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View Full Version : TMNT #64 Preview & Discussion


AlZarkovski
11-18-2016, 08:44 AM
Preview here (http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/exclusive-preview-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-64/1100-156204/).

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-18-2016, 09:04 AM
I am LOVING that page with the four Turtles, Splinter, and Angel leading the charge of the Foot ninja. :tcool:

ProphetofGanja
11-18-2016, 10:10 AM
I am LOVING that page with the four Turtles, Splinter, and Angel leading the charge of the Foot ninja. :tcool:

Yeah, that's pretty bad ass

This looks like it'll be an exciting issue. I wonder what they're referring to when they say "long-lasting story shift". If TMNTU is any indication, maybe the main story will focus on Bishop and the EPF? Or possibly Old Hob and the Mutanimals and their first meeting with Leatherhead? Or maybe back to the Pantheon?? Or maybe the Utroms and Triceratons??? Or something else????

old_hob88
11-18-2016, 10:24 AM
Yeah, that's pretty bad ass

This looks like it'll be an exciting issue. I wonder what they're referring to when they say "long-lasting story shift". If TMNTU is any indication, maybe the main story will focus on Bishop and the EPF? Or possibly Old Hob and the Mutanimals and their first meeting with Leatherhead? Or maybe back to the Pantheon?? Or maybe the Utroms and Triceratons??? Or something else????

I'm thinking the turtles are going to separate from the foot and splinter after this. Splinter is gonna have Jennika kill Dunn and all 4 of them are going to leave like Mikey did after 50

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-18-2016, 10:39 AM
I'm thinking the turtles are going to separate from the foot and splinter after this. Splinter is gonna have Jennika kill Dunn and all 4 of them are going to leave like Mikey did after 50

Sir! You share my exact same theory for the outcome of this issue and story arc! I am REQUIRED to now buy you a beer and toast your intellectual cunning.

AquaParade
11-18-2016, 11:16 AM
Greetings all,

I actually dropped off this book around issue #52. While I love a lot about this book, it's been hit or miss for me and I decided to walk away for a while and possibly catch up later on.

Would love to hear some opinions on the last year or so of the book.
I'm generally a fan of this book from a conceptual standpoint. The reincarnation angle was really fresh and intruiging.
The longform storytelling is also a treat and a rarity in general when it comes to comics these days.

On the other hand, the dialogue usually doesn't gel with me and there sometimes feels like a lack of danger or stakes. Thing's like brainwashing as a catalyst for drama("Dark Leo") and death coming off as weightless(Donatello's "death" and immediate return) are also critiques I have.

That said, I have 100% respect for the creators behind the book, because I realize they are working within guidelines given by the owners of the property.

What say you, Technodrome?

Utrommaniac
11-18-2016, 11:17 AM
The next issues after January are probably going to be The Great "f*** you, dad!"

They probably won't separate from each other, but it's a question of where they'll all stay. Probably in the old lair that Michelangelo cleaned up. Or Harold- possibly with Libby. Straight from (deliberate?) no kids to four teenage boys :lol: .

My personal issue with it is that its slow burn takes way too long, and there are some elements of the characters that just aren't totally rounded off. I think about this with Krang a lot. He spends years protecting his species in stasis, and when one of them dies from having its Ooze stolen, he withdraws into thinking his Rock Soldier assuming he was helpless and thinks about when he stopped being bratty teenager??? No showing of outrage that he failed one individual so close to the end? I've always thought it was a little off that it was never spoken of again. Maybe it'll come up when we go back to Burnow Island.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-18-2016, 11:29 AM
Greetings all,

I actually dropped off this book around issue #52. While I love a lot about this book, it's been hit or miss for me and I decided to walk away for a while and possibly catch up later on.

Would love to hear some opinions on the last year or so of the book.
I'm generally a fan of this book from a conceptual standpoint. The reincarnation angle was really fresh and intruiging.
The longform storytelling is also a treat and a rarity in general when it comes to comics these days.

On the other hand, the dialogue usually doesn't gel with me and there sometimes feels like a lack of danger or stakes. Thing's like brainwashing as a catalyst for drama("Dark Leo") and death coming off as weightless(Donatello's "death" and immediate return) are also critiques I have.

That said, I have 100% respect for the creators behind the book, because I realize they are working within guidelines given by the owners of the property.

What say you, Technodrome?

Well, you're missing Splinter running the Foot Clan and a widening gulf between him and the Turtles.

You're also missing Agent Bishop FINALLY being introduced into IDW (and he is great), Leatherhead and a murder mystery, AND the next big story arc after this current arc will be (99% sure) Mutanimals versus Bishop.

So yeah. Get back on the bandwagon, boyo! :tgrin:

ProphetofGanja
11-18-2016, 11:35 AM
Greetings all,

I actually dropped off this book around issue #52. While I love a lot about this book, it's been hit or miss for me and I decided to walk away for a while and possibly catch up later on.

Would love to hear some opinions on the last year or so of the book.
I'm generally a fan of this book from a conceptual standpoint. The reincarnation angle was really fresh and intruiging.
The longform storytelling is also a treat and a rarity in general when it comes to comics these days.

On the other hand, the dialogue usually doesn't gel with me and there sometimes feels like a lack of danger or stakes. Thing's like brainwashing as a catalyst for drama("Dark Leo") and death coming off as weightless(Donatello's "death" and immediate return) are also critiques I have.

That said, I have 100% respect for the creators behind the book, because I realize they are working within guidelines given by the owners of the property.

What say you, Technodrome?

Yes, you've missed out on some greatness. I kinda envy that you'll be able to binge-read the last year or of issues if you so choose

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-18-2016, 11:50 AM
I will freely admit a lot of these stories read MUCH better in trade format. The monthly grind is appalling at times.

Feels like FOREVER since #63 came out.

CyberCubed
11-18-2016, 12:04 PM
Since post issue 50 the best story was the Utroms/Leatherhead arc in the middle, as well as Mikey's moment with Hob and the Mutanimals.

I must admit the current arc with Darius/Phantoms/Harold, etc. has been dragging for a while since the set-up started since issue #51, but this seems to be the last issue of it so far. The best part of it is Splinter possibly going mad with power over his control over the Foot Clan and keeping secrets from the Turtles.

MikeandRaph87
11-18-2016, 12:05 PM
I will freely admit a lot of these stories read MUCH better in trade format. The monthly grind is appalling at times.

Feels like FOREVER since #63 came out.

Its the two weeks between #62 and #63 then four weeks between #63 and #64 that caused it.

Also, the theory you expressed was my theory first!:trazz:

Don't forget the one-shot Michelangelo vs Wyrm!

