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Vegita-San
12-02-2016, 06:27 PM
My feelings on the show from the start where mixed. I loved the theme song. I loved the animation. I loved the music. Xever and Bradford pre mutation where awesome. New Shredder wasn't bad. I loved Tall splinter.

I hated Teen April and Casey. I hated Casey's design. Weakest Baxter Stockman ever.. he wasn't even a scientist. more like tech support.

But, I was willing to give it a chance for at least two seasons like I do with most new shows. And being Corporate TMNT now, I wouldn't feel so bad if I decided to stop watching, as they wouldn't miss me being a big empire :).

Somewhere around Season 2 I began to loose interest, and it all but plummeted during the super weird farm retreat episodes of season 3. Season 4 renewed interest a little...but for the most part i had stopped caring as a die hard fan by then and didn't mind if I missed episodes.



Now that Season 5 is confirmed to be the last, I feel like it's time to finally go back to the beginning and re watch it from scratch. No long breaks. just 4 seasons back to back to back. I want to see if it runs better that way, also with no pre conceived notions of what it could be.

So far, I'm 8 episodes in...and I forgot how fun Season 1 was. Going from Memory, Season 1 to Season 2, something seemed to change. It'll be interesting to see if I can figure out what.

Anyone else doing the same thing?

CyberCubed
12-02-2016, 06:39 PM
This is like your umpteenth post whining about the Nick cartoon. If you do decide to marathon the show properly without any breaks, you'll probably like it a lot more.

And teen April works fine for this show. If April was a 25+ year old woman interacting with Nick's Turtles, it would look weird as hell.

snake
12-02-2016, 06:47 PM
Season 2 just sucked and everything since then has fluctuating levels of quality. Season 1 is so damn good outside of maybe 1 or 2 episodes.

Aaronardo
12-02-2016, 07:07 PM
I rewatched Season 1 a while back and it reminded me how damn good it was. Sucks that we get only one season with Sternin and Ventimillia serving as excellent head writers, only to get four seasons after with Auman.

Honestly I loved Season 2, though. For its mediocre episodes, it really made up for it with some of its greats. It was Season 3 that started the horrible turn of events for me, with Season 4 just flat-out cementing it. Bleh. I feel like a broken record at this point.

Vegita-San
12-02-2016, 07:39 PM
I rewatched Season 1 a while back and it reminded me how damn good it was. Sucks that we get only one season with Sternin and Ventimillia serving as excellent head writers, only to get four seasons after with Auman.

Honestly I loved Season 2, though. For its mediocre episodes, it really made up for it with some of its greats. It was Season 3 that started the horrible turn of events for me, with Season 4 just flat-out cementing it. Bleh. I feel like a broken record at this point.

so do I ;o). but what the hell, not much else to talk about with everything all but dead again.

Is that really what changed? hmm..I'll have to pay more attention to the writers.

I DO remember more weird stuff from season 2 on and less 'grounded' material.

Season three also has the WEIRDEST villain ever created in stage, screen, or film. who was that idiot that talked to his thumb?

Coola Yagami
12-02-2016, 08:07 PM
And teen April works fine for this show. If April was a 25+ year old woman interacting with Nick's Turtles, it would look weird as hell.

Not really, but like the Mirage comics, after her introduction she's probably back off and not be so involved in their adventures. She definitely won't be running around with them, and she probably wouldn't have a father to kidnap which was the main reason she was so involved in the adventures.

Vegita-San
12-02-2016, 08:18 PM
Not really, but like the Mirage comics, after her introduction she's probably back off and not be so involved in their adventures. She definitely won't be running around with them, and she probably wouldn't have a father to kidnap which was the main reason she was so involved in the adventures.

when i see some of these quoted texts, I sometimes wonder who works for nick on here and who doesn't with the quoted company lines ;o)

There was really no reason to get april so involved in their adventures, as it's pretty clear they don't know what to do with her. first they made her a ninja, then psychic powers...and now, she's just kind of there after her plot line with her father wrapped up.

MY guess was making april and casey a teen was a direction from Nick, because most ceo's think kids hate watching adults on screen.

That, and just about every show on a kids network has to have kids helping to save the day. 4 mutant turltle kids are not enough ;o)


I still sometimes wonder why they made Xever a Fish if they never intended to have any underwater adventures.

HE was pretty much written out of the show once he got mutated.
despite being included in the intro.

LeotheLateBloomer
12-02-2016, 08:59 PM
teen April works fine for this show. If April was a 25+ year old woman interacting with Nick's Turtles, it would look weird as hell.

How so?

when i see some of these quoted texts, I sometimes wonder who works for nick on here and who doesn't with the quoted company lines ;o)

There was really no reason to get april so involved in their adventures, as it's pretty clear they don't know what to do with her. first they made her a ninja, then psychic powers...and now, she's just kind of there after her plot line with her father wrapped up.

Correction! They made her half-human/half-alien, then Jean Grey, and finally, a kunoichi. Initially, I did like the idea of April being a teenager as it was something different but they've made her less interesting for me.

Vegita-San
12-02-2016, 09:03 PM
How so?

Correction! They made her half-human/half-alien, then Jean Grey, and finally, a kunoichi. Initially, I did like the idea of April being a teenager as it was something different but they've made her less interesting for me.


I forgot about the half human crap. and the invulnerability to mutagen for some reason, but also not ever touched upon again.

I'm guessing the jean grey reference (not a big xmen fan) was the Alien Crystal finale?

what little iremember of x 3 was something like that i think.

PApagreg
12-02-2016, 09:22 PM
Correction! They made her half-human/half-alien, then Jean Grey, and finally, a kunoichi. Initially, I did like the idea of April being a teenager as it was something different but they've made her less interesting for me.

No it was human/alien hybrid, kunoichi then Jean Grey/Tetsuo, she had her little Phoenix force after she was made into a ninja.

victory_angel
12-02-2016, 09:48 PM
How so?


The producers went with April being a contemporary to the Turtles because they thought a grown woman with a job hanging out with a bunch of teenagers looked a little too inappropriate.

CyberCubed
12-02-2016, 10:35 PM
Season 2 just sucked and everything since then has fluctuating levels of quality. Season 1 is so damn good outside of maybe 1 or 2 episodes.

Season 2 had tons of great episodes. The only real weaker/bad ones was the Sir Malachi ep, and depending on what your view on the Pizzaface episode was.

All the other eps were pretty great or average. Season 3 again started off with a mixed bag as the Northampton eps were hit or miss, but after they got back to New York most of the eps were good.

Nearly all of Season 4 was enjoyable too. Only one I didn't care for was that one they went inside Mikey's mind at the beginning of the space arc.

LeotheLateBloomer
12-03-2016, 06:19 AM
The producers went with April being a contemporary to the Turtles because they thought a grown woman with a job hanging out with a bunch of teenagers looked a little too inappropriate.

I know the reason for that. I'm asking CC why he thinks an Adult April wouldn't fit this version.

Coola Yagami
12-03-2016, 06:43 AM
The producers went with April being a contemporary to the Turtles because they thought a grown woman with a job hanging out with a bunch of teenagers looked a little too inappropriate.

The thing is though, that's how it's always been. And she's not hanging around normal kids. She's hanging with talking humanized turtles that at their age are capable of fighting ninja clans and alien invasions and saving the world. And she doesn't have to hang with them all that much since she has her own life to live.

shredder orokusaki
12-03-2016, 07:01 AM
The show is 1-1,5 years awy from it's rumored end(that it might not be true since Nickelodeon willl be stupid to end my show so soon) and you are talking like it has already ended. Wait until season 5 ends and if by then we have OFFICIAL confirmation from nickelodeon thati t ends then come and make a thread like this. For now it is just a rumor. Delete it now and if needed recreate when we realy are at the end of the show. Dont believe anything rumor you read on the internet.

Vegita-San
12-03-2016, 07:14 AM
The producers went with April being a contemporary to the Turtles because they thought a grown woman with a job hanging out with a bunch of teenagers looked a little too inappropriate.

None of the other shows had a problem with it, ESPECIALLY when 4kids april moved in for a bit. they looked after her like an adopted sister, and it was cute :).

Nothing creepy at all..so I call bull on that excuse.

Metalwolf
12-03-2016, 09:35 AM
My feelings on the show from the start where mixed. I loved the theme song. I loved the animation. I loved the music. Xever and Bradford pre mutation where awesome. New Shredder wasn't bad. I loved Tall splinter.

I hated Teen April and Casey. I hated Casey's design. Weakest Baxter Stockman ever.. he wasn't even a scientist. more like tech support.

But, I was willing to give it a chance for at least two seasons like I do with most new shows. And being Corporate TMNT now, I wouldn't feel so bad if I decided to stop watching, as they wouldn't miss me being a big empire :).

Somewhere around Season 2 I began to loose interest, and it all but plummeted during the super weird farm retreat episodes of season 3. Season 4 renewed interest a little...but for the most part i had stopped caring as a die hard fan by then and didn't mind if I missed episodes.



