felt like it was just to say, "Hey, Karai's still a character."

^More like a hollow version of said character.
This entire episode felt like the writers were trying to go back to the good old days when Karai was scheming to destroy the turtles once and for all in season 1 and early season 2.

sigh. Good thing I bought some Jack Daniel's. http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png

IndigoErth
05-17-2015, 10:54 AM
TMNT... officially a drinking game. :trazz:

(Youngsters, uh.. just break out a juice box.)

TigerClaw
05-17-2015, 10:56 AM
That's odd, My Tivo did not record this episode, Will have to watch it elsewhere.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 11:09 AM
OH MY GOD!!!!!WOW!!!!! I loved this episode, it was awesome, emotional, scary and so Intense, I was at the edge of my seat and shouting out thoughout the episode and I got so much feels from it. I did not expect all the turtles and April to be poisoned by Karai. Leo was such a badass in this episode.

Baxter trying again with the mind control worms, he must of perfected the mind serum.
OMG!!!! the worm went into her ear!!!!! :o
Loved the score during Leo and Splinter sparing.
Splinter still not 100% from being attacked by Slash.
I laughed so much at Mikey wearing that Mask :lol:
Wow!!! Splinter has healing powers and Leo want's to learn how to use it.
April having a bad dream and wakes up with snakes in her bed, WTF!!!!!
OMG!!! she's been bitten.
I liked the fight between Casey and Karai, pretty cool. That kiss, sadly got leaked early.
OMG!!! Kirby carrying April to the lair asking the turtles for help, feels!!!!
OMG!!! feels!!!!, April connected to machines and she's getting worse and Donnie can't find a anti venom.
Kirby saying he should of taken to the hospital, so you need to explain to the doctor that April was bitten by a girl who was mutated into a snake then, idiot.
Raph and Mikey find Casey and Mikey has to try suck the venom out, near Casey's crotch!!!!! WTF!!!!
OMG!!!! Snakes in the turtle van!!!! OMG!!! Mikey get's bit, NNNOOO!!!!
Raph get's bit too and the van crashes.
Karai captures them and lures Leo and Donnie there too.
So the venom can be absorbed into the skin too, pretty clever.
WTF!!! Donnie has a pinapple for a head, Spongebob reference!!!!
Splinter using the healing power to help April, to make her stable, OMG!!! that was an intense moment, I thought she was going to flat line then.
Leo using the healing power to help him get bit stronger but he get's bitten twice!!!!
I like that Splinter and Leo are both doing the healing at the same time, pretty cool.
April is cured.
Leo is becoming more badass everytime, he's just awesome in this episode.
Leo vs Karai was great.
Splinter and Leo healing the other 3 turtles and Casey, feels!!!
Poor Leo wanted to help Karai become free from the mind control.
Bit of the sad ending but proves the mind control story isn't over yet.

Also WTF is this!!!!!

https://40.media.tumblr.com/117a983b10f85026ff9caba9df57bbaa/tumblr_noi7hyS9rZ1u6i34so1_540.jpg

Papenbrook
05-17-2015, 11:33 AM
:x This episode was complete and utter booty. I don't think I can watch the show anymore.

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 11:35 AM
Okay, I'm watching right now and I'm only 2 minutes in... But how did Stockman turn Karai human?! :blanksta:
And right after that worm goes in she's suddenly a mutant all over again? What the...

kelligrafie
05-17-2015, 11:42 AM
This episode was a tad meh for me and I was really looking forward to having Karai back with us. Again I think the action/fight scenes just about saved it.

Is it just me or did the episode seem to be over quicker than usual?

And I'm forever done with Kirby. He's such an irritating ninny. :roll:

Props to the writer for the continuity though. Someone obviously did his research.

Foombamaroom
05-17-2015, 11:56 AM
The fact that the Turtles are going to find Renet next episode rather than go after Karai bothers me, considering this now seems like a more immediate threat. Also, wouldn't Karai know the lair of the Turtles?

I dunno. Ciro said Karai's arc would be more towards the second half of the season, but then again, he said Mutagen Man would have a big part in season 2. The breaks are killing the show. However, the June arc from season 2 (Wrath of Tiger Claw, Kuro Kabuto, Plan 10, Vengeance is Mine) was the best arc out of season 2, so let's hope they have some more good episodes.

In all honesty, though, I feel like they need to take a break from adding characters. I hope to god Renet's the last new character of this season.

Bauer536
05-17-2015, 12:04 PM
I haven't watched the episode yet, but I'm surprised the show is going in this direction. I feel like most of the TV shows I've watched suffer from some kind of fatigue.

I hope Ciro will come back, because I'm curious as to why he said things like Mutagen Man having a big role in Season 2. Something in me tells me that he lied to get us watching, or Nickelodeon vetoed the idea just before it went out.

Some of this I blame on Nick, because they really don't seem to care about structure. I love this show, but it's starting to get disorganized. These excuses about showing episodes that aren't serialized so not to confuse kids is ridiculous. The show doesn't need to be heavily serialized, but it still needs to be in perfect order so things fall into place. Going in one episode to have Karai becoming a threat, then to the time travel one, is kind of jarring. The episodes may not be in the correct order. Certain times, the writers get things together. Continuity is hard for them, so moments when they get something right, I'm proud. When they don't, I'm annoyed.

To Mukouno: Karai is human because she can shape-shift into one, and transform back to the serpent.

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 12:14 PM
To Mukouno: Karai is human because she can shape-shift into one, and transform back to the serpent.

I know, but that's not what I meant. Right at the beginning, Baxter outright says that he turned her human again. And when we see Karai she's back to her senses, has her normal human eyes and normal teeth, no fangs, indicating that she really is completely human... But when she shape-shifted in previous episodes she had those green snake eyes and fangs. Just like in the rest of the episode.
But when this worm goes in she's suddenly back to her mutant-self...

So... yeah, I still don't get it.

Coola Yagami
05-17-2015, 12:16 PM
So um.... were they trying to make another love triangle/rectangle/hexago/whatever with Casey and Karai? Even before she attacked him, he was all over her. Then of all the ways to poison him, she distinctively chose to kiss him? Sure, he was gonna die anyways but um...?

I don't mind the kiss all that much, it was a method of attack in this case, but what bugged me was how heavily Casey was hitting on her. What would have happened if she wasn't evil and just wanted to hang with him that night? Perhaps Casey is more interested in someone more likely to put out than the goody-goody tease April?

snake
05-17-2015, 12:20 PM
:x This episode was complete and utter booty. I don't think I can watch the show anymore.

What was so bad about it? I thought it was amazing.

Coola Yagami
05-17-2015, 12:25 PM
Let's not get too hasty. For all we know the episode could start with them trying to find Karai but they run into Renet instead.

IndigoErth
05-17-2015, 12:25 PM
The fact that the Turtles are going to find Renet next episode rather than go after Karai bothers me, considering this now seems like a more immediate threat.
Hadn't heard or read anything about what's coming next, wasn't expecting Renet this soon. o.O I wish they at least somehow tie it in with Karai. (Like going back in time to try to prevent Shredder from taking her as an infant or something.)

They really have gotten into a habit of making it feel like we're jumping around to different chapters rather than 'reading' straight through.

Meliwen
05-17-2015, 12:34 PM
I thought Casey did almost a little too well when fighting against Karai, even though the fight overall was neat.

Good episode, and I liked how high the stakes were and how the show treated it as such. It was great how they remembered Splinter's injury, I was really not expecting that, although I was half expecting Karai to fight him and use that to her advantage. And the new healing thing is pretty cool. I liked Kirby's insistence to get April to a hospital when Splinter started talking about his ninja magic. :lol:

I'm torn between being really happy about Leo's new ability and how awesome he was in this episode (I thought this was a great episode for his character growth), and getting a bit annoyed at how Leo needs to be the hero again, because it feels like he gets that vibe more than the other three turtles. And that's what put me off his character in 2k3, so I hope the rest of the show doesn't follow that same route.

This might be one of my new top fave Leo episodes. I really liked how he beat the poison and then Karai. :tcool:

Autbot_Benz
05-17-2015, 12:35 PM
:x This episode was complete and utter booty. I don't think I can watch the show anymore.

It was a good episode

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 12:43 PM
IGN review up

8.4 :x

It deserved more than that.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/05/17/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-deadly-venom-review

neatoman
05-17-2015, 12:46 PM
Are we missing an episode here? When and how did Baxter improve Karai's condition? It seems like a big plot point but episode treats it like nothing. I'm also not really sure how Karai's new powers work, does she create snakes or turn into multiple snakes? I'm not really sure if I like Leo's new healing powers, he figured out how to use them a little too quickly seeing how we learned about them this episode, not to mention the fact that we'll probably either get moments where just forgets he has them or Donnie's medical skills are rendered obsolete.

I do like the little moments with April and Casey, Casey and Karai, Splinter's healing session, Kirby's "disapproving daddy" look and Leo learning new skills (despite the fact that think it should have been touched upon in a previous episode and worries about future episodes). I liked the episode, but I really feel like something is missing...

RedOnYellow
05-17-2015, 12:54 PM
Are we missing an episode here? When and how did Baxter improve Karai's condition? It seems like a big plot point but episode treats it like nothing. I'm also not really sure how Karai's new powers work, does she create snakes or turn into multiple snakes? I'm not really sure if I like Leo's new healing powers, he figured out how to use them a little too quickly seeing how we learned about them this episode, not to mention the fact that we'll probably either get moments where just forgets he has them or Donnie's medical skills are rendered obsolete.

I do like the little moments with April and Casey, Casey and Karai, Splinter's healing session, Kirby's "disapproving daddy" look and Leo learning new skills (despite the fact that think it should have been touched upon in a previous episode and worries about future episodes). I liked the episode, but I really feel like something is missing...

This bothered me too. They made such a big deal about Karai's mutation then suddenly Baxter has her turned back into a human in-between episodes? We spent an entire half a season going over this arc and then they write it off out of nowhere.

And then she gets brain slug and is suddenly a mutant again? Also, I really didn't like how she used those hand-snake things and not her full mutant form. Like why go half-way? Just have her shift between human and mutant form instead of using those weird snake hands.

I mean the episode was fun and exciting and had some nice action, but as it fits into the overall plot I just feel like they invalidated a good portion of their story. Why are we supposed to care what happens to Karai when her condition can change at any moment? Why even have mutated her in the first place if they were just going to mind control her and wipe the mutation away in-between episodes?

It's confusing. It feels like the show has no director, like the writers are just told to do whatever they want.

Haalix
05-17-2015, 12:55 PM
This was an awesome episode honestly, but they could've done so much better! Which is probably why I'm so dissapointed atm.

I was expecting too much (again)

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 12:58 PM
Finally somebody else addresses this odd Karai-is-suddenly-human-but-then-not-really-thing besides me...

Really... weird episode. I'll watch it again and write my review afterwards.

Aaronardo
05-17-2015, 12:58 PM
Fortunately, I won't have to give up on this show. Woot!
Okay, this is what I'm talking about. This show needs more episodes like this. To me, it felt a lot like The Wrath of Tiger Claw (which is one of my favs of the show) in the sense that a villain thought long-gone was back and hunting for prey.
Also I did like that whole "healing" thing. Unlike Clash of the Mutanimals, here, the way Leo defeated Karai was built up from the beginning of the episode to the end. Not to mention how just plain badass that scene was.
Overall: 9/10 (the very end could've been better, but it was better than some of the more recent endings of this show)

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 12:59 PM
Double-Post, sorry. No idea what happened here.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 01:02 PM
Karai isn't human, she is still a mutant. You can see that her skin is scally and still has the green eyes also her arms changed to snakes and can control snakes. You see her transform from snake to human in other episodes, like Serpent Hunt. The only thing thats changed is her mind, it looks like Baxter fixed her mutation that it wouldn't effect her mind, how I don't know but I'm guessing this will possible find out later.

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 01:16 PM
Karai isn't human, she is still a mutant. You can see that her skin is scally and still has the green eyes also her arms changed to snakes and can control snakes. You see her transform from snake to human in other episodes, like Serpent Hunt. The only thing thats changed is her mind, it looks like Baxter fixed her mutation that it wouldn't effect her mind, how I don't know but I'm guessing this will possible find out later.

*Sigh* Please watch the first minute again. Baxter outright says he turned Karai human again. She has normal eyes, normal teeth, normal skin. It's only after that worm went inside her that she's back to her semi-human form.

Jephael
05-17-2015, 01:28 PM
Kirby's "disapproving daddy" look and Leo learning new skills

I'm hoping they touch on that a little more later in the season, like have him become more of an overbearing helicopter parent.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 01:29 PM
*Sigh* Please watch the first minute again. Baxter outright says he turned Karai human again. She has normal eyes, normal teeth, normal skin. It's only after that worm went inside her that she's back to her semi-human form.

I have, I watched it 3 times now. Baxter probably meant that her human form can control her snake form because before, it was her snake form controlling her human form so she was losing her mind.

She wasn't using her snake abilities that's why she looked normal at the start of the episode. The worm had nothing to do with her changing back to a snake so even if he didn't put the worm into her she will still have her snake abilities.

TurtleTitan97
05-17-2015, 01:30 PM
:x This episode was complete and utter booty.

....Did you seriously just say that??

Anyway, I thought the episode was pretty neat overall. Like the callbacks to previous episodes, and that Leo is apparently a healer now.

nellyp
05-17-2015, 01:31 PM
This episode did nothing to help my fear of snakes and being poisoned. I would have preferred she be completely cured of her mutation and put under mind control and attacked with her deadly ninja skills. How is that retro mutagen coming Donatello?

I liked the nods to the other episodes though. Kinda weird that Mikey kept that stuffed Iguana all this time.

neatoman
05-17-2015, 01:34 PM
Karai isn't human, she is still a mutant. You can see that her skin is scally and still has the green eyes also her arms changed to snakes and can control snakes. You see her transform from snake to human in other episodes, like Serpent Hunt. The only thing thats changed is her mind, it looks like Baxter fixed her mutation that it wouldn't effect her mind, how I don't know but I'm guessing this will possible find out later.

Well duh, obviously she's still a mutant and all Baxter did was fix her mind. But the fact that we never saw him do it, the fact that we don't even know how he did it, is really bizarre when when he's (arguably) been working on it since she mutated.

It's especially weird since previous episodes hinted that he simply wouldn't be able to do it, but surprise suprise, he did find a partial solution off screen! It would be nice if we find out later how he did it, but it would have worked better if it was explained before this episode.

JH24
05-17-2015, 01:42 PM
This episode was disappointing. I genuinely enjoyed the three episodes before. But this one...I just couldn't get into it. Karai can be human again and Leo learns a healing technique in one episode? It felt just...It felt too dramatic, as if the writers were trying too hard. At least they could have started this healing a few episodes earlier, not just within the same one.


It's been awhile I didn't like an episode.

Fang Wolf
05-17-2015, 01:46 PM
This one was good Ep. :) :tsmile:

victory_angel
05-17-2015, 01:51 PM
The fact that the Turtles are going to find Renet next episode rather than go after Karai bothers me, considering this now seems like a more immediate threat. Also, wouldn't Karai know the lair of the Turtles?

I dunno. Ciro said Karai's arc would be more towards the second half of the season, but then again, he said Mutagen Man would have a big part in season 2. The breaks are killing the show. However, the June arc from season 2 (Wrath of Tiger Claw, Kuro Kabuto, Plan 10, Vengeance is Mine) was the best arc out of season 2, so let's hope they have some more good episodes.

In all honesty, though, I feel like they need to take a break from adding characters. I hope to god Renet's the last new character of this season.

The next episode is actually episode 20 so they are just using it as a buffer episode after the intensity of this one

Aska_Badoura
05-17-2015, 01:51 PM
What was with glary-glare Kirby when Casey was walking April home? I gather he doesn't like him... wow.

I hadn't seen any spoilers. That kiss... I was trying to pick my jaw up for five minutes... o.0 :lol: Kind of didn't expect to see anything like that in this sort of show, for this demographic anyway.

Raph's into the whole fantasy barbarian pin-up thing, isn't he? Between the posters in his room, and the cel phone pic.. interesting. Hee.

I don't understand either, why she transitioned from completely human to semi-human mutant again after she received the worm. I decided I just wasn't supposed to ask that. :P

victory_angel
05-17-2015, 02:03 PM
What was with glary-glare Kirby when Casey was walking April home? I gather he doesn't like him... wow.



He's a protective dad. He's like any overly protective father who doesn't think just any guy is worthy of his daughter. And of course a he knows a guy like Casey has obvious motives into getting in his daughters pants and is more then likely a bad influence.

And then we have Kirby venting at a rather contrite Donnie who is the just as stressed as Kirby though calmer in comparison hence why Leo is telling both of them to calm down.

....Did you seriously just say that??

Anyway, I thought the episode was pretty neat overall. Like the callbacks to previous episodes, and that Leo is apparently a healer now.

At the very least a spiritual healer.

neatoman
05-17-2015, 02:09 PM
He's a protective dad. He's like any overly protective father who doesn't think just any guy is worthy of his daughter. And of course a he knows a guy like Casey has obvious motives into getting in his daughters pants and is more then likely a bad influence.

And then we have Kirby venting at a rather contrite Donnie who is the just as stressed as Kirby though calmer in comparison hence why Leo is telling both of them to calm down.



