PDA

View Full Version : Do you feel the 2k3 series is under-appreciated?


thundermaster612
02-25-2016, 03:16 PM
I mean, its the series that brought TMNT back after the crash from 'The Next Sh*tation' it set the shape of the future of TMNT and its now just thrown off to the side while the other series have all the attention. In the other thread 'When do you think you'll start feeling nostalgia for the 2003 series' most people on their just shove off the series, it brought a new angle to the TMNT-verse and it always had a balance of new and old characters unlike the 2k12 series where it almost always uses old characters (no hate for the 2k12 series, I still love it). I'd just like to see if people think so or not, and there can be discussion about it.

Redeemer
02-25-2016, 03:58 PM
Peter Laird and the 2k3 series as a whole is literally the savior for TMNT

After Kevin Eastman made next mutation and then crashed and burned straight up ran from the franchise by selling his half to Peter Laird.

TMNT was literally dead for a solid 5 years. Dead as a door nail. Pete Laird saved the franchise with 2k3. The 2k3 also proved TMNT was not just a fad, but an actual profitable property with a strong following with staying power.

The 2k3 series also led to the 07 film and was set to make a follower up sequel/reboot before the NICK buy-out.

The 2k3 series also led to the Nick Buy-out as said before it prove to everyone the profitability and staying power of TMNT

So yeah the 2k3 series is under-rated. It is probably by far the most under-rated part of TMNT.

FrMikey
02-25-2016, 05:26 PM
I'm french and in France the 2K3 series is almost unknown.

People know the 87 series very much, they know there is currently the Nick series but the only ones who know the existence of the 2K3 series are the TMNT fans and those who have known this series when they were kids (and they don't know the 87 series...).
Moreover in France few people do not know that the Ninja Turtles are first comic book characters

Prowler
02-25-2016, 06:25 PM
I'm french and in France the 2K3 series is almost unknown.

People know the 87 series very much, they know there is currently the Nick series but the only ones who know the existence of the 2K3 series are the TMNT fans and those who have known this series when they were kids (and they don't know the 87 series...).
Moreover in France few people do not know that the Ninja Turtles are first comic book characters
Same here. Some people don't even know about the Nick toon here and thought the Turtles were back for the first time in years when the Bay movie was announced. The 2007 CG film also went by somewhat unnoticed.

But it seems to be a universal thing. I've talked to people of many countries and many had no idea about the 4Kids series.

Zak The Neutrino
02-25-2016, 06:51 PM
I'm still working in watching the whole 2k3 series for the first time.

Turtle Park
02-25-2016, 07:20 PM
Same in Taiwan, most people here known about 87 series, so when 07 movie release a lot of people start asking like why the April is not a reporter that kind of question.

So yes, those known about 2K3 are either fans or the kids in 2000 era.

Irony is, that I didn't know it until 2010, which is the year I start become TMNT fan, by the time it happened, I'm already in high school.

Now 2k12 also made it's way air in Taiwan, I'm kind of worry the younger generation will think that is what TMNT should be, without knowing there's much more different world like the original comic exist.

DevilSpooky
02-25-2016, 09:39 PM
Same here. Some people don't even know about the Nick toon here and thought the Turtles were back for the first time in years when the Bay movie was announced. The 2007 CG film also went by somewhat unnoticed.

But it seems to be a universal thing. I've talked to people of many countries and many had no idea about the 4Kids series.

I don't really agree with you on some of that, when the Nick show started you coold see it everywhere, the toys had huge displays in toy stores, in fact Toys'r'us had an entire section just for them in their stores, you could also see publicity everywhere, like a huge outdoor display in Campo Grande and even Donnie plastered all over the side of the subway trains. It did die out a little recently but you can still see toys on every toy isle around here, usually peg warmers though but I think it's like that all over Europe, heck I even saw some of the Mega Bloks sets last week on Jumbo, they where all gone 2 days later so people are still aware of them.

Also the 2007 movie got great publicity back then, especially when you had someone like Nuno Markl involved on its dub, in fact it's the only movie you can still buy in stores here other then the Bay one.

But yeah, the 4kids show kinda went oover everyone, it still aired completely dubbed and I do remember seing some toys and DVDs back in the day, but people didn't made a huge deal out of it, my girl used to love them when she was a kid though, she still sings the opening from time to time. :tgrin:

shuriken
02-26-2016, 02:53 AM
I think it was appreciated enough. But honestly the poll should have 3 options.
Saying it has gotten enough credit and "meh I don't care for it" in the same option is a bit of a cop out. I really like this series, but it got credit where credit was due.
IMO the thing that "saved the franchise" was the start of Mirage Volume 4. Without that, no 2K3, no 2k7 nothing of that sort, hell Peter might've sold it to someone else that wouldn't have treated the TMNT as well as Nick has been doing.
I really liked 2k3, and it holds up pretty well today. Its not for everyone but I love it for what it is. Probably my favorite show in my teen years, as it was one of the 5-10 things I watched completely from start to finish. Even when I had to work I recorded whole seasons of it on my vcr (I'm old school so sue me).
Back in 8th grade and high school it's a show people would still watch and talk about. And not just nerds (even though by man accounts I totally was/ still kinda am)

ABrown
02-26-2016, 10:04 AM
Of the three TMNT cartoons, the 4Kids series is the one that's least recognized. It's only us TMNT fanatics that seem to give it the attention that it deserves. Which is unfortunate, as I consider it to be the best TMNT cartoon.

Editor's Note Comics
02-26-2016, 11:17 AM
To me it doesn't feel under appreciated. The older fans that watched it still appreciate it; and the younger ones that grew up on it haven't reached the age yet to remember the show nostalgically since its only been off air seven years. Aside from poor/lack of DVD releases, is it under appreciated in any other way?

Redeemer
02-26-2016, 12:17 PM
IMO the thing that "saved the franchise" was the start of Mirage Volume 4. Without that, no 2K3, no 2k7 nothing of that sort, hell Peter might've sold it to someone else that wouldn't have treated the TMNT as well as Nick has been doing.



Do you have source, bc that does not even make sense considering the sales for Mirage volume 4 were so low the later issues were direct order from Mirage website or digital only.

Volume 4 is essentially a failed line of comics. If any other comic had its sales number it would have been cancelled. Volume 4 had nothing to do with the creation of 2k3

You do not make a cartoon based on comic sales like that.
If you look at TMNTpedia Mirage were make pitches also to WB and from the description is sounds like they were trying to replicate the success of the OT/87 series.

If Vol 4 was really that popular WB would have picked up the pitch.

Honestly with how bad and unpopular volume 4 is with the fans I think volume 4 is more of a hindrance if anything.
I think Peter Laird definitely deserves the credits for getting TMNT back into the mainstream via 2K3 series.

Peter Laird and the creation of the 2K3 series led to everything including the 2k7 movie. There is no way a failing comic line led to a movie.

Turo602
02-26-2016, 01:54 PM
I think it's very under-appreciated. It had a lot of things working against it. First off, it was on an unpopular network. A lot of people weren't even aware of its existence when the show was out and even today. It was drastically different from the original 80s cartoon which could be considered a negative depending on who you ask. It's quite obvious why the 80s cartoon was such a big hit and why it's still remembered very fondly today but even the Nick show got such a huge welcoming with everyone upon its release. Right off the bat, being on such a well known network such as Nickelodeon was a huge help. It also borrows quite a lot from the original cartoon that a lot of people grew up with who most likely have kids of their own by now who they can share the show with. TMNT 2k3 was such an amazing show so it really is a shame that it kind of went unnoticed. It certainly left a mark, just not as big a mark as I feel it deserves.

thundermaster612
02-26-2016, 02:16 PM
I think it was appreciated enough. But honestly the poll should have 3 options.
Saying it has gotten enough credit and "meh I don't care for it" in the same option is a bit of a cop out. I really like this series, but it got credit where credit was due.
IMO the thing that "saved the franchise" was the start of Mirage Volume 4. Without that, no 2K3, no 2k7 nothing of that sort, hell Peter might've sold it to someone else that wouldn't have treated the TMNT as well as Nick has been doing.
I really liked 2k3, and it holds up pretty well today. Its not for everyone but I love it for what it is. Probably my favorite show in my teen years, as it was one of the 5-10 things I watched completely from start to finish. Even when I had to work I recorded whole seasons of it on my vcr (I'm old school so sue me).
Back in 8th grade and high school it's a show people would still watch and talk about. And not just nerds (even though by man accounts I totally was/ still kinda am)

well its too late to make those changes so deal with it

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-26-2016, 05:12 PM
I'm french and in France the 2K3 series is almost unknown.

People know the 87 series very much, they know there is currently the Nick series but the only ones who know the existence of the 2K3 series are the TMNT fans and those who have known this series when they were kids (and they don't know the 87 series...).
Moreover in France few people do not know that the Ninja Turtles are first comic book characters

The 2003 series at least aired in France (and in French in Québec, Canada) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Tortues_Ninja_(s%C3%A9rie_t%C3%A9l%C3%A9vis%C3 %A9e_d%27animation,_2003)

FrMikey
02-26-2016, 06:00 PM
Yep, but only those who have seen this series during four years when it was on TV know about it. (Only the first four seasons were released in France)

TheSkeletonMan939
02-26-2016, 07:42 PM
The 2K3 series seems to be the overlooked middle child between the OT and the Nick series. I think that's a shame because it had an incredible run, and not as many people in the future may want to look into it. Oh well.

CyberCubed
02-26-2016, 10:03 PM
Its not overlooked at all, so I'm not sure what you mean. It obviously didn't have as high ratings as the other two shows but that's because it aired on an obscure cartoon block that didn't even air in all of the U.S.

Its also critically acclaimed by the fandom at least until the last two seasons, so it made its mark. Likewise it got an extensive toyline and videogames (we got 5 videogames on consoles and handhelds out of this series), and many of its characters like Hun and Bishop went on to other TMNT universes.

Prowler
02-27-2016, 07:21 AM
Its not overlooked at all, so I'm not sure what you mean. It obviously didn't have as high ratings as the other two shows but that's because it aired on an obscure cartoon block that didn't even air in all of the U.S.

Its also critically acclaimed by the fandom at least until the last two seasons, so it made its mark. Likewise it got an extensive toyline and videogames (we got 5 videogames on consoles and handhelds out of this series), and many of its characters like Hun and Bishop went on to other TMNT universes.
I think it's one of those tv shows that was fairly popular when it aired, but not popular enough in order to be eternally remembered by the general audience.

TheSkeletonMan939
02-27-2016, 08:41 AM
I think it's one of those tv shows that was fairly popular when it aired, but not popular enough in order to be eternally remembered by the general audience.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I think in the grand scheme of things the 2K3 series will be overshadowed by the OT and the Nick series.

Prowler
02-27-2016, 10:45 AM
Yeah, that's what I mean. I think in the grand scheme of things the 2K3 series will be overshadowed by the OT and the Nick series.
Which were the biggest cartoon series at the time TMNT 2003 was on? Gotta keep in mind that it lasted for 7 seasons, which is a lot for cartoons nowadays.

But when the general audience thinks of children's cartoons from the past decade, which series spring to mind?

thundermaster612
02-27-2016, 11:33 AM
Yep, but only those who have seen this series during four years when it was on TV know about it. (Only the first four seasons were released in France)

I think the reason for that was because some contract had ended or something had happened with the channel that aired it, either way they still could've aired the rest but they must've been too lazy like the guys who created the DVDs

CyberCubed
02-27-2016, 12:36 PM
Which were the biggest cartoon series at the time TMNT 2003 was on? Gotta keep in mind that it lasted for 7 seasons, which is a lot for cartoons nowadays.

But when the general audience thinks of children's cartoons from the past decade, which series spring to mind?

During the early 2000's we had Justice League/Unlimited, Teen Titans, X-men Evolution, Avatar the last Airbender, Dragonball Z in the U.S., Pokemon was still very popular at the time, etc.

I think you're also forgetting the anime craze was huge in the U.S. at the time, especially with Pokemon, DBZ, and Yu-gi-oh. Most American cartoons were overshadowed by anime's popularity at the time.

Sumac
02-27-2016, 12:48 PM
What happened with TMNT'03 is always baffling to me.

It's like, when it was airing, people were excited for it, but some were not even aware that it was existing. And as soon as it was over, a lot of people have forgotten that this show even existed in the first place. The same thing had happened with TMNT'07, but not to that capacity.

It's like some people went into black out, regarding TMNT stuff, between 1998 and 2012. Which is quite disappointing to me, since I consider TMNT'03 to be the best TMNT series and basically a possible template for what TMNT series and stories should be (of course, it goes for the first 4 seasons only).

As for the reasons...I dunno, maybe it was hard to accept for some people, after original series...or maybe it was not marketed enough.
I guess, in the end, it was just too different from people expectations of what TMNT series should be, which in a pop-culture, have been formed by the original cartoon, and hence why TMNT'12 is such a massive success / better known.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-27-2016, 03:09 PM
I think once the interest for a USA cartoon in a non-English speaking country declines the series stops soon airing in that country since no company is interested in spending money in dubbing more episodes. Sometimes, subtitles can save a series from cancellation.

In Sweden, the 1987 TMNT cartoon aired for five seasons with season 1-3 + Vacation in Europe dubbed, seasons 4-5 with subtitles (which was probably to get more new episodes faster). 2003 cartoon. The 2003 TMNT cartoon aired for 3 or 4 seasons. The new still airs. All series are still remembered, 2003 is remembered as a "failed 2003 attempt to restart TMNT".

A very few Mirage comics have been published in many countries so it isn't easy to know it's more like the original.

During the 1990's we had 1970's nostalgia and during the early 2000's we had 1980's nostalgia. Now it's the 2010's and we have 1990's nostalgia. Beyond 2020, early 2000's nostalgia will kick in so if TMNT is still around then there's a chance the series will get more publicity (and maybe a new TMNT cartoon more 2003-based).

DevilSpooky
02-27-2016, 08:00 PM
Think about this, during the 80's and 90's the Turtles where huge, and kids only thought about them, but then the kids grew up, they reached that age where anything cartoon was for little kids and no one cared about them, that was during the 2000's, then 2010's came, they grew up, they got kids of their own and the stigma of "cartoons are for kids" died out, so a TMNT show on TV during this time was perfect, the parents that grew up during the original boom wanted to remember those days, to share them with a new generation.

I'm sure we'll see the same patern emerge for this generation, they'll grow up, they won't care for cartoons anymore so a new TMNT show will be ignored, but then they'll grow up, they'll have kids, they'll share their childhood with them and a new TMNT show will be popular again.

shuriken
02-28-2016, 12:10 AM
well its too late to make those changes so deal with it
I did. I didn't vote on the poll:)


Do you have source, bc that does not even make sense considering the sales for Mirage volume 4 were so low the later issues were direct order from Mirage website or digital only.

Volume 4 is essentially a failed line of comics. If any other comic had its sales number it would have been cancelled.

