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View Full Version : Realistically speaking, what will Paramount do with TMNT now?


neatoman
07-27-2016, 12:12 PM
OK, it's been almost two months now (53 days counted by BOM) and OotS has made less than half of what the last one made domestically, the foreign gross is a little hard to tell at this point but it looks like it's going to to be roughly half or less as well. And most amusing of all, not only did the previous movie open stronger, it was doing almost ten times better by the seventh week.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?view=basic&id=newtmnt.htm

So realistically, this means there simply won't be a third one, the first barely made enough money to justify a sequel and said sequel both failed opening weekend and dropped in ticket sales much quicker. So the question is, what's the most realistic future for TMNT movies? A complete abandonment of the IP? A series of straight to digital kids' movies?

I also find it kind amusing that despite what people here and on the internet in general might make you think, the first of the PD TMNT movies would actually be the more popular of the two according to the box office numbers. I mean seriously, more than twice as much in total and ten times better weekly after two months? The gap is huge.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-27-2016, 12:17 PM
OK, it's been almost two months now (53 days counted by BOM) and OotS has made less than half of what the last one made domestically, the foreign gross is a little hard to tell at this point but it looks like it's going to to be roughly half or less as well. And most amusing of all, not only did the previous movie open stronger, it was doing almost ten times better by the seventh week.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?view=basic&id=newtmnt.htm

So realistically, this means there simply won't be a third one, the first barely made enough money to justify a sequel and said sequel failed both failed opening weekend and dropped in ticket sales much quicker. So the question is, what's the most realistic future for TMNT movies? A complete abandonment of the IP? A series of straight to digital kids' movies?

I also find it kind amusing that despite what people here and on the internet in general might make you think, the first of the PD TMNT movies would actually be the more popular of the two according to the box office numbers. I mean seriously, more than twice as much in total and ten times better weekly after two months? The gap is huge.

I still feel like Bay and PD will try a TMNT/Transformers crossover, due to Transformers being HUGELY successful in the box office.

Andrew NDB
07-27-2016, 12:20 PM
No matter what they do it's going in the freezer for a good number of years first. Deep under the ice. Where it will wait...

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/the-thing-spaceship-1982.jpg

CyberCubed
07-27-2016, 12:24 PM
Everytime a TMNT movie line ends, its a long gap between the next one:

TMNT III came out in 1993....TMNT 4 came out in 2007. That was a 14 year gap.

TMNT 4 came out in 2007...the Paramount TMNT came out in 2014....that's a 7 year gap.

I expect a 7+ year gap if there's no TMNT III in this movie universe.

Powder
07-27-2016, 12:26 PM
The last time a live action iteration failed we were able to enjoy new comics from Image.

Let's see that trend continue. :)

d_osborn
07-27-2016, 12:28 PM
Far-fetched, but here's what I'm hoping. Viacom sees the stark difference (creative, financial, etc.) between Sony's in-house SPIDER-MAN movies and what is lovingly produced by Marvel. They recognize that a hugely popular IP has potential, even though previous iterations weren't quite as successful as they had hoped.

IndigoErth
07-27-2016, 12:37 PM
I also find it kind amusing that despite what people here and on the internet in general might make you think, the first of the PD TMNT movies would actually be the more popular of the two according to the box office numbers. I mean seriously, more than twice as much in total and ten times better weekly after two months? The gap is huge.
To be fair, the first had plenty of mystery to draw people in as no one really quite knew what to expect. Esp the casual nostalgic viewer who wasn't hunting for every bit of info like us and went in with far less information.

The second, well... No more mystery, people had an idea of what to expect and apparently got over the nostalgic kick after one film. Which is a shame, considering the aspects that plenty do think it improved on.



As for what they do now... hard to tell, I guess. I suppose it could depend partly on any determination to round it out with a third and who's funding it... if anyone.

There was articles the other day about that China's Alibaba Group and another company planning on creating a fund to invest in tv and film. Though who knows if that will only be local or include anything from Hollywood. And would they still see another TMNT film as viable or not... (Wonder if they could pull some weight and force it to acquire new writers and get Bay to back off.)

