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View Full Version : Do you consider TMNT 2007 apart of the 90s live action movie universe?


WolvDragon
06-25-2016, 08:05 PM
I sometimes wondered if the 2007 CGI TMNT movie was ever apart of the original 90s movie verse.

I think the director said it was but I'm having trouble find his words about it on google. I think someone else said it was in it's own universe.

The inclusion of Karai in this movie really throws it off continuity wise. I mean she was never established in the original trilogy. But yet shes here in charge of the Foot Clan.

Is TMNT (2007) really TMNT 4? Was it suppose to but it became it's own thing?

Powder
06-25-2016, 08:07 PM
I dunno, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It can kind go either way, so it's best left to personal preference, I say. Not 100% on the official word, though I do think he (Kevin Munroe) had wanted it to be loosely connected to them.

For me it's like, there's a fork in the road where The Next Mutation & TMNT meet, it's your call as to which one is where the original trilogy potentially branched off. I like TNM more than TMNT, so if made to choose I go with that.

oldmanwinters
06-25-2016, 09:26 PM
I look at the 2007 film as an amalgam universe of the live-action films and the 4Kids series.

snake
06-25-2016, 09:39 PM
I do. I also liked 2007 a lot more than most here. Underrated and enjoyable movie.

Editor's Note Comics
06-26-2016, 09:21 AM
If it wasn't for all of the pop songs in the 2007 movie, I would probably count it. But I don't consider a movie that features Vanilla Ice connected to a movie playing POD in the same universe.

MikeandRaph87
06-26-2016, 10:29 AM
I sometimes wondered if the 2007 CGI TMNT movie was ever apart of the original 90s movie verse.

I think the director said it was but I'm having trouble find his words about it on google. I think someone else said it was in it's own universe.

The inclusion of Karai in this movie really throws it off continuity wise. I mean she was never established in the original trilogy. But yet shes here in charge of the Foot Clan.

Is TMNT (2007) really TMNT 4? Was it suppose to but it became it's own thing?

It is like Superman Returns is to the 4 that came before it. It is loosely connected,like a soft reboot.

d_osborn
06-26-2016, 12:23 PM
Personally, I consider the 07 CGI movie it's own thing with a few small throwbacks. Sooooo much potential squandered.

I'm curious is the unproduced Barron Hallmark project was intended to be connected to the original movie.

neatoman
06-26-2016, 01:32 PM
There are some hints that it takes place in the same continuity but it obviously takes place long enough after TMNT III for it to be irrelevant.

snake
06-26-2016, 02:51 PM
If it wasn't for all of the pop songs in the 2007 movie, I would probably count it. But I don't consider a movie that features Vanilla Ice connected to a movie playing POD in the same universe.

I liked the song

CyberCubed
06-26-2016, 03:14 PM
Nowadays I see the 2007 movie having more in common with the Nick cartoon than anything else. You just have to ignore Karai not being familiar with the Turtles, but even that is glossed over in the movie really quickly.

Joey Kamikaze
06-26-2016, 03:49 PM
It is like Superman Returns is to the 4 that came before it. It is loosely connected,like a soft reboot.

There are some hints that it takes place in the same continuity but it obviously takes place long enough after TMNT III for it to be irrelevant.

That's about how I felt about it. I was looking forward to the next movie, the one they were obviously setting up but we never got. As its own thing, I feel TMNT is alright, and at least a hell of an improvement on III. If we'd gotten a proper TMNT V as a follow-up, I'd think of it as the proper TMNT IV today.

Aaronardo
06-26-2016, 04:27 PM
I do. I also liked 2007 a lot more than most here. Underrated and enjoyable movie.

Me too. For every fault in that movie it made up for it by doing something pretty great. Its faults aren't even that big of problems really. I enjoy that movie more than a lot of episodes of the 4Kids series, not gonna lie. (And seriously, the Nightwatcher arc needs to be brought up again. It's a pretty damn good story for Raph)

oldmanwinters
06-26-2016, 07:54 PM
Hey, here's a crazy idea...

TMNT 2k7 is actually an alternate future of the Nick toon!

Cryomancer
06-26-2016, 07:58 PM
It can be if it wants to be, far as I'm concerned. Although it's annoying since the tie-in comics reference Triceratons so that means we're "missing" a potentially interesting "movie".

If it wasn't for all of the pop songs in the 2007 movie, I would probably count it. But I don't consider a movie that features Vanilla Ice connected to a movie playing POD in the same universe.

You're living in a universe that plays both Vanilla Ice and POD right now!

Hey, here's a crazy idea...

TMNT 2k7 is actually an alternate future of the Nick toon!

Would explain why April and Casey don't seem to be like 5-10 years older than the turtles.

oldmanwinters
06-26-2016, 08:14 PM
Would explain why April and Casey don't seem to be like 5-10 years older than the turtles.

I think 2k7 Casey has a similar build to Nick Casey. Most other versions make him into a muscled dude.

I was just thinking today how weird it must be for a kid who first knew the Turtles through the Nick toon to discover the 2007 movie and wonder if it's supposed to be the same characters.

sdp
06-26-2016, 08:43 PM
I followed this movie heavily here in the drome and the director was very vague about things but basically would always say this was a new universe and it clearly was meant to be a new universe. If you want to know Monroe specifically flip flopped from the first one being in continuity to maybe the first two but that it was its own thing etc. In the end we have the trophy room which ironically has TMNT III references which he never mentioned as possibly happening.

I was part of the IT HAS TO BE TMNT IV camp as many were and was happy ot have the trophy room but after seeing the movie and reading the tie-in stuff I realized it made no sense to shoehorn it into the movie continuity. First of all the movies don't add up, the first trilogy are clearly taking place in the late 80s/early 90s while this is a modern world. Pretty much all characters act very differently. The trophy room is pretty much filled with stuff all incarnations of the turtles have done like defeat Shredder, the canister, time scepter and has stuff the movie turtles didn't do as well but have done in many other incarnations like the triceratons and mousers.

