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View Full Version : Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 16: Broken Foot


victory_angel
08-20-2016, 11:51 PM
https://66.media.tumblr.com/69c6daade7940013c6bbb7ec60a2a1fb/tumblr_oc7no7yIRX1r2nvplo2_540.png

Leo apparently hasn't learned his lesson about going off on his own as he secretly joins forces with Karai and finds himself in serious Danger.

Will Leo truly be acting on his own, or will a certain Foot Clan witch be responsible for turning him rogue?

snake
08-20-2016, 11:55 PM
Pretty excited about this episode. I hope Dark Leo is more Dork Leo with him attempting to act "cool" in front of Karai and Shinigami. :lol:

KrN
08-21-2016, 01:02 AM
The episode is out on iTunes! https://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/id1134575658

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 03:15 AM
Oh my god!!!!!!!!! that was intense :o and has to be my favorite episode so far.

Leo become a vigilante and helping Karai and Shinigami out and keeping a secret from the others. They were obviously angry when they found out.

Chompy and Ice Cream kitty don't get along and Chompy breaths fire.

Poor Donnie, he got injured by saving Mikey and Raph when the Auman Chemical plant was blown up. I loved that Mikey, Raph and Leo ran up and hugged him when he woke up.

The best funny moment has to be the 2007 movie reference that Raph said he wanted to dress up as a vigilante but got talked out of it.

Karia can cure her injuries by turning into her snake form.

Redworld96
08-21-2016, 03:22 AM
http://65.media.tumblr.com/ebcc4c3139d3762d9de509a32751fb39/tumblr_oc94k3LAxe1rmhk25o2_540.png http://66.media.tumblr.com/9e3a8615f42a119cc70912b66d213d51/tumblr_oc94k3LAxe1rmhk25o3_r1_540.png http://66.media.tumblr.com/3803917eb69ce01e7ab98e2fcf1a463f/tumblr_oc94k3LAxe1rmhk25o1_500.png http://67.media.tumblr.com/f12eaaa9aa9d7aefd52748b6e97bcba1/tumblr_oc94k3LAxe1rmhk25o4_400.png
April: “Hurt my nerd mutant again and I will use the Dragon’s tail with you” :lol:



Yeah, that was totally a 2007 reference

Fang Wolf
08-21-2016, 04:38 AM
That was good Ep. :tsmile:
I like new Footbots.... :tlove:

ssjup81
08-21-2016, 05:15 AM
I'm going to assume Casey's not in this ep either.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 05:21 AM
I'm going to assume Casey's not in this ep either.

No he's not and April is a minor character in this episode.

ssjup81
08-21-2016, 05:25 AM
No he's not and April is a minor character in this episode.
At least Josh is getting a break. I always figured they leave supporting characters out for a time to give the voice actors a rest...like how we didn't have Splinter for so long.

TheJ-manTurtleMan
08-21-2016, 06:09 AM
2007 TMNT reference! :tlol: I'm sure it won't get anywhere beyond this episode, but I would love it if they had the Nightwatcher in this series.

JTH
08-21-2016, 09:30 AM
Have to say, Leo does a great job recreating Shawn Michaels' entrance gear. :lol:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/69c6daade7940013c6bbb7ec60a2a1fb/tumblr_oc7no7yIRX1r2nvplo2_540.png

http://oi63.tinypic.com/w1smrb.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/zu0584.jpg

9.5 out of 10 for that Leo, made my day.

GoldMutant
08-21-2016, 09:30 AM
Saw the episode earlier; overall Broken Foot I feel is better than last week's episode, but still possesses similar issues.

Similarly to last week, the little moments in the episode were good. The whole Mazes and Mutants part was adorable; in addition, there were nice Turtle moments. Raph mentioning Nightwatcher, Don's sacrifice and hug (though I feel it should have been Mikey), in general the small moments are well done.

Additionally, the action is also solid, good intensity and visual flare this time, but it feels slightly a step back from last week. Don't know why, maybe the April vs Shinigami duel was the highlight in City at War. Lastly, there's further plot progression with what I assume are the Foot Elite, but again it's subdued.

Unfortunately, Broken Foot carries identical flaws from last week as well. Though the action is well done, there's not that much story outside "Let's break in and cripple Shredder by doing X!" It won't surprise me if that's the new formula; it has newer ways of doing so to destroy a criminal empire if the villains are switched up each week, but there's something missing. I feel due to action taking over, there's really no story this episode besides destroying Shredder's robotic army. It doesn't do a really good job

Lastly, Dark Leo. I thought it'd be Shinigami (who I'm not huge on still) controlling him, but it's instead Leo gone rogue. The design's really good, heck the animation in general is excellent, but something feels amiss. I wish it were mentioned when the episode takes place after last week, because there's really no explanation of Leo outside the artwork for future episodes or selling merchandise. His talk with Splinter was fine, but I don't know, it feels quick.

It's solid, but could've done so much more. Maybe a little less action and more substance would've helped. I give it 7 burning Chromedomes out of 10.

thundermaster612
08-21-2016, 09:33 AM
I thought Tiger Claw was gonna die or something. That lava almost hit him. Well actually it only hit the footbots around him. Same thing with Shini. Gosh darn plot armor. It also appears that Karai hasn't learned her lesson yet. I kinda want her to live with the turtles normally for a while. And Shini makes a mistake at the beginning when she calls Shredder Karai's dad. But I guess not everyone is out of that loop yet.

pannoni1
08-21-2016, 09:36 AM
Pretty much what I expected featuring pretty much the "A" cast looking to see what's about to happen next, although the ending was well worth it and you can really feel Leo after he caused Don to get in trouble, and this is also where Splinter shines. I'll have to say with Shini, we got a good new "female villain" in place of Karai, who I see as a good midway between an April and Shini, leaning toward one or the other as the series has progressed, which makes this Karai one of the more interesting versions of her.

Show Grade: 7.5/10

Huzzah
08-21-2016, 09:36 AM
I'm going to assume Casey's not in this ep either.

He's not, and I'm glad. The Space arc really, really made me hate his character. I didn't mind him initially, but he is by and large the most annoying version of the character. That and I could go the entire rest of the season wthout hearing him say "metal" ever again.

Also I love ICK's crown. Just saying.

ObiWanFan4life
08-21-2016, 09:39 AM
Another solid episode, as always. On a side note, I'm so relieved that they didn't make "Dark Leo" an arc. 8/10 for me.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 09:45 AM
God this episode was stupid, so Karai has the great plan of crippling Shredders empire when Shredder is at his weakest but Splinter thinks it isnt a good idea because of "revenge" nevermind the fact Shredder is going after Splinters family and he will use every arsenal at his disposal.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 09:52 AM
God this episode was stupid, so Karai has the great plan of crippling Shredders empire when Shredder is at his weakest but Splinter thinks it isnt a good idea because of "revenge" nevermind the fact Shredder is going after Splinters family and he will use every arsenal at his disposal.

Well I doubt Shredder's weak now, he's probably getting stronger now that he's getting mutated.

But Splinter is right getting revenge is bad because it will end up hurting others, poor Donnie got injured and of course Tang Shen's death in Tale of the Yokai, they were caused by revenge.

Aaronardo
08-21-2016, 09:56 AM
Just like last week's ep, this one has little to no identity of its own. Things that should be a big deal are pretty much swept under the rug (Donnie's injury, which isn't brought up again until the very end of the episode, Leo going off on his own yet again).

I appreciate that they are trying to listen to us, though. There are cute, lighthearted, humorous moments in there that did get a couple laughs out of me (the Mazes & Mutants gag was probably my favorite). And the characters are getting their personalities back, but we're still not quite at that point where you can really relate to them.

I liked the Nightwatcher reference, though being a huge fan of that arc myself, I feel it would've been better as a stand-alone Raph-centric episode. But that's just me. Glad to at least know they acknowledge its existence.

However, they couldn't have hammered in the moral any harder than they did here. It got pretty annoying. Rather than doing it somewhat subtlely, the episode comes right out about five or six times saying "REVENGE IS BAD KIDS!!" and not being the least bit subtle about it. It's episodes like these that show me the days where it didn't just feel like voice actors reading off lines on a piece of paper are gone.

Something's also been bugging me for awhile -- where the hell is April's personality? Is it gone? Did it die? I remember April being a pretty fun character once upon a time. Now she's just the dues ex machina in every situation (see the very beginning of this particular episode, where they rushedly already figure out what Leo's up to because "ooh, mind powers, oooooh"). Can April's personality come back?

Can Splinter's, too? Because I get that he's the mentor/father and all that, but he used to remind me of Mr. Miyagi in that most of his humor came from his strange teachings that somehow even made sense. Now he's just, "don't do thing, bad thing is bad, now you see why bad thing is bad, cheese-sicle." I don't get it. For a show that's trying so hard to be lighthearted now, it sure isn't doing a very good job being humorous.

Mikey's "relationship" with Shinigami just hammers in that these writers probably never had an actual relationship with a girl as a teenager. I mean, maybe they did, I can't know for sure, but the way they write all these female characters as love interests for everyone, and kinda slutty at times (Karai's "charms" with Leo in this very episode), it just doesn't seem that way. Mikey and Shinigami "flirting" is just nothing short of cringey (I hate to use this word, but there really is no other way I can describe it). Renet better come back and both her and Shinigami better give Mikey a piece of their minds. Otherwise, this is just useless.

Okay, one last thing and then I'm done. The new Foot. I thought this was going to be really cool at first. But, like every other major thing in this episode, it's swept under the rug almost like it doesn't even exist. At this moment, the shock value is too high and the actual value of the show is too low, and that's just an example. Many major things happened in this episode, but there were too many. This whole show just feels like a bad episode of Family Guy now because of that. Nothing's memorable because everything's a big, memorable thing.

Yeah, this episode wasn't too good. Better than last week, but not by much. Had most of the same problems. However, I do appreciate they are at least trying to make the show better. Who knows? It might actually get back to its original levels of writing by the end of this season. We can hope.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 09:57 AM
Well I doubt Shredder's weak now, he's probably getting stronger now that he's getting mutated.

But Splinter is right getting revenge is bad because it will end up hurting others, poor Donnie got injured and of course Tang Shen's death in Tale of the Yokai, they were caused by revenge.

The point of the matter is that he is out of commission and his little money making schemes are vulnerable doesn't it make sense to destroy his foot bot factories or weapon cache and making his empire more vulnerable as for Donnie if Leo told the team then this would't have happened Karai's plan was a good plan but Mr.Seek Victory not fairness thinks its a bad idea for some reason.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 10:03 AM
The point of the matter is that he is out of commission and his little money making schemes are vulnerable doesn't it make sense to destroy his foot bot factories or weapon cache and making his empire more vulnerable as for Donnie if Leo told the team then this would't have happened Karai's plan was a good plan but Mr.Seek Victory not fairness thinks its a bad idea for some reason.

No because even those things are destroyed he will only start those things again somewhere else. He will just keep going until he's destroyed the turtles and Splinter.

ToTheNines
08-21-2016, 10:04 AM
I thought it was ok, but it felt really rushed. Maybe could have stood being a two parter.

Wilhelm scream made me laugh.

NightWatcher reference was pretty ham fisted. I'll take it though.

God this episode was stupid, so Karai has the great plan of crippling Shredders empire when Shredder is at his weakest but Splinter thinks it isnt a good idea because of "revenge" nevermind the fact Shredder is going after Splinters family and he will use every arsenal at his disposal.

Yeah, I'm with you there. Pretty out of character for Splinter.

@Aaronardo I agree about the "moral". Zero subtlety. Shame.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 10:05 AM
No because even those things are destroyed he will only start those things again somewhere else. He will just keep going until he's destroyed the turtles and Splinter.

Except its gonna cost him money and resources to do it so its all the more reason to do it, hell worst case scenario(for the turtles) it could set Shredder back a few months and have his mutant bodyguards focus on the factories leaving him in the open

Fang Wolf
08-21-2016, 10:08 AM
I put the mark of a thing with the new elite foot bots?
The very similar to the Chrome Dome ...(their body)

Yes, Splinter have right about " revenge.."
It's give much pain for others....

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 10:15 AM
I think its not so much that he's against Karai going after the Foot, but letting revenge GUIDE Karai in taking on the Foot. I mean really, if she didn't have help from Leo, Raph, and Mikey, three COMPETENT ninjas she would've probably died. She had NO idea the robots they were making were upgrades, she just found the factory and was all "Well *CLAP* let's blow it up!" While it was kind-of a hammered in moral, the dude is right. They'll go after Shredder when the time comes, but with a bit more level head than...crazy, obviously mentally unbalanced snake lady, and her enabling witch friend.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 10:18 AM
Except its gonna cost him money and resources to do it so its all the more reason to do it, hell worst case scenario(for the turtles) it could set Shredder back a few months and have his mutant bodyguards focus on the factories leaving him in the open

It looks like he does have a lot of money, did you see his house last week so it won't set him back months, maybe weeks. He's also got Baxter Stockman and he probably still has Kraang technology.

So even if he's set back a few months or weeks, he can keep coming up with other ideas on how to destroy the turtles.

