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Andrew NDB
07-09-2016, 01:25 PM
http://www.thenational.ae/blogs/scene-heard/back-to-the-drawing-board-for-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-creator-kevin-eastman

Apparently the Platinum Dunes movies possess "the darker edge of the comic books."

Oh, Kevin.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-09-2016, 02:32 PM
http://www.thenational.ae/blogs/scene-heard/back-to-the-drawing-board-for-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-creator-kevin-eastman

Apparently the Platinum Dunes movies possess "the darker edge of the comic books."

Oh, Kevin.

I knew without reading he'd have nothing but good things to say.

I really can't take the man seriously. If it's TMNT, he approves. That's it. I appreciate his work and his enthusiasm, but he has pretty much zero credibility with me.

"Lost Angeles", huh? What happened to his "Fistful of Blood?" Did that already tank? I read the first two issues and it's staple Eastman run-and-gun with some blood-and-boobs thrown in for fun.

Autbot_Benz
07-09-2016, 02:40 PM
I knew without reading he'd have nothing but good things to say.

I really can't take the man seriously. If it's TMNT, he approves. That's it. I appreciate his work and his enthusiasm, but he has pretty much zero credibility with me.

"Lost Angeles", huh? What happened to his "Fistful of Blood?" Did that already tank? I read the first two issues and it's staple Eastman run-and-gun with some blood-and-boobs thrown in for fun.

I mean this is the same Eastman who thought Next Mutation was a good idea :lol:

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-09-2016, 02:50 PM
I mean this is the same Eastman who thought Next Mutation was a good idea :lol:

I've found that Bodycount best sums up his approach:

Run and gun, blood and boobs. Loud noise, no intelligence.

Andrew NDB
07-09-2016, 03:36 PM
I mean this is the same Eastman who thought Next Mutation was a good idea :lol:

Or more interestingly promised it would feature "older, angrier, grittier Turtles."

NinjaPug
07-09-2016, 04:04 PM
Almost as bad as Kevin comparing the 2014 film's fight scenes to The Raid.

neatoman
07-09-2016, 04:06 PM
http://www.thenational.ae/blogs/scene-heard/back-to-the-drawing-board-for-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-creator-kevin-eastman

Apparently the Platinum Dunes movies possess "the darker edge of the comic books."

Oh, Kevin.

Well, if we're being honest here, "the darker edge of the comic books." was rather superficial in retrospect.

IndigoErth
07-09-2016, 04:28 PM
"the darker edge of the comic books."
I can't really speak to being too familiar with the comics at this point in time, but even then the darkness of those films is pretty limited...

Darkest part of the second is probably just the mood and conflict between the Turtles themselves.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-09-2016, 04:31 PM
There's a difference between darkness and conflict.

Platinum Dunes has ZERO darkness. Darkness is Splinter forced to consume rats to survive, or the Turtles wondering what their role in City at War is and if all of the deaths and violence aren't their own fault...

Comic book films like The Dark Knight or Captain America Civil War have "darkness" in them.

Hell, some Pixar films have more darkness in them than anything PD has ever done.

Vicky82
07-09-2016, 04:33 PM
There's a difference between darkness and conflict.

Platinum Dunes has ZERO darkness. Darkness is Splinter forced to consume rats to survive, or the Turtles wondering what their role in City at War is and if all of the deaths and violence aren't their own fault...

Comic book films like The Dark Knight or Captain America Civil War have "darkness" in them.

Hell, some Pixar films have more darkness in them than anything PD has ever done.

The Nick Toon is more darker than the PD movies.

Etsyturtle2
07-09-2016, 04:37 PM
The Nick Toon is more darker than the PD movies.

More darker

IndigoErth
07-09-2016, 04:40 PM
Pretty much my point, that that was the closest thing to it, which isn't really anything.

And true about Nick. Those little guys witnessed Splinter murdered even. :ohwell:


If PD wants to ever venture into a third and add some darkness, then, I dunno... do something big, like kill of Fox's April. And Vern maybe. That would be okay. Distraught Casey then can have a break down and snap, becoming a Casey we recognize.