However the tie-in comics and kids novels like "who's the nightwatcher" make references to characters like Silver Sentry and flesh out this universe as its own thing. If we'd gotten more movies in this universe it would've definitely become a different universe. And while the fandom may hate it The Next Mutation actually has way more connections and references to the original trilogy making that one more of a sequel to the three films than the 2007 one.

That's my argument, and yeah I'm also now in the camp that "as long as there aren't any huge contradictions" I will shoehorn it into the Nick universe, just so it doesn't feel so alone.

Cryomancer
06-26-2016, 08:48 PM
April running a (false?) import/export business would be a good starting point for some kind of international TMNT comic or TV show or something.

oldmanwinters
06-26-2016, 10:17 PM
I followed this movie heavily here in the drome and the director was very vague about things but basically would always say this was a new universe and it clearly was meant to be a new universe. If you want to know Monroe specifically flip flopped from the first one being in continuity to maybe the first two but that it was its own thing etc. In the end we have the trophy room which ironically has TMNT III references which he never mentioned as possibly happening.

I was part of the IT HAS TO BE TMNT IV camp as many were and was happy ot have the trophy room but after seeing the movie and reading the tie-in stuff I realized it made no sense to shoehorn it into the movie continuity. First of all the movies don't add up, the first trilogy are clearly taking place in the late 80s/early 90s while this is a modern world. Pretty much all characters act very differently. The trophy room is pretty much filled with stuff all incarnations of the turtles have done like defeat Shredder, the canister, time scepter and has stuff the movie turtles didn't do as well but have done in many other incarnations like the triceratons and mousers.

However the tie-in comics and kids novels like "who's the nightwatcher" make references to characters like Silver Sentry and flesh out this universe as its own thing. If we'd gotten more movies in this universe it would've definitely become a different universe. And while the fandom may hate it The Next Mutation actually has way more connections and references to the original trilogy making that one more of a sequel to the three films than the 2007 one.

That's my argument, and yeah I'm also now in the camp that "as long as there aren't any huge contradictions" I will shoehorn it into the Nick universe, just so it doesn't feel so alone.

April running a (false?) import/export business would be a good starting point for some kind of international TMNT comic or TV show or something.

Man, you two really make me want a new mini-series based off the Imagi continuity.

Xav
06-26-2016, 10:44 PM
Nowadays I see the 2007 movie having more in common with the Nick cartoon than anything else. You just have to ignore Karai not being familiar with the Turtles, but even that is glossed over in the movie really quickly.But I thought she does recognize the Turtles when she sees them?

CyberCubed
06-27-2016, 01:29 AM
I think 2k7 Casey has a similar build to Nick Casey. Most other versions make him into a muscled dude.

I was just thinking today how weird it must be for a kid who first knew the Turtles through the Nick toon to discover the 2007 movie and wonder if it's supposed to be the same characters.

April in the 2007 movie also looks like an adult version of Nick April. She literally has the same face, hair style, etc.

Candy Kappa
06-27-2016, 04:11 AM
The Trophy Room gives a lot of nudges to the LA trilogy, so for me I'm fine with it being a alternative sequel to the LA movies while NM is another alternative future version.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/Teenagemutantninjaturtles-1.jpg
1. The Honor Guard helmet from TMNT 3
2. TGRI canister from TMNT 1 and 2
3. TMNT 1 Shredder Helmet
4. What looks like a Triceraton blaster
5. Honor Guard mask from TMNT 3
6. Lord Norinaga's armor
7. The time septer
8. Looks like a Triceraton breather mask
9. Mouser feet??

I wonder if the kimono in the back right corner is Master Yoshi's.

If not canon, at least teh Imagi Turtles have done some very similar adventures like the live-action movies, as well as meeting Triceratons and Mousers before the event of TMNT 2007

oceanfr
06-28-2016, 03:01 PM
It can go both ways as far as the CGI goes.

pferreira
06-30-2016, 07:16 AM
I look at the 2007 film as an amalgam universe of the live-action films and the 4Kids series.Same here since the 4Kids show was on at the time.

ProactiveMan
06-30-2016, 11:12 PM
The Trophy Room gives a lot of nudges to the LA trilogy, so for me I'm fine with it being a alternative sequel to the LA movies while NM is another alternative future version.

The Shredder Helmet is interesting because his design in the prologue and some of the merch is more like the 4kids shredder, but that helmet is clearly from the 90s movie. I'm not sure where they would have gotten it from if that is the case, seeing as his first helmet was crushed, and the second one mutated (somehow).

Andrew NDB
06-30-2016, 11:19 PM
I sometimes wondered if the 2007 CGI TMNT movie was ever apart of the original 90s movie verse.

I think the director said it was but I'm having trouble find his words about it on google. I think someone else said it was in it's own universe.

The inclusion of Karai in this movie really throws it off continuity wise. I mean she was never established in the original trilogy. But yet shes here in charge of the Foot Clan.

Is TMNT (2007) really TMNT 4? Was it suppose to but it became it's own thing?

Absolutely. Munroe said it was intended to be a sequel to TMNT 1 and 2... then we see Walker's hat in it too and the goddamn Scepter, so obviously TMNT 3 is in it too. Yeah, it's TMNT Part Four, through and through.

d_osborn
07-01-2016, 09:57 AM
Absolutely. Munroe said it was intended to be a sequel to TMNT 1 and 2... then we see Walker's hat in it too and the goddamn Scepter, so obviously TMNT 3 is in it too. Yeah, it's TMNT Part Four, through and through.
He also probably intended it to be good, but that didn't quite work out, either. His original character designs were REALLY cool.