Also he controls the mafia as well and they will be in the episode Mutant Gangland and they will be using anti mutant weapons on the turtles.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 10:22 AM
I think its not so much that he's against Karai going after the Foot, but letting revenge GUIDE Karai in taking on the Foot. I mean really, if she didn't have help from Leo, Raph, and Mikey, three COMPETENT ninjas she would've probably died. She had NO idea the robots they were making were upgrades, she just found the factory and was all "Well *CLAP* let's blow it up!" While it was kind-of a hammered in moral, the dude is right. They'll go after Shredder when the time comes, but with a bit more level head than...crazy, obviously mentally unbalanced snake lady, and her enabling witch friend.

"When the time comes" the time is now if it was up to Splinter, Shredder would've been healed AND he would've had an army of Chrome Domes with him both parties were wrong in this episode but for some reason Spinter was in the right he should've told Karai to attack Shredder from a pragmatic point of view and had the rest of the turtles including April to help her the whole lesson could've been "When having a dangerous situation always tell your family or friends because they can help you" but no its revenge is bad because we are too stupid to see a good opportunity.

It looks like he does have a lot of money, did you see his house last week so it won't set him back months, maybe weeks. He's also got Baxter Stockman and he probably still has Kraang technology.

So even if he's set back a few months or weeks, he can keep coming up with other ideas on how to destroy the turtles.

Also he controls the mafia as well and they will be in the episode Mutant Gangland and they will be using anti mutant weapons on the turtles.

And guess what money is finite, everytime Karai and Shini attacks Shredder's money making schemes or when they attack his factories Shredder loses money also Baxter needs money to get the resources to build foot bots

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 10:33 AM
Once again I think he meant revenge guiding her was bad, and keep in mind she never asked for help from him because SHE assumed he'd just say no. She could've given them the reconnaissance she found to help her destroy it more properly, as well as tell Leo/Leo didn't tell his brothers what he was doing causing Donnie to get injured(I forget if she told him not to tell them or not, and am too busy to rewatch the ep). Regardless its also on Leo a LOT, he encouraged her behavior and lied to his bros because he can't keep it in his Shell. SHE AIN'T WORTH IT LEO-find your world's version of Radical and move on!

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 10:38 AM
Once again I think he meant revenge guiding her was bad, and keep in mind she never asked for help from him because SHE assumed he'd just say no. She could've given them the reconnaissance she found to help her destroy it more properly, as well as tell Leo/Leo didn't tell his brothers what he was doing causing Donnie to get injured(I forget if she told him not to tell them or not, and am too busy to rewatch the ep). Regardless its also on Leo a LOT, he encouraged her behavior and lied to his bros because he can't keep it in his Shell. SHE AIN'T WORTH IT LEO-find your world's version of Radical and move on!

Should't the mid 40s Jounin who's family been attacked by Shredder offer her help like all 3 parties are somewhat in the wrong but this show is too stupid to tell Splinter that Karai idea was good and she needs guidance.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 10:43 AM
"When the time comes" the time is now if it was up to Splinter, Shredder would've been healed AND he would've had an army of Chrome Domes with him both parties were wrong in this episode but for some reason Spinter was in the right he should've told Karai to attack Shredder from a pragmatic point of view and had the rest of the turtles including April to help her the whole lesson could've been "When having a dangerous situation always tell your family or friends because they can help you" but no its revenge is bad because we are too stupid to see a good opportunity.



And guess what money is finite, everytime Karai and Shini attacks Shredder's money making schemes or when they attack his factories Shredder loses money also Baxter needs money to get the resources to build foot bots

Shredder won't give a **** on how much money he's lost, he will just keep going and going insane and be obsessed on destroying the turtles and Splinter, that's all he cares about.

Karai destroying his things isn't going to affect him too much and is going to make things a lot worse and make him more insane on revenge.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 10:49 AM
Shredder won't give a **** on how much money he's lost, he will just keep going and going insane and be obsessed on destroying the turtles and Splinter, that's all he cares about.

Karai destroying his things isn't going to affect him too much and is going to make things a lot worse and make him more insane on revenge.

Well he should its money that employs a good chunk of his minions and its money that keeps his foot bots manufactured also I don't know if you noticed but Tiger Claw(you know Shredders most efficient Lieutenant) would probably leave if Shredder becomes too unstable Karai's idea while bullheaded and emotional was a good idea and its hell of a lot better than sitting around and having the turtles thumb up their asses and wait until Shredder has an army of Chrome Domes.

TMNTInsighter
08-21-2016, 10:57 AM
I had quite a bit of fun writing this review. "Broken Foot" is surely a step up from last week's episode (B-, 3.5/5 to a B, 4/5). Here it is:

An episode such as “City at War” did a decent job of establishing a new character in Shinigami, Karai’s questionable means of loosening Shredder’s grip on the power he wields (the old ends vs. means dilemma), and ending on a dangerous and suspenseful note showing how much this war is just getting started. Some of the things it did lack was Leonardo’s and Karai’s somewhat complex yet caring relationship and what may be the true cost(s) and consequences of winning this war once and for all. Those things are finally touched upon in its succeeding episode, “Broken Foot” while it walks a strenuous line between (revenge) tragedy and melodrama. Most of this series’ tragedy springs from revenge in episodes such as “Vengeance is Mine”, "Tale of the Yokai", and “Annihilation: Earth!” just to name a couple and while it's a guiding force here, Karai has so far displayed herself different from those who've become villains due to it (ex. Newtralizer, the Triceratons, Shredder, etc.) It's always fun when the series explores both revenge and tragedy and while not as powerful as the aforementioned episodes, it still isn't lacking here.

Now obviously, Leo is not fooling the audience with his new look and he wouldn’t fool any of his friends and family up close as well. There’s also not much point to it either, aside from providing a visual meaning that neither he nor his two female allies are supposed to be aware of. He and everyone else may as well be under the illusion of him wearing his same old blue mask and combo of belts and pads while the audience is treated to both a cool visual (and it is undoubtedly cool) and a highly probable sense of impending trouble. Still, the fact that he’s the only turtle to be teaming up with Karai shows how much he still cares for her and that remains one of the more interesting aspects of both their characters. It’s also fitting that one of the spots on Karai’s “To Destroy List” is the old Auman chemical plant which supplied the chemicals that made her turn back to her old team. While Leo becomes hesitant towards going any further with their plans, he still sees the good in Karai’s motivations and believes in her plan of restoring the Foot to a period of honor—or at least what it might have been before Shredder’s reign. Also, the Auman chemical plant’s part in Karai’s arc from the previous season also caused him quite a bit of pain so it’s understandable how much he’d like to take part in this. These things are all supposed to be indicative of the attempt at tragedy ahead.

Now of course, the plan works but at the near cost of Donatello. A cost that could’ve been avoided if only there was just a bit more communication between the turtle family. Not that that should be held against the episode. After all, the tragedy in Romeo and Juliet came about due to a lack of communication and that story is still held in high regard to this day. Specifically, this is the part of the story which blurs between tragedy and melodrama. Whereas a tragedy involves a great person destined to fall in some way, shape, or form due to flaws, an overpowering force, fate, or society; a melodrama (which this series has arguably become the most) meanwhile exaggerates emotions while emphasizing plot or action at the expense of both cause and effect and characterization. Now a lot of tragedies are built on emotions since most of the recognizable titles in history come from either the Romantic era or the English Renaissance (or what some refer to as the Elizabethan Age). One of my favorite books is The Count of Monte Cristo, a melodrama which at first wouldn’t be held in such high regard today when placed in that category. However, it remains notable not only for its revenge and bucking of social norms at the time, but also for providing what most modern melodramas do not: character development (perhaps the best I’ve ever seen) and cause and effect despite some of the proclaimed chance encounters and ridiculous situations some of the story’s critics proclaim. This episode does a mostly good job of the latter rather than the former even if the characters with opposite viewpoints regarding the latter don't come to an exact understanding.

Still, this story fits more under the terms of the melodramatic, especially when you consider the fates of “Vengeance is Mine” and “Annihilation: Earth!” Karai’s tragedy, aside from being raised by an overbearing and overpowered sociopathic father figure as well as no Tang Shen, is a lack of inclusion as well as anger issues and lack of trust shared between herself and others--not to mention the unbearable nature of bad things resulting from good intentions. Despite these flaws; she’s still trying to do the right thing even if the means remain questionable and that's why her plans, whether they will work out well or not, remains something to be invested in going forward. While all these things are on full display here, not only does “Broken Foot” not reach the tragic levels of episodes like the two previously mentioned but it also doesn’t explore the issue of Karai’s ends vs means dilemma as much or as effectively as it should have been able to; instead giving way to a lot of suspicions, accusations, and then resentments between the family in the wake of Donatello's accident. Indicative of this all is the final shot showing that the ideals of Karai versus those of her family don’t end up exactly closing quarters.

The Happy One
08-21-2016, 10:57 AM
I think the thing is...Splinter’s fine right now- with living hidden, with laying low.

And yeah, the sensei in him wants to end this, wants to fight it- get rid of Shredder for good.

But he's also a father. He just got his kids back, all of his kids back. And right now he just wants to breathe, just to enjoy them and be at peace.

Like Vicky said vengeance and vendetta are all the reasons why he's lost so much, lost his daughter for years, his wife forever, almost lost Leo plenty of times and, like in this ep, his sons get hurt- people get hurt.

So, yeah, he knows this will have to come to an end soon, through a battle most likely. But right now he just wants his kids.

And I think, in my opinion, he's always been this way. Since season one he's wanted to keep them secluded. I don't find it as a weakness as much as it's the love of a father overreaching the determination of a master.

But I do see where the frustration comes from. Splinter only resurfaces in a mid or season finale to really fight against Shredder.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 11:01 AM
I think the thing is...Splinter’s fine right now- with living hidden, with laying low.

And yeah, the sensei in him wants to end this, wants to fight it- get rid of Shredder for good.

But he's also a father. He just got his kids back, all of his kids back. And right now he just wants to breathe, just to enjoy them and be at peace.

Like Vicky said vengeance and vendetta are all the reasons why he's lost so much, lost his daughter for years, his wife forever, almost lost Leo plenty of times and, like in this ep, his sons get hurt- people get hurt.

So, yeah, he knows this will have to come to an end soon, through a battle most likely. But right now he just wants his kids.

And I think, in my opinion, he's always been this way. Since season one he's wanted to keep them secluded. I don't find it as a weakness as much as it's the love of a father overreaching the determination of a master.

But I do see where the frustration comes from. Splinter only resurfaces in a mid or season finale to really fight against Shredder.


Yeah and it was Shredder who did all of that so it makes since to completely eradicate the sickness before it spreads AGAIN, Splinter has a chance to permanently make sure his family is safe and as we seen in this episode them not doing anything is going to make the situation worse

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 11:07 AM
Well he should its money that employs a good chunk of his minions and its money that keeps his foot bots manufactured also I don't know if you noticed but Tiger Claw(you know Shredders most efficient Lieutenant) would probably leave if Shredder becomes too unstable Karai's idea while bullheaded and emotional was a good idea and its hell of a lot better than sitting around and having the turtles thumb up their asses and wait until Shredder has an army of Chrome Domes.

I think he only pays Tigerclaw and probably Rahzar, the rest of them were forced to join him.

Also he's probably making money in Japan as well, not just New York.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 11:16 AM
Should't the mid 40s Jounin who's family been attacked by Shredder offer her help like all 3 parties are somewhat in the wrong but this show is too stupid to tell Splinter that Karai idea was good and she needs guidance.

That's the thing though it WASN'T a good idea, and she re-FUSED help from him. She be stubborn.

On the topic of her plan she probably should've just gone STRAIGHT to the robots, THAN the other two rather than the money laundering operation and chemical factory that gave off her scent. Her attack lacked subtlety, "Go to place, blow it up, REPEAT!" The robot factory halts his army, the laundering and the chemicals were just dents in Shred-head's wallet.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 11:22 AM
I think he only pays Tigerclaw and probably Rahzar, the rest of them were forced to join him.

Also he's probably making money in Japan as well, not just New York.

Xever also gets payed and Karai could have her ninjas attack Shredder's money making place in Japan

That's the thing though it WASN'T a good idea, and she re-FUSED help from him. She be stubborn.

On the topic of her plan she probably should've just gone STRAIGHT to the robots, THAN the other two rather than the money laundering operation and chemical factory that gave off her scent. Her attack lacked subtlety, "Go to place, blow it up, REPEAT!" The robot factory halts his army, the laundering and the chemicals were just dents in Shred-head's wallet.

When did Splinter offer her help and yeah I agree she should've went straight to the robots but I think making dents in Shred head wallet is gonna hurt him a lot.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 11:27 AM
When did Splinter offer her help and yeah I argue she should've went straight to the robots but I think making dents in Shred head wallet is gonna hurt him a lot.

He didn't offer her help, he let Karai make her own decisions and she decided not to ask for help and instead made a terrible backwards plan. Plus as she said, destroying the robot factory wasn't about halting him, it was about destroying his possessions, HURTING him rather than stopping him. If she were truly trying to rebuild the honor of the Foot Clan, she'd be more strategic in where she'd attack first, rather than let herself be known letting her enemies prepare traps for her.

And I politely disagree, this is the Foot clan we're talking here, they got pockets ALL over the place.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 11:31 AM
He didn't offer her help, he let Karai make her own decisions and she decided not to ask for help and instead made a terrible backwards plan. Plus as she said, destroying the robots wasn't about halting him, it was about destroying his possessions, HURTING him rather than stopping him. If she were truly trying to rebuild the honor of the Foot Clan, she'd be more strategic in where she'd attack first, rather than let herself be known letting her enemies prepare traps for her.

