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View Full Version : Why get all the anger at Michael Bay, though?


Andrew NDB
06-09-2016, 02:53 AM
Neither he nor Platinum Dunes ever sought out TMNT as something to exploit. They're hired guns. Why is everyone mad at him/them? If the rights holders to, say, The Crow, sought out Joel Schumacher to do their Crow reboot... should we really get mad at Joel Schumacher for mucking it up? Should he just say no, I don't want your millions of dollars? Would you do that?

Just saying. Let's call a spade a spade and get mad at the right people.

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 03:02 AM
Who are the right people in this case?

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 03:12 AM
Wrong?

I've put up the video 3 times. Fuller, of PD chased down, and secured the license. He then convinced Bay to put his name on it, to add cache to the project.

Not here say, it's straight from Fullers mouth in a talk he gave to a film school back in 2011.
I think the video's been yanked... But I put it up in 2014.

PD is responsible, and Bay is an owner of PD. They explicitly stated that their entire business model is exploiting brand recognition.

That's entirely the intent.

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 03:16 AM
I wonder though... if the movie only has Bay's name on it and nothing else.... was it crammed with so many Micheal Bay-isms? Honestly, they could have just said the movie was filmed, directed and produced by Micheal Bay (even if he didn't) and we wouldn't have known the difference. This has Bay's style all over it. Or did they... for whatever reason... feel the need to 'Bay it up' once he put his name on it?

Powder
06-09-2016, 03:17 AM
At the very least there was confirmation of Bay being responsible for the militarization of The Foot last time. That's reason enough right there.

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 03:19 AM
I wish that video was still around... It should be searchable here...

CyberCubed
06-09-2016, 03:20 AM
Isn't Michael Bay the one who wanted the Turtles to be aliens from space and Eric Sachs as Shredder? I mean how the hell do you come up with that stuff?

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 03:26 AM
Isn't Michael Bay the one who wanted the Turtles to be aliens from space and Eric Sachs as Shredder? I mean how the hell do you come up with that stuff?

I can say this much, Bay's gaff, on stage, where he let the alien bit slip, was because he'd been briefed on TMNT, but not directly involved.

Though the aliens thing was probably him. He likes aliens, it's his thing. He's a big space nerd.

CyberCubed
06-09-2016, 03:27 AM
I also want to know whose idea was it to put nostrils on the Turtles.

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 03:28 AM
I also want to know whose idea was it to put nostrils on the Turtles.

That was all me.

Here it is, a link to Fuller (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=48782&highlight=Brad+fuller) talking about what they had planned for TMNT

ToTheNines
06-09-2016, 04:24 AM
Isn't Michael Bay the one who wanted the Turtles to be aliens from space and Eric Sachs as Shredder? I mean how the hell do you come up with that stuff?

I know you hate Eric Sacks more than anyone, but he's by far a better concept than Colonel Schrader, who was the original Blue Door villain.

Shark_Blade
06-09-2016, 05:06 AM
Meh there's absolutely no reason to be angry. If it wasn't for Bay and co. we'd never have any films at all. No other producers would approach or even be interested in this franchise but they did. :)

And I think they did great despite the flaws, just like all the other tmnt movies have flaws. Be grateful and count your blessings. If you don't like it, move along. There's other franchises to be invested in.

Technogeek29
06-09-2016, 05:23 AM
Meh there's absolutely no reason to be angry. If it wasn't for Bay and co. we'd never have any films at all. No other producers would approach or even be interested in this franchise but they did. :)

And I think they did great despite the flaws, just like all the other tmnt movies have flaws. Be grateful and count your blessings. If you don't like it, move along. There's other franchises to be invested in.

Wonderful,. That's like saying I rather have a broken arm than a broken leg. Yeah one is easier to manage but why would I want to break anything?

Shark_Blade
06-09-2016, 05:38 AM
Wonderful,. That's like saying I rather have a broken arm than a broken leg. Yeah one is easier to manage but why would I want to break anything?

I don't even understand your example or how it relates to anything.

Bry
06-09-2016, 06:53 AM
If it wasn't for Bay and co. we'd never have any films at all. No other producers would approach or even be interested in this franchise but they did. :)

Total nonsense. Studios and production companies are all about comic/nostalgia properties right now. If it wasn't Platinum Dunes, Paramount absolutely would have made movies with other people. They'd recently acquired the property, it was on the upswing, and they wanted to use it.