I see the trophy room as a fun throwback shot-- nothing more. If they wanted to make it a legit sequel to the old live action movies, there are a ton of things they could have done differently. Better character designs, consistent April/Casey, original voice actors, logo, title, music, vibe, etc.

ToTheNines
07-01-2016, 11:12 AM
He also probably intended it to be good, but that didn't quite work out, either. His original character designs were REALLY cool.

I see the trophy room as a fun throwback shot-- nothing more. If they wanted to make it a legit sequel to the old live action movies, there are a ton of things they could have done differently. Better character designs, consistent April/Casey, original voice actors, logo, title, music, vibe, etc.

This.

We've had this same discussion about 99 times now, and we come to the same conclusion every time: some think it's a sequel, some think it's a seperate universe. Whatever you want it to be.

Powder
07-01-2016, 03:27 PM
That's part of the fun of TMNT. You can usually "choose your own adventure" so to speak, be it this matter, Image/Mirage canon, which things tie into the OT, etc.

MsMarvelDuckie
07-01-2016, 07:22 PM
I see the trophy room as a fun throwback shot-- nothing more. If they wanted to make it a legit sequel to the old live action movies, there are a ton of things they could have done differently. Better character designs, consistent April/Casey, original voice actors, logo, title, music, vibe, etc.


Pretty much this. April has mire in common with her 4kids counterpart, as does Casey. Karai and the turtles obviously know each other, as evidenced when Leo recognizes her at the cinstruction site. And the lair has NO connection to any of the movie ones- in fact, it actually looks more like the Atlantean one from 4kids. (Yes I know it was destroyed, but given the proximity of the underground city, it is very possible they had other outposts.) The trophy room was just an easter egg or shout out scene.

ToTheNines
07-01-2016, 07:40 PM
That's part of the fun of TMNT. You can usually "choose your own adventure" so to speak, be it this matter, Image/Mirage canon, which things tie into the OT, etc.

A lot of Mirage is like that, with the guest era and certain Tales. Archie has some take or leave continuity, mainly Year of The Turtle. IDW has the Batman crossover. Even Next Mutation has the PRIS crossover lol.

snake
07-01-2016, 07:41 PM
A lot of Mirage is like that, with the guest era and certain Tales. Archie has some take or leave continuity, mainly Year of The Turtle. IDW has the Batman crossover. Even Next Mutation has the PRIS crossover lol.

IDW also has the X Files crossover

ToTheNines
07-02-2016, 08:25 AM
IDW also has the X Files crossover

Well the 6 part series as a whole is undeniably not canon, especially after the finale. But yeah, you could include just the TMNT issue if you really wanted to.

I also liked to believe that the Justice Force episode in 4kids and the Pizzaface episode in Nick were both just Mike's imagination, unfortunately later episodes of each series would bring those crappy stories back into the mix. I still pretty much ignore them though.

Coola Yagami
07-02-2016, 09:59 AM
It wants to be but it's clearly not. I mean do you honestly see goofy-ass Cowabunga Leo from the first 3 movies go on this world trek on his own? Naw.

CyberCubed
07-02-2016, 10:29 AM
I also liked to believe that the Justice Force episode in 4kids and the Pizzaface episode in Nick were both just Mike's imagination, unfortunately later episodes of each series would bring those crappy stories back into the mix. I still pretty much ignore them though.

Justice Force appear so often in the 2k3 series its hard to ignore them though. Although you're right had the first Silver Sentry ep just been a one-off, it could have just been a comic story Mike was imagining himself in. But that went out the window once the superheroes kept coming back.

MathUser
07-05-2016, 09:41 AM
The Trophy Room gives a lot of nudges to the LA trilogy, so for me I'm fine with it being a alternative sequel to the LA movies while NM is another alternative future version.



If not canon, at least teh Imagi Turtles have done some very similar adventures like the live-action movies, as well as meeting Triceratons and Mousers before the event of TMNT 2007

How on earth did they get that guys armor? I ain't seen TMNT3 for a while, but did they take off his armor at some point and bring it back with them? Did he come to the future somehow? And they got his armor off him then?

Also, don't forget that Aprils apartment from TMNT 2 appears in this film also.

snake
07-05-2016, 09:46 AM
How on earth did they get that guys armor? I ain't seen TMNT3 for a while, but did they take off his armor at some point and bring it back with them? Did he come to the future somehow? And they got his armor off him then?

Also, don't forget that Aprils apartment from TMNT 2 appears in this film also.

I haven't seen TMNT 3 in awhile as well, but it's possible that the turtles went back in another adventure or he came to the future somehow. (Maybe Savanti was involved?)

Cryomancer
07-05-2016, 12:17 PM
How on earth did they get that guys armor? I ain't seen TMNT3 for a while, but did they take off his armor at some point and bring it back with them? Did he come to the future somehow? And they got his armor off him then?

Also, don't forget that Aprils apartment from TMNT 2 appears in this film also.

Lots of old armor is still around in the present, maybe April's company picked it up for them at some point.

Shark_Blade
07-09-2016, 05:29 PM
Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. I hated the intro with the long winded narrator ("4 brothers... 4 turtles..." + Winters and the portal planetary alignment Hercules ripoff origin) so I deleted that out and add in the first teaser (the one where they posed with their weapons and Mikey fell from the sky into a garbage container. Rendering takes 2 hours.

I might wanna edit out TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze next - axing out Keeno, cringeworthy tame weaponless fights and other pointless things. It's like I'm being cleansed from the cringyness of the past.

