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View Full Version : To fellow OT fans; where did it go wrong?


Panda_Kahn_fan
06-08-2016, 09:44 AM
Silly question, next!

Mulder
06-08-2016, 10:27 AM
I'm a fan of OT Krang so I'll go here. Krang has utterly no personality here beyond "Conquering backstabber" he's also barely in the movie and feels utterly shoe-horned in.

graphic_content
06-08-2016, 10:41 AM
The irony to me is...all the reviewers I've read and watched have talked about how Bebop and Rocksteady were spot-on...a perfect match to their OT counterparts...

...and having recently binged watched season-1 , I gotta say thats not at all true.

Bebop and Rocksteady, were never the smartest pair of henchmen, but they were never farting in one another faces, making jokes about their *ick size, or over the top, obnoxiously loud.

Bay used them, as he uses uses all comic relief. Anyone remember the twins from Transformers-2, they are basically interchangeable with B&R.

And I for one, did NOT like Brad Garret's voice as Krang - it sounded like he was trying to ride the line between OT Krang, and something more deep and menacing. He would have been better off leaning to one side or the other. Be funny, or be mean - pick one.

Though not a popular opinion, I actually like helmet-less Shredder - Brian Tee IMO, did a great job, BUT the writers did not. Krang early blink and you'll miss intro, followed by Shredder easily accepting his plan with no understanding of what or who Krang is was a WEAK way to tie them together.

In the OT, you came in with them already having an established working history together, so you can just accept their back and forth, but here? No.

Casey, as one of the Producers admitted, was forced in by Bay. He wasn't part of the original storyline, and that was clear, you could remove his scenes, and the movie wouldn't change one bit.

Plus - what was with all the swearing - I know this may not be a popular opinion, but a lot of swearing was inserted into a supposed family friendly film...and a majority of it, came from Casey. And some of their song choices was also questionable (Rump Shaker, really?!). Either be a family friendly, or not, pick a side.

It bothers me as a fan of the OT, that this movie, though enjoyable (entirely due to the actors portraying the Turtles), that:

1-they, in an effort to course correct from the first film, attempted to throw so many nostalgic elements at the audience that major elements got lost, and opportunities were missed.
2-Bay, once again, forced his hand, and demanding certain things be in the film...Megan Fox admitted that it was Bay who insisted on that whole Catholic-Schoolgirl sequence.
3-and this part angers me the most-the storyline was written around the action pieces they wanted to see. The writers themselves admitted during an interview with AOL that their priority after the success of movie-1 was to top the snow chase sequence, and once they decided on what they wanted to see, they fit a story around that.

SOOOooOOOooooOO basically, they crammed in OT elements to fit a story that fit an action sequence, and called it a movie?!?

When you write like that...things are bound to go wrong, and be mishandled.

Did I enjoy it, yes? In the, its a weak, by the numbers, movie, but has fun elements kind of way. I cant help but wonder, what this could have been, in the hands of better writers, and a producer who is not Michael Bay, as his fingerprints are seen all over it, AGAIN.

Ceres
06-08-2016, 11:07 AM
The problem is Michael Bay, every movie that has his name written on it is automatically frowned and hated upon(at least in these forums). Especially after the first movie (which i still havent seen)all people who saw it were biased on its quality how bad it was etc. And this continued for the second movie.It was not under a promising star from the beginning.

Overshadowed by the first part(which got abhorrent reactions from members here), OOTS had a hard stand from announcing until now where its shown in theaters.

The trailers i saw so far were good and i enjoyed it to see B and R and Krang as well(duh). I will go in this movie without any bias because i havent seen the first movie so i have no idea what to imagine(i havent watched a single Bay film for that record so yeah...)

The few people who liked it so far make me hopeful that all hate for the first movie asides they were willing to give another Life Action TMNT movie a chance.


What i think they should have made different is one the voice actor for Krang(which is really not fitting for him), and Casey Jones being a police officer(i enjoyed the portrayal of him in the 90`s movie, there i could imagine to look a Casey Jones but not Amells performance) Oh and Megan Fox of course...Get Judith Hoag damn.

ZariusTwo
06-08-2016, 11:51 AM
There was a problem?:P

I kid, I kid. Much as I enjoyed the film, there were problems.


It felt very much like a "dad at your wedding" take, i.e what an older person thinks OT fans want to see in a TMNT movie. A general lack of adding in more captivating character motivations, if only for the sake of a better picture, everyone is out to conquer the world JUST BECAUSE, and as a result, there is no reason to care if Shredder sides with Krang or not, and you just sort of shrug when he takes enough stupid pills to get himself in the predicament he winds up in.

Baxter should have had more to do also. There should have been Mouser defences around the lair rather than yellow rods...something that brought out more of the insane twisted genius in him...of course, for the mousers to make a justified entry, you would need to involve Splinter more in the action. Splinter was pretty active in the OT episodes also.