Realistically, the main reason Bay got the thing is because he was signing a new deal with Paramount and having another franchise under his umbrella sweetened the pot. Like Commenter 42's pointed out (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=48782&highlight=Brad+fuller), Fuller sought the property out purely to monetize the brand. Check out 10:10 here:

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Look at him talk: there is absolutely zero love there. He even seems slightly bored about it. (And considering how wildly different the actual movies turned out against how he described them, clearly his "vision" wasn't very strong in the first place.) And then watch the very end of the video. That spells out exactly how cynical an enterprise this was from the start.

Which, whatever... It's not his job to be a fan, and while it'd be nice, I dont expect it. It's his job to make good movies, which... he doesn't do either. It's his job to try to understand this property and deliver a stories that please fans and the general audience, as many as possible. Which he didn't do. And considering his tirade about fans being "haters" earlier, I can't say it gives me a great impression.

If you don't like it, move along. There's other franchises to be invested in.

I'll admit, I've gotten back into Dragon Ball in a big way since these movies started making me feel embarrassed to be a TMNT fan... :tlol:

The Deadman
06-09-2016, 08:31 AM
Go watch the Transformers movies and then you'll understand why people don't like Michael Bay.

NinjaPug
06-09-2016, 08:41 AM
I read the thread title and thought this was going to be directed at Brad Fuller and Andrew Form. Consider me disappointed it's not.

Yeah, Paramount/Viacom sucks for not bringing in better creative producers but this shitstain is all on PD. also, to echo what others have said PD definitely sought this franchise out. They thought it was an easy cash grab. It certainly wasn't because they care about the property.

Jester
06-09-2016, 09:07 AM
Isn't Michael Bay the one who wanted the Turtles to be aliens from space and Eric Sachs as Shredder? I mean how the hell do you come up with that stuff?

I was gonna say...he was at least a mouthpiece for that garbage.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
06-09-2016, 09:33 AM
Well THIS is a depressing thread.

Thank you to C42 and Bry for equipping us with further detailed information on this.

ToTheNines
06-09-2016, 10:09 AM
Buncha haters in here!

d_osborn
06-09-2016, 10:22 AM
Meh there's absolutely no reason to be angry. If it wasn't for Bay and co. we'd never have any films at all. No other producers would approach or even be interested in this franchise but they did. :)
That's completely incorrect. Galen Walker was already working on producing a new adaptation before the Nick buyout. Viacom laid out the money with the intentions of Paramount distributing a new TMNT movie-- PD didn't bring them the idea. It was part of the plan from day one. A supposedly REALLY good script was generated in 2009 by John Fusco, but PD sold Paramount on their pitch of using the Transformers formula.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE LEAK THE FUSCO SCRIPT! :lol:

IndigoErth
06-09-2016, 11:59 AM
Why? Because his finger prints are still all over this stuff and won't stay out of the way. As THE guy who can step in and say "No, I want you to do this instead" and they are expected to jump and obey (oBAY?) him, even if it's a stupid idea, then for better or worse he deserves just as much credit for his decisions as the writers do for theirs.

He forced them to include Casey in this. And while the audience would love to see Casey, he kind of obviously was insistent based on the character simply being a draw. But him forcing it to happen and forcing rewrites to work him in gave us a half-assed attempt at a character labeled as supposedly Casey.

The Deadman
06-09-2016, 12:03 PM
Wonderful,. That's like saying I rather have a broken arm than a broken leg. Yeah one is easier to manage but why would I want to break anything?

And he claims hes not a TMNT 2014 defender...oh okay.

I don't even understand your example or how it relates to anything.

He's saying it doesnt matter who breaks what, as long as it gets broken.

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 01:07 PM
That's completely incorrect. Galen Walker was already working on producing a new adaptation before the Nick buyout. Viacom laid out the money with the intentions of Paramount distributing a new TMNT movie-- PD didn't bring them the idea. It was part of the plan from day one. A supposedly REALLY good script was generated in 2009 by John Fusco, but PD sold Paramount on their pitch of using the Transformers formula.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE LEAK THE FUSCO SCRIPT! :lol:

PM it to me... I'll say plead the 5th.

C'mon, you KNOW you want to.

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 01:35 PM
Here's a fun Vanity Fair video.

I can say, they got a few things wrong, like, how much money a CG artist makes - they mistakenly attribute the departments budget with an individual...which is almost like saying the Waiter earned $8,500.00 that day, instead of saying "Restaurant", so yeah take most of the numbers as loose...

Percentage wise, per department, this is pretty much spot on. This doesn't include "points".