Safe to say though I'm sure many will at least prob keep an ear out for a while for any slight hint at a possible third. Though I guess were it to happen it would probably have to be driven by those who simply want it to happen, while if certain people who are only interested in its earnings pass on being involved...that would be just fine.

TigerClaw
07-27-2016, 01:07 PM
Far-fetched, but here's what I'm hoping. Viacom sees the stark difference (creative, financial, etc.) between Sony's in-house SPIDER-MAN movies and what is lovingly produced by Marvel. They recognize that a hugely popular IP has potential, even though previous iterations weren't quite as successful as they had hoped.
Maybe if they hired different writers, and Michael Bay letting the writer and director a lot more creative control this time, the problem is Michael Bay is a bit of a control freak since he owns the studio that produced the films.

d_osborn
07-27-2016, 01:29 PM
Maybe if they hired different writers, and Michael Bay letting the writer and director a lot more creative control this time, the problem is Michael Bay is a bit of a control freak since he owns the studio that produced the films.
Does anyone know the details of the deal with Paramount and Platinum Dunes? It's possible PD won't even be involved in future movies.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 01:35 PM
Does anyone know the details of the deal with Paramount and Platinum Dunes? It's possible PD won't even be involved in future movies.

What future movies? lol. It's over, can't you feel it? The bubble burst man.
CBM's are plummeting as the summer BO continues to underperform.

nah nhanha na... na na na na...hey hey hey...

n6RoOwSKI7M

IndigoErth
07-27-2016, 01:51 PM
Does anyone know the details of the deal with Paramount and Platinum Dunes? It's possible PD won't even be involved in future movies.
Who else does Viacom/Paramount have ties with? Looks like maybe DreamWorks? (Or is Paramount able to just try to get anyone they want? I'm not sure how that part works.)

neatoman
07-27-2016, 02:06 PM
Does anyone know the details of the deal with Paramount and Platinum Dunes? It's possible PD won't even be involved in future movies.

Who knows? I'm assuming Paramount just sort trusted Platinum Dunes with TMNT but I don't think there's some kind of exclusive deal, at most I think Platinum Dunes were just allowed to use TMNT for as long as it was financially sound. Now that it's pretty much assumed that the movie lost money, Paramount probably won't trust Platinum Dunes with a third chance.

It's worth noting that the TMNT movies were the highest budgeted movies Platinum Dunes ever produced, the third highest budget was A Nightmare on Elm Street at $35 million, which makes you understand why most of their movies are technically financial successes. Giving them a budget of over $120 million was probably overestimating their abilities.

Andrew NDB
07-27-2016, 02:25 PM
Who knows? I'm assuming Paramount just sort trusted Platinum Dunes with TMNT but I don't think there's some kind of exclusive deal, at most I think Platinum Dunes were just allowed to use TMNT for as long as it was financially sound. Now that it's pretty much assumed that the movie lost money, Paramount probably won't trust Platinum Dunes with a third chance.

There is no possible way there would be a deal in place forcing Viacom/Paramount to use Platinum Dunes for any and all future movies. That would be insane, the incentives for Viacom/Paramount to sign such a deal equating to absolute zero.

neatoman
07-27-2016, 02:37 PM
There is no possible way there would be a deal in place forcing Viacom/Paramount to use Platinum Dunes for any and all future movies. That would be insane, the incentives for Viacom/Paramount to sign such a deal equating to absolute zero.

Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

d_osborn
07-27-2016, 03:09 PM
What future movies? lol. It's over, can't you feel it? The bubble burst man.
CBM's are plummeting as the summer BO continues to underperform.

As long as nerd franchises are hot, they'll be exploited. I absolutely don't see the current PD TMNT continuing, though. If the franchise isn't completely dead, if merch continues to sell, I can definitely see Viacom trying something new in a few years.

It's a familiar, well-known title that Viacom owns outright, and we live in a franchised, reboot world. TMNT was dormant so long because Laird held it tightly.

There is no possible way there would be a deal in place forcing Viacom/Paramount to use Platinum Dunes for any and all future movies. That would be insane, the incentives for Viacom/Paramount to sign such a deal equating to absolute zero.
It could easily be a handshake deal to keep Bay happy at Paramount. He's raking in the dough left and right for them.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 03:51 PM
As long as nerd franchises are hot, they'll be exploited. I absolutely don't see the current PD TMNT continuing, though. If the franchise isn't completely dead, if merch continues to sell, I can definitely see Viacom trying something new in a few years.