Andrew NDB
06-08-2016, 11:52 AM
T0ghsoNE2Ig

IndigoErth
06-08-2016, 12:02 PM
If you take Bebop and Rocksteady and make them exaggerated, hyperactive, and a little crude per the 'norm' of 21st century characters... that's pretty much what we got.

Krang and the Technodrome didn't amount to much and might have been best left mostly to a third film as a part 2 of this. The villain plot line is really weak and terribly anticlimactic.

Imo, those that mainly just go for the Turtles above all else, with hope that this is an improvement for them, will probably feel happier about it afterward. Which was the case for me; I really like their part of it, though the rest of the film is lacking in places.

CyberCubed
06-08-2016, 12:44 PM
The movie is exactly what OT fans would want out of a Turtle movie (aside from the hulking turtles with nostrils but that couldn't be helped).

Cryomancer
06-08-2016, 01:26 PM
Be funny, or be mean - pick one.

This is basically my take on these movies. They try to do two opposite things, and do neither well. If they wanna be OT style movies, fine, do that, but do it all the way.

Utrommaniac
06-08-2016, 01:53 PM
Krang: Hi! You work for me now. Collect my stuff.
Shredder:...Okay.

This is the one big problem in the interpretation of the Krang-Shredder dynamic. They meet for about one minute, Shredder just immediately takes a f***ing gigantic brain beast with a grain of salt, then is surprised when the guy he barely knows backstabs him. We might not know how OT Krang and Shredder met. But PD Shredder makes OT Shredder look brilliant in comparison when he trusts Krang right away. OT Shredder might be an incompetent idiot, but he was smart enough not to trust Krang when they met. It took years for them to trust each other mutually. OT Shredder would not be surprised by betrayal. In fact, Krang was more surprised by Shredder betraying him!

Then there was the issue of Krang not even having a backstory. Why did he want the Earth, besides as a plaything? Where did the Technodrome come from? Why is he alone? Why the hell is he physically attached to the machine at the spin(al cord? Does he even have a spine?) Also, why is he just a Commander? Where is his army? Who are his superiors? WHERE are his superiors?

Everyone complains about how Shredder is never referred to as "Oroku Saki", but his meeting with Krang would probably go just a touch better if Krang addressed him as "Saki", thus bringing Shredder so say "Oh, you know my name". It would probably work a little better if they established that they'd already met, since they act like they have anyway.

Mulder
06-08-2016, 02:19 PM
The thing about Shredder never being called Oroku Saki was weird but they did give a small easter egg when Casmell looks at Shredder's rap-sheet. Oroku Saki is written as his real name on it.

Powder
06-08-2016, 02:21 PM
It's poorly written. It's that simple. Most issues come down to that main point.

If all you go into this wanting is the OT fanfare, you'll get it, & while it will look good (mileage may vary), it'll be otherwise horrible. You'll enjoy Bebop & Rocksteady, but the other elements will leave you disappointed one way or another. For example, you might love Krang from design to voice, but you'll be bummed he's not in it enough or too easily defeated or not backed by an army of rock soldiers, etc.

IndigoErth
06-08-2016, 02:28 PM
Krang: Hi! You work for me now. Collect my stuff.
Shredder:...Okay.
:tlol:

Shame that Shedder's role in the film can basically be summed up so easily.


Not to mention that Krang somehow knew all about Shredder already. What? I mean, sure, lets not even give a reason why. (Yes, Shredder, you've apparently been stalked by an alien brain monster who knows all about your fetish for taking over the world and he wants in because... Uh...)

There's also Donnie bringing up info on Krang, easily knowing his name and other details. (Google: Universe Edition?) That might work in the context of the old cartoon, but doesn't fit well in a film that comes across as set in the real world with mutants who, while different, are still 'normal' flesh and blood Earthlings with no prior contact or knowledge of extraterrestrial beings.

I prefer my plot holes to be minor or vague enough to only strike me later when I'm thinking about the film, not immediately as it happens. The two points I just mentioned were in the immediate category for me.

graphic_content
06-08-2016, 03:49 PM
:tlol:

Shame that Shedder's role in the film can basically be summed up so easily.


Not to mention that Krang somehow knew all about Shredder already. What? I mean, sure, lets not even give a reason why. (Yes, Shredder, you've apparently been stalked by an alien brain monster who knows all about your fetish for taking over the world and he wants in because... Uh...)

There's also Donnie bringing up info on Krang, easily knowing his name and other details. (Google: Universe Edition?) That might work in the context of the old cartoon, but doesn't fit well in a film that comes across as set in the real world with mutants who, while different, are still 'normal' flesh and blood Earthlings with no prior contact or knowledge of extraterrestrial beings.