TMNTInsighter
07-09-2016, 05:46 PM
Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. I hated the intro with the long winded narrator ("4 brothers... 4 turtles..." ...

I agree. Definitely overrated.

pferreira
07-14-2016, 08:06 AM
Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. Any chance you could edit out Kevin Smith? :lol:

Powder
07-14-2016, 05:18 PM
What's wrong with his microscopic cameo?

ProactiveMan
07-14-2016, 08:04 PM
I might wanna edit out TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze next - axing out Keeno, cringeworthy tame weaponless fights and other pointless things. It's like I'm being cleansed from the cringyness of the past.

It sounds like a fun project for a rainy afternoon, but if you cut all of that stuff out the movie will be 20 minutes long and make no sense.

pferreira
07-21-2016, 08:58 AM
What's wrong with his microscopic cameo?It felt very self indulgent.

Powder
07-21-2016, 03:00 PM
Do you know the circumstances of his involvement or are you assuming he just ran up to someone working on the film & said "Give me a line!". :trolleye:

d_osborn
07-21-2016, 03:29 PM
Do you know the circumstances of his involvement or are you assuming he just ran up to someone working on the film & said "Give me a line!". :trolleye:
You know, I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Smith discussed being approached/working on the movie in one of his big Q&A DVDs.

pferreira
07-28-2016, 02:47 PM
You know, I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Smith discussed being approached/working on the movie in one of his big Q&A DVDs.If a movie franchise is brought back you can bet Smith will be asked or lobby to be involved somehow. I roll my eyes when he appears in returning franchise movies or TV shows.

WebLurker
10-05-2016, 09:36 AM
I recently got to see the movie. As a fan introduced through the Nick show, I felt generally at home (April knowing martial arts, for example).

As far as the question goes, I kind of think its its own thing. The designs are different. April has a very different job and has clearly been training for an extended period of time. Splinter has an intact Shredder helmet, while the Shredder's helmet did not survive intact in the original series. The easter egg references to the original movies could only suggest that stuff like them happened, not that the movie is in continuity. Finally, "Turtles Forever" establishes that the live action movies and TMNT are separate realties.

Tetsu Deinonychus
11-09-2016, 12:50 PM
I tend to think of it as a loose sequel to the original trilogy, but yeah a lot obviously had to have happened between the two.

I think it's a better continuation than Next Mutation, though.

thundermaster612
11-09-2016, 03:27 PM
About the thing Kappa quoted on the other page. I think Splinter is wearing Master Yoshi's robe. That would be interesting.

I only sometimes consider it's canon. I don't want to be too sure that it is till we get a real confirmation

Coola Yagami
01-22-2017, 02:29 PM
About the thing Kappa quoted on the other page. I think Splinter is wearing Master Yoshi's robe. That would be interesting.

I only sometimes consider it's canon. I don't want to be too sure that it is till we get a real confirmation

Real confirmation is watching all 4 movies yourself. See how the characters look and act in the first 3 and tell me you envision those same characters somehow working in TMNT 2007. I really don't see Judith/Paige as a globe trotting ninja archaeologist, nor do I see movie Splinter sending movie Leo on a world trek when he mostly wants them to stay hidden in the sewers. Then they need jobs all of a sudden just because Leo left? Was he the breadwinner in the first 3 movies and somehow we never knew about it? How did Splinter regrow his ear?

I know people change and all, but these guys in the 2007 movie are completely different characters.

superstaff
02-01-2017, 02:41 PM
(And seriously, the Nightwatcher arc needs to be brought up again. It's a pretty damn good story for Raph)

I have to agree. That was one of the best things in the movie, and it'd make a hella awesome arc in a comic or cartoon series.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-01-2017, 03:27 PM
I have to agree. That was one of the best things in the movie, and it'd make a hella awesome arc in a comic or cartoon series.

The entire concept of the turtles splitting up when growing older should be more played on in current and later versions.

superstaff
02-01-2017, 03:32 PM
The entire concept of the turtles splitting up when growing older should be more played on in current and later versions.

I do like the idea of the group going off to live their own lives then coming back together to accomplish a common goal. I mean, it doesn't even need to be that they had a falling out though that would regenerate the most drama, I guess. I believe the final volume of the Mirage Comics had something like that going on, unless I'm mistaken, which never got resolved.

Andrew NDB
02-01-2017, 03:35 PM
I would like to have believed that the ultimate goal of the Mirage future TMNT was that they would first learn to live independently of one another, then eventually learn to come back together at times when need be or whatever, but ultimately still get on with their solo lives. But never forgetting the good times together.

Because that's kind of how it's supposed to work in life. You don't just, like, plant down roots and hang out with dad and your siblings just living with them your whole life. I mean, I guess you could, but that's not really the way it's supposed to work.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-01-2017, 03:36 PM
I do like the idea of the group going off to live their own lives then coming back together to accomplish a common goal. I mean, it doesn't even need to be that they had a falling out though that would regenerate the most drama, I guess. I believe the final volume of the Mirage Comics had something like that going on, unless I'm mistaken, which never got resolved.

The concept was as early as "Splinter Vanishes" (great episode with former enemies Rat King and Leatherhead teaming up), even if it was just temporary.

Coola Yagami
02-01-2017, 07:22 PM
I do like the silly concept that just because someone leaves all of a sudden they have to get jobs. This happened in the 2007 movie when Leo left but why? Was he the breadwinner and suddenly the others had to pick up his slack in his absence? Same with 'Splinter vanishes', he leaves and suddenly jobs become important. Why?

