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View Full Version : Am I the only one who thinks 2k3 started to decline a bit after "Secret Origins"?


Spike Spiegel
04-25-2016, 11:49 PM
I watched this show religiously until Ch'rell returned for "City at War." Watching the Battle Nexus week by week is also an experience I fondly remember from my childhood/adolescence.

However, I think the idea of Ch'rell surviving the explosion of the TCRI building after his true form was revealed seemed like a bit of a cheat. I began to feel that the Turtles could never really beat him, which disappointed me because "Secret Origins" felt like the culmination of the entire storyarc up to that point. It had Shredder's origin, Stockman's attempts at revenge, and Splinter joining the fight.

Anything after that felt...gimmicky to me. Like there was never any real sense of danger. I really liked certain eps like "Insane in the Membrane" and "Same as it Never Was," but the Turtles never really beat their greatest enemy until
"Turtles Forever" and after the reveal, he just seemed less scary each time he showed up again. It seems like it'd be fairly easy for Don to analyze the suit, hack it, and sabotage it or something.

On top of this, Michelangelo and Casey seemed to regress in their character development after season 2.

Am I the only one who feels this way or am I being overly critical?

CyberCubed
04-26-2016, 12:13 AM
Not at all. Seasons 3 and 4 were the best seasons of the 2k3 series. I also enjoyed Seasons 5-6 for what they were too.

The only real decline was the final season, BTTS, but I was at least happy they made one last season in the present after they got back home.

ABrown
04-26-2016, 07:46 AM
Do I think that the show started to decline after Secret Origins? SHELL NO. I think the show was reaching its peak. I think that seasons three through five were when the show was at its best. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think that the Nick series started to decline after its second season. We all have our likes and dislikes.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-26-2016, 08:18 AM
Not at all. Seasons 3 and 4 were the best seasons of the 2k3 series.

For once, Cubed speaks for me.

turtlefanforever
04-26-2016, 11:18 AM
i don't think so. Season 5 is my favorite and the best in my opinion and a lot of people say thats where it started getting "bad" so to each their own. BTTS was clearly the "worst" season as is the last season of nearly every show but it wasnt bad. the only decline was in animation in Fast Forward and BTTS.

CyberCubed
04-26-2016, 11:31 AM
Season 1 = Great
Season 2 = Good, but too many fillers
Season 3 = Excellent
Season 4 = Excellent
Season 5 = Good
Season 6 = Average to below average depending on the ep
Season 7 = About 3-4 good eps, the rest meh.

Andrew NDB
04-26-2016, 11:50 AM
My interest declined almost immediately.

ABrown
04-26-2016, 11:54 AM
Season 2 = Good, but too many fillers

There's really only two episodes that I would call "fillers": "Reflections" and "The Golden Puck". All of the other episodes are stories that are continuations of previous episodes, stories that would be revisited in future episodes, or stories that were a part of the overall story arc.

CyberCubed
04-26-2016, 12:18 PM
There's really only two episodes that I would call "fillers": "Reflections" and "The Golden Puck". All of the other episodes are stories that are continuations of previous episodes, stories that would be revisited in future episodes, or stories that were a part of the overall story arc.

Junklantis is one of the worst episodes of the entire series, doesn't matter an old character returned.

ABrown
04-26-2016, 12:32 PM
Junklantis is one of the worst episodes of the entire series, doesn't matter an old character returned.

Oh I'll absolutely agree that it's not a very good episode (by the standards that the series set for itself). However, it's not technically a filler episode.

Prowler
04-26-2016, 01:51 PM
I can't say that I agree with you. The show began to jump the shark at season 5. That was when it began losing quality. The first 4 seasons were all pretty good.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-26-2016, 01:58 PM
I can't say that I agree with you. The show began to jump the shark at season 5. That was when it began losing quality. The first 4 seasons were all pretty good.

My exact view on 4Kids TMNT. The first four seasons are gold, the fifth season is a wild departure in a desperate attempt to boost toy sales, and the sixth and seventh seasons are even worse.

Prowler
04-26-2016, 04:11 PM
My exact view on 4Kids TMNT. The first four seasons are gold, the fifth season is a wild departure in a desperate attempt to boost toy sales, and the sixth and seventh seasons are even worse.
The 5th season had a good concept but wasn't so fond of its execution. It felt pretty anime-esque. Now I like anime and all, but that's not something I expect to see in a non-japanese cartoon.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-26-2016, 06:48 PM
The 5th season had a good concept but wasn't so fond of its execution. It felt pretty anime-esque. Now I like anime and all, but that's not something I expect to see in a non-japanese cartoon.

Agreed. I think two things would have fixed it:

#1. Spread it out over a full 26-episode season to reduce the jarring now-we're-anime transition.
#2. Ditch the Turtles transforming into giant dragons in the climatic battle.

CyberCubed
04-26-2016, 07:37 PM
I don't see any problem with the Turtles turning into dragons at all. That whole season was mystical theme, and the fights with the Demon Shredder would have just been a carbon copy of the Ch'rell Shredder fights if they just fought him with martial arts.

ABrown
04-26-2016, 08:39 PM
Since the dragon thing was just for the one season's story arc, I was ok with it. It's not the greatest thing that they ever did on the show, but I think they made it work with the story.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-26-2016, 09:06 PM
I don't see any problem with the Turtles turning into dragons at all. That whole season was mystical theme, and the fights with the Demon Shredder would have just been a carbon copy of the Ch'rell Shredder fights if they just fought him with martial arts.

Fighting the Shredder with martial arts is kinda the way to fight him.

Mirage #1, #10, "Return to New York", the Worm/Shark Shredder (ugh), all of Fred Wolf, Nick, 4Kids Seasons 1-3 plus Lady Shredder, the movies (excepting 2014, naturally)...

