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ZariusTwo
07-11-2016, 02:57 PM
http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111275673/5315491-7223600734-14682.jpg

MikeandRaph87
07-11-2016, 03:34 PM
An alternate universe ongoing? I might switch over from Amazing which I may read ten days after I pick it up in favor of something that actually interest me.

Etsyturtle2
07-11-2016, 03:40 PM
It's all ****.

Oh sorry I meant cool.

ZariusTwo
07-12-2016, 07:57 AM
An alternate universe ongoing? I might switch over from Amazing which I may read ten days after I pick it up in favor of something that actually interest me.

Well, we don't really know if it's an AU yet. Axel Alonzo and Slott said last year that the stories in Secret Wars would form the building blocks of the Marvel Universe going forward. It could be a situation similar to Lois and Clark where the Parkers are in the regular universe co-existing with the ones who made the deal. Also keep in mind the 616 versions of Peter and MJ "sensed" the battle with Regent from RYV when battling him in the main universe.

myconius
07-13-2016, 08:11 AM
i might have to check this out?

ZariusTwo
07-13-2016, 12:26 PM
i might have to check this out?

Did you enjoy the original Renew Your Vows mini-series?

Raven
07-13-2016, 02:59 PM
As long as Slott has nothing to do with it, I'm in. These brief glimpses into a married Parker life are just torture, if this becomes a new ongoing I might finally start checking out Spider man again.

ZariusTwo
07-24-2016, 06:33 PM
Was'nt much revealed about this at ComicCon other than it being the one stop destination for a married Spidey

MikeandRaph87
07-24-2016, 06:42 PM
Was'nt much revealed about this at ComicCon other than it being the one stop destination for a married Spidey

I want to know if this is replacing Amazing. If its not and they will both be published I want to switch over. Also, will Venom be Eddie Brock again or is it still Flash Thompson just with a more Eddie version appearance?

Shred Head
07-25-2016, 04:33 AM
I want to know if this is replacing Amazing. If its not and they will both be published I want to switch over. Also, will Venom be Eddie Brock again or is it still Flash Thompson just with a more Eddie version appearance?

Sadly Renew Your Vows wont replace Amazing its going to its own thing in it own universe. Although I recommend buying it since its got a great writer and artiest on it. Amazing seems to be sticking with Dan Slott and the Corporate CEO crap. But if sales and and reviews are strong it could always be turned around like DC did with Superman in Rebirth.

As for Venom they have not revealed that info but I think they did say it wont be Flash. I'm hoping it will be Eddie but my guess it will probably be someone new and if its following the trend it will probably be a 15 year old genius Black Girl Marvel seems to love doing that lately.

MikeandRaph87
07-25-2016, 08:23 AM
Sadly Renew Your Vows wont replace Amazing its going to its own thing in it own universe. Although I recommend buying it since its got a great writer and artiest on it. Amazing seems to be sticking with Dan Slott and the Corporate CEO crap. But if sales and and reviews are strong it could always be turned around like DC did with Superman in Rebirth.

As for Venom they have not revealed that info but I think they did say it wont be Flash. I'm hoping it will be Eddie but my guess it will probably be someone new and if its following the trend it will probably be a 15 year old genius Black Girl Marvel seems to love doing that lately.


Eddie Brock despite defining the character never held his own ongoing only miniseries. It would be cool to see him return to form in a title. One more information is given I am switching titles. ASM has bored me.

ZariusTwo
07-25-2016, 11:21 AM
They're being pretty secretive about RYV, which is strange since they're indicating it's a different universe, what's there to hide if it's not going to affect the main book? Of course, given what they hinted in this summer's "Power Play" (Peter, MJ, and Regent "sensing" the events of the last Renew Your Vows series), it's clear this WILL mean something for the main book later on.

It could be revealed the RYV Parkers have been the real ones all along, much like they're indicating with Superman and his family over at DC

ZariusTwo
07-25-2016, 01:00 PM
Well, the October solicits are out and there's no sign of Renew Your Vows. I bet it's been delayed due to Stegman having a history with missing deadlines

ZariusTwo
07-29-2016, 02:09 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoKgQI1WYAASoI7.jpg

Some artwork from the series

ZariusTwo
08-06-2016, 08:44 AM
Another sample from Renew Your Vows

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpCXovXW8AANUia.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-08-2016, 07:54 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpM1k9IWEAAgTal.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpRrnIHXgAA7ts4.jpg

Looks like we've got our first glimpse of RYV Scorpion

MikeandRaph87
08-08-2016, 10:33 AM
Mac Gargan?

This is an ongoing set for September,correct? Wednesday I am switching titles for September.

ZariusTwo
08-08-2016, 11:34 AM
Mac Gargan?

This is an ongoing set for September,correct? Wednesday I am switching titles for September.

Stegman confirmed it's released in either October or November, around the same time the Clone Conspiracy starts. RYV is not on the solicitations list for October, so it must be November.

ZariusTwo
08-10-2016, 12:32 PM
From the letters page of this week's ASM:

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/animehunter2k13/Comic%20Pages/Amazing%20Spider-Man%202015-%20016-019_zpsvqpnuh38.jpg~original

MikeandRaph87
08-10-2016, 03:49 PM
September launch,correct? I am switching to RenewcYour Vows.

ZariusTwo
08-10-2016, 04:06 PM
September launch,correct? I am switching to RenewcYour Vows.

I already told you it's either October or November

ZariusTwo
08-12-2016, 02:40 AM
More from Stegman

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpmnTzaUkAAKTDg.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-12-2016, 03:02 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CprnA5ZW8AAnSGg.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-14-2016, 04:07 AM
First look at Stegman's take on Annie May

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cpw5AJWWYAARnQm.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-16-2016, 05:26 AM
Another sample from Stegman's RYV art

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11129/111295990/5383220-renew.jpg-large

ZariusTwo
08-17-2016, 11:07 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqA2SeJUIAAJ8Kr.jpg

I'm getting the urge to play those pre-premiere Power Rangers Zeo promos now

("you've gotta see it...it's coming...")

MsMarvelDuckie
08-17-2016, 12:18 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up but it looks good! I would definitely go for this.

ZariusTwo
08-17-2016, 01:05 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up

Why not? It's not by Slott, it's from a well regarded writer in Conway, and his recent Carnage series was brilliant.

ZariusTwo
08-17-2016, 03:35 PM
Mary Jane joins her husband and daughter in combatting crime in Renew Your Vows

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/3/35658/5387118-3906534574-asmre.jpg

Spider-Man has had a lot of costumes over the years, and sometimes he seems to swap them out simply to match his mood. Just last week Peter Parker put on a new Spider-Man costume in the pages of Spider-Man/Deadpool #8. However, it isn’t every day that Mary Jane Watson and Peter and MJ’s daughter, Annie, get superhero costumes of their own.

Okay, so Mary Jane did get a Spider-Man costume pretty recently, but she only wore it briefly. This new costume, designed by Ryan Stegman for the upcoming Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows series with writer Gerry Conway, seems like it is built to last for a good, long while. Stegman gave Mary Jane, a professional supermodel, a more fashionable take on the classic Spider-Man look.


“I wanted something sleek and fashionable,” Stegman says of Mary Jane’s design. “Because it's Mary Jane! The white sets her apart from Peter, and the eye mask I think is a nice touch. Mary Jane wouldn't want to cover her hair with a full-face mask!”

Stegman took a somewhat more personal approach to designing the costume for Annie, which has a “safety first” aesthetic to it.

“I approached it as a parent would, since I'm a parent myself,” Stegman explains. “I just taught my son to ride a bike and whenever he gets on that thing I pad him up something fierce. And as parents, MJ and Peter have to be terrified of their daughter swinging around the city of New York! So Annie reluctantly accepts their mandate that she is not allowed to go swinging around without her pads.”

Check out Stegman’s designs and his full cover for Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #1 in the gallery below. The issue goes on sale this fall as part of Marvel NOW!

http://comicbook.com/2016/08/17/exclusive-first-look-at-mary-jane-and-annie-parkers-new-spider-m

MikeandRaph87
08-17-2016, 06:27 PM
Are they going to go with a third Amazing Spider-Man#1 in as many years alongside this?

ZariusTwo
08-18-2016, 04:11 AM
September launch,correct? I am switching to RenewcYour Vows.

ASM is continuing as normal for the time being, but it will have an additional mini-series launching that will carry the bulk of the next big story, "Clone Conspiracy"

Here are my additional thoughts on RYV (taken from my Zaredit blog)

Like with a lot of things, Marvel have the monkey's paw attached to whatever it is the fans want...you wanted a happily married Peter? Well you're getting an MJ who's going to fight crime alongside him with his daughter. You're getting The InWebbables (ok, bad pun)

It makes total sense to distinguish MJ from the MJ of the newspaper strip (who remains a normal girl caught up in a mad world and loves every bit of it) and MC2 (where MJ was a concerned, but relatively stable parent who could be a rock and mentor to her husband and daughter), and the fact this MJ is willing to gut it out and be there for her family shows how tiresome and stale the Mephistoverse version has become, and why it's time to put her and the Amazingly stupid devil dealing Spider-Man Child out to pasture.


Peter being a father works, Peter being an active superhero and a father has only been tried in a few short stories published way back in 2008 during the infancy of Brand New Day, and it was buried in a mere few pages of a large anthology magazine that didn't last too long. Now the premise has larger legs and is poised to take bolder footsteps. It's not afraid to be different or take a risk, and it should be commended for that, all manners of risk should be rewarded, succeed or fail, especially if it lines up with something the fans want to see.


Parker Industries with a family man Peter would also have been a must-buy for me, same with Superior. Things like this can be enhanced with a married Spider-Man, different kinds of stories can be told, stakes can be higher. That's what I want out of RYV, for there to be not just a great family dynamic, but the tensions and perils that can come attached to a seemingly never-ending devotion to power and responsibility. The Spider-Man myth has always been about more than just one man in the world, he owes everything to the likes of characters like MJ forging him into the best he can possibly be, and with her at his side more frequently, he can only get better.

MikeandRaph87
08-18-2016, 09:28 AM
Its done deal now as of next Wednesday I am switching titles after September. This is an interesting premise. I prefer MJ being a supporter on the sidelines, but heroic MJ/ Why not give it a try if she is Mrs. Parker.

It a way it is ironic for Gerry to be writing the title since he "cleared the way" for this to happen.

ZariusTwo
08-18-2016, 11:59 AM
Its done deal now as of next Wednesday I am switching titles after September. This is an interesting premise. I prefer MJ being a supporter on the sidelines, but heroic MJ/ Why not give it a try if she is Mrs. Parker.

Yeah, as I said, the newspaper strip still gives you a sidelined MJ supporting Peter, so it's nice to shake up that set-up a bit in other books

Good point on Conway. It seems all the guys who have advanced the marriage the most have been people who have worked decades for the company. I'd still like to see a younger writer tackle it, so hopefully if the book lasts a long time, Conway can pass the baton.

ZariusTwo
08-20-2016, 06:11 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqQLIkiUkAE6qKP.jpg

Annie saves the wheatcakes!

ZariusTwo
08-21-2016, 03:58 AM
Classic Spidey Status for RYV. Pete and Jonah at the Bugle

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqUp64rWIAI_ahW.jpg

(Not really that nostalgic to me since I see it all the time in the very pro-marriage newspaper comics, but still...yay)

ZariusTwo
08-22-2016, 04:07 PM
Solit for ASM: RYV#1 http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/177/020/original/ASMRENEW2016001_cov_var.jpg?1471893585

GERRY CONWAY (W) • RYAN STEGMAN (A/C)

Variant Cover by ADAM KUBERT

HIP-HOP Variant Cover by TBA

Action Figure Mary Jane & ANNIE Variant Cover by JOHN TYLER CHRISTOPHER

Divided We Stand Variant Cover by TBA

The Parker family is web-slinging and wall-crawling their way into your hearts and into comic shops later this year! Life is good for Peter Parker and Mary Jane; their daughter Annie is their pride and joy, they’re both working and (barely) making ends meet, they’re keeping the streets of New York City safe from super villains…you know, normal family stuff. Oh, did we mention MJ and Annie have Spider-Powers –– just like Peter?! Being Spider-Man just became a family affair...

MsMarvelDuckie
08-22-2016, 10:04 PM
Well this DOES look promising, but I'm still skeptical if this will last or prove the "new" canon for 616 Spidey at any point. I admit I'm intrigued, but I have no access to a comic shop. (And can't afford to buy single issues with shipping costs- I'd have to wait for trades, which might be too late to make a difference.) So as great as this news is, I fear getting my hopes up. But I DO love the new look for M-J!

ZariusTwo
08-23-2016, 06:13 AM
Well this DOES look promising, but I'm still skeptical if this will last or prove the "new" canon for 616 Spidey at any point

I reckon it will be. As I've said numerous times in here, they teased there was a link between this and the current post-OMD canon, also next year is the marriage's 30th anniversary so they're bound to do something around then.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqf66evUkAA8_8Q.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-24-2016, 08:26 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqlJ_7fUsAAGjwr.jpg

WebLurker
08-26-2016, 01:31 AM
I was a fan of the original RYV miniseries, so I'm generally looking forward to this.

Am I the only one who's a little leery about MJ having copies of Peter and Annie's superpowers?

ZariusTwo
08-26-2016, 01:44 PM
I don't mind it, it's not an original idea, but MJ's been normal enough times in these scenarios, it's time she showed she can have Peter's back in different ways.

ZariusTwo
08-29-2016, 03:56 AM
More of Spidey in action from RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq-2krrXEAEudFM.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-30-2016, 03:52 PM
Moloids ambush Spidey

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrHt18rUEAAY7f7.jpg

ZariusTwo
08-31-2016, 12:27 PM
In Silver Surfer#200

Peter finally punches out Mephisto...but it turns out it's a simulcrum of him

ZariusTwo
09-02-2016, 06:17 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrSoo4UUIAACSIF.jpg

MJ looking ticked...perhaps she and Peter get into a tiff while fighting off the Moleoids. What family is'nt without squabbling now and then?

WebLurker
09-03-2016, 01:49 AM
Or maybe's she's just really focused on the problem at hand? Or it's the shape of her mask's lenses that make her look angrier than she really is? It'll be interesting to see this scene in the context of the story and know exactly what's going on.

ZariusTwo
09-07-2016, 10:44 AM
The Spider-Man Unlimited Game also has a special seven-mission event for Annie May Parker which continues her story from the original RYV mini-series. Her parents have given her permission to attend school in the Unlimited Spidey's dimension, but she falls prey to an attack from Mysterio who conjures up her nightmares of Venom from the original RYV story to try to break her spirit. Annie defeats Mysterio and his henchmen and announces she'll attend school as soon as she gets more lunch money

WebLurker
09-08-2016, 01:33 PM
The Spider-Man Unlimited Game also has a special seven-mission event for Annie May Parker which continues her story from the original RYV mini-series. Her parents have given her permission to attend school in the Unlimited Spidey's dimension, but she falls prey to an attack from Mysterio who conjures up her nightmares of Venom from the original RYV story to try to break her spirit. Annie defeats Mysterio and his henchmen and announces she'll attend school as soon as she gets more lunch money

Interesting. Wonder if the game will be counted as part of the comic's continuity, or if it'll be treated as a different RYV timeline?

(I think I saw some screenshots online indicating that Annie will be helping the Mary Jane of the "Unlimited" universe recreate the power armor her mom stole in the final issue of the original RYV story.)

ZariusTwo
09-09-2016, 07:30 AM
Interesting. Wonder if the game will be counted as part of the comic's continuity, or if it'll be treated as a different RYV timeline?

I'm wondering that myself. It seems the consequences of Secret Wars are still felt in the Unlimited game. Mysterio references the fact his RYV version traced Annie to her last school, so that probably explains why Peter and MJ decided to enroll her in the school of another dimension.

It's still not clear what the continuity will be regarding the new RYV comic, MJ having powers implies the events of Spider-Island happened and Peter just never cured her like he did in the original, but that's just guess work.

(I think I saw some screenshots online indicating that Annie will be helping the Mary Jane of the "Unlimited" universe recreate the power armor her mom stole in the final issue of the original RYV story.)

Yeah, that's accurate. Not sure if MJ will be getting her own event when she tries out that armour. The main storyline in Unlimited at the moment is a near-faithful adaptation of the Superior Spider-Man story.

Stegman's back with more from RYV, featuring Annie

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3abuXWcAQc1QX.jpg

WebLurker
09-09-2016, 12:15 PM
I'm wondering that myself. It seems the consequences of Secret Wars are still felt in the Unlimited game. Mysterio references the fact his RYV version traced Annie to her last school, so that probably explains why Peter and MJ decided to enroll her in the school of another dimension.

If I recall correctly, Hawkeye shot Mysterio in the face in RYV issue 4. Course, since this is Mysterio, he could've faked getting hit, but it is interesting that the game would function as a sequel to the comic, but ignore an element of it.

It's still not clear what the continuity will be regarding the new RYV comic, MJ having powers implies the events of Spider-Island happened and Peter just never cured her like he did in the original, but that's just guess work.

On thinking it over, I'm guessing that the comic and game writers will probably not go out of their way to sync up, based on, from what I've heard, the game tends to do its own adaptation of stuff. If the two remain consistent so that they can say on the same timeline, it'll probably be a happy coincidence. I'd probably prefer if the two were kept separate to some extent; I wouldn't want missing gaps in the story that require a game I can't play.

(That said, if Unlimited is still running when RYV the series hits, I'll bet that elements will probably show up in the game somewhere along the line.)

Yeah, that's accurate. Not sure if MJ will be getting her own event when she tries out that armour. The main storyline in Unlimited at the moment is a near-faithful adaptation of the Superior Spider-Man story.

Can't play the game (although I keep current downloads on the computer on the off-chance I get a phone that can), but I thought that they were doing some "Spidey-2099 stuff currently?

(Hope the "Superior" stuff wraps up minus the Parker Industries story; I'm not fond of that setting and wouldn't want to play a game using them.)[/QUOTE]

ZariusTwo
09-09-2016, 03:03 PM
(That said, if Unlimited is still running when RYV the series hits, I'll bet that elements will probably show up in the game somewhere along the line.)

I agree, maybe MJ in her Spider-Costume from the new RYV series will be an extra outfit for the already available "Spider-Island" MJ.

Can't play the game (although I keep current downloads on the computer on the off-chance I get a phone that can), but I thought that they were doing some "Spidey-2099 stuff currently?

They are, and there's a "Symbiote Invasion" event coming up. I don't play the game either, but someone who does over on Comicvine and the Crawlspace forums keeps the fans informed of what goes on.

(Hope the "Superior" stuff wraps up minus the Parker Industries story; I'm not fond of that setting and wouldn't want to play a game using them.)

I saw various trailers earlier in the year that unfortunately confirm we're getting the Parker Industries storyline, and the Superior storyline has already dealt with setting that up.

WebLurker
09-10-2016, 12:53 AM
I agree, maybe MJ in her Spider-Costume from the new RYV series will be an extra outfit for the already available "Spider-Island" MJ.

I'd go for that if I could play the game.



They are, and there's a "Symbiote Invasion" event coming up. I don't play the game either, but someone who does over on Comicvine and the Crawlspace forums keeps the fans informed of what goes on.

I'm really starting to envy players now.



I saw various trailers earlier in the year that unfortunately confirm we're getting the Parker Industries storyline, and the Superior storyline has already dealt with setting that up.

Okay, maybe I don't envy them that much. :tgrin:

In all seriousness, though, it makes sense that they would want to include that, and I could see how it could be a fun update to the game; it could mean more suit options and gadgets for gameplay and more international locations to set the game sessions. Thinking it over, I have to admit that it sounds like more fun, at any rate, then just reading about it in a comic book. (Hope they keep Peter and MJ dating in the game, unlike the comics.)

In regards to something you posted before:

MJ having powers [in the RVY ongoing] implies the events of Spider-Island happened and Peter just never cured her like he did in the original, but that's just guess work.

I never did read "Spider-Island," so I could be off, but I'm not sure if that's the answer on two counts. First of all, I thought that the spider virus started with the victims gaining Spider-Man powers, but then they turned into monsters (per the Secret Wars "Spider-Island," which took place in the reality where it ran unchecked). That would make it seem unlikely that MJ would be able to use the virus to gain her powers.

Secondly, could the Spider-Island incident even happen in the RYV world? The original comic story was set in the post-OMD Spider-Man setting, meaning it was arguably in a different timeline than the one that RYV branches off of. I was even under the impression that the original RYV miniseries took place in a timeframe after "Spider-Island.

Now, I suppose that they could just say that "Spider-Island" happened under different circumstances and that Peter made a different cure for MJ that let her keep the powers with none of the bad side effects. Although I think that would be one of the better ways to give MJ powers, I have to admit that it seems a little complicated, esp. as it depends on a comic series that readers may or may not know. (In fact, my first guess is that MJ's powers are tied into some variation of Regent's tech.)

ZariusTwo
09-10-2016, 08:36 AM
I never did read "Spider-Island," so I could be off, but I'm not sure if that's the answer on two counts. First of all, I thought that the spider virus started with the victims gaining Spider-Man powers, but then they turned into monsters (per the Secret Wars "Spider-Island," which took place in the reality where it ran unchecked). That would make it seem unlikely that MJ would be able to use the virus to gain her powers.

You're right in that the powers eventually turned them all into monsters. MJ was able to resist it longer because of her sexual relationship with Peter over the years (no, I'm not joking, that was the explanation).

Secondly, could the Spider-Island incident even happen in the RYV world? The original comic story was set in the post-OMD Spider-Man setting, meaning it was arguably in a different timeline than the one that RYV branches off of. I was even under the impression that the original RYV miniseries took place in a timeframe after "Spider-Island.

The original RYV series was entirely it's own thing actually, not connected to 616 at all. Captain America has a different outfit with the A on the chest and star on the mask), Eddie Brock was still Venom (with the design used for Mac Gargan's stint with the symbiote), and Peter had never been an Avenger in that time frame, and was only just being tempted to join them when both Venom and Regent attacked in the inaugural issue, which led to Regent killing the heroes and Peter killing Venom.

I was merely speculating about the part with MJ having powers and recalling the one story where, canonically, that had happened, coupled with the confirmation we got in the letters pages of ASM that this series takes place in a world where "Mephisto never interfered".

It's very confusing at the moment. Adding confusion was this bizarre revelation in ASM earlier this year Regent, Peter and MJ from 616 all vaguely remember the events of RYV despite the fact they had nothing to do with what those alternate versions were up to (616 MJ was killed in the incursion, and 616 Peter had an altogether different mission in Secret Wars)

I have to admit that it seems a little complicated, esp. as it depends on a comic series that readers may or may not know. (In fact, my first guess is that MJ's powers are tied into some variation of Regent's tech.)

It may be as simple as that, since to have two different series called RYV with different continuities would be quite a chore to process. I'm just trying to make some sense of it all, though Marvel have gotten pretty lax with continuity over the years.

WebLurker
09-10-2016, 11:05 AM
You're right in that the powers eventually turned them all into monsters. MJ was able to resist it longer because of her sexual relationship with Peter over the years (no, I'm not joking, that was the explanation).

Okay...

The original RYV series was entirely it's own thing actually, not connected to 616 at all. Captain America has a different outfit with the A on the chest and star on the mask), Eddie Brock was still Venom (with the design used for Mac Gargan's stint with the symbiote), and Peter had never been an Avenger in that time frame, and was only just being tempted to join them when both Venom and Regent attacked in the inaugural issue, which led to Regent killing the heroes and Peter killing Venom.

On the other hand, we saw some very specific references to 616 stories in the original RYV miniseries (not counting the basic origin story):

- When MJ gives Peter the spare black costume in the second issue, they both recall that she had asked him to stop using it, which happened in 1988's ASM #300.

- When MJ is reflecting on Peter's Spider-Man career, the flashbacks show some very specific 616 stories, like the original "Night Gwen Stacy" died and the rescue of astronaut Jameson's shuttle.

- Peter's flashbacks in Regents tank of first meeting MJ and their first kiss depict the 616 versions.

Because of that, I took it to be that the RYV timeline more or less diverged from 616 somewhere between Peter and MJ's marriage and the '90s Clone Saga (which is where the Mayday birth would've happened), specifically based on the implication that Peter and MJ hadn't been married that long before the first RYV issue.

If so, this would set the timeframe of the first issue be long before Garagan got Venom or Spider-Man was up for Avengers membership. Cap's new costume could be part of a butterfly effect and I thought that Venom could change his patterns. (Bear in mind, I got most of this info about the 616 comics online, so I'll be willing to correct myself if I drew inaccurate conclusions from it.)

I was merely speculating about the part with MJ having powers and recalling the one story where, canonically, that had happened, coupled with the confirmation we got in the letters pages of ASM that this series takes place in a world where "Mephisto never interfered".

Yeah, I understand it's all speculation, I'm just chiming in. Based on the letter, do you think that means that the RYV series won't be a continuation of the original miniseries? (Although, for what it's worth, wasn't the original explanation that the original RYV series replaced "Brand New Day" as the first post-OMD story -- since the point was a world where the Parkers' marriage was allowed to remain intact. That, of course, didn't pan pan out when the actual comic seemed to be set years before that timeframe. So, I'm not sure how accurate official statements are!)

It's very confusing at the moment. Adding confusion was this bizarre revelation in ASM earlier this year Regent, Peter and MJ from 616 all vaguely remember the events of RYV despite the fact they had nothing to do with what those alternate versions were up to (616 MJ was killed in the incursion, and 616 Peter had an altogether different mission in Secret Wars)

Is it possible that Slott was just including that as an Easter egg (either to the RYV story he wrote, the upcoming series, or both)? Slott seems to love Spider-Man Easter eggs and is not exactly known for logical storytelling in ASM, esp. in regards to how his series fits with earlier material.



It may be as simple as that, since to have two different series called RYV with different continuities would be quite a chore to process.

In all honest, I don't think it would, given that there are a lot of properties today that are doing that, like Star Trek, but I am a sci-fi fan so I may be more used to it.

I'm just trying to make some sense of it all, though Marvel have gotten pretty lax with continuity over the years.

Maybe it'll be a Stargate-like thing: The original miniseries happened in broad strokes, but some parts may not be accurate.

