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View Full Version : Pros & cons about TMNT: OotS' failure at the box office


Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 11:14 AM
Pros:

* TMNT as a movie franchise can now take a very necessary dirt nap for a while and TPTB will have no choice but to reevaluate things for the next go-around.
* Another reboot can probably be expected, but probably not in the too-foreseeable future. We probably shouldn't have a great deal of confidence in said reboot being much better than this first foray, but it's difficult to imagine it being much worse.
* Platinum Dunes deservedly has egg on their face in a very public way.
* TPTB tried to do a big Fred Wolf bonanza with "Everything a fan wants" complete with Bebop and cowabunga and Technodrome and all of that and it has squarely fallen flat on its face. The overwhelming likelihood is that they won't try that a second time.
* This pleases me, personally, greatly. And that should be important to you.

Cons:

...

TrickOrTreater
06-06-2016, 11:17 AM
I like this thread, I'm excited to be a part of it, let's do it!

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 11:20 AM
I like this thread, I'm excited to be a part of it, let's do it!

Climb aboard!

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Zak The Neutrino
06-06-2016, 11:20 AM
There is a con. This could hurt the brand.

If these movie toys linger too long on shelves retailers are going to think the whole brand is soft and lower their future orders on the Nick line of toys. For those of us that like the Nick turtles that's not a good thing.

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 11:24 AM
There is a con. This could hurt the brand.

If these movie toys linger too long on shelves retailers are going to think the whole brand is soft and lower their future orders on the Nick line of toys. For those of us that like the Nick turtles that's not a good thing.

The very existence of things like OotS hurt the "brand." While it's true that its failure might peripherally hurt things like the Nick cartoon, or maybe even the chances a new reader might pick up a copy of IDW TMNT ("Is this about those Hulk Turtles with the lame chains and Arrow? Mehhh, pass")... it's far better for these movies to be stunted and go down in flames more sooner than later. By movie #3 or #4 some (additional) rather permanent damage would be done, though even still it's pretty hurt.

Zak The Neutrino
06-06-2016, 11:28 AM
The very existence of things like OotS hurt the "brand." While it's true that its failure might peripherally hurt things like the Nick cartoon, or maybe even the chances a new reader might pick up a copy of IDW TMNT ("Is this about those Hulk Turtles with the lame chains and Arrow? Mehhh, pass")... it's far better for these movies to be stunted and uprooted more sooner than later. By movie #3 or #4 some rather permanent damage would be done, though even still it's pretty hurt.

Good point. I guess I never really thought about it that way. However this was just posted in another thread. Not great news.

http://www.thewrap.com/why-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-sequels-will-keep-coming-regardless-of-box-office/

TrickOrTreater
06-06-2016, 11:28 AM
The very existence of things like OotS hurt the "brand." While it's true that its failure might peripherally hurt things like the Nick cartoon, or maybe even the chances a new reader might pick up a copy of IDW TMNT ("Is this about those Hulk Turtles with the lame chains and Arrow? Mehhh, pass")... it's far better for these movies to be stunted and uprooted more sooner than later. By movie #3 or #4 some rather permanent damage would be done, though even still it's pretty hurt.

Yep. We had some really good things going for a long while there. New hit cartoon that was very much a good modern take on the 80s cartoon(on tv where that kind of thing belongs), lots of new comics that I'm told are great(I'll be able to afford to read them eventually).

But then these sh*tty movies came along and that might mess things up a bit.

They only have themselves to blame, and if anything happens to lessen the cartoon and the comics, I feel very, very bad for the talented creators behind those mediums that their great products were tainted by crappy ones.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-06-2016, 11:37 AM
I've always looked at the situation as this... Viacom getting the rights made possible a number of things:

The Nickelodeon cartoon. To me, it's "meh" but not terrible. Some pretty good stuff, miles ahead of Fred Wolf and--when it tries--some pretty great writing. So, overall, GOOD.

IDW comics. Amazing stuff that I look forward to every month. Not only that, but IDW has been reprinting the Mirage and Archie stuff. Definitely GOOD.

Platinum Dunes movies. Terrible terrible half-assed lazy movies with zero competent writing. Most public "face" of the property currently and definitely not doing anyone any favors. Critically, it's BAD.

Merch. Action figures, board games, new video games, all the usual kiddie bedsheets/pajamas/toothpaste/et al. A lot of crap, some cool stuff... definitely something for everyone, though. I'll rate it GOOD.

4Kids cartoon. The previous cartoon was finally getting some decent DVD releases, Seasons 1 and 2 divided into two halves. Then the sale happened and the show pretty much disappeared from the face of the earth and lives on only on YouTube and Amazon (first three seasons only). BAD.

Overall, I'm willing to pay the price of terrible terrible movies if it means the IDW comics continue to be possible. My only fear is that at some point, the Turtle Train gets derailed, no doubt with Platinum Dunes contributing a fair portion of that apocalypse.