I meant among the online community/ word of mouth and general buzz about TMNT. The franchise as a whole was dead by 1998. No comics, series, games or books came out from 1998-2000. (Volume 3 ended, and Next mutation was not renewed for a second season)
Volume four comes out and there is interest and a buzz, not huge but it's there. I agree it wasn't the most successful volume (much less comic series), and it loses it's way at around issue 12 but whatever. My point is it reinvigorated the franchise that 2k3 carried over until it's cancelation. Now it's not as popular as 87 or 2k12, but that doesn't mean its unappreciated.
Besides, its my opinion, and opinions don't always make sense.

CyberCubed
02-28-2016, 12:14 AM
I was one of those original kids from the 80's who loved the original cartoon, movies, etc....and became a teenager when the 2k3 series was airing.

I was 16, or just turned 17, back in 2003 when the show started. As a teenager the show was everything I wanted, and I felt like the Turtles finally had a serious action show on par with Batman: TAS, etc.

A lot of you are forgetting the original fanbase like myself were teenagers when the 2k3 series was airing, so for those of us still interested in the franchise we watched it seriously. Some other teenagers were probably in the, "I need to outgrow cartoons" phase and for that reason didn't watch it.

Damn, I was only 15 when Volume 4 started in 2001. Jesus Christ I am getting old.

TheSkeletonMan939
02-28-2016, 09:41 AM
As a teenager the show was everything I wanted, and I felt like the Turtles finally had a serious action show on par with Batman: TAS, etc.

Definitely. I haven't seen much of the Nick show - maybe ten episodes at most - but the 2K3 series definitely seems like the more powerful and impressive of the two in terms of story and development. Even when FF and BttS are taken into account. Overall it certainly is as well-writen as B:TAS is.

Prowler
02-28-2016, 10:36 AM
I think that nowadays, cartoons simply aren't as important for kids as they were back in the 80s-90s. I mean, obviously kids still watch them, but back then kids had to wake up early on weekends to be able to watch their favourite cartoons. Nowadays there's TV networks airing cartoon series 24/7. And there's so many animated series nowadays and each doesn't last that long aside from some exceptions, so it's hard for a cartoon series to hit big and hog all the spotlight for a few years like the 87 toon did back in the day.

I was one of those original kids from the 80's who loved the original cartoon, movies, etc....and became a teenager when the 2k3 series was airing.

I was 16, or just turned 17, back in 2003 when the show started. As a teenager the show was everything I wanted, and I felt like the Turtles finally had a serious action show on par with Batman: TAS, etc.

A lot of you are forgetting the original fanbase like myself were teenagers when the 2k3 series was airing, so for those of us still interested in the franchise we watched it seriously. Some other teenagers were probably in the, "I need to outgrow cartoons" phase and for that reason didn't watch it.

Damn, I was only 15 when Volume 4 started in 2001. Jesus Christ I am getting old.
Yeah, I definitely felt like the franchsie had grown with me. By the time the 4Kids series came out I was getting in my teens and starting to find the 87 toon not so cool and edgy anymore, so it was a breath of fresh air. And like I've said a few times before, desptie being born in 1990 I was able to get into the 87 toon in the late 90s/early 2000s due to it rerunning often on a cable network in my country. I got heavily into it in 2002-2003. So by the time the 4Kids series came out, I was still watching the FW series lol. Another user, Wesley from Ireland, said the same ting happened in his country.

Wesley
02-28-2016, 12:03 PM
Yeah, I definitely felt like the franchsie had grown with me. By the time the 4Kids series came out I was getting in my teens and starting to find the 87 toon not so cool and edgy anymore, so it was a breath of fresh air. And like I've said a few times before, desptie being born in 1990 I was able to get into the 87 toon in the late 90s/early 2000s due to it rerunning often on a cable network in my country. I got heavily into it in 2002-2003. So by the time the 4Kids series came out, I was still watching the FW series lol. Another user, Wesley from Ireland, said the same ting happened in his country.

Yep, the 87 cartoon was rerun a lot in Ireland on rte two from the mid 90s to late 00s, so I was able to watch both the OT and 2003 series at the same time. I'd say the 2003 cartoon is underrated. I think 2003 was never as popular in Ireland as the original show was, though, as it was only shown once a week, whereas 87 was shown more often. It didn't help that sometimes the two shows got mixed up when they aired.

TurtleGuy
02-28-2016, 12:47 PM
I think that nowadays, cartoons simply aren't as important for kids as they were back in the 80s-90s. I mean, obviously kids still watch them, but back then kids had to wake up early on weekends to be able to watch their favourite cartoons. Nowadays there's TV networks airing cartoon series 24/7. And there's so many animated series nowadays and each doesn't last that long aside from some exceptions, so it's hard for a cartoon series to hit big and hog all the spotlight for a few years like the 87 toon did back in the day.


Just wanted to correct a few things in this post. Back in the 80s/90s kids didn't have to wait until the weekend. There was weekday first-run and rerun syndication(which is where the 87 toon started), and there were weekday afternoon blocks from Kids WB and Fox Kids.

Also, there's only ONE true tv network that airs cartoons 24/7 and that's Boomerang. Nicktoons and Disney XD air live action shows, and CN and Nick share their channels with Adult Swim and Nick at Nite.

Sorry, it's just a little pet peeve of mine when people claim there are so many channels that air cartoons 24/7 when there's only 1(at least here in the States).

And then there's the fact that the channels that do air cartoons all day are content with just airing one show all day(I'm looking at you Teen Titans Go and Spongebob).

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-28-2016, 04:22 PM
Some other teenagers were probably in the, "I need to outgrow cartoons" phase and for that reason didn't watch it.



I watched some (action) cartoons in secreet around the age of 12 and I hated it (not the cartoons, but having to hide something that had so obvious to do just one year ago or so)! I felt like someone watched me from outside, and every 5th minute or so I felt I needed to check out noone was watching me through the windows. Sometimes I did channel-switching short in case someone watched. Same with comics (and some other books), used to hide them deep within wardrobes from friends if they were new (if they were dated some years earlier was OK because that was when we were younger).

Shark_Blade
02-28-2016, 06:30 PM
It's hard to appreciate it as much tbh...

Casey was a useless moron (everytime he's on screen is a waste of time). Shredder was a lame ass alien brain, ew. Their sewer was too stylized and sci-fi farfetched. Too much magic, too much planetary space-travelling, Raph sounded like a 50 years old chainsmoker instead of a teenager... and so much more.

I absolutely adore their Usagi Yojimbo though. they nailed it perfectly. :tlove:

Redeemer
02-28-2016, 06:33 PM
It's hard to appreciate it as much tbh...

Casey was a useless moron (everytime he's on screen is a waste of time). Shredder was a lame ass alien brain, ew. Their sewer was too stylized and sci-fi farfetched. Too much magic, too much planetary space-travelling, Raph sounded like a 50 years old chainsmoker instead of a teenager... and so much more.

I absolutely adore their Usagi Yojimbo though. they nailed it perfectly. :tlove:

Haters gonna Hate :lol:

Prowler
02-28-2016, 09:25 PM
Just wanted to correct a few things in this post. Back in the 80s/90s kids didn't have to wait until the weekend. There was weekday first-run and rerun syndication(which is where the 87 toon started), and there were weekday afternoon blocks from Kids WB and Fox Kids.

Also, there's only ONE true tv network that airs cartoons 24/7 and that's Boomerang. Nicktoons and Disney XD air live action shows, and CN and Nick share their channels with Adult Swim and Nick at Nite.

Sorry, it's just a little pet peeve of mine when people claim there are so many channels that air cartoons 24/7 when there's only 1(at least here in the States).

And then there's the fact that the channels that do air cartoons all day are content with just airing one show all day(I'm looking at you Teen Titans Go and Spongebob).
Really? I can think of at least 3 here. Cartoon Network being one of them. Then there's Disney Channel and Nickelodeon which air not only cartoons but also live action shows.


It's hard to appreciate it as much tbh...

Casey was a useless moron (everytime he's on screen is a waste of time). Shredder was a lame ass alien brain, ew. Their sewer was too stylized and sci-fi farfetched. Too much magic, too much planetary space-travelling, Raph sounded like a 50 years old chainsmoker instead of a teenager... and so much more.

I absolutely adore their Usagi Yojimbo though. they nailed it perfectly. :tlove:
Casey wasn't that bad in the first season, but he got worse as the series progressed, yes. Hell, so did Michelangelo and Raphael. The former got more annoying and arrogant as time went by while the latter got more hotheaded and impulsive. It's like their characters regressed as time went on.

Shredder being a Utrom is something some fans just cannot accept. I understand. It was hard for me to accept at first, but I eventually got over it.

The Lair being all sci-fi? True, but why did you let that detriment your enjoyment of the show? Same for Raph's voice. Planetary space-travelling? That kind of stuff has always been common in TMNT.

TurtleGuy
02-28-2016, 11:19 PM
Really? I can think of at least 3 here. Cartoon Network being one of them. Then there's Disney Channel and Nickelodeon which air not only cartoons but also live action shows.


It's a different story here in the United States. Disney Channel for instance hardly airs cartoons anymore outside of Disney Junior. It's mostly tween sitcoms with (ugh)laugh tracks.

Then you have stuff like Adult Swim and Nick@Nite. Nick@Nite is okay if a little "George Lopez" heavy, but Adult Swim sucks outside of Venture Bros., Rick & Morty, Bob's Burgers, King of the Hill, Toonami, and Mike Tyson Mysteries.

Utrommaniac
02-28-2016, 11:39 PM
I thought Bob's Burgers was a Fox show?

TurtleGuy
02-28-2016, 11:56 PM
I thought Bob's Burgers was a Fox show?
It is but it's also rerun on Adult Swim.

CyberCubed
02-29-2016, 01:48 AM
This is probably the only forum I've been on where people consider a show that went on for 156 episodes, 7 seasons and a DTV movie and say it was "overlooked."

The way people talk you would think the 2k3 series got canceled in like two seasons or something or only made 26-52 episodes like how other cartoons get canceled early. The show literally made over 150 episodes. Only 40ish eps less than the original cartoon did. That's a damn big achievement.

shuriken
02-29-2016, 02:07 AM
^^I'd have to agree with you there. And I'd say 2/3 of those episodes were good/ enjoyable enough for me to re-watch. Can't say the same for the 87 series.

Turo602
02-29-2016, 04:49 AM
This is probably the only forum I've been on where people consider a show that went on for 156 episodes, 7 seasons and a DTV movie and say it was "overlooked."

The way people talk you would think the 2k3 series got canceled in like two seasons or something or only made 26-52 episodes like how other cartoons get canceled early. The show literally made over 150 episodes. Only 40ish eps less than the original cartoon did. That's a damn big achievement.

Just because it had an amazing run doesn't mean it can't be overlooked. It still didn't have as big of an impact as the 87 series or even the current 2012 series. You can't honestly argue that TMNT in 2003 was as big or bigger than it was in the 80s, 90s, and even now. More people know who Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady are and what the Technodrome is than they do Hun or Bishop regardless if they ended up in the comics. It may have done well enough to get by for seven seasons but it was never this huge hit of a cartoon series. The show was even going down in ratings during season 4 which is why they skipped season 5 and went straight into Fast Forward. By then, they were just trying to salvage the series. Even when the show was still on air and new merchandising was announced, it was covered in OT Turtles.

Prowler
02-29-2016, 09:36 AM
This is probably the only forum I've been on where people consider a show that went on for 156 episodes, 7 seasons and a DTV movie and say it was "overlooked."

The way people talk you would think the 2k3 series got canceled in like two seasons or something or only made 26-52 episodes like how other cartoons get canceled early. The show literally made over 150 episodes. Only 40ish eps less than the original cartoon did. That's a damn big achievement.
Maybe "overlooked" isn't the right word. But it is odd how so many people still haven't heard of this show considering it lasted for so long. And I don't mean just people who were already adults by the time it came out and didn't care about cartoons any more, but people are only 19-20 today and claim to have never heard of this show.

^^I'd have to agree with you there. And I'd say 2/3 of those episodes were good/ enjoyable enough for me to re-watch. Can't say the same for the 87 series.

A shame the latter seasons were no on par with the first 4 ones.

ABrown
02-29-2016, 10:22 AM
This is probably the only forum I've been on where people consider a show that went on for 156 episodes, 7 seasons and a DTV movie and say it was "overlooked."

The way people talk you would think the 2k3 series got canceled in like two seasons or something or only made 26-52 episodes like how other cartoons get canceled early. The show literally made over 150 episodes. Only 40ish eps less than the original cartoon did. That's a damn big achievement.

"Overlooked" isn't the right word. It's more like "forgotten". Which is unfortunate, because it's probably my favorite action cartoon ever created.

CyberCubed
02-29-2016, 01:21 PM
^^I'd have to agree with you there. And I'd say 2/3 of those episodes were good/ enjoyable enough for me to re-watch. Can't say the same for the 87 series.

Most of the 2k3 series is good, and some FF and BTTS eps are great too. As for the OT, I like at least 75% of its total episodes to this day.

Prowler
02-29-2016, 01:24 PM
Season 2 has a few duds, despite being a good season overall. Season 3 is good too, but I guess the first seven or so episodes being spent in the Triceraton Earth invasion wasn't to everyone's liking.

CyberCubed
02-29-2016, 01:32 PM
Season 2 has a few duds, despite being a good season overall. Season 3 is good too, but I guess the first seven or so episodes being spent in the Triceraton Earth invasion wasn't to everyone's liking.

Uh, the Triceraton invasion in Season 3 was critically acclaimed.

ABrown
02-29-2016, 01:39 PM
Season 2 has a few duds, despite being a good season overall. Season 3 is good too, but I guess the first seven or so episodes being spent in the Triceraton Earth invasion wasn't to everyone's liking.

Hmm, maybe I'm in the minority then. I absolutely loved the six Triceraton invasion episodes from the third season.

CyberCubed
02-29-2016, 03:04 PM
No, it was loved. I was here when it aired. That arc also introduced Bishop.

Prowler
02-29-2016, 03:04 PM
Uh, the Triceraton invasion in Season 3 was critically acclaimed.
I've seen people complain about it lasting for 6 episodes. Not about the arc itself. Just lasting for about 1/4 of the season.

CyberCubed
02-29-2016, 03:15 PM
I've seen people complain about it lasting for 6 episodes. Not about the arc itself. Just lasting for about 1/4 of the season.

They were two separate 3 parters back to back.

TheSkeletonMan939
02-29-2016, 03:40 PM
Season three was great. My only qualm was their missed opportunity to tie in SAINW with the Exodus two-parter.

Zak The Neutrino
02-29-2016, 04:18 PM
What channel did this air on? I remember seeing it sometimes when I was flipping through channels but my oldest who would have been a prime age while this was going on wasn't interested at all. He was into Spiderman and Power Rangers during this time.

Redeemer
02-29-2016, 04:29 PM
Season three was great. My only qualm was their missed opportunity to tie in SAINW with the Exodus two-parter.