ZariusTwo
09-10-2016, 02:11 PM
Because of that, I took it to be that the RYV timeline more or less diverged from 616 somewhere between Peter and MJ's marriage and the '90s Clone Saga (which is where the Mayday birth would've happened).

Annie is based off the child Peter and MJ would have had if they had remained married. In One More Day it was never specifically said if she was destined to be the second child they would have had, or if she was the first child they would have had, somehow surviving the miscarriage as had been indicated at the end of the clone saga (and proven accurately in the Spider-Girl era)

The evidence for the case of it being the second child is that Annie's middle name is "May", when Peter and MJ had both agreed in the Clone Saga that the child's first name would be May, Annie being the first name here indicates Peter and MJ wanted to honour the memory of the first stillborn child but wanting to move on from it at the same time, hence naming her after MJ's aunt Anna.

Another note of interest is there's a story set before OMD where the One Above All visits Peter and shows him a future with MJ and two children called Benjy and Mary (so we now have a daughter named after Peter's mother, or MJ's first name, or likely both), so far nothing has come of that detail. I think this was done specifically to assure people that in some far distant future, the Peter and MJ affected by OMD will reconcile and have these children.

Based on the letter, do you think that means that the RYV series won't be a continuation of the original miniseries?

That's what I'm led to believe based on promotional material so far, but could be wrong.

Is it possible that Slott was just including that as an Easter egg (either to the RYV story he wrote, the upcoming series, or both).

I believe he threw that in as a tease for the upcoming series so that it mattered more. When promoting the original series, Axel Alonzo and Slott both said the Secret Wars tie-ins would all matter to the overall master plan for several characters at the company.

Also keep in mind Marvel have been pushing Mephisto references a lot in Spider-Man appearances in other books, particularly Spider-Man/Deadpool which deals with Peter being haunted by cryptic words from Mephisto about his "greatest fall" and how he will forever feel emptiness.

WebLurker
09-11-2016, 02:12 AM
Annie is based off the child Peter and MJ would have had if they had remained married.

Well, I did listed to a Spider-Man podcast that artist Adam Kubert was a guest-star on. He did say on that that he was specifically told to base Annie on the hypothetical future Parker daughter in OMD (although Kubert's own kid was the main model for the character in practice.) However, I don't think that means that Annie has to be the OMD kid (and the fact that Annie was born in a timeframe where none of the Civil War stuff had happened would seem to argue that they're different characters).

In One More Day it was never specifically said if she was destined to be the second child they would have had, or if she was the first child they would have had, somehow surviving the miscarriage as had been indicated at the end of the clone saga (and proven accurately in the Spider-Girl era)

I guess.

The evidence for the case of it being the second child is that Annie's middle name is "May", when Peter and MJ had both agreed in the Clone Saga that the child's first name would be May, Annie being the first name here indicates Peter and MJ wanted to honour the memory of the first stillborn child but wanting to move on from it at the same time, hence naming her after MJ's aunt Anna.

The Marvel Wiki actually states that MJ's aunt's full name is "Anna May Watson," leading me to guess that Annie was named after her maternal great-aunt, and it was a bonus that it was also gave her the name of her paternal great-aunt/adoptive grandmother.

(For what it's worth, if I recall correctly, Anna Watson acted as an anchor of sorts for her niece during her troubled childhood and played a part in introducing MJ and Peter, so I could buy that the Parkers would consider using the name instead of "May." I actually kind of liked that they went this route, since it seems like most stories involving Peter and MJ as parents usually have the kids named after Peter's aunt and uncle. While there's nothing wrong with that, it is kind of nice to see that MJ's life gets brought forward, too.)

I also think that there's a good argument that, in the RYV universe, at least, Annie was the Parker's only kid; Peter and MJ never talk about having lost a child before, which you'd think would come up given that they're running the risk of losing another. In the first RYV issue, MJ says: "Maybe you should have a talk with [the other superheroes about picking up Spider-Man's beat]. You have a wife and kid now" (my emphasis). Spidey himself tells Iron Man something similar, as if Peter and MJ's marriage and parenthood are both very recent events. If so, that would preclude Annie having an older sister.

Finally, when Peter relives his life in the tank during issue five, we see nothing about a child that was lost, and this includes snapshots of his uncle and aunt's funerals, milestones of how he and MJ met, fell in love, were married, and Annie's birth. If Mayday was born and miscarried (or whatever) in this timeline prior, I'm pretty sure that that would've been shown in the montage (which is specifically said to be made of the most important things that happened to Peter).

Another note of interest is there's a story set before OMD where the One Above All visits Peter and shows him a future with MJ and two children called Benjy and Mary (so we now have a daughter named after Peter's mother, or MJ's first name, or likely both), so far nothing has come of that detail. I think this was done specifically to assure people that in some far distant future, the Peter and MJ affected by OMD will reconcile and have these children.

The Marvel Wiki lists this future as an official parallel universe to 616, so I think, from Marvel's perspective, 616 Peter and MJ's futures are up in the air and given the bull-crap that we've been getting, I don't think the current management ever wants them to reconcile. (Even if the rules of Marvel's universe dictate that this future should be the correct one, I'm pretty sure they'll ignore it if the story they want to tell doesn't mesh.)

On the bright side, that future's labeling as a parallel universe (instead of a alternate future that Peter and MJ gave up in OMD), does mean that that the original pre-OMD 616 continuity does have a place where all the stories happened as written and at least one more universe where the Parkers are still a married couple.



That's what I'm led to believe based on promotional material so far, but could be wrong.

Any links to those sources? All the ones I've found are either just saying: "RYV is coming" or are upfront that we don't know that much. None of them have asked whether the original miniseries will be part of it or in a separate continuity or given any clues about this topic.

I believe he threw that in as a tease for the upcoming series so that it mattered more. When promoting the original series, Axel Alonzo and Slott both said the Secret Wars tie-ins would all matter to the overall master plan for several characters at the company.

I would love know the behind-the-scenes progress for the series. Specifically, was it always intended to give RYV a follow-up, or was it written with the idea of being a standalone, but the popularity made them change their minds. After all, author Dan Slott did go on record that the story was an idea he pitched because he wanted to write it, not something that Marvel asked him to put together.

Also keep in mind Marvel have been pushing Mephisto references a lot in Spider-Man appearances in other books, particularly Spider-Man/Deadpool which deals with Peter being haunted by cryptic words from Mephisto about his "greatest fall" and how he will forever feel emptiness.

Interesting that they're actually suggesting that OMD was a bad thing for Spider-Man. It seems like a lot of the actual comics have been going out of their way to insinuate that the marriage was harmful to both characters and Peter being single made his life better, or some bull-crap like that.

It could be that Dan Slott just wants to touch on OMD in some fashion (he does seem to enjoy doing stuff like that) and that it has nothing to do with the RYV series? The original RYV, despite the marketing, really had nothing to do with OMD in and of itself.

ZariusTwo
09-11-2016, 05:56 AM
Well, I did listed to a Spider-Man podcast that artist Adam Kubert was a guest-star on. He did say on that that he was specifically told to base Annie on the hypothetical future Parker daughter in OMD (although Kubert's own kid was the main model for the character in practice.) However, I don't think that means that Annie has to be the OMD kid (and the fact that Annie was born in a timeframe where none of the Civil War stuff had happened would seem to argue that they're different characters).

I haven't listened to that podcast, but I was aware about Kubert's daughter being the inspiration for Annie. I don't think it's a coincidence that Annie resembles the child Mephisto conjured up in OMD and then they use that as the basis for an out-of-continuity version. Given how Marvel openly admit they like to profit off their customers by intentionally triggering them, Marvel gave Annie that look specifically because it reminds people of what Peter and MJ sacrificed in OMD.

The Marvel Wiki actually states that MJ's aunt's full name is "Anna May Watson," leading me to guess that Annie was named after her maternal great-aunt, and it was a bonus that it was also gave her the name of her paternal great-aunt/adoptive grandmother.

D'oh, shows I'm still learning when it comes to a franchise I've followed for almost all of my existing life, I didn't know that.


.(Even if the rules of Marvel's universe dictate that this future should be the correct one, I'm pretty sure they'll ignore it if the story they want to tell doesn't mesh.)

That's what sort of happened in 1998 just before the relaunch. Tom DeFalco's last issue of ASM prior to that dealt with a future where a group of archeologists were trying to work out what happened to Spider-Man. Various characters are brought up like Spidey 2099 and Mayday Parker, and they even debate which historians were right about his relationship with MJ, some saying she was killed, some say they divorced, and some said they lived happily together for the rest of their days. I read somewhere Marvel later claimed this story was out-of-continuity also. In this future, MJ becomes very important to the superhero community, and described as the "first lady".

On the bright side, that future's labeling as a parallel universe (instead of a alternate future that Peter and MJ gave up in OMD), does mean that that the original pre-OMD 616 continuity does have a place where all the stories happened as written and at least one more universe where the Parkers are still a married couple.

Flashbacks in Mike Costa's Scarlet Spiders mini-series revealed that, yes, all stories would have happened if Peter and MJ had remained married, including Superior. However, in the book, the flashbacks are all to do with a reality where Ben Reily had lived and continued to be Spider-Man where as Peter never regained his powers. Costa said Peter and MJ remained in Portland raising their children, where as Ben was actually able to defeat Doc Ock pretty soundly in his version of Superior and resist his attempts to take over his body.

Any links to those sources? All the ones I've found are either just saying: "RYV is coming" or are upfront that we don't know that much. None of them have asked whether the original miniseries will be part of it or in a separate continuity or given any clues about this topic.

I was simply referring to things like the letter and the fact MJ has spider-powers.

Speaking of that, the latest bit of promotion for the book came with the cancellation notification e-mail from Marvel yesterday, here's what it read:


Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows:

With great power there must also come -- a great life! Peter Parker and Mary Jane are happily married and have a daughter, and to top it off, the whole family has Spider-Powers! Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows is by writer Gerry Conway and artist Ryan Stegman. Subscribe to read #1, web-slingers!

Conway's Carnage is now officially axed, so his readers really ought to be directed over to RYV instead of Mike Costa's Venom, which seems to be the case per the notification.

I would love know the behind-the-scenes progress for the series. Specifically, was it always intended to give RYV a follow-up, or was it written with the idea of being a standalone, but the popularity made them change their minds. After all, author Dan Slott did go on record that the story was an idea he pitched because he wanted to write it, not something that Marvel asked him to put together.

A user on scans_daily last year confirmed Slott had told him at conventions he had actually pitched several ideas for Peter and MJ to be married again in the main books, but was constantly turned down, and only got special permission for this because of the reality-warping nature of Secret Wars. Slott also said on CBR that Marvel were very aware a pro-marriage Spider-Man book would sell, so they were not surprised at all.

Interesting that they're actually suggesting that OMD was a bad thing for Spider-Man.

Marvel's Tom Brevoort compared it to "bad medicine that you have to take". They're not proud of OMD, but they still feel it was good for the overall book

It could be that Dan Slott just wants to touch on OMD in some fashion (he does seem to enjoy doing stuff like that) and that it has nothing to do with the RYV series?

Well, as I had said earlier, if he didn't want it to tie into RYV, he wouldn't have left in that bizzare deja vu easter egg in ASM this year.

WebLurker
09-11-2016, 01:23 PM
I haven't listened to that podcast, but I was aware about Kubert's daughter being the inspiration for Annie. I don't think it's a coincidence that Annie resembles the child Mephisto conjured up in OMD and then they use that as the basis for an out-of-continuity version. Given how Marvel openly admit they like to profit off their customers by intentionally triggering them, Marvel gave Annie that look specifically because it reminds people of what Peter and MJ sacrificed in OMD.

I actually assumed that Annie was designed to look like more like her mom, the way that Mayday takes after her dad, so I was actually surprised that they were trying to evoke the OMD kid.


D'oh, shows I'm still learning when it comes to a franchise I've followed for almost all of my existing life, I didn't know that.

I was surprised, too.


That's what sort of happened in 1998 just before the relaunch. Tom DeFalco's last issue of ASM prior to that dealt with a future where a group of archeologists were trying to work out what happened to Spider-Man. Various characters are brought up like Spidey 2099 and Mayday Parker, and they even debate which historians were right about his relationship with MJ, some saying she was killed, some say they divorced, and some said they lived happily together for the rest of their days. I read somewhere Marvel later claimed this story was out-of-continuity also. In this future, MJ becomes very important to the superhero community, and described as the "first lady".

Well, like a famous Vulcan once said, there are always possibilities, so maybe somewhere down the line, things will get back to normal again.

Flashbacks in Mike Costa's Scarlet Spiders mini-series revealed that, yes, all stories would have happened if Peter and MJ had remained married, including Superior. However, in the book, the flashbacks are all to do with a reality where Ben Reily had lived and continued to be Spider-Man where as Peter never regained his powers. Costa said Peter and MJ remained in Portland raising their children, where as Ben was actually able to defeat Doc Ock pretty soundly in his version of Superior and resist his attempts to take over his body.

Interesting. (Although, given parallel realities, I would believe that some things would change, depending on the differences that separated the timelines in question).


I was simply referring to things like the letter and the fact MJ has spider-powers.

I'm blanking on which letter you're referring to. I guess I had assumed that MJ got superpowers between the original RYV series and the new one, but I will concede that until we know for sure how that happened, anything's possible.

Speaking of that, the latest bit of promotion for the book came with the cancellation notification e-mail from Marvel yesterday, here's what it read:

Conway's Carnage is now officially axed, so his readers really ought to be directed over to RYV instead of Mike Costa's Venom, which seems to be the case per the notification.

Wonder if Carnage was always going to end when Conway took over RYV, or if other factors were involved.

A user on scans_daily last year confirmed Slott had told him at conventions he had actually pitched several ideas for Peter and MJ to be married again in the main books, but was constantly turned down, and only got special permission for this because of the reality-warping nature of Secret Wars.

Is there a link for those? I'd be curious to read for myself. I also sometimes travel around in many pro-pre-OMD Spider-Man fan circles who are convinced that Slott is strongly against the Peter/MJ marriage (and to be fair, I do think that his writing does make it seem like he is against the idea). I'd be really interested to see what the reaction is to those statements from those circles.

Slott also said on CBR that Marvel were very aware a pro-marriage Spider-Man book would sell, so they were not surprised at all.

Wonder why they don't want in the main books, then, if it tends to sell well?


Marvel's Tom Brevoort compared it to "bad medicine that you have to take". They're not proud of OMD, but they still feel it was good for the overall book

I strongly disagree with Brevoort's position, but opinions are subjective.

Well, as I had said earlier, if he didn't want it to tie into RYV, he wouldn't have left in that bizzare deja vu easter egg in ASM this year.

Assuming that there is a point, what could Slott be wanting to do with it?

ZariusTwo
09-11-2016, 01:47 PM
Is there a link for those?

There is on Comicvine I believe, but it requires looking through pages worth of one thread to find it.

I'd be curious to read for myself. I also sometimes travel around in many pro-pre-OMD Spider-Man fan circles who are convinced that Slott is strongly against the Peter/MJ marriage (and to be fair, I do think that his writing does make it seem like he is against the idea). I'd be really interested to see what the reaction is to those statements from those circles.

Slott's opinions on the marriage vary to the point you can't be sure if he is for or against it. Yeah his main book material indicates that he's against it, but he's working with a reality that's been altered by devil magic so you never know if what Peter and MJ do to each other is sincere or caused by Mephisto.

He said in one interview that the marriage is like Charlie Brown kicking the football, but in the actual RYV story he shows just how much more mature Peter is in the role of a hero and a father and there are no bitter consequences or moments of doubt for the couple (except for that one bit at the end where MJ wonders if Peter would have killed Regent if Annie had been harmed, but she's not mad at him or anything). He even ends the story with "this life doesn't mean the end of yours"

Slott said in a Comicvine video interview (you can find this one easily on Youtube), Peter and MJ without the marriage in the main books is "no fun" to write for because they can't go anywhere else...but in the same interview he says MJ is a limitless character when she is married to Peter.

Also, during Spider-Verse, he actually made Peter and MJ's son Benjy (from Mayday's MC2 universe) a vital part of a prophecy and an object of the Inheritor's quest, and he went out of his way to protect the Spider-Man Newspaper Strip (prior to this year's RYV, the only other ongoing series which uses the marriage) from the events of that story and later from the incursions of the Secret Wars event by having Inheritor Karn seal it off in a pocket dimension (which it's since broken free of)

So yeah, I think while Slott does have his own ideas about the marriage, he's slightly bi-polar on the subject. You sort of just have to accept that he's a notorious spinster who will say and do things that everyone wants to hear and read, so long as it gives him and the company a sizeable buzz.

ZariusTwo
09-11-2016, 02:57 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsF51s9UMAAku3S.jpg

MsMarvelDuckie
09-11-2016, 10:24 PM
Chiming in with my two cents here- the issue Zar mentioned with Peter and M-J having a future with two kids (the one in which Pete was visited by the One Above All) was WELL before the beginning of the OMD arc. I have the issue somewhere, and it was, if memory serves, tied to the Other storyline. Peter was having doubts about his life as Spidey after killing Morlun (again) and the point was to reassure him that his efforts and sacrifices were well worth the past cost- or something to that effect. Basically it was a sort of "Its a Wonderful Life" type of story.

As for Annie- yes she is indeed intended to be that second child- the one Mephisto so cruelly hinted would never be because Peter took his deal. The interesting thing with her is that you get a three-way namesake- Aunt May, Mayday(who would have been Aunt May's namesake to begin with) and Anna May Watson. May seems to be the traditional name for Parker women for some reason. And even in the aborted alternate future from the "Happy Birthday" arc in which Peter had achance to prevent his past self from ever being bitten by the fateful arachnid, their son was named Ben. So there have been several alternate timelines with future kids now- though that one ended badly, with Peter killed by a SWAT team for being a fugitive after accidentally killing a crook.

WebLurker
09-11-2016, 11:06 PM
There is on Comicvine I believe, but it requires looking through pages worth of one thread to find it.

Remember what the name of the thread was? (Some day when I'm in the need of down time, I could see myself taking the trouble to hunt it down.)


Slott's opinions on the marriage vary to the point you can't be sure if he is for or against it. Yeah his main book material indicates that he's against it, but he's working with a reality that's been altered by devil magic so you never know if what Peter and MJ do to each other is sincere or caused by Mephisto.

For reference, is the idea that the post-OMD Peter and MJ being under demonic influence from the comics themselves, or a reader's theory?

He said in one interview that the marriage is like Charlie Brown kicking the football, but in the actual RYV story he shows just how much more mature Peter is in the role of a hero and a father and there are no bitter consequences or moments of doubt for the couple (except for that one bit at the end where MJ wonders if Peter would have killed Regent if Annie had been harmed, but she's not mad at him or anything). He even ends the story with "this life doesn't mean the end of yours"

Slott said in a Comicvine video interview (you can find this one easily on Youtube), Peter and MJ without the marriage in the main books is "no fun" to write for because they can't go anywhere else...but in the same interview he says MJ is a limitless character when she is married to Peter.

Also, during Spider-Verse, he actually made Peter and MJ's son Benjy (from Mayday's MC2 universe) a vital part of a prophecy and an object of the Inheritor's quest, and he went out of his way to protect the Spider-Man Newspaper Strip (prior to this year's RYV, the only other ongoing series which uses the marriage) from the events of that story and later from the incursions of the Secret Wars event by having Inheritor Karn seal it off in a pocket dimension (which it's since broken free of)

Interesting. (The newspaper comic, I suppose he would've needed to have left alone anyways, since that's not his story to tell.)


So yeah, I think while Slott does have his own ideas about the marriage, he's slightly bi-polar on the subject. You sort of just have to accept that he's a notorious spinster who will say and do things that everyone wants to hear and read, so long as it gives him and the company a sizeable buzz.

Okay.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsF51s9UMAAku3S.jpg

Cool. Like that.

Chiming in with my two cents here- the issue Zar mentioned with Peter and M-J having a future with two kids (the one in which Pete was visited by the One Above All) was WELL before the beginning of the OMD arc. I have the issue somewhere, and it was, if memory serves, tied to the Other storyline. Peter was having doubts about his life as Spidey after killing Morlun (again) and the point was to reassure him that his efforts and sacrifices were well worth the past cost- or something to that effect. Basically it was a sort of "Its a Wonderful Life" type of story.

I kind of recall it being a "Back in Black" thing (never read it myself, just going off of what I've heard), which was the the last stuff before OMD. (I recall that that ending scene and the "To Have and to Hold" comic are/were among the favored arguments against OMD.

As for Annie- yes she is indeed intended to be that second child- the one Mephisto so cruelly hinted would never be because Peter took his deal.

Then why does she seem to be born years before the OMD timeframe, probably even before Mayday would've born?

The interesting thing with her is that you get a three-way namesake- Aunt May, Mayday(who would have been Aunt May's namesake to begin with) and Anna May Watson. May seems to be the traditional name for Parker women for some reason. And even in the aborted alternate future from the "Happy Birthday" arc in which Peter had achance to prevent his past self from ever being bitten by the fateful arachnid, their son was named Ben. So there have been several alternate timelines with future kids now- though that one ended badly, with Peter killed by a SWAT team for being a fugitive after accidentally killing a crook.

Very interesting.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-12-2016, 04:58 AM
I don't knnow the specifics of how the timeline was changed post OMD after the beginning of the Spider-Island arc, but this is one of the reasons the entire BND timeline simply does not work- it created too many snarls and ret-cons for the "new" timeline to ever make any sense. Annie's entire existence seems to hinge on that scene where Mephisto taunted them with the "now she will never be born" jab. Other than that, I can't see any ties between her and the pre-OMD timeframe. Bur then there have been a number of "branching" realities created by the fiasco so almost anything is possible, I suppose. Mayday WAS the "official" firstborn child, and her death (or even birth) is one of the biggest snarls in the BND timeline. They basically erased her from ever having existed at all, from what I've seen.

ZariusTwo
09-12-2016, 05:53 AM
For reference, is the idea that the post-OMD Peter and MJ being under demonic influence from the comics themselves, or a reader's theory?

It's sort of a theory that has had canonical solidification in snippets from interviews and the main books. Based off interviews with JMS about his meetings with Quesada (the infamous "it's magic, we don't have to explain it" comes from them) what MJ says to Peter before the deal takes effect in OMD ("No matter what he does to us, we'll find a way to be together"), and recent stuff in Spider-Man/Deadpool (Peter no longer remembers Mephisto, but Mephisto taunts that he is responsible for the ultimate fall)

And I can verify the "Book of Peter", the story where Peter meets the One-Above-All and is assured of his future with MJ and their kids, takes place during Civil War and prior to OMD.

WebLurker
09-12-2016, 10:52 AM
I don't knnow the specifics of how the timeline was changed post OMD after the beginning of the Spider-Island arc, but this is one of the reasons the entire BND timeline simply does not work- it created too many snarls and ret-cons for the "new" timeline to ever make any sense.

I'll take your word for it.

Annie's entire existence seems to hinge on that scene where Mephisto taunted them with the "now she will never be born" jab. Other than that, I can't see any ties between her and the pre-OMD timeframe.

I guess the way I saw it was that one of the differences between the RYV timeline and the 616 version (let's just focus on the pre-OMD versio, however and wherever that exists "now"), is that in the former, Peter and MJ conceived a child earlier than the did otherwise. In other words, Annie's birth is one of the differences, along with Captain America's new uniform and the like.

Bur then there have been a number of "branching" realities created by the fiasco so almost anything is possible, I suppose. Mayday WAS the "official" firstborn child, and her death (or even birth) is one of the biggest snarls in the BND timeline. They basically erased her from ever having existed at all, from what I've seen.

As I've said before, I thought the comic branched off between the Parker/Watson marriage and the '90s Clone Saga. While I'm not dogmatic about that (since it could just be a universe that "always" stood alone, a la the Ultimate universe or the Raimi/Webb/MCU movies), if I'm right, then the RYV Parkers were already raising their iteration of the family while OMD was doing whatever it did in 616.

It's sort of a theory that has had canonical solidification in snippets from interviews and the main books. Based off interviews with JMS about his meetings with Quesada (the infamous "it's magic, we don't have to explain it" comes from them) what MJ says to Peter before the deal takes effect in OMD ("No matter what he does to us, we'll find a way to be together"), and recent stuff in Spider-Man/Deadpool (Peter no longer remembers Mephisto, but Mephisto taunts that he is responsible for the ultimate fall)

Okay.

And I can verify the "Book of Peter", the story where Peter meets the One-Above-All and is assured of his future with MJ and their kids, takes place during Civil War and prior to OMD.

Okay.

Since Marvel apparently declared the scene to be in a different universe, I guess I'm not sure if we can still apply it to the post-OMD 616 universe (on one had I'd like to, but on the other hand, I think that 616 has taken too much damage to be salvaged and that the married Spider-Man iteration should have an alternative home.

On the other hand, the parallel universe label does mean that there's a place where the ASM Spider-Man comics from the beginning to 2007 exists completely intact and no OMD, so that's a win, IMHO.

ZariusTwo
09-12-2016, 11:26 AM
On the other hand, the parallel universe label does mean that there's a place where the ASM Spider-Man comics from the beginning to 2007 exists completely intact and no OMD, so that's a win, IMHO.

Much the same as a universe where everything from the begining to 2010 exists for the Spider-Girl comic with no Spider-Verse affecting Mayday or her family there (as hinted in one of the supporting stories by Spider-Girl's creators during that story)

I am hoping the RYV we see this year is from a universe which has a lot of the history intact, which has been the whole point of our discussions lately.

WebLurker
09-12-2016, 08:00 PM
Much the same as a universe where everything from the begining to 2010 exists for the Spider-Girl comic with no Spider-Verse affecting Mayday or her family there (as hinted in one of the supporting stories by Spider-Girl's creators during that story)

Yeah, pretty much. Might be a little anal of me, but its about the only way I can enjoy reading any 616 materials, so I'll take it. (Now, it only they'd do the same thing for Ultimate Spider-Man...)

I am hoping the RYV we see this year is from a universe which has a lot of the history intact, which has been the whole point of our discussions lately.

Any particular stuff you'd like ported over? (As long as the characterizations are intact, I'm actually not too fussy about the backgrounds or what stories fit on the same timeline. In fact, I don't really care whether RYV the series is in continuity with the Secret Wars RYV or not.)

