With OotS a failure, what's next for TMNT films?

[Andrew NDB]

zDKO6XYXioc

With TMNT: OotS a financial dud, it is highly unlikely there will be a second sequel to the 2014 "film." That said, it is also unlikely that Viacom/Paramount would just sit on the the franchise with films or sell them to another studio.

What do you think will happen with the next film?

[Technogeek29]

If they were smart they'd balance IDW with Nick, like the Barron film did with OT and Mirage. A man can dream, a man can dream.

EDIT: Wait hold it I should really specify which season of Nick I mean. Season 1 season 2 is where I started to lose interest and I skipped a good chunk of season 3 I still don't think I've watched all of northhampton.

[Commenter 42]

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/woccufbfinal-141211085113-conversion-gate01/95/ferris-buellers-gen-y-guide-millennials-credit-unions-27-638.jpg?cb=1418288085

[Casey]

Fingers crossed for Mirage. If Batman can escape Adam West era, then TMNT can do this!

[neatoman]

Realistically? Any attempt to make another one will happen between 2021-2036, long enough for OotS to be forgotten but not so long the franchise itself will be forgotten, but most likely closer to 2021 than 2036.

Considering Viacom was (I hope, but I question it a bit) trying to aim towards children with the last two, another attempt at making a TMNT might be another animated feature. Let me tell you what OotS might have been a bit easier to sit through if it was cartoon rather than cartoonish. Although if they do that, they're probably abandoning the idea of an adult audience but who really cares?

They might do another live-action movie but that is probably going to happen later than if they'd make an animated one.

Trying to make the "Fred Wolf cartoon: The movie" turned out to be... Not be such a great move from either a criticalal or financial stand point and the producers might learn from that. However, TMNT has been for kids for such a long time now we won't get an accurate adaptation of the Mirage comics, even if they tried that we'd probably end up with something much closer to 4Kids than Mirage and we all know what the OP of this thread would think of that...

Bottom line, the possibilities I'm seeing are:

Something mostly original.
Something in between all the different versions like what IDW is doing,

I know that's short after all I wrote but the only other possibilities are another FW-centric movie (which they might not want to try after the OotS fiasco) or another kiddified Mirage adaptation like what 4Kids did (which I doubt will happen but for different reasons).

[Andrew NDB]

Fingers crossed for Mirage. If Batman can escape Adam West era, then TMNT can do this!

The trouble is, it took a Christopher Nolan to do that for Batman and I'm not sure there's a Christopher Nolan out there for TMNT, or even if there were that Paramount/Viacom would trust them with the keys to TMNT.

[Casey]

The trouble is, it took a Christopher Nolan to do that for Batman and I'm not sure there's a Christopher Nolan out there for TMNT, or even if there were that Paramount/Viacom would trust them with the keys to TMNT.

Oof. I think Burton's first crack at it in 89 is what did it. Even Returns is pretty decent and holds up well. Then, yes we had to deal with Schumacher... and Bane.

I HOPE there is a Nolan out there somewhere just waiting and able. I have faith.

[neatoman]

The trouble is, it took a Christopher Nolan to do that for Batman and I'm not sure there's a Christopher Nolan out there for TMNT, or even if there were that Paramount/Viacom would trust them with the keys to TMNT.

Andrew, do you know what the difference between Batman and TMNT is? Batman may dress silly but he's still a human being, very few people are ever going to take mutant turtles in Zorro masks seriously enough to accept a Nolan style movie based around them.

That might work for a comic book where a niche is catered to but too many people are going reject the notion of a gritty movie about the TMNT for that to ever be considered.

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew, do you know what the difference between Batman and TMNT is? Batman may dress silly but he's still a human being, very few people are ever going to take mutant turtles in Zorro masks seriously enough to accept a Nolan style movie based around them.

That might work for a comic book where a niche is catered to but too many people are going reject the notion of a gritty movie about the TMNT for that to ever be considered.

I didn't say I think it would happen. But it could. And it doesn't need a gigantic budget to take a risk on.

[Powder]

I think they'll have some sketchy Asian company fund another sequel, like they just did.


That might work for a comic book where a niche is catered to but too many people are going reject the notion of a gritty movie about the TMNT for that to ever be considered.

Such BS, really. All the most popular fan-art pieces that casuals share on Facebook are dark/edgy. There's obviously some level of interest in a more serious take.

[CyberCubed]

The thing is TMNT reboots in the movies don't happen for years. When a TMNT movie line ends, they let it rest:

- Gap between TMNT III and TMNT 2007 was 1993-2007...14 years.

- Gap between TMNT 2007 and TMNT 2014....7 years.

Whenever a TMNT movie line ends and we don't get a sequel, they let it rest for a long time.

[Powder]

Well, if 14 was cut in half to 7, perhaps 7 will be cut in half to 3.5 years? It can't come quick enough. :trazz:

[chrisdude]

The thing is TMNT reboots in the movies don't happen for years. When a TMNT movie line ends, they let it rest:

- Gap between TMNT III and TMNT 2007 was 1993-2007...14 years.

- Gap between TMNT 2007 and TMNT 2014....7 years.

Whenever a TMNT movie line ends and we don't get a sequel, they let it rest for a long time.I think that's kind of been the case with everything. It's not until now that comic book movies have had a fire beneath them, being pushed forward with crazy urgency. If Turtles gets shelved, there probably won't be a timeframe on it. They probably won't be concerned about how to bring it back. They'll just leave it alone until somebody cares again. It's not like Sony, where Spider-Man was their most valuable property, or like transformers, where Michael Bay stepping away would've been the apocalypse for Paramount.

[thundermaster612]

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/woccufbfinal-141211085113-conversion-gate01/95/ferris-buellers-gen-y-guide-millennials-credit-unions-27-638.jpg?cb=1418288085

should've put Deadpool's one, its better

[chrisdude]

First thing is we need to ditch Bay and Platinum Dunes. Get in a team passionate about TMNT.

