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CyberCubed
07-07-2016, 02:16 AM
More and more you hear news stories about police in the U.S. shooting and killing people for no real reason. For something as simple as running a red light, not turning around and paying attention to the officer, etc.

Its really odd. Police are shooting and killing people and then getting away with it with no criminal charges. What can be done?

Powder
07-07-2016, 02:35 AM
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/165759751-junk-food-or-donut-trap-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=b%2BUM0qSPnSbODgRCuSbyqJvEge0OyS2zmRl3ic9KHLHlvA HbiC40OrQED%2FE5lhnU

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 03:17 AM
More and more you hear news stories about police in the U.S. shooting and killing people for no real reason. For something as simple as running a red light, not turning around and paying attention to the officer, etc.

Its really odd. Police are shooting and killing people and then getting away with it with no criminal charges. What can be done?

Have you seen the video at all??? It is very clear that you have not even remotely seen the video or read a credible news article about the situation.Have you even consider the perspective of the law enforcement officers?????

Before I go any further I want to make clear that I do not support the actions of the officers bc I don't have all the facts and will wait to hear and see all the facts before judging.

Also speaking from a law enforcement perspective (State Police Cadet) hear me out.
The man refused to comply to the police officer causing the situation to be escalated. When words failed the officers tried to use a stun gun. But the Stun Gun either failed or the man was on drugs, bc the Stun Gun had little to no affect.
The officers force him to the ground and while still fighting to subdue the man a gun was either pulled out or fell out of the mans pocket. The cops then clearly said do not reach/touch the gun.
The police officers acted completely appropriate up to this point, after this it gets grey bc it is impossible to see if the man reached for the gun. If he did then the shooting was justified, if he did not reach for the gun then the shooting was not justified.
I spent 20 minutes looking at and reviewing the video, but the cops had only a second to determine if he was reaching for a gun, literally a life or death decision.

Etsyturtle2
07-07-2016, 06:22 AM
Why don't you ask the victims themselves, because they surely aren't doing anything to prevent it.

Candy Kappa
07-07-2016, 08:43 AM
It's an absolute disgrace that racist murderers are allowed a free-pass by carrying a badge. Playing judge, jury and executioner with no repercussions, but that's American Law Enforcement in a nutshell.

And of course another back person was shot by a cop, this time pulled over by a busted light, informing the officer that he had a gun with a carry permit the cop shoots him multiple times.
http://gawker.com/report-minnesota-man-informed-police-officer-he-was-li-1783264934

Commenter 42
07-07-2016, 09:39 AM
The video is clear. It was an execution. Again.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-07-2016, 09:51 AM
The officers force him to the ground and while still fighting to subdue the man a gun was either pulled out or fell out of the mans pocket. The cops then clearly said do not reach/touch the gun.
The police officers acted completely appropriate up to this point, after this it gets grey bc it is impossible to see if the man reached for the gun. If he did then the shooting was justified, if he did not reach for the gun then the shooting was not justified.

Eyewitness accounts don't jive with that. I'll go with witnesses' story before I'll go with the "official police report."

Utrommaniac
07-07-2016, 10:16 AM
Two people pinning a person down and shooting them five times is not justifiable, nor appropriate.

Commenter 42
07-07-2016, 10:22 AM
@tothenines put this up

Tell me you don't feel this. Yesterday.

1wuyXayGMB8

plastroncafe
07-07-2016, 11:19 AM
Can't recommend HIGHLY enough:
This American Life - 548: Cops See It Differently, Part Two (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two)

In particular Act 3:
FBI Director James Comey gave a speech this week calling for law enforcement to redouble its efforts to serve the black community, and calling for a conversation about race in policing. Producer Robyn Semien has noticed that local big city police chiefs do not think race is a factor in the newsmaking incidents where white officers kill unarmed black men. She and Sean Cole visit a police department that's doing a good job fixing the problem of cops killing black men: the Las Vegas PD. (21 minutes)

You can read a transcript here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/transcript

In particular:
Robyn Semien
Psychologist Josh Correll did some of the key research the FBI director was talking about. Josh studies implicit racial biases, basically feelings that we all have about race that we may or may not be aware of. He's tested hundreds of cops. He flashes pictures of white and black men up on a computer screen. Some are holding weapons, and some are holding a wallet or a can of Coke.

And you have to decide instantaneously, shoot or don't shoot. And Josh sees evidence, by how fast you do it and how many mistakes you make, of what your underlying assumptions are about black and white people-- your implicit biases.

Josh Correll
For most of us, we would say things like, oh, you know, I like black people. I like black men. I don't have anything against them. I don't have any negativity toward them. That's an explicit report of an attitude.

But it goes through an editing process. When I flash a picture up on a screen and ask you to respond in 630 milliseconds, you don't have time to edit. It's like everybody has this gut response that is, oh, black means threat.

Robyn Semien
By everybody he means everybody-- black and white, including police. Josh's findings show that police officers are more likely to see the images of black men as threatening, even though police officers usually make the correct decision to shoot or not shoot. In fact, the rest of us-- untrained people like you and me-- do far worse than cops. We're more likely to shoot a black man with a wallet, and we're less likely to shoot a white man with a gun.