That would have been amazing!!!! :D

TheSkeletonMan939
02-29-2016, 06:41 PM
That would have been amazing!!!! :D

I've always thought what they should have done was, in SAINW, have Donnie learn somehow that the reason Shredder gained so much power was that he was able to leave Earth in his spaceship and return with lots of firepower. That would give the turtles more reason to go to stop Shredder in Exodus. I mean, I know Splinter had that vision, but still...

CyberCubed
02-29-2016, 07:23 PM
What channel did this air on? I remember seeing it sometimes when I was flipping through channels but my oldest who would have been a prime age while this was going on wasn't interested at all. He was into Spiderman and Power Rangers during this time.

It aired on Fox, hence the "FoxBox."

ToTheNines
02-29-2016, 07:49 PM
Uh, the Triceraton invasion in Season 3 was critically acclaimed.

Do you even know what "critically acclaimed" means?

shuriken
03-01-2016, 12:56 AM
Uh, the Triceraton invasion in Season 3 was critically acclaimed.

by who? You?
I liked this series but I wasn't aware any of the episodes were ever "critically acclaimed"

ABrown
03-01-2016, 09:08 AM
What channel did this air on? I remember seeing it sometimes when I was flipping through channels but my oldest who would have been a prime age while this was going on wasn't interested at all. He was into Spiderman and Power Rangers during this time.

It aired on Fox, hence the "FoxBox."

I didn't necessarily air on Fox in all markets though. For example, I'm in the Chicagoland market. So for me, I saw it when it aired on our UPN affiliate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kids_TV#Markets_where_4Kids_TV_ran_on_a_MyNetwork TV_affiliate

Klunk1234
03-01-2016, 08:48 PM
I was one of those original kids from the 80's who loved the original cartoon, movies, etc....and became a teenager when the 2k3 series was airing.

I was 16, or just turned 17, back in 2003 when the show started. As a teenager the show was everything I wanted, and I felt like the Turtles finally had a serious action show on par with Batman: TAS, etc.

A lot of you are forgetting the original fanbase like myself were teenagers when the 2k3 series was airing, so for those of us still interested in the franchise we watched it seriously. Some other teenagers were probably in the, "I need to outgrow cartoons" phase and for that reason didn't watch it.

Damn, I was only 15 when Volume 4 started in 2001. Jesus Christ I am getting old.

Cyber, you are not an 80's kid but a 90's one. 80's kids were teens during the 90's and in their 20's when the 2k3 aired.

For me, the 2k3 series is the most under appreciated nowadays. All you see is the 80's original series re-released in actions figures, clothing, complete DVD series. Things that I don't see for the 2k3. Nickelodeon has simply disowned that show. I know it lasted 7 seasons, but they are not making a comeback like the '87 original series is in merchandising.

Xav
03-01-2016, 10:34 PM
Cyber, you are not an 80's kid but a 90's one. 80's kids were teens during the 90's and in their 20's when the 2k3 aired.Most people born in the 80's would've been in their teens when the 4Kids show started.

shuriken
03-01-2016, 10:42 PM
I didn't necessarily air on Fox in all markets though. For example, I'm in the Chicagoland market. So for me, I saw it when it aired on our UPN affiliate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kids_TV#Markets_where_4Kids_TV_ran_on_a_MyNetwork TV_affiliate

Same here. It started on Fox, but after the first season or so moved to UPN.

ABrown
03-03-2016, 02:08 PM
Same here. It started on Fox, but after the first season or so moved to UPN.

Are you sure? I don't remember watching any episodes on Fox. I swear I saw all of them from the start on UPN.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
03-03-2016, 02:27 PM
Yes, it is forgotten, under-appreciated, and overlooked. I honestly do not see how anyone could say differently on that.

The 80's cartoon got a complete series DVD set. It is still talked about to this day and it still influences things in this day & age in a huge way (aka the Nick show and Michael Bay films...mainly this new, upcoming one).

The Nick show (understandable since it is currently on) is talked about as if it is the best thing since sliced bread. It also helps that it has more money for promotion (since Nick has more bucks than 4Kids did) let alone the advent of Youtube/etc., which gets people to talk about it in video after video after video (how many internet stars or Youtubers talk about the 2003 cartoon...at least ones that have a giant fanbase ala Black Nerd?). And you even have websites like IGN and such rating every single episode of the new Nick show and calling it 'the best TMNT toon yet.'

The 2003 cartoon? I know tons of folks who would love to see it but they don't care to 'try to find episodes on Youtube, when they could be taken down any day/minute/etc.' or have to bootleg/torrent the thing. Nick has no signs in giving the show a proper, Decent release on DVD. It rarely gets mentioned (for example, it was ignored in the Turtle Power documentary...although granted, a lot of stuff got ignored as well... including the Nick show).

For the majority of folks out there (aka not the people on this forum), no one knows about this show or knows that it even existed.

No one mentions the show, talks about the show, or gives props to the show. The only place is on this forum, and that's it.

neatoman
03-03-2016, 04:16 PM
Yes, it is forgotten, under-appreciated, and overlooked. I honestly do not see how anyone could say differently on that.

The 80's cartoon got a complete series DVD set. It is still talked about to this day and it still influences things in this day & age in a huge way (aka the Nick show and Michael Bay films...mainly this new, upcoming one).

The Nick show (understandable since it is currently on) is talked about as if it is the best thing since sliced bread. It also helps that it has more money for promotion (since Nick has more bucks than 4Kids did) let alone the advent of Youtube/etc., which gets people to talk about it in video after video after video (how many internet stars or Youtubers talk about the 2003 cartoon...at least ones that have a giant fanbase ala Black Nerd?). And you even have websites like IGN and such rating every single episode of the new Nick show and calling it 'the best TMNT toon yet.'

The 2003 cartoon? I know tons of folks who would love to see it but they don't care to 'try to find episodes on Youtube, when they could be taken down any day/minute/etc.' or have to bootleg/torrent the thing. Nick has no signs in giving the show a proper, Decent release on DVD. It rarely gets mentioned (for example, it was ignored in the Turtle Power documentary...although granted, a lot of stuff got ignored as well... including the Nick show).

For the majority of folks out there (aka not the people on this forum), no one knows about this show or knows that it even existed.

No one mentions the show, talks about the show, or gives props to the show. The only place is on this forum, and that's it.

Well there's Tom Waltz I guess.

CyberCubed
03-03-2016, 05:54 PM
Yes, it is forgotten, under-appreciated, and overlooked. I honestly do not see how anyone could say differently on that.

The 80's cartoon got a complete series DVD set. It is still talked about to this day and it still influences things in this day & age in a huge way (aka the Nick show and Michael Bay films...mainly this new, upcoming one).

The Nick show (understandable since it is currently on) is talked about as if it is the best thing since sliced bread. It also helps that it has more money for promotion (since Nick has more bucks than 4Kids did) let alone the advent of Youtube/etc., which gets people to talk about it in video after video after video (how many internet stars or Youtubers talk about the 2003 cartoon...at least ones that have a giant fanbase ala Black Nerd?). And you even have websites like IGN and such rating every single episode of the new Nick show and calling it 'the best TMNT toon yet.'

The 2003 cartoon? I know tons of folks who would love to see it but they don't care to 'try to find episodes on Youtube, when they could be taken down any day/minute/etc.' or have to bootleg/torrent the thing. Nick has no signs in giving the show a proper, Decent release on DVD. It rarely gets mentioned (for example, it was ignored in the Turtle Power documentary...although granted, a lot of stuff got ignored as well... including the Nick show).

For the majority of folks out there (aka not the people on this forum), no one knows about this show or knows that it even existed.

No one mentions the show, talks about the show, or gives props to the show. The only place is on this forum, and that's it.

The 2k3 series is very well known. It had an extensive toyline and videogame merch attached to it.

Redeemer
03-03-2016, 08:19 PM
It aired on Fox, hence the "FoxBox."

I didn't necessarily air on Fox in all markets though. For example, I'm in the Chicagoland market. So for me, I saw it when it aired on our UPN affiliate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kids_TV#Markets_where_4Kids_TV_ran_on_a_MyNetwork TV_affiliate

Same here. It started on Fox, but after the first season or so moved to UPN.

Are you sure? I don't remember watching any episodes on Fox. I swear I saw all of them from the start on UPN.

The show was originally to be shown exclusively on Fox. The show moved over to upn and other channels ounce the contract expired.
source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_(2003_TV_series)

ABrown
03-04-2016, 09:18 AM
The show was originally to be shown exclusively on Fox. The show moved over to upn and other channels ounce the contract expired.
source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_(2003_TV_series)

Yes, that's true. However, shuriken and I were actually talking about on what channel Fox aired The Fox Box/4KidsTV for us here in the Chicagoland area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kids_TV#Markets_where_4Kids_TV_ran_on_a_MyNetwork TV_affiliate). But thank you though.

Redeemer
03-04-2016, 11:25 AM
Yes, that's true. However, shuriken and I were actually talking about on what channel Fox aired The Fox Box/4KidsTV for us here in the Chicagoland area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kids_TV#Markets_where_4Kids_TV_ran_on_a_MyNetwork TV_affiliate). But thank you though.

Gotcha I forgot how ass backwards Chicago is :P
joking of course :P

shuriken
03-06-2016, 02:37 AM
^^Wonky channels, 4 seasons in a week, city-wide corruption and a high murder rate. Good Ol' Chicago
But yes it aired the first season on Fox 32 (used to live in the neighborhood called HEART of Chicago so yeah) and during season 2 (or over the Summer before season 3) went to UPN Channel 50. Yup
I still have a VHS recording of episode 7. I believe that had the little fox 32 thing on the corner of the screen.

ABrown
03-06-2016, 01:35 PM
But yes it aired the first season on Fox 32 (used to live in the neighborhood called HEART of Chicago so yeah) and during season 2 (or over the Summer before season 3) went to UPN Channel 50. Yup
I still have a VHS recording of episode 7. I believe that had the little fox 32 thing on the corner of the screen.

I wish I still had my season one VHS recordings to check. However, I disposed of them as I bought the releases. I've still got the Back To The Sewer season VHS recordings since it was never released on DVD. But I swear I don't remember any episodes airing on FOX 32. I remember UPN 50 airing all of them from the start.

thundermaster612
03-06-2016, 02:19 PM
you guys talking about the VHS' sold with the newspaper

CyberCubed
03-06-2016, 03:45 PM
All the episodes are online...somewhere. Multiple sites even.

If you guys want to watch the show but don't own any of the old 4kids DVDs, you have plenty of ways to watch it.

Prowler
03-06-2016, 05:25 PM
All the episodes are online...somewhere. Multiple sites even.

If you guys want to watch the show but don't own any of the old 4kids DVDs, you have plenty of ways to watch it.
Kinda sucks not to be so practical to own this show on DVD, though.

shuriken
03-06-2016, 10:05 PM
I wish I still had my season one VHS recordings to check. However, I disposed of them as I bought the releases. I've still got the Back To The Sewer season VHS recordings since it was never released on DVD. But I swear I don't remember any episodes airing on FOX 32. I remember UPN 50 airing all of them from the start.

Well they did re-air them from the start I believe the summer of 04 (or 03 Like I said its iffy)
But the first season (at least most of it) aired on Fox a part ofthe FOXBOX (along with One Piece, Shaman King, Kirby, Winx, Fighting Food-ons, Ultimate Muscle, Sonic X and Sigma 6) Once they moved to UPN though, they were called 4kids and got rid of Fighting Food-ons and added another anime I can't seem to remember.

THGhost
03-06-2016, 10:24 PM
The fact that there's still no in-print DVD release for the 2K3 series speaks for itself. The show is super underappreciated.

Simply putting the show on something like Netflix would be a good idea, but there's no way Nick would go with that.

ABrown
03-07-2016, 11:20 AM
Well they did re-air them from the start I believe the summer of 04 (or 03 Like I said its iffy)
But the first season (at least most of it) aired on Fox a part ofthe FOXBOX (along with One Piece, Shaman King, Kirby, Winx, Fighting Food-ons, Ultimate Muscle, Sonic X and Sigma 6) Once they moved to UPN though, they were called 4kids and got rid of Fighting Food-ons and added another anime I can't seem to remember.

I wonder if your area of Chicago was different for some reason. I found a thread from Toonzone's forums (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/threads/fox-chicago-has-no-fox-box.3226201/) from January of 2003 pointing out how the FoxBox wasn't actually airing on Fox, and that it was airing on UPN 50. This would've been a few weeks before the 4Kids TMNT series premiered.

Xav
03-07-2016, 12:12 PM
I've still got the Back To The Sewer season VHS recordings since it was never released on DVD.Back to the Sewer actually was released on DVD but it was only in Australia I believe.

Yoshimickster
03-07-2016, 02:36 PM
Considering they are taking a GOOD long while to release all of it on DVD, I'd say so.

shuriken
03-07-2016, 04:07 PM
I wonder if your area of Chicago was different for some reason. I found a thread from Toonzone's forums (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/threads/fox-chicago-has-no-fox-box.3226201/) from January of 2003 pointing out how the FoxBox wasn't actually airing on Fox, and that it was airing on UPN 50. This would've been a few weeks before the 4Kids TMNT series premiered.

Hrmm weird. That's so whack though. Maybe my mind is screwing with me, but I remember FoxBox was on Fox for a tiny bit, but the majority of its run was on UPN. (I remember seeing the PROMOS for TMNT on Fox, but the actual show, meh) You're probably right though :ohwell:.
I'll look for the VHS tape over next weekend to confirm my suspicions.

Turo602
03-07-2016, 06:06 PM
Hrmm weird. That's so whack though. Maybe my mind is screwing with me, but I remember FoxBox was on Fox for a tiny bit, but the majority of its run was on UPN. (I remember seeing the PROMOS for TMNT on Fox, but the actual show, meh) You're probably right though :ohwell:.
I'll look for the VHS tape over next weekend to confirm my suspicions.

Yeah, I never recall the FoxBox airing on Fox, it was always on UPN.

Powder
03-07-2016, 06:15 PM
In NY it was on Fox all the way through 'till the spin-off seasons which were on CW.

shuriken
03-07-2016, 06:23 PM
Ok found it. Foxbox was on Fox, but the TMNT was never on Fox. The moved to UPN rather quickly. Then they switched the name to 4Kids at some point.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
03-08-2016, 10:48 AM
All the episodes are online...somewhere. Multiple sites even.

If you guys want to watch the show but don't own any of the old 4kids DVDs, you have plenty of ways to watch it.

In other words, by 'technically' illegal ways.

The 2003 show shouldn't have to be 'watched in technically illegal ways'. It deserves a bit more than that.

And to further prove it...this whole 'Nick & 80's cartoon crossover' that is currently on all of the news sites?

Everyone in the Public/Mainstream Media act like Turtles Forever never happened, and that this is some 'Brand/New/Once in a LifeTime' thing.

Which it isn't.

Oh, and of course Turtles Forever got a crappy as hell DVD release from Nick, too. Crappy format/picture ratio, terrible/lame cover, and footage missing...you have to buy the DVD from OVERSEAS to get A Better Cover, Proper Aspect Ratio, and the missing scenes put back into it. That's yet ANOTHER example of how unappreciated this show is...