At the very least a spiritual healer.

And now I'm imagining Casey as Oolong from Dragon Ball...

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 02:21 PM
:x This episode was complete and utter booty. I don't think I can watch the show anymore.

You've been saying this same thing every week in every episode review thread, yet you keep coming back. You have my permission to stop watching.

OrangeNinja1987
05-17-2015, 02:35 PM
I don't know what to think about this episode.
I noticed a ton of logic gaps, like why is Karai suddenly human again at the beginning, and how was April randomly dreaming of snakes just before a snake actually bites her?!
The Leo/Splinter sparring at the beginning was great, though. The episode's highlight.
The healing technique thing was what killed this episode for me. That is the one thing I hate most of all in fiction! Having a character that can heal someone in almost any situation, even on the verge of death, destroys the tension! In order to have any worries about a character's fate, the healing character must be out of the picture.
Everything about the healing was off. Splinter suddenly remembered he can freaking do that after fifteen years? Leo learned it in one day? Where did that scroll come from?
I admit, I missed a lot of lines in this episode. I was making fun of a ton of it with my friend. It was hard to take any of this seriously, especially because the random healing abilities angered me early into the episode.
For once, I hope this show carries on with its trend of dropping plot points and forgets the healing abilities by the next episode.
Not a horrible episode, it just wasn't up my alley.
5/10

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 02:40 PM
Karai was never human. Baxter stabilized her human form, that's why she was always in snake form constantly in the episodes before this. She is of course still a mutant, but she has her mind and body back even though she's under Shredder's control.

Sabacooza
05-17-2015, 02:44 PM
It feels like the show has no director, like the writers are just told to do whatever they want.They can write whatever they want just as long as Leo is the savior of every episode and gets praised for saving the day. :roll: Yeah, the writers and producers are just phoning it in now and have been doing it for quite some time.

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 02:45 PM
They can write whatever they want just as long as Leo is the savior of every episode and gets praised for saving the day. :roll: Yeah, the writers and producers are just phoning it in now and have been doing it for quite some time.

Why are you so bitter about Leonardo saving them? It makes far more sense for him to learn Splinter's technique than any of the others.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 02:45 PM
Karai was never human. Baxter stabilized her human form, that's why she was always in snake form constantly in the episodes before this. She is of course still a mutant, but she has her mind and body back even though she's under Shredder's control.

She was human at the beginning of the episode but later was shown as a mutant.

Papenbrook
05-17-2015, 02:45 PM
You've been saying this same thing every week in every episode review thread, yet you keep coming back. You have my permission to stop watching.


Believe me, I've been trying to enjoy the episodes, but the character derailments, plot holes, and the numerous amounts of OT homages ruin it for me. I don't actually know what to do anymore.

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 02:46 PM
Even after watching a second time my thoughts are still the same: What a lackluster episode.

My apologies if I sound like a broken record but: Baxter turned Karai human again, completely offscreen and with no indications on how he did it. He has no clue how to make retromutagen in the first place! And if he did, why is he still a mutant? You’d think he’d turn himself back immediately… Furthermore, we’ve just learned that the normal retromutagen doesn’t work on Karai anyway, so he’d have to alter the formula, something even Donnie couldn’t do. But he just did. Sure.

I get the feeling this is just a thing I'm supposed to ignore and handwave... :ohwell:

And then, the worm goes in and Karai goes back to being a mutant… Okay, maybe the mutagen inside the worm *somehow* changed her back.
Which, now that I think about it, might be an easy way for the writers to make Karai fully human again. Maybe only the worm gives her those powers, so when she’ll eventually break the mind control and spits it out, her powers and mutation will vanish as well, because the worm is gone. And boom, human Karai is back.
I hope I’m wrong with this…

I did enjoy the sparring match, but then I remembered why I sometimes really dislike Splinter: His blatantly obvious favoritism of Leonardo. Not only did he train him privately without the others, they had to watch from the door, but he also offered this healing method solely to Leo as well. He didn’t even consider asking the other three. Sure, maybe they wouldn’t be able to do it, but he could nonetheless let them try.

While we’re at it… Those healing powers. Really? Look, I don’t mind the concept, this is a world with aliens, mutants and all sorts of superpowers so characters with healing hands are far from being out there. It’s the sudden appearance that bugs me. Splinter was capable of doing this the whole time? And he never bothered using, teaching, heck even mentioning them? Doesn’t he realize how awesome and broken healing powers are?!

Also… Is it just me or did they praise Leo to the skies a little too much in this episode? I’ll admit: He was awesome and pretty badass. But, I mean: He got exclusive training with Splinter, managed to defeat him (Splinter was still recovering, so it doesn’t really count… maybe), he learned this healing thing after seeing it once and became an instant expert, just as good as Splinter and at the end everyone goes out of there way to praise Leo. With Splinter saying how only few martial artists have ever mastered those healing powers and Raph, of all people, telling him that they’d be basically doomed if Leo wasn’t there all the time and saying that they weren’t pretty much good for anything.
Most of all these things, the healing thing somewhat killed it for me in regards to Leo. I love him, I really do, he's my favorite turtle alongside Mikey... But this is the first time where I actually hope the plot amnesia will strike and those powers are never heard of ever again...
It’s like… the writers were somewhat trying too hard to make Leo shine. I get it, he’s awesome and the strongest, which should be a given since he’s the leader. Shove it right into my face, why don’t cha…

What else… Oh yeah, Casey. Hitting on everything that moves, are we… Just… urgh.

Really, I did not like this episode aside from a few scenes, it also just felt rather rushed and was over way too quickly. Overall: Meh.

I have, I watched it 3 times now. Baxter probably meant that her human form can control her snake form because before, it was her snake form controlling her human form so she was losing her mind.

She wasn't using her snake abilities that's why she looked normal at the start of the episode. The worm had nothing to do with her changing back to a snake so even if he didn't put the worm into her she will still have her snake abilities.

So, what you're saying is that Karai has a human mind and a snake mind. When the latter is in control, her human form also has those serpent attributes, but when the former has the upper hand her human form looks completely normal while still being a mutant nonetheless.

Well, I guess that's a theory as good as any. I'll keep that in mind, as another possibilty to my own thoughts.

TurtleTitan97
05-17-2015, 02:48 PM
Believe me, I've been trying to enjoy the episodes, but the character derailments, plot holes, and the numerous amounts of OT homages ruin it for me. I don't actually know what to do anymore.

If it bothers you that much, you could just stop watching.

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 02:48 PM
She was not human at the beginning of the episode, they never cured her mutation. Pay attention.

Jephael
05-17-2015, 02:50 PM
I've been trying to enjoy the episodes, but the character derailments, plot holes, and the numerous amounts of OT homages ruin it for me. I don't actually know what to do anymore.

Turn off the computer, unplug your TV set, make plans with some friends and/or family and never look back!

Sabacooza
05-17-2015, 02:50 PM
Believe me, I've been trying to enjoy the episodes, but the character derailments, plot holes, and the numerous amounts of OT homages ruin it for me. I don't actually know what to do anymore.Here, here to that.

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 02:58 PM
I'm surprised nobody made a mention of April in her pajama's. Pretty sure that's a new design.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 03:01 PM
She was not human at the beginning of the episode, they never cured her mutation. Pay attention.

She had human eyes and teeth instead of snake eyesfangs.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 03:03 PM
So, what you're saying is that Karai has a human mind and a snake mind. When the latter is in control, her human form also has those serpent attributes, but when the former has the upper hand her human form looks completely normal while still being a mutant nonetheless.

Well, I guess that's a theory as good as any. I'll keep that in mind, as another possibilty to my own thoughts.

Yes that is what i'm saying.

The mind control worm is controlling her at the moment including her snake abilities that's why you see her in her semi snake form (her green eyes, snake teeth ect) after Baxter given the worm to her, it hasn't mutated her again when she's already mutated, the worm is just controlling her.

I assume Baxter made something to stabilize Karai's mind as he couldn't give her the worm before because she was losing her mind when her snake mind was controling her.

Powder
05-17-2015, 03:05 PM
This episode was a big waste of time, in my opinion.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 03:06 PM
She had human eyes and teeth instead of snake eyesfangs.

That was because she was in control of her snake form, she can change her appearance, As soon the mind control worm entered her it controlled her mind and snake abillities which includes her appearance.

Ninturtle
05-17-2015, 03:10 PM
I'm surprised nobody made a mention of April in her pajama's. Pretty sure that's a new design.

I think it was in the episode "The Kraang Conspiracy".

BubblyShell22
05-17-2015, 03:12 PM
I loved this episode! Everything about it was great, but I especially loved the healing chant that Splinter taught Leo. That was the best part and how Leo used it against Karai. Also, I don't think Stockman's retro-mutagen totally worked because she still has snakes for hands and venom, so she's not entirely human. I wish that they would have taken her home with them, but I guess there needs to be more to the arc instead of resolving it. It was good to see Kirby again, too, and to hear him voice his concern over April, though I still think there's more than meets the eye with him. That kiss between Karai and Casey was great, and I loved how Casey was so flirty with her. Seems like he's definitely a player! Overall, a pretty awesome episode, and I love how Leo got the spotlight, but that's because I'm totally biased as a Leo fan.

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 03:15 PM
Yes that is what i'm saying.

The mind control worm is controlling her at the moment including her snake abilities that's why you see her in her semi snake form (her green eyes, snake teeth ect) after Baxter given the worm to her, it hasn't mutated her again when she's already mutated, the worm is just controlling her.

I assume Baxter made something to stabilize Karai's mind as he couldn't give her the worm before because she was losing her mind when her snake mind was controling her.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. This might be possible, of course. It's a shame we only have Baxters words ("I'll help you, just as I turned you human again.") and never got to see what he did to her. So I interpreted this line differently, in that she's really 'normal' again. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens when she pukes out the worm. :lol:

IndigoErth
05-17-2015, 03:25 PM
He's a protective dad. He's like any overly protective father who doesn't think just any guy is worthy of his daughter.
On top of the fact that he and his daughter have really been through some crap in their lives, in more recent years and what ever happened prior to moving to the city.

Probably taking all his limited strength as it is not to lock her up in a padded room so the world/aliens/monsters can't get her. lol





If Leo was to add this mystical healing type skill to his arsenal, I'd have rather he'd been taking some time to get the hang of it. Conveniently too easy for sake of the plot... Kid must have a memory like a steel trap if he even memorized it all correctly that fast. I wouldn't mind seeing him with something new to work on.

BubblyShell22
05-17-2015, 03:28 PM
Also wanted to add that I loved the training session at the beginning. I have definitely missed those. Also, I don't mind that Leo shined in this ep or that the others were praising him. He did do good things, and I get the feeling that the others wouldn't be adept at the healing thing. Donnie would probably dismiss it as nonsense in favor of real medical stuff, Raph wouldn't care, and Mikey doesn't have the attention span to learn something like that. So Splinter showed Leo who's very adept at it. And I hope they don't forget it because Leo being a healer is awesome. If only I could learn something like that to cure my grandpa of his cysts. What a wonderful thing that would be!

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
05-17-2015, 03:30 PM
E
With Splinter saying how only few martial artists have ever mastered those healing powers and Raph, of all people, telling him that they’d be basically doomed if Leo wasn’t there all the time and saying that they weren’t pretty much good for anything.

Of course they did. It's the same turtle who sacrificed himself twice during a finale, was kicking ass in the same episode that he wakes up from a coma that he was in for months...

Who cares about Mikey or Raph. One's just the moron, the other is just the useless pussy. At least they are in this show's eyes...

And if you can just heal folks at the snap of a finger, then there's no point in any danger from here on...they have two people (Splinter & Leo) to magically heal them.

neatoman
05-17-2015, 03:34 PM
So I want to ask something, if it wasn't just badly written dialouge at the begining and Baxter really did cure Karai, why didn't he cure himself? If he did figure out a cure (or at least thought he did) then wouldn't he want to cure himself as quickly as possible? I seriously doubt he'd want to continue an existance where he has to eat his own puke.

shredder orokusaki
05-17-2015, 03:35 PM
He didnt cure himselft because i didnt allow him to be cured. His mutantion was a punishment for his failures.

Autbot_Benz
05-17-2015, 03:39 PM
He didnt cure himselft because i didnt allow him to be cured. His mutantion was a punishment for his failures.

Stop talking like you are shredder you moron :x. Please seek professional Help

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 03:41 PM
Of course they did. It's the same turtle who sacrificed himself twice during a finale, was kicking ass in the same episode that he wakes up from a coma that he was in for months...

Who cares about Mikey or Raph. One's just the moron, the other is just the useless pussy. At least they are in this show's eyes...

And if you can just heal folks at the snap of a finger, then there's no point in any danger from here on...they have two people (Splinter & Leo) to magically heal them.

The healing was only for poison, not physical injuries.

IndigoErth
05-17-2015, 03:44 PM
The healing was only for poison, not physical injuries.
But Splinter didn't bring out the poison related scroll until later, and Leo wasn't taught that? I'm confused.

Mukouno
05-17-2015, 03:44 PM
Of course they did. It's the same turtle who sacrificed himself twice during a finale, was kicking ass in the same episode that he wakes up from a coma that he was in for months...

Who cares about Mikey or Raph. One's just the moron, the other is just the useless pussy. At least they are in this show's eyes...

And if you can just heal folks at the snap of a finger, then there's no point in any danger from here on...they have two people (Splinter & Leo) to magically heal them.

I didn't want to put it as bluntly... But yes, so true... :ohwell:

So I want to ask something, if it wasn't just badly written dialouge at the begining and Baxter really did cure Karai, why didn't he cure himself? If he did figure out a cure (or at least thought he did) then wouldn't he want to cure himself as quickly as possible? I seriously doubt he'd want to continue an existance where he has to eat his own puke.

I asked myself the same question, but if he really didn't come up with a retromutagen and only stabilized her human form... That'd explain that. Otherwise... Maybe Shredder simply put Karai above anything else and Baxter has to listen to him or else... Well, he had to make Karai his priority and simply didn't have enough time to make retromutagen for himself.

Coola Yagami
05-17-2015, 03:46 PM
Except that Splinter used it earlier on his injured knee..... so... yeah.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
05-17-2015, 03:46 PM
The healing was only for poison, not physical injuries.

Yeah, which I guess Splinter couldn't show anybody or even mention it beforehand even though one of their enemies that they faced from time to time was Fishface...an enemy that Bites And Poisons You (for example, when he poisoned Raph). You'd think it'd be right AFTER Raph had been poisoned, that Splinter would find out and go 'oh, maybe I'll teach them about this Now instead of waiting a few seasons to THEN try to each only ONE...even though I could at least ATTEMPT to TRY to teach all four, since four possible healers would be better than one'.

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 03:51 PM
The healing was only for poison, not physical injuries.

I'll add something here

Splinter's does use the healing for his physical injury he got from Slash but it doesn't completely heel him it must keep the pain under control.

Splinter does the same sort of thing to April the first time he uses the healing on her to keep the venom under control, Leo does the same thing later to himself.

Earlier in the episode, you see Splinter with that scroll for the healing poisons/bites ect so there must different healing techniques for injuries,poisons ect

So later when you see him do it on April and then on the others later he must have mastered the healing spell for the poisons.

oldmanwinters
05-17-2015, 03:54 PM
While we’re at it… Those healing powers. Really? Look, I don’t mind the concept, this is a world with aliens, mutants and all sorts of superpowers so characters with healing hands are far from being out there. It’s the sudden appearance that bugs me. Splinter was capable of doing this the whole time? And he never bothered using, teaching, heck even mentioning them? Doesn’t he realize how awesome and broken healing powers are?!


The concept involving April fainting and needed a quick antidote isn't original in the multiverse (see OT's Enter The Fly), but the clever Ninja exercise at the end after a decent confrontation with the Foot/Karai felt was a good way to end the May Sweeps.


Overall, I liked a lot of the episode's moments, however, the central plot point was probably one of the dumbest things we've seen yet in the show.

I'm not a huge fan of plots being resolved through deus ex machina "special ninja magic techniques" Despite all the TMNT and Splinter have been through, we only just now get introduced to this little healing trick that seems to have no limits. In the introduction to the technique, Splinter seems to have it function as the equivalent of an Icy Hot pack for sore bones, but by the end of the episode, it's the ultimate immunity solution to all deadly toxins. When Leo encapsulates himself in that spirit aura, it might as well be the Mario Bros. grabbing a Starman because he was pretty much invulnerable at that point. I mean... really? Why should Donatello even bother with medical technology anymore?

The Enter the Fly episode of the OT pulled this off much better in context, because even though Splinter knew of magic ninja healing techniques, he had to have a particular rare plant in order to brew the antidote. It was made very clear in that episode that No Plant = No Cure, and thus no universal plot solution to any potential crisis that might arise. Now granted, that was the same series that gave us the "Michelangelo's Birthday" episode with magic moth balls and "if you believe something strongly enough, it might just happen." Ugh.

So, Leo is now one bullet-dodging scene away from becoming Neo :D. But overall, a good episode.

Exactly. I did enjoy the sparring session and Leo getting the better of Splinter. It reminded me of the 4Kids episode in Season 4 where Leonardo's dedication finally allowed him to surpass Splinter as a fighter during a similar sparring session. That led to the beginning of his trip to meet The Ancient One.

neatoman
05-17-2015, 04:00 PM
The healing was only for poison, not physical injuries.