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-18-2016, 12:08 PM
Its the two weeks between #62 and #63 then four weeks between #63 and #64 that caused it.

Also, the theory you expressed was my theory first!:trazz:

Don't forget the one-shot Michelangelo vs Wyrm!

I think a few of us all agreed on that theory. Beers all 'round!

And yeah... I'm more excited for the Leatherhead versus Hob issue, but more curious about the Michelangelo versus Wyrm issue. :tgrin:

MikeandRaph87
11-18-2016, 12:09 PM
I think a few of us all agreed on that theory. Beers all 'round!

And yeah... I'm more excited for the Leatherhead versus Hob issue, but more curious about the Michelangelo versus Wyrm issue. :tgrin:

I am excited for all three TMNT books!

CyberCubed
11-18-2016, 01:56 PM
We really need Bishop in the main ongoing soon. I hope its one of the next big story arcs.

spookycookies
11-18-2016, 02:09 PM
I'm wondering now if Libby is the one who might get Jennikilled by mistake since her arguing with Harold in that mech suit sure looks menacing...

old_hob88
11-18-2016, 02:34 PM
I think a few of us all agreed on that theory. Beers all 'round!

And yeah... I'm more excited for the Leatherhead versus Hob issue, but more curious about the Michelangelo versus Wyrm issue. :tgrin:

Cheers!

I've really been digging universe too. I'm in the same boat, cuz the hob/leatherhead story with Dialynas art is gonna be awesome but I'm curious about IDW Wyrm and everything about him. It just seems to be a kind of out of left field character to introduce. Should be fun though

AquaParade
11-18-2016, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone.

splinter keeping secrets from the turtles sounds pretty juicy, but if he's being brainwashed I'm totally out.

Redeemer
11-18-2016, 02:58 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone.

splinter keeping secrets from the turtles sounds pretty juicy, but if he's being brainwashed I'm totally out.

No he is not, he is completely making all these choices on his own.

CyberCubed
11-18-2016, 04:19 PM
I've really been digging universe too. I'm in the same boat, cuz the hob/leatherhead story with Dialynas art is gonna be awesome but I'm curious about IDW Wyrm and everything about him. It just seems to be a kind of out of left field character to introduce. Should be fun though

My guess is Wyrm is just a fun one-off "filler mutant" similar to how the cartoons just introduce a random mutant for no reason sometimes. Nothing wrong with that, could be a fun story. And who knows, he may become important later on too.

DestronMirage22
11-18-2016, 04:30 PM
Can't wait to see the fallout of this issue!

spookycookies
11-18-2016, 06:23 PM
No he is not, he is completely making all these choices on his own.

Yeah this is just what happens when you end up as the head of a gigantic ninja organization. He's being pragmatic because his family has been on the run and in hiding for 2 lifetimes and now that he actually has power he is trying to keep what is his safe.

The turtles might not understand because frankly they are teenagers and to them it might seem like a big heel turn but they haven't seen half of the inner depth that IDW has baked into Splinter. He's still the same father they have always had he just has a much more important role in their larger family that is the foot.

Another thing to add is that the Turtles have basically always identified the Foot Clan as a threat, but to Splinter they are his roots and entirely redeemable under the proper management.

I'm not sure where the whole brainwashed Splinter thing came from, but it grossly misreads the scenario that's playing out in Chasing Phantoms. The divide we are seeing is all about the shades of grey at play in the family.

ChosenOne
11-18-2016, 06:26 PM
Yeah this is just what happens when you end up as the head of a gigantic ninja organization. He's being pragmatic because his family has been on the run and in hiding for 2 lifetimes and now that he actually has power he is trying to keep what is his safe.

The turtles might not understand because frankly they are teenagers and to them it might seem like a big heel turn but they haven't seen half of the inner depth that IDW has baked into Splinter. He's still the same father they have always had he just has a much more important role in their larger family that is the foot.

Another thing to add is that the Turtles have basically always identified the Foot Clan as a threat, but to Splinter they are his roots and entirely redeemable under the proper management.

I'm not sure where the whole brainwashed Splinter thing came from, but it grossly misreads the scenario that's playing out in Chasing Phantoms. The divide we are seeing is all about the shades of grey at play in the family.

Nailed it! I already love this new direction and it hasn't even properly started yet.

swing_kinker
11-22-2016, 05:52 PM
That's me read the review copy. Some great stuff, art is ace and there is some very deliberate badarse shots of Splinter being a boss. The end....well no spoilers but looks like there are big changes coming and my jaw widened at one part.....bit of a shock.

myconius
11-23-2016, 06:00 AM
this was such a satisfying conclusion to many on the plot threads that have been building up!
as action packed as issues #49 & #50 were, this actually had a LOT more of an emotional impact!

Leo finally blowing up at Splinter was definitely a long time coming, but Splinters response really turned the whole thing on it's ear.
you really have to feel for Yoshi. everything he has been handed in the life has always been put into jeopardy.
it seems no matter what actions he takes, he'll always end up losing his family.
but it's very poignant to see that he'd choose to push away his sons and have them safe, than risk any more harm falling upon them.

and it feels like Leonardo has just stepped into a larger roll of leadership, now that Splinter has sacrificed his relationship with the boys and he must now look after them.


Darius Dunn's finest moment!!! :lol:

probably the single BEST thing he EVER did since entering this comic series!!!
:thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:

Utrommaniac
11-23-2016, 07:50 AM
Yep. Didn't see Darius last long. Bye, dude...we're likely forget about you in about five issues. Besides, if he hadn't been killed now, then he probably would be by something later down the line. Triceratons, probably. Zog is basically the smart hulk that he wishes he could be (just not in technology matters).
Libby's obviously going to be okay, that injury wasn't pretty. Harold might even be looking after her during the next issue. I'm pretty sure this is her hand.
https://68.media.tumblr.com/44fa3d12ead6a0e2f3f27ddf31907b54/tumblr_oh3n1n9U2q1rfuylgo1_1280.png

Harold severing ties with Donatello is most assuredly going to complicate things on Burnow Island. Not only for knowing when Honeycutt's repairs are finished, but also for when potential problems arise where they'd need help.

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2016, 08:26 AM
Bishop has to deal with his mutant agenda then go to Burnow Island and stir Chr'ell who will then free Krang and then Harold will turn back to Donatello. It could be a calendar year before that happens as the chain reaction above has to unfold.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-23-2016, 08:50 AM
I told you so.

