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Powder
05-27-2015, 10:41 PM
The old live action flicks each introduced their own new (human) characters. There's Tokka & Rahzar too, of course, but I'm not including them for the sake of this poll/discussion. What did you think of these characters then & now? Do you like them all? Is there one in particular who sticks out for you? I imagine Tatsu will get the popular vote, he's one kick ass dude. I'd like to see any/all of these folks return, I genuinely enjoy every one of them. Less so Walker, but still.

It would seem the rights to these characters belongs to Golden Harvest or New Line, whoever it was that created them, which is a shame given we'll probably never see them again. Tatsu would be a great addition to the IDW universe.

I thought about adding Chief Sterns & Charles Pennington to the poll but they didn't really have parts in the way that the others did. They weren't key players.

Leo656
05-27-2015, 10:55 PM
I liked all of 'em just fine, I thought they all fit their role in the movie's story perfectly, and were well-acted and executed. Just about everybody's got their own little arc in it, they all have a little mini-story in it, it's neat. Definitely a great example of juggling a rather large cast of characters WITHOUT making it feel bloated or cramped. It all felt very organic, and the movie's running time just flies by despite there being so much going on. Nowadays you hear a character is added to the newer movies, and it's like "Ugh, no room for the Turtles," but that's because we've been trained to expect poor execution. If you sit and count the characters in the original film, it's rather large. But nobody looks at it that way, because of the excellent pacing. It's great.

(Just because I *have* to get this in whenever I can, "Young Guns" is another movie that's awesome at juggling a hundred wonderful and colorful characters over a breezy two hours and making it look easy. I think every writer or director who wants to do a movie with an "ensemble" cast should HAVE to watch that movie as a study guide. No bullsh*t. But TMNT 1990 wouldn't be a bad one to look at, either.)

Anyways, Tatsu stood out the most for me. He comes off as a serious bad-ass (in a movie where Shredder is goddamn Darth Vader... ponder THAT :lol:), and he even has his own little arc. You see his pride when he looks over the army he and Shredder have assembled. You feel his failure when Shredder berates him for the Foot coming up short against the Turtles. You hate him for beating one of his own students to death (I go with the story as originally written, not what it was clumsily-edited to be in the final cut :trazz:), but you kind of understand how he feels. His end was rather unceremonious, and they pretty much only tacked him into the second one so there was SOME link to the first (seriously... that's it... take away Tatsu and the two movies are set in completely different universes! NOTHING else is the same! :lol:). But for a secondary villain in a movie loosely-tied to a kids' cartoon, it is SUCH a bigger and deeper character than it had any right to be. He could've been Otis from Superman, just as easily, y'know?

I also felt like he fits rather neatly into the TMNT canon. It's like he belongs there, he doesn't feel forced-in. I didn't know anything about Mirage so I didn't know if he was ever in the comics or not, but I was kind of annoyed to find out he wasn't.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-27-2015, 10:55 PM
I wish this poll had a multi-choice option. I liked almost ALL of them except Danny. Thought he was a total douche for "ratting" out April after seeing the turtles at her place. He must've known the Foot would go after anyone associated with them as well as the turtles themselves, but he decided to suck up to his "new family" instead of keeping his mouth shut and protecting the people around him.

Other than that, I found reasons to like all of the others. Perry and Walker are my two favorites off he list, in spite of most fans treating Walker as a "generic" villain. He was a war-mongering merchant playing both sides, which to me is FAR more interesting than Shredder's motivations, to be honest. Perry was cool just for the fact that he encountered the turtles and didn't freak out like everyone else, and was willing to help them just to take down Shredder when he barely knew them. Keno was- well for a teen who happens to study martial arts (Okay, I'll admit it- it was awesome because he was played by Ernie, whom I admire.) he was pretty bada$$, and helped the turtles, unlike Danny. Kenshin, Norinaga, and Mitsu had an interesting story, and even Tatsu made for a memorable second-in-command.

Leo656
05-27-2015, 11:00 PM
Aww c'mon, he was a kid! Kids are stupid! I mean, yeah, to say "he was a douche", that's not wrong, exactly. But that's his arc! He's a douche, he goes through some things, makes a few bad decisions, learns the error of his ways, and then, a NOT-Douche! That's the journey, maaaaan!

Cryomancer
05-27-2015, 11:21 PM
I don't think anyone straight up dislikes Tatsu. He's cool, he'd be a perfectly fine "import" into other canons, etc. Simple and effective character with good presence.

I like Perry quite a bit, but mostly just because of the non-implemented scene idea they had of revealing him to be an Utrom. Nothing in the movie makes this impossible, it's great. Makes watching the movie over again worth it just to think of him as an Utrom the whole time.