Now that Season 5 is confirmed to be the last, I feel like it's time to finally go back to the beginning and re watch it from scratch. No long breaks. just 4 seasons back to back to back. I want to see if it runs better that way, also with no pre conceived notions of what it could be.

So far, I'm 8 episodes in...and I forgot how fun Season 1 was. Going from Memory, Season 1 to Season 2, something seemed to change. It'll be interesting to see if I can figure out what.

Anyone else doing the same thing?I'm not able to rewatch (broken computer and Wii U cannot run Amazon vids) but I remember the excellent first season too. Season 2 became hit and miss, with good episodes like Wrath of Tigerclaw and Lonely Mutation, along with introducing Razhar. However, it was also the season that first emphasized how much they overdo it with the Fred Wolf elements, with an initial cameo by the FW Turtles later followed in the third with introducing B and R, displacing this show's native original mutant duo (who had pretty much degenerated to comic stand ins at this point.) Season Two is the season where characterization started to fall apart, with less development of the villains and overuse of the Kraang.

Season Three had a bad first half. Some of the episodes had good bits in them, but mostly they sucked. I watched all of the way up until Return, but after that, couldn't keep watching. Initially it was because of the bad computer, but by then most of the episodes didn't seem to be all that appealing after I read enough about them. I didn't like April's increasing Mary Suing, Rahzar and Fishface's further degeneration into generic mutant henchmen, Splinter's strange tendency to act like a cartoon rat at times (like being overly fond of cheese and having a giant exercise wheel) when he was originally a serious character who would fight to hold onto his humanity.

Season Four, even though I haven't watched it, I know the space episodes would not have appealed. I liked somewhat the idea of a crossover with the OT, it sort of introduced the idea of each 'universe' having their own 80's and Mirage dimension, which I liked as it minimizes TF's insult. However, this still comes off as relying too much on the OT, since it was pretty much done to appeal to older fans, and ultimately didn't seem to do much for the show thereafter. Now in this season Tigerclaw is in the process of getting nerfed, and April has reached the level of Jean Grey's Phoenix. I don't know if she'll stay that way without the crystal, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I know there is yet one more OT crossover to do, probably the last gasp to draw in fans before this show ends. If this show didn't rely so much on the OT already it would have been cute, but enough's enough already. I hope the next show doesn't do this this degree, even though I like the OT.

neatoman
12-03-2016, 10:11 AM
Uh, well, looking back at it, season 1 is probably the best season. Just looking over an episode list, I see that it was a lot less "Mutant of the Week" and a lot more of establishing characters and plotlines.

This is probably why I find the show to ultimately be a bit of a disappointment, after season 1 the show just kind of stopped having an organic narrative. After that, most things just started to seem kind of forced.

CyberCubed
12-03-2016, 12:26 PM
The thing is though, that's how it's always been. And she's not hanging around normal kids. She's hanging with talking humanized turtles that at their age are capable of fighting ninja clans and alien invasions and saving the world. And she doesn't have to hang with them all that much since she has her own life to live.

Nick's Turtles behave like young teenagers and look younger than all other incarnations, so yes an adult April with these Turtles would be weird.

In the original cartoon, 4kids, Mirage, etc....the Turtles all looked and behaved like 20 something year old College students. So April being a 28 year old woman fit better.

Tarris Vaal
12-03-2016, 01:36 PM
I've found that early season 3 is a lot better when watched in one go. The delays we had to suffer through really didn't do that segment any favours first time around.

CyberCubed
12-03-2016, 03:15 PM
Yeah, of the Northampton eps the only ones I didn't like was the Bigfoot episode and the one with the Dream Beavers. The car mutant one wasn't that good either.

But all the others were fine. The Creep, April's mother ep, the Punk Frogs, the one with the giant bird, and the final one where they were training in their spirit gear were all good.

PApagreg
12-03-2016, 09:38 PM
Nick's Turtles behave like young teenagers and look younger than all other incarnations, so yes an adult April with these Turtles would be weird.

In the original cartoon, 4kids, Mirage, etc....the Turtles all looked and behaved like 20 something year old College students. So April being a 28 year old woman fit better.

Generator Rex had the main character who mostly interacted with adults and no one thought that was weird.

Vegita-San
12-03-2016, 09:47 PM
Generator Rex had the main character who mostly interacted with adults and no one thought that was weird.

that's apparently the company line that i remember from somewhere way back when the show first started. i think it was in an interview somewhere and it's stuck around ever since despite being ridiculous...

CyberCubed
12-03-2016, 09:58 PM
Generator Rex had the main character who mostly interacted with adults and no one thought that was weird.

I don't think adult April would fit in this show at all. The teenage aspect of her works perfectly for this show.

PApagreg
12-03-2016, 10:04 PM
I don't think adult April would fit in this show at all. The teenage aspect of her works perfectly for this show.

Not really, the only thing we got out of it was the crappy love triangle and her dad which the writers only use for angst.

CyberCubed
12-03-2016, 10:14 PM
Not really, the only thing we got out of it was the crappy love triangle and her dad which the writers only use for angst.

What on earth are you talking about? April has gone on missions with the Turtles, she had an arc with Karai, she grows up alongside them, and she's been developed throughout the show.

Yeah, keep focusing on a few aspects like a love triangle that isn't even played for anything but laughs.

PApagreg
12-03-2016, 10:17 PM
What on earth are you talking about? April has gone on missions with the Turtles, she had an arc with Karai, she grows up alongside them, and she's been developed throughout the show.


What the hell do you mean "arc with Karai" also she can't go on missions and grow as a person while being an adult because?

Donatello19
12-03-2016, 10:17 PM
There are a lot of things about this show that have changed, and to me, not for the better.

The main one to me being April. When we were first introduced to April, I loved her. Having April be a teenager felt so fresh, new, and breathed a lot of new life into the character. She was an absolute joy to watch with the turtles, but now...not so much. Not at all, actually. I really hate what they've turned her into, trying to make her more interesting by giving her a weird past and superpowers has actually done the opposite for me. To me, she's not even April O' Neil anymore. I don't know what she is anymore, but she really does not feel like the same character anymore. I miss when she was normal, when having her be in an episode was exciting because we'd get to see her with he turtles and have the turtles exposed to more human things, heck, when she wasn't even IN every single episode. I miss that. She went from one of my favorite main characters in this show to one of my least, and it's sad. I want to still like her, but I just can't get behind all of this new stuff they're doing with her.

Karai also, to an extent. Not nearly as bad as what they've done to April, but I hate that they mutated Karai. Actually no, scratch that. I hate that they had Karai still retain her mutant powers even after being cured. Not only does it really not make much sense, but it's just stupid to me. It feels like they didn't know if they wanted her to stay a mutant or stay a human, so they did both. It doesn't pop up that she even is a mutant THAT much, but when she does just randomly turn into her mutated form, it feels shocking and out of place. Again, this is more of a nitpick I guess, but I really just wish they would have gone with one or the other.

Shredder. He seemed extremely threatening and dangerous at first, but now...honestly not so much. Maybe it's just that we see so much of him now compared to what we used to, but I don't know. something just feels off about him now. I remember "The Gauntlet" was the most mind blowing and epic episode to me due to the first fight the turtles had with Shredder, and also the in the Season 1 finale with Splinter and Shredder's first fight, and to me we haven't reached the level of awesomeness again in any fight scene with Shredder since. I don't even really like what they're doing with Super Shredder that much either, to me he should have been saved for one epic "final boss" type of fight so to say, not have an entire arc about him. It's not BAD, just kind of weird to see them stretching it out this far. Also, Super Shredder's design is awful.

I miss the original mutants they made for this show. Remember Snakeweed? SpiderBytez? What happened to them? Remember when everyone thought Dogpound and Fishface would be the new Bebop and Rocksteady? I wanted that, but they replaced them with actual Bebop and Rocksteady and even changed Dogpound completley just to make one reference. To me his original design as Dogpound was actually much more appealing. Fishface is still how he was but we barely see him now anyway due to Shredder having like twenty new recruits for henchmen with each season.

Casey I never really LIKED, but I tolerated him. Now though, whenever he does pop up, it feels more of a like "oh yeah, you exist in this show" kind of thing. They could have done him a lot better or just not have him at all honestly, he really only felt relevant for a very small amount of episodes.

One thing that has been a blessing though, is Splinter and the turtles. They've all remained super likable throughout the entire show, and to me have developed a lot and have become even more interesting with each episode, arc, and season. If anything, I think Mikey does deserve a little more focus/growth in terms of character, but other than that they've been perfect.

As for the show itself:

Season 1 was the greatest.

Season 2 I liked, not as much as Season 1, but I still enjoyed it. I feel like my enjoyment of it had a lot to do with just coming off of the first season though.

Season 3 is when things started to go downhill for me. Did not really enjoy any of the weird farmhouse episodes, and honestly I can't even remember that many of them to begin with. We still got some good stuff after those, but looking at the season as a whole, it's defintley weaker than the first two.

Season 4 has, to me, been the worst season so far. The whole thing with Splinter being "dead" held no emotional impact because 1, they've done it in this show before, and now have even done it again after, and 2, they introduced the whole reset button plot gimmick pretty much as soon as they lose Splinter. The space episodes felt like a complete chore to watch honestly, I really can't say I liked any of them and certainly would not want to rematch any of them anytime soon. Despite all this though, I will say that the stuff we got and are still getting after that whole arc, is pretty good.