Prob why those films won't go dark though. They'd end up having to be rated R and lose all that kid money.

Yup, HBO or something needs a TMNT project.

Panda_Kahn_fan
07-09-2016, 04:46 PM
I do disagree with him on the Platinum Dunes films, yet his opinion holds weight with me because he co-created these characters. If he wants to turn the turtles into four mimes fighting an evil clown shredder I won't argue with him, because he co-made these characters. In my book, he can do whatever he wants with them.

Doesn't mean others have to like it, though.

TurtleTitan97
07-09-2016, 04:49 PM
I do disagree with him on the Platinum Dunes films, yet his opinion holds weight with me because he co-created these characters. If he wants to turn the turtles into four mimes fighting an evil clown shredder I won't argue with him, because he co-made these characters. In my book, he can do whatever he wants with them.

But that would still be a terrible idea. Co-creator or not, you shouldn't just change your characters to become vastly different than before. Otherwise it would just turn off fans.

Panda_Kahn_fan
07-09-2016, 04:59 PM
But that would still be a terrible idea. Co-creator or not, you shouldn't just change your characters to become vastly different than before. Otherwise it would just turn off fans.

I said it was his right, not that it wasn't a terrible idea. He can do what he likes, doesn't mean anyone else has to like or support it. Without fan support, and idea usually (though not all the time) fails.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
07-09-2016, 07:49 PM
Over a decade ago, I saw a TMNT cartoon (aka the 2003 one) which featured Donatello in a future where Mikey had one of his arm's gone, Leo was pretty much blind, Raph had lost an eye, and everyone died at the end except Donatello and an older April. And Donny killed Shredder.

That's 10x darker than anything in these movies. And that was a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

This crap, on the other hand? Has farting rhinos/pigs, a GQ Casey Jones, boners, and a nunchucking vehicle that also shoots sewer lids.

What edge is he talking about? The edge of the cliff that fans wanted to jump off of after watching these stupid things?

The only thing dark about these movies is the BS these people are shoveling into faces.

With all due respect to Mr. Kevin Eastman...but please remind us again about those 'Fight Scenes reminiscent of The Raid & Fist of Legend' that you said would be in these films.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-09-2016, 08:45 PM
Over a decade ago, I saw a TMNT cartoon (aka the 2003 one) which featured Donatello in a future where Mikey had one of his arm's gone, Leo was pretty much blind, Raph had lost an eye, and everyone died at the end except Donatello and an older April. And Donny killed Shredder.

That's 10x darker than anything in these movies. And that was a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

This crap, on the other hand? Has farting rhinos/pigs, a GQ Casey Jones, boners, and a nunchucking vehicle that also shoots sewer lids.

What edge is he talking about? The edge of the cliff that fans wanted to jump off of after watching these stupid things?

The only thing dark about these movies is the BS these people are shoveling into faces.

With all due respect to Mr. Kevin Eastman...but please remind us again about those 'Fight Scenes reminiscent of The Raid & Fist of Legend' that you said would be in these films.

Oh my, I think I'm in love... :tlol:

Andrew NDB
08-30-2016, 03:27 PM
What edge is he talking about? The edge of the cliff that fans wanted to jump off of after watching these stupid things?

Or even contemplating watching these things.

Galactus
08-30-2016, 08:07 PM
It's quotes like this that makes me think that just like everyone involved took very much the wrong lessons from TMNT 2014 as in: well people didn't like that the turtles were super strong brawlers so in the sequel we'll barely show them fighting at all that even if we do get a reboot I still fear it wont fix any of the problems with the Platinum Dunes.

I can see some Paramount execs sitting round a table and saying "so there's some scenes at night? Clearly this was too dark and edgy. We need to make it lighter still. Problem solved."

Xav
08-30-2016, 08:14 PM
Prob why those films won't go dark though. They'd end up having to be rated R and lose all that kid money.Both the 4Kids and Nick cartoons can be dark and have a TV-Y7 rating. There is really is no reason why a PG-13 Turtles film couldn't be dark.