MsMarvelDuckie
09-12-2016, 10:23 PM
Mayday's birth/death occurred shortly after the Clone Saga. AFAIK, Annie SHOULD have been born sometime after the Civil War/Back in Black timeframe, as M-J was showing the first signs of being pregnant during Back in Black, specifically a scene after Aunt May was shot, while Peter and M-J were in hiding due to both Kingpin's hit going out and being considered a fugitive after he switched sides during Civil War. (He later went to the Raft to visit Fisk in prison and threatened to actually break his "no-kill" rule on him personally if Aunt May died because of the assassination attempt. It was one of Spidey's most brutal moments ever.) In the scene (I think it was at the hospital but it could have been their hotel room- I don't recall exactly which) M-J is in the bathroom throwing up while Peter mentions something about hot dogs. This seems to make her even sicker..... The implication was that she was having a bout of morning sickness, so Annie clearly should have been born sometime after that. Probably during the Secret Invasion if their marriage had remained intact.

WebLurker
09-12-2016, 11:11 PM
Why does Annie need to be the same character as that unborn kid from the OMD future that never came to pass? In the original RYV comic, at the time when Annie was an infant, it's established that Spider-Man is not very well-known to the superhero community, his secret identity is not known to any of his fellow superheroes, and he's never been an Avenger, all things that are not true during "Back in Black," but are very true in the pre-Clone Saga era.

ZariusTwo
09-13-2016, 09:33 AM
There's a theory I have that ties in to MJ's offer to Mephisto to put Peter's life "back the way it was", and that she would offer him something in return.

Now, in OMIT, MJ's offer boils down to "you will leave him alone" and Mephisto agreeing to that, saying this "did'nt happen", which is entirely Quesada's stupid attempt at making sure everything tied together without the marriage, and it's something that Alonzo has been ignoring since Mephisto hasn't been leaving Peter alone per the events of Spider-Man/Deadpool (and he even interfered in Flash's life during his stint as Venom).

The feeling I'm getting, judging from the clues left behind in "Power Play", is that the RYV Peter and MJ are in fact going to be revealed as the real ones, that right after they "vanished" at the end of OMD they were transported to a different reality and had their memories altered, but MJ was still pregnant with Annie so she still gave birth to her a few months later. MJ's offer to Mephisto was to put Peter's life back the way it was, which meant no Avenger membership, Spider-Man being an outsider again, a lot of other things.

The twist though is in RYV's world, Aunt May dies, and Peter is forced to go back on his no-kill code to defeat Venom, so there was a karmic twist to things. Peter and MJ's lives are only normal to a point, and then fate forces them to adjust to new dangers and status quoes.

616 Peter and MJ may eventually be revealed as constructs of Mephisto who only exist because they are mystically tethered to that "small part of their souls" that remember the original timeline in 616...but in reality, what if the RYV Parkers are the manifestation of that small portion? And that ultimately both halfs may have to be "merged" eventually?

As for what I'd like ported over...certainly Norman Osborn back in prominence as being in charge of SHIELD/HAMMER with the Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers in his back pocket. Also, Harry and Liz as a couple again.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-13-2016, 01:27 PM
Why does Annie need to be the same character as that unborn kid from the OMD future that never came to pass? In the original RYV comic, at the time when Annie was an infant, it's established that Spider-Man is not very well-known to the superhero community, his secret identity is not known to any of his fellow superheroes, and he's never been an Avenger, all things that are not true during "Back in Black," but are very true in the pre-Clone Saga era.

Even that doesn't really fit though. He WAS still quite well-known to other heroes because by that point he hafld been interacting with many of them pretty often. Also the only ones who knew his identity were primarily Daredevil, Wolverine, and the New Avengers once he joined them. No one else did except Green Goblin and Venom. Everyone else who knew didn't find out until he came out at the beginning of Civil War.

This is not super well-known outside the (defunct) Marvel forums at the time, but JMS actually wrote TWO endings for OMD. The other one had Peter and M-J reject Mephisto's deal, and Annie would have subsequently been born in that version. Unfortunately Quesada disallowed that ending and that is one of the biggest reasons JMS left the book immediately after the OMD arc. So yes, she WAS intended to be that same child originally. However as I mentioned before, the retcons (and there are MANY) created by OMD/BND has caused a great deal of confusion and stories that no longer match up. More so with all the universe-merging and dissolving that has gone on due to the Regent storyline. We now have at least three "versions" of the main 616 Spidey history that diverge in important ways, all because of that original snafu of the deal with Mephisto. As I recall, the scuttlebutt around the Marvel site at that time was that M-J's deal with him had something to do with the child she was carrying, and involved a "backdoor" reset to allow them to have their life together back. That was hinted at by at least one staff member then and was also hinted by JMS himself at one point. He was VERY pissed at having been told to write that marriage-ending plot after he had spent a good part of his run making it important and interesting again. He felt it was a slap in the face to be told that none of it was going to matter going foreward.

WebLurker
09-13-2016, 02:21 PM
There's a theory I have that ties in to MJ's offer to Mephisto to put Peter's life "back the way it was", and that she would offer him something in return.

Now, in OMIT, MJ's offer boils down to "you will leave him alone" and Mephisto agreeing to that, saying this "did'nt happen", which is entirely Quesada's stupid attempt at making sure everything tied together without the marriage, and it's something that Alonzo has been ignoring since Mephisto hasn't been leaving Peter alone per the events of Spider-Man/Deadpool (and he even interfered in Flash's life during his stint as Venom).

The feeling I'm getting, judging from the clues left behind in "Power Play", is that the RYV Peter and MJ are in fact going to be revealed as the real ones, that right after they "vanished" at the end of OMD they were transported to a different reality and had their memories altered, but MJ was still pregnant with Annie so she still gave birth to her a few months later. MJ's offer to Mephisto was to put Peter's life back the way it was, which meant no Avenger membership, Spider-Man being an outsider again, a lot of other things.

The twist though is in RYV's world, Aunt May dies, and Peter is forced to go back on his no-kill code to defeat Venom, so there was a karmic twist to things. Peter and MJ's lives are only normal to a point, and then fate forces them to adjust to new dangers and status quoes.

616 Peter and MJ may eventually be revealed as constructs of Mephisto who only exist because they are mystically tethered to that "small part of their souls" that remember the original timeline in 616...but in reality, what if the RYV Parkers are the manifestation of that small portion? And that ultimately both halfs may have to be "merged" eventually?

In all honesty, I think I'd like the two versions to remain separate. I'm not sure a merging would work out well for marriage fans, I prefer the idea of RYV being its own iteration of the franchise rather than a piece to a bigger puzzle that I'm not that interested in (post-OMD 616 comics have nothing of value to me), and I kind of think that 616 is damaged beyond repair.

(My gateways to the franchise were the original Raimi movies and the pre-Miles Morales Ultimate comics, so I will concede that I'm not too strongly attached to 616 as lifelong readers, being that it was never "my" version. So, it was more of "OMD ruined a parallel universe version of my favorite comci book character" -- albeit one that I would've liked to have read without the OMD scars -- instead of "OMD ruined my favorite comic book character." I do like the pre-OMD stuff I've seen that accurately reflects the aforementioned materials, though.)

If Marvel was going to bring the RYV Parkers into 616 in some fashion, I'd rather it go like what DC did for the Kents; have them living their own lives elsewhere in the world, maybe even kill of the OMD 616 versions of Peter and MJ and let the RYV Parkers take over as the main versions of the characters.

As for what I'd like ported over...certainly Norman Osborn back in prominence as being in charge of SHIELD/HAMMER with the Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers in his back pocket. Also, Harry and Liz as a couple again.

It would be interesting to know what Norman Osborn was up to during Regent's reign in RYV (assuming that he appears in the new series, that the new series is in continuity with the original miniseries, and that Osborn cheated death after "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" like he did in 616).

Harry and Liz Allen were a couple? I don't think I've seen that version before. I know that Liz was in love with Peter in the Spectacular Spider-Man, which had Harry interested in Gwen Stacy. In the Raimi movies, Harry had feeling for Mary Jane (who, of course, fell in love with Peter). The Ultimate comics had Harry and Mary Jane dating briefly before the series began, although it's a little unclear what Harry thought when Mary Jane (like in the movies) fell hard for Peter.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-13-2016, 02:38 PM
Harry and Liz were actually married for a time but had separated in part because of his drug issues. This was after the college years and the Peter/Gwen/M-J triangle was resolved (ie Gwen's death). They even had a son together if memory serves.

ZariusTwo
09-13-2016, 03:20 PM
Harry and Liz stayed together until Harry died in the 1990s. He remained dead for well over a decade.

After OMD, his death was retconned and it was revealed he had actually survived and was put into hiding by Norman Osborn and Mysterio. Harry married a couple of more times and then returned to New York where he had another child with the villain known as Menace. He and Liz still get along, even if Harry works for Peter and Liz is constantly trying to sabotage Parker Industries.

She's kind of turned into a bit of a b*tch sadly.

In MC2, Harry and Liz's son Normie predictably became the next Green Goblin, and Liz died from an illness shortly after Mayday first became Spider-Girl (Liz had remarried by this point to her then-90s love interest Foggy Nelson)

Harry's revival is another one of those things that makes no sense in the context of OMD, as Norman's whole motivation for coming back twenty years ago was that he was AVENGING HARRY'S DEATH. It's also his whole motivation for killing/kidnapping Mayday

Dan Slott tried to sweep this under the rug by having Mysterio, I kid you not, advise Norman to "method act" and mentally commit to the notion Harry was dead so he'd sound convincing to anyone he brought it up to.

It would be interesting to know what Norman Osborn was up to during Regent's reign in RYV (assuming that he appears in the new series, that the new series is in continuity with the original miniseries, and that Osborn cheated death after "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" like he did in 616).


I reckon they could save Norman perhaps for a closing arc in the series, but I do wonder just where he was. Hobgoblin showed up in the original mini-series, and Peter mentioned Harry in the Spider-Verse prelude to RYV. I'm sure we'll get some version of the Goblin in the series, but it's strange to think Norman hasn't struck out at Annie given how long it's been since she was born in the new series....even Venom struck hard at the Parkers when Annie was an infant.

In MC2 (where Norman also cheated death) Peter was still Spider-Man for two more years after Mayday was recovered from Osborn's grasp by Kaine and Norman did'nt attack the Parkers then, but it was explained later Norman had successfully cloned Mayday and was planning to mess with Peter's head later in life by making him think he'd been raising a copy of his daughter and that the clone (which was a living symbiote weapon called Mayhem) would ultimately destroy him. Norman died for real before he could see this plan through.

The clone ended up redeeming herself and briefly became Mayday's partner fighting crime until her aggressive tendencies got the better of her and she started killing, and it led to her sacrificing herself to save Mayday and avert a bad future.

If Marvel was going to bring the RYV Parkers into 616 in some fashion, I'd rather it go like what DC did for the Kents; have them living their own lives elsewhere in the world, maybe even kill of the OMD 616 versions of Peter and MJ and let the RYV Parkers take over as the main versions of the characters..

The thing about the Kents is it's being heavily implied they are the original versions anyway, which is why I brought up that Marvel ought to try a similar trick with the RYV versions so we could start repairing the damage to 616, as the 616 versions act nothing like Peter and MJ. Revealing them as fakes or the worst aspects of their personalities made flesh would go a long way to at least acknowledge there's a problem

I doubt Marvel will go that route of course, but I think it's the best option to win back the crowd.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-13-2016, 06:29 PM
Oh if ONLY I was writing for the Spidey book- you WOULD see that come to pass. It's pretty close to what I would do to fix it. Which would also involve Peter punching out Mephisto and doing to him what he almost did to Fisk.....

WebLurker
09-14-2016, 12:39 AM
Harry and Liz were actually married for a time but had separated in part because of his drug issues. This was after the college years and the Peter/Gwen/M-J triangle was resolved (ie Gwen's death). They even had a son together if memory serves.

Harry and Liz stayed together until Harry died in the 1990s. He remained dead for well over a decade.

After OMD, his death was retconned and it was revealed he had actually survived and was put into hiding by Norman Osborn and Mysterio. Harry married a couple of more times and then returned to New York where he had another child with the villain known as Menace. He and Liz still get along, even if Harry works for Peter and Liz is constantly trying to sabotage Parker Industries.

She's kind of turned into a bit of a b*tch sadly.

In MC2, Harry and Liz's son Normie predictably became the next Green Goblin, and Liz died from an illness shortly after Mayday first became Spider-Girl (Liz had remarried by this point to her then-90s love interest Foggy Nelson)

Interesting. Wonder why the adaptions never did much, if anything, with Harry and Liz?

Harry's revival is another one of those things that makes no sense in the context of OMD, as Norman's whole motivation for coming back twenty years ago was that he was AVENGING HARRY'S DEATH. It's also his whole motivation for killing/kidnapping Mayday

Dan Slott tried to sweep this under the rug by having Mysterio, I kid you not, advise Norman to "method act" and mentally commit to the notion Harry was dead so he'd sound convincing to anyone he brought it up to.

Why bring Harry back in the first place, though?


I reckon they could save Norman perhaps for a closing arc in the series, but I do wonder just where he was.

Assuming he un-died like he did in the original comics, I suppose he was either in hiding himself, or had been re-killed or captured and put in a tank by Regent.

Hobgoblin showed up in the original mini-series, and Peter mentioned Harry in the Spider-Verse prelude to RYV.

I never really understood why Hobgoblin was on Regent's team. As I understood it, Regent captured heroes and villains alike with superpowers and put them in his tanks, no exceptions. All his other minions are tech users only, but Hobgoblin has superpowers, since the idea is that the people who use that identity used Green Goblin's performance enhancer/globulan green/OZ/whatever. So, why wasn't Hobgoblin in a tank?

I'm sure we'll get some version of the Goblin in the series, but it's strange to think Norman hasn't struck out at Annie given how long it's been since she was born in the new series....even Venom struck hard at the Parkers when Annie was an infant.

We'll see. It'll be interesting to see if RYV the series brings back mostly surviving old characters, or if we'll be getting a lot of new ones instead. I do have to admit that, because of the first RVY story, I'm kind of more intrigued by the idea of the RYV Parkers needing to deal with a surviving Venom symbiote than yet another Spider-Man/Green Goblin fight.

Maybe Goby didn't have a chance to target Annie (either deciding that it was better to stay hidden from Regent or Regent ended him first)? That's all assuming that he knew in the first place that the Parkers had a child and/or hadn't forgotten who Spider-Man really was (as I understand happens sometimes).



The thing about the Kents is it's being heavily implied they are the original versions anyway, which is why I brought up that Marvel ought to try a similar trick with the RYV versions so we could start repairing the damage to 616, as the 616 versions act nothing like Peter and MJ. Revealing them as fakes or the worst aspects of their personalities made flesh would go a long way to at least acknowledge there's a problem

Did not know that. Although, if the original Spider-Man comic is canon in both 616 and RYV, I could see the argument that RYV Spider-Man has as much claim to being the original version as the 616 one does, esp. if RYV branches off from the original timeline long before OMD did.

I doubt Marvel will go that route of course, but I think it's the best option to win back the crowd.

What about the fans who like the current comics, or consider the post-OMD Spider-Man to be "their" version of the mythos?

Oh if ONLY I was writing for the Spidey book- you WOULD see that come to pass. It's pretty close to what I would do to fix it. Which would also involve Peter punching out Mephisto and doing to him what he almost did to Fisk.....

I'd read that. :tgrin:

ZariusTwo
09-14-2016, 04:10 AM
What about the fans who like the current comics, or consider the post-OMD Spider-Man to be "their" version of the mythos?


The post-OMD fans would probably react the same way New 52 Superman fans are currently...but keep in mind the reaction to the loss of N52 Superman is easier to put up with because he was only around for five years, where as post-OMD Spidey has been around for almost a decade.

What about the fans who liked everything for the 20 years the marriage was a part of the regular books? If Marvel threw their hands up and decreed we no longer mattered, how safe are THOSE fans?

Hell, what about fans during the Clone Saga? Imagine being told back then the Peter you followed most of your life was a clone? Marvel were serious at the time about making Ben Reily the real deal and it almost killed the book.

OMD almost killed the book too...in fact, Slott's current run is killing the book, it's had embarrassing placements in the top twenty lately, and the only reason it was number one a couple of weeks ago was because DC took a break.

We got another pic from Stegman btw

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsQ7D0aUAAEAe3S.jpg

WebLurker
09-14-2016, 12:17 PM
The post-OMD fans would probably react the same way New 52 Superman fans are currently...but keep in mind the reaction to the loss of N52 Superman is easier to put up with because he was only around for five years, where as post-OMD Spidey has been around for almost a decade.

How did New 52 Superman fans react (I don't track DC that much)?

What about the fans who liked everything for the 20 years the marriage was a part of the regular books? If Marvel threw their hands up and decreed we no longer mattered, how safe are THOSE fans?

Hell, what about fans during the Clone Saga? Imagine being told back then the Peter you followed most of your life was a clone? Marvel were serious at the time about making Ben Reily the real deal and it almost killed the book.

I don't really know what the best answer is. I'm just saying that there are readers who'll be in the same boat as we are if OMD Spider-Man gets takes out of the equation. Because of that, I wonder if creating output targeted to both audiences is the best call over changing one to suite different audiences, since then the interests of one faction aren't being sacrificed for the other.

OMD almost killed the book too...in fact, Slott's current run is killing the book, it's had embarrassing placements in the top twenty lately, and the only reason it was number one a couple of weeks ago was because DC took a break.

Isn't top twenty pretty good in and of itself? (I don't know how comic sales really work that well.) Also thought that the official statement is that Slott's Spider-Man is doing good business. Also, if Slott was not turning in a selling product, wouldn't he have been canned already? Even if Marvel likes his stuff, they are first and foremost a business. (I mean, I'm pretty sure that this RYV continuation is being made largely because of the original one's sales. If RYV Vol. 1 had bombed, I'm doubt we'd be getting a sequel.)

We got another pic from Stegman btw

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsQ7D0aUAAEAe3S.jpg

Stegman does nice work.

ZariusTwo
09-14-2016, 12:42 PM
How did New 52 Superman fans react (I don't track DC that much)?

It's not gone well. A lot of them have made ageist comments towards Dan Jurgens (writer of Lois and Clark as well as Action Comics), and some have said pretty unsavoury things about the concept of the superkid Jon. It's even spilled over into hatred for the new Superwoman title because DC bait and switched the audience with promises of a N52 Lois-led book only to kill her off and replace her with Lana in the debut issue.

These people are pretty much a minority group though, given not many people cared about N52 Superman to begin with. The Superman books have been outselling the Spider-Man books by a considerable margin, always making the top ten.

I don't really know what the best answer is. I'm just saying that there are readers who'll be in the same boat as we are if OMD Spider-Man gets takes out of the equation. Because of that, I wonder if creating output targeted to both audiences is the best call over changing one to suite different audiences, since then the interests of one faction aren't being sacrificed for the other.

I reckon they could just make Parker Industries it's own alternate world and still go with RYV being the main one. Alternate Spider-Man books always sell big. Spider-Girl was an alternate book (though it had more legit claim as a natural continuation than anything in 616 does presently) and went twelve years...and Peter was barely Spider-Man in that!


Isn't top twenty pretty good in and of itself? (I don't know how comic sales really work that well.) Also thought that the official statement is that Slott's Spider-Man is doing good business. Also, if Slott was not turning in a selling product, wouldn't he have been canned already? Even if Marvel likes his stuff, they are first and foremost a business.

I just remembered ASM wasn't even in the top twenty in August, so yeah, there's that also.

I actually think the decision to put RYV forward has everything to do with how badly Slott's run is doing, not just because the original series was a success (and keep in mind, back when the first RYV series came out, it was pretty much the main Spider-Man book while the 616 volume took a summer break before relaunching). Marvel do not disclose digital sales either, but I've heard some rumblings about that too. ASM is in trouble, and a "stealth pilot" like RYV is required to see if the audience for the marriage can probably save it down the line.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-14-2016, 02:37 PM
Considering how many readers jumped ship after it was axed Id say it's a good bet. I was right in the middle of the whole fiasco, and trust me, it WASN'T pretty. Those of us who were Modding those forums were overwhelmed by the massive amount of posts that got extremely vitriolic. If you guys think THIS place gets bad, you should have seen the height of the OMD rebellion. It was nasty. Fans went so far as to threaten hunting down Quesada (I really don't blame them) burn copies of the comic, riot, march on Marvel, etc.... I can't even remember how many forum members either left orvwere banned, butvit was in the dozens on both counts. There was so much anger at the time that when the boards crashed for several days shortly after the BND reboot, many members simply never came back once they were back up. I still had Mod status about two years later even after having barely posted for over a year (they changed the format and that killed the forums entirely) but it hardly mattered because they were nearly dead by that point. OMD did FAR more damage to Marvel than just one book. It killed a lot of the trust people had in the company, and few of tbe later decisions from the editorial staff helped matters.

ZariusTwo
09-15-2016, 04:43 AM
I was in the trenches also. Dan Slott and Steven Wacker ended up joining the CrawlSpace forums for a while when BND started to take questions and hype up the project, only to be met with a slew of angry fans who wouldn't stop needling them about OMD. Neither took it well at all and Slott slowly transformed into the public relations nightmare he continues to be on forums today.

Slott requested his membership on the forum be terminated (which it was), and he remained a fixture on CBR's threads, where he, I and others who agreed with me exchanged "pleasantries" from time to time.

Wacker hung around the crawl space and actually started TROLLING people, he would up causing so much trouble for himself that the Crawl Space mods actually banned him. It was embarrassing.

More from RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsWEpyuWEAAWvsf.jpg

WebLurker
09-15-2016, 01:07 PM
It's not gone well. A lot of them have made ageist comments towards Dan Jurgens (writer of Lois and Clark as well as Action Comics), and some have said pretty unsavoury things about the concept of the superkid Jon. It's even spilled over into hatred for the new Superwoman title because DC bait and switched the audience with promises of a N52 Lois-led book only to kill her off and replace her with Lana in the debut issue.

Weird. For some reason, I kind of thought that the original Lois and Clark miniseries was well-received. I wouldn't blame anyone for being annoyed by the Superwoman surprise, though. I wonder if DC should've been upfront that Lana was going to be the star?

Course, with both N52 Superman and Lois Lane buying the farm (probably just to allow the older versions of the characters to replace them), I can understand that N52 Superman fans may be seeing DC Rebirth the way we see OMD.

These people are pretty much a minority group though, given not many people cared about N52 Superman to begin with.

Kind of interesting that comic book companies like to do major overhauls and reinventions, given that the readers who buy the stuff rarely seem to like them.

The Superman books have been outselling the Spider-Man books by a considerable margin, always making the top ten.

For reference, are we talking about the flagship Superman series or the franchise in general, and from how far back are we going back to track better sales?

I reckon they could just make Parker Industries it's own alternate world and still go with RYV being the main one.

When you say "RYV being the main one," are you suggesting that the RYV Parkers get ported over to 616, like DC is doing with Superman, or something else, like the RYV series just becomes the flagship Spidey comic, even if it stays in the RYV universe?

Alternate Spider-Man books always sell big. Spider-Girl was an alternate book (though it had more legit claim as a natural continuation than anything in 616 does presently) and went twelve years...and Peter was barely Spider-Man in that!

They do sell better? For some reason, I was under the impression that Spider-Girl's (and Ultimate Spider-Man's) success and long runs were exceptions, and that they usually didn't do as well as the main titles.


I just remembered ASM wasn't even in the top twenty in August, so yeah, there's that also.

Is that normal lately, or is that kind of a sudden jump?

I actually think the decision to put RYV forward has everything to do with how badly Slott's run is doing, not just because the original series was a success (and keep in mind, back when the first RYV series came out, it was pretty much the main Spider-Man book while the 616 volume took a summer break before relaunching).

Maybe. It will be interesting to see if RYV can hold its own when it's not the only game in town. If it hopefully sells well, I'd really like to hear what the OMD defenders have to say, given that good vs. poor sales is a favored argument of theirs.)

Marvel do not disclose digital sales either, but I've heard some rumblings about that too. ASM is in trouble, and a "stealth pilot" like RYV is required to see if the audience for the marriage can probably save it down the line.

Since Marvel has been so resistant to the idea of a married Spider-Man and jumped through so many hoops to be rid of it, wouldn't they be more likely to try and find a solution that fits within the single Spider-Man setting?

Considering how many readers jumped ship after it was axed Id say it's a good bet. I was right in the middle of the whole fiasco, and trust me, it WASN'T pretty. Those of us who were Modding those forums were overwhelmed by the massive amount of posts that got extremely vitriolic. If you guys think THIS place gets bad, you should have seen the height of the OMD rebellion. It was nasty. Fans went so far as to threaten hunting down Quesada (I really don't blame them) burn copies of the comic, riot, march on Marvel, etc.... I can't even remember how many forum members either left orvwere banned, butvit was in the dozens on both counts. There was so much anger at the time that when the boards crashed for several days shortly after the BND reboot, many members simply never came back once they were back up. I still had Mod status about two years later even after having barely posted for over a year (they changed the format and that killed the forums entirely) but it hardly mattered because they were nearly dead by that point. OMD did FAR more damage to Marvel than just one book. It killed a lot of the trust people had in the company, and few of tbe later decisions from the editorial staff helped matters.

I was in the trenches also. Dan Slott and Steven Wacker ended up joining the CrawlSpace forums for a while when BND started to take questions and hype up the project, only to be met with a slew of angry fans who wouldn't stop needling them about OMD. Neither took it well at all and Slott slowly transformed into the public relations nightmare he continues to be on forums today.

Slott requested his membership on the forum be terminated (which it was), and he remained a fixture on CBR's threads, where he, I and others who agreed with me exchanged "pleasantries" from time to time.

Wacker hung around the crawl space and actually started TROLLING people, he would up causing so much trouble for himself that the Crawl Space mods actually banned him. It was embarrassing.

I only learned about OMD after the fact, so I kind of missed out of the initial backlash. I still don't really understand the point of the reboot (but, to be fair, I was introduced to Spider-Man in the early 2000s through the movies, so, from my perspective, Peter and MJ being a couple -- married or otherwise -- is hardwired into the mythos and unmovable as the origin story itself and was/is one of the better elements of the franchise).

