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ZariusTwo
01-22-2016, 01:20 PM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/22/dc-comics-to-relaunch-everything-with-1s-again-this-summer-with-a-filmtv-bent/

:lol:

And yeah, all of this is to create more synergy with the movie branding it seems.

Amaranthus
01-22-2016, 01:21 PM
Why are comic books so complicated?

Candy Kappa
01-22-2016, 01:23 PM
I'll take 70 years of canon over the continuous rebooting and relaunching, and especially the whole "nothing is canon anymore, let's make a million nr1's".

MikeandRaph87
01-22-2016, 01:33 PM
I thought it was a joke and expected to see April 1st on the original post. I read DC was going to look into what series it could double up and go bi-weekly on. The mindset was the best selling titles would sell twice as much. I remember the two titles I read being among the mentioned. New number ones without a continuity reboot?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-22-2016, 01:34 PM
Oh for fvck's sake... :trolleye::tgrumble:

The Deadman
01-22-2016, 02:00 PM
This is why I never got invested in comic books.

TurtleTitan97
01-22-2016, 02:01 PM
So in other words, DC is pulling a Marvel? Oh joy...

Candy Kappa
01-22-2016, 02:34 PM
All-New all different.


Again...

ZariusTwo
01-22-2016, 02:53 PM
And the first major change as a result of this relaunch is Scott Synder is stepping down from the main Batman title, but will remain attached to the character as he is turning back to Detective Comics

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/22/scott-snyder-to-leave-batman-for-detective-comics/

And this was just tweeted by Didio and Jim Lee

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/CZWmORAWcAEl54H.jpg

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/22/ooh-look-at-what-dc-comics-dan-didio-has-just-tweeted/

Bry
01-22-2016, 03:51 PM
are you kidding me

Seriously, if the New 52 didn't really pan out in the long run, can we just go back to Pre-Flashpoint already? Keep what works and restore a better universe with some decent history and depth? That seems like a better option than rebooting every 5 years.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-22-2016, 05:17 PM
Scott Snyder is the ONLY writer I read in the New 52 consistently.

Birds of Prey was great while it had Starling; Nightwing and Grayson are okay; some of Detective Comics was good...

But only Snyder is amazing. Because he kept carrying on, reboot be damned.

plastroncafe
01-22-2016, 05:40 PM
Friends have told me for ages to drop Marvel and read DC, and I've tried... But as soon as I find something I like they cancel it.

I felt bad during the Nu 52, because I realized they were rebooting to get people like me to read. Folks not familiar with their books. But... They just didn't speak to me.

This time, so not my fault.

CyberCubed
01-22-2016, 05:42 PM
And this folks, is why I don't read comics outside of TMNT and Usagi Yojimbo.

I'll stick to the cartoons. Its amazing how nowadays cartoons are much better than comics. Thank god I have my cartoon shows. :lol:

Cryomancer
01-22-2016, 06:21 PM
So in other words, DC is pulling a Marvel? Oh joy...

DC does this stuff way more often

Leo656
01-22-2016, 07:44 PM
People don't get it, it didn't used to be like this. DC was great about consistency for years, they had ONE major reboot in 75 years, back in '86. Sometimes individual characters would have backstories "tidied up" or old stuff would be swept under the rug but all this recent retcon/reboot sh*t is 100% Dan DiDio and his cronies, who make every editorial decision based on Sales Panic. That guy is like the single worst thing to EVER happen to DC as an entity.

Anyone trying to get into reading DC comics would have no problem doing so if they ignored most everything before "Crisis on Infinite Earths", used that as a starting point, and just followed the company's line from 1986 through 2010. Everything between that is really not at all complicated, although a lot of stuff in the late-90s simply wasn't very good but it was still consistent and recognizable. None of the stuff they did in between like Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis really had a huge effect on any continuity, mostly just minor tweaks to things readers already knew but nothing world-breaking. And most people don't need to bother with anything pre-1986, anyway, the Silver/Bronze Age was pretty unrelentingly silly and all the best stuff is easily found in TPBs, and the rest is junk best left ignored anyway.

Point is, DC really DID have a great universe, and a great mythology, that really anyone should get into and enjoy, BUT that Universe starts at Crisis and dissolves at the end of Flashpoint. But you really can't go wrong with the 25-year run in between. They've done nothing at ALL since 2010 that I've enjoyed, but I still highly encourage anyone to check out the "real" DCU from 1986-2010. For one thing, all the cartoons everyone jerks off to borrowed 99% of their stories from the books of that era, so if nothing else it's worth it to see where those stories first came from.

The constant shift towards "It's not selling? REBOOT!" since about 2005 is all DiDio. The editors and not the writers have been steering DC the wrong way for a decade, because ALL they care about is beating Marvel in sales which means "Events, Reboots, and Mega-Deaths of Major Characters" because that's supposedly what pushes sales. DC's sales have NEVER actually supported that theory, but it's the one DiDio subscribes to and what every new direction is based on.

Comics would be more fun if they weren't now a business aimed at only at selling action figures. That's really all they are anymore. It's 100% profit-driven and not story-driven. Both companies are guilty of it, but Marvel was actually run (into the ground) by a toy company for a years and years, to the point people got used to it, and plus the writing hadn't been that company's focus in decades, anyway, they've always been more a "Superstar Artists on Big Event Books" comic company than a story-driven one. DC's line was always more story-driven, and once it became all about the Big Events that was the end. It took them so far away from what they were actually about as a company and the way they did super-hero books. Now they're literally no different from Marvel, and not in any good way.

So yeah, f*ck modern DC. If they're doing anything other than, "Just kidding about Flashpoint and the New 52, we're just pretending everything since 2009 never happened!", it's not worth the effort.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-22-2016, 07:44 PM
Friends have told me for ages to drop Marvel and read DC, and I've tried... But as soon as I find something I like they cancel it.

I felt bad during the Nu 52, because I realized they were rebooting to get people like me to read. Folks not familiar with their books. But... They just didn't speak to me.

This time, so not my fault.

Try New 52 Birds of Prey. Starling was an amazing character I think you'd like...

CyberCubed
01-23-2016, 05:25 PM
I know Batman will largely go untouched (like when New 52 launched), but they need to go back to Jason Todd being dead and Damian being gone entirely. Bringing Damian back to life and giving him super powers was the dumbest thing I've seen in some time. Two dead Robin's coming back to life, can you be more creatively bankrupt?

Go back to the Nightwing and Tim Drake scenario. As for Barbara I'm conflicted because I like her as Batgirl but wouldn't mind her being Oracle again either.

mrmaczaps
01-23-2016, 06:10 PM
are you kidding me

Seriously, if the New 52 didn't really pan out in the long run, can we just go back to Pre-Flashpoint already? Keep what works and restore a better universe with some decent history and depth? That seems like a better option than rebooting every 5 years.

Amen dude. The dcu prior to Flashpoint had its downside with all the dead characters they didn't want to bring back, but it was and is still leaps and bounds better than this crap they are publishing now. Crew cut Superman. BatIronMan. Green hoodlum Lantern... ugh.

Some books have worked, like Batman.... but nearly everything else I could do without.

The TV related series have all been great. Flash, Arrow and the long cancelled Smallville and a few others....

DC has become too dark and no history. Flash and no bang. It's like a drumstick that's all fat... it smells yummy but even the dog won't eat it...

tmnt transformer
01-23-2016, 06:36 PM
Geez. Normally, I don't read DC comics, so I usually can care less, but seriously? I thought the new 52 was suppost to be soooooo great. Frankly, I think they should just reprint all their old issues starting with action comics #1. That way, they would have at least 75 years worth of good comics. (Same with marvel with Capt. America #1. I only collect pre 2001 marvel comics.)

TurtleTitan97
01-23-2016, 06:46 PM
DC does this stuff way more often

Not to the extant Marvel does.

Let's take a look over some of the "creative" decisions that have been made over Marvel thanks to the films. Nick Fury being replaced by Nick Fury Jr. who just happens to look like Samuel Jackson, Scarlett Witch and Quicksiliver no longer mutants, the sudden focus on the Inhumans, etc. See where I'm going with this?

I can't recall the last DC character whose backstory and characterization was heavily modified to match up with either their cinematic or television counterpart.

Leo656
01-23-2016, 08:01 PM
Well, when Superman Returns (and more specifically, the Richard Donner Cut of Superman II) were released, the comics started tweaking everything Krypton-related in the mythology so that it resembled Donner's "Giant Ice Chandelier" version, and Superman briefly had an S-shield belt buckle like in "Returns". But it didn't really take, partly because the Superman comics and movies have never had anything in common anyways. It was a superficial change that went away very quickly.

And they also made Batman's costume black after the movie did it, but that took a couple years, and, again, wasn't permanent.

Huh. Yeah, DC really hasn't ever made a huge deal about the comics resembling the movies. They try it sometimes for like two months and then just stop. Comic readers, historically, don't respond to it, usually because they specifically prefer the comics over the other media and resent things from the movies/TV shows being awkwardly forced in.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2016, 10:33 PM
I know Batman will largely go untouched (like when New 52 launched), but they need to go back to Jason Todd being dead and Damian being gone entirely. Bringing Damian back to life and giving him super powers was the dumbest thing I've seen in some time. Two dead Robin's coming back to life, can you be more creatively bankrupt?

Go back to the Nightwing and Tim Drake scenario. As for Barbara I'm conflicted because I like her as Batgirl but wouldn't mind her being Oracle again either.

Dick Grayson died and came back, too. Three Robins.

Stephanie Brown died and came back as well. FOUR Robins.

Leo656
01-23-2016, 10:35 PM
Stephanie wasn't really dead, though, she faked it (in a bad retcon, but still).

As for Grayson, I can't stress enough that nothing from New 52 counts in any meaningful discussion. If even 1% of it is still being referenced as canon in 10 years, then fine, we can start maybe acknowledging some of it. Until then it's nothing but a rancid abortion.

CyberCubed
01-23-2016, 11:38 PM
How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.

MikeandRaph87
01-23-2016, 11:48 PM
How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.

You are correct. He traded the Spyral spy agency for membership in the Court of the Owls. DC has not know how to write Dick Grayson. Nothing ever sticks with the character that has the greatest potential in its stable of characters.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dick-grayson-assumes-a-new-role-in-robin-war-2

Leo656
01-24-2016, 12:02 AM
The problem is, the only natural progression left for Grayson is to become Batman, and to do that, Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and they won't ever do that "for reals". It's frustrating, in that Grayson is a "legacy character" two times over, who has outgrown his prior legacy entirely (Robin) but can't fully grow into his other destined role (Batman) because the rule of comics says that the status quo must always be maintained, which means Bruce is never going away for any real amount of time, so Dick will never really get to replace him.

I liked the little experiment they tried with it a few years ago, but for one thing, it was too short, and secondly, it should have been Dick and Tim as Batman and Robin, not Dick and Damien, as Damien should never have existed in the first place. I was really looking forward to seeing Dick and Tim as Batman and Robin, as it was the next logical step for everything involving those characters, and with the two being step-brothers (as well as Dick seeing Tim as an equal, whereas Bruce has never seen any of his partners as equals) it would have given the Batman/Robin partnership a fresh new dynamic. Instead they did what they did instead and it was underwhelming. They had to rush Bruce back into the picture because of sales panic, and forced Damien into it because... I'll never understand why. Either way, good set-up, flat execution.

But yeah, since they don't know what to do with Grayson, they keep trying to just kill him or sideline him. Or just write him completely out of character to justify whatever new "role" they want him to fill. It's frustrating.

Commenter 42
01-24-2016, 12:26 AM
Hopefully Superman gets his undies back along with the traditional costume.
I also hope John Romita Jr is rebooted, or just simply booted from the book.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-24-2016, 12:52 PM
How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.

To everyone except Bruce, he was dead for close to 2 years, I think.

Funny thought: the New 52 Reboot is INCREDIBLY SEXIST. Think about it... of Batman's extended family of sidekicks, there are four guys and four girls:

Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne
Barbara Gordon, Helena Bertinelli, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown

The four guys survived with most of their preNu52 histories intact--but the girls? Not at all. Pretty much wiped clean and turned into blank slates.

Because apparently you can fit four Robins into five years, but four Batgirls? Hell no. :trolleye::tgrumble:

Turnstone
01-24-2016, 01:26 PM
I was hoping this thread meat that they were going back to pre-flashpoint with the old number system. I'm bummed I can't own a copy of Action Comics #1000.

plastroncafe
01-24-2016, 01:31 PM
Try New 52 Birds of Prey. Starling was an amazing character I think you'd like...

So I can get into it right before it's completely rebooted...again?
Nah, I'm good.

Not to the extant Marvel does.

Let's take a look over some of the "creative" decisions that have been made over Marvel thanks to the films. Nick Fury being replaced by Nick Fury Jr. who just happens to look like Samuel Jackson, Scarlett Witch and Quicksiliver no longer mutants, the sudden focus on the Inhumans, etc. See where I'm going with this?

I can't recall the last DC character whose backstory and characterization was heavily modified to match up with either their cinematic or television counterpart.

That's probably because with the exception of Batman....DC movies haven't been as widely received as Marvel's have been.

Nick Fury being Sam Jackson was something that was suggested in the Marvel Ultimate Universe before Sam Jackson played Fury in the MCU.

But yeah, I'll never get why the Big Two just don't embrace movie tie in comics, rather than reshaping their entire continuity to reflect movie changes.

CyberCubed
01-24-2016, 01:59 PM
They should just make series set in the movie-verse like they do with TV shows.

They made Smallvile Season 11 in comics, and now there's a Supergirl comic based on the TV show. It says a lot that we have a comic based on a TV show based on a comic.

sdp
01-24-2016, 02:07 PM
Wait, Dick "died"? Even if he faked it if the whole DCU thought that for two years it would still be a huge shock everywhere. I always thought they would save his death for a Crisis event. He is probably the most connected person in the entire DCU, he is literally an ally of everyone there his death would really have a bigger impact than Batman's death since unlike Bruce he isn't a recluse and only Superman's death would be more shocking to the DCU.