ESPECIALLY you, Cubed. :trazz:

myconius
11-23-2016, 09:57 AM
Yep. Didn't see Darius last long. Bye, dude...we're likely forget about you in about five issues. Besides, if he hadn't been killed now, then he probably would be by something later down the line. Triceratons, probably. Zog is basically the smart hulk that he wishes he could be (just not in technology matters).
Libby's obviously going to be okay, that injury wasn't pretty. Harold might even be looking after her during the next issue. I'm pretty sure this is her hand.
https://68.media.tumblr.com/44fa3d12ead6a0e2f3f27ddf31907b54/tumblr_oh3n1n9U2q1rfuylgo1_1280.png

Harold severing ties with Donatello is most assuredly going to complicate things on Burnow Island. Not only for knowing when Honeycutt's repairs are finished, but also for when potential problems arise where they'd need help.

you really think it'll take as many as FIVE issues???? :lol:

good catch one the hand holding the Santa mug! it didn't occur to me when i first saw the drawing posted.


yeah, Harold's assistance no longer being on Burnow island could definitely cause major problems in the future!



Bishop has to deal with his mutant agenda then go to Burnow Island and stir Chr'ell who will then free Krang and then Harold will turn back to Donatello. It could be a calendar year before that happens as the chain reaction above has to unfold.


i want to see Chr'ell personally "Handle" Bishop!!!

Utrommaniac
11-23-2016, 10:05 AM
"Five issues" was rhetorical, sorry :P . I don't mean it literally.

Yeah, I don't see Krang coming back until at least 2018. We've got the Mutanimals story coming up, and Bobby hinted at the Triceratons in 2017. There wouldn't be room for Ch'rell to attempt rescuing Krang in the middle of of a Triceraton storyline if they come to Earth.

myconius
11-23-2016, 10:16 AM
"Five issues" was rhetorical, sorry :P . I don't mean it literally.

Yeah, I don't see Krang coming back until at least 2018. We've got the Mutanimals story coming up, and Bobby hinted at the Triceratons in 2017. There wouldn't be room for Ch'rell to attempt rescuing Krang in the middle of of a Triceraton storyline if they come to Earth.

i'm just kidding!!! :P

no i only meant that to - dance on his grave a little!! :D

hopefully he get's buried with his award for the Science Fair!!
i'm sure he was very proud of it? :lol:


you never know though?

they might be able to properly tie the Ch'rell and Krang stories together?
at least plant some seeds?

Utrommaniac
11-23-2016, 10:25 AM
hopefully he get's buried with his award for the Science Fair!!
i'm sure he was very proud of it? :lol:

you never know though?

they might be able to properly tie the Ch'rell and Krang stories together?
at least plant some seeds?

Oh man, that would be really funny :lol: .

It would make sense for The Great (Krang) Escape to lead in directly from the storyline where Ch'rell is let out - be it Bishop or Triceratons, but it won't overlap. Besides, given Ch'rell's reputation in this take, he probably wouldn't be leaving Burnow in the middle of an attack.
Invasion happens, Ch'rell is let out, he helps save the day, he's told about Krang's inprisonment, he skulks for a long time while planning a rescue, he does it. Whether he succeeds or not is anyone's guess.

myconius
11-23-2016, 10:41 AM
Oh man, that would be really funny :lol: .

It would make sense for The Great (Krang) Escape to lead in directly from the storyline where Ch'rell is let out - be it Bishop or Triceratons, but it won't overlap. Besides, given Ch'rell's reputation in this take, he probably wouldn't be leaving Burnow in the middle of an attack.
Invasion happens, Ch'rell is let out, he helps save the day, he's told about Krang's inprisonment, he skulks for a long time while planning a rescue, he does it. Whether he succeeds or not is anyone's guess.

that that WOULD be pretty funny!! :lol:
buried with that Science Fair award jammed RIGHT up his . . . . :D

yeah that scenario you described sounds more likely.
i guess we'll have to wait and see how the events of Burnow Island unfold?
i usually don't like to look TOO far ahead with solicits, as i like to be surprised when reading a story.
though when you're really excited for the next month's issue, it's pretty hard to not peek ahead!!! :D

Utrommaniac
11-23-2016, 10:51 AM
I'm going to have to make a little silly sketch on that.

With the mutanimals storyline being 4 issues, February to May, it won't be until past June if we ever get back to Burnow.

And we're still waiting around for confirmation on how Honeycutt's repairs are going!

myconius
11-23-2016, 11:42 AM
I'm going to have to make a little silly sketch on that.


look forward to seeing it :D

take your time.
really capture him in ALL his splendid glory! :lol:

neatoman
11-23-2016, 12:04 PM
Holy crap! I did not expect Darius and Libby to get killed off this quickly, I can see the rationale with Darius (given how many similar characters are running around) but Libby was quite shocking.

Edit: Oh, and I'm not sure if Libby's armor was a reference to this, given the more simple design, but it could be.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/7/79/DariusDunInMech.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160519032012

swing_kinker
11-23-2016, 01:30 PM
http://bigglasgowcomic.com/review-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-64/

My latest review. It was posted yesterday and IDW are quite rightly strict about spoilers since we get advanced copies so it's pretty vague on the plot details.

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2016, 01:52 PM
At my other message boards spoilers are required for the first 24 hours in these kind of threads to allow others time to read but also discuss other points made in the thread. Perhaps something could be implemented at least in the comic section?

Libby is injured similar to Casey. She is not dead.
Jenika being ordwred to kill Darius Dunn could be seen from a mule away along with the others joinning Michelangelo.Still it does not lose the effect.

Bring on Christmas and the Bishop storyline. I also curious what will become of Alopex.

ProphetofGanja
11-23-2016, 02:19 PM
At my other message boards spoilers are required for the first 24 hours in these kind of threads to allow others time to read but also discuss other points made in the thread. Perhaps something could be implemented at least in the comic section?



Yeah that's a good rule, but I still don't trust everyone else to always remember to follow it so I just stay away from forums and websites until I catch up on the current issue/episode/installment/what-have-you

but yeah, that was a great issue, very emotional. it did a good job of showing the complexity of Splinter and the Turtles' situation

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2016, 02:35 PM
Yeah that's a good rule, but I still don't trust everyone else to always remember to follow it so I just stay away from forums and websites until I catch up on the current issue/episode/installment/what-have-you

but yeah, that was a great issue, very emotional. it did a good job of showing the complexity of Splinter and the Turtles' situation


A memo like what is done with the links to full episodes posted in sections related to the different cartoons should do the trick. After some time it would be ingrained in us that we are required to use spoiler tags for 24 hours.

myconius
11-23-2016, 03:00 PM
yeah the 24 hour spoiler/hide rule seems like a pretty good idea.

corvus
11-23-2016, 05:23 PM
Splinter is being controlled by rat king for sure.