But not all cops outperform us. Josh has also given his video game test to police who work on gang units. What he's found is that the nature of policing gangs, which often means rounding up and arresting groups of young black men, does something to those officers and their decisions to shoot.

Josh Correll
When we test them, they are worse than other police. So we see bias in their response times, and we see bias in the mistakes that they make. So unlike regular cops, those special unit cops seem to be more likely to shoot an unarmed black target than an unarmed white target.

Robyn Semien
Josh says that gang units, unlike regular police, are like us. They do badly on these tests, even with all their training.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 12:18 PM
It's an absolute disgrace that racist murderers are allowed a free-pass by carrying a badge. Playing judge, jury and executioner with no repercussions, but that's American Law Enforcement in a nutshell.

And of course another back person was shot by a cop, this time pulled over by a busted light, informing the officer that he had a gun with a carry permit the cop shoots him multiple times.
http://gawker.com/report-minnesota-man-informed-police-officer-he-was-li-1783264934
Now this!!!!! Is a bad shooting!!!!! The cop should be arrested!!!!!!! What went wrong here in the video is the fact that the Officer escalated the situation himself for no reason. There was literally no reason for firing that gun.


Eyewitness accounts don't jive with that. I'll go with witnesses' story before I'll go with the "official police report."
Eye witness testimony is the most unreliable evidence there is, thats why it is not used or relied upon nearly as much in court. All of my comments are based on what I saw in the video. If a eyewitness says something else they are either mistaken or lying. Please watch the video yourself.

Two people pinning a person down and shooting them five times is not justifiable, nor appropriate.
Look at the size different between Mr. Sterling and the officers he was not fully subdued and also HE HAD A GUN!!!!!!!! HE HAD A GUN AND IT WAS IN REACH!!!!!! Mr.Sterling was on his back, his right arm was clearly FREE still. He had gotten a hold of that gun he could have easily killed one of the officers...
As others have said before the Sterling shooting could have easily been avoided if he Did not Fight the Police and simply cooperated.

People don't understand the split second decisions officers have to make that could either let them live or die!!!.

And anyone who says this is a RACE or BLACK ISSUE please read the FBI statistics before making that comment again. There are almost twice as many WHITE people killed by police than there are BLACK people.
Many people are claiming that this is a race issue, BUT ITS NOT!!!!! Its an issue with multiple fronts, The Minnesota shooting was clearly a officer who was not properly trained. I must also be clear there has been a issue with race with law enforcement in the past and there still is, but I do not believe race played role in the Sterling shooting.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 12:26 PM
Can't recommend HIGHLY enough:
This American Life - 548: Cops See It Differently, Part Two (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two)

In particular Act 3:


You can read a transcript here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/transcript

In particular:

This is a interesting article and proves we still have problems with prejudices.

plastroncafe
07-07-2016, 12:43 PM
People do understand that the police put their lives on the line by stepping into a potentially dangerous situation, much the same way firefighters do.

I do, however, find it interesting that you support the article I posted, even though it contradicts something you yourself wrote earlier.

That the second cop was not properly trained.
My article says that current training isn't enough to overcome prejudice on the part of the police officers.

SO that guy? Was properly trained, and he still killed someone.

I'm looking for the FBI statistics you mentioned, if you've got a link I'd appreciate that.
I did find this though:
The Counted
People killed by police in the US - The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database)

IndigoErth
07-07-2016, 01:22 PM
This country needs to stop being so gun obsessed. Period. I'm not saying "Wahh take away all the guns/wahh they want to take our guns," but christ people.

I mean, yeah, even if you are certified to carry, people shouldn't be stupid about it and be well aware that simply having it could be an issue in some situations. YOU may know that you are completely harmless in most cases, but a stranger, including a cop, does not know that. Sure, they shouldn't assume you may be trouble because of it, but unfortunately we no longer live in times where everyone is using muskets and old time rifles that can't be fired off so quickly and leave a little space for rational thought. We've become a shoot first ask questions later kind of culture... 'get them before they get us.' Because understandably no one wants to be the victim, but it's too easy to act too rash

I don't condone the overly rash actions by the police that have been involved in these terrible incidences, and certainly not in cases where there is actual prejudice involved, but the cops still have every right to fear for their own lives just as much as any civilian. If you interact with a cop and you're armed, then yeah, that's probably going to increase the amount of which that cop is on edge as well, they're still only human after all... and if the damn cop draws a gun, now the civilian is on edge as well... two armed people, capable of putting each other on edge and worry for their own safety, can't ever be a good situation.

If so many feel they must be armed for protection... why aren't we using rubber bullets more? Supposedly those may not be entirely kill-free(?), but they'd at least hopefully kill less often while getting the same desired result of fending off an assailant in most cases.

Why aren't cops using more rubber bullets? In areas that are riskier, why aren't they specifically working in pairs, only one with a live gun while the other is armed with a gun that ONLY fires blanks (separate so there is no mix up) and simply used to startle and subdue some people that are a struggle to arrest.

What kind of training are our police getting? Is there no mock training that tests a person's reaction time and fast judgement making in life or death situations?


