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View Full Version : Ways the new "film" could have been moderately acceptable


Andrew NDB
06-03-2016, 01:41 PM
I say moderately acceptable and not "Good," because that's simply not possible as a continuation of the world of the "film" that preceded it. That said, how could it have been at least moderately acceptable? Well, it would kind of need to need to mend the massive damage of the last one first and foremost, not just gloss it over or hope that people won't care as long as the nostalgia junkies see Bebop and Rocksteady in it (which is pretty much what's happening, and what they're counting on). It would need to...

1. Flesh out the background of the Shredder, Oroku Saki, and retroactively create a connection with Splinter (i.e., a reason they hate each other) so as to better explain their animosity toward one another in the last one. This is pretty pivotal.

2. Feature Eric Sachs to at least some degree, if only to justify his motivations in the last movie and give him a true purpose. And then kill him off, whatever. Maybe he is actually a envoy for the Foot in Japan, or just a businessman who Oroku Saki has been shadowing to co-opt his resources for the Foot. Or an Utrom/Kraang.

3. This kind of ties into 1 and 2. The mural from the first one that apparently belongs to Sachs that seems to feature Utroms or Kraangs crawling around Feudal Japan... uh, this needs to be explained. They really, really want Dimension X and Krang and all of that rubbish? Then fine, here is your way. Reveal Sachs as an Utrom or Kraang in a skinsuit, and in this new movie he reveals this to Saki and, with the help of Baxter, opens the gate to Dimension X to bring in his boss, Krang (his attempted gas attack on NYC in the first movie? maybe he wanted to "clear the area" for Krang's arrival). And then Saki kills Sachs because his use to him is done after the gate is open and he pledges loyalty to Krang. Or something.

4. Explain the Foot Clan's "Phase 2," in shifting from a military-style motif to a more traditional ninja one. This could be as simple as Saki giving a speech to the Foot after the events of the first movie, declaring, "Hey. We're gonna stop f***ing around now, the old ways are best!" and they start passing out traditional Foot dogis and weapons. Something, anything.

5. Explain the de-powering of the Turtles. You know, bullets were bouncing of their skin in the first one and now they're terrified of guns. A throwaway reference to when Sachs drained their blood in the first one left them somewhat weaker now would work. Or hell, could even explain them shrinking a bit if they wanted to shrink them to less-than-Hulk sizes (but they don't).

All of these items addressed, and the new movie would have at least marshaled enough of an effort to moderately pull the new Turtle movie franchise out of the crapper (albeit, while still remaining essentially creatively bankrupt). But it doesn't sound like it even addresses a single one of them, just glosses over all of it to steamroll their way to Bebop, Rocksteady and vehicles and toys which all the marketing seems to revolve around.

plastroncafe
06-03-2016, 01:43 PM
Wait wait wait...am I taking this to mean you've SEEN the new movie?

ZariusTwo
06-03-2016, 01:44 PM
t. That said, how could it have been at least moderately OK? ]

It is OK.

You may not like it, but that's your misfortune.

Why waste our time elaborating on stuff from the first movie when the time span simply doesn't call for it?

This is just glorified fanfiction disguised as criticism and needs to be dumped in the appropriate section.

Andrew NDB
06-03-2016, 01:48 PM
Wait wait wait...am I taking this to mean you've SEEN the new movie?

www.hellno.com

neatoman
06-03-2016, 01:52 PM
There are a lot of things that could have made this movie better, like not having the plot rely on Shredder trusting Krang like a dumbass.

plastroncafe
06-03-2016, 01:56 PM
But isn't that the point of the whole FW cartoon?

ZariusTwo
06-03-2016, 01:57 PM
There are a lot of things that could have made this movie better, like not having the plot rely on Shredder trusting Krang like a dumbass.

He had no reason not to trust him, Krang's weapons gave him a forboding force in Rocksteady and Bebop that proved effective against the Turtles and in retrieving what was needed to summon the Technodrome, things went his way pretty much the whole film until Krang showed his hand.

neatoman
06-03-2016, 02:06 PM
He had no reason not to trust him, Krang's weapons gave him a forboding force in Rocksteady and Bebop that proved effective against the Turtles and in retrieving what was needed to summon the Technodrome, things went his way pretty much the whole film until Krang showed his hand.

Nice try but no, even if it would have been a good idea to do what the strange alien told him to, he still should have set up precautions if a betrayal would happen. Instead he just gets frozen like an idiot.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-03-2016, 02:08 PM
COMPETENT WRITING.

It is that simple.

TigerClaw
06-03-2016, 02:13 PM
Don't mind Andrew NDB, He's only into the mirage comics, and never got into latter stuff.

Don't take his comments seriously.

TurtleTitan97
06-03-2016, 02:16 PM
COMPETENT WRITING.

It is that simple.