It's a familiar, well-known title that Viacom owns outright, and we live in a franchised, reboot world. TMNT was dormant so long because Laird held it tightly.


It could easily be a handshake deal to keep Bay happy at Paramount. He's raking in the dough left and right for them.

Dude, we both know the tide is turning. Here's the thing; I WANT that TMNT movie of my dreams, I really really really do.

The market is cooling, despite what we want.

Nobody wants to admit it yet, but Bay had his way with the franchise, now it's turned out full of scabies, chlamydia and hooked on meth.

It's over man! The reign of Pokemon, and the return of Spice girls is imminent.
More to the point, the genre took big hits this year in BVS and the general saturation of the market.

Forecast? Cheap, little low risk films will return, probably fronted by youtube sensations and helmed by nobodies. Film's been dying for a while, but Netflix and Amazon are killing it.

d_osborn
07-27-2016, 05:24 PM
Dude, we both know the tide is turning. Here's the thing; I WANT that TMNT movie of my dreams, I really really really do.

The market is cooling, despite what we want.

Nobody wants to admit it yet, but Bay had his way with the franchise, now it's turned out full of scabies, chlamydia and hooked on meth.

It's over man! The reign of Pokemon, and the return of Spice girls is imminent.
More to the point, the genre took big hits this year in BVS and the general saturation of the market.

Forecast? Cheap, little low risk films will return, probably fronted by youtube sensations and helmed by nobodies. Film's been dying for a while, but Netflix and Amazon are killing it.
I can't argue film vs streaming, or that CBMs are pointing downward. I hardly think we've seen the last of the modern wave of franchise exploitation, though. If the Viacom bean counters think they can squeeze profit from the IP, I have no doubt that they'll try. What form? No clue.

Personally, I would be all over a streaming series. Blow the FX load on the TMNT faces mapped on physical suits, let everything else be smaller scale stories. Give the kids the cartoon, give older fans something Daredevil-esque.

The next few years will be interesting. ...or not!

For the record, I will be super pissed if we went through a two-picture franchise reboot in what could easily be described as the golden age of nostalgic merch WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL RELEASE OF THE 1990 MOVIE SCORE!!!!!!!!

Sabacooza
07-27-2016, 06:18 PM
For the record, I will be super pissed if we went through a two-picture franchise reboot in what could easily be described as the golden age of nostalgic merch WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL RELEASE OF THE 1990 MOVIE SCORE!!!!!!!!Why not go all the way and also have a deluxe edition blueray with all the bells and whistles. That's what I really want to see. It's a sin to not release all the deleted scenes and behind the scenes making of stuff. Do it as a bundle.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 07:40 PM
I can't argue film vs streaming, or that CBMs are pointing downward. I hardly think we've seen the last of the modern wave of franchise exploitation, though. If the Viacom bean counters think they can squeeze profit from the IP, I have no doubt that they'll try. What form? No clue.

Personally, I would be all over a streaming series. Blow the FX load on the TMNT faces mapped on physical suits, let everything else be smaller scale stories. Give the kids the cartoon, give older fans something Daredevil-esque.

The next few years will be interesting. ...or not!

For the record, I will be super pissed if we went through a two-picture franchise reboot in what could easily be described as the golden age of nostalgic merch WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL RELEASE OF THE 1990 MOVIE SCORE!!!!!!!!

Exactly! We're totally on the same page.

Why not go all the way and also have a deluxe edition blueray with all the bells and whistles. That's what I really want to see. It's a sin to not release all the deleted scenes and behind the scenes making of stuff. Do it as a bundle.