They need to adapt IDW- I don't mean 'take from', I mean adapt it in full. It's the version most liked by every faction of the fandom, and has the most mainstream appeal. The movie needs to be a middle ground, where all factions can agree it is at least good. Throw Fred wolf up on screen and you lose a chunk of the public and mirage fans, throw mirage up on the screen, and you lose both the Fred wolf fans and the kids whose toy, apparel, and video game money Viacom craves. There needs to be a middle ground.

IDW is that perfect middle ground, taking the very best from all versions, and doing it's best to please everyone. Just push the envelope on how edgy it can be, and you'll have enough of an audience for a hit film. I personally believe IDW is the best version of TMNT of all, taking the best from all the others. And I also think purists of any version of tmnt are ridiculous and backward thinking. Compromise, a good script, and people who care about the property, fans of Fred Wolf and 2k3 and the original live action films all mixed in together, is the best way to go with your staff. What is needed is a TMNT free of our factionalism.Nope. Must be Mirage. Must be black-and-white. Chop off Shredder's head, or gtfo. Add sand to popcorn for maximum grittiness.

Kidding. Your reasoning is sound. Even thought it's pretty much how I feel about Nick.

[Candy Kappa]

If they'd omit the reincarnation bit, a more IDW based movie would be fancy I guess. Would prefer a Nick adaptation with more Mirage sprinkled in.

[TrickOrTreater]

If they'd omit the reincarnation bit, a more IDW based movie would be fancy I guess. Would prefer a Nick adaptation with more Mirage sprinkled in.

Yep, I'd be just fine with either of these.

[Etsyturtle2]

More... S E Q U E L S!!!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Unfortunately, I'm still not sold on the thought that TMNT 3 isn't a surefire thing. At this point, I believe it's still utterly inevitable.

[TurtleTitan97]

More... S E Q U E L S!!!

Sequels require money, something this film is making less than its predecessor so far.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Sequels require money, something this film is making less than its predecessor so far.

It still astonishes me that Transformers makes so much more money than these TMNT movies, even though the (lack of) quality is nigh identical.

[TurtleTitan97]

It still astonishes me that Transformers makes so much more money than these TMNT movies, even though the (lack of) quality is nigh identical.

I guess if you gotta choose between butt ugly ninja turtles or giant alien robots, giant alien robots will win in the end.

[Commenter 42]

Movies that make money get sequels.

If they could have, they would have made a sequel to Titanic.

Movies that lose money....

http://www.kellyjbaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/goodbye.jpg

[Leolead]

They tried going Ultra cartoony/light-hearted, it didn't work. It's time to do the exact opposite, i'm ready for that 'Batman Begins' caliber TMNT film that they were originally going for.

[CyberCubed]

Goodbye my friend

Oh we never know where life will take us
We know it's just a ride on the wheel
And we never know when death will shake us
And we wonder how it will feel

So goodbye my friend
I know I'll never see you again
But the time together through all the years
Will take away these tears
It's O.K. now
Goodbye my friend

I'd see a lot of things that made me crazy
And I guess I held on to you
You could've run away and left, well maybe
But it wasn't time and we both knew

So goodbye my friend
I know I'll never see you again
But the love you gave me through all the years
Will take away my tears
I'm O.K. now
Goodbye my friend

A life so fragile, a love so pure
We can't hold on but we try
We watch how quickly it disappears
And we'll never know why

But I'm O.K. now
Goodbye my friend
You can go now
Goodbye my friend

Read more: Karla Bonoff - Goodbye My Friend Lyrics | MetroLyrics

[Krutch]

Trying to make the "Fred Wolf cartoon: The movie" turned out to be... Not be such a great move from either a criticalal or financial stand point and the producers might learn from that. The thing is they shot themselves in the foot the first time out with 2014. My biggest counter argument of people who are saying "See?! I told you! A movie based on the original cartoon would suck and bomb!" is that OOTS isn't a faithful adaptation of the original cartoon. It's an attempt to course-correct off a failed attempt at being its own thing thats only now trying to pander to a different audience.

Sure, there's plenty of OT inspired elements in there: Bebop & Rocksteady, Krang, The Technodrome, Reporter April... but you're still left with 8 foot tall bulletproof Ninja Turtles with super strength who don't actually fight or resemble their cartoon counterparts, a Shredder whose a complete write-off, a Technodrome that's never fully realized, a Krang thats only in two scenes, a pre-mutated Baxter Stockman, a Dimension-X that's never explored(or explicitly stated, if I recall), celebrity-status Vern "The Falcon" Fenwick, Raphael's completely different personality, ... You can definitely say of all the other incarnations the Fred Wolf one is the closest it resembles, but its still not the Fred Wolf universe.

I still believe making a Fred Wolf Universe movie could still be huge numbers, but it can't be a direct sequel to a movie that tried its best to be its own thing and failed. It'd be like trying your hardest to adapt Season 2 of The Next Mutation into a faithful Mirage adaptation: you just can't. You can come close by what you add, emphasize, or alter, but you're still in the rules of The Next Mutation universe.

[Technogeek29]

To be fair, their Nick backstory is, in some ways, more tragic than the Mirage one. So...Nick origin with IDW STORY? :D

Pretty sure we'd get a lot of soccer mom backlash watching 4 small children being decapitated.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Pretty sure we'd get a lot of soccer mom backlash watching 4 small children being decapitated.

Enough soccer moms already took kids to see Deadpool. They'll live.

Or how about Kung Fu Panda 2? With an entire village being slaughtered.

It could be done.

[sdp]

How bad is the movie doing? I really don't know so it's hard to tell without knowing but...

If it makes a small profit they'll go ahead with a third movie. If they don't break even then the movie franchise is done for the foreseeable future.