This relaunch if it brings back things to the old DC it would be good but I don't see that happening, if it "mixes" the timelines a bit it would be good. DC and Marvel have had hard and soft-reboots forever, I don't see how this is a big deal anymore. And DC isn't stupid to not go back to their old numbering systems for their big issues like AC#1,000.

Comics have and will always be a mess so to me the best way to follow DC or Marvel is to read story arcs you're interested in and catch up on the backstory through wikis. You can read as much as you want and that's it you only enjoy stuff and don't have to worry about the mess that it really is.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-24-2016, 02:09 PM
So I can get into it right before it's completely rebooted...again?
Nah, I'm good.

Oh, it's even better than that! You can get into it for... twenty issues, I think, before editorial and writer changes shaft the character. I think the New 52 run went through 4 major creative changes before it ended? Maybe 5? It was glorious. Only redeeming feature was Starling.

ZariusTwo
01-24-2016, 03:46 PM
DC's Bat-Books doing well in the BC bestsellers list

1. Batman #48
2. Star Wars #15
3. Deadpool #6
4. Uncanny X-Men #2
5. Harley Quinn #24
6. Batman & Robin Eternal #16
7. New Avengers #5
8. Uncanny Inhumans #4
9. I Hate Fairyland #4
10. Poison Ivy #1
(http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/24/bleeding-cool-bestseller-list-24th-january-2016-batman-beats-star-wars/)

Scott Synder in the meantime has tweeted a bit about his impending departure from the main Bat-book

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/24/thanks-and-updates-from-scott-snyder/


Wait, Dick "died"? Even if he faked it if the whole DCU thought that for two years it would still be a huge shock everywhere. I always thought they would save his death for a Crisis event..

That actually almost happened in Infinite Crisis. Didio wanted Dick dead (which is why he and Babs were allowed to be engaged at the time, knowing they were going to deny them a happy ending) but the writers fought him on it and finally, because the Superboy lawsuit was going on, it was settled on Connor dying instead. Dick was spared, his engagement to Babs was called off, and he had the stint as Batman (the pre-flashpoint versions would eventually get married in Convergence)

Turnstone
01-24-2016, 04:12 PM
I didn't know Dick died. What issue did that happen in?

ZariusTwo
01-24-2016, 04:32 PM
I didn't know Dick died. What issue did that happen in?

He did'nt die. He faked his death after he was publicly unmasked in "Forever Evil" and worked as an agent for Spiral. He's since come out and revealed he's alive to all his friends.

MikeandRaph87
01-24-2016, 05:06 PM
DC's Bat-Books doing well in the BC bestsellers list

1. Batman #48
2. Star Wars #15
3. Deadpool #6
4. Uncanny X-Men #2
5. Harley Quinn #24
6. Batman & Robin Eternal #16
7. New Avengers #5
8. Uncanny Inhumans #4
9. I Hate Fairyland #4
10. Poison Ivy #1
(http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/24/bleeding-cool-bestseller-list-24th-january-2016-batman-beats-star-wars/)

Scott Synder in the meantime has tweeted a bit about his impending departure from the main Bat-book

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/24/thanks-and-updates-from-scott-snyder/




That actually almost happened in Infinite Crisis. Didio wanted Dick dead (which is why he and Babs were allowed to be engaged at the time, knowing they were going to deny them a happy ending) but the writers fought him on it and finally, because the Superboy lawsuit was going on, it was settled on Connor dying instead. Dick was spared, his engagement to Babs was called off, and he had the stint as Batman (the pre-flashpoint versions would eventually get married in Convergence)

Yes, that ticks me off. Dan specifically told me who his least favorite characters were at a DC Nations panel. Who are they? Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Ted Kord, and Michael Carter. The first two are my two personal favorites and the latter two are my younger siblings'. So my family has a grudge against the know nothing. Dick, he claimed was nothing more than repetitive. What the bloody heck is Jason Todd? The poster boy of that from his conception in the DC office in December '82, not to mention since reviving the character he has had less direction than Dick who at the very least has had consistent characterization (ignoring the wrost run ever aka Bruce Jones seven issues). Sorry, I get passionate about my favorite DC Comics character. Besides, Leo is correct. He needs to become Batman like Wally became The Flash. Its the final step for the character and 76 years in its time, but it cant happen. Make Dick 12 year old in a reboot or make him Batman with Bruce an Oracle-like figure and mayor of Gotham.

Leo656
01-24-2016, 06:25 PM
Every time DiDio opens his mouth, you realize he's the single worst thing to happen to comics, period, in decades. From romanticizing heroes who kill over heroes who won't, turning those that won't INTO killers, having people like Batman who would NEVER tolerate murderers as partners or even associates suddenly be all chummy with psychopaths like Jason and Damien, turning "free-spirited" female characters like Starfire into full-blown sluts, killing off much-beloved secondary characters so that heroic characters can now have "dark, tragic" backstories...

The guy's a f*cking idiot. Could be because his background is in TV and not writing comics, TV writing is like the single lowest common denominator for "shock value" storylines and otherwise flat-out trash. It's no surprise to me someone that functionally-retarded could fail upwards in that industry, enough to gain a foothold in a "less demanding" medium like comic books.

DC under Levitz had definitely become a meandering, aimless mess from around 1999-2002, what with the complete lack of continuity between books (even those starring the same character), no direction to speak of, and flat-out boring stories with awful art... so yeah, the first two years of DiDio's run on top were a breath of fresh air by comparison, sure. I admit, the guy even had me fooled. But everything the guy has championed post-Infinite Crisis and 52 has been a DISASTER. The "Sales First, Story Second" approach to running DC has NOT worked.

The only time in its history that DC has ever shined, was when Mike Carlin and Denny O'Neil were running most of it. And those years were GLORIOUS. Mark my words, no amount of retcons and relaunches will EVER bring DC back to the heights they hit from 1986 to 1996. I mean, I called it way back in the late 90s when they fired Dan Jurgens off the Superman books, despite being one of exactly four people who actually know how to write Superman, and possibly THE best Superman writer in history. Why fire him? "Eh, time for a change." :roll: That was the very first awful decision DC Editorial made and it was all downhill from there.

The upside is, even if I focus strictly on collecting and reading DC from 1986 through Flashpoint, that'll still take the rest of my life and I never have to pay attention to this new garbage.

Bry
01-24-2016, 06:40 PM
The only time in its history that DC has ever shined, was when Mike Carlin and Denny O'Neil were running most of it. And those years were GLORIOUS. Mark my words, no amount of retcons and relaunches will EVER bring DC back to the heights they hit from 1986 to 1996.

For all the criticism '90s comics get (and much of it richly deserved), I still have a huge love for '90s DC and have found a larger appreciation for it in a lot of ways. Even when they did their big "extreme replacement" stunts with Batman and Superman, there was a satirical point to them, where the purpose of the storyline showed that the trendy "edgy and violent" replacements were inferior in every way to the icons they'd sidelined. They found a clever way to cash in on market trends while reinforcing the strengths of their classic characters within the narrative.

But so many of the characters and runs back then are still so important to me. Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo on The Flash. Waid and Humberto Ramos' Impulse. Chuck Dixon's Robin series with Tim Drake. Dixon and Scott McDaniel on Nightwing. Peter David and Todd Nauck's Young Justice. Dan Jurgens on Superman, absolutely. And I can't vouch for the run as a whole as I haven't re-read it, but I'll argue for Kyle Rayner being a better main character for the concept of Green Lantern than Hal Jordan was/is, any day of the week. And it's more of a late-'80s into the early-'90s run, but Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle on Batman is all-time definitive to me.

...I could easily go on. Meanwhile, I don't think I could stand by even that many DC books in the past 5-10 years.

sdp
01-24-2016, 07:59 PM
I like 90s comics.

Leo656
01-24-2016, 10:22 PM
They had some misses during that period but DC's output in the 90s was still strong. Just way too Event-driven, and once they gave up on that they over-corrected too far the other way and had all the books segregated, with no continuity between them, and little by little everything started to rot. There wasn't much good coming out after 1999 until a bit before Infinite Crisis.

But yeah, the 90s as a whole isn't remembered fondly as far as comics in general but DC's stuff was way better than what anyone else was doing, at least for a while.

myconius
01-25-2016, 01:02 AM
How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.

To everyone except Bruce, he was dead for close to 2 years, I think.

Wait, Dick "died"?

I didn't know Dick died. What issue did that happen in?

it happened in-between Forever Evil issues #6 & #7.

Dick was technically dead for no more than a minute or two.

the Crime Syndicate hooked him up to a death machine/bomb device with a timer about to go off and they only way it could be deactivated was if Dick's heart stopped beating.

so Lex Luthor smothered him till he flat-lined and then revived him.

it was just a ploy to reel in Nightwing fans into reading Forever Evil cuz they were dropping hints that they were going to kill Dick Grayson for months prior.

https://p.dreamwidth.org/66822ecfac04/-/abload.de/img/foreverevil6-13je02.jpg



http://media.insidepulse.com/zones/insidepulse/uploads/2014/05/Forever-Evil-7-Spoilers-Preview-9.jpg

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/forever-evil-7-hugs.png




i just hope the quality of story-telling goes up with this new relaunch, cuz a lot of their books have been sucking!!

but i'm definitely NOT going to hold my breath!

ZariusTwo
01-28-2016, 03:44 AM
Pre-52 Lois and Clark play a role in Rebirth


http://www.newsarama.com/27726-jurgens-talks-pre-flashpoint-superman-teases-rebirth.html

myconius
01-28-2016, 09:07 AM
Pre-52 Lois and Clark play a role in Rebirth


http://www.newsarama.com/27726-jurgens-talks-pre-flashpoint-superman-teases-rebirth.html

hmmmmm! this reeks pretty foul of yet another Superman cross-over event!

most of the Superman titles are already in a cross-over event that just started called 'Savage Dawn'.

and before that they were in cross-over called 'Truth'.

when will they just be honest and name these events what they really should be called?
'poorly written' ... 'ill-conceived' ... 'uninspired' ... 'cash-grab' ... 'p00p'.

ZariusTwo
01-28-2016, 09:34 AM
hmmmmm! this reeks pretty foul of yet another Superman cross-over event!

most of the Superman titles are already in a cross-over event that just started called 'Savage Dawn'.

and before that they were in cross-over called 'Truth'.

The next crossover is called "Super League", all written by the same person and it comes out in April

myconius
01-28-2016, 10:02 AM
The next crossover is called "Super League", all written by the same person and it comes out in April

(in a Mr. Bill voice) OH NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :o

MikeandRaph87
01-28-2016, 10:11 AM
hmmmmm! this reeks pretty foul of yet another Superman cross-over event!

most of the Superman titles are already in a cross-over event that just started called 'Savage Dawn'.

and before that they were in cross-over called 'Truth'.

when will they just be honest and name these events what they really should be called?
'poorly written' ... 'ill-conceived' ... 'uninspired' ... 'cash-grab' ... 'p00p'.

The reason for the endless events cross-company since 1985 and crossovers with sister titkes sincecrhe early 90s' is it sales bigger than anything else. If Joe the fan stops making random event X the highest selling title maybe DC and Marvel will stop it. Joe the fan complains about it yet contunues to buy into. If he wanted it to stop hevwould not give into compulsion. That is thecroot of the problem.

myconius
01-28-2016, 10:47 AM
The reason for the endless events cross-company since 1985 and crossovers with sister titkes sincecrhe early 90s' is it sales bigger than anything else. If Joe the fan stops making random event X the highest selling title maybe DC and Marvel will stop it. Joe the fan complains about it yet contunues to buy into. If he wanted it to stop hevwould not give into compulsion. That is thecroot of the problem.

one of the problems is editorial forcing these events to alter the continuity completely.
so if you are unfamiliar with what happened, you'll be pretty much clueless as to what's going on in most of the stories.

once in a while they'll be a stand alone series like (Batman '66) that's really enjoyable. but those are far and few between, and don't usually last long.

ZariusTwo
01-28-2016, 11:15 AM
Sales are slipping for both DC and Marvel


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/27/retailers-complain-about-collapsing-marvel-and-dc-sales/

myconius
01-28-2016, 11:20 AM
Sales are slipping for both DC and Marvel


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/27/retailers-complain-about-collapsing-marvel-and-dc-sales/

they lose more and more customers due to poor quality comics, but instead of trying to improve their comics they just pilfer the wallets of what's left of their dedicated fans.

MikeandRaph87
01-28-2016, 11:33 AM
one of the problems is editorial forcing these events to alter the continuity completely.
so if you are unfamiliar with what happened, you'll be pretty much clueless as to what's going on in most of the stories.

once in a while they'll be a stand alone series like (Batman '66) that's really enjoyable. but those are far and few between, and don't usually last long.


I got three DC titles since the reboot. Of Batgirl, Green Lantern, and Batman'66 I loved Batman'66 the best and like TMNT and Star Ears read it thevday it was released. The other three thatvwere actually mainlinevDC and Marvel I buy? I usually bought it a week or two late. Shows the level of interest is in non-mainstream big two. I don't understand why DC cut its Digital First line when it seemed quite successful. Hope for more. It was fun and quality storytelling.

myconius
01-28-2016, 12:05 PM
I got three DC titles since the reboot. Of Batgirl, Green Lantern, and Batman'66 I loved Batman'66 the best and like TMNT and Star Ears read it thevday it was released. The other three thatvwere actually mainlinevDC and Marvel I buy? I usually bought it a week or two late. Shows the level of interest is in non-mainstream big two. I don't understand why DC cut its Digital First line when it seemed quite successful. Hope for more. It was fun and quality storytelling.

i really wish i knew why they pulled the plug????

Batman '66 was one of the only titles i was reading that was not only fun but was also completely independent of all the other titles.

MikeandRaph87
01-28-2016, 12:23 PM
i really wish i knew why they pulled the plug????

Batman '66 was one of the only titles i was reading that was not only fun but was also completely independent of all the other titles.