THGhost
02-01-2017, 07:28 PM
I guess I do. It's supposed to be, right? There's stuff seen in a closet from previous movies, including the sceptre from TMNT III. Unless that was meant as a simple easter egg.

superstaff
02-01-2017, 08:28 PM
I do like the silly concept that just because someone leaves all of a sudden they have to get jobs. This happened in the 2007 movie when Leo left but why? Was he the breadwinner and suddenly the others had to pick up his slack in his absence? Same with 'Splinter vanishes', he leaves and suddenly jobs become important. Why?

Well, in TMNT, I saw it as them needing distractions from the fact they were drifting apart, and were beginning to transition into a mundane lifestyle. Michaelangelo, always being the social goofball, just liked the birthday party gigs. Donatello probably wanted something to help stimulate his intellect...and tech support was not the way to go. Raphael didn't actually have a job, I think, though he definitely wanted to let off steam and feel like he was contributing to keeping the city safe even if it wasn't on a grand scale.

In the 80s cartoon, well, it was just silly fun as usual. :tsmile:

pferreira
02-02-2017, 08:17 AM
In the 80s cartoon, well, it was just silly fun as usual. :tsmile:Erm I wouldn't call their father leaving without saying goodbye and then having to fend for themselves silly fun. I was quite shocked when I first saw Splinter Vanishes. It's a bit of a cop out towards the end but it's one of the stronger episodes of Season 4.

superstaff
02-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Erm I wouldn't call their father leaving without saying goodbye and then having to fend for themselves silly fun. I was quite shocked when I first saw Splinter Vanishes. It's a bit of a cop out towards the end but it's one of the stronger episodes of Season 4.

I meant that the show itself was that, not the situation. Even when the show got serious (well, the earlier seasons), there was always an undercurrent of cheesiness to it.

MathUser
02-07-2017, 08:42 AM
Speaking of TMNT 2007, I'm editing the movie myself to enhance the enjoyment. I hated the intro with the long winded narrator ("4 brothers... 4 turtles..." + Winters and the portal planetary alignment Hercules ripoff origin) so I deleted that out and add in the first teaser (the one where they posed with their weapons and Mikey fell from the sky into a garbage container. Rendering takes 2 hours.

I might wanna edit out TMNT 2 Secret of the Ooze next - axing out Keeno, cringeworthy tame weaponless fights and other pointless things. It's like I'm being cleansed from the cringyness of the past.


Reminds me of when someone edited Bee movie to remove bees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eagjpMz2hHU

Wildcat
02-08-2017, 12:02 AM
I'm guessing it probably should be. They have Shredder's helmet, Time Scepter and broken canister. I wouldn't call them easter eggs. They're very obviously shown to be trophies along with the new stuff.

Reading through the comments some think it's too different of a movie itself but it could take place a long time after the 90s movies. Things just changed and this is what's happening now.

Whether it was officially meant to be doesn't really matter. It works either way.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 09:00 AM
It's CGI. It doesn't belong next to the live action movies.

There's the Original cartoon fro 87-96, 2003 4kids, the 2012 nick toon, and the 2007 movie goes in with those.

Andrew NDB
02-08-2017, 10:03 AM
This thread remains pretty dumb. TMNT (2007) was widely lauded as a continuation of at least TMNT I and II by the writer/director when it came out, and then we saw the movie and it even had TMNT III stuff in there, too. Period. Non-issue.

"B-but maybe it can take place in the 2K3 TMNT ser -- " No.

"B-but there was stuff in the Mirage prequel comics tha -- " No.

"B-but it's CGI so it can't possibly be a sequel to -- " No.

Stop it.

It's TMNT 4, not just for all intents and purposes but going off of every press release, every interview with Munroe on the matter.

WebLurker
02-08-2017, 10:29 AM
This thread remains pretty dumb. TMNT (2007) was widely lauded as a continuation of at least TMNT I and II by the writer/director when it came out, and then we saw the movie and it even had TMNT III stuff in there, too. Period. Non-issue.

"B-but maybe it can take place in the 2K3 TMNT ser -- " No.

"B-but there was stuff in the Mirage prequel comics tha -- " No.

"B-but it's CGI so it can't possibly be a sequel to -- " No.

Stop it.

It's TMNT 4, not just for all intents and purposes but going off of every press release, every interview with Munroe on the matter.

Turtles Forever establishes that the 2007 movie and the live action trilogies are separate worlds/dimensions/whatever/.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 11:15 AM
This thread remains pretty dumb. TMNT (2007) was widely lauded as a continuation of at least TMNT I and II by the writer/director when it came out, and then we saw the movie and it even had TMNT III stuff in there, too. Period. Non-issue.

"B-but maybe it can take place in the 2K3 TMNT ser -- " No.

"B-but there was stuff in the Mirage prequel comics tha -- " No.

"B-but it's CGI so it can't possibly be a sequel to -- " No.

Stop it.

It's TMNT 4, not just for all intents and purposes but going off of every press release, every interview with Munroe on the matter.

Remember that show Whammy? When you hit the little Whammy dude and life sucked? Your post is just like that.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

No dude, a CGI movie is separate from the live actions. You can twist it around however you see fit, it just doesn't make any sense.

It isn't really in line with anything else. Yeah it was a movie, but when its CGI and not live actions like the rest of the "movies" to me, it's just a really long cartoon episode.

You can't have 5 live actions movies then have 1 CGI movie and consider them in the same group. You just can't.

What?

What?

Andrew NDB
02-08-2017, 11:25 AM
Remember that show Whammy? When you hit the little Whammy dude and life sucked? Your post is just like that.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

No dude, a CGI movie is separate from the live actions. You can twist it around however you see fit, it just doesn't make any sense.

It isn't really in line with anything else. Yeah it was a movie, but when its CGI and not live actions like the rest of the "movies" to me, it's just a really long cartoon episode.

You can't have 5 live actions movies then have 1 CGI movie and consider them in the same group. You just can't.

What?

What?

