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View Full Version : Marvel's Shock Captain America Twist


ZariusTwo
05-24-2016, 12:24 PM
Spoilers for this week's issue. Bleeding Cool previously said ths would be more shocking than the Rebirth twist.

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135410-exxxclusive-bad-guys-the-outhousers-will-spoil-captain-america-steve-rogers-1.html

Steve Rogers: Agent of HYDRA since childhood

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-24-2016, 12:27 PM
Spoilers for this week's issue. Bleeding Cool previously said ths would be more shocking than the Rebirth twist.

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135410-exxxclusive-bad-guys-the-outhousers-will-spoil-captain-america-steve-rogers-1.html

Steve Rogers: Agent of HYDRA since childhood

Huh. Fascinating.

TurtleTitan97
05-24-2016, 12:30 PM
http://i.imgur.com/TnQRX6v.gif

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 12:37 PM
Makes sense.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-24-2016, 12:38 PM
Makes sense.

How so? Care to elaborate?

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 12:45 PM
Sure.
Given the popularity of the movie universe, where SHIELD was always a hotbed of Hydra activity, it makes sense that if they're going to integrate those changes into their world more fully...that Cap would be in on it.

oldmanwinters
05-24-2016, 12:49 PM
Sure.
Given the popularity of the movie universe, where SHIELD was always a hotbed of Hydra activity, it makes sense that if they're going to integrate those changes into their world more fully...that Cap would be in on it.


Just because something is trendy doesn't mean it's a good idea!

Next thing you know... Peter Parker was in cahoots with Uncle Ben's killer due to some childish resentment of not knowing his true father. Thus, his guilt over Ben's death is due to the fact he truly was responsible.

I think the second season of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes gave us the best "What if Captain America was an evil double agent?" twist possible. And after that, probably Marvel What-If? Vol. 2, #28-29.

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 12:51 PM
I'm not defending the spoiler, I'm merely saying that I don't think it's as "out of left field" as others seem to believe it to be.

I don't have a horse in this race as I've never read a Cap book, nor am I likely to do so in the future.

snake
05-24-2016, 12:55 PM
I'm not defending the spoiler, I'm merely saying that I don't think it's as "out of left field" as others seem to believe it to be.

I don't have a horse in this race as I've never read a Cap book, nor am I likely to do so in the future.

So you won't offer your opinion simply because Marvel does other stupid sh*t and you don't read cap books?

Gee, by that logic I can't offer my opinion on anything I haven't expierienced, watched, or read not because it's sh*t or looks like sh*t, but because I haven't consumed or experienced it yet?

That sounds a lot like the new Ghostbusters defenders.

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 01:05 PM
That's not what I said at all, try again.
Maybe realign your ax on the grindstone.

ZariusTwo
05-24-2016, 01:16 PM
I have read some interesting defences of the twist over on 4Chan's /co/ board, though it's become a /pol/-level hodgepodge there as a result.

I mean, at least they're not calling this Superior Captain America just yet.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-24-2016, 01:19 PM
Sure.
Given the popularity of the movie universe, where SHIELD was always a hotbed of Hydra activity, it makes sense that if they're going to integrate those changes into their world more fully...that Cap would be in on it.


Okay, you're speaking from Marvel's point of view, aka the business side of things. On that I agree with you completely.

I thought you were speaking to the character. I'll be interested to see how they play this out, but it's quite an intriguing premise...

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 01:21 PM
I'm sure if given enough time I could come up with a fairly convincing fanwank about how this would be entirely in-character for Cap, but again...no horse in this race.

But from a Getting Books Off The Shelves point of view, yeah...merging more elements from different parts of their universe, especially portions of it that cater to a newer fanbase, is a decent idea.

snake
05-24-2016, 01:22 PM
That's not what I said at all, try again.
Maybe realign your ax on the grindstone.

You literally said you won't offer your opinion because you've never read cap. Yet you say you aren't defending it? You're always so vague it's hard to tell what you're implying without trying a couple times.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-24-2016, 01:24 PM
You literally said you won't offer your opinion because you've never read cap. Yet you say you aren't defending it? You're always so vague it's hard to tell what you're implying without trying a couple times.

Loving the new sig. :tlol:

TheSkeletonMan939
05-24-2016, 01:25 PM
I don't read comics anymore, and stuff like this is part of why.

I get that both Marvel and DC have to introduce big twists every now and then to pull in readers, but honestly I can't imagine it ever working. I feel like longtime readers would only be pissed off, and any potential newcomers would just be confused.

Can't they try to draw in new readers by, like, making a cool cover and having some solid writing?

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 01:27 PM
I literally said nothing of the sort.
Your flamewar is in another castle.

I don't read comics anymore, and stuff like this is part of why.

I get that both Marvel and DC have to introduce big twists every now and then to pull in readers, but honestly I can't imagine it ever working. I feel like longtime readers would only be pissed off, and any potential newcomers would just be confused.

Can't they try to draw in new readers by, like, making a cool cover and having some solid writing?

