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Allio
07-01-2016, 10:54 AM
Anyone else feel like this regarding the nick incarnation. It feels like since season three, the episodes have been "It's alright, but could have been better" type of format.

TurtleTitan97
07-01-2016, 10:55 AM
No, not really. I still enjoy the majority of episodes for the most part.

CyberCubed
07-01-2016, 10:57 AM
The show is fine. Watch the same people come here and post the same complaints from the previous threads over and over.

TurtleTitan97
07-01-2016, 11:02 AM
You mean like what you usually do, Cubed?

GoldMutant
07-01-2016, 11:04 AM
The show is fine. Watch the same people come here and post the same complaints from the previous threads over and over.

You mean Asian Hun? The Neutrinos? Then later after discussion, "this thread needs to be locked?"

Considering I've been more critical of the series though, yes. There are episodes I still hate, but some I scratch my head that could have been improved on.

CyberCubed
07-01-2016, 11:11 AM
I'm talking about the episodes, they're fine. Obviously not every character itself is good or interesting.

GoldMutant
07-01-2016, 11:16 AM
I'm talking about the episodes, they're fine. Obviously not every character itself is good or interesting.

I am pointing out what TT said about you with these complaints, but I digress.

As for the series, the space arc to me is an issue as are episodes scattered across the series. I'll include a link to the space arc post I made a while back:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1572238&postcount=113

Outside this, I can continue complaints but overall it's the same thing I'll repeat. It's certainly disappointing lately for me and I'm hoping for improvement, even if far gone.

Aaronardo
07-01-2016, 12:42 PM
Watch an episode of Season 1. Any episode. Pick one. Then watch an episode of Season 3 or 4. There is a noticeable decline in quality. Whether you like these newer episodes or not (I personally like quite a few, but I agree with the OP that a lot of them could've been done better), it's very apparent this show is a shadow of what it could've been. Which is incredibly unfortunate.

CyberCubed
07-01-2016, 01:34 PM
There's no real difference. Season 1 is just when everything was starting out and we were getting used to the new personalities of the Turtles and all the characters.

The fillers in Season 1 about the Cockroach Terminator, the Wasps, Timmy's first two eps (I know they weren't fillers but either way), the one with the go-karts and water balloons, etc are not any better or different than the ones now.

GoldMutant
07-01-2016, 01:56 PM
There's no real difference. Season 1 is just when everything was starting out and we were getting used to the new personalities of the Turtles and all the characters.

The fillers in Season 1 about the Cockroach Terminator, the Wasps, Timmy's first two eps (I know they weren't fillers but either way), the one with the go-karts and water balloons, etc are not any better or different than the ones now.

LOL what? (turnabout's fair play) The go-kart and water balloon episode is not filler in the slightest. It clearly contributes to the story due to Dogpound's debut in battle as well as the Shredder nightmare, as did Tim/Mutagen Man (even if a dead horse).

Aaronardo
07-01-2016, 02:33 PM
The fillers in Season 1 about the Cockroach Terminator, the Wasps, Timmy's first two eps (I know they weren't fillers but either way), the one with the go-karts and water balloons, etc are not any better or different than the ones now.

When I watch Cockroach Terminator or Parasitica or any other Season 1 "filler," I don't feel like I walked away empty-handed like I do if I watch a filler from Season 3. Season 1 simply had better writing. Even with a premise that is incredibly worthless (like some of the episodes of that season), the writers for that season made sure there was enough well-directed humor and character interactions to make it an episode you want to watch again and again.

Seasons 3 and 4 simply don't have that. Season 2 somewhat continued the trend, but 3 and 4 just utterly abandoned it. Character dynamics that involved characters bantering and bickering with each other? Gone. A healthy dose of smart humor to add a backbone to the plot that's currently going on? Gone. (Maybe you'll see some off-the-wall joke here or there). The things that made the writing in Seasons 1 and 2 so interesting and fun to watch? It's all gone.

A new episode of this show used to mean fun to come as well as the interesting plot and action for me. Now, without that important layer, this show has become a chore to watch, unfortunately.

plastroncafe
07-01-2016, 02:51 PM
Anyone else feel like this regarding the nick incarnation. It feels like since season three, the episodes have been "It's alright, but could have been better" type of format.

I know that I do.
As I've always said: the voice work and animation are always stellar, but the stories in the later seasons don't resonate with me as strongly as the ones from season 1.

CyberCubed
07-01-2016, 03:12 PM
That's strange, I found the Cockroach Terminator episode boring even when it originally aired back in 2013 or so. The eps haven't changed. We're just used to the character dynamics now.

Everything is awesome.

Powder
07-01-2016, 03:33 PM
Pretty sure this same thread exists already with the same title 'n urrythang.

The only wasted potential that comes to mind for me is that the tone has gotten goofier & there are some characters whose circumstances I'd have preferred seen addressed sooner. Beyond that, & the way Raph X Mona was handled, I've found it to be near perfect since the get-go.

Ninturtle
07-01-2016, 04:36 PM
When I watch Cockroach Terminator or Parasitica or any other Season 1 "filler," I don't feel like I walked away empty-handed like I do if I watch a filler from Season 3. Season 1 simply had better writing. Even with a premise that is incredibly worthless (like some of the episodes of that season), the writers for that season made sure there was enough well-directed humor and character interactions to make it an episode you want to watch again and again.

Seasons 3 and 4 simply don't have that. Season 2 somewhat continued the trend, but 3 and 4 just utterly abandoned it. Character dynamics that involved characters bantering and bickering with each other? Gone. A healthy dose of smart humor to add a backbone to the plot that's currently going on? Gone. (Maybe you'll see some off-the-wall joke here or there). The things that made the writing in Seasons 1 and 2 so interesting and fun to watch? It's all gone.

A new episode of this show used to mean fun to come as well as the interesting plot and action for me. Now, without that important layer, this show has become a chore to watch, unfortunately.

Honestly I found Season 2 to be the biggest step down because the show wasn't nearly as funny as season 1 which was a huge bummer. There's good episodes every now and then, and some new addition like Bebop and Rocksteady are ones that I really like but the shows writing just doesn't compare to season 1's.