So the director/writer was lying to us all, and on many occasions? He doesn't get to make those determinations?

You're a moron.

Candy Kappa
02-08-2017, 11:51 AM
So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place :lol:

ABrown
02-08-2017, 12:07 PM
I guess when I watch the CGI TMNT movie, I don't feel like I'm watching a sequel to the first three movies. The stuff in the trophy room just seems like nods to the three live movies. I'm not saying the movie is or is not a sequel to the other three. I'm just saying it's not the impression that I get when I watch the movie.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-08-2017, 12:15 PM
So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place :lol:

I know, right? That's like saying all of the Firefly comics Joss Whedon has written aren't canon and the Firefly story stopped with Serenity. :trazz:

Medium means jack; writer/creator intent means EVERYTHING.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a

live a c t i o n movie..

moron what?

I never said it was non-canon. Sounds like a bunch of liberals flooding things into other's mouths.

I never said the storyline didn't include anything from the 1st 3 movies. I never said that. I never said the director was lying. I never said any of that.

What I did say t00lboy is that a CGI film shouldn't be grouped with the 1st 3 live actions movies... it is too different.

You're abrasive tone Andrew got you smacked in my post. Glad I got the "you're a moron" reply.

Proves my point... salt just sprinkled from your mouth

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-08-2017, 12:33 PM
So, what does "grouped" mean in this context then, and what does being "liberal" have to do with any of this (does EVERYTHING have to be about politics now)?

I don't think we should be calling each other "morons", but I have to disagree with you on this.

Candy Kappa
02-08-2017, 12:37 PM
Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

That is what you are implying when you are writing this:

No dude, a CGI movie is separate from the live actions. You can twist it around however you see fit, it just doesn't make any sense.

It isn't really in line with anything else. Yeah it was a movie, but when its CGI and not live actions like the rest of the "movies" to me, it's just a really long cartoon episode.

You can't have 5 live actions movies then have 1 CGI movie and consider them in the same group. You just can't.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 12:40 PM
LoL

Talk about twisting someone's words around.

A CGI movie that came out like 14 years after the previous film that isn't live action like the previous 3 is a standalone.

It's canon sure. Of course it is, but it isn't TMNT #4.

FredWolfLeonardo
02-08-2017, 12:45 PM
Turtles Forever saw them as seperate universes

Candy Kappa
02-08-2017, 12:49 PM
Turtles Forever saw them as seperate universes

TF also showed artworks from the same universe as "separate universes" so that's not really all that substantial.

FredWolfLeonardo
02-08-2017, 12:54 PM
TF also showed artworks from the same universe as "separate universes" so that's not really all that substantial.

I personally enjoy having them both be in the same universe, as it gives the 2007 turtles backstory and depth. Its cool thinking they were the same ones who fought Shredder in the 1990 film, or the ones who fought Razhar and Tokka in the secret of the Ooze. Same goes for the 80s series and the 2 part OVA in Japan.

ToTheNines
02-08-2017, 01:47 PM
You don't need to gang up on him. He's obviously having trouble understanding.

First of all, RaphaelsIsolation, I agree that it is not a sequel to the trilogy. But saying it's because of the CGI is a fallacy. The 2007 movie has prequels that are black and white comic books... different medium, same continuity.

So the director/writer was lying to us all, and on many occasions? He doesn't get to make those determinations?

You're a moron.

So we've had this same thread pop up a thousand times, and you always just put your hands over you ears and scream "lalalaKevinMunroelalalalaIcanthearyoulalalaKevinMu nroe".

Yes, that counts for something. (Personally I think it was his lazy way of saying that these turtles have a past and you need a mild working knowledge of TMNT going in). You can file the director's saying so in the "for" side of the "for and against list". But let's talk about the "against":

- Not a single returning voice actor or attempt to mimic live action cast.

- Not a single familiar musical cue.

- Completely different aesthetic design.

- Not a single returning original character from the trilogy (Penningtons, Stern, Keno, Tatsu)

- Not titled TMNT 4.

- Clearly takes place in the mid-2000's, yet only 2-3 years have passed since the early 90's?

- Splinter has both ears.

All that right there speaks WAY more to the "writer/creator intent" than any bullcrap answer given to some IGN interviewer.

Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a

live a c t i o n movie..

moron what?

I never said it was non-canon. Sounds like a bunch of liberals flooding things into other's mouths.

I never said the storyline didn't include anything from the 1st 3 movies. I never said that. I never said the director was lying. I never said any of that.

What I did say t00lboy is that a CGI film shouldn't be grouped with the 1st 3 live actions movies... it is too different.

You're abrasive tone Andrew got you smacked in my post. Glad I got the "you're a moron" reply.

Proves my point... salt just sprinkled from your mouth

Now I think you're confused as to what "canon" means.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 02:56 PM
Wait? What?

I'm saying that TMNT 2007 is canon. They were trying to twist it around that I was saying that it wasn't canon.

I mean who thinks TMNT 2007 isn't canon? I don't.

I guess TO The NInes thinks it is non-canon in the TMNT universe. That's cool

Andrew NDB
02-08-2017, 03:07 PM
- Not a single returning voice actor or attempt to mimic live action cast.

They replaced whole voice cast members between the existing live action movies, this seems neither here nor there.

- Not a single familiar musical cue.

False. The Splinter's theme/the family theme had quite a bit of audible callbacks to Splinter's theme in the first movie.

- Completely different aesthetic design.

Well yeah, it's CGI. Though I think we'd have all preferred a more lifelike, Final Fantasy: Spirits Within-kind of aesthetic, I think that was well beyond the reach of their limited budget.

- Not a single returning original character from the trilogy

Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michelangelo, April, Casey, Splinter. I count 7.

