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Panda_Kahn_fan
05-27-2015, 10:45 AM
I'm a big fan of the 4kids series, and even though I'm a bigger OT fan, this series was a good, serious take on the turtles. Now, I know this is going to make a lot of people here mad, but; was there anyone else besides be who liked the 4kids adaptations of Mirage stories and characters better than mirage versions? Now, don't get me wrong, things like Utrom Shredder were stupid, but there was a lot this series did right;

-Delving farther into Triceriton culture during that story arc. It was this series that made me like the triceritons, not Mirage. It fleshed them out more, and made me like them as characters, rather than 'ohhhh! dinosaur men! cool visual!'

-The alien arc gave us Bishop- a character who, I'm sorry, but was waaay more interesting, complex, and dynamic than Doc Savage knock off Mr. Branuze. I loved how deep o a villain he was, with a motivation to protect the earth.

-Leatherhead. I love how he still has rage issues and problems, but here is a likeable and gentle soul, instead of all over the place like in image or Mirage.

-Baxter Stockman- I love the back story and development they gave this guy, instead of the 'wheee evil's fun!' sicko from Mirage. Watching him decompose like that on screen was both disturbing and tragic, especially after all that he had been through.

-Shredder; Urgh, while I hated this guy being an utrom, I do love that he had more presence and staying power then his mirage counterpart. He actually was a very strong villain, who like his human counterpart in mirage, cast a shadow that continued to haunt the turtles even after he was gone.

-This might shock a lot of people, but the lack of the darker violence and 'shades of grey' surrounding the turtles and their actions is actually something I enjoy here. It's nice to have heroic turtles, and have a sword slash and guy dropping get the message across, instead of grey morality and swords slashes taking limbs off. 4kids had just enough darkness for this 'mature adult's' personal tastes.

Are the mirage versions better as 'works of art'? yes, they probably are. But I actually liked how 4kids gave us a more palatable version of these stories without things like monster turtle and fish lady, a little time traveling girl who's a weird blobby eye-stalk thingie, April the magic drawing, a giant starro rip-off, and some of the other 'interesting' stories I really don't care for.

So, was there anyone else who liked aspects of 4kids better than the comics?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-27-2015, 10:56 AM
I'll give you that a lot of Mirage SUCKED. Especially the guest era.

But I loved the Utrom Shredder. I was fine with it, and I'm also fine with it not being revisited in later adaptations.

But remember, 4Kids had the easy position of taking what worked (or didn't work) from Mirage and making it better. It's easier to improve than to create whole cloth, especially when Peter Laird is looking over your shoulder. So it doesn't really surprise me that characters like Leatherhead, Stockman, Triceratons, etc were improved from their initial Mirage versions.

xbennoda
05-28-2015, 01:53 PM
Oh my Lord Jesus... I have always and still LOVE 4KidsTV for their wonderful job with TMNT during all those years. I love how every single episode was intriguing and... perfect. Everything they did was perfect: voice actors, animation, characters... including the villains. Although they did not include all the characters from the '80s cartoon, they did introduce them in the minority. Little hints there and then. Example, when the utroms were gonna escape TCRI:
Utrom #1: "I hate walking in my tentacles!"
Utrom #2: "Shut up, Krang!"

Little things like that are just incredible to me. :tsmile::tsmile:

Xav
05-28-2015, 02:52 PM
But I actually liked how 4kids gave us a more palatable version of these stories without things like monster turtle and fish lady, a little time traveling girl who's a weird blobby eye-stalk thingie, April the magic drawing, a giant starro rip-off, and some of the other 'interesting' stories I really don't care for.But they did give us a monster turtle it was just Don instead of Raph and they did adapt the fish people story.

