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Refractive Reflections
08-11-2016, 05:29 PM
I don't know if any of you heard, but states (and cities) are raising the legal age of smoking from 18 to 21.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/05/476872674/california-raises-age-of-tobacco-purchase-to-21-and-tightens-vaping-rules
http://www.ibtimes.com/california-follows-hawaii-raising-smoking-age-21-makes-it-misdemeanor-help-underage-2364307
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/04/27/massachusetts-may-raise-age-buy-cigarettes/1dZ0HfTvLuonrWwpbloMlK/story.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/5/hawaii-becomes-first-state-raise-legal-smoking-age/

Chicago is not only raising the smoking age, but banning chewing tobacco at ballparks and other sport arenas.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/03/16/city-council-raises-chicago-smoking-age-to-21-bans-chewing-tobacco-at-ballparks/

Should the smoking age be raised to 21? Like alcohol was back in 1984 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act)?

There are some saying it's hypocritical for the government to raise the age to 21, since the government believes 18 year olds are ready for full adult responsibilities (financial debts, criminal punishments, job/career hours, voting, draft/military service), but won't provide full adult privileges (alcohol, gambling, and now tobacco) until 21. What do you think?

Andrew NDB
08-11-2016, 05:35 PM
God, the smoking community is collectively such pu**ies.

"OK, we'll sit in the smoking section."

"OK, we'll smoke outside."

"OK, we'll smoke 20 feet from any entrance."

"OK, we won't smoke on this street."

"OK, I won't smoke inside my house."

When is it ever going to be enough is enough?

Now raising the age to 21? They better f***ing raise the age of the draft to 21, too, then. Absolutely insane, appalling.

Candy Kappa
08-11-2016, 05:47 PM
I'm all for banning chewing tobacco at ballparks, people are absolutely disgusting with that stuff and spits it wherever it suits them.

But it's a bit weird seeing people are allowed to drive steel death traps on wheels before their brain is finished developed, or can go into the military and get training to efficiently riddle another human being with bullets. But not take a drink or light a cigarette.

ToTheNines
08-11-2016, 05:47 PM
Legalize freedom.

snake
08-11-2016, 06:14 PM
Good. Smoking is one of the worst things you can do to your body. I don't care what anyone says.

plastroncafe
08-11-2016, 06:15 PM
I want to say that MA is looking to ban smoking in cars that have children in them.

I don't really have a horse in this race, as I don't smoke, and don't intend to start. It seems to me though that if this activity is so dangerous...why isn't it just completely illegal?

Oh right, tobacco lobby.

I will also say that I think our age limits are kind of out of whack.
I'm for 18 being the legal age to vote and to serve in the military, but I think we should swap driving and drinking. Let 16 year olds buy beer, but don't let anyone drive until they turn 21.

CyberCubed
08-11-2016, 06:16 PM
Good. All those College kids will still smoke anyway.

Most people start College at 18, and by the time they're 21 they're already in College for 3 years. Hard to imagine people at dorms and universities for 3 years with no parental supervision wouldn't be smoking if they wanted to.

Andrew NDB
08-11-2016, 06:18 PM
Good. Smoking is one of the worst things you can do to your body.

So what? So is the sun.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-11-2016, 07:17 PM
I don't see anyone under the age of 40 smoking anymore, so what does it matter? Are new kids/adults actually picking up this habit? 'Cause I never see it; not on my college campuses, not at my malls, not anywhere.

snake
08-11-2016, 07:53 PM
So what? So is the sun.

You have no choice about viewing the sun or not. And we have sunscreen. Smoking is a choice.

Weak point

CyberCubed
08-11-2016, 08:05 PM
I don't see anyone under the age of 40 smoking anymore, so what does it matter? Are new kids/adults actually picking up this habit? 'Cause I never see it; not on my college campuses, not at my malls, not anywhere.

Kids still smoke.

Prowler
08-11-2016, 08:06 PM
I want to say that MA is looking to ban smoking in cars that have children in them.