Aaronardo
07-01-2016, 05:02 PM
Honestly I found Season 2 to be the biggest step down because the show wasn't nearly as funny as season 1 which was a huge bummer. There's good episodes every now and then, and some new addition like Bebop and Rocksteady are ones that I really like but the shows writing just doesn't compare to season 1's.

Fair enough. I guess I have a bit of nostalgia for Season 2 as I've probably rewatched the hell out of most of those episodes :P

I think if I had to pinpoint the exact episode where the show just kinda got derailed (at least for me), I'd say Mazes & Mutants (which was in Season 2) was the first episode I was incredibly disappointed with. And then a string of "eh" episodes followed afterward before The Wrath Of Tiger Claw picked things back up again.

A lot of the humor in the show these days reminds me of when I try to hammer out humor for my own writing. When it doesn't just come into your head and you think "oh, that's funny!" it just feels forced otherwise. And that's exactly what the humor in the show (with what little there is) is like. Forced. And for a show that doesn't take itself nearly as seriously as it probably should, that's a pretty fatal flaw.

ssjup81
07-01-2016, 05:26 PM
For me, it's about the same, although I like the later episodes more in some ways just as I like some things about the earlier eps that's not done much for the later. With Mikey, oh my god....season 1, with the exception of probably Parasitica, which is a fav for me, btw, Mikey annoyed the living heck out of me. I like him more as the show continues compared to his, "What does this button do" nonsense from season 1.

Anyway, does this show have missed opportunities? Absolutely. Actually, for the space arc, they missed the opportunity to somehow reference the Newtralizer.

ToTheNines
07-01-2016, 05:31 PM
A lot of the humor in the show these days reminds me of when I try to hammer out humor for my own writing. When it doesn't just come into your head and you think "oh, that's funny!" it just feels forced otherwise. And that's exactly what the humor in the show (with what little there is) is like. Forced. And for a show that doesn't take itself nearly as seriously as it probably should, that's a pretty fatal flaw.

Yeah, they lost a step there. It's funny sometimes, but season 1 was unbelievably hilarious.

T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!
07-01-2016, 05:36 PM
I think the show is still awesome and has found ways to do things that not a single incarnation of a TMNT toon has managed to do. It can actually elicit genuine emotion. Watching Shredder seemingly stab Splinter in the back and maybe kill him was a great moment. Watching the Turtles react to that moment was also a great moment. Donnie's reaction to losing Metalhead was an emotional moment as well. Vision Quest is a great episode well in to the series. This is a great show and I honestly feel like the only people that really hate on it are just hipster fanboys trying to sound cool. To say that there has been some huge decline in quality since season one is just absurd and stupid on its face.

Donatello19
07-01-2016, 06:11 PM
Honestly my only problem was that the space episodes kind of seemed like a chore to watch.

Splinter the boss
07-01-2016, 08:14 PM
Wasted potential? Yes. It is those unresolved plots that I can't take anymore. Just Imagine it, The Karai situation could have been resolved long ago and we could have had her on the team by now. At least, that would give us something to look forward to after the break. Same thing with Timothy, it has been ages since Donatello said he was going to fix him and never did. Had he been fixed already, he could have been a solo character right now or part of the mutanimals etc..., so many possibilities.

Oh well, it's an animated show, we can't expect perfection.

TMNTInsighter
07-01-2016, 10:01 PM
Wasted potential? Yes. It is those unresolved plots that I can't take anymore. Just Imagine it, The Karai situation could have been resolved long ago and we could have had her on the team by now. At least, that would give us something to look forward to after the break. Same thing with Timothy, it has been ages since Donatello said he was going to fix him and never did. Had he been fixed already, he could have been a solo character right now or part of the mutanimals etc..., so many possibilities.

Oh well, it's an animated show, we can't expect perfection.

You've pretty much nailed it right there. As far as I've seen, it's also happened on a certain episode basis. Obviously, some point out that the tones from Season 1 and its later seasons are different as the turtles are growing up and facing darker situations. Leo's favorite show is cancelled, he had to step up in the finale, he's faced lost love, he was broken in more ways than one by his arch nemesis, and has had to fight and make decisions he never thought about way back when things were lighter and simpler in S1. But the tone's not what's wrong with these later episodes, it's about attention to detail and fitting in those little things that really drove certain S1 episodes.

Look at what "The Gauntlet" was able to cover in 22 minutes. Then, with episodes such as "Mikey Gets Shellacne" and "The Deadly Venom", which not only felt like you were dumped right into the middle of the story instead of the beginning, but also missed opportunities (even obvious ones) to add depth and development. In TDV for example, they had the henchmutants right at the beginning of the episode but they never focused on their thoughts or reactions to Shredder's action against Karai--more specifically Tiger Claw as he and Karai had been bickering like one of those old married couples who were fun to watch. With her back and as the kind of person Shredder always wanted her as, did it mean that he had her back as 2nd in command and whether or not that was the case, what did TC think of all this attention towards her and that he has to work with her again? There are other things but I'll cut it there. Speaking of Karai, while I liked how "The Fourfold Trap" concluded in its final scene similarly to how "The Invasion" concluded, the road to get there was awful! I basically just think they've lost this ability to use their 22 minute window to their full advantage.

We could do with more episodes like "Annihilation Earth" which not only takes some of the earlier seasons' strengths (ex. "Enemy of my Enemy", "The Invasion", etc.) but also builds on them.

Electric
07-01-2016, 11:34 PM
I'll be honest, despite loving this series, I do fee there has been a decline.

But I also honestly believe it's solely stemmed from these new plots. The farm house and Space episode I feel were the lowest quality. Space just felt so rushed, and maybe it was because they introduced new planets and characters every episode that they didn't have time to focus on plot.

I really think the episode quality will drastically improve now that they're back in New York. And I have now doubt some of the other plots will pick right back up.

I'm actually annoyed when people keep bitching about the Karai plot. No one wants that resolved more than me, as she's one of my favorite characters. But the show has not abandoned it. Ever since she's been transformed they have been looking for her. Even if it's just a quick intro of them out searching before being sidetracked by something else. And maybe it's felt abandoned because they've been in space for the past however many episodes. But that's only going to make it more meaningful when it's resolved. Karais plot has continually been brought up and addressed. Just because it wasn't resolved in two episodes doesn't mean it's abandoned.