CyberCubed
05-27-2015, 11:42 PM
I can't make up my mind about Keno. On one hand he blatantly has Casey Jones role in the movie (you can tell the original script probably had Casey in those scenes, just re-written), but as a kid I didn't mind him.

I don't know, the actor played his part well and he has some funny scenes. Still feels really weird to see a pizza delivery boy given such a huge role in a TMNT movie.

Shark_Blade
05-28-2015, 12:10 AM
Walker.

He has amusing personality. How he ran back to get his bird cage during his escape. So dramatic when he intimidated April (who they assumed was a witch and everyone feared her). His demeanor and negotiation with Lord Norinaga among other things. :tlol:

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 12:16 AM
Um, Cubed- did someone knock you over the head or something? How can you think that was supposed to be Casey in those scenes, when it was clear he was meeting them FOR THE FIRST TIME! Also, Casey was never a pizza delivery boy AFAWK. Or practiced martial arts. Nothing in that role fit with Casey's character. If anything, he was meant to replace Danny.

And of course he played it well- Ernie Reyes Jr. was competing against ADULTS in tournaments at the age of 8. And was in acting from about the same age. Last Electric Knight? Red Sonya? Ever hear of those? Yeah, I remember Ernie from when he was still just a kid doing martial arts in movies and TV.

Powder
05-28-2015, 12:19 AM
He clearly stated "re-written". Take away the first encounter & pizza boy angle, & the role could've been Casey's. Totally works.

Leo656
05-28-2015, 12:19 AM
He RUINED "Red Sonja"! F*** that guy right in the ear!!!

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 12:24 AM
Aww c'mon, he was a kid! Kids are stupid! I mean, yeah, to say "he was a douche", that's not wrong, exactly. But that's his arc! He's a douche, he goes through some things, makes a few bad decisions, learns the error of his ways, and then, a NOT-Douche! That's the journey, maaaaan!


Yeah, I don't buy it. I don't care HOW pissed you are at your dad for- WHY was he mad, again?- there is NO excuse for basically kicking your own family to the curb in favor of a bunch of thugs that you barely know, who are led by some guy whose idea of "family" includes a subordinate beating the crap out of the students, chaining a rat to a fence and leaving him there to die, and torching a friends building.

Leo656
05-28-2015, 12:28 AM
Kids are stupid!
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MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 12:34 AM
He clearly stated "re-written". Take away the first encounter & pizza boy angle, & the role could've been Casey's. Totally works.


I saw no evidence of rewrites of the character, Casey-centered or otherwise. Not to mention they made a point of rehashing the backstory to explain everything to him, they had TWO "first" encounters (the one in the shopping mall, and the one when he spotted Raph's foot in April's apartment) AND he was supposed to get recruited into the Foot! Casey would not have been able to pull it off- they already knew who he was. Plus, it happened RIGHT after the first one, so Casey would have already known them, leaving no reason for any of the "first encounter" stuff OR the backstory. Presumably, he would have already learned it while they were on the farm. (That, and Shredder was still in the dump when they came back up to her apartment- in SPITE of the fact she should have still been looking for a place after such a short time....)

With so much of the movie devoted to giving Keno a connection tot hem, there's NO way that was supposed to be Casey's role. It was obviously Danny's role. Casey was just- busy elsewhere. Maybe he was at his regular job.

He RUINED "Red Sonja"! F*** that guy right in the ear!!!


Pfft- says YOU!! I loved him in that! Despite the fact he was basically a little spoiled brat in it. But he got some of the BEST lines in the movie, and had some pretty cool action/fight scenes, too. "Why does she fight so hard? She doesn't want to win." BEST. LINE. EVER!!

Powder
05-28-2015, 12:41 AM
You're just gonna have to agree to disagree. With literally everyone here. :tlol:

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 12:42 AM
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Stupid, maybe (I'd debate them being THAT stupid), but THAT was just- flat-out ass-hattery and being a spiteful, ungrateful jerk who didn't give two craps about consequences or hurting others. I means seriously, what did he THINK would happen after he told Saki about them?! They'd go to her place and talk over tea?!

Leo656
05-28-2015, 12:44 AM
But he learned a lesson! You're allowed to start off as a complete twat as long as you learn something before the end credits, that's storytelling.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 12:47 AM
You're just gonna have to agree to disagree. With literally everyone here. :tlol:


Why? Where's the evidence for it being Casey's role? Danny makes more sense as the one being replaced. Age, for one. Keno was more or less the same age (maybe a bit older), so he still fit into the "teen-sidekick" mold. Just from the movie's plot alone, it seems clear that Keno was supposed to be the "new kid" in the fold. Complete with jokes about Splinter's effects on people meeting him. And the requisite freak-out the first time someone sees them. (Though oddly enough, Casey never did that.)

pennydreadful
05-28-2015, 12:50 AM
I'm pretty boring - I liked all of the original characters back then and still like them just as much now. :tsmile:

I voted Danny as my fave cuz I liked his arc, thought the part was really well-acted and believable and hey, the kid needs some love. :lol:

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 12:56 AM
But he learned a lesson! You're allowed to start off as a complete twat as long as you learn something before the end credits, that's storytelling.