I dunno... it's so terrible and generalizing on either side is never gong to help matters. It's never going to change until people all around are willing to change. We can't keep just making assumptions and judgements just based on race or social class and generalizing people from a certain background as all bad. But on that exact same note, we can't generalize all police as bad, racist, and keep allowing a culture that pushes the idea that the police are your enemy... that is wrongly then raising young people to hate and fear police, react combative if they have a run-in with them because they fear the police and then what... that puts the cops on edge themselves and creates a bad situation. Fault is in all hands.

:(

Candy Kappa
07-07-2016, 01:53 PM
If you are certified to carry a gun, you are certified to carry a gun. Minnesota have Concealed Carry Permits, and he rightfully informed the officer that he had so before reaching for his ID which the cop requested for.

And even if his carry permit was expired or a lie, it's not been mentioned that he brandished said gun, only informed the officer that he had one. But as we've seen time and time again, 2nd amendment is for white people only.

like this instance where a elderly black man is assaulted (by civilians) for carrying a gun in a state that have concealed carry permit.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/1/22/1359564/-62-year-old-black-grandfather-choked-and-held-down-by-3-white-men-who-see-his-legal-firearm

When you live in a country that loves guns more then the lives and safety of children, you have to be aware of local state laws about guns, especially the carry permits.

snake
07-07-2016, 02:01 PM
There's good cops and bad cops. Stop dressing and acting like a hoodlum if you don't want to get shot. This stuff only happens in ghetto areas and most of the time the victims provoke the officers.

The Deadman
07-07-2016, 02:43 PM
Eyewitness accounts don't jive with that. I'll go with witnesses' story before I'll go with the "official police report."

Because eyewitnesses tell the truth 100% of the time. There have been plenty of cases where they record the "evidence" but it's only what THEY want you to see, such as the aftermath of an altercation with police and not what lead up to it.

There's good cops and bad cops. Stop dressing and acting like a hoodlum if you don't want to get shot. This stuff only happens in ghetto areas and most of the time the victims provoke the officers.

Away with your logic i say! :lol:

Candy Kappa
07-07-2016, 02:45 PM
So, what's the dress code for hoodlums?

plastroncafe
07-07-2016, 02:47 PM
Short skirts and too much makeup.
Oh no wait, that's rape.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 03:16 PM
People do understand that the police put their lives on the line by stepping into a potentially dangerous situation, much the same way firefighters do.

I do, however, find it interesting that you support the article I posted, even though it contradicts something you yourself wrote earlier.

That the second cop was not properly trained.
My article says that current training isn't enough to overcome prejudice on the part of the police officers.

SO that guy? Was properly trained, and he still killed someone.

I'm looking for the FBI statistics you mentioned, if you've got a link I'd appreciate that.
I did find this though:
The Counted
People killed by police in the US - The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database)

Can you please be quote or be more specific Plastroncafe ??? I do not see the contradiction, I very well may have.

In my earlier statements I was trying to state its not a race issue, but a issue of prejudice and its not just with black people, but with minority and domestic violence ect.....

As I said before the cop in involved in the Minnesota shooting WAS NOT PROPERLY TRAINED it is very evident.
Here is a good article from the post that breaks down the FBI Supplementary report. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-the-data-says.html?_r=0

Also PlastronCafe you can say people understand, but they don't and trust me its not like fire fighters. Fire Fighters don't have to guess if a fire is friendly or not. A Fire Fighter does not respond multiple fires a night. Fire Fighters know there enemy and don't have to make judgement calls like police officers do.

You say "people understand that police put their lives on the line" But frankly most people don't. Most people have never had to fight for their lives, most people don't know what its like to fight for a gun with a man who is bigger and stronger than you, but unless you have felt that adrenaline rush....that fight or flight instinct, you have never had stare death in the face.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 03:18 PM
There's good cops and bad cops. Stop dressing and acting like a hoodlum if you don't want to get shot. This stuff only happens in ghetto areas and most of the time the victims provoke the officers.

I agree there are good and bad cops, but this stuff does not simply happen in the ghetto, it happens everywhere. :cry:

Commenter 42
07-07-2016, 03:28 PM
I agree there are good and bad cops, but this stuff does not simply happen in the ghetto, it happens everywhere. :cry:

Oh yeah? This happens to white folks? Show me the reports.

Candy Kappa
07-07-2016, 03:36 PM
I bet Henry Louis Gates Jr was dressed like a hoodlum when he was arrested for entering his own house.

Guess the guy was lucky he wasn't riddled with bullets for having a house.

snake
07-07-2016, 03:36 PM
Oh yeah? This happens to white folks? Show me the reports.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

You just don't hear about the white people that get shot. Not saying it happens that often outside of the hood tho.

plastroncafe
07-07-2016, 04:45 PM
As I said before the cop in involved in the Minnesota shooting WAS NOT PROPERLY TRAINED it is very evident.
Here is a good article from the post that breaks down the FBI Supplementary report. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-the-data-says.html?_r=0


The study discussed in the podcast that I linked to, and that you approved of, showed findings that level of training gave most police a higher reliability of threat assessment rating, the exception being those people who work closely in and around the gang units.