Even the damn LAST Season has never been released in the United States. You think that's ever going to happen to Nick's Love Child aka the current one? No. Or the 'Golden Egg aka the 80's cartoon'? No (even with the bull of 'well, we can't find certain episodes'...they still eventually released all of the episodes of the 80's cartoon).

Just to the 2003 one. Of all of the Turtles media, it is definitely The Underdog.

Turtle-X
03-08-2016, 11:15 PM
the series is under appreciated and overlooked. sure, it had a ton of action figures, video games and other merch when the series was on tv. its status now is like Extreme Ghostbusters. hardcore fans know of it, some love it. the general public has already forgot about it.

CyberCubed
03-09-2016, 01:57 AM
The funny thing is ratings for the Nick cartoon nowadays aren't much higher than the 2k3 series in its prime.

Spike Spiegel
03-09-2016, 08:58 AM
The funny thing is ratings for the Nick cartoon nowadays aren't much higher than the 2k3 series in its prime.

I guess that's what happens when the show is on Nickelodeon rather than an obscure Saturday morning timeslot on FOX.

yeahduderad
03-15-2016, 12:54 AM
The 2k3 show was the closest we will get to a mirage type animated series, its amazing, well most of it

Galactus
03-15-2016, 10:08 PM
In some ways it's very under-appreciated by being so overlooked in the public consciousness but I do think it's the most influential version yet.

While the Nickelodeon series markets itself as embracing the old toon characters and concepts I've long felt that it had more in common with the 2k3 show down to some very specific similarities. Even the movie (for it's many faults) seemed to be visually draw a lot from show such as the turtles being bigger and Shredder's armor was clearly inspired by Ch'rell's sadly they put those designs through a Bay-filter but it's there. Even the truck in upcoming sequel has elements of the second Battle Shell and the Hauler from Back to the Sewers.

I was quite happy that when Nickelodeon re-aired the show in marathons the response I saw online from younger fans of the current series was favorable. Of course I don't expect Nickelodeon to do much with the series while they have their own on air.

Just because it had an amazing run doesn't mean it can't be overlooked. It still didn't have as big of an impact as the 87 series or even the current 2012 series. You can't honestly argue that TMNT in 2003 was as big or bigger than it was in the 80s, 90s, and even now. More people know who Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady are and what the Technodrome is than they do Hun or Bishop regardless if they ended up in the comics. It may have done well enough to get by for seven seasons but it was never this huge hit of a cartoon series. The show was even going down in ratings during season 4 which is why they skipped season 5 and went straight into Fast Forward. By then, they were just trying to salvage the series. Even when the show was still on air and new merchandising was announced, it was covered in OT Turtles.

I feel compelled to point the ratings for the current show aren't exactly huge either although I'd put that more on it's very weird schedule last season more than a genuine lack of interest.

In terms of it being more known the Nick series has come at a time were not only fans who grew up with the '87 series have kids of their own or just simply old enough to feel nostalgic. It's also come at a time that there's so many different heavily trafficked media sites that cover shows like this. I mean IGN reviews every episode.

There are people that probably more knowledgeable of this than me and can correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly but the main reason for skipping Season 5 and attempting to re-brand the show was due to toy sales.

In this case toys associated with the '03 series sold very well for two years, much better than Playmates had anticipated which caused them to get stars in their eyes and think turtlemania was coming again. the result was they more than doubled their output but the extra stock wasn't moving and after a while retailers grew incredibly angry at unsold TMNT stuff clogging their shelves thus causing everyone involved to try and 'fix' TMNT by doing things like Fast Forward.

Powder
03-15-2016, 10:45 PM
While the Nickelodeon series markets itself as embracing the old toon characters and concepts I've long felt that it had more in common with the 2k3 show down to some very specific similarities.

What similarities do you have in mind? As far as I can tell, the only things that make them alike are mutually borrowed from Mirage.

Galactus
03-15-2016, 11:38 PM
What similarities do you have in mind? As far as I can tell, the only things that make them alike are mutually borrowed from Mirage.

I think the two big ones are Donatello's crush on April and it being somewhat reciprocated. I know Ciro denied that this was based on the '03 show and said he had never watched it and we know were originally going to have Raphael be the one to crush on April but I struggle with it being shifted to Donatello coming from nowhere. At very least I think they must have read or heard about the 2k3 series Don having a unique bond with April.

The second big one I think is Karai being Shredder's adopted daughter. Likewise they've put their own spin on it but this is the one I really have a hard time believing it wasn't based on the '03 series. Even the idea the relationship with her and Leo seems to come I think is largely based on what she had with him in the 4kids series.

The boosted role of the Purple Dragons and them being connected to the Foot I think is another specific one.

Even the characterization of the turtles themselves and how they interact with each other seems more like the '03 played things than Mirage, Fred Wolf or the live action movies. like how Michelangelo is characterized as playfully annoying and for his brothers particularly Raph to lightly hit or chase him.

Technogeek29
03-16-2016, 12:28 AM
The usage of the Purple Dragons is the only other thing I can say that was probably borrowed from 2K3. Before then they were pretty obscure and just a one off gang. But they don't utilize them as well as 2K3 did sadly...

Powder
03-16-2016, 12:41 AM
I think the two big ones are Donatello's crush on April and it being somewhat reciprocated. I know Ciro denied that this was based on the '03 show and said he had never watched it and we know were originally going to have Raphael be the one to crush on April but I struggle with it being shifted to Donatello coming from nowhere. At very least I think they must have read or heard about the 2k3 series Don having a unique bond with April.

The second big one I think is Karai being Shredder's adopted daughter. Likewise they've put their own spin on it but this is the one I really have a hard time believing it wasn't based on the '03 series. Even the idea the relationship with her and Leo seems to come I think is largely based on what she had with him in the 4kids series.

The boosted role of the Purple Dragons and them being connected to the Foot I think is another specific one.

Even the characterization of the turtles themselves and how they interact with each other seems more like the '03 played things than Mirage, Fred Wolf or the live action movies. like how Michelangelo is characterized as playfully annoying and for his brothers particularly Raph to lightly hit or chase him.

Pretty fair points, I guess I hadn't realized it did make it's mark after all. Totally forgot about the Karai element. I don't really consider Don/April's thing a crush in the 4kids series, though. There's affection there, but not of a romantic nature. Ciro had said the decision to switch turtles was due to the chemistry Mae & Rob had riffing in early reads/sessions, IIRC.

LeotheLateBloomer
03-16-2016, 06:49 AM
I think the two big ones are Donatello's crush on April and it being somewhat reciprocated. I know Ciro denied that this was based on the '03 show and said he had never watched it and we know were originally going to have Raphael be the one to crush on April but I struggle with it being shifted to Donatello coming from nowhere. At very least I think they must have read or heard about the 2k3 series Don having a unique bond with April.

The second big one I think is Karai being Shredder's adopted daughter. Likewise they've put their own spin on it but this is the one I really have a hard time believing it wasn't based on the '03 series. Even the idea the relationship with her and Leo seems to come I think is largely based on what she had with him in the 4kids series.

The boosted role of the Purple Dragons and them being connected to the Foot I think is another specific one.

Even the characterization of the turtles themselves and how they interact with each other seems more like the '03 played things than Mirage, Fred Wolf or the live action movies. like how Michelangelo is characterized as playfully annoying and for his brothers particularly Raph to lightly hit or chase him.

Pretty much this.

I remember reading that they were going to have either Raph or all of the turtles have a crush on April.

The usage of the Purple Dragons is the only other thing I can say that was probably borrowed from 2K3. Before then they were pretty obscure and just a one off gang. But they don't utilize them as well as 2K3 did sadly...

To be fair, the Purple Dragons weren't utilized much in Mirage either but they were always minor, as far as I can recall.

Pretty fair points, I guess I hadn't realized it did make it's mark after all. Totally forgot about the Karai element. I don't really consider Don/April's thing a crush in the 4kids series, though. There's affection there, but not of a romantic nature. Ciro had said the decision to switch turtles was due to the chemistry Mae & Rob had riffing in early reads/sessions, IIRC.

Pretty much. I never understood why people believed that there was a crush in the 4Kids series.

neatoman
03-16-2016, 06:57 AM
What similarities do you have in mind? As far as I can tell, the only things that make them alike are mutually borrowed from Mirage.

In a sort of unintentional way aside from borrowing from Mirage, they're structured in a more similar manner.

Sure, the Nickelodeon cartoon may have some superficial similarites with the Fred Wolf cartoon, such as reusing a bunch of old toy characters that appeared in that show. On the other hand, the Fred Wolf cartoon was an episodic comedy where barely anything of relevance ever happened, the fight scenes were mostly just slapstick and you were very rarely ever meant to take anything seriously.

The similarities to the 2003 show (intentional or not) are more deep rooted. Both make use of an ongoing storyline, much more dramatic moments, world building, mysteries, plot twists, decent fight scenes, darker atmosphere (at times at least) etc.

Galactus
03-16-2016, 10:57 AM
Pretty much. I never understood why people believed that there was a crush in the 4Kids series.

Based on what you see in the show it's pretty debatable. Certainly official material from 4kids said that they had a close brother/sister relationship but then it would say that as I think they didn't want to walk the line of suggesting something inappropriate.

I remember a fan asked Dan Berger whether what fans saw as romantic feelings from Don was intentional or seeing what they want to see and he replied back it was intentional. I'd say there were some definite moments that you could see what they were going for.

shuriken
03-16-2016, 12:24 PM
Yeah Donnie didn't seem to have a crush on April so much as he was sort of affectionate towards her and felt a connection (through their mutual technological prowess) and admiration. 2012 Donnie is just kinda obsessed.

Diorm
03-16-2016, 11:05 PM
The 2003 series at least aired in France (and in French in Québec, Canada) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Tortues_Ninja_(s%C3%A9rie_t%C3%A9l%C3%A9vis%C3 %A9e_d%27animation,_2003)

Yes it did. It was on Télétoon. A well known channel for cartoon. I was awair of it but only watched it when it was over. Out of the three (four?) tv show, I got to say that its my favorite, storywise.

Technogeek29
03-21-2016, 12:47 PM
@Galactus

Leatherhead and Mikey having a kinship. Expanded upon more so in 2k12 but Mikey the first one to befriend him was something I first saw in 2k3.

Andrew NDB
03-21-2016, 01:34 PM
The 2k3 show was the closest we will get to a mirage type animated series

Which is unfortunate, since it was pretty ****ing far away from that.

TMNTInsighter
03-22-2016, 08:50 PM
I think so. The voice actors did a fantastic job, they may be the best ensemble of the turtles I've ever seen. I like that the 2012 series is a good, if not perfect, mix of 1987 and 2003 but I'd still take 2003 for its performances, tone, and writing.

Krutch
04-19-2016, 09:16 AM
It's funny... considering I still haven't even seen the last season, I still consider this my favourite TMNT universe. Even as I read TMNT comics now, it's still all in the 2k3 voices.

There was a lot to love about the show, and yes, it's definitely under appreciated.

Which is actually pretty sad.

LeotheLateBloomer
04-19-2016, 09:56 AM
^This! This so much!

Whatswiththeheadbands?
04-19-2016, 05:49 PM
And Nickelodeon has done very little to make it more known to the general public.

shuriken
04-20-2016, 12:27 AM
Which is unfortunate, since it was pretty ****ing far away from that.

I mean you got Turtle Prime Cameos in Turtles Forever so there's that right?

Phoenix Fire
04-22-2016, 12:49 PM
I recently went back and watched some of Season 1 of the 2003 series, and was really surprised how well it held up. The art is beautiful, the fighting scenes are amazing, and the characters are really well done.

My only complaint about the series is the theme song, I just never cared for it all that much.

ABrown
04-22-2016, 01:01 PM
My only complaint about the series is the theme song, I just never cared for it all that much.

Hmm, interesting. I actually found it very catchy.

Wesley
04-22-2016, 04:13 PM
Hmm, interesting. I actually found it very catchy.

I loved the original theme song. I actually prefer it over the ones from other tmnt shows. Didn't like the Fast Forward one but Back to the Sewers' was alright.

Krutch
04-22-2016, 07:17 PM
My only complaint about the series is the theme song, I just never cared for it all that much.
Yup. Ditto.

Prowler
04-22-2016, 08:18 PM
Fred Wolf's theme song is unlikely to ever get surpassed. That's one of the greatest cartoon OPs of all time.

CyberCubed
04-22-2016, 08:25 PM
I recently went back and watched some of Season 1 of the 2003 series, and was really surprised how well it held up. The art is beautiful, the fighting scenes are amazing, and the characters are really well done.

Why would you expect it to not hold up as if it was dated? Writing and animation from 2003 isn't much different than now in 2016.

Well written shows from the 90's still hold up.

Prowler
04-22-2016, 08:27 PM
Why would you expect it to not hold up as if it was dated? Writing and animation from 2003 isn't much different than now in 2016.

Well written shows from the 90's still hold up.
The only thing that feels dated about the first season are the Matrix references(Guardians). No one cares about the Matrix these days, but it sure was quite an influential series at the time the 2k3 TMNT series came out.

CyberCubed
04-22-2016, 08:29 PM
The only thing that feels dated about the first season are the Matrix references(Guardians). No one cares about the Matrix these days, but it sure was quite an influential series at the time the 2k3 TMNT series came out.

I don't even think of the Matrix when I watch it.

Prowler
04-22-2016, 08:32 PM
I don't even think of the Matrix when I watch it.
I do... and I haven't even watched any of the Matrix films. :lol:

Technogeek29
04-22-2016, 09:48 PM
I recently went back and watched some of Season 1 of the 2003 series, and was really surprised how well it held up. The art is beautiful, the fighting scenes are amazing, and the characters are really well done.

My only complaint about the series is the theme song, I just never cared for it all that much.

I actually like season 4 version the most when it introduces the Turtles one by one and Mikey dancing on the roof with Shredder's helmet.

DarkLightDragon
04-23-2016, 07:05 AM
[/B]

I actually like season 4 version the most when it introduces the Turtles one by one and Mikey dancing on the roof with Shredder's helmet.

Only to be replaced with Karai giving a actually menacing "Watch out for Shredder!" after Scion of the Shredder. Nice little touch.

triplexxx
04-30-2016, 01:55 PM
Don't think I'll ever have the same nostalgia for it as the first toon, but it has served a good purpose in tmnt fandom and is indeed deserving of continuous recognition.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-30-2016, 05:21 PM
I recently went back and watched some of Season 1 of the 2003 series, and was really surprised how well it held up. The art is beautiful, the fighting scenes are amazing, and the characters are really well done.

My only complaint about the series is the theme song, I just never cared for it all that much.

It's great, but the lines "never fight unless, someone else starts" are silly.