I don't really have a horse in this race, as I don't smoke, and don't intend to start. It seems to me though that if this activity is so dangerous...why isn't it just completely illegal?

Oh right, tobacco lobby.

I will also say that I think our age limits are kind of out of whack.
I'm for 18 being the legal age to vote and to serve in the military, but I think we should swap driving and drinking. Let 16 year olds buy beer, but don't let anyone drive until they turn 21.

You cannot smoke inside a cafť, restaurant, wtv. here since like... 2007? Amazing law. I HATED going out to eat and having someone on the next table smoking. Having smoke going over your food is NOT pleasant.

You can buy beer and wine at 16 in my country. They raised the drinking age of spirits to 18 recently, though.

I don't see anyone under the age of 40 smoking anymore, so what does it matter? Are new kids/adults actually picking up this habit? 'Cause I never see it; not on my college campuses, not at my malls, not anywhere.
I see it pretty often. I guess it depends on the country. I've seen/heard a few americans saying before that one of the things that surprised them the most about Europe was how smoking was so prevalent. I know that in France people smoke a lot. I remember, many years ago, a study on TV saying that women in my country were more likely to smoke than men. In HS and in College plenty of my classmates smoked. As in half or nearly of it.

Commenter 42
08-11-2016, 08:18 PM
Did it mention vaping? You know, the even dumber form of smoking?

Prowler
08-11-2016, 08:21 PM
Btw, do you guys in the US put disclaimers in your tobacco packages like we do in the EU saying things like "Smoking kills" or "Smoking is bad for your sperm"? Now they're planning to put pictures of rotten lungs on them, in order to make people smoke less. They should be coherent and do that with booze too lol

TheSkeletonMan939
08-11-2016, 08:23 PM
Let 16 year olds buy beer, but don't let anyone drive until they turn 21.

You've got to be kidding. Letting kids get comfortable with alcohol before putting them behind the wheel is a great way of raising crash-related fatalities.

Prowler
08-11-2016, 08:26 PM
Eh, in my opinion, booze, tobacco and driving should all be at 18. Same for voting and military service.

I might be mistaken, but I think you can get a motorcycle license at age of 16 in some European countries...

snake
08-11-2016, 08:37 PM
Did it mention vaping? You know, the even dumber form of smoking?

Vaping is so f*cking stupid. I actually cringe whenever someone my age talks about it. That sh*t is gonna catch up to them eventually.

ToTheNines
08-11-2016, 08:51 PM
Nanny state bull ****. It won't stop at smoking.

AT-Man
08-11-2016, 09:01 PM
I smoke, and I approve of anything that oppresses smokers.

Prowler
08-11-2016, 09:10 PM
One thing I dislike about the indoor smoking ban law however... is that smokers at work are allowed to take more breaks and go outside to smoke their cigs. And I know some certainly use smoking as an excuse to take more breaks. As a non-smoker, I can only go somewhere else for a while if I'm hungry or need to pee. I Although, I guess that also makes smokers less productive as a whole.

ToTheNines
08-11-2016, 09:58 PM
I'm for 18 being the legal age to vote and to serve in the military, but I think we should swap driving and drinking. Let 16 year olds buy beer, but don't let anyone drive until they turn 21.

Might cripple our economy, but whatever.

Did it mention vaping? You know, the even dumber form of smoking?

You understand that people are ALLOWED to be dumb if they so choose to be right?

(Not advocating vaping, they're douche lords too)

CyberCubed
08-11-2016, 10:12 PM
Let people smoke and drink all they want, it doesn't affect me or anyone I know.

TurtleWA
08-12-2016, 01:10 AM
I'm all for public health and protecting young people. But at some point people have to start making decisions for themselves even if those decisions are self destructive.
The way ages are assigned to things is so strange. You have to be 35 to run for president but 18 to vote. So someone is mature enough to vote for a leader of the country but not be the leader themselves.