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 11:45 AM
Good point. I guess I never really thought about it that way. However this was just posted in another thread. Not great news.

http://www.thewrap.com/why-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-sequels-will-keep-coming-regardless-of-box-office/

Seems pretty speculative to me, though not untrue. But it's not like Warner Bros. soldiered ahead with more movies in that particular iteration after "Batman & Robin" dropped rather embarrassingly, and Batman movies were as big into toys as TMNT, if not a great deal moreso. There's a tipping point when a thing becomes so radioactive, pulling the ship back into port rather than Moby Dicking things becomes the most sensible thing to do.

Zak The Neutrino
06-06-2016, 11:50 AM
Seems pretty speculative to me, though not untrue. But it's not like Warner Bros. soldiered ahead with more movies in that particular iteration after "Batman & Robin" dropped rather embarrassingly, and Batman movies were as big into toys as TMNT, if not a great deal moreso. There's a tipping point when a thing becomes so radioactive, pulling the ship back into port rather than Moby Dicking things becomes the most sensible thing to do.

Speaking of WB maybe Paramount could wake up like WB did after BvS. Fire the whole staff and rehire new people.

neatoman
06-06-2016, 11:56 AM
The movie was "tentacle mucus to the eye", so it's a really good thing it isn't doing well.

IndigoErth
06-06-2016, 11:58 AM
The only con I have - at this point I don't want to be done seeing what can be done with this set of Turtles. Two films, and just one where we're finally starting to get to know them. After a hard start two years ago, they've grown on me. They have potential, don't really want to be done with them yet...I just want them out of PD's hands. Hand their computer files over to someone else who can write and produce responsibly. Someone competent needs to stage a hostile takeover of the right to make their films.

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 12:12 PM
They have potential, don't really want to be done with them yet...I just want them out of PD's hands. Hand their computer files over to someone else who can write and produce responsibly.

I'm OK with them taking all of their "computer files" on these last two films, taking any and all of the backups of them along with any tangential assets and props, rounding every piece of pre- and post-production into one singular office building and then...

https://johnnycat.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/explosion.jpg

Editor's Note Comics
06-06-2016, 12:59 PM
So far, this movie has done nothing for me to increase comic sales. There was no buzz ahead of time and no one has come in asking about TMNT because of this movie since it came out. This could change, but I doubt it. The Deadpool bubble is only just starting to burst and Civil War is going really strong. Good movies equal increased comic sale. You let me down, Platinum Dunes.

vicsavage
06-06-2016, 02:00 PM
The only con I can think of is this decreases the chances of a Rifftrax of Platinum Dunes' TMNT 3.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
06-06-2016, 02:22 PM
Honestly...this reminds me of the time when Ninja Turtles 3 came out in 1993...and sometime after that, the Next Mutation hit.

In other words...the time where it made me fall out of love for the Ninja Turtles.

It took the 2003 cartoon to bring me back...the first 2 seasons of the Nick Cartoon were pretty decent.

But now that the Nick cartoon turned to sh** (especially the third season, gave up on that crapfest), and we have these new "films" :trolleye:

Now that time comes around again...I'd rather it die off and wait for the next '2003 cartoon, etc.' to bring me back.

And to people who get pissed off....

I'm sorry, but all I ask are capable Martial Arts & fight sequences/choreography that even Marvel is doing in the Captain America movies...

And for the 4 characters to be treated as actual 3-Dimensional characters. Have some back and forth that serve the characters and their specific relationship between one another...not Plot Exposition, exposition, exposition, and more exposition...even a simple 'Mikey pranking Raph, Raph coming after him, giving him a noogie for his troubles'...

Why are simple things like that not capable of being put into a movie?

chrisdude
06-06-2016, 02:24 PM
I agree that we need to wait for China. This kind of stuff always does better over there. I'd also like to see what legs this movie has. Movies don't open poorly because they're bad. They open poorly because people aren't interested. If word gets out that it's, at least, better than the last movie, it might hang in theaters for a while. I truly believe this movie is suffering from the reception of the last film, and the drop next weekend won't be very large.

Regardless, toys.

FredWolfLeonardo
06-06-2016, 02:31 PM
Not everyone watches a new release on the first weekend

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-06-2016, 02:38 PM
Why are simple things like that not capable of being put into a movie?

Why?

Because they don't want to pay for a writer with any level of competence.

Bry
06-06-2016, 02:45 PM
Not everyone watches a new release on the first weekend

Of course not everyone... but a significant percentage does, typically 1/3 or more of the total audience.

IndigoErth
06-06-2016, 03:24 PM
If word gets out that it's, at least, better than the last movie, it might hang in theaters for a while. I truly believe this movie is suffering from the reception of the last film, and the drop next weekend won't be very large.