Yeah because poisons totally don't work by causing physical damage to the body. :roll:

Vicky82
05-17-2015, 04:27 PM
Eugene Son wrote this episode and I didn't recognise the name so I assume he is a guest writer, So I looked him up on IMDB he is best known for writing episodes for Ben 10, Ultimate Spiderman, Superhero Squad. He hasn't written any other episodes for TMNT, so I wonder that's why the episode a couple of flaws.

He has though wrote 2 episodes for TMNT 2k3 show, The Trouble with Augie and Scion of the Shredder.

Leofan26
05-17-2015, 04:32 PM
Ok, it's been along time since I've posted. Mostly cuz it's been a while since I've actually enjoyed the show. I think the last one was when Leo got back on his two feet and was finally able to fight, Into the Woods I think the episode was called? Season three hasn't been my cup of tea.

However, I have been keeping up to date on here lurking for season three information to see if it'd have any thing to peak my intrest. I noticed all these complaints on Raph's character, hey at least you guy's have those live action films. You have no idea how disapointed I was with how they handled Leo's character, not to mention him and Karai ( Who's Leo's rival / love intrest ) Never really interacted or faught. I am hopeful for the next film but after the past three 80s films, chances are grim. So let us Leo fans have fun with the TV shows at least will yah? :roll:

I loved Leo in this episode, I'm sure if Raph was the one who learned this new ability and saved the day I'm sure you guy's would be all for it. Since it's Leo instead, complaints by the tons. I know you guy's complained in the dark Raph arc that Leo saved the day in that episode too so it's not just this new ability you have a problem with. Some one asked what fandom is considered the worst, I'm starting to wonder about this here :roll:

Oh the fun Wars that go on between Leo and Raph fans I've seen in places, fun times fun times.

I loved the training session between Leo and Splinter, that healing ability is awesome and do hope these guy's remember he has it and actually uses it more :lol:

I do enjoy the Leo moments, we get. Thanks writers.

Next episode, Rent appears right? Not sure how I feel about another romance pairing but guess I'll give it a chance, I can see both Leo and Donnie giving Mikey advice on romance, Raph has no Experince with it.

JTH
05-17-2015, 04:33 PM
Of course they did. It's the same turtle who sacrificed himself twice during a finale, was kicking ass in the same episode that he wakes up from a coma that he was in for months...

Who cares about Mikey or Raph. One's just the moron, the other is just the useless pussy. At least they are in this show's eyes...

And if you can just heal folks at the snap of a finger, then there's no point in any danger from here on...they have two people (Splinter & Leo) to magically heal them.
Didn't you say after the Season 3 Premiere thread that you were done with the show?

Now here you are for the last 7 months straight, still complaining. Should have took your own advice.

Then you wonder why hardly anyone takes any of the venom you spew seriously...

You whine, you complain, you tune in the next week. :roll:

Chaotix12345
05-17-2015, 04:34 PM
Alright episode, but I was hoping for more progress made towards Karai's story rather than just the "Okay, she's in Shredder's control now. That's it. See ya later!" we ended up getting that was pretty much summed up in the first couple minutes. All the rest of the episode served to do was show us that Splinter's still ailing a bit from Slash's attack, teach Leo a new technique that may or may not come up again, and let the Turtles know that Karai is controlled. Wasn't really that terribly eventful for something that it seemed like the whole mind control plot was leading up to.

That being said, there were some nice moments. I liked Kirby actually being there for April in an actual normal, non-him-immediately-mutating-or-dealing-with-season-finale-type-stuff episode for once, Leo's fight scene at the end, April and Casey's moment, and just the fact that Splinter didn't simply shrug off getting hit across the face by a spiked mace previously. All-around, though, not the strongest ep to go out on for a while.

(Also, I was surprised that Leo didn't immediately try to make Karai mad to draw the worm out. Even if Stockman fixed it, the Turtles didn't know that. Eh, maybe he was too woozy to think of it.)

victory_angel
05-17-2015, 04:41 PM
I actually enjoyed this episode

Great early 33rd birthday present from Nick.

All the Turtles have their strengths and skills in healing.

Leo is a spiritual healer
Donnie is the one of the who is most likely considered a doctor.
Raph is more of an EMT
And Mikey is a care giver.

In every incarnation, Leo is more attuned to the spiritual side of things. That's why he is the one who is more likely to turn to meditation.

Donnie depending on the incarnation has a dubious view if not an out right bias against Spiritual practice. This incarnation of Donnie is more accepting of the concept of the unknown, but that doesn't mean that he isn't going to try and understand it.

He has been shown to turn to meditation himself...but only once all tangible ways of seeking answers are exhausted. So he has the focus and patience to learn Spiritual practices. But he doesn't have the interest in doing so.

Raph doesn't have a patience

and Mikey doesn't have the focus.

MrTMNT2012
05-17-2015, 05:03 PM
Cool episode. Liked the zen parallels and how real-life martial arts philosophies were implemented into Leo's development!

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
05-17-2015, 05:04 PM
Didn't you say after the Season 3 Premiere thread that you were done with the show?

Now here you are for the last 7 months straight, still complaining. Should have took your own advice.

Then you wonder why hardly anyone takes any of the venom you spew seriously...

You whine, you complain, you tune in the next week. :roll:


Then just hit the ignore button on me. Duh. :trolleye:

Actually, since you had to waste an entire paragraph whining about little ole me instead of:

A: Concentrating on the topic
B: Talking about the show
C: Bringing me up even though I didn't bring you or anyone else up to insult, which I guess makes you the Bigger Man (aren't you special)

I actually haven't watched the show since then. So yeah, I kept my part of the deal. I said I'd watch the show when it has improved. And considering how this thread gives Everything on the shows away with description of scenes, gifs, plot summaries, sequences, questions being answered, etc...it's all here.

And the funny thing is...if I DID watch the show and said my peace, then you would have attacked me with that little paragraph of yours up above...

And guess what? Even without watching the show, I was able to guess the whole 'Dark Raph' thing, how it would end up, and so on...and hey, not bad for someone who hasn't even watched the show and Yet was able to guess what would happen...that's how predictable the show has become...

You know why I still look on here though? Because I would LOVE to read something that says that the show is worthwhile again. I would love to hear that Mikey & Raph have been treated with more respect than is currently being given to them. I would love to read some stuff and go 'Hey, you know what? I need to give this show a chance again!'

But when constant thoughts abound on here on how Raph & Mikey are poorly used on the show (and, sorry to burst your bubble, but i'm not the only one who has said that), it kind of turns me off on giving it a chance. So if two of my favorite characters are used to such poor effect, then screw it. Or about how constant arcs are just abandoned, how much the writing has weakened, how things are just dropped, and more...yeah, no thanks.

I'm sure you were one of those same people who said 'You can't judge the new Michael Bay produced flick until you see it'...and yet, guess what? It was EXACTLY what most people said it would be...

Just hit the ignore button on me if I'm such a Bother to you, JTH. Instead of derailing the topic and thread any longer.

P.S.: Also, it IS kind of funny that I can say some of these things and yet, go figure! Some people who DID watch the show actually agreed with what I said (if you don't believe me, I could gladly show you those comments). I guess I'm just a good guesser, eh?

So are you done JTH? Thank You.

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 05:08 PM
Eugene Son also wrote the 2k3 episode "Scion of the Shredder" which was the ep in Season 4 where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them.

And now in the Nick show he wrote this episode where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them. Its kind of funny he wrote almost the same type of episode for two TMNT shows.

IndigoErth
05-17-2015, 05:18 PM
Eugene Son also wrote the 2k3 episode "Scion of the Shredder" which was the ep in Season 4 where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Jenny_Wildcat/Oh%20Crap%20gifs/tumblr_l9vflhLwaP1qd9x6to1_250.gif





Side note...
"Scion of the Shredder"
Not the sort of car I'd imagine him with. :P

Werecat
05-17-2015, 05:26 PM
Eugene Son also wrote the 2k3 episode "Scion of the Shredder" which was the ep in Season 4 where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them.

And now in the Nick show he wrote this episode where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them. Its kind of funny he wrote almost the same type of episode for two TMNT shows.
That explains why the rest of the turtles are one-dimensional characters and the episode is Leo obsessed. 2k3 writers seem to dislike every other turtle besides Leo and it shows through their writing.

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 05:34 PM
That explains why the rest of the turtles are one-dimensional characters and the episode is Leo obsessed. 2k3 writers seem to dislike every other turtle besides Leo and it shows through their writing.

LOL, no. You must have watched a different show than everyone else did.

neatoman
05-17-2015, 05:39 PM
That explains why the rest of the turtles are one-dimensional characters and the episode is Leo obsessed. 2k3 writers seem to dislike every other turtle besides Leo and it shows through their writing.

I never really got that impression whenever I watched that show. Just because they put focus on one character does mean they dislike the others.

saber16
05-17-2015, 05:47 PM
Believe me, I've been trying to enjoy the episodes, but the character derailments, plot holes, and the numerous amounts of OT homages ruin it for me. I don't actually know what to do anymore.


... Stop... watching it?
Just stick with the seasons you like and pretend the show was canned where you feel it lost it's edge. Meanwhile everyone still on board will go back to enjoying the... Another hiatus... suuuuper.

Meliwen
05-17-2015, 06:02 PM
I did enjoy the sparring match, but then I remembered why I sometimes really dislike Splinter: His blatantly obvious favoritism of Leonardo. Not only did he train him privately without the others, they had to watch from the door, but he also offered this healing method solely to Leo as well. He didn’t even consider asking the other three. Sure, maybe they wouldn’t be able to do it, but he could nonetheless let them try.
That's the initial feeling I got from Splinter vs Leo as well, and that's the one thing that bothered me about that scene, which was otherwise great. But now I think it's less of Splinter training Leo privately, and more like Splinter is training himself, and Leo's the best one to help him with that. He needs to get back into fighting form, and Leo's got the best blend of skill and care to be the best opponent.

But yeah, it would've been nice if he taught them all that healing skill, even if in the end they don't get the hang of it. But I guess he knows enough of their ability to know only Leo had a chance.

Ashwolf
05-17-2015, 06:08 PM
it was a pretty good ep though it kinda felt mediocre, leo learning that healing technique was a nice surprise though I don't see him being able 2 use it much in a actual fight, splinter probably would've taught it 2 the others but, not sure if this is true 4 all incarnations, leo is the 1 that spends the most time practicing his skills out of all of them and I think its cool how the writers r starting 2 show more of that

when that worm went in karai, it would've been a nice reference 2 stargate if it entered through the back of the neck instead of her ear

the whole ep, I was expecting Kirby 2 go off on splinter and Donnie, and carry april out of there just cause of his lack of trust in them :lol: expecting more of that side of Kirby 2 be brought up in the future and wouldn't be surprised if he does tell some1 like bishop or a network crew their secret after some explosive event

regarding the whole "returning karai 2 normal/freeing her from the mind control" this incarnation has a tendency 4 something big of that sort 2 happen 2 some1 close 2 them be4 actually finding a remedy 4 said situation

it took Kirby getting mutated be4 don actually did start working on the retromutagen despite timothy getting mutated be4 Kirby, in the mutanimals ep, they only figured out how 2 free slash and Rockwell from the serum worm after it happened 2 raph also, and yeah, karai is close 2 them in a way but shes still not exactly in their inner circle, yet...

senpai
05-17-2015, 06:11 PM
I think Leo is Nick’s favorite turtle…

There was a lot of suspense in this episode. I think we all foresaw what was going to happen when Splinter showed Leo the ‘healing hand’ technique or whatever it was called.

And now I'm imagining Casey as Oolong from Dragon Ball...

Don't put it in my head! :lol:

I'm surprised nobody made a mention of April in her pajama's. Pretty sure that's a new design.

No, it's not. She answered her window wearing that same outfit in season 1; you just didn't get a good look of her pajama pants.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/0/07/S01E14_April_Leo2.png/revision/latest?cb=20130218050423

Luckyday
05-17-2015, 06:12 PM
I have pretty much the same misgivings but before I drink my sorrows in beer, I feel the need to say a few things that I did actually like in this episode.

First all and again despite my huge dislike of the direction of my personal favorite character, I really like the pacing and tone of this episode. This episode was tense and claustrophobic from the way that Karai was hunting the turtles down. Who ever directed this episode did a supreme job. The writer on the other hand....let's just say that he is not my favorite person in the world right now.

Another thing that was good but also interesting because it tells something about a character insight on another person.

I found it extremely odd and almost a plot hole when Kirby took April to the turtles first and not a medical doctor, because we already seen Kirby be able to identify an animal species in less then a second in Operation: Break Out which is important information for a medical doctor to have when treating someone who has been bitten by an poisonous animal, but he was panicking and said out loud that he regret doing this immediately.

It was good because as long the character points out something in hindsight or just use basic common sense then it helps in keeping the suspension in disbelief. It was just nice that someone over there on that writing team notice these things and isn't just trying to crank out a rush script. I wish that same person would have change Baxter's dialogue in the beginning.

What was interesting about it was because it shows , even if it was unintentional, on how much Kirby has a high opinion on Donnie since his first thought was to go to Donnie instead of a regular doctor. Despite what victory_angel said on how Kirby would act, I think Kirby won't be so bent out of shape on April dating Donnie. He would still get bitter about it but only if April tried to lie and keep the relationship a secret.

Now please excuse me while I go and get shitfaced.

Shark_Blade
05-17-2015, 06:23 PM
Oh man, I cracked up when Mikey's about to suck the venom out of Casey's tiny butt. :tlol: But when the heck did the snakes bit him?? :-? Shouldn't the venom be sucked out from his mouth where Karai kissed him?? If her little snakes gonna bit him later then what's the point of the kiss in the first place? She's just horny? Oh that Karai. :twink:Believe me, I've been trying to enjoy the episodes, but the character derailments, plot holes, and the numerous amounts of OT homages ruin it for me. I don't actually know what to do anymore.Stop watching then. So annoying with your constant complaints. Face it, you've grown older, got more boring and can't accept nice and fun things. Go watch something else if you can't contribute positively.

Werecat
05-17-2015, 06:24 PM
I never really got that impression whenever I watched that show. Just because they put focus on one character does mean they dislike the others.
Ending scene went like this "Wow Leo you saved us all. Blah blah. and you did it solo! None of us could ever do that'' Then in the earlier scenes Raph got taken out very easily and it was offscreen. The proof is there that the 2k3 writers do not respect or care for the other turtles besides Leo.

Follow the leader is the better leo episode because he is shown that the other turtles are just as capable as him. Now it seems the other turtles are one dimensional and can't manage on their own without Leo now. Seems like the writing is devolving.

Edit: Also Casey basically cheated on April with Karai and the writers didn't even resolve it or notice it themselves. The writing was terrible and too Leo obsessed to be any good.

If they are going to make one-dimensional characters at least add growth to them just like 21 Jump Street. Were the stereotypes were challenged by things out of their element and progressed into a complex character. For example, Channing Tatum had to learn science and other smart things to overcome problems. The nerd had to learn to become popular to overcome his problems. It is possible for more than one character to have a plot and character progression. The 2k3 writers just don't seem interested in character progression for the others instead they proven they want to keep the spotlight on Leo.

CyberCubed
05-17-2015, 06:24 PM
Felt really odd to see Rocksteady in this ep but no Bebop, even if it was just that one small scene.

MrTMNT2012
05-17-2015, 06:26 PM
Best line of the Episode: "DUDE, why do you have a pineapple for a head?"

JTH
05-17-2015, 06:29 PM
Felt really odd to see Rocksteady in this ep but no Bebop, even if it was just that one small scene.
I like that they at least try to give them some separate individuality rather than always being connected at the hip. Though they probably shouldn't get too carried away with it.

Papenbrook
05-17-2015, 06:48 PM
Stop watching then. So annoying with your constant complaints. Face it, you've grown older, got more boring and can't accept nice and fun things. Go watch something else if you can't contribute positively.



So, I'm not allowed to express my opinion and complain about the quality of the show?

Not every episode is going to have positive responses, Shark Blade. You just have to deal with it.

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 06:51 PM
So, I'm not allowed to express my opinion and complain about the quality of the show?

Not every episode is going to have positive responses, Shark Blade. You just have to deal with it.

If you want to express your opinion, fine. The same deal of you repeating yourself on the previous episodes and now is just becoming annoying and angering people.

At the very least, be a reviewer and say what you like as well as dislike for the episode.

senpai
05-17-2015, 06:52 PM
I tried to translate the healing-hands mantra but my Japanese skills are still not very good. None of it made sense x.x If anyone is able to translate, I'd be greatly obliged.

matteso586
05-17-2015, 06:55 PM
Vicky82: You think this episode is more intense than Slash & Destroy, Clash of the Mutanimals, and Newtralized?

Papenbrook
05-17-2015, 07:43 PM
If you want to express your opinion, fine. The same deal of you repeating yourself on the previous episodes and now is just becoming annoying and angering people.

At the very least, be a reviewer and say what you like as well as dislike for the episode.


I guess you're right. I used to be so invested in the show, but now I just want to avoid it. It's like I fell out of love with this show.


The only things I liked about the episode was the suspense of what was happening with Karai poisoning her victims, and the pace of the episode. Other than that, this episode was a waste of my time.

drgon78
05-17-2015, 07:46 PM
Great episode now it is time to wait for the next one, whenever that will be.