I really loved this show a lot in the beginning, and I still am interested to see how they wrap things up, but I don't even know. Something is just missing from it recently, it doesn't have the same charm it used to. After writing all of this I guess I am kind of glad it's ending after Season 5, because god only knows how much more they would have changed had it went on for longer.

I will still continue to watch and support this show until the end, because I am a fan of it, but I do wish some things would have been done differently.

CyberCubed
12-03-2016, 10:21 PM
The space arc was fantastic. I rewatched it a few weeks ago, and the eps were quite good. Only ones I didn't care for was the journey inside Mikey's mind, and maybe the Wyrm episode, but all the others were fine.

Leofan26
12-04-2016, 12:59 PM
The one thing I've really grown to dislike is April, she was fine in the beginning but the later seasons when she developed this strange powers and they began to focus more on her putting the turtles in the background well, I started to get more and more annoyed with her character. Sure I hated the love triangle plot but at least she wasn't shoved in our faces and over used powers, I hate her being able to match up against Shredder like that while the turtles are still having a hard time. I preferred 4kids April by along run.

Casey, meh. I could live without him, Nick writers seem confused how to write him. 4kids Casey may not have been the brightest but at least he was funny and helped the turtles, he didn't go ewe and awe sparkles type character this version does.

Shredder I think is too powerful and while I know Spliner and Shredder rivalry should get focus I feel like the turtles don't get better fighting him as seasons go on or that they don't have a reason to get involved, Splinter handles his own and well. 4kida at least gave good reason for the turtles to be involved and improved in fighting skills as fights went on.

TMNTInsighter
12-04-2016, 01:21 PM
Not really, the only thing we got out of it was the crappy love triangle and her dad which the writers only use for angst.

What the hell do you mean "arc with Karai" also she can't go on missions and grow as a person while being an adult because?

^These.
And PApa's right. There was no 'arc' with Karai. April and she have had moments together on the show (mostly being at each others throats though) with "Karai's Vendetta" being the most prominent, but there wasn't anything really resembling an 'arc' involving them.

There are a lot of things about this show that have changed, and to me, not for the better.

The main one to me being April. When we were first introduced to April, I loved her. Having April be a teenager felt so fresh, new, and breathed a lot of new life into the character. She was an absolute joy to watch with the turtles, but now...not so much. Not at all, actually. I really hate what they've turned her into, trying to make her more interesting by giving her a weird past and superpowers has actually done the opposite for me. To me, she's not even April O' Neil anymore. I don't know what she is anymore, but she really does not feel like the same character anymore. I miss when she was normal, when having her be in an episode was exciting because we'd get to see her with he turtles and have the turtles exposed to more human things, heck, when she wasn't even IN every single episode. I miss that. She went from one of my favorite main characters in this show to one of my least, and it's sad. I want to still like her, but I just can't get behind all of this new stuff they're doing with her.

I agree with the teenager part, it was not an issue for me either. To me, the weird past and powers also were not an issue; how they were developed and utilized was the problem. They were all over the place with her past, her powers, her martial arts skills, her training in both, AND her crystal arc this season and they have not come together satisfactorily (if at all).

Karai also, to an extent. Not nearly as bad as what they've done to April, but I hate that they mutated Karai. Actually no, scratch that. I hate that they had Karai still retain her mutant powers even after being cured. Not only does it really not make much sense, but it's just stupid to me. It feels like they didn't know if they wanted her to stay a mutant or stay a human, so they did both. It doesn't pop up that she even is a mutant THAT much, but when she does just randomly turn into her mutated form, it feels shocking and out of place. Again, this is more of a nitpick I guess, but I really just wish they would have gone with one or the other.

This is where I disagree. There was nothing wrong with her mutation in my eyes since it helped provide the excellent "Vengeance is Mine" with an almost Shakespearian kind of tone as well as how her form was useful in rescuing Splinter at the end of Season 2. Not only is she also a mutant now like her family but it also is fitting in terms of her character traits. How they've utilized her mutation this season though is another matter, one in which I can definitely agree with you there.
It would be nice to see her in her snake form help Splinter alongside in a fight against enemies like the Shredder for example, if just to provide a more poetic contrast to Saki's plan in ViM about a mutant snake being the end of a mutant rat.

P.S. By 'cured' I assume you mean the expulsion of the brain worm right? I was wondering what you meant by that seeing as how Karai has never been cured of her mutation.

I miss the original mutants they made for this show. Remember Snakeweed? SpiderBytez? What happened to them? Remember when everyone thought Dogpound and Fishface would be the new Bebop and Rocksteady? I wanted that, but they replaced them with actual Bebop and Rocksteady and even changed Dogpound completley just to make one reference. To me his original design as Dogpound was actually much more appealing. Fishface is still how he was but we barely see him now anyway due to Shredder having like twenty new recruits for henchmen with each season.

Casey I never really LIKED, but I tolerated him. Now though, whenever he does pop up, it feels more of a like "oh yeah, you exist in this show" kind of thing. They could have done him a lot better or just not have him at all honestly, he really only felt relevant for a very small amount of episodes.

One thing that has been a blessing though, is Splinter and the turtles. They've all remained super likable throughout the entire show, and to me have developed a lot and have become even more interesting with each episode, arc, and season. If anything, I think Mikey does deserve a little more focus/growth in terms of character, but other than that they've been perfect.

These last three points I agree with you though the last one about Splinter and the turtles is pretty much a given to me. The reason I say that is because I've always felt that this is a franchise whose success is derived from its protagonists rather than both them and their antagonists. They're always the most developed and have the best dynamic amongst each other. The antagonists are pretty much standard fare. Some of them are creative don't get me wrong, but they're neither well developed nor come close to the iconic status of the heroes.
Back to point, I definitely share your frustration with Casey. It seemed that he definitely had a lot of interesting material to come following his debut episode, though for some reason it never came to fruition. I've never understood why we've never gotten to know his family (they're a huge reason he does what he does after all) being my most prominent. After the last good episode involving him that I recall ("Casey Jones vs the Underworld"), he's basically just a more comedic version of Raphael now.

For the show itself I think it's a toss up b/w Season 1 and 2 as the best. Season 1 had the best overall quality of episodes while Season 2 had some of the best episodes of the entire series to compensate for its not so good ones. Season 3 was somewhere between good and mediocre with two of the best episodes of the series ("Tale of the Yokai" and "Annihilation: Earth!") to fall back on. Season 4, other than a few bright spots; I agree with quite a few others here, has been a real mess. I'd definitely like to marathon this series at some point though I just can't bring myself to it since we don't really know when Season 5 will kick off, let alone the last four episodes of this one!

Vegita-San
12-04-2016, 02:11 PM
Season 4, other than a few bright spots; I agree with quite a few others here, has been a real mess. I'd definitely like to marathon this series at some point though I just can't bring myself to it since we don't really know when Season 5 will kick off, let alone the last four episodes of this one!

I don't know why, I felt like Season 4 was the most impressive since Season 1.

It felt like it finally got it's act together. and had a cohesive story line with a start and a finish.

one reason why i feel like now is a time to rewatch this series, is because we know season 5 is the last. and mostly because i've only seen all but three of these episodes ONCE in this series. that's never happened before in a turtles series with me.

So far.. i'm up to episode 14, and it's amazing how different and fun the seriesin season 1 is compared to later season 2 or 3 episodes which felt like so much of a chore, some i didn't finish watching until two weeks later..

CyberCubed
12-04-2016, 02:52 PM
Season 2 and Season 3 after the Northampton arc had tons of great episodes. Season 4 has been fantastic in both the space arc and the NY episodes.

Aaronardo
12-04-2016, 03:16 PM
/snip/

Man. I can't believe how similar my opinion is to yours. Nice post. If we could +1 posts then there's one from me.

Agreed above that Season 2 had an abundance of great episodes and, from Vision Quest onward, Season 3 had some gems as well. Can't say the same for the space arc, partially due to how long it was drawn out, partially due to episodes being so boring/humorless/lame they practically blend together. The one time this series there wasn't character oozing out of the, y'know, characters for me was definitely the space arc.

I mean, going through the episode list, there are about 5 episodes from the space arc that I would watch again. And only 3 of those 5 that I actually remember enjoying.

3. Out of 15.

Now, that is purely subjective and really just me, but man episodes like The Moons of Thalos 3, The War for Dimension X, Earth's Last Stand and The Evil of Dregg just outline some of the worst of the series, and episodes of the arc tended to lean more toward the latter extreme than the former.

But, credit should be given where credit is due, and after Broken Foot, the show really has pulled itself back together. I really hope Season 5 can at least be as good as Season 2 was. Wishful thinking, I know, but in a perfect world, all the seasons would've been as good as Season 1.

CyberCubed
12-04-2016, 03:33 PM
I mean, going through the episode list, there are about 5 episodes from the space arc that I would watch again. And only 3 of those 5 that I actually remember enjoying.