Those people are still just as trained as their brothers and sisters in blue, but are apparently more susceptible to reacting on their own inherent biases when placed in a position to make a snap judgement.

Or to paraphrase: They're more likely to shoot first.
Just like this guy.

So the matter might not be an issue of him being poorly trained, but with the training itself.

Also PlastronCafe you can say people understand, but they don't and trust me its not like fire fighters. Fire Fighters don't have to guess if a fire is friendly or not. A Fire Fighter does not respond multiple fires a night. Fire Fighters know there enemy and don't have to make judgement calls like police officers do.

Do you know any firefighters, because it sounds to me like you don't.

You say "people understand that police put their lives on the line" But frankly most people don't. Most people have never had to fight for their lives, most people don't know what its like to fight for a gun with a man who is bigger and stronger than you, but unless you have felt that adrenaline rush....that fight or flight instinct, you have never had stare death in the face.

Now imagine you had to go through all of that, and you aren't getting paid for it. Imagine it's not something you volunteered for.

I have a link regarding "Who Gets Killed More By Police:"
When Force is Hardest to Justify, Victims of Police Violence Are Most Likely to be Black (https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-week-63-of-white-people-are-wrong-about-ferguson/)

CyberCubed
07-07-2016, 05:21 PM
You know I'm surprised someone doesn't take this anti-cop sentiment too far. One day one crazy guy is going to go shoot up a police station as "retaliation" and then the crap will really hit the fan.

I can't imagine the backlash that would happen if cops get shot by a bunch of random guys, and then see how the cops respond to that in all future cases.

thundermaster612
07-07-2016, 05:30 PM
They all wanna be like Captain America, so they kill every random plot-armorless being that touches their weapons

Cryomancer
07-07-2016, 06:19 PM
My main question with this stuff is what happened to less lethal options? Where did all the tazers and rubber bullets go? Pepper spray?

The Deadman
07-07-2016, 06:38 PM
My main question with this stuff is what happened to less lethal options? Where did all the tazers and rubber bullets go? Pepper spray?

They still do use pepper spray and tazers, but even then people have been known to complain about those methods as well.

CyberCubed
07-07-2016, 07:21 PM
Police should all have long ranged taser guns or something. There's no reason for cops to have lethal ammo.

If you're on a swat team and you're purposely infiltrating some criminal base with hostages that's a different story.

Papenbrook
07-07-2016, 08:44 PM
Stop dressing and acting like a hoodlum if you don't want to get shot. This stuff only happens in ghetto areas and most of the time the victims provoke the officers.

Away with your logic i say! :lol:

That is a very bigoted justification for this very serious issue.

In fact, police brutality of any kind is unjustified. These officers should be arrested immediately.

TheSkeletonMan939
07-07-2016, 08:47 PM
In fact, police brutality of any kind is unjustified.

"Of any kind"? What about when it's necessary, in a legitimate emergency?

Papenbrook
07-07-2016, 09:20 PM
"Of any kind"? What about when it's necessary, in a legitimate emergency?

When is police brutality ever "necessary"? Do you even know what "police brutality" means?

Police brutality is the use of excessive and/or unnecessary force by police when dealing with civilians.

http://www.Google.com/url?q=http://thelawdictionary.org/article/what-is-police-brutality/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjrsMTd4-LNAhUG0iYKHfm5CacQFggTMAI&usg=AFQjCNHM5rhkJyI3JO7LHWAq6U1MZpGfEw

Even if police officers would have to use excessive force in case there is a "legitimate emergency", it would still be unjustified.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 09:30 PM
The study discussed in the podcast that I linked to, and that you approved of, showed findings that level of training gave most police a higher reliability of threat assessment rating, the exception being those people who work closely in and around the gang units.

Those people are still just as trained as their brothers and sisters in blue, but are apparently more susceptible to reacting on their own inherent biases when placed in a position to make a snap judgement.

Or to paraphrase: They're more likely to shoot first.
Just like this guy.

So the matter might not be an issue of him being poorly trained, but with the training itself.



Do you know any firefighters, because it sounds to me like you don't.



Now imagine you had to go through all of that, and you aren't getting paid for it. Imagine it's not something you volunteered for.

I have a link regarding "Who Gets Killed More By Police:"
When Force is Hardest to Justify, Victims of Police Violence Are Most Likely to be Black (https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-week-63-of-white-people-are-wrong-about-ferguson/)


Plastron this is actually what happened to me. I was a victim at one point and was literally put in a life or death situation literally Bleeding out.
This is the very reason why I chose this career.
As far as fire fighter go I actually do know one or two. I have nothing but respect for them and they actually saved my life. But the fact is is that they don't have to determine whether or not that "Fire" is going to pull a gun on them. They don't have to determine if the "Fire" is good or bad, its just bad.

The podcast you mention with the gang unit is very interesting, but I don't know if it would be the training or the fact a person just develops a bias due to dealing with gangs or it could be the training.

My point with the Minnesota Officers is that he escalated the situation instead of deescalating the situation and thats why I think that their should be a national reform when it comes to police training and I think there should be mandatory reporting on all police involved shooting instead of voluntary reporting.