And I politely disagree, this is the Foot clan we're talking here, they got pockets ALL over the place.

All the more reason for Splinter the adult should have offer her help he was right that Karai was too emotional in her schemes so he should've told he to look at it from a pragmatic view this is on Splinter's head to and Shredder having pockets all over the place is more reason to dent his wallet

TurtleTitan97
08-21-2016, 11:39 AM
That reference to the Nightwatcher was awesome. Overall, pretty decent episode.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 11:39 AM
All the more reason for Splinter the adult should have offer her help he was right that Karai was too emotional in her schemes so he should've told he to look at it from a pragmatic view this is on Splinter's head to and Shredder having pockets all over the place is more reason to dent his wallet

I think he didn't offer more constructive advice...because he knew she wouldn't listen. Preeeeeeeeeeetty sure he's in a "I've lost my baby girl" mind-set here.Granted that's just a theory.

As for wallet denting that's the thing, his network is SO big you won't be able to do more than just a few. It makes more sense to take out his soldiers.

drgon78
08-21-2016, 11:40 AM
Good episode, as usual, can't wait for the next.

Loved the look April gave Karai at the end of the episode.

I wonder who the real boss fight of the season finale will be, Super Shredder or Dark April.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 11:43 AM
Xever also gets payed and Karai could have her ninjas attack Shredder's money making place in Japan


I doubt it because Karai is probably more focused on New York than anywhere else and anyway she did say at the end she's stopping destroying Shredder's things and going after Shredder himself.

If she was getting Shredder things destroyed in Japan, it will still make things worse.

Also where is she getting her money from, she's got to pay those Foot Ninja's she's hired.

Xever was forced to join Shredder after he tried to steal from him so even he does get payed, it won't be much.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 11:46 AM
I think he didn't offer more constructive advice...because he knew she wouldn't listen. Preeeeeeeeeeetty sure he's in a "I've lost my baby girl" mind-set here.Granted that's just a theory.

As for wallet denting that's the thing, his network is SO big you won't be able to do more than just a few. It makes more sense to take out his soldiers.

He could've at least tried and also they could and did both and keep in mind the Chemical plant couldve been used to create more mutagen.

I doubt it because Karai is probably more focused on New York than anywhere else and anyway she did say at the end she's stopping destroying Shredder's things and going after Shredder himself.

If she was getting Shredder things destroyed in Japan, it will still make things worse.

Also where is she getting her money from, she's got to pay those Foot Ninja's she's hired.

Xever was forced to join Shredder after he tried to steal from him so even he does get payed, it won't be much.

1. Thats after Splinter chewed Karai out after choosing the smart direction

2. How would it make thing worse

3. Shredder must have cash somewhere as we seen in this episode.

4.Whats Shredder gonna do to Xever now the man is pretty much bedridden

Know that I think about should't Donnie offer turn some of Shredder's men back to human I mean I think they prefer human Xever over fishface

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 11:51 AM
That's the thing though it WASN'T a good idea, and she re-FUSED help from him. She be stubborn.

On the topic of her plan she probably should've just gone STRAIGHT to the robots, THAN the other two rather than the money laundering operation and chemical factory that gave off her scent. Her attack lacked subtlety, "Go to place, blow it up, REPEAT!" The robot factory halts his army, the laundering and the chemicals were just dents in Shred-head's wallet.

Exactly.

Splinter did specifically say that he understood her reasons for going after the Shredder. But he wished she would seek their assistance. Karai however said she needed to do this her own way and Splinter responded that yes she needed to find her own path even if he personally didn't approve of the one she has chosen and they would be there when she is ready.

Karai had said herself that her whole life has been nothing but hatred and revenge in Vengeance is Mine. That is all she had been taught by the Shredder so in her mind that is the only way to get things done. However, when she asks Splinter why he didn't seek vengeance for her mother, Splinter solemnly answers that he has found Vengeance only leads to more sorrow and pain. Which is true, vengeance is a never ending cycle that only destroys and causes more vengeance.


Take Damona from Gargoyle's for example. She has a vendetta against all humanity and has declared herself as judge, jury, and executioner for all crimes against her race at the hands humans.

However in one arc of episodes "City of Stone" we learn more about what caused this desire for vengeance and the whole thing is started by her own hand.

She convinces the captain of the guards to allow the Vikings to sack the castle and take all the humans but leave the Gargoyles alone. Just before dawn she tries to warn her rookery brother and sister (Othello and Desdemona) of the impending attack but thinks better of it and hides.

Just before nightfall, the Vikings decide to destroy the Gargoyles so they wouldn't follow and attack. The Captain of the Guard tries to convince the leader of the Vikings that the Gargoyles will not attack but in the end, he could only helplessly watch while the majority of clan wyvern is smashed to bits.

Damona wakes up and finds her clan slaughters, she sees Goliath and Hudson return and runs fearing she would be suspected of the murder of her clan. However, when she returns she finds Goliath and the surviving members of her clan have all been placed in an eternal stone sleep. She starts to regret what she has done but then turns and sees the Magus and the Princess loading the eggs from the rookery into a cart and convinces herself that the humans were responsible.

And at the end of the arc the Wyrd Sisters ask her a bunch of questions that essentially translate to her being the author of her own sorrow.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 11:52 AM
He could've at least tried and also they could and did both and keep in mind the Chemical plant couldve been used to create more mutagen.

The Chemical plant was used to make serum for the brain worms.

They can't make mutagen, the mutagen only comes from Dimension X slugs.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 11:58 AM
Exactly.

Splinter did specifically say that he understood her reasons for going after the Shredder. But he wished she would seek their assistance. Karai however said she needed to do this her own way and Splinter responded that yes she needed to find her own path even if he personally didn't approve of the one she has chosen and they would be there when she is ready.

Karai had said herself that her whole life has been nothing but hatred and revenge in Vengeance is Mine. That is all she had been taught by the Shredder so in her mind that is the only way to get things done. However, when she asks Splinter why he didn't seek vengeance for her mother, Splinter solemnly answers that he has found Vengeance only leads to more sorrow and pain. Which is true, vengeance is a never ending cycle that only destroys and causes more vengeance..

So instead of offering her help Splinter is just gonna let his daughter be killed, FATHER OF THE YEAR ladies and gentlemen.

The Chemical plant was used to make serum for the brain worms.

They can't make mutagen, the mutagen only comes from Dimension X slugs.

So you don't think destroying Shredders factory for brain worms is a good idea

The Happy One
08-21-2016, 11:58 AM
Yeah and it was Shredder who did all of that so it makes since to completely eradicate the sickness before it spreads AGAIN, Splinter has a chance to permanently make sure his family is safe and as we seen in this episode them not doing anything is going to make the situation worse

Yeah and it was Shredder who did all of that so it makes since to completely eradicate the sickness before it spreads AGAIN, Splinter has a chance to permanently make sure his family is safe and as we seen in this episode them not doing anything is going to make the situation worse

You make a good point.

But think of it as a father. No matter what, Splinter will see the end result, every move and decision as something he influenced.

So, sure, Shredder stabbed his wife; sure, Shredder took his daughter and consistently tries to murder his sons. Sure, it was all Shredder. But all those things happen because of the same motive behind Karai's current actions, y'know?

It's all vengeance. And it all leads to death in Splinter’s eyes.

And maybe that's why he won't act right now. Because maybe Splinter just doesn't know how to end Shredder without someone else- whether his sons, his daughter or the innocent- dead. That's, after all, all vengeance gets him. Death and hurt.

Because what did burning money and explosives do anyway? It's only going to slow down the inevitable. A final battle, obviously, has to happen.

Everyone- Splinter, his sons, Karai, April, Shredder- they all know that's what this'll come to.

Splinter can't just walk into Shredder's new little hideout home and kill him. Even if he did, what about the rest of the Foot?? This all has to be strategically planned out. And jumping all over the place and running into warehouses to strike out of blind rage and vengeance only winds up with someone hurt. Like Don.

I mean he's fine but...still, y’know..

Besides that, Splinter wants his kids to fight with, and out of, honor. Not rage, not vengeance.

And I don't think even he has mastered that- the ability to separate emotions from honor, from the right thing. Because every single time he attacks or strikes it's never truly separated from those emotions, and something bad happens.

And if you're still not convinced, bud, look at the last time they let vengeance get in the way- involving Karai at least. She got mutated.

So....I'm plenty sure Splinter has his reasons for laying low for now...

neatoman
08-21-2016, 12:01 PM
Does anyone else find it ironic that Karai is to blame for the human ninjas going away in the first place, and now she is responsible for not only bringing them back but also making the stupid robots go away as well?

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 12:07 PM
You make a good point.

But think of it as a father. No matter what, Splinter will see the end result, every move and decision as something he influenced.

So, sure, Shredder stabbed his wife; sure, Shredder took his daughter and consistently tries to murder his sons. Sure, it was all Shredder. But all those things happen because of the same motive behind Karai's current actions, y'know?

It's all vengeance. And it all leads to death in Splinter’s eyes.

And maybe that's why he won't act right now. Because maybe Splinter just doesn't know how to end Shredder without someone else- whether his sons, his daughter or the innocent- dead. That's, after all, all vengeance gets him. Death and hurt.

Because what did burning money and explosives do anyway? It's only going to slow down the inevitable. A final battle, obviously, has to happen.

Everyone- Splinter, his sons, Karai, April, Shredder- they all know that's what this'll come to.

Splinter can't just walk into Shredder's new little hideout home and kill him. Even if he did, what about the rest of the Foot?? This all has to be strategically planned out. And jumping all over the place and running into warehouses to strike out of blind rage and vengeance only winds up with someone hurt. Like Don.

I mean he's fine but...still, y’know..

Besides that, Splinter wants his kids to fight with, and out of, honor. Not rage, not vengeance.

And I don't think even he has mastered that- the ability to separate emotions from honor, from the right thing. Because every single time he attacks or strikes it's never truly separated from those emotions, and something bad happens.

And if you're still not convinced, bud, look at the last time they let vengeance get in the way- involving Karai at least. She got mutated.

So....I'm plenty sure Splinter has his reasons for laying low for now...

Shredder is an insane man who is willing to ally himself with an alien species who's main goal is the extinction of the human race that kind of man should not be allowed to live and again everything bad happened to Splinter or the people he cares about is because of Shredder the reason I'm pissed at this episode is because there is no nuance to it, its basically "you should't attack evil because of revenge" worst part about it is that Splinter was okay with the Turtles attacking Shredder's lair numerous of times. Leo, Karai and Splinter were in the wrong but the episode forgot to tell Splinter that also this is the same Splinter who back in season one said "Seek victory not fairness" what happened to that Splinter

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 12:09 PM
So instead of offering her help Splinter is just gonna let his daughter be killed, FATHER OF THE YEAR ladies and gentlemen.

What's he supposed to do, tie her up in the lair for the rest of her life.

He can't exactly follow her or people will see him.

Karai's possible over 18 years old so she's old enough to do her own things and if she is under 18 they can't exactly contact social services about her, she is part snake.

Shredder raised her to be vengeful so she won't able to be stopped.

Splinter is not going to let Karia get killed, why don't you wait to watch the upcoming episodes and see what happens and anyway it looks like she's in the next episode.

The Happy One
08-21-2016, 12:21 PM
Shredder is an insane man who is willing to ally himself with an alien species who's main goal is the extinction of the human race that kind of man should not be allowed to live and again everything bad happened to Splinter or the people he cares about is because of Shredder the reason I'm pissed at this episode is because there is no nuance to it, its basically "you should't attack evil because of revenge" worst part about it is that Splinter was okay with the Turtles attacking Shredder's lair numerous of times. Leo, Karai and Splinter were in the wrong but the episode forgot to tell Splinter that also this is the same Splinter who back in season one said "Seek victory not fairness" what happened to that Splinter

Life, my boy. Life. Splinter is aware of the danger, man. But things are different now, and a lot more complex than season one.

But I'll let you go...I get where you're coming from but I think there's a bigger picture here than just 'he's the enemy; go finish him'. There's bigger factors now than what once was.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 12:21 PM
What's he supposed to do, tie her up in the lair for the rest of her life.

He can't exactly follow her or people will see him.

Karai's possible over 18 years old so she's old enough to do her own things and if she is under 18 they can't exactly contact social services about her, she is part snake.

Shredder raised her to be vengeful so she won't able to be stopped.

Splinter is not going to let Karia get killed, why don't you wait to watch the upcoming episodes and see what happens and anyway it looks like she's in the next episode.

1. For the hundreth thousanth time, OFFER HER HELP

2.NINJA

3.Okay

4. So act like a father and help her or give her some advice

5.So he's just gonna let her be in danger instead of again helping her.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 12:24 PM
Life, my boy. Life. Splinter is aware of the danger, man. But things are different now, and a lot more complex than season one.

But I'll let you go...I get where you're coming from but I think there's a bigger picture here than just 'he's the enemy; go finish him'. There's bigger factors now than what once was.

What factors if Splinter doesn't do anything Shredder attacks him with an army of Chrome Dome look I get where Splinter is coming from but the episode should have at least made it clear that Splinter should attack Shredder my main problem with the episode is that its so one sided

The Happy One
08-21-2016, 12:28 PM
What factors if Splinter doesn't do anything Shredder attacks him with an army of Chrome Dome look I get where Splinter is coming from but the episode should have at least made it clear that Splinter should attack Shredder my main problem with the episode is that its so one sided

Oh okay...I get that...