Not everyone watches a new release on the first weekend
Also wondering if opening the weekend or so before most schools close for the summer is a good date to choose. I wouldn't be surprised if some families are saying "next week," after school is out and initial crowds have let up. (Although let me say, a late Sunday night after opening, last showing of the night, is PERFECT if you want it quiet. My mom and I almost had a private screening; thought we would, but three others showed up before it started.)


As for holdouts... yeah, my brother-in-law is interested in checking it out for Bebop and Rocksteady. They only rented the prior film, but was asking last night if I thought it was worth a theater viewing. Very possible many are just waiting to see what others are saying.

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 03:29 PM
Also wondering if opening the weekend or so before most schools close for the summer is a good date to choose. I wouldn't be surprised if some families are saying "next week," after school is out and initial crowds have let up. (Although let me say, a late Sunday night after opening, last showing of the night, is PERFECT if you want it quiet. My mom and I almost had a private screening; thought we would, but three others showed up before it started.)


As for holdouts... yeah, my brother-in-law is interested in checking it out for Bebop and Rocksteady. They only rented the prior film, but was asking last night if I thought it was worth a theater viewing. Very possible many are just waiting to see what others are saying.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BR8BA9NZL.jpg

mrmaczaps
06-06-2016, 03:38 PM
I only saw it because got in free... it was better than the first but it definitely wouldn't hurt my feelings if this version of the TMNT burns to the ground... like Zack said, it hasn't drawn anyone into reading comics... if it had a more traditional looking Turtles (& Casey) then I think it would have been easier for parents to buy their kids comics and the young adult crowd basically the same thing... no tie in for the movie in a comic book format... just plenty of short toys... and we all know how well Playmates does things...

d_osborn
06-06-2016, 04:20 PM
* Platinum Dunes deservedly has egg on their face in a very public way.

I haven't really been keeping up with the numbers or anything, but I think PD has had a few pretty high profile failures. I'm sure TMNT2 has a MUCH larger budget, but the Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th reboots were pretty big flops, among several other horror reboots.

It'll be interesting to see where this all goes. TMNT still seems like a very strong brand at the moment. If merch sales are still high, it'll be as easy correlation to see that the film's performance isn't tied to a diminishing brand but subpar product.

Personally, I'd love to see Paramount reboot the franchise with a more Chris Nolan feel, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Cryomancer
06-06-2016, 04:46 PM
Well the turnaround on "reboot with two lame movies, reboot again" on Spider-Man has been pretty quick so who knows, maybe something cool will happen?

Yeah, probably not.

ToTheNines
06-06-2016, 04:52 PM
Well the turnaround on "reboot with two lame movies, reboot again" on Spider-Man has been pretty quick so who knows, maybe something cool will happen?

Yeah, probably not.

5 years between Raimi's garbage and Amazingly bad part 1. Then 3 (technically just 2) years in between the last one and the Marvel takeover.

So yes, it's possible. Either way I hope the IDW series isn't adversely affected.

ernesth100
06-06-2016, 05:50 PM
Pros: We'll eventually get the reboot we deserve. Unless Pramount wants to end the trilogy. But they did everything in TMNT 2 so there's kinda to go. In the end considering what this movies making I'd be in serious shock and awe if they did a third. That's company suicide and a massive waste of money as I think Box Office wise it only goes down hill.

Cons: I kinda wanted the TMNT 3 to involve the Triceratons invading the Earth and Shredder creating more mutant animals as a side plot. Maybe Stockman fly and Leatherhead, two of my favorite TMNT mutants.

Andrew NDB
06-06-2016, 06:38 PM
I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed. Like I've said ad nauseum, at this point the one thing they haven't tried on the big screen, the one last ace up the sleeve, the last magic trick they can pull before the gig is up is, you guessed it, a spiritual adaptation of the Mirage TMNT. At some point the suits will probably realize that and talk about it... even if it's just in passing before the subject is changed to how they can write a movie around a scene with Turtles escaping from a crashing space shuttle or something.

sdp
06-06-2016, 08:13 PM
First movie they don't give two ***** about the internet; get bashed everywhere online. Does pretty well.

Second movie they pander to internet nerds; get praised everywhere online. Does terrible.

NinjaPug
06-06-2016, 08:17 PM
First movie they don't give two ***** about the internet; get bashed everywhere online. Does pretty well.

Second movie they pander to internet nerds; get praised everywhere online. Does terrible.

It's tough to build on a terrible foundation.

Zak The Neutrino
06-06-2016, 08:18 PM
I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed. Like I've said ad nauseum, at this point the one thing they haven't tried on the big screen, the one last ace up the sleeve, the last magic trick they can pull before the gig is up is, you guessed it, a spiritual adaptation of the Mirage TMNT. At some point the suits will probably realize that and talk about it... even if it's just in passing before the subject is changed to how they can write a movie around a scene with Turtles escaping from a crashing space shuttle or something.