Also just a reminder everyone lets try to keep this as civil as possible, feel free to share opinions, but be careful what you post. People may read your post differently then what you intended to write.

Commenter 42
07-07-2016, 09:32 PM
I read that he was tasered before he was shot. And tasers can be leathal.

This has been a rough day. I broke down listening to her call out in the video.
We need to change. This isn't the America we were supposed to grow into.

Then big things happen, that cut us all, makes us sick, and we shrug our shoulders, because the news cycle is maybe 24hours...

And yeah, of the 3500 "friends" on FB, it's hit my feed once.

We forget too easily. Just a sad couple of days...

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 09:48 PM
I read that he was tasered before he was shot. And tasers can be leathal.

This has been a rough day. I broke down listening to her call out in the video.
We need to change. This isn't the America we were supposed to grow into.

Then big things happen, that cut us all, makes us sick, and we shrug our shoulders, because the news cycle is maybe 24hours...

And yeah, of the 3500 "friends" on FB, it's hit my feed once.

We forget too easily. Just a sad couple of days...

Tasers are actually considered non-leathal. Tasers have saved many lives, bc instead of an officer having to use a gun or pepper spray they can use a stun gun. Pepper spray actually kills more people due to food allergies. Tasers can kill people that have heart conditions, thats the only major down side.
This is what sucks about the Sterling incident, bc the Stun-Gun failed for some reason. The stun-gun should have subdued the subject.....

I agree with you that something needs to be done, but nothing probably will get done......... :(

Papenbrook
07-07-2016, 09:52 PM
We need to change. This isn't the America we were supposed to grow into.

The United States was, still is, and always will be, a bigoted country.

We were never supposed to grow into it.

snake
07-07-2016, 09:59 PM
That is a very bigoted justification for this very serious issue.

In fact, police brutality of any kind is unjustified. These officers should be arrested immediately.

It's the truth you don't want to hear. Sorry, not everyone is a DIDDIN DO NUFFIN.

Spike Spiegel
07-07-2016, 10:09 PM
Can we talk about the cops and civilians shot at the Dallas protests here or should that be a new topic?

http://www.fox4news.com/news/171359952-story

Papenbrook
07-07-2016, 10:10 PM
It's the truth you don't want to hear. Sorry, not everyone is a DIDDIN DO NUFFIN.

So, on top of mocking African American Vernacular English, you admit to an intolerant human being?

Well done, Snake. Well done.

By the way, the two victims (Alton Sterling and Philando Castile) weren't "acting and dressing like hoodlums". The former was selling CDs in front of a supermarket, while the latter was reaching for his driver's license while he was in his own car.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-07-2016, 10:18 PM
This has been a rough day. I broke down listening to her call out in the video.

We need to change. This isn't the America we were supposed to grow into.

I don't always agree with you, C42, but that is the wisest and most heartbreaking thing you've ever said.

I weep with that woman and with you. If only more people wept with us instead of making excuses for the system and the racists who hide behind authority.

Commenter 42
07-07-2016, 10:22 PM
Tasers are actually considered non-leathal. Tasers have saved many lives, bc instead of an officer having to use a gun or pepper spray they can use a stun gun. Pepper spray actually kills more people due to food allergies. Tasers can kill people that have heart conditions, thats the only major down side.
This is what sucks about the Sterling incident, bc the Stun-Gun failed for some reason. The stun-gun should have subdued the subject.....

I agree with you that something needs to be done, but nothing probably will get done......... :(

The subject had a name, and secondly, while I get that you're looking in from the other side, maybe tho, drop the defense a little, and take off the blinders. We all saw the video, and it simply wasn't right.

It. was. wrong.

I agree with Snake, in that yeah, some stereotypes have been well earned, whole lot of thugs have made profiling easier - but 600 killed, and 5 since the start of July, just from cops?

If anything, do us all a favor, and think hard on this situ. Let it resonate.
You folks are there to keep the peace, not destroy lives. Y'all are supposed to be the good guys.

Just saying.

I don't always agree with you, C42, but that is the wisest and most heartbreaking thing you've ever said.
I weep with that woman and with you. If only more people wept with us instead of making excuses for the system and the racists who hide behind authority.

Thnx.

I even felt for the Minnesota cop... stupid as he is, he's as much a victim now, it's obvious. He's done. He's going to be broken for a long time.

Those two with Alton were looking for a reason. The execution was cold, like they were running a drill.
Someone said it wasn't even a gun...but an old phone.

They should be in jail.

IndigoErth
07-07-2016, 10:56 PM
Ultimately... we're just a really terrible species and an invasive plague. :( But I guess you don't get to the top as the dominate species by being nice. If we were a nice species, we'd have gone extinct or never made it past the trees.

Personally... maybe we should at the very least get rid of the concealed carry thing. Too problematic and at the very least, if it was left out in the open, the only action sort of possible is to show an obvious move to keep the hands way from it.

What I don't get is that knife laws in my state are such that it is illegal to carry anything other than a folding pocket knife (up to 3" max) concealed. Heck, having it in your car counts as concealed. Nor have I've ever heard of any special knife permits. Why on Earth then is it okay for firearms...