GoldMutant
05-17-2015, 07:49 PM
I guess you're right. I used to be so invested in the show, but now I just want to avoid it. It's like I fell out of love with this show.

The only things I liked about the episode was the suspense of what was happening with Karai poisoning her victims, and the pace of the episode. Other than that, this episode was a waste of my time.

At the very least just control your attitude as well as providing good points and people will understand your opinions. That'll help other people understand your perspective instead of being a jerk.

I can't help bringing your old passion for the show back though, we all have lost heart in somethings. Perhaps one day it'll come back, but that's up to your heart and mind.

THGhost
05-17-2015, 08:26 PM
"Go ninja, go ninja, go!"
Nice to see Leo kicking Splinter's arse for a change, even if he is still recovering.
Healing hands. Interesting.
Movie title at the theatre: "The Six Deadly Poisons". Very subtle :P
Seeing April in her pajamas instead of her usual clothes was kinda weird.
Casey's got some moves on that bike!
The idea of Mikey sucking Casey's butt. No. Just no! xD
Love Leo's contact picture for Raph on his T-phone :)
Pineapple Donnie was hilarious!
Leo using Splinter's healing hands technique and taking down Karai = So much win.
That little smile from Leo when Splinter told him he was proud of him ^_^

Pretty solid episode. One of the best for a while.

yellowmario27
05-17-2015, 08:42 PM
Does anyone know when the next set of episode will air? or have they not even been announced yet.



also, I think it's fine when people complain about the show or a certain episode, but when they do it for every single episode it get's annoying. Imagine being in the same room with someone when all they do is complain and criticize.

Lethal Lullaby
05-17-2015, 09:34 PM
Well this was an interesting episode. ^-^ The healing hands chant sort of reminded me of Rei Hino(Sailor Mars) with how she gets rid of evil spirits. She uses some of the same words and hand gestures. So that was pretty neat to see.

Donny's computer84
05-17-2015, 10:01 PM
This had good action and some scenes that were a little dark like Karai getting a mind controlling worm. Leo had to go solo to rescue his brothers and Casey and overcome the venom, fight Karai and the foot. He learned an ancient technique from Splinter to overcome the venom in his body.

ssjup81
05-17-2015, 10:03 PM
*Sigh* Please watch the first minute again. Baxter outright says he turned Karai human again. She has normal eyes, normal teeth, normal skin. It's only after that worm went inside her that she's back to her semi-human form.I haven't watched the ep yet (didn't know one was airing this week), but doesn't Baxter have the tendency to exaggerate things to make himself look better? Personally, that's what popped into mind for me.

Klunk1234
05-17-2015, 10:42 PM
I think Karai turned to normal was a temporary thing, until she got that mind control worm.

Splinter although is not fully recover, he developed a healing technique while he was having training with Leo so he taught that to his son. Leo always have that inner strength, so was appropriate to him to learn this lesson.

April was attacked, then Kirby brought her to the lair and Donnie was doing the best he could to save her without success. When they found out Casey was missing Raph and Mikey when to his rescue. Later they were attacked then Leo and Donnie were down too, but Leo remembered Master Splinter lesson, he used the technique against Karai and to heal himself. Later, he and Master Splinter, who previously save April, proceed to use their powers as healers to brought back Casey, Raph, Donnie and Mikey.
Leo feels bad for Karai but he is comforted by Master Splinter. I think this could be a new chapter in Leo's life as the leader he is destined to be. I hope Karai get cured from her mutation permanently. Great episode!

victory_angel
05-17-2015, 11:05 PM
Stockman was able to stabilize Karai's mutation so that her human mind would be in control, but she is still a mutant.

We know Donnie is trying to develop a retromutagen for Karai to return her to human. And I was impressed that even though Karai poisoned April, he was still had the frame of mind to say "It was Shredder's doing, not Karai."

And also when Leo was trying to tell Karai that she is being controlled by the Shredder through some worm. She just says "Lies won't save you." So obviously the mind control serum only allows her to believe what the Shredder wants her too.

However Karai also knows where the lair is located. Maybe she thought attacking them all in their lair would be too easy and that would come sometime in the next four episodes.

Does anyone know when the next set of episode will air? or have they not even been announced yet.

No date yet, though we do know episode 19 (20) will be Turtles in Time.

Though they are rerunning Deadly Venom on the 31st. So we are possibly going to see Turtles in Time around June 7th.

Wildcat
05-17-2015, 11:37 PM
I call BS on healing hands.

Just now this is brought up...how convenient...but actually not since they could have used it like a hundred times before.

Guess Karai's venom was supernatural. Uh huh.

Mini-Turtle
05-18-2015, 12:31 AM
Well, Donnie DID say it wasn't normal.

Also, is the next episode REALLY called Turtles in Time? If so, I really hope that Mikey steps on something sharp and exclaims "My toes! My toes!"

victory_angel
05-18-2015, 12:44 AM
Well, Donnie DID say it wasn't normal.

Also, is the next episode REALLY called Turtles in Time? If so, I really hope that Mikey steps on something sharp and exclaims "My toes! My toes!"

According to the Zap2it, that is the next episode. Date isn't given, but if the reruns are any indication we should have it the first Sunday of June.

However according to the episode stamp on it, it is marked as episode 320. We are likely to learn the titles for 319, 321, and 322 sometime in the next to weeks while Nick is taking the memorial day break.

And episodes 323, 324, and 325-26 are going to be revealed sometime after Comic Con in July. I'm looking forward to when they start having comic cons in San Jose.

neatoman
05-18-2015, 01:07 AM
Don't put it in my head! :lol:


Too late!

Shredder: Dragon! I wish for...
Casey: I WISH FOR APRIL'S PANTIES!!!
Shredder: What?!
[A pair of panties with cute little turtles on them appear in Casey's hands]
Casey: Snort, hehuhaha, snort.

Also, I just noticed that I can make a faith healer joke about Leo... I'm not going to until I figured out one though.

Vicky82
05-18-2015, 02:08 AM
Edit: Also Casey basically cheated on April with Karai and the writers didn't even resolve it or notice it themselves. The writing was terrible and too Leo obsessed to be any good.


Err What????? April and Casey arn't together, they are just friends.

In Mirage, it looks like Casey cheated on April with Karai as he did wake up in Karai's bed.

Vicky82: You think this episode is more intense than Slash & Destroy, Clash of the Mutanimals, and Newtralized?

Actually yes I do, this is why I liked this episode so much because it was so intense and I was sitting at the edge of my seat (and there were moments when I was freaking out). I never expected all the turtles to be effected I thought it was just one of them.

It was also different seeing April being bitten too and being connected to a heart monitor, I just love how caring the other turtles and Splinter were towards her, it gave me feels.

It was different as we hadn't had anything like that happen to April since the 80s episode Enter the Fly when she was poisoned by that plant.

Noxonius
05-18-2015, 02:12 AM
The healing ability was a pretty big deus ex machina. How the heck did Splinter get that ''ancient healing script''? Did he find it? Where? If he had it before, why didn't he use it in like a million other situations before this one? Overall the episode seemed pretty cliche. How many times have the Turtles been poisoned/brainwashed already? Karai's character was pretty well handled but the episode wasn't too good.

I get that people complain that this show focuses on merchandise marketing a bit too much sometimes, but the original 80's show was nothing but marketing for toys that already existed before the show, and everyone apparently loves it.

Vicky82
05-18-2015, 02:26 AM
The healing ability was a pretty big deus ex machina. How the heck did Splinter get that ''ancient healing script''? Did he find it? Where? If he had it before, why didn't he use it in like a million other situations before this one? Overall the episode seemed pretty cliche. How many times have the Turtles been poisoned/brainwashed already? Karai's character was pretty well handled but the episode wasn't too good.

I get that people complain that this show focuses on merchandise marketing a bit too much sometimes, but the original 80's show was nothing but marketing for toys that already existed before the show, and everyone apparently loves it.

I expect Splinter keeps alot of ancient scrolls and books ect in his room.

The scroll he used for healing is just used for poisons that can't be cured so it was used as a last resort.

The healing he used on himself is different to one he used to get rid of the venom on April (the 2nd time), Casey and the turtles.

The healing he used on himself and April (the 1st time) is just to control the pain or in April's case stopping the venom getting worse. It doesn't completely heal them.

So there were 2 types on healing in this episode, one for controlling physical pain, injuries ect, the other one was to get rid of poisons that they can't find a cure for.

Noxonius
05-18-2015, 02:31 AM
I expect Splinter keeps alot of ancient scrolls and books ect in his room.

The scroll he used for healing is just used for poisons that can't be cured so it was used as a last resort.

The healing he used on himself is different to one he used to get rid of the venom on April (the 2nd time), Casey and the turtles.

The healing he used on himself and April (the 1st time) is just to control the pain or in April's case stopping the venom getting worse. It doesn't completely heal them.

So there were 2 types on healing in this episode, one for controlling physical pain, injuries ect, the other one was to get rid of poisons that they can't find a cure for.

Okay, so now Splinter has a closet full of plot solving devices in his room that he didn't use before but will likely use in the future when the plot demands it. With this show I wouldn't be surprised if Splinter keeps pulling out scrolls every time something like this happens. Lazy writing.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-18-2015, 02:44 AM
It's the Secret History of the Foot Clan. He has Saki's book with all the Foot secret techniques in it, and- well, you'd have to read IDW to understand. But yeah, I guess THIS Splinter still has the Foot's book. Or scrolls, or whatever.

Vicky82
05-18-2015, 03:01 AM
Okay, so now Splinter has a closet full of plot solving devices in his room that he didn't use before but will likely use in the future when the plot demands it. With this show I wouldn't be surprised if Splinter keeps pulling out scrolls every time something like this happens. Lazy writing.

I know this episode had a few flaws in the writing (it was guest writer who wrote the episode).

So how did you think they were going to be cured without the healing scroll, when Donnie tried everything to cure April and nothing was working.

Karai is a mutant so I did expect that a antidote would be hard to make because of Karai mutation.

So you expected the writers were going to let them die did you.

The healing spells probably wasn't used before in other episodes because they found solutions to the problems and they weren't needed.

So basically the special healing was used as a Last Resort

Noxonius
05-18-2015, 03:17 AM
I know this episode had a few flaws in the writing (it was guest writer who wrote the episode).

So how did you think they were going to be cured without the healing scroll, when Donnie tried everything to cure April and nothing was working.

Karai is a mutant so I did expect that a antidote would be hard to make because of Karai mutation.

So you expected the writers were going to let them die did you.

The healing spells probably wasn't used before in other episodes because they found solutions to the problems and they weren't needed.

So basically the special healing was used as a Last Resort

I don't expect the writers to kill off characters. I expect them to come up with clever, believable plots.

Wildcat
05-18-2015, 03:41 AM
I know this episode had a few flaws in the writing (it was guest writer who wrote the episode).

So how did you think they were going to be cured without the healing scroll, when Donnie tried everything to cure April and nothing was working.

Karai is a mutant so I did expect that a antidote would be hard to make because of Karai mutation.

So you expected the writers were going to let them die did you.

The healing spells probably wasn't used before in other episodes because they found solutions to the problems and they weren't needed.

So basically the special healing was used as a Last ResortThen they should have written it to have another solution. Not back the plot into a corner and need to magically solve the problem. No pun intended.

The convenience of such devise works both ways...to quickly solve the problem and/or purposely create such a problem just for the sake of bringing this ability into the series. Either way it's cheap and contradicts the character.

Even if it was introduced before having such healing powers (physical, poison, pain etc) is like Deus ex Machina. It's too easy. Who cares what happens then as long as I have time unleash my healing power.:roll:

senpai
05-18-2015, 08:08 AM
Too late!

Shredder: Dragon! I wish for...
Casey: I WISH FOR APRIL'S PANTIES!!!
Shredder: What?!
[A pair of panties with cute little turtles on them appear in Casey's hands]
Casey: Snort, hehuhaha, snort.

Also, I just noticed that I can make a faith healer joke about Leo... I'm not going to until I figured out one though.

Too cute! I love it. And then he'll wear the panties on his head instead of his bandana. "GOONGALAAAA!"

VaughnMichael
05-18-2015, 08:53 AM
I enjoyed this episode quite a bit.
There are some confusing bits though and it feels like we missed an episode.
Since when could Karai control snakes or turn into snakes or whatever that was?
I was so confused when April woke up from her dream and the snakes are still in her bed.
I was like is she dreaming still?
I personally liked the healing hands things and want more of this type of stuff in the show.
As long as it doesn't end up like the lost season of the 2k3 show.
Oh and since no one else has said anything about it I enjoyed Mikey wearing the monster mask even if he was being annoying.
I also must admit I thought this was a really good Leonardo episode and at the end was cheering for him to end Karai.
I know she's Splinters daughter but this is dragging on so long lol
I have to echo the comment made about Rocksteady being alone with no Bebop, makes me wonder what he was up to.
Hmmm what else, Kirby is creepy and a total spaz! I hope we see less of him in the future.
I also have to wonder why April didn't use her Krangg powers at all in this episode.
Casey in this show is such a dog, I seriously thought he was ignoring April but he was listening and I was like awww and then he goes and hits on Karai.
I'm also shocked they had Karai kissing him, I didn't expect that on here.
But I guess I should I mean April kissed Donatello.
I have to wonder if they will have Baxter slowly start to lose his smarts over time like he did in the old toon.
I remember it being said that not everyone on this show will have a happy ending.

gibbs615
05-18-2015, 10:25 AM
See? I just knew this was gonna happen! They brainwashed Karai like I thought they would! I just wonder now when they're gonna be able to snap her outta it and her human again completely.

Shark_Blade
05-18-2015, 10:35 AM
Shredder literally told us he wants to brainwash Karai in past episode.... that's no biggie.

Luckyday
05-18-2015, 12:04 PM
Shredder literally told us he wants to brainwash Karai in past episode.... that's no biggie.

It's funny...months ago I was like "God it would be so stupid on the writers if they brainwash her" and they did just that! It's like they're doing this on purpose.

The longer that this mind control element goes on, the dumber it starts to feel when she is cracking jokes and making complex schemes while being a mind control zombie.:x

Also because she under mind control, everything she does at this point is not her fault and held unaccounted for any pain or hardship. If some character development happens to her while being under the serum then when she breaks free from it, the entire slate will be wipe clean.

kelligrafie
05-18-2015, 12:38 PM
I know this episode had a few flaws in the writing (it was guest writer who wrote the episode).

So basically the special healing was used as a Last Resort

Yes, but it was used in exactly the same convenient (if you like) way as April's powers.

Leo's suddenly a healer of sorts. But are we likely to see that again? Not really, unless the writers come up against some uber plot hole sometime in the future and decide to whip out the jazz hands to tie an episode up quickly.

I'm not against Leo having this ability, I like that it bonds him and Splinter, but it seemed very clumsily done. I found Mikey creating a cure in Parasitica much more believable. And enjoyable.

JTH
05-18-2015, 12:56 PM
Yes, but it was used in exactly the same convenient (if you like) way as April's powers.

Leo's suddenly a healer of sorts. But are we likely to see that again? Not really, unless the writers come up against some uber plot hole sometime in the future and decide to whip out the jazz hands to tie an episode up quickly.

I'm not against Leo having this ability, I like that it bonds him and Splinter, but it seemed very clumsily done. I found Mikey creating a cure in Parasitica much more believable. And enjoyable.
Trust me, there will come a time where they will use this technique, and it won't work.

I get visions of IDW #44, it would awesome if they somehow used that arc in Season 4. I would mark like a mofo. :D

ssjup81
05-18-2015, 01:19 PM
I finally saw the ep. Was pretty interesting...but the healing thing didn't surprise me nor did it feel like a deux ex machina type thing. In the Wormquake ep, wasn't Splinter poisoned for that but used meditation to fight it off? I figured this was the same thing, just amped up. I found it cool actually. I also thought of Naruto Shippuden, and how in an early ep, I think, Sakura was using a technique to remove poison from one of the characters.

ssjup81
05-18-2015, 01:21 PM
Yes, but it was used in exactly the same convenient (if you like) way as April's powers.

Leo's suddenly a healer of sorts. But are we likely to see that again? Not really, unless the writers come up against some uber plot hole sometime in the future and decide to whip out the jazz hands to tie an episode up quickly.

I'm not against Leo having this ability, I like that it bonds him and Splinter, but it seemed very clumsily done. I found Mikey creating a cure in Parasitica much more believable. And enjoyable.But April's powers aren't convenient really. There's a pattern to it.

Karai Samurai
05-18-2015, 01:30 PM
Totally irrelevant, but the series finale of my favorite show of all time also aired yesterday and I'm still super excited about that. Back on topic, though. Those healing hands were...convenient. A little too convenient for my liking, but at least we got to see a (kinda) human Karai, so I loved that. I also loved the continuity nods (Mikey listing what bit him, Splinter's injury) so at least for this episode we can't complain about plot amnesia. Good episode. The episodes in general have been pretty consistent as of late.

Vicky82
05-18-2015, 01:52 PM
This is Karai on the phone to Leo

https://40.media.tumblr.com/46f3efbed083589231d801a75beff47a/tumblr_nok8pewakR1tibrqro1_250.jpg

https://41.media.tumblr.com/79319a2f092b8b7fc8555acbf4549945/tumblr_nok8pewakR1tibrqro2_250.jpg

If you look at her eyes and her skin they are normal. So this proves she's still a mutant at the start of episode. So she can change her appearance all the time.