^ This x 10,000

Why we couldn't have gotten a competent crew to work on these films is beyond me.

plastroncafe
06-03-2016, 02:19 PM
COMPETENT WRITING.

It is that simple.

It had to be said.
Though...I should point out my immediate bias: I haven't seen the second one.
(I wonder if I still have that 5th of vodka left over from trying to watch the first one....)

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-03-2016, 02:19 PM
Don't mind Andrew NDB, He's only into the mirage comics, and never got into latter stuff.

Don't take his comments seriously.

Heaven forbid we take seriously someone who has actually produced Ninja Turtles comics with the original creative teams (Erik Larsen, Gary Carlson, Jim Lawson, et al).

If it comes down to a choice between the Tasteless Manchild and the Mirage Purist, I'm Team Andrew all day long.

ZariusTwo
06-03-2016, 02:23 PM
If it comes down to a choice between the Tasteless Manchild and the Mirage Purist, I'm Team Andrew all day long.

Oh look, petty labelling, how mature. You sure showed us.

Unless the film is "dark'n'edgy", the MIRAGE purists wash their hands of any version that comes along and denies the waking world their sacred vision.

I'd rather have people of all ages enjoy the Turtles than some niche group that live for one vision, all of the time.

As one person said, "There are different lenses with which to see the world"

ToTheNines
06-03-2016, 02:43 PM
That's bull sh*t Zarius. Andrew is basically the only Mirage purist around here, plenty of us like various versions of TMNT. I love everything from the OT, to the Nick show, & pretty much everything else.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Platinum Dunes just plain doesn't understand TMNT. Or care enough to simply produce an ineligible script.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-03-2016, 02:49 PM
Oh look, petty labelling, how mature. You sure showed us.

Unless the film is "dark'n'edgy", the MIRAGE purists wash their hands of any version that comes along and denies the waking world their sacred vision.

I'd rather have people of all ages enjoy the Turtles than some niche group that live for one vision, all of the time.

As one person said, "There are different lenses with which to see the world"

I see you missed the point completely, Zarri. You sure showed us.

plastroncafe
06-03-2016, 03:04 PM
That's bull sh*t Zarius. Andrew is basically the only Mirage purist around here, plenty of us like various versions of TMNT. I love everything from the OT, to the Nick show, & pretty much everything else.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Platinum Dunes just plain doesn't understand TMNT. Or care enough to simply produce an ineligible script.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the notion that a Mirage Purist can't find entertainment in other versions, because...I do and am one.

ToTheNines
06-03-2016, 03:10 PM
The only thing I'd disagree with is the notion that a Mirage Purist can't find entertainment in other versions, because...I do and am one.

By that, I just meant "Mirage-only" fans.

plastroncafe
06-03-2016, 03:12 PM
By that, I just meant "Mirage-only" fans.

Ahhh. Gotcha.

CyberCubed
06-03-2016, 03:13 PM
But isn't that the point of the whole FW cartoon?

I haven't seen this movie yet so I have no idea what Shredder and Krang are like in it, but in the original cartoon they were friends and essentially an old married couple. Sure sometimes Shredder or Krang would try to go against each others backs but they always made up in the end.

Andrew NDB
06-03-2016, 03:20 PM
Don't mind Andrew NDB, He's only into the mirage comics, and never got into latter stuff.

Don't take his comments seriously.

Well, I got into it with the FW stuff like most folks. I get that adult fans can sit here 25 years later and, you know, debate the logic in the Pizza Monster episode of the show, or which accessory of the toys is coolest... that's fine. I just outgrew it. And I do like other TMNT things.

* I like a healthy portion of the Archie comics. I don't know that I would necessarily want to see more of it now as an adult, but it's too ingrained in my childhood not to still enjoy the heck out of it. Plus, it's not remotely as vapid as the cartoon that spawned it.
* I like the first NES TMNT game. It was surprisingly innovative for its time and versatile in its gameplay. They gave up after that. The new one might be OK, seems to be an IDW adaptation and seems like it captures the spirit. And Waltz worked on it so that's cool. I will give it a gander at some point.
* I like about 70% of the 1990 movie.
* I like about... 40% of the 2007 movie.
* I have an I love-you/I-hate-you affair with the IDW book. But it's always been well-written. It definitely has its moments. Kind of wish it would stop trying to please everybody and sort of just do its own thing, but it's maybe it's too late for that and it seems fairly committed to being a jambalaya of everything TMNT -- the good and a disproportionate % of the bad. Every new incarnation of TMNT doesn't need new Bebops, Rocksteadys, Mechaturtles, Mutagen Mans, and all of that.
* I enjoy the Nickelodeon cartoon with my daughter. It's not the TMNT to me, but it's funny and we enjoy it.

But I agree, it's probably much easier and simpler to just shrug and go, "Oh yeah, mean 'ole Andrew, he doesn't like nuthin but Mirage!"