It's unlikely I could kill or harm anyone too bad with a 4" knife from 10 feet away (maybe only if it was a throwing knife and I was good at it), but if I had a 4" knife concealed... well omg? Hell, they could be 20 feet away by the time I pulled it out. Our laws are so messed up.



You know I'm surprised someone doesn't take this anti-cop sentiment too far. One day one crazy guy is going to go shoot up a police station as "retaliation" and then the crap will really hit the fan.

I can't imagine the backlash that would happen if cops get shot by a bunch of random guys, and then see how the cops respond to that in all future cases.
That's already been happening.

Remember this case a while ago?


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/assassinated-shock-after-two-nypd-officers-gunned-down-their-car-n272436

Investigators believe the gunman who ambushed and fatally shot two New York City Police Department officers Saturday boasted on social media that "I'm putting wings on pigs today" before the killings. The Instagram post also references Michael Brown and Eric Garner, two unarmed black men who died in confrontations with police.

Police said Ismaaiyl Brinsley, 28, walked up to a police car in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn at 2:47 p.m. and shot officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos through the passenger side window, fatally striking both in the head. Brinsley then ran to a nearby subway station where he turned the gun on himself, police said.

And the cops were both minorities like the gunman...



Edit: And I guess now on CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/philando-castile-alton-sterling-reaction/index.html

Multiple police officers have been killed during a protest in Dallas over shootings by police of black men in Louisiana and Minnesota.
Three Dallas police officers were killed and eight others were wounded, Dallas Police Chief David Brown and the City of Dallas said in separate statements.

One Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer was fatally shot, the agency tweeted.

It's not clear if Brown included the DART officers in his tally.

Brown said two snipers shot the 10 from elevated positions during a protest. Two officers are in surgery and three are in critical condition. No suspects were in custody.

Screw it, this country just needs to be terminated and start over. Be it cops doing it or civilians... I hate our species.

Gonna go find a portal to parallel world where TMNT are real and go live with them. At least that world has them to at least try to keep the stupid humans under control.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 11:09 PM
Can we talk about the cops and civilians shot at the Dallas protests here or should that be a new topic?

http://www.fox4news.com/news/171359952-story

This thread is cluttered and will probably get closed. Go ahead and make a new topic. God have mercy on us all.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 11:11 PM
Gonna go find a portal to parallel world where TMNT are real and go live with them. At least that world has them to at least try to keep the stupid humans under control.

I might join you :P

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 11:21 PM
The subject had a name, and secondly, while I get that you're looking in from the other side, maybe tho, drop the defense a little, and take off the blinders. We all saw the video, and it simply wasn't right.

It. was. wrong.

I agree with Snake, in that yeah, some stereotypes have been well earned, whole lot of thugs have made profiling easier - but 600 killed, and 5 since the start of July, just from cops?

If anything, do us all a favor, and think hard on this situ. Let it resonate.
You folks are there to keep the peace, not destroy lives. Y'all are supposed to be the good guys.

Just saying.
This is why I made that statement. I am not cop even though you assumed I was. I am/was a cadet/trainee. (I broke my foot) :(
Also I used the word "subject" bc I was talking about use of the taser on everyone in general and simply used 3 person.

Reading your post it sound like YOU DONT THINK COPS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES???????? bc in the shooting of Mr. Sterling HE HAD A GUN!!!! THE GUN WAS OUT ON THE GROUND AND WITHIN REACH!!!! MR.STERLING WAS STILL FIGHTING WITH THE OFFICERS!!!! THE ONLY REASON I CANNOT JUSTIFY OR CONDEM THE SHOOTING AND ACTIONS OF THE OFFICERS IS BC I CANNOT TELL WHETHER OR NOT MR.STERLING TRIED TO GRAB FOR THE GUN.

Man in Minnesota was ridiculous and the officer needs to face some sort of chargers weather that be 3RD Degree Murder or Voluntary/Involuntary Manslaughter.

Edit Philando Castile was the name of the man shot in Minnesota RIP

Utrommaniac
07-07-2016, 11:21 PM
Of course this mess in Dallas is happening when I'm attending a wedding there on Saturday. I was kind of worried sh*t would be going down, and look at that! Sh*t going down. Not completely in the way I was concerned about, though.

Redeemer
07-07-2016, 11:36 PM
Of course this mess in Dallas is happening when I'm attending a wedding there on Saturday. I was kind of worried sh*t would be going down, and look at that! Sh*t going down. Not completely in the way I was concerned about, though.

Wow that stinks. Hopefully nothing like this will happen while you are actually there.

Sorry for all the post people this is my last I promise. I just wanted to share something I put on my Facebook.

"Tonight I was actually going to post the video of the two recent Police Shooting in Minnasota and Louisiana and share my thoughts and opinions of the two and why I believe the two incidents are completely different. But there is only one thing I can say and recommend...is.......Pray. Pray for the souls of the two men who died and pray for the officers who shot the those men and for all the families impacted. Pray for God to deliver justice and pray for Dallas tonight and America in general.‪#‎PRAY‬"

Utrommaniac
07-07-2016, 11:51 PM
The part I was worried about was someone getting mad that an interracial same-sex marriage was taking place, but clearly, the attention is going elsewhere.