I'm starting to think that this episode is in the wrong order and should be episode 19 not 18 because the time travel episode says episode 20 in the clip but on the Zap2it website says episode 19. So don't rule out bad writing just yet until we find out what the next episode is.

victory_angel
05-18-2015, 02:07 PM
I'm starting to think that this episode is in the wrong order and should be episode 19 not 18 because the time travel episode says episode 20 in the clip but on the Zap2it website says episode 19. So don't rule out bad writing just yet until we find out what the next episode is.

This is what I was saying about the Cerebus roller coster.

They are putting episode 20 as episode 19 because it is the most light hearted of the four episodes being issued. And they want that as a buffer between this episode and the rest of the episodes being issued in the next bunch.

Mona_Lisa
05-18-2015, 02:33 PM
Overall I liked the episode…. But I have my gripes as one could guess.
I liked the dark Kari scene where the worm goes inside her ear. I just like Kari, evil or not she’s awesome.
I liked the tittle of the movie April and Casey saw….
I liked how certain April was Casey was not listening but as it turned out he was.
April dreamed about snakes, then they were really in her bed! That was terrible… Next time I have a snake nightmare and wake in the middle of the night this WILL haunt me!
I did not mind Casey Flirting with Kari… April is not really dating him to my knowledge, he may be getting tired of being strung along.
1st gripe: I am not sure where the snakes came from in the turtle van, Since Mikey and Raph carried Casey and put him in the van, shouldn’t they have noticed the snakes???? Seriuosly? Only thing I could figure is there went in his rectum. (Ewwww).
2nd gripe I totally realize at this point Raph is Nick’s least favorite turtle, but you won’t even take 3 seconds to show us HOW Raph got bit?
I liked how Donnie went with Leo no arguing or complaining, even though Aprils life was in danger. I know in the past I have complained about all the Donatello focus, but I don’t dislike Donnie. I thought it showed some character development for him.
Venom absorbed Through Leo and Donnie’s skin, A+
I liked the pineapple head thing even though I hate SpongeBob.
3rd gripe Super Leo again? It probably would not bug me as bad if it wasn’t a very regular thing…. And now he has super powers?* Big Eye roll* Maybe they should let the guys die and have a Leo show…
The fight scenes were good. Gotta love action scenes regardless of who saves the day.
Last Gripe for the last scene: “You are so awesome Leo, Only you could do it Leo, we suck you rule, Blah blah blah….” I like this Raph but at this point I wish they would go 4kids and have Raph say “Scew you Leo, I could have saved myself eventually I DON’T NEED YOU”!!!!!
There my likes and dislikes! Not the best episode but way better Than most since they went to the farm.


I'm not against Leo having this ability, I like that it bonds him and Splinter, but it seemed very clumsily done. I found Mikey creating a cure in Parasitica much more believable. And enjoyable.

Agreed

Vicky82
05-18-2015, 02:47 PM
1st gripe: I am not sure where the snakes came from in the turtle van, Since Mikey and Raph carried Casey and put him in the van, shouldn’t they have noticed the snakes???? Seriuosly? Only thing I could figure is there went in his rectum. (Ewwww).
2nd gripe I totally realize at this point Raph is Nick’s least favorite turtle, but you won’t even take 3 seconds to show us HOW Raph got bit?

Snakes can easily slither into things unnoticed and hide unnoticed. When my sister lived in a flat apparently her neighbour on the same floor (2nd floor) as her found a snake in her living room and don't know how it got there. It turns out the snake was an escaped pet from 2 floors above them a few months before, they think it escaped by the toilet and traveled along the pipes and ended in my sisters neighbours flat.

Leo was the only turtle you see get bitten, you don't see Mikey get bit only tangled up in snakes and you don't see April get bit. Donnie wasn't bitten, the venom absorbed into his skin and Casey didn't get bitten the venom absorbed into his lips.

Maybe they didn't want to scare the kids too much by showing every 1 of them getting bitten by the snake, so they had to make it kid friendly by having then either bitten off screen and use the venom absorbed into the skin.

Ashwolf
05-18-2015, 03:01 PM
Totally irrelevant, but the series finale of my favorite show of all time also aired yesterday and I'm still super excited about that. Back on topic, though. Those healing hands were...convenient. A little too convenient for my liking, but at least we got to see a (kinda) human Karai, so I loved that. I also loved the continuity nods (Mikey listing what bit him, Splinter's injury) so at least for this episode we can't complain about plot amnesia. Good episode. The episodes in general have been pretty consistent as of late.

they also gave a nod 2 I, monster w/ the "not holding back on a attack" bit during the sparring

Jester
05-18-2015, 03:51 PM
This episode was a big waste of time, in my opinion.
Why so? When you told me yesterday before I'd watched it myself, I thought, "Great in the end of the episode everything is 'reset'. Karai is freed from the mind control....but at the cost of her control of her mutation and she's now again a snake woman on the lamb."

Then I watched the episode, and felt that it wasn't THAT much of a waste. Karai is now back in a humanoid form, able to control her mutation, but still under the Shredder's control and needing to be rescued. Leo learned that he can harness the "Power of the Glow." (points to most of you who will sho'nuff get that reference.) Was it one of the better episodes, no, but it did move the story along....even if it was only a little bit.

JTH
05-18-2015, 04:03 PM
The one thing I didn't understand is why Karai still referred to Shredder as her father when she answered him.

Even brainwashed, I thought they wouldn't go that far.

Jester
05-18-2015, 04:07 PM
The one thing I didn't understand is why Karai still referred to Shredder as her father when she answered him.

Even brainwashed, I thought they wouldn't go that far.
I'll agree. That did strike me as odd.

Werecat
05-18-2015, 04:24 PM
Yes, but it was used in exactly the same convenient (if you like) way as April's powers.

Leo's suddenly...
I'm not against Leo having this ability, I like that it bonds him and Splinter, but it seemed very clumsily done. I found Mikey creating a cure in Parasitica much more believable. And enjoyable.
I agree with this so much. Mikey having to remember the cure, from Donnie, in Parasitica actually made the episode more exciting. I really think TMNT should be using science to solve some major problems. Instead of resorting to Naruto-like magic to resolve issues. Although magic is unexplained science and so science is magical.

I have been searching for the average review of the episode and it is around 8-8.4/10 rating. I question the rating though because the reviewers only gave positive points for preference, what they liked, and ignored plot-holes. I shouldn't really expect hardcore critics to be reviewing TMNT but it helps to actually have someone who knows how to properly review a show isntead of someone giving it a 10/10 just because they liked one scene.

Luckyday
05-18-2015, 06:55 PM
I agree with this so much. Mikey having to remember the cure, from Donnie, in Parasitica actually made the episode more exciting. I really think TMNT should be using science to solve some major problems. Instead of resorting to Naruto-like magic to resolve issues. Although magic is unexplained science and so science is magical.

I have been searching for the average review of the episode and it is around 8-8.4/10 rating. I question the rating though because the reviewers only gave positive points for preference, what they liked, and ignored plot-holes. I shouldn't really expect hardcore critics to be reviewing TMNT but it helps to actually have someone who knows how to properly review a show isntead of someone giving it a 10/10 just because they liked one scene.

Agreed on all points. Even though I really hate this new direction with Karai and the ninja magic cheat code, I still like this episode.

I don't think it's fair to ignore things that were done right and state only the things that were done wrong and even worse to never properly explain why . Sometimes you would even have to put bias aside for your favorite character to see the episode as a whole.
That's the whole point of having constructed criticism.

Jester
05-18-2015, 07:11 PM
I can't believe I forgot to say that I felt Kirby taking April to the lair instead of a hospital was dumb.

ALTHOUGH...at one point Splinter's attempting to help April and it reminded me of the Doku Plant/Gazai Leaf sub-plot from Enter the Fly.

Tarris Vaal
05-18-2015, 07:35 PM
Love Karai being back - although a personal gripe I'm not fond of the snake hands thing personally - just looks off sometimes.

Casey Karai fight good fun to watch, and I liked the little scene with Casey and April at the start. That was a nice touch.

Great to have so many references to previous episodes as well. Nice to know they're not forgotten :)

Would have preferred a bit more of an even spread of focus for the other turtles, (Donatello seemed especially a little subdued given April's condition) but this was always going to be a Leo centric episode - and Leo was cool.

Healing hands thing fine, it had to be introduced somewhere I guess, but I do wonder why Karai didn't just attack Leo midway through the mantra (would that be considered impolite?). It was a little bit of an easy fix, but at least it was shown not to be an automatic heal button (it did take some effort).

All in all a very good episode, but whilst tense in places - for me at least - it could have had more emotional impact. It felt more like this was an episode where Leo learns a new skill, and not so much an episode where Karai is back with the Foot and nearly kills everyone. I dunno, it's like the focus faltered a bit towards the end.

Werecat
05-18-2015, 08:37 PM
Agreed on all points. Even though I really hate this new direction with Karai and the ninja magic cheat code, I still like this episode.

I don't think it's fair to ignore things that were done right and state only the things that were done wrong and even worse to never properly explain why . Sometimes you would even have to put bias aside for your favorite character to see the episode as a whole.
That's the whole point of having constructed criticism.
Indeed, I still enjoyed the episode because there are several things done well. The animation is lovely and the scenes and all that were good. I just think the episode seems a bit detached from previous episodes. It is as if someone new came in and started writing the plots which is what happened and it is noticeable.

How did Karai gain normal eyes again? How did she gain her normal voice back? How did all the turtles get subdued so easily? None of these questions are answered in the episode.

All we know is
Leo is the only one receiving special lessons from Splinter
Why are the other turtles excluded? Not answered in the episode. Instead we must accept Leo as the special one.

Leo is the only one capable of saving everyone
Why is Leo the only one capable of saving others? What makes him better. Is it because he is Splinter's favorite. Why are the rest of the turtles not given the same opportunity to demonstrate their strengths. The story is written in such a way as to disregard all others besides Leo.

Leo is praised by Splinter and his brothers, often remarked as being superior
Splinter said "Being at the edge of your life gave you the power that few martial artists can tap. I am proud of you my son"

Raph said "You kicked footbot butt. Stopped the poison and got us out of there and you did it solo! None of us could have done that"

Now tell me the writer isn't Leo obsessed. He made the rest of the turtles accept that Leo is superior to them. Splinter only gives Leo praise and lessons that provide vital information to overcome life-threatening situations. He forced the whole world to revolve around Leo.

Shark_Blade
05-18-2015, 09:02 PM
Indeed, I still enjoyed the episode because there are several things done well. The animation is lovely and the scenes and all that were good. I just think the episode seems a bit detached from previous episodes. It is as if someone new came in and started writing the plots which is what happened and it is noticeable.

How did Karai gain normal eyes again? How did she gain her normal voice back? How did all the turtles get subdued so easily? None of these questions are answered in the episode.

All we know is
Leo is the only one receiving special lessons from Splinter
Why are the other turtles excluded? Not answered in the episode. Instead we must accept Leo as the special one.

Leo is the only one capable of saving everyone
Why is Leo the only one capable of saving others? What makes him better. Is it because he is Splinter's favorite. Why are the rest of the turtles not given the same opportunity to demonstrate their strengths. The story is written in such a way as to disregard all others besides Leo.

Leo is praised by Splinter and his brothers, often remarked as being superior
Splinter said "Being at the edge of your life gave you the power that few martial artists can tap. I am proud of you my son"

Raph said "You kicked footbot butt. Stopped the poison and got us out of there and you did it solo! None of us could have done that"

Now tell me the writer isn't Leo obsessed. He made the rest of the turtles accept that Leo is superior to them. Splinter only gives Leo praise and lessons that provide vital information to overcome life-threatening situations. He forced the whole world to revolve around Leo.
These are hard, real questions. Come on in Ciro, answer these...

But yeah it boggles my mind why the other brothers didn't ask Splinter to teach them the "healing touch". Donnie in particular would be a far more useful team member in addition to his chemical and medical expertise. Instead, they just stood there by the side and spectating Leo and Splinter training... What the..? :-?

Also, why only now did he taught him? Would be useful for last season when Leo faced Shredder in The Invasion.

Bitsy83
05-18-2015, 09:04 PM
Welp....Might as well get this little mini-review over with.

(If I repeat anything that's already been stated, I apologize. I worked all day and didn't feel like reading all the posts to catch up).

Ok, I know what you're all thinking. Yeah, I couldn't help but feel we jumped the shark as well. I really liked the show better when it was more sci-fi than fantasy, but I suppose we've had spiritual/fantasical elements in TMNT before (Kitsune from IDW and that weird dragon thing from 2k3). And when I watched the show yesterday, I found the "Healing hands" very Deus ex machina as well.

Then I watched it again and I caught something at the very end. Splinter said how Leo "being near the end of his life" is what untapped his healing abilities. Sooooooo....maybe it's NOT as far out of left field as I thought? Both Splinter and Leo were on the edge of death when Shredder faced them, so they both had near-death experiences. I don't really believe in Chakras and stuff like that, but that might be what they're doing here. Having a near death experience is what unblocked a "Chakra" deep within them and they were able to perform that ability, much like how losing your sight causes your other senses to become stronger.

Also, it would explain why it wasn't used before in previous episodes: because Splinter didn't have his near-death experience and his Chakra was still blocked, so he couldn't heal his sons when they were injured. Maybe after he got back in his right mind after his "rat freakout," he started studying the scrolls he had and was able to perform them.

Same goes for Leo. His brothers couldn't tap that ability because they have never been close to death, so training them wouldn't work. And even Splinter said how not many ninjas were able to harness this gift, so....yeah.

Sigh....I miss the days when I could watch an episode of TMNT and not nitpick it to death with logic and reasoning. Maybe that's our problem here, guys: We're watching the show like ADULTS instead of KIDS. In other words, we're using our minds more than our feelings. Remember how silly the OT episodes were, but we didn't care because we loved watching the Turtles fight Bebop and Rocksteady and save April or the city or whatnot? Remember how we didn't let things like how, in "Raphael Meets his Match," Mona Lisa was mutated by the ship's backwash that not only changed her into a lizard, but her clothes as well? Or why Splinter changed into a rat, despite the fact that he said that the mutagen changed you into the last thing you touched and he CLEARLY touched the Turtles?
I swear, adulthood has almost ruined my ability to watch this show.

Still, it had some great moments. I know a lot of people are upset about Karai, but honestly this might be for the best. Not her staying evil, but I have a feeling that when they save her for a second time (like you know they will), she's going to go neutral. I can only imagine what her psyche and emotions are going through. Sure, she accepted Splinter as her father and sees the Turtles as allies, but it's clear the vengeance and hatred that Shredder filled her head with isn't dying down any time soon. I see her leaving the Shredder, but I don't see her joining the Turtles. It'd just be too weird, honestly. I can see her going back to Japan on her own and trying to restart her life and discover who she really is at heart before taking a side. In other words, like Terra from "Teen Titans." She's just gonna root from the sidelines.

Last thing I'm gonna talk about is Kirby. My prediction of Donnie being targeted by Shredder to cure Karai can be canned since Stockman already did that, but I still have a hunch that Kirby is going to make things hard for not only Donnie, but the others as well. I get why he's protective of April, especially after being taken prisoner, mind controlled, mutated, then Kraangified, the dude's pretty close to being 100% done with mutants and ninjas and whatnot. While I'm not sure why he didn't take April immediately to a hospital, he does seem to still trust the guys, but how long will that last? He knows that April was only targeted because she's their ally and Kirby might not want his only child getting more tangled up in the feud than she already is, so that would be reason enough to follow up on my other predicition (Victory Angel, take note):

Kirby will blame the Turtles for endangering his daughter and force April to move out of the city.

This wouldn't be a bad way to bring in Bishop, if he does appear.

Well, this was a pretty big emotional roller coaster. I guess we can start another ship for the Casey x Karai fans (I KNOW YOU EXIST!) and just wait ANOTHER 6 weeks for the next episode or whenever it's going to air.

Bitsy83
05-18-2015, 09:14 PM
These are hard, real questions. Come on in Ciro, answer these...

But yeah it boggles my mind why the other brothers didn't ask Splinter to teach them the "healing touch". Donnie in particular would be a far more useful team member in addition to his chemical and medical expertise. Instead, they just stood there by the side and spectating Leo and Splinter training... What the..? :-?

Also, why only now did he taught him? Would be useful for last season when Leo faced Shredder in The Invasion.

Like I said in my previous post, Splinter said how Leo being near the end of his life helped him obtain this ability. Both Splinter and Leo were on the brink of death, so maybe that has some weird tie in with the healing ability. Like I said, that's what I got from it. (Sorry for repeating myself.)

Luckyday
05-18-2015, 09:17 PM
Indeed, I still enjoyed the episode because there are several things done well. The animation is lovely and the scenes and all that were good. I just think the episode seems a bit detached from previous episodes. It is as if someone new came in and started writing the plots which is what happened and it is noticeable.

How did Karai gain normal eyes again? How did she gain her normal voice back? How did all the turtles get subdued so easily? None of these questions are answered in the episode.