Super glad they killed Dunn. This arch is finally over and we're not gonna have to see another one.

ChosenOne
11-23-2016, 05:47 PM
Well, Dunn got his Kingpin moment.

And then Splinter got his Daredevil moment.

And then Jennika got her Bullseye moment. :D

I'm not so sure Splinter is being mind-controlled anymore. Twisted as his logic may seem, especially to his sons, he does have a point, which would imply it's all him at the wheel of the plan.

Everyone saw this development coming a mile away from the covers alone, but it's still beautifully handled and like nothing we've ever seen before, so I'm even more excited now than I was in the run-up to #50. Good job, IDW!

myconius
11-23-2016, 06:13 PM
i don't see Splinter being mind controlled one bit.

Bobby Curnow
11-23-2016, 06:49 PM
Splinter is definitely not being mind controlled. I could see myself throwing misdirection in certain circumstances, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but: he's definitely not mind controlled.

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2016, 07:17 PM
Its interesting since that is the case. He goes from "thy shall not kill except Shredder" to killing the head of threats and absorbing their operations. This is started in #14 when Splinter stips Raphael from beating pre-Hun Arnold Sr. to death.

old_hob88
11-23-2016, 08:26 PM
Its interesting since that is the case. He goes from "thy shall not kill except Shredder" to killing the head of threats and absorbing their operations. This is started in #14 when Splinter stips Raphael from beating pre-Hun Arnold Sr. to death.


I think we're now seeing more of Hamato Yoshi than the Splinter we know in Splinter. He's realized he can't live up to promises he's made and is kind of reverting to who he was before. Yes, he was a father to the turtles then, but prior to defying Shredder, Splinter was an assassin. An honorable one, but an assassin nonetheless.

myconius
11-23-2016, 09:05 PM
I think we're now seeing more of Hamato Yoshi than the Splinter we know in Splinter. He's realized he can't live up to promises he's made and is kind of reverting to who he was before. Yes, he was a father to the turtles then, but prior to defying Shredder, Splinter was an assassin. An honorable one, but an assassin nonetheless.


and you really can't fault Splinter either.
he gave Darius every chance before having him executed.
and Darius was no saint either. he had tried to have Splinter taken out of the picture issues earlier.

you can really see in Leonardo's expression in the last few panels, that even though he is really upset by his father's actions that he understands the motivation.

myconius
11-23-2016, 09:06 PM
in the schism of their friendship-
i don't know who i felt worse for?
Harold? or Donatello?

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2016, 09:11 PM
in the schism of their friendship-
i don't know who i felt worse for?
Harold? or Donatello?


I hate to say it, but Harold. He just needs time to heal. He did say moments before how he praises the Turtles loyalty.

MikeandRaph87
11-23-2016, 09:12 PM
in the schism of their friendship-
i don't know who i felt worse for?
Harold? or Donatello?


I hate to say it, but Harold. Harild eas right in what he said. He just needs time to heal. He did say moments before how he praises the Turtles loyalty.

Redeemer
11-23-2016, 10:07 PM
Definitely was shocked by this issue. Splinter is really letting go, showing no restraint or remorse in his actions. It looks like the turtles are going to be going solo for the time being which I like. But I am wondering if this will ultimately lead to splinter's demise

shredder orokusaki
11-24-2016, 03:10 AM
[Mod Edit by Machias: Knock it off...]

DrSpengler
11-24-2016, 11:38 AM
Here's my full summary and review of TMNT #64 at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2016/11/tmnt-idw-64.html)

While the arc was a little slow to get going, it picked up in the back half. The villains weren't the best in the series, but they didn't have to be. I liked seeing how an altercation with some rather D-list villains could eventually cause so much turmoil among the group; as much as Krang and Shredder caused, even.

Gonna miss Wachter; hope he comes back for more sometime soon.

CyberCubed
11-24-2016, 12:33 PM
I can't believe Cylon called the climax of this issue months ago. I must tip my hat to you, Cylon. It played out exactly like you said it would.

As for Libby, I'm sure she's fine. Not much a dramatic exit if it were.

Overall this story arc wasn't the best, but I do like the direction they're going in with Splinter. Still, for a storyline that was brewing since issue #51 when we first saw the Phantoms and Darius....I have to say they didn't really leave much of an impression on the overall series. The Splinter angle is the best aspect, but these were essentially C-tier villains.

2K3
11-24-2016, 01:45 PM
I'm all for Darius Dunn dying off, he was of my least favourite TMNT Villains ever (a poor man's Lex Luthor). I just hope the Street Phantoms live for a while more; they're gonna have to get a new tech-expert of course (Personally, I recommend Stockman)

I never expected the Turtles cutting ties with Splinter; this is a first in Turtle Lore... AND I'M LOVING IT.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
11-24-2016, 01:50 PM
I can't believe Cylon called the climax of this issue months ago. I must tip my hat to you, Cylon. It played out exactly like you said it would.

As for Libby, I'm sure she's fine. Not much a dramatic exit if it were.

Overall this story arc wasn't the best, but I do like the direction they're going in with Splinter. Still, for a storyline that was brewing since issue #51 when we first saw the Phantoms and Darius....I have to say they didn't really leave much of an impression on the overall series. The Splinter angle is the best aspect, but these were essentially C-tier villains.

Called it, I did. :twink: I believe you owe me a fifth of scotch?

I loved this story; small stakes, no huge villains, it really gives the conflict between Foot and Turtles room to breathe and take the forefront.

myconius
11-24-2016, 08:01 PM
I loved this story; small stakes, no huge villains, it really gives the conflict between Foot and Turtles room to breathe and take the forefront.

agreed. i like a story with a bit of breathing room. makes for more enjoyable reading.
plus when a comic event tries too hard to be overly "epic" i find such stories most of the time to be either exhausting or just plain unbelievable.
at least that's how it is for a cynical skeptic like myself. :lol:

ToTheNines
11-25-2016, 05:31 AM
I think they pulled this one off masterfully. The ending was great. This was certainly a more calloused assassination compared to the Shredder thing, so Mike wasn't going to stick around. Then both Don and Raph were already miffed by Splinter using Harold and Casey as assets behind their backs. And the loyal son had to be told to go with his brothers, making the cover all the more poignant.

BUT! Notice how Splinter only killed Dun when he threatened his sons, and in gory detail? He's still the fiercely protective father he's always been.