I saw the thread about Hanna Barbera. I thought it was just fun pictures of what they might look like created in the 2010s' opposed to the 1960s'. Instead it is a whole sub-line by DC Comics of "modernized" HB characters. I thought it was just a fun one off thing a joke. It is sad when a reader thinks a new line is joke upon hearing/reading that. Not good for the publisher. That does not even look like a line of comics. I guess it is a good thing The Jetsons were left untouched...for now. I much rather have the Digital First. It was freaking successful so why pull the plug? Dick Grayson as Batman was successful and they pulled the plug but were able to replace it with an equally successful Court of the Owls cut faced Joker. Yet Dick Grayson's lack of direction was kicked into overdrive so it takes it a step down form being equal even if sales are due to a bit of quality lost. I guess what I am saying its if something is not broke why retool it? There is always the chance of seriously messing up what is already being done, but a much greater chance of ticking people off and hurting the product because of the tickering.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-28-2016, 12:32 PM
I saw the thread about Hanna Barbera. I thought it was just fun pictures of what they might look like created in the 2010s' opposed to the 1960s'. Instead it is a whole sub-line by DC Comics of "modernized" HB characters. I thought it was just a fun one off thing a joke. It is sad when a reader thinks a new line is joke upon hearing/reading that. Not good for the publisher. That does not even look like a line of comics. I guess it is a good thing The Jetsons were left untouched...for now. I much rather have the Digital First. It was freaking successful so why pull the plug? Dick Grayson as Batman was successful and they pulled the plug but were able to replace it with an equally successful Court of the Owls cut faced Joker. Yet Dick Grayson's lack of direction was kicked into overdrive so it takes it a step down form being equal even if sales are due to a bit of quality lost. I guess what I am saying its if something is not broke why retool it? There is always the chance of seriously messing up what is already being done, but a much greater chance of ticking people off and hurting the product because of the tickering.

Yeah, and now Dick Grayson is James Bond. The writing and story is okay (completely rewritten Helena Bertinelli aside), but the whole basic premise just sticks in my craw... :trolleye:

MikeandRaph87
01-28-2016, 12:54 PM
Yeah, and now Dick Grayson is James Bond. The writing and story is okay (completely rewritten Helena Bertinelli aside), but the whole basic premise just sticks in my craw... :trolleye:

Now he is a reluctant agent of the Owl Court. *shakes head* There is reason I always liked him as :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Robin_BTAS.jpg or
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/3a/Batman_Dick_Grayson_0076.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130106065217

Not much they can do to make a mess of him.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-28-2016, 01:04 PM
Now he is a reluctant agent of the Owl Court. *shakes head* There is reason I always liked him as :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Robin_BTAS.jpg or
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/3a/Batman_Dick_Grayson_0076.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130106065217

Not much they can do to make a mess of him.

The reluctant agent of the Court of Owls might have worked if he wasn't just bouncing from one uber spy network to another.

The Court of Owls is the single best concept and single worst actually-written concept ever. So much potential, but they've never done right by them.

MikeandRaph87
01-28-2016, 01:25 PM
The same could have been said about Dr. Hurt and The Black Glove operation and Leviathan afterwards. The latter of which never had time to fully to develope before the reboot cut it off. The before all of that Hush, an individual opposed to the head of an evil organization started, strong with a big story had a period of lagging that went nowhere and then got back to being a notable threat. Yet between Pushback and Heart of Hush did not have quality anywhere near it. His character was almost derailed pretending to be Bruce Wayne after Bruce was missing in time yet managed to vome through it. Any of these three organizations don't seem to have a lasting impact beyond the writer who created them and could make just one single story memorable for many years. Then it gets stale. Instead of building one big storyline thevwriters don't try to spread the wealth of the charactet. Forcing a single big story down our rhroats does not hold in the long term. The character can be added to as time progresses and we get a break and see other villains roate in. It worked for Ras' all those years ago and despite Hush strughling it worked out overall. I don't see any of the three being a reoccuring foe for decades to come. Just a notable threat within a decade.

myconius
01-28-2016, 01:27 PM
Dick Grayson's new comics series is actually a lot of fun! he's written very well humored, and i find myself constantly tickled at his corny jokes! :D
one of the funniest gags of the book is how he's issued a gun and seems to constantly "loose" it!!! :lol:

i absolutely LOVED the Court of Owls when i first read it!!!

but as time rolled by and i tried to re-read it, i just can't get back into the story as i did the first time!
BUT, i still really love flipping through pages and pages of Greg Capullo's art!!!

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-28-2016, 01:35 PM
The same could have been said about Dr. Hurt and The Black Glove operation and Leviathan afterwards. The latter of which never had time to fully to develope before the reboot cut it off. The before all of that Hush, an individual opposed to the head of an evil organization started, strong with a big story had a period of lagging that went nowhere and then got back to being a notable threat. Yet between Pushback and Heart of Hush did not have quality anywhere near it. His character was almost derailed pretending to be Bruce Wayne after Bruce was missing in time yet managed to vome through it. Any of these three organizations don't seem to have a lasting impact beyond the writer who created them and could make just one single story memorable for many years. Then it gets stale. Instead of building one big storyline thevwriters don't try to spread the wealth of the charactet. Forcing a single big story down our rhroats does not hold in the long term. The character can be added to as time progresses and we get a break and see other villains roate in. It worked for Ras' all those years ago and despite Hush strughling it worked out overall. I don't see any of the three being a reoccuring foe for decades to come. Just a notable threat within a decade.

I feel like Leviathan was well-written, even though I despise Grant Morrison's Batman stuff. Talia created an entire organization to 1) conquer the world but more importantly 2) destroy everything Bruce stands for.

myconius
01-28-2016, 01:44 PM
The same could have been said about Dr. Hurt and The Black Glove operation and Leviathan afterwards. The latter of which never had time to fully to develope before the reboot cut it off. The before all of that Hush, an individual opposed to the head of an evil organization started, strong with a big story had a period of lagging that went nowhere and then got back to being a notable threat. Yet between Pushback and Heart of Hush did not have quality anywhere near it. His character was almost derailed pretending to be Bruce Wayne after Bruce was missing in time yet managed to vome through it. Any of these three organizations don't seem to have a lasting impact beyond the writer who created them and could make just one single story memorable for many years. Then it gets stale. Instead of building one big storyline thevwriters don't try to spread the wealth of the charactet. Forcing a single big story down our rhroats does not hold in the long term. The character can be added to as time progresses and we get a break and see other villains roate in. It worked for Ras' all those years ago and despite Hush strughling it worked out overall. I don't see any of the three being a reoccuring foe for decades to come. Just a notable threat within a decade.

even though i really wasn't thrilled with The Black Glove when i first read it, i have to admit it was done a LOT better than Court of Owls!!!

and another testament to that story was as i've re-read it a few more times i saw the hidden layers written into the story!
so well done in fact that it has actually become one of my all-time favorite batman stories.

myconius
01-28-2016, 01:50 PM
I feel like Leviathan was well-written, even though I despise Grant Morrison's Batman stuff. Talia created an entire organization to 1) conquer the world but more importantly 2) destroy everything Bruce stands for.

the most important thing about using a character like Talia that Bruce was once affectionate with, is they have a long running history together.

there were emotions vested in both parties as she became a spurned lover.


i still can't get over the fact that there all of the sudden is a 'super-secret' society that has been operating in gotham since it was first formed that Batman had never knew about!!

it just makes "The World's Greatest Detective" seem like a clueless buffoon.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-28-2016, 01:52 PM
the most important thing about using a character like Talia that Bruce was once affectionate with, is they have a long running history together.

there were emotions vested in both parties as she became a spurned lover.


i still can't get over the fact that there all of the sudden is a 'super-secret' society that has been operating in gotham since it was first formed that Batman had never knew about!!

it just makes "The World's Greatest Detective" seem like a clueless buffoon.

The Court of Owls is supposed to be an urban legend, though, and actively hid itself. I totally buy its existence.

I always preferred Talia as a tenuous ally, not an out-and-out villain. We'll see what they do with her now that she's been resurrected.

MikeandRaph87
01-28-2016, 01:57 PM
Leviathan I feel was the best written of the three, but got less chance. Why? It's coming on the heels of Dr. Hurt's Black Glove and had a wider ambition than just sticking it to Batman or Gotham City. There were personal connections at the same time with Batwoman's uncle and Talia but they were not trying complicated psychological plots like Dr. Hurt ( who turned out to be a motherbox manifestation) or Court of The Owls incorporateing a dke sibling for Bruce and take the "soul" of the city.

myconius
01-28-2016, 02:39 PM
i feel a bit conflicted with this 'All-New' DC re-launch.

as much as i get mild entertainment from new Batman comics, i think i'd be better off dropping all my DC titles and just wait for the trades?

but it's not really easy to judge by reviews due to fawning fans.
i've read glowing reviews praising stories that i myself read as single issues that i thought were terrible.

at least if you get the trade though it's a LOT cheaper!!!!

myconius
01-30-2016, 06:12 PM
well, after much consideration i just went ahead and cancelled MORE THAN HALF of the DC titles on my 'Pull-List'.

it just kills me that every time i turn around they are doing yet another terrible multi-title 'Cross-Over', or re-leasing 'tie-in/one-shots', or doing something stupid that just kills all the enjoyment from comic reading!

i mean if the event was at least entertaining that'd be one thing?
but they usually stink pretty hard!!!

add this on top of all the really bad writing, awful art, poor character depictions, and lack of any sort of cohesive continuity.

i seriously doubt things will improve any with the relaunch.

if anything i'll probably just end up dropping the remainder of my DC titles?
but we'll see what happens?

snake
01-30-2016, 06:36 PM
Oh my god you people, nowhere does this say a continuity reboot. Plus its f*cking bleeding cool, the least credible site around. It's a relaunch. A renumbering designed to attract new readers. Same new 52 continuity, new numbering. Yeah it sucks but the stories will be kept and as long as their good it doesn't matter.


Half of you don't even read comics anyway.

myconius
01-30-2016, 07:21 PM
Oh my god you people, nowhere does this say a continuity reboot. Plus its f*cking bleeding cool, the least credible site around. It's a relaunch. A renumbering designed to attract new readers. Same new 52 continuity, new numbering. Yeah it sucks but the stories will be kept and as long as their good it doesn't matter.


Half of you don't even read comics anyway.

personally most of the DC titles i've been reading have been cold trash for over a year now.

so many times i've seriously considered dropping all of them and just sticking with the independent titles.

and continuity is not the problem.

the problem is terrible stories that aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

snake
01-30-2016, 07:25 PM
personally most of the DC titles i've been reading have been cold trash for over a year now.

so many times i've seriously considered dropping all of them and just sticking with the independent titles.

and continuity is not the problem.

the problem is terrible stories that aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

There's some good stuff among the trash. Better than marvel's pile of relaunch sh*t. The best thing there is the star wars comics.


Batman is great
Justice League is great
Grayson is 10/10
Gotham by midnight was very good
Early DCyou action comics was decent

You just have to look for the stuff

myconius
01-30-2016, 07:36 PM
There's some good stuff among the trash. Better than marvel's pile of relaunch sh*t. The best thing there is the star wars comics.


Batman is great
Justice League is great
Grayson is 10/10
Gotham by midnight was very good
Early DCyou action comics was decent

You just have to look for the stuff

Batman as well as Grayson are among the few DC titles i kept on my pull-list.

i was conflicted about dropping Justice League. but after ALL the lousy cross-over events that just led to other events, it just left a really bad taste in my mouth.

it was really all the Darkseid War One-Shots that were really the final nail in the
coffin! can't say i was really enjoying Darkseid War to begin with, but those 6 one-shots were just garbage!

and the Superman books .... one disapointing cross-over after the next!
Action Comics had it's moments, but it really started spinning it's wheels even before this Vandal Savage story.

i ALMOST kept Justice League of America??? but it's been MEH for a while too.

as for Marvel ...... UHG!!! that stuff is brain poison!!!

CyberCubed
01-30-2016, 08:08 PM
If everyone would just stop buying comics than maybe DC/Marvel would get a clue what people want and go back to their old ways. Its people supporting these books that are the problem.

Stop buying comics.

myconius
01-30-2016, 08:43 PM
If everyone would just stop buying comics than maybe DC/Marvel would get a clue what people want and go back to their old ways. Its people supporting these books that are the problem.

Stop buying comics.

i'm a bit unclear of exactly what you're getting at?

are you suggesting people shouldn't buy any comic at all? or just the bad ones?

MsMarvelDuckie
01-30-2016, 10:34 PM
Hey, I haven't bought any comics for several years from the "Big Two", but it hasn't stopped them going from bad to worse. I was mostly happy with them up until BND, but after that? Not so much....

myconius
01-30-2016, 10:42 PM
i avoided Marvel like the plague till i found out they were re-launching Spider-man about 2 years ago and decided to give it a try.
before the series even got off the ground they announce a multi-title cross-over.
i immediately dropped the title!

there were quite a few DC titles that i was really enjoying.

over time they had several line-up changes and good books quickly became crappy books.

MsMarvelDuckie
01-30-2016, 10:47 PM
As of right now, the only Marvel books I would read are probably Deadpool (if he still has one) and whatever Peter David is on. Maybe Bendis, depending on what it is.

snake
01-30-2016, 11:00 PM
If everyone would just stop buying comics than maybe DC/Marvel would get a clue what people want and go back to their old ways. Its people supporting these books that are the problem.

Stop buying comics.

Are you implying I BUY my comics?

Besides IDW TMNT or any indie title of course.

myconius
01-30-2016, 11:14 PM
if it ain't worth buying, it ain't worth reading.

Ninjinister
01-30-2016, 11:29 PM
i avoided Marvel like the plague till i found out they were re-launching Spider-man about 2 years ago and decided to give it a try.
before the series even got off the ground they announce a multi-title cross-over.
i immediately dropped the title!


But Spider-Verse was the most fun thing that year.

myconius
01-31-2016, 08:56 AM
But Spider-Verse was the most fun thing that year.

i was told Spider-Verse was good, i just wasn't ready for Marvel to nickel and dime me so soon.

in a way i'm glad they did it sooner than later like Geoff Johns Justice League did.

that series is nothing else but a lunch-pad for cross-over events and spin-off mini-series and one-shots.