It had to be said.
Though...I should point out my immediate bias: I haven't seen the second one.
(I wonder if I still have that 5th of vodka left over from trying to watch the first one....)

Let me know when you find it.

Galactus
06-03-2016, 10:06 PM
Well I'm kind of at at a disadvantage with this as I have not seen the movie and despite being naturally very curious was going to stick to my guns and not see I must admit the fact that it looks to be flopping strangely makes me open to seeing it.

Based on what I know about the movie and assuming in broad strokes the plot would be the same I think some tweaks would have made me interested in seeing it.

1 The car chase/Shredder breakout wouldn't have had Shredder teleported way but escape via traditional means like jumping out of the police truck into a helicopter or something. Begin grounded and build up to the sci fi elements. I've said before that I wish that even in a car there was perhaps opportunities for more traditional combat. Perhaps the roof or sides of the truck opens up and some of the turtles bat off Foot Ninja trying to board it.

2 I wasn't expecting it to be in there but given that Splinter's role in this is largely to give Leo and the pep talks I don't think a reference to Hamato Yoshi could have easily been worked in. Given the attempt to disconnect from the previous movie I don't think anyone would concern themselves with how this squares with the previous movie's lab origin. In fact you could work in that he was murdered by Saki.

3 I would have had it established that Shredder had worked with Krang off screen all along and the invasion was something they'd planned and now is the time to strike rather than just have them team up randomly in this movie. That way it can implied there is a motive for them to work together this way even if they don't say it.

4 I don't see why they cast an actor like Brian Tee when it sounds like he does less than the character did in the previous one. No need to bogged down too much by continuity with the previous movie but if they didn't want to keep Masamune I would have had Tee's version have similar scars. Also it's very disappointing he doesn't fight anyone at all. Surely there must have been some opportunity to have him fight the turtles maybe even reference Yoshi. Telling Leonardo or Splinter something like "I'll kill you like I killed that traitor Yoshi".

5 Casey should have had a more blue collar job. Perhaps a mechanic for his parents auto shop and when gangs continually terrorize his neighborhood (perhaps even have a reference to the old says hinting at the Purple Dragons and what Hun did to his father) he goes to the police and Linney's character is sympathetic but it's clear the NYPD are focused on recapturing Shredder he decides to take things into his own hands.

vicsavage
06-03-2016, 10:41 PM
Cut Shredder and the Foot entirely and just have Baxter Stockman team up with Krang, create Bebop and Rocksteady. It eliminates antagonists who don't actually do anything while giving time for other characters to develop.

Shark_Blade
06-04-2016, 12:41 AM
Cut Shredder and the Foot entirely and just have Baxter Stockman team up with Krang, create Bebop and Rocksteady. It eliminates antagonists who don't actually do anything while giving time for other characters to develop.

But then that wouldn't stay true to the credits song ending: "When the evil Shredder attacks".

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 09:58 PM
But then that wouldn't stay true to the credits song ending: "When the evil Shredder attacks".

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Facepalm-Meme-08.png

Technogeek29
06-06-2016, 10:15 PM
Wait wait wait...am I taking this to mean you've SEEN the new movie?

If you've seen my spiel on the movie I spoil quite a lot of it.

Technogeek29
06-06-2016, 10:24 PM
Focus more on Baxter for one, I liked him the most in this movie.

Now we had our OT movie can we please do something else?

neatoman
06-07-2016, 03:57 AM
But then that wouldn't stay true to the credits song ending: "When the evil Shredder attacks".

When the evil Shredder attacks (after at least an hour and a half of doing basically nothing)... He gets frozen like a little bitch and the final battle is against a character who was barely in the movie...

Andrew NDB
06-07-2016, 11:07 PM
When the evil Shredder attacks (after at least an hour and a half of doing basically nothing)... He gets frozen like a little bitch and the final battle is against a character who was barely in the movie...

The irony... "when the eeeevil Shredder attacks." But he doesn't. And that's the iteration they're dry-humping for apparently two hours.

Technogeek29
06-07-2016, 11:31 PM
The irony... "when the eeeevil Shredder attacks." But he doesn't. And that's the iteration they're dry-humping for apparently two hours.

Sad thing is he is more of a wimp then the OT Shredder.

Coola Yagami
06-08-2016, 11:50 PM
Don't mind Andrew NDB, He's only into the mirage comics, and never got into latter stuff.

Don't take his comments seriously.

But all his points are true though.....

Like it or not, he's right.


Maybe the next movies can be serious re-imagining. I mean... it worked for the Dark Knight Trilogy.

Andrew NDB
06-16-2016, 01:05 PM
Maybe the next movies can be serious re-imagining. I mean... it worked for the Dark Knight Trilogy.

