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View Full Version : [Question] How do you join private threads such as The Volcanic Astroid?


Foombamaroom
01-24-2016, 02:10 PM
Just wondering.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-24-2016, 02:24 PM
Just wondering.

I've wondered the same... I think it's Mods/Admins only, but not sure.

Powder
01-24-2016, 02:26 PM
That sub-section no longer exists, there's nothing to join. Private areas are not a thing.

snake
01-24-2016, 03:15 PM
No one posts there. It's dead.

Candy Kappa
01-24-2016, 03:42 PM
It was a experiment to introduce a sub-forum where people could discuss politics, religion and other topics of a volatile nature.

It didn't go so well and got locked, and that's that, nothing more mystical or secretive a about it.

CyberCubed
01-24-2016, 04:15 PM
You can pretty much make social groups now to discuss the same thing anyway

Aaronardo
01-25-2016, 04:30 PM
A while back I (or someone else) asked a similar question. Apparently some older members can actually go in that forum still (but not post in there, obviously), as confirmed by... I wanna say Jester (this was before he became a mod), so... not sure.

Candy Kappa
01-25-2016, 04:34 PM
Of course, you can browse the threads in there, just like in the rest of the Disintegrator Unit section.

Powder
01-25-2016, 04:38 PM
You had to get permission to post there. Those of us who did can go back & view the stuff.

Candy Kappa
01-25-2016, 04:41 PM
Right, I forgot about that.

Foombamaroom
01-30-2016, 10:44 PM
Damn, I can already imagine the thread. But even better, I can imagine the thread NOW, especially with the Donald and Hillary issues going around outside of this thread lol.

Commenter 42
01-31-2016, 12:28 AM
I vote to re-open it.

Sure, it might get a little nuts, but so far, with far less moding, the forums are seemingly more stable. (That's not a knock against the mods, just an observation about people in general... people seem to pick their battles more carefully these days.)

But yeah, open discussions should be a thing.

Powder
01-31-2016, 12:29 AM
I vote hellllllll naaaaah.

Commenter 42
01-31-2016, 12:43 AM
I vote hellllllll naaaaah.

Why? How bad could it be?

Powder
01-31-2016, 12:48 AM
Here's an example, one of many quality threads (NSFW):

http://i66.tinypic.com/6hjm8o.png

Commenter 42
01-31-2016, 12:56 AM
Amazing how everything boils down to dick or dick jokes.
I suspect that's the elusive 98% of dark matter in the universe.

Foombamaroom
01-31-2016, 07:46 AM
Honestly, I think it's not that bad of an idea for us, but I can see how it'd be a bad idea for the mods. It'll either make everyone stay hostile in that area, or they'll bring the hostility with them to other section of the forum.

Leo656
01-31-2016, 08:00 AM
They tried to cut the problem off in advance by having some people be Mods just for that section, but predictably, some of them were petty and simply used their new position to further their personal vendettas with other members, since they had the power to do so. And yes, it caused more turmoil to spill over onto the main boards.

This place just isn't up to the task. The people here by and large, with few exceptions, aren't intelligent and/or mature enough to be "allowed" to discuss "controversial" things in public. I used to think so, but I was wrong, and no offense to some of the current crew, but most of the people who could conceivably hold their own in that kind of environment have LONG since abandoned this place. You people, on the other hand, can't even discuss CARTOONS in a civil manner, so forget things like politics, religion, sexuality, etc.

It just doesn't work. The current trend seems to be starting a Private Group and only letting people you like in, and then just talk about whatever you want.

Besides, after seeing a lot of posters' views on much more mundane and harmless things like cartoons and movies, I really, really, REALLY don't want to hear what they have to say about anything "important" or "controversial", and those kinds of topics inevitably lead to arguments, anyway, even when they're being discussed by people who DO know what they're talking about, so how the hell would it ever work with THIS crowd? THIS crowd, where people run and cry to the Mods whenever someone was "talking mean" at them. Yeah, let's let some of THOSE people talk about politics or whatever, I'm sure it'll be enlightening.

Bottom line, the people here can't take care of their Nice Things, thus, they don't deserve any.

Candy Kappa
01-31-2016, 08:01 AM
It got hostile, really really hostile. It's a reason for politics and religion is a no no on the 'Drime.

Leo656
01-31-2016, 08:12 AM
Color me SHOCKED that a group of (alleged) adults who share an obsession over something like TMNT might not be mature enough to have serious conversations over real-life issues without it quickly turning violent.

Here I thought that a 40-year-old eating cereal out of a Michelangelo cereal bowl and wearing TMNT PJs at three in the afternoon was gonna be able to eloquently debate and explain everything wrong with America's two-party system and how to correct it. The fact that these people collectively MAY not actually have much of worth to actually share on certain topics is completely astonishing.

Commenter 42
01-31-2016, 09:58 AM
Okay fine then. Just kill the dream why don't you.

Powder
01-31-2016, 10:52 AM
Here I thought that a 40-year-old eating cereal out of a Michelangelo cereal bowl and wearing TMNT PJs at three in the afternoon was gonna be able to eloquently debate and explain everything wrong with America's two-party system and how to correct it. The fact that these people collectively MAY not actually have much of worth to actually share on certain topics is completely astonishing.

Hey. Those of us who unfortunately sorta fit in with that description (I'm 25 but still) are far too disconnected from society to give a rats ass about politics. I gave up on humanity ages ago. :tlol: The ones getting up in arms about these topics are your real-world peers. Scary, huh?

snake
01-31-2016, 10:56 AM
I kinda want to see it reopen. Might be fun to watch.

Commenter 42
01-31-2016, 11:24 AM
Hey. Those of us who unfortunately sorta fit in with that description (I'm 25 but still) are far too disconnected from society to give a rats ass about politics. I gave up on humanity ages ago. :tlol: The ones getting up in arms about these topics are your real-world peers. Scary, huh?

I agree with you, humans suck, and most days, I'm embarrassed to be one.
At some point though, you need to come to terms with the reality, that although you may be done with the world, you still live in it.

You're a smart guy, I'm not going to tell you your business, but if I had to guess, I'd guess you'd be a Bernie Sanders guy. Just saying.

You're too young to really understand it, but Bush was the worst thing to happen to the US in the last 20 years. It fundamentally changed the country, and it was sad to watch. He won on apathy. Trump could do the same, and based on his ignorance, he could be ten times the disaster Bush was.

Powder
01-31-2016, 11:43 AM
I know a lot more than you give me credit for, my age doesn't factor into my knowledge, views, & insight. But this isn't a conversation we should be having (nor is it one I want to have).

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-31-2016, 03:14 PM
Color me SHOCKED that a group of (alleged) adults who share an obsession over something like TMNT might not be mature enough to have serious conversations over real-life issues without it quickly turning violent.

Here I thought that a 40-year-old eating cereal out of a Michelangelo cereal bowl and wearing TMNT PJs at three in the afternoon was gonna be able to eloquently debate and explain everything wrong with America's two-party system and how to correct it. The fact that these people collectively MAY not actually have much of worth to actually share on certain topics is completely astonishing.

Best statement I have ever read on the 'Drome, ever. EVER.

What if they were eating oatmeal out of a Raphael cereal bowl? Would that improve their credibility?

MikeandRaph87
01-31-2016, 03:23 PM
For some time I assumed it was where the deleted topics went yet that I the disintegrator unit's function. The 'volcanic asteroid' term always got me. Sure a location of the Technodrome, but not something to post about.

Thanks for the laugh, Leo. Stuff like that is for invite only group discussion. I remember those cereal bowls. I had a Mike and a Don back in my single digit age days.
http://img0.etsystatic.com/il_430xN.136345506.jpg

Candy Kappa
01-31-2016, 03:55 PM
Now I feel like I'm missing something in life. I don't own a TMNT cereal bowl, nor adult sized PJs. I'm not Ninja Turtleing correctly. :(


But I don't have that crazy American cereal either, marshmallows and food coloring in solid form. The craziest we have is like Frosties and Cocopuffs-ish stuff.

I think the crazies cereal I had was when I lived in UK, it was literally small chocolate chipped cookies.