I prefer my plot holes to be minor or vague enough to only strike me later when I'm thinking about the film, not immediately as it happens. The two points I just mentioned were in the immediate category for me.

I love Donnie, but his tech is out of hand - his proton-pack is basically Jarvis without the Iron Man suit.

Galactus
06-09-2016, 10:07 PM
I count myself a fan of the 80s show even I criticize it a fair bit. Of course I've never really thought the show was necessarily the best foundation to build a movie on mostly because a lot of their concepts and characters can be easily screwed up by the kind of thinking that Zarius described.

Putting aside issues of tone there's not much of mythology to build on with further sequels. I mean the movie was very true to the old show in the sense that Krang tasks Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady to steal something that will get the Technodrome to NYC; That's pretty much 90% of episodes right there. Great...what next? Krang can invade again but surely they are going to need new hook and frankly they've blown through their big draw characters all in one movie (and it turns out they were not such a huge draw after all).

I've argued before that hinting at Krang but saving him for a third might have been a better approach and I still think that's true but honestly I don't find the movie too full in this aspect. It's needless crap like having three mcguffins to hunt down and Casey's pointless origin that take up time that perhaps we could have had a battle with Shredder or fleshing out some motivation for his actions or more time with Splinter.

TrickOrTreater
06-10-2016, 03:05 AM
Where did it go wrong?

Probably at the attempt to Michael Bay-ify the original cartoon.

Sighphi
06-10-2016, 04:36 AM
Krang: Hi! You work for me now. Collect my stuff.
Shredder:...Okay.

This is the one big problem in the interpretation of the Krang-Shredder dynamic. They meet for about one minute, Shredder just immediately takes a f***ing gigantic brain beast with a grain of salt, then is surprised when the guy he barely knows backstabs him. We might not know how OT Krang and Shredder met. But PD Shredder makes OT Shredder look brilliant in comparison when he trusts Krang right away. OT Shredder might be an incompetent idiot, but he was smart enough not to trust Krang when they met. It took years for them to trust each other mutually. OT Shredder would not be surprised by betrayal. In fact, Krang was more surprised by Shredder betraying him!

You get teleported in front of an alien that knows a whole mess of info and has a bunch of high tech all around him... you going to say no to him?


Then there was the issue of Krang not even having a backstory. Why did he want the Earth, besides as a plaything? Where did the Technodrome come from? Why is he alone? Why the hell is he physically attached to the machine at the spin(al cord? Does he even have a spine?) Also, why is he just a Commander? Where is his army? Who are his superiors? WHERE are his superiors?

1. Conquering alien. What more do you need?

2. It came from T-drome R Us. You are really asking where the alien got his alien machine?

3. Because they spend most of the time on the other two mutants. They didnt have anything left to setup more of them. And was it needed?

4.Cause he is a little alien brain thing.

5. He must be part of a space military force.

6. Machines.

7. Captain Krang, Rear Admiral Krang Lower, Rear Admiral Krang Upper, Vice Admiral Krang, Admiral Chief of Space Ops Krang, Fleet Admiral Krang. BTW, why is this necessary to know now?

8. Doing their jobs.

Everyone complains about how Shredder is never referred to as "Oroku Saki", but his meeting with Krang would probably go just a touch better if Krang addressed him as "Saki", thus bringing Shredder so say "Oh, you know my name". It would probably work a little better if they established that they'd already met, since they act like they have anyway.

Krang obviously knows a lot about the planet since they have been trying to come to it for a bit.

Technogeek29
06-10-2016, 05:13 AM
Ugh do me a solid and never write anything.

Aaronardo
06-10-2016, 09:05 AM
WOW that was a lot of assumptions. When you write, you live by the philosophy "show, don't tell." But what you just did was neither of those things. Damn.

Etsyturtle2
06-10-2016, 09:12 AM
The whole movie was awesome except for krangs voice and they ruined his android body

MikeandRaph87
06-10-2016, 09:18 AM
Where did it go wrong? It was an improvement over the previous film. Issues I had with it? Megan Fox was still portraying April O'Neil and Michael Bay was still the showrunner. The catholic school girl sequence was stupid(Michael Bay). I prefer the original choice of Fred Armisen to voice Krang opposed to Brad Garett. The reason is Krang has a lighter voice like Fred's while Brad's trademark is his deep baritone. That is not Krang. Also, while Shredder was gullible to follow Krang's request I feel that they could have briefly worked together in a fight against he Turtles instead of Krang freezing Shredder over like he is a lab experiment. That was disappointing not getting to see The Shredder in action. Those were my specific issues with the film, but like I said it was a good film. It just could have been better. I liked it more than Turtles III, TMNT and the 2014 film. The characters involved helped the movie for me.

myconius
06-10-2016, 07:07 PM
as much as i enjoyed the movie (yeah, i enjoyed it)
too many problems followed from the first film.
-no Hamato Yoshi
-no real reason for a feud between Shredder and the Turtles

making Casey Jones a cop???
that was just weird!

slingtheory
06-10-2016, 11:13 PM
What puzzles me about this whole mess isn't the fact a bad movie isn't doing well. What puzzles me is these are the things everybody said they wanted. The first one was just as bad, yet everyone went to see it. The only conclusion I can draw is the people who whined for Fred Wolf elements were turned off by film 1#'s horrible plot and characters, and refused to come back and be tricked again.