The only plot that I fee really has been left alone (that maybe deserved more) was Timonthy. But you know what, the show still has time for Donnie to come back to it.

T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!
07-02-2016, 04:34 AM
I'll be honest, despite loving this series, I do fee there has been a decline.

But I also honestly believe it's solely stemmed from these new plots. The farm house and Space episode I feel were the lowest quality. Space just felt so rushed, and maybe it was because they introduced new planets and characters every episode that they didn't have time to focus on plot.

I really think the episode quality will drastically improve now that they're back in New York. And I have now doubt some of the other plots will pick right back up.

I'm actually annoyed when people keep bitching about the Karai plot. No one wants that resolved more than me, as she's one of my favorite characters. But the show has not abandoned it. Ever since she's been transformed they have been looking for her. Even if it's just a quick intro of them out searching before being sidetracked by something else. And maybe it's felt abandoned because they've been in space for the past however many episodes. But that's only going to make it more meaningful when it's resolved. Karais plot has continually been brought up and addressed. Just because it wasn't resolved in two episodes doesn't mean it's abandoned.

The only plot that I fee really has been left alone (that maybe deserved more) was Timonthy. But you know what, the show still has time for Donnie to come back to it.
Donnie also promised Metalhead he would fix him as well and that's one of the things I'd like to see them return back to. However, I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking something has taken a hit in quality simply because it isn't fulfilling a certain desire that we might have for it on a personal level. I still think the show has top notch production values, stellar voice acting, and goes to great lengths to please the fans of all ages. I mean let's be honest. This show has a huge challenge before it in that it has 3 generations of fans that it tries to please. There's my generation, which is the Fred Wolf generation. Then there's the 4Kids generation. Then there's the current generation. Plus it has even thrown a bone to the early comic book fan generation which actually precedes mine. Now if you are a little kid watching this you really don't care about all the fan service and if you're making this show you have to also try and give it its own identity. I think it's an admirable effort they put forth to strike a perfect balance. If any generation sorta gets left in the cold on this incarnation I'd say it's the 4Kids one. Still I really believe this is the ultimate "For Fans By Fans" version of the Turtles that we may ever see.

drgon78
07-02-2016, 04:55 AM
I have been enjoying the last two seasons more then the first two.

Splinter the boss
07-02-2016, 01:05 PM
I'll be honest, despite loving this series, I do fee there has been a decline.

But I also honestly believe it's solely stemmed from these new plots. The farm house and Space episode I feel were the lowest quality. Space just felt so rushed, and maybe it was because they introduced new planets and characters every episode that they didn't have time to focus on plot.

I really think the episode quality will drastically improve now that they're back in New York. And I have now doubt some of the other plots will pick right back up.

I'm actually annoyed when people keep bitching about the Karai plot. No one wants that resolved more than me, as she's one of my favorite characters. But the show has not abandoned it. Ever since she's been transformed they have been looking for her. Even if it's just a quick intro of them out searching before being sidetracked by something else. And maybe it's felt abandoned because they've been in space for the past however many episodes. But that's only going to make it more meaningful when it's resolved. Karais plot has continually been brought up and addressed. Just because it wasn't resolved in two episodes doesn't mean it's abandoned.

The only plot that I fee really has been left alone (that maybe deserved more) was Timonthy. But you know what, the show still has time for Donnie to come back to it.
Of course the Karai plot would not be resolved in two episodes, it is a plot after all. However, when something so important as this takes this long, it makes people sick and gets them wondering when it is ever going to end.

victory_angel
07-02-2016, 01:54 PM
Donnie also promised Metalhead he would fix him as well and that's one of the things I'd like to see them return back to. However, I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking something has taken a hit in quality simply because it isn't fulfilling a certain desire that we might have for it on a personal level. I still think the show has top notch production values, stellar voice acting, and goes to great lengths to please the fans of all ages. I mean let's be honest. This show has a huge challenge before it in that it has 3 generations of fans that it tries to please. There's my generation, which is the Fred Wolf generation. Then there's the 4Kids generation. Then there's the current generation. Plus it has even thrown a bone to the early comic book fan generation which actually precedes mine. Now if you are a little kid watching this you really don't care about all the fan service and if you're making this show you have to also try and give it its own identity. I think it's an admirable effort they put forth to strike a perfect balance. If any generation sorta gets left in the cold on this incarnation I'd say it's the 4Kids one. Still I really believe this is the ultimate "For Fans By Fans" version of the Turtles that we may ever see.

^This^ Absolutely this. This version tries to be its own version, so it can introduce the Turtles to an all-new generation of fans, but leave things open for the generation of fans that have followed TMNT for the past 30 or so years to follow as well. And the producers artists, writers, are trying to give this series the love and respect the property deserves. After most of the staff are people just like us, the fans who have loved this franchise for the past 30 years in all it's incarnations. And they do try to bring in what was fun from every incarnation that has existed.

The way some people react to ideas and decisions done in the show, there is almost a sense of entitlement with some fans. That we feel we are owed an epic story centered around the TMNT just for being connected and involved with this franchise for the past 30 years.

I do agree the way they have the series hurts the narrative they are trying to set.

I do agree the kids network format does limit the series from going as violent and serious as we feel the show should be. But by and large, this franchise is going to be almost exclusively aimed at children.

Like it or hate it, this is just another version, in a number of years after this series is over there will be another version done by someone else and that will also bring it's own batch of complaints.

And if whoever is involved with it tries to please everyone, they will end up pleasing no one.

Electric
07-03-2016, 08:17 AM
Donnie also promised Metalhead he would fix him as well and that's one of the things I'd like to see them return back to. However, I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking something has taken a hit in quality simply because it isn't fulfilling a certain desire that we might have for it on a personal level. I still think the show has top notch production values, stellar voice acting, and goes to great lengths to please the fans of all ages. I mean let's be honest. This show has a huge challenge before it in that it has 3 generations of fans that it tries to please. There's my generation, which is the Fred Wolf generation. Then there's the 4Kids generation. Then there's the current generation. Plus it has even thrown a bone to the early comic book fan generation which actually precedes mine. Now if you are a little kid watching this you really don't care about all the fan service and if you're making this show you have to also try and give it its own identity. I think it's an admirable effort they put forth to strike a perfect balance. If any generation sorta gets left in the cold on this incarnation I'd say it's the 4Kids one. Still I really believe this is the ultimate "For Fans By Fans" version of the Turtles that we may ever see.