Awesome issue, great art, looking forward to next month!

corvus
11-25-2016, 05:59 AM
Splinter is definitely not being mind controlled. I could see myself throwing misdirection in certain circumstances, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but: he's definitely not mind controlled.

the thing is I actually agree with splinter and this is very much like mirage splinter...who was quite a bit more violent and sometimes shady. I'm actually really glad to know he's not being controlled. I just didn't think this comic would have such a dark side to a character that's usually presented as being flawless

myconius
11-25-2016, 06:34 AM
BUT! Notice how Splinter only killed Dun when he threatened his sons, and in gory detail? He's still the fiercely protective father he's always been.


yeah, Michelangelo seems to have overlooked that little detail as he storms off.
it's not like Dunn hasn't already tried to have Splinter assassinated, so his threat wasn't just idle words.


"I... I can't. guys. I can't do this anymore. It's too... ...insane.
https://media.tenor.co/images/e60c106243fea9b64bd883cdc536c84c/raw

MikeandRaph87
11-25-2016, 08:35 AM
I went back and reread #51 and #52 in response to #64's conclusion. This is Splinter's view on the Foot executing its enemies in the final pages #52. Do you all feel that the mission Splinter set up in 'Chasing Phantoms' reflects that or has Splinter's approach evolve? I cant help but feel Splinter meant wait for the enemy to strike then stopping them(tying up the losing bad guy for the police along with evidence) not setting them up and then cutting off its head.

Given that Jenika attempting to assassinate Splinter and she is the one order to remove the threat in #64's climax seems poetic.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-b_9J2ZMfk88/VlXqBiuVtTI/AAAAAAATJ_0/SRo9kOwr8uI/s1600/48_19.jpg

CyberCubed
11-25-2016, 11:37 AM
Yeah, its easy to forget this whole story arc really started back in issue #51...and not just the recent 4 parter. Now re-reading the older issues and seeing how everything led to this, it really was well done. This was really about 8-9 issues in the making.

Darius is gone, The Street Phantoms are defeated (for now), and Harold and Libby's romance is rekindled and the story of how she created and used his cloaks and devices for the Street Phantoms was resolved. Likewise all the foreshadowing for Jennika dating back to when she tried to kill Splinter to now where she's now Splinter's personal assassin is good too.

On top of that "Michelangelo was right" (cue "Cylops was right" memes), and the Turtles rift with Splinter grows. I also like how Casey is in control of the Purple Dragons again.

About the only thing they have left to do is get Alopex back from Alaska which we're getting in January's issue...and then we're free to move on to Bishop being the main villain and his attack on the Mutanimals and eventually the Utroms. :D

Allio
11-25-2016, 12:36 PM
as I mentioned before in the other threads, this is Yoshi we are seeing, not Splinter.

ToTheNines
11-25-2016, 01:10 PM
yeah, Michelangelo seems to have overlooked that little detail as he storms off.
it's not like Dunn hasn't already tried to have Splinter assassinated, so his threat wasn't just idle words.


"I... I can't. guys. I can't do this anymore. It's too... ...insane.
https://media.tenor.co/images/e60c106243fea9b64bd883cdc536c84c/raw


Yeah, I was pretty annoyed by Mikey's behavior in #50 too, but I get it now. As a pacafist myself, I understand how watching his father behead someone who wasn't even fighting back at that point would freak him out.

I think Mike understood Shredder needed to be stopped, especially after the Donnie thing, and I personally believe that he was even fighting to kill on that rooftop. But watching the seppuku ritual was obviously too much for him.

So watching him do basically the same thing again, and I'd say this one was even worse considering Dun wasn't a willing participant in any of it, was bound to have the same effect on him.

myconius
11-25-2016, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I was pretty annoyed by Mikey's behavior in #50 too, but I get it now. As a pacafist myself, I understand how watching his father behead someone who wasn't even fighting back at that point would freak him out.

I think Mike understood Shredder needed to be stopped, especially after the Donnie thing, and I personally believe that he was even fighting to kill on that rooftop. But watching the seppuku ritual was obviously too much for him.

So watching him do basically the same thing again, and I'd say this one was even worse considering Dun wasn't a willing participant in any of it, was bound to have the same effect on him.

it just feels like Michelangelo is acting very one-sided.
only seeing the wrong in his father's actions, and not acknowledging the real threat their enemies truly pose.

very good example in what happened to Donatello.
i just think Michelangelo in the IDW universe is a bit delusional.
especially when he was comparing himself and his brothers to masked crimefighters.

MikeandRaph87
11-26-2016, 03:24 PM
I read all the way from #51 through #64 in the last two days. I see Kitsune's effort to stop Splinter and reclaim Oroku Saki as the reason Splinter upped his game to forcing the enemy to give up their assets or die. It may go against Splinter's morals but his chief focus as he says is protecting the Turtles.

Also, does anyone else have Brian Murray's voice play when Harold Lilja speaks?

Jephael
11-26-2016, 03:59 PM
Also, does anyone else have Brian Murray's voice play when Harold Lilja speaks?

Nah, that guy's too jolly in most of his roles. Even when he's the uptight boss in Christmas Vacation, you can kinda sense he's having too much fun.

ToTheNines
11-26-2016, 04:04 PM
Also, does anyone else have Brian Murray's voice play when Harold Lilja speaks?

Haha, no but that's pretty good casting. I hear a less evil version of Dr. Desmond (Blockbuster, before he transformed) from Young Justice.

CyberCubed
11-26-2016, 04:07 PM
I personally think Harold's voice would sound like Odo from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. He also did many voice roles in cartoons.

ToTheNines
11-26-2016, 04:29 PM
I personally think Harold's voice would sound like Odo from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. He also did many voice roles in cartoons.

Rene Auberjonois. Same dude I'm talking about.

2K3
11-27-2016, 03:50 AM
Don't know why, but everytime I look at Harold's design, I can't help but imagine John Hurt's voice coming out of him.

DestronMirage22
11-27-2016, 06:46 PM
Finally got around to reading the new issue. It was great, all that I expected to happen did happen, but it was presented in a good way. Can't wait to see how long the turtles will be away from Splinter.

ChosenOne
11-27-2016, 08:35 PM
I wonder if Bishop will try to target more mutants other than the Turtles and the Mutanimals... If he sets his sights on Splinter and the other Foot mutants, Bebop and Rocksteady, or even Null's henchmen (Zodi can't be the only one, can she?), it's possible that he will be biting off more than he can chew.

This is all very exciting!

CyberCubed
11-27-2016, 08:57 PM
I wonder if Bishop will try to target more mutants other than the Turtles and the Mutanimals... If he sets his sights on Splinter and the other Foot mutants, Bebop and Rocksteady, or even Null's henchmen (Zodi can't be the only one, can she?), it's possible that he will be biting off more than he can chew.