Andrew NDB
08-10-2017, 11:27 AM
Both the 4Kids and Nick cartoons can be dark and have a TV-Y7 rating.

They can.

There is really is no reason why a PG-13 Turtles film couldn't be dark.

No reason in the world, really. There are many properties where the lack of an R-rating actually does hurt the thing... TMNT isn't one of them, and I'm generally the first guy to advocate blood and guts.

AquaParade
08-10-2017, 01:12 PM
They can.



No reason in the world, really. There are many properties where the lack of an R-rating actually does hurt the thing... TMNT isn't one of them, and I'm generally the first guy to advocate blood and guts.

Agreed. Although I would take an R-rated tmnt movie over pg-13, if done tastefully. I'm fully aware I'm in the minority and it will never happen, but I like my turtles to experiment with language and substances, like teenagers tend to. Some of that would potentially require an "R" rating, but then again maybe not.
I don't think my vision of the tmnt matches up with most fans these days, who would maybe rahter do without that aspect.

MikeandRaph87
08-10-2017, 01:46 PM
I knew without reading he'd have nothing but good things to say.

I really can't take the man seriously. If it's TMNT, he approves. That's it. I appreciate his work and his enthusiasm, but he has pretty much zero credibility with me.

"Lost Angeles", huh? What happened to his "Fistful of Blood?" Did that already tank? I read the first two issues and it's staple Eastman run-and-gun with some blood-and-boobs thrown in for fun.

Kevin is overly positive and Peter is overly negative. Neither is realistic. However, together their opinions make sense. Kevin wants continued work while Peter does not care which plays heavily into their demeanors.

mrmaczaps
08-10-2017, 10:56 PM
Over a decade ago, I saw a TMNT cartoon (aka the 2003 one) which featured Donatello in a future where Mikey had one of his arm's gone, Leo was pretty much blind, Raph had lost an eye, and everyone died at the end except Donatello and an older April. And Donny killed Shredder.

That's 10x darker than anything in these movies. And that was a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

This crap, on the other hand? Has farting rhinos/pigs, a GQ Casey Jones, boners, and a nunchucking vehicle that also shoots sewer lids.

What edge is he talking about? The edge of the cliff that fans wanted to jump off of after watching these stupid things?

The only thing dark about these movies is the BS these people are shoveling into faces.

With all due respect to Mr. Kevin Eastman...but please remind us again about those 'Fight Scenes reminiscent of The Raid & Fist of Legend' that you said would be in these films.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

So spot on...

Eastman seems for some, to be able to do no wrong, but he did basically abandon the Turtles in 2000ish... sold out his shares to Peter.... and still here, alot of the time Peter gets the most crap for not finishing volume 4.... at least Pete disapproves of the crappy parts of the Turtles, his or others.... lol.

mrmaczaps
08-10-2017, 10:59 PM
Agreed. Although I would take an R-rated tmnt movie over pg-13, if done tastefully. I'm fully aware I'm in the minority and it will never happen, but I like my turtles to experiment with language and substances, like teenagers tend to. Some of that would potentially require an "R" rating, but then again maybe not.
I don't think my vision of the tmnt matches up with most fans these days, who would maybe rahter do without that aspect.

Some teenagers do, some don't. I'd rather not see the bro's smokin dope and shooting heroin.... And please, no animal/human TIMNT bits... Can go further, not seeing everything... We have had origin stories... next up in some meat on the bones.

Opening credits, Marvel like bits of origin (flashback, whatever) and then move the plot forward to something new.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-13-2017, 04:30 PM
I would personally like to see what kind of movie Kevin himself would create if he had total creative freedom- write his own script, director and crew adhering to his vision, no compromising to corporate interests or focus groups, what do you all think we'd get?

TigerClaw
08-13-2017, 06:41 PM
I would personally like to see what kind of movie Kevin himself would create if he had total creative freedom- write his own script, director and crew adhering to his vision, no compromising to corporate interests or focus groups, what do you all think we'd get?
I wonder if he and Peter Laird were hands on with the 1990 movie, since it was pretty much an Indy movie.