And I'm not sure they could have included Danny, or Tatsu, or Pennington any more than IDW or Nick can even if they wanted to (i.e., they legally can't). Last I heard those character rights were tied up with Golden Harvest or whatever.

- Not titled TMNT 4.

Irrelevant. Even the horrible live action TMNT 4 we almost got with Kirby the Campy Turtle and Julie Strain as an enchantress from another dimension wasn't going to be called TMNT 4, but be TMNT: New Generation or various other things they were throwing around. At no time was "TMNT 4" ever the title to be, in any incarnation.

- Clearly takes place in the mid-2000's, yet only 2-3 years have passed since the early 90's?

Lots of franchises play with time like that. A CGI TMNT 4 in 2007 set in, like, 1994 for the then-today's audience was never going to happen.

- Splinter has both ears.

A particularly odd choice, sure, but hardly proof positive to throw out everything the director/writer has ever firmly affirmed about the film since before Day One.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 03:16 PM
So a different medium is what makes it noncanon? That's some of the dumbest stuff I've read on the 'Drome, and I've seen some **** in this place :lol:

And to all you guys trying to make me look stupid about not knowing what canon means or whatever...

This clown brought up the word "canon" and I just went with it. So maybe she doesn't know when the proper use is of the word.

Anyways...

Powder
02-08-2017, 03:51 PM
I don't think you actually do understand what canon means in this context.

The argument is whether or not TMNT 2007 takes place in the same universe as the original live action trilogy, picking up where they left off a number of years later. That is what the film was intended to be, according to its writer/director, Kevin Munroe.

You say that it is canon, yet not a part of that universe. That's an oxymoron, it can't be both. It either is, or isn't directly tied to those movies (& it was supposed to be, whether or not we agree or like that notion).

You seem to think that canon means it simply exists, but of course it does, all TMNT iterations do. It's not a matter of discrediting it as being an official entry in TMNT history, the discussion is about its validity as a pseudo-sequel to a pre-existing series.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 03:55 PM
Right, but I didn't even bring "canon" into this. Candy kappa did.

So there's that. I just went along with it.

I guess maybe I wasn't specific enough, but what I meant man... is a CGI film can't be grouped together with live action movies. It might have the same continuity or whatever, but they are different.

I just separate them. 14 year gap, 0 Eastman involvement and computer movie opposed to an "actual" movie.

For me they are different. I guess the context I was stating canon wasn't making much sense, but I never brought that word into it.

Like I said.

Thanks for the reply poweder. Your artwork is insanely good as always.

ToTheNines
02-08-2017, 04:13 PM
They replaced whole voice cast members between the existing live action movies, this seems neither here nor there.

True, but that was for contractual reasons, I'm sure. Imagi could have brought some back if they wanted to. But they didn't.

False. The Splinter's theme/the family theme had quite a bit of audible callbacks to Splinter's theme in the first movie.

I stand corrected.

Well yeah, it's CGI. Though I think we'd have all preferred a more lifelike, Final Fantasy: Spirits Within-kind of aesthetic, I think that was well beyond the reach of their limited budget.

I didn't mean it like that. At the very least, Splinter and the turtles could have looked more like their Henson designs.

Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michelangelo, April, Casey, Splinter. I count 7.

They are original to the comics. Circa 1984. The movie didn't come out until 1990.

And I'm not sure they could have included Danny, or Tatsu, or Pennington any more than IDW or Nick can even if they wanted to (i.e., they legally can't). Last I heard those character rights were tied up with Golden Harvest or whatever.

Right. But imagine a Fred Wolf "follow up" series (with way different character designs and no returning voice talent) that didn't even have Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang that David Wise said was hard canon.

I bet a lot of people would argue that it wasn't in continuity.

Irrelevant. Even the horrible live action TMNT 4 we almost got with Kirby the Campy Turtle and Julie Strain as an enchantress from another dimension wasn't going to be called TMNT 4, but be TMNT: New Generation or various other things they were throwing around. At no time was "TMNT 4" ever the title to be, in any incarnation.

Fair enough. Just seemed like they were distancing themselves from the trilogy to me.


Lots of franchises play with time like that. A CGI TMNT 4 in 2007 set in, like, 1994 for the then-today's audience was never going to happen.

I don't see how not. Period pieces are certainly more common than sequels that blatantly ignore the passage of time.

And I think people would have loved a TMNT movie that literally took you back to the 90's, retro soundtrack and all.


A particularly odd choice, sure, but hardly proof positive to throw out everything the director/writer has ever firmly affirmed about the film since before Day One.

Just because the creator says something retarded dosen't make it true. Peter Laird would say that The River isn't Mirage canon. Even though Sons of the Silent Age directly references it.

Anyways, Munroe also once said this in an interview:

---

AV: How does your film fit into the Turtles universe? For instance, is it more of a continuation to the first three films, or the latest TV series?

KM: You know, it’s funny. There’s so much you can do. There’s so much in the Turtles’ past, as far as adventures and stuff. So, when we first started, we were trying to find what we were going to say – what was going to be lore and what wasn’t, for the movie. At the end of the day, we realized, “Let’s just make the whole thing lore.”

Basically, they’ve lived all these adventures, and they’ve defeated all these villains. Now they find themselves without direction, because they don’t have a common enemy to fight anymore. The movie became more about a rebirth of the heroes, instead of an origin story.

---
Source:
http://animatedviews.com/2007/director-kevin-munroe-on-tmnt/

pferreira
02-09-2017, 08:44 AM
I meant that the show itself was that, not the situation. Even when the show got serious (well, the earlier seasons), there was always an undercurrent of cheesiness to it.The show was aimed at kids so I feel a bit of cheesiness is allowed. :lol:

Seriously? I never said it was non-canon.