However I think the executives are going to be puzzled on what to do with the franchise. They decided to reboot TMNT transformers style and change a bunch of thing. After a terrible backlash from the internet they get cold feet and change a few things, mainly having a different Shredder and the turtles not being alien. The movie makes money so they decide to give what the fans wanted for the second film from the beginning thinking it was those changes fans were mostly outspoken about which made the first movie successful and the second movie bombs giving fans exactly what they wanted and having tons of positive feedback online.

[Leolead]

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/turtles1.jpg

[Technogeek29]

Enough soccer moms already took kids to see Deadpool. They'll live.

Or how about Kung Fu Panda 2? With an entire village being slaughtered.

It could be done.

Haha I totally forgot about that scene in Kung Fu Panda 2. Your right Cartoons have started doing on screen suicide now.

[Sabacooza]

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/turtles1.jpg Exactly. This is what we want.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Exactly. This is what we want.

Except I want rainbow bandannas. :tlol:

[Leolead]

Exactly. This is what we want.
It's what the 2014 film SHOULD'VE been:
Three years ago, I started working on the John Fusco version, which was this awesome, awesome, awesome ‘Batman Begins’ kind of take on the first movie. It was really interesting, but it was maybe a little too edgy for what Paramount wanted. It went through a couple of different versions before Michael Bay took it over and brought in Jonathan Liebesman (‘Wrath of the Titans,’ ‘Battle Los Angeles’) to direct.”

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entertainment/movies/NATL-TMNT-Co-Creator-Says-Michael-Bay-Wont-Ruin-Franchise-179664711.html

[Coola Yagami]

I do agree with the above post. An OT-Ish movie would have been cool, just the rivalry between Yoshi and Saki alone, considering Yoshi is splinter in the OT, and robot foot soldiers. All that woulda been cool if it was it's own thing and not a sequel to the first movie.

[samxsteal]

They tried going Ultra cartoony/light-hearted, it didn't work. It's time to do the exact opposite, i'm ready for that 'Batman Begins' caliber TMNT film that they were originally going for.

Not Batman begins as much as a love those movie they are so far from the comics I would not want to see that if that's the route they are going to take. Heck dark Knight trilogy is the reason we have a man of steal and bvs(which I still liked). I'd rather if they go the comics route they go a deadpool route which is the best comic adaptation. And I don't mean make it a comedy I mean adapt the tone of the comic(I prefer IDW over mirage) perfectly.

But batman begins is not a faithful adaptation. Hell batfleck is more comic book accurate then bale.

[Foombamaroom]

Honestly, I don't want a Mirage movie. I want a Mirage TV show. 10-13 episodes of dark and grittiness, and actual storytelling. It gives more room for character development and lets the story breathe.


But if a movie's to come out, IDW's the way to go. The storytelling is perfectly balanced with the humor and the characters, and honestly, that's the definitive version of TMNT for me.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Honestly, I don't want a Mirage movie. I want a Mirage TV show. 10-13 episodes of dark and grittiness, and actual storytelling. It gives more room for character development and lets the story breathe.


But if a movie's to come out, IDW's the way to go. The storytelling is perfectly balanced with the humor and the characters, and honestly, that's the definitive version of TMNT for me.

Agreed on all counts.

Where ya been, Foomba? :tgrin:

[Leolead]

Not Batman begins as much as a love those movie they are so far from the comics I would not want to see that if that's the route they are going to take. Heck dark Knight trilogy is the reason we have a man of steal and bvs(which I still liked). I'd rather if they go the comics route they go a deadpool route which is the best comic adaptation. And I don't mean make it a comedy I mean adapt the tone of the comic(I prefer IDW over mirage) perfectly.

But batman begins is not a faithful adaptation. Hell batfleck is more comic book accurate then bale.

No, I don't mean how Nolan adapts the Batman comics-- What i'm saying is the dark and gritty tone and aesthetic is what I want for a Mirage film with fight scenes styled after the 'The Raid' (which is what was originally promised to us). Just imagine a Mirage trilogy:

Movie 1 - Adaptation of TMNT #2, Stockman as the main villain
Movie 2 - adaptation of TMNT #1 Shredder and all that good stuff with the Foot, Leo cuts of Shreddie's head in the climax
Movie 3 - "City At War" nuff' said.

IDW is cool and all, but Mirage is what they should be adapting if they're looking into the comics. If not a movie, i'd kill for a Netflix series in vain of 'Daredevil'

[samxsteal]

Honestly, I don't want a Mirage movie. I want a Mirage TV show. 10-13 episodes of dark and grittiness, and actual storytelling. It gives more room for character development and lets the story breathe.


But if a movie's to come out, IDW's the way to go. The storytelling is perfectly balanced with the humor and the characters, and honestly, that's the definitive version of TMNT for me.

Agreed on all counts.

Where ya been, Foomba? :tgrin:
Agreed...:teek: what's this. Lol
But really in a dream world daredevil style mirage show.

But IDW movie would rock so much. the IDW series deserves so much more recognition than it get. I honestly like it better then mirage tmnt.

[samxsteal]

No, I don't mean how Nolan adapts the Batman comics-- What i'm saying is the dark and gritty tone and aesthetic is what I want for a Mirage film with fight scenes styled after the 'The Raid' (which is what was originally promised to us). Just imagine a Mirage trilogy:

Movie 1 - Adaptation of TMNT #2, Stockman as the main villain
Movie 2 - adaptation of TMNT #1 Shredder and all that good stuff with the Foot, Leo cuts of Shreddie's head in the climax
Movie 3 - "City At War" nuff' said.

IDW is cool and all, but Mirage is what they should be adapting if they're looking into the comics. If not a movie, i'd kill for a Netflix series in vain of 'Daredevil'

See I'd prefer mirage as a series it just lends itself to that more. But idk how I feel about the "dark gritty" people say they want it but when it's done people end up hating it. But IDW is awesome and there stories are so good. But city at war would rock no matter what.