Leo656
01-31-2016, 03:57 PM
Best statement I have ever read on the 'Drome, ever. EVER.

What if they were eating oatmeal out of a Raphael cereal bowl? Would that improve their credibility?

Depends what flavor oatmeal. Blueberry or Apple Cinnamon, they might have enough on the ball to carry an actual conversation. Otherwise they're a godless heathen with nothing important to say. Some things in life really are Just That Simple.


You're too young to really understand it, but Bush was the worst thing to happen to the US in the last 20 years. It fundamentally changed the country, and it was sad to watch. He won on apathy. Trump could do the same, and based on his ignorance, he could be ten times the disaster Bush was.

Part of me really wants Trump to win, for a very simple reason: It Doesn't Matter. The "job" is a Title, and that's it. The system is rigged, the country is REALLY controlled by the pharmaceutical, alcohol, and tobacco companies, as well as the fast food companies and Coca-Cola, who collectively have more than enough money to make sure they always get their way, no matter which asshole in a suit gets put in front of the cameras to assure the people that the system isn't a complete and total sham, which it absolutely is.

"They" own everything. They own the politicians. They own YOU. Every decision that gets made about what's legal and what isn't, and how you are gonna be "allowed" to live your life, isn't made in the Oval office, it's made in back rooms where corporate lobbyists give stacks of dirty cash to corrupt bureaucrats. If the government had any REAL power, then these billion-dollar companies wouldn't be allowed to even EXIST when their only source of profit is through killing people. That's the long and the short of it. None of this flag-waving nonsense matters. There is no "right side". The Democrats and Republicans are ALL bought and paid for, and they ultimately have no control at all over anything important.

That's why I kind of think Trump should win. I desperately, DESPERATELY want people to see, and to understand once and for all, that the "Process" is a joke, a fraud, a con game set up to keep people from giving in to despair and killing themselves, the way they surely would if they ever found out, in no uncertain terms, "It don't get no better than this. No, really, it doesn't, ever." I get WHY the fraud is necessary to maintain order, but it IS a fraud and a lie all the same, and it's very important that people know and understand this. I firmly believe, as I've made clear many times, that people cannot be allowed to persist in believing false information, no matter how much it comforts them and how painful the truth is. But there are people who think there are "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys" in this political game, instead of just a bunch of rich c***suckers who will do whatever it takes to keep themselves that way AND keep you down at the same time. They're ALL the Bad Guys.

Ultimately, whoever has the most money to spend and the ability to lie their ass off hardest, wins. We see that clear as day every four years. Trump winning would solidify that. People would finally understand, "Wait, this guy really DID just buy an election for the 'most powerful position' in the world, and he did it while talking a bunch of gibberish and nonsense that no sane person could believe!" Everyone, EVERYONE, would know without question that the fix was in. And then maybe they'd stop believing in The Lie, that their voices are actually being heard and their votes are making a difference. And then maybe there'd be a f*cking revolution, and after that, something actually resembling "progress" or "change". Because "The System", as it stands, simply does not work.

Or, more likely, maybe things would just keep going the way they've been, but people finally wouldn't be so goddamn self-righteous and idealist with their partisan nonsense, telling people why "their candidate" is a good and decent person but "yours" is a scumbag, as if any of them aren't pieces of sh*t by definition. But at least people could then just say, "Fine, we're f*cked," and get on with their lives. I mean people who believe in politics are worse than grown-ups who believe in Santa Claus or that wrestling is still real. You just want to shake them until they snap out of it, especially when they're otherwise intelligent, as many are.

So yeah. Trump winning would mean a collapse of the entire system, and THAT is something I've been looking forward to for decades. Plus, if it's not him it's Hillary, and I actually think she's even a worse human being than he is, from a different angle, but still, huge piece of sh*t who shouldn't be allowed near a position of power all the same, even as a figurehead. I'll always pick the Transparent Scumbag over the Scumbag Who Pretends They're A Decent Human Being, every time.

I say let Trump win. Let the system collapse and society tear itself apart until only the strong survive, OR let people admit they're simply sheep who want to be led and they don't genuinely care who's doing it, as long as they say all the right things. Just enough with the partisan sh*t and the lunacy in pretending any of it actually matters. Parties don't matter, it's Rich vs. Poor, and 100% of the politicians are rich, thus, they are not your friends, which means you shouldn't even think about them at all let alone support them.


I think the crazies cereal I had was when I lived in UK, it was literally small chocolate chipped cookies.

Haha, goddamn Cookie Crisp.:lol: Stuff like that and Count Chocula, I'm not even sure how legally you can call that "cereal" and not just "candy". :lol:

Candy Kappa
01-31-2016, 04:50 PM
As a non-English native speaker, I never gave the word Cereal too much thought. Like, to me it's just the English equivalent of the Norwegian term "Breakfast Mix", which includes all Kellogg's and Kellogg's like brands and maybe oatmeal.

It wasn't until recently when listening to Major Spoilers' Top 5 podcast where they had top 5 cereals, and one of them told about his childhood friend would save popcorn for the next day to have milk and sugar on. That Cereal is kinda a specific thing.

Powder
01-31-2016, 04:54 PM
I wasn't gonna go there but since Leo did, I'll just say, "same".

Leo656
01-31-2016, 05:06 PM
I "go there" so others no longer have to, my son. :tsmile:

Papenbrook
01-31-2016, 06:14 PM
I "go there" so others no longer have to, my son. :tsmile:

What do you mean by a "revolution" , Leo?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-31-2016, 06:24 PM
I "go there" so others no longer have to, my son. :tsmile:

For which we thank you.

I wasn't gonna go there but since Leo did, I'll just say, "same".

If today's political landscape was the topic of a fiction novel, nobody would buy it because current events are just so insanely bizarre. Truth truly is stranger than fiction.

MikeandRaph87
01-31-2016, 06:27 PM
What do you mean by a "revolution" , Leo?

BGLGzRXY5Bw

Just to add to the joke of this election I thought Trump running for president was just a joke on the Tonight Show because is always running his mouth and an easy target. It was two days later I saw it on other sources and it was for real. That suggest the way I took it that he is not a serious candidate and the joke that the elections have become in the 21st century.

Commenter 42
01-31-2016, 07:47 PM
I didn't mean any offence to Powder - more of an assumption based on his previous statement.

Personally, yeah, I agree, it's a rigged game, to an extent. That said, There are flavors of totalitarian crazy I can live with, and some I can't.

I still think the illusion of choice has a decent placebo effect, if nothing else.

Leo656
01-31-2016, 08:11 PM
Well, yeah, like I said, as Lovecraft believed, people have a complete inability to comprehend that life exists beyond their control, and they lose their sh*t completely when faced with overwhelming evidence that there may be forces at work which don't have their best interests at heart. Whether that be ginormous tentacle monsters that have existed since time immemorial, or secret cabals of rich corporate scumbags, people aren't mentally equipped to deal with the ultimate hopelessness of their situation.

Keeping people engaged by way of "political theater" is a way for people to pretend they're helping make decisions or at least affirming that they exist and that their wants/needs matter. Without it a lot of people would probably (definitely) just throw their hands up, scream "What's the point, then?!" and shuffle themselves off this mortal coil. Same as if someone conclusively proved a lack of any gods; for some people, in their head the only reason for existing is that they themselves are "Important", that reality functions as a narrative rather than a random sequence of meaningless events and that they in turn are an "Important Character" in that "Story". I find this to be rather arrogant, personally, but it helps people cope.

I get that, but I also have a feeling that MOST people would quickly get over it. Like, Neo's brain didn't melt when he found out about the Matrix, y'know?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-31-2016, 10:39 PM
This confirms it: Leo656 is a devout Cthulu cultist. I always knew...

Commenter 42
02-01-2016, 07:56 AM
Neo's brain didn't melt when he found out about the Matrix, y'know?

yeah, but he was "the one". He wasn't required to give up his own importance; instead it was magnified. That's how the brain works, it defends our views and ideas, constantly rationalizing on our behalf, least we go insane. The notion wouldn't melt his brain, it would supercharge it.
Everyone else was depressed as ****, chose to fight, or found a way to get plugged back in.