3. Out of 15.

Now, that is purely subjective and really just me, but man episodes like The Moons of Thalos 3, The War for Dimension X, Earth's Last Stand and The Evil of Dregg just outline some of the worst of the series, and episodes of the arc tended to lean more toward the latter extreme than the former.


You're right that's just you, because I enjoyed nearly all of the space episodes. War of Dimension X especially was great, although I do agree The Evil of Dregg was lackluster.

ABrown
12-04-2016, 03:57 PM
Nah, I'm not interested in rewatching the Nick series. It hasn't entertained me nearly enough to rewatch it. The original cartoon or the 4Kids series on the other hand, I'm always up for rewatching.

CyberCubed
12-04-2016, 04:02 PM
Nah, I'm not interested in rewatching the Nick series. It hasn't entertained me nearly enough to rewatch it. The original cartoon or the 4Kids series on the other hand, I'm always up for rewatching.

Rewatching in chronological order is always enjoyable

precision
12-04-2016, 06:14 PM
I'm probably in the minority when I say this, but I miss the stealthy take down attacks and staying in the shadows. They are ninjas in name only and the latest episodes haven't done anything except for running straight at the enemy.

Sabacooza
12-04-2016, 09:11 PM
Now, that is purely subjective and really just me, but man episodes like The Moons of Thalos 3, The War for Dimension X, Earth's Last Stand and The Evil of Dregg just outline some of the worst of the series. Nope, it's not just you. I found those episodes to be total garbage and pretty unbearable.

PApagreg
12-04-2016, 09:41 PM
I'm probably in the minority when I say this, but I miss the stealthy take down attacks and staying in the shadows. They are ninjas in name only and the latest episodes haven't done anything except for running straight at the enemy.


I also sort of missed the sense of pragmatism the Hamato Clan had, it made them feel like legit ninjas in a way.

But, credit should be given where credit is due, and after Broken Foot, the show really has pulled itself back together. I really hope Season 5 can at least be as good as Season 2 was. Wishful thinking, I know, but in a perfect world, all the seasons would've been as good as Season 1.

Even the "Dark April"

CyberCubed
12-04-2016, 10:50 PM
Nope, it's not just you. I found those episodes to be total garbage and pretty unbearable.

I don't see anything unbearable about those episodes. I don't like Mona's Lisa's crush on Raph either, but that doesn't affect the rest of the episode.

TMNTInsighter
12-05-2016, 06:30 AM
Man. I can't believe how similar my opinion is to yours. Nice post. If we could +1 posts then there's one from me.

...

Now, that is purely subjective and really just me, but man episodes like The Moons of Thalos 3, The War for Dimension X, Earth's Last Stand and The Evil of Dregg just outline some of the worst of the series, and episodes of the arc tended to lean more toward the latter extreme than the former.

....

We definitely should be able to +1 posts here. Definitely.

Other than "Moons of Thalos 3" (I have to give at least one episode featuring the talented Keith David a break you know) I agree about those episodes. "War for Dimension X" and "Evil of Dregg" I feel are so bad in particular, that I almost feel like I have to get a vomit bag if I were to rewatch them.

I'm probably in the minority when I say this, but I miss the stealthy take down attacks and staying in the shadows. They are ninjas in name only and the latest episodes haven't done anything except for running straight at the enemy.

^Future TMNT handlers should take note!
...I don't know what else I can say but this is the way I've been feeling about the TMNT in general for quite some time and it's great to see it come from someone else.

I don't see anything unbearable about those episodes. I don't like Mona's Lisa's crush on Raph either, but that doesn't affect the rest of the episode.

Mona (and Sal) don't provide anything that affects the episode at all! At least not anything that matters! I was going to save this for when I would justify my final rankings of the S4 episodes, but just think about this for a minute: other than unnecessarily regurgitating their conflict of mistrust from "Moons of Thalos 3" (except it's the Kraang/Utroms now instead of the turtles), if you were to cut Mona and Sal out of the episode, what would you have lost from the story that was of actual importance?

...Nothing!

It would have been a ton better if they were replaced with the Triceratons which I'm sure is what would've been expected and hoped for when you see the title: "The War for Dimension X". It's always nice to see Bishop sure, as is the expectation of getting to better understand the Utroms as well (even though it was not as satisfying as it should have been), but this was not an episode that should have been handed over to the comedy writers (Burke and Wyatt).

OMGG what a piece of garbage "The War for Dimension X" was! Needed to say that. ;)

GoldMutant
12-05-2016, 08:21 AM
I don't see anything unbearable about those episodes. I don't like Mona's Lisa's crush on Raph either, but that doesn't affect the rest of the episode.

The only thing Moons of Thalos 3 and Evil of Dregg have going for them is that crush. It's abysmal in my opinion and just felt irritating. The difference though is what else made them bad.

Moons I honestly didn't like the animation. Compared to Beyond the Known Universe's vibrant color, the bleak state of Moons is such a charging switch. Winter areas are some of my favorites in gaming and in general so to see it look like that... really makes me feel too depressed. Evil I never want to talk about, by far the worst of the season for me in many ways.

As for War for Dimension X!, I kinda felt it was the best of the three Mona episodes (I don't count her cameo in NYC for Insecta) but still pretty weak. Didn't like how nearly every scene she was in was kissing Raphael; beyond it, it just was really unsatisfying in it's origins of the Kraang. It really should've been longer.

Vegita-San
12-05-2016, 08:51 AM
Dregg, just like so many others before him, just felt like a waste of space.


The biggest evil thing he ever did was get insulted at, I think it was Raph, interupting a sale he was making.

Seriously, that was his entire grief.

He wasn't an exiled Krang like warlord. he didn't have an army. he didn't have allies. he was just..him and angry at a sale gone bad.


how lame can you get?

CyberCubed
12-05-2016, 11:31 AM
Dregg, just like so many others before him, just felt like a waste of space.

He wasn't an exiled Krang like warlord. he didn't have an army. he didn't have allies. he was just..him and angry at a sale gone bad.
how lame can you get?

Once again, you're wrong. I'm starting to wonder if you actually watch the show.

Dregg was an alien crimelord in this show. He has an army of bugs/insects that he creates himself. We had Bellybomb working for him in one episode. We had Armaggon working for him as a bounty hunter.

And calling him a "waste of space" when he was one of the main villains in the space arc besides the Triceratons is absurd.

TMNTInsighter
12-05-2016, 07:22 PM
Dregg, just like so many others before him, just felt like a waste of space.


The biggest evil thing he ever did was get insulted at, I think it was Raph, interupting a sale he was making.

Seriously, that was his entire grief.

He wasn't an exiled Krang like warlord. he didn't have an army. he didn't have allies. he was just..him and angry at a sale gone bad.


how lame can you get?

While your post isn't entirely correct (he did have an army of insectoids (?) after all and while they weren't allies Armaggon & Bellybomb were still in his service), I agree that Dregg was a disappointment.
He may not have been voiced by a VA icon like Tony Jay but you still have Peter Stormare from "Fargo" fame (though he does sound a lot like Jeffrey Combs at times). He wasn't as good as Tony's Dregg but he had his moments such as unintentionally getting the turtles from Point A to Point B in "The Cosmic Ocean" and pulling the distraction that he did in "Evil of Dregg" to keep the turtles from the final BHG piece for another episode (if that was the case mind you, it's the best way I can guess at the existence of the Dregg robot after all). But when you have a character as underrated as he was back in the original toon, you've got to work extra hard to make him respectable and they did not do that. It's very fitting that, in his final episode, he ended up being duped when dealing with the real enemy of the space arc: the Triceratons. Not because they were smarter mind you but because Dregg was pretty stupid!

ssjup81
12-05-2016, 08:28 PM
Hm, for me, I started watching this show after I saw one of Andre’s reviews about it and a friend of mine showed me a clip from the Wormquake ep with the OT group. I loved that since they had the original voice actors back, but it still didn’t interest me enough to watch this series. Irma was the reason. Andre’s review of one of the eps which featured Irma had me highly curious about the character and how she’d play into this series. By that point, season 2 was already around and the latest aired ep was Pizzaface so I don’t have all that longing and nostalgia or whatever for the year 2012 like some others.

Anyway, I guess I don’t prefer one season over the other. I guess I’m neutral on it as I like something about every single season. I still go back and rewatch eps. I mean, one of my fav season 1 eps, surprisingly, is Parasitica (sp?). I’ve watched that a ton of times, along with the Gauntlet, New Girl in Town, TCRI…

For season 2, seems I favored, Invasion of the Squirrelnoids, the Wrath of Tigerclaw, Into Dimension X, Fungus Humungus, Slash and Destroy, Vengeance is Mine, the Invasion…

For season 3, seems I favored, In Dreams, Turtles in Time, Vision Quest, the Pig and the Rhino (surprisingly), Casey Jones vs the Underworld, Buried Secrets, Return to New York, Serpent Hunt …

So far for season 4, I enjoyed, and watched it more than at least twice, are…Broken Foot, Journey to the Center of Mikey’s Mind, Riddle of the Ancient Aeons, Mutant Gangland, City at War, Super Shredder…

So yeah, can’t really say I like season 1 more than season 2, or any other. Feels about the same to me.