This is all very exciting!

Well they're already after Zodi, and of course if Alopex is back with the Turtles he'll go after her to when she's with them.

The wild cards are Bebop/Rocksteady and Koya/Bludgeon. Bebop/Rocksteady fighting Bishop's men should be great.

ChosenOne
11-27-2016, 09:14 PM
Well they're already after Zodi, and of course if Alopex is back with the Turtles he'll go after her to when she's with them.

The wild cards are Bebop/Rocksteady and Koya/Bludgeon. Bebop/Rocksteady fighting Bishop's men should be great.

I do wonder if Null has more mutants at her disposal other than Zodi. The story so far seems to imply that she does, given the fact that one operative came out of nowhere all of a sudden. There are probably others. And the reason why I wonder, is because Bishop targeting them would bring him into direct conflict with Null herself and her considerable resources...

Yeah, B&R mowing through the EPF could/will be fun! I also wonder if IDW Bishop is a skilled fighter like he was in the 2003 cartoon. That would certainly raise the stakes quite a bit. Whatever happens, I think we have some pretty great brawls to look forward to in the future!

Utrommaniac
11-27-2016, 10:34 PM
I fear for the man if he goes after Leatherhead. One more force for him not to trust.

Turtle Flakes
11-29-2016, 03:31 AM
Hey guys! We're covering issue 64 this Saturday, and I just happened to read it yesterday. What a powerful issue.


I had a feeling it was going to turn this way, but I certainly didn't see things happening so quickly, with Splinter having Dunn taken out right away. I figured that would be a slow burn story line for a while.

Anyway, my question for you is this--Is Splinter an antagonist? Also, if he continues this trend, do you see him living much longer? I've got this gut feeling--especially now that he and the Foot Clan have a target on their backs--that something is going to happen to him before issue 100.

PApagreg
11-29-2016, 01:20 PM
Hey guys! We're covering issue 64 this Saturday, and I just happened to read it yesterday. What a powerful issue.


I had a feeling it was going to turn this way, but I certainly didn't see things happening so quickly, with Splinter having Dunn taken out right away. I figured that would be a slow burn story line for a while.

Anyway, my question for you is this--Is Splinter an antagonist? Also, if he continues this trend, do you see him living much longer? I've got this gut feeling--especially now that he and the Foot Clan have a target on their backs--that something is going to happen to him before issue 100.

Well hes more of a pragmatic hero than an antagonist since he's still an ally(or at least a neutral party) to the turtles.

Also I do like the nuance in this series, they could've had Splinter 100% in the wrong but instead show that there is a good reason why he is committing these heinous acts.

Mutant Ninja Anole
11-29-2016, 04:38 PM
Hey, I'm back!

Finally got around to reading this, my feelings are complex, I definitely have a reaction against some of the "Splinter is Evil!" comments I've seen (not so much here) but saying I agree with Splinter's approach is probably too far. I might post something more thorough later.

The short of it is that Splinter is acting like the head of a feudal Japanese clan...which makes sense, he is a 'man' of his time. Whether he should be acting that way, in 2016 IDW New York specifically, is a bit of an issue. I might be more on board with the Turtles if I didn't sometimes get the impression that the police barely exist in this universe, at least with regards to the organized crime scene.

Also...I'm terrible but my first thought was, "Oh! Libby's going to get mutated into something to save here life, right?" Though I suspect a cyborg might be more likely.

Utrommaniac
11-29-2016, 04:59 PM
She's probably going to be fine. Maybe she'll be walking with a crutch/cane for a while, but wouldn't need any drastic measures.

PApagreg
11-29-2016, 06:14 PM
You know something, I find it odd that Leo,Don and Raph are surprised by Splinter's actions I mean they knew he was going to run the Foot and in order to run a successful ninja empire you are going have to be pragmatic and worry about finances in order to keep said ninja happy. So they should't be really all that surprised with Splinter's action hell he is a step above Shredder because at least Splinter is reasonable.

Turtle Flakes
11-29-2016, 06:38 PM
Yeah, Josh and I were talking about it--some of us, who may or may not have known about the comics when we were young, might have grown up thinking that Splinter was always tranquil and sage-like--much like he was in the original cartoon. So it could have been a little jarring to see Splinter act the way he does in this issue, if we didn't know better. However, if you look at the very first TMNT comic, Splinter was ruthless (for good reason, of course!). He trained his Turtles to kill Oroku Saki. Not slap him on the wrist and make him think about what he's done. A wartime Splinter, especially when it comes to the comics, is not a Splinter you want to mess with.

Stugehen
11-29-2016, 10:19 PM
Before making inferences on Splinter or Michelangelo, you've got to think seriously about the logistics of the foot clan. Really. What's their business plan? P&L? Goals?

You don't get a highly trained, secret, and well funded ninja clan whose members are willing to risk death over inner city skirmishes without serious incentive or questionable gang-family delusions. To be a member would be full time job, and there's no way the clan could sustain itself without a sizable income. So at worst they perform assassinations (for hire or for the plunder that results) and at best hired protection. Though that's also questionable because who'd really search craigslist for an underground clan of assassins to protect them unless they're involved in some shady ****.

So no, I don't think Mikey's been a baby. I grant the superhero bit is childish, but no morally good person living in 2016 would want anything to do with the foot clan, and Splinter has been overseeing the whole operation. One might even suspect he seems more fulfilled by it.

But look, he already got his family killed trying to be the protective father. In this life, which is far more hostile, he's resolved to go on the offensive and anyone but his sons including allies and friends are expendable. It's the wrong move, and it's going to hurt more than it helps in the long run.

PApagreg
11-29-2016, 10:33 PM
So no, I don't think Mikey's been a baby. I grant the superhero bit is childish, but no morally good person living in 2016 would want anything to do with the foot clan, and Splinter has been overseeing the whole operation. One might even suspect he seems more fulfilled by it.

But look, he already got his family killed trying to be the protective father. In this life, which is far more hostile, he's resolved to go on the offensive and anyone but his sons including allies and friends are expendable. It's the wrong move, and it's going to hurt more than it helps in the long run.

Well I see it as more of a necessary evil, on one hand like you said no morally good person would run the foot but lets face it, the Foot would do more harm then good if anyone but Splinter ran it so maybe Splinter thinks he's the best person to run the Foot in a manner that does the least damage towards innocent people. As for money I could also see the Foot as a protection racket or an organization that stills information.