I completely agree. And as what I'd consider as the 4kids Generation, who is relatively left out, the show still has a lot of fan service that we can recognize.

Of course the Karai plot would not be resolved in two episodes, it is a plot after all. However, when something so important as this takes this long, it makes people sick and gets them wondering when it is ever going to end.

I'm sorry but, so what? The reason it's seemed so long is the past 10 (or whatever) episodes have removed them from earth, trying to deal with a bigger problem. Now, if by the end of this season that Karai plot hasn't progressed, it may be stretching it out too far, but up until now there's no reason to be getting "sick" because of it. It's a huge plot, has been the focus of multiple episodes and has been addressed in many others. Relax and have some patience.

Also, consider how this will alter the show when it's resolved. If karai ends on splinters side, the turtles just gained their closest ally who, what, now lives with them? Does she go on every mission? Or if she doesn't pick a side, then what? She leaves the show for awhile? What's her excuse?
The only option that either won't change the dynamic of the show or leave fans missing her is if she somehow ends up back on shredders side.

Coola Yagami
07-03-2016, 03:58 PM
I completely agree. And as what I'd consider as the 4kids Generation, who is relatively left out, the show still has a lot of fan service that we can recognize.



I'm sorry but, so what? The reason it's seemed so long is the past 10 (or whatever) episodes have removed them from earth, trying to deal with a bigger problem. Now, if by the end of this season that Karai plot hasn't progressed, it may be stretching it out too far, but up until now there's no reason to be getting "sick" because of it. It's a huge plot, has been the focus of multiple episodes and has been addressed in many others. Relax and have some patience.

Also, consider how this will alter the show when it's resolved. If karai ends on splinters side, the turtles just gained their closest ally who, what, now lives with them? Does she go on every mission? Or if she doesn't pick a side, then what? She leaves the show for awhile? What's her excuse?
The only option that either won't change the dynamic of the show or leave fans missing her is if she somehow ends up back on shredders side.

The show needs to be dynamic like that though. Why NOT have Karai join the team and stay with them for half a season or so? It's no different than having April fight and use psychic powers now. It's that kind of limited thinking that makes me wish cartoons were more like the comics. Too afraid to think outside the box.

The IDW comics went from 3 Turtles and Splinter trying to find Raph, to all of them reunited, to eventually forming a back up fighting team with Casey, Alopex and Angel, to now leading the Foot to Mikey walking out on them and living with the Mutanimals for a while, to being reunited again. It changes all the time. If Alopex can live with them in the comic for several issues, why the hell can't Karai live with them for half a season?

They're more willing to spend half a season in the woods or in space than to make Karai one of the good guys. It's stupid.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
07-03-2016, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I can definitely see the wasted potential that some are talking about.

For example, on how characters like Mikey and Raph have been written...those two have a lot of potential for stuff that could've been tapped to a much higher degree.

Instead of just a 'love/crush/whatever it is' thing that we already did with Leo/Karai, Don/April and so forth for Raph...how about have Raph & Mikey be more sad about the loss of their dad/planet and Leo & Donnie trying to go forward.

You could even bring back to A Team & B Team, have a bit of heated/brotherly rivalry that shows the strings of the team slightly breaking as Leo & Donnie seemingly become the new A Team.

It could've been an arc that sees them stretch a bit, before coming together as a family by the end...and thus a stronger family/unit because of that.

It's still dumbfounding to me that the makers haven't even tried to have One Episode where Raph & Mikey have to team up witch each other and work together to 'do something important'. You could create a lot of fun back & forth dialogue and perhaps create some moments where 'Mikey learns something about Mikey that he didn't know before', and vice versa.

I'm also still surprised that they never did go into the whole 'why Raph has that crack' thing.

plastroncafe
07-04-2016, 08:35 AM
I honestly believe the studio thinks that if there's character growth the show would be less marketable. That they think kids won't be able to follow it.

It's less of a problem with the episodic Monster-of-the-Week stuff, but it really makes the show suffer when they attempt long story arcs.

GoldMutant
07-04-2016, 09:04 AM
I'm sorry but, so what? The reason it's seemed so long is the past 10 (or whatever) episodes have removed them from earth, trying to deal with a bigger problem. Now, if by the end of this season that Karai plot hasn't progressed, it may be stretching it out too far, but up until now there's no reason to be getting "sick" because of it. It's a huge plot, has been the focus of multiple episodes and has been addressed in many others. Relax and have some patience.

Also, consider how this will alter the show when it's resolved. If karai ends on splinters side, the turtles just gained their closest ally who, what, now lives with them? Does she go on every mission? Or if she doesn't pick a side, then what? She leaves the show for awhile? What's her excuse?
The only option that either won't change the dynamic of the show or leave fans missing her is if she somehow ends up back on shredders side.

As much as I agree with you on many things, I can't agree on this. Ever since Karai became a mutant in season 2, the whole plot with her was reset after the excellent trilogy with her that season. In season 3, they stretched it out by having Karai go feral (a good idea, but not fully executed) and then bring her back to Shredder under mind control. That's not progress, especially when you consider she was merely in storage after The Pig and the Rhino, making cameos until two episodes I personally take issue with, The Deadly Venom and The Fourfold Trap. Problem is these episodes were near the end of season 3, especially after Northampton had 8 episodes.

Even if the Triceratons dominated the final season 3 episodes after FT, there's "reoccurring plots," and then there's backtracking a previous concept in a different plot. It's stale in my opinion; yes, I'm aware Shredder is a lunatic, but in terms of writing it's gotten old. Do something meaningful with Karai instead of repetitive storytelling, it's practically hot potato if they aren't going to attempt something new, especially because the mind control proved to be a waste. Unless reintroduced in some way, just a forced idea without story behind it other than "let's increase the drama!"