Chopperface
05-02-2016, 01:41 PM
Absolutely. For a show that had strong arcs and character development, on 4Kids of all places? It definitely deserves more love. Today the series is obscure when doesn't deserve the descent into obscurity, even with the worst of Fast Forward or whatever.

rodster6
05-24-2016, 02:23 PM
This is my favorite of the three cartoon series. The writing and stories are far superior, especially to the original series. The animation is gorgeous (for the first few seasons anyway)
I think the series shot itself in the foot with Turtles Forever. The way it seemed so bitter towards the old show and didn't portray the old Turtles properly I think soured a lot of fans against the 4kids series. That and the last couple of seasons having that horrible simplified animation and becoming gimmicky with going to the future and into cyberspace.
After finishing the Utrom Shredder storyline the show seemed to fall into an existential crisis, not really knowing what to do with itself. I'd have preferred they introduced old show characters like Bebop, Rocksteady, Slash etc rather than going to the future and cyberspace.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-24-2016, 05:54 PM
After finishing the Utrom Shredder storyline the show seemed to fall into an existential crisis, not really knowing what to do with itself. I'd have preferred they introduced old show characters like Bebop, Rocksteady, Slash etc rather than going to the future and cyberspace.

Of if they didn't want Bebop, Rocksteady and Slash: just cancel the series.

Wesley
05-25-2016, 09:48 AM
Absolutely. For a show that had strong arcs and character development, on 4Kids of all places? It definitely deserves more love. Today the series is obscure when doesn't deserve the descent into obscurity, even with the worst of Fast Forward or whatever.

Agreed. There were some bad episodes, but that applies to most shows anyway.

SwordofTengu
06-09-2016, 06:20 PM
I think so. I am finally sitting down and finishing the 2k3 series from where I left off about 3 years ago (partway through Season 4) and it's a great show. The 2k3 series has the unfortunate situation of being sandwiched between two other animated turtles shows, and its darker nature will probably alienate people who grew up on or previously saw the original show.
Additionally, it had more of an identity crisis than the other two shows I think. The original show was more or less consistent in tone for a lot of its run, with the exception of the last 3 seasons which changed things up (though they only consisted of 24 of the 196 episodes of the series). The 2k3 series however changed quite dramatically with the Fast Forward season, which typically gets mistaken as a different series altogether. I am not looking forward to this season once I get to it, because I here it's not very good. Even Back to the Sewer could be confused as a different series as well.
Then the 2012 series (which I have only seen the first few episodes of, but I want to change that) I have heard has more or less stayed consistent in tone. At the end of the day, I think a lot of TMNT fans and even the general public like the Turtles more lighthearted than not.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-10-2016, 10:33 AM
After finishing the Utrom Shredder storyline the show seemed to fall into an existential crisis, not really knowing what to do with itself. I'd have preferred they introduced old show characters like Bebop, Rocksteady, Slash etc rather than going to the future and cyberspace.

I could three different ways:
*International travel between countries on Earth
*Spave travel between various planets and natural satellites (bet we already had adventures on D'Hoonib during early-season 2)
*Time travel between various eras of history and the future

nWoCHRISnWo
06-12-2016, 12:26 AM
It's my favourite TMNT universe/medium. I'm surprised it doesn't get more live. To faithfully recreate so many original TMNT storylines, and create many new ones, mostly within multiple episode story arcs, was so awesome. I was not a fan of Fast Forward, but I really enjoyed the series otherwise.

The incredible build up in the first few seasons was almost surreal to me.

Powder
06-12-2016, 01:02 AM
I wouldn't say they "faithfully" recreated them.

oldmanwinters
06-12-2016, 07:48 PM
I wouldn't say they "faithfully" recreated them.

Haha, I just finished watching "The Golden Puck" too. What a stupid adaptation of an already bizarre filler tale. I'm mostly disappointed they didn't get to wear their "Unmentionables (http://plasticplayhouse.deviantart.com/art/Don-t-mention-it-415477942)" outfits.

Krutch
06-17-2016, 09:47 AM
I'd like to see some high-end statues or something made of this series, but somehow I doubt that'll ever happen.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-17-2016, 02:01 PM
It's my favourite TMNT universe/medium. I'm surprised it doesn't get more live. To faithfully recreate so many original TMNT storylines, and create many new ones, mostly within multiple episode story arcs, was so awesome. I was not a fan of Fast Forward, but I really enjoyed the series otherwise.

The incredible build up in the first few seasons was almost surreal to me.

It's said Fast Forward came when the toys didn't sell as good as producers wanted.

FredWolfLeonardo
06-18-2016, 01:11 AM
Yes, I do think it is under appreciated. For fans like me who aren't interested in reading comics but prefer having tv shows, having the 2k3 show is the closest we'll get to having a mirage tmnt on tv. Infact, I grew up watching the 2k3 show here and there and not the OT

Even if it was not connected to the mirage, I think it has many strong points. The voice acting, the animation especially on the fight scenes, the story arcs and character development, the background music which I think is underrated, really good characters like leonardo and Bishop and lastly, the sheer number of great episodes it produced especially from seasons 1-5.

As much as I love both the OT and the Nick show, i feel that the 2k3 show, even though it was a hit, never became as popular as the former two, especially the OT. It deserved alot more love. Maybe when the Nick show ends and the maybe general interest in tmnt will shift away from FW and towards mirage, then the 2k3 series will get more praise and be noticed more as the show that was the closest to the original comics and brought tmnt back to life after turtle mania ended.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-24-2016, 11:54 AM
As much as I love both the OT and the Nick show, i feel that the 2k3 show, even though it was a hit, never became as popular as the former two, especially the OT.

Sure nothing bate the 1987 cartoon when it came to commercial success and popularity. But I don't know which of 2003 or 2012 became the most popular.

neatoman
06-24-2016, 01:15 PM
Sure nothing bate the 1987 cartoon when it came to commercial success and popularity. But I don't know which of 2003 or 2012 became the most popular.

We can't really tell until... well, the 2012 series is in the same position as the 2003 series.

When people day the 2003 series is "forgotten", I think it has more to do with how another TMNT cartoon popped up 3 years after it concluded and is still going on, of course people are going to talk more about the one that's still on. I suspect that when the next TMNT cartoon is two years in or so, the 2012 series will also be "forgotten".

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-24-2016, 01:47 PM
We can't really tell until... well, the 2012 series is in the same position as the 2003 series.

When people day the 2003 series is "forgotten", I think it has more to do with how another TMNT cartoon popped up 3 years after it concluded and is still going on, of course people are going to talk more about the one that's still on. I suspect that when the next TMNT cartoon is two years in or so, the 2012 series will also be "forgotten".

Maybe it's possible to compare saleswise (toys, videogames and other merchandise). If you regard the fact of different currency values in 2003 and 2012 because of inflation. Maybe 2012 has already outsold 2003? I don't know if DVD (including legal download) shall coult since it's easier to get that over the Internet now.

TheSkeletonMan939
06-24-2016, 08:16 PM
Maybe it's possible to compare saleswise (toys, videogames and other merchandise).

I think the Nick cartoon just has a larger viewership than the 4Kids series did, which could obviously account for differences in merchandise sales.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-25-2016, 11:02 AM
I think the Nick cartoon just has a larger viewership than the 4Kids series did, which could obviously account for differences in merchandise sales.

It seems Nickelodeon is working harder at marketing the turtles than Foxbox-4 Kids TV.

ABrown
06-25-2016, 11:07 AM
What's tough is that the 4Kids series aired on an over the air television station that people could watch for free. Whereas Nick's series airs on Nickelodoen, a channel that not everyone has access to. But it certainly seems like both series have been successful. It's hard to tell though which one has been more successful in their first four seasons.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-25-2016, 11:10 AM
What's tough is that the 4Kids series aired on an over the air television station that people could watch for free. Whereas Nick's series airs on Nickelodoen, a channel that not everyone has access to. But it certainly seems like both series have been successful. It's hard to tell though which one has been more successful in their first four seasons.

But it's easier to watch it over the Youbue now (even if that doesn't count in the statistics).

TheSkeletonMan939
06-25-2016, 08:27 PM
But it's easier to watch it over the Youbue now (even if that doesn't count in the statistics).

Nah, Viacom has been policing 4Kids videos harder than usual on YouTube.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-26-2016, 09:40 AM
Nah, Viacom has been policing 4Kids videos harder than usual on YouTube.

I'm talking of the Nickelodeon cartoon comparted to the 2003 one.

WolvDragon
06-28-2016, 02:23 PM
Considering this is what got me into the franchise in the first place. As someone who used to watch the Fox Box like all the damn time in the last decade and 4kidsTV when it was renamed as such. Yes the show is really underappreciated. Heck the show never got an honorable mentioned in the TMNT documentary (Although they did get one of the people involved in it's production for the documentary).

What get's me is that this show which had alot going for it, but for some reason it's not as fondly remembered aside from the fans. It had Character development, overarching plot lines, incredible fighting scenes etc. Sure it wasn't perfect, but to me it was an incredible show, and the best TMNT cartoon out there.

It lasted over 100 episodes which is a rarity for most cartoons back and today. If the show wasn't so successful it wouldn't have gotten so far.

However, I'm glad they included Hun and Bishop into the 2012 cartoon. At least they threw us 2003 fans a bone when they been catering to older fans of the 87 cartoon.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-29-2016, 10:52 AM
Heck the show never got an honorable mentioned in the TMNT documentary

Why not, when it symbolizes the second generation of major TMNT fandom.

xbennoda
07-05-2016, 09:09 PM
Words cannot explain how unappreciated this era of the Turtles is, honestly. It's very hard to find people in my country that know that this era existed, since they only know the '87 cartoon and the current Nick one. I, in my opinion, am not a fan of either of those... I just can't wrap my head around how immature those two are. With 2k3 you can experience a balance between comedy and actual fighting. The plot is great, literally perfection to me. I miss it so much. :tcry:

Wesley
07-06-2016, 12:30 PM
Words cannot explain how unappreciated this era of the Turtles is, honestly. It's very hard to find people in my country that know that this era existed, since they only know the '87 cartoon and the current Nick one. I, in my opinion, am not a fan of either of those... I just can't wrap my head around how immature those two are. With 2k3 you can experience a balance between comedy and actual fighting. The plot is great, literally perfection to me. I miss it so much. :tcry:

I agree with what you've said about 2003. It's my favourite tmnt cartoon and the definitive one to me. I still enjoy the 87 cartoon but not as much as I did when I was younger. It's alright in small doses, but gets repetitive. I tried getting into the 2012 show, but it just doesn't interest me enough. It suffers from an identity crisis, as it can't strike the right balance between being light-hearted and serious.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-06-2016, 12:53 PM
Words cannot explain how unappreciated this era of the Turtles is, honestly. It's very hard to find people in my country that know that this era existed, since they only know the '87 cartoon and the current Nick one. I, in my opinion, am not a fan of either of those... I just can't wrap my head around how immature those two are. With 2k3 you can experience a balance between comedy and actual fighting. The plot is great, literally perfection to me. I miss it so much. :tcry:

Actually, I think at most places around the Earth people know of:
1) 1987 cartoon
2) Archie TMNT Adventure Comics
3) Cinema films (both early-1990's original and 2010's reboot)

I know people who are aware of the 2003 cartoon and the 2012 one but havn't sit down watching episodes. Some of them know 2003 as a "failed attempt to score the same commercial success with TMNT" and 2012 as a new attempt.

wpugh2424
07-06-2016, 09:03 PM
I don't know if it's under appreciated. They had lots of toys and games. I will say it may be the least well known of the three, but imho, it's the best storyline of all of them at least until fast forward where it seems to have taken an awkward turn for me.
I love this series and am bout to watch it again In its entirety as I've just watched the OT during my workouts over the last few months.

Zog
07-06-2016, 10:50 PM
Words cannot explain how unappreciated this era of the Turtles is, honestly. It's very hard to find people in my country that know that this era existed, since they only know the '87 cartoon and the current Nick one. I, in my opinion, am not a fan of either of those... I just can't wrap my head around how immature those two are. With 2k3 you can experience a balance between comedy and actual fighting. The plot is great, literally perfection to me. I miss it so much. :tcry:

Easily my favorite version of the turtles and one of my favorite cartoons of all time. I wish that this series got more recognition and that a series dvd/blu-ray would release.

Unworthy tinker
07-06-2016, 10:53 PM
By the general public, yes, I'd say it's pretty under-appreciated. However, it seems like it's that way with most TMNT stuff, especially when compared to the 80's cartoon. Closest to being as big as that was the current cartoon and Bayturtles, but that's still not saying much, especially more recently, with the cartoon kinda falling under the radar and OOTS flopping.

But by the fandom though, not at all. We're all on this forum because we're big fans who most likely totally know that the 2003 cartoon exists.

FlawedCoil82
07-07-2016, 04:29 AM
I absolutely feel that this series is under-appreciated. Just the simple fact alone that we still do not have a full series DVD set available in 2016 is beyond inexcusable. Even when I go to flea markets, I never see toys or merchandise from this series. It is such a shame because I feel that it was easily the best animated series the TMNT have had thus far. But just like most other forms of entertainment in this backwards society, the things that deserve praise never get it while the things that do not deserve it are heavily rewarded.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-07-2016, 06:04 AM
I never see toys or merchandise from this series.

Of course we don't see toys or other merchandise from it today. The question is how common it was between 2003-2009 when it aired (I just know it had toys and a spinoff-Dreamwave comic book lasting for 7 issues or so).

FlawedCoil82
07-07-2016, 02:25 PM
Of course we don't see toys or other merchandise from it today. The question is how common it was between 2003-2009 when it aired (I just know it had toys and a spinoff-Dreamwave comic book lasting for 7 issues or so).

Thats why I said "at flea markets" which sells items not currently available anymore in retail stores. But I see plenty of other merch from the 80s, 90s (movie related) plus the Nick series. I don't see anyone who bought up 4kids TMNT merchandise to resell at flea markets. The series seems mostly forgotten in today's world.

xbennoda
07-07-2016, 05:18 PM
Easily my favorite version of the turtles and one of my favorite cartoons of all time. I wish that this series got more recognition and that a series dvd/blu-ray would release.
I definitely agree. I don't like depending on YT to watch the entire series 'cause if the internet crashes I'm left with a useless computer pretty much. I'd buy it on Blu-Ray no matter what the cost is. It'd be so worth it.

WebLurker
09-12-2016, 12:05 AM
In all honesty, I feel the series is actually a little overrated.

To be fair, I don't think it's bad by any stretch and did do some good stuff, but I think it has a few flaws in comparison to its predecessor and successor cartoons.

First off, I don't think the animation is that great. It's a little stiff and the characters are nowhere near as expressive as they are in the other shows.

The voice cast, while not bad, felt kind of flat. It really sounds like they're recording their lines separately, whereas the other shows really do sound like the characters conversing. The actual performances are also a little lifeless. Compare 2003 Donatello to the 2012 version. The latter is a far more dimensional character based on the line delivery alone.

2003 TMNT cannot do humor to save its life. Jokes fall like lead balloons and are painful to listen to. Mikey also crosses the very thin line from being entertaining to annoying and suffers from the poor humor a lot.

I also recall that the show lacks the joy of the other cartoons. There's something about it that doesn't seem as full of life. Not sure if I'm explaining it well, but there it is.

