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View Full Version : Is Bishop actually on the side of the Kraang?


victory_angel
07-27-2016, 08:55 PM
Anyone who knows of the 2k3 series knows Bishop was the founder and head of the of the EPF. While he isn't evil, he is by no means a friend of the Turtles because he is not afraid of sacrificing innocent people in order to achieve a goal. Especially if said innocent people were a quartet of mutant turtles and a mutant rat that very few people were likely to miss.

In fact, he more often exploited the Turtles for his plans more often then he tried to eliminate them.

But with the nick show, however, Bishop is the exact opposite of what he was in the 2k3. That he's not only an Alien but a benevolent one who the Turtles at least can consider an ally.

However last September, I had asked this...

I liked this incarnations view on Bishop. It's interesting he's an alien this time around, when he was originally a government agent who hated Aliens. And thus began the EPF to combat alien threats. Since Bishop is an utrom, will Dirk Savage be closer to Bishop's 2k3 role?

And Auman answered with

Nope, you'll just have to see if Bishop comes back 😉

While I was pacing about in my room today, I was thinking about Bishop and something occurred to me that Bishop has a couple of interesting moments in the show. The first is in his debut episode where Bishop and Kraang Sub Prime meet.

There is this interesting exchange:

KSP: Bishop?! You filthy, swindeling, Kraang!

Bishop: I am an Utrom, just as you once were Brother! Or shall I call you Kraang Sub Sub-Prime.

KSP: Don't call me that! You know I hate that!


And later in War for Dimension X

Kraang Sub-Prime says this:

"Everyone hates conformity until they try it

Now while the whole government agent with the secret military branch set on stopping alien invasions could still work with Bishop as an utrom. Because it could be a means of keeping track of the Kraang and stopping their invasions. But that seemed too easy.

First off the only time we see the EPF is the second invasion.

That organization couldn't have formed over the course of the year between the first and second invasion. Particularly with how bureaucratic our government actually is so in order for this military branch to exist, it would have had been formed long before the first invasion.

So assuming the EPF was an active branch before the first invasion, we can possibly assume that the invasion was initiated and done with before they could scramble the troops and ammunition to deal with it. Unless they were forbidden to deploy.

But what if the EPF was actually a front for something that was part of the Kraang themselves. After all the last we see of them in the second invasion is when they are fighting Kraang Prime...we are left believing they have been defeated. And in Return to New York, we see them all outfitted with the Kraang mind control devices so they can turn away and kill anyone who tries to enter the city

And in war, the most dangerous enemies you have are the ones that are on your own side.

So could it be possible that Bishop is actually an agent for the Kraang?

I know what some people are thinking, why would he fight against his own side if he was truly the side of the Kraang.

And the reason for that is to maintain their trust. In some video games, books,TV shows and anime there is a character who you feel is an all around good guy and then when their character 180's and becomes a villain, it's a bit of a shock for the everyone in the show. And if done right, even the viewer or reader is shocked at this betrayal because it's something no one sees coming before it's too late. And even when it is clearly obvious that the person in question is not to be trusted, they are still at times seen as a benign threat before revealing just how dangerous they actually are. Such as Varys and Petyr Baelish in Game of thrones.

But in other video games such as fallout, there are missions and side stories where you have to befriend a crime syndicate or an organization. You absolutely have to gain their complete trust before you ultimately stab them collectively in the back.

Take for example the Fugitoid. The Turtles throughout the six months he's with them they learn to trust and value him as a friend and ally. And then when he admits that he was the person who created the Heart of Darkness, and willingly sold it to the Kraang, the impact is a slap in the face for all of them. But Leo, Raph, and Casey see the betrayal has him using them to get them to get the heart of darkness. Whereas Donnie, Mikey, and April give him the benefit of the doubt and state that the Fugitoid made a mistake and that he was trying to make amends for it. And later everyone realizes the betrayal itself was meant to get them off the ship so that he could sacrifice himself and the Heart of Darkness with it.

Bishop on the other hand the Turtle's didn't trust at first because they've equated the Kraang and everything associated with them as evil. And Bishop does tell them that the Utrom had broken away from the Kraang Hivemind centuries ago.

But later during War for Dimension X they reveal that Kraang Prime had been an utrom scientist and brainwashed most of the Utrom into serving him. However, if Bishop had broken away from the Kraang Hivemind as he said...what if that was what he wanted everyone to believe?

What if he was actually a Mole for the Kraang the whole time?

He says he was going against utrom law by involving the Turtles in the fight against the Triceraton's. And in War for Dimension X, yes the Kraang followed the Turtles to the Utroms hiding place, but Kraang Sub-Prime were able to get in rather easily.

Also all of the Utrom council are robot bodies that the Turtles have encountered before such as Mrs. Campbell, and Irma. But all have a whiteish tinge to them, where as, Bishop is the same color as the Norman suits.