[Leolead]

See I'd prefer mirage as a series it just lends itself to that more. But idk how I feel about the "dark gritty" people say they want it but when it's done people end up hating it. But IDW is awesome and there stories are so good. But city at war would rock no matter what.
Now that I think about it, i'd rather a Mirage Netflix series. It'd work better than a movie. Wouldn't it be awesome if we got a Mirage Netflix series and an IDW movie series at the SAME time! haha.
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/a49e8c36832257.572abdb1ad01b.jpg
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/ecb04c36832257.572aba7775d1d.jpg

[Bry]

To answer the question... I'm torn between my hope and my "realistic" expectation. I would love to see a proper Mirage-style reboot, or even an IDW-style do-over. I'm not entirely confident yet that this iteration is done, unfortunately. I mean... domestically it's pretty much a guaranteed flop. It may get $100m, but that's a huge disappointment versus its budget and marketing costs. But Bay is definitely playing hard to the market in China, with Transformers as well as this, and may be counting on that money carrying this franchise forward. I would hope that its failure elsewhere would put the brakes on, but I'm not sure it'll be that easy.

...but, hell with it, I'm gonna vote IDW-flavour reboot out of sheer optimism. I'm not optimistic enough for a Mirage-style reboot, mind you. :trazz:

But batman begins is not a faithful adaptation. Hell batfleck is more comic book accurate then bale.

I wouldn't entirely agree... Batman Begins borrowed a lot of its story from "Batman: Year One". I think it did the best job fleshing out Bruce Wayne as a character, though his Batman tended to feel like "Batman-in-progress".

I actually liked Affleck as Batman more than I expected to, but Batman v Superman didn't make the character, or Gotham, or his "world" work for me anywhere near as well as Begins did.

No, I don't mean how Nolan adapts the Batman comics-- What i'm saying is the dark and gritty tone and aesthetic is what I want for a Mirage film with fight scenes styled after the 'The Raid' (which is what was originally promised to us). Just imagine a Mirage trilogy:

Movie 1 - Adaptation of TMNT #2, Stockman as the main villain
Movie 2 - adaptation of TMNT #1 Shredder and all that good stuff with the Foot, Leo cuts of Shreddie's head in the climax
Movie 3 - "City At War" nuff' said.

IDW is cool and all, but Mirage is what they should be adapting if they're looking into the comics. If not a movie, i'd kill for a Netflix series in vain of 'Daredevil'

Yup. Yup. Yup yup yup.

I've got a just-for-fun pitch treatment kicking around my hard drive somewhere that's really similar to this... Except with 1 and 2 swapped. Stockman as a minor character in #1 (playing his part in introducing April), with Stockman's revenge and the TCRI reveal being at the heart of #2. And City at War being the big trilogy-ending finale.

I love the IDW book, and I'd be happy if the bigwigs looked to that when deciding future direction of the movies... but Mirage is still the best story. Looking there, and understanding its origins, should be step one for anyone adapting the property. Platinum Dunes didn't bother, and we see where it got them.

[Redeemer]

The trouble is, it took a Christopher Nolan to do that for Batman and I'm not sure there's a Christopher Nolan out there for TMNT, or even if there were that Paramount/Viacom would trust them with the keys to TMNT.

Oof. I think Burton's first crack at it in 89 is what did it. Even Returns is pretty decent and holds up well. Then, yes we had to deal with Schumacher... and Bane.

I HOPE there is a Nolan out there somewhere just waiting and able. I have faith.
Your'e both wrong!!!! Haha! But on a serious note Frank Miller is the first one to give us a dark, serious, and gritty batman who really broke that Adam West mold. Burton was defiantly the first one to bring a mature Batman to the big screen.

Honestly, I don't want a Mirage movie. I want a Mirage TV show. 10-13 episodes of dark and grittiness, and actual storytelling. It gives more room for character development and lets the story breathe.


But if a movie's to come out, IDW's the way to go. The storytelling is perfectly balanced with the humor and the characters, and honestly, that's the definitive version of TMNT for me.

I would agree with you, but the art in IDW recently has been horrid (taste wise) and too cartoonish lately and could do with out. But as other have said I would Love to see a faithful adaptation Mirage or IDW(Dan Duncan era)

[TurtleTitan97]

But on a serious note Frank Miller is the first one to give us a dark, serious, and gritty batman who really broke that Adam West mold. Burton was defiantly the first one to bring a mature Batman to the big screen.


Batman was already returning to his darker roots in the comics before Miller even came aboard.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

I wonder how long it will be till we hear any news about a sequel or not. Will they even say anything if they don't plan on making a sequel?

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder how long it will be till we hear any news about a sequel or not. Will they even say anything if they don't plan on making a sequel?

Oh, I would bet they may actually "announce" a sequel. That's generally how these things work. Expect articles coming soon about, "Sequel greenlit!" or something somesuch, followed by... the whole thing quietly going away.

Announcing a sequel or a trilogy while the existing movie is still in theaters is a tried and true business practice in Hollywood. Builds audience confidence. You know, "Whoa, the studio has that much confidence that the next one is already happening? Wow, I better go see this one STAT!"

[TrickOrTreater]

I wouldn't entirely agree... Batman Begins borrowed a lot of its story from "Batman: Year One". I think it did the best job fleshing out Bruce Wayne as a character, though his Batman tended to feel like "Batman-in-progress".

Just to expand, Year One as well as Batman: The Man Who Falls, and some hints of DKR, of course.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TIV-Cyl9rL0/UAdGf2DN6sI/AAAAAAAAEkE/Ci6Xc2QbVy8/s1600/img01-2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_kJX4V6xWtE/TxHkRpSDzmI/AAAAAAAARxM/g_GxTed793M/s1600/BAT%2BORIG%2B2.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/62070/1805168-deception.png

As well the animated series
http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ntf27.jpg

Batman Begins was very faithful to several comics, borrowing and adapting huge, important pieces to create one story.