Isn't the hold up some sort of legal battle amongst the director and studio of the 1990 film?
I don't think it's for a lack of material, but a lot of old grudges surrounding money owed...

snake
07-27-2016, 07:49 PM
No more movies for a long, long time.

d_osborn
07-27-2016, 08:18 PM
Isn't the hold up some sort of legal battle amongst the director and studio of the 1990 film?
I don't think it's for a lack of material, but a lot of old grudges surrounding money owed...
Holy hell-- I knew the writers were suing, but I had no idea Barron and the producers got involved.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-lawsuit-809134

Barron's VHS workprint of TMNT 90 is one of my nerd white whales, right behind Dan Aykroyd's original Ghostbusters treatment.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 08:43 PM
Holy hell-- I knew the writers were suing, but I had no idea Barron and the producers got involved.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-lawsuit-809134

Barron's VHS workprint of TMNT 90 is one of my nerd white whales, right behind Dan Aykroyd's original Ghostbusters treatment.

Anytime I read folks here complaining that we haven't received a proper Blu-ray, I wonder why the lawsuit isn't discussed.

If we're the fans we claim to be, shouldn't we be supporting Barron et al. in their fight? Shouldn't we be more vocal?

Panda_Kahn_fan
07-27-2016, 08:48 PM
If TMNT were failing all around, I would agree with all of you... but...

-The Nick Cartoon, though no longer as big as it used to be, is still popular and profitable.

-The playmates toys and other TMNT merchandise, whose sales are very very strong, is profitable.

-while to a lesser extent, the IDW comics, and new tie-in board game (along with TMNT's expansion into the world of Heroclix) is popular and profitable in the smaller scale of the collector/nerd market.

-The first PD movie was THE most profitable Nickelodeon branded movie EVER. And it was profitable comapred to the second one.

-This is Nick and Viacom's ONLY relevant superhero franchise. That- again- has proven profitable recently.

I don't see them giving up and putting it on ice when only one pillar of the entire IP isn't holding up. I think they will try again, without platinum dunes this time. if they think there is even a small chance of money being made, there will be a reboot or imaging or movie of some kind, sooner than people think.

d_osborn
07-27-2016, 09:00 PM
If we're the fans we claim to be, shouldn't we be supporting Barron et al. in their fight? Shouldn't we be more vocal?
No shortage of support for the filmmakers here. It was pretty recent, too-- about a year ago. I'm shocked that news slipped by me. I figured it would have made a bigger splash with the fanbase.

When the Siegel/Shuster estates sued WB for Superman ownership, a bunch of early draft movie scripts were submitted as evidence, and made public. Might be something to keep our collective eyes out for if this thing ever blows up bigger and goes to trial.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 09:05 PM
No shortage of support for the filmmakers here. It was pretty recent, too-- about a year ago. I'm shocked that news slipped by me. I figured it would have made a bigger splash with the fanbase.

When the Siegel/Shuster estates sued WB for Superman ownership, a bunch of early draft movie scripts were submitted as evidence, and made public. Might be something to keep our collective eyes out for if this thing ever blows up bigger and goes to trial.

This is where Superman died for real. The undies and boots and belt went because of that suit.

I know you're up on it, I meant others here. Barron gave us the best cinematic experience we've ever had, but "Screw those guys, I can't have my fancy BD".

Same happened with the Siegel/Shuster estates. The same is happening in this election.

We before me. It's easy to say; even easier to forget.

Sabacooza
07-27-2016, 09:19 PM
Anytime I read folks here complaining that we haven't received a proper Blu-ray, I wonder why the lawsuit isn't discussed.

If we're the fans we claim to be, shouldn't we be supporting Barron et al. in their fight? Shouldn't we be more vocal?Sorry. I wasn't aware of it.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 10:00 PM
Sorry. I wasn't aware of it.

Hey, wasn't being accusatory - It just strikes me that we never help, myself included.

Obama got to me tonight...

Sabacooza
07-27-2016, 10:22 PM
Hey, wasn't being accusatory - It just strikes me that we never help, myself included.

Obama got to me tonight...No problem. I just wish I knew what we could actually do to help out.

Roseangelo
07-27-2016, 10:28 PM
This movie lasted three weeks at my local theater. THREE WEEKS. I found that to be hilarious.

Commenter 42
07-27-2016, 10:45 PM
We're living in the end times of theatrical distribution. (http://variety.com/2016/film/features/box-office-decline-summer-blockbusters-the-bfg-1201822322/)

8k will be the nail in the coffin, if it isn't already dead.
If Viacom has an intelligence, they'll start working on a TMNT VR experience, and funnel all their money in that direction.