^This^ Absolutely this. This version tries to be its own version, so it can introduce the Turtles to an all-new generation of fans, but leave things open for the generation of fans that have followed TMNT for the past 30 or so years to follow as well. And the producers artists, writers, are trying to give this series the love and respect the property deserves. After most of the staff are people just like us, the fans who have loved this franchise for the past 30 years in all it's incarnations. And they do try to bring in what was fun from every incarnation that has existed.

The way some people react to ideas and decisions done in the show, there is almost a sense of entitlement with some fans. That we feel we are owed an epic story centered around the TMNT just for being connected and involved with this franchise for the past 30 years.

I do agree the way they have the series hurting the narrative they are trying to set.

I do agree the kids network format does limit the series from going as violent and serious as we feel the show should be. But by and large, this franchise is going to be almost exclusively aimed at children.

Like it or hate it, this is just another version, in a number of years after this series is over there will be another version done by someone else and that will also bring it's own batch of complaints.

And if whoever is involved with it tries to please everyone, they will end up pleasing no one.

No, that's incorrect. I can argue all day on the series declining as well as my interest in it, but the general consensus is we know these guys once told a good story. Whether it be episodes like The Gauntlet, Slash & Destroy, and others, we know the writers can understand the material. However, whether it be actors difficult to get on, wasted concepts, and so on and so forth, that's where people are getting frustrated. Although I saw potential in each episode, it's increasing to a point of the episodes becoming a chore. Animation might be crisp and the voices do a solid job everytime, but in terms of script... no. A good percentage of people enjoyed this show and some still do, but for about one-third to one-fifth of people here, it's certainly losing luster.

As for kid's property and complaints, that's also not entirely true. Every franchise in some capacity has shown signs of evolution over the years. Properties such as the DCAU, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avatar, among others have proven one thing. Orson Welles once stated: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of, on where you stop your story." Also consider Nick had Spongebob get away with a lot of nonsense over the years, certain relationships in Korra, and so on here. If a series wants to succeed in such a long standing franchise, taking elements won't sell it all the time. The only it'll succeed is if it evolves; considering the change of writers since season 1, a large amount of potential is squandered. Also considering the one place TMNT has evolved in is the comics primarily (the shows are subjective), TMNT will forever be a kid's property to most people as some don't read, they watch. Until that day comes, it won't entirely evolve with the times; if the show can't take risks, then you lose interest from repetition. That, in my opinion, is where the Nick show is going to fall; even after five seasons, the lack of purely interesting stories hurts it despite it's creativity in mutants and settings.

FlawedCoil82
07-04-2016, 02:20 PM
Its almost as if the good and bad elements of Seasons 1 and 2 flipflopped with Seasons 3 and 4. In the first two seasons, the bad episodes were few and far between with most of the episodes being good to great. However, with Seasons 3 and 4 the good episodes are few and far between with the bad episodes being the majority. I know the North Hampton and Space episodes were brutal to get through, with only one or two episodes from each arc warranting a repeat viewing. Also, Casey has become incredibly annoying ("thats so metaaaaal" UGH!!).

TLP
07-04-2016, 05:02 PM
Wasted potential? Yes. It is those unresolved plots that I can't take anymore. Just Imagine it, The Karai situation could have been resolved long ago and we could have had her on the team by now. At least, that would give us something to look forward to after the break. Same thing with Timothy, it has been ages since Donatello said he was going to fix him and never did. Had he been fixed already, he could have been a solo character right now or part of the mutanimals etc..., so many possibilities.

Oh well, it's an animated show, we can't expect perfection.

You've pretty much nailed it right there. As far as I've seen, it's also happened on a certain episode basis. Obviously, some point out that the tones from Season 1 and its later seasons are different as the turtles are growing up and facing darker situations. Leo's favorite show is cancelled, he had to step up in the finale, he's faced lost love, he was broken in more ways than one by his arch nemesis, and has had to fight and make decisions he never thought about way back when things were lighter and simpler in S1. But the tone's not what's wrong with these later episodes, it's about attention to detail and fitting in those little things that really drove certain S1 episodes.

Look at what "The Gauntlet" was able to cover in 22 minutes. Then, with episodes such as "Mikey Gets Shellacne" and "The Deadly Venom", which not only felt like you were dumped right into the middle of the story instead of the beginning, but also missed opportunities (even obvious ones) to add depth and development. In TDV for example, they had the henchmutants right at the beginning of the episode but they never focused on their thoughts or reactions to Shredder's action against Karai--more specifically Tiger Claw as he and Karai had been bickering like one of those old married couples who were fun to watch. With her back and as the kind of person Shredder always wanted her as, did it mean that he had her back as 2nd in command and whether or not that was the case, what did TC think of all this attention towards her and that he has to work with her again? There are other things but I'll cut it there. Speaking of Karai, while I liked how "The Fourfold Trap" concluded in its final scene similarly to how "The Invasion" concluded, the road to get there was awful! I basically just think they've lost this ability to use their 22 minute window to their full advantage.

We could do with more episodes like "Annihilation Earth" which not only takes some of the earlier seasons' strengths (ex. "Enemy of my Enemy", "The Invasion", etc.) but also builds on them.

The show needs to be dynamic like that though. Why NOT have Karai join the team and stay with them for half a season or so? It's no different than having April fight and use psychic powers now. It's that kind of limited thinking that makes me wish cartoons were more like the comics. Too afraid to think outside the box.

The IDW comics went from 3 Turtles and Splinter trying to find Raph, to all of them reunited, to eventually forming a back up fighting team with Casey, Alopex and Angel, to now leading the Foot to Mikey walking out on them and living with the Mutanimals for a while, to being reunited again. It changes all the time. If Alopex can live with them in the comic for several issues, why the hell can't Karai live with them for half a season?

They're more willing to spend half a season in the woods or in space than to make Karai one of the good guys. It's stupid.

As much as I agree with you on many things, I can't agree on this. Ever since Karai became a mutant in season 2, the whole plot with her was reset after the excellent trilogy with her that season. In season 3, they stretched it out by having Karai go feral (a good idea, but not fully executed) and then bring her back to Shredder under mind control. That's not progress, especially when you consider she was merely in storage after The Pig and the Rhino, making cameos until two episodes I personally take issue with, The Deadly Venom and The Fourfold Trap. Problem is these episodes were near the end of season 3, especially after Northampton had 8 episodes.