It looks like Splinter just doesn't care right now about his kids' efforts to stop Shredder- or that he himself doesn't even possess the desire.

But I'm sure in the episodes leading up the finale will bring some light on this

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 12:36 PM
1. For the hundreth thousanth time, OFFER HER HELP

Leo did that and look what happened to Donnie.

4. So act like a father and help her or give her some advice

He has but she's so determined to get rid of Shredder because Shredder is an arsehole and lied and controlled her whole life.

5.So he's just gonna let her be in danger instead of again helping her.

Again wait for upcoming episodes and see what happens, with Super Shredder coming they obviously will be helping her.

Also she's not going to die, she's in season 5.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 12:42 PM
Leo did that and look what happened to Donnie.



He has but she's so determined to get rid of Shredder because Shredder is an arsehole and lied and controlled her whole life.



Again wait for upcoming episodes and see what happens, with Super Shredder coming they obviously will be helping her.

Also she's not going to die, she's in season 5.

1.Leo also didn't tell Donnie what he was doing so again all the more reason to help her and take down Shredder more efficiently.

2.Well she's right, Shredder needs to be brought down

3. And they can't help her now this is the perfect time to cripple Shredder's empire

matteso586
08-21-2016, 12:43 PM
I did not know that Chompy can breath fire. Then I remembered one of Tokka's powers.

A bit disappointed that this episode doesn't have a flashback of Karai's childhood.

This probably wasn't the first time Karai had to use shapeshifting to heal her own injuries.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 12:51 PM
1.Leo also didn't tell Donnie what he was doing so again all the more reason to help her and take down Shredder more efficiently.

Even if they all helped her with her vengeance someone else will probably get badly injured.

3. And they can't help her now this is the perfect time to cripple Shredder's empire

Well they can't help her now, the next episode is next Sunday and that episode could happen a day after this episode.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 12:55 PM
Even if they all helped her with her vengeance someone else will probably get badly injured.



Well they can't help her now, the next episode is next Sunday and that episode could happen a day after this episode.

1. They're gonna get badly injured regardless what they do with the Shredder the point of the matter is how badly injured they will be and spoiler warning if Karai had not attacked the Bot factory these guys would've had to fight an army of Chrome Dome.

2 .Thats my point during the episode Splinter should've offered her help

BubblyShell22
08-21-2016, 01:04 PM
Awesome episode. I love Leo's new gear though I agree he was stupid for helping Karai and not telling his bros what was going on. I also liked the Nightwatcher reference and how Raph was mad about what Leo did. I agree that attacking out of revenge is the wrong thing to do and that's why Splinter doesn't want to attack Shredder in that way. He doesn't want to stoop to his enemy's level of hatred. Karai's plan was interesting but she went about it the wrong way. Sadly, she hasn't learned her lesson and she's going to get into even more trouble because of it.

Overall, a very decent episode. Can't wait for next week's.

TMNTInsighter
08-21-2016, 01:07 PM
I'm with greg on this by the way. He's right. They are going to have to put an end to this whole conflict sooner or later and I'm all for it if the events leading up to the finale are preparation for it (in addition to helping others who need it via fillers or fillers with some relevance to the main conflict) instead of either hurting or direct contact, but they are going to have to fight Shredder and his forces with the same desire and determination that Karai inhabits sooner or later.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 01:11 PM
1. They're gonna get badly injured regardless what they do with the Shredder the point of the matter is how badly injured they will be and spoiler warning if Karai had not attacked the Bot factory these guys would've had to fight an army of Chrome Dome.

Yeah they still be getting injured but it will be in a controlled situation. If they do it the vengeful way they won't be in there right mind and the situation will become a lot worse.

I expect they will still be fighting an army of Chrome Dome in upcoming episodes anyway. Blowing up the factory isn't going to stop it, Shredder might have another secret factory somewhere.

2 .Thats my point during the episode Splinter should've offered her help


You obviously didn't get my sarcasm in that but anyway she's not going after Shredder straight away, she doesn't know where he is.

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 01:17 PM
The seek victory, not fairness and the Don't do as your enemies do are a two parts of the same lesson.

As a whole, it's essentially "Your enemy will not fight fairly, so win by any means necessary, but don't sink to the same level of your enemy."


The one thing that truly sets the Turtles and the Foot apart is how they face their battles. The Turtles are a team and in every incarnation, their greatest battles have been won through their reliance on each other's unity and strength and those they consider honorary family and allies. And when someone is lost they all feel like they lost part of themselves.

The Shredder doesn't have such ties finding strength and power are much more useful in a fight than having allies. Because of this the people he hires for his cause with are not so much allies as much as they are living tools and weapons to be used until they are no longer useful. If Tiger Claw, or Bradford, anyone goes down in a battle. The Shredder would have absolutely no remorse, and while it will set him back somewhat he still would be able to replace them to a degree.

He joins forces with the Kraang simply because they also have the same goal of killing the Turtles. But Shredder has stated he would destroy the Kraang once Splinter, the Turtles, and their allies have been destroyed. And he's crazy enough to let the world be destroyed around him for the sake of killing Splinter once and for all.


Karai has a good idea yes, but her methods are more likely to get herself killed then solve anything. So Splinter is telling her that if she actually stopped and thought about it she would realize she has a number of allies to help her cause, but it has to be her choice to side with them not simply because Splinter is her father.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 01:19 PM
Yeah they still be getting injured but it will be in a controlled situation. If they do it the vengeful way they won't be in there right mind and the situation will become a lot worse.

I expect they will still be fighting an army of Chrome Dome in upcoming episodes anyway. Blowing up the factory isn't going to stop it, Shredder might have another secret factory somewhere.



You obviously didn't get my sarcasm in that but anyway she's not going after Shredder straight away, she doesn't know where he is.

Lets say Splinter offered her help and the turtles joined forces with Karai and destory some of Shredder's factory how would it be more dangerous compared to the stuff they do know, the only difference is that they are acting instead of reacting.

Also if Shredder has another factory then its all the more reason to destroy that factory because the Chrome Dome army would at least be cut in one fourth

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 01:21 PM
I did not know that Chompy can breath fire. Then I remembered one of Tokka's powers.

A bit disappointed that this episode doesn't have a flashback of Karai's childhood.

This probably wasn't the first time Karai had to use shapeshifting to heal her own injuries.

Well she is a mutant snake. What do snakes do but shed their skin.

oldmanwinters
08-21-2016, 01:24 PM
So the 2007 movie is loose canon now? Guess that Fugitoid space adventure really wrecked the time line!

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 01:31 PM
Lets say Splinter offered her help and the turtles joined forces with Karai and destory some of Shredder's factory how would it be more dangerous compared to the stuff they do know, the only difference is that they are acting instead of reacting.

Also if Shredder has another factory then its all the more reason to destroy that factory because the Chrome Dome army would at least be cut in one fourth

As I said in previous posts destroying Shredder's factory's, is not going to stop him because it will make him more agitated, more insane and more of reason to destroy the turtles and Splinter. He will start again and keep going.

Remember Casey Jones vs The Underworld, they stopped his plans but it was only temporary he still continued on making the serum for the brain worms for Karia.

So the 2007 movie is loose canon now? Guess that Fugitoid space adventure really wrecked the time line!

No it was a reference to the 2007 movie.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 01:39 PM
As I said in previous posts destroying Shredder's factory's, is not going to stop him because it will make him more agitated and more insane and more of reason to destroy the turtles and Splinter. He will start again and keep going.

Remember Casey Jones vs The Underworld, they stopped his plans but it was only temporary he still continued on making the serum for the brain worms for Karia.


What do you mean more this is the same guy who risked the world to kill Shredder if he was anymore agitated he would've died from an anuresm

So temporary is good and at least they are doing something and getting something out of it and at least they got some information

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 01:47 PM
He offered her help last episode, and she refused. He ain't a man to waste his time.

Plus it should also be said that they don't know ALL of the Foot Clan's new secrets, going after them at THIS point(feuled with revenge or otherwise) is a bad idea.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 01:56 PM
What do you mean more this is the same guy who risked the world to kill Shredder if he was anymore agitated he would've died from an anuresm

So temporary is good and at least they are doing something and getting something out of it and at least they got some information


What are you talking about, I'm talking about Shredder no one else. i'll repost it with a few changes

As I said in previous posts destroying Shredder's factory's is not going to stop him because it will make him more agitated and more insane and more of reason to destroy the turtles and Splinter.

Remember the episode Casey Jones vs The Underworld, they stopped Shredders plans but it was only temporary and he still continued on making the serum for the brain worms for Karia when they cleaned up the factory.

No temporary isn't good, even though they have destroyed his factory's Shredder will re build and make new Foot Bots. If the turtles destroy that factory Shredder will start again. He will continue on and he won't care if there's a set back he just wants the turtles and splinter dead.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 02:06 PM
He offered her help last episode, and she refused. He ain't a man to waste his time.

Plus it should also be said that they don't know ALL of the Foot Clan's new secrets, going after them at THIS point(feuled with revenge or otherwise) is a bad idea.

No he was against her stopping the Shredder remember also the more reason for Splinter offer help

What are you talking about, I'm talking about Shredder no one else. i'll repost it with a few changes



No temporary isn't good, even though they have destroyed his factory's Shredder will re build and make new Foot Bots. If the turtles destroy that factory Shredder will start again. He will continue on and he won't care if there's a set back he just wants the turtles and splinter dead.

I ment to say Shredder risked the world to trying to kill Splinter also how is temporary not good thing at least its doing something and Shredder has to spend money to rebuild the factories and less foot bots mean less hassle the problem with all of this is that the Hamato clan aren't acting but instead reacting this is jarring when there is a madman with large resources trying to kill them on every turn.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 02:22 PM
Yes he did, last episode he asked Karai to stay and let him help, but she said no and said that she had to forge her own path.

And this is a temporary set-back for him in that he'll be up and running next week, WITH more guards.

ALSO...I don't know how to ask this without being mean, but PLEASE learn to write better, its a little jarring. I really don't want to sound mean here, but its just hard to read at times.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 02:29 PM
Yes he did, last episode he asked Karai to stay and let him help, but she said no and said that she had to forge her own path.

And this is a temporary set-back for him in that he'll be up and running next week, WITH more guards.



Whats the point in staying though could't they communicate with each other with both parties in separate locations also why didn't he offer her help again its not too out of character for Splinter to repeat himself and if Karai wants to do it alone why did she allied with Leo, the writing in this series is more flip flopy then Hillary Clinton

Also more guards means Shredder will be more vulnerable and more of his factories or hideouts would be ripe for the taking.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 02:33 PM
No he was against her stopping the Shredder remember also the more reason for Splinter offer help

I ment to say Shredder risked the world to trying to kill Splinter also how is temporary not good thing at least its doing something and Shredder has to spend money to rebuild the factories and less foot bots mean less hassle the problem with all of this is that the Hamato clan aren't acting but instead reacting this is jarring when there is a madman with large resources trying to kill them on every turn.

Even if he had no money and no Foot Bots he will still find a way to kill Splinter and the turtles.

CyberCubed
08-21-2016, 02:36 PM
Pretty good ep, and I like that we have human Foot Soldiers back in the mix now, would definitely like to see more of them.

Hun was taken out pretty quickly, and its obvious Bebop/Rocksteady are mostly comic relief. Tiger Claw has really been failing a lot lately, makes you wonder if it'll lead to a character arc for him.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 02:36 PM
Whats the point in staying though could't they communicate with each other with both parties in separate locations also why didn't he offer her help again its not too out of character for Splinter to repeat himself and if Karai wants to do it alone why did she allied with Leo, the writing in this series is more flip flopy then Hillary Clinton

Also more guards means Shredder will be more vulnerable and more of his factories or hideouts would be ripe for the taking.

Its not THAT flip floppy....also good Hillary dis, but really once again PLEASE work on your sentence structure its...taxing.

Nnnnnnnnnnnno I don't think so, actually ironically the more places they destroy, the less they have to spread out their ranks, making it harder as it goes along.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 02:36 PM
Even if he had no money and no Foot Bots he will still find a way to kill Splinter and the turtles.

Well i guess the Hamato Clan need to kill Shredder seriously even the 2k3 turtles knew it was a good idea to kill Shredder and the IDW version had Splinter decapitate him is it really vengeance if you kill a man who is trying time and time again to kill you.


Nnnnnnnnnnnno I don't think so, actually ironically the more places they destroy, the less they have to spread out their ranks, making it harder as it goes along.

Thats all the more reason for them to destroy their hideouts, ever heard the term "Divide and Conquer" if you can't Divide you can't Conquer the Foot lacking the ability to spread out their ranks only hurts them seriously this whole season could've been the systemic action of destroying the Foot when Shredder is at his weakest.

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 02:41 PM
Well i guess the Hamato Clan need to kill Shredder seriously even the 2k3 turtles knew it was a good idea to kill Shredder and the IDW version had Splinter decapitate him is it really vengeance if you kill a man who is trying time and time again to kill you.

In the IDW Shredder committed Seppuku, ritualized suicide.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 02:41 PM
Its less about killing Shredder, and more the horrifying risks that can come with it.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 02:46 PM
In the IDW Shredder committed Seppuku, ritualized suicide.

Well it was little bit of both but IDW Splinter knew at the end at least that Shredder was going to be nothing but a problem and he needed to end the squabble.

Its less about killing Shredder, and more the horrifying risks that can come with it.