ZariusTwo
01-31-2016, 09:29 AM
But Spider-Verse was the most fun thing that year.

The main story was pretty mediocre, although the twist with the identity of the scion and the actual ending was great and one of the few instances of Slott actually sticking the landing on a climax. It was largely salvaged by the spin-off books encircling it.

snake
01-31-2016, 10:59 AM
But Spider-Verse was the most fun thing that year.

It was. I really enjoyed that event.

ZariusTwo
02-01-2016, 06:49 AM
Eh, like I said, it's got an ok ending and a good twist with the scion, but really it's just a killathon and most of the issues spend a great deal playing "attack/retreat/attack/retreat" again and again. Peter is upstaged a lot by Doc Ock (Ock even gives Uncle Ben a motivational speech) and seems generally ineffective right up until the end, the designations for the various Earths got muddled up thanks to editorial, Ultimate Peter didn't show up, and you could have told the story in half the time.

The best stuff to come out of it was Spider-Gwen (which was initially good, but is a terrible and overrated book now), the Web Warriors ongoing the following year (a fun and lively book which legitimately handles Spider-Gwen far better), the short stories by Conway and Stern, the little dig taken at the (underrated) ASM newspaper strip, the introduction to the Spider-Man of Renew Your Vows, and the idea that the version of Mayday affected by the event was'nt the real one. Most of that wasn't even in the main story or by Slott with the exception of a couple of things.

I don't like the Ultimate Spidey cartoon all that much, but it's version of Spider-Verse was more entertaining.

ZariusTwo
02-02-2016, 08:14 AM
There will be special "Rebirth" issues for titles in June. Bi-Weekly ongoings will launch in the same month.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/dc-comics-rebirth-before-every-new-1-theyll-get-a-rebirth-issue-in-june/

ZariusTwo
02-02-2016, 10:14 AM
So apparently several books will be getting cancelled, these may include Grayson (boo), Superman/Wonder Woman, Superman/Batman, Starfire and Midnighter

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 10:15 AM
So apparently several books will be getting cancelled, these may include Grayson (boo), Superman/Wonder Woman, Superman/Batman, Starfire and Midnighter

I would like to see Dick Grayson return to a more traditional Batman role, but the rest of those have just been pointless and fluff.

EXCEPT for Midnighter, which is one of those things that are too good and adult for most readers and don't deserve to be canceled by schmucks.

MikeandRaph87
02-02-2016, 10:29 AM
I would like to see Dick Grayson return to a more traditional Batman role, but the rest of those have just been pointless and fluff.

EXCEPT for Midnighter, which is one of those things that are too good and adult for most readers and don't deserve to be canceled by schmucks.

What would you like to see in store for Dick Grayson specifically? I am curious since it is a mutual favorite of ours.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 10:35 AM
What would you like to see in store for Dick Grayson specifically? I am curious since it is a mutual favorite of ours.

I really don't know; it's a sticky situation seeing how his character development culminated in taking up the mantle of the Bat before New 52. Also, every time the New 52 Nightwing series tried to take Dick in a new direction (running Haly's Circus, running Amusement Mile in Gotham City, moving to Chicago), crossover events threw a wrench in the works and nixed his personal independent development.

Ideally, I want Dick to go out on his own again as Nightwing, maybe even back to Bludhaven if it's back on the map thanks to New 52. Realistically, though, I don't know if I trust the New 52 to be able to handle the character.

Grayson as a super-spy / sleeper agent just isn't for me, although I freely admit it is well written.

And I'd normally say I want Dick back with Babs, but New 52 Hipster-Babs is the worst thing to ever happen in the New 52. EVER. Dick with Hipster-Babs would honestly feel like Dick was hanging out with a 14 year-old kid. Eew.

Shark_Blade
02-02-2016, 10:37 AM
I lol'd. New 52 sucks anyway...

MikeandRaph87
02-02-2016, 10:38 AM
I really don't know; it's a sticky situation seeing how his character development culminated in taking up the mantle of the Bat before New 52. Also, every time the New 52 Nightwing series tried to take Dick in a new direction (running Haly's Circus, running Amusement Mile in Gotham City, moving to Chicago), crossover events threw a wrench in the works and nixed his personal independent development.

Ideally, I want Dick to go out on his own again as Nightwing, maybe even back to Bludhaven if it's back on the map thanks to New 52. Realistically, though, I don't know if I trust the New 52 to be able to handle the character.

Grayson as a super-spy / sleeper agent just isn't for me, although I freely admit it is well written.

And I'd normally say I want Dick back with Babs, but New 52 Hipster-Babs is the worst thing to ever happen in the New 52. EVER. Dick with Hipster-Babs would honestly feel like Dick was hanging out with a 14 year-old kid. Eew.

Not necessarily. Remember how Dick was written outside of his own mag in the Devine Grayson run. A total different character that is what you are referring to and yes works well paired with Barbara Gordon.

myconius
02-02-2016, 10:49 AM
So apparently several books will be getting cancelled, these may include Grayson (boo), Superman/Wonder Woman, Superman/Batman, Starfire and Midnighter

Superman/Wonder Woman, and Batman/Superman have mostly just been fodder to include more issues in cross-over events. not even remotely good ones.

with Grayson ending hopefully they'll be bringing back Nightwing?

Krutch
02-08-2016, 01:16 PM
Hey I wasn't exactly sure where else to ask this and I couldn't find out when I tried to look it up...

Can someone tell me how long the War of Light ran for? Someone told me if ran for like 8 years but that seems like a crazy stretch.

myconius
02-08-2016, 01:23 PM
Hey I wasn't exactly sure where else to ask this and I couldn't find out when I tried to look it up...

Can someone tell me how long the War of Light ran for? Someone told me if ran for like 8 years but that seems like a crazy stretch.

i could be wrong, but i thought it spanned for most all of Geoff Johns entire run on Green Lantern?

Krutch
02-08-2016, 01:33 PM
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant when the Green Lantern events started infecting all the other DC books.

myconius
02-08-2016, 01:51 PM
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant when the Green Lantern events started infecting all the other DC books.

sorry, not really sure.

i tried to dabble in reading Green Lantern, but was pretty lost in all of it.

if i were more into it, i'd consider getting these back breakers, but i know i'd never get around to reading them.

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Lantern-Geoff-Johns-Omnibus/dp/140125134X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454960744&sr=8-1&keywords=geoff+johns+green+lantern+omnibus

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Lantern-Geoff-Johns-Omnibus/dp/1401255264/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454960744&sr=8-2&keywords=geoff+johns+green+lantern+omnibus

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Lantern-Geoff-Johns-Omnibus/dp/1401258204/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1454960744&sr=8-3&keywords=geoff+johns+green+lantern+omnibus

if only these were printed, when i first was trying to get into it!! :P

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-08-2016, 01:53 PM
I'm personally hoping (even though I know it won't happen) that Scott Lobdell will get nut-punched and Red Hood will be written by somebody else.

myconius
02-08-2016, 03:00 PM
I'm personally hoping (even though I know it won't happen) that Scott Lobdell will get nut-punched and Red Hood will be written by somebody else.

so long as they get that nut-punch in there!

Leo656
02-08-2016, 11:07 PM
War of Light was like, 2007-10-ish. Technically it started with the build-up to Sinestro Corps War in Summer 2007, and mostly ended with the end of Blackest Night in 2010. That's pretty much what is considered to make up the actual "War of Light".

Some people consider Green Lantern: Rebirth from 2004 to be the official start of the build-up, which is technically correct since Johns's entire run started there and some of those threads carried on until 2010, but I don't really count it. Some people also consider the events of "Brightest Day" to count as part of it, but I consider it separate. It's more like the aftermath to War of Light than a continuation of it.

So pretty much August 2007 through May 2010, although some plot elements started in 2004 and carried through to May 2011. Hope that helps.

ZariusTwo
02-09-2016, 03:02 PM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/09/dc-comics-rebirth-van-jensen-leaves-the-flash-and-dc-comics/

Van Jensen is leaving DC once his run on The Flash ends

Krutch
02-10-2016, 10:44 AM
Thanks guys, that helped!

ZariusTwo
02-15-2016, 04:06 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbR3jNwUMAAPI3s.jpg

Seems they're going again with what they established in Convergence, that New 52 is an evolved pre-flashpoint Earth and that elements of it are going to resurface more and more 'till they have a happy medium of sorts.

Leo656
02-15-2016, 04:13 PM
Yeah, no, that won't at all be cluttered, self-contradictory and confusing.

"New 52 is an alternate universe we were dabbling in for a while. Just wanted to shake things up and see how it took, show off some alternative takes on established characters. We know a lot of it sucked, sorry to scare you guys. We now return you to the 'Real' DCU and your regularly scheduled post-Brightest Day programming circa 2010. Try to just ignore the last 5 or 6 years as we pick up where we left off."

They'll never do that but it's the only thing they SHOULD be doing.

MikeandRaph87
02-15-2016, 04:28 PM
Wait....I am confused. So the New 52 is gone? We start back with Green Lantern#70 and go from where it left off? Link and explanation please!

Bry
02-15-2016, 04:33 PM
Oh, for the luvva...

If they want to walk it back, then by all means, actually walk it back. This "happy medium" nonsense is just going to further confuse their continuity and isn't giving anyone what they really want. It feels a lot like they realize the New 52 failed in a lot of ways, but they don't want to admit they messed up and just go back to the last thing that worked.

Honestly, what DC really needs is a big shakeup in upper management/editorial right now. They've been making a lot of very poor decisions for a long time now.

myconius
02-15-2016, 04:36 PM
i think they will be keeping select elements from both 'pre-flashpoint' and 'new-52' universes?

i don't think they'll make Barbara Gordon become Oracle again?
and Batman will still have never known of the existence of the 'Court of Owls' operating in Gotham for years right under his nose?

from the Solicits they'll be keeping both the 'Lois & Clark' as well as the 'New52/DCYou' Superman titles going?

i've dropped all Justice League books. as those seem to be the most likely to have a 'cash-grab/cross-over' event as well as anything Superman.

hopefully the writer taking over for the 'Dick Grayson' comic does as well for the character as Tom King and Tim Seeley did?

MikeandRaph87
02-15-2016, 05:09 PM
Oh, for the luvva...

If they want to walk it back, then by all means, actually walk it back. This "happy medium" nonsense is just going to further confuse their continuity and isn't giving anyone what they really want. It feels a lot like they realize the New 52 failed in a lot of ways, but they don't want to admit they messed up and just go back to the last thing that worked.

Honestly, what DC really needs is a big shakeup in upper management/editorial right now. They've been making a lot of very poor decisions for a long time now.

http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.10398443.7805/sticker,375x360.png

Give the man a transfer to Warner Bros. TV. He can be at least somewhat effective in a way there. Win-win for all.

ZariusTwo
02-16-2016, 01:56 PM
More news this week...but for now, see Deadpool:lol:



https://twitter.com/geoffjohns/status/699338437485178880

MikeandRaph87
02-16-2016, 02:27 PM
More news this week...but for now, see Deadpool:lol:



https://twitter.com/geoffjohns/status/699338437485178880

How strange of him, a DC guy to openly promote the other company's character's film.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-16-2016, 02:33 PM
How strange of him, a DC guy to openly promote the other company's character's film.

Being extremely skeptical of public faces in general, I'd say his motives can be described as:

1. Divert the topic of conversation onto something that people aren't actively worrying about.
2. Demonstrate hipness and reassure worriers that "hey, I like the same things you do... new DC stories will be great!"
3. All of the above.

Bry
02-16-2016, 02:43 PM
Also, it's specifically a Fox-Marvel movie, not a Marvel Studios one. Marvel Comics and Fox have a very strained relationship to say the least. So... there's another way to read it. :P

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-16-2016, 02:44 PM
Also, it's specifically a Fox-Marvel movie, not a Marvel Studios one. Marvel Comics and Fox have a very strained relationship to say the least. So... there's another way to read it. :P

Oh my goodness, I did not even think of that. I am embarrassed.

Brilliant, Holmes! :tlol:

ZariusTwo
02-17-2016, 03:41 AM
The May solits are out (http://www.newsarama.com/27995-dc-comics-may-2016-solicitations.html). Nothing very indicative of Rebirth in them, other than a couple of variants that "call back" to the first issue covers when the New 52 started.

Some of the creative teams for the books seem to have vanished. They've had to bring back Wolfman to wrap up the current arc for Cyborg for instance.

myconius
02-17-2016, 06:59 AM
The May solits are out (http://www.newsarama.com/27995-dc-comics-may-2016-solicitations.html). Nothing very indicative of Rebirth in them, other than a couple of variants that "call back" to the first issue covers when the New 52 started.

Some of the creative teams for the books seem to have vanished. They've had to bring back Wolfman to wrap up the current arc for Cyborg for instance.

i guess we'll have to wait for all the new number ones to really see what "rebirth" is all about?

MikeandRaph87
02-17-2016, 07:06 AM
Also, it's specifically a Fox-Marvel movie, not a Marvel Studios one. Marvel Comics and Fox have a very strained relationship to say the least. So... there's another way to read it. :P

They are somewhat promoting the film. Does anyone have the Contest of Champions App? It is featuring Deadpool level this month. There is also the Spider-Man/Deadpool mini-series. So even if only a light push it is getting a push. Its not like its a Fantastic bomb. I think DoFP fixing the problems the best it could with X3 helped restore the franchise in Marvel's eyes as it did fans. Of course Marvel would like it for it self but I think it is content.


Perhaps we seeing one Earth during New 52 of the 52 different Earths and we are about to move back to a previous Earth we were reading? That way everything counts. That would go along the lines of Convergence.

myconius
02-17-2016, 07:15 AM
Perhaps we seeing one Earth during New 52 of the 52 different Earths and we are about to move back to a previous Earth we were reading? That way everything counts. That would go along the lines of Convergence.

yeah, convergence as a story was pretty terrible, but at least the uniting of the previous universe and new universe together was a good idea.