Even if the Triceratons dominated the final season 3 episodes after FT, there's "reoccurring plots," and then there's backtracking a previous concept in a different plot. It's stale in my opinion; yes, I'm aware Shredder is a lunatic, but in terms of writing it's gotten old. Do something meaningful with Karai instead of repetitive storytelling, it's practically hot potato if they aren't going to attempt something new, especially because the mind control proved to be a waste. Unless reintroduced in some way, just a forced idea without story behind it other than "let's increase the drama!"



No, that's incorrect. I can argue all day on the series declining as well as my interest in it, but the general consensus is we know these guys once told a good story. Whether it be episodes like The Gauntlet, Slash & Destroy, and others, we know the writers can understand the material. However, whether it be actors difficult to get on, wasted concepts, and so on and so forth, that's where people are getting frustrated. Although I saw potential in each episode, it's increasing to a point of the episodes becoming a chore. Animation might be crisp and the voices do a solid job everytime, but in terms of script... no. A good percentage of people enjoyed this show and some still do, but for about one-third to one-fifth of people here, it's certainly losing luster.

As for kid's property and complaints, that's also not entirely true. Every franchise in some capacity has shown signs of evolution over the years. Properties such as the DCAU, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avatar, among others have proven one thing. Orson Welles once stated: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of, on where you stop your story." Also consider Nick had Spongebob get away with a lot of nonsense over the years, certain relationships in Korra, and so on here. If a series wants to succeed in such a long standing franchise, taking elements won't sell it all the time. The only it'll succeed is if it evolves; considering the change of writers since season 1, a large amount of potential is squandered. Also considering the one place TMNT has evolved in is the comics primarily (the shows are subjective), TMNT will forever be a kid's property to most people as some don't read, they watch. Until that day comes, it won't entirely evolve with the times; if the show can't take risks, then you lose interest from repetition. That, in my opinion, is where the Nick show is going to fall; even after five seasons, the lack of purely interesting stories hurts it despite it's creativity in mutants and settings.



Quoted for friggin' truth.

TMNTInsighter
07-06-2016, 12:08 PM
I honestly believe the studio thinks that if there's character growth the show would be less marketable. That they think kids won't be able to follow it.

That's a pretty unfounded accusation and an underestimation of the audience. The guys behind this show know that there's nothing wrong with character growth and they don't underestimate their audience as well. They also know that we're apart of that audience and, for the most part, so are they (what with the many parts of the franchise they bring into this series as well as the respect--if not ambition--that is apparent). Now, unless they've mistaken growth for traits, I could see that as a more reasonable argument.

It's less of a problem with the episodic Monster-of-the-Week stuff, but it really makes the show suffer when they attempt long story arcs.

Most of that stuff occurred during Northampton and in space. Remember, the franchise is expansive and goes well out of NY. While Northampton was mostly references to the producers' own favorite genres (as was a lot of S3), the space arc in S4A was mostly an inclusion of the franchises own elements. So they're trying to strike a balance with a main storyline and combining MotW episodes from the old series with references throughout the franchise. It's a bit of an ambitious undertaking and it hasn't always worked so here's hoping it gets better.

Speedy Cerviche
07-06-2016, 05:36 PM
As long as the Splinter/ Karai/ Shredder plot gets wrapped up eventually I'm fine with when it happens. I feel that the end of season 4 will have alot of payoff. After reading Mirage and the Archie series any TMNT medium that gets to have closure is fine by me.

CyberCubed
07-08-2016, 07:26 PM
As long as the Splinter/ Karai/ Shredder plot gets wrapped up eventually I'm fine with when it happens. I feel that the end of season 4 will have alot of payoff. After reading Mirage and the Archie series any TMNT medium that gets to have closure is fine by me.

Archie had a sendoff.

Speedy Cerviche
07-08-2016, 09:31 PM
Archie had a sendoff.

Well yeah i guess Year of the Turtle. I was thinking about Forever War.

ToTheNines
07-08-2016, 09:35 PM
I don't accept Year of the Turtle as canon. That's some elseworld ****.

CyberCubed
07-08-2016, 10:26 PM
Year of the Turtle is as canon as canon can get. Unless we finally get The Forever War and it contradicts it in some fashion like Shredder dying or whatever.

MisterMiracle
07-09-2016, 01:04 PM
Honestly my only problem was that the space episodes kind of seemed like a chore to watch.

Yeah, Season 4 was tough to get through for me. I'm hoping we're leaving all of the space stuff behind in Season 5 and beyond.

Skinrash
07-10-2016, 11:29 AM
They've introduced loads of mutants that they could've done more with, but after the debut episode, most of them only get a few cameos and fade into obscurity.

CyberCubed
07-10-2016, 11:38 AM
Most of the space eps are great.

ABrown
07-10-2016, 12:07 PM
Most of the space eps are BARELY ENTERTAINING.

I corrected that statement for you.

TMNTInsighter
07-10-2016, 12:21 PM
Don't do that.

Aaronardo
07-10-2016, 01:22 PM
Even though it's incredibly true?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-10-2016, 02:08 PM
It seems like a storyline like "City at War" can allow the turtles to interact with many of these characters in the same story if they return.

CyberCubed
07-10-2016, 02:45 PM
I corrected that statement for you.

Most of them were great. I think there was only about 3 I didn't like or care for.

Its like you people forget that the majority of TMNT stories are sci-fi based.

victory_angel
07-10-2016, 02:48 PM
It seems like a storyline like "City at War" can allow the turtles to interact with many of these characters in the same story if they return.

Or at the very least the humans vs. Mutants arc. Some of these one-off mutants are celebrity guests so that that does add to the budget to bring them in.

Aaronardo
07-10-2016, 02:53 PM
Its like you people forget that the majority of TMNT stories are sci-fi based.

No we're aware. We just expect good sci-fi when sci-fi is present.

CyberCubed
07-10-2016, 02:59 PM
The sci-fi was very good.

GoldMutant
07-10-2016, 03:02 PM
No we're aware. We just expect good sci-fi when sci-fi is present.

The sci-fi was very good.