Andrew NDB
08-13-2017, 06:48 PM
I would personally like to see what kind of movie Kevin himself would create if he had total creative freedom- write his own script, director and crew adhering to his vision, no compromising to corporate interests or focus groups, what do you all think we'd get?

All by himself? It would be like the Mirage "Return to New York" story with violence teetering more towards a "Bodycount" level. With parkour ninjas.

sdp
08-13-2017, 09:41 PM
It's cool to see people ragging on Eastman after Laird got ragged on for so many years and people saw him as the savior. I guess we understand now that TMNT really was both Laird and Eastman who put each other in check.

Redeemer
08-13-2017, 09:55 PM
I just wish they would make a more loyal movie adaptation of the Mirage series. After reading the original Mirage series I realized how much better the movie could have been. Its still a good movie, but it could have been so much better.
Hell I would love to see a movie along the lines of the 2k3 show.

Andrew NDB
08-13-2017, 10:13 PM
I just wish they would make a more loyal movie adaptation of the Mirage series. After reading the original Mirage series I realized how much better the movie could have been. Its still a good movie, but it could have been so much better.

You had me until...

Hell I would love to see a movie along the lines of the 2k3 show.

... this part.

Redeemer
08-13-2017, 10:37 PM
You had me until...



... this part.

Andrew I doesn't matter little you value the 2k3 series. A movie based on the 2k3 series would be infinitely better than any movie we have had so far. You love the Mirage series and the 2k3 is a cartoon is a adaptation of those comics therefore you would think at some level you enjoyed or at least respected the 2k3 series and would probably enjoy a movie based around the 2k3 cartoon with the same tone. Also when I talk about the 2k3 series I am referring to seasons 1-5 only.

DestronMirage22
08-13-2017, 11:43 PM
All by himself? It would be like the Mirage "Return to New York" story with violence teetering more towards a "Bodycount" level. With parkour ninjas.

Pretty much this.
All you're missing is an extremely busty April in a skin-tight jumpsuit and you have a typical Kevin story. :lol: :roll:

Powder
08-14-2017, 12:34 AM
Maybe in 1995. Now, I think it'd be something more like The Blue Door.

Think of the 4th movie pitch, Threezero designs, etc. Wildly different, edgy, some sort of trans-dimensional hiccup, new powers, etc.

Andrew NDB
08-14-2017, 12:43 AM
Andrew I doesn't matter little you value the 2k3 series. A movie based on the 2k3 series would be infinitely better than any movie we have had so far.

Well, you have a point there.

You love the Mirage series and the 2k3 is a cartoon is a adaptation of those comics therefore you would think at some level you enjoyed or at least respected the 2k3 series

Except it's a show that's about 1 part those comics, and about 4 or 5 parts random toy stuff and slapstick stuff that simply wasn't there. And is tonally far, far away.

With exceptions. I did watch I, Monster, and the Kirby episode and those seemed fairly dead-on. "Return to New York" was an embarrassment.

AquaParade
08-14-2017, 11:07 AM
Maybe in 1995. Now, I think it'd be something more like The Blue Door.

Think of the 4th movie pitch, Threezero designs, etc. Wildly different, edgy, some sort of trans-dimensional hiccup, new powers, etc.

God, I would actually love something like that. It sounds so fresh compared to the Lukewarm Shredder-Stew we've been served for so long. The Foot is one of my favorite aspects of TMNT but I think we need to sidestep it for a while.

Plus, I sort of like those Threezero designs.

Edit: Wow, looks like the ThreeZero Eastman figures are going for upwards of $200-300. Didn't expect them to be that expensive.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-14-2017, 01:50 PM
All by himself? It would be like the Mirage "Return to New York" story with violence teetering more towards a "Bodycount" level. With parkour ninjas.