I finally saw this thing, and it's basically what everybody said it was- an extended OT episode, with Micheal Bay-isims sprinkled in.
Define everybody. Most of the people I remember talking to in 2014 were asking for a more coherent plot with three dimensional characters and a focus on martial arts action. Starring turtles who were less brock lesnar more bruce lee. One look at the trailers and you get the sense that none of that is in this movie. Truth is they didn't actually fix any of the real complaints from last time.They just threw in popular characters and elements from the height of turtle mania and called it a day and then they went on to market it as such. People went see the first because it was the first live action film in 20 something years. Even if they didn't like the look of the thing a lot of fans followed the old saying of don't judge a book by its cover.but after you've read the first chapter it's perfectly OK to put the book down if you don't like where the story is headed.

Sighphi
06-11-2016, 02:38 PM
Define everybody. Most of the people I remember talking to in 2014 were asking for a more coherent plot with three dimensional characters and a focus on martial arts action. Starring turtles who were less brock lesnar more bruce lee. One look at the trailers and you get the sense that none of that is in this movie. Truth is they didn't actually fix any of the real complaints from last time.They just threw in popular characters and elements from the height of turtle mania and called it a day and then they went on to market it as such. People went see the first because it was the first live action film in 20 something years. Even if they didn't like the look of the thing a lot of fans followed the old saying of don't judge a book by its cover.but after you've read the first chapter it's perfectly OK to put the book down if you don't like where the story is headed.

I'll agree that there wasnt any ninja fighting scenes with the turtles but the other thing were upgraded. The plot here is clear and makes sense within the world and the turtles do a bit of growing up.

They were not going to completely redo the designs but they did tone it down on the accessories.

ranger_scout
06-11-2016, 02:48 PM
This video on Youtube list what worked in this film and what kind of went wrong. After seeing the film for a second time i kind of agree with what they are saying here. WARNING, THERE ARE SPOILERS:

LB5JnzDSmRs

Coola Yagami
06-11-2016, 02:50 PM
It was a sequel to the first. Honestly, with all-new redesigned Turtles, 100% nothing to do what the first one, a new April, and a better plot... this could have been the summer movie of the year.

FlawedCoil82
06-15-2016, 12:02 AM
Well, I realize that I am late to the hate party. But I finally now just got to see this movie (thankfully with a free ticket that came with the latest DVD). Wow.....what a disappointment. Apart from getting to see Bebop and Rocksteady, I can not name anything else that I enjoyed. WHERE WERE THE FIGHTS?!?! I wanted to see NINJA turtles fighting against Foot NINJAS. Completely missed opportunity. These latest movies make the turtles so damn huge that no human (ninja or otherwise) has half a prayer against them. Even Shredder looks like he would be defeated by just one of these gargantuan turtle beasts sitting on him!

And speaking of Shredder, is there a legal clause in these TMNT movie contracts which flat-out forbids the film makers to show a good, lengthy fight scene between the Turtles and Shredder?! The first movie had about 30 seconds of goosebump inducing fighting when each turtle went up against him one on one. The 2nd movie was a joke with Shredder. 3rd movie he was MIA. 4th movie he was MIA. 5th movie he was a Transformer that showed decent action in a few 7 second bursts when we had "spare time" to waste away from April's all-important adventure and now this movie where he was as threatening as a college student who Cosplays as Shredder. Bloody Hell you clueless movie studios GIVE US TMNT FIGHTING SHREDDER!! MARTIAL ARTS AGAINST MARTIAL ARTS!! Why on God's green Earth that is such an overwhelmingly impossible task for movie studios to grasp, I will never understand. :trolleye: Lack of fights is exactly what chased me away from the OT in the first place. This movie did exactly the same thing.

One other question.....why were they calling Oliver Queen "Casey Jones"? I didnt see Casey anywhere in this movie except for when he wore the mask for about 34 seconds.

Candy Kappa
06-17-2016, 08:18 AM
Why ask that question to "FW fans" specifically, cause this was not a FW adaption.

Sure, it had B&R, Baxter with a bowtie and Krang that for the most part looked like a Krang I guess, but the android body was trash and did not invoke any familiarity with how Krang looked in the show, nor did he act or sound like his original show counterpart.