Andrew NDB
05-28-2015, 03:00 PM
I'm a big fan of the 4kids series, and even though I'm a bigger OT fan, this series was a good, serious take on the turtles.

http://i.imgur.com/J6IUPOb.gif

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-28-2015, 05:18 PM
http://i.imgur.com/J6IUPOb.gif

Andrew, no disrespect meant to you, but 1.) I hate the mirage comics just as much as you despise the 'kiddie spinoff material', 2.) this version is one that Peter Laird himself approved of, worked with 4kids on, and he is proud of, and 3.) While not as mature as the comics, it's the most mature version of said material that doesn't have the 'grim and gritty grey area' that a few turtle fans really don't care for. Outside of my respect for it for giving us the turtles in the first place, the fact that Mirage is the 'source material', means about as much to me as the hair on a frog's back.

Overall, this brought many of the mirage stories around to a form I could enjoy.

Powder
05-28-2015, 06:25 PM
Why do you have kiddie spinoff material in quotations? That's totally what it is. Don't get me wrong, I love the OT, but that's what it is for the most part.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-28-2015, 06:46 PM
Why do you have kiddie spinoff material in quotations? That's totally what it is. Don't get me wrong, I love the OT, but that's what it is for the most part.

That's exactly what it is; TMNT by focus group, watered down from Mirage. I put it in quotations because I've seen the phrase used over and over as an argument against the cartoons. My whole point is- I really don't care, I like the OT, 2K3, NICK, and IDW (my favoriteversion of all). I've read nearly all of Mirage vol. 1-3, including the Image run, and the original comic does zero for me. 2k3 actually made a version of the Mirage stories I can enjoy.

And this isn't unique for me to the TMNT- I prefer the Timmverse, Teen Titans, Super Friends, and young justice shows to the 'wonderful' source material that is the DC universe with all of it's retcons, reboots, corny resurrections, and bad plot twists.

ImmaAxolotl
05-29-2015, 01:16 PM
To answer your question, yes, I absolutely love this show! I love it more than any other incarnation of the turtles! So many fond memories! This show also inspired me to look for the Mirage versions of the stories (like All Hollows Eve), and I gotta say, the 4Kids stories are much more satisfying, especially the one with the Zoras- I mean, fish people.

Wesley
05-31-2015, 03:34 PM
I haven't read the Mirage Comics (I've looked up summaries of the issues on the Internet, though), but I think the 2003 series is still much better than the original comics. In 03, most of the villains had connections with each other and there were great original characters like Hun and Agent Bishop. The cartoon was more down-to-earth most of the time than the comics.

neatoman
05-31-2015, 04:03 PM
I haven't read the Mirage Comics (I've looked up summaries of the issues on the Internet, though), but I think the 2003 series is still much better than the original comics. In 03, most of the villains had connections with each other and there were great original characters like Hun and Agent Bishop. The cartoon was more down-to-earth most of the time than the comics.

I wouldn't say the 4Kids cartoon is more down to earth, in fact I'd say it's less down to earth. But I will say it does have a much better than the Mirage comics, which could at times be confusing and odd.

Powder
05-31-2015, 04:18 PM
I haven't read the Mirage Comics (I've looked up summaries of the issues on the Internet, though), but I think the 2003 series is still much better than the original comics. In 03, most of the villains had connections with each other and there were great original characters like Hun and Agent Bishop. The cartoon was more down-to-earth most of the time than the comics.

You can't say something is better than something else or more grounded if you've never experienced it for yourself. Anything you have to say is now null & void.

tilallr1
06-01-2015, 09:07 AM
You can't say something is better than something else or more grounded if you've never experienced it for yourself. Anything you have to say is now null & void.

Yeah ... you have to read ALL the comics to make a valid argument that they are worse than the 2003 show.

I stand by the fact that the comics are the originals, and everything that makes the 2003 show great, comes straight out those comics. So to say the 2003 show is better than the original comics is kind of a odd statement and blatantly wrong.