But it also could be possible that the Utrom are not as benevolent as they would appear either.

Splinter the boss
07-28-2016, 11:20 AM
I am not sure. The way things are now, I say it is a pretty stretched theory. But, who knows? You could be right. We'll see.

Konchadunga
08-06-2016, 01:40 AM
I have a hard time reading anything in that comment other than "You like Bishop? We'll try to bring him back and sell you a toy of him!" If they had another big shocker planned, I'm guessing they would not tweet about it.

The difference between Bishop and Irma is Irma had nothing apparent to do with the Kraang, so nobody expected her to be one, and before being revealed as such she didn't do much of plot importance. Bishop obviously does have something apparent to do with the Kraang, he was important even if only in one episode, and the big revelation with him was that some Kraang are actually good guys. He and the other Utroms also essentially tie up what had previously been a mystery about why most Kraang are relatively mindless but a select few seem more sentient and seem to like dressing as more realistic humans. It may or may not have been stated by the show already, but I'm not sure which came first, the Eusocial Kraang or the more individualist Utroms, but let's be real; they aren't going to make everyone in the individualist side bad guys.

victory_angel
08-10-2016, 05:21 PM
Anyone who feels that Kurtzman is the Utrom King. Auman has debunked that and said the Utrom King died a long time ago.

Perhaps the Utrom will come more into play in the upcoming episodes. Or at least in the next season.

Utrommaniac
08-10-2016, 06:27 PM
I would like to see where he said that.
It can only mean shenanigans in the future, I'm assuming. It's likely that Knight killed him when he joined the Kraang.

If Bishop were to have been allied with the Kraang at some point, it likely would have been very early on. Maybe Kra(a?)ng hadn't completely lost it yet and Bishop was under the assumption that he wasn't doing anything wrong yet. Then Kra(a?)ng got Knight on his side and that changed everything.

victory_angel
08-10-2016, 07:05 PM
I would like to see where he said that.
It can only mean shenanigans in the future, I'm assuming. It's likely that Knight killed him when he joined the Kraang.

If Bishop were to have been allied with the Kraang at some point, it likely would have been very early on. Maybe Kra(a?)ng hadn't completely lost it yet and Bishop was under the assumption that he wasn't doing anything wrong yet. Then Kra(a?)ng got Knight on his side and that changed everything.

Auman actually told me personally over facebook that was the case. King wasn't mentioned when we were introduced to the Utrom Council and Kraang Subprime would have gloated about killing King if he had done it himself. Such as saying "I'm going to do to you what I did to Kingy."

As for Bishop possibly being with the Kraang. In order for an infiltration to take place successfully, not everyone on a certain side can know about it. Kraang sub prime is someone who is likely to unintentionally blab that Bishop is playing them all for chumps.

Utrommaniac
08-10-2016, 07:09 PM
That's a pretty good point. Unless he doesn't want them to know, for whatever reason, or there's nothing to be said about it by that point.
Still, the nature of his absence does leave room for suspicion. Even with very few Utroms left, it's a wonder they haven't replaced him. Unless there aren't any that are qualified to be King.

BubblyShell22
08-11-2016, 08:25 AM
This could be plausible or Bishop could be in a double agent role a la Severus Snape in that he pretends to be on both sides while really only serving the good side. Either way I'm intrigued to see how this plays out over time when he does return again.

TMNTInsighter
08-11-2016, 09:26 AM
Sorry but this sounds like brouhaha. It would completely take away from what his role in "Annihilation Earth I" established and fulfilled (y'know before the world went *temporarily* away). Not to mention his help in "The War for Dimension X".

victory_angel
08-11-2016, 01:08 PM
Sorry but this sounds like brouhaha. It would completely take away from what his role in "Annihilation Earth I" established and fulfilled (y'know before the world went *temporarily* away). Not to mention his help in "The War for Dimension X".

Think of Aisen in Bleach. From his first appearance, we are lead to believe that he's an all around good guy. All the other Shinigami like and trust him and even the viewers are hoping he could be a voice of reason between the Ichigo and his companions and the rest of the soul society. But instead, he supposedly gets murdered which also causes some drama among the Shinigami themselves.

It's only later when he appears again that he reveals he's actually been a bunghole the whole time and the Aisen they thought they knew never existed.

And BubblyShell did bring up a good point with Snape. While Snape isn't a good person he does prove he was truly working for the good side.

Throughout the first book and much of the series we all see things from Harry's point of view. And through that are all lead to believe that Snape was the true villain of the story. And even when he points out that the Snape is evil, many of the other people around him particularly the adults are "That's nonsense, Harry." And then the events of book six come along and that seems to add weight to Harry's argument of Snape being evil and then we learn in the final book that Snape truly was working on the good side but he had his reasons for hating Harry.

With TMNT there are villains who are evil to the core such as the Shredder and Krang. And villains who are misguided in their actions against the Turtles. Such as Dirk Savage believing that all Mutants are evil, but then learning that there are good mutants.