We may not have agency in our lives at all, and it's been proven over and over again that choice itself is an illusion; yet here we are, talking about it, as though we have the free will to do so.
Perhaps I don't really need the entire world to "wake up" at all, as I'm not sure it would be a better world to live in. I'm not sure I want every half-wit spending there days trying to come to terms with their raison d'etre; it's not particularly useful, especially when the resounding answer to almost any question about existence is "no". As you mentioned, society would absolutely break down, perhaps eventually giving rise to other ideologies that might be even more human-centric than this one. To be honest, I'm at the mid-point, my life is half over at best, so I'm not eager to give that possible future any gas. Y'all can wait till I leave the party to change the music.

If I go to the doctor, it's with purpose, in so much as I can divine purpose from any action I'm taking/am not taking/might have taken. He/she may or may not, give me an answer to a problem, or a coping mechanism that allows me to continue the march to the grave. Perhaps it's futile, since ultimately I'll be a decaying meat-sack 6 feet under, but right now , in this moment, I have a ouchie, and a bandaid might be good enough, between existential crises of existence. and maybe that's all life is.

Do I think "they" are controlling the election, to the extent that some of my friends think? Not really. If no one has any control or free will, then it's impossible that anyones will is at play (save for cthulhu, natch.). On a human level, I think we're all enablers, consciously or not. Captains of industry need a market, so we gave them their golden handcuffs, and they do what they do, and big money finds its way to people in power, and everything is corrupt.
But the election still happens, and some one wins and someone loses, just like, on an opening weekend, one movie will make the most money, and others will make less, and some will flop. Ultimately, people decide, in a limited way, what gets rewarded.

But no, the idea that we're all prisoners of some invisible hell - look around the world, there are far more successful and efficient means to that end.

Long story short, go bloody vote.

Speedy Cerviche
02-01-2016, 10:46 AM
Leo that was brilliant exactly what i think about this puppet show lol

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-01-2016, 10:54 AM
Leo that was brilliant exactly what i think about this puppet show lol

Another!? Man, two Cthulhu cultists is two too many.

Candy Kappa
02-01-2016, 10:59 AM
One can worship Cthulhu and the other can worship Hnarqu, that'll balance it out.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-01-2016, 11:08 AM
One can worship Cthulhu and the other can worship Hnarqu, that'll balance it out.

Dammit, you sent me to Wikipedia with that one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities

And unholy crap, but that's a lot of names.

plastroncafe
02-01-2016, 11:14 AM
Long story short, go bloody vote.

^^^
This.

Don't like the names you see on the ballot? Vote no confidence.
Or better yet, pull inspiration from Brewster's Millions, and vote None of the Above.

And for the love of she who will devour you whole, vote in your local elections.

Commenter 42
02-01-2016, 12:21 PM
@plastroncafe

http://i.imgur.com/v8uVSHi.gif

I made this just for you. <3

plastroncafe
02-01-2016, 12:49 PM
@plastroncafe

http://i.imgur.com/v8uVSHi.gif

I made this just for you. <3

:D!
I will treasure it always!

snake
02-01-2016, 01:43 PM
^^^
This.

Don't like the names you see on the ballot? Vote no confidence.
Or better yet, pull inspiration from Brewster's Millions, and vote None of the Above.

And for the love of she who will devour you whole, vote in your local elections.

Amen. Sadly I'm not 18 yet, so I cant vote.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-01-2016, 06:28 PM
I vote, yet it never made a darn bit of difference. We still have a Governor who thinks that the way to "fix" all our state's problems is to build a giant wall along the border and deny women any proper options for health issues like birth control or breast cancer all in the name of "stopping the godless abortionists!"

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-01-2016, 07:20 PM
Well, Duckie, any issues of personal politics or convictions aside, it doesn't matter a Splinter's butt what we vote:

Texas will ALWAYS be overwhelmingly Republican. Always. When it comes right down to it, the President is elected by a scant few counties (or, at best, states) that are up for grabs. Pretty much everywhere else in the country is always decided long before anything actually happens.

Texas = red
New York = blue

And on and on...

plastroncafe
02-01-2016, 07:26 PM
Just as a reminder:

There are elections every November. Not just every November of a Leap Year.
People seem to forget that a lot, and assume that their vote doesn't count, because the one election everyone talks about is the one that isn't decided by popular vote.

Local elections are just as, if not more, important than the Presidential. Those are the elections that decide things like...where your water comes from, and what state will it be in when it comes out of your faucet.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-01-2016, 07:37 PM
Just as a reminder:

There are elections every November. Not just every November of a Leap Year.
People seem to forget that a lot, and assume that their vote doesn't count, because the one election everyone talks about is the one that isn't decided by popular vote.

Local elections are just as, if not more, important than the Presidential. Those are the elections that decide things like...where your water comes from, and what state will it be in when it comes out of your faucet.

Or whether your city flushes more money down the crapper on pointless urban rail systems.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-01-2016, 09:05 PM
Well, Duckie, any issues of personal politics or convictions aside, it doesn't matter a Splinter's butt what we vote:

Texas will ALWAYS be overwhelmingly Republican. Always. When it comes right down to it, the President is elected by a scant few counties (or, at best, states) that are up for grabs. Pretty much everywhere else in the country is always decided long before anything actually happens.

Texas = red
New York = blue

And on and on...


Oh, BELIEVE me, I know. Makes me sad to be blue in a red state sometimes....


Just as a reminder:

There are elections every November. Not just every November of a Leap Year.
People seem to forget that a lot, and assume that their vote doesn't count, because the one election everyone talks about is the one that isn't decided by popular vote.

Local elections are just as, if not more, important than the Presidential. Those are the elections that decide things like...where your water comes from, and what state will it be in when it comes out of your faucet.


Ya don't say? It was the state elections and lower I was referring to. Unfortunately, I'm in the minority party in my state, so- yeah. Not much changes from my vote, one way or another.


Or whether your city flushes more money down the crapper on pointless urban rail systems.


Exactly. Or in my area, whether your own family has to let dang Railroad Commission backed fracking tear up their property. Just because someone else owns the mineral rights and decided to take a pay-off for a practice that only destroys the land values, depletes/taints the water table and denudes the landscape of soil and groundcover.

Leo656
02-01-2016, 10:56 PM
Voting goes entirely against a ton of my personal beliefs, especially about personal responsibility. I don't take undue credit NOR undue blame and I believe that is the way it should be. I also don't put my "stamp" on anything or anyone I don't believe in 100%. I don't befriend or spend time with people I don't respect. I don't work for people I don't respect. And I'm absolutely never going to endorse anyone I don't respect. My endorsement of a person, especially of a politician, implicitly suggests that I am supportive of their actions. And I will never put my name behind a professional liar. Period. I will not be responsible for whatever bullsh*t they inevitably do, so I'm not going to endorse them. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to help the power-hungry achieve their goals.

I do get what people are trying to say, I simply completely disagree and always will. You know how most people are like, "Wrestling is fake, what's the point of watching it?" And you can try and tell them that it's about the performance, the athleticism, the drama, etc., but really, they either get it or they don't, and you're never changing their minds. Well, my perspective on this is, "Politics is fake. The game is rigged, so why play it?" I have better sh*t to do. I'm not taking a day off of work to go give a thumbs-up to some rich c*cksucker who doesn't even know or care I exist, who isn't going to put one goddamn cent in my pocket or keep a roof over my family's heads.

From spending all day at the welfare office trying to get homeless assistance to getting drunk with local politicians after shows, I've dealt with "The System" and the people who run it from every conceivable angle since I was a little kid. And "The System" f*cking sucks, and nobody "in charge" gives a goddamn about you or me. I get to see these people with their guard down, and let me tell ya... it's a shame there's people who vote, who call what *I* do "fake". THOSE people are fake. You vote for them, you support that whole mess. Me? I abstain. There's far more than enough people taking their little census in November to keep the wheels spinning. I'm over on the sidelines rooting for the whole thing to collapse.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. See, I genuinely don't want things to keep going the way they've been. It doesn't work. "Society" is all an illusion, anyway, and every civilization inevitably tears itself apart from within. I'm actually really, REALLY looking forward to the end of the world, because actually getting to see it sounds super-interesting, so if society could actually start collapsing on itself sooner rather than later, that'd be great. Because there's this idea people have that we can somehow "fix things", and that's not possible. Humankind is on the downhill slide; why drag it out? Getting rid of the figurehead "leaders" and puppet "governments" would be a great way to light some fireworks.