Stugehen
11-29-2016, 10:56 PM
Well I see it as more of a necessary evil, on one hand like you said no morally good person would run the foot but lets face it, the Foot would do more harm then good if anyone but Splinter ran it so maybe Splinter thinks he's the best person to run the Foot in a manner that does the least damage towards innocent people.

I think the necessary evil applied to killing Shredder. I'm not convinced leading the foot clan was necessary. Admittedly leaving Kitsune alone to fill that role would've been a bad move, so something had to be done about her. But I'd argue getting involved has only increased hostilities with her and the turtles, and it's likely Shredder will be revived anyway.

It's not that I think he's doing this with evil intent. But there's something more sinister in using the foot clan to become the strongest offensive player in the city than mere pragmatism.

As for money I could also see the Foot as a protection racket or an organization that stills information.

True, but thus far Splinter's actions have been to the contrary.

PApagreg
11-29-2016, 11:15 PM
I think the necessary evil applied to killing Shredder. I'm not convinced leading the foot clan was necessary. Admittedly leaving Kitsune alone to fill that role would've been a bad move, so something had to be done about her. But I'd argue getting involved has only increased hostilities with her and the turtles, and it's likely Shredder will be revived anyway.

It's not that I think he's doing this with evil intent. But there's something more sinister in using the foot clan to become the strongest offensive player in the city than mere pragmatism.

Well someone has to be the strongest offensive player so it might as well be The Foot, could you imagine the Phantoms as the strongest players would't be good for the city. When it comes to being the mob boss you either gotta be at the top or dead. Also while his leading the Foot Clan created hostilities with his sons leaving the orgnazation with Kitsune would've been much worse so its a "damn if you do & damn if you don't"



True, but thus far Splinter's actions have been to the contrary.

Well he can have the foot do Assassination, Bodyguarding, Protection Racket, and reconnaissance. I mean those stealth jets are expensive.

Mutant Ninja Anole
11-29-2016, 11:49 PM
Okay, let me gather my thoughts and put together a longer review.

First off, great action and clever use of Harold's tech to take down the Phantoms. I liked seeing Casey as head of the Purple Dragons, and they did a good job of establishing Harold and Libby as a couple we should care about just in time for her to be put in peril, so that Harold's reaction doesn't seem too unbelievable, even if I feel it's a bit unfair. Poor Foot Ninja's though, you all get soloed by a guy who is going to be beaten by Splinter and then killed a few pages later. Ouch.

As I said before, I sort of see Splinter as operating as if he was still in feudal Japan. Imagine if this were back then, with the Foot Clan at war with another Feudal Lord in Dunn. He defeats them, after forging an alliance with another Clan (the Purple Dragons) by helping an ally (Casey Jones) rise to a position of authority there. He then takes the spoils of war, and after offering their leader a chance to surrender, and receiving the threat of his sons' murder instead, has him killed.

Honestly? It would seem pretty restrained. Which is why some of the comments on Tumblr I see comparing him to the evil universe Splinter from the 2k3 series or saying he's becoming Shredder don't ring true to me. Is he exactly a 'good guy' here? Probably not, as I'll get into in a second but he'd be extremely fair for his day. Splinter would not have casually killed his underlings as Shredder did, or killed Alopex's family. Side note: Actually, Alopex under a Splinter run Foot Clan, before the trauma of losing her family and Kitsune's meddling, might have been remarkably similar, loyal to a fault, honorable, but no problem killing those who betrayed her family. I don't know that she could go back to that now though.

Anyway, this shouldn't surprise anyone. He agreed to fight Shredder to the death, and to take part in his ritual suicide. That technically was murder, by law right there. No way that holds up in court.

But...do American laws apply to Splinter and the Turtles? Ah, here's the rub. First off, they aren't human and are not citizens, they don't legally exist. Also, we've seen the police pop up here and there, and we've seen Bishop and what is apparently the shadier side of the US government as well...but did Leo really expect Splinter to hand Dunn over to the cops? In theory that should work but everything we've seen indicates the police are completely impotent to do anything to stop organized corporate crime like the Street Phantoms. In City Fall we are told the police 'know better' than to interfere with a violent gang war in New York City. Okay? So is trusting to government to do anything to stop the Phantoms or groups like them utterly pointless? Then why shouldn't Splinter treat the Foot Clan as his 'nation' and operate under those rules? Is the Foot killing Dunn that different from the US drone striking a terrorist leader, in that context? Splinter was right, this was war, but the Turtles didn't seem to get that. And that seems to have been Splinter's plan. To show them, in no uncertain terms, THIS is what you are going to have to deal with if you are in the Foot Clan. There's no way around it. If you aren't on board, you are best going your own way, which he was fine with, and probably preferred.

Now you might say, "I'm not in favor of that either!" and that's okay, not arguing that complex issue. I'm simply trying to remain consistent. Let's remember, it was Leo who came up with a plan to ally with Shredder against Krang, all the while planning to betray and probably kill him. Of course Shredder was a long time foe, but Dunn was no less intent on killing them . And yes the world was at stake there but it again, asks the question, do you see yourself as part of the human world or not? If so, why didn't they even consider alerting the authorities to, you know, Krang's plan to bring on the end of the world? A simple military air strike could have resolved the problem on Bunrow island in minutes. Instead they did everything themselves as if it was their job to do it.

In short, I don't know that Splinter's role as head of the Foot Clan should be viewed as moral, but he's still not Shredder. He's broken the law, and he's doing things the Turtles view as immoral, but there's little evidence he has reason to believe the law will do him any good at the moment and the only other option is to go into deep hiding, or, imagine this, just reveal yourselves to the public and hope you can integrate into proper society.

Honestly? I don't really see why they couldn't show up on Oprah and tell their story and become instant celebrities. We're a culture trained on years of ET and sympathetic monster stories (like this one). But...that would be a totally different comic.

myconius
11-30-2016, 05:39 AM
Well I see it as more of a necessary evil, on one hand like you said no morally good person would run the foot but lets face it, the Foot would do more harm then good if anyone but Splinter ran it so maybe Splinter thinks he's the best person to run the Foot in a manner that does the least damage towards innocent people. As for money I could also see the Foot as a protection racket or an organization that stills information.

i feel the same way.
and Yoshi WAS a member of the Foot Clan WAY before his blood feud with Shredder started.
when he took over he did also bring things down a notch to where existing Foot Clan members felt the clan had been "defanged" and wanted to revolt.

Michelangelo never even ONCE tried talking to his father OR brothers.

he just threw a tantrum and left.

PApagreg
12-01-2016, 09:38 PM
Oh I just realized something, you can add bounty hunting to the list of things that the Foot can do for money.