I find it really ironic that the most popular Spider-Man iterations seem to be the ones that actually focus on that relationship. RYV 1 got praise from everyone, including a lot of post-OMD fans. Ultimate Spider-Man (which granted, could only show Peter and MJ as high school sweethearts, albeit showing that they were going to be partners for the rest of their lives, confirmed in their final scene), was a hit throughout its entire run. Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane and Spider-Girl were critical successes. The marriage/relationship doesn't really seem to be the hobble we've been told it was.

I don't think Slott is the best writer for the franchise and tends to cyberbully people, but I do think that some fans cross the line when interacting with him and treat him in ways no one deserves. At worst, Slott's a mediocre Spider-Man writer in a dark era for the comic who's immature online.

ZariusTwo
09-15-2016, 03:02 PM
For reference, are we talking about the flagship Superman series or the franchise in general, and from how far back are we going back to track better sales?

I'm probably being over-enthusiastic, but ever since Rebirth began in the early summer, both Action Comics and Superman have been doing very well in the top ten and interest has increased in old 90s back-issues featuring that older Clark Kent.

When you say "RYV being the main one," are you suggesting that the RYV Parkers get ported over to 616, like DC is doing with Superman, or something else, like the RYV series just becomes the flagship Spidey comic, even if it stays in the RYV universe?

Porting over the RYV Parkers would be my preferred endgame, but I was wondering if, assuming it does not follow the continuity of the original series, that RYV can be seen as a mirror opposite to 616, with a similar history only the Parkers remained married.

I sort of see RYV as being potentially this decade's equivalent of what MC2 was to 616. MC2 had the same history as 616 up to a specific point in the 90s, then it did it's own thing. 616 has occasionally borrowed elements from MC2 since then, and I don't just mean utlizing a version of Mayday for Spider-Verse.

They do sell better? For some reason, I was under the impression that Spider-Girl's (and Ultimate Spider-Man's) success and long runs were exceptions, and that they usually didn't do as well as the main titles.

I was mainly pointing towards those very titles you mentioned since they were the long-runners and focused on elements that fans enjoyed. One was a feel good natural continuation of the original story where Peter reached the next step of his character evolution, and another was the realisation of the long-desired "eternal high schooler that Stan and Steve famously opted to drop in the original run of ASM 33 issues in, which Stan has often been on record as saying he regretted.

Maybe. It will be interesting to see if RYV can hold its own when it's not the only game in town. If it hopefully sells well, I'd really like to hear what the OMD defenders have to say, given that good vs. poor sales is a favored argument of theirs.)

I expect a lot of spinning to be done in regards to sales, much like how the N52 fans try to spin the positive sales numbers for Rebirth as a string of diminishing returns. Some people tried arguing the original RYV series had the same sort of thing with each successive issue.

Since Marvel has been so resistant to the idea of a married Spider-Man and jumped through so many hoops to be rid of it, wouldn't they be more likely to try and find a solution that fits within the single Spider-Man setting?

Money talks, and the times are changing. The success of the married Superman has turned heads. I like to think they really want their multiverse angle, prevalent since Spider-Verse, to be the solution to the problem. By tying in the likes of Spider-Gwen and Miles to the main universe, it's very obvious they'll ultimately see dollar signs in a big crossover between post-OMD Peter and RYV Peter, possibly for the 30th anniversary of the marriage, which is next year.

I only learned about OMD after the fact, so I kind of missed out of the initial backlash. I still don't really understand the point of the reboot (but, to be fair, I was introduced to Spider-Man in the early 2000s through the movies, so, from my perspective, Peter and MJ being a couple -- married or otherwise -- is hardwired into the mythos and unmovable as the origin story itself and was/is one of the better elements of the franchise).

It simply has everything to do with the same old dogmatic dinosaurs that have been in charge for years getting into a stromp Peter grew up, and one hot-headed editor in Quesada deciding to do something about it in the worst way possible just so he could have HIS preferences for Spider-Man furthered. If he were no longer at the company, we probably would have seen a reversal long ago, or one of Slott's proposals to restore the marriage would have gone ahead. Quesada's letting his grip slip a bit by giving the marriage a big boost again, but he still has a tight leash on the main Spider-Man's status.

I don't think Slott is the best writer for the franchise and tends to cyberbully people, but I do think that some fans cross the line when interacting with him and treat him in ways no one deserves. At worst, Slott's a mediocre Spider-Man writer in a dark era for the comic who's immature online.

Slott's mocked people with autism unprovoked, I think it's fair game with him in all honesty.

WebLurker
09-16-2016, 01:28 AM
I'm probably being over-enthusiastic, but ever since Rebirth began in the early summer, both Action Comics and Superman have been doing very well in the top ten and interest has increased in old 90s back-issues featuring that older Clark Kent.

Nice to here that it's a good time to be a Superman fan, if that's in your wheelhouse.

Porting over the RYV Parkers would be my preferred endgame, but I was wondering if, assuming it does not follow the continuity of the original series, that RYV can be seen as a mirror opposite to 616, with a similar history only the Parkers remained married.

I think I'd prefer the latter over the former. If the RYV Parkers went mainstream, it seems more likely that someone would try to pull another OMD in the future, whereas if they stay in their own little corner where part of the premise is that they're a married couple, it's more likely that that premise will remain intact. (I also generally don't like the idea of events and all that, which one-off series are less likely to get involved in.)

I sort of see RYV as being potentially this decade's equivalent of what MC2 was to 616.

Oh for sure. I actually took RYV as a spiritual successor to Spider-Girl, but with the switch from the daughter's perspective to the father's to keep things fresh.

MC2 had the same history as 616 up to a specific point in the 90s, then it did it's own thing. 616 has occasionally borrowed elements from MC2 since then, and I don't just mean utlizing a version of Mayday for Spider-Verse.

I see.

I was mainly pointing towards those very titles you mentioned since they were the long-runners and focused on elements that fans enjoyed. One was a feel good natural continuation of the original story where Peter reached the next step of his character evolution, and another was the realisation of the long-desired "eternal high schooler that Stan and Steve famously opted to drop in the original run of ASM 33 issues in, which Stan has often been on record as saying he regretted.

While "Ultimate Spider-Man," is my favorite comic, I'm not actually that tied to the high school setting. I mostly liked it because the characterizations felt right and I liked the writing. I actually wish that Ultimate Peter could've grown up, since I think that would've been cool (although I do get that it wouldn't've happened: the comic is close enough to classic 616 Spider-Man that the teenaged protagonist was the main difference).

But, high school is a very entertaining setting, and I frankly think that having a mix of types of Spider-Man stories (teenager, adult, family man) is best, since they each have unique elements that make the stories fun for different reasons.

I expect a lot of spinning to be done in regards to sales, much like how the N52 fans try to spin the positive sales numbers for Rebirth as a string of diminishing returns. Some people tried arguing the original RYV series had the same sort of thing with each successive issue.

I think sales can be tricky to examine, but in the case of RYV, I think the sales coupled with the positive reviews (pre-OMD and post-OMD fans both loved it; even some of the latter wanted to see RYV get a sequel of some kind) indicate that there's a market for the married Spider-Man.

In fact, I'm a little surprised that it took so long for Marvel to announce a sequel. Other Secret Wars series that were popular enough to be expanded on were announced within months. Given that RYV was arguably the most popular of these ones that got a second life, it seems a little odd that Marvel didn't want to capitalize on the success of it sooner. I've tried poking around online to get a sense of what the thought is for a second RYV series, and the response seems really subdued, given the hit it was originally and I wonder if they hype would've been bigger without the wait.

Money talks, and the times are changing. The success of the married Superman has turned heads. I like to think they really want their multiverse angle, prevalent since Spider-Verse, to be the solution to the problem. By tying in the likes of Spider-Gwen and Miles to the main universe, it's very obvious they'll ultimately see dollar signs in a big crossover between post-OMD Peter and RYV Peter, possibly for the 30th anniversary of the marriage, which is next year.

Maybe.

It simply has everything to do with the same old dogmatic dinosaurs that have been in charge for years getting into a stromp Peter grew up, and one hot-headed editor in Quesada deciding to do something about it in the worst way possible just so he could have HIS preferences for Spider-Man furthered. If he were no longer at the company, we probably would have seen a reversal long ago, or one of Slott's proposals to restore the marriage would have gone ahead. Quesada's letting his grip slip a bit by giving the marriage a big boost again, but he still has a tight leash on the main Spider-Man's status.

I suppose. On the other hand, are we that much different from them? We badly want the version of the character we know back, at the expense of the stuff that's come after it. (Not sure where I'm going with this, but I sometimes wonder about it.)

Speaking of Spider-Man marriage boosts, I thought it was odd that Secret Wars seemed to do a 180 on Marvel's dislike of the Peter/MJ relationship. Not only did ASM do the RYV series as a very respectful take on the marriage (and also winding up as a strong argument against OMD period), but the Civil War comic also had Peter and MJ as a married couple (with another daughter character). While MJ and the daughter were not in the story much, Peter having a family was depicted as a positive thing.

Even some of the alternative covers got in on the action. Online, I saw that Secret Wars #1 had options with MJ and Annie watching Peter in action and another showing Peter and MJ having a romantic moment in the corner of an "end of the world party." The second issue had the lovebirds in a scene that seemed to be a mashup of MJ's first appearance at that blind date and the final scene of Spider-Man 2.

Always thought it odd they went those routes, given how much time they spent trying to distance themselves from the marriage.

Slott's mocked people with autism unprovoked, I think it's fair game with him in all honesty.

I did not know that. That is low.

ZariusTwo
09-16-2016, 03:31 AM
In fact, I'm a little surprised that it took so long for Marvel to announce a sequel. Other Secret Wars series that were popular enough to be expanded on were announced within months. Given that RYV was arguably the most popular of these ones that got a second life, it seems a little odd that Marvel didn't want to capitalize on the success of it sooner. I've tried poking around online to get a sense of what the thought is for a second RYV series, and the response seems really subdued, given the hit it was originally and I wonder if they hype would've been bigger without the wait.

The hype is subdued because Marvel haven't been talking about it. Not even Conway's been talking about it. The only person promoting the damn thing besides some die-hard fans is the artist.

I suppose. On the other hand, are we that much different from them? We badly want the version of the character we know back, at the expense of the stuff that's come after it. (Not sure where I'm going with this, but I sometimes wonder about it.)

Nobody wins with these sort of scenarios, the older fans get what they want but the fear of it being undone, as you point out, remains prevalent and nobody trusts how the company will go about it with writers who may think badly of the marriage (although Roger Stern and Slott did very well when they utilised it), and fans who like the current direction are generally screwed about and told their ten year plus investment didn't matter in much the same way our twenty plus year investment didn't matter.

I'd have included Spider-Girl in this as well because Spider-Verse told me twelve years of investment in Peter there didn't matter because he'd die a petty death, but DeFalco stepped in and hinted the real Mayday's universe wasn't affected, so yay.

For some millennial kids, post-OMD Spidey is all they know, their window into his world, and to suddenly decree he doesn't matter...that they don't matter...yeesh. Just stomp on all the toys while you're at it.

I for one loved the Clone Saga as a kid regardless of what it tried to tell me about Spider-Man, but it didn't take up ten years of my time and I kind of snuck a peek at the ending before I got to the point Peter was "revealed" as the clone and Ben the "real" one. The only downer was them losing the baby, but Spider-Girl very quickly came about and told me everything was alright.

Spider-Girl only took two and a half years to happen. Renew Your Vows took eight.

WebLurker
09-16-2016, 11:16 AM
The hype is subdued because Marvel haven't been talking about it. Not even Conway's been talking about it. The only person promoting the damn thing besides some die-hard fans is the artist.

It is not coming out until November, so I guess it makes some sense that Marvel would be focusing on publicizing material coming out now and next month -- although you'd think they'd be trying more hype in hopes of maximizing sales. (I could be wrong about this, but it seems like RYV 2 has gotten some positive reception, whereas I'm not sure I've seen that much excitement over the main "Cone Conspiracy" story -- although I will concede I haven't been looking for it).

[QUOTE=ZariusTwo;1624465]Nobody wins with these sort of scenarios, the older fans get what they want but the fear of it being undone, as you point out, remains prevalent and nobody trusts how the company will go about it with writers who may think badly of the marriage (although Roger Stern and Slott did very well when they utilised it), and fans who like the current direction are generally screwed about and told their ten year plus investment didn't matter in much the same way our twenty plus year investment didn't matter.

That's kind of the way things go. I guess all you can do is try and enjoy the parts of the franchise that do appeal to you.

I'd have included Spider-Girl in this as well because Spider-Verse told me twelve years of investment in Peter there didn't matter because he'd die a petty death, but DeFalco stepped in and hinted the real Mayday's universe wasn't affected, so yay.

Okay. (I do think that, on some level, fiction reading is about the experience itself, so I'm not sure if OMD, early Clone Saga, and the like, exactly make the early stories a meaningless investment, since they can still be read in the context of themselves. I, for one, find the implications on the stories reality more annoying. )

For some millennial kids, post-OMD Spidey is all they know, their window into his world, and to suddenly decree he doesn't matter...that they don't matter...yeesh. Just stomp on all the toys while you're at it.

I could see this becoming a vicious cycle. OMD was created since the people in change wanted to recreate the version of the character they knew. That stepped on the toes of the current generation, some of whom will probably be working at Marvel in the future. I'm sure some of them will be tempted to try and recreate the character they knew, which will step on the toes of current readers, and on and on it goes...

I for one loved the Clone Saga as a kid regardless of what it tried to tell me about Spider-Man, but it didn't take up ten years of my time and I kind of snuck a peek at the ending before I got to the point Peter was "revealed" as the clone and Ben the "real" one. The only downer was them losing the baby, but Spider-Girl very quickly came about and told me everything was alright.

Okay, so "Clone Saga" has its fans. (I did like the Ultimate version, to be fair).

Spider-Girl only took two and a half years to happen. Renew Your Vows took eight.

At least there was some kind of followup somewhere down the line. Not everything gets a second chance (esp. since it seems like comic book couples that get broken up don't get back together that often, unless of an adaptation, a reboot, or something like that).

ZariusTwo
09-16-2016, 12:07 PM
Just when I said there wasn't any marketing from Marvel...look what we got today

http://www.cbr.com/renew-your-vows-promises-spider-man-fun-family-style-heroics/


Here's some highlights

http://cbr.imgix.net/2016/09/ASM-RYV-01-02s-final.jpg

On the relationship

Conway: My interests in this book was to portray a loving couple that may have problems, but their marriage is not a problem. Their relationship is solid. There’s no conflicts, other than the normal ones that come up in a marriage. I don’t think that’s something that people have done too much with, so I thought it would be fun to do.


http://cbr.imgix.net/2016/09/ASM-RYV-01-09-rawscan.jpg

The world:


Conway: Visually, it’s Manhattan. We didn’t take the direction of the “Renew Your Vows” miniseries that was published during “Secret Wars” did of a futuristic Manhattan. The notion here is our world was the Marvel Universe up to the point of “Brand New Day.” Then things continued without that big change. Things have also gone off track in certain ways, though. Some of the stories in our world developed in a different way.

On MJ's powers

Conway: Right now, her spider powers are a result of technology from the Regent, where they’re being drawn from Peter. That’s going to cause some problems, because when she draws powers from Peter he gets weaker. At some point, she’s going to come up with a strategy to get her own unique set of abilities. That’s something for further on down the line.

On continuity

Conway: The Regent did exist in this universe. My thinking is that after “Secret Wars,” this universe was reestablished, but much of the stuff that happened in that miniseries still occurred. So, as I mentioned, we don’t have the high tech future world from that mini, but the Regent did attempt to take over the world and he was put down by Peter, Mary Jane and Annie, together.

WebLurker
09-16-2016, 06:20 PM
Just when I said there wasn't any marketing from Marvel...look what we got today

http://www.cbr.com/renew-your-vows-promises-spider-man-fun-family-style-heroics/

Interesting article.

I think I like the explanation for MJ being superpowered and that the limits of Regent's tech are part of the storyline.

Nice to hear that they've got a plan for an overall story (or first story arc) beyond "let's just revisit this popular comic and wing it."

Was a little surprised to hear that Annie's still eight, since she looks older than she was in the original comic, and she was just eight there, too.

The looser approach to RYV 1 continuity (and continuity in general) sounds okay, even if an exploration of the post-Regent world in the original comic would've been interesting (hopefully means that classic villains that Regent would've wiped out are around for the fun).

ZariusTwo
09-17-2016, 03:43 AM
If they do appear, they may be given makeovers, considering they're giving Mole Man an altered look, but then the classic villains that appeared in the original RYV series looked pretty much the same.

Who do you reckon the mystery villain for the series is?

WebLurker
09-17-2016, 08:56 AM
If they do appear, they may be given makeovers, considering they're giving Mole Man an altered look, but then the classic villains that appeared in the original RYV series looked pretty much the same.

It sounded like Ryan Stegman had free range to reimagine the rogues gallery as he wished, so I'm guessing most, if not all, villains who appear will be getting updates of some kind.

Who do you reckon the mystery villain for the series is?

Well, both Green Goblin and Doc Ock have had histories of being behind-the-scenes masterminds, but are also super obvious. (Given that some of the 616 comics have insinuated that Norman Osborn hates both Peter and Mary Jane for their perceived roles in his son's downfall and death, it would be interesting to see how he interacts, now that they have a child of their own, but I'm not sure they should pull the Goblin in right away, as he's used so much in the franchise.) Kingpin could be interesting, although I get the impression that he's not as interested in power in the supers community.

I want to see Mysterio somewhere down the line, but I don't know if he's big cheese material. Venom would be very interesting guest-star, too, esp. because of the role he played in the original RYV series, but he seems to prefer working alone, so I doubt he's the secret villain.

I kind of wonder of Hobgoblin would be a good choice for the mastermind. He's got the means to do it and the ambition, but would be a less predictable choice than Green Goblin or Ock. Of course, given that Mole-Man is appearing, it could very well be a non-Spider-Man villain, but I'm having trouble thinking of a likely possibility.

What do you think?

ZariusTwo
09-17-2016, 09:55 AM
I wouldn't mind Chameleon actually, since he had a lot of potential after discovering Peter's identity in the late 90s/2000s that wasn't quite realised (the story where he finds out is one of the best of the post-Clone Saga era and you should read it if you haven't), he never did recover as a character from the beating MJ gave him with a baseball bat:lol:

BTW, Conway confirmed on Twitter to a fan that Regent did'nt kill the Avengers or X-Men in this universe, so yeah, it's looking that this is definitely a universe where everything from 1962-2007 happened and then it does it's own thing, borrowing elements from the last decade or so to fit the story.

MikeandRaph87
09-17-2016, 09:57 AM
I went by the LCS yesterday and and swapped out ASM in favor of Renew Your Vows. What is the current release date? Reading through the mastermind comments have me eager to read.

ZariusTwo
09-17-2016, 10:21 AM
No specific date set yet, but it will be out in November

WebLurker
09-17-2016, 01:03 PM
I wouldn't mind Chameleon actually, since he had a lot of potential after discovering Peter's identity in the late 90s/2000s that wasn't quite realised (the story where he finds out is one of the best of the post-Clone Saga era and you should read it if you haven't), he never did recover as a character from the beating MJ gave him with a baseball bat:lol:

Yeah, there could be a lot of fun with a character who can mimic anyone, from him impersonating a hero to even pretending to be a different villain.

BTW, Conway confirmed on Twitter to a fan that Regent did'nt kill the Avengers or X-Men in this universe, so yeah, it's looking that this is definitely a universe where everything from 1962-2007 happened and then it does it's own thing, borrowing elements from the last decade or so to fit the story.

Great to hear that the series has a full roster. I did get the impression that the RYV series is being a little loose with continuity (didn't they say that stuff was generally like 616, but there could be differences in the past?). I'm also curious when Annie was born here. Was it something that happened pre-OMD timeframe (and thus a difference from regular 616), or is it something that happened after OMD timeframe, meaning that it only happened in a timeline where the Parkers rejected the OMD deal, or never even pursued the "save Aunt May" thing.

Also, I'm really curious if Peter's secret id went public like it did in the pre-OMD timeline. (If not, that could explain why OMD never happened here.)

I went by the LCS yesterday and and swapped out ASM in favor of Renew Your Vows. What is the current release date? Reading through the mastermind comments have me eager to read.

No specific date set yet, but it will be out in November

I'm seeing a listing here (https://www.comixology.com/Amazing-Spider-Man-Renew-Your-Vows-2016-1/digital-comic/425423) that issue one's for sale on Nov. 9th.

MikeandRaph87
09-17-2016, 01:22 PM
Thanks for finding the date. The day after the dreadful Election Day.

ZariusTwo
09-17-2016, 01:27 PM
Great to hear that the series has a full roster. I did get the impression that the RYV series is being a little loose with continuity (didn't they say that stuff was generally like 616, but there could be differences in the past?). I'm also curious when Annie was born here. Was it something that happened pre-OMD timeframe (and thus a difference from regular 616), or is it something that happened after OMD timeframe, meaning that it only happened in a timeline where the Parkers rejected the OMD deal, or never even pursued the "save Aunt May" thing.

Also, I'm really curious if Peter's secret id went public like it did in the pre-OMD timeline. (If not, that could explain why OMD never happened here.)

Conway said "everything up to BND" happened, so maybe the public unmasking and OMD also occurred but Peter just turned down the offer. This would make the most sense given all the teasing Marvel have been making in the main books to remind people of Mephisto's existence, it's possible this is to prepare them for something in the first issue of RYV that deals with him.

Then again, when promoting the first series, Nick Lowe said everything up to BND happened and it was evidently a completely different sort of story and setting.

There's mention that certain other events in 616 afterwards occurred differently...how much of that is unknown, but perhaps there was no "Original Sin" and thus no discovery of Cindy Moon/Silk? Assuming Cindy existed at all in this reality. They would have to skirt past the issues with the horny phermone attraction the two had in 616.

I'm seeing a listing here (https://www.comixology.com/Amazing-Spider-Man-Renew-Your-Vows-2016-1/digital-comic/425423) that issue one's for sale on Nov. 9th.

Then it's a date then, thanks for the information. I'm off to spread the word about this so people can really get going with the re-orders

WebLurker
09-17-2016, 10:56 PM
Conway said "everything up to BND" happened, so maybe the public unmasking and OMD also occurred but Peter just turned down the offer.

How would that work, since the Parkers were essentially fugitives at the end of the pre-OMD run? Granted, they could've been pardoned, or maybe they got Doctor Strange to do his forget spell, or something.

However, if they want to keep the secret identity thing in check (which seems possible, given that the Parkers seem to be living without the fame or infamy that would come from being a publicly known superhero, based on what we've seen), the simplest explanation would be assume that Peter never unmasked in Civil War and that his aunt died for other reasons, if she's not in the picture.

I don't know for sure, but since they're feeling free to reimagine the villains, is it possible that this includes events in the past? The description they provided of how stuff ties to 616 seemed vague enough I couldn't tell if they were stating that everything that happened in pre-OMD happened exactly as written, of if they were generalizing when saying that RYV replaces "Brand New Day."

This would make the most sense given all the teasing Marvel have been making in the main books to remind people of Mephisto's existence, it's possible this is to prepare them for something in the first issue of RYV that deals with him.

Or they could be setting up something for 616. If I understand things correctly, Peter is not having much success running said company and his step-father is dying from some medical problem that he's been looking into curing. That's vaguely similar to the circumstances that lead up to OMD in the first place.

Now, I don't know what Dan Slott's plans are for the future, but I could see him and/or Marvel choosing to take things full-circle ten years after OMD and have Mephisto make a second offer (regardless of whether Peter would accept it or not). If Marvel or Slott wants to get rid of Parker Industries and reset Peter to his normal life, a second deal would be one way to do it.


Then again, when promoting the first series, Nick Lowe said everything up to BND happened and it was evidently a completely different sort of story and setting.

Sure, RYV was marketed as a revisiting of OMD and officially billed as the "What if the Parkers' said 'No'?" issue to the story. While that wasn't exactly true, there's an interesting piece of trivia about that. Within the RYV story, there's an eight-year gab between the first and second issues. That's the same year gap between OMD and RYV being published. So, there is a figurative connection, in the sense that if you put the comic together as published in real time, RYV would replace "Brand New Day" and the like.

There's mention that certain other events in 616 afterwards occurred differently...how much of that is unknown, but perhaps there was no "Original Sin" and thus no discovery of Cindy Moon/Silk? Assuming Cindy existed at all in this reality.

Yeah, we'll have to see if they were planning to take later established info abut the past, or in the sense that comics published after OMD don't need to count, even if they influence pre-OMD.

They would have to skirt past the issues with the horny phermone attraction the two had in 616.

If they had Silk in it, I suppose they could just establish that the characters tried to circumnavigate it, since Peter isn't a free agent here.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-18-2016, 12:04 AM
I wouldn't mind Chameleon actually, since he had a lot of potential after discovering Peter's identity in the late 90s/2000s that wasn't quite realised (the story where he finds out is one of the best of the post-Clone Saga era and you should read it if you haven't), he never did recover as a character from the beating MJ gave him with a baseball bat:lol:

BTW, Conway confirmed on Twitter to a fan that Regent did'nt kill the Avengers or X-Men in this universe, so yeah, it's looking that this is definitely a universe where everything from 1962-2007 happened and then it does it's own thing, borrowing elements from the last decade or so to fit the story.


Heh, I remember that issue. Boy she whacked him GOOD. And then there was that issue when Aunt May defeated him with- cookies..... Poor guy probably has severe mental scars from those defeats.

MikeandRaph87
09-18-2016, 12:10 AM
Chameleon knew Spider-Man's identity? I thought only the big three villains ever knew at some point before Civil War.

ZariusTwo
09-18-2016, 04:57 AM
Chameleon knew Spider-Man's identity? I thought only the big three villains ever knew at some point before Civil War.

Chameleon found out right after the Clone Saga ended, he took control of Ravencroft asylum and posed as Ashley Kafka, he managed to ambush and and drug Peter, making him think he was an actor who thought he was Spider-Man. Peter's love for MJ snaps him out of this delusion and Chameleon fled to the Parker house where he tried to attack MJ, but MJ destroyed him with a baseball bat, Chameleon fled and ran into one of Kraven's children, who took him out.