Start reading up fellas, I can break it further down on why I have issues with the arc if it doesn't satisfy: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1572238&postcount=113

It makes me wonder though, how many of these threads are we going to have? I could've sworn there were two similar threads, one by Papen and one by Refractive Reflections that were near identical.

CyberCubed
07-10-2016, 03:03 PM
I loved it.

The Happy One
07-10-2016, 04:03 PM
I don't know, it's come to the point where you either love the arcs or hate 'em (though, I suppose it can fluctuate between both depending on the episodes, the writer)

It's hard to argue over something opinion based. Discussions are fine, but they often turn to arguments on whether or not the arcs, or the show itself, is holding up well.

Some will say that literally everything is perfect- or, in the least, not a big enough problem to make threads about. Others, look at it as wasted potential.

I, personally, didn't enjoy the majority of the space episodes while others adored it. So, I don't even know anymore. :ohwell:

CyberCubed
07-10-2016, 04:58 PM
The show is good. People are just disgruntled adults.

ssjup81
07-11-2016, 04:55 AM
I don't know, it's come to the point where you either love the arcs or hate 'em (though, I suppose it can fluctuate between both depending on the episodes, the writer)

It's hard to argue over something opinion based. Discussions are fine, but they often turn to arguments on whether or not the arcs, or the show itself, is holding up well.

Some will say that literally everything is perfect- or, in the least, not a big enough problem to make threads about. Others, look at it as wasted potential.

I, personally, didn't enjoy the majority of the space episodes while others adored it. So, I don't even know anymore. :ohwell:I'm pretty neutral on the space eps, but they did have their moments. The only ep of the space arc that I legitimately didn't like, was the Wyrm ep. Too obnoxious.

Allio
07-11-2016, 02:13 PM
The show is good. People are just disgruntled adults.

sounds like you just have a bar low.

Metalwolf
07-11-2016, 02:27 PM
No we're aware. We just expect good sci-fi when sci-fi is present.Exactly. And realistic reactions by characters, to that sci-fi.

This show reads like a bad fan fiction, focusing on only the good bits the author is more interested and other 'gee whiz' stuff the author thinks is 'cool,' while ignoring things that actually take work and aren't as exciting to write like character development that draws people in and actually makes them care. There is little to this show that now fails to go beyond a bunch of 'look at that' moments to actually mean something while the characters go through it. April's reaction to being a half-Kraang and potentially the doom of her entire planet? Nada. Casey's reaction to seeing his entire planet blown up? Cool, I get to explore space! As such, if they don't care, why should I? That doesn't make for good lasting fiction, at least not one that makes you want to care about what goes on.

CyberCubed
07-11-2016, 03:12 PM
sounds like you just have a bar low.

The majority of Season 4 episodes have been great, fun and entertaining.

Aaronardo
07-11-2016, 03:30 PM
This show reads like a bad fan fiction, focusing on only the good bits the author is more interested and other 'gee whiz' stuff the author thinks is 'cool,' while ignoring things that actually take work and aren't as exciting to write like character development that draws people in and actually makes them care.

Yes! I don't know why I keep forgetting to include that when I talk about this show, but I feel the exact same way. The whole show has just become like a fanfiction written by a huge fan of the OT. Why else would we get one-off characters like Mondo Gecko or Muckman that aren't interesting and amount to nothing in the overall plot? I mean, look at their debut episodes. They're garbage. Their only purposes are "ooh, look at this new character!! He's cool right?? He's from the original show you know!!"

And I'm sick of that. A perfect example of what you're talking about is Tiger Claw. He's an interesting addition to the TMNT lore, and he fits right in. But so much as a singe of development for him so we can care about his character and so that he's memorable in any way? Nope.

I know the show isn't over, but Xever/Fishface sure got some development. And that was barely 20 episodes into the show, if even that much.

CyberCubed
07-11-2016, 03:35 PM
Yes! I don't know why I keep forgetting to include that when I talk about this show, but I feel the exact same way. The whole show has just become like a fanfiction written by a huge fan of the OT. Why else would we get one-off characters like Mondo Gecko or Muckman that aren't interesting and amount to nothing in the overall plot? I mean, look at their debut episodes. They're garbage. Their only purposes are "ooh, look at this new character!! He's cool right?? He's from the original show you know!!"
.

Muckman's episode was great, what was wrong with it? Mondo Gecko's episode was a bit meh for me (didn't care for the whole underground skateboard arena with all of Shredder's henchman watching), but it wasn't bad.

Also they were both in the Season 3 finale and joined the Mutanimals so we'll likely be seeing more of them.

GoldMutant
07-11-2016, 03:49 PM
Muckman's episode was great, what was wrong with it? Mondo Gecko's episode was a bit meh for me (didn't care for the whole underground skateboard arena with all of Shredder's henchman watching), but it wasn't bad.

Also they were both in the Season 3 finale and joined the Mutanimals so we'll likely be seeing more of them.

I'll bite on liking Meet Mondo Gecko, it's honestly a guilty pleasure episode from season 3. However, The Noxious Avenger in my opinion wasn't very impressive. Heck, if Muckman didn't appear at all in Annihilation: Earth! it'd probably be the worst episode from season 3 for me, though it's at the bottom regardless. In my opinion, the problem I had was that it felt too much like a rehash of Muckman Messes Up from the OT. There were differences, primarily Grody and Joe Eyeball this time around, but it's primarily the same episode. It's kind of lazy, heck I even pointed it out on Turtlepedia of the many similarities.

Though it was brought up at Comic Con last year, I don't see Muckman being with the Mutanimals, but Mondo yes I can see. Regardless, both episodes do go towards the weaker aspects of a rather mediocre season. I got no problem with you liking the show Cubed if you gave reasons, otherwise it's kind of difficult to really discuss with you popping up.

Powder
07-11-2016, 05:12 PM
It wasn't lazy, it was an homage.

Aaronardo
07-11-2016, 05:50 PM
Also they were both in the Season 3 finale and joined the Mutanimals so we'll likely be seeing more of them.

Fair point, but then again they got slapped around back-to-back the only time we saw them in combat.

It wasn't lazy, it was an homage.