So yeah, that's why I don't vote. Have fun with that, though. I'm sure you'll get everything you want and the system will completely correct itself once the "right people" finally get put in the right seats. I'd say wishing in one hand and sh*tting in the other has the exact same effect and you don't even have to leave your house, but hey, whatever makes you happy. :)

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 01:10 AM
Except that it's not about voting to give someone a thumbs up....

But the argument will just go round and round, and hell, nothing's going to change your mind.

Anyway, the thing about voting, is it's not just about you. Voting is about exercising your right to representation, but also supporting the others who actually want to see things change, just like you.
Obama, yeah, didn't deliver everything, but he made a difference, the kind of difference that Mitt Romney absolutely would not have made.
Sanders is looking to take the country in a drastically new direction, Folks are calling it socialism but it's not even close...ask anyone who lives outside the U.S. His propositions are liberal, at best.

Anyway, I thought we might all discus the topics, but we stumbled over the question of the question itself.

Good job class. TMNT PJ's for everybody.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 09:08 AM
Basically, the problem is this:

The average voter can only influence/impact local politics, which have an admittedly minimal impact on the political landscape as a whole. To influence/impact national politics takes a much longer time, as more and more changes in local politics gradually propagate further and further up the chain.

It's like rolling a boulder up a steep incline; it gets harder and takes longer at every step.

So from many people's perspective, voting is a waste of time. But without voting locally, you'll never have the chance to someday improve the national situation.

It's a stacked deck.

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 10:10 AM
Add to that the fact that American culture is not exactly known for having a good long game.

I'll take my small local wins, thanks. Small local wins gave me the opportunity to marry whomever I wanted years before the rest of the country stepped up.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 10:13 AM
Add to that the fact that American culture is not exactly known for having a good long game.

I'll take my small local wins, thanks. Small local wins gave me the opportunity to marry whomever I wanted years before the rest of the country stepped up.

Exactly. Considering nobody has an attention span of any longer than, say, the latest Netflix weekend marathon...

Still, I won't go so far as Leo. I'm in no hurry to end up playing Mad Max or Book of Eli in real life. :trazz:

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 10:23 AM
I get being burned out, but to try and pass off non-engagement like some sort of moral high ground is... Shortsighted. The game doesn't matter if you want to play, when it's already drafted you as a pawn.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 10:28 AM
I get being burned out, but to try and pass off non-engagement like some sort of moral high ground is... Shortsighted. The game doesn't matter if you want to play, when it's already drafted you as a pawn.

I don't see it that way; you can support your own values and any (if any exist) candidates that measure up, or you can be strategic and compromise to lend support to what you perceive as the lesser of two evils.

I do think abstaining from local elections is a far cry and a great deal more harmful than abstaining from national elections, though. Realistically, local is the only place you can have any influence.

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 10:35 AM
National elections are the long game. You can have affect, but you have to be in it for the haul.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 10:36 AM
National elections are the long game. You can have affect, but you have to be in it for the haul.

Maybe it's different where you live, but for me, it's pretty much a given every two years. It'll always be the Republican, no matter if it's senator, congressman, or president.

Prowler
02-02-2016, 10:46 AM
Depends what flavor oatmeal. Blueberry or Apple Cinnamon, they might have enough on the ball to carry an actual conversation. Otherwise they're a godless heathen with nothing important to say. Some things in life really are Just That Simple.



Part of me really wants Trump to win, for a very simple reason: It Doesn't Matter. The "job" is a Title, and that's it. The system is rigged, the country is REALLY controlled by the pharmaceutical, alcohol, and tobacco companies, as well as the fast food companies and Coca-Cola, who collectively have more than enough money to make sure they always get their way, no matter which asshole in a suit gets put in front of the cameras to assure the people that the system isn't a complete and total sham, which it absolutely is.

"They" own everything. They own the politicians. They own YOU. Every decision that gets made about what's legal and what isn't, and how you are gonna be "allowed" to live your life, isn't made in the Oval office, it's made in back rooms where corporate lobbyists give stacks of dirty cash to corrupt bureaucrats. If the government had any REAL power, then these billion-dollar companies wouldn't be allowed to even EXIST when their only source of profit is through killing people. That's the long and the short of it. None of this flag-waving nonsense matters. There is no "right side". The Democrats and Republicans are ALL bought and paid for, and they ultimately have no control at all over anything important.

That's why I kind of think Trump should win. I desperately, DESPERATELY want people to see, and to understand once and for all, that the "Process" is a joke, a fraud, a con game set up to keep people from giving in to despair and killing themselves, the way they surely would if they ever found out, in no uncertain terms, "It don't get no better than this. No, really, it doesn't, ever." I get WHY the fraud is necessary to maintain order, but it IS a fraud and a lie all the same, and it's very important that people know and understand this. I firmly believe, as I've made clear many times, that people cannot be allowed to persist in believing false information, no matter how much it comforts them and how painful the truth is. But there are people who think there are "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys" in this political game, instead of just a bunch of rich c***suckers who will do whatever it takes to keep themselves that way AND keep you down at the same time. They're ALL the Bad Guys.

Ultimately, whoever has the most money to spend and the ability to lie their ass off hardest, wins. We see that clear as day every four years. Trump winning would solidify that. People would finally understand, "Wait, this guy really DID just buy an election for the 'most powerful position' in the world, and he did it while talking a bunch of gibberish and nonsense that no sane person could believe!" Everyone, EVERYONE, would know without question that the fix was in. And then maybe they'd stop believing in The Lie, that their voices are actually being heard and their votes are making a difference. And then maybe there'd be a f*cking revolution, and after that, something actually resembling "progress" or "change". Because "The System", as it stands, simply does not work.

Or, more likely, maybe things would just keep going the way they've been, but people finally wouldn't be so goddamn self-righteous and idealist with their partisan nonsense, telling people why "their candidate" is a good and decent person but "yours" is a scumbag, as if any of them aren't pieces of sh*t by definition. But at least people could then just say, "Fine, we're f*cked," and get on with their lives. I mean people who believe in politics are worse than grown-ups who believe in Santa Claus or that wrestling is still real. You just want to shake them until they snap out of it, especially when they're otherwise intelligent, as many are.

So yeah. Trump winning would mean a collapse of the entire system, and THAT is something I've been looking forward to for decades. Plus, if it's not him it's Hillary, and I actually think she's even a worse human being than he is, from a different angle, but still, huge piece of sh*t who shouldn't be allowed near a position of power all the same, even as a figurehead. I'll always pick the Transparent Scumbag over the Scumbag Who Pretends They're A Decent Human Being, every time.

I say let Trump win. Let the system collapse and society tear itself apart until only the strong survive, OR let people admit they're simply sheep who want to be led and they don't genuinely care who's doing it, as long as they say all the right things. Just enough with the partisan sh*t and the lunacy in pretending any of it actually matters. Parties don't matter, it's Rich vs. Poor, and 100% of the politicians are rich, thus, they are not your friends, which means you shouldn't even think about them at all let alone support them.



Haha, goddamn Cookie Crisp.:lol: Stuff like that and Count Chocula, I'm not even sure how legally you can call that "cereal" and not just "candy". :lol:
I also wouldn't mind seeing Trump winning. Not for what you've mentioned, but for teh lulz. I bet he'd have a lot of funny moments. Politics are a circus already, so at least let me enjoy a clown that makes me laugh instead of making me angry.

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 12:00 PM
I think Trump might be a fun dinner guest - an oddball with goofy talking points, and the life of the party...if your over 60. He's a second tier bully; the bully you get when real alpha's are away.

Is he Presidential? Of course not, he's too reactionary.
Clinton is 2faced and while I'm all for a female president - she's just not it.
Rubio is a brown nosing upstart, and the second last to picked for kickball.
Cruz is a super religious freak and possibly a pedo
Carson needs a nap, and possibly to change his meds.
Bush is the last guy to get picked for kickball.