Like what exactly.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 02:55 PM
Well i guess the Hamato Clan need to kill Shredder seriously even the 2k3 turtles knew it was a good idea to kill Shredder and the IDW version had Splinter decapitate him is it really vengeance if you kill a man who is trying time and time again to kill you.

In the 2k3 show the turtles going after Shredder was vengeance but in a controlled way because Shredder thought they were killed in April's shop explosion so he was caught off guard.

In vengeance is mine Karai took off on her own to kill Shredder but this vengeance wasn't in a controlled situation because Shredder was expecting it and Karai ended up getting mutated.

In today's episode destroying Shredder's things was vengeance and it wasn't in a controlled situation and Leo admitted he didn't have it under control. Tiger Claw knew they were going to destroy the chemical plant and the Foot Bot Factory because he knew Karai was going around destroying things.

So basically if the Turtles, Splinter and Karia go after Shredder, it has to be in a controlled situation, have a good plan and know when Shredder will least expect it, if not then everything can go wrong.

Ashwolf
08-21-2016, 03:00 PM
despite the ep feeling a bit rushed, personally feel like it shouldve lasted 2 eps(although there still is the bit from that concept art that should happen) but it still was pretty good

think its sweet how chompy can breathe fire

considering how mikey has ick as a pet while raph has chompy (and don has metalhead as a pet, if u wouldve even count that) curious about/if leo will eventually have 1 also and if he does, then on which type itll be

In the 2k3 show the turtles going after Shredder was vengeance but in a controlled way because Shredder thought they were killed in April's shop explosion so he was caught off guard.

In vengeance is mine Karai took off on her own to kill Shredder but this vengeance wasn't in a controlled situation because Shredder was expecting it and Karai ended up getting mutated.

In today's episode destroying Shredder's things was vengeance and it wasn't in a controlled situation and Leo admitted he didn't have it under control. Tiger Claw knew they were going to destroy the chemical plant and the Foot Bot Factory because he knew Karai was going around destroying things.

So basically if the Turtles, Splinter and Karia go after Shredder, it has to be in a controlled situation, have a good plan and know when Shredder will least expect it, if not then everything can go wrong.

also from the beginning of the ep, it kinda felt implied that it wasnt the 1st of shredders operations/buildings they destroyed

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 03:08 PM
Like what exactly.
Like all his sons dying in the process from fighting all Shredder's super armies.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 03:11 PM
In the 2k3 show the turtles going after Shredder was vengeance but in a controlled way because Shredder thought they were killed in April's shop explosion so he was caught off guard.

In vengeance is mine Karai took off on her own to kill Shredder but this vengeance wasn't in a controlled situation because Shredder was expecting it and Karai ended up getting mutated.

In today's episode destroying Shredder's things was vengeance and it wasn't in a controlled situation and Leo admitted he didn't have it under control. Tiger Claw knew they were going to destroy the chemical plant and the Foot Bot Factory because he knew Karai was going around destroying things.

So basically if the Turtles, Splinter and Karia go after Shredder, it has to be in a controlled situation, have a good plan and know when Shredder will least expect it, if not then everything can go wrong.

1.During that "Controlled way" they had to fight their way thru Lasers, Ninjas, mutants and mystics not anything different compared to the way they were were fighting Shredder beforehand also again Shredder is weakened so this is the perfect chance to strike.

2. All the more reason for them to work together

3. It was also about hurting his resources and they still made out alive, the only thing Leo should have done was told his brother.

4.Again this the best time to go after Shredder, the dude is weak now and they can spend that moment crippling his empire and building weaponry to combat against Shredder

Like all his sons dying in the process from fighting all Shredder's super armies.

I said it once and I'll say it again all the more reason to attack him now, if Shredder wants something he will try his damndest to do it regardless of what happens also doesn't Donnie have that anti mutagen thing with him or can't he make more? With that, the idea of a super army is pretty much useless at this point.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 03:17 PM
Yeah about Shredder being WEAK...you do remember the mutagen transfusion right? ALSO-they had no idea he was weak before, they had no idea WHAT was going on after the Triceraton invasion.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 03:20 PM
Yeah about Shredder being WEAK...you do remember the mutagen transfusion right? ALSO-they had no idea he was weak before, they had no idea WHAT was going on after the Triceraton invasion.

Splinter should at least known the technique he did to Shredder should've at least incapacitated him for a few months.

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 03:26 PM
Splinter should at least known the technique he did to Shredder should've at least incapacitated him for a few months.

It was a pressure point jab against SHREDDER, the dude was bitten by a giant croco-man and walked it off.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 03:27 PM
It was a pressure point jab against SHREDDER, the dude was bitten by a giant croco-man and walked it off.

There is a difference between physical attacks and pressure points so again Splinter should've at least known Shredder would've been incapacitated

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 03:32 PM
There is a difference between physical attacks and pressure points so again Splinter should've at least known Shredder would've been incapacitated

I don't think he would have, considering he never said the attack was a super incapacitating move, and even if it was he'd just need the right acupuncturist to heal him up.

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 03:32 PM
1.During that "Controlled way" they had to fight their way thru Lasers, Ninjas, mutants and mystics not anything different compared to the way they were were fighting Shredder beforehand also again Shredder is weakened so this is the perfect chance to strike.

2. All the more reason for them to work together


If they all went out that night Shredder would be still be expecting it and probably would have captured them and still mutated Karai.

3. It was also about hurting his resources and they still made out alive, the only thing Leo should have done was told his brother.


They would still be in the same situation if he did tell his brothers. Tiger Claw knew they were coming because they were destroying stuff. Donnie still could of gotten injured but in a different way.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 03:39 PM
If they all went out that night Shredder would be still be expecting it and probably would have captured them and still mutated Karai.

I was referring the the 2k3 version.



They would still be in the same situation if he did tell his brothers. Tiger Claw knew they were coming because they were destroying stuff. Donnie still could of gotten injured but in a different way.

1. So Tiger Claw already knew they were coming and they still blew up the factory and 2 how the hell would Donnie get hurt, the reason why he got hurt is because Leo didn't tell his brother what he was doing

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 03:39 PM
In order to commit Seppuku the person who is committing the act opens their abdomen with a blade. In this case the Shredder uses his own Tagaki to perform this task, and then another designated person decapitates the dying warrior so that they don't suffer in agony while they pass on to the next world.

In Splinter's heart there is no honor or redemption in seeking revenge. Look at it this way. Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki had been raised together and lived with one another as brothers. And even though Oroku Saki was not his brother by blood, in his heart he had cared for his friend. While he knows the friendly ties he once had with his former friend are severed, Oroku Saki still is the only tie he has to his past. And perhaps a small piece of the man he had once known as his brother and friend still remains in some way.

Splinter doesn't kill his friend because of a little thing about Karma. For example I consider myself a wiccan, I don't practice the wiccan religion or participate in any solstice rights but I do study the culture. One of the tenets that is followed in some forms of the religion is the Three-Fold Law AKA the Karmic Law of Three, which translates that what we do both good and bad comes back to us three-fold.

And that is why Splinter doesn't go out of his way to kill Shredder because he knows the Shredder is already dead and there is little point in killing what is already dead. It's just a matter of the Shredder's karma catching up to him. Be it through his own selfish action or finally realizing the error of his ways and choosing to end himself with whatever scrap of honor he has left.

oldmanwinters
08-21-2016, 03:44 PM
The U.S. Government totally needs to bill Leonardo and Karai for setting fire to the currency.

Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 700; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(B), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2146.)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 03:44 PM
I don't think he would have, considering he never said the attack was a super incapacitating move, and even if it was he'd just need the right acupuncturist to heal him up.

Lets just say Shredder is fine and dandy, what is the downside of attacking his plants or factories, it only going to hurt him and forces him to deal with the problem personally which means the Hamato clan can have their chance in killing him, there aren't a lot of downsides to Karai's plan just the fact that she is too emotional.

In order to commit Seppuku the person who is committing the act opens their abdomen with a blade. In this case the Shredder uses his own Tagaki to perform this task, and then another designated person decapitates the dying warrior so that they don't suffer in agony while they pass on to the next world.

In Splinter's heart there is no honor or redemption in seeking revenge. Look at it this way. Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki had been raised together and lived with one another as brothers. And even though Oroku Saki was not his brother by blood, in his heart he had cared for his friend. While he knows the friendly ties he once had with his former friend are severed, Oroku Saki still is the only tie he has to his past. And perhaps a small piece of the man he had once known as his brother and friend still remains in some way.

Splinter doesn't kill his friend because of a little thing about Karma. For example I consider myself a wiccan, I don't practice the wiccan religion or participate in any solstice rights but I do study the culture. One of the tenets that is followed in some forms of the religion is the Three-Fold Law AKA the Karmic Law of Three, which translates that what we do both good and bad comes back to us three-fold.

And that is why Splinter doesn't go out of his way to kill Shredder because he knows the Shredder is already dead and there is little point in killing what is already dead. It's just a matter of the Shredder's karma catching up to him. Be it through his own selfish action or finally realizing the error of his ways and choosing to end himself with whatever scrap of honor he has left.

I know about Seppuku thank you but Splinter still knew Shredder was problematic and sooner or later had to stop him

And Shredder is a man who is willing to sell out his own species if it means not only killing Yoshi but also emotionally torturing him Shredder will stop at nothing to do this and the more Splinter waits the more Shredder's army will get stronger and bigger not only that more people will get hurt, at this point of the series Yoshi needs to kill Shredder not for the sake of revenge but for the sake of protection

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 04:04 PM
I was referring the the 2k3 version.

I was referring to this, i'll do it again.

Me - In vengeance is mine Karai took off on her own to kill Shredder but this vengeance wasn't in a controlled situation because Shredder was expecting it and Karai ended up getting mutated.

You - 2. All the more reason for them to work together

Me - If they all went out that night Shredder would be still be expecting it and probably would have captured them and still mutated Karai.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 04:08 PM
I was referring to this, i'll do it again.

Then why didn't you delete my 1. Quote also the reason why Karai was mutated was because she was outnumbered of she had some turtle power(can't believe I said that) the whole mutant thing could've been avoided

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 04:10 PM
Lets just say Shredder is fine and dandy, what is the downside of attacking his plants or factories, it only going to hurt him and forces him to deal with the problem personally which means the Hamato clan can have their chance in killing him, there aren't a lot of downsides to Karai's plan just the fact that she is too emotional.



Okay I know your going to ignore me again but PLEASE, enough with the run-on sentences.

Well for one they cause massive fires which could hurt people, plus it gives their enemy even MORE reason to hate them feuling his crazy plans.

And yes...yes there are a lot of downsides to Karai's plans. For one, it involves a severe lack of recon, she just wanted to find the location and end it, and that's probably how she's gonna deal with the Shredder too. And know what will happen THEN? She gets owned by Super Shredder, and the massive amount of guards he has.

Ninjinister
08-21-2016, 04:23 PM
The U.S. Government totally needs to bill Leonardo and Karai for setting fire to the currency.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333

Shoulda donated that shiz to charity at least

Vicky82
08-21-2016, 04:24 PM
Then why didn't you delete my 1. Quote also the reason why Karai was mutated was because she was outnumbered of she had some turtle power(can't believe I said that) the whole mutant thing could've been avoided

I forgot.

It could have been avoided if Shredder didn't use Karai as bait to trap the turtles and Splinter.

Shredder was planning to capture and mutate the turtles into mindless serpents to defeat Splinter. It obviously didn't work because Karai ended up getting mutated instead.

So even if they all went with Karia defeat Shredder, they still would have all been captured because of Shredder's plan.

I had enough now, i'm going to bed.

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 04:25 PM
Okay I know your going to ignore me again but PLEASE, enough with the run-on sentences.

Well for one they cause massive fires which could hurt people, plus it gives their enemy even MORE reason to hate them feuling his crazy plans.

And yes...yes there are a lot of downsides to Karai's plans. For one, it involves a severe lack of recon, she just wanted to find the location and end it, and that's probably how she's gonna deal with the Shredder too. And know what will happen THEN? She gets owned by Super Shredder, and the massive amount of guards he has.

For the hundrenth time Shredder is the type of person who would sell his own species for murder.

I just said she was too emotional the idea of destroying Shredders crap was a good idea.

As for the last paragraph thats gonna happen regardless and the number of guards he has isn't going to be that massive after Karai destroyed the factory

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 04:33 PM
So Tiger Claw already knew they were coming and they still blew up the factory and 2 how the hell would Donnie get hurt, the reason why he got hurt is because Leo didn't tell his brother what he was doing

If Leo had told them about what was going on. The other Turtles would have tried to convince him not to go or told him why he shouldn't follow Karai.

Leo had said that he felt he should involve his brother and Karai said his brothers weren't interested because they were too busy following what Splinter told them about vengeance being bad. Even if Leo and his brothers readily sided with Karai and her ideals, yeah they may have succeeded in this mission or the one after it but eventually sooner or later Donnie, or Mikey, or even Raph would have gotten hurt and possibly killed and Leo would blame himself for involving them.

Donnie got hurt this time because had seen the explosives that Karai had planted and automatically knew he had to get Mikey, Raph out of there and was seriously injured as a result. Leo saw Raph and Mikey carrying Donnie and is horrified that one of his brothers is badly injured and says he should have told his brothers what was going on. Even Karai is concerned when she learns Donatello had been injured.