ZariusTwo
02-17-2016, 08:30 AM
Some interesting details from this week's DC Comics. Altered/resurfacing memories, potential "ways out" for Dick Grayson, and the fate of the original Titans

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/17/is-memory-the-key-to-the-dc-comics-rebirth-spoilers-for-titans-hunt-batman-robin-eternal-secret-six/

ZariusTwo
02-17-2016, 11:00 AM
DC looking to lock down talents to exclusive contracts

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/17/dc-comics-sends-out-exclusive-offers-to-creators-this-week-ahead-of-rebirth-announcements/

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-17-2016, 11:22 AM
DC looking to lock down talents to exclusive contracts

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/17/dc-comics-sends-out-exclusive-offers-to-creators-this-week-ahead-of-rebirth-announcements/

I really don't want Gail to sign that. I want more "Clean Room" more than I want her at DC.

MikeandRaph87
02-17-2016, 11:58 AM
If they don't sign exclusive does that mean they will no stay on or DC give them crap assignments opposed to those who do sign? Any way about this does not feel right.

myconius
02-17-2016, 01:08 PM
Some interesting details from this week's DC Comics. Altered/resurfacing memories, potential "ways out" for Dick Grayson, and the fate of the original Titans

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/17/is-memory-the-key-to-the-dc-comics-rebirth-spoilers-for-titans-hunt-batman-robin-eternal-secret-six/

DC looking to lock down talents to exclusive contracts

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/17/dc-comics-sends-out-exclusive-offers-to-creators-this-week-ahead-of-rebirth-announcements/

while i'm really happy there's talks of Bringing Nightwing back, i'm just hoping they give him a good new creative team!
the previous writers were excellent!!!

i am a bit concerned out this exclusivity with creators though.
i've seen too many writers and artists pushed to the breaking point, were even some of the most talented were producing cruddy comics! :ohwell:

ZariusTwo
02-17-2016, 04:12 PM
Announcement tomorrow

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/17/dc-comics-to-announce-rebirth-tomorrow-at-comicspro/

ZariusTwo
02-18-2016, 01:20 PM
Say bye bye to Vision. Tom King is now exclusively DC alongside Clay Mann and John Timms

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/02/18/dc-entertainment-signs-top-talent

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-18-2016, 01:22 PM
Say bye bye to Vision. Tom King is now exclusively DC alongside Clay Mann and John Timms

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/02/18/dc-entertainment-signs-top-talent

SH!T. Vision was pretty awesome.

myconius
02-18-2016, 02:23 PM
say bye bye to vision. Tom king is now exclusively dc alongside clay mann and john timms

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/02/18/dc-entertainment-signs-top-talent

whoa !!!! @_@

ZariusTwo
02-18-2016, 03:49 PM
Sam Humphries is now DC exclusive

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/18/sam-humphries-signs-exclusively-to-dc-comics-ahead-of-rebirth/

myconius
02-18-2016, 04:04 PM
Say bye bye to Vision. Tom King is now exclusively DC alongside Clay Mann and John Timms

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/02/18/dc-entertainment-signs-top-talent

i'm very interested to see where John Timms will be placed?
hopefully his talents will be were utilized?

i'm not crazy about Clay Mann's interior art. it looks too dependent of photographs.

i'm not sure how i feel about Tom King being signed exclusive just yet?
on one hand he has to get in 2 scripts a month on Batman. but hopefully they won't be throwing all kinds of cross-overs at him. that's always a good way to kill a good run on a series!

TurtleTitan97
02-18-2016, 06:33 PM
hOFXITBuLMA

Krutch
02-18-2016, 06:48 PM
So Rebirth is an event that is staying within the boundries of the New 52 universe but is probably going to drop all ongoing storylines and do a soft reboot.

..Is that what I'm hearing?

myconius
02-18-2016, 09:26 PM
it sounds like he's saying what many people i've talked to have been figuring, that they are going to meld pre-flashpoint and post-flashpoint together.

i really hope we see the return of the original Lobo!!!

snake
02-18-2016, 09:32 PM
So Rebirth is an event that is staying within the boundries of the New 52 universe but is probably going to drop all ongoing storylines and do a soft reboot.

..Is that what I'm hearing?

Pretty much. Soft reboots are confusing as f*ck.

myconius
02-18-2016, 09:50 PM
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/02/18/dc-entertainment-reveals-first-details-of-%E2%80%9Crebirth%E2%80%9D-to-retailers-at-comics-pro-2016


DC’s two flagship legacy titles will resume their original issue numbering, also shipping twice monthly:
DETECTIVE COMICS will pick up with issue #934, while ACTION COMICS will continue with issue #957.

MikeandRaph87
02-18-2016, 10:13 PM
Great now I don't have to add the true number up. What of Batman title and Superman title going back to the 760s?

myconius
02-18-2016, 10:24 PM
Great now I don't have to add the true number up. What of Batman title and Superman title going back to the 760s?

all of the other titles are starting back at #1

the link shows the full line up

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/02/18/dc-entertainment-reveals-first-details-of-%E2%80%9Crebirth%E2%80%9D-to-retailers-at-comics-pro-2016

i see they nixed Catwoman as well as Robin.

mrmaczaps
02-18-2016, 10:31 PM
Soft reboots suck. DC just needs to dump it all, start a few years into an existing universe and then skip the dang origins. It can take place prior to Flashpoint but unless absolutely needed, not reference any previous story and move forward.
Dumbsh!ts.

ZariusTwo
02-19-2016, 01:00 PM
DC are getting their own catalogue in PREVIEWS next month

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/19/dc-comics-rebirth-will-get-its-own-previews-catalogue-next-month/

ZariusTwo
02-19-2016, 02:45 PM
Prez will be back in October

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-prez-will-return-in-october-says-writer-mark-russell

myconius
02-19-2016, 04:06 PM
Prez will be back in October

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-prez-will-return-in-october-says-writer-mark-russell

have you heard anything about Robin's comic series?

MikeandRaph87
02-19-2016, 09:56 PM
I get Green Lantern and Batgirl. So Batgirl will be the same just the number is restarted? Green Lantern for some reason is being retitled Hal Jordan and The Green Lanterns?

CyberCubed
02-20-2016, 02:38 AM
Does Superman get red trunks back or not?

ZariusTwo
02-20-2016, 02:52 PM
When asked if there were anything more to come for the more experimental stuff from the DCYOU range, Didio promised that "special series" were on the way for Rebirth

https://twitter.com/dandidio1/status/700833003358957570

Yoshimickster
02-21-2016, 04:10 PM
How long until the NEXT reboot? I'm betting same as this one, five years. DC needs to get it to-GETHER!

ZariusTwo
02-22-2016, 03:30 PM
Yet another "controversial" DC moment coming in Rebirth

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/22/rebirth-to-include-the-single-most-controversial-scene-at-dc-comics-dan-didio/

myconius
02-22-2016, 03:48 PM
Yet another "controversial" DC moment coming in Rebirth

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/22/rebirth-to-include-the-single-most-controversial-scene-at-dc-comics-dan-didio/

great, just what we need!
more controversy!!

i think LESS controversy would be nice for a change?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2016, 03:52 PM
More controversial than Babs getting her legs back?

Hmmmm...

They've killed Batman tons of times, nothing new or controversial there...

CyberCubed
02-22-2016, 03:58 PM
I'm willing to bet its a longtime character being revealed to be gay. That's the kind of controversy they go for these days.

ZariusTwo
02-22-2016, 04:00 PM
I would'nt be surprised if it's a full on Lois Lane heel turn actually. They've been experimenting with that in the darkly humoured JL 3001 title, they had Lois out Clark's secret in "Truth" and the solits for future comics say her life is changed forever by the next Superman event.

Not to mention pre-flashpoint Supes and Lois are going to hang around, so there would still be a "good" Lois for readers who want their hand held.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2016, 04:01 PM
I'm willing to bet its a longtime character being revealed to be gay. That's the kind of controversy they go for these days.

But they can't do it with anyone TOO major lest it actually be of real controversy.

So no homosexual Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent, but possibly... I dunno, Dick Grayson? :tlol:

CyberCubed
02-22-2016, 04:02 PM
They'll do it with a supporting character like Tim Drake or someone.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2016, 04:04 PM
They'll do it with a supporting character like Tim Drake or someone.

Oho... that's actually a fairly decent theory, given that the New 52 has done absolutely jacksh!t with him so far.

Sorry, Stephanie Brown, Tamara Fox, Cassandra Cain, and Cassandra Sandsmark, but he's just not that into you.

myconius
02-22-2016, 04:21 PM
well they already killed Superman, they killed Batman, they killed Robin...

maybe they'll kill Wonder Woman?

CyberCubed
02-22-2016, 04:23 PM
We may also get something like the first black robin. They'll do their version of Miles Morales.

TurtleTitan97
02-22-2016, 04:28 PM
well they already killed Superman, they killed Batman, they killed Robin...

maybe they'll kill Wonder Woman?

I believe they already did something like that back in the 90s.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-22-2016, 04:29 PM
Cubed, STOP giving these hacks ideas!! We don't need another Miles. Heck we didn't need the FIRST one.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2016, 04:30 PM
I believe they already did something like that back in the 90s.

They HAD to have done that... they killed Batman and Superman in the same decade at the same time, how did they not kill off Wonder Woman, too? :tlol:

We may also get something like the first black robin. They'll do their version of Miles Morales.

Duke Thomas, man. Black Robin is already happening, just not in full continuity... I actually wouldn't mind seeing him get an official role on the Bats team. Although leading the Robins Gang was pretty cool.

TurtleTitan97
02-22-2016, 04:47 PM
Cubed, STOP giving these hacks ideas!! We don't need another Miles. Heck we didn't need the FIRST one.

Hey now, Miles was actually one of the best characters to come from Marvel in a long time. At least in my opinion anyway.

myconius
02-22-2016, 04:51 PM
i thought Luke Fox was DC's rip-off version of Miles Morales?

myconius
02-22-2016, 04:52 PM
Duke Thomas, man. Black Robin is already happening, just not in full continuity... I actually wouldn't mind seeing him get an official role on the Bats team. Although leading the Robins Gang was pretty cool.

Damian is staying Robin, and if Duke does become a costume they've shown him in the future as Sparrow.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2016, 04:54 PM
Damian is staying Robin, and if Duke does become a costume they've shown him in the future as Sparrow.

When was that? The brief hallucination from "Endgame"?

myconius
02-22-2016, 05:26 PM
When was that? The brief hallucination from "Endgame"?

yup. that's the one.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-22-2016, 09:43 PM
Hey now, Miles was actually one of the best characters to come from Marvel in a long time. At least in my opinion anyway.


Let's be honest here- Miles is Peter 2.0, or maybe the "Made in...." knockoff version. Seriously. His backstory is an "inspired by" second-hand version of Parker's own, with hero-worship overtones. As a character he really doesn't bring anything new to the table. What I've seen of him is just pretty much a retread of Peter for an inclusive young "new hero new spin" generation. YMMV, but I find him boring and far too trend-chasing for the sake of "diversity" as a character. Much like a certain OTHER "new" character in an older hero's mantle. (*cough Ms. Marvel cough*)

MikeandRaph87
02-22-2016, 09:47 PM
More controversial than Babs getting her legs back?

Hmmmm...

They've killed Batman tons of times, nothing new or controversial there...

Controversial? That was the only thing I liked that came out of the New 52.

ZariusTwo
02-23-2016, 03:53 AM
Let's be honest here- Miles is Peter 2.0, or maybe the "Made in...." knockoff version. Seriously. His backstory is an "inspired by" second-hand version of Parker's own, with hero-worship overtones. As a character he really doesn't bring anything new to the table. What I've seen of him is just pretty much a retread of Peter for an inclusive young "new hero new spin" generation. YMMV, but I find him boring and far too trend-chasing for the sake of "diversity" as a character. Much like a certain OTHER "new" character in an older hero's mantle. (*cough Ms. Marvel cough*)

Not to mention his method of despatching virtually every overpowered enemy with a venom blast is starting to turn his title into a running joke.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-23-2016, 05:03 AM
And people like him WHY again??

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-23-2016, 09:30 AM
Controversial? That was the only thing I liked that came out of the New 52.

No offense, pal, but you're one of a tiny minority. Babs was pretty much the only handicapped hero in the entire industry and poof, undone.

myconius
02-23-2016, 09:46 AM
No offense, pal, but you're one of a tiny minority. Babs was pretty much the only handicapped hero in the entire industry and poof, undone.

i'm not so sure about that?

the barbara gordon batgirl series has maintained fairly high ratings since it's launch.
even more shocking is how the new batgirl of burnside seems to be doing.

and oracle wasn't the only handicapped hero in the industry.
professor x was in a wheelchair long before killing joke ever happened.

ZariusTwo
02-23-2016, 09:48 AM
i'm not so sure about that?

the barbara gordon batgirl series has maintained fairly high ratings since it's launch.
even more shocking is how the new batgirl of burnside seems to be doing.

Yeah, but Gail's run with the book was met with critical disdain (though it's less her fault and more editorial forcing her to make the book too dark), and now the book gets hits simply by pandering to the feminist hipster tumblr crowd, it's far removed from "proper" Batgirl

As for Xavier...he's also regained the use of his legs on and off in tje comics, to the point it was becoming as much a joke as the mansion constantly blowing up (the lattr of which which even got a reference in the Deadpool movie)

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-23-2016, 09:58 AM
i'm not so sure about that?

the barbara gordon batgirl series has maintained fairly high ratings since it's launch.
even more shocking is how the new batgirl of burnside seems to be doing.

and oracle wasn't the only handicapped hero in the industry.
professor x was in a wheelchair long before killing joke ever happened.

If you go back and look at all of the hype before the New 52 officially debuted, people's reactions were overwhelmingly against Babs reverting to Batgirl. The vast majority of her character development happened as Oracle; it was seen as the equivalent of sending Dick back to being Robin.

While some people liked Simone's "Batgirl" run, I don't think it was anything close to stellar. It had some okay stories, a lot of forgettable villains except for Joker and James Jr, but for some reason got turned into Hipster Babs.