Everyone else is just background noise, except for Sanders, who, might die day 1. If he wasn't so old, he'd be the clear choice, but he's not...so...

At least Obama looked presidential while he was campaigning. He might be a little stiff, but he has grace and tact. This is the biggest ****-show we've had in a very long time.

The Deadman
02-02-2016, 12:05 PM
Bernie Sanders is like the cool grandfather that will give you everything without working hard for it. I think that's why minorities and college kids love him so much, he's willing to give them everything for essentially nothing because THE REAL WORLD IS HARD.

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 12:14 PM
Maybe it's different where you live, but for me, it's pretty much a given every two years. It'll always be the Republican, no matter if it's senator, congressman, or president.

Republicans get good traction where I am, they're just way more liberal than I imagine the standard average Republican is.

Which isn't to say I vote for them.
I try not to vote against my own self interest whenever possible, so that means no GOP.

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 12:19 PM
Bernie Sanders is like the cool grandfather that will give you everything without working hard for it. I think that's why minorities and college kids love him so much, he's willing to give them everything for essentially nothing because THE REAL WORLD IS HARD.

Free education is a terrible idea. Keeping the poor ignorant is the better plan, clearly. The good jobs are only for rich kids, everybody else should stay in their place. Information should come at a premium.

Healthcare should bankrupt you. It's you're fault you're sick.

Did I get your reasoning correct?

The Deadman
02-02-2016, 12:53 PM
Free education is a terrible idea. Keeping the poor ignorant is the better plan, clearly. The good jobs are only for rich kids, everybody else should stay in their place. Information should come at a premium.

Healthcare should bankrupt you. It's you're fault you're sick.

Did I get your reasoning correct?

Im talking about it favoring the people that dont work for anything. I said that right here:

will give you everything without working hard for it.

Im talking about the people that are willingly mooching off the govt because they feel they're entitled to it.

"The good jobs are only for rich kids"

No, the good jobs are for the people that are willing to bust their ass day in and day out and EARN that well paying job. Why should some lazy slob complaining about someone holding them back be given a decent job just because? I mean, i guess if you're all for giving handouts to people that dont like to earn anything more power to you. As a matter of fact let's just make everything free. Free education, free housing, free transportation! Who needs to do anything when it's all right there for you on a silver platter.

Powder
02-02-2016, 01:05 PM
Bernie Sanders is like the cool grandfather that will give you everything without working hard for it. I think that's why minorities and college kids love him so much, he's willing to give them everything for essentially nothing because THE REAL WORLD IS HARD.

You basically just said non-whites don't put in any effort. Good to know where you stand! I like when people are up front about how terrible they are, saves us a lot of time.

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 01:07 PM
As a matter of fact let's just make everything free. Free education, free housing, free transportation! Who needs to do anything when it's all right there for you on a silver platter.


1. That's a great idea.

2. You sound really bitter.

3. You put a whole lot of words in my mouth, and the same with Sanders. Free education is not a free life. It's removing a financial roadblock, and leveling the playing field; what you do with the education is up to you, and getting an education is hard work all on it's own. You shouldn't be forced down a road simply because you grew up poor, or went to a low grade school.

4. Try to bring more than that chip on your shoulder to the argument, unless your only interested in shutting the discussion down in general, in which case,
you can show yourself out. Keep a cool head or be quiet.

Powder
02-02-2016, 01:09 PM
This is a prime example of why The Volcanic Asteroid & threads it contained just don't work here. Y'all went ahead & started up a political conversation anyway, & now it's turned into a sh*t-fest.

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 01:12 PM
This is a prime example of why The Volcanic Asteroid & threads it contained just don't work here. Y'all went ahead & started up a political conversation anyway, & now it's turned into a sh*t-fest.

I will tame it. These are important things to talk about, especially in a place like this, specifically because there are people who think like this, and need an education.

Candy Kappa
02-02-2016, 01:15 PM
I'm just gonna sit here with some popcorn, free healthcare and education.

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 01:16 PM
I'm just gonna sit here with some popcorn, free healthcare and education.

Right? lol... YOU LAZY SLOB!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 01:18 PM
This is a prime example of why The Volcanic Asteroid & threads it contained just don't work here. Y'all went ahead & started up a political conversation anyway, & now it's turned into a sh*t-fest.

Fully 100% on board with this opinion. This right here.

Might as well start roasting marshmallows over this blossoming flame war.

Powder
02-02-2016, 01:30 PM
I will tame it. These are important things to talk about, especially in a place like this, specifically because there are people who think like this, and need an education.

Speaking as a forum slug, people who need a place like this in their life are usually beyond help in the first place, be it socially, politically, romantically, financially, whatever. With 20,000+ posts & a few white hairs on my young head, I've learned that the hard way. You see a nut on here, you gotta accept they're gonna be a nut forever. Mind you, I don't say that as if it doesn't apply to me, I have self awareness, unlike some of the other resident characters. :trazz:

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 01:31 PM
Fully 100% on board with this opinion. This right here.

Might as well start roasting marshmallows over this blossoming flame war.

We can be adults. We can do it. These are the important issues, not how man cheerleaders are hired for TMNT 2.

...


I know, I set you up - go ahead... say it...

Speaking as a forum slug, people who need a place like this in their life are usually beyond help in the first place, be it socially, politically, romantically, financially, whatever. With 20,000+ posts & a few white hairs on my young head, I've learned that the hard way.

I know, i really do, but I have hope. if we can have an out and out slugfest over degendering public spaces, we can easily get through a ridiculous political season without too many bruises.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 01:39 PM
We can be adults. We can do it. These are the important issues, not how man cheerleaders are hired for TMNT 2.

...


I know, I set you up - go ahead... say it...



I know, i really do, but I have hope. if we can have an out and out slugfest over degendering public spaces, we can easily get through a ridiculous political season without too many bruises.

It's a TMNT forum. Trying to discuss serious life situations for any length of time always crashes and burns. Always.

I've found in my life that whenever I discuss things (politics, religion, sexuality, etc) that people don't agree on, it always devolves into this sensitive little box that nobody will touch. Because it always opens up the same old arguments and we never change our beliefs.

I think it's impossible to change other people's minds; you can only wait for them to change their minds themselves. If they're mature, they'll be open to the possibility and independently solicit other opinions or beliefs. Trying to change them yourself is usually exclusively a failure.

Powder
02-02-2016, 01:52 PM
If not for general fandom purposes, which may be the minority, people come here because they're either a manchild or in desperate need of an escape from real life issues. Or both.

So naturally they're not gonna handle these topics well. It's stupid to try. If you wanna change the world, start with people that aren't vehemently against adulthood.

The Deadman
02-02-2016, 02:09 PM
You basically just said non-whites don't put in any effort. Good to know where you stand! I like when people are up front about how terrible they are, saves us a lot of time.

Nope, there are plenty of white people that want a free ride as well. My point was those 2 examples are who Bernie Sanders caters to.

Papenbrook
02-02-2016, 02:57 PM
Voting goes entirely against a ton of my personal beliefs, especially about personal responsibility. I don't take undue credit NOR undue blame and I believe that is the way it should be. I also don't put my "stamp" on anything or anyone I don't believe in 100%. I don't befriend or spend time with people I don't respect. I don't work for people I don't respect. And I'm absolutely never going to endorse anyone I don't respect. My endorsement of a person, especially of a politician, implicitly suggests that I am supportive of their actions. And I will never put my name behind a professional liar. Period. I will not be responsible for whatever bullsh*t they inevitably do, so I'm not going to endorse them. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to help the power-hungry achieve their goals.

I do get what people are trying to say, I simply completely disagree and always will. You know how most people are like, "Wrestling is fake, what's the point of watching it?" And you can try and tell them that it's about the performance, the athleticism, the drama, etc., but really, they either get it or they don't, and you're never changing their minds. Well, my perspective on this is, "Politics is fake. The game is rigged, so why play it?" I have better sh*t to do. I'm not taking a day off of work to go give a thumbs-up to some rich c*cksucker who doesn't even know or care I exist, who isn't going to put one goddamn cent in my pocket or keep a roof over my family's heads.