All we know is
Leo is the only one receiving special lessons from Splinter
Why are the other turtles excluded? Not answered in the episode. Instead we must accept Leo as the special one.

Leo is the only one capable of saving everyone
Why is Leo the only one capable of saving others? What makes him better. Is it because he is Splinter's favorite. Why are the rest of the turtles not given the same opportunity to demonstrate their strengths. The story is written in such a way as to disregard all others besides Leo.

Leo is praised by Splinter and his brothers, often remarked as being superior
Splinter said "Being at the edge of your life gave you the power that few martial artists can tap. I am proud of you my son"

Raph said "You kicked footbot butt. Stopped the poison and got us out of there and you did it solo! None of us could have done that"

Now tell me the writer isn't Leo obsessed. He made the rest of the turtles accept that Leo is superior to them. Splinter only gives Leo praise and lessons that provide vital information to overcome life-threatening situations. He forced the whole world to revolve around Leo.

You know that got me thinking how Splinter's relationship with his sons might mirror how his father treated him when he was younger.

Living with the guilt that Splinter's father carried from killing Saki's parent, he felt that he owe him the full devotion of a loving father but doing so had unintentional neglect his own biological son Yoshi, which in turn fueled Yoshi's temper, insecurity and a little bit of sibling rivalry just like how Raph is like right now.

Although Raph's sibling rivalry with leo was probably not nearly as bad as it was with Yoshi and Saki, but it's still interesting in thinking how history repeats itself in two generations. Splinter might even subconsciously see all of his worst qualities in Raph: his temper, his ego, and cynicism while Leo is to Splinter, the son that he wish that he was to own father.

I really hope that time travel will explore the father son relationship since it might be the core of Shredder's inner demons.

Shark_Blade
05-18-2015, 09:20 PM
Like I said in my previous post, Splinter said how Leo being near the end of his life helped him obtain this ability. Both Splinter and Leo were on the brink of death, so maybe that has some weird tie in with the healing ability. Like I said, that's what I got from it. (Sorry for repeating myself.)

That's a nice observation on the near death experience part. :) I have to rewatch the episode again. Cheers. :D

victory_angel
05-18-2015, 09:39 PM
Leo is the only one receiving special lessons from Splinter
Why are the other turtles excluded? Not answered in the episode. Instead we must accept Leo as the special one.

In this incarnation Splinter made Leonardo leader because he is the only one who asked for the position, and he was taught to the spiritual healing technique also because he was the only one who asked. It's not like Splinter and Leo didn't know the others were at the door watching them. At any time, Splinter could have invited them to join or they could have come in themselves and asked to learn this technique. But mostly the sparing match was not so much train Leo, it was more as a means to help train Splinter as he is recovering from the injury Slash gave him.

We do know that the Spiritual Healing thing isn't completely effective, as it doesn't completely heal the wound or injury. It just helps ease the pain and prevents the wound from becoming worse but ultimately the recovery must come from the injured party themselves.

Leo is the prized student and has been in every incarnation, Leo has also been the most spiritually adept of the four. He is also the leader and as such has to learn as an example to his followers but also protect their lives in addition.

When he used the technique it wasn't so much Deos Ex Machina as it was determination.

When April uses her powers yes its Deos Ex Machina, but that only because she doesn't fully understand them or how to control them. So much of the time they burst forth when she is under extreme duress.

But as she learns to harness and control her abilities, they would be less of a deos ex machina.

Leo is the only one capable of saving everyone
Why is Leo the only one capable of saving others? What makes him better. Is it because he is Splinter's favorite. Why are the rest of the turtles not given the same opportunity to demonstrate their strengths. The story is written in such a way as to disregard all others besides Leo.

At that time Leo was the only one capable of saving the others. As leader he had to think of his followers first and himself second. If he let the venom his brothers would be dead and so would he. So in desperation he does turn to that mantra that Splinter taught him and that resolve coupled with his determination enabled him to save the day.

Perhaps in a future episode Leo would train his brothers in this healing technique

How did Karai gain normal eyes again? How did she gain her normal voice back? How did all the turtles get subdued so easily? None of these questions are answered in the episode.

Stockman did something to stabilize and restore her mind, I do agree that is not explained well.

The Turtles weren't expecting Karai as an enemy since they though she was an ally up until now. So it's more a matter of being taken by surprise, particularly Karai makes a game of hunting the Turtles down. Thrill of the hunt and all that.

Also even though Donnie's goes with Leo without question, his mind is still worried about April, his brothers, and Casey, so he doesn't realize anything is wrong with the water before they are poisoned. And by then it's too late.

Werecat
05-18-2015, 10:11 PM
Sorry @victory_angel, none of what you said answered my questions adequately. Most of the TMNT incarnations are poorly written, does that make it right to make Leo a Marty Sue? No it does not. The writer seems to not be interested in writing great character progression for other turtles besides Leo. Instead it is more likely we will get the recycled concept of "Leo saves the day. Is better than all of us. The world will revolve around him." with the writer. This whole "Leo is the best" concept needs to stop.

It is important for Splinter to teach all his students life-saving techniques, and to be leaders. The writer could have included them easily. Instead the writer wrote the world of TMNT to revolve around Leo.

If the show had great character progression for all the turtles no one would be complaining. None of these issues are being made up. The backlash from the fans are just a reflection of the show's content. The show barely lets the other turtles shine, especially Raph.

Raphael needs a plot were he can prove he is a capable leader and independent fighter. Raphael needs a plot that challenges him and forces him to learn other things such as science. Why doesn't Donnie teach them science literacy instead of letting them be science illiterate. The show has its flaws and it needs to change.

Warhorse
05-18-2015, 10:42 PM
Huh. So, from reading the comments on this thread, looks like another dud for the show. Heh, glad I got out when I did. Not worth the aggravation.

CyberCubed
05-18-2015, 10:47 PM
Huh. So, from reading the comments on this thread, looks like another dud for the show. Heh, glad I got out when I did. Not worth the aggravation.

Most people liked the episode, you sound like your cherry picking a few negative comments.

Powder
05-18-2015, 11:24 PM
Huh. So, from reading the comments on this thread, looks like another dud for the show. Heh, glad I got out when I did. Not worth the aggravation.

Why don't you do us a favor & get out of this section too while you're at it?

IndigoErth
05-18-2015, 11:29 PM
Well if it's in consolation, a main downer about the episode for me was knowing what kind of comments some of it was going to prompt online before I even logged on... :ohwell: Cringed at that dialogue at the end.

I mean I can understand where people are coming from, esp Raph's and Mikey's fans, though the hating on Leo because of the writers sucks.

Leo really did learn that skill way WAY too easily out of simple convenience for the plot. In a way I felt like he was kind of shortchanged himself on something that could have been development, even if it's just a little thing like that. I'd have much rather it was something new for him to work on for a while... They all need things they're working on, be it another skill or even just a hobby. (Though I disagree on taking away their signature traits and what they bring to the family by teaching them all science, letting them all be leaders, etc...)

Even if they put Leo some steps ahead, it feels like development of all of them is stagnating right now. Gaining healing skill like it was nothing felt cheap. Cripe, how would someone even remember all the words and hand positions correctly that fast?

Leo's my fave and love any focus on him, but if it's enough that I cringe and expect Leo hate online... yeah, they could have toned that down a little. :ohwell:

Werecat
05-18-2015, 11:48 PM
Well if it's in consolation, a main downer about the episode for me was knowing what kind of comments some of it was going to prompt online before I even logged on... :ohwell: Cringed at that dialogue at the end.

I mean I can understand where people are coming from, esp Raph's and Mikey's fans, though the hating on Leo because of the writers sucks.

Leo really did learn that skill way WAY too easily out of simple convenience for the plot. In a way I felt like he was kind of shortchanged himself on something that could have been development, even if it's just a little thing like that. I'd have much rather it was something new for him to work on for a while... They all need things they're working on, be it another skill or even just a hobby. (Though I disagree on taking away their signature traits and what they bring to the family by teaching them all science, letting them all be leaders, etc...)

Even if they put Leo some steps ahead, it feels like development of all of them is stagnating right now. Gaining healing skill like it was nothing felt cheap. Cripe, how would someone even remember all the words and hand positions correctly that fast?

Leo's my fave and love any focus on him, but if it's enough that I cringe and expect Leo hate online... yeah, they could have toned that down a little. :ohwell:
I was starting to like this version of Leo though until the writers started to revert to the "Leo is the best'' plot. Follow The Leader was a great Leo episode 'cause he realized that his brothers are just as capable as he is. I liked Nick Leo for a bit because he had flaws for awhile. Now those flaws are becoming non existent. Leo is becoming more of a Marty Sue because the writers make plots were the world revolves around Leo.

Vicky82
05-18-2015, 11:55 PM
I mean I can understand where people are coming from, esp Raph's and Mikey's fans, though the hating on Leo because of the writers sucks.



I'm not hating on Leo, he was awesome in this episode :D

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 12:33 AM
Last thing I'm gonna talk about is Kirby. My prediction of Donnie being targeted by Shredder to cure Karai can be canned since Stockman already did that, but I still have a hunch that Kirby is going to make things hard for not only Donnie, but the others as well. I get why he's protective of April, especially after being taken prisoner, mind controlled, mutated, then Kraangified, the dude's pretty close to being 100% done with mutants and ninjas and whatnot. While I'm not sure why he didn't take April immediately to a hospital, he does seem to still trust the guys, but how long will that last? He knows that April was only targeted because she's their ally and Kirby might not want his only child getting more tangled up in the feud than she already is, so that would be reason enough to follow up on my other predicition (Victory Angel, take note):

Kirby will blame the Turtles for endangering his daughter and force April to move out of the city.

This wouldn't be a bad way to bring in Bishop, if he does appear.


That sounds like a possibility.

Kirby has different views towards both boys.

Casey in his mind seems to think of April as a conquest and will only break his daughters heart.

Donnie is alright in his book since he does see April as a person and not as something he wants to get "Chummy" with. However he is only tolerant of it so long as they are just friends.

If Donnie was human, then there wouldn't be much of a problem. But Donnie is a mutant and a ninja besides. Because of this, April's involvement with them as their friend does put her in danger.

And after being captured, imprisoned, mutated, restored, and mutated again he would certainly have reservations about April's relationship with the Turtle's. Particularly if April is targeted because of them.

He brought April to the Turtles because perhaps he knew that was why she was bitten and they would be able to do something about it. Also he figured if Donnie was able to restore his mutation...then maybe he would be able to save his daughter. This is why he was getting so frustrated with Donnie when everything he was trying wasn't helping.

I don't think the Target: Donatello story line is over just yet. As I pointed out, the Shredder in this version isn't the capturing type.

Donnie did reveal in Meet Mondo Gecko that he is developing a Retromutagen for Karai. Stockman was somehow able to restore Karai's mind enough to stabilize her mutation. And the mind control serum is only allowing her to believe what Shredder wants her to believe. And he currently sees her mutation as useful as it makes her more deadly.

However if it comes to his attention that one of the Turtles has the means to reverse mutations... he is going to see that as a threat to his plans as that could eliminate Karai's snake abilities.

So there are two ways to go about this.


Capturing the Retromutagen, and killing Donnie so he can't make more.


This way Shredder can have the Retromutagen as a bargaining chip for his followers. Though the only one he plans on using the Retromutagen on is Karai and that's only once the Turtles and Splinter are eliminated and even then he may want to prolong her mutation to suit his needs.


Destroying the Retromutagen and Donnie


The Shredder may want to keep his daughters mutation as it does make her more deadly then she is as a human. So the fact one of the Turtles can make a substance that can undo mutations, that would be a threat to him. Because that could eliminate any advantages his daughter has as a snake.
And it would give his hench mutants an excuse to disobey (Such as Steranko and Zeck) as most of them want to be human again.

We do know the Turtles would be returning to the Farm House again since we have only had 9 out of the confirmed 13.

Karai was toying with the turtles in this past episode because she wanted to make a game of killing them. As Leo was able to defeat her this last time, the next move is to attack them where they are safest...their home.

Kirby did get rather frustrated at Donnie over the fact that nothing he was doing was working. And when Leo tells Donnie they need to go rescue their brothers and Casey from Karai, Kirby snarls "There's nothing more important then April.

The only reason the Turtles would leave for the farm house is if one of their own was seriously badly injured.

Which could lead April into revealing which boy she truly loves, and she has shown hints that she is leaning towards Donnie. This news would be hard for Kirby to swallow as he does think of her as his precious little girl, and having her dating Donnie would go against everything he can stomach with these mutants.

So yes, he may turn to Bishop and Dirk Savage in a misguided way of getting his daughter to realize she is better off with out Donnie or the Turtles. And it's around this point April reveals that she isn't completely human and that her mother and mothers family were experimented on by the Kraang in order to create her.

Vicky82
05-19-2015, 12:53 AM
Then I watched it again and I caught something at the very end. Splinter said how Leo "being near the end of his life" is what untapped his healing abilities. Sooooooo....maybe it's NOT as far out of left field as I thought? Both Splinter and Leo were on the edge of death when Shredder faced them, so they both had near-death experiences. I don't really believe in Chakras and stuff like that, but that might be what they're doing here. Having a near death experience is what unblocked a "Chakra" deep within them and they were able to perform that ability, much like how losing your sight causes your other senses to become stronger.

Also, it would explain why it wasn't used before in previous episodes: because Splinter didn't have his near-death experience and his Chakra was still blocked, so he couldn't heal his sons when they were injured. Maybe after he got back in his right mind after his "rat freakout," he started studying the scrolls he had and was able to perform them.

Same goes for Leo. His brothers couldn't tap that ability because they have never been close to death, so training them wouldn't work. And even Splinter said how not many ninjas were able to harness this gift, so....yeah.

Sigh....I miss the days when I could watch an episode of TMNT and not nitpick it to death with logic and reasoning. Maybe that's our problem here, guys: We're watching the show like ADULTS instead of KIDS. In other words, we're using our minds more than our feelings.

I swear, adulthood has almost ruined my ability to watch this show.


Good point about the healing thing. It make sense that Splinter and Leo can only do it because they both had near death experiences and that's why Splinter only taught Leo this and why Leo learned it quickly. I guess if the other 3 have a near death experience, Splinter will teach them it too or if he's no longer around Leo will teac them.

I agree with you about people nitpick in this show too much. I don't nick pick but do question them but I don't think about them too much and I focus on the amazing things in the episodes. I watch this show with my heart not my mind.

Werecat
05-19-2015, 01:09 AM
Good point about the healing thing. It make sense that Splinter and Leo can only do it because they both had near death experiences and that's why Splinter only taught Leo this and why Leo learned it quickly. I guess if the other 3 have a near death experience, Splinter will teach them it too or if he's no longer around Leo will teac them.

I agree with you about people nitpick in this show too much. I don't nick pick but do question them but I don't think about them too much and I focus on the amazing things in the episodes. I watch this show with my heart not my mind.
Conscientious stupidity is not something you want to promote in audiences. There are movies/shows that challenge the mind of the viewers regardless of age. People who try to give criticism are just trying to make the show better. Bashing a critic is like bashing a friend who warned you that you had food in your teeth before a presentation.

Speculation is not a good way to reduce complaints either. There is no evidence that Splinter or Leo would have taught the other turtles. All we know is what was presented to us by the episode which was just Leo who saved the day and is praised by all.

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 01:19 AM
Good point about the healing thing. It make sense that Splinter and Leo can only do it because they both had near death experiences and that's why Splinter only taught Leo this and why Leo learned it quickly. I guess if the other 3 have a near death experience, Splinter will teach them it too or if he's no longer around Leo will teac them.

I agree with you about people nitpick in this show too much. I don't nick pick but do question them but I don't think about them too much and I focus on the amazing things in the episodes. I watch this show with my heart not my mind.

Perhaps if Leo feels it could help his brothers, he could teach them how to use the healing hands technique himself. After all the Pulverizer Returns gave them an opportunity to teach each other, and they never considered that option.

Atren
05-19-2015, 01:22 AM
Oh boy, this episode gets 3/10 from me.

There are so many things in this episode that felt so wrong to me and it is hard to actually start. I will avoid repeating all the ranting about healing and how it used other than say I agree with most of them.

That leaves Karai. It seems her fighting skills are degenerating every season. There is no way Casey to do so well against Karai. Her venom seems to be very inconsistant as well. Enough powerful to affect while being diluted in sewer water while not that powerful when directly applied. Also she just watched as Leo did his BS, someone should make her watch ATLA season 2 finale to see how you handle that.

IndigoErth
05-19-2015, 01:32 AM
Maybe there was a lot in the water? In which case I want a extra clip that just shows her there for hours and hours prior to going after anyone, continuously trying to spew venom into that water to make it toxic enough in preparation for her attack. Afterward, her withered form laying there sleeping it off for a while, like a drunk who just spend all night throwing up, before she sets off to go after April.

:tlol:

Commenter 42
05-19-2015, 02:44 AM
Finally a decent episode. The last three left me cold, specifically the mutanimals one. That episode was just, off. Hopefully that writer doesn't return.

Mondo's design is cool, but he was bloody annoying. I know it was a nod to the OT, and I get it, but, STFU Jason. And a roller derby? Why?

Anyway, Ep 18:
Glad to get some tight action blocking, and a return to the main story. The healing effect was pretty cool, and the focus on Leo being a bad ass with that epic fight was great.