Refractive Reflections
08-12-2016, 01:17 AM
I'm all for public health and protecting young people. But at some point people have to start making decisions for themselves even if those decisions are self destructive.
The way ages are assigned to things is so strange. You have to be 35 to run for president but 18 to vote. So someone is mature enough to vote for a leader of the country but not be the leader themselves.

As for the presidency, I think it's more of a significant maturity & life experience issue as to why the president has to be at least 35, since the president holds so much political power that affects the whole population of a nation (rather than just affecting the individual themselves in regards to personal freedoms/privileges), and can make executive decisions on war and the military (i.e. The War Powers Resolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution)). The maturity and justification for entering the nation into armed combat would be different from an 18 year old vs. a 35 year old.

I mean, just look at the forums here, I'm sure the reasoning and outlook are far different for some of the members here from when they were 18, versus those same individuals who are now approaching 35.

Andrew NDB
08-12-2016, 01:20 AM
So basically a lot of... "I don't smoke, it's bad for you, and I'm glad there's a lot of people of my same mind so I don't ever have to catch a waft of it anywhere ever, even hypothetically."

Nonsense. Complete nonsense. Especially when held to the same light as other vices out there. And the figures the lobbyists throw out there, "500 million die each year (or whatever made up number is en vogue today) of second hand smoke!!!"... do you know of any? No one does. You won't find one person out there that has ever died conclusively of second hand smoke. It's a white buffalo story.

TurtleWA
08-12-2016, 02:01 AM
As for the presidency, I think it's more of a significant maturity & life experience issue as to why the president has to be at least 35, since the president holds so much political power that affects the whole population of a nation (rather than just affecting the individual themselves in regards to personal freedoms/privileges), and can make executive decisions on war and the military (i.e. The War Powers Resolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution)). The maturity and justification for entering the nation into armed combat would be different from an 18 year old vs. a 35 year old.

I mean, just look at the forums here, I'm sure the reasoning and outlook are far different for some of the members here from when they were 18, versus those same individuals who are now approaching 35.

Yes I totally agree an individuals judgement does/could change with age and life experience.

Generally speaking one may assume that the 35 year old would be more logical. But it all depends on the specific persons emotional maturity. It could be possible for an 18 year old to be wise in the choices they make and a 35 year old to be impulsive and careless in their decisions.

I was just pointing out another (in my opinion) weird age bias that makes little sense to me.

ProactiveMan
08-12-2016, 04:20 AM
I want to say that MA is looking to ban smoking in cars that have children in them.

I don't really have a horse in this race, as I don't smoke, and don't intend to start. It seems to me though that if this activity is so dangerous...why isn't it just completely illegal?

Oh right, tobacco lobby.


The tobacco lobby don't have many teeth in this country, but the government will never make tobacco illegal because they make so much damn money from taxing it. They've cranked the tax on tobacco so high that a pack of 20 will cost $40 by 2020, and the justification is that it will dissuade people from smoking. That's BS to an extent because if that money goes away, they'd have to find it somewhere else.

We also have gross pictures printed on cigarette packaging here; like diseased eyeballs and tongue cancer. Iím pretty sure the legal smoking age is 18 though, however I donít think itís technically illegal for minors to smoke, but itís illegal to sell, give, or allow them to acquire tobacco.

Commenter 42
08-12-2016, 04:22 AM
You understand that people are ALLOWED to be dumb if they so choose to be right?

(Not advocating vaping, they're douche lords too)

I'm all for less people. So, yes.

Of course yeah, you want to vape, I'm all for it.


...

I mean, I vaped once.
It took a little getting used to.
Had to find a volunteer to vape me.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4600589/f-is-for-fart-o.gif

Cleared my sinuses real good, but I ended up with pink eye for like, 18 months.

ToTheNines
08-12-2016, 04:47 AM
I'm all for less people. So, yes.

*High five*


I mean, I vaped once.
It took a little getting used to.
Had to find a volunteer to vape me.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4600589/f-is-for-fart-o.gif

Cleared my sinuses real good, but I ended up with pink eye for like, 18 months.