I'm sure if there is a third one you might have hit it on the head with crashing space shuttle. They could do Triceratons. That would give Michael Bay plenty of lasers and expositions for his liking.

d_osborn
06-06-2016, 08:47 PM
I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed.
I don't think it's bombing due to the Fred Wolf elements. Not at all. There was a pretty interesting article on Forbes today about TMNT 2--the trend of really bad franchise starters from well-known properties and their better quality, but under-performing sequels.

Personally, going in with super low expectations, I really enjoyed the B&R/Krang/Technodrome material. For what it was, anyway.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/06/06/ninja-turtles-2-box-office-is-terrible-news-for-justice-league

Bry
06-06-2016, 08:58 PM
I don't think it's bombing due to the Fred Wolf elements. Not at all. There was a pretty interesting article on Forbes today about TMNT 2--the trend of really bad franchise starters from well-known properties and their better quality, but under-performing sequels.

Personally, going in with super low expectations, I really enjoyed the B&R/Krang/Technodrome material. For what it was, anyway.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/06/06/ninja-turtles-2-box-office-is-terrible-news-for-justice-league

He makes some very good points about box office trends, though I've gotta raise an eyebrow at him raving about how "improved" this movie is like it's the second coming of Christ, rather than a deeply (and compared to the first movie, similarly) flawed mindless blockbuster that basically doesn't have a plot but is crammed full of fan-service instead. I get the appeal for 30-somethings who grew up with Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang and haven't really followed the property much further than that, but nostalgia alone doesn't make for a good movie. Hell, there've been a ton of compelling arguments about how the actual story of this movie's worse than the last one.

Personally, I don't think it failed because of the Fred Wolf elements, but I think it's proven that those elements can't, and shouldn't, be the main focus of the franchise, and that maybe their appeal isn't as big or as widespread as the studio thought. First the Nick/Fred Wolf crossover episode barely nudged the ratings bar, and now this has severely underperformed after a relentless nostalgia-baiting marketing campaign.

Which is good news, I think. "MEMBA THIS?" is a cheap, short-sighted promo tactic to pin the entire property on. Time to focus on its strengths in character and story. (The two things these movies have completely neglected.)

d_osborn
06-06-2016, 09:14 PM
He makes some very good points about box office trends, though I've gotta raise an eyebrow at him raving about how "improved" this movie is like it's the second coming of Christ, rather than a deeply (and compared to the first movie, similarly) flawed mindless blockbuster that basically doesn't have a plot but is crammed full of fan-service instead. I get the appeal for 30-somethings who grew up with Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang and haven't really followed the property much further than that, but nostalgia alone doesn't make for a good movie. Hell, there've been a ton of compelling arguments about how the actual story of this movie's worse than the last one.

Did we read the same article? I didn't get any second coming of Christ vibes from it at all. Saying the movie is an improvement over the previous isn't saying it's up there with The Godfather and Casablanca or that it's the definitive ,best possible TMNT movie. It's Forbes, not a fan site, not a cinema site. The writer's general thoughts on OOTS match up with pretty much everything I've heard/read from anyone other than some hardcore fans here. I'm assuming most people are approaching OOTS as a actiony kid's film, and in that regards-- it's a fun watch. Anything outside of that is a stretch. Which is a shame because TMNT is capable of so much more...

TMNT is cooler than MOTU
06-07-2016, 01:14 AM
I haven't really been keeping up with the numbers or anything, but I think PD has had a few pretty high profile failures. I'm sure TMNT2 has a MUCH larger budget, but the Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th reboots were pretty big flops, among several other horror reboots.

It'll be interesting to see where this all goes. TMNT still seems like a very strong brand at the moment. If merch sales are still high, it'll be as easy correlation to see that the film's performance isn't tied to a diminishing brand but subpar product.

Personally, I'd love to see Paramount reboot the franchise with a more Chris Nolan feel, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Actually, their horror films tend to do pretty decently at the box office. The budgets are pretty small so they don't have to be huge 9-figure box office grosses.

TerranigmaFreak
06-07-2016, 02:40 AM
Con: We have to watch another origin story again.

ZariusTwo
06-07-2016, 06:09 AM
Personally, I don't think it failed because of the Fred Wolf elements, but I think it's proven that those elements can't, and shouldn't, be the main focus of the franchise

Tell that to the Nick show, I'm no fan of that, but it does integrate those elements into it's own complexion well for the most part

Time to focus on its strengths in character and story. (The two things these movies have completely neglected.)

Funny, because most of the praise for this movie have focused on...guess what? Character and story.