I feel they compliment the comics well, but they are kid friendly. After all, the Turtles are blatantly shown as killers in the comics, which Ninja's are suppose to be and makes it obviously more awesome! ;)

Panda_Kahn_fan
06-01-2015, 02:00 PM
Yeah ... you have to read ALL the comics to make a valid argument that they are worse than the 2003 show.

I stand by the fact that the comics are the originals, and everything that makes the 2003 show great, comes straight out those comics. So to say the 2003 show is better than the original comics is kind of a odd statement and blatantly wrong.

I feel they compliment the comics well, but they are kid friendly. After all, the Turtles are blatantly shown as killers in the comics, which Ninja's are suppose to be and makes it obviously more awesome! ;)

That's the point though, I never said they WERE better, I said I LIKED 4kids better, and asked who else did. I think the posters here agreeing with me just prefer the four kids watered-down versions, over the gittier nad more realistic mirage.

Wesley
06-02-2015, 03:25 PM
You can't say something is better than something else or more grounded if you've never experienced it for yourself. Anything you have to say is now null & void.

Fair enough, Powder.

Prowler
06-06-2015, 07:07 AM
They're both quite different shows, so it's hard to compare. I like both for their strong points. OT for its episodic comedic nature and 4Kids for its continuity and great action sequences.

I can say that the OT's quality was consistent to the very end, though. Whilst the 4Kids series jumped the shark after season 5. The last 3 seasons don't compare to the first 4. OT's Red Sky seasons were much better in comparison.

Panda_Kahn_fan
06-07-2015, 09:45 AM
They're both quite different shows, so it's hard to compare. I like both for their strong points. OT for its episodic comedic nature and 4Kids for its continuity and great action sequences.

I can say that the OT's quality was consistent to the very end, though. Whilst the 4Kids series jumped the shark after season 5. The last 3 seasons don't compare to the first 4. OT's Red Sky seasons were much better in comparison.

Actually, we weren't comparing the OT and 4kids, We were comparing 4kids and mirage.

TMNachoT
06-07-2015, 10:59 AM
I love the 2K3 series!!

Prowler
06-07-2015, 12:11 PM
Actually, we weren't comparing the OT and 4kids, We were comparing 4kids and mirage.
Oh. Well, you mentioned the OT in your first paragraph so I kinda jumped the gun quickly. Should have read the entirety of your post, my bad.

I haven't read enough of Mirage to rate it properly, let alone compare it to other versions.

TheBlueTurtle1
06-07-2015, 12:55 PM
I love the 2K3 series!!

Perfect post right there.:P

Redeemer
06-07-2015, 03:12 PM
Well the comparing what Ive read of Mirage.
I definitely like the Leonardo Micro better (Mirage)
But I think 4kids Return to New York is better.

Danetello
08-04-2015, 05:20 PM
I have attempted to get into the Mirage stuff several times, and I always give up because it's too much hassle trying to figure out where the story is going next with all the random stuff that got thrown in from the guest writers. I read numerous issues of those, and they just didn't feel the same to me. I also hated the black and white; I love IDW's colour version so much more than Mirage. So, I basically gave up on reading the Mirage stuff after a while.
Everything about 2k3 though is really awesome though. It's my favourite on-screen incarnation by far, and that includes the episodes that were adapted from guest stories in Mirage. The 2k3 just tells everything so much better. The only arc I couldn't really get into in the first four seasons was Notes from the Underground and the related stories. I'm not sure why, I just didn't like them that much.

jenna
08-05-2015, 12:36 PM
I think that as with any tmnt incarnation, 2k3 did some things brilliantly and some things not so brilliantly. For example, as you say, the Triceraton material was better than in Mirage. However, some arcs based on Mirage didn't even come close to the originals in quality, such as City at War.

Mirage was phenomenal at times and sucked at times. 2k3 was awesome in parts and gob-sh!te awful at others. The same can be said of all tmnt incarnations. Even the Steve Barron film - which many hold as the superior version of tmnt - had Danny! ;)