Because solid writing is a long game which requires the bigwigs to take a gamble they could lose.
People want flash, bang, and boom. Or...so the bigwigs keep insisting.

TurtleTitan97
05-24-2016, 01:28 PM
Can't they try to draw in new readers by, like, making a cool cover and having some solid writing?

I wish. I miss the days when comics use to do stuff like that.

snake
05-24-2016, 01:28 PM
I'm sure if given enough time I could come up with a fairly convincing fanwank about how this would be entirely in-character for Cap, but again...no horse in this race.

But from a Getting Books Off The Shelves point of view, yeah...merging more elements from different parts of their universe, especially portions of it that cater to a newer fanbase, is a decent idea.

A decent idea from a book selling and casual catering perspective. It's the same stupid sh*t every year from Marvel. Nothing matters or even has long lasting effects but while the twist is still active it's f*cking everywhere. Remember Siege? Remember the skrull sh*t? Red Hulk? Superior Spider-Man? An event every year promising some sort of shock?

If you aren't running marvel or profitting off them, I have no idea how this is a good idea just based off face value. I'm gonna check this book out tommorow, but I'm sure as hell not paying for it.

snake
05-24-2016, 01:30 PM
I literally said nothing of the sort.
Your flamewar is in another castle.

I'm not flaming. I never said anything that can be considered flaming.

plastroncafe
05-24-2016, 01:32 PM
I'm not flaming. I never said anything that can be considered flaming.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

snake
05-24-2016, 01:35 PM
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

John saw the man on the mountain with a telescope

ZariusTwo
05-24-2016, 01:42 PM
I literally said nothing of the sort.
Your flamewar is in another castle.



Because solid writing is a long game which requires the bigwigs to take a gamble they could lose.
People want flash, bang, and boom. Or...so the bigwigs keep insisting.

My DC was a gambling man....way down in New Orleans

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/7-7a878384df-1-600x911.jpg

Donatello19
05-24-2016, 05:52 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8zjrloZEb1qbqac0o1_250.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8zjrloZEb1qbqac0o2_250.gif

Shark_Blade
05-24-2016, 07:37 PM
Oh, agent since child? Pfft.

I thought he's gay or something. That'd be a twist.

ToTheNines
05-25-2016, 02:38 PM
I've read some of the classic Kirby/Simon stuff, some Stan Lee Avengers, most of the Brubaker run and some other random Cap stuff, and I have to say that they kind of pulled this out of their ass.

Skull, Zemo, Strucker and company have put him through way too much crap over the years for this to make sense. Surely it's just a Rico swerve that's gonna ultimately amount to nothing.

TonySiegel
05-25-2016, 02:56 PM
marketing ploy engage!

release the issue 1 missile...

observe the fallout from a distance...

Galactus
05-25-2016, 04:14 PM
Sure.
Given the popularity of the movie universe, where SHIELD was always a hotbed of Hydra activity, it makes sense that if they're going to integrate those changes into their world more fully...that Cap would be in on it.


Not sure this needed spoiler tags. I'm sure anyone interested in a Captain America comic has seen the The Winter Soldier by now. I should point out this concept was already in the comics before the movie.

As for the main issue, well Superior Spider-Man turned out to be a genuinely well received book, Superior Iron Man was okay so it's not exactly a surprise they would try the concept with another hero and while I'm not a huge collector of Captain America comic books (I liked Waid's runs, Brubakers and have a few collections of classic stuff) I doubt this is the first time has been brainwashed or had his mind altered to join the bad guys and that's pretty much what this will be. I'm shocked that people believe that Marvel is trying to pull that Steve Rogers has been a Hydra agent all along.

As far as I can see there's lots of ways this could work

1. It isn't actually Steve Rogers. I'm unsure about the current Red Skull but the classic Skull's body was a clone or Steve Rogers' own. This seems unlikely given the books title but it's a possibility.

2. Steve Rogers was programmed by Hydra as a child and his programming has only been activated recently.

3. The Red Skull has used the cosmic cube or similar device to rewrite history and indoctrinate Steve as a child and this is having an effect on present day Steve Rogers.

4. For some reason Hydra think they have brainwashed Steve and knowing this he's pulling a con to infiltrate them and bring them down from within.

Heck there's any number of ways this could work? Will it be a good story...I dunno but it's hardly the affront to the character that people are saying it is.

ZariusTwo
05-26-2016, 03:15 AM
Superior Spider-Man turned out to be a genuinely well received bookp

Most people I've talked to hated Superior. Even I consider it a worse story than OMD. It was a sales success for the concept alone, but as a story it doesn't hold up.

Not that there was anything fundamentally wrong with the premise, it's just the side-books were all better than the main course because Slott's a terribly unmotivated Spider-Man writer most of the time (he can be good in small doses though)

Superior Iron Man was okay

That one was a little bit better, but it had no resolution because of Secret Wars, and they ignored it when Bendis took over.

myconius
05-26-2016, 06:49 AM
Next thing you know... Peter Parker was in cahoots with Uncle Ben's killer due to some childish resentment of not knowing his true father. Thus, his guilt over Ben's death is due to the fact he truly was responsible.


don't give them any ideas!!! :lol:

you know what??? that's actually a LOT more compelling then the last few Spider-Man stories over read of the last few years!
you might be onto something there?