I think that 2003 TMNT's biggest asset was it's its ability to do serious stories and drama.

Now, the series did have some notable influences. Hun was created for this. I've heard that the IDW comics use it as an influence, in tone at least. The 2012 cartoon incorporated their own versions of of the Earth Protection Force, Bishop, and adapted Turtles Forever in "Transdimensional Turtles."

So, I think that the reasons that 2003 may be lesser remembered of the cartoons because I think it has several weak points in the presentation and execution that detract from it. Comparing it to the other shows is also very hard. The '80s cartoon is so iconic (it practically wrote the book on what TMNT is supposed to be, according to the general public) and the 2012 cartoon is a really well-rounded show (it hit the sweet spot between the previous cartoons in terms of humor and dramas), and very arguably superior to the previous cartoons in regards to casting, animation, and writing.

So, do I think it deserves more appreciation? No, I don't think it's quite as great as remembered (either as is or in comparison to its fellow cartoons), it has left its mark on the franchise, and already has a fanbase. But, I will repeat, it's not bad in and of itself (I'd kind of like a chance to see it from beginning to end), and it is a shame that the DVD releases are incomplete.

Andy1999
09-12-2016, 07:33 AM
Its my favourite TMNT show :)

Longview01
09-13-2016, 01:08 AM
I've tried several times to get into 2012 Turtles but the animation does my head in, I don't like the new April at all and the whole show feels like some sort of kickback to the original which is why I loved Turtles 2K3 because it tried to distance itself from the 80s cartoon

CyberCubed
09-13-2016, 01:22 AM
I've tried several times to get into 2012 Turtles but the animation does my head in, I don't like the new April at all and the whole show feels like some sort of kickback to the original which is why I loved Turtles 2K3 because it tried to distance itself from the 80s cartoon

The CG animation in the Nick cartoon is quite good and it continues to improve with each passing season. The new April is also fine.

Give it another shot because it is quite good.

SKX31
09-13-2016, 10:34 AM
In all honesty, I feel the series is actually a little overrated.

To be fair, I don't think it's bad by any stretch and did do some good stuff, but I think it has a few flaws in comparison to its predecessor and successor cartoons.

First off, I don't think the animation is that great. It's a little stiff and the characters are nowhere near as expressive as they are in the other shows.

The voice cast, while not bad, felt kind of flat. It really sounds like they're recording their lines separately, whereas the other shows really do sound like the characters conversing. The actual performances are also a little lifeless. Compare 2003 Donatello to the 2012 version. The latter is a far more dimensional character based on the line delivery alone.

2003 TMNT cannot do humor to save its life. Jokes fall like lead balloons and are painful to listen to. Mikey also crosses the very thin line from being entertaining to annoying and suffers from the poor humor a lot.

I also recall that the show lacks the joy of the other cartoons. There's something about it that doesn't seem as full of life. Not sure if I'm explaining it well, but there it is.

I think that 2003 TMNT's biggest asset was it's its ability to do serious stories and drama.

Now, the series did have some notable influences. Hun was created for this. I've heard that the IDW comics use it as an influence, in tone at least. The 2012 cartoon incorporated their own versions of of the Earth Protection Force, Bishop, and adapted Turtles Forever in "Transdimensional Turtles."

So, I think that the reasons that 2003 may be lesser remembered of the cartoons because I think it has several weak points in the presentation and execution that detract from it. Comparing it to the other shows is also very hard. The '80s cartoon is so iconic (it practically wrote the book on what TMNT is supposed to be, according to the general public) and the 2012 cartoon is a really well-rounded show (it hit the sweet spot between the previous cartoons in terms of humor and dramas), and very arguably superior to the previous cartoons in regards to casting, animation, and writing.

So, do I think it deserves more appreciation? No, I don't think it's quite as great as remembered (either as is or in comparison to its fellow cartoons), it has left its mark on the franchise, and already has a fanbase. But, I will repeat, it's not bad in and of itself (I'd kind of like a chance to see it from beginning to end), and it is a shame that the DVD releases are incomplete.

I do see the points you raise as pretty valid. Yes, I'm a 2K3 fan through and through, but I agree that the humor's - at best - very wobbly and often falls flat, I can see why people think the voice cast sounds meh (especially if you're more familiar with the OT / Nick interpretations*), and the animation budget's inconsistent most of the time.

That said, it can be pretty infuriating to see TMNT be viewed by quite a lot of people as only consisting of OT, Nick and possibly the 1990 movie / whichever movie is the latest one (or nostalgic versions thereof when it comes to OT / 90) - thereby missing out of major TMNT productions such as the Mirage comics or 2K3**. Nick's own treatment of 2K3 doesn't really help matters - thus the calls for at least more DVD or iTunes releases.

And thus, the general sense that the cartoon's underappreciated, or even forgotten - and that has unfortunately happened to a large extent. Nick is very open about their OT influences - but not so open about the influences from elsewhere, not just 2K3.

In the end, while I'm perfectly fine with 2K3's legacy per se (it was a major influence in future TMNT stuff - and it shows when Nick straight up repeated 2K3's opening shot for their first episode) I'm not fine with a) Nick's handling of a perfectly good show, and b) the total cultural foregetfulness.

*(The low point being the Garbageman - which is pretty much Mike Pollock reusing his Eggman voice. Come on...)

**The same applies for when people only think of the most famous part of a brand, like G1 / Bay movie Transformers or imagining MLP:FiM as mostly the same as previous gens - especially G3. Point is that tons of potentially enjoyable material is missed out of that way - like Beast Wars or Prime in TF's case.

WebLurker
09-13-2016, 01:24 PM
I do see the points you raise as pretty valid. Yes, I'm a 2K3 fan through and through, but I agree that the humor's - at best - very wobbly and often falls flat, I can see why people think the voice cast sounds meh (especially if you're more familiar with the OT / Nick interpretations*), and the animation budget's inconsistent most of the time.

I did like their casting for April (that's the voice I tend to hear when thinking of the adult version of the character) and thought Splinter was good for the characterization they were going for. I have heard worse voice casts before, but, I do really like the work done on the other shows better.

That said, it can be pretty infuriating to see TMNT be viewed by quite a lot of people as only consisting of OT, Nick and possibly the 1990 movie / whichever movie is the latest one (or nostalgic versions thereof when it comes to OT / 90) - thereby missing out of major TMNT productions such as the Mirage comics or 2K3**. Nick's own treatment of 2K3 doesn't really help matters - thus the calls for at least more DVD or iTunes releases.

Well, the OT is such a piece of pop culture, I honestly don't think anything is going to really take its place in the franchise, the Nick show is so new that I think it's too early to tell how it'll be remembered going forward. However, it is the current thing, so I guess it kind of makes some sense that the 2003 show is somewhat on the back burner in comparison.

Agree though, that the entire series should be on the home market.

And thus, the general sense that the cartoon's underappreciated, or even forgotten - and that has unfortunately happened to a large extent. Nick is very open about their OT influences - but not so open about the influences from elsewhere, not just 2K3.

Well, Nick does pretty clearly borrow from everything (down to Easter egg references to the CGI movie and the old RPG), but I think a lot of the OT iconography and ideas have become so associated with the brand, that it does seem like Nick is OT.2 (although I will concede that the show was made to channel that show a lot in any event).

In the end, while I'm perfectly fine with 2K3's legacy per se (it was a major influence in future TMNT stuff - and it shows when Nick straight up repeated 2K3's opening shot for their first episode) I'm not fine with a) Nick's handling of a perfectly good show, and b) the total cultural foregetfulness.

*(The low point being the Garbageman - which is pretty much Mike Pollock reusing his Eggman voice. Come on...)

**The same applies for when people only think of the most famous part of a brand, like G1 / Bay movie Transformers or imagining MLP:FiM as mostly the same as previous gens - especially G3. Point is that tons of potentially enjoyable material is missed out of that way - like Beast Wars or Prime in TF's case.

Well, we'll see where things go.

CyberCubed
09-13-2016, 07:13 PM
Both the 2k3 and Nick series are critically acclaimed.

Longview01
09-18-2016, 05:15 AM
The CG animation in the Nick cartoon is quite good and it continues to improve with each passing season. The new April is also fine.

Give it another shot because it is quite good.

I don't like CG animation in general, I watch the odd episode with my daughter and i'm really not feeling it

WebLurker
09-18-2016, 12:26 PM
I don't like CG animation in general, I watch the odd episode with my daughter and i'm really not feeling it

Fair enough. I like animation in general, so for me, I don't see one as better than the other (both have their place and I'd like to see them co-exist, IMHO). I, myself, really like the TMNT 2012 animation, but if you don't care for the CGI sub-genre of animation, I can get that it it's not in your wheel house.

Longview01
09-18-2016, 05:35 PM
Fair enough. I like animation in general, so for me, I don't see one as better than the other (both have their place and I'd like to see them co-exist, IMHO). I, myself, really like the TMNT 2012 animation, but if you don't care for the CGI sub-genre of animation, I can get that it it's not in your wheel house.

I think the fact I spent alot of my teenage years watching Manga and various other adult Japanese animations makes Turtles 2K3 more appealing to me

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-19-2016, 12:46 PM
Coputer animation is here to stay and improve, if so older viewers like it or not. It's great to have three TMNT versions, each in different styles.

Longview01
09-19-2016, 01:02 PM
Coputer animation is here to stay and improve, if so older viewers like it or not. It's great to have three TMNT versions, each in different styles.

I wrote out a reply to this and I deleted it all because I don't get your angle...its obviously aimed at me saying I don't care much for CGI but at no point did I say they shouldn't use it or that I didn't understand how people could like it at all.

Traditional animation still exists, true its pretty niche now but its still out there so I think your comment is pretty redundant

Klunk1234
11-20-2016, 01:50 AM
Most people born in the 80's would've been in their teens when the 4Kids show started.

They are 80's babies and 90's kids and yes, 00's teens.You are right. But Cyber is a 80's baby and a 90's kid.

Mid- 80's kids, not babies are the ones who grow up with the original TMNT cartoons, Voltron, Thundercats, etc, by early 90's they were teens.

But the topic here is: Is that 2003 TMNT series is under- appreciated? I put yes. See my comment above.

Coola Yagami
11-20-2016, 08:54 AM
It's jus to forgotten. It kinds came at an awkward time, coupled with a forgettable cgi movie and games coming out when they were just getting used to 3d graphics and Konami was starting to suck. To its credit, it brought newfound awareness to the original mirage comics and brought in things that even the bay movies decided to.... somewhat use... namely black Baxter and Karai. The horrible home releases didn't help either missing entire episodes.

2012 is what's happening now so naturally it's on everyone's mind and I guess it was the right time for a second smaller turtle mania boom complete with stores full of their merchandise and a float at the Macy's parade. I honestly see way more kids into tmnt stuff now than back in the day. It felt like I was the only guy in toys R us looking for tmnt figures. Now I have to hope my figure of choice isn't sold out. And in this day and age of pop vinyls and mystery boxes and hot topic's nostalgia trip, there's an onslaught of 2012 and 80s tmnt everywhere.

It's just bad timing and the world was in a different mindset back in 03. I'm pretty sure if 2003 was released today it would have been just as successful as the 2012 or at least more than it was at the time. Perhaps with a bigger budget due to more ratings/toysales we would have avoided the fast forward and back to the sewers crap budget animation.

neatoman
11-20-2016, 10:50 AM
Meh, Tom Waltz certainly remembers and draws inspiration from it, the Nick crew (possibly begrudgingly) remembers and draws inspiration from it, that's all that really matters to me.

As long as we see Hun, Bishop, Angel, Ch'rell, The Battle Nexus, etc pop up in new material, I know it's remembered where it actually counts: Amongst fans and creators.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-11-2017, 06:58 AM
Meh, Tom Waltz certainly remembers and draws inspiration from it, the Nick crew (possibly begrudgingly) remembers and draws inspiration from it, that's all that really matters to me.

As long as we see Hun, Bishop, Angel, Ch'rell, The Battle Nexus, etc pop up in new material, I know it's remembered where it actually counts: Amongst fans and creators.

Angel is one of the most well-written child and teenage-chracters within TMNT. Together with Archie's Oyuki.

Leolead
02-18-2017, 05:51 AM
Totally. It opened the door to a more traditional TMNT going foward

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-18-2017, 06:18 AM
Battle Nexus

I don't like Battle Nexus. Just because the turtles kick butt, they don't need to be the greatest fighters of all times and space throughout the Multiverse, or not even on Earth. Even if it's just a sport.

Prefer Archie's intergalactic pro-wrestling then. At least there they just won a tournament, without even being considered the greatest fighters in the Universe.

neatoman
02-18-2017, 07:26 AM
Battle Nexus

I don't like Battle Nexus. Just because the turtles kick butt, they don't need to be the greatest fighters of all times and space throughout the Multiverse, or not even on Earth. Even if it's just a sport.

Prefer Archie's intergalactic pro-wrestling then. At least there they just won a tournament, without even being considered the greatest fighters in the Universe.

But they didn't really win though, Mikey did but by complete accident.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-18-2017, 07:57 AM
Also, Battle Nexus felt forced because of that videogame.

But anyway, the season 3 opening with Triceratons attacking Earth was great.

Koi
02-18-2017, 01:37 PM
The 2003 show I do feel is not as appreciated, but I don't believe as many people watched it as the other incarnations of the show. Hard to appreciate something not as many people grew up with and enjoyed like some of us did. Just my opinion based off of talking with other people. Weirdly enough I think more people know of the Kramp Twins then the 2003 Ninja turtle show from my conversations...

Prowler
09-25-2017, 07:02 AM
Well, based on what I've read about this show being overlooked and forgotten by the general audience, I think it can be summed up in a few points:

- It aired on a not so big channel compared to the FW and Nick series. FoxBox, I believe, was the home of the 2k3 series? FoxBox which used to be known as Fox Kids in the 90s, I think. Not exactly an obscure network, but not as big as Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon. Probably not as big as Disney Channel was in its prime either? Also, maybe there are places in USA where people didn't get FoxBox?

- It came out at a time where streaming had not taken off yet. IMO, this is another factor. I mean, like it's been said, it aired on a channel that wasn't as big as other cartoon channels at the time, thus it was harder for the general audience to find it, whether deliberate or by accident. If legal streaming was around back then, then I beleive more people would have gotten into it.

- It came out before the social media craze: No Facebook, Twitter, youtube(well it debuted in 2006, and by the time the show was already in its 4th season I think). Meaning not many places online where people could talk about the show except for forums such as this one. Back then, admitting to browsing the internet all day long was still social suicide or considered a very nerdy thing to do. So not many people of the "popular crowd" had any idea of this show. It's not like nowadays where people watch tv shows and movies on their phones or can get onto the internet easily anywhere with their phone or tablet. Remember when you could perfectly live/survive without having internet at home for a month or two or perhaps even more?