Panda_Kahn_fan
12-25-2016, 01:29 PM
(I think it's time for me to drop my two cents into the forums once more);

The basic matter of what happened here with Splinter and the turtles is simple; Hamato Yoshi was a ninja to begin with. A ninja with a tad more honor than the power-hungry shredder, but still essentially a Japanese mercenary-commando whose clan made a living off of espionage, sabotage, and assassination. Yoshi did not disagree with those activities, he just disagreed with their usage on innocent people. Now that he is in charge of the foot, I believe Yoshi wants to steer away from killing innocents that will turn the clan no profit- things like massacring people to 'send a message'. Instead, he wishes to take the clan back into the shadows, turning it into a feared urban legend that runs things from the darkness, and assassinates criminals for profit, and kills rival criminals who cannot be bought off or reasoned with.

The big problem with the turtles is...while they want to use their martial arts training to help people, and embrace what they see to be the ninja concept of 'honor'. In other words, they have decided they do not wish to be traditional ninjas, they wish to redefine what 'ninja' means. This puts them at odds with what the foot is doing- Mikey was the first to realize this, and the others have all followed. They had the courage to defy tradition, and stand up and tell their Sensei- their father!- no, this is wrong. Can you imagine any other version of the turtles defying splinter like this?! So, Splinter let them walk away, and the turtles and the foot are each on their own separate path now.

And guess what? I believe the turtles are in the right here. They made a personal choice not to be killers, and walked away. I don't think they are going to come crawling back to Splinter, saying 'you were right, the world is a harsh place'. I believe they will continue to stand for what they believe in- they will use the training Splinter the way they want to, that path may one day bring them into conflict with the foot. I believe Splinter may be doing what he thinks is right, but he actually supported his son's decision to leave, believing they will be safer outside of the clan, following Mikey's path of trying to be heroes. It remains to be seen how this will all play out in the end, though.

Powder
01-01-2017, 07:15 AM
Yo, this issue was bananas. I did not expect Dunn to get killed at Splinter's behest, let alone right there on the page in gory detail. Yoooooooo. That was so dope. Splinter's attitude since taking leadership of The Foot is freakin' awesome, he's cooler than cool. :tlol: I can't even. Man. THAT is how you do it, son. On one hand I'm completely in love with the direction they're taking him in, because to me, it feels true to the character. He is, beneath all the Yoda sh*t, a badass. One whose day in the sun has been a long time coming. He's owed that position, that power, those resources. They're his birth-right in this new life, as far as I'm concerned. So seeing him get it & let all these slimeballs know you don't sneeze at him & the team feels SO good. Buuuuuut I don't like that they're using it to play the whole "TMNT don't like killing" angle, wanting us to sympathize with these borderline uncharacteristically pacifistic turtles. Are they trying to paint Splinter as a figure corrupted by power, whose lust for blood rivals that of his arch nemesis? 'Cause, nah, that's not right. He's expelling evil by any means necessary, & sponging the means of those who may continue their nefarious agenda in the face of his mercy isn't greed steering the ship. To keep that ship afloat, they need the tech, the money, the man-power, & so forth. I did not like the way Michelangelo handled Shredder's end & the subsequent seizure of his empire on part of Splinter, but I understood the "need" to do it. While I did feel it could be handled better (or altogether different, even) it did serve the story well. I find Michelangelo delusional & selfish, even if I don't care for it, I can see the reasoning that this could be fault of his immaturity. But for all 4 of the turtles to become so blinded by their emotions, casting logic/facts aside, losing faith in their sensei? Raph gives a damn? Since when?! A big part of why I'm really fired up about this because I'm assuming that the matter will be resolved with an apology (& possible resignation) from Splinter, after seeing the error of his ways. & I hate that notion, it should be the other way around! I'm like, preemptively angry. :tlol: Time will tell... but I want the turtles to friggin' grow a pair.

The turtles themselves should lean somewhat toward being morally grey. They were never meant to be heroes in the first place, no matter what the United Kingdom tells you. :tlol: They're dudes who have the chops to do heroic things sometimes, but the world isn't black & white, theirs especially. Maybe the moral construct of these turtles is an attempt from Tom to make IDW's TMNT stand out in some way among other iterations (who could be seen as the grim ones, the goofy ones, etc.) but I dunno, it wouldn't sit too well with me if they pushed it any further than this.

Anyway, contrary to my impassioned kvetching, I REALLY liked this arc. The book has been running on all cylinders since #50. God speed.

ToTheNines
01-01-2017, 07:38 AM
The guys all leaving worked for me. I agree that IDW Mikey is a bit delusional, but after accepting that, the fact that Splinter used Don and Raph's respective best friends as pawns behind their shells honked them off more than anything.

Leo wasn't ready to run out on him, but Splinter encouraged him to watch over his brothers.

But I also really hope this all doesn't end with Splinter bailing out on the Foot and being painted as the wrong side of this divide.

CyberCubed
01-01-2017, 11:55 AM
Also of note that Splinter was willing to let Dun go, same as he did with the Street Phantoms, and only deciding to kill him once Dun said he would do anything he could to hunt down the Turtles and kill them.

So its not like Splinter is mindlessly killing his enemies, he's giving them choices and sparing them when he can.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-01-2017, 01:10 PM
Also of note that Splinter was willing to let Dun go, same as he did with the Street Phantoms, and only deciding to kill him once Dun said he would do anything he could to hunt down the Turtles and kill them.

So its not like Splinter is mindlessly killing his enemies, he's giving them choices and sparing them when he can.

Agreed.

Sigh. If only IDW had the freedom to tell slightly less "heroic" stories ala Mirage... but as somebody noted, Raph and Don's issues with Splinter aren't that Dun was killed so much as it is that Splinter turned Casey into the Purple Dragons' leader and set up Harold as a hostage.

myconius
01-03-2017, 06:57 AM
i really agree with many of the points being brought up.

one thing i still find interesting (that might be going unnoticed by Michelangelo since he was so quick to bail at the end of #50) was how some of the Foot Clan members weren't very happy with Splinter's less bloodthirsty ways of handling things.

i can totally see why Raph would be upset but Casey being moved into leading the Purple Dragons, and COMPLETELY understand Donatello being upset that his friendship with Harold was sacrificed just to flush out the Street Phantoms.

i think Leo probably got hit by all of this the hardest.
even as Chunin, he still was kept out of the loop. made to feel like a mere pawn.
and finding out that this was an intentional act by his father just to drive him and his brothers away from danger, it was still being driven away.

Splinter is embracing the hand that's been dealt to him, and protecting his sons the only way he possibly can.