So yeah, the only time the Turtles fight Shredder WITHOUT martial arts is Archie (doesn't the witch with the Turnstone defeat him?) and Giant Fvcking Spirit Dragons. :trazz:

CyberCubed
04-26-2016, 09:30 PM
But we already had countless Shredder fights in the show up to that point. Unlike Mirage, the 4kids Turtles fought him a number of times. Have you forgotten how often the Turtles fought Ch'rell from Seasons 1-3?

Making Demon Shredder a carbon copy of Ch'rell...what would be the point? The whole mystical theme made him unique and made the action sequences difference.

Cryomancer
04-26-2016, 11:41 PM
I definitely got tired of there always being another Shredder to defeat, at least.

Wesley
04-27-2016, 09:28 AM
I think so. Seasons 2, 3 and 4 were great, but I thought Shredder didn't seem as threatening after his origin was revealed (he was terrifying in season one when I didn't know much about him). Season one was also more grounded than the later seasons. I would have preferred if there had just been one Shredder.

ABrown
04-27-2016, 09:53 AM
I was fine with the demon Shredder, but I think the Cyber Shredder took it a little too far.

CyberCubed
04-27-2016, 10:32 AM
I think this thread is heading toward a discussion where it should be locked. Silenced.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-27-2016, 10:41 AM
i think this thread is heading toward a discussion where it should be locked. Silenced.

Oh really?

YOU CAN'T SILENCE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!

CyberCubed
04-27-2016, 11:07 AM
I don't know why there's so many negative threads about all the cartoons lately. I want them all silenced.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
04-27-2016, 11:11 AM
I don't know why there's so many negative threads about all the cartoons lately. I want them all silenced.

Change your username NOW.

CyberDictator. :tlol:

Krutch
04-27-2016, 11:23 AM
My interest declined almost immediately.Curious... Outside of Mirage, are there any versions of TMNT you like?

shuriken
04-27-2016, 09:20 PM
Curious... Outside of Mirage, are there any versions of TMNT you like?

The Image comics I guess?

And no. Secret Origins wasn't even close to the high point of the series. I'd say season 4 is probably my favorite, we had finally moved past Ch'rell and they all went through some growing pains (except maybe Casey, and on occasion Mikey). Although Karai was sooo inconsistent it kinda hurt sometimes.
Season 5 was decent, but why switch to magic amulets only to abandon them afterwards? Why bring in more characters just to kill em off? then fake you out. I really liked the first episode of season 5 and then after, not so much. Season 6 and 7 were mediocre at best and unnecessary steps backward at worst.
3 was neat for introducing Bishop, Triceraton invasion, and finally ending the arc with Ch'rell (until he's finally offed in Turtles Forever).
Seasons 1-4 built upon the universe a strong foundation and developed the characters further, learning and adapting to face their growing rogues gallery.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-28-2016, 04:36 PM
Fighting the Shredder with martial arts is kinda the way to fight him.

Mirage #1, #10, "Return to New York", the Worm/Shark Shredder (ugh), all of Fred Wolf, Nick, 4Kids Seasons 1-3 plus Lady Shredder, the movies (excepting 2014, naturally)...

So yeah, the only time the Turtles fight Shredder WITHOUT martial arts is Archie (doesn't the witch with the Turnstone defeat him?) and Giant Fvcking Spirit Dragons. :trazz:

The turtles didn't really fight Shredder directly on Hirobyl. Cherubae just teleported him back to Earth using the Turnstone.

Technogeek29
04-29-2016, 03:25 AM
Not really Seasons 3 & 4 are often the most talked about when it comes to fans of the series followed by season 1 then 2. 5 is 6 are very much either you like it or hate it, with 7 being the lowest IMO.

I did like that Ch'rell as time went on became less and less interested in what the Turtles were doing. Season 1 they were a means to an end Season 2 he wanted revenge being the only season he makes a extreme effort to eliminate them. By season 3 he was more concerned with leaving to space and the Turtles were an after thought that he would try to kill if the need arise.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-29-2016, 04:25 AM
Not really Seasons 3 & 4 are often the most talked about when it comes to fans of the series followed by season 1 then 2. 5 is 6 are very much either you like it or hate it, with 7 being the lowest IMO.

I did like that Ch'rell as time went on became less and less interested in what the Turtles were doing. Season 1 they were a means to an end Season 2 he wanted revenge being the only season he makes a extreme effort to eliminate them. By season 3 he was more concerned with leaving to space and the Turtles were an after thought that he would try to kill if the need arise.

I think most fans in general like seasons 1-4. It's after that opinsions split.

Sumac
04-29-2016, 07:34 AM
To answer OP's question, no.
If anything, it was beginning of the season 2, when the show started to get into full swing. First season was a bit uneven, as if struggling to establish its own identity and pacing, but starting with the season 2, TMNT2K3 has finally overcome those problems.

Also:
My interest declined almost immediately.
:lol:

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-29-2016, 10:59 AM
To answer OP's question, no.
If anything, it was beginning of the season 2, when the show started to get into full swing. First season was a bit uneven, as if struggling to establish its own identity and pacing, but starting with the season 2, TMNT2K3 has finally overcome those problems.

Also:

:lol:

I think season 1 is still OK and gets more and more tension at the end.

Sumac
04-29-2016, 02:28 PM
I didn't said that it was bad, just it had some problems, rectified in later seasons.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-29-2016, 03:36 PM
I didn't said that it was bad, just it had some problems, rectified in later seasons.

I actually season 1 reflects this series being darker. I mean, the turtles end up separated from Splinter when the mousers attack already from start.

Chopperface
05-02-2016, 12:47 PM
Nah. I think the show was only just getting even better by that point. I think the show reached its' peak with Exodus, but that's no shot at Seasons 4-5.