The Karai/Jones meeting was perfect. The kiss was great.

Props to the writer and story board artists. Exceptional episode!

JH24
05-19-2015, 03:33 AM
Eugene Son also wrote the 2k3 episode "Scion of the Shredder" which was the ep in Season 4 where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them.

And now in the Nick show he wrote this episode where Karai hunts down the Turtles and tries to kill them. Its kind of funny he wrote almost the same type of episode for two TMNT shows.

Wow, I thought the name looked familiar but I couldn't place it.

No wonder I couldn't shake the feeling the episode reminded me of the 2k3 series. Not sure if that's a good thing.

===

Rewatched the episode again. Just can't get into it. This whole unexpected "healing" thing was implemented horribly. Weakest episode in awhile for me personally. It's a shame as I enjoyed the previous four episodes.

Vicky82
05-19-2015, 04:25 AM
Conscientious stupidity is not something you want to promote in audiences. There are movies/shows that challenge the mind of the viewers regardless of age. People who try to give criticism are just trying to make the show better. Bashing a critic is like bashing a friend who warned you that you had food in your teeth before a presentation.

Speculation is not a good way to reduce complaints either. There is no evidence that Splinter or Leo would have taught the other turtles. All we know is what was presented to us by the episode which was just Leo who saved the day and is praised by all.

I don't really understand what your talking about!

But I haven't been bashing anyone.

But what I can understand that there is evidence that Leo can teach new things to the other turtles, we seen in episodes in the past like Mutagen Man Unleashed, Leo was teaching the other 3 to learn stealth attack also Follow the Leader, Leo wad giving them a training season outside.

there's nothing wrong with Leo saving the day, all the turtles saved the day in previous episodes.

Werecat
05-19-2015, 04:40 AM
I don't really understand what your talking about!

But I haven't been bashing anyone.

But what I can understand that there is evidence that Leo can teach new things to the other turtles, we seen in episodes in the past like Mutagen Man Unleashed, Leo was teaching the other 3 to learn stealth attack also Follow the Leader, Leo wad giving them a training season outside.

there's nothing wrong with Leo saving the day, all the turtles saved the day in previous episodes.
I didn't say you were bashing anyone. It was an example. Devaluing critics isn't good.

---I forgot about that scene on Follow the Leader, they just didn't listen to Leo 'cause they didn't believe in his leadership skills. Still using speculation to answer what the episode should have answered is kinda meh. I mean each turtle deserves some respect as an important character.

The problem isn't Leo saving the day and taking the spotlight for an episode. The problem is Leo's spotlight episodes are becoming disproportionate to the other turtles; outnumbering them and having greater importance to the overall plot.

BubblyShell22
05-19-2015, 07:02 AM
Indeed, I still enjoyed the episode because there are several things done well. The animation is lovely and the scenes and all that were good. I just think the episode seems a bit detached from previous episodes. It is as if someone new came in and started writing the plots which is what happened and it is noticeable.

How did Karai gain normal eyes again? How did she gain her normal voice back? How did all the turtles get subdued so easily? None of these questions are answered in the episode.

All we know is
Leo is the only one receiving special lessons from Splinter
Why are the other turtles excluded? Not answered in the episode. Instead we must accept Leo as the special one.

Leo is the only one capable of saving everyone
Why is Leo the only one capable of saving others? What makes him better. Is it because he is Splinter's favorite. Why are the rest of the turtles not given the same opportunity to demonstrate their strengths. The story is written in such a way as to disregard all others besides Leo.

Leo is praised by Splinter and his brothers, often remarked as being superior
Splinter said "Being at the edge of your life gave you the power that few martial artists can tap. I am proud of you my son"

Raph said "You kicked footbot butt. Stopped the poison and got us out of there and you did it solo! None of us could have done that"

Now tell me the writer isn't Leo obsessed. He made the rest of the turtles accept that Leo is superior to them. Splinter only gives Leo praise and lessons that provide vital information to overcome life-threatening situations. He forced the whole world to revolve around Leo.

Okay, let me give my two cents on all of this:

1. Karai became normal to an extent because Baxter was able to cure her in some form. Remember that she was mutated with a batch of sabotaged mutagen, so it's likely that while she's stil human, she still retains some of her mutant abilities because what Baxter used may not have been a full cure.

2. It may not have been answered in the episode, but my guess is that it's because Splinter asked Leo if he wanted to learn the technique and he nodded. The others could have asked to learn it, but they didn't. Plus, I can see Donnie not taking it seriously because of his scientific mind, Mikey not having the attention span, and Raph not having the patience to learn it. So that's why Splinter taught Leo.

3. Leo is not better than the others. He was able to save them because he knew the technique and the others were knocked out cold because of the venom so they couldn't do it. Leo wasn't totally unconscious as we see him open his eyes and recite the chant.

4. Splinter praised Leo because he was feeling guilty for not saving Karai and stated that he failed, so Splinter gave him praise to make him feel that it wasn't a total loss that Karai wasn't saved and that Leo wasn't a failure, which I loved.

5. The reason the others couldn't have done that was because they were knocked out cold and Leo was able to recite the chant and save himself and his brothers. It doesn't mean they think he's superior above them, but they thanked him for healing them and saving them because they were grateful to be alive.

So that's my two cents on it. Leo isn't better than the others, but he did save them and that's what counts. He is going to be better at them than some things, but that doesn't mean that the others are any less or that Splinter sees the others as any less than Leo. I've never seen him show favoritism to any of them and he treats them all equally from what I've seen.

Meliwen
05-19-2015, 09:24 AM
The problem isn't Leo saving the day and taking the spotlight for an episode. The problem is Leo's spotlight episodes are becoming disproportionate to the other turtles; outnumbering them and having greater importance to the overall plot.
Leo was awesome in this episode, and I thought the way he saved the day was really cool, but like you said, the amount of times it's happened already this season kinda ruins it in a way. The first two seasons I thought were fine, but this one does not share focus as well.

Leo's been the focus or heavily shared the focus in 5 episodes already. Within the Woods, Eyes of the Chimera, Vision Quest, Clash of the Mutanimals, and Deadly Venom. In all the episodes he's come out on top, overcoming disabilities or saving everyone.

Donnie had focus in 2 episodes. A Foot Too Big and Speed Demon.

Mikey had 2 episodes as well. The Croaking and Meet Mondo Gecko.

Raph has 1. Clash of the Mutanimals, wherein it was Leo who saved the day and ultimately learned a lesson. Raph did nothing other than look cool.

So when everyone stands around to tell Leo how great he is and how only he was able to save everyone, however right they are in that instance, it feels like overkill.

2. It may not have been answered in the episode, but my guess is that it's because Splinter asked Leo if he wanted to learn the technique and he nodded. The others could have asked to learn it, but they didn't. Plus, I can see Donnie not taking it seriously because of his scientific mind, Mikey not having the attention span, and Raph not having the patience to learn it. So that's why Splinter taught Leo.

So that's my two cents on it. Leo isn't better than the others, but he did save them and that's what counts. He is going to be better at them than some things, but that doesn't mean that the others are any less or that Splinter sees the others as any less than Leo. I've never seen him show favoritism to any of them and he treats them all equally from what I've seen.
I'm agreeing with you when you say Splinter wasn't wrong with teaching just Leo the healing technique, nor was it favouritism when he was training 1 vs. 1 with Leo, since that was more to train himself rather than Leo. Splinter doesn't favour one son over the other, but the problem is the show doesn't show it that way. If all we see is Splinter and Leo interactions, especially when the plot centers on Splinter's character or it's something more than a pep talk from Splinter when they've done something wrong, then it certainly doesn't help. We see that Splinter and Leo have meaningful interactions. The others not so much, if at all.

TigerClaw
05-19-2015, 09:26 AM
Finally watched the episode through some other means, since Tivo never recorded it.

I thought it was good, I didn't know Splinter had magic healing powers, And now Leo learned it.

Good to see Karai back in a human form kind of.

Electric
05-19-2015, 10:36 AM
I guess I'm in the minority here in that I actually enjoyed this episode more than most of season 3. The show started getting really good in season 1 when karai showed up and now I think season 3 is going to pick up just the same now that she's back.

Karai vs Casey was great, like the banter back and forth and acknowledging their first actual meeting.

While I just want human karai this current form is interesting, and makes her even more of a threat while being able to maintain her human body.

Speaking of that, since she isn't the full human I want, I love how this episode handled her appearance and voice. She sounds completely normal a second, then has her snake voice the next. Her skin fluctuates from normal to pale to scaly, her eyes go back and forth and her teeth randomly switch. It was completely random and without cause and it's PERFECT. She's a mess right now, her mind and her body and its insane and awesome.

The multiple snake shadows for her were a great touch.

The subway terminal scene was amazing. The music was dramatic, karais dialogue was dark and she sounded completely souless and in control. Not to mention her fight with Leo was different and exciting.

Kirby getting frantic was exactly what wed expect, he's lost April so many times that he now even second guesses the turtles and then splinter and is just completely focused on April, and loved how he told them that's how they should be.

Oh, and Leo vs splinter plus slash fight continuity



Only thing I wasnt a huge fan of was the healing, but since they did it, like how they added the line that Leo can do it because of his near death experience.

Metalwolf
05-19-2015, 10:45 AM
Conscientious stupidity is not something you want to promote in audiences. There are movies/shows that challenge the mind of the viewers regardless of age. People who try to give criticism are just trying to make the show better. Bashing a critic is like bashing a friend who warned you that you had food in your teeth before a presentation.

Speculation is not a good way to reduce complaints either. There is no evidence that Splinter or Leo would have taught the other turtles. All we know is what was presented to us by the episode which was just Leo who saved the day and is praised by all.

Here here! :D

It's why I never liked when people on here 'excuse' bad writing by saying 'It's for kids' or 'I just turn off my brain and enjoy it' when all it says is, 'I know the writing is crap, but I need every which way to feel that it isn't, even if it's giving BS excuses for the writers' crappy writing.' It's not 'hating' a show to criticise it (even harshly) it's showing how much you care about it, and not wanting it to risk 'jumping the shark.'

Maybe instead of the mystical healing technique, the venom'cure' for Casey could have been a small amount of 'completed' special retromutagen made for Karai, so it could de-mutate the venom back into whatever human stuff it was.* It would've removed the 'healing hands' woo that half on here don't seem to like, and give us an idea when Karai's mutation plotline is about to end. )

*(Donnie could then use some of Casey's antibodies he produced to help heal his brothers, he wouldn't need to risk using Karai's retro-mutagen on them. Plus they could help April too.)

Luckyday
05-19-2015, 11:04 AM
I'm agreeing with you when you say Splinter wasn't wrong with teaching just Leo the healing technique, nor was it favouritism when he was training 1 vs. 1 with Leo, since that was more to train himself rather than Leo. Splinter doesn't favour one son over the other, but the problem is the show doesn't show it that way. If all we see is Splinter and Leo interactions, especially when the plot centers on Splinter's character or it's something more than a pep talk from Splinter when they've done something wrong, then it certainly doesn't help. We see that Splinter and Leo have meaningful interactions. The others not so much, if at all.

It's definitely one of the problems with not showing and only telling. I know people like to imagine and write out their fanfics but it should be the writers' job in dealing with that because otherwise it's never canonized within the show.

It's when one of reasons why I have a hard time believing April is able to have a relationship with Donnie, which is not stem directly from him being a mutant:x, but because we rarely see them interacting with each other for just the hell of it and not because of any specific reasons or purpose like Donnie working on a retro mutagen or testing her kraang powers.

Although they probably do spend time hanging together but why is that we only see April hanging with Casey when it's not work related?

SophieDem
05-19-2015, 11:11 AM
Honestly, I couldn't really put my finger on this episode.

It was better than other episodes of season 3 but I still miss the level of the previous episodes. I don't know who but someone mentioned the episode started as if one episode was skipped. Agreed :lol: I had to check if I had missed an episode. I can watch them one or two days after they are released.

Anyway, I have mixed emotions. I'm finally happy that they dropped the strong Casey/April/Donatello love triangle as Donnie didn't react as emotionally or worried to April's poisoning as I expected. I think the writers finally brought it down a little. Although, they made Casey a player which was a bit out of character, in my opinion, and I hope only the serum made Karai kiss Casey on the lips. I never expected to see a "proper" kiss on the show. :D I had to watch that moment twice to make sure that kiss was really there. My jaw was hanging like... for two minutes, haha!

I didn't have problem with Leo being superior or developed at all. It just shows how he really improved and gotten stronger. My only problem... learning the healing technique in an instant moment... Please, teach me, master! Wish I could learn that fast in my martial art class. And if Splinter always knew about those mantras why didn't he use them earlier? They could have prevent or solve more trouble. Or maybe I'm just narrow-minded.

Overall, it was a good episode.

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 12:48 PM
Okay, let me give my two cents on all of this:

3. Leo is not better than the others. He was able to save them because he knew the technique and the others were knocked out cold because of the venom so they couldn't do it. Leo wasn't totally unconscious as we see him open his eyes and recite the chant.



Through out Leo's journey, he has been trying to gain confidence and instincts as a leader.
In season 1 he was trying to be a leader like his favorite space heroes character.

season 2 He was trying to be too much like Splinter. And would say "I'm doing what Splinter would want" rather then acknowledging or considering what any of his brothers had to offer or suggest at times.

Season 3 is where he is developing his own confidence and instincts as a leader. He knew there were in a bad situation and if something wasn't done he would be letting his family down. People have been known to do amazing if not impossible things when faced with a life or death struggle. So instinctively he was able to remember that mantra that Splinter taught him and his determination to save his family was enabled him to fight the venom and save everyone.



I'm agreeing with you when you say Splinter wasn't wrong with teaching just Leo the healing technique, nor was it favouritism when he was training 1 vs. 1 with Leo, since that was more to train himself rather than Leo. Splinter doesn't favour one son over the other, but the problem is the show doesn't show it that way. If all we see is Splinter and Leo interactions, especially when the plot centers on Splinter's character or it's something more than a pep talk from Splinter when they've done something wrong, then it certainly doesn't help. We see that Splinter and Leo have meaningful interactions. The others not so much, if at all.

I don't think Splinters talks with the others weren't unmeaningful, they just don't seem as important in the long run. He just has a way of telling his sons exactly what they need to hear whenever they are down.


For example: When Raph is down in the dumps about Slash, Splinter approaches him and tells him not to dwell on what he has lost...but rejoice what he still has. This gets Raph to get up and join his brothers, because yeah he doesn't have Spike anymore, but he still has them.

Or Donnie beating himself up about creating something that could have resulted in his brothers deaths. But Splinter also points out that Donatello also saved everyone with nothing more then his resourcefulness and a stick.

As for teaching the others this healing hands technique.

I think Leo could potentially teach it to the others, but it has to be someone who has the willingness to learn.

However when it comes to the more Spiritual side of things

Mikey-Doesn't focus.

Raph- Can focus, but doesn't have the patience

Donnie- Has the required patience or focus. But he doesn't have the interest because he focuses on more tangible and scientific means of receiving his answers.

Depending on the incarnation, Donnie would be dubious if not have a straight up bias against the concept of the unknown (I.E. If it can't scientifically be explained, then it doesn't exist.)

And in this incarnation that is the reason where Donnie is confused by Splinter at times because Splinter does cite philosophy and practices that are beyond Donnie's mind set. It's not so much that he doesn't take them seriously, it's more they are something he doesn't truly grasp in his way of thinking.

But Donnie has proven that he has gained some interest in concept of the unknown and spiritual practice such as trying to understand and study April's powers. Or citing that deer are messengers of the divine in the Shinto Religion. And he has been known to turn to meditation once all other means of solving a problem are exhausted. So if Donnie learns the healing hands technique, it would be because he honestly wants to learn it and he would approach Leo or Splinter so he can. But it's also going to be something he would struggle with because it does require that he go out side his realm of thinking in order to acquire it.

IndigoErth
05-19-2015, 01:37 PM
It's definitely one of the problems with not showing and only telling. I know people like to imagine and write out their fanfics but it should be the writers' job in dealing with that because otherwise it's never canonized within the show.

It's when one of reasons why I have a hard time believing April is able to have a relationship with Donnie, which is not stem directly from him being a mutant:x, but because we rarely see them interacting with each other for just the hell of it and not because of any specific reasons or purpose like Donnie working on a retro mutagen or testing her kraang powers.

Although they probably do spend time hanging together but why is that we only see April hanging with Casey when it's not work related?
Good point, hadn't given that much thought but, yeah, it does seem pretty darn true that she's never seen just hanging out with him simply to be there with him. :ohwell:

If he turned selfish and evil I could see him secretly re-mutating her father on purpose just so she'll hang out with him again while he works on more retromutagen. :lol:

Mona_Lisa
05-19-2015, 01:40 PM
Well if it's in consolation, a main downer about the episode for me was knowing what kind of comments some of it was going to prompt online before I even logged on... :ohwell: Cringed at that dialogue at the end.

I mean I can understand where people are coming from, esp Raph's and Mikey's fans, though the hating on Leo because of the writers sucks.

Leo really did learn that skill way WAY too easily out of simple convenience for the plot. In a way I felt like he was kind of shortchanged himself on something that could have been development, even if it's just a little thing like that. I'd have much rather it was something new for him to work on for a while... They all need things they're working on, be it another skill or even just a hobby. (Though I disagree on taking away their signature traits and what they bring to the family by teaching them all science, letting them all be leaders, etc...)