Krutch
05-26-2016, 07:02 AM
I don't really read Marvel, but, I'm not a fan of this twist. Seems like one of those twists that sound fun and shocking in the moment, but rereading old issues will definitely cause continuity problems when you consider his inner monologue.

ZariusTwo
05-26-2016, 08:02 AM
I don't really read Marvel, but, I'm not a fan of this twist. Seems like one of those twists that sound fun and shocking in the moment, but rereading old issues will definitely cause continuity problems when you consider his inner monologue.

CM Punk (who works for Marvel co-writing the Drax comic) basically admitted nobody at the company cares about continuity anymore

Candy Kappa
05-26-2016, 11:08 AM
http://40.media.tumblr.com/4c0a9d53b12ad82531c632f5401fe54c/tumblr_micin69lRf1s0p5ulo1_1280.jpg

CyberCubed
05-26-2016, 02:45 PM
LOL, even Chris Evans tweeted about this:

https://twitter.com/ChrisEvans?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^a uthor

Haha. I love when movie actors hear about comic news.

Candy Kappa
05-26-2016, 05:15 PM
http://panels.net/2016/05/26/on-steve-rogers-1-antisemitism-and-publicity-stunts/

The Deadman
05-27-2016, 02:17 PM
http://panels.net/2016/05/26/on-steve-rogers-1-antisemitism-and-publicity-stunts/

Man, the mods in the comment section seem like real asshats when someone tries to discuss something

Swapna Krishna Mod= LeightonJones a day ago
It's okay if you don't get it. That probably just means it's not about you

Swapna Krishna Mod= LeightonJones a day ago
We're really not interested in having this argument. Have a good day!

Could This Explain the Crazy Captain America Twist? (http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/26/crazy-captain-america-twist-possibly-explained-by-fan-theory)

plastroncafe
05-27-2016, 02:24 PM
I dunno...they look like they're stringently moderating the discussion in an effort to keep it on topic.

Candy Kappa
05-27-2016, 02:25 PM
The worst offender is...


The issue is a SNOOOZE-fest. Without the dumbest gimmicky twist ever, the issue would have been so boring, art is very nice. But damn, for being a return of Steve Rogers; Captain America *triumphant music* it's so... Dull.

Shark_Blade
05-27-2016, 05:48 PM
http://65.media.tumblr.com/a1af6191ce79ba9fb650bf7fc363d3db/tumblr_inline_o7rtwo3ea01rw69mq_400.png
http://67.media.tumblr.com/6a30b6577a836a503a8daeb79045e4ee/tumblr_inline_o7rtx4Ft9E1rw69mq_500.png


http://66.media.tumblr.com/0982ec2c1a10e95d0d4467d6463dc346/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo1_500.png
http://67.media.tumblr.com/9a06517a4ab846bdede8a359fd0fcdd1/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo4_500.png
http://66.media.tumblr.com/bb9830ea5db1c360cdc5189bba0279ee/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo3_500.png
http://66.media.tumblr.com/9ed241cc219636d196b49054b30318f4/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo8_500.png
http://66.media.tumblr.com/5e18df626320ec98cd7397a0e1211dfc/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo5_500.png
http://66.media.tumblr.com/4a88b4d3dfee2b2f3ba9bc3b85ffe6c3/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo6_500.png
http://67.media.tumblr.com/a4275973aa8cc18e69badc289946c7f6/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo7_500.png
http://65.media.tumblr.com/6414a5f6f3b7e0823e11d8e830e812d4/tumblr_o7s9ipPbQF1th1illo9_500.png

ZariusTwo
05-28-2016, 08:30 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/mad_hatter2k/capnazi.jpg

ZariusTwo
05-30-2016, 01:11 PM
Guardians' James Gunn weighs in...and receives death threats to his cat

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/content/captain-america-fan-hopes-james-gunns-cat-gets-thrown-wood-chipper

ZariusTwo
06-28-2016, 09:38 AM
So Marvel have spoiled the second issue's reveals 24 hours before the book comes out

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/28/hail-hydra-marvels-axel-alonso-spoils-captain-america-steve-rogers-2-can-we-join-in/

TurtleTitan97
06-28-2016, 10:40 AM
So Marvel have spoiled the second issue's reveals 24 hours before the book comes out

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/28/hail-hydra-marvels-axel-alonso-spoils-captain-america-steve-rogers-2-can-we-join-in/

Somehow, I just knew this twist was coming.

But nice to know Cap was never officially a Hydra sleeper agent, cause that would have contradicted a ton of history.

ZariusTwo
06-28-2016, 10:41 AM
Marvel can rest easy this week, DC don't have anything coming out tomorrow other than a couple of annuals.