But there are characters that are various shades of moral gray that sometimes are two sides of the same coin.

Such as a friend becoming an enemy. (Pulverizer, Karai,)
An enemy becoming a friend (Casey,Karai)

People they who they trust, only for said person to actually be an enemy (Bradford, Falco, Slash)

And People they don't trust, proving themselves as true friends (Leatherhead by Leo, Raph, and Donnie. Metalhead by Leo.)

And then we have the middle ground.

People who have used the Turtles, but for a good reason (The Fugitoid used the Turtles for his own ends, but he had good intentions for doing so)

That only leaves

People who have used their Turtles for their own selfish ends.

2k3 Bishop is one of those morally gray characters who has good reasons for what he does. And he truly believes what he's doing is best for protecting the Earth. And he does exploit the Turtles as expendable soldiers who could do his dirty work for him on occasion.

BubblyShell22
08-11-2016, 03:44 PM
Yes, but this Bishop is different from 2k3 Bishop so it may not be the same thing. Then again, you have been pretty good with the predictions, so we'll see.

Ceres
08-11-2016, 04:14 PM
I have a hard time reading anything in that comment other than "You like Bishop? We'll try to bring him back and sell you a toy of him!" If they had another big shocker planned, I'm guessing they would not tweet about it.

The difference between Bishop and Irma is Irma had nothing apparent to do with the Kraang, so nobody expected her to be one, and before being revealed as such she didn't do much of plot importance. Bishop obviously does have something apparent to do with the Kraang, he was important even if only in one episode, and the big revelation with him was that some Kraang are actually good guys. He and the other Utroms also essentially tie up what had previously been a mystery about why most Kraang are relatively mindless but a select few seem more sentient and seem to like dressing as more realistic humans. It may or may not have been stated by the show already, but I'm not sure which came first, the Eusocial Kraang or the more individualist Utroms, but let's be real; they aren't going to make everyone in the individualist side bad guys.

SImple, the Utroms came first because the Kraang are a mere splitter group of brainwashed zombies and not a seperate Species. Which was pretty good explained in War for Dimension X.

To the topic, i really hope Bishop is morally in a gray area, though i don't think he is on the Kraang side. It would make the feud between him and Knight totally pointless because all emotional impact would have been blown away.
But this is nick so i will wait and see.

MikeandRaph87
08-11-2016, 04:26 PM
When/where was it said that Dirk Savage would be back?
http://www.strangekidsclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dirk-savage.jpg

victory_angel
08-11-2016, 04:54 PM
When/where was it said that Dirk Savage would be back?
http://www.strangekidsclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dirk-savage.jpg

It wasn't said he would be back. At least so far it hasn't been announced. If he was going to be back the Human's vs. Mutants arc would be a good place to introduce him.

The question I had asked Auman was that since Bishop is an Utrom in this incarnation, would someone like say Dirk Savage be closer to his 2k3 role. And Auman said "No. Wait and see if Bishop comes back."

Konchadunga
08-12-2016, 05:56 PM
I'm tired of the Kraang as a whole. The only thing really keeping them interesting is that they've bumped Kraang Prime, Kraang Subprime, Bishop and the Utrom Council, ie, actual characters, up in prominence, and I'd hate to see their role reduced to facilitating yet more battles against the standard, drone-style Kraang. The 2012 TMNT world doesn't really feel big enough to care about it being threatened, so give me more villains that relate to the protagonists on a personal level.

Utrommaniac
08-12-2016, 06:51 PM
It wasn't said he would be back. At least so far it hasn't been announced. If he was going to be back the Human's vs. Mutants arc would be a good place to introduce him.

The question I had asked Auman was that since Bishop is an Utrom in this incarnation, would someone like say Dirk Savage be closer to his 2k3 role. And Auman said "No. Wait and see if Bishop comes back."
lbZx6SEViEM
That's not in the least bit shady.

I'm tired of the Kraang as a whole. The only thing really keeping them interesting is that they've bumped Kraang Prime, Kraang Subprime, Bishop and the Utrom Council, ie, actual characters, up in prominence, and I'd hate to see their role reduced to facilitating yet more battles against the standard, drone-style Kraang. The 2012 TMNT world doesn't really feel big enough to care about it being threatened, so give me more villains that relate to the protagonists on a personal level.
I think that's the biggest problem with the Kraang hivemind (artificial though it may be). They gave very little room for having actual characters until SubPrime came along and even then, he's not living up to his full potential. Especially on April's side of things, where things could really be personal.

But then again, Utroms don't tend to be well-utilized in TMNT as a whole, even in Mirage volume 4 and Tales where they still have a little more place in the story, though they don't seem to go anywhere. I don't think Leatherhead has truly ever been reunited him in the storylines where he was adopted by them. (And I do hope that Leatherhead at the very least becomes comfortable with the Utroms in this show)