But hey, feel free to ignore the facts. :roll:

Bry
06-07-2016, 06:50 AM
Oy, this guy again. :trazz:

Tell that to the Nick show, I'm no fan of that, but it does integrate those elements into it's own complexion well for the most part

Except it doesn't stop there. It picks elements out of multiple versions of the property, not just Fred Wolf, and hangs all that on actual story, backstory, and plot lines largely based on the original Mirage comics. Which is why the better episodes of the Nick show have an actual story while these movies really don't.

Funny, because most of the praise for this movie have focused on...guess what? Character and story.

And that praise seems to be in the minority. How many reviews have slagged the movie for effectively having no story, a half-baked (at best) plot, for having paper-thin characters who don't have actual arcs, and whose supposed "development" is just abruptly stated and not actually shown or earned in the story? Because I lost count.

There's more to story than "action set-piece leads to action set-piece leads to action set-piece", and there's more to character than "most of their personalities are intact".

But hey, feel free to ignore the facts. :roll:

You might want to check your definition of "fact", because it sounds like you're veering into Opinion Town. Here's a handy link (https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fact).

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Bry
06-07-2016, 07:00 AM
Did we read the same article? I didn't get any second coming of Christ vibes from it at all.

Okay, I was being a bit hyperbolic. A bit. :trazz:

But here are the things he says about the movie in the first three short paragraphs:


"everything we wanted the first film to be"
"it served as a perfect template for how to make a crowd-pleasing Justice League movie"
"it’s filled with creative action and genuine character chemistry"
"It is as remarkable a 180-degree turn in a franchise the second time out as I can remember"
"Despite doing everything right..."

He's desperately fawning over the thing, and he's done similar in another column or two recently. Which is fine, he's certainly entitled to his opinion, I'm glad the movie worked for him even if it won't work for me. But based on the wide/general consensus he seems to be vastly overstating this movie's virtues, and comes across as downright emotional about it. Which, for me, cuts into his objectivity a bit... which is strange because the rest of his message it pretty well based in facts and logic, but oh well?

The writer's general thoughts on OOTS match up with pretty much everything I've heard/read from anyone other than some hardcore fans here.

Really? Because I've seen tons of fiercely negative reviews/reactions all over the place.

neatoman
06-07-2016, 07:32 AM
After thinking about it I came to a conclusion as to how using the Fred Wolf cartoon as a blueprint for this movie might have been it's downfall, albeit hardly the only reason, the reason nostalgia doesn't seem to work here:

It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.

chrisdude
06-07-2016, 07:52 AM
After thinking about it I came to a conclusion as to how using the Fred Wolf cartoon as a blueprint for this movie might have been it's downfall, albeit hardly the only reason, the reason nostalgia doesn't seem to work here:

It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.It all might've worked had it not been for the first movie. Imagine the hype there could of been, had all these Fred wolf elements been in the first film's trailers.

ZariusTwo
06-07-2016, 07:56 AM
It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.

Oh, so we're calling people who enjoyed the movie "juvenile" and have the mentality of little kids now are we?

Thanks for proving most people against this movie and it's fans have acted way more juvenile than most little kids.:roll:

The poll shows a lot of people enjoyed it, so I guess that means we're all "juvenile" to you.

neatoman
06-07-2016, 08:42 AM
Oh, so we're calling people who enjoyed the movie "juvenile" and have the mentality of little kids now are we?

Thanks for proving most people against this movie and it's fans have acted way more juvenile than most little kids.:roll:

The poll shows a lot of people enjoyed it, so I guess that means we're all "juvenile" to you.

It was a joke and I was obviously referring to the movie itself, but clearly you have shown yourself incapable of responding to criticism of this movie in a civil manner on previous occasions, so I can understand this childish response from you. The impression I have of you right now is that you're exactly the kind of person who would feel insecure about their own maturity.

What I meant was that the movie itself is juvenile and looked like it wasn't even remotely intended for adults in any other way than the nostalgia elements, so trying to market this movie towards adults failed because it's fundamentally not the kind of movie most adults are interested in.

Fanservice is a cheap trick, that's why a huge portion people here liked it but they still didn't make a good movie as far as anyone outside the TMNT is concerned. Putting Bebop and Rocksteady in a bad movie doesn't make it a good movie somehow, it just makes it a bad movie with Bebop and Rocksteady in it.

Zak The Neutrino
06-07-2016, 09:38 AM
Con: We have to watch another origin story again.

As long as it's not an origin story where the turtles are April's pets and she drops them down the sewer I'm ok with that.

Mulder
06-07-2016, 10:23 AM
It didn't earn 500 million, it scratched it's way over 400 million.

NinjaPug
06-07-2016, 10:30 AM
The failure of the 2nd movie is tied to the 1st movie though. I've said it before but it's tough to build something on a weak foundation. People didn't want to see a sequel to the 2014 movie. Blind nostalgia only gets you so far.

I also wouldn't call the 2014 a financial success either since they barely broke even on it according to reports.

samxsteal
06-07-2016, 10:31 AM
If this movie is seen as a failure, consider this;

-The first movie, which was hated even more, was a financial success.