Did it change a few things? Of course. But it was still incredibly faithful in several ways that more than made up for it.

Same with TDK. Borrowing from Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Man Who Laughs, even a little of of Killing Joke.

We'd be lucky as hell to get a Ninja Turtles movie AS faithful to the comics/better cartoons as Begins and TDK was to Batman.

[Andrew NDB]

Batman Begins was very faithful to several comics, borrowing and adapting huge, important pieces to create one story.

Did it change a few things? Of course. But it was still incredibly faithful in several ways that more than made up for it.

Same with TDK. Borrowing from Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Man Who Laughs, even a little of of Killing Joke.

We'd be lucky as hell to get a Ninja Turtles movie AS faithful to the comics/better cartoons as Begins and TDK was to Batman.

Very true.

[Commenter 42]

Where do people get "sequel" out of a failure of this magnitude?

I'm drunk on Boubon, but Y'all are drunk on wishful thinking.

We get more TF movies because they make big piles of cash.

This isn't that. This is the slow demise of Paramount, desperately in need of a cash infusion, flailing about in desperation.

TMNT3? After this bomb?

Nope.

[Andrew NDB]

This isn't that. This is the slow demise of Paramount, desperately in need of a cash infusion, flailing about in desperation.

Star Trek Beyond will save them. That's been tracking really well.

https://media.giphy.com/media/30swyC5E1ktVe/giphy.gif

[Redeemer]

Batman was already returning to his darker roots in the comics before Miller even came aboard.

There was never a truly dark or gritty Batman until Miller's work. I am assuming you are talking about Neal Adams work, I do agree Batman became a serious character again before Miller came on board, but nothing Like how Miller wrote him or the universe he created. As I said Miller created the first Dark, Gritty Batman.

Just compare how colorful the Batman Comics were before Frank Miller and compare them to the color or lack there of in his Dark Knight Returns.

[Commenter 42]

Star Trek Beyond will save them. That's been tracking really well.

https://media.giphy.com/media/30swyC5E1ktVe/giphy.gif

To be fair, film itself, is stagnating, again. The last time we underwent this sort of change was the late 90's, the rebirth of indie cinema; before that it was Brukheimer with Top Gun and the rise of true block buster cinema; on and on, the milestones are pretty clear.

The CBM fatigue isn't proven by PDMT, it started with Avengers AOU, and has been building in ferocity since. SW:TFA barely escaped, owing largely it's success to the decade of failures that preceded it, and a **** ton of good will, built on hope, and some willful blindness.

Dead pool, with Reynolds is precisely the same; it wasn't a good movie, it wasn't funny, really, but it was accurate, which made it special. It was the little engine that could, it's the abused spouse, who finally stands up to the abuser.

so yeah, it is CBM fatigue, but it's a unique kind of disdain, built on trust, or the lack there of.

TMNT2 failed solely on its predecessor, and possibly even because B&R were relatively on safe looking, so that, no only was the first movie horrible, but The villains in the new one don't invoke any curiosity. The audience isn't compelled to see it for either it's merits or its faults.

Across the board, everything in theatres right now, are not must see films, it's a slew of sequels, valued as rentals or Netflix at most.

Hollywood, it seems, has forgotten, the key to drawing a crowd. The assumption, that we'll see it anyway, because we're fans, it's proving false; nobody told them just how fickle fans can be.

Nothing right now, tells Hollywood, that dark and brooding is a way to go. BVS failed, Fantastic 4 failed; both super serious versions of their source material, but with dour didactic tones that reached a crescendo of idiotic solemnity so stomach turning, even Kevin Smith slammed his own gravy train. That's something.

So no, nobody is looking for Nolans dogmatic approache; Nolan isn't "Fun".

Could an outstanding TMNT film be made? Goddamn it yes; should it be dark n gritty and serious?

Was Mirage ever all work and no play? Is that really the brand?

Not for years.

Of course, I want it, you want it, but we are not the audience...

[Casey]

Your'e both wrong!!!! Haha! But on a serious note Frank Miller is the first one to give us a dark, serious, and gritty batman who really broke that Adam West mold. Burton was defiantly the first one to bring a mature Batman to the big screen.

Yeah. I agree with you there, but I was referring to film specifically. I had a feeling someone was gonna make the Miller comment and rightfully so.

[ZariusTwo]

There was never a truly dark or gritty Batman until Miller's work..

Nor should there have ever been

[neatoman]

There was never a truly dark or gritty Batman until Miller's work. I am assuming you are talking about Neal Adams work, I do agree Batman became a serious character again before Miller came on board, but nothing Like how Miller wrote him or the universe he created. As I said Miller created the first Dark, Gritty Batman.

Just compare how colorful the Batman Comics were before Frank Miller and compare them to the color or lack there of in his Dark Knight Returns.

Batman started out as a character who shot people to death and thought chemical burning was a fitting way for criminals to die.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/0/06/Batman_Earth-Two_0011.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140517180446

Maybe not that dark overall but pretty messed up regardless.

[Redeemer]

Yeah. I agree with you there, but I was referring to film specifically. I had a feeling someone was gonna make the Miller comment and rightfully so.

Thats what I figured :P
Batman started out as a character who shot people to death and thought chemical burning was a fitting way for criminals to die.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/0/06/Batman_Earth-Two_0011.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140517180446

Maybe not that dark overall but pretty messed up regardless.

I no Earth 1 Batman used guns and I believe Alfred did as well :lol:, but I never heard of him killing anyone........
But as a said before that comic is very colorful compared to Miller's work.


But anyways back to the future of TMNT I really doubt if we will ever get a TMNT movie that is Mirage based or based on IDW.