And points to you, I can't believe I forgot about Charlie X. :tlol:

myconius
02-23-2016, 10:04 AM
Yeah, but Gail's run with the book was met with critical disdain (though it's less her fault and more editorial forcing her to make the book too dark), and now the book gets hits simply by pandering to the feminist hipster tumblr crowd, it's far removed from "proper" Batgirl

As for Xavier...he's also regained the use of his legs on and off in tje comics, to the point it was becoming as much a joke as the mansion constantly blowing up (the lattr of which which even got a reference in the Deadpool movie)

that actually was a shame about Gail's Batgirl run! it was SO exhausting all the misery!!!
it's hard to even think about re-reading it even though i love the character!

the Batgirl of Burnside was kind of fun in the beginning, but then it got WAY to patronizing to the feminist hipsters to the point of Extreme nausea and i had to drop the title!!

that was pretty hysterical Deadpool mocking the x-men's mansion constantly blowing up!

best line - "it rhymes with pullverine." :lol:

myconius
02-23-2016, 10:10 AM
If you go back and look at all of the hype before the New 52 officially debuted, people's reactions were overwhelmingly against Babs reverting to Batgirl. The vast majority of her character development happened as Oracle; it was seen as the equivalent of sending Dick back to being Robin.

While some people liked Simone's "Batgirl" run, I don't think it was anything close to stellar. It had some okay stories, a lot of forgettable villains except for Joker and James Jr, but for some reason got turned into Hipster Babs.

And points to you, I can't believe I forgot about Charlie X. :tlol:

there was so much hate about Babs walking again, but i have to be honest she was always my favorite Batgirl even more than Casandra Cain.

and i can't believe just how popular hipster Babs has become!!!
i'm a bit worried that little tweeting hipster may stick around even after rebirth?
i don't mind Babs walking, but her being a bubblehead is just awful!

hahaha! yeah i had to scratch my head for a bit before ol' Charles X popped in there! :lol:

MikeandRaph87
02-23-2016, 12:39 PM
If you go back and look at all of the hype before the New 52 officially debuted, people's reactions were overwhelmingly against Babs reverting to Batgirl. The vast majority of her character development happened as Oracle; it was seen as the equivalent of sending Dick back to being Robin.

While some people liked Simone's "Batgirl" run, I don't think it was anything close to stellar. It had some okay stories, a lot of forgettable villains except for Joker and James Jr, but for some reason got turned into Hipster Babs.

And points to you, I can't believe I forgot about Charlie X. :tlol:

You see that is just it. Barbara is best as Bargirl just as Dick is at his own best as Robin. It is hard to set a solid direction for them otherwise. Dick was designed to be Batman and why not Barbara his opposite number as Batwoman? I feel like there is much more to work with and the costumed identities can grow with the person under the mask.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-23-2016, 12:45 PM
You see that is just it. Barbara is best as Bargirl just as Dick is at his own best as Robin. It is hard to set a solid direction for them otherwise. Dick was designed to be Batman and why not Barbara his opposite number as Batwoman? I feel like there is much more to work with and the costumed identities can grow with the person under the mask.

I disagree that they're best as Batgirl and Robin. I think they need to evolve past their initial roles to leadership roles, Nightwing (and eventually Batman) and Oracle.

But hey, $0.02.

myconius
02-23-2016, 01:08 PM
personally, i got tired of reading the usual trope of "They're headed to Oracle's Tower!!! We gotta go rescue her!!!
Barbara Gordon as Batgirl (or even evolve her into Batwoman) offers a lot more opportunity for story-telling.

i can understand DC making her reclaim the mantle as Batgirl, but as much as i enjoy Dick Grayson as Robin there's NO WAY i'd want to not see him as Nightwing!!!
even his roll as Agent 37 is a lot of fun to read as he has many layers from all the different capes he's worn in the past.

now as cool as Agent 37 is, i'm pleased to hear they are finally bringing back Dick as Nightwing!!!
i just hope the team they give his does him justice!

TurtleTitan97
02-23-2016, 02:30 PM
I disagree that they're best as Batgirl and Robin. I think they need to evolve past their initial roles to leadership roles, Nightwing (and eventually Batman) and Oracle.


^^ This. Having them grow and evolve into their own new roles is better than just simply keeping them as Batman's sidekicks. Same goes for legacy characters like Wally West and so on.

myconius
02-23-2016, 02:43 PM
one of the biggest things about rebirth, i'm not even sure if anyone has touched upon?

the major titles will ALL be bi-weekly!!!

now i don't know if anyone else here has read the weekly titles 'Batman Eternal' or 'Batman & Robin Eternal'?
but they are BOTH terrible!!!!

rushed underdeveloped writing and haphazard inconsistent art!

both series started out ok, but devolved into utter trash as they went.

sure, bi-weekly isn't as bad as weekly?
but seeing how DC couldn't get it together for most of their titles when they were coming out only ONCE a month!

pretty sure this move will end up bitting them in the y'arse in the long run?

ZariusTwo
02-23-2016, 02:46 PM
You see that is just it. Barbara is best as Bargirl just as Dick is at his own best as Robin. It is hard to set a solid direction for them otherwise. Dick was designed to be Batman and why not Barbara his opposite number as Batwoman? I feel like there is much more to work with and the costumed identities can grow with the person under the mask.

She's boring as all sin as Batgirl. As Oracle, she got to use her brainpower to work things out and was also an inspiration for people who were handicapped.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-23-2016, 02:46 PM
one of the biggest things about rebirth, i'm not even sure if anyone has touched upon?

the major titles will ALL be bi-weekly!!!

now i don't know if anyone else here has read the weekly titles 'Batman Eternal' or 'Batman & Robin Eternal'?
but they are BOTH terrible!!!!

rushed underdeveloped writing and haphazard inconsistent art!

both series started out ok, but devolved into utter trash as they went.

sure, bi-weekly isn't as bad as weekly?
but seeing how DC couldn't get it together for most of their titles when they were coming out only ONCE a month!

pretty sure this move will end up bitting them in the y'arse in the long run?

While I absolutely agree with you, Batman & Robin Eternal has been FAR SUPERIOR to Batman Eternal. They really improved their game.

But they went from F- to, let's be nice and say a C+ or B-.

MikeandRaph87
02-23-2016, 02:59 PM
I disagree that they're best as Batgirl and Robin. I think they need to evolve past their initial roles to leadership roles, Nightwing (and eventually Batman) and Oracle.

But hey, $0.02.

I feel like the costumed identities are been stereotyped and believed to have a limit. Why not let the role grow with the person behind the mask/under the cowl? Dick can be Robin but as an adult and not the #2 under Batman, but an equal who happens to be first on his speed dial? Barbara remaining as Batgirl seems to be easier to gain support yet I don't know why. Limiting her to being an information broker like Dick as Nightwing lets them grow, but to a point. The same can be argued for Robin and Batgirl. Its just as their classic guises they have much more to work with and the roles can be bent easier. People just have to get past Robin being a sidekick and Batgirl being stereotyped. I always felt trying to separate Dick from Bruce as Nightwing took away from his roots and who he was. He can be Robin in Bludhaven and lead the Titans and come in to aide Bruce whenever necessary. A steadier role should follow as well.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-23-2016, 03:11 PM
I feel like the costumed identities are been stereotyped and believed to have a limit. Why not let the role grow with the person behind the mask/under the cowl? Dick can be Robin but as an adult and not the #2 under Batman, but an equal who happens to be first on his speed dial? Barbara remaining as Batgirl seems to be easier to gain support yet I don't know why. Limiting her to being an information broker like Dick as Nightwing lets them grow, but to a point. The same can be argued for Robin and Batgirl. Its just as their classic guises they have much more to work with and the roles can be bent easier. People just have to get past Robin being a sidekick and Batgirl being stereotyped. I always felt trying to separate Dick from Bruce as Nightwing took away from his roots and who he was. He can be Robin in Bludhaven and lead the Titans and come in to aide Bruce whenever necessary. A steadier role should follow as well.

Bold red, green, and yellow are not the color of an adult superhero. Unless you're Vision, I guess.

I much prefer Robin as a legacy title, opening the door to the likes of Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Duke Thomas, and even (I suppose) Carrie Kelly.

Same for Batgirl.

Candy Kappa
02-23-2016, 03:21 PM
I really like Batgirl of Burnside, but I also like Babs as Oracle. Too bad we can't have both, since DC are jackwagons not doing the multiverse anymore. Despite getting a pretty nifty system set up by Morrison.

myconius
02-23-2016, 03:25 PM
While I absolutely agree with you, Batman & Robin Eternal has been FAR SUPERIOR to Batman Eternal. They really improved their game.

But they went from F- to, let's be nice and say a C+ or B-.

hahaha!!! yeah, as sad as it is, B&R Eternal is MUCH better than the major TurdFest that was Batman Eternal!!!

should have been called Batman E'turd'nal!!! :lol:

myconius
02-23-2016, 03:35 PM
I really like Batgirl of Burnside, but I also like Babs as Oracle. Too bad we can't have both, since DC are jackwagons not doing the multiverse anymore. Despite getting a pretty nifty system set up by Morrison.

seeing how Harper Row/Blue Bird is a tech-genius and really doesn't have much in the way of field training, i was really expecting her to get herself crippled while playing hero and end up becoming Oracle?

but the current writers at DC aren't clever enough to see that the roster of street vigilantes in Gotham is already over crowded.

so while characters like Stephanie Brown/Spoiler and Casandra Cain/Black Bat would make great additions to The Birds of Prey, they just keep shoving them into the Batman titles.

i really wish the Batgirl of Burnside would have kept it as least on the level as it was for the first 6 issues.
Babs still had traits of being smart and resourceful.
it just seems like they're devolving her into a giddy airhead. :-?

ZariusTwo
02-24-2016, 12:41 PM
I read the new issue of Aquaman today. Already it's leagues better than Cullen's ill-fated run. Mera's replica Aquaman costume though:ohwell:

myconius
02-24-2016, 07:15 PM
I read the new issue of Aquaman today. Already it's leagues better than Cullen's ill-fated run. Mera's replica Aquaman costume though:ohwell:

i tried to stay with Aquaman just a few issues into the Cullen run.
it was pretty gawd awful! dropped it like a hot potato!

ZariusTwo
02-26-2016, 05:57 AM
Newsarama lists the top ten worst New 52/DC YOU titles

http://www.newsarama.com/28141-worst-titles-of-dc-s-new-52-dc-you-era.html

myconius
02-26-2016, 07:17 AM
Newsarama lists the top ten worst New 52/DC YOU titles

http://www.newsarama.com/28141-worst-titles-of-dc-s-new-52-dc-you-era.html

as much as i love Andy Kubertís art, his writing is pretty awful!

but the four-issue miniseries of Damien: Son of Batman was part of The New 52 or DC You.
it was actually supposed to be a spin off from the pre-flashpoint Grant Morrison saga.

just goes to show of the validity of some of these on-line articles.

my personal opinion, 'Convergence' deserved the #1 spot!

it brought back many hopeful people that had given up DC after the New 52, (and aside from Lois & Clark) gave them garbage!

ZariusTwo
02-26-2016, 02:36 PM
DC told the writers to "pitch anything" for Rebirth...regardless of whether it was a reboot, refresh or not. Now the creative talents admit they're confused.


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/26/its-not-a-reboot-and-it-never-was-shame-no-one-told-the-creators/

Meanwhile, the consequences of Convergence spill over into GL#50 as Paralax comes calling

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/26/green-lantern-vs-green-lantern-for-green-lantern-50/

myconius
02-26-2016, 02:39 PM
DC told the writers to "pitch anything" for Rebirth...regardless of whether it was a reboot, refresh or not. Now the creative talents admit they're confused.


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/26/its-not-a-reboot-and-it-never-was-shame-no-one-told-the-creators/

not a good sign!

CyberCubed
02-27-2016, 05:48 PM
I think DC needs to trash all its comics.

ZariusTwo
03-03-2016, 03:48 AM
Wow. Gail Simone has to come up with her own headcanon for Hipster Babs or it does'nt even work for her

http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/140344532945/as-great-as-the-new-younger-babs-is-its

Bry
03-03-2016, 06:00 AM
DC told the writers to "pitch anything" for Rebirth...regardless of whether it was a reboot, refresh or not. Now the creative talents admit they're confused.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/26/its-not-a-reboot-and-it-never-was-shame-no-one-told-the-creators/

So... sounds like upper management/editorial at DC is planning all this about as well as they did the New 52, huh? :P

I still want to root for this to work out, and Geoff Johns talked a good game in that video, pretty much admitting that they fumbled the ball with the New 52... But I just really don't trust DC's track record at this point. And I know I'm far from alone.

Y'know, I desperately want to read a "Marvel: The Untold Story"-style behind-the-scenes account of the past 10+ years or so at DC. I'm sure that'd be interesting.

Wow. Gail Simone has to come up with her own headcanon for Hipster Babs or it does'nt even work for her

http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/140344532945/as-great-as-the-new-younger-babs-is-its

I'm one of the people who actually likes Hipster Babs, but I have to take it as its own thing entirely. Like an "Ultimate Batgirl". That version of the character would have worked a lot better as a full reboot, instead of directly following a run that tried to keep the character's full history relatively intact. It just doesn't feel like it "fits" the way they're presenting it. Still really like the tone and the art and the design, though.

I definitely agree with the questioner at the link, though -- with a little tweaking, the current run would be great as a Steph series.

myconius
03-03-2016, 07:00 AM
so much of The New 52 wasn't about changing the characters because they has some inspired re-invention for the characters.

a lot of it just felt random! change just for the sake of being different, even though it was gawd awful!

and this talk about bringing the price down to $2.99 is pretty bogus when the double-ship titles will be snatching $5.98 out from peoples pockets each month.

and the quality (or lack of) that i've seen of weekly titles, they just deteriorate more and more over time.