-the movie with more turtle screen time, and OT elements, was a financial failure and box office bomb. Listening to the most vocal fans failed them.

-do any of you seriously think their first reaction to fix things this time is going to be a faithful mirage adaptation, rather than just going back to what earned them 500 million the last time?

Think about it.
Exactly lol

Foombamaroom
06-07-2016, 10:40 AM
If this movie is seen as a failure, consider this;

-The first movie, which was hated even more, was a financial success.

-the movie with more turtle screen time, and OT elements, was a financial failure and box office bomb. Listening to the most vocal fans failed them.

-do any of you seriously think their first reaction to fix things this time is going to be a faithful mirage adaptation, rather than just going back to what earned them 500 million the last time?

Think about it.

You're joking right?
Of COURSE the first movie made more money because there was a sense of mystery to it. The mystery of whether or not it'd be good or not. People had hope. And then, that hope was shattered by the April O'Neil movie.

They listened to fans for the second film (More Turtles, less April, Bebop/Rocksteady/Krang) and it came back to bite them in the ass because they screwed up that badly for the first film. They were banking on Bebop and Rocksteady being seat-fillers, but it seems that people don't want to go pay just for nostalgia.



Anywho, the only actual con I can think of for a reboot (unless it's worse than these movies) is the fact that I really like the actors for the Turtles. I saw OOTS the other day (My friend was kind enough to take me, given that I didn't want to pay these bastards.), and quite frankly, those Turtle actors are really good. Everything else was either 'meh' or 'somewhat acceptable', though. The movie's god-tier compared to the first one, though. It's still bad, but it's like it's self-aware that it's bad. "That's how I roll. That's how you roll." Someone was paid to write this.

But on the upside, maybe they could get actual teenagers to play/voice the Turtles. It'd make it sound more authentic.

beeshaw
06-07-2016, 10:55 AM
Anywho, the only actual con I can think of for a reboot (unless it's worse than these movies) is the fact that I really like the actors for the Turtles. I saw OOTS the other day (My friend was kind enough to take me, given that I didn't want to pay these bastards.), and quite frankly, those Turtle actors are really good. Everything else was either 'meh' or 'somewhat acceptable', though.

Same. They've been the lone bright spot in both movies. I'd like to see those 4 (6 I guess since I did enjoy Bebop and Rocksteady) continue, but do another soft reboot and get back to basics. Make it street level. Give us some actual fight scenes.

Krutch
06-07-2016, 11:44 AM
There's a big reason why it wasn't a financial success that most people aren't talking about. Aside from it not being a good movie, kids didn't like it the first time out. This wasn't a movie they watched over and over on Netflix. It was a movie they'd watch once and usually get distracted with something else halfway through. Parents see this, and so when the sequel comes out, they have no reason to shell out the bucks to take them to a movie their kids care for the first time around.

Then there's the whole issue of teenagers to adults simply not liking the movie.

I do think if OOTS was the first movie out the gate, it would have been a much larger success than the first one. It's pacing, humour, and action would have kept the kids entertained while all the Fred Wolf pandering would have appeased the adults.

As far as Cons go... well, someones gotta be looking at trends.

TMNT II Secret of the Ooze underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT III underperformed...
TMNT (2007) underperformed...
TMNT (2014) underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT OOTS underperformed..

..and none of them are critical hits.

At some point someones gonna start believing TMNT works best just as a TV franchise that can move toys by itself and the big movie investment isn't quite worth it. I know some people want different things, whether it be an adaptation of Mirage, IDW, 2k3... but in order for these things to eventaully happen, the franchise needs to show it can still pull in money.

It's not rocket science, guys. The more successful the franchise, the longer legs it gets, the more chances it gets to make the version you want to see. So while the Platinum Dunes Turtles are sooooo far away from the Turtles movie I'd like to see, I hope it succeeds enough to warrant the franchise getting another look.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-07-2016, 11:47 AM
While this movie may be making less at the box office, I'm willing to bet it's making more merch sales than the first movie... 'cause B&R, duh. :trolleye:

I mean, those Bebop and Rocksteady action figures look pretty great; I'd rather buy those than the Nick versions. The Turtles are, of course, atrocious. Same for Shredder. Nick versions all the way.

Zak The Neutrino
06-07-2016, 11:55 AM
There's a big reason why it wasn't a financial success that most people aren't talking about. Aside from it not being a good movie, kids didn't like it the first time out. This wasn't a movie they watched over and over on Netflix. It was a movie they'd watch once and usually get distracted with something else halfway through. Parents see this, and so when the sequel comes out, they have no reason to shell out the bucks to take them to a movie their kids care for the first time around.

Then there's the whole issue of teenagers to adults simply not liking the movie.