I don't know what happened to him in between, but the next time I read about him, we were in the middle of the horrible post-1999 era, though his next appearance was one of the better stories. Chameleon went through a period of mental instability after that, becoming even suicidal at one point.

ZariusTwo
09-20-2016, 10:07 AM
Cover for December's issue

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1609/20/amazingrenew2.jpg

WebLurker
09-20-2016, 11:36 AM
Nice cover art.

Wonder if the story started in the first issue carries into the second one, or if we've been shown art samples from multiple issues? (Spider-Man getting swarmed by Mole-Man's followers was an early sample Stegman released online.)

Edit: Wow, Conway and Stegman were right about redesigning supervillains. Mole-Man now looks like he's been mutated with animal DNA. Wonder if this is meant to be explained in-story as something that happened to him after the divergence point between 616 and RYV, or if he "always" looked like this in the RYV universe.

ZariusTwo
09-20-2016, 12:08 PM
Nice cover art.

Wonder if the story started in the first issue carries into the second one

The Mole-Man kicks off in the first issue and carries over, that's definite.

Edit: Wow, Conway and Stegman were right about redesigning supervillains. Mole-Man now looks like he's been mutated with animal DNA. Wonder if this is meant to be explained in-story as something that happened to him after the divergence point between 616 and RYV, or if he "always" looked like this in the RYV universe.

I expect a lot of broad strokes where that's concerned...they have a eight year gap between whatever passed for OMD and this, so they don't have to explain it if they don't want to.

WebLurker
09-20-2016, 02:53 PM
I expect a lot of broad strokes where that's concerned...they have a eight year gap between whatever passed for OMD and this, so they don't have to explain it if they don't want to.

Would pre-OMD stuff also fall under the broad strokes rule? I know that the interview made it sound like all those back-issues are in RYV's continuity, but stuff like the Civil War unmasking don't seemed to have happened in this series (based on the fact that Peter is still selling Spider-Man photos to the Bugle and the Parkers aren't on the run from the law), not to mention that some of us think that the earlier series indicated Annie was born during the '90s comics era, which would significantly change the storylines, if that's correct.

ZariusTwo
09-20-2016, 03:23 PM
Would pre-OMD stuff also fall under the broad strokes rule? I know that the interview made it sound like all those back-issues are in RYV's continuity, but stuff like the Civil War unmasking don't seemed to have happened in this series (based on the fact that Peter is still selling Spider-Man photos to the Bugle and the Parkers aren't on the run from the law)

Again, that can be easily covered in the same way it was in OMIT, that Peter and MJ relied on Doctor Strange's mindwipe to hide Peter's identity, and the only difference is MJ didn't freak out about it afterwards and stayed committed to him.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-20-2016, 04:24 PM
Chameleon found out right after the Clone Saga ended, he took control of Ravencroft asylum and posed as Ashley Kafka, he managed to ambush and and drug Peter, making him think he was an actor who thought he was Spider-Man. Peter's love for MJ snaps him out of this delusion and Chameleon fled to the Parker house where he tried to attack MJ, but MJ destroyed him with a baseball bat, Chameleon fled and ran into one of Kraven's children, who took him out.

I don't know what happened to him in between, but the next time I read about him, we were in the middle of the horrible post-1999 era, though his next appearance was one of the better stories. Chameleon went through a period of mental instability after that, becoming even suicidal at one point.



I don't know that I'd consider post-1999 era as horrible- JMS started his run on ASM directly after the 1999 "Disassembled" arc, that basically tore apart the Avengers (Thanks Wanda!) and subjected Spidey to the "Queen" and his transformation into the "Man-Spider" monster that was so similar to the S-M: TAS story arc. I'd consider everything from then until OMD as one of the BEST eras.

I still think that Aunt May defeating him with sedatives in a batch of cookies when he tried to infiltrate Avengers Tower disguised as Peter was the best Chameleon story I've ever read. Guess she knows her nephew better than he thought!! (And he NEVER saw it coming....)

MikeandRaph87
09-20-2016, 05:39 PM
Has Spider-Man ever faced The Mole-Man? Mole-Man is a character I have never read so it will be a character study and fresh for me no matter if it is a variation of the villianous character.

WebLurker
09-21-2016, 01:51 AM
Again, that can be easily covered in the same way it was in OMIT, that Peter and MJ relied on Doctor Strange's mindwipe to hide Peter's identity, and the only difference is MJ didn't freak out about it afterwards and stayed committed to him.

Maybe, although it seems like a really complicated backstory, when it would be simpler to just say that it never happened in the first place. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that the series is more interested in the present than the past, so I'm betting that it's 616 history up till Brand New Day, but I'm predicting a lot of broad strokes.

(Note: I'm pretty sure that Annie was born pre-Clone Saga in the original RYV story, and if that is an altered timeline of this series, like Conway suggested, then I have a hard time understanding how Annie's birthdate would be changed to be post-OMD timeframe. Meaning that Peter and MJ spent most of the 616 years as parents, instead of a childless couple, which would lead to a lot of differences snowballing.)

ZariusTwo
09-21-2016, 04:35 AM
Maybe, although it seems like a really complicated backstory

I don't see how it is in any way "complicated". It's a simple matter of keeping everyone in character while keeping a much simpler solution intact, and the eight year gap in between BND and what we have now means you can plug the gaps any way you want, and future issues will inform any other gaps if it suits the story, and they're not going to worry about that as the interviews suggest.

Has Spider-Man ever faced The Mole-Man? Mole-Man is a character I have never read so it will be a character study and fresh for me no matter if it is a variation of the villianous character.

Peter fought Mole Man in the newspaper strip back in 2010

I don't know that I'd consider post-1999 era as horrible- JMS started his run on ASM directly after the 1999 "Disassembled" arc, that basically tore apart the Avengers (Thanks Wanda!) and subjected Spidey to the "Queen" and his transformation into the "Man-Spider" monster that was so similar to the S-M: TAS story arc. I'd consider everything from then until OMD as one of the BEST eras

"Disassembled" wasn't until 2005/2006. JMS started in 2001, and The Other nonsense occurred in 2006.

I didn't mean every story post-1999 was terrible, just those first two years with Mackie and Byrne. Jenkins was good, JMS was excellent, Bendis was on fire, Spider-Girl was great. People trash Quesada all the time but his run as EIC saw some of the best Spider-Man and X-Men books on the market. Makes one wonder if he had just kept his preferences out of the books, Marvel would still be going strong today instead of having their butts kicked by DC


New rough draft from Stegman

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs00sldVUAAAadZ.jpg

WebLurker
09-21-2016, 12:05 PM
I don't see how it is in any way "complicated". It's a simple matter of keeping everyone in character while keeping a much simpler solution intact, and the eight year gap in between BND and what we have now means you can plug the gaps any way you want, and future issues will inform any other gaps if it suits the story, and they're not going to worry about that as the interviews suggest.

Well, I guess we'll find out over the next few months how the background is handled.

ZariusTwo
09-21-2016, 12:31 PM
Well, I guess we'll find out over the next few months how the background is handled.

Indeed, and if you're right, I'll concede. A part of me really just wants this to have everything in canon prior to the change intact. Everything else event-wise can be different, but just make JMS and all the 2000 era work count for something again.

WebLurker
09-21-2016, 03:35 PM
Indeed, and if you're right, I'll concede. A part of me really just wants this to have everything in canon prior to the change intact. Everything else event-wise can be different, but just make JMS and all the 2000 era work count for something again.

Fair enough. Personally, I don't have any objections to the pre-OMD 616 stuff being ported over as is. I do want the RYV series to have Spider-Man's secret identity intact. Your scenario (where an alternate version of the mind erase) is perfectly fine (even if its not what I'd done). Being a Ultimate fan primarily, I guess I don't have the same kind of attachment to the old comics, and so am not as invested in them being followed as closely.

ZariusTwo
09-21-2016, 03:58 PM
Fair enough. Personally, I don't have any objections to the pre-OMD 616 stuff being ported over as is. I do want the RYV series to have Spider-Man's secret identity intact. Your scenario (where an alternate version of the mind erase) is perfectly fine (even if its not what I'd done). Being a Ultimate fan primarily, I guess I don't have the same kind of attachment to the old comics, and so am not as invested in them being followed as closely.

It's generally my love of those stories that makes me want to keep them. It's why I would never really mind if the post-OMD era was retconned out of existence because aside from mishandling characters and having a status quoe I don't like, the stories really aren't that good or memorable.

WebLurker
09-21-2016, 08:52 PM
It's generally my love of those stories that makes me want to keep them. It's why I would never really mind if the post-OMD era was retconned out of existence because aside from mishandling characters and having a status quoe I don't like, the stories really aren't that good or memorable.

Gotcha.

Is there anything post-OMD that you'd like to see stick around or RYV do its own spin on?

ZariusTwo
09-22-2016, 04:10 AM
Finished version of Stegman's interior for RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs6PS6gUMAAjUo9.jpg


Is there anything post-OMD that you'd like to see stick around or RYV do its own spin on?

Superior Spider-Man. Dan Slott said it would have been impossible to have pulled that story off with a married Peter, but I'd like to see someone pick up the challenge and see where it'd go.

I also would like to know how RYV Peter got involved in the Spider-Verse saga, since he made a cameo appearance in one of the short stories prior to the original RYV series being published. He obviously held his own and survived, but coming into contact with Morlun or the Inheritors intrigues me.

WebLurker
09-22-2016, 09:44 AM
Finished version of Stegman's interior for RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs6PS6gUMAAjUo9.jpg

Is that Mary Jane in the striped shirt? Wonder if this's supposed to be the shop she's running, or another place.


Superior Spider-Man. Dan Slott said it would have been impossible to have pulled that story off with a married Peter, but I'd like to see someone pick up the challenge and see where it'd go.

Interesting. Do you mean the full thing where Ock is successful long-term, or like he initially uploads, but is beat basically the day he does it?

I also would like to know how RYV Peter got involved in the Spider-Verse saga, since he made a cameo appearance in one of the short stories prior to the original RYV series being published. He obviously held his own and survived, but coming into contact with Morlun or the Inheritors intrigues me.

Hmm, would that be considered part of the current RYV timeline, or the one that the Secret Wars version belonged to?

ZariusTwo
09-22-2016, 11:55 AM
Is that Mary Jane in the striped shirt? Wonder if this's supposed to be the shop she's running, or another place.

Yeah, it's MJ. As for whether or not it's her boutique, I'm not sure, there's a vase of flowers at the desk and she seems to be familiar with the people serving her...but it's too early to call on that one just yet.

Interesting. Do you mean the full thing where Ock is successful long-term, or like he initially uploads, but is beat basically the day he does it?

Maybe not for as long-term as Ock, but a span of time that would allow the characters to use their smarts and be redeemed for how easily the wool was pulled over their eyes in the original story.

As for Ock failing "the day he did it", that was already covered in the flashbacks in Scarlet Spiders when he tried it on Ben Reily, only for Ben to resist, which caused Ock's death.

Hmm, would that be considered part of the current RYV timeline, or the one that the Secret Wars version belonged to?

Considering Battleworld's RYV occurred long after Spider-Verse and there was nothing left of the multiverse around that point, and Conway confirming the RYV universe was built back up afterwards, I'd wager money on the current RYV timeline.

In that story, Peter spoke of Harry being around, so his resurrection, as badly handled in the post-OMD era as it was, probably still happened in this timeline too.

WebLurker
09-22-2016, 02:01 PM
Yeah, it's MJ. As for whether or not it's her boutique, I'm not sure, there's a vase of flowers at the desk and she seems to be familiar with the people serving her...but it's too early to call on that one just yet.

On second glance, MJ looks like a customer more than anything.

Maybe not for as long-term as Ock, but a span of time that would allow the characters to use their smarts and be redeemed for how easily the wool was pulled over their eyes in the original story.

As for Ock failing "the day he did it", that was already covered in the flashbacks in Scarlet Spiders when he tried it on Ben Reily, only for Ben to resist, which caused Ock's death.

I see. I'm not sure about all that, but okay.

Considering Battleworld's RYV occurred long after Spider-Verse and there was nothing left of the multiverse around that point, and Conway confirming the RYV universe was built back up afterwards, I'd wager money on the current RYV timeline.

It would make sense that Spider-Verse happened before the Secret Wars incursion. I'm not sure though if it'll play a role or not.

In that story, Peter spoke of Harry being around, so his resurrection, as badly handled in the post-OMD era as it was, probably still happened in this timeline too.

I have the original RYV trade paperback, which has that short story. They don't exactly say that Harry is still alive in the RYV world; the Spider-Men just confirm that they both had Harry as best friend. So, I don't think Harry needs to be alive.

ZariusTwo
09-22-2016, 03:32 PM
New interview with Conway and Stegman

Do you have an itch only Spider family fun can scratch?

Let Gerry Conway and Ryan Stegman tell you all about their new book, AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS, picking up where the Secret Wars series of the same name by Dan Slott and Adam Kubert left off this November and starring everyone’s favorite neighborhood Spider-Man, Mary Jane, and their daughter Annie!

Marvel.com: Spider-Man and his web-headed pals are in a bunch of books right now, sailing across Manhattan’s skyline and punching bad guys. Can you tell us a little about AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS and what makes it different for the other Spidey books out there?

Gerry Conway: It’s hard when you discuss an alternate universe book to make it clear these stories matter to continuity, but in the case of RYV—and all the Spider-Verse inspired series—they really do matter, because there’s the potential for cross-pollination between these universes. But even without that, RYV fills a very special role: it shows us the life Peter Parker would be living without the events of Brand New Day.

For long time fans—and new fans too, of course—it's a book full of possibilities. We can literally do almost anything with Peter, Mary Jane, Annie, and the world of RENEW YOUR VOWS. This is a story about a family of super heroes; close knit, loving, and funny. It’s exciting for us as creators and we hope it’ll be fun and exciting for readers too.

Marvel.com: You guys are playing in an all-new sandbox with this book right? Everything takes place in a world apart from the prime Marvel Universe that hasn’t really been explored yet. Is that kind of creative control daunting? Liberating?

Gerry Conway: I kinda answered this one above. Ryan you wanna take a crack at it?

Ryan Stegman: Sure. It’s absolutely liberating. It reminds me of when I worked on SCARLET SPIDER. It wasn’t a separate universe per se, but it was Houston instead of New York. So we didn’t have to work within the parameters of whichever big events were happening and we could tell an uninterrupted story. In RENEW YOUR VOWS, we have a similar scenario except probably even more freedom as I can change the designs of pretty much anybody to suit how I want to draw them. It’s incredibly fun to put my spin on classic designs.

Marvel.com: What kind of stories are you guys most excited to tell in this new world? You’ve got a clean slate to work with. Do you have any favorite characters you're trying to work in?

Gerry Conway: We’ll be playing in the Spider-Man sandbox, but because we’re the only series set in this particular world, we’re free to bring in characters and villains that might normally only appear in different Marvel series. For example, our first three-issue arc features Mole Man—but it’s a version of Mole Man no one’s seen before.

Ryan Stegman: I just want to tell stories that I would want to read. I’ve always loved love in comic books. It seems to be something that is rarer and rarer these days. But this is a family that loves each other, and that immediately raises the stakes immeasurably. And I get to draw the big super hero action scenes as well as the quiet, tender moments. It’s a perfect balance.

Marvel.com: We’ve got a family of crime fighters doing spider things, but would you call RENEW YOUR VOWS a “family friendly” book?

Gerry Conway: Absolutely. That isn’t to say there won’t be drama and tension, but this isn’t a dark series. The emphasis is on fun, family comedy and drama, action and suspense. Not planning any dramatic visits to the George Washington or Brooklyn Bridges.



1 of 2 Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows (2016) #1 cover by Ryan Stegman

Marvel.com: Gerry how are Peter and Mary Jane different than how we see them now in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN? What sort of relationship do they have? And what's their daughter Annie like?

Gerry Conway: Well, they’ve been married for 10 years, they’re parents of an eight-year-old daughter, they love each other, they’re committed to each other and they have the typical day to day difficulties of a young family in New York. Plus, spider-powers. Which aren’t always a plus.

Marvel.com: Ryan, how does your style in this book compare to say, SCARLET SPIDER? Did you get to reimagine the crime fighting trio’s look?

Ryan Stegman: My style has evolved because SCARLET SPIDER was...five years ago? Yeesh. Anyway, I’ve evolved, but the same super hero action and dedication to drawing Spider-people in spider-poses is still there. I love drawing Spider-people. It’s what I was born to do. So this is a pretty easy project for me to sink my teeth into.

I did get to re-design the costumes. I left Peter’s as-is because, well, it’s the greatest costume design in comic book history. You can do all kinds of different things to it, but nothing beats the classic. MJ got a new look, one based on her love of fashion. Her willful attitude would definitely make her want to set herself apart from Peter’s look. So she’s got a costume that reflects Peter’s, but screams MJ. And their daughter Annie is from the same tree costume-wise, but her costume involves a lot more pads because her parents are over-protective! I mean, would you let your child go swing around the city without pads?

Marvel.com: Is there anything else we should know about RENEW YOUR VOWS before it hits store shelves?

Gerry Conway: It’s going to be a historic hit and everyone needs to order multiple copies for future resale. You’ve been warned.

Ryan Stegman: You should know that I’m doing everything I can to make this the best work of my career. I feel great about it; I’m having the time of my life. I think the readers will feel that enthusiasm coming through.


http://marvel.com/news/comics/26752/marvel_now_hear_this_amazing_spider-man_renew_your_vows#ixzz4L1E6TS23


Peter and MJ have been together a decade here.

I'm assuming with the potential for crossovers, that the RYV Peter or Annie will cross over with 616/Earth Prime next June in a story celebrating the marriage's 30th anniversary

WebLurker
09-22-2016, 10:39 PM
New interview with Conway and Stegman


http://marvel.com/news/comics/26752/marvel_now_hear_this_amazing_spider-man_renew_your_vows#ixzz4L1E6TS23


Peter and MJ have been together a decade here.

I'm pretty rusty on the 616 timeline. If we assume that the RYV Parkers got married at the same time as their pre-OMD-616 counterparts (wherever in the multiverse they are now), does that mean that RYV is taking place concurrently with 616's present, or is it a few years in the future?

Also, if the ten years figure is accurate, the Parkers got married when they did in 616, and Annie is indeed eight, would that suggest that she was born pre-OMD, or am I mixing things up?

I'm assuming with the potential for crossovers, that the RYV Peter or Annie will cross over with 616/Earth Prime next June in a story celebrating the marriage's 30th anniversary

Why would Marvel want to celebrate it, given that they've been trying to push it under the rug for years (as far as 616 goes, at any rate)? It seems like anything that treats it (or the characters as a couple of any kind) kindly these days are specific writers acting on their own violation.

T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!
09-22-2016, 11:05 PM
I loved Spidey all my life but when Marvel done OMD that was the last straw for me. I absolutely loathe Joey Q to this very day and I always will. I've never liked Dan Slott either.

ZariusTwo
09-23-2016, 04:19 AM
I'm pretty rusty on the 616 timeline. If we assume that the RYV Parkers got married at the same time as their pre-OMD-616 counterparts (wherever in the multiverse they are now), does that mean that RYV is taking place concurrently with 616's present, or is it a few years in the future?

Perhaps, but bear in mind the last alternate reality to have the Parkers with children (Spider-Girl) was supposedly set fifteen years in the future, although as the series continued they scaled that back and treated it like an "alternative present" (I've seen examples of that where the year was once 2017, and then a later issue of Spider-Girl had the date being 1996)

Also, if the ten years figure is accurate, the Parkers got married when they did in 616, and Annie is indeed eight, would that suggest that she was born pre-OMD, or am I mixing things up?

That is a good question, and your suspicions may be right after all. It also begs the question whether or not Marvel's "everything happened 13 years ago" excuse for their sliding time scale is accurate for this reality too. In which case Peter would have only spent two years as Spidey single or dating Gwen and Felicia before moving on to MJ.

I had a possible theory during the original RYV series that Peter and MJ had married very early. In 616, MJ turned Peter's first proposal and moved away for a few months before coming back and ultimately accepted the second proposal, but what if the RYV MJ accepted Peter's first proposal way back in the Wolfman run? I don't think anyone's done that before.

Why would Marvel want to celebrate it, given that they've been trying to push it under the rug for years (as far as 616 goes, at any rate)? It seems like anything that treats it (or the characters as a couple of any kind) kindly these days are specific writers acting on their own violation.

Marvel have been pushing MJ pretty heavily in a range of mediums lately as someone close to Peter and having a superhero role (Unlimited, the current season of the USM cartoon, and another game I'm forgetting the name of where she's Iron Spider).

RYV sold well the first time, and Marvel are a business. Regardless of where they think the relationship should be in the main canon, they're not going to sit on easy money like that

Nobody just does what they want at this company either, everything goes through channels and approved before things go through. For all the s*it thrown in Quesada and Alonzo's face, they're the one who have final say on approving things like this. Same with the OMD references. Somebody high up at Marvel is clearly mellowing.

2017 is the marriage's 30th anniversary (and OMD's tenth), it makes sense to publish something and keep it going throughout most of that year, but obviously Marvel don't want to interrupt Dan Slott's ongoing storylines either, so this is the compromise for now.

WebLurker
09-23-2016, 11:36 AM
Perhaps, but bear in mind the last alternate reality to have the Parkers with children (Spider-Girl) was supposedly set fifteen years in the future, although as the series continued they scaled that back and treated it like an "alternative present" (I've seen examples of that where the year was once 2017, and then a later issue of Spider-Girl had the date being 1996)

Fair enough, although since comic books like this usually have a sliding timescale or a floating timeline, I tend to take all exact years with a grain of salt.

That is a good question, and your suspicions may be right after all. It also begs the question whether or not Marvel's "everything happened 13 years ago" excuse for their sliding time scale is accurate for this reality too. In which case Peter would have only spent two years as Spidey single or dating Gwen and Felicia before moving on to MJ.

I guess that depends on how close they want to keep things to the originals.

I had a possible theory during the original RYV series that Peter and MJ had married very early.

Hadn't they always married pretty early? Somewhere, I remember reading that they were in their very early twenties when tying the knot (although their Ultimate counterparts may have one-upped them by essentially eloping at eighteen).

In 616, MJ turned Peter's first proposal and moved away for a few months before coming back and ultimately accepted the second proposal, but what if the RYV MJ accepted Peter's first proposal way back in the Wolfman run? I don't think anyone's done that before.

Maybe, although the original RYV did seem to imply that the pre-marriage timeline was the same. If so, that could be the case here, too, if the series is being written from the assumption that the first RYV series was this timeline altered by Secret Wars.

Marvel have been pushing MJ pretty heavily in a range of mediums lately as someone close to Peter and having a superhero role (Unlimited, the current season of the USM cartoon, and another game I'm forgetting the name of where she's Iron Spider).

Is the latter Avengers Academy? I can't play it but I've seen clips that would support the idea (

RYV sold well the first time, and Marvel are a business. Regardless of where they think the relationship should be in the main canon, they're not going to sit on easy money like that.

True enough, I'm pretty sure the only reason RYV is getting its own series is because of the sales the original made.

Nobody just does what they want at this company either, everything goes through channels and approved before things go through. For all the s*it thrown in Quesada and Alonzo's face, they're the one who have final say on approving things like this. Same with the OMD references. Somebody high up at Marvel is clearly mellowing.

Yeah, when making the original comment, I wasn't suggesting that employees could do what they wanted without any oversight. As pointed out by a few different people, Dan Slott has said that the company's managers have had a policy that re-marrying Peter and MJ is not allowed in the main comics, and when he wanted to do such a story for Secret Wars, he had to get permission to do it.

I guess I'm not sure if the managers really want it coming back as part of the "real "character. As I understand it, while side stories and other iterations are utilizing the relationship, the main comics are still working to wedge the characters apart even further.

2017 is the marriage's 30th anniversary (and OMD's tenth), it makes sense to publish something and keep it going throughout most of that year, but obviously Marvel don't want to interrupt Dan Slott's ongoing storylines either, so this is the compromise for now.

Would we even want the 616 comics to do anything with the marriage anniversary? Whatever other parts of the franchise may do, that series, whenever it addressed it in some fashion, seems to always try and validate OMD as being the right decision or to construct more barriers to prevent the couple from reconciling.

So, if they do anything on 616's end, I'm predicting that it'll just be to get money out of us and will wind up yanking our collective chains. They've been dropping hints at a reconciliation for years and then pulling the rug under us after we swallowed it. I don't see any reason for them to change this pattern of behavior.

Would Marvel worry about interrupting Slott's run, since Secret Wars did just that? I'm not sure if making RYV is a compromise, since I think they're only trying to provide a product that they know will sell.

ZariusTwo
09-23-2016, 01:48 PM
Hadn't they always married pretty early? Somewhere, I remember reading that they were in their very early twenties when tying the knot (although their Ultimate counterparts may have one-upped them by essentially eloping at eighteen).

Yes, MJ pointed out the two were very young when they married, sometimes citing that as a reason their relationship often broke down in between the Clone Saga and JMS eras where they were more stable.

Is the latter Avengers Academy? I can't play it but I've seen clips that would support the idea (

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, when making the original comment, I wasn't suggesting that employees could do what they wanted without any oversight. As pointed out by a few different people, Dan Slott has said that the company's managers have had a policy that re-marrying Peter and MJ is not allowed in the main comics, and when he wanted to do such a story for Secret Wars, he had to get permission to do it.

Yeah, and as discussed here earlier, Slott supposedly had tried to get the marriage restored a couple of other times before then without much success.

I've read concerns from other people the amount of time it's taken to get an ongoing RYV series when other SW tie-ins got titles (Old Man Logan, X-Men 92, Weirdworld) got books almost immediately demonstrates how Marvel are somewhat doing this almost like it's under protest

I guess I'm not sure if the managers really want it coming back as part of the "real "character. As I understand it, while side stories and other iterations are utilizing the relationship, the main comics are still working to wedge the characters apart even further.

The interview on Marvel.com does seem to back that up, asking Conway to compare the differences between how they are in RYV and how they are now in 616, and Conway having to bring up things that the two were so used to in the older status quoe as a selling point when we all know that's how it should always be.