From spending all day at the welfare office trying to get homeless assistance to getting drunk with local politicians after shows, I've dealt with "The System" and the people who run it from every conceivable angle since I was a little kid. And "The System" f*cking sucks, and nobody "in charge" gives a goddamn about you or me. I get to see these people with their guard down, and let me tell ya... it's a shame there's people who vote, who call what *I* do "fake". THOSE people are fake. You vote for them, you support that whole mess. Me? I abstain. There's far more than enough people taking their little census in November to keep the wheels spinning. I'm over on the sidelines rooting for the whole thing to collapse.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. See, I genuinely don't want things to keep going the way they've been. It doesn't work. "Society" is all an illusion, anyway, and every civilization inevitably tears itself apart from within. I'm actually really, REALLY looking forward to the end of the world, because actually getting to see it sounds super-interesting, so if society could actually start collapsing on itself sooner rather than later, that'd be great. Because there's this idea people have that we can somehow "fix things", and that's not possible. Humankind is on the downhill slide; why drag it out? Getting rid of the figurehead "leaders" and puppet "governments" would be a great way to light some fireworks.

So yeah, that's why I don't vote. Have fun with that, though. I'm sure you'll get everything you want and the system will completely correct itself once the "right people" finally get put in the right seats. I'd say wishing in one hand and sh*tting in the other has the exact same effect and you don't even have to leave your house, but hey, whatever makes you happy. :)

I predict that the United States will fall apart, and split into smaller countries.

It always happens. Countries separate into smaller civilizations as a result of the country falling apart economically, culturally, etc. It has to happen sooner or later.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 03:00 PM
I predict that the United States will fall apart, and split into smaller countries.

It always happens. Countries separate into smaller civilizations as a result of the country falling apart economically, culturally, etc. It has to happen sooner or later.

Well THAT was depressing.

My state keeps saying we'll do it, but yeah... not for awhile. :tlol:

The Deadman
02-02-2016, 03:03 PM
I don't see the country breaking up into smaller ones but I do forsee states breaking off like Texas threatened to do years ago. Will it actually happen tho? Probably not.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 03:12 PM
I don't see the country breaking up into smaller ones but I do forsee states breaking off like Texas threatened to do years ago. Will it actually happen tho? Probably not.

Trust me, Texans want to be their own country. Then they'll probably go to war with Mexico or something.

I live in a land of lunatics.

Candy Kappa
02-02-2016, 03:17 PM
I absolutely love that the American side of the family thinks my country is a Marxist state, cause you can't shoot people that walks in the forest you own and we pay our taxes.

One of them started to unfriend family members due to not being enough pro-gun, that was amazing. He even ended up deleting his account, only to have it reinstated and re-friend the ones he removed, cause his mom (mu grandma's sister) ordered him to.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 03:23 PM
I absolutely love that the American side of the family thinks my country is a Marxist state, cause you can't shoot people that walks in the forest you own and we pay our taxes.

One of them started to unfriend family members due to not being enough pro-gun, that was amazing. He even ended up deleting his account, only to have it reinstated and re-friend the ones he removed, cause his mom (mu grandma's sister) ordered him to.

Ah, Facebook... never a good idea. :tlol:

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 03:45 PM
If not for general fandom purposes, which may be the minority, people come here because they're either a manchild or in desperate need of an escape from real life issues. Or both.

So naturally they're not gonna handle these topics well. It's stupid to try. If you wanna change the world, start with people that aren't vehemently against adulthood.

This...is so true it should be embroidered onto a pillow.

Etsyturtle2
02-02-2016, 04:19 PM
This thread needs to be locked.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 04:20 PM
This thread needs to be locked.

Go away, small child.

The adults are pondering the infinite mysteries of a screwed-up and self-loathing universe. 'Tis not for underage eyes.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-02-2016, 04:27 PM
If our state ever DID form its own country, it would be bankrupt in a day. There would be no currency, and nothing to base it on if there was.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 04:31 PM
If our state ever DID form its own country, it would be bankrupt in a day. There would be no currency, and nothing to base it on if there was.

We could use Bud Lite tabs as currency.

And we could base it on the number of hound dogs sleeping under every porch and trailer home across our fair nation.

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 04:58 PM
Is it Fallout that uses bottlecaps?

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 06:08 PM
If not for general fandom purposes, which may be the minority, people come here because they're either a manchild or in desperate need of an escape from real life issues. Or both.

So naturally they're not gonna handle these topics well. It's stupid to try. If you wanna change the world, start with people that aren't vehemently against adulthood.

Like I said, you're a smart guy. I know you're right, and yeah, this is my escape. I really should just spend more time at the gym, but y'all are GD fascinating, honestly. Some people love soaps, for me, it's this place, dickheads and all.

Even the manchildren... especially the manchildren.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-02-2016, 07:25 PM
Like I said, you're a smart guy. I know you're right, and yeah, this is my escape. I really should just spend more time at the gym, but y'all are GD fascinating, honestly. Some people love soaps, for me, it's this place, dickheads and all.

Even the manchildren... especially the manchildren.

Apparently you and I have the exact same taste and MO. :tlol:

Addicting, isn't it? All this idiocy and drama...

MsMarvelDuckie
02-02-2016, 10:06 PM
Im just here for the lolz. And the popcorn. And Cubed's psychobabble.

plastroncafe
02-02-2016, 10:21 PM
Won't someone think of the manchildren.
Like, can we dedicate one person to think of them, so that the rest of us can do anything but? I nominate Seth McFarlane.

Leo656
02-02-2016, 10:31 PM
New Jersey already kind of thinks of itself as its own country; we're rather isolationist and generally don't like people from "Over There" coming in and screwing things up, clogging up the beaches and the roads and whatnot. And tons of it is woods. I think if the worst happens and the US gets broken into smaller subdivisions that we, at least, will be just fine. This is a state that once had a failed campaign to make "F*** Those Other Guys" the official state motto.

Commenter 42
02-02-2016, 11:06 PM
Won't someone think of the manchildren.
Like, can we dedicate one person to think of them, so that the rest of us can do anything but? I nominate Seth McFarlane.

What comes next? Every generation has its baggage, and if we got MCs, what's the next logical evolution? Who are the insufferables of gen Z?

Also, sitting through once upon a time in the west induces nausea, diarrhea, bloating, and hepatitis C.

Prowler
02-02-2016, 11:21 PM
Makes sense for there to be cultural and lifestyle differences across a huge country with diverse demographics.

I think what still holds the States together is a huge chunk of its population seeing it as the country that "saved" their ancestors.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 08:29 AM
Watching CNN this morning, and some Reverend is being interviewed, who claims the country is going to Hell, unless we turn to "God". He cites same sex marriage as the reason, and that same sex Marriage is not the will of the people.

I still don't understand why this is an issue. Why isn't it just simply called marriage? The qualifiers need to be forgotten. Marriage is marriage.

To the folks who continue to belabor the point, it's like...

1.Get over it, and too bad.
2.None of your business?
3.Stop imposing your ignorance, arrogance, and bigotry on God. Even if I bought into your delusions and paranoia, your "god" is about love and tolerance, not hate.

I'll never understand the hang ups of sexuality or race. It's only culture that matters, as in, do our cultures clash, and if so, of the two, three, or twenty-five that are clashing, can we not simply assimilate the best parts of each, and forget the worst? Like, take the baklava, leave the berka?

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 08:42 AM
I'd rather keep both the baklava and the burka as an option for those who choose it, and ditch the patriarchal nonsense that legislates its requirement. If we did that, we'd likely get rid of the anti- equal marriage folks too. Everyone wins.

Though I do find it funny that of all the sins in the US, giving gay married people health insurance and survivor benefits are real reasons people believe their god has it out for us.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 09:14 AM
I'd rather keep both the baklava and the burka as an option for those who choose it, and ditch the patriarchal nonsense that legislates its requirement. If we did that, we'd likely get rid of the anti- equal marriage folks too. Everyone wins.

Though I do find it funny that of all the sins in the US, giving gay married people health insurance and survivor benefits are real reasons people believe their god has it out for us.