ZariusTwo
03-03-2016, 07:23 AM
I'd have probably been way more on board with it if it had been a Steph series, instead of just liking it for a bit then dropping off. I also hated how it handled Dick and Babs' reunion after Dick revealed he was alive (Dick and Kori's reunion was a lot better), since it just came after Gail's great finale to the Dick/Babs relationship drama in Convergence and felt like a kick in the balls.

Bry
03-03-2016, 07:45 AM
Yeah, I really liked that send-off too. Simone has such a great handle on Babs, so if she says something feels "off" then I definitely trust that. Her read on it makes a lot of sense -- Burnside Babs reads a lot younger than she has in a very long time, so taking it as a "young Batgirl" reboot makes the most sense there.

Acually, I like what they were going for with a lot of DCYou. Gotham Academy, Black Canary, Starfire... I know they're not for everyone, but they have a lot of charm and feel pretty fresh to me, especially compared to DC's previous Grimdark Everything approach. But they were trying to draw in an audience that they had just completely turned off with the New 52, and the abrupt tonal shift turned off a lot of their current audience. If they would have given the reboot more thought and care to begin with, maybe they could have had a more diverse, successful lineup. Instead, they managed to basically disappoint everyone.

myconius
03-03-2016, 08:07 AM
the only problem with Gail Simone trying to fit misshapen pieces like that, is Batgirl of Burnside is a LOT dippier than Batgirl Year One.

but i guess that says something for the writing talents of Scott Beatty & Chuck Dixon opposed to Cameron Stewart & Brenden Fletcher!

ZariusTwo
03-04-2016, 05:06 AM
Apparently the latest issue of Batgirl "undid" a few things, including Killing Joke.

ZariusTwo
03-04-2016, 01:30 PM
If Leo were here, he'd be purring...

Dan Jurgens to write the bi-weekly Action Comics?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/04/dc-comics-rebirth-dan-jurgens-is-the-new-writer-for-action-comics-biweekly/

Redeemer
03-04-2016, 03:30 PM
Apparently the latest issue of Batgirl "undid" a few things, including Killing Joke.

WOW!!!!! I can't believe that!!!!! Killing Joke has been such a big part of the Batman and Batgirl/Oracle Origin. :o

myconius
03-04-2016, 06:15 PM
If Leo were here, he'd be purring...

Dan Jurgens to write the bi-weekly Action Comics?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/04/dc-comics-rebirth-dan-jurgens-is-the-new-writer-for-action-comics-biweekly/

that's probably one of the best bits on news they've posted!

thundermaster612
03-04-2016, 06:34 PM
I think DC needs to trash all its comics.

agreed sir

ZariusTwo
03-05-2016, 01:02 PM
Jim Lee talks a bit about Rebirth in a new interview from the In Store Convention Kick-Off

“It’s not a reboot, it’s really a relaunch, creatively it’s looking at the entire line… taking elements of the DC Mythology maybe not seen in the New 52 and bringing them back… we have really high hopes, it’s amazing to see the covers come in the new writers come in, sitting down with Geoff Johns and spending hours focusing on the characters… It’s going to be very character driven. Discovering what makes them unique and exciting and different from each other.”

He also confirms the writer joining him on Suicide Squad is Martian Manhunter's Rob Wiliams

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/rob-williams-to-write-jim-lees-suicide-squad-instorekickoff/

Dan Didio confirms that continuity is back in a big way with Rebirth, there's also a confirmation of a Rebirth-exclusive previews mag for June solits

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/dc-comics-returns-to-continuity-leaves-previews-for-a-month-and-dan-didios-favourite-rebirth-is-super-sons-instorekickoff/

myconius
03-05-2016, 03:34 PM
Jim Lee talks a bit about Rebirth in a new interview from the In Store Convention Kick-Off



He also confirms the writer joining him on Suicide Squad is Martian Manhunter's Rob Wiliams

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/rob-williams-to-write-jim-lees-suicide-squad-instorekickoff/

Dan Didio confirms that continuity is back in a big way with Rebirth, there's also a confirmation of a Rebirth-exclusive previews mag for June solits

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/dc-comics-returns-to-continuity-leaves-previews-for-a-month-and-dan-didios-favourite-rebirth-is-super-sons-instorekickoff/

80 pages for $2.99???

i'll definitely have to pick up a copy of that Rebirth Special!

i'm still on the fence about exactly which regular titles i want to pick up?

bet Jim Lee only stays on Suicide Squad for one story-arc before bailing?

ZariusTwo
03-05-2016, 03:44 PM
Superman vs Muhamad Ali to be remade, with Harley Quinn taking Ali's place. Neil Adams is on board for this one.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/neal-adams-to-redraw-superman-vs-muhammad-ali-with-harley-quinn-instorekickoff-conkickoff2016/

TurtleTitan97
03-05-2016, 03:55 PM
Superman vs Muhamad Ali to be remade, with Harley Quinn taking Ali's place. Neil Adams is on board for this one.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/neal-adams-to-redraw-superman-vs-muhammad-ali-with-harley-quinn-instorekickoff-conkickoff2016/

https://media.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/giphy.gif

myconius
03-05-2016, 04:49 PM
Superman vs Muhamad Ali to be remade, with Harley Quinn taking Ali's place. Neil Adams is on board for this one.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/05/neal-adams-to-redraw-superman-vs-muhammad-ali-with-harley-quinn-instorekickoff-conkickoff2016/

if Neal Adams is drawing it, then it at least needs my consideration!! :D

shuriken
03-06-2016, 02:23 AM
People don't get it, it didn't used to be like this. DC was great about consistency for years, they had ONE major reboot in 75 years, back in '86. Sometimes individual characters would have backstories "tidied up" or old stuff would be swept under the rug but all this recent retcon/reboot sh*t is 100% Dan DiDio and his cronies, who make every editorial decision based on Sales Panic. That guy is like the single worst thing to EVER happen to DC as an entity.

Anyone trying to get into reading DC comics would have no problem doing so if they ignored most everything before "Crisis on Infinite Earths", used that as a starting point, and just followed the company's line from 1986 through 2010. Everything between that is really not at all complicated, although a lot of stuff in the late-90s simply wasn't very good but it was still consistent and recognizable. None of the stuff they did in between like Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis really had a huge effect on any continuity, mostly just minor tweaks to things readers already knew but nothing world-breaking. And most people don't need to bother with anything pre-1986, anyway, the Silver/Bronze Age was pretty unrelentingly silly and all the best stuff is easily found in TPBs, and the rest is junk best left ignored anyway.

Point is, DC really DID have a great universe, and a great mythology, that really anyone should get into and enjoy, BUT that Universe starts at Crisis and dissolves at the end of Flashpoint. But you really can't go wrong with the 25-year run in between. They've done nothing at ALL since 2010 that I've enjoyed, but I still highly encourage anyone to check out the "real" DCU from 1986-2010. For one thing, all the cartoons everyone jerks off to borrowed 99% of their stories from the books of that era, so if nothing else it's worth it to see where those stories first came from.

The constant shift towards "It's not selling? REBOOT!" since about 2005 is all DiDio. The editors and not the writers have been steering DC the wrong way for a decade, because ALL they care about is beating Marvel in sales which means "Events, Reboots, and Mega-Deaths of Major Characters" because that's supposedly what pushes sales. DC's sales have NEVER actually supported that theory, but it's the one DiDio subscribes to and what every new direction is based on.

Comics would be more fun if they weren't now a business aimed at only at selling action figures. That's really all they are anymore. It's 100% profit-driven and not story-driven. Both companies are guilty of it, but Marvel was actually run (into the ground) by a toy company for a years and years, to the point people got used to it, and plus the writing hadn't been that company's focus in decades, anyway, they've always been more a "Superstar Artists on Big Event Books" comic company than a story-driven one. DC's line was always more story-driven, and once it became all about the Big Events that was the end. It took them so far away from what they were actually about as a company and the way they did super-hero books. Now they're literally no different from Marvel, and not in any good way.

So yeah, f*ck modern DC. If they're doing anything other than, "Just kidding about Flashpoint and the New 52, we're just pretending everything since 2009 never happened!", it's not worth the effort.

Yeah I really liked DC stuff from 86-2010
Mainly Batman and Green Lantern (I miss Raynar though :ohwell: )
But yeah after the New 52 I haven't gotten into it because everything I cared about was either condensed or didn't happen. I kinda feel after Blackest Night DC was like "Ok we brought a lot of main villains back and established more lanter corps. What should we do now. RETCON"
Terrible.

CyberCubed
03-07-2016, 07:45 PM
So now Batgirl was never paralyzed by Joker. So the whole timeline officially makes no sense anymore.

The least they could do is make Jason Todd and Damian dead again. No point in bringing those two back.

MikeandRaph87
03-07-2016, 08:47 PM
So now Batgirl was never paralyzed by Joker. So the whole timeline officially makes no sense anymore.

The least they could do is make Jason Todd and Damian dead again. No point in bringing those two back.

We actually agree here. Keep the boys dead.

However,as long as Barbara is Batgirl in the current it does not matter if she was shot or not.

Why is Harely Quinn headlining a team up book? Recreating the Superman/Ali oneshot as well? What pipe is DC smoking? :trazz: Then again we live in a work where some crazed person thinks a female Ghostbusters film and a wrapped series like MIB can crossover with the completely unrelated face take on the 21 Jump Street Dramedy is not a pipe dream but a marketable and successful film concept. *shrugs*

CyberCubed
03-07-2016, 09:01 PM
And people wonder why I stick to the cartoons, when at least there you get a cohesive narrative and then the series comes to an end. And then they do a reboot which has no ties to the previous series as a fresh start.

Cartoons have a clear beginning and an end. Then they make a new show. Comics are just one continuous screw-up of messed up continuity and retcons.

Spike Spiegel
03-07-2016, 09:04 PM
Cartoons have a clear beginning and an end. Then they make a new show. Comics are just one continuous screw-up of messed up continuity and retcons.

The best example of this I can think of is how Jean Grey was supposed to stay dead after the Dark Phoenix Saga.

We all know how that worked out...

CyberCubed
03-07-2016, 09:08 PM
Indeed, and instead you can watch 3 different modern X-men cartoons:

- X-men 90's

- X-men Evolution

- Wolverine and the X-men

Which all have separate continuities and come to a close. I know the last one got canceled on a cliffhanger but you get what I mean. You don't have to sit through 20 years of retcons, they're different shows.

Same for Batman and everything else.

myconius
03-07-2016, 09:35 PM
i was under the impression that they've been trying to remove Killing Joke from canon years, even though it's how Barbara became paralyzed?

but now if Killing Joke isn't actually canon then it's probably safe to say it's one of the best Elseworlds tale ever made!

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-07-2016, 10:16 PM
i was under the impression that they've been trying to remove Killing Joke from canon years, even though it's how Barbara became paralyzed?

but now if Killing Joke isn't actually canon then it's probably safe to say it's one of the best Elseworlds tale ever made!

Well, I mean, it was supposed to be Elseworlds or non-canon originally.

I dunno, I have mixed feelings about it. It was absolutely a stellar standout example of "women in refrigerators", but it opened up so much character development for Babs and also opened up the role of Batgirl to become a legacy mantle, same as Robin.

So while it might have been done for simple shock value, so much great stuff came out of it. And hell, DC might as well go ahead and undo it... they haven't gotten a damn thing right in the New 52 Bat-family except for Scott Snyder. That's it.

sdp
03-07-2016, 10:33 PM
The problem with comics is they refuse to move on, they're so invested with characters and are afraid to ever really change anything to make any real changes. This worked in the early days of comics but comic book time can only be kept for so long before things like what is happening happens. Comic nerds love legacy but they also love the original characters and you can't have both. Japan does this very well, so while you can't have an icon as big as the Superman/Spiderman/Batman you get new fresh faces and legacy. I understand both sides I mean if all these reboots didn't happen then I wouldn't have experienced the "original" characters in comics since they would've all been replaced long ago, however some of my favorite stuff about comics were things that changed the status quo and characters aged and seeing the future of those universes. I mean how many Robins can Bruce have while still technically being in his 30s.

I think the Earth 1 and Earth 2 idea was a great one. It gave the old characters a chance to age and move on while also giving them a clean slate in the other Earth. I loved the idea of the epic that was Crisis on infinite Earths even if it was a big mess of a crossover. What they really should've done with infinite crisis about a decade ago is re-create that, instead of this N52 crap you should've created a new multiverse again with Earth 1 being the "new 52" and starting over for the most part for new fans only taking small parts of continuity here and there and having "Earth 2" which was the now "old" DCU and now you could really take chances and have characters move on in this universe keeping fans of the old continuity happy with new stories while keeping people who only want the "classic" versions also happy with a new spin on them, its a win-win scenario instead of whatever the hell Marvel and DC are doing that just pisses off everyone.

myconius
03-08-2016, 12:30 AM
Well, I mean, it was supposed to be Elseworlds or non-canon originally.

I dunno, I have mixed feelings about it. It was absolutely a stellar standout example of "women in refrigerators", but it opened up so much character development for Babs and also opened up the role of Batgirl to become a legacy mantle, same as Robin.

So while it might have been done for simple shock value, so much great stuff came out of it. And hell, DC might as well go ahead and undo it... they haven't gotten a damn thing right in the New 52 Bat-family except for Scott Snyder. That's it.

i was buying everything Batman/Gotham Related before they did the New 52 reboot, and kept up with every Gotham title afterwards.

a few of them were SO bad i dropped them early on and sold them in lots for peanuts.

the ones i kept, i recently thumbed through .... the writing is SO bad it makes me want to puke in my mouth!!

i have to admit though, Gail Simone's early run of New 52 Babs was really good! i still have those issues.

ZariusTwo
03-08-2016, 06:07 AM
The best example of this I can think of is how Jean Grey was supposed to stay dead after the Dark Phoenix Saga.

We all know how that worked out...