[neatoman]

Thats what I figured :P


I no Earth 1 Batman used guns and I believe Alfred did as well :lol:, but I never heard of him killing anyone........
But as a said before that comic is very colorful compared to Miller's work.


But anyways back to the future of TMNT I really doubt if we will ever get a TMNT movie that is Mirage based or based on IDW.

Correction, Golden Age Batman was from Earth-2, it was the Silver Age Batman who was from Earth-1. Sounds backwards, I know.

[TMNTChris1980]

But anyways back to the future of TMNT I really doubt if we will ever get a TMNT movie that is Mirage based or based on IDW.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The nostalgia for the OT is just about dead. This has been proven by the OT characters being in the Nick episode, and the ratings being abysmal. I think 4 to 5 years ago, people wanted to see an OT TMNT movie, and they didn't get it. If you saw the 2014 TMNT movie looking to see your favorite characters from the 80's/90's you were severely let down. The producers of OotS tried to make good, by making a movie geared towards the OT. It was too late, and they already lost people with their first attempt.

I think the only choice next for a TMNT movie is a Mirage based movie. I think with time Mirage becomes more well known. The Ultimate Collections sell fairly well (I think). Kids growing up on the Nick TMNT are getting familiar with a lot of Mirage storylines. In ten to fifteen years from now, it won't be strange for them to see a movie with Utroms, Fugitoid, Zog, Triceratons, Renet, etc. So yes, I think the next TMNT movie (unless they try to wrap up this dumpster fire of a trilogy with a third one) will be a Mirage TMNT movie.

[Editor's Note Comics]

I imagine the Blu-Ray/Digital sales will be what determines if this gets a sequel or not.

[ZariusTwo]

Perhaps if Turtles Forever had done a better job with the FW Turtles rather than paint them as annoyingly cooky losers, there'd be a bit more demand from the baby boomers who caught that and tuned in for the next incarnation.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles came too little, too late in correcting TF's mistakes.

[Editor's Note Comics]

Perhaps if Turtles Forever had done a better job with the FW Turtles rather than paint them as annoyingly cooky losers, there'd be a bit more demand from the baby boomers who caught that and tuned in for the next incarnation.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles came too little, too late in correcting TF's mistakes.

So you think a part poor box office results comes from a series finale that aired 7 years ago, on a show that can't manage to get a proper DVD release, because of the way it handled characters from 1987, and that baby boomers (people age 52-70 now, ages 23 - 41 when the '87 series aired, 45 and 63 when Turtles Forever came out) aren't coming out for the movie because they didn't like that finale? That's more than a little bit of a stretch.

[Casey]

So you think a part poor box office results comes from a series finale that aired 7 years ago, on a show that can't manage to get a proper DVD release, because of the way it handled characters from 1987, and that baby boomers (people age 52-70 now, ages 23 - 41 when the '87 series aired, 45 and 63 when Turtles Forever came out) aren't coming out for the movie because they didn't like that finale? That's more than a little bit of a stretch.

:tlol: I for real laughed out loud at both the comment that sparked this reply as well as the reply itself. :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The nostalgia for the OT is just about dead. This has been proven by the OT characters being in the Nick episode, and the ratings being abysmal. I think 4 to 5 years ago, people wanted to see an OT TMNT movie, and they didn't get it. If you saw the 2014 TMNT movie looking to see your favorite characters from the 80's/90's you were severely let down. The producers of OotS tried to make good, by making a movie geared towards the OT. It was too late, and they already lost people with their first attempt.

You're joking, right? Ratings for the crossover in the Nick show were about the same as all the other Season 4 episodes. That's how it is now. Nick also aired that episode online a few days early on their website before it came out on TV, so many likely watched the streamed version.

Also do you seriously think OT characters will ever fade away completely? IDW is using Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady and they've basically cemented them as major parts of the TMNT mythos along with the Mirage characters. There's no escaping this now.

Krang's also been retconned as an Utrom in both the IDW comic and Nick cartoon. I'm willing to bet most future versions of TMNT now have Krang as the leader of the Utroms or something similar to IDW where he was the prince.

[neatoman]

Perhaps if Turtles Forever had done a better job with the FW Turtles rather than paint them as annoyingly cooky losers, there'd be a bit more demand from the baby boomers who caught that and tuned in for the next incarnation.

Trans-Dimensional Turtles came too little, too late in correcting TF's mistakes.

Uh, no. The show has been off the air for 20 years and has (as far as I understand) not been given a lot of reruns, that's the reason people younger than 30 typically don't care about it. That and it is a pretty underwhelming show, so anyone who intentionally seeks it out may not have very high chances of liking it.

Trying to blame this on Turtles Forever is just bizarre.

[Powder]

So you think a part poor box office results comes from a series finale that aired 7 years ago, on a show that can't manage to get a proper DVD release, because of the way it handled characters from 1987, and that baby boomers (people age 52-70 now, ages 23 - 41 when the '87 series aired, 45 and 63 when Turtles Forever came out) aren't coming out for the movie because they didn't like that finale? That's more than a little bit of a stretch.

The lengths to which FW fanboys will go know no bounds.

[Commenter 42]

I'm still scratching my head. There won't be a ****ing part 3. They lost millions of dollars.

Wake the **** up!!!!


Wait, Sam and I voted the same way? We agree? Did Hell actually just freeze over?

[ToTheNines]

Uh, no. The show has been off the air for 20 years and has (as far as I understand) not been given a lot of reruns, that's the reason people younger than 30 typically don't care about it. That and it is a pretty underwhelming show, so anyone who intentionally seeks it out may not have very high chances of liking it.

Trying to blame this on Turtles Forever is just bizarre.

I have to believe he doesn't mean actual baby boomers, but those individuals who were children for the 4kids run and are about 21 now.

[neatoman]

I have to believe he doesn't mean actual baby boomers, but those individuals who were children for the 4kids run and are about 21 now.