I will forever disagree with the berka, but like you said, I wouldn't impose my feelings about it on anyone. Maybe if the men wore them too...I might be less skeptical of their role in the culture as anything more than a tool of submission, but again, that's me. As long as it isn't a forced scenario, a-la footbinding...you know...

I think you get my point. Integration isn't all that hard.

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 09:28 AM
I will forever disagree with the berka, but like you said, I wouldn't impose my feelings about it on anyone. Maybe if the men wore them too...I might be less skeptical of their role in the culture as anything more than a tool of submission, but again, that's me. As long as it isn't a forced scenario, a-la footbinding...you know...

I think you get my point. Integration isn't all that hard.

Everyone benefits from a diverse society. But diversity requires compromise, and there's a whole lot of people in the US who aren't willing to compromise.

Especially if that compromise means questioning tradition and the status quo.

Hell...we've got people on these boards who balk at the very idea of someone having a different opinion regarding cartoons.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 09:36 AM
Everyone benefits from a diverse society. But diversity requires compromise, and there's a whole lot of people in the US who aren't willing to compromise.

Especially if that compromise means questioning tradition and the status quo.

Hell...we've got people on these boards who balk at the very idea of someone having a different opinion regarding cartoons.

It's the God delusion. There's nothing more divisive in the US.

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 09:45 AM
See, I don't buy that. God's the excuse, not the problem. There are plenty of faithful people out there who aren't supremacists of one stripe or another.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 09:47 AM
See, I don't buy that. God's the excuse, not the problem. There are plenty of faithful people out there who aren't supremacists of one stripe or another.

Exactly. Besides, plenty of God-fearing people believe 1) governments shouldn't be in the business of marrying anybody, homo or hetero, and 2) it's not the government's place to enforce issues of morality when actions are being taken by consenting adults, regardless of personal beliefs of sin or morality.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 10:39 AM
See, I don't buy that. God's the excuse, not the problem. There are plenty of faithful people out there who aren't supremacists of one stripe or another.

I don't know how else to respond to that, then to say, generalizations are exactly what the name implies, and of course, it's always possible to point and say, look, here's an outlier, therefore, everything is invalid! personally, I have yet to meet one of the faithful that aren't judgmental.

Children believe in fairytales and have invisible friends too, and they're often innocent, but that doesn't mean the things they believe in are good for them, or us, or aren't of a corrupt nature intrinsically, or in fact, exist. If you ask a child, they'll argue Santa is real, and cry loudly when you tell them he isn't. Ultimately, I can't actually prove to a child who's a devoute belivere in Santa, that Santa doesn't exist. They have to accept it on their own.

My argument is simple; I won't begin to argue with anyone the existence of God - (obviously I think there's an equal chance of encountering a Ninja Turtle when I die, or that cotton candy is both sentient and secretly ruling the world) - but I will maintain that God, as you said, is an excuse. It's both the proverbial carrot, and whip, intended to devise an us and them scenario. It's an idea that has only ever served the rich, or console the poor, but always with an agenda of subjugation.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 10:40 AM
I don't know how else to respond to that, then to say, generalisations are exactly what the name implies, and of course, it's always possible to point and say, look, here's an outlier, therefore, everything is invalid!

Children believe in fairytales and have invisible friends too, and they're often innocent, but that doesn't mean the things they believe in are good for them, or us, or aren't of a corrupt nature intrinsically, or in fact, exist. If you ask a child, they'll argue Santa is real, and cry loudly when you tell them he isn't. Ultimately, I can't actually prove to a child who's a devoute belivere in Santa, that Santa doesn't exist. They have to accept it on their own.

My argument is simple; I won't begin to argue with anyone the existence of God - (obviously I think there's an equal chance of encountering a Ninja Turtle when I die, or that cotton candy is both sentient and secretly ruling the world) - but I will maintain that God, as you said, is a divisive construct. It's both the proverbial carrot, and whip, intended to devise an us and them scenario. It's an idea that has only ever served the rich, or console the poor, but always with an agenda of subjugation.

Wow, man. Marxism? :tlol: "Religion is the opiate of the masses?"

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 10:45 AM
Wow, man. Marxism? :tlol: "Religion is the opiate of the masses?"

Is that what you call it? I call it reality...:P

Wait, why can't the government marry people? What's the issue?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 10:53 AM
Is that what you call it? I call it reality...:P

Wait, why can't the government marry people? What's the issue?

Why should a government be involved in marriage? It's a personal decision between two consenting adults.

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 10:58 AM
Because it's a legally binding contract.
Revisionist historians will try to say it was always a rite, but that's not the case.

Cylons, it's possible you have only ever met the judgemental religious folk because you are loud and proud about your disdain for them. I'm willing to bet there are closeted religious people around you every day, but who don't want to engage.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 11:05 AM
Because it's a legally binding contract.
Revisionist historians will try to say it was always a rite, but that's not the case.

Cylons, it's possible you have only ever met the judgemental religious folk because you are loud and proud about your disdain for them. I'm willing to bet there are closeted religious people around you every day, but who don't want to engage.

Um, excuse me? Sure you're talking to the right person? I've never condemned all religious people.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 11:06 AM
Because it's a legally binding contract.
Revisionist historians will try to say it was always a rite, but that's not the case.

Cylons, it's possible you have only ever met the judgemental religious folk because you are loud and proud about your disdain for them. I'm willing to bet there are closeted religious people around you every day, but who don't want to engage.

^^lol... You mean me. And no. you still don't get me, and after all these years :cry:

I was baptised, I'm a recovering Catholic, parents still are.

I'm not condeming anyone - I'm criticizing the willful abandonment of personal agency. God is a weapon and a shield these days, nothing more. Don't tell me god has a problem with gays, tell me you do. (not you specifically Plastron, the collective "you")

@Cylons - What Plastron said. Marriage has very important legal implications, and needs to be legally binding,for a trillion reasons. It's not just a personal decision between two consenting adults, because emotions cloud everything on the way in, and more importantly, on the way out.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 11:11 AM
^^lol... You mean me. And no. you still don't get me, and after all these years :cry:

I was baptised, I'm a recovering Catholic, parents still are.

@Cylons - What Plastron said. Marriage has very important legal implications, and needs to for a trillion reasons. It's not just a personal decision between two consenting adults, because emotions cloud everything on the way in, and more importantly, on the way out.

I'll give you that there are important legal ramifications, but I'm still not sure why that means it needs to be dictated by the federal (or state) government who can and can't get married.

And yeah, Plastron was DEFINITELY talking about you, not me. :tlol:

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 11:18 AM
What's becoming apparent in this conversation, is why this debate rages online with no end in sight. It gets personal quickly. It should be noted that my statements are meant to be provocative, nothing more. I'm trying to have an academic conversation, not a battle of insults...just to be clear.

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 11:23 AM
Ack! Sorry about that!
That was a keying error on my part entirely. I was trying to add to the conversation from mobile, and my screen borked.

But yes, thank you!

Marriage is a legally binding contract that the state has an interest in keeping a record of. Always has, always will.

I'm recovering Catholic too, and I've found a boatload of reasonable people among the faithful once I put down the chip I was carrying on my shoulders. I still don't "Get" faith, but I'm more than happy to live and let live, so long as that is also extended back to me.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 11:30 AM
Ack! Sorry about that!
That was a keying error on my part entirely. I was trying to add to the conversation from mobile, and my screen borked.

But yes, thank you!

Marriage is a legally binding contract that the state has an interest in keeping a record of. Always has, always will.

I'm recovering Catholic too, and I've found a boatload of reasonable people among the faithful once I put down the chip I was carrying on my shoulders. I still don't "Get" faith, but I'm more than happy to live and let live, so long as that is also extended back to me.

NP. :tsmile:

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 11:33 AM
Should really know better than to try and forum post on my android, but it's not every day there's actual DECENT conversation here....and I couldn't resist.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 12:14 PM
I'm recovering Catholic too, and I've found a boatload of reasonable people among the faithful once I put down the chip I was carrying on my shoulders. I still don't "Get" faith, but I'm more than happy to live and let live, so long as that is also extended back to me.

Lol, I had a chip as well; it's part of the process of undoing the damage done. It takes time to unravel the indoctrination.