However, she is still to blinded by her ambition and anger towards the Shredder to rationally see that she's playing a dangerous game and that she is out of her depth. For all Karai's bravado, she and Shini are barely able to survive on their own against Tiger Claw. And when Leo does show up to help her, her response is always "Why weren't you here five minutes ago?" Or "I had it handled!"

Yoshimickster
08-21-2016, 04:43 PM
For the hundrenth time Shredder is the type of person who would sell his own species for murder.

I just said she was too emotional the idea of destroying Shredders crap was a good idea.

As for the last paragraph thats gonna happen regardless and the number of guards he has isn't going to be that massive after Karai destroyed the factory
True, but its still best not to poke the hornet's nest.

Okay I want you to look at your second sentence, what is it missing there?

Yes, because there's NO WAY he doesn't have another factory. Once again, RECON!

lonewarrior20
08-21-2016, 04:52 PM
i really enjoyed this one. can't wait for next weeks. at least we're finding out about more of karais abilities. as for everyone talking about the move splinter did to incapacitate shredder, maybe it was a secret hamato version of the death touch, since them having to give shredder mutagen to try and heal him. also i wonder how much karais ninjas are getting paid. i really want to see a scene of one of the ninjas saying this.
ninja: we're only fighting you because we're payed to.
rocksteady: you got payed?

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 04:54 PM
If Leo had told them about what was going on. The other Turtles would have tried to convince him not to go or told him why he shouldn't follow Karai.

Leo had said that he felt he should involve his brother and Karai said his brothers weren't interested because they were too busy following what Splinter told them about vengeance being bad. Even if Leo and his brothers readily sided with Karai and her ideals, yeah they may have succeeded in this mission or the one after it but eventually sooner or later Donnie, or Mikey, or even Raph would have gotten hurt and possibly killed and Leo would blame himself for involving them.

Donnie got hurt this time because had seen the explosives that Karai had planted and automatically knew he had to get Mikey, Raph out of there and was seriously injured as a result. Leo saw Raph and Mikey carrying Donnie and is horrified that one of his brothers is badly injured and says he should have told his brothers what was going on. Even Karai is concerned when she learns Donatello had been injured.

However, she is still to blinded by her ambition and anger towards the Shredder to rationally see that she's playing a dangerous game and that she is out of her depth. For all Karai's bravado, she and Shini are barely able to survive on their own against Tiger Claw. And when Leo does show up to help her, her response is always "Why weren't you here five minutes ago?" Or "I had it handled!"

Again at least he could've told them what he was doing or stay away from certain factories or building because Karai was bombing them. Also so what if they get hurt they fight dangerous people and get hurt all the time hell Leatherhead is an ally and he badly injures Donnie even when more than the Foot does

And again all the more reason the Hamato clan should have helped Karai

True, but its still best not to poke the hornet's nest.

Okay I want you to look at your second sentence, what is it missing there?

Yes, because there's NO WAY he doesn't have another factory. Once again, RECON!


Or what Shredder will spend his ever waking life killing the Hamato clan.

Dude this is an Internet Forum, run on sentences aren't that much of a problem just be happy I can spell "fueling" correctly

All the more reason to continue bombing factories.

Powder
08-21-2016, 04:55 PM
Much better than last week, & a decent episode overall, but as Aaronardo said, there were still some similarly questionable aspects. Things that felt a bit out of character, or were handled poorly. I do really like the general idea of taking down all of Shredder's stuff from the inside out, certain character beats, Leo's look, etc.

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 05:05 PM
Again at least he could've told them what he was doing or stay away from certain factories or building because Karai was bombing them. Also so what if they get hurt they fight dangerous people and get hurt all the time hell Leatherhead is an ally and he badly injures Donnie even when more than the Foot does

And again all the more reason the Hamato clan should have helped Karai

If he had told them Karai was going after Places that were fronts for the Shredder, the others would have told him they need to stop her not help her.

Splinter had also told the turtles that as Ninja they need to stay in the shadows. Karai setting explosives or fires to take out the Shredder's facilities would only draw attention to them and of course the question of who is causing them. And regardless of their involvement or not, the Turtles would eventually be seen and held suspect simply because they were in the area or whatever circomstances such as the Turtle Van or ShellRaiser being seen leaving these areas one too many times.

lonewarrior20
08-21-2016, 05:07 PM
speaking of the turtle van do you think its in a police impound lot after this episode?

PApagreg
08-21-2016, 05:09 PM
If he had told them Karai was going after Places that were fronts for the Shredder, the others would have told him they need to stop her not help her.

Splinter had also told the turtles that as Ninja they need to stay in the shadows. Karai setting explosives or fires to take out the Shredder's facilities would only draw attention to them and of course the question of who is causing them. And regardless of their involvement or not, the Turtles would eventually be seen and held suspect simply because they were in the area or whatever circomstances such as the Turtle Van or ShellRaiser being seen leaving these areas one too many times.

Would they, so far they didn't really cared about Karai blowing crap up until they notice Leo was gone

Also Splinter also said "Do lots of harm" and what do you mean held suspect so far barely anyone knows they exist and its not like they have a reputation.

Powder
08-21-2016, 05:16 PM
speaking of the turtle van do you think its in a police impound lot after this episode?

I'd bet we'll see it again soon without any explanation for how they got it back. :tlol:

LeotheLateBloomer
08-21-2016, 05:22 PM
Not a bad episode. Much better than last week's. I would have liked a scene showing how Karai asked Leo for help before she and Shini sneak into the temple. Still pretty enjoyable. Is this the first time this series borrowed from IDW?

ToTheNines
08-21-2016, 05:39 PM
Someone needs to make a senpai meme of Shinigami lol.

victory_angel
08-21-2016, 06:17 PM
Would they, so far they didn't really cared about Karai blowing crap up until they notice Leo was gone

Also Splinter also said "Do lots of harm" and what do you mean held suspect so far barely anyone knows they exist and its not like they have a reputation.

In a way it parallels the ending of rise of the turtles part 2.

In that episode the turtles left a Ninja star behind which was recovered by the police and there was a fluff piece about ninja in New York on the news. Splinter tells his sons that such carelessness could have far reaching consiquences. To which Raph scoffs and says "what is the worst that could happen?" And soon after Shredder comes to New York.

The turtles have been exposed to the city before and while that one time has been brushed off as a group of kids playing dress up. There is a Humans vs. Mutants arc that will be coming up some point in this season or next

oldmanwinters
08-21-2016, 08:06 PM
Shoulda donated that shiz to charity at least

Quite right! Mirage Turtles totally would have done something like that... at least the Volume 4 era. Maybe a Marine Wildlife foundation or something? :tcool:

CyberCubed
08-21-2016, 09:15 PM
So unless I missed it, was any explanation of Leo's black bandana stated?

Jester
08-21-2016, 09:16 PM
So unless I missed it, was any explanation of Leo's black bandana stated?
Stealth?

Seriously, there was no in-episode explanation.

GoldMutant
08-21-2016, 09:17 PM
So unless I missed it, was any explanation of Leo's black bandana stated?

Besides saying Leo's done it for a while, (not specified though how long and it's time period after City at War) no explanation present.

FredWolfLeonardo
08-21-2016, 09:33 PM
Great episode that I enjoyed but on a wider note, I think its great to see Karai in action as an ally of the turtles and Splinter, something which I wanted to see very badly ever since "Showdown"

Darth Knuckles
08-21-2016, 09:50 PM
Another good episode I thought. So are we now to believe that Shinigami can not transform into a cat and that she just owns a cat since we see her with one in Shredder's old hideout? That's what I'm taking from that scene. And even Shinigami's bats seemed to disappear more abruptly than I remember them doing last time. So maybe she's just more of an illusionist than an actual witch in reality. I'm totally fine with that too if that's what their going for.

I also liked the Nightwatcher reference from the 2007 movie. I was totally thinking that during the episode anyway so it makes sense that they would mention it themselves. By the way, does anyone have a big banner/screenshot of the new hero/villain "crawl" they show in the new opening during the theme song?

Ninjinister
08-21-2016, 09:57 PM
Quite right! Mirage Turtles totally would have done something like that... at least the Volume 4 era. Maybe a Marine Wildlife foundation or something? :tcool:

Sounds like more of an Archie thing ha ha

TheCollector
08-21-2016, 11:16 PM
Has Hun been in this before? I honestly can't remember.

Powder
08-21-2016, 11:23 PM
The show, in general? Yeah. Casey Jones Vs. The Underworld was his debut. He had a part in Meet Mondo Gecko, too.

CyberCubed
08-22-2016, 12:08 AM
Has Hun been in this before? I honestly can't remember.

He literally had a whole episode in his debut.

DVD
08-22-2016, 05:46 AM
Cool episode , even if most was set in the not so cool smelting factory ...
Nice to see a direct continuation from last week. A few more laughs here as well.

The new look Leo sort of reminded me of the Battle Gear figures from the 2K3 line.

JH24
08-22-2016, 05:56 AM
Entertaining and action-packed episode. Really enjoyed it. Only thing that annoys me a bit is Karai's stubborn attitude. She's in way over her head, and she would have been done for without Leo.

I do like the relationship/dynamic between them. In a way, Karai has a certain influence/leverage over him and she knows it. I liked Leo's storyline in this episode and how in the end he did the right thing and asked his brothers for help.

shredder orokusaki
08-22-2016, 07:00 AM
No i didntl ike the episode because they desroyed my foot bot facility and chemical plant But i will take my revenge very soon

Yoshimickster
08-22-2016, 10:25 AM
Stop typing from you phone Shredder, your mutant fingers are messing up your words.

ON THE TOPIC OF KARAI'S MUTATION....anyone else think the turtles could/should get powers? Maybe a "Hyper Mutation" like in the Red Sky season.

TMNTInsighter
08-22-2016, 12:31 PM
Pretty good ep, and I like that we have human Foot Soldiers back in the mix now, would definitely like to see more of them.

Hun was taken out pretty quickly, and its obvious Bebop/Rocksteady are mostly comic relief. Tiger Claw has really been failing a lot lately, makes you wonder if it'll lead to a character arc for him.

I'm pretty much ready to give up on TC. And I like the guy, he deserves to be in more TMNT stories, cartoons, movies, etc. after this series is over in large part thanks to his intriguing back story, his design, his skills, and the presence that Eric Bauza brings. But he's deserved better here. I know he's only had three episodes this season but he's done absolutely nothing (as well as the other villains)!
ELS did a terrible job handling his only scene. They didn't even have any of the other henchmen to act as eyewitnesses and therefore couldn't act as either skeptic nor justifier to TCs shortsightedness. There wasn't even a trace of those other guys the whole episode!
Next episode, he, Xever, and Bradford are just part of an overly long fight and contribute nothing else.
Same story with him and B&R. Unlike last episode, they had two different battles instead of one but they basically just went through the motions.

That being said, I don't think they're going to go the route Ciro "planned" at 1:08 in this video--or it may be too late to my disappointment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCtxWTkJbq0
This is the character arc for TC which would've been good for him since he and the rest of the henchmen have become stale by staying with Shredder this long (not to mention that he was brought in from Japan to basically be "the answer" Shredder's been looking for). They've become nothing more than underdeveloped pawns by staying where they are as well as a lack of screen time as compared to our protagonists.

Now keep in mind, I like Ciro Nieli. He got screwed out of finishing SRMTHFG which is a series that I liked, he's done some good things with this series, he's still not so good with character dating back to SRMTHFG (traits with little to no development in both these series'), and he has a way of running his mouth. First there's this video (which obviously sounds good), then there's him opening up to wanting to have made April black (which is a dumb idea), and then he apparently said that he wanted to have Splinter killed at some point b/f the series took place or having his fate in "Annihilation: Earth!" repeated in "Earth's Last Stand" as you guys have pointed out (the latter being dumber than the former).
Now I'm aware that he may have problems with management that have kept him from fulfilling the stuff listed in the above paragraphs and at 1:08 in the video, but I'm just going to say this because this is just the way it is: if the above mentioned stuff is true and/or he doesn't deliver on that part of the video I mentioned, I can only conclude that Ciro's a liar and anything he says shouldn't be taken seriously. That's my opinion, and I'm going to stick with it.

victory_angel
08-22-2016, 12:36 PM
I'm pretty much ready to give up on TC. And I like the guy, he deserves to be in more TMNT stories, cartoons, movies, etc. after this series is over in large part thanks to his intriguing back story, his design, his skills, and the presence that Eric Bauza brings. But he's deserved better here. I know he's only had three episodes this season but he's done absolutely nothing (as well as the other villains)!
ELS did a terrible job handling his only scene. They didn't even have any of the other henchmen to act as eyewitnesses and therefore couldn't act as either skeptic nor justifier to TCs shortsightedness. There wasn't even a trace of those other guys the whole episode!
Next episode, he, Xever, and Bradford are just part of an overly long fight and contribute nothing else.
Same story with him and B&R. Unlike last episode, they had two different battles instead of one but they basically just went through the motions.

That being said, I don't think they're going to go the route Ciro "planned" at 1:08 in this video--or it may be too late to my disappointment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCtxWTkJbq0
This is the character arc for TC which would've been good for him since he and the rest of the henchmen have become stale by staying with Shredder this long (not to mention that he was brought in from Japan to basically be "the answer" Shredder's been looking for). They've become nothing more than underdeveloped pawns by staying where they are as well as a lack of screen time as compared to our protagonists.