I think that so far for this series, there are only one episode I legitimately hate…Tale of the Youkai. Coming in a close second would be that Wonderful World of Wyrm ep.

TMNTInsighter
12-05-2016, 08:42 PM
...
I think that so far for this series, there are only one episode I legitimately hate…Tale of the Youkai.

:o ?????????????????

ssjup81
12-05-2016, 10:56 PM
:o ?????????????????I know I mentioned in the thread discussing the actual episode…I think. My reasons for hating the episode is a bit petty, though. For me, the ep as a whole felt incomplete, like there were a bunch of deleted scenes, which took away from the story and left gaps. It’s the only episode to date that has made me feel this way about it, but I also understand that they can only put in so much with a 22-minute show.

This is long… ^^
As for petty reasons…the appearance of Sky Tree seriously bugged me. It wouldn’t have existed 15, 16 years ago. They were working on it in 2010 and was completed in 2011.

The clans being that close to Tokyo also bothered me as it feels totally off from what the country is actually like geographically. They should’ve been in a rural area, or at least someplace in the mountains or near them. A place like Yamanashi would’ve made a heck of a lot more sense or someplace in Mie or Shizuoka have areas near mountains and stuff and still in Honshu (like Tokyo)? In other words, I don’t know of any places near or from the mountains, where you can have a clear view of Tokyo like that...maybe Mt. Takao, but that could be pushing it. I know Sky Tree is impressive and visible due to its size when far off, but that’s just pushing it, imo. Why didn’t they just have them in Kyoto or Nara or another former Japan capital that have some more traditional aspects to them along with more nature? Tokyo is an urban place.

My problem with the above is similar to how I felt about Disney’s Pochahontas. I hated that movie not only for the historical inaccuracies and the convoluted John Smith x Pochahantos nonsense since they aged her up, but it just had me scratching my head thinking, “Have these people ever been to Virginia?”

The whole relationship between Tang Shen and Yoshi was also highly ambiguous. Saki wanted her to choose him. She already had a kid. Yoshi and Tang Shen didn’t even seem like they were married and stuff. This is Japan. This country is pretty conservative. It looks bad to be an unwed mother. There are even landlords that refuse renting to a couple consisting of a man and a woman, unless they’re married. Mixed genders sharing a living space (unless it’s a sharehouse) isn’t really a thing and isn’t looked on favorably. The fact that it’s still like this in present-day, makes it highly unlikely that it would’ve been “okay” nearly 20 years ago. Think of John Ritter’s character from Three’s Company. He had to pretend that he was gay just so he could stay there.

So yeah, Yoshi and Tang Shen having a daughter together, but not married is off and it seems like Tang was considering going with Saki, so that didn’t sit right with me either.

Something else that had me curious was the income thing. What did they do for income while in Japan? I usually just ignored that. The fact that active ninja clans exist in the latter part of the 20th century I already have a suspension of disbelief over and ignore it. lol Ninja and samurai are awesome to write about and use…even if realistically, both were becoming obsolete by the late 19th century, which is why none exist today. Ninja schools still exist, though...maybe the Foot ran one...This is about all I can think of off the top of my head and as you can see, most of these reasons are pretty petty, but the one that bothers me most is the legit reason that I mentioned first…about how the episode felt it was missing parts.

Things I did like, was how they got the Kappa thing right and even pointed out how Kappa like cucumber. That’s what the sushi restaurant, Kappazushi, is based on. I like Tang Shen talking about her background, which explained why her name wasn’t Japanese and stuff. I liked how we found out what actually happened that caused Saki to attack Yoshi and how flawed Yoshi was as well. I still stand by what I said also regarding this series…I do like something about every single episode, even the one I dislike.

PApagreg
12-05-2016, 11:30 PM
As for petty reasons…the appearance of Sky Tree seriously bugged me. It wouldn’t have existed 15, 16 years ago. They were working on it in 2010 and was completed in 2011.

The clans being that close to Tokyo also bothered me as it feels totally off from what the country is actually like geographically. They should’ve been in a rural area, or at least someplace in the mountains or near them. A place like Yamanashi would’ve made a heck of a lot more sense or someplace in Mie or Shizuoka have areas near mountains and stuff and still in Honshu (like Tokyo)? In other words, I don’t know of any places near or from the mountains, where you can have a clear view of Tokyo like that...maybe Mt. Takao, but that could be pushing it. I know Sky Tree is impressive and visible due to its size when far off, but that’s just pushing it, imo. Why didn’t they just have them in Kyoto or Nara or another former Japan capital that have some more traditional aspects to them along with more nature? Tokyo is an urban place.

My problem with the above is similar to how I felt about Disney’s Pochahontas. I hated that movie not only for the historical inaccuracies and the convoluted John Smith x Pochahantos nonsense since they aged her up, but it just had me scratching my head thinking, “Have these people ever been to Virginia?”

The whole relationship between Tang Shen and Yoshi was also highly ambiguous. Saki wanted her to choose him. She already had a kid. Yoshi and Tang Shen didn’t even seem like they were married and stuff. This is Japan. This country is pretty conservative. It looks bad to be an unwed mother. There are even landlords that refuse renting to a couple consisting of a man and a woman, unless they’re married. Mixed genders sharing a living space (unless it’s a sharehouse) isn’t really a thing and isn’t looked on favorably. The fact that it’s still like this in present-day, makes it highly unlikely that it would’ve been “okay” nearly 20 years ago. Think of John Ritter’s character from Three’s Company. He had to pretend that he was gay just so he could stay there.

So yeah, Yoshi and Tang Shen having a daughter together, but not married is off and it seems like Tang was considering going with Saki, so that didn’t sit right with me either.

Something else that had me curious was the income thing. What did they do for income while in Japan? I usually just ignored that. The fact that active ninja clans exist in the latter part of the 20th century I already have a suspension of disbelief over and ignore it. lol Ninja and samurai are awesome to write about and use…even if realistically, both were becoming obsolete by the late 19th century, which is why none exist today. Ninja schools still exist, though...maybe the Foot ran one...This is about all I can think of off the top of my head and as you can see, most of these reasons are pretty petty, but the one that bothers me most is the legit reason that I mentioned first…about how the episode felt it was missing parts.


Well keep in mind they were basically mercenaries so Japanese values aren't really that important to them also they probably pulled a few strings. As for the income I always saw The Foot making money in smuggling, assassination, bounty hunting, body guarding, protection racket, and bodyguarding, you know sort of like Yakuza so I can see The Foot having some income.

TMNTInsighter
12-06-2016, 06:21 AM
All right, it's a good case and I understand the inconsistencies and how that'd keep someone from really liking TotY if that's what's on their mind. I've also noticed via a friend that they seemingly skipped over Saki finding out about his true heritage so I get that. To me though, I'm more of a quality kind of guy rather than how factual something is so almost none of it matters and whatever shortcomings there are (like the one I just mentioned) have to be provided with enough quality material to overcome them and that's the case with TotY here.

I felt it was absolutely important to visit these events if only to see the past versions of Yoshi, Saki, and Shen--not to mention the tragic, almost Shakespearian way it played out. KMR just absolutely knocks it out of the park as Oroku Saki and, given the context of Shredder's storyline in the present time, almost gives him a BTAS Jervis Tetch kind of vibe albeit w/o the sympathy. He portrayed so many different feelings almost effortlessly which is quite a contrast to the material he's given as the present day Shredder. Tang Shen, whom this series is finally giving the respect she deserves as a character--even though the poor girl's still Uncle Ben (especially since Minae's coming back only to voice Alopex), was also well written and portrayed by Minae Noji (I think it's very underrated how courageous it was for her to go into that building to try and stop Saki & Yoshi's duel). Other moments up to and including Leo getting to hold Miwa after all he's been through was more important than others give it credit for and how the turtles made themselves out as Yokai later on was excellently handled as well. It goes to show that there are enough rich and authentic details to compensate for any of its shortcomings.

It doesn't have to be one of your favorites but to me, I'd go so far as to put "Tale of the Yokai" in the top 5 of the best episodes in this whole series.

Vegita-San
12-06-2016, 07:43 AM
:o ?????????????????

that's one of the only episodes that i do like re watching.

My only problems with it -

Seeing Yoshi as an Out Right condescending Jerk was a shock. it gave validity to saki's cause.

The fact that Yoshi wasn't married to Tang Shen AND had a child didn't sit right with me. you could still be devoted to the clan and have time for marriage. unless the clan didn't approve of the relationship, but that was never brought up.

The whole episode just made me not feel sorry for yoshi's cause... and made the story seem one sided on yoshi's part.

but i still enjoyed it.

TMNTInsighter
12-06-2016, 09:22 AM
Vegita, Yoshi was not a perfect guy and he made mistakes, he even said so himself back in "Turtle Temper" and it was alluded to in episodes such as "Vengeance is Mine." It was important that "Tale of the Yokai" remember that and they did. Both Yoshi and Shen also had good points on whether to stay for honor and tradition (Yoshi) or leave for the good of those you care for (Shen) that it was hard to take a side so they did a good job of that too in my eyes.
This was also their chance to give Saki at least one episodes worth of sympathy and provide at least some sort of justification for his warped psychology as the Shredder and (at least for the most part) they did that too.