Marvel tried "fixing" that by killing her off again in Morrison's run, that stuck for a long time, then Bendis brought a teenage Jean from the past over to the present, which causes a whole load of other problems.

myconius
03-08-2016, 07:00 AM
Marvel tried "fixing" that by killing her off again in Morrison's run, that stuck for a long time, then Bendis brought a teenage Jean from the past over to the present, which causes a whole load of other problems.

he'd have been better off cloning her, or just doing the ol' shameless resurrection trick!

one of the most baffling and irksome bits of comic writing i have ever read was in Judd Winick's 'Batman Under the Hood'.

Jason Todd has mysteriously risen from the grave, and Batman visits bot Superman & Oliver Queen to ask them what it was like coming back from the dead.

and the actual explanation of how Jason came back .... Superboy trapped in some other dimension, punching a big pink glowey forcefield???
first time reading i was like - "HUBBA WHAAAAAA???????" :o

Sumac
03-08-2016, 11:13 AM
So the whole timeline officially makes no sense anymore.
That's how I think of comic books from the big two, and that's why I can not get into them.

Jason Todd has mysteriously risen from the grave, and Batman visits bot Superman & Oliver Queen to ask them what it was like coming back from the dead.

and the actual explanation of how Jason came back .... Superboy trapped in some other dimension, punching a big pink glowey forcefield???
first time reading i was like - "HUBBA WHAAAAAA???????" :o
All of my "yes!!".
I found the whole thing so funny and nonsensical.

myconius
03-08-2016, 12:03 PM
That's how I think of comic books from the big two, and that's why I can not get into them.


All of my "yes!!".
I found the whole thing so funny and nonsensical.

yeah, i REEEEEALLY had NO clue what the heck that Superboy mumbo jumbo was all about???
i STILL don't!!! :lol:

it's so true about DC and Marvel!! they shuffle through SO many writers like musical chairs!!!
how could they POSSIBLY keep their stories straight???

as soon as a creative team is done with an arc or two, editorial yanks them off and tosses them onto another title! (or just kicks them to the curb?)

it's not at all about personal creativity for them.
they're dealing with established characters that have been around for years, and every new writer wants to "LEAVE THEIR MARK" on the character.
...and that's usually never a good thing!!!! :P

and i think one of the WORST mistakes they make is when they put writer's on a character that know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING bout the character they are writing, and could probably give a CRAP either!!!!
that where horrific turds like 'Batman Cult' get written!! :trolleye:

sorry! i didn't mean to ramble on like that! :lol:
it's just that i've seen favorite characters from BOTH big companies get doggie dumped ALL over, so it's can be a touchy subject. :D

that's why it's such a relief when you get a hold of a good creator owned independent comic that the writer was truly inspired, and had a story they wanted to tell! :D
not just some clock puncher merely going through the motions to get it done and over with.

Sumac
03-08-2016, 03:57 PM
There, there.
I don't really understand why its happening: in theory editors should look over writing process and order writers not to mess too much with established characters, but in reality, nobody gives a **** and everyone do whatever they want.

I understand that some writers want to tell good stories, which could not fit into present continuity, but that what Elseworlds / What Ifs are for. Ruining the whole continuity only because somebody has different ideas of how things should be, is a bad idea.

CyberCubed
03-08-2016, 07:48 PM
I just wish the whole comic book industry would crash and burn.

myconius
03-08-2016, 08:03 PM
if the big comic companies perish then so will all the little independent ones as well.

and what a dull world it'd be then.

sdp
03-08-2016, 10:50 PM
The industry crashed and burned nearly two decades ago, it now has a diminishing niche market that will continue to get smaller overtime. I do think eventually DC and Marvel will stop making comics but not for many years but I can see them in just a decade only having a handful of titles instead of all the ones they have now since they just make more money on TV shows and movies.

Smaller companies will likely never go away, they go for a niche audience and that's enough for them to survive. Now comics will likely never be as big as they were, to me they missed the chance with digital. They should've been there day 1 with tablets having comics very cheap, I'm talking like $0.99 or less per new title to get new readers. You can still charge the normal price for the niche market that buys physical but you get new readers online, tons of them. They've kind of gone that direction very slowly but its too little too late.

myconius
03-09-2016, 07:27 AM
The industry crashed and burned nearly two decades ago, it now has a diminishing niche market that will continue to get smaller overtime. I do think eventually DC and Marvel will stop making comics but not for many years but I can see them in just a decade only having a handful of titles instead of all the ones they have now since they just make more money on TV shows and movies.

Smaller companies will likely never go away, they go for a niche audience and that's enough for them to survive. Now comics will likely never be as big as they were, to me they missed the chance with digital. They should've been there day 1 with tablets having comics very cheap, I'm talking like $0.99 or less per new title to get new readers. You can still charge the normal price for the niche market that buys physical but you get new readers online, tons of them. They've kind of gone that direction very slowly but its too little too late.

but i really think Digital is one of the things that's actually helping keep it all afloat?

ultimately, time will tell how things will go?

ZariusTwo
03-09-2016, 01:22 PM
Superman's all jaunty again following issue 50....kind of creepy seeing this version of him crack a smile:ohwell:

myconius
03-09-2016, 08:39 PM
the solution was kinda out of left field, and seemed pretty easy.

as i was reading it i was like "...oooooookayyyyyyyy?"

ZariusTwo
03-10-2016, 03:03 PM
JL#50 has been delayed until the May 25th, the date DC Rebirth is set to launch

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/10/will-there-be-a-justice-league-51-let-alone-a-52/

ZariusTwo
03-10-2016, 03:44 PM
KBiGOqQXbuE

myconius
03-10-2016, 08:20 PM
JL#50 has been delayed until the May 25th, the date DC Rebirth is set to launch

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/10/will-there-be-a-justice-league-51-let-alone-a-52/

guess i should be happy i dropped Justice League then?
i was enjoying it in the beginning of the run, but then it just became one unenjoyable cross-over after another. a real shame!

ZariusTwo
03-17-2016, 01:02 PM
Up to three different art teams could be tackling each bi-weekly book

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/17/dc-comics-rebirth-bi-weekly-comics-to-have-up-to-three-art-teams/

CyberCubed
03-17-2016, 01:18 PM
The entire comic book industry outside of indies and smaller publishers needs to crash and burn.

myconius
03-17-2016, 01:28 PM
The entire comic book industry outside of indies and smaller publishers needs to crash and burn.

but you don't buy comics? what are you worried about? :lol:

myconius
03-17-2016, 01:30 PM
Up to three different art teams could be tackling each bi-weekly book

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/17/dc-comics-rebirth-bi-weekly-comics-to-have-up-to-three-art-teams/

that's relieving news.

just hopefully it won't be ANY of the artists that have been on Batman & Robin Eternal??? :lol:

ZariusTwo
03-17-2016, 01:45 PM
Just heard DC's new exclusives are Steve Orlando and Doc Shaner

myconius
03-17-2016, 02:07 PM
Just heard DC's new exclusives are Steve Orlando and Doc Shaner

Evan Shaner and Jesus Merino are definitely decent artists!

they'll probably be on one of the Superman titles?

ZariusTwo
03-21-2016, 12:19 PM
Scott Synder reportedly no longer writing Detective Comics, but a third Batman title focusing more on the rouges' gallery. Apparently DC did not want Synder overshadowing Tom King's debut on Batman

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/21/the-nature-of-scott-snyders-new-batman-comic-for-dc-comics-rebirth/

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-21-2016, 12:42 PM
Scott Synder reportedly no longer writing Detective Comics, but a third Batman title focusing more on the rouges' gallery. Apparently DC did not want Synder overshadowing Tom King's debut on Batman

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/21/the-nature-of-scott-snyders-new-batman-comic-for-dc-comics-rebirth/

For real!? The ONLY consistently successful Batman writer of the New 52 and they aren't using him?

Unbelievable.

myconius
03-21-2016, 12:59 PM
Scott Synder reportedly no longer writing Detective Comics, but a third Batman title focusing more on the rouges' gallery. Apparently DC did not want Synder overshadowing Tom King's debut on Batman

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/21/the-nature-of-scott-snyders-new-batman-comic-for-dc-comics-rebirth/

i had a feeling Snyder wasn't actually going back to Detective once it was announced to be bi-weekly as well.

i'm glad he is getting a Batman book, and also glad it's not going to be pushed on us twice a month.

DC really burned him out!!!!
he's probably sick to death of having to jump through hoops for them, putting on their dog and pony show?

it all falls on Tom King's shoulders now.
good luck dude! you're gonna need it!

ZariusTwo
03-23-2016, 04:57 AM
Some teasers are coming out now

http://i.imgur.com/33cg1VG.png

Redemption (https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/712461917411934208)

myconius
03-23-2016, 09:56 PM
Some teasers are coming out now

http://i.imgur.com/33cg1VG.png

Redemption (https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/712461917411934208)

i just hope Batman isn't wearing the suit that Greg Capullo put him in for Batman issue #50???

that new suit is worse than dog farts!!!

ZariusTwo
03-24-2016, 11:09 AM
Intrerview with Didio ahead of the big launch

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dc-comics-co-publisher-talks-revealing-rebirth-pla/1100-6435966/

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-24-2016, 11:26 AM
Man, Batman #50 was TERRIBLE.

Giant Bloom versus Giant Robo-Bat but it's BRUCE in this one? Terrible story... the only good parts were Bloom before he turned into Bloomzilla (he was actually a pretty interesting character) and the Joker/Bruce stuff.

MAN, that Joker/Bruce stuff. :tgrin:

myconius
03-24-2016, 12:51 PM
Man, Batman #50 was TERRIBLE.

Giant Bloom versus Giant Robo-Bat but it's BRUCE in this one? Terrible story... the only good parts were Bloom before he turned into Bloomzilla (he was actually a pretty interesting character) and the Joker/Bruce stuff.

MAN, that Joker/Bruce stuff. :tgrin:

DUDE I KNOW RIGHT???
i bought TWO frikken copies of that crap!!!! TWO!!!!!
i've been collecting this series since #1 and like to sometimes get doubles of major issues that i plan on reading the hell out of and still have a mint copy for my collection.
MAN!!! what a stinker!!!! >.<

the whole issue it was like Bloom just kept magically pulling new powers out of his POSTERIOR!!!

i don't think i'd be AS upset if we didn't get stuck with that horrible costume!!
i'd rather Bruce went back to the dang Zero-Year costume than that!!!

i'll be Capullo designed that costume as a parting joke???
like- "HA HA! i've leaving the book! now you're all stuck with drawing this hideous costume!!"

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-24-2016, 01:51 PM
Some teasers are coming out now

http://i.imgur.com/33cg1VG.png

Redemption (https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/712461917411934208)

So I can't identify anybody except Flash, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. Who do you think everyone else is?

ZariusTwo
03-24-2016, 02:23 PM
So I can't identify anybody except Flash, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. Who do you think everyone else is?

I don't follow GL so no idea who the female Lantern is. Harley Quinn and Killer Croc are in there. Maybe Donna Troy or Starfire flying above?

Omnibus of Rebirth coming for Christmas...so...no need to get it over summer?:ohwell:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/24/dc-comics-rebirth-omnibus-for-december/

The Super-Sons revealed: Damien and John from Lois and Clark

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/167/110/original/rebirth-supersons.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/28539-superboy-robin-female-gl-suicide-squad-more-teased-in-dc-rebirth-videos.html

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-24-2016, 02:41 PM
I don't follow GL so no idea who the female Lantern is. Harley Quinn and Killer Croc are in there. Maybe Donna Troy or Starfire flying above?

Omnibus of Rebirth coming for Christmas...so...no need to get it over summer?:ohwell:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/24/dc-comics-rebirth-omnibus-for-december/

The Super-Sons revealed: Damien and John from Lois and Clark

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/167/110/original/rebirth-supersons.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/28539-superboy-robin-female-gl-suicide-squad-more-teased-in-dc-rebirth-videos.html

That's a helluva bizarre lineup. :tgrumble:

myconius
03-24-2016, 03:16 PM
I don't follow GL so no idea who the female Lantern is. Harley Quinn and Killer Croc are in there. Maybe Donna Troy or Starfire flying above?

Omnibus of Rebirth coming for Christmas...so...no need to get it over summer?:ohwell:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/24/dc-comics-rebirth-omnibus-for-december/

The Super-Sons revealed: Damien and John from Lois and Clark

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/167/110/original/rebirth-supersons.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/28539-superboy-robin-female-gl-suicide-squad-more-teased-in-dc-rebirth-videos.html

The Super-Sons looks very promising!!!!

i wonder if the female Green Lantern is Jessica Cruz/Power Ring from the New 52 Justice League/Forever Evil storyline?

http://comicnewbies.com/2014/06/26/the-new-power-ring-new-52/

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m3vCz4WIKFLHpiCrW_mLXmweXNPjmDPE7vnkPOw0QFIC

CyberCubed
03-24-2016, 04:04 PM
So the best they could come up with is Super kids? Why do I get the feeling I've seen this concept done before.

myconius
03-24-2016, 04:15 PM
So the best they could come up with is Super kids? Why do I get the feeling I've seen this concept done before.

i'll probably check it out?

after they scrapped Batman & Robin and now did away with Damian's Solo book, i'd have to either read this or Teen Titans to keep up with the character.

and after the horror show that was The New 52 Teen Titans i'm going to avoid that one swiftly!

ZariusTwo
03-24-2016, 04:18 PM
So the best they could come up with is Super kids? Why do I get the feeling I've seen this concept done before.

The Super-Sons is a pretty old idea from the Silver Age.

TurtleTitan97
03-25-2016, 11:42 AM
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WmzlsyeywbU/VvVj2S2qKoI/AAAAAAAAByo/OPezXs1lDGUJSTGW1ca3Geqe0_UX4OhtA/w531-h332-no/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-03-25%2Bat%2B12.13.14%2BPM.png

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-25-2016, 11:47 AM
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WmzlsyeywbU/VvVj2S2qKoI/AAAAAAAAByo/OPezXs1lDGUJSTGW1ca3Geqe0_UX4OhtA/w531-h332-no/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-03-25%2Bat%2B12.13.14%2BPM.png

Holy crap, BATMAN AND SUPERMAN!!!! :teek: :tlol:

ZariusTwo
03-25-2016, 12:35 PM
At least Clark lost the collar