And this is bad, how?

myconius
09-22-2017, 08:08 AM
Eastman seems for some, to be able to do no wrong, but he did basically abandon the Turtles in 2000ish... sold out his shares to Peter.... and still here, alot of the time Peter gets the most crap for not finishing volume 4.... at least Pete disapproves of the crappy parts of the Turtles, his or others.... lol.

from bits and pieces i've heard in interviews Kevin and Peter were not getting along at all.

it's not so different than a divorce. only that there is no joint custody of the kids.
i imagine it must have been a very painful thing for Kevin to have to do.
but what's more painful? turning your back on something you love that you created,
or staying in a relationship/partnership that has turned sour.

Andrew NDB
02-03-2018, 07:47 PM
from bits and pieces i've heard in interviews Kevin and Peter were not getting along at all.

it's not so different than a divorce. only that there is no joint custody of the kids.
i imagine it must have been a very painful thing for Kevin to have to do.
but what's more painful? turning your back on something you love that you created,
or staying in a relationship/partnership that has turned sour.

I don't think it was a not getting along thing. NT:TNM seemed to be the turning point, though.

Vegita-San
02-04-2018, 10:52 AM
With exceptions. I did watch I, Monster, and the Kirby episode and those seemed fairly dead-on. "Return to New York" was an embarrassment.

With all due respect, nothing will please you mirage fans at this point.

RTNY was a MUCH better improvement over the mirage version.
focused on pure story with fun mixed in, and cut out alot of stuff not needed.

and who wasn't shocked when leo was allowed to cut of shredders head? someone actually got fired over allowing that.

AquaParade
02-04-2018, 11:13 AM
With all due respect, nothing will please you mirage fans at this point.

RTNY was a MUCH better improvement over the mirage version.
focused on pure story with fun mixed in, and cut out alot of stuff not needed.

and who wasn't shocked when leo was allowed to cut of shredders head? someone actually got fired over allowing that.

I would love to hear an actual fleshed our argument on how tmnt 2k3 did RTNY better than the Mirage books. The fact that they are two completely different mediums aside, I still don’t think I could be convinced.

2K3 did an admirable job adapting the comic in cartoon form, but the action-packed layouts in part 1 of Eastman and Laird’s RTNY and the final page of part 3, with the boys standing upon the hill, watching Saki’s body burn easily trumps anything in the 2k3 version for me. I give 2K3 credit for successfully bringing together it’s various plot threads here (tmnt long awaited showdown with Shredder, Stockman’s revenge on both parties) as well as some nicely animated action scenes.

There is also the general sense of gravitas, or sense of finality captured much more eloquently in the Mirage books. Less exposition and more *Donatello blocking an exit and the turtles unsheathing their weapons as they announce “no one leaves”.*

Vegita-San
02-04-2018, 11:27 AM
re stuff not needed.

stuff like the Worm Shredder. if the Real Shredder was kept around up until at least issue 22, it would have provided a more satisfying ending to him and given him a bit more to do.

of course, all that is hindsight. who knows if it would have worked out the same if that had been the case.

I don't think you ever would have gotten a funeral pyre and helmet on sword in a kids cartoon. i'm shocked we even got the head chopping.

AquaParade
02-04-2018, 11:38 AM
re stuff not needed.

stuff like the Worm Shredder. if the Real Shredder was kept around up until at least issue 22, it would have provided a more satisfying ending to him and given him a bit more to do.

of course, all that is hindsight. who knows if it would have worked out the same if that had been the case.

I don't think you ever would have gotten a funeral pyre and helmet on sword in a kids cartoon. i'm shocked we even got the head chopping.

You’re right that we wouldn’t have gotten that in a cartoon. Cartoons are limiting, whereas the Mirage adaption lived by its own rules.

Despite me prefering the Mirage version, I think Shredder picking his head up off the ground in 2K3 was pretty damn brilliant in the way it flipped fan expectations on their head, built up a new mystery, and got to have its cake too a bit with the “decapitation” scene all at once. Good stuff. Still, I’ll take the Mirage ending over that.

I can see why you feel that way about the Shredder. I find the worm-Shredder idea just straight up cool, weird, and fun, but it does sort of seem a bit random and meaningless.

Vegita-San
02-04-2018, 11:54 AM
unfortunately, eliminating that also makes the shredder clones that appear human in the 4kids series kind of pointless too.

how does an utrom create that? oh well..