I do think if OOTS was the first movie out the gate, it would have been a much larger success than the first one. It's pacing, humour, and action would have kept the kids entertained while all the Fred Wolf pandering would have appeased the adults.

As far as Cons go... well, someones gotta be looking at trends.

TMNT II Secret of the Ooze underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT III underperformed...
TMNT (2007) underperformed...
TMNT (2014) underperformed, but still warranted a sequel...
TMNT OOTS underperformed..

..and none of them are critical hits.

At some point someones gonna start believing TMNT works best just as a TV franchise that can move toys by itself and the big movie investment isn't quite worth it. I know some people want different things, whether it be an adaptation of Mirage, IDW, 2k3... but in order for these things to eventaully happen, the franchise needs to show it can still pull in money.

It's not rocket science, guys. The more successful the franchise, the longer legs it gets, the more chances it gets to make the version you want to see. So while the Platinum Dunes Turtles are sooooo far away from the Turtles movie I'd like to see, I hope it succeeds enough to warrant the franchise getting another look.

There is some truth to this. My son hated the 2014 movie. He loved OOTS. He was interested and laughing almost the whole movie. However if I hadn't been a big TMNT fan myself I may have ignored his asking to go see this after seeing the trailers on Nick. Although without him I may have waited to see this until it hit DVD.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-07-2016, 12:06 PM
It's basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.

1. If you support the film franchise, you continue to get terrible movies.

2. If you don't support the film franchise, you run the risk of never getting big-screen TMNT again in the current film-going generation.

Myself, I do honestly prefer the second option...

Andrew NDB
06-07-2016, 12:19 PM
TMNT II Secret of the Ooze underperformed

Did it? I see it ranked as the 12th highest grossing movie of the year.

Krutch
06-07-2016, 12:44 PM
Secret of the Ooze had double the budget and pulled in about half of what the first one did, so yeah, I'd say that probably fell below expectations.

It also played in more theatres than any other movie did that year to boot.

Autbot_Benz
06-07-2016, 05:58 PM
Cons

1.Karai Wasted again
2. Shredder not fighting
3. more splinter would have been nice. I kinda wish he had an opening monolouge like in the 2014 movie.

sdp
06-07-2016, 10:16 PM
Well I think for Andrew having TMNT 2 be inspired by the OT is a huge pro for you. Here you have the two things you hate being mixed into one interpretation so next movie version of the turtles won't have either.

Andrew NDB
06-07-2016, 11:43 PM
Well I think for Andrew having TMNT 2 be inspired by the OT is a huge pro for you. Here you have the two things you hate being mixed into one interpretation so next movie version of the turtles won't have either.

Very true. I'm very, very OK with both being dropped into a barrel and napalmed simultaneously.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
06-07-2016, 11:50 PM
Listening to the most vocal fans failed them.


Listening to the 'Most vocal Fans'? Which ones were those?

Because they weren't listening to me, my friends, and other folks on here.

We wanted Turtles that didn't look like crap, used Martial Arts, had real/concrete relationships between each other, didn't want Megan Fox (should have just recast her), didn't want fart/dick jokes, the characters to go to the Grown Up Table instead of stuck at the kiddie table/kiddie pool, and more.

And we're the 'most vocal' fans.

They didn't do that. They didn't 'listen'.

So which ones were you referring to? To the people who were complaining about not getting Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, and that's it?

If that's the case, then maybe they listened to the wrong 'vocal fans'.

Andrew NDB
06-08-2016, 12:02 AM
So which ones were you referring to? To the people who were complaining about not getting Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, and that's it?

Pretty much just those. And Angry Nintendo Nerd and Black Nerd and probably Ivey (no offense) and taking that as our spokespeople.

Allio
06-08-2016, 06:13 AM
Cons:
3rd movie will be Megafox the movie again.

Sabacooza
06-08-2016, 06:37 AM
When they makes these movies, why not have some kind of poll to see what the fans really want? Do some actual research.

chrisdude
06-08-2016, 08:30 PM
When they makes these movies, why not have some kind of poll to see what the fans really want? Do some actual research.The poll results would've been:

1. Rocksteady and Bebop
2. Krang
3. A Turtle Van that shoots manhole covers

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 01:17 AM
Did the Angry Nerd and Black Nerd like the movie? I kinda see the Black Nerd liking anything TMNT related, but what did James have to say?

Andrew NDB
06-09-2016, 01:20 AM
Did the Angry Nerd and Black Nerd like the movie? I kinda see the Black Nerd liking anything TMNT related, but what did James have to say?

I'm not sure, but if he can't possibly say anything bad about it. It's like TPTB watched any one of his TMNT-related videos (I've seen them) and gifted him exactly what he asked for.

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 01:32 AM
I'm not sure, but if he can't possibly say anything bad about it. It's like TPTB watched any one of his TMNT-related videos (I've seen them) and gifted him exactly what he asked for.