Even if they put Leo some steps ahead, it feels like development of all of them is stagnating right now. Gaining healing skill like it was nothing felt cheap. Cripe, how would someone even remember all the words and hand positions correctly that fast?

Leo's my fave and love any focus on him, but if it's enough that I cringe and expect Leo hate online... yeah, they could have toned that down a little. :ohwell:


This is my favorite type of Leo fan!

I was starting to like this version of Leo though until the writers started to revert to the "Leo is the best'' plot. Follow The Leader was a great Leo episode 'cause he realized that his brothers are just as capable as he is. I liked Nick Leo for a bit because he had flaws for awhile. Now those flaws are becoming non existent. Leo is becoming more of a Marty Sue because the writers make plots were the world revolves around Leo.
Same here, I liked this version of Leo, it was my very favorite because he wasn't perfect. But they have taken his imperfections away and made super Leo here. I know Leo is the leader and better student but really? Do we have to make the others miserably fail and always have supper Leo (Or April) come to the rescue?
Don't get me wrong.... I liked most of this episode.... If there wasn't so many Leo centric eps already, and they didn't all gush over him at the end... I'd have no problem with Leo saving the day solo... Because that's awesome, that's in the guys character. But the others could save the day sometimes also....

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 01:54 PM
Good point, hadn't given that much thought but, yeah, it does seem pretty darn true that she's never seen just hanging out with him simply to be there with him. :ohwell:

If he turned selfish and evil I could see him secretly re-mutating her father on purpose just so she'll hang out with him again while he works on more retromutagen. :lol:

Wasn't that one moment as the end of Eyes of the Chimera hanging out without rhyme or reason. And then there is that moment in Within the Woods where Donnie is handing April a slice of Pizza and Casey deliberately climbs over the couch and plunks in between them.

Meliwen
05-19-2015, 02:17 PM
I don't think Splinters talks with the others weren't unmeaningful, they just don't seem as important in the long run. He just has a way of telling his sons exactly what they need to hear whenever they are down.


For example: When Raph is down in the dumps about Slash, Splinter approaches him and tells him not to dwell on what he has lost...but rejoice what he still has. This gets Raph to get up and join his brothers, because yeah he doesn't have Spike anymore, but he still has them.

Or Donnie beating himself up about creating something that could have resulted in his brothers deaths. But Splinter also points out that Donatello also saved everyone with nothing more then his resourcefulness and a stick.

I guess meaningless wasn't the best word to use, since of course, as you said, they were meaningful for Raph and Donnie. I guess a better way of saying it is that Splinter has more talks with Leo that are meaningful to Splinter's own character, than that of the turtles. There's a closer relationship there that goes both ways instead of just one.

Some of the bigger things to happen to Splinter are the Karai, Rat King, and recently here. And in those it was Leo who got the most focus with Splinter, aside from Turtle Temper because that did explore Splinter's character as well as Raph's (maybe it'll get touched upon in the new episode?). I can't really remember other times when Splinter shared things, other than giving them advice, with the other turtles, whether it's a shared importance in plot or in common ground.

It feels like to me that Splinter and Leo are reserved for interacting with each other, like how April was with Donnie, Karai is with Leo, Mikey and Leatherhead etc. Casey has gotten to interact with Donnie and Mikey, and Leo has gotten some interaction with Slash, so those characters aren't interacting solely with just Raph, for example. Which is nice. I just think it would be nice if Splinter was a bit closer with the other turtles too, particularly Mikey. I think he's only ever gotten one talk from Splinter.

Luckyday
05-19-2015, 03:01 PM
Wasn't that one moment as the end of Eyes of the Chimera hanging out without rhyme or reason. And then there is that moment in Within the Woods where Donnie is handing April a slice of Pizza and Casey deliberately climbs over the couch and plunks in between them.

Yes but notice how they were talking over something Kraang related and that last bit is so micro minute.

They probably do hang out together. I just wish that I can actually see it and not having to grab at the smallest of micro interaction.

I swear it getting so stupid on how we get so work up over when April does the slightest thing with either Casey, Donnie or god forbid Raphael.

"OMG did you see the way that April put her hand on Raph's shoulder?"http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/omges1.png
"Yeah I mean she wants obviously wants the D. Duh"http://i.imgur.com/z6HbtNE.png

Jephael
05-19-2015, 03:39 PM
I swear it getting so stupid on how we get so work up over when April does the slightest thing with either Casey, Donnie or god forbid Raphael.

"OMG did you see the way that April put her hand on Raph's shoulder?"http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/omges1.png
"Yeah I mean she wants obviously wants the D. Duh"http://i.imgur.com/z6HbtNE.png

Lets just be glad Ciro didn't go with his original idea having all 4 of the Turtles would be into her.

BubblyShell22
05-19-2015, 04:04 PM
I thought his original idea was to have Raph be into her.

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 04:42 PM
I thought his original idea was to have Raph be into her.

Actually all the Turtles would have their own relationship with her because Splinter was originally supposed to be dead, so April as the surrogate thing they clung to. Raph and April become an item through a shared love of art.

Werecat
05-19-2015, 05:06 PM
Actually all the Turtles would have their own relationship with her because Splinter was originally supposed to be dead, so April as the surrogate thing they clung to. Raph and April become an item through a shared love of art.
Sounds interesting. I really don't like Nick Splinter because he is fit and healthy, why doesn't he just defeat Shredder on his own. The ol' frail Splinter I enjoyed 'cause it gave a sense of mortality to Splinter.

OrangeNinja1987
05-19-2015, 05:33 PM
Was the whole technique with the hands even necessary in the healing incantation?
The arrangement of the fingers seemed specific and necessary, and yet Splinter didn't invent this and he can do it with alternating it a little for having only 4 fingers.
And then Leonardo had to do as best as he could with only 3 fingers. :lol:
I guess that the arrangement of the fingers wasn't all too important and it's just the chanting. Might explain how Leo memorized it so fast.
I didn't have a problem with him remembering so quickly. I just absolutely hate the "all powerful healing" character/technique. IMO, it's one of the worst cop-outs in fiction.

ImmaAxolotl
05-19-2015, 09:12 PM
Also, I doubt that Karai could've produced/reproduced that much venom in such a short time. She already used a lot to poison Casey, April, Mikey, and Raph, but to poison the water of a sewer system? She must be taking some Vitamin 1 bars or something, because that is some out-there venom production!

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 09:31 PM
Also, I doubt that Karai could've produced/reproduced that much venom in such a short time. She already used a lot to poison Casey, April, Mikey, and Raph, but to poison the water of a sewer system? She must be taking some Vitamin 1 bars or something, because that is some out-there venom production!

Maybe she's mind controlled over the some time in between the Clash of the Mutanimals and Meet Mondo Gecko. And then over the mondo gecko she is vomiting venom into a barrel so she can use it to capture and kill the Turtles.

TurtleTitan97
05-19-2015, 09:35 PM
Maybe she's mind controlled over the some time in between the Clash of the Mutanimals and Meet Mondo Gecko. And then over the mondo gecko she is vomiting venom into a barrel so she can use it to capture and kill the Turtles.

I find that hard to believe. The beginning of the episode clearly showed Karai was in her right state of mind before Stockman inserted the worm, and nothing indicated that she had set up all those traps stuff prior to this episode.

But that's just my opinion.

Mona_Lisa
05-19-2015, 09:43 PM
Was the whole technique with the hands even necessary in the healing incantation?
The arrangement of the fingers seemed specific and necessary, and yet Splinter didn't invent this and he can do it with alternating it a little for having only 4 fingers.
And then Leonardo had to do as best as he could with only 3 fingers. :lol:
I guess that the arrangement of the fingers wasn't all too important and it's just the chanting. Might explain how Leo memorized it so fast.
I didn't have a problem with him remembering so quickly. I just absolutely hate the "all powerful healing" character/technique. IMO, it's one of the worst cop-outs in fiction.

I wondered the same thing.... I forgot splinter only had 4 fingers.... But I couldn't figure out how Leo could do it with just 3. Maybe it is just a matter of being "Zen"? (I'm not sure if I'm really using that term correctly)

victory_angel
05-19-2015, 10:30 PM
I find that hard to believe. The beginning of the episode clearly showed Karai was in her right state of mind before Stockman inserted the worm, and nothing indicated that she had set up all those traps stuff prior to this episode.

But that's just my opinion.

It's like that moment in beginning of Never Say Xever that looks like it comes directly after Old Enemy New Friend, even though there are episodes before it.

If you consider events as moments in time rather then one single contained day.

The beginning part of never say Xever could have occurred directly after Old Enemy and then over the days and weeks the episodes are taking place word is spreading among the street gangs to look for a group of giant turtles.

so with Deadly Venom,

Time wise Karai could have been restored and mind controlled between Clash of the Mutanimals and meet Mondo Gecko, while during the events of Meet Mondo Gecko she is setting up the plan to capture the turtles. Such as milking her venom so it can be poured into the sewers in time for Donnie and Leo to arrive. And we are just seeing the order being given and carried out.

BubblyShell22
05-20-2015, 12:25 PM
But if she was mind controlled before then, why did Stockman have the worm placed in her ear at the start of the episode? She was in her right mind at the start, so she didn't plan any of this before the episode began because she even threatened Stockman before he put the worm in her ear as a way of resisting. Maybe the water in the sewers was contaminated already, and she just used her venom to speed up the process of the poison's effects. That's my guess anyway.

As for the hands thing, maybe it just has to do with the chant itself and centering yourself as Splinter and Leo both have to compensate with how many fingers they have. As long as the movements are close enough, I don't think it matters whether it's spot on or anything.

victory_angel
05-20-2015, 01:41 PM
But if she was mind controlled before then, why did Stockman have the worm placed in her ear at the start of the episode? She was in her right mind at the start, so she didn't plan any of this before the episode began because she even threatened Stockman before he put the worm in her ear as a way of resisting. Maybe the water in the sewers was contaminated already, and she just used her venom to speed up the process of the poison's effects. That's my guess anyway.

The event was shown at the start of episode. But that doesn't mean the event is immediate with the start. The events that occur in an episode could take place within a couple of hours at least, but they also can have days in between one event and another.

One such example is the panic in the sewers episode where in the beginning before the opening has Splinter grounding his sons until he feels they are ready to face Shredder. However after the opening them the Turtles are training and Leo says they have been doing this for weeks with out rest.

Time line.
Clash of mutanimals

(Event where Karai is restored to human and mind controlled) Occurs here, event shown on Deadly Venom.

Events of Meet Mondo Gecko
- Of Screen Karai sets up plan to kill the turtles. Studies April's place, how to get in undetected and such. Prepares venom for attack.

You may be on to something about the sewer water already been tainted, but she also said her venom was toxic, so why not add the pollution already in the water also did wonders for it. Though that also goes without saying.

Deadly Venom
-Attacks April while she sleeps.
-Likely watches Kirby take April to the Turtles lair with some satisfaction. (off screen event)
- Hunts down Casey and poisons him.
- (off screen)Hides Casey behind two dumpsters and sets off the SOS signal on Casey's bike. Leaves a couple of bite marks on Casey to make it look like he was poisoned by bite not by kiss.
-Raph and Mikey get signal and retrieve Casey. Donnie and Leo stay at lair to tend to April.
-Raph and Mikey find Casey, and head to lair. Both are poisoned and taken prisoner. (Of Screen) Karai takes Raph's phone and contacts Leo while Raph, Mikey, and Casey are being unloaded from the Foot Van.
-(Off Screen) pours collected venom in to sewer knowing Donnie and Leo would be traveling that way.
- Karai taunts the two of them about how they are suffering from the effects of her venom.
- Determined to save his brothers and friends, Leo starts reciting the Spiritual Healing chant that Splinter taught him earlier. He is able to recover enough to attack (Causing that one Foot Bot to be crushed by Donnie's falling corpse.) and fights Karai.
-Karai is impressed and confused as to how Leo was able to recover but brushes it off as a fluke.
-Karai is defeated by Leo and escapes to destroy the Turtles another day.
-Leo returns his brothers and Casey to the lair and heals them with the Spiritual Healing chant.

BubblyShell22
05-20-2015, 03:04 PM
You could have something there, VA. I never really thought of it that way.

ImmaAxolotl
05-20-2015, 05:02 PM
I agree. I never would have considered that!

NoName999
05-24-2015, 10:25 AM
I can sum this episode in video

OD0v9kvlMOA

I mean good Lord! Where did all this ish come from? Stockman manage to revert Karai to a human (well psychically anyway)? Healing hands?

And Leo's my turtle and even I groaned when he saved the day himself at the end. And when everyone praised him for it. Normally I wouldn't mind, but god damn

snake
05-24-2015, 11:17 AM
The event was shown at the start of episode. But that doesn't mean the event is immediate with the start. The events that occur in an episode could take place within a couple of hours at least, but they also can have days in between one event and another.

One such example is the panic in the sewers episode where in the beginning before the opening has Splinter grounding his sons until he feels they are ready to face Shredder. However after the opening them the Turtles are training and Leo says they have been doing this for weeks with out rest.

Time line.
Clash of mutanimals

(Event where Karai is restored to human and mind controlled) Occurs here, event shown on Deadly Venom.

Events of Meet Mondo Gecko
- Of Screen Karai sets up plan to kill the turtles. Studies April's place, how to get in undetected and such. Prepares venom for attack.

You may be on to something about the sewer water already been tainted, but she also said her venom was toxic, so why not add the pollution already in the water also did wonders for it. Though that also goes without saying.

Deadly Venom
-Attacks April while she sleeps.
-Likely watches Kirby take April to the Turtles lair with some satisfaction. (off screen event)
- Hunts down Casey and poisons him.
- (off screen)Hides Casey behind two dumpsters and sets off the SOS signal on Casey's bike. Leaves a couple of bite marks on Casey to make it look like he was poisoned by bite not by kiss.
-Raph and Mikey get signal and retrieve Casey. Donnie and Leo stay at lair to tend to April.
-Raph and Mikey find Casey, and head to lair. Both are poisoned and taken prisoner. (Of Screen) Karai takes Raph's phone and contacts Leo while Raph, Mikey, and Casey are being unloaded from the Foot Van.
-(Off Screen) pours collected venom in to sewer knowing Donnie and Leo would be traveling that way.
- Karai taunts the two of them about how they are suffering from the effects of her venom.
- Determined to save his brothers and friends, Leo starts reciting the Spiritual Healing chant that Splinter taught him earlier. He is able to recover enough to attack (Causing that one Foot Bot to be crushed by Donnie's falling corpse.) and fights Karai.
-Karai is impressed and confused as to how Leo was able to recover but brushes it off as a fluke.
-Karai is defeated by Leo and escapes to destroy the Turtles another day.
-Leo returns his brothers and Casey to the lair and heals them with the Spiritual Healing chant.
This sounds good. You really should be a writer for the show.

CaliperCat
06-05-2015, 12:17 PM
Also, I doubt that Karai could've produced/reproduced that much venom in such a short time. She already used a lot to poison Casey, April, Mikey, and Raph, but to poison the water of a sewer system? She must be taking some Vitamin 1 bars or something, because that is some out-there venom production!

Maybe she didn't need to use that much venom to poison Casey, April, Mikey, and Raph. With some venomous snakes, it only takes a drop of venom to be fatal, and being somewhat more intelligent than a snake, it's possible she might have more control over how much venom she secretes, or if she secretes any at all. Plus, she has her snake hands, which might independently have their own stores of venom, and her snakes.

I spent a lot of this episode wanting to punt Kirby out of the lair. I understand why he's super protective of his daughter, but these are the fellows that saved all of New York from the Kraang, and transformed him out of his Kirby-Bat state. Have a little faith, why don't you. :roll:

Luckyday
06-05-2015, 06:20 PM
Maybe she didn't need to use that much venom to poison Casey, April, Mikey, and Raph. With some venomous snakes, it only takes a drop of venom to be fatal, and being somewhat more intelligent than a snake, it's possible she might have more control over how much venom she secretes, or if she secretes any at all. Plus, she has her snake hands, which might independently have their own stores of venom, and her snakes.

I spent a lot of this episode wanting to punt Kirby out of the lair. I understand why he's super protective of his daughter, but these are the fellows that saved all of New York from the Kraang, and transformed him out of his Kirby-Bat state. Have a little faith, why don't you. :roll:

Well he kinda did since he went to them first before a hospital.

RenetFan
06-05-2015, 09:48 PM
Creepy, but good episode. I wonder how far Leo will go with his healing powers. I was not expecting that.

billbot85
06-07-2015, 11:34 AM
Finally got to watch this episode on Hulu (takes a while for them to post a new episode). Overall, I thought it was a great episode focusing on Leo. The healing technique was really cool, even though it seemed implausible. Great fight scene between Leo and Karai. I love how Mikey has a lizard plushie with a top hat, and how Casey was basically humming his own theme song while he was riding his bike. :tlol:

Jephael
06-09-2015, 05:51 AM
You know I realized a while back that none of the Turtles mentioned how that healing power would've come in handy at the farm house.

TheMuz
06-10-2015, 06:22 AM
We have a review for The Deadly Venom. I hope you enjoy it!

Talking with Turtles - The Deadly Venom

https://youtu.be/Gwqzi9jJcmA