Would we even want the 616 comics to do anything with the marriage anniversary? Whatever other parts of the franchise may do, that series, whenever it addressed it in some fashion, seems to always try and validate OMD as being the right decision or to construct more barriers to prevent the couple from reconciling.

I think there's potential in having the Parkers meet the ones that sold out their marriage, it might not necessarily just be Slott writing the story, it could be a collaboration with him and Conway, with both writers giving the characters special cases for and against the marriage, and have each universe representative being the mouthpiece for their cause. Throw in some decent action as well and you can have a story that can cause anger, but also cause some real relief. I've no problem with emotional stories, so long as they make sense for the world they inhabit.

Would Marvel worry about interrupting Slott's run, since Secret Wars did just that? I'm not sure if making RYV is a compromise, since I think they're only trying to provide a product that they know will sell.

The interviews indicate they want RYV to matter, that much is clear, and I think that's the sensible approach. As for Secret Wars interfering with Slott's run...considering Slott used RYV as a building block for his second Regent story and this series, essentially adding more to his legacy as the decade's premiere Spider-Scribe (not that I think he deserves that accolade), I doubt they're losing sleeping over that particular instance.

WebLurker
09-23-2016, 06:45 PM
Yes, MJ pointed out the two were very young when they married, sometimes citing that as a reason their relationship often broke down in between the Clone Saga and JMS eras where they were more stable.

Maybe Conway can take advantage of that for his story. They're older now, but still intended to be stable. Stability in thirty-somethings (roughly) looks different than stability in early-twenty-somethings.

Yeah, and as discussed here earlier, Slott supposedly had tried to get the marriage restored a couple of other times before then without much success.

I'd never heard that before reading it on this thread.

I've read concerns from other people the amount of time it's taken to get an ongoing RYV series when other SW tie-ins got titles (Old Man Logan, X-Men 92, Weirdworld) got books almost immediately demonstrates how Marvel are somewhat doing this almost like it's under protest.

I would really like to know the genesis of the series, too; I find creative processes like that interesting. As far as the other Secret Wars series go, I think you do need to take into account that some of them were planned to become ongoings from the beginning. A-Force, for example, was one. I think Old Man Logan was, too.

Now, X-Men '92 was a surprise hit that was not intended to go further, and it continued pretty promptly. So, it would seem that RYV's delay, given that it was arguable the most successful and popular tie-in series of the Secret Wars event, could be connected to Marvel higher-ups not really wanting to bring back the Spider-Man marriage on a regular basis anywhere. On the other hand, we don't know how long it took them to find a creative team to write it, an empty publishing slot, etc. So, while it's always a possibility that some Marvel employees were not eager to do it, we don't know how long it took to get ducks in a row when it was decided.

The interview on Marvel.com does seem to back that up, asking Conway to compare the differences between how they are in RYV and how they are now in 616, and Conway having to bring up things that the two were so used to in the older status quoe as a selling point when we all know that's how it should always be.

It will be interesting to see how Marvel handles the advertising and distribution of the series (assuming that it sells well), whether it gets lower attention or the same amount as any other side series gets.

I think there's potential in having the Parkers meet the ones that sold out their marriage, it might not necessarily just be Slott writing the story, it could be a collaboration with him and Conway, with both writers giving the characters special cases for and against the marriage, and have each universe representative being the mouthpiece for their cause. Throw in some decent action as well and you can have a story that can cause anger, but also cause some real relief. I've no problem with emotional stories, so long as they make sense for the world they inhabit.

We'll see when the times comes what they decide to do, if there is a crossover in the first place.

The interviews indicate they want RYV to matter, that much is clear, and I think that's the sensible approach.

That's good, I guess.

As for Secret Wars interfering with Slott's run...considering Slott used RYV as a building block for his second Regent story and this series, essentially adding more to his legacy as the decade's premiere Spider-Scribe (not that I think he deserves that accolade), I doubt they're losing sleeping over that particular instance.

I don't think anyone, from Marvel, Slott, to the fans are complaining about the original RYV's success (nor should we). What I was wondering was if Slott wanted to take a break and do a different Spider-Man story with no connection to his ASM work from the beginning, or if he was told he needed to put the ASM story on hiatus for Secret Wars, and then decided to take advantage of the opportunity to do stuff he couldn't do in the core series (Peter and MJ married and parents, the classic low-middle-class setting, and whatever else)?

ZariusTwo
09-25-2016, 03:18 PM
Another pic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtN_e2kWAAQGFVi.jpg

ZariusTwo
09-26-2016, 09:54 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtSDBW_W8AAtCAW.jpg

Artwork from the guy who does the SPIDEY title

ZariusTwo
09-28-2016, 03:34 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ctdn-L4XgAEDpK_.jpg

ZariusTwo
09-29-2016, 04:46 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CteX8H4UkAAyf3d.jpg

A full colour panel from RYV

WebLurker
09-29-2016, 11:50 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CteX8H4UkAAyf3d.jpg

A full colour panel from RYV

Not sure if I like seeing Spider-Man's ear through his mask, but the artwork overall looks awsome. If and when Stegman and the colorists get replaced, they'll have left some big boots to fill.

ZariusTwo
09-29-2016, 03:13 PM
MJ to the rescue as Peter is overcome by Moleoids

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtiJoh1VUAA14v5.jpg

ZariusTwo
09-30-2016, 04:28 PM
http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Amazing_Spider-Man_Renew_Your_Vows_1_Top_Secret_Artist_Variant-600x922.jpg

WebLurker
09-30-2016, 09:55 PM
http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Amazing_Spider-Man_Renew_Your_Vows_1_Top_Secret_Artist_Variant-600x922.jpg

Is that a piece of fan art, or something?

ZariusTwo
10-01-2016, 05:35 AM
Is that a piece of fan art, or something?

No, it's an actual variant for the first issue

Marvel are doing this a lot with Spider-Books. One variant for the new Venom series features a recolouring/retrace of a Todd McFarlane image.

ZariusTwo
10-02-2016, 02:24 PM
Mole Man

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtxxN88UMAA725Y.jpg

WebLurker
10-02-2016, 09:10 PM
Mole Man

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtxxN88UMAA725Y.jpg

Interesting, he looks more like the classic version of the character than the more animal-like version on the cover art for the second issue.

ZariusTwo
10-03-2016, 11:27 AM
Stegman begins work on another illustration of the entire Spider-Family

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct2kViCVIAAMHjM.jpg

ZariusTwo
10-03-2016, 02:10 PM
And here's the follow-up

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct3QkTLUAAA_yYu.jpg

ZariusTwo
10-05-2016, 08:38 AM
http://cbr.imgix.net/2016/10/ASMRENEW2016001016-col.jpg


http://cbr.imgix.net/2016/10/ASMRENEW2016001018-col.jpg

More here

http://www.cbr.com/excl-preview-amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-1/

WebLurker
10-05-2016, 09:52 AM
http://cbr.imgix.net/2016/10/ASMRENEW2016001016-col.jpg


http://cbr.imgix.net/2016/10/ASMRENEW2016001018-col.jpg

More here

http://www.cbr.com/excl-preview-amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-1/


Was that a dinosaur? I am so looking forward to this!

(Question: If I wanted to collect the single issues alongside the trades, do I have to order them in advance, or can you just go to a store after the release date and buy them off the shelf?

ZariusTwo
10-05-2016, 10:59 AM
Was that a dinosaur? I am so looking forward to this!

(Question: If I wanted to collect the single issues alongside the trades, do I have to order them in advance, or can you just go to a store after the release date and buy them off the shelf?

I usually go to the store for my comics/trades, but I think there's a subscription service.

ZariusTwo
10-06-2016, 06:31 AM
Another variant

https://65.media.tumblr.com/239bd6a7c7662e4dc4bc1ac5ca6acf19/tumblr_oekpo2AgRF1vux1guo1_540.jpg

WebLurker
10-06-2016, 09:19 AM
Another variant

https://65.media.tumblr.com/239bd6a7c7662e4dc4bc1ac5ca6acf19/tumblr_oekpo2AgRF1vux1guo1_540.jpg

So, this's a piece of official cover art? Looks nice even if it's not.

ZariusTwo
10-06-2016, 09:28 AM
So, this's a piece of official cover art? Looks nice even if it's not.

I just said it was another variant, meaning it's official. It's exclusive to KRS Comics store chains

ZariusTwo
10-06-2016, 12:28 PM
Gerry Conway liked a photoshop I made (sent to him by a good friend, I don't use twitter)

https://twitter.com/gerryconway/status/784069542108499968

WebLurker
10-06-2016, 01:24 PM
I just said it was another variant, meaning it's official.

Oh, sorry.

It's exclusive to KRS Comics store chains

Shoot, that's probably the best cover so far.

ZariusTwo
10-09-2016, 03:24 AM
No surprise, Quesada brought up that he unmarried Peter Parker at NYCC and said it was the "right thing to do".

Of course, he must have been the one to OK Renew Your Vows, so one wonders how much of that he means these days or if he's being sarcastic

Also likens the personalities of Marvel writers online as "wrestling personas"

A look at RYV#3's cover

http://67.media.tumblr.com/ea78ebba702340dba3956822ad973706/tumblr_oeqsifw9tZ1vux1guo1_r1_1280.jpg

WebLurker
10-09-2016, 08:58 AM
No surprise, Quesada brought up that he unmarried Peter Parker at NYCC and said it was the "right thing to do".

Of course, he must have been the one to OK Renew Your Vows, so one wonders how much of that he means these days or if he's being sarcastic

Unless he means that it was the right thing to do for the 616 comics and RYV's existence as a side-story doesn't affect that. I disagree with his assessment 100%, but I can follow that be might permit this element outside of the "main" scope of things, esp. since I think the RYV series is being produced primarily because of the original sales.

Also likens the personalities of Marvel writers online as "wrestling personas"

Huh. :tconfuse:

A look at RYV#3's cover

http://67.media.tumblr.com/ea78ebba702340dba3956822ad973706/tumblr_oeqsifw9tZ1vux1guo1_r1_1280.jpg

l like it.

ZariusTwo
10-09-2016, 10:10 AM
Unless he means that it was the right thing to do for the 616 comics and RYV's existence as a side-story doesn't affect that.

For now anyway...but you know me, I'm always thinking there's bigger plans to come:P

He does say "was the right thing" too, not "IS", and a few years ago they would have definitely have said the latter.

WebLurker
10-09-2016, 12:55 PM
For now anyway...but you know me, I'm always thinking there's bigger plans to come:P

He does say "was the right thing" too, not "IS", and a few years ago they would have definitely have said the latter.

Interesting observation.

Given though, that they've been stringing pre-OMD Spider-Man fans along for years with red herrings, bait-and-switches, misleading information, and anything and everything to rub salt in the wounds, in all honesty, I don't trust Marvel's comic division at all when it comes to this character.

We'll have to wait and see, of course, but the track record tells me that nothing's changed (although I will concede that the existence of both the original RYV miniseries and the new ongoing are stuff I couldn't imagine them allowing years ago).

(Is there any links to stuff about the interview/event/whatever in question?)

ZariusTwo
10-09-2016, 02:33 PM
(Is there any links to stuff about the interview/event/whatever in question?)

Bleeding Cool has it.

WebLurker
10-10-2016, 12:13 AM
Bleeding Cool has it.

Thanks.

Not sure I agree with Quesada on everything (unmarrying Spider-Man is still an asinine decision, IMHO, and I don't see how acting like a jerk online in justifiable in any way, even if it is a "joke" or not meant to be taken seriously).

But, it is interesting to read about what the people who make this stuff think and how they approach their jobs.

(By the way, ZariusTwo, I missed the fan art cover you linked to before. Pretty cool. The "Rebirth" thing was clever, esp. since the RYV material has been paralleling and being compared to DC's "Lois and Clark" comic, right down to the latter being expanded into an ongoing as part of the DC Rebirth project -- and figuratively, too, since the RYV series as been a rebirth of the classic Spider-Man for many of us.)

ZariusTwo
10-10-2016, 03:02 PM
Ryan resumes RYV


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CubSeBEUIAAycKm.jpg

ZariusTwo
10-12-2016, 04:36 PM
Another preview from RYV, Mrs. Parker kicks Moleoid ass

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cul0W5dUIAAd7zl.jpg

http://marvel.com/news/comics/26848/spider-mans_family_ties_deepen

Love is in the air with Gerry Conway and Ryan Stegman’s November 9-launching series AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS.

Next month, readers will get a chance to see what would have happened if Peter Parker and Mary Jane stayed together and had a daughter named Annie who herself goes on to fight crime. This ongoing, alternate-universe title picks up where the Secret Warsbook of the same name by Dan Slott and Adam Kubert left off, but blazes its own trail.

We talked with Stegman about working alongside a Spider-Man legend, building this new world, drawing accurate kid characters, and more.

Marvel.com: You’re working on this book with a Spider-Man legend. What’s the collaborative relationship like with Gerry?

Ryan Stegman: It’s an honor for starters. It’s also pretty daunting! He’s worked with some of the greatest artists in comics history. I’m just doing my best to not make a fool of myself.

Marvel.com: When it came to designing the super hero looks for Mary Jane and Annie, how much of it was original design and how much was looking back to the Secret Wars limited series?

Ryan Stegman: It was pretty much 100% original design. In the originalSecret Wars series, their costumes had context for how they had come up with them. It made perfect sense for that book. Even though this book picks up from where that one left off, there is a different context and I wanted to reflect that.

To me it wouldn’t make sense for MJ to continue sporting the Regent look, and it would make sense that Annie would start out with the costume she had in that series because they had to come up with something quickly. But now she’s had a little time and they’ve come up with something more practical.

^^^Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows (2016) #1 preview inks by Ryan Stegman

Marvel.com: This series takes place in an alternate universe where, basically, Brand New Day didn’t happen. Is that giving you a lot of room to go in different directions with the designs of otherwise familiar characters?

Ryan Stegman: Absolutely. I can take these characters in any direction I want, pretty much. And that’s extremely liberating. I’ve always loved Spider-Man’s villains and I have a lot of thoughts on them and how they should be portrayed. Since I’m not really following anything, I can get into a creative space that is very exciting for me.

Marvel.com: Who have you had the most fun putting your stamp on so far?

Ryan Stegman: Mole Man! No question. This guy is UG-LY. And I absolutely love drawing him for it.

Marvel.com: What are the keys to getting Annie’s look right? It's not always easy to draw hero kids that still look like kids instead of tiny adults.

Ryan Stegman: Well, it’s very difficult to be honest! But to draw kids you have to exaggerate their features. You have to change the proportions of the head and make the eyes bigger. There’s a delicate balance between not exaggerating enough and exaggerating too much, but you just have to keep trying ‘til it works. I’ve got kids, too, so I look at them. Plus, I have a niece that is Annie’s age so I try and keep her in mind always.

Marvel.com: This version of Peter and MJ have been together for 10 years and have a daughter together. How do you portray them differently than you would if they were more newly in love?

Ryan Stegman: I’m not sure that I do! I portray them as very much in love, just as much as always. They are meant to be together, and while they may have their disagreements it always comes back to that place of love with them.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #1 by Gerry Conway and Ryan Stegman walks down the aisle on November 9!

ZariusTwo
10-13-2016, 03:44 PM
Lettered preview of Renew Your Vows

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5482954-amazing_spider-man_renew_your_vows_1_preview_1.jpg

More here

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/first-look-spider-man-renew-your-vows-1/1100-156117/

This feels like Spider-Man...not just a throwback to a classic era, but something that feels like it belongs in the here and now. Conway has adapted well to the current style. I'm fully on board for this, it demonstrates the essential elements of the franchise: comedy, smarts, and chemistry.

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-RENEW-YOUR-VOWS-VOL-2-1-ARTGERM-LEGACY-COLOUR-VARIANT_700_600_7SUGM-2.jpg

I also heard a few interesting leaks from the Marvel office (this may or may not happen)

The plan for RYV is to make it the centrepiece of a new "all ages, more innocent" Marvel Universe that could potentially be used as a soft Rebirth-style reboot for the company in case Marvel 2.0 fails

WebLurker
10-14-2016, 01:17 AM
Lettered preview of Renew Your Vows

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5482954-amazing_spider-man_renew_your_vows_1_preview_1.jpg

More here

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/first-look-spider-man-renew-your-vows-1/1100-156117/

This feels like Spider-Man...not just a throwback to a classic era, but something that feels like it belongs in the here and now. Conway has adapted well to the current style. I'm fully on board for this, it demonstrates the essential elements of the franchise: comedy, smarts, and chemistry.

Nice. There is a lot of exposition in the sample scene and for someone who's very used to the very "naturalistic" writing style from Ultimate Spider-Man (my favorite comic series of all time), it's a bit of an adjustment. But, I do like the jokes (can't stop laughing about the "not a truck", and is it sad or what that I know who Godzooky is despite having never seen a Godzilla movie or show in my life?) and all the characters sound like themselves, so I can't wait.

I also really like the paint-like colors and Spider-Man fighting a T. Rex is definitely on the list of things I didn't know I wanted until I saw it. (Can we please have a family vacation to the Savage Lands sometime?)

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-RENEW-YOUR-VOWS-VOL-2-1-ARTGERM-LEGACY-COLOUR-VARIANT_700_600_7SUGM-2.jpg

So, is this variant a general release or for a specific store or something?

I also heard a few interesting leaks from the Marvel office (this may or may not happen)

The plan for RYV is to make it the centrepiece of a new "all ages, more innocent" Marvel Universe that could potentially be used as a soft Rebirth-style reboot for the company in case Marvel 2.0 fails

Thoughts on the spoilers:
I think it's very possible that they have that idea as a possible contingency, at least. It makes a lot of business sense to keep their options, and there's no loss if they don't need to use it. And if the market supports both, hey, two revenues for the coffers are better than one.

The one reason I might discount it is that Conway and Stegman have been stating in the interviews that their series is the only one set in the RYV world, allowing them to bring in any guest-stars they want without coordinating with other series. While that could change, it seems odd that they would be emphasizing RYV standing alone when it's being considered to be the first of many (unless the hypothetical new Marvel universe isn't all in one continuity, but separate series with a similar tone.

It would be interesting if RYV did create a whole new universe, since that's what Spider-Girl and Ultimate Spider-Man did (although, ironically, in both cases, the Spider titles were the only installments in MC2 and Ultimate that seemed to gain and keep any long-term traction).

Personally, I'd kind of prefer if Marvel 2.0 was replaced by a newer world with RYV around. Admittedly, I never had a strong attachment to 616 (since the various movies, some cartoons, and Ultimate are the stuff that resonate with me), but I've never been that fond of the darker takes, and currently, Marvel comics are changing up so many stuff, a more back to basics approach sounds more appealing.

Is Marvel 2.0 not doing that well? From poking around the web, it seems like people are finding stuff on the publishing list that they want to check out?

ZariusTwo
10-14-2016, 03:42 AM
So, is this variant a general release or for a specific store or something?

It's a UK retailer exclusive I think

Is Marvel 2.0 not doing that well? From poking around the web, it seems like people are finding stuff on the publishing list that they want to check out?[/spoiler]

Last week saw more DC dominance, however it's early days yet, we'll know something concrete in the second week by the end of the weekend when the numbers come in.

WebLurker
10-14-2016, 09:38 AM
Last week saw more DC dominance, however it's early days yet, we'll know something concrete in the second week by the end of the weekend when the numbers come in.

Wonder how bad things would have to get that they would decide a full-scale hard reboot is preferable to just modifying the exiting 616 comics?

ZariusTwo
10-14-2016, 09:48 AM
DC are still further ahead of the market share

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/10/13/dc-comics-even-ahead-marvel-average-per-title-marketshare-august/

WebLurker
10-15-2016, 11:30 PM
DC are still further ahead of the market share

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/10/13/dc-comics-even-ahead-marvel-average-per-title-marketshare-august/

I have poked around forums and seen discussions and arguments on comic book sales and what that means for the series popularity with fans and whether or not they prove that certain decisions were good or not, etc. I'm kind of suspecting that sales data can be used to prove whatever you want, depending on how you analyze it.

ZariusTwo
10-16-2016, 06:48 AM
Perhaps, especially when today's September sales estimate seem to hint the likes of Doom Patrol have soundly thrashed ASM in sales as well


Hip-Hop variant

http://66.media.tumblr.com/b9387084cd0897f8f1def993d1ae9d6d/tumblr_of3zxe3YdR1riacnfo1_1280.jpg

WebLurker
10-16-2016, 12:40 PM
Perhaps, especially when today's September sales estimate seem to hint the likes of Doom Patrol have soundly thrashed ASM in sales as well

Any news on how "Clone Conspiracy" is doing? I haven't been able to get a sense of what the general opinion is of its existence and I'm really curious about how it'll be received, esp. in comparison to RYV.

Hip-Hop variant

http://66.media.tumblr.com/b9387084cd0897f8f1def993d1ae9d6d/tumblr_of3zxe3YdR1riacnfo1_1280.jpg

I don't like this one very much. Right now, if I was going to get a variant cover that was not tied to a specific store or region, I'd either go with the Kubert one or the action figure one.

ZariusTwo
10-16-2016, 03:24 PM
Any news on how "Clone Conspiracy" is doing? I haven't been able to get a sense of what the general opinion is of its existence and I'm really curious about how it'll be received, esp. in comparison to RYV.

It made number 9 this week, but was outsold by Action Comics and Wonder Woman. It should be noted that Diana wasn't even in her own title this week and Action Comics focused pretty much entirely on Lois Lane

New variant

http://67.media.tumblr.com/c9f5fad0d36ecfe3ad4cef23d0374caf/tumblr_of583kj5q21vux1guo1_1280.jpg

WebLurker
10-16-2016, 04:46 PM
It made number 9 this week, but was outsold by Action Comics and Wonder Woman. It should be noted that Diana wasn't even in her own title this week and Action Comics focused pretty much entirely on Lois Lane

Hmm. Well, not exactly the event of the year, but being in the top ten is hardly anything to sneeze at. It'll be interesting to see if it stays in the upper range or not; a few consistent complaints I've heard are that "Clone Conspiracy" is pretty much a remix and rehash of every other clone story written. Wonder if that'll hold true to the end or not?

New variant

http://67.media.tumblr.com/c9f5fad0d36ecfe3ad4cef23d0374caf/tumblr_of583kj5q21vux1guo1_1280.jpg

Really don't like that cover.

Is it normal for a comic book to get this many variant covers?

ZariusTwo
10-17-2016, 04:40 AM
Hmm. Well, not exactly the event of the year, but being in the top ten is hardly anything to sneeze at. It'll be interesting to see if it stays in the upper range or not; a few consistent complaints I've heard are that "Clone Conspiracy" is pretty much a remix and rehash of every other clone story written. Wonder if that'll hold true to the end or not?

Well Slott's been insisting we not think of it as a Clone Saga (even if the marketing has clones all over that) and even has characters in-story insist that the revived characters are "reanimates" and not clones as they have all the memories of the original up until death.

I generally just see this story as Slott fulfilling his dream of having every one of Peter's loved ones turn on him viciously, as was hinted already in the Gwen Stacy back-up story in the first issue of Clone Conspiracy.


Really don't like that cover.

What DO you like? You sound like you're extremely hard to please when it comes to covers.

Is it normal for a comic book to get this many variant covers?

Yes. You should have seen the number of variants they had for the post-superior relaunch (which coincided with the release of the ASM II movie)

WebLurker
10-17-2016, 08:50 AM
Well Slott's been insisting we not think of it as a Clone Saga (even if the marketing has clones all over that) and even has characters in-story insist that the revived characters are "reanimates" and not clones as they have all the memories of the original up until death.

So, why call it a clone story and have the characters using cloning tech, if they're not "really" clones? I've never understood this point. It seems like Slott hasn't thought out the story that well (unless there's some surprise later down the road).

I generally just see this story as Slott fulfilling his dream of having every one of Peter's loved ones turn on him viciously, as was hinted already in the Gwen Stacy back-up story in the first issue of Clone Conspiracy.

If that is indeed the case, he must have different story dreams that me in regards to this franchise.


What DO you like? You sound like you're extremely hard to please when it comes to covers.

I liked the default cover for RYV #1 well enough. The Kubert and action figure versions were good, too (as I mentioned before). Really liked the exclusive with Peter and MJ hugging with the villains in the background (really annoyed that one is online only). The only ones I don't like (that I remember right now) are the hip-hop version and the one with Venom. (I also like the covers for issues two and three).

I wouldn't consider myself hard to please, it just so happens in this case that I liked more of the variant covers for the original RYV miniseries than the variants this time around.



Yes. You should have seen the number of variants they had for the post-superior relaunch (which coincided with the release of the ASM II movie)

I must've missed that. I did hear that Marvel's new Star Wars #1 got almost a hundred cover variants, which I gathered is considered excessive.

TonySiegel
10-18-2016, 09:16 AM
Perhaps, especially when today's September sales estimate seem to hint the likes of Doom Patrol have soundly thrashed ASM in sales as well


Hip-Hop variant

http://66.media.tumblr.com/b9387084cd0897f8f1def993d1ae9d6d/tumblr_of3zxe3YdR1riacnfo1_1280.jpg

Mannnnn thats dope!

http://i.imgur.com/o6TGP.jpg

ZariusTwo
10-18-2016, 12:58 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvDTEF_XEAAdpuj.jpg

Full Marvel solits

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1610/18/marveljan.htm

According to the info for Issue Three, it seems Annie will have to save her parents on a school night!

MJ vs T-Rex

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvEiPWPUkAAIw4x.jpg

ZariusTwo
10-20-2016, 12:58 PM
So RYV is doing pretty well in the reorder charts, topping reorders for Clone Conspiracy and second only to Bendis' relaunch of Iron Man with Riri Williams in the role

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/10/20/marvel-now-turns-things-around-advance-reorders-chart/

MikeandRaph87
10-20-2016, 01:09 PM
Why is Tony taking a break from Ironman anyway? JamesRhods is a standby Ironman so its no need for the teenager.

I do hope it can be a consistent top ten showing up creative as to how people want Spider-Man.

ZariusTwo
10-20-2016, 01:39 PM
Why is Tony taking a break from Ironman anyway? JamesRhods is a standby Ironman so its no need for the teenager.