Also, there's one more (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-chp-shooting-vehicles-20160705-snap-story.html)

plastroncafe
07-08-2016, 09:12 AM
Travel safe when you do, Utrom.

Katie
07-08-2016, 09:27 AM
The part I was worried about was someone getting mad that an interracial same-sex marriage was taking place, but clearly, the attention is going elsewhere.

Also, there's one more (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-chp-shooting-vehicles-20160705-snap-story.html)

Also, y'know, not every single person in Southern states is waiting with torches to "get" minorities, no matter the variety.

And any who do think like that will likely keep their thoughts to themselves. I'm multiracial. In an interracial relationship and have been to same-sex weddings. In Alabama. Not saying people don't dislike it, but 99.9999 % won't act on it.

Just saying

Shark_Blade
07-08-2016, 09:33 AM
I have LOADS of examples of corrupt police (aka murderers) killing innocent citizens.

Here's one for now I extracted.

http://i.imgur.com/s3fn9LZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/1jGSZJ1.png

http://i.imgur.com/cFzG5Vd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r65nZj2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JFsjJ4c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u4uw2Jn.png

http://i.imgur.com/a4k0OK4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/X7cRzjn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9FA8lWQ.jpg

Black Teen Fatally Shot By Austin Police Was Naked And Unarmed

A black teenager who was naked and acting erratically in an Austin, Texas, neighborhood Monday was unarmed when he was fatally shot by police, the Austin Police Department says.

Police say that on Monday morning they received multiple calls from residents of the neighborhood in the northeast of the city reporting the teen, now identified as 17-year-old David Joseph, was “acting erratically” and “chasing” another male in a nearby apartment complex.

The 911 dispatcher told The officer the teen had no weapons that were reported and that he was unarmed before the officer arrived at the scene at about 10 a.m. Freeman told police that Joseph did not listen to his commands before shooting.

“Mr. Joseph ultimately charged at the officer and that’s when shots were fired,” Manley said, noting Freeman fired just seconds after the confrontation began.

Police are reporting that although the dashboard camera recorded audio, it didn’t record video of the incident because most of the incident just happened to occur “outside of the frame.” The audio recording has not yet been made public.

Manley wouldn’t say if a stun gun was deployed by the officer during the incident, but seeing as the teen was obviously unarmed, There were other non-lethal forms of restraint that could have been used.

The teen died Monday at Round Rock Medical Center.
#StayWoke

- ****ING HELL

- It’s as if the Police have a ever-building hatred against male Black bodies..
Support Daily Public Displays of Disdain to Police Officials because this needs to end. Support of the Police needs to end. The Police are bad. Not all officers do this, but all officers support the Police and are therefore bad. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp — still don’t get it?: Reread this entire post

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-08-2016, 09:49 AM
I have LOADS of examples of corrupt police (aka murderers) killing innocent citizens.

Here's one for now I extracted.

http://i.imgur.com/s3fn9LZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/1jGSZJ1.png

http://i.imgur.com/cFzG5Vd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r65nZj2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JFsjJ4c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u4uw2Jn.png

http://i.imgur.com/a4k0OK4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/X7cRzjn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9FA8lWQ.jpg

Black Teen Fatally Shot By Austin Police Was Naked And Unarmed

A black teenager who was naked and acting erratically in an Austin, Texas, neighborhood Monday was unarmed when he was fatally shot by police, the Austin Police Department says.

Police say that on Monday morning they received multiple calls from residents of the neighborhood in the northeast of the city reporting the teen, now identified as 17-year-old David Joseph, was “acting erratically” and “chasing” another male in a nearby apartment complex.

The 911 dispatcher told The officer the teen had no weapons that were reported and that he was unarmed before the officer arrived at the scene at about 10 a.m. Freeman told police that Joseph did not listen to his commands before shooting.

“Mr. Joseph ultimately charged at the officer and that’s when shots were fired,” Manley said, noting Freeman fired just seconds after the confrontation began.

Police are reporting that although the dashboard camera recorded audio, it didn’t record video of the incident because most of the incident just happened to occur “outside of the frame.” The audio recording has not yet been made public.

Manley wouldn’t say if a stun gun was deployed by the officer during the incident, but seeing as the teen was obviously unarmed, There were other non-lethal forms of restraint that could have been used.

The teen died Monday at Round Rock Medical Center.
#StayWoke

- ****ING HELL

- It’s as if the Police have a ever-building hatred against male Black bodies..
Support Daily Public Displays of Disdain to Police Officials because this needs to end. Support of the Police needs to end. The Police are bad. Not all officers do this, but all officers support the Police and are therefore bad. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp — still don’t get it?: Reread this entire post

As someone who lives in this community and has had time to hear both sides of the case, news has been coming out and facts discovered that lead many to believe that this young man was on some serious bath-salts-esque drugs and had severe mental issues.

I believe this particular police officer when he says he feared for his life. The young man's death is regrettable, but I don't feel a grave injustice was done here. Perhaps there was another way to resolve this situation, one that didn't have to result with a death, but I'm not outraged by this; simply grieved.