Lol, what did I just watch?

Shark_Blade
08-12-2016, 04:58 AM
They should ban it for all ages.

Commenter 42
08-12-2016, 05:24 AM
*High five*

Lol, what did I just watch?

Courtesy the chuckleheads on Comicbookmovie.com.

Gusto and McGee are genius. Jollem is like Cybercubed3

ToTheNines
08-12-2016, 05:41 AM
I hate them all, especially Jollem. I heard a theory once that they're all just Josh Wilding troll accounts.

Commenter 42
08-12-2016, 05:44 AM
I hate them all, especially Jollem. I heard a theory once that they're all just Josh Wilding troll accounts.

Yeah, I think I put that article up here...

And people complain about the drome.
Pfft.

TheSkeletonMan939
08-12-2016, 07:17 AM
Anything to do with Josh Wilding fills me up with great rage.

BubblyShell22
08-12-2016, 09:41 AM
This won't solve anything since underage kids will still smoke and still drink no matter what age restriction is put on them. They can try, but it won't work.

The Deadman
08-12-2016, 11:09 AM
This won't solve anything since underage kids will still smoke and still drink no matter what age restriction is put on them. They can try, but it won't work.

This. Upping the smoking age to 21 will just want kids under that age to do it even more.

plastroncafe
08-12-2016, 11:59 AM
You've got to be kidding. Letting kids get comfortable with alcohol before putting them behind the wheel is a great way of raising crash-related fatalities.

Show your work.

Nanny state bull ****. It won't stop at smoking.

A real nanny state would have just made them 100% illegal.

Might cripple our economy, but whatever.


http://67.media.tumblr.com/4a0ec576d274227ebd6631d4602fa952/tumblr_inline_nzavf9MSLN1ss1lam_540.gif

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-12-2016, 12:11 PM
Smoking is the one freedom I just don't care about. It's not Libertarian or small government at all to regulate it, but I don't care.

Commenter 42
08-12-2016, 01:10 PM
Less is more.

turtlefanforever
08-12-2016, 03:17 PM
We need to end smoking altogether so making them wait even longer is fine by me. People will probably do it anyway but one less thing to motivate them to.

ToTheNines
08-14-2016, 09:57 AM
A real nanny state would have just made them 100% illegal.

It's called "a step in the wrong direction". They're telling adults what to do and not do. Bad enough for me.

Don't know what your Apocalypse gif was about, but your idea is nonsense. I know you live in a big city where one can go anywhere they need to with relative ease. But all the under-21 people in the rest of the country literally need to drive to get to work/school/anywhere.

I don't know why I'm attempting to debate you on anything, though. Your worldview is as static as cybercubed's.

mrmaczaps
08-14-2016, 07:48 PM
Smokers are evil selfish people. They don't care where they are or if its legal or not and they just do as they please. Done with a cigarette, just toss it out the window... no smoking sign? Stand right on front of it and puff away. Get fired for smoking at work because of zero tolerance policy? Get pissed at everyone and scream and yell about "fairness". Smoke breaks all day long about every hour? Non smoking coworker has to deal with your stench for 8.5-9 hours a day.

As a non-smoker forever having to wade through a$$hats smoking wherever they want, I've stopped going most places that won't ask their customers to move away from open doorways or sitting/standing within the 20 foot radius of the front door...

Smoking is selfish. Plain and simple.

Powder
08-14-2016, 07:55 PM
As a former smoker; :trolleye:

ABrown
08-14-2016, 08:13 PM
People still smoke? What year is this, 1984? I hear there's a new comic book: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles coming out this year. I'll have to check it out.

Prowler
08-14-2016, 08:26 PM
There's definitely many smokers who are dicks and have no respect for others, even if there's children and people with breathing problems around who can't stand the smoke. But not every smoker is like that, obviously. The thing is, the world is full of tobacco smokers, so mathematically speaking, many of them are gonna be rude and selfish people.

plastroncafe
08-14-2016, 08:30 PM
It's called "a step in the wrong direction". They're telling adults what to do and not do. Bad enough for me.