FredWolfLeonardo
12-06-2016, 11:08 AM
I might be wrong about this since I haven't seen the episode in like a year, but weren't Yoshi and Shen married in the episode?

ssjup81
12-06-2016, 09:15 PM
Well keep in mind they were basically mercenaries so Japanese values aren't really that important to them also they probably pulled a few strings. As for the income I always saw The Foot making money in smuggling, assassination, bounty hunting, body guarding, protection racket, and bodyguarding, you know sort of like Yakuza so I can see The Foot having some income.Now that would be interesting…or maybe they worked with the police in secret. Oh man, goofy scenario just popped into mind. lolPolice detective: *Goes to some isolated place in the woods and looks around* Hey, are you there?

Ninja: *Jumps down from a tree* Hello there Meitantei Hansom

Hansom: How do you know my name? This is our first meeting and I didn’t contact you directly. I didn’t sign the note I left.

Ninja; My clan has been keeping an eye on you and deduced that the one to meet here would be you. *Gives him his full information surprising the detective* So, what is it that you want?

Hansom: What do I call you?

Ninja: Hamato, that’s all you need to know. Why do you seek our help?

Hansom: *Tosses him a photo* I need this guy brought in, but I can’t touch him due to a lot of bureaucratic red tape and lack of evidence. I need you to infiltrate his premises and companies to find something on him. You can go where I can’t.

Hamato: What’d he do?

Hansom: What hasn’t he done? He’s a terrible businessman with ties to the Japanese mafia, to my knowledge. He also seems to have even assaulted young women. We need some really good incriminating evidence to use against him. His high-paid lawyers keep finding loopholes and the police are purposely avoiding the subject, but I refuse to let him continue his bad ways.

Hamato: Fine. Did you bring the fee? *Hansom tosses him some bills* It all seems to be here. We accept your offer and case. Find information to bring this despicable human down.

Hansom: *Looks into his pocket for something* Oh, by the way….*Notices that he’s talking to himself* Huh? Where’d he go?

Hamato: *Unseen* We’ll make contact.

Hansom: *Walks away* :-PAll right, it's a good case and I understand the inconsistencies and how that'd keep someone from really liking TotY if that's what's on their mind. I've also noticed via a friend that they seemingly skipped over Saki finding out about his true heritage so I get that. To me though, I'm more of a quality kind of guy rather than how factual something is so almost none of it matters and whatever shortcomings there are (like the one I just mentioned) have to be provided with enough quality material to overcome them and that's the case with TotY here.Well, like I said before, my noticing inconsistencies was just my being nitpick and petty (and I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed the Japan-based ones if I hadn't have lived here for nearly five years). The only thing that mostly made me dislike this episode, a real complaint, was the incomplete feel that the episode left me with. This is a situation where the episode could have seriously benefited from having maybe a 40-minute runtime, imo, to put in everything that felt like it was left out.I felt it was absolutely important to visit these events if only to see the past versions of Yoshi, Saki, and Shen--not to mention the tragic, almost Shakespearian way it played out. KMR just absolutely knocks it out of the park as Oroku Saki and, given the context of Shredder's storyline in the present time, almost gives him a BTAS Jervis Tetch kind of vibe albeit w/o the sympathy. He portrayed so many different feelings almost effortlessly which is quite a contrast to the material he's given as the present day Shredder. Tang Shen, whom this series is finally giving the respect she deserves as a character--even though the poor girl's still Uncle Ben (especially since Minae's coming back only to voice Alopex), was also well written and portrayed by Minae Noji (I think it's very underrated how courageous it was for her to go into that building to try and stop Saki & Yoshi's duel). Other moments up to and including Leo getting to hold Miwa after all he's been through was more important than others give it credit for and how the turtles made themselves out as Yokai later on was excellently handled as well. It goes to show that there are enough rich and authentic details to compensate for any of its shortcomings.I agree with all of this. The things you mentioned, were the good points of it.It doesn't have to be one of your favorites but to me, I'd go so far as to put "Tale of the Yokai" in the top 5 of the best episodes in this whole series.I actually can’t pick a top 5. Too many series. I can maybe pick a top 5 per season, not for the entire series.The fact that Yoshi wasn't married to Tang Shen AND had a child didn't sit right with me. you could still be devoted to the clan and have time for marriage. unless the clan didn't approve of the relationship, but that was never brought up.

The whole episode just made me not feel sorry for yoshi's cause... and made the story seem one sided on yoshi's part.This was pretty much established from the get-go that Yoshi was flawed. He said as much sometime back in season 1 about his anger and stuff like that. Personally, I felt that this was one of the best points of this episode. It showed that he wasn’t perfect. It’s like Dumbledore from the Harry Potter series. The seventh book, Deathly Hallows, showed that Dumbledore wasn’t a perfect character and that, like any human have flaws and regrets from their pasts.

As we grow older, we mature. A 25-year-old isn’t going to act the same as his 15-year-old self. Same with someone who’s like 40. I doubt that person will act the same as he/she did when 20. Stuff like that, so it’s surprising that you would expect young Yoshi to be wise and more mellow like older Yoshi.I might be wrong about this since I haven't seen the episode in like a year, but weren't Yoshi and Shen married in the episode?It wasn’t really stated and was a bit ambiguous if they were or not. Tang Shen had a kid, but Saki was still trying to get her to get with him. Tang was considering it, which, to me, means no real commitment, imo.

victory_angel
12-06-2016, 11:19 PM
All right, it's a good case and I understand the inconsistencies and how that'd keep someone from really liking TotY if that's what's on their mind. I've also noticed via a friend that they seemingly skipped over Saki finding out about his true heritage so I get that. To me though, I'm more of a quality kind of guy rather than how factual something is so almost none of it matters and whatever shortcomings there are (like the one I just mentioned) have to be provided with enough quality material to overcome them and that's the case with TotY here.


They had a throwaway plot mentioning that Hamato Yuta was ill and it was sort of implied he was dying. It's possible there was a scene where Oroku Saki was told the truth about his past, that he wasn't really part of the Hamato Clan but was a foundling from the Foot Clan and raised as their own. Simply so an Old Man can pass to face the eternal judgment in the underworld in peace.

And then Oroku taking offense of this and storms out of the room and have it implied that he murdered his adoptive father in a rage. Because even though he was raised with kindness, he sees it as being raised by his families murderers.

But this scene was more than likely cut for time or because it was too dark.

Splinter does refer to Tang Shen as his wife, so it's plausible they were married. Though some of the dialogue between Saki and Tang Shen was somewhat suggestive.

For example, there is a point where Saki says "Tang Shen, please take me back. I am not the man you once knew."

This phrase alone implies that Tang Shen and Saki did have a history. But the relationship was toxic because statements such as 'I've changed, I'm not the man you knew, " are cliche excuses used by domestic abusers to con their victims back under their control.

Still the fact that Tang Shen was married and Saki was dogging her to return to him. It's possible the producers were just attempting to have the drama between them regardless of the logistics of the situation. I mean I haven't read this in the IDW as of yet, but i have heard that when Hamato Yoshi was married to Tang Shen, Oroku Saki would help himself to her or at the very least make passes at her from time to time.

Vegita-San
12-07-2016, 07:31 PM
I got up to episode 20 pretty quickly.

Season one really DOES feel like a totally different series. Action packed, fun and funny. and it remembers things.

I do think, along with Tale of the Yokai, Baxters Gambit is probably one of my favorite episodes of the series. even though i still think they retconed baxter from tech support to scientist later on.

CyberCubed
12-07-2016, 07:45 PM
I got up to episode 20 pretty quickly.

Season one really DOES feel like a totally different series. Action packed, fun and funny. and it remembers things.


There's no difference between Season 1 and the rest of the show at all.

THGhost
12-08-2016, 05:43 AM
There's no difference between Season 1 and the rest of the show at all.

Y'know, despite the villain-of-the-week characters who have completely vanished. :lol: Sure we see them from time to time, but it's been a while now (since the underground street racing episode if I recall) and they're nowhere near as present as they used to be.

PApagreg
12-08-2016, 10:19 AM
Now that would be interesting…or maybe they worked with the police in secret. Oh man, goofy scenario just popped into mind. lolPolice detective: *Goes to some isolated place in the woods and looks around* Hey, are you there?

Ninja: *Jumps down from a tree* Hello there Meitantei Hansom

Hansom: How do you know my name? This is our first meeting and I didn’t contact you directly. I didn’t sign the note I left.

Ninja; My clan has been keeping an eye on you and deduced that the one to meet here would be you. *Gives him his full information surprising the detective* So, what is it that you want?

Hansom: What do I call you?

Ninja: Hamato, that’s all you need to know. Why do you seek our help?

Hansom: *Tosses him a photo* I need this guy brought in, but I can’t touch him due to a lot of bureaucratic red tape and lack of evidence. I need you to infiltrate his premises and companies to find something on him. You can go where I can’t.