I just hope they don't take away the wrong message from OotS. i.e., "Damn, we didn't go goofy enough! We didn't add enough Fred Wolfisms!"

neatoman
06-16-2016, 03:18 PM
I just hope they don't take away the wrong message from OotS. i.e., "Damn, we didn't go goofy enough! We didn't add enough Fred Wolfisms!"

Uh yeah, no f*cking way they're gonna think that... Unless they're literally drooling morons.

This movie was so childish and goofy, it made Ice Age 3 look like a serious movie... No, even Ice Age 3 doesn't deserves to be compared to this movie.

They are probably going to use Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome for future movies but I seriously doubt another movie that's actually similar to this will happen anytime soon.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-16-2016, 03:23 PM
Uh yeah, no f*cking way they're gonna think that... Unless they're literally drooling morons.

Um...

It's been my understanding that they are, in fact, literally drooling morons.

My brother-in-law works as the drool-cup emptier on set. He had to have about a dozen vaccinations before starting the job.

Jephael
06-17-2016, 10:38 PM
*after having read this entire thread*

http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com/uploads/monthly_2015_10/image.gif.2bf579eac50787a41a52994681a14ac2.gif

Coola Yagami
06-17-2016, 11:57 PM
Um...

It's been my understanding that they are, in fact, literally drooling morons.

My brother-in-law works as the drool-cup emptier on set. He had to have about a dozen vaccinations before starting the job.

Considering these are the same guys that originally wanted the Turtles to be aliens and Eric Sucks to be Shredder.... yeah... drooling morons.

Walkabout
06-18-2016, 07:25 AM
Well I haven't seen this new Bayturtles movie (or the last one) and have no desire to...I've seen what the characters look like (Shrek, Megan Fox and Arrow) and I've seen the first two Bayformers movies (and have the brain damage to prove it) so I know exactly what I would be in for.

If the TMNT (and Splinter, April, Casey etc) just had their traditional look instead of...THAT I would have more than likely been pretty affable about these movies.

Cryomancer
06-19-2016, 03:31 PM
I just hope they don't take away the wrong message from OotS. i.e., "Damn, we didn't go goofy enough! We didn't add enough Fred Wolfisms!"

I feel like I would dislike these movies slightly less if they did actually go full idiot cartoon with them instead of trying to do this half measures crap where they want to somehow be both "not your dad's tmnt" and "literally your tmnt, dad". Pick one! And if it's the "not", just adapt some of the good ****! I don't see how this is such a difficult concept for them.

I also think Will Arnett would have been a possibly good casting choice for Vernon if he was actually acting the character straight from the cartoon. I mean, no one wanted him back at all, but if we had to, that seemed like it could have worked. But then he's just nothing like him so what was the point?

CyberCubed
06-19-2016, 06:24 PM
I also think Will Arnett would have been a possibly good casting choice for Vernon if he was actually acting the character straight from the cartoon. I mean, no one wanted him back at all, but if we had to, that seemed like it could have worked. But then he's just nothing like him so what was the point?

Really? He acted exactly like a real life Vernon would. He even took the credit for saving NYC from Shredder and scooped April on her story. Of course he was more friendly with her too but that doesn't matter.

IndigoErth
06-19-2016, 07:05 PM
True, I hadn't thought of that, Vern taking credit. Though more accurately should have taken credit away from April instead. (But Turtles... you did make that deal with him. Maybe it was his milking it to that extent that got to them though.)

I don't mind his Vern, but playing a snotty, whiny, cowardly Vernon would have been amusing. (Or annoying.)

Powder
06-19-2016, 07:27 PM
I'd have definitely minded him a lot less if he were flamboyant, whiny, spineless, & wearing the proper clothes. Instead we get kind of a douche bag stereotype guy.

Cryomancer
06-19-2016, 07:33 PM
Yeah the stealing credit is kind of there but it's only at the very end and everyone's cool with it, if I recall? Didn't really seem very much like the severe asshole / potentially dangerous **** he'd pull in the cartoon once in awhile.

Hell they also could have done something like that one episode where he attempts to go out and do his job properly and gets captured and tortured instead. He could have been the "damsel" of the series, would make an OK running gag maybe?

IndigoErth
06-19-2016, 08:24 PM
Hell they also could have done something like that one episode where he attempts to go out and do his job properly and gets captured and tortured instead. He could have been the "damsel" of the series, would make an OK running gag maybe?
:tlol: I could deal with that. Let the Turtles mock "The Falcon" a tiny bit in the process.

killerkobra
06-21-2016, 03:43 PM
That was my main "hate" on the Dune films. What could have been. I am sorry I just cannot take them for what they are knowing the potential TMNT have. I loved the first 2 seasons (and parts of 3 and 4) of the Nick series. Great for kids, adults, casual fans and hardcore fans imo. So the movies could have done that for sure.

I agree with the OP. They just missed the mark and the box office is showing that.