We all grew up wanting to be our heroes. Passively watching is no longer the most gratifying experience possible. Of course, I'm biased, but what eves.

d_osborn
07-28-2016, 08:12 AM
We're living in the end times of theatrical distribution.

Interesting read. It'll be bittersweet, but I'm fine seeing it go. The experience is, for the most part, utter garbage. The industry should have swayed towards a higher-end experience, like the Arclight or Alama Drafthouse, but instead made going to the movies like visiting the DVD section in Walmart.

My local theater doesn't even smell like popcorn! They cook that stuff weeks in advance and store it.

Bring on better streaming releases, bring on lower-budget projects with more creativity, bring on a better independent release channel. Finance ten low-budget projects instead of a single $100mm movie. Pro-level gear is cheap and accessible. People can learn processes in their bedrooms instead of going into six-figures of debt in film school.

Zak The Neutrino
07-28-2016, 08:54 AM
This movie lasted three weeks at my local theater. THREE WEEKS. I found that to be hilarious.

It's already gone from the cheap seats theaters here too. My son wanted to see it last week for his birthday and it wasn't offered anywhere.

snake
07-28-2016, 02:02 PM
We're living in the end times of theatrical distribution. (http://variety.com/2016/film/features/box-office-decline-summer-blockbusters-the-bfg-1201822322/)

8k will be the nail in the coffin, if it isn't already dead.
If Viacom has an intelligence, they'll start working on a TMNT VR experience, and funnel all their money in that direction.

We all grew up wanting to be our heroes. Passively watching is no longer the most gratifying experience possible. Of course, I'm biased, but what eves.
Nah, hollywood just keeps churning out boring sh*t, bad sh*t, and cape sh*t. That's why ticket sales are falling. Oh boy $20 for more of the same? Yes please!

There needs to be some major changes within the industry

Krutch
07-28-2016, 05:24 PM
We're living in the end times of theatrical distribution. (http://variety.com/2016/film/features/box-office-decline-summer-blockbusters-the-bfg-1201822322/)Interesting read, but I don't buy it. Theatres aren't going anywhere. Theatrical distribution isn't going anywhere. Going to see a movie, truthfully, is more about filling your evening than it is the movie itself. You take dates on a movie. You go to the movies with buddies. You go see a movie sooner than later if it interests you so you can avoid spoilers and partake in water cooler conversations at work. It's something to do, and no matter how great your sound system is or how big your TV is, it isn't going to rival what they put in theatres.

I think we'll definitely see a big shift in how many of the same kind of movies come out in the same year though. The selection of movies will change for the better but movie going will stay the same.

LeotheLateBloomer
07-28-2016, 06:16 PM
This is Nick and Viacom's ONLY relevant superhero franchise.

I don't see them giving up and putting it on ice when only one pillar of the entire IP isn't holding up. I think they will try again, without platinum dunes this time. if they think there is even a small chance of money being made, there will be a reboot or imaging or movie of some kind, sooner than people think.

Except they're NOT superheroes. If you mean comic book franchise, then yes.

I'm content with this as long as it's nothing like the PD junk.

TMNT is cooler than MOTU
07-28-2016, 06:43 PM
I say let the franchise go dormant for 4-5 years then reboot it without Platinum Dunes ****ing everything up. They can likely slash the budget significantly if they go with practical suits and only use CGI for their facial expressions and really elaborate stunts/action sequences.

thundermaster612
07-28-2016, 06:46 PM
I think that there will be a 3rd movie but not for a while. It made 250 Million less than the last one yes but over time there could be another movie just either less turtle-centric or the other option which I forgot.
Hey, I just got back from 2 hours of martial arts. I'm tired.

Zak The Neutrino
07-28-2016, 06:49 PM
Viacom needs to hire Bad Robot to reboot this.

Commenter 42
07-28-2016, 07:09 PM
Interesting read, but I don't buy it. Theatres aren't going anywhere. Theatrical distribution isn't going anywhere. Going to see a movie, truthfully, is more about filling your evening than it is the movie itself. You take dates on a movie. You go to the movies with buddies. You go see a movie sooner than later if it interests you so you can avoid spoilers and partake in water cooler conversations at work. It's something to do, and no matter how great your sound system is or how big your TV is, it isn't going to rival what they put in theatres.