Don't know what your Apocalypse gif was about, but your idea is nonsense. I know you live in a big city where one can go anywhere they need to with relative ease. But all the under-21 people in the rest of the country literally need to drive to get to work/school/anywhere.

I don't know why I'm attempting to debate you on anything, though. Your worldview is as static as cybercubed's.

"From the ashes of this world, we will build another one!"
Is the line that goes with the .gif. I thought it appropriate.

I didn't always live in a big city, and I counted on carpooling and my bicycle to get just about anywhere in any weather. And I'm old enough to remember when families had a single car for a family of four.

CyberCubed
08-15-2016, 02:04 AM
People still smoke? What year is this, 1984? I hear there's a new comic book: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles coming out this year. I'll have to check it out.

I was in High School and College in the early 2000's and I saw people smoking all the time. Even at the job you see people smoke time and time again when they're on break.

Smoking is definitely not something that ever died out.

ssjup81
08-15-2016, 04:14 AM
I was in High School and College in the early 2000's and I saw people smoking all the time. Even at the job you see people smoke time and time again when they're on break.

Smoking is definitely not something that ever died out.There are more than likely fewer people smoking compared to 1984.

ToTheNines
08-15-2016, 07:53 AM
"From the ashes of this world, we will build another one!"
Is the line that goes with the .gif. I thought it appropriate.

I didn't always live in a big city, and I counted on carpooling and my bicycle to get just about anywhere in any weather. And I'm old enough to remember when families had a single car for a family of four.

Well really, the world would be a better place if we all stopped driving. But we can't.

I'll begrudgingly maybe kinda sorta say 18 to have a license. But the last thing we, as a culture, need to do is further postpone adulthood and independence.

After 18 though, I'd argue that's unconstitutional.

Cure
08-15-2016, 08:09 AM
I hate when I be on the street and I see a fly honey walking by and I'm all like daaamn gurl and then she pulls out a cigarette. Fantasy ROONED.

blindturtle02
08-15-2016, 09:48 AM
This. Upping the smoking age to 21 will just want kids under that age to do it even more.

Yep, that was my first thought when I read the news. I've heard it said that college serves as life's laboratory where some basically try everything that comes with that new found freedom. If something's off limits to folks in the 19 to 21 year old age range, some of them are going to want to experiment with it even more. However, I hope it's a deterrent for some. I never started because I wanted more cash to spend on action figures! I forget how many packs my stepdad buys a week, but he always says he'd save quite a bit of money if he up and quit for good. Hasn't happened yet, but we'll see. I've never considered myself the adventurous or daring type, so that might also have something to do with not starting.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
08-15-2016, 10:50 AM
There are more than likely fewer people smoking compared to 1984.

Or by the 1950's 60's when smoking was advertised everywhere. Billboards, buses, commercials in cinemas, radio and TV, newspapers,

Andrew NDB
08-15-2016, 11:54 AM
Smoking is selfish. Plain and simple.

People still smoke? What year is this, 1984?

Or by the 1950's 60's when smoking was advertised everywhere. Billboards, buses, commercials in cinemas, radio and TV, newspapers,

None of this means anything.

Prowler
08-15-2016, 12:49 PM
...are there people who are actually surprised that smoking tobacco is still common? Is smoking tobacco not that big in the USA anymore, or something?

Ok, it's wiki and all but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_cap ita

...how can Koreans and Japanese live so long smoking that much and leading such stressful lives?

The Deadman
08-15-2016, 12:56 PM
I hate when I be on the street and I see a fly honey walking by and I'm all like daaamn gurl and then she pulls out a cigarette. Fantasy ROONED.