So did I, why he didn't just call them millennials is weird. When we think about the person we're talking about here though... Let's just say he seems rather odd for someone who was old enough to join a forum 13 years ago.

He's at least 18 (probably much older) and believes a TV special is responsible for this movie's financial failure. That and the additional belief that an episode of a cartoon with declining viewership was "too late to correct mistakes", just adds to the weirdness.

[ZariusTwo]

Ah from the "genius" behind "this movie is for people with brain tumors" comes "this guy's a weirdo now", you never cease to amaze me with your pettiness kiddo.

I have to believe he doesn't mean actual baby boomers, but those individuals who were children for the 4kids run and are about 21 no

Correct. Probably should have said millennials, but I was sort of half-tired.

it is a pretty underwhelming show

In your (worthless) opinion.

So did I, why he didn't just call them millennials is weird. When we think about the person we're talking about here though... Let's just say he seems rather odd for someone who was old enough to join a forum 13 years ago.

He's at least 18 (probably much older)

I'm 33

Call me "weird and "odd" all you want punk, as an Aspie I've dealt with worse labels from even thicker-headed bullies, I've got my theories and I'm sticking to them.

:tlol: I for real laughed out loud at both the comment that sparked this reply as well as the reply itself. :tlol:

This has all been fairly intriguing...offer an alternative opinion/idea, get laughed at and labelled, made to feel like an outcast (amongst fellow unwashed flimsy outcasts:lol:), it's more telling of the sort of people who find more fun in negativity than a fun time at the cinema.

This is the kind of s*it that drove Leo away, well guess what? No getting rid of me. Do your worst.

OnE1iO-WJu8

[vicsavage]

Perhaps we can give the general public a bit more credit and determine that just because they see vaguely familiar elements from a cartoon they watched decades ago it doesn't mean they'll necessarily spend money to see it, especially since the Turtles themselves look like Hulkish monsters.

I mean, my reaction to Krang et al was "whatever". Yeah, I'd be a lot more excited if this happened in 1995...

[ZariusTwo]

base it off the nick version.

Dear god no. That thing barely has an identity of it's own anymore, it's a hodgepodge mix of various eras and it's done badly.

[neatoman]

Ah from the "genius" behind "this movie is for people with brain tumors" comes "this guy's a weirdo now", you never cease to amaze me with your pettiness kiddo.



Correct. Probably should have said millennials, but I was sort of half-tired.



In your (worthless) opinion.



I'm 33

Call me "weird and "odd" all you want punk, as an Aspie I've dealt with worse labels from even thicker-headed bullies, I've got my theories and I'm sticking to them.



This has all been fairly intriguing...offer an alternative opinion/idea, get laughed at and labelled, made to feel like an outcast (amongst fellow unwashed flimsy outcasts:lol:), it's more telling of the sort of people who find more fun in negativity than a fun time at the cinema.

This is the kind of s*it that drove Leo away, well guess what? No getting rid of me. Do your worst.

OnE1iO-WJu8

So you just admitted to being autistic, that certainly explains why you get so easily offended over jokes and why you try to discredit me over meaningless things.

Whatever, now that I know you actually suffer from aspergers I'm not going to continue responding to you from now on, it would be pointless and sad. I wish you had admitted this from the start, now I just feel bad about calling you weird.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

now I just feel bad about calling you weird.

So you only feel bad about calling people names only if they have some sort of disability?

[ToTheNines]

I don't think Turtles Forever is to blame for the poor box office haul, but that it interesting to think about Zarius.

I didn't have a problem with the FW portrayal in Forever (they did get alot wrong obviously), but the 4kids attitude that they were the "lame version" of the turtles probably left an impression on a lot of people. Don't forget TF aired a couple of times on Nickelodeon in 2011/2012.

While IDW has done some cool things with FW characters, conversely the Nick show utilizes many of those characters only to completely overhaul them. And even though Trans Turtles had the guys more in character, the Nick boys were totally disrespectful towards them...

[neatoman]

So you only feel bad about calling people names only if they have some sort of disability?

I feel bad when I'm given reason to regret it. I wasn't picking on him, he kept insulting me for joking about how bad this movie is. He was constantly mischaracterizing me, calling me childish and mean when all I did was mock the quality of a movie. So when I wrote those sarcastic replies I didn't feel bad because he was the one who attacked me.

But then I learned he was autist. Responding to him with sarcasm really would be mean now.

His obsession with attacking me for joking about brain damage and childishness (both of which were jokes about the movie iself and not it's fans, even though he didn't understand that) makes sense now, he has a disorder that prevents him from developing properly, he likely meets people who patronise him for it on a regular basis. Of course he would react so strongly to such jokes.

[Bry]

...I mean, it's pretty safe to say that "Turtles Forever" had no impact on this movie's viewership whatsoever. Most of the casual audience (meaning the general audience with vague memories of the Fred Wolf show who aren't "hardcore fans") this movie was aiming its marketing at likely haven't seen that TV movie, if they're even aware of it at all. And even if they have, it's highly unlikely they'd be upset about it at this point. That's hardcore fan territory, and most of those people are here right now. :tlol:

The only thing that likely had an impact here was the mixed-at-best reaction to the 2014 movie, or Fred Wolf nostalgia just not being as strong or widespread as the producers assumed. Either way, the movie failed to reach a wider audience based on its own merits (or lack thereof).

It's also worth noting that every version of the TMNT since Fred Wolf has made efforts to deepen the story and the characters to some extent. Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady have been used multiple times since, and each time they've been given character overhauls that this movie just didn't use or acknowledge. Honestly, after two cartoon series that leaned a lot harder on serialized storylines, often directly inspired by the original comics (or a hybrid with the comics as a major influence), Fred Wolf is kind of the anomaly at this point. For example, everyone knows Raph as the "angry one" even though that's absolutely not who he was in the Fred Wolf show. People know Shredder as Oroku Saki, who has a personal vendetta against Hamato Yoshi, even though that only rarely mattered in the Fred Wolf show. Krang has been worked into the story as an "evil Utrom" or a more "serious" villain more than once, and I think that's kind of seeped into the public consciousness a little bit. All that, and I think people expect more of an actual story, with at least some element of seriousness, because for the most part that's what we've seen (or seen attempted, at least) for the past 20 years of this property.