I mean, don't get me wrong. Sometimes there are homages in the show and they're clever enough. But if Mondo Gecko, who got a 22-minute episode revolving around him, is a homage, then this show isn't very good at subtlety.

Powder
07-11-2016, 08:03 PM
No, I meant Muckman's episode, the plot seemed like somewhat of an homage to his original animated appearance.

GoldMutant
07-11-2016, 08:15 PM
No, I meant Muckman's episode, the plot seemed like somewhat of an homage to his original animated appearance.

Personally for me, it feels more like a remake than an homage. It was certainly more of an homage to The Toxic Crusader given the title and how Muckman goes on, but it just doesn't do much for me. Would've preferred more of a new origin for Muckman given how the Nick series does reimagine several characters but maintains the core elements. We can debate all day but hey what can you do? :P Either way, agree to disagree my friend.

Powder
07-11-2016, 08:25 PM
Sometimes Homages come in the form of partial remakes. :tlol: But yeah it was a blend of Toxie & the OT. I dunno that he's a character that would really benefit from a wildly different origin. There's only so much you can do with trash.

Sumac
07-17-2016, 05:22 AM
Definitely.
First season was really interesting and it felt like it was a good medium between old cartoon and 2k3.
Starting with season 2, story regressed to be more simplistic and characters dynamic was lost on me. Also, occasional foray into disgusting / disturbing stuff didn't help.

Allio
07-17-2016, 05:46 AM
nah, nothhing is wrong with body horror...though, not having a good story to go with it makes it feel like shock horror.

victory_angel
07-18-2016, 03:34 AM
Looking back over the Turtles in Space Arc, the premise of having a time limit to acquire a device to prevent Earth's destruction reminded me of an old classic anime that was featured in the 1970-80's.

The title of this Anime was called Space BattleShip Yamato or Star Blazers as it was called here in the US. There has been a recent live action version of this series as well.

The premise of the first season is that Earth has been attacked by a nazi-like humanoid-alien race called the Gamilons. The radiation from the gamalonian bombs have turned Earth into a poisonous wasteland and all surviving humans have been forced to live underground. But only gives all humanity the span of a year left. Fortunately, the Earth receives a message from the Queen of a planet that is a 148,000 light years away called Iscandar who tells them she has a device to neutralize the radiation that threatens the Earth. A group of people from Earth have to go all the way to Iscandar in order to retrieve the device.

She also gives them plans to wave motion engine to help them aid them in getting to her planet. The people of Earth then find the remains of the Yamato, and make a spaceship out of it sending it into space to save Earth and defeat the Gamilons

In a way the space arc could have been better if it was done in a similar way.
eMcrep48Wz0

Skinrash
07-23-2016, 12:34 PM
Annihilation Earth hinted at what could become an interesting character arch for Tiger Claw; his tolerance for Shredder's madness finally reaches a breaking point and he decides to work for someone else or himself.

victory_angel
07-23-2016, 01:27 PM
Annihilation Earth hinted at what could become an interesting character arch for Tiger Claw; his tolerance for Shredder's madness finally reaches a breaking point and he decides to work for someone else or himself.

That is true and it could prove interesting in how he finally decides to leave the shredder. There is a likelihood that the humans vs. Mutants arc could be a factor in that.

First off we see Tiger Claw in Mikey's Imagination.

Mikey, as we have seen, has a child-like imagination. And many of the characters we see in his mind are characters from shows he liked, people he sees as friends and former enemies who he has a friendly relationship with.

But Tiger Claw at this time fits in none of these categories which indicates that Mikey has seen some possible good in him and that could help influence TC away from the Foot Clan.

However, there are also lots of hints that Donnie could be important in Tiger Claw's reformation as well.

Donnie is the only one of the four turtles that Tiger Claw never encountered in his debut episode.

in the vision quest, Donnie is put against Tiger Claw. And of them, Donnie is the only one who doesn't really kill his enemy. Yes, he sends TC falling off a cliff which would be fatal, but remember TC has a jet pack and cat-like agility so there is still an open possibility that he would have survived this defeat.

And in Mikey's imagination, Donnie comes riding into the fray on Tiger Claw's back.

TMNTInsighter
07-23-2016, 03:45 PM
Annihilation Earth hinted at what could become an interesting character arch for Tiger Claw; his tolerance for Shredder's madness finally reaches a breaking point and he decides to work for someone else or himself.

I've been on this for a while too. There have even been hints of it at the beginning of "The Invasion" and his first scene in "Return to New York" where he was uneasy with Shredder's choices. Not to mention some nice character moments in "Vengeance is Mine" (during when they set up Karai as the bait) and when he rescued April and Casey in "Annihilation: Earth!" (proving he's a good team player if nothing else).

I also thought his appearance in "...Mikey's Mind" was a foreshadow and that was one of the things that made ELS a disappointment and I don't know why they went that route. Now I don't see how they can go the route I thought they would unless they sped up and cheated with how they "developed" Slash. In fact, when you stop and notice how TC (current 2nd in command) and Karai (former 2nd in command) are so similar in their uneasy loyalties towards the Shredder, it's true that TC may end up going Karai's route but they may just do the opposite in order to show the importance of choice in this series--and thus establishing the main difference between the two of them.

Splinter the boss
07-24-2016, 03:44 PM
In what circumstances did TC rescue April and Casey? It's not coming to mind right now?

TMNTInsighter
07-24-2016, 04:40 PM
In what circumstances did TC rescue April and Casey? It's not coming to mind right now?

Just before Splinter's death scene.

Danetello
07-25-2016, 01:40 PM
The worst episodes for me by far were the Northampton ones, especially the Chimera one. Other than that, I tend to really enjoy nearly every episode of this series.

FlawedCoil82
07-27-2016, 11:59 PM
I'm pretty neutral on the space eps, but they did have their moments. The only ep of the space arc that I legitimately didn't like, was the Wyrm ep. Too obnoxious.

And oddly enough, that was one of the few Space arc episodes that did not bore me. In fact, apart from "Trans-Dimensional Turtles", "The Weird World Of Wyrm" was my 2nd favorite episode while they were in Space.

TMNTInsighter
07-28-2016, 05:10 PM
"The Cosmic Ocean" is definitely underrated! It's the best episode of the space arc in my book.