Panda_Kahn_fan
02-04-2018, 01:30 PM
I personally think if the ever did return to New York, the could incorporate elements from the 4kids adaptation- like the 3-way war between the purple dragons, the foot, and the mob allied with Baxter Stockman

Andrew NDB
02-04-2018, 01:39 PM
Are you people high? RTNY in Mirage was a balls-to-the-walls redemption and vengeance crescendo that paid off on everything before it and more in the utmost no-nonsense way. The 4Kids story spent all of its time on gags and goof and Leo chasing around a floating Foot Mystic or something. SAD! Embarrassing to watch.

Who cares if Leo cut the head off a robot? Oooh, how edgy for all of 10 seconds. How groundbreaking! Please.

FredWolfLeonardo
02-04-2018, 01:45 PM
Who cares if Leo cut the head off a robot? Oooh, how edgy for all of 10 seconds. How groundbreaking! Please.

To be fair however, people watching it for the first time didn't know that Shredder was an Utrom yet. Leo didn't either and went in with the full intention of killing his foe.

Vegita-San
02-04-2018, 01:45 PM
like i said, nothing will make you people happy.

I bet you even had flaws with the don/kirby episode which was all but a straight shot to shot remake :).

Andrew NDB
02-04-2018, 01:47 PM
I bet you even had flaws with the don/kirby episode which was all but a straight shot to shot remake :).

That was the only one I liked.

Panda_Kahn_fan
02-04-2018, 01:55 PM
Are you people high? RTNY in Mirage was a balls-to-the-walls redemption and vengeance crescendo that paid off on everything before it and more in the utmost no-nonsense way. The 4Kids story spent all of its time on gags and goof and Leo chasing around a floating Foot Mystic or something. SAD! Embarrassing to watch.

Who cares if Leo cut the head off a robot? Oooh, how edgy for all of 10 seconds. How groundbreaking! Please.

I said story elements could be used from the 4kids version, the mob, Baxter, and the dragons could be added to the plot, replacing the useless stuff, like the guy gettign blown up in the porn shop, and other things that added zero to the story. It could still carry all the bloody violence and vengeance themes you love so much.

AquaParade
02-04-2018, 02:16 PM
Are you people high? RTNY in Mirage was a balls-to-the-walls redemption and vengeance crescendo that paid off on everything before it and more in the utmost no-nonsense way. The 4Kids story spent all of its time on gags and goof and Leo chasing around a floating Foot Mystic or something. SAD! Embarrassing to watch.

Who cares if Leo cut the head off a robot? Oooh, how edgy for all of 10 seconds. How groundbreaking! Please.

Did you read the conversation or just read one post? You seem confused.

And as fun and awesome as RTNY by Mirage is, I wouldn’t say it “paid off on everything before it and more”... I mean, unless I was writing an overblown foreword for it or something. Just seems hyperbolic.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s not awesome. It’s a great action-packed three-parter though with some fantastic layouts. It’s badass, has some good character moments between Leo and Raph.

And yes, it’s leagues better than the 2k3 but that one is only “embarrassing to watch” if you’re over 12 years old and someone walks in the room. It’s actually quite fine for a kids cartoon. Not Batman the animated series, but fun nonetheless.

Coola Yagami
02-04-2018, 02:53 PM
And yes, it’s leagues better than the 2k3 but that one is only “embarrassing to watch” if you’re over 12 years old and someone walks in the room. It’s actually quite fine for a kids cartoon. Not Batman the animated series, but fun nonetheless.

But... why not Batman The Animated Series? Why not make it that good?

Vegita-San
02-04-2018, 03:44 PM
to some of us it was. at least compared to what we got with the fred wolf show.

AquaParade
02-04-2018, 05:02 PM
But... why not Batman The Animated Series? Why not make it that good?

I think that’s a tall order, but maybe one day.

to some of us it was. at least compared to what we got with the fred wolf show.

Well I’m glad you like it, even though I don’t. It’s all subjective in the end.