Hamato: What’d he do?

Hansom: What hasn’t he done? He’s a terrible businessman with ties to the Japanese mafia, to my knowledge. He also seems to have even assaulted young women. We need some really good incriminating evidence to use against him. His high-paid lawyers keep finding loopholes and the police are purposely avoiding the subject, but I refuse to let him continue his bad ways.

Hamato: Fine. Did you bring the fee? *Hansom tosses him some bills* It all seems to be here. We accept your offer and case. Find information to bring this despicable human down.

Hansom: *Looks into his pocket for something* Oh, by the way….*Notices that he’s talking to himself* Huh? Where’d he go?

Hamato: *Unseen* We’ll make contact.

Hansom: *Walks away*

Great scenario but I would change the guy's name to something more Japanese like Yoshihiro or Hirohiko

Vegita-San
12-08-2016, 12:19 PM
Y'know, despite the villain-of-the-week characters who have completely vanished. :lol: Sure we see them from time to time, but it's been a while now (since the underground street racing episode if I recall) and they're nowhere near as present as they used to be.

I think some people on here work for the show ;o)...

Don't forget former MAIN villains who have completely vanished. Fish Face finally appeared again recently and he wasn't important enough to have even one line anymore.

CyberCubed
12-08-2016, 12:25 PM
Don't forget former MAIN villains who have completely vanished. Fish Face finally appeared again recently and he wasn't important enough to have even one line anymore.

LOL, why the hell are you saying things that are blatantly wrong and everyone can see it?

Fishface "finally" appeared again? He's been in the vast majority of episodes Shredder's henchmen appear in. Fishface has appearances all throughout Seasons 2, 3 and 4 during the Shredder related episodes. You literally have no clue what you're talking about.

ssjup81
12-08-2016, 02:04 PM
Great scenario but I would change the guy's name to something more Japanese like Yoshihiro or HirohikoActually, the name I used was the name of a character from a Japanese game who was a detective.:P

Aaronardo
12-08-2016, 03:25 PM
There's no difference between Season 1 and the rest of the show at all.

Please, you're embarrassing yourself. Season 1 had competent writing. The vast majority of Seasons 3 & 4 do not.

LOL, why the hell are you saying things that are blatantly wrong and everyone can see it?

Fishface "finally" appeared again? He's been in the vast majority of episodes Shredder's henchmen appear in. Fishface has appearances all throughout Seasons 2, 3 and 4 during the Shredder related episodes. You literally have no clue what you're talking about.

I think Antonio Banderas has said, what, two lines? Maybe three? In the last 20 or so episodes. That's because you're blatantly wrong and everyone can see it. He never shows up anymore.

The focus for the henchmen is always on Tiger Claw, frequently on Bebop & Rocksteady, and sometimes on Rahzar or Baxter. But Fishface gets about one episode per season now where he isn't just a background character, and he's only even a background character five episodes per season.

CyberCubed
12-08-2016, 03:32 PM
Please, you're embarrassing yourself. Season 1 had competent writing. The vast majority of Seasons 3 & 4 do not.

I don't notice any different in the writing. The difference is the Turtles, villains, etc. personalities were all brand new in Season 1, whereas now we've seen them for so many episodes.

I think Antonio Banderas has said, what, two lines? Maybe three? In the last 20 or so episodes. That's because you're blatantly wrong and everyone can see it. He never shows up anymore.

We see Fishface in almost every single one of the episodes Shredder's henchmen appear. There are also episodes Rahzar/Tiger Claw don't appear because Bebop/Rocksteady do instead, so what's the difference?

You want to go down through the episode list? Look at every episode from Season 2 onward that focused on Shredder or his henchmen, Fishface is in the bulk of them.

Aaronardo
12-08-2016, 03:59 PM
I don't notice any different in the writing. The difference is the Turtles, villains, etc. personalities were all brand new in Season 1, whereas now we've seen them for so many episodes.

Name 5 legitimately funny jokes that stuck with you from Season 4 off the top of your head. How about 5 emotional moments that were actually earned and felt natural and impacting from Season 4? How about 5 points where you thought "wow, that's so Raph" or "wow, that's so Donnie."

For Season 1, anyone who watched it can name 10 of each off the top of their heads, because the writing was so good everything that needed to be memorable was. They had fun character dynamics: Leo was somewhat nerdy, Mikey was somewhat clumsy but always comes through, Raph actually had a temper, and Donnie was a relatable geek.

Those don't show up anymore. Maybe once or twice on the off episode, but for the most part, they've just kinda blended into one character, and when they're not that, they're their archetypes and nothing greater. So, no, Season 1's writing was drastically different from Season 3 onward. Hell, I like Season 2, but it was still pretty different from the first season.

We see Fishface in almost every single one of the episodes Shredder's henchmen appear. There are also episodes Rahzar/Tiger Claw don't appear because Bebop/Rocksteady do instead, so what's the difference?

You want to go down through the episode list? Look at every episode from Season 2 onward that focused on Shredder or his henchmen, Fishface is in the bulk of them.

Let's do it then, shall we? I'm not counting Season 2 because that was never my point to begin with. He shows up plenty of times in Season 2, but that wasn't 20 episodes ago. I'm mainly focusing on Seasons 3 and 4 here.

Of the last two seasons, Fishface shows up in 9 episodes. 9. Out of 49 episodes. (Those episodes being Vision Quest, Serpent Hunt, The Pig And The Rhino, Casey Jones VS The Underworld, Meet Mondo Gecko, Attack of the Mega-Shredder, City At War, The Super Shredder, and The Power Inside Her).

Of those 9 episodes, he speaks in 4 of them. Only one of those is in Season 4. Otherwise, he has little to no role in the episode. On top of that, remember when Xever was actually an interesting character with a backstory just waiting to be expanded on and a cool dynamic with Raph? Baxter's Gambit remembers. Three seasons ago.

Now, yes, of those 49 episodes, there are plenty that don't even involve Shredder's henchmen. But even when you take said episodes out, that still leaves 21 episodes. 9 where Fishface appears at all, and 4 where he actually speaks. The facts speak for themselves.

CyberCubed
12-08-2016, 04:08 PM
Name 5 legitimately funny jokes that stuck with you from Season 4 off the top of your head. How about 5 emotional moments that were actually earned and felt natural and impacting from Season 4? How about 5 points where you thought "wow, that's so Raph" or "wow, that's so Donnie."

1. I laughed in the Wyrm episode

2. Michaelangelo telling Rocksteady, "Your mother wears combat boots" and Rocksteady replying, "Mother DOES wear the combat boots!" was hilarious, especially with Rocksteady's accent

3. I remember a lot of Fugitoid's antics being funny, its been a while since I've seen the episodes but Fugitoid did have some funny lines in the various space arc eps.

4. Don getting the huge pimples (?) on his face in one of the space episodes was pretty funny. Pretty sure it was when he was stung in one of the Dregg episodes.

5. The crossover episode with the 80's Turtles had some hilarious banter, also loved Krang interacting with Kraang subprime.


As for emotional episodes, I got that from the Turtles looking at Splinter in the crossover episode but having to go on knowing he was "dead" at the time. I got it from when they reunited with him. I got it from Raphael and Mike hugging in the space arc. Leo almost getting himself killed when he went ballistic and Raphael risking his life to save him.


Of those 9 episodes, he speaks in 4 of them. Only one of those is in Season 4. Otherwise, he has little to no role in the episode. On top of that, remember when Xever was actually an interesting character with a backstory just waiting to be expanded on and a cool dynamic with Raph? Baxter's Gambit remembers. Three seasons ago.

Now, yes, of those 49 episodes, there are plenty that don't even involve Shredder's henchmen. But even when you take said episodes out, that still leaves 21 episodes. 9 where Fishface appears at all, and 4 where he actually speaks. The facts speak for themselves.

As said, you can't count episodes that don't focus on Shredder, so its not 49 episodes because those aren't Shredder henchmen eps. Plus they were in space or Northampton or focused on other villains. So there's 21 episodes, he appeared in roughly half of them, and he gets a few lines in each.

Fishface hasn't gotten much focus since the Mondo Gecko episode, but then again we haven't gotten any major focus on Rahzar either, so its not much of a difference.

ssjup81
12-08-2016, 04:32 PM
Name 5 legitimately funny jokes that stuck with you from Season 4 off the top of your head. How about 5 emotional moments that were actually earned and felt natural and impacting from Season 4? How about 5 points where you thought "wow, that's so Raph" or "wow, that's so Donnie."

For Season 1, anyone who watched it can name 10 of each off the top of their heads, because the writing was so good everything that needed to be memorable was. They had fun character dynamics: Leo was somewhat nerdy, Mikey was somewhat clumsy but always comes through, Raph actually had a temper, and Donnie was a relatable geek.

Those don't show up anymore. Maybe once or twice on the off episode, but for the most part, they've just kinda blended into one character, and when they're not that, they're their archetypes and nothing greater. So, no, Season 1's writing was drastically different from Season 3 onward. Hell, I like Season 2, but it was still pretty different from the first season.