Playing exclusively to Fred Wolf nostalgia was a mistake. In writing, in production, and in marketing.

[ZariusTwo]

While IDW has done some cool things with FW characters, conversely the Nick show utilizes many of those characters only to completely overhaul them. And even though Trans Turtles had the guys more in character, the Nick boys were totally disrespectful towards them...

Yeah, there's that too. If you hammer home to the audience enough times that older elements are better after a period of "readjustment" or to have an attitude towards the older model, they're going to go into something championing the older elements with that precise attitude.

[Sabacooza]

It's also worth noting that every version of the TMNT since Fred Wolf has made efforts to deepen the story and the characters to some extent. Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady have been used multiple times since, and each time they've been given character overhauls that this movie just didn't use or acknowledge. Honestly, after two cartoon series that leaned a lot harder on serialized storylines, often directly inspired by the original comics (or a hybrid with the comics as a major influence), Fred Wolf is kind of the anomaly at this point. For example, everyone knows Raph as the "angry one" even though that's absolutely not who he was in the Fred Wolf show. People know Shredder as Oroku Saki, who has a personal vendetta against Hamato Yoshi, even though that only rarely mattered in the Fred Wolf show. Krang has been worked into the story as an "evil Utrom" or a more "serious" villain more than once, and I think that's kind of seeped into the public consciousness a little bit. All that, and I think people expect more of an actual story, with at least some element of seriousness, because for the most part that's what we've seen (or seen attempted, at least) for the past 20 years of this property.

Playing exclusively to Fred Wolf nostalgia was a mistake. In writing, in production, and in marketing.I hate to say it but I liked the tone of the first Bay movie better. Yes, it was a bad movie but it had a sense of seriousness to it. This new movie was just way too cartoonish. I don't understand why it had to be a complete carbon copy of the Fred Wolf show when they clearly could've kept the serious tone of the first but yet add Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang. Do a more mature take on them. I mean IDW has no problem with this but then again, the writers and producers of these movies don't give a flying **** about the property nor do they respect or truly understand it.

[Vicky82]

I prefer a reboot don't care what version. I just don't want Bay and his crew involved.

I like to see it happen in the next few years not after I've kicked the bucket.

I like to keep the turtle actors and Bebop and Rocksteady actors, the others can go.

[Leolead]

I prefer a reboot don't care what version. I just don't want Bay and his crew involved.

I like to see it happen in the next few years not after I've kicked the bucket.

I like to keep the turtle actors and Bebop and Rocksteady actors, the others can go.
Buut you do realize that a reboot by nature is wiping the slate clean entirely. Turtles and B&R will be out with Fox and Amell.

[Vicky82]

Buut you do realize that a reboot by nature is wiping the slate clean entirely. Turtles and B&R will be out with Fox and Amell.

Yeah I know, that why I said I like them to stay.

[TrickOrTreater]

This is the kind of s*it that drove Leo away

Hahaha, Leo didn't leave because of "negativity."

And enough with this "kiddo, kid, punk" garbage. It's f*cking annoying and cringy.

[Powder]

Epecially when we're essentially all manchildren anyway.

[IndigoErth]

Correct. Probably should have said millennials, but I was sort of half-tired.

Well some of us are late Gen X'ers actually. That one does still exist.

Little too old to be millennial. And the baby boomer is my mom, who's in her 60s.

Though to be fair her group were the first parents to deal with the TMNT craze, and now she gets to be the grandma who is somewhat already familiar. Enough so to be into seeing the movie and wouldn't mind a third.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The thing is they shot themselves in the foot the first time out with 2014. My biggest counter argument of people who are saying "See?! I told you! A movie based on the original cartoon would suck and bomb!" is that OOTS isn't a faithful adaptation of the original cartoon. It's an attempt to course-correct off a failed attempt at being its own thing thats only now trying to pander to a different audience.

Sure, there's plenty of OT inspired elements in there: Bebop & Rocksteady, Krang, The Technodrome, Reporter April... but you're still left with 8 foot tall bulletproof Ninja Turtles with super strength who don't actually fight or resemble their cartoon counterparts, a Shredder whose a complete write-off, a Technodrome that's never fully realized, a Krang thats only in two scenes, a pre-mutated Baxter Stockman, a Dimension-X that's never explored(or explicitly stated, if I recall), celebrity-status Vern "The Falcon" Fenwick, Raphael's completely different personality, ... You can definitely say of all the other incarnations the Fred Wolf one is the closest it resembles, but its still not the Fred Wolf universe.

I still believe making a Fred Wolf Universe movie could still be huge numbers, but it can't be a direct sequel to a movie that tried its best to be its own thing and failed. It'd be like trying your hardest to adapt Season 2 of The Next Mutation into a faithful Mirage adaptation: you just can't. You can come close by what you add, emphasize, or alter, but you're still in the rules of The Next Mutation universe.

This pretty much sums it. This movie has fan service but it's still nothing like the OT.

[RETTEB SNATAS]

Nope. Must be Mirage. Must be black-and-white. Chop off Shredder's head, or gtfo. Add sand to popcorn for maximum grittiness.

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9800000/Conan-Laughing-late-night-with-conan-obrien-9887457-260-281.gif

I agree, IDW would be a great middle ground. But id LOVE to see full blown mirage

[Casey]

Yes. What's next for Team Zissou?

[Andrew NDB]

Yes. What's next for Team Zissou?

https://imnotatoy.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/killyourself.gif