Netkeeper
07-08-2016, 09:55 AM
Also, y'know, not every single person in Southern states is waiting with torches to "get" minorities, no matter the variety.

And any who do think like that will likely keep their thoughts to themselves. I'm multiracial. In an interracial relationship and have been to same-sex weddings. In Alabama. Not saying people don't dislike it, but 99.9999 % won't act on it.

Just saying
Yes, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious. I can't blame anyone for being cautious right now, regardless of any of those factors.

snake
07-08-2016, 12:04 PM
As someone who lives in this community and has had time to hear both sides of the case, news has been coming out and facts discovered that lead many to believe that this young man was on some serious bath-salts-esque drugs and had severe mental issues.

I believe this particular police officer when he says he feared for his life. The young man's death is regrettable, but I don't feel a grave injustice was done here. Perhaps there was another way to resolve this situation, one that didn't have to result with a death, but I'm not outraged by this; simply grieved.

This. My city has had a bath salt incident and y'know how the officers handled it? He ended up jumping through a window, killing himself. They were too cautious.

And what makes David Joeseph special? If he was on drugs let alone bath salts, why is he considered such a hero now?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-08-2016, 12:06 PM
This. My city has had a bath salt incident and y'know how the officers handled it? He ended up jumping through a window, killing himself. They were too cautious.

If a cop thinks a kid is about to try and eat his face, I am very sympathetic towards him shooting the perceived threat.

This is a situation much different than the horrible fate of Philando Castile.

snake
07-08-2016, 12:10 PM
Yes, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious. I can't blame anyone for being cautious right now, regardless of any of those factors.

Cautious of what? You're putting a victim shroud on for what reason. No one is out to get you.

Netkeeper
07-08-2016, 12:18 PM
Cautious of what? You're putting a victim shroud on for what reason. No one is out to get you.
But that doesn't mean disaster can't occur even if you're not doing anything wrong. Like what happened with the civilians that were harmed by the sniper in Dallas. They were completely innocent.

IndigoErth
07-08-2016, 01:43 PM
http://www.fox29.com/news/local-news/171603441-story

Well that's awkward. Guy (white) is appropriately shot after actually pulling a gun on police and pointing it at them, but "is expected to survive."

Soooo... was it luck or do these cops need to train others how to aim for non-vital areas and not shoot to kill? Hm.

snake
07-08-2016, 02:47 PM
But that doesn't mean disaster can't occur even if you're not doing anything wrong. Like what happened with the civilians that were harmed by the sniper in Dallas. They were completely innocent.

As long as BLM protests don't come to your area you should be fine. You're in the south right? I'm just saying chances are very low anything will happen to you in specific.

Netkeeper
07-08-2016, 04:45 PM
As long as BLM protests don't come to your area you should be fine. You're in the south right? I'm just saying chances are very low anything will happen to you in specific.
Oh yeah, chances are low anything will happen to most people in specific. But it isn't specifically about BLM and I don't agree with your words about it.

Commenter 42
07-08-2016, 05:20 PM
http://www.fox29.com/news/local-news/171603441-story

Well that's awkward. Guy (white) is appropriately shot after actually pulling a gun on police and pointing it at them, but "is expected to survive."

Soooo... was it luck or do these cops need to train others how to aim for non-vital areas and not shoot to kill? Hm.

That's the point, isn't it. Alton sold CD's on a street corner. A homeless dude harassed him. and he made a very idle threat. homeless dude "reports him". Now he's, dead?

The best part is, the homeless kid had a cellphone. Right... cause when I was broke growing up, I had a ****ing cellphone.

A conversation would have sufficed. A non confrontational, conversation.

ssjup81
07-08-2016, 05:40 PM
You know, that story about the unarmed naked kid is ridiculous. How can the police not deal with a naked kid. How in the world can a naked guy be armed? Where would he conceal the weapon? I feel bad for people in this situation, but I also feel bad for the cops...the GOOD cops that are being overshadowed by the bad ones. Geez...

Here, I was told that police officers have to be trained in a martial art (judo, Kendo, karate, for example) to deal with unarmed suspects. I thought US cops had training for that too.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-08-2016, 06:02 PM
You know, that story about the unarmed naked kid is ridiculous. How can the police not deal with a naked kid. How in the world can a naked guy be armed? Where would he conceal the weapon? I feel bad for people in this situation, but I also feel bad for the cops...the GOOD cops that are being overshadowed by the bad ones. Geez...

Here, I was told that police officers have to be trained in a martial art (judo, Kendo, karate, for example) to deal with unarmed suspects. I thought US cops had training for that too.

Bath salts. As we've discussed.

ToTheNines
07-08-2016, 06:08 PM
http://www.fox29.com/news/local-news/171603441-story

Well that's awkward. Guy (white) is appropriately shot after actually pulling a gun on police and pointing it at them, but "is expected to survive."

Soooo... was it luck or do these cops need to train others how to aim for non-vital areas and not shoot to kill? Hm.

He's gonna live because he's ****ing lucky. Guns are for lethal force, period. This isn't Hollywood, cops cannot shoot with that kind of accuracy under duress.