- Not being as heavily promoted as the FW and Nick series were/are: This most likely ties into it airing on FoxBox. FW had a huge machine behind it which allowed it to be as successful as it was and still is after all these years. And Nick belongs to Viacom. Hell, look at the movies released during each cartoon's tenure. Notice how the 2k3 series only got one movie and it was in CGI? And not many people remember that movie asides from big TMNT fans do they? I don't remember hearing people talk much about it. Much less about Turtles Forever, if you want to count that one.

- Not being nostalgia pandering enough: This show was basically Peter Laird's wet dream. We all know Mirage isn't mainstream at all. And I don't think PL himself expected this show to become as big as the FW series was. I remember some casuals knowing about this show back then and absolutely despising it because "THIS AREN'T THE TURTLES I REMEMBER". Allow me to make an analogy with video game consoles. FW was the NES and the Game Boy combined, Nick is the Wii and 2k3 was... the GameCube.

Also, there is a reason why Viacom seems to have put the 2k3 series on the shelf while FW is more promoted.

Ofc this doesn't mean it was a random obscure show. It definitely had a decent sized fanbase, otherwise it would not have gone for 7 seasons and over 100 episodes. But it was just another cartoon that was airing at the time among other popular cartoons such as Kim Possible, Avatar and whatever DC and Marvel cartoon adaptations were on at the time. Not to mention all the popular anime such as Naruto, Inu Yasha, Shaman King, etc, ofc.

So yeah, the show is just lost in the shuffle of not only cartoon history but also of its time period and isn't the first cartoon people think of when you mention "Cartoons from the previous decade".

oldmanwinters
11-01-2017, 10:17 AM
CBR ranks the 4Kids series #3 on their list of "15 Great Superhero Cartoons (that Nobody Remembers)":
https://www.cbr.com/forgotten-superhero-cartoons/?view=lista

CyberCubed
11-01-2017, 04:28 PM
The 2k3 series is critically acclaimed and shall never be forgotten!

THGhost
11-01-2017, 10:37 PM
The 2k3 series is critically acclaimed and shall never be forgotten!

It will always be with us... lurking... :tcouch:

sdp
11-02-2017, 10:59 PM
The show always was and always will be underappreciated.

It came out before nostalgia for TMNT was cool so there were no hipster writers trying to get cheap hits off of nostalgia.

It aired in a network that wasn't as watched and yet still got 7 seasons and over 100 episodes while other shows like X-Men Evolution were so much more well known yet not as good and only lasted 52 episodes.

Viacom bought the 2k3 show because it was a package deal with the licensing rights that 4Kids owned, if 4kids didn't have merch rights then likely viacom wouldn't have bought the show. If Viacom really wanted to own the show they would own the OT, they can afford it they just don't see value and since they haven't done anything with 2k3 that shows you they don't see value in it.


Fantastic show, it may have its flaws and weird decisions because of Laird but it was Laird's baby and because of it, we got this amazing show and we'll likely never get another TMNT show that is cared for by someone as much, isn't that sad?

CyberCubed
11-02-2017, 11:12 PM
The show always was and always will be underappreciated.

It really isn't, the ratings for the 2k3 series were roughly the same as the Nick cartoon for most of its run.

It came out before nostalgia for TMNT was cool so there were no hipster writers trying to get cheap hits off of nostalgia.

People were very nostalgic in 2003, I was 16 at the time as were you, sdp, you know this good and well. Back then people were begging for the return of Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady though. :lol:

It aired in a network that wasn't as watched and yet still got 7 seasons and over 100 episodes while other shows like X-Men Evolution were so much more well known yet not as good and only lasted 52 episodes.

156 episodes and a movie, one of the longest running American cartoons.

Viacom bought the 2k3 show because it was a package deal with the licensing rights that 4Kids owned, if 4kids didn't have merch rights then likely viacom wouldn't have bought the show. If Viacom really wanted to own the show they would own the OT, they can afford it they just don't see value and since they haven't done anything with 2k3 that shows you they don't see value in it.

They put the show on itunes at least, and used 2k3 characters in Nick and IDW like Bishop, etc.

Fantastic show, it may have its flaws and weird decisions because of Laird but it was Laird's baby and because of it, we got this amazing show and we'll likely never get another TMNT show that is cared for by someone as much, isn't that sad?

Well the show was great, but of course it wasn't perfect and Mike and Raph's 2k3 characters got flanderized at it progressed.

sdp
11-02-2017, 11:17 PM
It really isn't, the ratings for the 2k3 series were roughly the same as the Nick cartoon for most of its run.


Saturday Mornings were huge back then and kids don't watch much TV nowadays so Nick having the same ratings as 2k3 are not comparable. The show had decent ratings but it was blown away by Pokemon/Sonic X/Anime Flavor of the Month/etc most of the times, beating out Spider Riders is not something to write home about.



People were very nostalgic in 2003, I was 16 at the time as were you, sdp, you know this good and well. Back then people were begging for the return of Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady though. :lol:


Not as nostalgic as it is today. I mean us nerds have always been nostalgic but I'm talking about the "normies/casuals" who only got aboard nerd culture the last 7 years or so. Obviously anyone who posts here is not going to be one of them.

CyberCubed
11-02-2017, 11:20 PM
Also TMNT 2k3 used to rerun on Cartoon Network too. They aired reruns of Seasons 1-4 weekday afternoons, while new episodes still aired on Saturday mornings. The show also had a huge toyline, 6 videogame releases for PS2/Gamecube and GBA/DS, etc. Tons of merch.

Also I obviously meant us hardcore TMNT fans were nostalgic at the time as it'd been 7 years since the original toon ended. Plus back then we had no idea we'd ever get a new cartoon, I remember it being a huge shock at the time. We weren't expecting constant reboots like we have now.

Panda_Kahn_fan
11-03-2017, 10:00 PM
Despite the hate this series gets for being 'not the OT' from one side, and being 'Mirage-lite' from the other, this series was as dark as you could get with the TMNT on a kid's series. It the series Peter Laird would've tried to have made out of the OT if he's had his way, and feels a lot like the anime that was popular at the time this series came out. Ironic, as this show was darker and more graphic than the sanitized, edited versions of animes 4kids butchered and put on western TV at the time.

Wildcat
11-05-2017, 04:04 AM
I can not say it’s under appreciated when it lasted a long time, got 2 spin offs, a TV movie and full merchandise line. Which I would see kids getting. It was as successful as it could have been for a revival.

CyberCubed
11-05-2017, 11:55 AM
It still blows my mind the 2k3 series outlasted the Nick cartoon. I honestly expected it the other way around, when the Nick cartoon first started I thought it was going to outlast 2k3 and come close to the original cartoons episode or season count.

neatoman
11-05-2017, 01:11 PM
It still blows my mind the 2k3 series outlasted the Nick cartoon. I honestly expected it the other way around, when the Nick cartoon first started I thought it was going to outlast 2k3 and come close to the original cartoons episode or season count.

Did you have any reason for thinking it would?

CyberCubed
11-05-2017, 01:14 PM
The Nick show was highly successful and it was promoted on a mainstream channel like Nickelodeon. Given they're starting another new TMNT cartoon immediately after the first Nick show ended, it seemed like they wanted TMNT on the air for a long time.

I thought instead of doing a quick reboot they would just continue making new seasons of the current show for a few more years. If you stop to think about it doing a quick rebranding with whatever they 2018 show turns out to be wouldn't be much different than if the Nick show went on another few seasons.

I'm willing to bet when the 2018 show starts the ratings after maybe the first few episodes won't be much different than the Nick cartoon got. Some people will probably check out the first few episodes out of curiosity to see how the show is or how different it is from past series, and then just the fans will stick with it as usual.

sdp
11-05-2017, 06:04 PM
The 4Kids show lasted as long because of various reasons which included it being Laird's pet project, 4kids first (only?) original series, being in the b-tier network so most shows there weren't of huge quality to bump it, the toys figures selling well and the movie reviving interest in the series, Kids WB being bought out by 4Kids and now needing two channels worth of programming block.

I'm not trying to argue it wasn't a success but for the amount of content it got, it was more than more successful shows but it being under the radar of the mainstream and just being at the right place at the right time definitely helped it.

The Nick show began under performing and they quickly decided to replaced it, only because they really put their money behind the brand did it get 5 seasons, if not it would've ended before if say it was a licensed show and not a in house production

CyberCubed
11-05-2017, 06:17 PM
I think any Nick show not named Spongebob also generally doesn't last more than about 5 seasons anyway.

Considering their last big action shows like Avatar and Legend of Korra only have around 60 or so episodes each, TMNT got double that at 124 episodes.

Prowler
11-06-2017, 08:34 PM
Did you have any reason for thinking it would?
Because Viacom/Nick are larger than Foxbox/4Kids and the 2k12 show had a lot better marketing and was more well-known than the 2k3 series ever was. By the time the 2k3 series was over it seemed like TMNT was gonna go into dormant state again like it did after next mutation, but when 2k12 ended... there is already a new show coming in 2018. Also it got two live action movies while 2k3 only got a CGI movie no one really remembers.

neatoman
11-07-2017, 07:49 AM
Because Viacom/Nick are larger than Foxbox/4Kids and the 2k12 show had a lot better marketing and was more well-known than the 2k3 series ever was.

Not sure that's actually true, I know there are plenty of people who just dropped the Nick show midway through season 2 and weren't even aware it went on.

CyberCubed
11-07-2017, 12:37 PM
They probably just watched the eps online. At the time the 2k3 series was airing online streaming wasn't much a thing, youtube didn't even come out till 2005 and by that point the 2k3 series was airing Fast Forward already.

sdp
11-07-2017, 12:51 PM
Nick show might've lasted less than 2k3 and most of it's impact was only in the first few seasons but that was still more impact than 2k3 had over its entire run. You don't see many people getting nostalgic for 2k3 even though it's basically 15 years old but you will for the Nick show even if it's from a bunch of tumblr fans.


I mean, I wish it were different, because then we could have some 2k3 inspired merchandise or figures but I just don't think there's enough of a market there sadly.

CyberCubed
11-07-2017, 12:54 PM
What 2k3 did do is make Mirage-only characters mainstream for the first time. Nowadays it's easy to forget this was the cartoon debut of Karai, the first proper showcasing of the Triceratons, Fugitoid, Renet and Savanti romero all got their cartoon debuts.

We got a more accurate version of Usagi Yojimbo, the debut of the Utroms and not just Krang, the first black Baxter Stockman in cartoons as he should be, the debut of the Shredder clones, human Foot Soldiers for an entire series, Splinter in his Mirage origin, etc.

The 2k3 series made a lot of Mirage-only concepts mainstream. Likewise new characters like Bishop and Hun became TMNT staples, as they're also in the current IDW comics.

Sumac
11-07-2017, 02:19 PM
What 2k3 did do is make Mirage-only characters mainstream for the first time. Nowadays it's easy to forget this was the cartoon debut of Karai, the first proper showcasing of the Triceratons, Fugitoid, Renet and Savanti romero all got their cartoon debuts.

We got a more accurate version of Usagi Yojimbo, the debut of the Utroms and not just Krang, the first black Baxter Stockman in cartoons as he should be, the debut of the Shredder clones, human Foot Soldiers for an entire series, Splinter in his Mirage origin, etc.

The 2k3 series made a lot of Mirage-only concepts mainstream. Likewise new characters like Bishop and Hun became TMNT staples, as they're also in the current IDW comics.
And just like the original comic books, it was largely forgotten and ignored in favor of more lighthearted version.

As someone who considers 2k3 series to be the best incarnation of TMNT (as far as TV series go) it's really sad. But, well, maybe one day we will have a resurgence of its popularity. Or not.

CyberCubed
11-07-2017, 03:03 PM
It's not really forgotten, the 2k3 series is all up on youtube with millions of viewers per episode. Funny how Nick doesn't take those eps down even though its copyright infringement.

Prowler
11-08-2017, 10:50 AM
Nick show might've lasted less than 2k3 and most of it's impact was only in the first few seasons but that was still more impact than 2k3 had over its entire run. You don't see many people getting nostalgic for 2k3 even though it's basically 15 years old but you will for the Nick show even if it's from a bunch of tumblr fans.


I mean, I wish it were different, because then we could have some 2k3 inspired merchandise or figures but I just don't think there's enough of a market there sadly.

Yeah the Nick series felt like it was trying to reignite Turtlemania from 1988-1992. While 2k3 was trying to be as different from the FW series as possible. It was Laird's pet project and I don't think he expected it to come close to the FW series in its prime in terms of popularity. 2k3 was just another cartoon at the time it aired.

Dunno if this is a good analogy, but the 2k3 series was the Nintendo GameCube. The GC was sorta like Nintendo's wet dream or something. Something they made mostly for Nintendo gamers and such. It wasn't trying to topple the PS2 in sales. While the Nick series was the Wii. Notice how the Wii also sold like hot cakes in the first couple of years and then lots of people regretted or let it collecting dust? Similar to the Nick series being very popular in the first two seasons and then dropping in popularity.

shuriken
11-09-2017, 12:16 PM
Dunno if this is a good analogy, but the 2k3 series was the Nintendo GameCube. The GC was sorta like Nintendo's wet dream or something. Something they made mostly for Nintendo gamers and such. It wasn't trying to topple the PS2 in sales. While the Nick series was the Wii. Notice how the Wii also sold like hot cakes in the first couple of years and then lots of people regretted or let it collecting dust? Similar to the Nick series being very popular in the first two seasons and then dropping in popularity.

I mean I was always busy Sunday so I would watch the TMNT 2012 show on Xfinity on DEmand. Of course they stopped doing that after season 3, so I didn't catch ANY of season 4 or 5 which is a damn shame. gonna have to get me the season sets when I can.

newfan
11-12-2017, 02:25 AM
I've started exploring both old toons, I've only watched a few eps of this series so far but it was easy to get in to. Might watch a few more later today.

Zachatello00
11-13-2017, 04:24 PM
This series remains my favorite of the three. It’s hard to replicate the success of the original, though NICK has done a good job getting closer to it than the 2k3 series did.

I appreciate though, that Laird and the team stuck closely to their original vision rather than just making it a re-issue of the original, largely humorous cartoon. They remained committed to telling the turtle’s stories, and I appreciate that.

Personally, I see this as the “Batman: The Animated Series” version of TMNT.

Bravotello
12-01-2017, 04:52 AM
Hell yeah it is underrated! God I miss this show so much but it seems like no one really remembers it anymore! There's only like 5 people on Tumblr who even still talk about or post about it last I checked.

Sometimes I wonder if it's on purpose though? I'm unsure of the validity but I've heard Nick goes out of its way not to acknowledge its existence in any way. I hope it's not true because that would be terrible of them tbh and such a waste. This was a great show!

CyberCubed
12-01-2017, 09:42 AM
Sometimes I wonder if it's on purpose though? I'm unsure of the validity but I've heard Nick goes out of its way not to acknowledge its existence in any way. I hope it's not true because that would be terrible of them tbh and such a waste. This was a great show!

I don't know where you got that from, the show has been uploaded on itunes, 2k3 characters have returned in various series, etc. There's just not any new merch based on it or proper DVD releases.