I don't now, even if that's your interpretation. It's not a chip to feel religion is harmful, just my opinion, based on personal experience. I could point to the historic inconsistencies, wars and any host of studies that refute religious doctrine, but the internet has done that 100 times over, and it doesn't end well.

All I'm insisting, is that invoking god absolves the speaker of condemnation, and if I really wanted to put a fine point on it, "the commandment to not take the lords name in vain" might actually have more to do with claiming homosexuality is against god, or that xyz goes against god, than exclaiming GD.

In my opinion, I don't want a president who puts their trust in a higher power; that idea scares the crap out of me.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 12:19 PM
In my opinion, I don't want a president who puts their trust in a higher power; that idea scares the crap out of me.

Sorry, but that won't be happening for a few election cycles. Everybody at least pays lip service, which is ridiculous.

If you don't believe, say you don't believe. Stand by thy personal convictions... except, whoops, we're discussing politicians, aren't we? :tlol:

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 12:24 PM
I think it'll be a great deal longer than a few election cycles before someone who identifies as an atheist will hold high offices, and that's not taking into consideration the eight states (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/07/08/there-are-states-where-you-technically-cant-hold-public-office-if-youre-an-atheist/) where it's technically illegal for them to hold public office at all.

To my knowledge there's only ever been one non-Protestant/Protestant affiliated President of the United States, and that was Kennedy.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 12:26 PM
Sorry, but that won't be happening for a few election cycles. Everybody at least pays lip service, which is ridiculous.

If you don't believe, say you don't believe. Stand by thy personal convictions... except, whoops, we're discussing politicians, aren't we? :tlol:

I don't think we've had a god fearing President since Bush 41.

Oh Boy, this just in:

Trump has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/2/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-prize/)

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 12:34 PM
I don't think we've had a god fearing President since Bush 41.

Oh Boy, this just in:

Trump has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/2/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-prize/)

I dunno, Bush 43 maybe... don't really know. I mean, he claims to be such, but I'm not really sure I've seen any evidence that he's an atheist.

But I'd bet most of the recent ones have been agnostic or... whatever you call it where you believe God set the universe going like a ticking clock and then walked away.

I dunno. Honestly don't really care a whole bunch. I've got enough problems with recent presidents without having to dig too deeply into their personal religious beliefs (or lack therof).

EDIT: Yeah, Trump is a HELL of a peace-talking man. :trolleye:

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 12:39 PM
So long as any public servant is representing their constituency by putting the greater good front and center, I really don't care what they do in their private time.

As for Trump for the Peace Prize...

Dear Universe: The Onion is not a How-Two Guide.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 12:40 PM
So long as any public servant is representing their constituency by putting the greater good front and center, I really don't care what they do in their private time.

As for Trump for the Peace Prize...

Dear Universe: The Onion is not a How-Two Guide.

Whenever I hear ANY news on Trump, it always sounds like a damned Onion article. :tlol:

plastroncafe
02-03-2016, 12:58 PM
In happier, No We're Totally Not In The Darkest Timeline news:

Zika is now apparently sexually transmitted. (http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/sexual-transmission-zika-reported-us)

Yay!

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 01:02 PM
In happier, No We're Totally Not In The Darkest Timeline news:

Zika is now apparently sexually transmitted. (http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/sexual-transmission-zika-reported-us)

Yay!

Don't worry, Donald Trump will protect us from Zika.

Etsyturtle2
02-03-2016, 02:48 PM
Because he is awesome.

MikeandRaph87
02-03-2016, 03:16 PM
Because he is awesome.

A legend in his own mind.

How did this go from being a legit question about a bygone sub-forum to a platform for political discussion?:P

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-03-2016, 03:18 PM
A legend in his own mind.

How did this go from being a legit question about a bygone sub-forum to a platform for political discussion?:P

The power of the internet, my friend.

Commenter 42
02-03-2016, 03:50 PM
So long as any public servant is representing their constituency by putting the greater good front and center, I really don't care what they do in their private time.


Except that it legitimately matters?

Scenario 1: If I don't talk (insert insane dictator here) down, we may be facing nuclear war. I better find a solution.

Scenario 2: If I don't talk (insert insane dictator here) down, we may be facing nuclear war. If we just pray hard enough, god will save us. If he doesn't, well, that's gods will.

And if you don't like that example, just think of all the gloriously re-written science texts that include such gems as the earth is 6000 years old, people hung out with dinosaurs, and the Earth is flat.
There's also the zionist argument, that we should do our best to bring about the end times in order to bring about the second coming of Christ. This is why we keep hear that we should meet ISIS with boots on the ground.
Many of the republicans are arguing that Muslims shouldn't even be allowed into the united states! That's not an atheist speaking, that's the Christian Right.

Sorry, you can't just shrug off a persons belief system. magic underwear is magic underwear. Sexuality is a none of my business topic; religion, absolutely, is not.

Commenter 42
02-04-2016, 02:42 PM
Looks like I overstepped...ah welll...

Here's a way to pay tribute to the Donald, in the most entertaining way possible. (http://trumpdonald.org/)

plastroncafe
02-04-2016, 02:50 PM
It wasn't an overstep, the thread disappeared from my reader.

I'm not seeing the contradiction between the scenarios you've presented, and my stance on the matter.

I don't care that the pharmacist has deeply held religious views regarding the medication she dispenses, I care that she dispenses it. She has to put her job first. When she doesn't...well then, that's an issue.

If the politician goes home and prays to god for a solution...great! Maybe their god will help! I care that they do their diplomacy. They weren't elected/hired/appointed to pray. They were elected/hired/appointed to do a job.

MsMarvelDuckie
02-04-2016, 03:18 PM
Please explain that one to the county clerk here that refused to DO HER JOB by giving marriage licenses to same-sex couples because it was "against her religion". Using religion as an excuse to avoid doing something has become an all too common crutch.

Ninturtle
02-04-2016, 03:20 PM
Whenever I hear ANY news on Trump, it always sounds like a damned Onion article. :tlol:


The thing I hate about media coverage of Trump (and a lot of people) is that they always cut off what he says and twist his points. He'll say something like " I think we should ban muslims from entering the states until we can figure out what to do with them" and they They'll say "Donald Trump hates muslims and wants to kick them out of the country". You don't need to twist Donald Trumps words to prove him wrong,there's more logical ways to refute him. By the way I don't support Trump , I just don't support a lot of people straw manning his arguments instead of properly refuting them (this is an issue on both sides of the political spectrum but I especially see it towards Trump).

plastroncafe
02-04-2016, 03:33 PM
Please explain that one to the county clerk here that refused to DO HER JOB by giving marriage licenses to same-sex couples because it was "against her religion". Using religion as an excuse to avoid doing something has become an all too common crutch.

Trust me, I would love to. There's a whole lot of red-tape surrounding that woman that I think is in desperate need of pruning.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-04-2016, 03:37 PM
Please explain that one to the county clerk here that refused to DO HER JOB by giving marriage licenses to same-sex couples because it was "against her religion". Using religion as an excuse to avoid doing something has become an all too common crutch.

The ethical and moral thing for her to have done is resign, even from a Christian perspective.

But no, she didn't want to lose her job for her faith, or maybe she just wanted the publicity. Either way...

Commenter 42
02-04-2016, 03:43 PM
Please explain that one to the county clerk here that refused to DO HER JOB by giving marriage licenses to same-sex couples because it was "against her religion". Using religion as an excuse to avoid doing something has become an all too common crutch.

This is where I was going. Thank you.

Also, @Plastron - You're being a tad obstinate, but you know that. Hearing voices is not a sign of a higher power, it's mental illness. Asking God for advice is no different than asking a bar of soap, or a chewed piece of bubble gum. If you get a response, it originated in your own head.
But that wasn't what I meant - I meant, that many folks throw their hands up, and claim "it's gods will". You know all the arguments as well as I, I'm sure, so trotting out the sam old rhetoric isn't worth it. Somtimes you're utilising a blanket defensiveness that at times contradicts itself, as many SJW clerics do (did I at last get it right this time? :P ).

Cherry picking here and there doesn't really work. Zealots are a problem, no matter how you slice it.

"What ever helps them sleep better at night" they say...
NO! That's the problem. Folks need to wake up.