Yeeeahh.... Still hated him. Kind of felt like THAT lesson came too little, too late. He was old enough to know what he was getting April (and possibly his dad, given the frequency he was over there) into. I mean, he LITERALLY almost got them all killed! Because he wanted to kiss up to- Shredder??!! When he saw Mikey under the table in the reflection, he should've put two and two together, and figured out that she was their friend, and that it would get her hurt. Unless he just WANTED to get her place trashed- which is pretty douchy/uncaring/callous anyway, since he was pissed AT HIS DAD, not April.

ProactiveMan
05-28-2015, 01:09 AM
I wanted to vote for Professor Perry, but Tatsu is just too cool.

David Warner makes Perry so likeable that you forget the character was attempting to cover up gross industrial malfeasance. If sheer charisma doesn't smooth that over, all ill feeling will melt away upon watching him dance to the Ninja Rap. Go go go go...

Tatsu still wins though - I especially like the scene where he goes ape and viciously beats the foot soldiers, just because Shredder glared at him in a disproving way. Then there is a slight look of remorse/shame on his face when he realises he went too far an killed(?) that one kid. It pulls him out of comic book villain territory and makes the whole affair seem more real.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 01:13 AM
Heh, absolutely! I love Warner in almost anything he does, actually. that's why I wanted a multi-vote on the poll, because I was going back and forth between him and Walker. Tatsu was cool, too, but just didn't have many lines, and I wanted to see more of who he really was. Although I DID like how he tried to take over the Foot in SotO.

CyberCubed
05-28-2015, 01:44 AM
I saw no evidence of rewrites of the character, Casey-centered or otherwise.!!

Re-write the opening scene and the time when Keno meets the Turtles for the first time, and otherwise his role is exactly the same as Casey's.

Had Casey been in the movie instead, virtually everything would have been the same except the opening and the scene where Keno first meets the Turtles at April's apartment.

The Raph/Keno scenes with them going undercover to the Foot was Casey jones exact role.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-28-2015, 02:13 AM
Um, no, it wasn't. Keno's role encompassed nearly a third of the movie, and MOST of it dealt with either INTRODUCING him to them, or his infiltration of the Foot! As I said before, Casey could NOT have gone undercover to get recruited by the Foot. They already KNEW who he was! The minute he walked in there, they would have been all over him like flies on a turd, and the turtles never would have learned that Shredder was still alive- or else HE would have been the one captured instead of Raph. Having Casey in that situation makes no sense at all, because he couldn't pull it off. Not the fighting (he didn't know any martial arts, which is what they were looking for) he was too recognizable, and too old to be able to join. (They wanted mostly teenagers, which Keno EXPLICITLY stated to the turtles.)

Casey does NOT work in that movie, because he's all wrong for the infiltration, which was a major plot-point in the film. So was Keno's introduction to the turtles, for that matter. And his participation in the final fight in the club. "I learn that from a rat." Where does Casey even REMOTELY fit into that scenario? Just because he's friends with Raph??!! The only reason Raph was along was because he had agreed with Keno getting himself recruited, while Splinter had nixed it as too dangerous. But of course, Raph being the hot-head he is, has to go behind everyone's back. You'd have to rewrite HALF the friggin' movie for that to work, which would negate the entire infiltration, the backstory redux, and the intro(s)- not to mention Splinter telling Keno that he had the youth to fight but not the experience the turtles had. Casey wouldn't have needed that "lesson". There's NOTHING in the movie to suggest Casey could have taken that role- unless you rewrote the ENTIRE movie. And then it wouldn't be the same movie. They used a kid because the movie needed a "teen sidekick" to appeal to kids.

pferreira
05-28-2015, 12:51 PM
I voted Jordan Perry because David Warner makes him quirky but sympathetic enough for us to like him.

CyberCubed
05-28-2015, 01:54 PM
Um, no, it wasn't. Keno's role encompassed nearly a third of the movie, and MOST of it dealt with either INTRODUCING him to them, or his infiltration of the Foot! As I said before, Casey could NOT have gone undercover to get recruited by the Foot. They already KNEW who he was!

The Foot in the second movie were mostly new recruits. Its also not like everyone saw Casey's face in the first film.