Now keep in mind, I like Ciro Nieli. He got screwed out of finishing SRMTHFG which is a series that I liked, he's done some good things with this series, he's still not so good with character dating back to SRMTHFG (traits with little to no development in both these series'), and he has a way of running his mouth. First there's this video, then there's him opening up to wanting to have made April black, and then he apparently said that he wanted to have Splinter killed at some point b/f the series took place or having his fate in "Annihilation: Earth!" repeated in "Earth's Last Stand" as you guys have pointed out.
Now I'm aware that he may have problems with management that have kept him from fulfilling the stuff listed in the above paragraphs and at 1:08 in the video, but I'm just going to say this because this is just the way it is: if the above mentioned stuff is true and/or he doesn't deliver on that part of the video I mentioned, I can only conclude that Ciro's a liar and anything he says shouldn't be taken seriously. That's my opinion, and I'm going to stick with it.

The season isn't over yet and there is still a Humans vs. Mutants arc coming up. That could be the situation that turns the tables for Tiger Claw.

JH24
08-22-2016, 12:39 PM
ON THE TOPIC OF KARAI'S MUTATION....anyone else think the turtles could/should get powers? Maybe a "Hyper Mutation" like in the Red Sky season.

Personally, I wouldn't like to see the turtles getting a mutation. I just prefer the turtles to defeat their enemies as they are. If they have to get a (temporary upgrade) I prefer something like in 2k3's fifth season, minus the dragon forms.

TMNTInsighter
08-22-2016, 12:49 PM
The season isn't over yet and there is still a Humans vs. Mutants arc coming up. That could be the situation that turns the tables for Tiger Claw.

I understand that. But as I mentioned, I have very little reason to believe in it happening any more. And even if it does happen, it may be too late to have it done right.

Yoshimickster
08-22-2016, 12:53 PM
Personally, I wouldn't like to see the turtles getting a mutation. I just prefer the turtles to defeat their enemies as they are. If they have to get a (temporary upgrade) I prefer something like in 2k3's fifth season, minus the dragon forms.

I dunno, temporary upgrades have always annoyed me. Like in the first run of Spawn, where Spawn gets this SUPER power-up that allowed him to beat both God AND Satan...and then he goes back to normal.

Jephael
08-22-2016, 01:34 PM
I love the interaction between Mikey and Shinigami. Really hoping we see those two pair up in an adventure together. It'd be funny to see how he'd react to Renet showing up again and he'd be like "Oh yea, I had another girlfriend."

Vicky82
08-22-2016, 01:42 PM
I expect Mikey knows that he will never have a chance with Renet because she's a time mistress in training from the future. So having a crush on Shinigami makes him think that he might have chance with her. But it could turn out horribly wrong and Shinigami might end up turning evil.

IndigoErth
08-22-2016, 02:25 PM
Pretty good, and liking where the story seems to be going right now. To get back on this angle has been long overdue.

Although it definitely feels like there is a missing episode that should have come before this one. I don't really get Leo's unexplained "costume change." A little added gear maybe, but an all over change for no reason.... eh. It looks cool, but reason is...? That better still lead to actual Dark Leo if Karai ends up under Shredder's control again or something.

Sooo... the burns on her face. I'm not one of those who grab anything as proposed "foreshadowing," but it will be surprising if that isn't.

victory_angel
08-22-2016, 02:28 PM
I expect Mikey knows that he will never have a chance with Renet because she's a time mistress in training from the future. So having a crush on Shinigami makes him think that he might have chance with her. But it could turn out horribly wrong and Shinigami might end up turning evil.

That is true. Shini isn't evil but she doesn't have any real morals, as her character is literally described as walking the line between good and evil. And in life, some of the things that we perceive as beautiful are dangerous if not deadly both in a figurative and literal sense.

So Mikey may have a crush on Shini for a time, but then as things progress he realizes that no matter how attractive she may be she is still poisonous and that makes her less desirable in his eyes.

Ninjinister
08-22-2016, 02:58 PM
Now I'm aware that he may have problems with management that have kept him from fulfilling the stuff listed in the above paragraphs and at 1:08 in the video, but I'm just going to say this because this is just the way it is: if the above mentioned stuff is true and/or he doesn't deliver on that part of the video I mentioned, I can only conclude that Ciro's a liar and anything he says shouldn't be taken seriously. That's my opinion, and I'm going to stick with it.

What part of anything says he's a liar? It's just what he intended to do. Changing your mind doesn't make you a liar.

Powder
08-22-2016, 04:21 PM
I tried to make that point to him a month or so ago & he challenged me to a real life fist fight. :tlol:

Probably easier to just move on.

ToTheNines
08-22-2016, 04:53 PM
My money's on you, Powder.

snake
08-22-2016, 05:24 PM
My money's on you, Powder.

I'm betting Powder as well. Dude's a powerhouse!

Yoshimickster
08-22-2016, 05:51 PM
On the topic of Mikey's crush on Shini over Renet, I am on team "Renet's in the freaking future and he didn't seal the deal in the first place". Shell Raph's long distance relationship with a salamander lady looks more stable than that!

ON THE SUBJECT OF THAT...anyone else getting some...Makorra vibes from Raph and Mona? Like they look TOO cute together, the kind of cuteness you see before a GIANT break-up?

oldmanwinters
08-22-2016, 08:28 PM
Sounds like more of an Archie thing ha ha

I'm trying to remember what kind of advertisements ran on the back of Mirage comics in the 2000s, but I might have to dig out my collection to confirm. There was usually some picture of a sea turtle.

snake
08-22-2016, 10:02 PM
On the topic of Mikey's crush on Shini over Renet, I am on team "Renet's in the freaking future and he didn't seal the deal in the first place". Shell Raph's long distance relationship with a salamander lady looks more stable than that!

ON THE SUBJECT OF THAT...anyone else getting some...Makorra vibes from Raph and Mona? Like they look TOO cute together, the kind of cuteness you see before a GIANT break-up?

A break up with absolutely no ramifications or purpose because I'm pretty sure no one cares about Raph and Mona Lisa. It would literally mean nothing.

Technogeek29
08-22-2016, 11:42 PM
Not a bad episode. Much better than last week's. I would have liked a scene showing how Karai asked Leo for help before she and Shini sneak into the temple. Still pretty enjoyable. Is this the first time this series borrowed from IDW?

Second to my knowledge? Also 2K7 Reference?

Splinter the boss
08-23-2016, 07:20 AM
Karai is reckless, she should slow down a bit.
Rocksteady's mom used to wear boots as well, I guess it runs in the family.
So, Karai tried to use her feminine charms on Leo, how bizarre and awkward!

In the voting poll, it says that April threatened Karai, I didn't see it.

EDIT: I appreciate it that Karai spoke a little Japanese in the episode. Probably because the foot soldiers don't understand English.

victory_angel
08-23-2016, 12:55 PM
Karai is reckless, she should slow down a bit.
Rocksteady's mom used to wear boots as well, I guess it runs in the family.
So, Karai tried to use her feminine charms on Leo, how bizarre and awkward!

In the voting poll, it says that April threatened Karai, I didn't see it.

EDIT: I appreciate it that Karai spoke a little Japanese in the episode. Probably because the foot soldiers don't understand English.

It's that point where April turns to regard Karai and her happy relieved expression sours. It kinda reminded me of that moment in ATLA when Zuko has just joined Team Avatar and Katara appears and says "You may have everyone else convinced you have changed. But let me tell you, if you do anything to harm Aang, if you do anything to indicate that you are going back to your old ways. I will... kill you."

Heck even at the end when Karai is saying she realizes that it's too risky to take down petty organizations and what she really must do is take out the Shredder himself. Leo looks like he's snarling at her as though saying "Excuse me? I nearly lost a brother because I was foolish enough to follow your stupidity! And now you want to kick the whole freaken hornets nest?!"

So it might be safe to say that Kaleo is over...at least as far as him helping her with her missions. From here on out he would help save her...but he and his brothers will try and stop her in order to get her to realize, she is taking on something that is more than she can handle.

gibbs615
08-23-2016, 01:02 PM
She now attempting to go after Shredder AGAIN despite what happened the LAST time she tried that!!! She's still so STUBBORN!

TigerClaw
08-23-2016, 01:32 PM
Finally watched the episode on my Tivo, I thought it was pretty good, plenty of action, nice seeing TigerClaw, Bebop, Rocksteady and Hun back.

Yoshimickster
08-23-2016, 01:53 PM
A break up with absolutely no ramifications or purpose because I'm pretty sure no one cares about Raph and Mona Lisa. It would literally mean nothing.

A shell of a bunch of fan-artists on Tumblr say otherwise. ALSO-I hope its not a "nothing" break-up, I want PASSION, talkin' "Steak me Amadeus" in Regular Show.

ssjup81
08-23-2016, 03:40 PM
Karai is reckless, she should slow down a bit.
Rocksteady's mom used to wear boots as well, I guess it runs in the family.
So, Karai tried to use her feminine charms on Leo, how bizarre and awkward!

In the voting poll, it says that April threatened Karai, I didn't see it.

EDIT: I appreciate it that Karai spoke a little Japanese in the episode. Probably because the foot soldiers don't understand English.
"Omae-tachi, mae!" She pretty much said, "You all, front and center."

snake
08-23-2016, 04:30 PM
A shell of a bunch of fan-artists on Tumblr say otherwise. ALSO-I hope its not a "nothing" break-up, I want PASSION, talkin' "Steak me Amadeus" in Regular Show.

Maybe if you're a shipper, sure. But the regular viewer has been given absolutely no reason to care about their "relationship". It feels so forced and unnatural.

Yoshimickster
08-23-2016, 04:44 PM
Maybe if you're a shipper, sure. But the regular viewer has been given absolutely no reason to care about their "relationship". It feels so forced and unnatural.

And much like Makorra, can easily be justified with a break-up story.

Powder
08-23-2016, 05:16 PM
She now attempting to go after Shredder AGAIN despite what happened the LAST time she tried that!!! She's still so STUBBORN!

It's not a surprise, really... Think about what her life has been like! There's a whole lot to overcome.

Splinter the boss
08-24-2016, 10:38 AM
"Omae-tachi, mae!" She pretty much said, "You all, front and center."

I wish I could speak Japanese. It sounds so cool in anime when the villains speak, especially those of the likes of Tobi, Madara from Naruto shippuden.

TMNTInsighter
08-24-2016, 08:37 PM
It's not a surprise, really... Think about what her life has been like! There's a whole lot to overcome.

Exactly! Karai was never raised like the turtles have been and so while Karai is also trying to do right by her family, her approach is the only way she knows how. You can't fault her and you can't dismiss what she's trying to bring about either.

THGhost
08-25-2016, 05:27 PM
Really enjoyed this episode.


Loved Leo's new outfit. Very IDW.
"Maggot Boy!"
"Yo Momma wears combat boots." "Hey, Momma does wear the combat boots!" :lol:
Shinigami - Awesome as always. Where does she get those wonderful hats?
Thanks for the Elite Foot, Nick. Now how about some 2K3 DVDs? :P

ranger_scout
08-25-2016, 07:10 PM
Karai really does have a very long way to go for a full chance at redemption. It was kind of strange seeing Leo wearing a black mask for the majority of the episode. Obviously, he won't keep it now that he won't be doing anymore of these secret missions since the last one resulting in Donnie getting knocked out pretty badly.

Lil Karai
08-26-2016, 07:49 PM
"I like your style, Witch Girl...."

Wow what a great episode!!! Nice homage to Mirage Shredder with those New Foot Bots.

ALSO- glad I purchased 3 red ninjas in the Articulated Icons Kickstarter. These will look great next to Karai!

DevilSpooky
08-26-2016, 09:50 PM
"I like your style, Witch Girl...."

Wow what a great episode!!! Nice homage to Mirage Shredder with those New Foot Bots.

ALSO- glad I purchased 3 red ninjas in the Articulated Icons Kickstarter. These will look great next to Karai!

They are actually a re-used model from Chromedome from season 1, who in turn was a re-used model of Bradford's Foot attire on his first appearence.

Powder
08-26-2016, 10:35 PM
Wow what a great episode!!! Nice homage to Mirage Shredder with those New Foot Bots.

http://i39.tinypic.com/wrj3pj.jpg

They're supposed to be Elite Guards, like in Mirage.

snake
08-26-2016, 11:00 PM
Chromedome kind of pissed me off when he first appeared. Pretty lazy to just use the bradford model.

CyberCubed
08-26-2016, 11:12 PM
Chrome Dome is supposed to look like a robot Shredder anyway, it makes no difference.

Powder
08-26-2016, 11:14 PM
I feel like I must be the only guy who not only doesn't mind but enjoys the ways in which they recycle their resources. It's often very clever.

The Big Bad
08-27-2016, 05:26 AM
While I actually quite like this new status quo, and really enjoy the idea of Karai and her equally awesome girlfriend taking on the Shredder, I continue to be quite annoyed by the series' double standards and inconsistencies.

Shredder has a crime empire, except that the only evidence of it is the four purple dragons and five mutants we always see. It's apparently quite important, except that destroying these doesn't appear to actually affect anything in any way. Way to render your screen time into filler, guys!

By most accounts, Karai's planning is sound--sounder than almost anything the turtles have attempted, at least--and yet this, and not anything else the turtles have attempted, is worth of censure? This is when we're supposed to pooh-pooh Karai for underestimating her enemy, when "in over their heads", and "overly emotional" is the turtles' natural state of being, including in this very episode?