Rhodes was killed at the beginning of Civil War II

WebLurker
10-20-2016, 03:10 PM
So RYV is doing pretty well in the reorder charts, topping reorders for Clone Conspiracy and second only to Bendis' relaunch of Iron Man with Riri Williams in the role

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/10/20/marvel-now-turns-things-around-advance-reorders-chart/

Nice to see. Hope there'll be some copies on the shelf when I get a chance to go to the store.

ZariusTwo
10-21-2016, 02:08 PM
Hr3Jr5vkhzc

According to this video, RYV takes place on Earth 18119

ZariusTwo
10-22-2016, 05:40 AM
Couple of J.Scott Campbell variants for RYV

https://zaredit.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/14732238_10153759597792581_2897604791193406074_n.j pg

https://zaredit.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/14523281_10153759595712581_7875733945193261192_n.j pg

MikeandRaph87
10-27-2016, 07:21 PM
Apparently Venom's identity will be a mystery for a while. It is strange to have a series focus on a character,but the readers don't know who they are reading about.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/26/venom-debuts-new-costume-for-upcoming-comic-series

ZariusTwo
10-28-2016, 04:19 AM
Apparently Venom's identity will be a mystery for a while. It is strange to have a series focus on a character,but the readers don't know who they are reading about.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/26/venom-debuts-new-costume-for-upcoming-comic-series

What does this have to do with RYV? Yeah, there's a connection between RYV and 616 but this isn't a "Spider-Man General" thread

MikeandRaph87
10-28-2016, 08:24 AM
What does this have to do with RYV? Yeah, there's a connection between RYV and 616 but this isn't a "Spider-Man General" thread

I was wondering if its the Venom we saw in RYV crossing over into Earth-616.

ZariusTwo
10-28-2016, 12:48 PM
gNwWj8K_77s


Stegman's comments in some of this are very interesting, it's clear he's trying not to spoil certain details but the line about this being a pocket universe and what he says about this being "Real Spider-Man" could be interpreted as slips

WebLurker
10-31-2016, 12:52 AM
Unless he's just generally referring to the idea that the comic is its own thing and trying to tell stories that are authentic to the Spider-Man mythos.

ZariusTwo
10-31-2016, 05:14 AM
I can always count on you to be the realist:P

Marvel are reprinting Kraven's Last Hunt next year as part of their Essentials line, Amazon lists it as coming out a few weeks before Spider-Man: Homecoming, and they're going to bundle it with ASM Annuals 20 and 21, which means they're reprinting Peter and MJ's wedding again. Hmm....

Also, it's Halloween, which means it's been twenty years real time since the death of Ben Reily, Norman Osborn's return, and, depending on your interpretation, the miscarriage/abduction of Mayday Parker

MikeandRaph87
10-31-2016, 09:23 AM
I can always count on you to be the realist:P

Marvel are reprinting Kraven's Last Hunt next year as part of their Essentials line, Amazon lists it as coming out a few weeks before Spider-Man: Homecoming, and they're going to bundle it with ASM Annuals 20 and 21, which means they're reprinting Peter and MJ's wedding again. Hmm....

Also, it's Halloween, which means it's been twenty years real time since the death of Ben Reily, Norman Osborn's return, and, depending on your interpretation, the miscarriage/abduction of Mayday Parker

The Essential Spider-Man stopped at 252. 'Kraven's Last Hunt' was in 292-293 so that is still forty issues away. It would take two volumes. Is there a date for volume 12 give starting with #253? It would reasonably stop at about #276 and then the second proposal and 'Kraven's Last Hunt' would be covered in volume 13 in say #276-297. I have all of the Essentials so I am interested in knowing which issues are covered and when the next volume FINALLY comes out.

ZariusTwo
10-31-2016, 11:19 AM
My apologies, it wasn't Essentials after all, it was the Epic collection

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1302907050?pldnSite=1

WebLurker
10-31-2016, 12:03 PM
I can always count on you to be the realist:P

I do try to balance optimism with realism. Also, even if it isn't the "real" 616 Spider-Man, if the characterizations are correct, then the comic succeeded at the important part.

Marvel are reprinting Kraven's Last Hunt next year as part of their Essentials line, Amazon lists it as coming out a few weeks before Spider-Man: Homecoming, and they're going to bundle it with ASM Annuals 20 and 21, which means they're reprinting Peter and MJ's wedding again. Hmm....

Interesting to hear. Maybe I should pick that up when the price drops more (or get it used or something), esp. if it's consistent with the RYV timeline.

MikeandRaph87
10-31-2016, 01:27 PM
You got me excited! I thought we were finally getting the 12th volume. We have been stuck on 252 for quite some time. I knew it would take two volumes to get to the story in question. Starting at #289 with an arc already in progress is an odd choice. That ends the Gang War which was the follow up to the famous Daredevil arc and had Leeds killed off by Jack O'Lantern. Its cool to see this I just prefer Marvel finish something t started.

ZariusTwo
10-31-2016, 02:54 PM
I do try to balance optimism with realism. Also, even if it isn't the "real" 616 Spider-Man, if the characterizations are correct, then the comic succeeded at the important part.



Interesting to hear. Maybe I should pick that up when the price drops more (or get it used or something), esp. if it's consistent with the RYV timeline.

I'm wondering that, since RYV will probably still be running by the time we reach the summer of 2017, we might then get a flashback story to how Annie came about and get a distinct timeline placement for her, since Conway says everything up to BND happened, I wonder if Kraven remained dead and did'nt come back via Grim Hunt then? (although we've already seen one version of Kraven be tackled by Annie in the original RYV series)

WebLurker
11-01-2016, 12:12 AM
I'm wondering that, since RYV will probably still be running by the time we reach the summer of 2017, we might then get a flashback story to how Annie came about...

That could be fun.

...and get a distinct timeline placement for her, since Conway says everything up to BND happened...

In the interviews, they've been consistent on the points that Annie is eight, but Peter and MJ have been married for ten years. Even if that's just an estimate, that would mean that many of the pre-OMD/BND stories would've unfolded in a time when the Parkers were parents, something that wasn't the case in the original stories.

That would mean that there are already differences (since, if I understand correctly, the stories between the marriage and OMD unfold over more than two years). So, either Conway meant that the RYV backstory was loosely based on the pre-OMD Spider-Man comics or the timeframe is becoming extremely compressed. Or it could just be plain wrong. The original RYV story was advertised as taking place at the end of the pre-OMD comics, as the alternative path, and of course, that didn't turn out to be the case.

I wonder if Kraven remained dead and did'nt come back via Grim Hunt then? (although we've already seen one version of Kraven be tackled by Annie in the original RYV series)

That question probably won't be answered unless Kraven actually appears or we know exactly how RYV relates to its parent miniseries.

I think its safe to say that "Kraven's Last Hunt" never happened in the original RYV series timeline. The story took place very shortly after Peter and MJ's marriage, but the point when the RYV universe was sucked into Battleworld seems to be after the "...Last Hunt" timeframe, esp. if Conway's decree that Annie was born two years after the marriage; Battleworld lasted for eight years, which means Annie was born around the time of the formation. Besides, there's no mention of Kraven dying and being resurrected in RYV, nor does he know Spider-Man's real identity, which you'd thing would happen if "...Last Hunt" existed here.

Now, is Slott's RYV an altered timeline of Conway's RYV in-story? If so, I think it's safe to say that Kraven has the same history and is alive and well. If it's not and the new series is a hard reboot (which could be the case, given that all the details mention taking liberties with the original RYV comic), then its up to Conway which way he wants to slide things. I'm just thinking out loud, but I'm guessing that Conway will want Kraven to live and choose to do it by having "...Last Hunt" not happen. Having the character alive means more storytelling possibilities and it's easier to just say: "He never died in this reality" than coming up with an explanation to resurrect him to tie into a comic story that the readers may or may not know.

ZariusTwo
11-01-2016, 05:20 AM
That could be fun.



In the interviews, they've been consistent on the points that Annie is eight, but Peter and MJ have been married for ten years. Even if that's just an estimate, that would mean that many of the pre-OMD/BND stories would've unfolded in a time when the Parkers were parents, something that wasn't the case in the original stories.

Perhaps we should look to Marvel's current official stance on Peter and MJ in 616 for a clue. They're on the record that, in 616 Peter and MJ lived together for five years, half of the ten years they spend together in RYV, which meant a lot of compression went on as you suggest. The pregnancy may or may not be canon anymore because of how convoluted OMD and it's sequel OMIT were, but I've seen it speculated the pregnancy happened probably a year or so into the marriage.

Now, it's still not clear if Annie is the second attempt at having a child, or has now taken the place of Mayday as the one and only child Peter and MJ had in the 1990s, and caring for her thus would take up the majority of those years Peter and MJ spent together, if not a bit more. I still like to think she's the second child, but that would mean MJ would have had to become pregnant awfully quickly after losing the first one, and they'd have to retcon Civil War's ending (where it was speculated MJ became pregnant shortly after going on the run with Peter), as taking place just a few months after the first miscarriage.

Not exactly a lot of space, but then, sliding timescales are a bother, a Roger Stern story from the BND era once went out of it's way to say "Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaught" , a near two decade old story, happened "months ago" rather than years ago.

WebLurker
11-01-2016, 09:31 AM
Perhaps we should look to Marvel's current official stance on Peter and MJ in 616 for a clue. They're on the record that, in 616 Peter and MJ lived together for five years, half of the ten years they spend together in RYV, which meant a lot of compression went on as you suggest.

So, unless it gets retconned into being a couple years instead, most of the '90s run would overlap with Annie's childhood? Maybe they'll do the same thingthat OMD did with those comics: "The stories happened, but the Parkers were actually parents at the time, so pretend that that's the case when reading them"? However, I think it would be simpler to compress the five years into two years or to just decide that this is not a continuation of the pre-OMD continuity.

The pregnancy may or may not be canon anymore because of how convoluted OMD and it's sequel OMIT were, but I've seen it speculated the pregnancy happened probably a year or so into the marriage.

If that's right, Annie could be very well the second kid. The original RYV makes no mention of the Parkers having lost a child before, so I'd be a little surprised if Mayday existed in that story, but if RYV the series plays fast and loose with the original, that may not be a factor.

Now, it's still not clear if Annie is the second attempt at having a child, or has now taken the place of Mayday as the one and only child Peter and MJ had in the 1990s, and caring for her thus would take up the majority of those years Peter and MJ spent together, if not a bit more. I still like to think she's the second child, but that would mean MJ would have had to become pregnant awfully quickly after losing the first one, and they'd have to retcon Civil War's ending (where it was speculated MJ became pregnant shortly after going on the run with Peter), as taking place just a few months after the first miscarriage.

Assuming that Annie is an only child would be a simpler setup. My theory is that they'll either do that or not go too deep in the past. Also, given that the releases seem to suggest that the Parkers are not on the run and have secret identities, I wonder if most of Civil War will either be retconned or no longer exist. After all, Civil War was a stepping stone to OMD, which never happened here.

Not exactly a lot of space, but then, sliding timescales are a bother, a Roger Stern story from the BND era once went out of it's way to say "Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaught" , a near two decade old story, happened "months ago" rather than years ago.

I've gathered that you're not supposed to look to closely at the sliding timescale, since it's impossible to cover every single base. That example makes very little sense to me.

ZariusTwo
11-01-2016, 12:39 PM
given that the releases seem to suggest that the Parkers are not on the run and have secret identities, I wonder if most of Civil War will either be retconned or no longer exist. After all, Civil War was a stepping stone to OMD, which never happened here.

I'm sure we've talked about this before in the thread, but it's entirely plausible that the methods Peter used to make people forget who he was (seen in OMIT) were still used. If they were, then the "psychic blindspot" may still have a lasting effect, since we don't know if "Spider-Island" happened in this timeline (in that story, Doctor Strange's psychic spell that prevented people from working out Peter's identity was broken, so people can learn who he is again and retain the knowledge)

Conway said certain events from 616 went a different route, so there's evidence to suggest Civil War might be among those altered events..and yet Aunt May remains conspicuous by her absence. The original RYV series revealed she died, but was not clear on the cause of death. The photographs glimpsed in the first issue of the original series reveal that she was around when MJ was pregnant, but she passed on very early in Annie's life.

ZariusTwo
11-01-2016, 03:46 PM
The first issue of ASM: Renew Your Vows will feature two back-up stories, one of which is a short helmed by Kate Leth ("Hellcat") and Marguerite Sauvage (DC's Bombshells, Scarlet Witch), their story will see Mary Jane (still wearing her original Regent armor from the Slott-penned RYV series) and Annie battle The Rhino

http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/01-ink-1.jpg


http://www.cbr.com/exclusive-mary-jane-stars-in-amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-story/

WebLurker
11-01-2016, 10:03 PM
I'm sure we've talked about this before in the thread, but it's entirely plausible that the methods Peter used to make people forget who he was (seen in OMIT) were still used. If they were, then the "psychic blindspot" may still have a lasting effect, since we don't know if "Spider-Island" happened in this timeline (in that story, Doctor Strange's psychic spell that prevented people from working out Peter's identity was broken, so people can learn who he is again and retain the knowledge)

I think you're right about this coming up before. Guess we'll have to wait and see when the comic comes out and they start addressing the past as to what still happened and what went a different path.

Conway said certain events from 616 went a different route, so there's evidence to suggest Civil War might be among those altered events..and yet Aunt May remains conspicuous by her absence. The original RYV series revealed she died, but was not clear on the cause of death. The photographs glimpsed in the first issue of the original series reveal that she was around when MJ was pregnant, but she passed on very early in Annie's life.

Could being a parent have influenced Spider-Man's actions during Civil War (like not joining in period), or something?

I'm not good with 616 dates. If Aunt May passed away around the time that Annie was born (or within a few years thereafter), would that be more or less concurrent with the original attempt to write her passing in 616 that was later retconned to be an imposter?

Meaning, is it possible that in this series, Aunt May's first death story was used as was without the retcon, like it was in Spider-Girl? Would the timelines match?

The first issue of ASM: Renew Your Vows will feature two back-up stories, one of which is a short helmed by Kate Leth ("Hellcat") and Marguerite Sauvage (DC's Bombshells, Scarlet Witch), their story will see Mary Jane (still wearing her original Regent armor from the Slott-penned RYV series) and Annie battle The Rhino

http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/01-ink-1.jpg


http://www.cbr.com/exclusive-mary-jane-stars-in-amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-story/

Yay! The mom/daughter interactions between MJ and Annie were a highlight of the original story, so I'm all in favor of revisiting that. Nice to see the original comics' battle armor come back, too.

(Do back-up stories make it into the trade paperbacks?)

ZariusTwo
11-02-2016, 05:18 AM
(Do back-up stories make it into the trade paperbacks?)

The trade for the original RYV series came with a back-up story from Spider-Verse that introduced the RYV Peter, so I expect so.

ZariusTwo
11-02-2016, 01:29 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwRhGpaUEAATm-3.jpg

ZariusTwo
11-02-2016, 05:19 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwSIe2yUAAAV5Qd.jpg

ZariusTwo
11-04-2016, 07:06 AM
New preview pages from Renew Your Vows

http://cbr0.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ASMRENEW2016001-int-LR2-3.jpg

http://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-1-3/

God it feels so good to get a more authentic-sounding Peter and MJ again. Conway nails it here.

...And the poster on Annie's wall there depicts Carol Danvers as she looks currently, so this is definitely an alternative present rather than an 80s/90s-style "throwback" universe that the Battleworld version of RYV was set in

WebLurker
11-04-2016, 10:32 AM
New preview pages from Renew Your Vows

http://cbr0.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ASMRENEW2016001-int-LR2-3.jpg

http://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-1-3/

God it feels so good to get a more authentic-sounding Peter and MJ again. Conway nails it here.

...And the poster on Annie's wall there depicts Carol Danvers as she looks currently, so this is definitely an alternative present rather than an 80s/90s-style "throwback" universe that the Battleworld version of RYV was set in

Like the writing and the artwork/coloring. (I actually thought that the Secret Wars RYV series started in a '90s-style time period in issue one but then shifted to the present for the main story -- albeit a present in which Regent had made and standardized a lot of future tech. I could be wrong, though.)

Interesting that it looks like Annie's name has been slightly changed for this series. The original implied that "Annie" was actually her first name, with May being her middle name. Here though, her parents call her "Anna-May," implying that she has a double moniker like her mom (except hyphenated), and "Annie" is just a nickname.

ZariusTwo
11-08-2016, 05:58 AM
One day to go!

ZariusTwo
11-09-2016, 07:56 AM
Today's the day!

Divided We Stand variant for RYV is pretty interesting

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/15036271_322396994807994_1965094334162828632_n.jpg ?oh=27a1d7794d02c65bdf0b5a9b58648b60&oe=58C83929

Campbell is working on another variant for RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxwwZjXgAAIw3V.jpg

ZariusTwo
11-09-2016, 10:03 AM
Holy hannah, that was fun!

Everything was on-point. The Peter/MJ interaction, the relationship with Annie, they didn't leave out Peter's genius by having him tinker with an aerial drone he can use to take photos of himself, and they took a snipe at Peter working in a lab, having this version declare it was "no fun"

The back-up strip depicting Sandman babysitting Annie was good too.

WebLurker
11-10-2016, 01:01 PM
Got my copy. While it's mostly setup, it was a pretty good setup easing us back into the world and setting things up (even if I wanted more fighting with the dinosaur).

I'm really curious about the unnamed guy [spoiler]who's trying to aquire any of Regent's leftover tech[/quote]. That looks like it could be a very fun subplot.

Loved the jokes, like the running gag of Peter's lists and Jameson's quitting smoking in favor of a candy cane stick. The Parker family was written on the mark too.

The backup stories were fun, although I couldn't tell if they were supposed to be in canon with the series or not.

ZariusTwo
11-10-2016, 02:24 PM
The backup stories were fun, although I couldn't tell if they were supposed to be in canon with the series or not.

I think they are. The first back-up takes place when Annie is slightly younger, and then MJ has the Regent outfit on in the second back-up. There's a reference to Tony Stark in the second back-up also and MJ's reaction indicates they're on bad terms, which makes sense if this is meant to follow the continuity of everything prior to OMD. The original Civil War happened and Aunt May died as a result of the unmasking which was prompted by Stark.

As for the mystery kid? I think it's Harry's kid, Normie

WebLurker
11-10-2016, 02:58 PM
I think they are. The first back-up takes place when Annie is slightly younger, and then MJ has the Regent outfit on in the second back-up. There's a reference to Tony Stark in the second back-up also and MJ's reaction indicates they're on bad terms, which makes sense if this is meant to follow the continuity of everything prior to OMD. The original Civil War happened and Aunt May died as a result of the unmasking which was prompted by Stark.

The MJ and Annie story I could actually see in continuity. The first one, with Annie hanging out with Peter I wasn't so sure since I had a hard time imagining Peter trusting Annie would be safe with Sandman, esp. since it seemed to imply that Sandman was still doing his supervillain gig.

Also, why did Spidey call Sandman "William" if the guy's first name is "Flint."

As for the mystery kid? I think it's Harry's kid, Normie

That could be interesting.

ZariusTwo
11-11-2016, 12:46 AM
Also, why did Spidey call Sandman "William" if the guy's first name is "Flint."

William Baker was his alias when he went straight in the 80s/90s wasn't it? Could be a nod to that

WebLurker
11-11-2016, 10:24 PM
Suddenly realized something. The flying police cars from the original RYV miniseries were shown in the MJ and Annie short story in this issue.

Wonder how that stacks up with Gerry Conway's stated intent that in this series, the future tech that Regent had wasn't invented?

ZariusTwo
11-13-2016, 05:22 AM
Suddenly realized something. The flying police cars from the original RYV miniseries were shown in the MJ and Annie short story in this issue.

Wonder how that stacks up with Gerry Conway's stated intent that in this series, the future tech that Regent had wasn't invented?

Perhaps the artists didn't get that memo. It's happened a lot under Nick Lowe's reign as editor of the Spider-books where all sorts of continuity errors have occurred. I can let it slide really, since the book does appear to be set "twenty minutes into the future" and flying cars are almost always going to be a part of futures like that.

ZariusTwo
11-13-2016, 01:50 PM
Well the good news is RYV is in the top twenty for this past week, the bad news is it didn't make the top ten (Slott's Clone Conspiracy was in 10th place, barely making it in) and had to settle for number 16. Not necessarily a deal breaker because books like Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen, and Spider-Man 2099 don't crack high numbers like that and they go on, but still disappointing if you wanted to use this launch issue as a means to "send a message" to Marvel

WebLurker
11-13-2016, 05:31 PM
Perhaps the artists didn't get that memo. It's happened a lot under Nick Lowe's reign as editor of the Spider-books where all sorts of continuity errors have occurred. I can let it slide really, since the book does appear to be set "twenty minutes into the future" and flying cars are almost always going to be a part of futures like that.

I didn't have a major problem with it (esp. since the description of the series always indicated that it was going to be a loose continuation with changes and retcons planned). It just struck me as funny that the hover car made it in, since that was one thing that Conway specifically mentioned that he wasn't planning to use in the series proper.

Well the good news is RYV is in the top twenty for this past week, the bad news is it didn't make the top ten (Slott's Clone Conspiracy was in 10th place, barely making it in) and had to settle for number 16. Not necessarily a deal breaker because books like Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen, and Spider-Man 2099 don't crack high numbers like that and they go on, but still disappointing if you wanted to use this launch issue as a means to "send a message" to Marvel

Top twenty is still a pretty good opening, esp. considering it's not the main series, the huge gap of time between it and Slott's RYV being released, the sheer number of Spider-books being made now, and the fact that it's technically an "out of continuity" series.

It would've been interesting to see how readers and others would've reacted had RYV outdone "Clone Conspiracy," but even if it had, it's still to early to tell. How the sales overall go will be a better indicator of how RYV and Slott's ASM stack up and what the public is more interested in.

(Incidentally, most of the reviews I've seen for RYV were really positive, while I've gathered that Slott's Clone stuff has been a little more mixed. So, it may have won in that sense.)

ZariusTwo
11-14-2016, 05:49 AM
You'd be right, a lot of professional comic critics have said these versions of Peter and MJ are more on-point and true to the essence of the characters, and have also talked about their dissatisfaction with Slott's direction. Let's hope the strong word of mouth helps sales in the coming weeks.

ZariusTwo
11-14-2016, 12:48 PM
http://www.newsarama.com/images/i/000/183/777/original/ASMRENEW2016002014_col.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/images/i/000/183/776/original/ASMRENEW2016002007_col.jpg

MJ deals with problems at work and on the battlefield in our first look at RYV#2

http://www.newsarama.com/31988-mary-jane-vs-mole-men-s-minions-in-amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-2-first-look.html#s4

ZariusTwo
11-17-2016, 12:31 PM
Star Wars and Hawkeye in big demand on advance reorders. Also, so much for interest in the "status quo altering" third issue of Clone Conspiracy, it doesn't make it on to the list, where as retailers are more interested in the Parker family kicking ass. Renew Your Vows#2 is the only Spider title listed.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/11/17/star-wars-doctor-aphra-thor-motor-crush-ad-and-hawkeye-top-advance-reorders/

WebLurker
11-17-2016, 03:23 PM
Star Wars and Hawkeye in big demand on advance reorders. Also, so much for interest in the "status quo altering" third issue of Clone Conspiracy, it doesn't make it on to the list, where as retailers are more interested in the Parker family kicking ass. Renew Your Vows#2 is the only Spider title listed.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/11/17/star-wars-doctor-aphra-thor-motor-crush-ad-and-hawkeye-top-advance-reorders/

Wonder how post-order sales will go (I don't pre-order comics, myself)? But, nice to see that the series' sophomore issue seems to be doing good business.

ZariusTwo
11-18-2016, 04:30 AM
Renew Your Vows, Invincible Iron Man, Black Panther: World of Wakanda, Captain America: Steve Rogers#7, and Clone Conspiracy#1 have all gone to second printings and will be available on December 28th.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/11/17/renew-comics-reprints-spider-man-black-panther-iron-man/

And Spider-Man Crawlspace secured a big interview with RYV's writer Gerry Conway, where he also opens up about his past work on the character

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/2016/11/17/podcast-444-gerry-conway-interview/

In that podcast interview, Conway confirms the first Civil War didn't happen in the RYV universe, no public unmasking etc. That's a bit of a bummer, as it means having to ignore all the good stuff that did come out of Civil War (including Fraction's annual). Then again, the details on this book's continuity have changed several times now...I remember Nick Lowe lying about how Slott's RYV mini-series rode off the back of everything he'd previously set up, and it turned out to be a different sort of thing


Another look at Mole Man from RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxfNG08UQAAG7HY.jpg

WebLurker
11-18-2016, 01:44 PM
And Spider-Man Crawlspace secured a big interview with RYV's writer Gerry Conway, where he also opens up about his past work on the character

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/2016/11/17/podcast-444-gerry-conway-interview/

Listened to that, really liked hearing it.

In that podcast interview, Conway confirms the first Civil War didn't happen in the RYV universe, no public unmasking etc. That's a bit of a bummer, as it means having to ignore all the good stuff that did come out of Civil War (including Fraction's annual).

I suppose you could argue that the flashback parts to the annual (the mix tape incident, the insights into what the characters were thinking at the time, etc.) still happened, even if the framing story (Peter and MJ reflecting on how they came together) isn't. The sentiments expressed in the story seem to hold true to RYV, so it's certainly thematically accurate.

Personally, I have no love for Civil War the comic based on what I've read of it (I did love the movie, though), so I'm not sorry to see it go, but your mileage may vary.

Then again, the details on this book's continuity have changed several times now...I remember Nick Lowe lying about how Slott's RYV mini-series rode off the back of everything he'd previously set up, and it turned out to be a different sort of thing

True, although Conway has been pretty consistent on a few points, including that his RYV series is set in a slightly different world than Slott's was and that the pre-OMD 616 materials generally happened, but there are some differences. So, unless the actually story shows otherwise, I'm kind of inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. (Also, wasn't Lowe the only one saying that RYV replaced OMD?)


Another look at Mole Man from RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxfNG08UQAAG7HY.jpg

I'm really confused; in the actual artwork, Mole-Man looks like a human, but on the cover of issue two, he looks like he has an actual mole's face. What's up with that, if he doesn't seem to actually look like mutant mole?