Let's do it then, shall we? I'm not counting Season 2 because that was never my point to begin with. He shows up plenty of times in Season 2, but that wasn't 20 episodes ago. I'm mainly focusing on Seasons 3 and 4 here.

Of the last two seasons, Fishface shows up in 9 episodes. 9. Out of 49 episodes. (Those episodes being Vision Quest, Serpent Hunt, The Pig And The Rhino, Casey Jones VS The Underworld, Meet Mondo Gecko, Attack of the Mega-Shredder, City At War, The Super Shredder, and The Power Inside Her).

Of those 9 episodes, he speaks in 4 of them. Only one of those is in Season 4. Otherwise, he has little to no role in the episode. On top of that, remember when Xever was actually an interesting character with a backstory just waiting to be expanded on and a cool dynamic with Raph? Baxter's Gambit remembers. Three seasons ago.

Now, yes, of those 49 episodes, there are plenty that don't even involve Shredder's henchmen. But even when you take said episodes out, that still leaves 21 episodes. 9 where Fishface appears at all, and 4 where he actually speaks. The facts speak for themselves.Isn't humor subjective? That aside, I can't name 10 jokes from season 1 off the top of my head...

The main joke that has stayed with me is Raph's, "That thing is about as useless as a trench coat on a turtle" quip from season 2...but that's not really a joke. Either way, I loved the reference.

Vegita-San
12-08-2016, 05:30 PM
Yep, fishface is long since forgotten Pigeon Pete was so useless they wrote him out of the show. mondo gecko only exists cause they got robbie rist in for a character....

Season 2 was where i noticed things getting worse and more boring.
Season 3 compounded it and by then i was loosing interest.

So, I got through all of season one again for the most part.
20 astounding episodes.

The good -
Rise of the Turtles
- Turtle Temper
- new Friend Old Enemy
-Metalhead
-Never Say Xever
-The Gauntlet
- Panic in the SEwers
- Mousers ATtack
-It came from the depths
- New Girl in Town
-Alien Agenda
-TCRI
-Baxters Gambit
-Enemy of my Enemy
-KArai's Vendetta
- Operation Break in.

The OK.
Cockroach Terminator.
Pulverizer Returns (cut out Pulverizer, the rest of the ep is OK)
Monkey Brains (really weird, not one i'd rewtch often. but ok for one viewing)

The Horrible
I Monster (turning the rat king into another creepy monster design. ugh)
Shell Raiser (Again, cut out the useless pulverizer, it could have been ok).

didn't get to parasitica or showdown yet.
But i remember wishing show down had more sense of setup dread for a technodrome appearance. and i wish the technodrome had an actual design on the inside. laziest design ever.

For the Rat King, I hated what they did with him in 4kids, making him some kind of weird cyborg. and i hated what they did with him here. I kind of like the FW version. I always figured, since he had mutagen in his lair, he was somehow a rat who turned human (maybe being near splinter)...and used his knowledge of rats to control them later. he's neither all friend, or all foe..and is a complete 100% anomaly. makes him fun.

When you take away his humanity, he becomes an incredibly boring and dull screaming character, or creeper.

CyberCubed
12-08-2016, 05:36 PM
Yep, fishface is long since forgotten Pigeon Pete was so useless they wrote him out of the show.

We just flat out said he's in 9 of the episodes Shredder's henchmen appear for. What the hell do you mean by "forgotten?" You almost sound like you're trolling.

Pigeon Pete is comic relief. He's exactly the same in the IDW comics. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Season 2 was where i noticed things getting worse and more boring.
Season 3 compounded it and by then i was loosing interest.

Season 2 was great, and Season 3 picked up after the Northampton arc.

The Horrible
I Monster (turning the rat king into another creepy monster design. ugh)

How can you say something like this and be taken seriously? Rat King's episode was fantastic. His redesign in this show is also great.

TMNTInsighter
12-09-2016, 08:11 AM
Cyber, for the love of God, stop embarrassing yourself with the petty (at best) defenses and just admit that you don't know what you're talking about! Vegita (other than Rat King's design which reminds me a lot of that Scarecrow design I love so much--who was also voiced by JC), THGhost, Aaronardo, and ssjup81 are all right and you're not!

Vegita-San
12-09-2016, 08:14 AM
Cyber, for the love of God, stop embarrassing yourself with the petty (at best) defenses and just admit that you don't know what you're talking about! Vegita (other than Rat King's design which reminds me a lot of that Scarecrow design I love so much--who was also voiced by JC), THGhost, Aaronardo, and ssjup81 are all right and you're not!

at this point it's just easier to add him to the ignore list. eventually he'll get tired of talking to himself.

I can see why some people like this iteration of the rat king, but to me, the only good thing about him was the voice.

TMNTInsighter
12-09-2016, 08:29 AM
No kidding! Like I've said before, Jeffrey Combs is definitely under appreciated in Hollywood and he's a fantastic VA! One of the best in the business I'd say. I think Hasbro and all the other Transformers entities should make him the permanent voice of Ratchet for the franchise. You should definitely see him perform as Scarecrow in the episode "Never Fear".

CyberCubed
12-09-2016, 11:39 AM
Cyber, for the love of God, stop embarrassing yourself with the petty (at best) defenses and just admit that you don't know what you're talking about! Vegita (other than Rat King's design which reminds me a lot of that Scarecrow design I love so much--who was also voiced by JC), THGhost, Aaronardo, and ssjup81 are all right and you're not!

I'm flat out saying why I like the show. What are you saying, "You are not right?" I'm also correcting him when he says characters are forgotten.

Vegita-san has been trolling every thread in this forum whining about the show. Granted now that he's been rewatching the show he may change his opinion.

And as said, him whining about Rat King having a horrible design is bizarre, its one of the most well liked designs of the show.

Vegita-San
12-09-2016, 12:05 PM
LOL. Drink one if someone has a problem with what i say.

Drink Two if he calls me a troll simply for not agreeing with him.

Drink Three if he mentions nostrils.

Drink four...Dead from alchohol poisoning at this point

probably make cyber happy though....
I better get on it asap so he doesn't have to be insulted at my posts.

CyberCubed
12-09-2016, 12:29 PM
If you have legitimate criticisms of the show that's fine, so continue your rewatch. I want to hear what you think of Season 2.

Metalwolf
12-09-2016, 12:47 PM
I'm flat out saying why I like the show. What are you saying, "You are not right?" I'm also correcting him when he says characters are forgotten.

Vegita-san has been trolling every thread in this forum whining about the show. Granted now that he's been rewatching the show he may change his opinion.

And as said, him whining about Rat King having a horrible design is bizarre, its one of the most well liked designs of the show.No, but it gets annoying when somebody voices a valid criticism about the show and it's like you're trying to tell them their growing discontent is all in their head, and that they're just imagining things.

Fact is, if people didn't think the show was worth saving, they wouldn't be saying anything about it, they'd just not bother. Long hiatuses, deterioratating characterization, plot amnesia, and growing lack of compelling villains does not make a good show.

Thing is, this show has been slowly going downhill ever since Season 1. It's not hating TMNT or being a 'disloyal fan,' it's a fact. Ratings have been dropping for a while now and Season 5 is extremely likely to be the last.

I like this show, it had potential. But not as it's being run currently. Maybe it might be like the OT and get a glorious resurrection in IDW, but right now it's dying, and it helps nothing to bury one's head in the sand and pretend everything's hunky dory when it's not.

You got to get that eventually, Cubed.

Vicky82
12-09-2016, 12:52 PM
I always rewatch all the seasons, I do it every time we are on a hiatus.

I do skip some episodes though, Turtle Temper, Cockroach Terminator, The Kraang Conspiracy, Pizza Face, Plan 10, A Foot Too Big, that's. so far at the moment.

CyberCubed
12-09-2016, 12:52 PM
Ratings declining has nothing to do with content, all shows decline rapidly in ratings as they progress.

ssjup81
12-09-2016, 01:47 PM
I always rewatch all the seasons, I do it every time we are on a hiatus.

I do skip some episodes though, Turtle Temper, Cockroach Terminator, The Kraang Conspiracy, Pizza Face, Plan 10, A Foot Too Big, that's. so far at the moment.I feel that the best thing about A Foot Too Big is the Finger. One thing I love about this series are the throwbacks. Loved the WWF throwbacks used for the episode. Still wish Roddy Piper could've voiced the Finger...RIP, I really miss the insane Piper...and he is the reason why Wrestlemania 6 is still my fav Wrestlemania...

THGhost
12-09-2016, 04:12 PM
I think Vegita-San meant that Fishface's role as a villain has been greatly reduced, which is certainly true.

ToTheNines
12-09-2016, 05:00 PM
Drink four...Dead from alchohol poisoning at this point


Lightweight.

Vegita-San
12-10-2016, 08:08 AM
Not if you do it 5 times an hour after reading a few posts...

PApagreg
12-14-2016, 10:28 AM
Also when was the last time the turtles used archery in combat, that was a cool skill they showed in the series.

Vegita-San
12-14-2016, 04:35 PM
4 kids in at least two episodes.. only one was combat though :)