Oh, and notice there's no media attached. Marketing is another, 100m - which is why the break even point of any "blockbuster" is never cost of production.
(see also why BvS was a failure, and why PDMT2 will end the franchise for PD)


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Ramboraph4life aka Matt
06-09-2016, 02:14 PM
Didn't someone in another thread Just Mention that it was Michael Bay's idea to have Megan Fox in the 'schoolgirl' outfit in this new one?

Producers can get there say into the matter. They can go 'these are the boundaries that you need to fall into'...only those boundaries suck.

If someone thinks that Michael Bay has nothing to do with it, then they are delusional. Plain and simple. Why? One example...You really think he had nothing to do with Megan Fox being cast? Seriously?

And to folks like Shark Blade who go 'well, then there would be no movies'....I really hope they were joking. I really, truly do.

Because if they really think that, with the atomic bomb of releases for 'Comic Book Films' that we're in right now...that No One would think to make a new film based on a Big Time Phenomenon in the early 1990s (which on top of that were Based on Comic Books?)

Nostalgia is in (Jurassic World, a new Star Wars flick, constant remakes of 80s/90s films). Comic Book Films are in (Avengers, Deadpool, Captain America, Thor, even more X-Men films).

A Ninja Turtles flick would have been made regardless 100%. Only...we want Competent people who gave a crap about it. Not idiots who also produced the remakes to The Hitcher and so forth.

Bry
06-09-2016, 02:15 PM
Oh, and notice there's no media attached. Marketing is another, 100m - which is why the break even point of any "blockbuster" is never cost of production.
(see also why BvS was a failure, and why PDMT2 will end the franchise for PD)

This makes me very curious how much those 7,000 TV spots from a month or so back would up costing them to produce and air...

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 02:27 PM
This makes me very curious how much those 7,000 TV spots from a month or so back would up costing them to produce and air...

The Media budget ranges, based on early test scores and screenings, and obviously studio confidence. They usually allocate half to two thirds of the cost of production to publicity, over and above the cost of production.

Also, a ****** commercial is just as expensive as a great commercial. There's no discount on bad ideas.

d_osborn
06-09-2016, 08:01 PM
PM it to me... I'll say plead the 5th.

C'mon, you KNOW you want to.
I wish I could! I've been trying to get my mitts on it for years.

It's a shame THE BLUE DOOR leaked instead of that one. :lol:

Commenter 42
06-09-2016, 08:07 PM
I wish I could! I've been trying to get my mitts on it for years.

It's a shame THE BLUE DOOR leaked instead of that one. :lol:

I know you have it. Stop teasing already.

d_osborn
06-09-2016, 08:22 PM
I know you have it. Stop teasing already.
If I had it, you would have already seen a Troma-quality fan film adaptation made with recognizable porn stars in those slutty Halloween costumes as the TMNT and Ron Jeremy as Splinter.

Coola Yagami
06-09-2016, 11:48 PM
If I had it, you would have already seen a Troma-quality fan film adaptation made with recognizable porn stars in those slutty Halloween costumes as the TMNT and Ron Jeremy as Splinter.

Um..... that's not Splinter's tail.....

Commenter 42
06-10-2016, 12:30 AM
If I had it, you would have already seen a Troma-quality fan film adaptation made with recognizable porn stars in those slutty Halloween costumes as the TMNT and Ron Jeremy as Splinter.

U have my attention
https://heymikeyatl.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/wp-1462282521039.jpg?w=500

Filespit
06-10-2016, 01:26 PM
Bay may not have directed the movies or been directly involved in that sense, but it's so damn obvious he's been there with his magic fingers and pointed at a couple of things. You can easily point at his presence, and the similarities to the Transformers movies makes it easy to blame him.

TMNTInsighter
06-11-2016, 08:24 PM
Bay may not have directed the movies or been directly involved in that sense, but it's so damn obvious he's been there with his magic fingers and pointed at a couple of things. You can easily point at his presence, and the similarities to the Transformers movies makes it easy to blame him.

Of course! Everyone forgets that just because the producer sits in the studio doesn't mean he's not one of, if not the, key figure. Unless he gives full discretion to the director (which Spielberg did for the Transformers movies), he's the director's boss. He's also the one who brings in the financing, handles all the paperwork, brings everyone together, checks in on the project, and approves everything up to and including every single cut you see in the theatre, etc. etc. There's a reason these guys are the ones who accept the Oscar for Best Picture after all.
Also, like I said, Bay's not a filmmaker--even when he is behind the camera! He's a businessman (most all), a marketer, and a con artist all in one. THAT is how he rakes in the money! If you're standing in his way, get out of his way! It's like standing in Walter White's way.