ZariusTwo
11-22-2016, 12:24 PM
Looks like the Sandman back-up story from Issue One will have a lead story follow-up in Issue Four

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111275673/5545284-2588972504-14798.jpg
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #4

Gerry Conway (W), Ryan Stegman (A/C), Humberto Ramos (VC).

·It's family fun night at the Parker household!

·After their first outing as a Spider-Family, Peter and MJ want to have a nice relaxing night with Annie.

·So of course the Parker Luck dictates that Sandman has to crash the party!

WebLurker
11-22-2016, 01:24 PM
Looks like the Sandman back-up story from Issue One will have a lead story follow-up in Issue Four

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111275673/5545284-2588972504-14798.jpg

Should be fun.

ZariusTwo
11-22-2016, 02:29 PM
https://twitter.com/RyanStegman/status/801123236578816004

Marvel done f*cked up. The cover for Feb is actually for the fifth issue the following month.

Still, nice to know the Sandman storyline is going to be a multi-parter

ZariusTwo
11-24-2016, 05:27 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx-nEBVXgAAtjzx.jpg

MsMarvelDuckie
11-24-2016, 04:07 PM
The more I see of RYV the more I think THIS may be the Spidey book I've been waiting for! Sure took them long enough. If funds permit I might start getting this in trades when they come out. And the earlier storyline it sprang from as well. Speak with our wallets- that's the way to tell them that we want more of this, amirite??!!

ZariusTwo
11-28-2016, 07:07 AM
More from Stegman and RYV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyS5DOAUoAA7-3T.jpg

ZariusTwo
11-29-2016, 12:20 PM
http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ASM-RYV-04-final-2-RGB2.jpg

Here's the new cover and solit for February's fourth issue


AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #4
Written by Gerry Conway
Penciled by Ryan Stegman
Cover by Ryan Stegman
Variant cover by HUMBERTO RAMOS
– A story so big we had to extend it to another issue!
– The Spider-Family has finally banded together as a team!
– But that still doesn’t scare the Mole Man…

WebLurker
11-30-2016, 12:31 AM
http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ASM-RYV-04-final-2-RGB2.jpg

Here's the new cover and solit for February's fourth issue

So the Mole-Man story is going to go for four issues? Was that a change, since I was under the impression that the opening story was going to be three?

[EDIT: Wait, it would have to be an extension, since they say as much in the ad. [smacks forehead] Wonder who had the idea to add the extra issue, Gerry Conway/Ryan Stegman or Marvel?]

Hope that it allows the story to breathe and be better and doesn't turn out to be unneeded padding. Of course, I cut my comic-reading teeth on the original Ultimate Spider-Man, which averaged six or seven issues a story, so I generally prefer longer stories anyways.

(This might explain the Sandman cover we were confused about. If they decided to extend the Mole-Man tale, then there would've been a time when Sandman would've been issue#4.)

The new cover looks good. Love Mole-Man's smug grin, although I'm still confused why he looks like a literal mole man on issue#2. Wonder if the scene is actually taken from the story, or made up to make a good cover?

Can't wait.

ZariusTwo
11-30-2016, 05:18 AM
I suspect the four issue extension may have to do with cramming in more, encircling the main story with some flashbacks to what Peter, MJ, and Annie get up in daily life. We already got that covered with Peter and MJ together in the first issue, but issue two hints we'll see what goes on with MJ at her fashion store, and issue three indicates we see some of Annie's school life. That leaves the fourth issue to be a story where everyone gets to function together.

WebLurker
11-30-2016, 11:24 PM
I suspect the four issue extension may have to do with cramming in more, encircling the main story with some flashbacks to what Peter, MJ, and Annie get up in daily life. We already got that covered with Peter and MJ together in the first issue, but issue two hints we'll see what goes on with MJ at her fashion store, and issue three indicates we see some of Annie's school life. That leaves the fourth issue to be a story where everyone gets to function together.

Hmm.

We'll have to wait for the actual issues to see how well it works out, but, on paper, I'm all for it. A lot of the Spider-Man stuff I find most memorable are the non-superhero parts, so bringing more of them in seems like a good call.

WebLurker
12-03-2016, 01:17 AM
There's a new interview (http://www.newsarama.com/32225-amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-not-bound-by-the-weight-of-prior-darkness.html) with Gerry Conway and Ryan Stegman online.

A few things we've heard before, but some new thoughts and comments. It's apparently on the table to place RYV's diversion from 616 ASM to before the '90s Clone Saga (which honestly makes sense to me, since Annie was born two years after Peter and MJ's marriage, which would mean that most of the married-years comics would've happened in a setting where they were parents instead of a childless couple).

Also, they've confirmed that the opening story arc is going to have one issue focusing on each Parker (#1 seems to be Peter's story, I'm gonna bet MJ is the star of #2, and Annie gets the spotlight in #3), with the final one being everything coming together (we may have already guessed that, but I like the sound of that structure). The Sandman story will be a one-issue story, as will the one after that. Then there will be a two-parter and a four or five parter. And somewhere down the line, there will be really big arc that'll unfold over months.

ZariusTwo
12-03-2016, 04:26 AM
I kind of figured they would backtrack even more on some things happening and not happening...it makes sense not to give readers a potential excuse to just give up the mainstream Spider-Man title as the option of undoing OMD can still be used one day, where as if you went with this title having everything canon up until a certain point of divergence then it really just doesn't give 616 the chance to redeem it's Spider-Man.

Newsarama to their credit does bring up the idea fans could supplant the main book, and Conway says they can stand as equals.

Here's a pic of MJ swinging around...and yep, that's Normie alright, up to no good (spoilered for size)

http://www.newsarama.com/images/i/000/185/627/original/ASMRENEW2016002010scol.jpg

And an update on the symbiote picture Stegman posted on Twitter...it looks like forgotten 90s character Scream, either that or Venom's possessed MJ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cys9MngWQAAzPUZ.jpg

WebLurker
12-03-2016, 11:44 PM
I kind of figured they would backtrack even more on some things happening and not happening...it makes sense not to give readers a potential excuse to just give up the mainstream Spider-Man title as the option of undoing OMD can still be used one day, where as if you went with this title having everything canon up until a certain point of divergence then it really just doesn't give 616 the chance to redeem it's Spider-Man.

I kind of wonder if you're reading a little too much into it. From the interview, it sounds like the changes to the timeline they're making are to serve the story they want to tell. (Of course, I do think the 616 Spider-Man series is beyond redemption at this point and would probably be a happy camper if RYV Spider-Man became the "real" one, so I may be seeing this differently than someone who has an emotional investment to the pre-OMD 616 Spider-Man.)

Newsarama to their credit does bring up the idea fans could supplant the main book, and Conway says they can stand as equals.

While I'm no fan of the post-OMD Spider-Man and it's representation of the world and characters, I'm glad that they're taking a live and let live approach to it all. I've been hanging around online sources for a few fanbases I'm a part of, and many of them have been getting really vitriolic and toxic in regards to disagreement over what is the best way to handle the franchise and which version of it is the "correct" one, and all that. It gets really tiring and actually zaps my enjoyment of those franchises.

So, at this point, I just want to see RYV do well and stick around. While it would be somewhat satisfying to see it outdo Dan Slott's Spider-Man, I don't really think it's worth the energy to hope it does, if that makes any sense. I just want to enjoy my plate of pie and leave the rest of the buffet to those who're in the mood for it.


Here's a pic of MJ swinging around...and yep, that's Normie alright, up to no good (spoilered for size)
http://www.newsarama.com/images/i/000/185/627/original/ASMRENEW2016002010scol.jpg


Glad to see we'll be learning a little more about him, since the "Project G" thing they set up with him is really peaking my interest.


And an update on the symbiote picture Stegman posted on Twitter...it looks like forgotten 90s character Scream, either that or Venom's possessed MJ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cys9MngWQAAzPUZ.jpg

Huh. Not sure I'm a fan of the hair-like design, but I want to see it in full-color and in the context of the story before I decide for sure.

ZariusTwo
12-04-2016, 04:59 AM
I kind of wonder if you're reading a little too much into it. From the interview, it sounds like the changes to the timeline they're making are to serve the story they want to tell. (Of course, I do think the 616 Spider-Man series is beyond redemption at this point and would probably be a happy camper if RYV Spider-Man became the "real" one, so I may be seeing this differently than someone who has an emotional investment to the pre-OMD 616 Spider-Man.)

You're probably better off than I am. It's despairing to hear Marvel take more and more of an anti-continuity stance these days because we were so used to consistency on that level for so long and they make your journey and investment matter more. Continuity may be all over the place at DC, but there are certain anchors there that remind you of what came before so you let the convoluted stuff pass.

Marvel are kind of playing fast and loose with continuity...using it when it suits their story, but abandoning it to take a fresh approach (the ASM newspaper strip is routinely guilty of this). It can work, but for some stories that depend on character motivations being key to events and how they unfold, avoiding them can be a nightmare. RYV, for what it's worth, will be character driven, using continuity when it suits them, but letting the story be informed by the connections between Peter, MJ, and Annie, and if anything, regardless of how everything fits, that's what I desire the most from it.

I just want the JMS era to matter in a less than bittersweet manner. The only other option I have at this moment is to go with the One-Above-All's guarantee that Peter and MJ made it out of Civil War and had kids in the future.

WebLurker
12-04-2016, 08:59 PM
You're probably better off than I am. It's despairing to hear Marvel take more and more of an anti-continuity stance these days because we were so used to consistency on that level for so long and they make your journey and investment matter more. Continuity may be all over the place at DC, but there are certain anchors there that remind you of what came before so you let the convoluted stuff pass.

I like consistent continuity, but don't mind multiple continuities. To me, RYV was always an alternate continuity, not a representation of a non-OMD/Dan Slott/whatever 616, so I may have had different expectations going in.

Also, the fact that the Spider-Man comic series I originally followed was the Ultimate one affects my opinion. To me, USM was the "real thing" when it came to the comics, 616 was just another parallel reality story that's had increasingly little to do with Spider-Man as I know it. (Now, I do like other versions, like RYV, just as much as USM for varying reasons, but I will concede that I've never really needed 616 nor have I followed it, so I don't really mourn it's loss the way other people who have do.)

Marvel are kind of playing fast and loose with continuity...using it when it suits their story, but abandoning it to take a fresh approach (the ASM newspaper strip is routinely guilty of this). It can work, but for some stories that depend on character motivations being key to events and how they unfold, avoiding them can be a nightmare.

I think they'd be better off writing more "out of continuity" stories. Comic book fans still like the movies, even if those take liberties with the source material. It would seem to follow that they'd enjoy reading stand-alone stories that didn't quite mesh if if that was part of the point and not an author retconing stuff at the drop of a hat.

RYV, for what it's worth, will be character driven, using continuity when it suits them, but letting the story be informed by the connections between Peter, MJ, and Annie, and if anything, regardless of how everything fits, that's what I desire the most from it.

Sounds good. Besides, a good story can be written that fits with the past ones without mentioning every little detail about the past. (I'm becoming increasingly suspicious that the backup stories are not in canon with the main series, but I don't think that's a problem.)

I just want the JMS era to matter in a less than bittersweet manner. The only other option I have at this moment is to go with the One-Above-All's guarantee that Peter and MJ made it out of Civil War and had kids in the future.

As I understand it, that has been officially declared to be the future of another universe than 616. If you ask me, though, a universe where the pre-OMD stuff happened and the OMD and the crap that followed didn't at all is preferable to the idea that those pre-OMD stories only happened in one universe and were erased by OMD, with the only hope being some hazy suggestion that things might ultimately work out in spite of the damage and only in some future that current Marvel management will never let happen.

(Funny thing is, according to the Marvel Wiki, there are quite a few universes in the Marvel multiverse where Peter and MJ get their happy ending -- or at least are on the way to it. Granted, some of these are only established as throwaway scenes in a larger story or are stand alones, or something, but they are there, and some of them were even published after OMD. So, not only is the post-OMD 616 iteration outnumbered, it doesn't seem to be needed to tell stories about that specific interpretation.)

ZariusTwo
12-07-2016, 03:25 PM
So I was reading Clone Conspiracy#3 today, and besides the one big revelation, there was another moment that raised an eyebrow

When Spider-Gwen tells Peter he's definitely nothing like the Peter of her own world, Peter says people have told him the same thing about him and this world

You'd think this was just some coy meta-commentary on people dissatisfied with present day continuity, but there's been several hints in other Marvel books since Secret Wars alluding to nothing being quite what it seems about reality.

Might be nothing, but I've been keeping score of all the little clues this year and this might be indeed another one.

ZariusTwo
12-08-2016, 10:26 AM
Lettered preview for Renew Your Vows#2 featuring MJ kicking some ass and sharing her own thoughts on life in general with the reader

http://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-2-exclusive-preview/

WebLurker
12-08-2016, 11:33 AM
Lettered preview for Renew Your Vows#2 featuring MJ kicking some ass and sharing her own thoughts on life in general with the reader

http://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-man-renew-your-vows-2-exclusive-preview/

While MJ doing superhero missions solo has got me really curious about the nuts and bolts of the family's teamwork arrangement (is there any coordination, since MJ and Peter are sharing the same power set, did she undergo any practice?, etc.), the scene works pretty well for character setup.

ZariusTwo
12-08-2016, 12:01 PM
While MJ doing superhero missions solo has got me really curious about the nuts and bolts of the family's teamwork arrangement (is there any coordination, since MJ and Peter are sharing the same power set, did she undergo any practice?, etc.), the scene works pretty well for character setup.

See, this is why maintaining some continuity from 616 would be a good idea...in the issues before Civil War, MJ got some training from Captain America himself. I really hope in being selective with his world building Conway at least has it so Peter and MJ did live in Avengers Tower and she had that training.

WebLurker
12-08-2016, 06:06 PM
See, this is why maintaining some continuity from 616 would be a good idea...in the issues before Civil War, MJ got some training from Captain America himself. I really hope in being selective with his world building Conway at least has it so Peter and MJ did live in Avengers Tower and she had that training.

Conversely, I suppose Peter could've taught her a few things. I guess we'll have to see if and how that's addressed.

(Frankly, I think it's a higher priority to explain what did and did not happen in the original RYV miniseries and create a definitive version of that than to integrate 616 stuff into the mix, but I could be wrong about that.)

ZariusTwo
12-09-2016, 07:20 AM
Conversely, I suppose Peter could've taught her a few things. I guess we'll have to see if and how that's addressed.

(Frankly, I think it's a higher priority to explain what did and did not happen in the original RYV miniseries and create a definitive version of that than to integrate 616 stuff into the mix, but I could be wrong about that.)

Maybe it's because MC2 made use of, at the time, "modern" 616 history to form part of it's narrative in addition to the classic backstory that I just want this to be the same way...again, I know you don't particularly care for 616 because of all the crap it's been subjected to, but I loved the JMS era and would want that to somewhat count. It's not a deal breaker for me if it does'nt count though. The jigsaw pieces are there, I'm just trying to make sense of them until new explanations are provided.

I've often thought one good idea for continuity divergence would be to have had MJ accept Peter's first marriage proposal back in the 70s, rather than reject it out of fear of commitment at the time.

WebLurker
12-09-2016, 12:54 PM
Maybe it's because MC2 made use of, at the time, "modern" 616 history to form part of it's narrative in addition to the classic backstory that I just want this to be the same way...again,

I wouldn't blame you for that. If the 616 comics were the first ones I encountered, instead of the Ultimate ones, I'd probably feel the same way. In fact, I'd like to see "Kraven's Last Hunt" and the preceding issues be part of the RYV world. I guess my biases is that the current setting of the RYV comics (street-level, blue-collar Spider-Man, Peter and Mary Jane as a couple, etc.), is pretty much where I tend to think of the story beginning, so I don't need to see how we got there.

Conversely, if Conway pinpointed an exact divergence point, I wouldn't complain, either. The pros of establishing that some of the 616 comics also happened in the RYV world also means that that series retroactively obtained more issues.

I know you don't particularly care for 616 because of all the crap it's been subjected to, but I loved the JMS era and would want that to somewhat count.

Personally, I wouldn't mind reading some of the stuff between the marriage issue and OMD 616 comics (a good story is a good story regardless of how it stacks up canonically speaking) and JMS's material would be on that list, given that I've heard generally good things about it.

It's not a deal breaker for me if it does'nt count though. The jigsaw pieces are there, I'm just trying to make sense of them until new explanations are provided.

Makes sense. Given how messy the RYV background is, some clarifications would be welcome.

I've often thought one good idea for continuity divergence would be to have had MJ accept Peter's first marriage proposal back in the 70s, rather than reject it out of fear of commitment at the time.

What about that point would make it a good storytelling vehicle to turn left, so to speak?

ZariusTwo
12-09-2016, 01:24 PM
Here's the top ten for November sales overall. Marvel steadily starting to regain ground now, with Rebirth represented only by the Bat-Books. Good news for Renew Your Vows also, as both it and Venom easily trounce Clone Conspiracy b.s to take some top spots.

1. BATMAN #10 (DC) 2. BATMAN #11 (DC)
3. CIVIL WAR II #7 (MAR)
4. ALL STAR BATMAN #4 (DC)
5. INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1 (MAR)
6. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #1 (MAR)
7. BATMAN ANNUAL #1 (DC)
8. VENOM #1 (MAR)
9. THE WALKING DEAD #160 (MR) (IMA)
10. IVX #0 (MAR)

http://www.newsarama.com/32311-batman-marvel-rule-surprisingly-down-november-2016-comic-book-sales.html

What about that point would make it a good storytelling vehicle to turn left, so to speak?

Generally because of the storyline circumstances at the time. Shortly after MJ rejected Peter's proposal, dropped out of college and moved away to pursue other interests, Aunt May "died" for a short time...with it being eventually revealed she'd just been kidnapped and used in a scheme by Mysterio and Uncle Ben's killer who were after something in her possession that was worth something. This story culminates in ASM#200 with Peter confronting the Burgler one more time, with the Burgler dying at the conclusion, and Peter reunites with Aunt May.

I was thinking that if MJ had married Peter around this time instead of leaving, one idea would have been to have May die for real instead of just being a prisoner, and Peter would confront the Burgler over that, but would refrain from exacting revenge even if he still caused his death (the Burgler died from a shock heart attack when Peter revealed his identity to him) and Peter would then just move on from that with MJ and have Annie.

WebLurker
12-10-2016, 12:40 AM
Here's the top ten for November sales overall. Marvel steadily starting to regain ground now, with Rebirth represented only by the Bat-Books. Good news for Renew Your Vows also, as both it and Venom easily trounce Clone Conspiracy b.s to take some top spots.

1. BATMAN #10 (DC) 2. BATMAN #11 (DC)
3. CIVIL WAR II #7 (MAR)
4. ALL STAR BATMAN #4 (DC)
5. INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1 (MAR)
6. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #1 (MAR)
7. BATMAN ANNUAL #1 (DC)
8. VENOM #1 (MAR)
9. THE WALKING DEAD #160 (MR) (IMA)
10. IVX #0 (MAR)

http://www.newsarama.com/32311-batman-marvel-rule-surprisingly-down-november-2016-comic-book-sales.html

Okay, nice to see RYV have a solid start. Hopefully it can keep it up long-term, esp. when the "Clone" story ends.

Generally because of the storyline circumstances at the time. Shortly after MJ rejected Peter's proposal, dropped out of college and moved away to pursue other interests, Aunt May "died" for a short time...with it being eventually revealed she'd just been kidnapped and used in a scheme by Mysterio and Uncle Ben's killer who were after something in her possession that was worth something. This story culminates in ASM#200 with Peter confronting the Burgler one more time, with the Burgler dying at the conclusion, and Peter reunites with Aunt May.

I was thinking that if MJ had married Peter around this time instead of leaving, one idea would have been to have May die for real instead of just being a prisoner, and Peter would confront the Burgler over that, but would refrain from exacting revenge even if he still caused his death (the Burgler died from a shock heart attack when Peter revealed his identity to him) and Peter would then just move on from that with MJ and have Annie.

Okay.

I didn't know that they toyed with the idea of May dying before the '90s. I did recall hearing somewhere that Spider-Man found Dennis Carradine again, but didn't know the details.

Not sure I would've thought that to be a good point to change the proposal answer, but then, I did see an essay speculating that both Peter and MJ weren't ready for marriage then, specifically pointing out that Peter hadn't told MJ about his superhero career and that MJ knew he was lying to her about that.

While that may just be fan speculation, I did see a bit of the comic where MJ outright told Peter she knew his secret. As I recall, she was very hurt by the admission, feeling that he didn't trust her and still saw her as the shallow person she'd presented herself as in the past. At any rate, it does make you wonder if they would've had a rockier start had they tried to make a go of it at that point?

ZariusTwo
12-10-2016, 05:27 AM
While that may just be fan speculation, I did see a bit of the comic where MJ outright told Peter she knew his secret. As I recall, she was very hurt by the admission, feeling that he didn't trust her and still saw her as the shallow person she'd presented herself as in the past. At any rate, it does make you wonder if they would've had a rockier start had they tried to make a go of it at that point?

Yeah, apparently it was very much a rockier path in the newspaper strip...MJ did'nt know Peter was Spider-Man in that until he confessed his identity to her a year before the marriage, and MJ wasn't sure if she wanted to be tied down with a "freak". Harsh.

ZariusTwo
12-11-2016, 11:50 AM
Here's the overall top 100 for the month of November

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/11/100-top-selling-comics-and-graphic-novels-of-november-2016-paper-comics-for-boys-and-girls/

So Renew Your Vows is the only Peter Parker-led Spider-Man title in the overall top TWENTY, let alone top TEN. That does not bode well for the main book, the Clone Conspiracy and it's tie-ins have had to settle for 23rd and 28th place

WebLurker
12-11-2016, 10:55 PM
Here's the overall top 100 for the month of November

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/11/100-top-selling-comics-and-graphic-novels-of-november-2016-paper-comics-for-boys-and-girls/

So Renew Your Vows is the only Peter Parker-led Spider-Man title in the overall top TWENTY, let alone top TEN. That does not bode well for the main book, the Clone Conspiracy and it's tie-ins have had to settle for 23rd and 28th place

Wow, that's a bit of a drop from 11th place last month. Wonder if Slott will turn it around or if Clone Conspiracy was always DOA.

Anyways, nice to see RYV have a solid start, esp. since it was trailing being the Nov. Clone Conspiracy issues before.

ZariusTwo
12-14-2016, 11:25 AM
Just read the rest of the latest RYV. Great stuff

The issue spends most of the time focusing on Mary Jane as she takes Annie web-swinging in order to get her to school, tries to organise a social function with the supporting cast, and deals with a hefty raise in Rent from their landlord. Things start to turn around for her when she finds several glowing comments on her fashion blog by a former editor for Vogue turned prolific fashion columnist. MJ then catches wind of Peter's tussle with the Moleoids and suits up to help him. Peter lets it slip that sharing the powers is weakening him. The two of them rescue Annie and tell her to go back to school, but are captured by a very crazy and slightly irreverent Mole Man.

Normie Osborn, with the help of The Mayor, begins making arrangements to have technology cleared from the remains of Regent's command centre.

It's revealed here that Annie is eight years old and Peter became more over-protective of the family after something happened to Aunt May.

A few more shots are fired at 616 MJ too, "I don't brood and I don't hold grudges")

WebLurker
12-15-2016, 12:52 AM
Got my copy, too.

While the main story (fighting Mole Man) wasn't advanced much, I did like that we know know more of his plans: he wants to use Regent's tech to usher in a new era of some kind

Spending most of the time focusing on Mary Jane herself and her new lot in line was a smart call. I think I had a better understanding of the series with the new info and insights provided. Also like how Conway used similar scenes to show how MJ and Peter are alike and different. And as far as her new codename goes, hats off to the fact that it's something unique but perfectly in line with the spider motif.

A few more shots are fired at 616 MJ too, "I don't brood and I don't hold grudges")

Thar flew over my head.

ZariusTwo
12-15-2016, 04:49 AM
Thar flew over my head.

It's a trait 616 MJ has been known to have...being the worrying wife in the 90s and then uncharacteristically holding Peter's superheroics against him in post-OMD continuity

It makes sense if you follow mainline stuff.

WebLurker
12-15-2016, 10:13 AM
It's a trait 616 MJ has been known to have...being the worrying wife in the 90s and then uncharacteristically holding Peter's superheroics against him in post-OMD continuity

It makes sense if you follow mainline stuff.

Okay. I suppose the former could make some degree of sense on occasion. I've heard of the latter, actually. As far as that goes, it's a load of garbage to be sure, but what'd you expect from material that's supposed to support the OMD status quo and claim that it fixed the franchise?

(I have heard that RYV has taken a few jabs at the main ASM title. Conway confirmed that Peter's dismissal of the idea of a lab job was intended as a nod to Slott's comics, but, since Conway has been generally complimentary to Slott in interviews, I'm not sure if it's intended as criticism.

ZariusTwo
12-21-2016, 01:51 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0OMrw2WIAAWeLM.jpg:large

ZariusTwo
12-30-2016, 04:04 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0zUI-pXUAAOrmJ.jpg

ZariusTwo
12-31-2016, 05:34 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1Ca3jrXUAAsnCj.jpg

MJ lets her hair down

WebLurker
12-31-2016, 07:39 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0zUI-pXUAAOrmJ.jpg

Given the stalactites, I'm guessing that this scene is probably somewhere in the Mole Man story. Maybe the fourth issue, since the next one has Annie as the main perspective character?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1Ca3jrXUAAsnCj.jpg

MJ lets her hair down

Huh. Looks a like a part of a cover.

ZariusTwo
01-01-2017, 04:23 AM
Given the stalactites, I'm guessing that this scene is probably somewhere in the Mole Man story. Maybe the fourth issue, since the next one has Annie as the main perspective character?.

Apparently Peter and MJ have a big fight in the issue Stegman is currently drawing, it's possible the scene I posted is the aftermath of their argument and they're making up.

WebLurker
01-01-2017, 11:40 AM
Apparently Peter and MJ have a big fight in the issue Stegman is currently drawing, it's possible the scene I posted is the aftermath of their argument and they're making up.

That would make sense.