And then after you're disgusted by the smell of the cigarette she gets you for harassment.

plastroncafe
08-15-2016, 12:56 PM
Maybe their cigs have less added to them than ours do?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-15-2016, 12:57 PM
John Oliver did an expose on the tobacco industry awhile back; quite fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8

ProactiveMan
08-16-2016, 12:37 AM
...are there people who are actually surprised that smoking tobacco is still common? Is smoking tobacco not that big in the USA anymore, or something?

Ok, it's wiki and all but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_cap ita

...how can Koreans and Japanese live so long smoking that much and leading such stressful lives?

Their smoking related death stats are much the same as the USA and Australia. They probably have other things going for them that contributes to their overall longevity, although looking at Wikipedia, Japan's mortality rate is pretty bad comparatively.

Iím really of two minds about smoking. I watched my uncle slowly die of mouth cancer, my aunt of emphysema after three years of breathing from a tank. My grandfather also died of emphysema, my grandmother had it but it didnít kill her, and after watching her live with it for years, Iím not sure which is worse. My dad smoked since he was 16, tried to quit several times but would always lapse after a month of making everyone else in the house miserable. He finally quit when he found out my sister had taken it up.

Itís clearly bad for you, and we can argue about how bad cars are etc. but at least cars serve a purpose, whereas smoking is completely unnecessary. At the same time, if people want to do something thatís bad for them, who am I to stand in their way?

I bet second hand smoke is bad for people in confined spaces, but itís being banned in outdoor areas and university campuses routinely, with the effects of second hand smoke used as a justification. Outdoors? Is there literally nowhere on a university campus that someone can smoke without significantly contributing carcinogens into the atmosphere? I really hate it when people use bullsh*t to advance a cause, no matter how righteous it is.

ssjup81
08-16-2016, 03:55 AM
...are there people who are actually surprised that smoking tobacco is still common? Is smoking tobacco not that big in the USA anymore, or something?

Ok, it's wiki and all but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_cap ita

...how can Koreans and Japanese live so long smoking that much and leading such stressful lives?Probably diet and moving around more compared to those in the US...but still seems like cancer in general is a biggie in Japan.

Anyway, despite the fact that they use cigarette vending machines here (along with alcohol ones), the smoking rate has dropped quite a bit (was mentioned on the news before) and I am encountering more people who don't smoke compared to my first time in Japan.

Prowler
08-16-2016, 09:50 AM
Probably diet and moving around more compared to those in the US...but still seems like cancer in general is a biggie in Japan.

Anyway, despite the fact that they use cigarette vending machines here (along with alcohol ones), the smoking rate has dropped quite a bit (was mentioned on the news before) and I am encountering more people who don't smoke compared to my first time in Japan.
Well, what kind of food do Japanese usually eat? Are the health benefits of sushi that good? And don't lots of Japanese eat instant food and such?

Sadly, cancer is common in all over the developed world. Back in the 70s-80s, you'd know or hear of one or two people in your area that died of cancer or had cancer. But nowadays, it seems everyone has a relative or two who has had cancer or has died of it. It's quite frightening.

blindturtle02
08-16-2016, 10:41 AM
Well, what kind of food do Japanese usually eat? Are the health benefits of sushi that good? And don't lots of Japanese eat instant food and such?

Sadly, cancer is common in all over the developed world. Back in the 70s-80s, you'd know or hear of one or two people in your area that died of cancer or had cancer. But nowadays, it seems everyone has a relative or two who has had cancer or has died of it. It's quite frightening.

Yeah man, frightening to the max. Several people in my family have all had cancer. They've beaten it, but still smoking of course. Ironically, my other half's mother who never smoked a day in her life, died of cancer after fighting it for about five or so years. Smoking or not, cancer does seem to be hitting a lot of people I'm close to now.

ssjup81
08-16-2016, 12:04 PM
Well, what kind of food do Japanese usually eat? Are the health benefits of sushi that good? And don't lots of Japanese eat instant food and such? Well, the foods have fewer chemicals and preservatives. It's common for people to go supermarket shopping nearly everyday...but there are people who go to the convenience stores and buy the premade foods, but it still spoils fast.