I think we'll definitely see a big shift in how many of the same kind of movies come out in the same year though. The selection of movies will change for the better but movie going will stay the same.

^^Today we do. My dad used to sit around the radio with his family.^^

Guess what we don't do anymore.

Things change :lol:

thundermaster612
08-12-2016, 09:52 AM
People these days are saying every franchise is dying either though they aren't. Its just the fanbase being retarded. People are saying TMNT is gonna die, people are saying Ninjago is gonna die, people are saying EVERY-****ING-THING IS GONNA DIE!. Is there nowhere I can go now that has no idiots going insane for literally no reason? I might just go on the deep web now and have myself get slaughtered in my sleep.

IndigoErth
08-12-2016, 11:30 AM
And yet, ironically, the things we love that people are convinced are going to die often have stories that has our/people's own lives at stake. As a species, we are incredibly obsessed with the demise of ourselves or other people and things we love. (And popular media is always full of it, from news stations to blockbuster films.) I think all of humanity needs a therapist.

Leolead
08-15-2016, 04:59 AM
^^Today we do. My dad used to sit around the radio with his family.^^

Guess what we don't do anymore.

Things change :lol:
Just stop, dude. You're the only wanting it to happen. Theatrical distribution isn't going anywhere, period.

Galactus
08-15-2016, 12:43 PM
People these days are saying every franchise is dying either though they aren't. Its just the fanbase being retarded. People are saying TMNT is gonna die, people are saying Ninjago is gonna die, people are saying EVERY-****ING-THING IS GONNA DIE!. Is there nowhere I can go now that has no idiots going insane for literally no reason? I might just go on the deep web now and have myself get slaughtered in my sleep.

It wouldn't be the first time the franchise has gone away.

Difference is in the late 90s TMNT was with a company that had a personal and commercial interest in a revival and when Laird sold the franchise the 4kids era ended on a high with Turtles Forever, a live action movie deal had been struck and while there was some trepidation on the sale to Nickledeon most felt assured of the franchise future not to mention the Fred Wolf fans miffed at Laird's stewardship felt it was going to be a revival for every concept from that show.

This time it's very different. This era of TMNT is coming to an end with a huge critical and commercial flop and the much hyped video game that some pinned their hopes on doing to TMNT what the Arkham games did to Batman also turned out to be a dud. Also the one direction everyone was certain would be a guaranteed hit turned out to be not hold people's interest as much as they thought.

The movie series is dead for the forseeable future. People have to accept that Platinum Dunes TMNT is gone and while I'd live for them to reboot it as soon as possible realistically I think the Bay produced movies have soured the mobie going public on the brand that I can see it might not be seen as worth the risk to for Paramount or Viacom.

Andrew NDB
08-15-2016, 12:52 PM
This time it's very different. This era of TMNT is coming to an end with a huge critical and commercial flop and the much hyped video game that some pinned their hopes on doing to TMNT what the Arkham games did to Batman also turned out to be a dud. Also the one direction everyone was certain would be a guaranteed hit turned out to be not hold people's interest as much as they thought.

The Nick cartoon's ratings have pretty much flatlined, too. Not sure on toy sales.

CyberCubed
08-15-2016, 01:00 PM
IDW TMNT is probably going to last 10 years or more. Can you believe we're already 5 years into the IDW run since it started back in 2011? I can easily see us hitting #100.

Bry
08-15-2016, 03:55 PM
The movie series is dead for the forseeable future. People have to accept that Platinum Dunes TMNT is gone and while I'd live for them to reboot it as soon as possible realistically I think the Bay produced movies have soured the mobie going public on the brand that I can see it might not be seen as worth the risk to for Paramount or Viacom.

I agree that the movies are probably taking a much-needed time-out. I'm hopeful that they'll go the opposite direction when enough time has passed and they give it another shot, though -- keep the budget as low as possible and get creative with the practical effects. Giving TMNT the Transformers treatment was always a stupid idea.