Powder
12-01-2017, 03:38 PM
Those who liked it remember it, but it wasn't a big deal for casuals. Didn't have nearly the same public image as its predecessor. Quite the contrary re: Nick's acknowledgement of the series, they post screen caps of it on IG & FB often enough.

Prowler
12-02-2017, 01:54 AM
It's not really forgotten, the 2k3 series is all up on youtube with millions of viewers per episode. Funny how Nick doesn't take those eps down even though its copyright infringement.
That is indeed perplexing, since Viacom and YouTube have some legal dispute history between each other.

Those who liked it remember it, but it wasn't a big deal for casuals.

It was one of those tv shows that was somewhat well-known when it was airing, mainly in its first 2-3 seasons, but has been forgotten since then. Nick's being more successful than it also didn't help keep the general audience's memories of it fresh either.

I've met tons of people who have no idea there was a 2k3 TMNT cartoon... tbh I've also met some who didn't know of the Nick series, but they were people in their 20s who don't pay attention to morning cartoons anymore so that might be it. I mean, if you asked me what the latest batman and Spider_Man cartoons were I wouldn't know either, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're irrelevant. I just don't pay attention to them.

Bravotello
12-02-2017, 05:04 AM
Huh that's nice! As for where I heard it, it was on a Tumblr blog so it's not the best source honestly? I can still show you guys if you want, though! I'm happy to know that, though!

I still wonder why it doesn't get more attention. It has all the marks of one of those "Nostalgic shows that still are amazing" sort of show. I've seen older ones then that still fawned over. Hmm maybe because it's from 4kids and 4kids has a bad rap? Ruining anime and the like? One would think the fact that the whole thing is on Youtube would only make it more popular though, right? I mean anyone can run into it pretty easily.

Powder
12-02-2017, 11:10 AM
It's hit or miss for Mirage fans 'cause it kinda butchers the source material & becomes very toyetic, whereas for OT fans it doesn't have any of the wacky mutants or meta humor. + when it came out, many of the first wave fans were of an age to either feel too old for it or had a nostalgia bias. So for a lot of people it didn't quite hit the mark. It seems like the new turtle fans, younger kids/teens who came on the boat with the Nick series, are more receptive to it, which is nice.

Prowler
12-02-2017, 11:55 AM
It's hit or miss for Mirage fans 'cause it kinda butchers the source material & becomes very toyetic, whereas for OT fans it doesn't have any of the wacky mutants or meta humor. + when it came out, many of the first wave fans were of an age to either feel too old for it or had a nostalgia bias. So for a lot of people it didn't quite hit the mark. It seems like the new turtle fans, younger kids/teens who came on the boat with the Nick series, are more receptive to it, which is nice.
My brother is from the FW series and the peak of Turtlemania generation. he couldn't get into the 2k3 show because it was too different from the Turtles he grew up with and also because "why don't they have pupils, are they blind or something?" :tlol:

Tbh the 2k3 series was a bit risky. It wasn't a remake but a quite different version from the Turtles that were popular and well known to the general audience. It's like it wanted to appeal to both the kids of the time and to some of the more hardcore TMNT fans(people aware of Mirage, etc).

I was surprised the cartoon lasted so long. I expected season 2 or 3 to be the final seasons when they were announced.

CyberCubed
12-02-2017, 12:28 PM
I was only 16 when the 2k3 series started, so the series felt like it was aimed at me. A teenager who wanted a dark cartoon and had grown up from the original cartoon era. I loved it as it felt like the "Batman: TAS" of TMNT cartoons, and of course being a huge TMNT fan in general I was beyond shocked and excited Turtles had come back with a new cartoon in general because nobody expected it.

They did well mixing new concepts with old, and came up with a lot of new ideas. Some of the fillers could be "dull" but I guess no worse than the fillers/throwaway eps in the original cartoon or Nick show, so it doesn't matter. I also really liked how they constantly built up all the villains and things really take off in Seasons 3 and 4 especially.

I also like both Season 5 and Fast Forward almost equally. I wish the animation didn't change in the last two seasons, but I enjoyed them for different reasons. The final season BTTS is the weakest one, but even then there's still around 7 episodes of it I really like.

Prowler
12-02-2017, 01:25 PM
I was only 16 when the 2k3 series started, so the series felt like it was aimed at me. A teenager who wanted a dark cartoon and had grown up from the original cartoon era. I loved it as it felt like the "Batman: TAS" of TMNT cartoons, and of course being a huge TMNT fan in general I was beyond shocked and excited Turtles had come back with a new cartoon in general because nobody expected it.

They did well mixing new concepts with old, and came up with a lot of new ideas. Some of the fillers could be "dull" but I guess no worse than the fillers/throwaway eps in the original cartoon or Nick show, so it doesn't matter. I also really liked how they constantly built up all the villains and things really take off in Seasons 3 and 4 especially.

I also like both Season 5 and Fast Forward almost equally. I wish the animation didn't change in the last two seasons, but I enjoyed them for different reasons. The final season BTTS is the weakest one, but even then there's still around 7 episodes of it I really like.
I was 12-13 the first time I watched the 2k3 series. By then I was already sorta outgrowing the FW series and disappointed at its lack of action after its early episodes, so I felt like the 2k3 series was a sign of the Turtles growing with me.... sure it was still a kids' show and all, but it definitely felt more suited for my age bracket at the time than the FW series did at that point.

Bravotello
12-02-2017, 03:12 PM
I started watching 2003 later on when the lost episode thing started. Though I got the DVDs of the first season at a blockbuster when I was about 8? Maybe 7? Loved it a lot!

ABrown
12-02-2017, 05:01 PM
I was only 16 when the 2k3 series started, so the series felt like it was aimed at me. A teenager who wanted a dark cartoon and had grown up from the original cartoon era. I loved it as it felt like the "Batman: TAS" of TMNT cartoons, and of course being a huge TMNT fan in general I was beyond shocked and excited Turtles had come back with a new cartoon in general because nobody expected it.

Unfortunately, while the 4Kids series was probably the TMNT cartoon most similar to Batman: The Animated Series, (popularity wise) the original TMNT cartoon is the one that society will pair with Batman: TAS.

CyberCubed
12-02-2017, 07:31 PM
Unfortunately, while the 4Kids series was probably the TMNT cartoon most similar to Batman: The Animated Series, (popularity wise) the original TMNT cartoon is the one that society will pair with Batman: TAS.

While the original toon is the most well known, it's like how Adam West Batman was incredibly popular.

B:TAS is the most popular Batman incarnation, but in terms of tone 2k3 is most similar.

Nick TMNT is similar to 2003 Teen Titans or more modern superhero cartoons that aren't too serious but not completely silly either.

neatoman
12-03-2017, 05:21 AM
Nick TMNT is similar to 2003 Teen Titans

It's destined to have a low budget parody of it end up far more successful?

ABrown
12-03-2017, 09:55 AM
Nick TMNT is similar to 2003 Teen Titans or more modern superhero cartoons that aren't too serious but not completely silly either.

Nick's TMNT series really was very similar to the original Teen Titans cartoon. Except that Teen Titans did it much better.

CyberCubed
12-03-2017, 12:17 PM
Nick's TMNT series really was very similar to the original Teen Titans cartoon. Except that Teen Titans did it much better.

It's almost exactly the same in humor and tone, because Ciro Nieli handled both. Slade and Shredder are handled similarly, and the Teen Titans and Turtles both had similar comedic/crazy episodes, but also very serious and action driven episodes.

The only difference is Teen Titans was only 65 episodes while Nick TMNT was 124, so obviously TMNT had a lot more extra time for fillers and adventures.

Redeemer
12-03-2017, 12:23 PM
Nick's TMNT series really was very similar to the original Teen Titans cartoon. Except that Teen Titans did it much better.

I don't know about that. The problem is Teen Titans had very High Highs and Very Low Lowes. Basically when Teen Titans are good they very good and their bad is extremely bad......
TMNT felt more even keeled.

BartAllen
12-08-2017, 03:06 PM
The show is definitely underappreciated. I'm currently making my way through the show for the third time. Beside the original Mirage comics, this is the only show I can sit through from beginning to end. Even the less than stellar stuff that came during the later seasons is enjoyable.

I even like the turtles forever movie (Was that special as divisive on this board?).

CyberCubed
12-08-2017, 03:22 PM
I even like the turtles forever movie (Was that special as divisive on this board?).

No, Turtles Forever is quite liked, most peoples problems with it is they treat the original Turtles too goofy, but other than that it was an excellent finale to the 2k3 series.

I'd also give the Nick show another chance now that it's over. The humor and character interaction is superb, and the fight scenes are often just as good or better than this series.

Andrew NDB
12-08-2017, 03:27 PM
Do I feel 2K3 is under-appreciated? No.

Do I feel 2K3 is under-appreciated, compared to the other TMNT cartoons? Yes, absolutely. I'm sure to much/all of TPTB at Nick it's "the one without Bebop and Rocksteady," so automatically not worth remembering.

newfan
12-08-2017, 03:37 PM
I suppose with the 80s being the first and as big as it was at the time it will always be most known (but favourite to some regardless of that)
The 2012 has been more focused on because it was the current/new show and where Nick first came in, it no-longer is so that will change with the new show.

Was 2k3 popular and given attention at it's time? It did run for 7 seasons so I assume it was, no?


So, just a question squeezed in here, was Turtles Forever the finale as in the last eps or was a special done afterwards?

CyberCubed
12-08-2017, 03:38 PM
So, just a question squeezed in here, was Turtles Forever the finale as in the last eps or was a special done afterwards?

Turtles Forever came out in 2009, right after the end of the final season. Turtles Forever was written as the true series finale of it.

dragonside
12-16-2017, 09:33 AM
I have always felt that TMNT 2003 was always the middle child (becoming true when the Nick toon came out). Therefore, definitely underrated.


Its got roots in everything. I see it as kind of the Ultimate TMNT (kind of like Ultimate Marvel). The best amalgamation of all previous concepts.

It ran for quite a few seasons and the animation through out was well done.

2003 is PL's vision of TMNT animated.

Cough, for me, this is the closest to source material adaptation of the comics.


If anything, I got a sense that there are at least few people that would want the FW cartoon to "continue". While for the 2k3 cartoon, most people were satisfied that we got.. Turtles Forever & the wedding of Casey and April.

CyberCubed
12-16-2017, 03:01 PM
TMNT 2k3 isn't the middle child, and it can't be now that there's a 2018 show as well. By this logic the Nick cartoon is also in the "middle child" now.

FredWolfLeonardo
12-16-2017, 03:19 PM
TMNT 2k3 isn't the middle child, and it can't be now that there's a 2018 show as well. By this logic the Nick cartoon is also in the "middle child" now.

With Next Mutation being one of the tmnt shows, its still the middle child until the show after Rise comes.

CyberCubed
12-16-2017, 05:03 PM
The problem with saying something is the "middle child" is assuming everyone started off with the original cartoon, which of course is not the case. Plenty of younger fans watched the 2k3 or Nick shows first.

It's the same thing with Pokemon. For some bizarre reason people assume online everyone began with Gen 1 and Kanto, even though Pokemon has now been going on 20+ years and millions of kids grew up with any of the other gens as their first games/anime seasons instead. Plenty of young teens or 20 year olds I see online today say they started with Hoenn or Sinnoh as their first gens, etc. Yet despite millions of kids getting into pokemon long after the early 2000's, it's wrongly assumed that "everyone started with Gen 1."

I see TMNT has a similar problem, especially with nostalgic older fans who have no concept of it being an evergreen property that attracts new fans every time a new show starts. A lot of the kids/teens who grew up with the Nick cartoon stayed on tumblr or other social media accounts and didn't come here, which is why we didn't get an influx of new users.

neatoman
12-16-2017, 05:06 PM
With Next Mutation being one of the tmnt shows, its still the middle child until the show after Rise comes.

Nobody cares about the Next Mutation.

FredWolfLeonardo
12-16-2017, 05:10 PM
Nobody cares about the Next Mutation.

That is completely irrelevant and doesn't change that 2k3 is still the middle out of all the known tmnt shows.

1987 > Next Mutation > 2k3 > Nick > Rise

sdp
12-16-2017, 05:11 PM
Because of re-runs, VHS or DVDs and the popularity of the OT and Pokemon Season 1, you'd actually be surprised by how many younger generations who saw the show even though it wasn't "their" generation.

You would think people my age would've been the last people who were part of the OT generation, but many people years later still grew up with the OT, people who were born after turtle mania had died and replaced by Power Rangers.

Same with Pokemon, I used to work for The Pokemon Company International and kids who had not even been born when Gen II was released knew season 1's theme song, characters and episodes.

FredWolfLeonardo
12-16-2017, 05:25 PM
Because of re-runs, VHS or DVDs and the popularity of the OT and Pokemon Season 1, you'd actually be surprised by how many younger generations who saw the show even though it wasn't "their" generation.

You would think people my age would've been the last people who were part of the OT generation, but many people years later still grew up with the OT, people who were born after turtle mania had died and replaced by Power Rangers.

Very, very true. Another example is the english dub of DragonBall Z, which I remember was having re-runs in the mid/late 2000s and a whole new generation of kids were getting into the franchise.

Same with Pokemon, I used to work for The Pokemon Company International and kids who had not even been born when Gen II was released knew season 1's theme song, characters and episodes.

Probably not the best thread to ask this question, but what was it like to work for the Pokemon company? Just intensely curious, since I'm a huge Pokemon fan.

CyberCubed
12-16-2017, 06:51 PM
The people who run the english localization of pokemon at TCPI have nothing to do with the anime or games in Japan. They just translate everything into english and produce it in the west.

Nintendo/Gamefreak develop the main games, and OLM partnered with TVTokyo write the anime. You basically have to be Japanese and live in Japan to have anything to do with Pokemon officially where it's made in-house, and not just a dubber in other languages.

sdp
12-16-2017, 07:19 PM
Probably not the best thread to ask this question, but what was it like to work for the Pokemon company? Just intensely curious, since I'm a huge Pokemon fan.

I ran events for TPCi back then Pokemon USA Inc. for the TCG, it was awesome, I would get sent all these cool stuff for the events to give away and some for me to keep as well, I got payed basically for doing fun stuff with the TCG and its events. I technically still do stuff for them but I only work the big international event once a year, usually in June.

CyberCubed
12-17-2017, 01:17 AM
TMNT 2k3 will never be forgotten, not as long as I am around. I will shout it from the rooftops if I have to. Educate all future TMNT fans who weren't even born when the series was originally airing.

Thank god for the internet. Thank god all 156 episodes and Turtles Forever are uploaded on youtube. Until we get some new DVD releases if it ever happens, at least people can watch it there.

I actually just finished my marathon of the show too. Began Nov.. 6th and finished today. I rewatched all 156 episodes + Turtles Forever + the short specials in the span of a month and a half. :lol:

FredWolfLeonardo
12-17-2017, 01:20 AM
TMNT 2k3 will never be forgotten, not as long as I am around. I will shout it from the rooftops if I have to. Educate all future TMNT fans who weren't even born when the series was originally airing.

A scary yet somewhat comforting thought.