It is canon... but it can't be grouped in with the live action movies... because it i s n ' t a While the 2007 is canon I've never considered it part of the original movies as so much as acting as a reboot of them. To me the 2007 film takes place in a different canon. Apart from the bit at the end where it shows trophies from the previous three movies the 2007 movie never sold me on it being a fourth movie. I mean from memory it includes the Purple Dragon gang at one point to satisfy the 4Kids generation. Clearly it's not part of that universe but it does try to lean that way. For the 2007 movie to feel as though it was the fourth movie it needed to convince me more it was a sequel and not just a reboot because apart from a throwaway scene at the end nothing about it screams sequel. The film itself is called 'TMNT' which means it's the first in a new series.

ABrown
02-09-2017, 08:47 AM
I guess it's just easiest for me to think of the CGI Turtles as being different, though they likely experienced many of the same events as the Turtles from the live movies. Hence the trophies you see from the first three movies.

ToTheNines
02-09-2017, 08:53 AM
The trophy room scene? There are more references to Mirage than anything else.

sgtfbomb
02-09-2017, 03:53 PM
I used to, with the trophy scene. But no longer. I also used to like the film. But, once again, no longer.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-11-2017, 06:27 AM
It should be. The same with Next Mutation. All set following the original film trilogy.

ToTheNines
02-11-2017, 06:37 AM
It should be. The same with Next Mutation. All set following the original film trilogy.

You definitely can't have the trilogy, Next Mutation, and 2007 in the same continuity. They're 18 in both TNM and 2007, gotta pick one or the other there.

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-11-2017, 10:49 AM
I always figured that TMNT 2007 replaces Next Mutation in the continuity.

Andrew NDB
02-11-2017, 12:07 PM
They're 18 in both TNM and 2007, gotta pick one or the other there.

They're definitely 17 in TNM (said every www.ninjaturtles.com press release/interview), and I don't recall any references to age in 2007.

ToTheNines
02-11-2017, 03:45 PM
They're definitely 17 in TNM (said every www.ninjaturtles.com press release/interview), and I don't recall any references to age in 2007.

Ah you right, you right.

But I still say that they're incompatible continuities. One or the other can be "part 4", but not both.

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-15-2017, 12:30 PM
Or rather they are both part 4 (two alternate takes on part 4). But, neither is part 5 to the other's part 4. :P

(I know what you meant though, and I agree).

Andrew NDB
02-15-2017, 12:49 PM
Ah you right, you right.

But I still say that they're incompatible continuities. One or the other can be "part 4", but not both.

Correct. Though in the strictest sense, TMNT 2007 (since it came after, long after TNM) retconned TNM from ever having happened at all in the movie timeline.

That is, unless between TNM and TMNT 2007 Venus left and all the Turtles' shells and costumes went back to normal... possible, but that's pretty messy business and definitely not the intent. Though it would have been pretty funny if there was, like, Vam Mi's heart, Bonesteel's coat or the Dragonlord's helmet in the trophy scene in TMNT 2007.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-15-2017, 03:57 PM
If they're the same, 2007 can declare why April isn't in Next Mutation.

pferreira
02-16-2017, 08:10 AM
I guess it's just easiest for me to think of the CGI Turtles as being different, though they likely experienced many of the same events as the Turtles from the live movies. Hence the trophies you see from the first three movies.I totally agree with you on that.

TMNachoT
02-17-2017, 10:00 PM
The last official word came from Peter Laird, he said it wasn't.

dragonside
02-17-2017, 10:47 PM
LOL wow.

From my perspective, I like to see it from the multiverse perspective.

The First three TMNT movies are their own.
Next mutation was disowned, but now reowned. And I'd say thats the closest to TMNT 4.

TMNT 2007 is its own continuity. Now, if they decided to do a proper reboot and make it a quadrilogy, they should started with the shredder. BUT they decided not to because of the 2003 cartoon series.

They wanted everyone to have some sort of connection - old fans and new fans, so they disperse a bunch easter eggs or references, so that its unclear.



Could you imagine the first three films redone in the imagi style? I think that would have been pretty awesome, I liked the imagi version of the turtles.

superstaff
04-02-2017, 07:50 AM
The last official word came from Peter Laird, he said it wasn't.

Source? :ohwell:

Punker
04-21-2017, 08:05 AM
When I first saw this movie, it felt like a long overdue sequel to the original movies. The Turtles were older, they had each started doing their own thing, and it seemed like that was about where they would be in that universe's continuity.

I don't know if it's an official part of that universe, but I'll always consider it to be.

Andrew NDB
04-21-2017, 10:03 AM
I don't know if it's an official part of that universe, but I'll always consider it to be.

Oh, stop it. Of course it's a part of that universe. Here's an only 3 year-old interview:

http://animatedviews.com/2014/director-kevin-munroe-revisits-imagis-tmnt-franchise/

“The memento wall was a way to try and have TMNT play in continuity with the earlier, live-action films,” explains Munroe. “I probably would have done a complete reboot if presented with the idea. But Pete was pretty adamant about not doing a reboot while not necessarily having TMNT play with the rest of the franchise. So, I just took a stand and said, ‘Yes, TMNT exists with the other films.'”

Mexiun
05-11-2017, 02:34 PM
Never really thought of that before, i just thought it was a stand-alone movie with it's own story/universe.

I didn't really like the movie much, it wasn't bad but the villian was boring.
And i didn't like Splinters voice, as my girlfriend said "He sounds like a drunk yoda" :lol:

billbot85
05-28-2017, 04:28 PM
To me, the 2007 movie always felt like a stand-alone film in it's own universe. I never felt it was connected to the 90's live action films, but I maybe i'd think differently if I re-watch it sometime soon.