True... but I'm sure he would have wanted Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang in a GOOD movie.


This is kind of why I shook my head when I heard they were going to be in a sequel. Because I have waited forever to see those 3 in a TMNT movie. Just.... not... THIS movie. Not anything that had any relation whatsoever with the first Bay movie. Then they had Judith Hoag, again, she deserved to be in a better movie, and from what I heard, they ended up cutting her scenes out completely?

I honestly thought this movie was gonna blow everything else away just because of those three. I honestly thought the movie could have sucked twice as many balls as the first one 'but... but... but.. Bebop and Rocksteady!' I guess I'm surprised so many people saw through that.

I honestly expected all the crazies that so desperately defended the first movie to the high heavens to watch this one and make it earn twice as much money as the first one. I was seriously expecting Avengers numbers just for Bebop and Rocksteady alone. I guess a lot of them finally opened their eyes, or didn't fall for the same trick twice.

Andrew NDB
06-09-2016, 01:36 AM
'but... but... but.. Bebop and Rocksteady!' I guess I'm surprised so many people saw through that.

You know how you see all those posts on FB, usually from... a particular demographic about, "OMG, I saw a man not honk at another car for cutting him off... #faithinhumanityrestored!!!"? Well, this is a bit like that, but for me. Impressive.

Powder
06-09-2016, 01:43 AM
Well, Mike Matei (The Robin to AVGN's Batman) has been bashing it on Twitter from the get-go, but I don't think he's seen it yet. Not sure about James but the two of them are usually on par opinion-wise.

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 01:44 AM
Well, Mike Matei (The Robin to AVGN's Batman) has been bashing it on Twitter from the get-go, but I don't think he's seen it yet. Not sure about James but the two of them are usually on par opinion-wise.

Hmm now I'm even more curious to what AVGN thinks.

Andrew NDB
06-09-2016, 01:55 AM
I'm surprised no glowing review from Harry Knowles yet. He's usually the first guy on the block bought with "pwesents."

Powder
06-09-2016, 02:27 AM
Hmm now I'm even more curious to what AVGN thinks.

Wonder no more, speaking of the devil:

dyZjN6tHf24

Andrew NDB
06-09-2016, 02:39 AM
Wonder no more, speaking of the devil:

dyZjN6tHf24

Skipped around a bit. Yep. Big thank youuu for Bebop, Rocksteady, and Kraaang! Big ZOMGs on this. And then they sort of putz around and lament the 1990 movie.

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 02:40 AM
Yeah, I'll watch it after I seen the movie to avoid spoilers. But the general point is that he loved it?

Andrew NDB
06-09-2016, 02:46 AM
Yeah, I'll watch it after I seen the movie to avoid spoilers. But the general point is that he loved it?

Yeah. Krang, Krang, Krang just like I expected.

TrickOrTreater
06-09-2016, 03:28 AM
Wonder no more, speaking of the devil:

dyZjN6tHf24

He's already working on Monster Madness?!

F*ck yes!

neatoman
06-09-2016, 03:48 AM
Wonder no more, speaking of the devil:

dyZjN6tHf24

This is kind of sad. You can tell they are underwhelmed, not that they didn't like the movie but that it didn't really live up to their expectations from when they were kids. They even admitted it's actually mediocre ignoring the nostalgia elements and that they're probably never going to rewatch it ever again.

chrisdude
06-09-2016, 05:06 AM
Funny.i had just watched this over breakfast. They weren't blown away, but I think they had realistic expectations. This movie was really about putting that cartoon on the big screen. And they were right to point out that it wasn't meant to be some classic film we'd be watching in twenty years. And, really, if you consider that it draws nearly all is inspiration from that show,, so much of what they do makes sense. I would think one could appreciate that, seeing as how so much of that has been purposely ignored in all the turtles movies. It's as lot of fans'' favorite stuff, or all they know of the franchise, and they've been waiting forever to see it

Andrew NDB
06-10-2016, 04:52 PM
This is kind of sad. You can tell they are underwhelmed, not that they didn't like the movie but that it didn't really live up to their expectations from when they were kids. They even admitted it's actually mediocre ignoring the nostalgia elements and that they're probably never going to rewatch it ever again.

The whole "Be careful what you wish for" thing.

Drose18
06-16-2016, 08:34 AM
Con: We have to watch another origin story again.

We didnt really watch one this time

myconius
06-16-2016, 10:09 AM
even though OotS did poorly i still want to see them spin out another sequel from this franchise.

but instead of the CGI characters they could have the actors come dressed up like this?
it'd save em a TON on budget!!!

http://www.auchatbotte.eu/public/img/medium/TMNT.jpg

think about it??? since Shredder was frozen in the last film maybe they could re-cast Vanilla Ice to play him???

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF-Dancing-dance-moves-Vanilla-Ice-white-GIF.gif