We're supposed to be disappointed in Leo and Karai because they failed to predict every single potential factor (in this case, the extremely unlikely scenario of the turtles bursting in at precisely the wrong time, especially since a battle like this would take twenty minutes tops) and not in Donatello and company when they just inject themselves into a situation they knew nothing about? Donny knew that they were most likely in the middle of a thing! Why isn't it on him to actually make sure he knew what the situation was?

In case it's not screamingly obvious, I'm actually with PApagreg here, in that I do think Karai is in the right here, taking down Shredder's operation at the margins. If the series were actually concerned about details or consistency, it would actually be quite effective. The only reason it's apparently a bad idea is because that's what the series wants us to think.

Yes, because there's NO WAY he doesn't have another factory. Once again, RECON!

I can't even with this argument. While I do agree the series will probably pull another factory out of its nether regions whenever it feels like it, this doesn't change the fact that it's better to have one less factory (and one less weapons cache and one less source of liquid money) to deal with than it is to have to deal with all of them. If it's pointless to actually attempt to reduce the Shredder's resources, then what the heck is the alternative?

ssjup81
08-27-2016, 06:16 AM
I haven't fully given my opinion on this episode, but I did really really like it, and I'm enjoying Shini's character. She's a bit sassy and stuff, which I totally like.

The fact that Karai was trying to attack Shredder where it hurts (finances) made a lot of sense too. It's like those in war. You either go directly to the head honcho, or you try to take out his bases so that the enemy doesn't have the resources to retaliate. Felt like typical strategy to me. It's obvious that Karai doesn't know where Shredder is. So yeah...like I said, her tactics were pretty smart...but she was a bit too ambitious since it was only her, Leo, and Shini for a time.

When Karai said she was going to get Shredder herself, I also wasn't surprised because of how she was raised and all that she'd been through. You have to see it from her point of view.

She grew up in a marital arts family.

She was taught to get revenge, kill, etc., to get what she needs and it wouldn't surprise me if she's seen Shredder or his henchmen take people out given his underground, crime business.

She misses her mother and was told that the man who killed her was Yoshi.

She finds out that it was the man she'd called "father" all these years was the one who broke up the family she never had a chance to have and that the person she'd been raised to believe killed her mother, was actually her biological father.

She's pissed once learning the truth and confronts Shredder who says, "Yeah, that dude's your father, so?" and tosses her into a cell.

Later on after getting out, fo course she wants to kill him for what he's done to her and her family. She said it herself...that all she knows is "getting revenge" because of how she was raised.

Shredder gets her back, ends up forcibly mutating her, pumping her brain full of worms, and stuff.

She wants to kill him for the crap he put her through.

I don't fault her going all nuts to get him surprising at all. She's overly ambitious and rash in her methods, but it also shows her age. Don't you all remember when you had your stubborn moments as a teen? I know I did. It was like no one could tell you that you were wrong about anything. This is how I was viewing Karai this episode.

That aside, I'm looking forward to other eps involving her or Shini and the elite Foot, even though, I'm pretty sure one of those guys were killed in that molten lava or whatever. I heard a scream during the first part of the fight. ><

snake
08-27-2016, 11:27 AM
Ok, I finally watched the episode.


It was enjoyable for the most part, with some nice fight scenes. The leo stuff felt a little rushed. I hope Karai and Shinigami appear next week or are atleast mentioned

victory_angel
08-27-2016, 12:49 PM
I haven't fully given my opinion on this episode, but I did really really like it, and I'm enjoying Shini's character. She's a bit sassy and stuff, which I totally like.

The fact that Karai was trying to attack Shredder where it hurts (finances) made a lot of sense too. It's like those in war. You either go directly to the head honcho, or you try to take out his bases so that the enemy doesn't have the resources to retaliate. Felt like typical strategy to me. It's obvious that Karai doesn't know where Shredder is. So yeah...like I said, her tactics were pretty smart...but she was a bit too ambitious since it was only her, Leo, and Shini for a time.

When Karai said she was going to get Shredder herself, I also wasn't surprised because of how she was raised and all that she'd been through. You have to see it from her point of view.

She grew up in a marital arts family.

She was taught to get revenge, kill, etc., to get what she needs and it wouldn't surprise me if she's seen Shredder or his henchmen take people out given his underground, crime business.

She misses her mother and was told that the man who killed her was Yoshi.

She finds out that it was the man she'd called "father" all these years was the one who broke up the family she never had a chance to have and that the person she'd been raised to believe killed her mother, was actually her biological father.

She's pissed once learning the truth and confronts Shredder who says, "Yeah, that dude's your father, so?" and tosses her into a cell.

Later on after getting out, fo course she wants to kill him for what he's done to her and her family. She said it herself...that all she knows is "getting revenge" because of how she was raised.

Shredder gets her back, ends up forcibly mutating her, pumping her brain full of worms, and stuff.

She wants to kill him for the crap he put her through.

I don't fault her going all nuts to get him surprising at all. She's overly ambitious and rash in her methods, but it also shows her age. Don't you all remember when you had your stubborn moments as a teen? I know I did. It was like no one could tell you that you were wrong about anything. This is how I was viewing Karai this episode.

That aside, I'm looking forward to other eps involving her or Shini and the elite Foot, even though, I'm pretty sure one of those guys were killed in that molten lava or whatever. I heard a scream during the first part of the fight. ><

You do raise some good points. But Karai is has one option that would be more beneficial to her than what she is doing, and that is getting the Shredder's followers to join her cause instead.

In Casey Jones vs. The Underground you do see him talking to Don Vizioso in order to get his group to join under his banner.

So Karai would just need to is convince the Hench Mutants and the gangs associated with them that it would be more beneficial to join her side. For example convincing Rocksteady, Bebop, and Stockmen that by joining her, she would see about getting their humanity restored.

PApagreg
08-27-2016, 05:08 PM
I can't even with this argument. While I do agree the series will probably pull another factory out of its nether regions whenever it feels like it, this doesn't change the fact that it's better to have one less factory (and one less weapons cache and one less source of liquid money) to deal with than it is to have to deal with all of them. If it's pointless to actually attempt to reduce the Shredder's resources, then what the heck is the alternative?

Also its not like the turtles have anything better to do, I think we can all agree that breathing is better than Dungeons and Dragons

Mini-Turtle
08-27-2016, 09:49 PM
Really liked the reference to the 2007 movie and Raph beating up Mikey!

Also, glad to to see that Donnie didn't go into permanent shell shock, like he did in the IDW comics.

All in all, it is great to see the Turtles back in New York where they belong.

THGhost
08-28-2016, 04:50 PM
I don't understand the 2007 movie reference. The 2007 movie and the Nick series don't take place in the same world, do they?

ToTheNines
08-28-2016, 04:54 PM
No, just some interdimensional symmetry. Raph considered taking up the Nightwatcher mantle offscreen at some point in the past. Leo talked him out of it.

ssjup81
08-28-2016, 06:15 PM
I forgot to mention that in my post. I liked the 2k7 reference, even if I don't care for that movie. This is why I like this version of the show so much. I like the references they make to older Turtles series and easter eggs and stuff.

victory_angel
08-28-2016, 11:20 PM
No, just some interdimensional symmetry. Raph considered taking up the Nightwatcher mantle offscreen at some point in the past. Leo talked him out of it.

In other words pointing out how much of a hypocrite Leo could be sometimes.

It's a bit ironic that Leo is able to talk Raph out of being a vigilante and yet goes out to be a vigilante himself. But much like the 2k7 movie the result also nearly ends with someone important to the team being lost forever. And it also had it figuratively and verbally pointed out that the action put the family at risk.

The 2k7 Leo points out that being vigilante doesn't protect their family but is rather a fallacy on Raph's part.

Meaning that eventually, people are going to wonder who the Nightwatcher is and that could eventually lead to their lair and family being discovered. End result, Raph nearly kills Leo out of anger, catches himself, and runs off in horror leaving Leo to be captured and nearly lost forever.

In Broken Foot, Leo is donning the rogue attire himself and going out and helping Karai take down the Shredder. He doesn't tell his bro's what's going on because he knows Splinter would not approve and because he wants to protect them from any threats the Shredder holds towards their family. And yet he also is able to realize that they are in over their heads as just the three of them thus causing him to suggest that his brothers get involved as well.

Already humans were noticing the fires and explosions that Karai was setting. And while some of them like the temple were linked to criminal organizations. It's only a matter of time to get the general public to see what's going on and wonder what is causing it.

Leo realizes this but doesn't persist in it, resulting in Donnie nearly being killed when the other Turtles come by to find him. Leaving him incapacitated during a situation where his skills would be needed.

The Big Bad
08-29-2016, 05:46 AM
Already humans were noticing the fires and explosions that Karai was setting. And while some of them like the temple were linked to criminal organizations. It's only a matter of time to get the general public to see what's going on and wonder what is causing it.

How does this make Karai's campaign any different from anything the turtles have done, ever, against the Kraang, the Foot, the Triceratons, and the dozens and dozens of mutants ever? Why is this the unacceptable risk?

ssjup81
08-29-2016, 07:13 AM
How does this make Karai's campaign any different from anything the turtles have done, ever, against the Kraang, the Foot, the Triceratons, and the dozens and dozens of mutants ever? Why is this the unacceptable risk?As I've personally said, I definitely understand Karai's motives, but maybe people are getting on Karai because she's so emotionally driven in her mission to take down Shredder.

THGhost
08-29-2016, 07:40 AM
No, just some interdimensional symmetry. Raph considered taking up the Nightwatcher mantle offscreen at some point in the past. Leo talked him out of it.

I forgot to mention that in my post. I liked the 2k7 reference, even if I don't care for that movie. This is why I like this version of the show so much. I like the references they make to older Turtles series and easter eggs and stuff.

I liked the reference, even if it didn't make a whole lot of sense. :D

ssjup81
08-29-2016, 08:04 AM
I liked the reference, even if it didn't make a whole lot of sense. :DMade sense to me. It was ironic since Leo was doing vigilante stuff and it turned out that Raph, at some point, wanted to do that, but was talked out of it by Leo. That was the joke.

victory_angel
08-29-2016, 09:51 AM
How does this make Karai's campaign any different from anything the turtles have done, ever, against the Kraang, the Foot, the Triceratons, and the dozens and dozens of mutants ever? Why is this the unacceptable risk?

The Turtles at least try to make more of an effort in remaining hidden. And they aren't as consciously destructive as Karai is. They know the risk of being seen is there, and serious damage to public or private property is also something that will happen. But they try to keep it to a minimum as much as possible.

I had pointed out in an earlier post that all these recent events parallel the end of "Rise of the Turtles".

Because the Turtles had a moment of carelessness when they leave one little ninja star behind. That later gets put on the news. Splinter warns them that such things have dire consequences, but the Turtles brush it as off as nothing to be concerned about. Then low and behold that one insignificant ninja star gets the attention of the Shredder sparking his arrival in New York.


Karai is putting herself in a situation where she is in over her head. She has said herself that her entire life has been nothing but anger and revenge. But also like both of her fathers...her biological and her adoptive one, and also because she is a teenager she is too stubborn and prideful to realize that perhaps she is out of her depth. But also in 'City at War' and this episode, her actions have nearly gotten herself and Shini killed twice...and even then she feels that Splinter's way of seeing things- that vengeance only brings about more sorrow and pain than it actually solves- is fallacy and the only way to take out the Shredder is through direct action.

One of the Turtles practically had to be seriously injured for her to realize that attacking in revenge does cause needless suffering. But even then she sees only regards her past targets as petty and feels that she must take out the Shredder himself.

PApagreg
08-29-2016, 12:51 PM
The Turtles at least try to make more of an effort in remaining hidden. And they aren't as consciously destructive as Karai is. They know the risk of being seen is there, and serious damage to public or private property is also something that will happen. But they try to keep it to a minimum as much as possible.

I had pointed out in an earlier post that all these recent events parallel the end of "Rise of the Turtles".

Because the Turtles had a moment of carelessness when they leave one little ninja star behind. That later gets put on the news. Splinter warns them that such things have dire consequences, but the Turtles brush it as off as nothing to be concerned about. Then low and behold that one insignificant ninja star gets the attention of the Shredder sparking his arrival in New York.


Karai is putting herself in a situation where she is in over her head. She has said herself that her entire life has been nothing but anger and revenge. But also like both of her fathers...her biological and her adoptive one, and also because she is a teenager she is too stubborn and prideful to realize that perhaps she is out of her depth. But also in 'City at War' and this episode, her actions have nearly gotten herself and Shini killed twice...and even then she feels that Splinter's way of seeing things- that vengeance only brings about more sorrow and pain than it actually solves- is fallacy and the only way to take out the Shredder is through direct action.

One of the Turtles practically had to be seriously injured for her to realize that attacking in revenge does cause needless suffering. But even then she sees only regards her past targets as petty and feels that she must take out the Shredder himself.

The people of new york already know about Krangs, ninjas, and mutants nothing they will do is gonna blow their cover so again whats the downside of attacking Shredder's empire

The Big Bad
08-29-2016, 01:44 PM
Yeah. It'd be easier to take this argument seriously if the series had been more consistent on this point. Except it's not! This is a series where the turtles head out on a giant turtle robot in the middle of the street! The "stealth" ship has sailed and gone on a world tour twice and then crashed against an ice cube, at this point.